Why Wall Street execs want to silence their shareholders
Last year, the Securities and Exchange Commission approved a new “say on pay” policy that allows shareholders to vote on the pay package for a company’s top executives.
You wouldn’t think that would be a particularly controversial measure. For one thing, the vote isn’t even binding; it is advisory only. And shouldn’t shareholders — the people who actually own a company — be allowed to at least voice an opinion about how their own top employees are paid? Surely that is consistent with free-enterprise market principles, right?
Republicans, however, have fought the measure tooth and nail. It was approved by the SEC by a party-line 3-2 vote, with Republican appointees to the panel trying vainly to delay, weaken or kill it. They also fought it in Congress, voting against “say on pay” in party-line votes in 2009, back when Democrats still had enough votes to pass it.
As the Chicago Tribune reported back then:
“Rep. Pete Sessions (R-Texas), in a comment echoed by fellow Republicans, assailed the (say-on-pay) measure as “unprecedented government intervention in the free enterprise system.”
“This bill is an invitation for political meddling at its worst in the private confines of companies that are trying to work hard to create jobs,” complained Rep. Peter J. Roskam (R-Ill.)
I find those complaints hard to fathom. It is government interference to give the owners of a company a voice — a non-binding voice! — in what its executives are paid?
This week, we got a chance to see the rule in action, and also to see why Republicans continue to fight it so hard. Shareholders at Citigroup, one of the 10 largest banks in the world, voted 55-45 percent on Tuesday to object to the pay packages granted to CEO Vikram Pandit, as well as to bonus and compensation packages for other top executives. By one count, Pandit collected as much as $49 million in pay, stock options, retention bonuses and other compensation last year, even though the company’s performance has lagged.
The Citigroup investor rebellion came after the nation’s largest corporate-governance experts, Institutional Shareholder Services and Glass Lewis & Co., both recommended against approval of the pay package on grounds that it was too generous and wasn’t linked to company performance.
Glass Lewis, for example, gave the company’s executive pay plan an “F”, explaining:
“Having repaid its TARP funds in 2010, the Company was not subject to restrictions governing the structure of compensation paid to its highest-paid executives during 2011. In turn, the Company has implemented incentive plans rampant with significant issues that, in our opinion, warrant shareholder attention. It is clear to us that the Company has squandered the opportunity to form well-designed, objective incentive plans at the lifting of TARP restrictions, opting instead for often discretionary awards that may qualify as a misuse of company capital.”
In other words, the executives were paying themselves more than they were worth and more than they had earned. (When Pandit became CEO in December 2007, Citigroup was selling at a little over $300 a share. Yesterday it closed at $35.08 a share.)
It’s going to be interesting to see what happens now. According to ISS, only 2 percent of executive pay packages were rejected by shareholders last year, so the action by Citigroup investors is pretty noteworthy, suggesting it’s an egregious case. On the other hand, because the Tuesday vote was non-binding, Pandit and Citigroup’s board of directors are under no legal obligation to honor it.
In addition, pay packages for other major Wall Street firms are also coming up for shareholder review, and those companies are also probably nervous about a shareholder revolt.
All of this strikes me as a very good thing. This is not government interference in free markets; this is stockholders regaining just the slightest bit of control over their own property. And it is almost inexplicable to me that Republicans view it as a bad thing.
I say “almost inexplicable,” because blind loyalty to the top 0.001 percent is the only explanation I can offer. If you have a better one, please, let’s hear it.
– Jay Bookman
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946 comments Add your comment
Fred ™
April 19th, 2012
1:51 pm
Adam: Really? You provide a study that compares 4 talk shows on Sunday morning, anotheron ethat compares FOX news and Wolf Blitzer and that is “proof” lol? Ok. I guess it WASN’T you who said that FOX is cable and therefore not representative of the ‘media.”
Wow.
Adam
April 19th, 2012
1:51 pm
stands: Adam, should I point out to TD that a majority of assembly line workers votin’ Democrat don’t make the plant “librully biased”, or do you want to have some fun with that?
Feel free. I’m trying to stick entirely to factual data here and see what happens
Butch Cassidy
April 19th, 2012
1:52 pm
RB from Gwinnett – “Can we also give the people actually paying taxes a little more say in how it’s spent too?That seems fair.”
Sure, but first I suggest an intelligence test. First question: Do you know the differnce between a “publicly” traded company and a “privately” held one? Oops, You already failed RB. No input for you on tax policy. However, if you can tell me what Cox Communication shares are trading at today, I may give you a pass.
Mick
April 19th, 2012
1:52 pm
recon
Your wager would be a winner, except I did peruse a few chapters which left me very unimpressed or convinced of his viewpoint…
They BOTH suck
April 19th, 2012
1:53 pm
“They BOTH suck: Two of the links I posted may be editorial articles, but the studies which they base their editorial on are not.”
