Metro Atlanta needs tools to rethink itself
Unemployment in metro Atlanta fell by almost a full point between February 2011 and February 2012, declining from 9.9 to 9 percent. In more human terms, more than 60,000 of our friends, neighbors and relatives are now back to work.
That’s a welcome sign of progress, as was Thursday’s announcement of 1,500 jobs coming to a new medical-products plant to be built near Social Circle. After a difficult lag, metro Atlanta finally appears to be benefiting from the nation’s slow, awkward recovery, even if we still have a long way to go.
In fact, Atlanta has a lot farther to travel than many metro regions that we might think of as competitors. Almost every region got hit hard by the recession; as an economy highly dependent on home construction, Atlanta got hit worse than most. But if you look closely, this region’s economy had begun to stumble and falter long before the recession hit. The housing bubble merely made those problems harder to recognize.
Through the ’90s, for example, per capita income in metro Atlanta was increasing fast, more quickly than in most other metro areas. That was a sign of a vibrant regional economy attracting and creating wealth.
But around the turn of the century, that increase simply stopped. While per capita income continued to grow elsewhere, it simply flat-lined in metro Atlanta, and when the recession hit that number collapsed. In fact, when you look at what per capita income has done in the last 20 years, the performance of the 28-county metro Atlanta area closely mirrors that of metro Detroit.
The Brookings Institution, a Washington-based think tank, recently released its assessment of the economic performance of the top 200 metro areas in the world from 2010 to 2011. Metro Atlanta ranked 189th of 200, behind New Orleans, Memphis, Birmingham and other U.S. cities, and well behind Detroit. We even ranked one notch below Cairo, Egypt.
Those numbers suggest that merely riding the crest of a slowly improving national economy will not be enough for metro Atlanta. They also demonstrate the foolishness of trying to recreate the prosperity of a past that wasn’t as prosperous as we thought.
That prosperity had been driven by Atlanta’s success in reproducing the auto-centric, sprawling, decentralized development pattern that had characterized American cities for the prior half century. And while those auto-dependent suburbs will continue to be a great place to live and raise families for many, economic indicators, growth markers, investment patterns and social trends all tell us that’s not how future growth will occur.
A new survey by the National Association of Realtors, for example, found that “nearly six in ten adults would prefer to live in a neighborhood with a mix of houses and stores and other businesses within an easy walk” than in a more auto-dependent suburb. Even more telling, young people are not as enthralled with the automobile as their parents and grandparents had been. In 1983, 69 percent of American 17-year-olds had a driver’s license. By 2008, that had dropped to 50 percent, and I bet it has fallen still further since then.
The country is changing. The market is changing. And while a number of business and civic leaders in the metro Atlanta region understand that reality, I don’t believe that our political leaders at the state level, particularly at the Legislature, fully grasp the necessity of reinventing ourselves and reinvesting in ourselves, and of giving us the transit, planning and governance tools to make those changes.
– Jay Bookman
Source: Brookings Institution
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349 comments Add your comment
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
9:59 am
“rightwing troll, why are companies like Baxter and Caterpiller moving from a dem run state, Obo’s IL into a state run by strupid repubs If dems were so much smarter wouldn’t companies be moving to dem states from repub states ?”
This might be just a bit hard for you to grasp…but there are other reasons beside politics for a company to choose where to locate. And Caterpiller is not LEAVING IL, they are ALSO coming to GA.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
April 23rd, 2012
9:59 am
The cause for unemployment is simple: employers need people with technical skills.
Well, I always thought the cause for unemployment was people are out of jobs. And the reason why they’re out of jobs is, they’re just too lazy or proud to work. There’s plenty of jobs out there but people won’t take them. Just the other day I had to wait five minutes in the Burger King drive-thru because there wasn’t enough workers in there to handle the traffic. And there was a big Help Wanted sign right out front. We need these fancy-smancy laid off mgrs. to get off their duff and go to work at places like that. I hear some of the jobs pay over 8 bucks a hour. Our problem is, there’s too many people that would rather lay around watching Days of Our Lives and waiting for the dole than put in a honest day’s work.
That’s my opinion and it’s very true. If we just sent these librul yankees that expect big pay back up north most of the problems in metro Atlanta would be gone. I just can’t hardly wait till we get a Conservative Republican White House and Congress and we can get back to the good old days of the 1940s. You never heard all this whining way back then. Have a good Monday everybody. And I don’t mean to whine or nothing, but it’s colder than a well digger’s butt in Alaska out here this a.m.
stands for decibels
April 23rd, 2012
9:59 am
The shift is now towards a small town atmosphere in a large city. The burbs are becoming a thing of the past.
Not to nitpick, but “suburbs” WERE small towns, aka “bedroom communities”, not so long ago. You lived there, went to school, shopped, etc., but (generally one working parent) commuted to a larger city every day, perhaps via train or bus.
