Why Wall Street execs want to silence their shareholders

Last year, the Securities and Exchange Commission approved a new “say on pay” policy that allows shareholders to vote on the pay package for a company’s top executives.

You wouldn’t think that would be a particularly controversial measure. For one thing, the vote isn’t even binding; it is advisory only. And shouldn’t shareholders — the people who actually own a company — be allowed to at least voice an opinion about how their own top employees are paid? Surely that is consistent with free-enterprise market principles, right?

Republicans, however, have fought the measure tooth and nail. It was approved by the SEC by a party-line 3-2 vote, with Republican appointees to the panel trying vainly to delay, weaken or kill it. They also fought it in Congress, voting against “say on pay” in party-line votes in 2009, back when Democrats still had enough votes to pass it.

As the Chicago Tribune reported back then:

“Rep. Pete Sessions (R-Texas), in a comment echoed by fellow Republicans, assailed the (say-on-pay) measure as “unprecedented government intervention in the free enterprise system.”

“This bill is an invitation for political meddling at its worst in the private confines of companies that are trying to work hard to create jobs,” complained Rep. Peter J. Roskam (R-Ill.)

I find those complaints hard to fathom. It is government interference to give the owners of a company a voice — a non-binding voice! — in what its executives are paid?

This week, we got a chance to see the rule in action, and also to see why Republicans continue to fight it so hard. Shareholders at Citigroup, one of the 10 largest banks in the world, voted 55-45 percent on Tuesday to object to the pay packages granted to CEO Vikram Pandit, as well as to bonus and compensation packages for other top executives. By one count, Pandit collected as much as $49 million in pay, stock options, retention bonuses and other compensation last year, even though the company’s performance has lagged.

The Citigroup investor rebellion came after the nation’s largest corporate-governance experts, Institutional Shareholder Services and Glass Lewis & Co., both recommended against approval of the pay package on grounds that it was too generous and wasn’t linked to company performance.

Glass Lewis, for example, gave the company’s executive pay plan an “F”, explaining:

“Having repaid its TARP funds in 2010, the Company was not subject to restrictions governing the structure of compensation paid to its highest-paid executives during 2011. In turn, the Company has implemented incentive plans rampant with significant issues that, in our opinion, warrant shareholder attention. It is clear to us that the Company has squandered the opportunity to form well-designed, objective incentive plans at the lifting of TARP restrictions, opting instead for often discretionary awards that may qualify as a misuse of company capital.”

In other words, the executives were paying themselves more than they were worth and more than they had earned. (When Pandit became CEO in December 2007, Citigroup was selling at a little over $300 a share. Yesterday it closed at $35.08 a share.)

It’s going to be interesting to see what happens now. According to ISS, only 2 percent of executive pay packages were rejected by shareholders last year, so the action by Citigroup investors is pretty noteworthy, suggesting it’s an egregious case. On the other hand, because the Tuesday vote was non-binding, Pandit and Citigroup’s board of directors are under no legal obligation to honor it.

In addition, pay packages for other major Wall Street firms are also coming up for shareholder review, and those companies are also probably nervous about a shareholder revolt.

All of this strikes me as a very good thing. This is not government interference in free markets; this is stockholders regaining just the slightest bit of control over their own property. And it is almost inexplicable to me that Republicans view it as a bad thing.

I say “almost inexplicable,” because blind loyalty to the top 0.001 percent is the only explanation I can offer. If you have a better one, please, let’s hear it.

– Jay Bookman

946 comments Add your comment

They BOTH suck

April 19th, 2012
6:43 pm

Oh don’t tell me he is a Republican

From the book of Reagan
Chapter 10
versus 5 thru 10

Was that correct?

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

April 19th, 2012
6:44 pm

“My god’s better than your god.
My god’s better than yours.
My god’s better ‘cuz he eats Ken-L-Ration
My god’s better than yours”
– Thomas Jefferson

Doggone/GA

April 19th, 2012
6:44 pm

“And doggone if you have had 25 dogs in 30 years I am beginning to think some of them came to a bad ending.”

You would be wrong.

They BOTH suck

April 19th, 2012
6:45 pm

Mighty Wrong

I have a Bible as well as a Koran handy……. for other sources I will use the internet to validate the info you provide

Waiting

thanks

Thomas

April 19th, 2012
6:48 pm

Why are there so many folks completely scared and lacking of any initiative to go write a business plan, attract SBA and friends and family capital, and go start a business? It is the American way. Solve your problems. The SBA is handing money out. I cannot fathom sitting opressed by an elitist, over paid CEO when there is nothing but opportunity.