Adam if it is so pervasive one way or another why can’t you find an article from today
Smae goes for RB and Fred
All three of you were in a pillow fight and produced studies that the other side denounced……
Articles? Not so much
But keep the pillow fight going……. You three might even progress into thumb wrestling
Matti
April 19th, 2012
1:53 pm
Big oil companies get a 5800% return on every dollar they spend on Congress.
http://www.bartcop.com/oil-lobby-zz.jpg
I can’t afford to pay my Congressman enough to care what I think! Dang.
Logical Dude
April 19th, 2012
1:54 pm
Adam
April 19th, 2012 1:10 pm Fred, Oscar: There’s also THIS little piece of propaganda masquerading as a fact check:
I checked the link, and if you actually read the article, the headline is WRONG. It has a rating of PANTS OF FIRE. (pretty much their highest level of lying).
So, please read the article that you post to, and not just the headline.
So, yes, Republicans HAVE introduced many jobs bills.
Adam
April 19th, 2012
1:54 pm
Fred: I guess it WASN’T you who said that FOX is cable and therefore not representative of the ‘media.”
You are correct, I did not say that. It would be foolish to ignore Fox as a media outlet, since a lot of people watch it. Besides, if I include MSNBC at all, I have to include anything and everything that has more viewership and calls itself news.
And I suggest you read the cited material more carefully. You seem to be looking for anything you can superficially use to prove me wrong.
Adam
April 19th, 2012
1:56 pm
Logical Dude: So, please read the article that you post to, and not just the headline.
I did read the article, as you can see from my complete takedown here:
http://www.leftrazoredge.com/2012/01/26/politifact-is-no-longer-relevant/
I’ll take your apology on your statement any time you’re ready.
So, yes, Republicans HAVE introduced many jobs bills.
You will also see why this is NOT true if you read my takedown.
Fred ™
April 19th, 2012
1:56 pm
Look, I loathe hard-line religious extremism and would never argue on behalf of their perceived right to stone adulterers, or to discriminate against gays or whatnot. That’s not the point I was making against these backwater a-holes’ legislation, not at all.
I think I see what you are saying now. It’s the “law of unintended consequences” that you are worried about. Like with the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act). It was a good idea but too broad. Now we have lawsuits by narcoleptics who get turned down for jobs as truck drivers or quadriplegics who get turned down for jobs tossing packages around…………
Or the same problems gay couples have with wills even though they have been drawn up legally. “Straight” family members come in challenge and get everything tossed because of a t that wasn’t crossed right or something.
Time to go. Later.
They BOTH suck
April 19th, 2012
1:58 pm
“And btw, I’ve made this case at least twice before. It seems some of you have collective amnesia about that”
The Grand Pu Bah…… arbitrator of all that is right…….. in his mind
Dude….. you need to chill sometimes. While we probably agree on many issues…… you are not the end all of end all on any given issue
But you have pizazz……. That can be a good thing
276 more days
April 19th, 2012
1:58 pm
Oscar
April 19th, 2012
1:06 pm
Adam
Yes, I missed it, but went back and found it. pasted below. I vaguelyI remember hearing about this when it came out.
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=4519
Oscar, Did you happen to see the period they were talking about, duh, not too many Democratic runners for the POTUS, but there were a lot of the Republicans, kinda like that was where the news was
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
1:59 pm
Adam,
Wrong sir. My post has not one but numerous articles on media bias. You only read one. You gotta lotta reading to do. You only had one study which is a computer based study. The first one not only didn’t show any conservative bias but actually proved my point more so than yours.
But here’s a point from doggone which is particularly comical.
“Yep, that’s the one that gets quoted every time this subject comes up…again. That does not prove NEWS bias. Only slanted NEWS stories would prove NEWS bias…and I have yet to see anyone come up with a study that found slanted NEWS stories”
Yes. Of course. And folks like Doggone and Adam actually believe that one’s bias never creeps into their reporting. Never happens folks. Ever. That’s just too funny. If you guys believe that then you probably believe in the tooth fairy. Thanks for the laugh Adam and Doggone.
Fred ™
April 19th, 2012
2:01 pm
No input for you on tax policy. However, if you can tell me what Cox Communication shares are trading at today, I may give you a pass.
That is TOO easy. Shares are trading for whatever price I can talk Barbara Cox Anthony and Anne Cox Chambers to sell me stock at.
They BOTH suck
April 19th, 2012
2:01 pm
Out for a few hours…………
Adam………….. keep up the effort just don’t get so excited that you hyperventilate
saywhat?
April 19th, 2012
2:01 pm
Recon 0311 2533
April 19th, 2012
1:48 pm
“Bernie goldberg = hack, enough said…”
mick, I would wager you never read his book.
_______________________________________
I think my niece colored in it though.
Adam
April 19th, 2012
2:02 pm
They BOTH suck: Adam if it is so pervasive one way or another why can’t you find an article from today
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/04/19/new-obama-plan-test-job-keep-unemployment-benefits/
The so-called Bridge to Work program
Am I restricted to just today or can I go all week?