Nowadays that model can still work, particularly with so many who are now able to telecommute most if not all days. I don’t think those kinds of ‘burbs are a thing of the past at all; I think they hit a sweet spot for many, providing some degree of privacy with mostly detached homes but on smaller lots, with sidewalks, shopping, and more of a feeling of community than you get with big homes on bigger lots in a landlocked subdivision hell-and-gone from anything.
carlosgvv
April 23rd, 2012
10:00 am
Atlanta is a crime ridden city filled with street people who constantly harass people for money. I lived in Atlanta many years ago before it reached the ruined state it is in now. I would not live within the city limits of Atlanta unless forced to. So, auto-dependent suburbs will continue, in the Atlanta area, as long as people can afford to live in them, trends not withstanding.
Road Scholar
April 23rd, 2012
10:01 am
Recon: So the $2B budget of GDOT has no bearing? Other than salaries and overhead, most goes to projects planned, designed, constructed, and maintained by the private sector. GDOT has been gutted from 12,500 employees in the 1970’s ( a lot of maintenance and light const done in house) to 6300 in 2005 (actually 5900 filled spaces) to 4300 today! No impact statewide? Really?
godless heathen©
April 23rd, 2012
10:03 am
Road Scholar: “Water used in a septic system is used once…it goes back into the ground, where water used in a sewer system is used about 7 times before being dumped. Not to gross ya’ll out but each time it is used, except during watering your yards, it is treated and reused in the metro areas with sewer/water systems.”
Where do you get this misinformation?
————————————————————–
Of the water reuse categories listed in Table 7-1, only non-potable reuse and indirect potable
reuse are recommended for the Metro Water District at this time. Direct potable reuse is not
currently practiced in the United States, due to a lack of regulatory acceptance, public confidence
with its safety and costs associated with implementing this type of reuse. Therefore, direct
potable reuse is not being actively pursued for the Metro Water District at this time. Beyond
2035, both direct potable reuse and grey water may be considerations. (http://www.northgeorgiawater.com/files/Sec7_Reuse_WSWC_May2009.pdf)
Any reuse of sewage discharge in the N Georgia area is for irrigation, where much of the water is lost to evaporation. Septic tanks return almost all the water to aquifers.
Moderate Line
April 23rd, 2012
10:07 am
Here are some interesting facts to consider. Among the 50 fastest-growing counties from 2010 to 2011, 38 were in the South, with the remaining 12 split equally between the Midwest and West. Texas contained more of these counties than any other state, with 12. Georgia was next, with nine, followed by Virginia (seven), and North Dakota and North Carolina (tied with three apiece).
http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/population/cb12-55.html
If people really perfer these areas they are still not moving to them. The main reason people move to the suburbs is cost.
The Thin Guy
April 23rd, 2012
10:08 am
Is the drop in the number of teenagers with drivers licenses due to a drop in drivers or just teenagers driving without a license? The Great News of the Day is I can vote against Cynthia McKinney without having to move to California, Gaza, or Bangthedesk. If you were a dog would you prefer riding on the top of a car or through the digestive track of an Indonesian? Oh well, time to Wok the Dog.
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
April 23rd, 2012
10:08 am
“I lived in Atlanta many years ago before it reached the ruined state it is in now.”
Good riddance!
liberalefty
April 23rd, 2012
10:12 am
without ATLANTA the metro area would be one big trailer park
USinUK
April 23rd, 2012
10:14 am
JoeCool – 10:08 – haha … I was thinking “and the city center was an incrementally happier place to be without you”
but yours is far pithier
liberalefty
April 23rd, 2012
10:14 am
@thinguy
orientals love dogs…when i was stationed in SOUTH KOREA i didnt see one dog all year.
Talking Head
April 23rd, 2012
10:14 am
“I don’t believe that our political leaders at the state level, particularly at the Legislature, fully grasp the necessity of reinventing ourselves and reinvesting in ourselves, and of giving us the transit, planning and governance tools to make those changes.”
Eliminate the State income tax, tax subsidies.
USinUK
April 23rd, 2012
10:15 am
Liberalefty – heck, without Atlanta, the state would be on par with Mississippi … god knows, Savannah couldn’t carry the state economically
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
April 23rd, 2012
10:16 am
“why don’t we build another airport on the NORTH or NORTHEAST side of Metro Atlanta to alleviate commercial air freight?”
The City of Atlanta purchased 10,000 acres in Dawson County for a Northern airport years ago.
It is really nice place to take a walk in. Thank you Atlanta.
Normal Free, Plain and Simple
April 23rd, 2012
10:17 am
USinUK,
Howdy back….
No, no vacation…had a severe allergic reaction to some medicine I was prescribed. Somehow it affected my kidneys. I’m getting better now.
