Catholic bishop likens Obama to Stalin, Hitler
This is quite a hysterical screed, and by hysterical I do not mean that it is funny. It is not funny in the least.
It is hysterical because is driven by hysteria. It is also historically ignorant and irresponsible.
The speaker is Bishop Daniel R. Jenky, head of a Catholic diocese in Illinois. Here’s what he had to say during a weekend Mass:
“The Church survived barbarian invasions. The Church survived wave after wave of Jihads. The Church survived the age of revolution. The Church survived Nazism and Communism. And in the power of the resurrection, the Church will survive the hatred of Hollywood, the malice of the media, and the mendacious wickedness of the abortion industry.
The Church will survive the entrenched corruption and sheer incompetence of our Illinois state government, and even the calculated disdain of the president of the United States, his appointed bureaucrats in HHS, and of the current majority of the federal Senate.
May God have mercy especially on the souls of those politicians who pretend to be Catholic in church, but in their public lives, rather like Judas Iscariot, betray Jesus Christ by how they vote and how they willingly cooperate with intrinsic evil.
As Christians we must love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us, but as Christians we must also stand up for what we believe and be ready to fight to defend our faith. The days in which we live now require heroic Catholicism, not casual Catholicism. We can no longer be Catholics by accident, but instead be Catholics by conviction.
In our own families, in our parishes, where we live and where we work – like that very first apostolic generation – we must be bold witnesses to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. We must be a fearless army of Catholic men, ready to give everything we have for the Lord, who gave everything for our salvation.
Remember that in past history other governments have tried to force Christians to huddle and hide only within the confines of their churches like those first disciples before the Resurrection locked together in the Upper Room.
In the late 19th century, Bismark waged his “Kulturkamf,” a culture war against the Roman Catholic Church, closing down every Catholic school and hospital, convent and monastery in Imperial Germany. Clemenceau, nicknamed “the priest eater,” tried the same thing in France in the first decade of the 20th Century.
Hitler and Stalin, at their better moments, would just barely tolerate some churches remaining open, but would not tolerate any competition with the state in education, social services, and health care.
In clear violation of our First Amendment rights, President Obama – with his radical, pro-abortion and extreme secularist agenda, now seems intent on following a similar path.
Now things have come to such a pass in our beloved country that this is a battle that we could lose, but before the awesome judgment seat of Almighty God this is not a battle where any believing Catholic may remain neutral.”
I was raised to believe that religious leaders deserve a great deal of respect and even deference, and I hope I have raised my children with those same values. Jenky, however, deserves neither respect nor deference, because he is talking like a fool.
After all, only a fool would try to equate insurance coverage for contraception to the brutalities that were inflicted upon tens of millions of people by the likes of Stalin and Hitler. The bishop’s comments are deeply insulting and disrespectful, less to President Obama than to the many victims of the tyrants to whom Jenky attempts to link him. His comparison trivializes true human horror.
St. Peter, after all, was crucified upside down by the Romans, who also fed Christians to the lions. Hitler attempted the physical eradication of an entire religious tradition. Stalin starved millions to death in an attempt to force them to worship the state rather than a God of their own choosing.
And “President Obama, with his radical, pro-abortion and extreme secularist agenda, now seems intent on following a similar path”?
The suggestion is obscene.
(Given the bishop’s claims, it is also relevant to point out that the Catholic Church did not fight heroically against the evils of Naziism. To a large degree, it legitimized, collaborated and cooperated with it. While individual clerics of conscience sometimes spoke and acted with heroism, the church as an institution did not. It stood in silent acceptance of the murder of Jews and voluntarily surrendered its moral credibility. By that behavior, it did no worse than many other human institutions in that time and place. But it also did no better.)
While Jenky has seemed to abandon all sense of proportion, it’s important to keep in mind what’s really at issue here. The administration does not propose and has never proposed that the Catholic Church or other religious groups be forced to provide insurance coverage for contraception to their staff. Church staff members are expressly excluded from such a mandate out of respect for religious liberty.
The law does, however, require that church-affiliated institutions that perform secular functions in the secular world — schools, universities, hospitals, etc. — provide such coverage to their staff, many of whom are members of a different faith, just as every other provider of such services must do.
You would never know it from the hysteria offered by Jenky, but many Catholic-affiliated institutions have been offering contraceptive coverage to their secular staff for decades without controversy. For example, Georgetown University, which drew national attention through the Sandra Fluke controversy, is a Jesuit college that already offers contraception coverage to its faculty and staff, but not to its students. Many states, including Georgia, have also had similar laws on the books mandating such coverage for decades, again without controversy.
The administration proposal is also well within the constitutional confines established by the Supreme Court. As Justice Antonin Scalia, himself a stalwart Catholic, wrote in “Employment Division v. Smith” (1990):
“We have never held that an individual’s religious beliefs excuse him from compliance with an otherwise valid law prohibiting conduct that the state is free to regulate. On the contrary, the record of more than a century of our free exercise jurisprudence contradicts that proposition.”
