Why Wall Street execs want to silence their shareholders
Last year, the Securities and Exchange Commission approved a new “say on pay” policy that allows shareholders to vote on the pay package for a company’s top executives.
You wouldn’t think that would be a particularly controversial measure. For one thing, the vote isn’t even binding; it is advisory only. And shouldn’t shareholders — the people who actually own a company — be allowed to at least voice an opinion about how their own top employees are paid? Surely that is consistent with free-enterprise market principles, right?
Republicans, however, have fought the measure tooth and nail. It was approved by the SEC by a party-line 3-2 vote, with Republican appointees to the panel trying vainly to delay, weaken or kill it. They also fought it in Congress, voting against “say on pay” in party-line votes in 2009, back when Democrats still had enough votes to pass it.
As the Chicago Tribune reported back then:
“Rep. Pete Sessions (R-Texas), in a comment echoed by fellow Republicans, assailed the (say-on-pay) measure as “unprecedented government intervention in the free enterprise system.”
“This bill is an invitation for political meddling at its worst in the private confines of companies that are trying to work hard to create jobs,” complained Rep. Peter J. Roskam (R-Ill.)
I find those complaints hard to fathom. It is government interference to give the owners of a company a voice — a non-binding voice! — in what its executives are paid?
This week, we got a chance to see the rule in action, and also to see why Republicans continue to fight it so hard. Shareholders at Citigroup, one of the 10 largest banks in the world, voted 55-45 percent on Tuesday to object to the pay packages granted to CEO Vikram Pandit, as well as to bonus and compensation packages for other top executives. By one count, Pandit collected as much as $49 million in pay, stock options, retention bonuses and other compensation last year, even though the company’s performance has lagged.
The Citigroup investor rebellion came after the nation’s largest corporate-governance experts, Institutional Shareholder Services and Glass Lewis & Co., both recommended against approval of the pay package on grounds that it was too generous and wasn’t linked to company performance.
Glass Lewis, for example, gave the company’s executive pay plan an “F”, explaining:
“Having repaid its TARP funds in 2010, the Company was not subject to restrictions governing the structure of compensation paid to its highest-paid executives during 2011. In turn, the Company has implemented incentive plans rampant with significant issues that, in our opinion, warrant shareholder attention. It is clear to us that the Company has squandered the opportunity to form well-designed, objective incentive plans at the lifting of TARP restrictions, opting instead for often discretionary awards that may qualify as a misuse of company capital.”
In other words, the executives were paying themselves more than they were worth and more than they had earned. (When Pandit became CEO in December 2007, Citigroup was selling at a little over $300 a share. Yesterday it closed at $35.08 a share.)
It’s going to be interesting to see what happens now. According to ISS, only 2 percent of executive pay packages were rejected by shareholders last year, so the action by Citigroup investors is pretty noteworthy, suggesting it’s an egregious case. On the other hand, because the Tuesday vote was non-binding, Pandit and Citigroup’s board of directors are under no legal obligation to honor it.
In addition, pay packages for other major Wall Street firms are also coming up for shareholder review, and those companies are also probably nervous about a shareholder revolt.
All of this strikes me as a very good thing. This is not government interference in free markets; this is stockholders regaining just the slightest bit of control over their own property. And it is almost inexplicable to me that Republicans view it as a bad thing.
I say “almost inexplicable,” because blind loyalty to the top 0.001 percent is the only explanation I can offer. If you have a better one, please, let’s hear it.
– Jay Bookman
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946 comments Add your comment
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
4:34 pm
“My 3:32 post was an indication of how Romney’s treatment of his dog reflects a serious character defect that we don’t need in the White House. Are you so dense you couldn’t see that?”
Maybe it is YOU who is so dense you can’t see that YOUR assessment is not neccessarily the correct one.
Mudfoot
April 19th, 2012
4:34 pm
Hey Porkchopicus
Had to roll out yesterday but saw yer question this am. Have hired 16 vets of the signal corps so far from as far away as Cali. Great employees (they tend to have attitude, which is good in this business. Most cell towers aren’t located in the upper-crust areas and some spots are downright dangerous to the point that our police escorts leave at 5 and won’t come back til daylight the next day) These guys have a sense of responsibility and appreciate working for someone who wants them to succeed. Great tip my friend, and much appreciated.
godless heathen©
April 19th, 2012
4:34 pm
acetaminophen is Tylenol, not aspirin.