<– my new Nom De Blog now… heh, heh
Poor Boy from Alabama
April 23rd, 2012
10:18 am
JB,
Metro Atlanta’s economic problems are more a function of the composition of our economy than it is the layout of our neighborhoods. Too many of our jobs are based in industries that are cyclical and subject to the same global economic forces that are hurting the inflation-adjusted wages of many Americans.
Let’s start with our employment base. According to the Atlanta Regional Commission (ARC), the 20 country metro region had about 2.2 million jobs as of 2010. Here are our top ten sectors for jobs:
1. Retail trade – 11.5%
2. Health and Social Assistance – 11.1%
3. Education – 9.9%
4. Food and Accommodation – 9.0%
5. Administrative and Waste Management – 7.3%
6. Professional and Technical – 7.1%
7. Manufacturing – 7.0%
8. Transportation and Warehousing – 6.1%
9. Wholesale Trade – 5.9%
10. Public Administration – 5.1%
According to ARC, high paying jobs tend to be in the following sectors: Finance, Information, Professional and Technical, Wholesale Trade and Management. Low paying jobs tend to be in the following sectors: Retail Trade, Food and Accommodation, Administrative and Waste Management, Education, and Arts and Entertainment.
As you can see, many of our jobs are in low paying industries. Most of those same low paying industries are also cyclical. Once the economy recovers, some of the lost jobs will come back, but wages will still be stagnant because of the composition of our economy. .
While it’s helpful to think about the layouts of our neighborhoods and transportation challenges on a regional basis, those are not the primary reasons our unemployment rate is high and our incomes are stagnant.
Our emphasis should be on making Georgia a great place to invest, do business, and hire workers. That means constantly working to ensure that we have good infrastructure, good schools and a highly skilled workforce, a good regulatory environment and reasonable tax burdens.
Attractive communities are important too, but for many folks with families, that means suburban living. Let’s not try to do a one size fits all approach. Some folks like ITP living while others like OTP living. Live and let live.
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
April 23rd, 2012
10:18 am
liberallefty – “without ATLANTA the metro area would be one big trailer park”
*facepalm*
liberalefty
April 23rd, 2012
10:19 am
the only thing the state republicans are interseted in is stopping women from having abortions, jim crow id laws, enact laWS TO Stop homosexuals from getting married, and stopping and harassing hispanics..
atler8
April 23rd, 2012
10:19 am
Recon,
Regarding your tiresome & repeated denigration of everything associated with the City of Atlanta, and your latest assertion that the city proper is headed in the same direction as Detroit, give me a break!
I live in an area far outside of the perimeter & can tell you that, judging by the foreclosure rates, residential & commercial vacant properties that are in abundance & the high unemployment rates in some of the outer counties, a number of those counties appear to be on track with the city on that same path of Detroit imitiation you mentioned.
USinUK
April 23rd, 2012
10:20 am
“had a severe allergic reaction to some medicine I was prescribed. Somehow it affected my kidneys. ”
holy crap – same thing happened to a friend of mine – he wound up needing a kidney transplant – are you doing okay?? is it functioning normally again??
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
April 23rd, 2012
10:21 am
“heck, without Atlanta, the state would be on par with Mississippi”
Gosh…not even Alabama?
Hate to know we would have been as bad as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7r2i6NrqNs
atler8
April 23rd, 2012
10:21 am
In other news,
You forgot to include the Georgia Legislature in your “tools” bracket. Or should I have written “fools”?
Gator Joe
April 23rd, 2012
10:23 am
Jay:
For your white, “stuck in the 60’s” crowd (the 1860’s that is), as long as their bigotry, narrow-mindedness and ignorance continues, Georgia will continue to lag behind other parts of the country, including other parts of the South. Metro areas such as Atlanta need cooperation with all, all segments of their citizenry to solve the problems which inhibit prosperity. Issues such as efficient transportation systems, quality public education (all levels), clean air and water to name a few require cooperation.
liberalefty
April 23rd, 2012
10:24 am
the outer suburbs are full of poor republicans who will vote for MITT even though he will try to cut their SSI,MEDICARE,MEDICAID etc..,lol
Common Sense
April 23rd, 2012
10:25 am
“The country is changing. The market is changing.”
Too bad it hasn’t been changing for the better. Change is Coming. November 2012.
killerj
April 23rd, 2012
10:26 am
1 point in unemployment drop?,does this include the ones who ran out of it?,what a joke Jay,you would do a play of word,s to try to make that sly little man look good,let,s go to 2012 elections.