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
2:02 pm
“Big oil companies get a 5800% return on every dollar they spend on Congress”
Yep. Textbook case of flawed and fallacious thinking.
Oscar
April 19th, 2012
2:02 pm
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
1:46 pm
—————-
I don’t really think anyone is intentionally biased in their reporting. People report what they see. And we all see things as influenced by our own bias. Whether something is biased or not depends on your point of view.
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
2:02 pm
“Yes. Of course. And folks like Doggone and Adam actually believe that one’s bias never creeps into their reporting. Never happens folks. Ever.”
What about editorial bias? News reporters have editors, do they not?
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
2:05 pm
“People report what they see. And we all see things as influenced by our own bias. Whether something is biased or not depends on your point of view.”
But the claim is not that “some people reporting the news are biased”…the claim is that the NEWS MEDIA are biased. No exceptions. There’s no proof that it is anywhere near as pervasive as that claim says.
Adam
April 19th, 2012
2:05 pm
Thulsa: My post has not one but numerous articles on media bias. You only read one.
You only posted from one article. You make no reference to any others. So, nice try.
Logical Dude
April 19th, 2012
2:05 pm
Adam: I did read the article, as you can see from my complete takedown here:
http://www.leftrazoredge.com/2012/01/26/politifact-is-no-longer-relevant/ I’ll take your apology on your statement any time you’re ready.
Thanks for the link. You probably should have posted THIS link instead of the politifact link.
I misread what your point was, since you only posted a link. and at the politifact link, they don’t explicitly say near the top that the headline is false, only an easy to miss “pants on fire” graphic.
I apologize for reading too much into your posting only a link, instead of an actual statement about the link.
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
2:05 pm
stands for decibels,
And going by your logic if every newspaper and tv outlet was run by acknowedged communist party members then you probably believe they would present unbiased news stories on capitalism don’tcha? To deny that they don’t inject their own biases into reporting on even a small scale is nothing short of hilarious. Gawd that’s funny.
Fred ™
April 19th, 2012
2:06 pm
Are you crapping me Adam? You are using FOX.COM to ‘prove” a lack of left wing media bias?
Just damn. There went ALL hope of rational discussion. Geez, maybe I should post Huff as a rebuttal…….. oh wait, I’m not that stupid…….
My Party has ALL the answers. Your party is full of poopyheads! (formerly That Black Guy)
April 19th, 2012
2:06 pm
Paul
April 19th, 2012
10:38 am
godless heathen
“I’ve heard about Romney and his dog story, but where did this about Obama eating a dog come from?”
From MadeUpOutrage, Inc.
___________________________________________________________________________
And with the Help of BOTH sides they are realizing RECORD profits.
stands for decibels
April 19th, 2012
2:07 pm
The so-called Bridge to Work program
har. “From the so-called ‘President’…” one expects to read.
I’ve ingested unhealthy doses of fox news channel’s supposed “straight news”, pre- prime-time programming over the years. Used to tune in while using a gym’s treadmills mid-day.
More recently, I watched some of Fox & Friends at some diner counter where it was playing. These days, the eye-rolling and mocking tone whenever they cite an Administration initiative is pretty palpable.
And they’re entitled to do it; that’s fine, knock yerselves out. Just don’t claim to be fair and balanced.
Peadawg
April 19th, 2012
2:07 pm
“Adam,
Wrong sir. My post has not one but numerous articles on media bias. You only read one. You gotta lotta reading to do.”
Not sure what y’all are arguing about but it pretty well documented that Adam has reading comprehension problems. So don’t go too hard on ‘em, Thulsa.
stands for decibels
April 19th, 2012
2:09 pm
To deny that they don’t inject their own biases into reporting on even a small scale
dude. Reporters don’t run media conglomerates, ‘k?
and the biases these guys/gals inject general include a hypersensitivity to accusations of liberal bias, which leads to a whole lotta equivalency given to climate change deniers and suchlike.
Adam
April 19th, 2012
2:10 pm
Logical Dude: Accepted. I thought I was pretty clear on what my point was, but I do accept that I wasn’t.
Basically, the entire thing was
1) define what Republicans think a job bill is and what Democrats think a jobs bill is
2) Take a side – The Republican version of what a jobs bill is, is correct, the Democrat version is wrong
3) Make a rating based on taking that side.
stands for decibels
April 19th, 2012
2:11 pm
general include shoulda been “generally include.” or “General Lee include”.
and I *gotta* leave this time-suck. Later, maybe, if Jay’s got clean sheetz.
Adam
April 19th, 2012
2:11 pm
Fred: You are using FOX.COM to ‘prove” a lack of left wing media bias?
They BOTH suck was asking for an example of a current news article that had a slant. I found one. What’s the problem?