Jenky, on the other hand, argues that church law must take precedence over civil law even when the church is operating in the secular arena, and he seems eager to engage in battle to ensure that happens. He would apparently classify Scalia as just another Judas Iscariot, ready to “betray Jesus Christ by how they vote and how they willingly cooperate with intrinsic evil.”
As I said, he has exposed himself as a fool.
– Jay Bookman
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803 comments Add your comment
Recon 0311 2533
April 18th, 2012
4:19 pm
Joe, you’re not going to refute much with Wiki references. Did you know that South Korea has surpassed the United States in the percentage of practicing Christians and you say, so what. That’s kind of what I’m saying about your nugget. What your Wiki link is talking about is a form of Confucianism.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 18th, 2012
4:19 pm
The love fest among the liberal regulars here and hate they spew is just too much for me to stomach.
Toodles.
jconservative
April 18th, 2012
4:20 pm
“We have never held that an individual’s religious beliefs excuse him from compliance with an otherwise valid law prohibiting conduct that the state is free to regulate.” Scalia in Smith.
The Smith case does not apply to the current HHS cases now in the federal court system; Ave Maria University v. Sebelius, EWTN v. Sebelius, Colorado Christian University v. Sebelius and Belmont Abbey College v. Sebelius.
The Smith case upheld a law prohibiting the consumption of a drug declared illegal by government.
The cases now proceeding challenge an administrative ruling by HHS to require individual members of certain religions to do certain acts considered repugnant to that religion. There is no challenge to an existing law. They challenge an administrative decision by HHS that has granted exceptions to the decision to other institutions.
The hope for the christian churches is the Hosanna-Tabor case from Oct 2011 that held 9-0 that an administrative decision by the EEOC could not override a church’s constitutional right to free exercise in the selection of its own ministers.
This is not an easy dilemma to resolve constitutionally. The Court has ““never held that an individual’s religious beliefs excuse him from complying with an otherwise valid law prohibiting conduct that a State is free to regulate. To do otherwise would “permit every citizen to become a law unto himself.”
The 1st Amendment: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”
Christianity has always taught that one’s religion does not stop when one exits the church. Indeed, christianity teaches one’s religion should be practiced daily outside the church building. The HHS ruling prohibits the free exercise of religion outside the church building.
If the various Christian churches lose this constitutional fight they are left with the choice of dropping insurance for employees, closing those religious institutions that employee people or allowing the government to decide what a religion must teach to its believers.
In these particular cases the Catholic Church has taught that contraception and abortiion are sins from day one, some 1979 years. We now have the HHS deciding that no matter what churches teach, government has an overriding interest in making them provide contraceptives and aborticants
to their employees free of charge.
It will be interesting.
barking frog
April 18th, 2012
4:20 pm
grits
actually lightning is the
earth shooting at a cloud
to make it rain.
Paul
April 18th, 2012
4:21 pm
Pass the Cheese
“There is more mystery in the universe than we can conceive. All is not logic. “God is love.”
“That maybe the dumbest thing ive ever read.”
The idea one thinks he can conceive all the mysteries of the universe sounds like one of the most arrogant -
So…. care to explain the mysteries of the universe to us?
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
April 18th, 2012
4:21 pm
Mark Twain put it best
“Faith is believing what you know ain’t so,”
They BOTH suck
April 18th, 2012
4:21 pm
Yum Yum
This just for you
http://www.uaff.us/bush_moon.htm
There are a few with Nixon and Reagan as well
let me know if you would like to see more pic of your heroes hanging out with a cult leader named Reverend Moon
Old Goober
April 18th, 2012
4:23 pm
But alas I got some work to do and some folks to call back. Doomy out.
Translation: There are people out there to fleece and I gotta get to it.
Joseph
April 18th, 2012
4:23 pm
They BOTH suck:
How about Sharpton and Jackson.. The king race hustlers of our time… They have much influence over the dems….
Aquagirl
April 18th, 2012
4:24 pm
Seriously, why would anyone want to display such a degree of ignorance about military flight suits and survival gear?
And to do it for a lame photo-op that would land in the history books as a classic example of idiotic hubris? But enough about G.W. Bush, he’s gone thank goodness. No need to revisit such an embarrassing moment for our entire nation.
Joseph
April 18th, 2012
4:24 pm
I wanna know what kind of dog Obama ate…..
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
April 18th, 2012
4:24 pm
So…. care to explain the mysteries of the universe to us?
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/science.html
Go read that. Its a good place to start.
Notice you wont see God mentioned once.
They BOTH suck
April 18th, 2012
4:24 pm
“The love fest among the liberal regulars here and hate they spew is just too much for me to stomach.”
take care and be safe
Joe Hussein Mama
April 18th, 2012
4:25 pm
Recon — “Joe, before you can help me out or anyone else you’ll have to help yourself first.”
Sorry, buddy, but I’m already way ahead of you.
“Now it wasn’t my intent to suggest that all atheists are communists or to condemn atheism even though it is contrary to my beliefs”
I understand that.