Normal Free, Plain and Simple
April 23rd, 2012
10:26 am
USinUK
April 23rd, 2012
10:20 am
Like I said, I’m getting better. The prognosis is good. All spiritual help will be greatly appreciated…
zeke
April 23rd, 2012
10:26 am
The point about those from the North-Yankees_ or from other areas move to the South for several reasons, warm weather, lots of recreation opportunities, mostly friendly people, and, THE AREAS AND CITIES THEY MOVE FROM ARE FAILURES OR ARE FAILING! Then once they get here they begin to rant and rave about how right things were done where they came from! If they were so right, what the hell are they doing here? And progress, depending on your interpretation and meaning of the word, IS NOT ALWAYS GOOD!
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
April 23rd, 2012
10:28 am
liberalefty
April 23rd, 2012
10:24 am
I find it quite fascinating that they will vote for a man that will literally f em over. Imagine standing in the voting booth casting your vote for the man whos cutting you SSI and wants to give you a voucher….. i cant fathom that.
Brosephus™
April 23rd, 2012
10:29 am
why are companies like Baxter and Caterpiller moving from a dem run state, Obo’s IL into a state run by strupid repubs ?
Seems like nobody eats breakfast anymore. Sometimes, it’s better to be quiet and think this kind of stuff. Not posting it doesn’t expose your ignorance for all to see. Catepillar did NOT move from IL to GA. Catepillar stated they wanted manufacturing closer to North American and European markets than what J-A-P-A-N would offer. In essence, Catepillar moved production from Japan to GA. I don’t recall their being a city or town in Illinois called Japan.
No wonder this state is so effed up. The Legislature is a perfect mirror of it’s non-thinking residents.
liberalefty
April 23rd, 2012
10:29 am
@common sense
this country has changed for the better…remember 9/11 ? this president has kept us safe
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
April 23rd, 2012
10:29 am
I found this article by Jay fascinating because I discussed many of the same issues with several people the other night. In my opinion the outer Counties are in for hard times. The “Quiet Place in the Woods” is no longer so appealing if you have to drive a considerable distance to a job, entertainment or store. Public transportation is almost non-existent in some of these Counties.
Residential real estate within walking distance to a Marta pick-up or public transportation would be a wise investment in my opinion. Add in Retail and you have an even bigger winner.
Doggone/GA
April 23rd, 2012
10:30 am
“And progress, depending on your interpretation and meaning of the word, IS NOT ALWAYS GOOD!”
Nope, PROGRESS is always good…it is the interpretation of CHANGE that depends. Change is not always good, and does not always lead to progress.
Bill Orvis White
April 23rd, 2012
10:31 am
To:
The Honorable Governor Nathan Deal
Dear Governor Deal:
Thank you for expanding the economy in the state of Georgia and for standing up to Washington’s high taxes, draconian regulations and illegal health care scheme.
Amen,
Bill Orvis White
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
10:31 am
ME: Time to stop fighting the Civil War. Time to start focusing on the future.
Jay: This notion that modern ideas are “Yankee” ideas and thus ought to be rejected just by virtue of their origins — that’s a truly self-destructive approach, and reflects a degree of self-loathing as well. Git over it, boys.
ME and Jay–Couldn’t agree with you more. I can only hope that some of these Southern Tribalists will wake up to realize that it’s one big country now and that people are free to live anywhere they like. The Myth of the Genteel Southerner is just that–a Myth. Southerners are no more polite than people from the North. In fact, once you factor in the overt racism and open hostility toward anyone whose family hasn’t lived here for numerous generations, I would say that Southerners come out on
the short end of the Politeness Scale.
Grow up, Rednecks.
liberalefty
April 23rd, 2012
10:32 am
did ya’ll see the crowd NUGENT was talking too? not exactly a mensa convention,lol. theyre gonna vote for a rich guy who said he didnt care about the poor. Dont these guys know MITTENS mean them? Nugent is just a draft dodger whose ole and angryabout life.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
10:33 am
why dont we just quadruple the annual construction budget of MARTA and have the GRTA put public transportation and high speed rail to connect all the METRO counties so we can grow again
USinUK
April 23rd, 2012
10:34 am
“All spiritual help will be greatly appreciated… ”
Normal – I’ll talk to the trees for you
stands for decibels
April 23rd, 2012
10:36 am
I’ll talk to the trees for you
Make sure they’re the right height, though.
Mick
April 23rd, 2012
10:36 am
bruno
Well said, by the man from the “garden state”…
barking frog
April 23rd, 2012
10:36 am
Bruno and Jay
There are many who
would reply to you but
they are too polite,
Bless your hearts.
RB from Gwinnett
April 23rd, 2012
10:36 am
You can call it metro Atlanta all you want to Jay, but until the city, dekalb, and Fulton counties give complete control of MARTA to a regional board, it will not get support from surrounding counties. Make that step first and all of this might have a shot.
Keep on mind there are over 100 counties who could care less about Atlanta traffic and they expect their reps to vote that way.
Mick
April 23rd, 2012
10:37 am
Normal
Sending out some good miami vibes…can you feel it??
liberalefty
April 23rd, 2012
10:38 am
republicans would love atlanta if it wasnt majority black.
godless heathen©
April 23rd, 2012
10:39 am
“I would say that Southerners come out on
the short end of the Politeness Scale.”