Complaining and protesting is like a kid screaming at their parents for more ice cream. Every tool you need, unless you are disabled, is there. Folks are so scared to succeed it is sad.

Becky

April 19th, 2012
6:48 pm

Well doggone-I will make an a$$umption about you, perhaps you are the purveyor of one of those horrid puppy mills where dogs live in crates and never see daylight since you have no problem with this one dog’s treatment. Maybe Michael Vick is a close personal friend as well?

Fred ™

April 19th, 2012
6:49 pm

josef

April 19th, 2012
6:39 pm

ZamVet

Hands over ears going lalalalal I can’t hear you…ALL of those figures you cite are WAAAAY under reality…this is a topic that is just beginning to be discussed. DID you read the article?

Those professions, like the priesthood, are tailor made for the pedophile…

But coaches? Sports? That great bastion of het male butt slapping and naked showering? You sound just like Scout and Del with their “not in MY Corps…”

All in all, if it weren’t such a tragic topic, it would be the height of hilarity…
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Careful Joey. They’ll toss you out of the double nought secret agent blog brotherhood and THEN where will you be?

josef

April 19th, 2012
6:49 pm

Doggone

All’s I can say is anytime I get in a tiff with you, I just remind myself that you like dogs and they like you…that’s about the best character recommendation I can think of. Except maybe for cat people! :-)

BTW the Unmentionable now retired and having the time to spend with a dog is looking at Catahoula Hawg Dogs…any comments on them from an expert?

Becky

April 19th, 2012
6:49 pm

I’m off to go hug my dog.

Midori

April 19th, 2012
6:49 pm

josef

April 19th, 2012
6:50 pm

Doggone

Ooops…he just corrected me…that’s Catahoula Hawg HOUND!

Doggone/GA

April 19th, 2012
6:51 pm

“Well doggone-I will make an a$$umption about you, perhaps you are the purveyor of one of those horrid puppy mills where dogs live in crates and never see daylight since you have no problem with this one dog’s treatment. Maybe Michael Vick is a close personal friend as well?”

You would be wrong.

Fred ™

April 19th, 2012
6:52 pm

Midori: That was awesome. My little guy is a Dachshund. They are just adorable.

josef

April 19th, 2012
6:53 pm

FRED

Heh, heh… Friday Night all will be forgiven for a few hours…but I CAN just see him sitting there hands over ears…it’s been giving us quite the chuckle here at home. And Unmentionable IS a sports devotee…

Doggone/GA

April 19th, 2012
6:53 pm

“All’s I can say is anytime I get in a tiff with you, I just remind myself that you like dogs and they like you…that’s about the best character recommendation I can think of. Except maybe for cat people! ”

Thanks! And if it helps, I like cats too. My last one lived to be 18 1/2 years old. The only reason I don’t have any now is because of all the traveling I have done. It was enough having to deal with up to 10 dogs on the road, I didn’t want to have to deal with a cat too. And I didn’t want any living creature left behind at home when I was on the road.

TaxPayer

April 19th, 2012
6:53 pm

It sounds as thought someone’s God is pretty petty if said God has nothing better to do than to dabble in lame politics. I thought that sort of day to day stuff would have been left to the minions.

godless heathen

April 19th, 2012
6:55 pm

“Here’s to hoping that you are still cooking, David Koresh.”

Ahhh, a crispy Christian reference.

They BOTH suck

April 19th, 2012
6:55 pm

Mighty

Just so we are clear, I was not making fun of your religion or your belief in that religion…

However I was making light and challenging you to provide info to meet your assertions in terms of political affiliation and ideology…….

If you do not want to or can’t answer with more than your “interpretation” that is perfectly ok with me……..

Be back in a little while

Doggone/GA

April 19th, 2012
6:56 pm

“BTW the Unmentionable now retired and having the time to spend with a dog is looking at Catahoula Hawg Dogs…any comments on them from an expert?”

They are strong, tough working dogs. Any dog that has to work with hogs is. Being working dogs they require a job, and if you don’t give them one they’ll find one…and it might not be to your liking! They need something vigorous and physical to do. If you can’t work them, then something like agility is a good subsitute, as it is a physical activity and they have to think about what they are doing as well. They have a LOT of energy. If he can’t commit to a regular, pretty rigorous exercise program, they might not be the best choice.