Bummer about Levon Helm. He was doing some great stuff recently also.
carlosgvv
April 19th, 2012
4:35 pm
td
So cruelty to animals and smoking are equal character flaws in your eyes? Yes, that’s just about what I expected out of you.
Paul
April 19th, 2012
4:35 pm
Becky
“I don’t buy your wandering dog story either if you have had show and performance dogs I would hope they would be in contained environment and not running loose off leash.”
Having read Doggone/GA’s posts for years, I’ll vouch for her. She has, on numerous occasions, talked about her dogs and her experiences. Also about going to some natural areas on exploring hikes. Yes, dogs do run free in such circumstances.
I take it you have limited experience with dog ownership . Not to put too fine a point on it, but I’ve always been leery of unmarried marriage counselors or adults with no kids who are quick to judge the actions of parents.
Oblama
April 19th, 2012
4:38 pm
Alcohol alone can cause liver damage of course, as can acetaminophen alone (tylenol,etc.) – when used on a long term or over excessive basis. I know some of my comparisons are “overboard” (sorry you can’t recognize satire) Some of Oblama’s supporters are overboard. For example, those clowns Ben & Jerry. The thing about them is they are serious and serious stupid is dangerous.
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
April 19th, 2012
4:38 pm
The Republicans sold their stock in Amerka a long long time ago.
When they moved to that galaxy far far away
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
4:38 pm
Thanks Paul!
Don't Forget
April 19th, 2012
4:38 pm
You’ll be missed Levon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPSS69FoGAQ
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 19th, 2012
4:39 pm
Dogs are pack animals.
Most, if not all animals have groupings and maybe adopted by humans into their clan (Flock of birds, sheep; a pack of dogs; a clowder of cats; a murder of crows; a herd of cows etc) . That in and of itself is no reason not to ingest any specie of animal.
But I would agree that were I to adopt an animal into my clan, it would be repugnant for me to eat that individual.
Oblama
April 19th, 2012
4:41 pm
Does Oblama smoking in an enclosed space around his children and pets count as a character flaw since it is bad for their health?
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
4:41 pm
“as can acetaminophen alone (tylenol,etc.) – when used on a long term or over excessive basis”
acetominophen has the additional problem of being extremely toxic to some people. I knew someone who found out the “hard way” – she died almost immediately after taking some that was prescribed by her doctor for neck pain, It’s got something to do with how a person’s body does (or doesn’t) handle iron. I don’t know the details. But I do know someone else with that same problem and she NEVER takes acetominophen, and she religiously gives blood every month to keep the iron from building up too high.
Oblama
April 19th, 2012
4:42 pm
Is the President drug tested like an employee of a corporation – especially since he admitted doing weed and cocaine?
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
4:44 pm
“Is the President drug tested like an employee of a corporation – especially since he admitted doing weed and cocaine?”
Only his doctor knows for sure
td
April 19th, 2012
4:46 pm
carlosgvv
April 19th, 2012
4:35 pm
td
So cruelty to animals and smoking are equal character flaws in your eyes? Yes, that’s just about what I expected out of you.
Cruelty to animals: also called animal abuse or animal neglect, is the infliction of suffering or harm upon non-human animals, for purposes other than self-defense.
Now can you prove the dog suffered?
As far as smoking goes, yes I am pretty sure most people will agree that it is a character flaw.
BADA BING
April 19th, 2012
4:46 pm
Hung Chow Chinese Restaurant
Washington DC
#10 Presidential Special
Pekingese Duck & Noodles and Poodles
Serves 4
Paul
April 19th, 2012
4:48 pm
carlosgvv
“We definitely don’t need a combination religious nut/sociopath in the White House.”
Your comments are getting into the realm of lalaland – don’t exactly persuade fence-sitters who peruse blogs.
Doggone/GA
No prob. And Becky – I’ve had some knock-down, drag outs with Doggone/GA. She’s pretty passionate about what she knows, doesn’t let people who ‘feel’ something’s valid override her experiential knowledge and will definitely not concede a point until one comes up with some valid data to justify so doing.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 19th, 2012
4:48 pm
As far as smoking goes, yes I am pretty sure most people will agree that it is a character flaw.
Nicotine addiction is a character flaw?