Awh go ef yourself.
FrankLeeDarling
April 23rd, 2012
10:39 am
The problem is sprawl,the modern suburb is too far out from the city. The suburb of the past is now a Intown neighborhood .Inman park was considered Atlanta’s first suburb,East Atlanta village built mostly in the forties and fifties is now a increasingly desirable address.
Common Sense
April 23rd, 2012
10:41 am
“this country has changed for the better…remember 9/11 ? this president has kept us safe”
Safe from what? Jobs? Income growth? Food Stamps? Debt?
If there was a republican in the White House, adding 60,000 jobs in Atlanta would have been mocked by Bookman.
What’s that work out to be? Just over 178 jobs per metro county per month? And just how many live in Fulton County alone?
This is the same economic engine that drives Georgia and demands that the transportation tax gets passed?
Frankly, this performance is pathetic.
That it is being touted as success shows just how far we have fallen.
liberalefty
April 23rd, 2012
10:41 am
@franklee
KIRKWOODVis the best neighborhood in ATLANTA…I LOVE STAYING HERE
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
10:42 am
fact
the rude and impolite residents of Metro Atlanta are the transplanted yankees and left coasters that moved here because their failed lefty politics ruined job creations in their democratic states and cities
they are the ones who are rude……..its the polite southerners who have moved farther out into the counties to get away from them
liberalefty
April 23rd, 2012
10:43 am
@COMMONSENSE
IF a persons not working its probaly their fault due to lack of education,skills etc. dont blame the government if you’re not working
Logical Dude
April 23rd, 2012
10:43 am
RB: until the city, dekalb, and Fulton counties give complete control of MARTA to a regional board,
HAHAHAHAHAHa!!!!! It was tried, rejected by the outlying counties several times. If the State wants it, they should TAKE IT and FUND IT. When it was left up to the outlying counties, racism took over because they didn’t want “those people” coming up to their neighborhoods. Only recently has the population in the outer counties realized that actually having transit choices would be a good thing, and the State ignores requests for actual funding.
liberalefty
April 23rd, 2012
10:44 am
@uncle samantha
yeah the kkk is the welcoming committe…real polite bunch
Moderate Line
April 23rd, 2012
10:45 am
Jay seems to miss the point that Atlanta Metro Area is still the 7th fastest growing metro area in the United States. The two fastest growing areas are Dallas and Houston.
Despite Jays rhetoric people are still moving to sprawling areas. The only real way this will change is if gas goes up and the price of cars goes up.
The fact that kids no longer want to drive may be link to them being less socially inclined thus losing the need for transporation. I doubt very seriously it is because they want to walk to the grocery store.
http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/population/cb12-55.html
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
10:45 am
and liberallefty PROVES my point
Mitt Romney
April 23rd, 2012
10:46 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSh7G48_wOI
Soothsayer
April 23rd, 2012
10:47 am
“why dont we just quadruple the annual construction budget of MARTA and have the GRTA put public transportation and high speed rail to connect all the METRO counties so we can grow again”
Because then Those People who don’t have cars can come out to yo’ lilly white neighborhoods and create mayhem.
Normal Free, Plain and Simple
April 23rd, 2012
10:47 am
Mick,
Yeah, feeling it!
If it’s alright with you, I might ask for advice/direction about some condos there. barring fate, I’m going to retire around February next year and the wife wants to go to Florida. Any help would be appreciated.
Logical Dude
April 23rd, 2012
10:47 am
RB, but you are correct that the other 100 counties don’t really care.
The state set up a regional system for funding, but it doesn’t look like MARTA was a part of that, due to STATE restrictions. Until the STATE can fund it, it shouldn’t restrict other MARTA funding.
Either that, or scrap “MARTA”, rename it, and/ or fund it like it should be funded.
It seems many from around the metro counties wouldn’t mind a transit solution as long as it wasn’t named “MARTA”.
liberalefty
April 23rd, 2012
10:47 am
@uncle samantha
i’m a southerner, but my dark skin never seen this southern hospitality u brag about. i have seen klan marches though. why werent this famous hospitality extended to black peple
Normal Free, Plain and Simple
April 23rd, 2012
10:48 am
USinUK,
Talking to trees is what I do too…Thanks!
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
10:48 am
moderate line
thank you for rebutting JAY and ATLER8………. not sure where they think people are moving too
FrankLeeDarling
April 23rd, 2012
10:50 am
Liberalefty. word. ITP for life
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
10:51 am
judging from your grammar, i do believe you are a southerner………
how many african americans have been lynched by the kkk in the past 20 years?
how many african americans have been murdered by african americans in democratically run cities in the past 20 years?
think about the questions and not the answers
Road Scholar
April 23rd, 2012
10:52 am
godless: Ga Tech and the Atlanta Regional Commission.