Mighty Righty

April 19th, 2012
6:56 pm

TBS, You may be reading challenged. You should look into that. I clearly stated I was expressing MY beliefs.

Mudfoot

April 19th, 2012
6:56 pm

Josef

regarding your choice of dog, ‘Catahoulas are smart, sometimes too smart, they bark alot and will drive you crazy unless you excersize them enough. Don’t know how many kids are in your environment or how often but I wouldn’t leave them alone with the dog, they’ve been bred to be agressive and they are protective. They also tend to follow their nose if allowed or unsupervised. Great dogs if your lifestyle fits.

Paul

April 19th, 2012
6:56 pm

Evening, Becky

“Paul-you make some mighty strange assumptions. Why would you think I am an unmarried childless person? where did that come from?”

I try to choose my words pretty carefully. No need to read into them that which isn’t there. I wrote:
“I take it you have limited experience with dog ownership . Not to put too fine a point on it, but I’ve always been leery of unmarried marriage counselors or adults with no kids who are quick to judge the actions of parents.”

I neither wrote (nor thought) you were childless nor did I write or think you are an unmarried marriage counselor.

It’s an analogy.

Doggone/GA

April 19th, 2012
6:58 pm

Fred ™

April 19th, 2012
6:59 pm

They BOTH suck

April 19th, 2012
6:59 pm

TBS

That’s what I thought

Well hope your God isn’t an Obama fan and backs those regs..

F. Sinkwich

April 19th, 2012
7:00 pm

A couple of days ago I posted a spontaneous thought to commemorate an important day for many here.

I went back to read it — its elegance, coherence, relevance, and cadence actually brought a tear to my eye.

I realize many of you were each celebrating the day in your own way, with your families and such, and therefore might have missed it, no fault of your own.

“Today is the day of tithing and offering at the alter of the almighty federal government, knower of all things good, solver of all societal ills, and ensurer of social justice and equality of outcomes for all.

We bow our heads in awe of its magnificence, and pledge to extract substantial additional tribute from those who dared succeed on their own.

Let us face northeast, toward Mecca DC, and quietly recite in unison:

I pledge my allegiance, to the wisdom, of the US Federal Government.
And to the parasites, to which it gives.
One entity, under Obama, who knows what’s best for all.

Amen.”

* All Rights Reserved.

josef

April 19th, 2012
7:01 pm

Dog People…

He’s waiting until we get to the tar paper shotgun on the bayou…he’s a hunter so he’s “at home” with working dogs…he’s grew up hunting wild pigs…he says that’s how he caught me! :-)

godless heathen

April 19th, 2012
7:01 pm

When my lab gives me the sad eyes because I have to go to work, I explain to him that I have to work to buy Purina and gh food. And that if I don’t work the first thing that goes will be the Purina, and then the gh food, and then he’ll be turning on the spit. (Actually I doubt it, but he doesn’t know that.)

They BOTH suck

April 19th, 2012
7:04 pm

Sink

What did the guy at the gas station think about your prayer?

Don't Forget

April 19th, 2012
7:04 pm

Doggone

You put the luggage on the roof, dog in the car. It’s just common sense.

Fred ™

April 19th, 2012
7:04 pm

Does anyone actually read the sht F. Sinkwich posts?

josef

April 19th, 2012
7:05 pm

Doggone

Ours is a cat neighborhood…several of us look after each other’s cats when their people are away from home…

Me? I love all kinds of animals…draw the line at snakes, though!

Paul

April 19th, 2012
7:05 pm

6:48

AAAANNNNNDDDDD Becky cedes the argument to Doggone/GA.

We have a WINNAHHH!!!!!

Adam

April 19th, 2012
7:05 pm

My God blessed us with rights that are not to be taken away by a government

You talk to God? You’re religious.
God talks to you? You’re psychotic.

Paul

April 19th, 2012
7:07 pm

Hi Midori!!!

:-)

Adam

April 19th, 2012
7:08 pm

Becky

April 19th, 2012
7:08 pm

um Paul-don’t think so in my world. I never ever concede on something I feel strongly about.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

April 19th, 2012
7:08 pm

…actually brought a tear to my eye.

Mine too!

But not for “its elegance, coherence, relevance, and cadence”.

Mine were tears born of hilarity.

Yours were ilky tears.