Joe Hussein Mama
April 19th, 2012
4:50 pm
Mudfoot — “Most cell towers aren’t located in the upper-crust areas and some spots are downright dangerous to the point that our police escorts leave at 5 and won’t come back til daylight the next day)”
Scary!
“These guys have a sense of responsibility and appreciate working for someone who wants them to succeed. Great tip my friend, and much appreciated.”
Hey, it was a win-win. You get quality employees, and some of my brother (and sister?) Signal Corps vets get jobs in the civilian sector. Thank you for hiring veterans, my friend.
Oblama
April 19th, 2012
4:52 pm
Not poodles – but Chow dogs are on the menu in certain Asian countries. There is one that I fondly remember in Vietnam but can’t recall the name right now. That black tongue laid out on the plate is something special.
(ir)Rational
April 19th, 2012
4:52 pm
Maybe not nicotine addiction Kam, but being a Chelsea fan is MOST DEFINITELY a character flaw. I was really sad to see that Messi didn’t do better against the Blues yesterday.
Oh, and hi.
carlosgvv
April 19th, 2012
4:53 pm
Doggone/GA – 4:33
Those ideas are not MINE. They are the ideas of canine experts with many years of experience and study. And, just because dogs are adaptable and resilient doesn’t mean you should be indifferent to how you treat them. Cruelty to animals is a character flaw that, more often than not, indicates a serious pyschological disorder.
Aquagirl
April 19th, 2012
4:53 pm
Now can you prove the dog suffered?
I’m not an expert in canine behavior, but $#!^ running down the windows might be a non-verbal cue.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 19th, 2012
4:57 pm
…but being a Chelsea fan is MOST DEFINITELY a character flaw.
I will fly my flawed flag proudly, then.
Don’t forget, we are also playing Liverpool in the final for the FA cup.
Oblama
April 19th, 2012
4:58 pm
K – Getting addicted to anything shows weakness and can be considered a character flaw. For example, I am addicted to trail mix. Unfortunately it is loaded with calories. If someone wants to smoke that’s unfortunate, not smart, and addictive but it is their business since it’s still legal. Then when they get sick they can get on Oblama Care. Smoking around children and pets is a character flaw as it shows a lack of concern for the health of others.
Recon 0311 2533
April 19th, 2012
4:59 pm
Lets see, class warfare, war against woman, war against dogs…give peace a chance. Isn’t it time for clean sheets.
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
5:00 pm
“Some unsolicited advice — Excedrin is a combination of acetaminophen, aspirin, and caffeine. People who drink alcohol should never take acetaminophen due to the risk of liver damage”
Kamchak,
That would be sage advice. I did know that about acetominophen but not about excedrin. In any event I don’t take anything within a couple of days of having drinken any alcohol because of that. I think its much worse if you take acet in tandem with alcohol. Not sure if it does any damage at all if you take it without alcohol. If there’s a doc in the house perhaps they can verify a bit better whether you should take it at all if you drink regularly.
(ir)Rational
April 19th, 2012
5:02 pm
Kam – Yeah, yeah, yeah. Arsenal are going to destroy y’all this Saturday.
And while being a Chelsea fan could be seen as a character flaw, it is nothing in comparison to being a Manchester (United or City) fan. Having said that, if Chelsea beats my two favorite teams in a four day period, I might have to re-evaluate my choices.
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
5:03 pm
“Those ideas are not MINE. They are the ideas of canine experts with many years of experience and study.”
yes, and I am very familiar with some of those “experts” – especially the ones that are full of baloney.
” And, just because dogs are adaptable and resilient doesn’t mean you should be indifferent to how you treat them. Cruelty to animals is a character flaw that, more often than not, indicates a serious pyschological disorder”
And where is the proof that what Romney did was either indifferent or cruel? What is “cruel” to some people is just their own perception and has no basis in reality. I would call what the Romney’s did unkind at best…but if they were evacuating (for example) from a disaster and that was the only way to keep their dog with them, would you STILL castigate them for doing it?
With 30 years experience, ranging over travel to all states east of the Mississippi, and a few west of that river…and over 25 dogs, I do not see any inherent cruelty or indifference in what they did. I would not do the same by choice, but that does not mean I think they were wrong to do it and it does not mean I wouldn’t do it if it was needed.