Mitt Romney
April 23rd, 2012
10:53 am
UNCLE SAMANTAHA@10:51 Who is Trayvon Martin?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH5bB8HUWFs
stands for decibels
April 23rd, 2012
10:53 am
Logical, I don’t care if they invert the “M” and change it to WARTA (White Area Rapid Transit Authority?) if that’s what it takes for GA suburbanites to get over their weird collective angst.
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
10:56 am
Jay: A new survey by the National Association of Realtors, for example, found that “nearly six in ten adults would prefer to live in a neighborhood with a mix of houses and stores and other businesses within an easy walk” than in a more auto-dependent suburb.
Mighty Righty: I don’t understand the point in the graphs if the argument is Detroit is doing better than Atlanta because the graphs clearly dispute that. Atlanta has done better in income and employment since 2000. I guess Jay is trying to make a point but the point escapes me.
Poor Boy: Metro Atlanta’s economic problems are more a function of the composition of our economy than it is the layout of our neighborhoods. Too many of our jobs are based in industries that are cyclical and subject to the same global economic forces that are hurting the inflation-adjusted wages of many Americans.
sfd: I don’t think those kinds of ‘burbs are a thing of the past at all; I think they hit a sweet spot for many, providing some degree of privacy with mostly detached homes but on smaller lots, with sidewalks, shopping, and more of a feeling of community than you get with big homes on bigger lots in a landlocked subdivision hell-and-gone from anything.
Mighty Righty, Poor Boy and sfd–I’m trying my best to understand Jay’s point this morning. From past columns, I know that he thinks everyone should live within the city limits and ride public transportation. And from his survey, apparently he has plenty of company. But, as far as I know, there’s nothing stopping him or anyone else from doing exactly that. Last time I checked, there are thousands and thousands of homes for sale inside the Perimeter.
Where he loses me completely is in his assertion that the future economic growth of Atlanta depends upon a higher population density. Holding up Detroit as some kind of model to follow absolutely floors me when you look at their housing market. Until recently, the city would GIVE you a house if you would just catch up on the delinquent taxes on the property, and in some cases they would actually pay YOU to take over an abandoned property.
http://www.businessinsider.com/abandoned-houses-detroit-2011-2
Mick
April 23rd, 2012
10:56 am
normal
Sure! No problem, I know the whole southeast part of this state like the backe of my hand. I have a couple of properties in central florida, know that area well too. There are some monster deals out there in real estate, it’s a buyers market and will be for at least another couple of years IMHO. Come on down!!!!
MiltonMan
April 23rd, 2012
10:58 am
“As long as this state is ruled by “one” Republican party, we will continue to grow at a slow pace.”
Typical lib “logic” within this state. The slow pace started when none other than Roy Barnes was in charge.
DawgDad
April 23rd, 2012
10:58 am
Jay – where again did they put that bio-plant? Downtown Atlanta??? Your crystal ball is a little hazy.
“arnold” wrote earlier that conservatives cannot adapt to change. HA! In 40+ years since I graduated from high school I’ve changed NUMEROUS times, had my IT technical skills become obsolete several times, survived multiple corporate buyouts and RIFs (both ways, staying put and being swept away), moved to new cities and jobs, experienced Nixon price controls, oil lines, double-digit mortgage rates (thanks to Pres. Carter), Bush I recession, internet and housing bubble bursts. I’ve transformed my career several times, thank you.
Conservatives in my lengthy experience are typically BETTER at adapting to change because we don’t whine and cry and march and stand in lines for handouts, we ADAPT ON OUR OWN. We don’t ask other people to re-invent the future for us – we can take care of that just fine by ourselves.
Obama is over
April 23rd, 2012
10:58 am
The first problem to overcome for Atlanta to start growing again is to stop the divisive partisan hateful rhetoric by the likes of Jamvet and others. Trying to assign blame on others without any constructive ideas to move forward gets really old. Atlanta was once known as the “city too busy to hate” , but that is no longer true for those who blindly follow Washington demagogues. Atlanta needs to transition from a service based economy to a global business center. We used to be a convention town, but as Las Vegas, Chicago, and Orlando built up their infrastructures, it became difficult to compete with sin city and Disney World. What we do have is the world’s busiest airport, the fastest growing port on the East Coast, excellent higher education, pretty darn nice weather, and a pro business atmosphere. I applaud the Mayor for his recent business development trip to China and the State’s success in attracting manufacturing. Much of the State’s success can be attributed to the duty free zone in Savannah and the ability to ship goods overseas very cost effectively. Atlanta can capitalize on this trend by attracting overseas businesses to focus on becoming a global distribution center for goods rather than services. Immigration reform at the Federal level to allow foreign national graduate students to stay in the U.S. is important. These people create jobs and it is a tragedy that GA.. Tech trains some of the best and brightest engineers in the world only to have to send them away due to lack of permanent Visas. One word of caution: the soak the rich mantra will not work in Atlanta any more than it will on the National stage. Property taxes in Buckhead cannot support the entire metropolitan infrastructure. Also, political corruption cannot be tolerated. We cannot afford no bid contracts for Government work on schools, public works, and particularly the airport merely to take care of partisan cronies.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
10:59 am
HEY mitt
trayvon was an african american teenager killed by a hispanic neighborhood watchman
i dont get the point you were trying to make
weetamoe
April 23rd, 2012
10:59 am
Did you write that nifty headline all by your own self?