Doggone/GA

April 19th, 2012
7:13 pm

“You put the luggage on the roof, dog in the car. It’s just common sense”

Yeah, well…I already said it wasn’t something *I* would do unless circumstances forced it. And you know what is said about common sense not being so common. But my point is that it is not an INHERENTLY evil choice.

Becky

April 19th, 2012
7:13 pm

I don’t think Ann should be thinking about a new china pattern for the WH. She lost her fans (of which I was one at one time) when she declared it was “their turn” to be residents of the WH. She is looking more common by the day even with all that money. Money can’t buy class but they sure are spending it like they can! LOL.

Doggone/GA

April 19th, 2012
7:14 pm

“We have a WINNAHHH!!!!!”

Would her head explode if she ever found out that the 3 dogs I currently have sleep in bed with me every night?

Mighty Righty

April 19th, 2012
7:15 pm

F. Sinkwich, I too was quite moved by the sincerity of your message of wisdom which was inspired no doubt by provedence. I hereby request your permission to forward copies of the transcribed inspiration to the multitude with whom I correspond, with credit of course.

josef

April 19th, 2012
7:15 pm

PAUL

Analogies, metaphors, and allusions have no place in Blogland…don’t you never read the memos, either?

BECKY
“I never ever concede on something I feel strongly about.”

Give it a try…you might learn a lot about yourself…

F. Sinkwich

April 19th, 2012
7:15 pm

“…actually brought a tear to my eye.

Mine too!”

Thanks, Kam.

I thought I was the only sensitive person here…

Midori

April 19th, 2012
7:17 pm

Hi Fred :)

Hi Paul :)

Doggone — those are just ADORABLE!!! :)

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

April 19th, 2012
7:19 pm

“If you wanna be my lover, you gotta get with my friends
(Gotta get with my friends)
Make it last forever, friendship never ends”
– Thomas Jefferson

Doggone/GA

April 19th, 2012
7:19 pm

“Doggone — those are just ADORABLE!!!”

Yeah, I thought so too!

F. Sinkwich

April 19th, 2012
7:20 pm

MR, thanks for your kind response.

You have my permission to propagate the word, to all, with no encumbrances.

Claim it as your own if you wish.

josef

April 19th, 2012
7:20 pm

“Wasn’t Rand an atheist?”

You mean she didn’t believe in herself?

Aquagirl

April 19th, 2012
7:21 pm

That’s not to mean you are wrong, it’s just that neither of us KNOWS for sure…and one explanation is as good as the other in the absence of proof.

I can buy that….You go with 50/50, I go with preponderance of the evidence. You say tomato, I say tomahto…

I’ve never said Mitt is some kind of dog hater or psycho. The dog probably had a pretty good life. But it’s strange someone would relate this as a lighthearted vacation story, or proof of crisis-management ability or whatever and then get defensive and dodgy when anyone expressed reservations. It’s just….odd.

Don't Forget

April 19th, 2012
7:22 pm

Becky,
She lost her fans (of which I was one at one time) when she declared it was “their turn” to be residents of the WH.

The ultimate sense of entitlement huh? Pretty amazing she thinks that way.

Doggone/GA

April 19th, 2012
7:25 pm

“But it’s strange someone would relate this as a lighthearted vacation story, or proof of crisis-management ability or whatever and then get defensive and dodgy when anyone expressed reservations.”

What it tells ME is that he really has no conception of how other people feel…which I see in other things about his interactions with people as he campaigns. I think he simply has no idea that he can be criticized or that others would feel differently from how he, himself, feels about things.

I heard a story last night about FDR’s funeral trip. Thousands of people came out along the route to pay their respects, and one person asked another if he knew FDR. And the reply was “No, but he knew me”

The problem with Romney, as I see it, is that no one would ever say that about him…unless they were a billionaire.

Becky

April 19th, 2012
7:26 pm

Doggone-glad we can finally agree on something!

Don't Forget

April 19th, 2012
7:27 pm

Doggone
But my point is that it is not an INHERENTLY evil choice.

No, it’s not. But it sure tells me a lot about a guy who puts material things ahead of a family pet.

Anybody who is hurting economically and votes for this guy because they think he will be better at getting things going better hope they are right. Because I don’t think they’re gonna get much sympathy or concern from this guy.

BADA BING

April 19th, 2012
7:28 pm

Fri music suggestions
Elvis-Hound Dog
Baja Men- Who let the dogs out
Bow Wow Wow-I want Candy
3 Dog Night-Jerimia was a bull frog
ATL Rythym Section-Dog Days

josef

April 19th, 2012
7:29 pm

Okay, I’ll jump in on the out-of-touch Romney…I don’t automatically think it’s because of his wealth or even the Golden Ghetto isolation. I think he’s pretty much a cold duck by nature.