Boris Badnoff
April 19th, 2012
5:03 pm
Most people are speciests. They adore cute animals such a puppy dogs, kitty cats, tweetie birds, etc. But I, like most of you, despise insects. Did not the same God that created cats and dogs also create cockroaches? If some one mistreats a dog or cat the furies of hades descend on them. But no one cares when an ant colony is destroyed, or a spider squished. At my hovel I have millipedes. They do not harm me in any way but I kill them on sight because of my hatred for anything with more than 4 legs. If you have squirted insecticide on one of God’s creatures for no reason, who are you to criticize a rich guy for strapping a pooch on the roof of a car. Besides the mutt liked it. All liberals need to unite and demand Roach Rights.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 19th, 2012
5:03 pm
Getting addicted to anything shows weakness and can be considered a character flaw.
We are making great strides against addiction now, because we are treating it as a disease and not a stigma.
For example, I am addicted to trail mix.
No, you are very fond of trail mix and you trivialize those with addictions with that type of toolish comment.
Oblama
April 19th, 2012
5:04 pm
All you Oblama supporting socialists have a good day! Got to go work out so I don’t have to depend on the government to take care of me. Gone today – here tomorrow.
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
5:04 pm
Dang. Didn’t see all the other posts on acetaminophen. I think I’ll quit taking it period although I rarely take it to begin with- probably a handful of times a year at most.
Paul
April 19th, 2012
5:05 pm
Recon
You think the dog and pony show is wearing thin?
That a couple of bloggers are being dogged?
Or that some bloggers respond quite well to a talking point dog whistle?
But I do think most of the points have been made. After all, every dog has its day -
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
5:05 pm
“I’m not an expert in canine behavior, but $#!^ running down the windows might be a non-verbal cue”
And that could just as easily happened INSIDE the car. Some dogs have strange physiolgical reactions to being excited about traveling. I had one that drooled so much from excitement that I would have to stop and empty his crate out every couple of hours. He only, finally, stopped doing that when he grew up enough to start participating in his favorite sport.
Brosephus™
April 19th, 2012
5:06 pm
Did you know that rabbits are one of the few animals that will not protect their young?
I didn’t know that, but that explains things that I saw growing up. Many a time I’ve walked up on the young with mommy nowhere to be found.
(ir)Rational
April 19th, 2012
5:07 pm
And I’m out. Kam – if I don’t make it on tomorrow, have fun watching Arsenal take down Chelsea Saturday morning.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 19th, 2012
5:08 pm
And while being a Chelsea fan could be seen as a character flaw, it is nothing in comparison to being a Manchester (United or City) fan.
That reminds me — HEY JEROME! ARE YOU AROUND? WHY DIDN’T YOUR EVIL RED DEVILS MAKE IT PAST GROUP STAGE IN THE UCL, HUH?
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
5:08 pm
I’m out for a while…need to get out of the house
JamVet
April 19th, 2012
5:08 pm
Newsflash.
This just in.
Ted Nutjob and the Secret Service have just concluded their meeting about where to find the best whores.
Oblama
April 19th, 2012
5:09 pm
K – I apologize for that toolish comment. Uhhh, just what is a toolish comment and why am I apologizing? ‘Cause the President has made apologizing when you are not guilty a very “stylish” thing.
Joe Hussein Mama
April 19th, 2012
5:10 pm
Aquagirl — “I’m not an expert in canine behavior, but $#!^ running down the windows might be a non-verbal cue.”
That’s always been how *I* signal distress.
Recon 0311 2533
April 19th, 2012
5:10 pm
Paul, my dog has its day every day. Spoiled rotten.
Don't Forget
April 19th, 2012
5:11 pm
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
4:41 pm
“as can acetaminophen alone (tylenol,etc.) – when used on a long term or over excessive basis”
acetominophen has the additional problem of being extremely toxic to some people. I knew someone who found out the “hard way” – she died almost immediately after taking some that was prescribed by her doctor for neck pain, It’s got something to do with how a person’s body does (or doesn’t) handle iron. I don’t know the details. But I do know someone else with that same problem and she NEVER takes acetominophen, and she religiously gives blood every month to keep the iron from building up too high.
You’re talking about hereditary hemochromatosis a disorder that causes excessive iron absorption in the intestines and iron build up in the tissues. It affects multiple organs, most frequently the liver. The tylenol simply aggravated the underlying liver disease. The treatment is phlebotomy.