Common Sense
April 23rd, 2012
10:59 am
“COMMONSENSE
IF a persons not working its probaly their fault due to lack of education,skills etc. dont blame the government if you’re not working”
So you are saying don’t blame the government for the education folks have?
Hmmmm. Have you thought clearly about your conclusion? Because the rest of your party is demanding more dollars for education to fix the very thing they say is causing the problem-education.
liberalefty
April 23rd, 2012
11:01 am
UNCLE SAMANTHA
oh i’m not a southerner because YOU SAY SO? sorry if i dont have some warm fuzzy memory of this lie called SOUTHERN HOSPITALITY
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
April 23rd, 2012
11:01 am
Mick-
What part of Florida are you in? I lived in PB county for 20 years. I also bought properties Central Florida. Bought and Sold 12 properties in Lake County north of Orlando.
Road Scholar
April 23rd, 2012
11:02 am
RB: I believe the plan was for GRTA to manage it…Georgia REGIONAL Transportation Authority. But the yahoos at the Capitol have a plan….oh oh! MARTA wants control…cold day in hell! (Well it is a bit chilly here!)
They BOTH suck
April 23rd, 2012
11:03 am
“Typical lib “logic” within this state. The slow pace started when none other than Roy Barnes was in charge.”
Roy Barnes is a liberal? I know he is Democrat. You do know that they are not always one in the same, correct?
Please list Roy’s political ideology on 10 things or so to back up your assertions.
Thanks
Normal Free, Plain and Simple
April 23rd, 2012
11:03 am
Mick
April 23rd, 2012
10:56 am
Thanks,Mick!
I’ll let you know.
Brosephus™
April 23rd, 2012
11:03 am
Grow up, Rednecks.
So much for Northern politeness. Pretty damn hypocritical to call somebody out for not being polite when you kick sh*t in their face at the same time.
Gwinnett County - The Failure to Follow Formal Processes
April 23rd, 2012
11:04 am
What happened can best be summed up as an old-boy network that was the ordinary course of county business. Here, for example, is the grand jury’s conclusion about one of the land deals (p. 29):
The Grand Jury can find no rational, reasonable basis for the acquisition of this property other than to bail out the son of an old friend of several members of the Board of Commissioners.
The grand jury looked closely at five land deals from 2004 to 2009, all of them ostensibly for the purpose of creating parks. None of them have become parks.
http://www.cityethics.org/content/gwinnett-county-ethics-reform-i-failure-follow-formal-processes
liberalefty
April 23rd, 2012
11:04 am
@COMMON SENSE
AND mitt is trying to gut the student loan program to make education costlier
JamVet
April 23rd, 2012
11:04 am
The first problem to overcome for Atlanta to start growing again is to stop the divisive partisan hateful rhetoric by the likes of Jamvet and others.
ALL HAIL JAMVET!!
NOBODY MOVES HERE – OR ANYWHERE ELSE – WITHOUT MY PERMISSION!!
(I didn’t bother reading past the first sentence, as the rest is almost assuredly more equally absurd nonsense…)
godless heathen©
April 23rd, 2012
11:05 am
Road Scholar: “godless: Ga Tech and the Atlanta Regional Commission.”
You talking about the sewage issue? Almost all, if not all, the wastewater generated by municipalities in Georgia is either discharged directly into streams or rivers or is land applied through irrigation. The statement, “used 7 times before being dumped” is just not true.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
11:05 am
liberallefty
It is OBVIOUS you are a Southerner. Please rered my post. I said I do believe you are a Southerner based on your use of grammar. And now with your lack of reading comprehension you prove my point.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
11:06 am
and yes i am a product of the Georgia skool system
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
11:06 am
they are the ones who are rude……..its the polite southerners who have moved farther out into the counties to get away from them
Uncle Sam–I can’t dispute any personal, anecdotal evidence you have which “proves” that Southerners are more polite than Northerner, but if you look objectively at Jay’s blog, for example, the ratio of anti-Yankee comments to anti-Southern comments runs about 10:1. It may come as a surprise to you, but there is no deeply embedded dislike toward Southerners among people from the North. In fact, as I have pointed out to josef numerous times, people who grow up in Northern states don’t think of themselves as “Northerners” at all. That regional identity simply doesn’t exist.