Doggone/GA

April 19th, 2012
7:30 pm

“Doggone-glad we can finally agree on something!”

Thank you. Now if we can just agree not to make hurtful assumptions about each other. I’ll have to admit that I found your assumptions about me to be pretty damn ugly.

Doggone/GA

April 19th, 2012
7:31 pm

“Because I don’t think they’re gonna get much sympathy or concern from this guy”

That’s how he comes across to me too.

Doggone/GA

April 19th, 2012
7:32 pm

” I think he’s pretty much a cold duck by nature.”

I wouldn’t be surprised, but his money does go a long way towards insulating him from the real-world consequences of that.

Don't Forget

April 19th, 2012
7:32 pm

FNM should be about the “dirt farmer” IMO.

dbm

April 19th, 2012
7:34 pm

Brosephus™

April 19th, 2012
6:16 pm

It would not be a knee jerk reaction. It would be standing up for the principle that the government should not be forcing people to say things, regardless of what the statement is.

You are playing games with the meaning of the statement “the sky is blue”. The sky is not the same as the air. The sky is what we see when we look up outdoors. When we say “the sky is blue”, we are not saying there is a blue object or substance. We are saying that when we look up outdoors, we see an expanse of blue.

F. Sinkwich

April 19th, 2012
7:35 pm

My tear ducts are dry, washed down my cheeks in awe of the words I penned and have bequeathed to MR.

I still smile at the mirth of Rag, who so eloquently encapsulated the recent controversy about our president’s palate for canine:

“My bologna has a first name, it’s B-E-N-G-I…”

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

April 19th, 2012
7:35 pm

Fri music suggestions

Sat.- Thurs. suggestion
Don’t quit your day job
’cause comedy isn’t
your forte.

Don't Forget

April 19th, 2012
7:35 pm

Josef, agreed, and it probably has a lot to do with WHY he was so successful. He’s gonna look at the macroeconomics and the bottom line. If the middle class benefits it will be secondary and not by design.

josef

April 19th, 2012
7:35 pm

Doggone
@ 7:32

I would agree with that.

They BOTH suck

April 19th, 2012
7:38 pm

josef @ 7:20

hahahahaha

maybe both………..

Don't Forget

April 19th, 2012
7:38 pm

Fishy, Obama was a child when he tried that. Around my house we ate what we were served.

josef

April 19th, 2012
7:41 pm

Don’t Forget…

I would agree with that, too. It’s one of the reasons I am not a big fan of the “successful businessman” as a candidate for this office. Too much of “the bottom line” mentality and data driven analyses is not, imuo, a good thing in a position which requires subtlety and diplomacy.

Aquagirl

April 19th, 2012
7:42 pm

What it tells ME is that he really has no conception of how other people feel…which I see in other things about his interactions with people as he campaigns.

Bingo. I got the same feeling when Mitt said “we have to let the housing market correct itself.” Maybe we do, but he sounded like he was discussing the color of the tablecloth. Not people losing their homes.

This fits with the guy who didn’t really understand all the kerfluffle about that Viet Nam thingy.

Doggone/GA

April 19th, 2012
7:46 pm

Aquagirl – he’s the only person I think I’ve ever seen that looks uncomfortable in blue jeans!

They BOTH suck

April 19th, 2012
7:47 pm

“he’s the only person I think I’ve ever seen that looks uncomfortable in blue jeans!”

Besides Kerry………….. While I thought Kerry was a better choice then Bush…… he tried and tried but couldn’t pull off that middle man shtick

Unfortunately Bush was a better ACTOR at doing it

Brosephus™

April 19th, 2012
7:48 pm

Why are there so many folks completely scared and lacking of any initiative to go write a business plan, attract SBA and friends and family capital, and go start a business?

Yeah right. All the business plan in the world won’t help a business when nobody has money to spend on your business in the first place. If your business ain’t bending over for the monied class, you won’t have much of a customer base right now.

It is the American way.

It WAS the American way. Now, the American way is simply to start a ticking timebomb and sell it to someone else before it blows up. Either that, or start something and then ship it overseas. There are a few exceptions, but what used to be the norm has now become the exception.