Brosephus™
April 19th, 2012
5:11 pm
That’s always been how *I* signal distress.
If we ever get a chance to meet in person, I will try to look as non-threatening as possible. I would hate for you to have to light up the Bat signal.
Dirty Dawg
April 19th, 2012
5:13 pm
ME…Mary Elizabeth that is…you’re most welcome. And I was serious about the Democratic Party in Georgia’s only chance of ever again winning a statewide race will be if they run a woman. Of course she’d have to be tough and smart, plus the Republicans would have to have continued their assault on women’s rights.
Oblama
April 19th, 2012
5:13 pm
JamVet – Now haven’t you learned anything in this P.C. world? You can’t go around calling whores,whores.
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
5:13 pm
carlosgvv,
What you view as crating a dog being cruel is just plain poppycock. If anything a dog is a helluva lot safer in a crate on top of car then he is being totally unsecured sitting inside of a car and going flying if the car gets into an accident. What exactly is your complaint? That he was exposed to wind? Most dog owners that I’ve seen their dogs try to stick their heads out the window to experience the wind and smell everything. Or the ones in the bed of a pickup truck seem to love the open air. So is that the problem?
Or is it that he was placed on top of the car? So what. I see cattle hearded in cattle trailers and chickens in trailers on the way to market that are sitting in pens in those 18 wheel trailers that are sitting up a helluva lot higher than a crate on top of a station wagon. Are they being treated inhumanely with all that wind and sitting up higher than what Romney’s dog was exposed to?
And as far the dog pooping you don’t know that it was because he was terrified. Coulda been the dog just had the runs/diarrhea.
Aquagirl
April 19th, 2012
5:13 pm
Some dogs have strange physiolgical reactions to being excited about traveling.
I usually go with the most likely explanation in any scenario. “The dog was so happy it was $#!^ing uncontrollably” is not a likely explanation.
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
5:14 pm
“hearded”- too funny
Oblama
April 19th, 2012
5:15 pm
……
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
5:17 pm
$#!^ running down the windows might be a non-verbal cue.”
Or it could mean the obvious. That the dog just has diarrhea and that it has nothing to do with him being scared or not.
Paul
April 19th, 2012
5:18 pm
Recon
Spoiled? Mine’s just excessively pampered. Shoulda’ seen my wife’s face when I came back from a trip to Harrods with a jeweled collar -
dbm
April 19th, 2012
5:23 pm
Please forgive me if I overlooked a post where this was addressed. What are the rules regarding shareholder-initiated votes?
dbm
April 19th, 2012
5:28 pm
mm
April 19th, 2012
9:38 am
Rightwing Troll
April 19th, 2012
9:48 am
If the government started forcing people to say the sky was blue, I would object.
Joe Hussein Mama
April 19th, 2012
5:29 pm
Aquagirl — ““The dog was so happy it was $#!^ing uncontrollably”
ZOMG CAR TRIP CAR TRIP LET’S GO LET’S GO LET’S GO GO GOOOOOOO
saywhat?
April 19th, 2012
5:30 pm
Aquagirl — ““The dog was so happy it was $#!^ing uncontrollably”
You mean it doesn’t only happen to me?
carlosgvv
April 19th, 2012
5:31 pm
Paul 4:48
So George W. Bush was a great president and getting us into two wars was a great thing and having many thousands of our troops killed, wounded and maimed was a great thing and spending billions and billions of dollars on these wars was a great thing? And you want more of the same in the White House? And I am the one in lalaland?
Joe Hussein Mama
April 19th, 2012
5:31 pm
Brosephus — “If we ever get a chance to meet in person, I will try to look as non-threatening as possible. I would hate for you to have to light up the Bat signal.”
In one of his routines, George Carlin used to comment on the horrifying mental image he got from the word “s&%t-fit” and how he NEVER wanted to be around someone who was having one.
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
5:33 pm
And you want more of the same in the White House?- Carlosgvv
W is running for president again?
carlosgvv
April 19th, 2012
5:33 pm
Doggone/GA
If reincarnation is real and I come back as a dog, I hope with all my heart not to EVER be owned by you.
Paul
April 19th, 2012
5:33 pm
carlosgvv
I was referring to the dog remarks and Romney remarks.