Mick
April 19th, 2012
2:11 pm
stands@2:09
I concur with that analysis…
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
2:11 pm
Adam,
No sir. I’ll go back and check but the link should have been posted there which enumerates various other studies and surveys going back decades. Nevertheless here it is again.
http://archive.mrc.org/biasbasics/biasbasics3.asp
Adam
April 19th, 2012
2:13 pm
Peadawg: Well documented? Show me said documentation. And btw, simply having people *assert* it isn’t good enough.
Adam
April 19th, 2012
2:15 pm
Thulsa: There are studies going back at least that far that also show conservative bias. However, my major point is that RECENTLY (and you can go back and double check my posts all about this today to make sure I am not moving goal posts) the media is more conservative than liberal. And that people who immediately reject this notion are conditioned to do so because of the years of hearing “liberal media bias” as a buzz phrase.
Fred ™
April 19th, 2012
2:15 pm
and I *gotta* leave this time-suck. Later, maybe, if Jay’s got clean sheetz.
Truer word have never been spoken lol. You come on to make one comment and the next thing you know you’ve been reading and commenting for an hour or more……. and you realize how much time has been sucked away.
LOL Maybe the AJC could change the name here to Jay’s Time Suck……………
BADA BING
April 19th, 2012
2:16 pm
Missing Dog
Washington DC Area
Last Seen In the 1500-1700 Blocks, Pennsylvania Ave.
Reward
276 more days
April 19th, 2012
2:16 pm
When are you libs going to stop attacking Romney for how he spends his money and start attacking O’Bama for the way he spends your money?
Peadawg
April 19th, 2012
2:17 pm
BADA BING
April 19th, 2012
2:16 pm
“Get back in that pot!!!”
Adam
April 19th, 2012
2:18 pm
Thulsa:
Further studies on the bias:
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=12
98 article on the liberal media claim:
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2447
I am sure there is more, but like I said it’s hard to find data on this from multiple outlets since there’s more money in just playing to the pre-existing bias that there’s a “liberal media bias.”
Mick
April 19th, 2012
2:18 pm
**When are you libs**
As sson as you cons realize that congress holds the purse strings…
Oscar
April 19th, 2012
2:19 pm
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
2:05 pm
“People report what they see. And we all see things as influenced by our own bias. Whether something is biased or not depends on your point of view.”
But the claim is not that “some people reporting the news are biased”…the claim is that the NEWS MEDIA are biased. No exceptions. There’s no proof that it is anywhere near as pervasive as that claim says.
______________
Then I would agree with you. That kind of claim would be false. And would be a biased claim.
F. Sinkwich
April 19th, 2012
2:19 pm
This meme never gets old. It’s about the dog:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEBN8wOKjMo
Adam
April 19th, 2012
2:21 pm
Doggone, Oscar: I do happen to think there is always bias in the media. However, that bias is not always based on the same straight line. For example, a news story may have bias that has nothing to do with left vs. right politics. It might also be very slight. But when it comes to political news, and political guests, and so on, the general media has been shown to lean right, rather than left, recently.
Becky
April 19th, 2012
2:25 pm
You know, Romney wishes the tale of how the family dog was strapped to a roof would just go away but don’t bet on it. This one act defines his lack of character and compassion. And Miss Ann allowed it as well.
There is no copmparison to what they did to a dog riding in the back of a pickup truck or sticking their head out the window. Your dog’s vet does not condone this either.
As far as President Obama eating a dog-he was 8 years old! and considered a delicacy where he was.
BADA BING
April 19th, 2012
2:25 pm
What do you call a POTUS with a dog?
A Vegetarian.
What do you call a POTUS with 4 dogs?
A Rancher.
jj
April 19th, 2012
2:26 pm
Fred, sorry that you are unable to enjoy a little humor. Based on your point of view and writng style it is clear you are well educated and articulate in espousing your views, it’s just too bad your sense of humor was removed somewhere along the line.
Have a good day.
Becky
April 19th, 2012
2:26 pm
And the dog jokes are not remotely funny but I guess simple minds for simple thoughts. I’m looking at you bada bing
Peadawg
April 19th, 2012
2:26 pm
Personally, Becky, I wish BOTH stories would go away. Let’s focus on the REAL issues, shall we?
Becky
April 19th, 2012
2:27 pm
Peadawg-I must hold my elected officials to higher standards than you.
276 more days
April 19th, 2012
2:28 pm
Wonder if O’Bama has ever had a Three Dog Night?
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
2:28 pm
Well now lets see. Jake Tapper of ABC openly acknowledging that Obama enjoyed a tilt from the news media.
But since I’m taking you to school Adam I might as well do it with the same guy who headed the Harvard center for journalism excellence from you know- that same computer link that you showed earlier. I got news for ya young man. He’s singing a whooooooole different tune here on media bias. It was so bad that even the liberal PBS acknowledged it.
One of the things that is the backdrop behind this is, in the first six weeks of this general election phase, in our estimate, 78 percent of the stories that we’ve studied have featured Obama as a significant presence in the stories, and 51 percent have featured McCain. Obviously, stories can feature both candidates in a significant way. That’s a 50 percent advantage for Barack Obama. Exposure doesn’t guarantee success, but it is a necessary ingredient to success, and Obama has more of that ingredient right now. And this trip helps, even if its questions are tough, if you handle those questions effectively.