Our economy is going through the same thing rivers go through when we dam them up. When they are unimpeded, water flows from the river’s head all the way to the ocean where it evaporates and starts the cycle over again. The more the river is blocked and water is removed, the less water that remains in the cycle to keep the river flowing. If you go long enough, then you end up like the Colorado River…

Historically the Colorado River discharged about 15.1 million acre-feet (18.6 km3) into the Gulf each year, corresponding to an average flow of 20,900 cu ft/s (590 m3/s).[41] Since the beginning of the 20th century, flows have steadily declined, and in most years after 1960 the Colorado River has run dry before reaching the sea.[41] This substantial reduction in flow can be attributed to irrigation and municipal diversions, evaporation from reservoirs, and likely climate change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_River

What we need in our economy right now is for those who are holding up the flow of currency to release the currency into the system. I can’t recall the number of times I’ve heard it repeated that if a wealthy person gave out all their money, they would end up getting it right back because others would spend it and they would work hard to get it again. Well, when it’s not circulating as it should, our consumption-fueled economy suffers like it’s currently doing.

Doggone/GA

April 19th, 2012
7:50 pm

“Unfortunately Bush was a better ACTOR at doing it”

See, I don’t think he was acting. He always struck me as being a “redneck” trapped in a rich man’s world…but missing the common touch, because he wasn’t truly familiar with it.

Brosephus™

April 19th, 2012
7:53 pm

dbm
April 19th, 2012
7:34 pm

I am playing games because I seriously believe the likelyhood of the government ever “forcing” us to say something as stupid as that is about as likely as, for lack of a better allegory, the National Zoo displaying skittle-poopin’ unicorns. The only way we even remotely travel that road is if we continue to allow personal freedoms to be eroded under the guise of pushing ideological beliefs such as requiring people to undergo unreasonable and unwarranted searches for the sake of appeasing the base.

Brosephus™

April 19th, 2012
7:55 pm

the Golden Ghetto isolation

So wrong… But I bet he’s got major street cred over there amongst “those” people. :)

They BOTH suck

April 19th, 2012
7:56 pm

Doggone

We would just have to disagree…… Not knocking his wealth but except for being Governor, Bush lived in the Dallas Country Clubs for years.

He buys a ranch in 1999 and throws his name in the hat for President. Instead of photo ops at the Country Club now he has a “life set” to drive an F250 and wear Texas ties…….

I used to laugh and joke with my conservative friends about it and they said I was cynical…..

Well Bush hasn’t been seen on that ranch lately but he does have a new pad he purchase before leaving office in one of the swankest country clubs where? You got it back in the Big D…..

Like I told my buddies…… it was a “live set” for photo ops from the start……. Made for tv “Im just like you middle America”

Sad thing…….. It not only worked once, but twice

It was a show from start to end

godless heathen

April 19th, 2012
7:56 pm

“I think he’s pretty much a cold duck by nature.”

I read one analysis of Romney that that was “the Mormon way”. I dunno. But he’s never be as “likable” a guy as Presidents Obama or Clinton. I think W would have been fun to hang out with also – back in his drinking days.

They BOTH suck

April 19th, 2012
7:59 pm

Bro

Major Cred………

Rumor has it when he hits Rodeo Dr he sings “Picture me rolln” under his breath

They BOTH suck

April 19th, 2012
8:00 pm

“I think W would have been fun to hang out with also – back in his drinking days.”

Back when he was “Smokn whiskey and drinkn cocaine”

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

April 19th, 2012
8:00 pm

He buys a ranch in 1999…

Only it wasn’t a “ranch” when he bought it.

It was a pig farm.

Midori

April 19th, 2012
8:01 pm

I see Kammy is on a roll as usual :)

Doggone/GA

April 19th, 2012
8:01 pm

“We would just have to disagree”

I don’t think we disagree as much as you think. Bush always seemed to me to be the embodiment of what my Father used to say: “Educated beyond his intelligence”

And that’s not to mean he was stupid, it just means that the money behind him kept him from getting the kind of education that probably would have made him happy and successful. Instead, he was pushed into a world he wasn’t really suited for, and then insulated from his mistakes by the money with which he was surrounded.

I disliked him intensely as a President, and I disliked intensely the decisions that he made (or that were made for him) – but I’ve also, always, felt sorry for him.