Aquagirl
April 19th, 2012
5:34 pm
Or it could mean the obvious. That the dog just has diarrhea and that it has nothing to do with him being scared or not.
Oh, much better. Because nothing says “dog lover” like trapping one in the equivalent of a overfilled porta-potty and strapping it to the roof of the car.
saywhat?
April 19th, 2012
5:36 pm
What do you call a dog with no legs?
Anything you want. Its not coming anyway.
getalife
April 19th, 2012
5:38 pm
Just because Seamus ate the turkey, willard tortured the crap out of Seamus.
Brosephus™
April 19th, 2012
5:40 pm
If the government started forcing people to say the sky was blue, I would object.
Hopefully, your objection would be based in logic and science. If it’s based only on the government actions, I’d really feel bad for you…
WHY IS THE SKY BLUE?
The blue color of the sky is due to Rayleigh scattering. As light moves through the atmosphere, most of the longer wavelengths pass straight through. Little of the red, orange and yellow light is affected by the air.
However, much of the shorter wavelength light is absorbed by the gas molecules. The absorbed blue light is then radiated in different directions. It gets scattered all around the sky. Whichever direction you look, some of this scattered blue light reaches you. Since you see the blue light from everywhere overhead, the sky looks blue.
As you look closer to the horizon, the sky appears much paler in color. To reach you, the scattered blue light must pass through more air. Some of it gets scattered away again in other directions. Less blue light reaches your eyes. The color of the sky near the horizon appears paler or white.
Aquagirl
April 19th, 2012
5:40 pm
What do you call a dog with no legs?
Cigarette, because you take him outside for a drag. HAHAHA….haha..ha. ha.
JamVet
April 19th, 2012
5:40 pm
Tis true, George Walker Bush can never again leave a massive trail of destruction and death in his wake while he resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
I believe that the republic rightfully has grave concerns that George Willard Bush would produce just about the same results…
barking frog
April 19th, 2012
5:41 pm
Because
nothing says “dog lover” like
trapping one in the
equivalent of a overfilled
porta-potty and strapping it
to the roof of a car.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm
nothin says lovin like
puppy from the oven
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
April 19th, 2012
5:45 pm
Well, seems to me people are mighty desperate to get Obama out of office and keep Romney from getting in. When you got to resort to talking about eating or mistreating a dog, you’re about out of ammo.
pogo
April 19th, 2012
5:45 pm
Jay tries to make a case that the Republicans are the only ones that are in bed with big money and they are the only ones who try to fashion our laws in favour of large corporations and banks. That is just plain sad. Pages and pages could be written on Obama, Geithners and Bernanke’s relationship and their love of the big money people on Wall Street and in the big banks. In the last three years the big banks that sucked up TARP funds have not been split up but have grown even stronger and even more controlling. Like some leaders in the past, Obama does not mind if big banks or corporations get bigger and get more control just as long as the government has increased control of them. The big corporations that supported Obama have been showered with stimulus dollars and have been the beneficiaries of his use of agencies such as the EPA as a tool to further their interests (and his). Jay are you this naieve?
Joe Hussein Mama
April 19th, 2012
5:50 pm
Shorter pogo — WAAAAAAAAAH, you do it TOO.
JamVet
April 19th, 2012
5:52 pm
Nineteen years ago today a huge Republican hero self-immolated himself and dozens of innocent people.
Here’s to hoping that you are still cooking, David Koresh.
josef
April 19th, 2012
5:53 pm
Dang, it’s truly a slow news day,
PAUL
Well, you left EOI to me and ZamVet last p.m. Ha! I told you I should steer clear of him. He WAS on the rag…had a straight male butch attack, he did…
ZamVet
Heh, heh. Went back and read over the posts. Change the whyfor of pedophile priests and put in coach and they read the same…
dbm
April 19th, 2012
5:53 pm
Brosephus™
April 19th, 2012
5:40 pm
I would be objecting to the use of government force, not to the statement itself. Obviously you would be confused by my objection, so I would have to make clear that I agree that the sky is blue, that I can tell this just by looking at it, and that I welcome scientific analysis such as you present.
I would object to the government forcing people to say ANYTHING, even if it was something I say a lot and consider important.
Paul
April 19th, 2012
5:56 pm
“Well, seems to me people are mighty desperate to get Obama out of office and keep Romney from getting in. When you got to resort to talking about eating or mistreating a dog, you’re about out of ammo.”