The bottom line is that the North-South “rivalry” is pretty much a figment of Southerners imagination. And who really gives a Flying F how many generations a family has lived in an area?? It doesn’t give that family any more right to call the area “home” than someone who moved in last week.
Brosephus™
April 23rd, 2012
11:07 am
dB @ 10:53
I still don’t think that would get it done…
They BOTH suck
April 23rd, 2012
11:11 am
Bro
I was thinking the same exact thing. I have been to rural areas in California, New York, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Utah, Idaho and one could use the same name if they wanted to play the stereotype game……….
It is funny when the term “red neck” is used as some regional pejorative for folks in raised in the south.
Yes we have some to be sure, but if I have only visited at different times in my life and can see the same in several northern states, why can’t the northerners see it as well?
Because they do not want too, that’s why…..
liberalefty
April 23rd, 2012
11:12 am
black college football players have southerners saying “SOUTH GON RISE AGAIN”!…HEHEHEHE…WE GON WHIP THEM YANKEES
Matti
April 23rd, 2012
11:13 am
Rednecks are everywhere! My fave: “If your mother does not remove the Marlboro from her lips before telling the state trooper to kiss her azz, you might be a redneck.” Jeff Foxworthy
They BOTH suck
April 23rd, 2012
11:14 am
“they” meaning folks from the North who call southerners, “red necks”
Bruno
April 23rd, 2012
11:15 am
So much for Northern politeness. Pretty damn hypocritical to call somebody out for not being polite when you kick sh*t in their face at the same time.
Brosephus–From the very first day I moved to the South, I have been treated rudely simply due to my place of birth. In addition to hearing thousands and thousands of anti-Yankee comments/jokes, I’ve been overcharged by mechanics and other workmen once they heard a slightly different accent. In fact, I’ve even been pulled over a few times simply because I had an out of state tag and the police wanted to know what I was doing here.
You’ve claimed that you’ve similarly been profiled in the past due to the color of your skin, and I don’t remember you being especially polite in describing those encounters.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
11:16 am
bruno
i do not dispute your assertation that there is no deeply embedded dislike toward Southerners from the Northerners………. however there are STEROTYPES that Northerners exhibt towards Southerners……………. you know what they are and its a waste of time to try to dispute that
i just find it hilarious the sterotypes and responses used on a blog since no one has to say things face to face
there is no North-South rivalry because all the Northerners are leaving the North due to job opportunites and quality of life improvements
and we both know that a rude people and polite people exist everywhere
Brosephus™
April 23rd, 2012
11:16 am
They BOTH
All one has to do is visit rural Illinois to find out that it’s just not limited to the South. You can’t expect people to set aside their differences and work towards a common goal when you name call using negative names and such. That’s like asking me to help you out all the while using the N word to describe me. You’re not getting sh*t from me if you can’t even respect me as a person.
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
April 23rd, 2012
11:18 am
I have lived in the North for many years and the South for many years. There are good and bad people in both, trying to generalize is not worth the time.
UNCLE SAMANTHA
April 23rd, 2012
11:19 am
what we need is a common enemy to unite us
what did the south park guys use, oh yea………….. CANADA
we need to make them the enemy so we can bond
JamVet
April 23rd, 2012
11:20 am
Huntsman compares GOP to Communist Party of China
“Last night I said, you know if you’re not on script and you get knocked out of an event like that the party’s supposed to be big tent, you’re supposed to bring in all ideas and I said, I thought for a moment about what they do in China if you’re off script. The party, they knock you out,” Huntsman said on MSNBC. “We shouldn’t be doing that here. We should be accommodating all voices.”
*Supposed* to be a big tent. What has gone so horribly wrong wit that concept, GOPers?
Most Americans agree that both major political parties have failed them.
And Jon Hunstman is one of a tiny handful of men with the moral courage to dare even broach the subject. But tragically, his brand of moderate, reasoned and reasonable statesmanship and governance has no place at all in the rabid right wing that controls the Once Grand Old Party.
But good for him, anyway…
Brosephus™
April 23rd, 2012
11:21 am
You’ve claimed that you’ve similarly been profiled in the past due to the color of your skin, and I don’t remember you being especially polite in describing those encounters.
There’s a difference between not being polite in describing a specific encounter versus treating everybody based on the jackassery of a few. I’ve had more than my share of bad encounters based on the color of my skin, but you don’t see me disparaging ALL White people because of the actions of a few. You won’t see me do that either because I know that there are some with common damn sense. From where I sit, you could have made your entire post and not kicked sh*t in people’s faces had you left that last sentence off.
The difference between adolescence and manhood is that a man grows and learns from his bad encounters while a child reacts to them.