They BOTH suck

April 19th, 2012
8:02 pm

Kam

Got you…….. My whole point is that is was a “show” from the start. For people that claim to dislike Hollywood, they did a great acting job with Rancher W…..

josef

April 19th, 2012
8:02 pm

Doggone

I would pretty much agree with you on your characterization of Bush. I always kinda felt sorry for him. He just didn’t fit in anywhere. At Yale, he was a Texas yee-haw. In Texas, he was a Northeastern elite. He always struck me as that kid who wanted to be popular and accepted as “one of the gang” and to do so he was always something of a fawner, tolerated, but never really let in, tolerated by the movers and shakers, manipulated for the entrees his name brought. It, imuo, marked his presidency.

Brosephus™

April 19th, 2012
8:02 pm

They BOTH

I heard his Gulfstream’s rollin’ on 20’s… with spinners.

Mighty Righty

April 19th, 2012
8:04 pm

I know it is fashionable for the left to try to make a big deal out of Romney’s wealth implying somehow he obtained the wealth through less than honorable means. As far as I know his wealth was obtained through hard work and wise investments. That is a path available to all of us. Obama on the other hand, grew up in less than ideal circumstances but some how was able to attend both Columbia and Harvard, two very expensive universities. Thie manner which allowed him to is another of many Obama secrets. His transcripts and admission documents are secret unlike all prior modern presidential candidates. While the Deflectocrats scream for Romney’s tax returns they remain silent about the most commonly available documents concerning Obama that prior presidents released without fear or hesitation. Strange, but a different topic. Back to wealth. The Obama’s are a 2012 version of the Beverly Hillbillies. Suddenly rich, living in the big mansion, with access to the worlds most lavish and largest jets, it is apparent they don’t know how to act. Million dollar vacations in the most luxurious homes and hotels. Taking friends as well as family members on worldwide trips. Listing the daughters as consultants to avoid paying even the minimal transportation charges the governement normaly imposes on family members for non essential trips. Lavish dinners, hundred dollars a bottle wines and the most expensive foods. Certainly the president works hard, and is entitled to these luxuries. But our children and their children will be picking up the tab. This out of control spending during the worst economic times since the depression by a president that claims he wants fairness. Where is the fairness in this spending binge while 20 million americans are out of work and another umpteen million live below the poverty line.and we are borrowing trillions of dollars to support this spending binge government. Is there no common sense in this white house? We elected a representative to represent us. We did not elect a ruler. He is not a king. He is not a monarch.

Doggone/GA

April 19th, 2012
8:05 pm

Josef – very well put. He was born into a world that wasn’t really “his” – but because of that, he couldn’t go “down” to the world that would fit him. It’s not a comfortable situation.

They BOTH suck

April 19th, 2012
8:06 pm

Bro

Bet it has some awesome hydraulics and I’m not just talking for the wing flaps and landing gear

They BOTH suck

April 19th, 2012
8:09 pm

“Taking friends as well as family members on worldwide trips.”

Did Laura ever take friends anywhere while in the WH?

Keep crying MR

Bruno

April 19th, 2012
8:11 pm

Anybody who is hurting economically and votes for this guy because they think he will be better at getting things going better hope they are right. Because I don’t think they’re gonna get much sympathy or concern from this guy.

DF–A healthy economy cures nearly all ills, and beats the crap out of “sympathy and concern”. You gotta start thinking more holistically. ;-)

I disliked him intensely as a President, and I disliked intensely the decisions that he made (or that were made for him) – but I’ve also, always, felt sorry for him.

Doggone–Considering that Obama has continued virtually every objectionable policy which started under Bush, including but not limited to the Patriot Act, Gitmo, bank bailouts, Iraq/Afghanistan + a few new conflicts, do you feel that same level of intense dislike?? Or is it something personal about Bush that you don’t see in Obama that motivates your feelings??

They BOTH suck

April 19th, 2012
8:12 pm

“We did not elect a ruler. He is not a king. He is not a monarch.”

Who said any different? I know that many right leaning pundits love to imply that, but who on the left that is followed to any degree said different

Maybe there is someone…….. Fill us in; so I can say that they are out of line for saying such

They BOTH suck

April 19th, 2012
8:13 pm

Bruno

If you voted for Bush, why change from Bush Light?

just kidding…… we disagree on many things, but on several policies you are dead on with your last post

Doggone/GA

April 19th, 2012
8:14 pm

“including but not limited to the Patriot Act, Gitmo, bank bailouts, Iraq/Afghanistan + a few new conflicts, do you feel that same level of intense dislike?? ”

Why should it? I don’t pretend to be objective in my likes and dislikes. I’m not happy with all of Obama’s policies, anything else doesn’t matter.