In response to a probe by Woodruff about the responsibility of journalists to equalize coverage of the two candidates, Rosenstiel argued that even if Obama is more newsworthy than McCain, the media must be careful to not tilt the situation in favor of Obama:
I think there is a problem potentially if the press creates what is, in effect, an un-level playing field. Unlike other news events, the news media are, in a sense, the job interviewers on behalf of the public in a presidential campaign. And I think we have to worry, as journalists, if we disadvantage one candidate consistently over a long period of time.
But I do think that, even if newsworthiness justifies a lot of this, there is another concern that journalists have to be worried about, which is, in effect, tilting the situation so that McCain doesn’t have as fair a shot.
And, ending the segment on the note that Obama is getting unprecedented treatment by the media, Tyndall declared:
The phenomenon that we’re talking about here is not that McCain is being ignored, that he’s not able to get his word out in the mainstream media. It’s that this thing, Barack Obama, is head and shoulders a different category of treatment of a candidate that we’ve ever seen before. So it’s not that McCain is getting the short end of the stick. It’s that — you know, Obama is not getting a stick. He’s getting a different category. He’s getting a log, not a stick.
Now that even PBS has acknowledged the glowing media treatment of Obama, will the rest of the mainstream media follow suit? And more importantly, will they begin to be more fair and balanced, or will they stick to their gushing ways to help their candidate of choice?
Remember that name Rosenstiel Adam???
Reiterating the findings of a recent Project for Excellence in Journalism study, noted by NewsBusters’ Editor Matthew Sheffield, Rosenstiel also explained that Obama has received significantly more coverage than John McCain and, accordingly, the media have given Obama an advantage
Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/lyndsi-thomas/2008/07/28/pbs-acknowledges-media-bias-campaign-08#ixzz1sQhVCMBc
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2012/jan/23/0123-fp4-tilting-on-the-scales-a-little-bit/
Adam
April 19th, 2012
2:29 pm
Personally, Becky, I wish BOTH stories would go away. Let’s focus on the REAL issues, shall we?
I’m with ya there.
Joe Hussein Mama
April 19th, 2012
2:29 pm
Doom — “The link at the bottom of the page details survey after survey after survey after survey of the media going back decades showing a ridiculous tilt towards Dem candidates that aint even close. These are numerous surveys conducted across Washington correspondents, national major newspapers, the major networks and television meda, etc. Its not even close. What manner of an abject fool actually believes the media has a conservative bias?”
Logical fallacy. Cum hoc ergo propter hoc, more commonly known as ‘correlation is not causation.’
The fact that someone voted for or supported a political candidate does not in any way establish that their reporting is or will necessarily be skewed in any specific political direction.
Seamus
April 19th, 2012
2:29 pm
I had fun on vacation. Don’t know what happened to that Obama dog. He sort of disappeared.
Peadawg
April 19th, 2012
2:30 pm
“Peadawg-I must hold my elected officials to higher standards than you.” – I never said either one was right in what they did. Eating dog and strapping a dog to the top of your car are both sick.
I just said that the dog issues distract from the economy, job, taxes, etc.
Adam
April 19th, 2012
2:31 pm
Thulsa: Jake Tapper of ABC openly acknowledging that Obama enjoyed a tilt from the news media.
Funny, that’s not what Pew Research found more recently: http://www.journalism.org/analysis_report/cr
Remember now, McCain vs Obama was in 2008. I’m talking about SINCE then.
BADA BING
April 19th, 2012
2:33 pm
Both of them have a dog story because they are trying to get a leg up on each other.
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
2:34 pm
“dude. Reporters don’t run media conglomerates, ‘k?”
stands for decibels,
Dude. CEOs of media conglomerates do not sit in the effing newsroom deciding what stories to lead with, what stories to run, etc. Jeez. The reporters, editors, etc. do all that. Do you think the CEO of Cox enterprises comes and tells Jay or the AJC news editors or editorial board what to write and what to cover? Seriously?
Oscar
April 19th, 2012
2:37 pm
Adam
April 19th, 2012
2:21 pm
_____
The only general news show I watch of the Sunday morning shows is the one hosted now by George
Stephanopoulos. I can’t say that it is biased. It seems to be represented by people from both, or all sides.
I did read that link you posted that indicates recent guest shows show a conservative male point of view. Don’t think that is true of George’s.
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
2:38 pm
“Eating dog and strapping a dog to the top of your car are both sick.”
Why? Why is eating dog any different from eating rabbit, or cow, or chicken? And why is putting a dog in a crate on the roof of a car any different from putting a dog in a crate in the back of an uncovered pick-up truck?
Joe Hussein Mama
April 19th, 2012
2:40 pm
Doom — “Yes. Of course. And folks like Doggone and Adam actually believe that one’s bias never creeps into their reporting. Never happens folks. Ever.”