Who’da thunk Redneck Convert would win the Post of the Day award?
josef
aannnnnnd…… you didn’t do anything to exacerbate the situation, did you, hmmmmmm?
Mudfoot
April 19th, 2012
5:57 pm
Joe Barack Obama Mama
“win win situation”
No doubt. I’m always looking for good people and vets can do this job and remain relatively sane (unlike most folk). Let me know if you have more prospects in mind. I can’t usually blog very long at a sitting and usually read more than I post but will get the message. (Climbing towers ain’t easy with 80 lbs of gear strapped to ya so physical capability is required, but I’ll at least interview anyone you refer)
josef
April 19th, 2012
6:00 pm
PAUL
Moi? Would I do any such thing? Now, today, it’s Thursday…gloves off!
carlosgvv
April 19th, 2012
6:07 pm
Doom – 5:33
While Romney tries to be different, his mentality seems to be a George W. Bush clone job.
josef
April 19th, 2012
6:12 pm
ZamVet
And remember, google is your enemy as well as your friend…data? Take a look at this…
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/cover/news/2000/04/14/nack_nightmare/
Brosephus™
April 19th, 2012
6:16 pm
Obviously you would be confused by my objection
Obviously, you could be no further from the truth. I would not be confused at all. I would simply laugh my ass off at your knee jerk reaction. I would also laugh my ass off at anybody else who thought the sky was ACTUALLY blue. Air has no color unless it’s polluted with something else. The “blue” color that people associate with the sky is only light being reflected and refracted at different wavelengths.
Mighty Righty
April 19th, 2012
6:18 pm
I agree with the premise that shareholders in a compa should be allowed to approve of executive pay. A shareholder can of course divest him or her self of the stock any company if the share holder disagrees with the actions of the company. Share holders are not indentured servants. However it is none of the governments business how a private company pays its people. On the other hand the government (read we the people) also own business like Solyndra, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, et al. Strange how the government doesn’t want we the people (read shareholders)who own or at least subsidize these failures to have any say what so ever. The same government that cannot successfully run or even make an intelligent investment in its own business thinks it should substitute its proven stupidty for the wisdom of private enterprise. I suggest the government but the H— out of private business and tend to its own business. I for one would like to see the government do somehing, anything well before it tells others what to do. Let them cast the first stone so to speak. How about it Jay? How about complaining about the incompetent, ignorance on display every day by the Washington wizards who have no business experience at all let alone successful business experience telling business how to run their business? It is the very atitude demonstrated by this topic mostly on the left that has caused 20 million of our people give or take to be unemployed. Our economy will never vigorously grow again until the government gets out of the way and tends to its own problems. I pray that when the Republicans take over this November they eliminate all Obama administration regulations and most of the other regulations that have been imposed with good intentions on our economy over the last twenty years. Unleash free enterprise and this country will once again provide a healthy, wealthy future for our children, grand children and the world.
They BOTH suck
April 19th, 2012
6:22 pm
“I pray that when the Republicans take over this November they eliminate all Obama administration regulations..”
To whom are you praying and how do you know your God isn’t in favor of those regulations?
JamVet
April 19th, 2012
6:25 pm
Table 7. Percent of Student Targets by
Job Title Percent
Teacher 18
Coach 15
Substitute Teachers 13
Bus Driver 12
Teacher’s Aide 11
Other School Employee 10
Security Guard 10
Principal 6
Counselor 5
Total 100
Source: Shakeshaft, 2003; AAUW, 2001
http://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/research/pubs/misconductreview/report.pdf
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 19th, 2012
6:25 pm
To whom are you praying…
Ayn Rand.
…and how do you know your God isn’t in favor of those regulations?
See above.
Becky
April 19th, 2012
6:26 pm
Paul-you make some mighty strange assumptions. Why would you think I am an unmarried childless person? where did that come from?
And doggone if you have had 25 dogs in 30 years I am beginning to think some of them came to a bad ending. Really? Most of our dogs live to their late teens. perhaps you have been tossing some off the roof of your van?
Thulsa-Mittens himself said the trip was in November-me thinks it was probably chilly to have the wind whipping the poor shivering WET and soiled dog after it was hosed off. It does not matter if it got sick from fear or not. It should not have had to suffer.