Don't Forget

April 19th, 2012
8:15 pm

I would agree with that, too. It’s one of the reasons I am not a big fan of the “successful businessman” as a candidate for this office.Too much of “the bottom line” mentality and data driven analyses is not, imuo, a good thing in a position which requires subtlety and diplomacy.

Same here and the second reason is that trying to run the government like a business is like trying to drive a boat like it was a car.

Brosephus™

April 19th, 2012
8:15 pm

They BOTH

I think I found a clip of of his “Golden Ghetto 1″ :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9EckOAXHKk

*Language alert!!

Doggone/GA

April 19th, 2012
8:17 pm

“Same here and the second reason is that trying to run the government like a business is like trying to drive a boat like it was a car”

I would have said it was like trying to drive a car like it was a boat.

I remember

April 19th, 2012
8:17 pm

Jay’s premise is the standard liberal line “you just want to….” fill in the blank with some preposterous but darkly ominous threat. I am just over listening to the libs standard garbage line..you just want to…
Jay has lost his crediblity and how he is losing any sense of originality or thought that he once had.

His glory of joining Rachel Madow on the least watched TV in America seems to have gone to his already soft head.

dbm

April 19th, 2012
8:18 pm

Brosephus™

April 19th, 2012
7:53 pm

I was using that example because others brought up the statement “the sky is blue” and I wanted to respond by making clear the distinction between objecting to something and objecting to the government forcing people to do it. I do not expect the government ever to force people to say “the sky is blue”, even if we do wind up with a totalitarian dictatorship, unless they happen to choose that out of many options as a way of rawly asserting their power.

Your last sentence is half correct. One of various ways we can start to “travel that road is if we continue to allow personal freedoms to be eroded under the guise of pushing ideological beliefs such as requiring people to undergo unreasonable and unwarranted searches for the sake of appeasing the base.”

Actually we have already traveled quite a way down that road. Fortunately there is still a long way to go before we reach dictatorship. Let’s hope the travel doesn’t speed up.

josef

April 19th, 2012
8:19 pm

BROSEPHUS

I feel much the same way about Obama as I do Bush, only in reverse. Instead of being UNcomfortable in his contrived environment, he is TOO comfortable there. He did move smoothly into the in crowd, its values being his. For all his rhetorical sweet talking, he is just as out of touch with the common citizen as Bush ever was, he just is the manipulator and not the manipulated.

That’s one of the reasons I liked Clinton as much as I did…what you see is what you get.

Bruno

April 19th, 2012
8:19 pm

The Obama’s are a 2012 version of the Beverly Hillbillies. Suddenly rich, living in the big mansion, with access to the worlds most lavish and largest jets, it is apparent they don’t know how to act.

You know, MR, I think you just provided a good counterpoint to josef’s and Doggone’s less than flattering characterization of Bush. You can add to your list the charge of “wannabe”, as Obama uses his position to cozy up to various celebrities, including hip-hop moguls. Here’s the guest list from his 50th “Hip Hop” Birthday Party:

“–GUESTS: Al Sharpton, Patrick Gaspard, UBS Investment Bank President Robert Wolf, FCC Chair Julius Genachowski, Leader Nancy and Paul Pelosi, Secretary Tim Geithner, Secretary Arne Duncan, U.S. Trade Rep. Ron Kirk, Secretary Hillary Clinton, Attorney General Eric Holder, Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, Rep./DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz, former Virginia Gov. and DNC Chair Tim Kaine, Anita Dunn and Bob Bauer, Robert Gibbs, David Axelrod, David Plouffe, Valerie Jarrett, Michael Strautmanis, Pete Rouse, Bill Daley, Deputy Chief of Staff Alyssa Mastromonaco, Denis McDonough, John Brennan, Rahm Emanuel, Tina Tchen, White House chef Sam Kass, Julianna Smoot, Marty Nesbitt, Eric Whitaker, Linda Douglass, and many more.

–CELEBS: Jay-Z, Hill Harper, Chris Rock, Charles Barkley, Steve Harvey, Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson, Grant Hill, Gayle King.

–Also present: Chicago pals, law-school friends, donors – and lots of kids of friends, who stole the show by doing dance routines to the hip-hop songs, in the center of the East Room.”

http://nation.foxnews.com/president-obama/2011/08/05/obama-parties-chris-rock-jay-z-and-whoopi-while-rome-burns