Nobody’s saying that. They’re saying that while it may very well happen, you haven’t demonstrated it. It’s a long road from ‘common sense says this is going to happen sometimes’ to “ZOMG LOOK RIGHT THERE, I FOUND IT.”
And you’re acting like one is automatically equal to the other.
Seamus
April 19th, 2012
2:43 pm
Doggone – People eat dogs? Is that what happened to that poor Obama mutt? I’m shocked. SHOCKED.
Peadawg
April 19th, 2012
2:43 pm
“Why? Why is eating dog any different from eating rabbit, or cow, or chicken? And why is putting a dog in a crate on the roof of a car any different from putting a dog in a crate in the back of an uncovered pick-up truck?”
To a lot of people (including me) dogs are part your family. Would I eat a family member? Um no.
Putting a dog in a crate on the top, back, front, side, etc. of a car/truck/suv is really dangerous imo. One bad bump, one bad turn and BAM the crate can pop out of the back or off the top.
That’s the last I’m saying about that. Wanna talk about real issues? Let’s do it.
BADA BING
April 19th, 2012
2:45 pm
I wish that the 2 candidates would “Sit” down together, “Shake” hands and openly discuss the issues. We could lick our wounds and begin the heeling process, find out what is really gnawing at us.
Mick
April 19th, 2012
2:46 pm
doom
**Dude. CEOs of media conglomerates do not sit in the effing newsroom deciding what stories to lead with, what stories to run, etc. Jeez. The reporters, editors, etc. do all that**
Ever heard of roger ailes? He kinda does all that…
Adam
April 19th, 2012
2:48 pm
Oscar: I agree that some either don’t have a bias or can be perceived to not have a bias, by and large. But I do see studies that indicate a more conservative slant. I also don’t see a correlation between “liberal media bias,” if correct, and public opinion following that. Seems to me that if it IS true, the opposite occurs. I happen to think it’s not true, and that news outlets have tacked too far to the right in an attempt to avoid the “liberal media” label, whether or not it is true.
Joe Hussein Mama
April 19th, 2012
2:48 pm
Doggone — “Why? Why is eating dog any different from eating rabbit, or cow, or chicken?”
We were warned about the possibility of encountering dog meat before going to Korea, and some of us asked the KATUSAs (Korean soldiers who are attached to American units to help in linguistic and cultural ways) about it. The KATUSAs looked a little uncomfortable, but they admitted that yes, some Korean people eat dog, but that it was mostly the ‘older country people’ who still did it. One KATUSA corporal told me that among those who still ate dog, a *yellow* dog was the most prized.
So far as I know, nobody in my unit found or encountered dog meat while we were over there. If anyone did, they must not have said anything about it.
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
2:48 pm
“To a lot of people (including me) dogs are part your family. Would I eat a family member? Um no”
Nor would I, but I don’t expect everyone in the world to hold to MY cultural norms. I eat cow after all, and they are sacred to others who would be shocked at eating them.
“One bad bump, one bad turn and BAM the crate can pop out of the back or off the top”
Not if they are properly tied down, they don’t. And riding in a crate is much safer, overall, than letting a dog ride loose in the car.
Oscar
April 19th, 2012
2:49 pm
Tieing a dog in an open air crate on top of your car for a twelve hour drive is poor judgment. The dog sufferered acute diarrrehia and Mitt pulled over and hosed the dog and the car down and kept going. When released the dog ran away and kept running away until Mitt gave it away. Clearly, the dog suffered trama and Mitt is guilty of cruelty to animals.
Man like that does not make reasonable decisions and should not be elected president.
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
2:49 pm
“However, my major point is that RECENTLY (and you can go back and double check my posts all about this today to make sure I am not moving goal posts) the media is more conservative than liberal.’
Nope. I read your links and quite frankly the first link you posted stated essentially nothing that really supported your claim.
That brings me to your 2nd link- the computerized study from the pew research center for journalistic excellence at Harvard. Did you take the time to read the methodology of how that study is conducted? It is the only credible study that shows that Obama has received negative press? And do you know why? Its actually pretty simple if you think about it. Given the sad state of the economy, high unemployment, high deficit and debt spending, etc. all of these horrible hard news stories are going to count as automatic negative stories towards Barack Obama. Doesn’t matter that they are true. Or that they are just the everyday hard news.
And as I just pointed out to you the same guy in charge of that study is the same guy who proffered the study I just showed above where Obama enjoyed a huge press advantage in the election against McCain. Good grief people in the media didn’t even try to dispute the fact that the news coverage was biased.
Terry Moran ABC news- Obama “lowered” himself into taking the office of the presidency. Sure he did Terry. The office was beneath him huh?
The editor of Newsweek who wrote that Obama was “sorta like a God, looking down on it all”
Uh huh. Someone tell God looking down on us to do something about this horrific economic recovery.
No bias there huh Adam?