One of the worst things about all this is Mittens himself has said he is sorry, sorry it got out what had happened and he has in no way apologized or said he could have done things differently. Ann just stood by and said nothing herself? These people are cruel and heartless and clueles as are some of you thinking this is all okay.
They BOTH suck
April 19th, 2012
6:28 pm
Kam
I just love those kind of posts……..
It is cheap humor, however it they do amuse me to no end
They BOTH suck
April 19th, 2012
6:29 pm
Kam
Wasn’t Rand an Atheist?
I could be wrong and she could still be someone’s God……… just sayn
truedat
April 19th, 2012
6:32 pm
Are corporate executives moral people?
I am trying to understand the mindset of the corporate executive. For example if you’re the CEO of Verizon how do you reconcile the following things in your mind?
The company is a healthy and profitable.
You just became CEO last year and your pay went from 7 million dollars to 24 million dollars.
You continue to send American jobs overseas.
You want to take away employees pensions, healthcare plans and a dozen other important benefits.
You claim that the union employee is from the nonprofitable wireline side of the business when you have got to know full well that wireless traffic and FIOs TV and internet would not exist without the wireline side of the business.
I can certainly understand the obligation the executive feels to make the stock price go higher but at what point does he look in the mirror and say to himself
“As an American do I have anykind of obligation to try to keep the middle class alive in this country?”
“If corporations send every American job possible overseas and cut the salaries of the remaining workers, is it possible that people will no longer have any spare money to buy cell phone plans, FIOS and other products?”
“Is it unfair of me to take 24 million dollars in compensation in a single year as I look to take back 20k worth of compensation from a typical middle class worker?”
I personally do not understand how a person can totally disconnect these things in his mind.
Brosephus™
April 19th, 2012
6:35 pm
In one of his routines, George Carlin used to comment on the horrifying mental image he got from the word “s&%t-fit” and how he NEVER wanted to be around someone who was having one.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 19th, 2012
6:37 pm
I could be wrong and she could still be someone’s God……… just sayn
You’re not wrong, and she is (wrong and someone’s god).
Ironic, ain’t it?
Mighty Righty
April 19th, 2012
6:38 pm
TBS, I don’t know about your belief, but my God is not a Socialist, Communist, Nazi, Facist. My God blessed us with rights that are not to be taken away by a government. In November, my God will rectify past mistakes made by men. Amen.
They BOTH suck
April 19th, 2012
6:38 pm
Kam
Irony cuts deep sometimes………
josef
April 19th, 2012
6:39 pm
ZamVet
Hands over ears going lalalalal I can’t hear you…ALL of those figures you cite are WAAAAY under reality…this is a topic that is just beginning to be discussed. DID you read the article?
Those professions, like the priesthood, are tailor made for the pedophile…
But coaches? Sports? That great bastion of het male butt slapping and naked showering? You sound just like Scout and Del with their “not in MY Corps…”
All in all, if it weren’t such a tragic topic, it would be the height of hilarity…
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
6:39 pm
“I usually go with the most likely explanation in any scenario. “The dog was so happy it was $#!^ing uncontrollably” is not a likely explanation”
Maybe not to you, but having dealt with just such a reaction numerous times over the last 30 years…your “likelyhood” is very likely. That’s not to mean you are wrong, it’s just that neither of us KNOWS for sure…and one explanation is as good as the other in the absence of proof.
They BOTH suck
April 19th, 2012
6:40 pm
“TBS, I don’t know about your belief, but my God is not a Socialist, Communist, Nazi, Facist.”
Plese provide text from the Bible or other literature to back up your claim as to what political belief system that God has or doesn’t have?
Thanks
Adam
April 19th, 2012
6:40 pm
I have to say, seriously and genuinely, it’s nice to see a lot of people in good humor over these past few pages
Fred ™
April 19th, 2012
6:40 pm
saywhat?
April 19th, 2012
5:36 pm
What do you call a dog with no legs?
Anything you want. Its not coming anyway.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What do you do with a dog that has no legs?
Take it for a drag……..
They BOTH suck
April 19th, 2012
6:41 pm
“My God blessed us with rights that are not to be taken away by a government.”
Did your God personally speak of those rights or are you referring to the Declaration of Independence?
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
6:41 pm
“I hope with all my heart not to EVER be owned by you.”
That’s fine. I wouldn’t want to own you anyway. I prefer dogs that have some sense.