Or Chris “I get a thrill up my leg when Obama speaks” Matthews.
Speaking of God I saw where Michelle Obama stated in a passage eerily close to a biblical passage that we’ve been brought out of darkness and into the sunlight yesterday. Be sure to tell Obama um, I meant to say God, that I appreciate him bringing me out of the darkness and into his sunlight.
Adam
April 19th, 2012
2:50 pm
BADA BING: As much as I dislike the dog stories, I do find your puns hilarious
Mick
April 19th, 2012
2:50 pm
Dog, iguana, gator, horse, cow, what’s the freakin problem here?
Joe Hussein Mama
April 19th, 2012
2:52 pm
Mick — “Dog, iguana, gator, horse, cow, what’s the freakin problem here?”
NOM NOM NOM
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
2:53 pm
“The dog sufferered acute diarrrehia and Mitt pulled over and hosed the dog and the car down and kept going.”
And that can happen no matter where you put the crate, or even if the dog is riding loose in the car.
” When released the dog ran away and kept running away until Mitt gave it away.”
And you have proof that he did not have that problem before the ride? If the dog persistently ran away, it was much more likely to be a lifelong, ingrained habit that had nothing to do with the car ride.
“Clearly, the dog suffered trama and Mitt is guilty of cruelty to animals”
Nope, not so clear. You are correlating two things that you have no proof were related to each other. I had a dog that lived to be 15 years old who LOVED to ride in the car, in a crate, and he also had an intermiittent problem with running away. There’s no proof that the car ride had anything to do with the dog’s running away problem. Some dogs are just wanderer’s by nature.
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
2:55 pm
Oscar,
Enough about tying his crate to the roof of the car. Sheesh. Should we start complaining about the thousands if not millions of men in pickup trucks who’ve driven around with their dogs in the bed of the pickup- open to the air and open to flying 100 feet in case of an accident? Or the folks who drive with their dogs in car where the dog is completely unsecured. Millions of folks do it every day. And ya know what? If they crash fifi goes flying headfirst through that windshield. In terms of overall safety that dog attached to the top of the roof safe in a confined crate was 10 times safer than the standard by which millions of people drive around every day with their dogs completely unsecured in their cars or trucks.
Mick
April 19th, 2012
2:57 pm
doom
What can you do? It’s dog eat dog kinda day…
Joe Hussein Mama
April 19th, 2012
2:58 pm
I can haz catburger?
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
3:02 pm
“The fact that someone voted for or supported a political candidate does not in any way establish that their reporting is or will necessarily be skewed in any specific political direction.”
Joe Mama,
And if you believe that then I’ld like to sell you my beachfront condo in Omaha. To posit such nonsense strains credulity sir. Cheap too on that oceanfront condo!
Mick
April 19th, 2012
3:05 pm
**To posit such nonsense strains credulity sir**
There’s been an epidemic of that sort going around lately…
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
3:05 pm
“To posit such nonsense strains credulity sir”
So you totally and completely reject the standard that a reporter can be unbiased in their reporting? If that is true you should have NO TROUBLE AT ALL giving us hundreds of examples of biased news reporting.
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
3:06 pm
Mick,
A dog eat dog day! Tee hee. When i was a child I do vaguely remember the laotians down the street with the kids chasing a dog trying to beat and kill it for dinner. Nasty. But in the end just a cultural difference. My mom was telling me about a church lady friend of hers whose relatives out in the country still hunt and eat squireels which are just damn rodents. Nasty. I thought mom was going to lose it talking about it.
getalife
April 19th, 2012
3:06 pm
willard tortured the crap out of Seamus.
Oscar
April 19th, 2012
3:06 pm
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
2:55 pm
______
I grew up in the countryin the old days. Spent many a mile riding in the open back of the pick up truck in the open air. Enjoyed it. That was before seat belts were required. Used to drive around with dogs back there also.
Don’t see being tied to the roof in a crate though. Think that would be a different experience altogether.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
April 19th, 2012
3:07 pm
Well dropping $49 million on pay here and there can sure put a crease in the bottom line. But I reckon a person is entitled to spend money the way they want to. And corporations are persons, right? The Supreme Court says so. How’d you like if the guvmint stepped in and told you that you were paying too much for a car?
Besides, if you can buy a election by making unlimited contributions, seems to me you ought to be able to buy the person you want to run your corporation by give him unlimited pay.
As for the stockholders,
F them and the horse they rode in onI reckon they can gripe a little. Long as they don’t get in the way of the big shots running the place like they want to run it.Have a good p.m. everybody.
Becky
April 19th, 2012
3:09 pm
I think the best vp candidate for the cruel mittens is michael vick. They have the same attitude towards dogs and they have about the same intellect. Vick is almost as rich as Mittens too so they have even more in common.
Mick
April 19th, 2012
3:10 pm
doom
When I was in NYC, one of the best pics I took was of a calico cat sitting defiantly in front of a chinese restaurant off canal street – classic…
Oscar
April 19th, 2012
3:11 pm
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
2:53 pm
_______
Surely you are not suggesting that my personal bias against Romney is showing up in my reporting of the incident are you. Gads what a thought.
Doggone/GA
April 19th, 2012
3:12 pm
“Don’t see being tied to the roof in a crate though. Think that would be a different experience altogether.”
Not if it’s properly done and the dog is acclimated to being in a crate.
Joe Hussein Mama
April 19th, 2012
3:14 pm
Doom — “And if you believe that then I’ld like to sell you my beachfront condo in Omaha. To posit such nonsense strains credulity sir. Cheap too on that oceanfront condo!”
A reporter’s political affiliation does not necessarily mean that his reporting is automatically going to be biased in favor of his affiliation. Look at Mike Wallace, for crying out loud.
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
3:14 pm
“So you totally and completely reject the standard that a reporter can be unbiased in their reporting?”
I didn’t say that. Just saying that their biases and prejudices seep into their reporting. Maybe not all the time but certainly some of the time. And even if its not conscious it can happen unconsciously.
“If that is true you should have NO TROUBLE AT ALL giving us hundreds of examples of biased news reporting.”
Already did that ma’am. I’ve already given a handful of small examples with terry moran of ABC news, the newsweek editor, I could give a Dianne Sawyer example on global warming where she was blatantly trying to push the weather man into stating those tornadoes that hit Joplin,MO. and Tuscalossa, AL were the result of global warming. Poor weather guy was about shocked. And I posted an example above from the source that Adam thinks makes his case- the Pew research center, that showed incredibly lopsided coverage during the last presidential election in favor of Obama. Hell I think several of us even remember Obama being interviewed by Oreilly or someone where he tacitly acknowledged preferable media treatment. If you want to see several hundred more go to mrc.com. They’re there. And when October comes around and the overwhelming majority of major newspapers around the country all make Obama their endorsed candidate you’ll still be sitting there claiming there’s no media bias. Won’t you?
Becky
April 19th, 2012
3:14 pm
Doggone-can you not understand the poor dog was traumatized by the entire episode? A 12 hour car ride in freezing weather only to be hosed down by your owner? It is truly sickening.
Oblama
April 19th, 2012
3:15 pm
Jay – maybe subscribers to the AJC should have a say so as to who AJC hires and how much they are paid? Do you really want to go there? Stock holders, as individuals, own a small piece of a company. That does not mean they have the intelligence, knowledge or experience to give advice on how to run the company or pay it’s employees. As usual, another effort of socialists to destroy what has made this country the best place in the world to live. I have lived in Europe (Italy, Spain & Belgium) and in Australia (Sidney) and in Brazil. There is no place better than the U.S.A. Jay – I would have thought that by now you would be praising our Governor for the recent success he has had in bringing Baxter International (1,500 jobs in bio-science), Toyota, Carter’s (clothing manufacturing ) and Caterpillar (1,000 + jobs) to Georgia during this difficult economic time – with the long continued flat nation wide employment rate. Can’t bring yourself to give a non Dem credit for a good job can you?
BADA BING
April 19th, 2012
3:15 pm
TV Listings
The Food Network
Thursday April 19
8:00 Lassie
9:00 The Westminster Dog Show
11:00 Rin Tin Tin
Joe Hussein Mama
April 19th, 2012
3:16 pm
Doom — “I didn’t say that. Just saying that their biases and prejudices seep into their reporting. Maybe not all the time but certainly some of the time. And even if its not conscious it can happen unconsciously.”
I don’t reject that. I’m just saying that you haven’t *demonstrated* any cases of it.
As I said earlier, it’s a long way from ‘common sense says that this should happen sometimes’ to ‘ZOMG LOOK RIGHT THERE AT IT,’ but you’re acting like they’re next-door neighbors.
Becky
April 19th, 2012
3:17 pm
My scroll finger is working overtime today. Feel free to scroll past my posts as well.
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
3:19 pm
“A reporter’s political affiliation does not necessarily mean that his reporting is automatically going to be biased in favor of his affiliation”
Not automatically of course. But I think it seeps in there. And when the numbers are so lopsided in favor of liberal journalists i think that incremental edge in conscious or unconscious bias starts to add up. And in some cases such as with the newsweek editor, terry moran, Dan Rather, the bias just takes on a life of its own with the craziness of what they say or do. I mean Dan Rather? Good grief the guy tried to sway a presidential election with a completely bogus story weeks before the election. And then CBS called the election in florida in favor of Gore, driving away several thousand Republican voters in the central panhandle on the way home from work who didn’t bother going to vote since the election had already been called. How and why they called such a close election to Gore is nothing short of shameful.
Thulsa Doom
April 19th, 2012
3:20 pm
excuse me the western panhandle of florida
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 19th, 2012
3:21 pm
Jay – maybe subscribers to the AJC should have a say so as to who AJC hires and how much they are paid?
False equivalence alert.
“Customers” does not equal “owners.”