“I merely pointed out that communists are religious non-believers.”
Not as a rule, no. Look at what I gave you about North Korea. And look at how religious practice practically *exploded* in the former Soviet republics after the USSR. broke up. Considering that the Soviet Union had been together for roughly 75 years, there couldn’t have been many people left alive who *remembered* religious practice from before the Communists came to power. So how do you explain the resurgence of religious expression and practice?
Simple. It never went away, it just went into hiding.
“I intended no offense to your belief as I believe that we’re all free to make our own choices.”
As I told you and one or two other posters last week, I’ve taken no offense. And atheism is a belief the same way that bald is a hair color.
I’m not angry at you, Recon, I just think that you have some mistaken notions about atheists and atheism. Any time you’d like to play Ask An Atheist, I’ll answer your questions.
Bruno
April 18th, 2012
4:25 pm
Organized religion is the only entity where all manner of ridiculous proclamations and falsehoods demand a protective wall be erected to shield it form serious inquiry.
Corey–You seem to be forgetting Anthropogenic Global Warming. Try raising any reasonable objections to the computer models used to drive this pseudo-science, and you’ll be charged with heresy by the Libs here.
barking frog
April 18th, 2012
4:25 pm
TBS
Rev Moon’s cult owns the
Washington Times often
quoted here.
Paul
April 18th, 2012
4:26 pm
Aquagirl
“And to do it for a lame photo-op that would land in the history books as a classic example of idiotic hubris?”
Leave the goalposts alone!
obamacouldcareless
April 18th, 2012
4:26 pm
Obama and the liberal Democrats are at war with Religion. The progressives are hate GOD.
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
April 18th, 2012
4:26 pm
The idea one thinks he can conceive all the mysteries of the universe sounds like one of the most arrogant –
Why ? Its just the natural world.
Scientist are discovering new things about the Universe everyday ….
and there isn’t a bible anywhere near them.
Joseph
April 18th, 2012
4:27 pm
Hootinanny Yum Yum:
It’s a joy really because they are too stupid to have a real intellectual conversation… They can only attack you personally because that’s all they got…
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
April 18th, 2012
4:29 pm
Corey–You seem to be forgetting Anthropogenic Global Warming. Try raising any reasonable objections to the computer models used to drive this pseudo-science, and you’ll be charged with heresy by the Libs here.
As you should be.
Climate change is an almost universally accepted fact by Scientists.
To think man has been spewing things into the atmospheres for hundreds of years now and that has had no effect whatsoever is pretty naive.
They BOTH suck
April 18th, 2012
4:29 pm
Joseph
They both have said some stupid things as well…… I was merely pointing out the Yum Yum that is one sided diatribe was merely BS if all one does not want to look in his own back yard……. If you noticed I didn’t run to defend Obama or Wright……….
PS. hated to do it but shot you down in flames downstairs……….. of course you couldn’t back up your 1st assertion so I played your game and knocked down your 2nd one as well
No big deal…. we all get things wrong from time to time and in some cases our pride will not allow us to admit it………
its all good
TaxPayer
April 18th, 2012
4:30 pm
That so-called bishop would do well to learn from the errors of his ways. He could always start with one of those confessionals and ask to be forgiven for his blatant lies for starters. Then again, I do recall other so-called men of the cloth attacking President Obama in the past so it’s not as though this is a one-time event. If what those people practice is what religion was meant to be or do, I want no part of it.
Paul
April 18th, 2012
4:30 pm
Cheesy, cheesy, cheesy….
If you didn’t take yourself so seriously it’d be funny.
You said it was stupid to think Man can’t understand the mysteries of he universe.
So I asked you to explain them.
Linking to an NSA site largely about describing, not explaining, is pretty lame.
If you can explain black holes, Stephen Hawking and a few other theoretical physicists would, I’m sure, love to have you explain to them where they’ve gone wrong the last 50 years.
Sometimes when you try to tear down others you just end up looking silly.
Joe Hussein Mama
April 18th, 2012
4:30 pm
T. Head — “somehow change history so that Hitler supported Christianity.”
It’s a matter of historical record that Hitler’s statements about religion and atheism were all over the map. The one thing that can truthfully be said about Hitler with respect to his views religion and atheism is that his actual views will probably never be known.
Personally, I think his publicly-expressed views were more a matter of manipulating the German people than anything else, and that instead of being atheist, Hitler was probably just using religion and religious expression as a tool.
They BOTH suck
April 18th, 2012
4:30 pm
barking frog
Oh I am fully aware of the Moonie Times
They BOTH suck
April 18th, 2012
4:32 pm
“It’s a joy really because they are too stupid to have a real intellectual conversation… They can only attack you personally because that’s all they got…”
How ironic……. calling people “stupid” as you accuse them of attacking someone personally
hahahahahaa
You are a funny dude
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 18th, 2012
4:33 pm
It’s a joy really because they are too stupid…
Followed by:
They can only attack you personally because that’s all they got…
Calling people “stupid” is a personal attack.
I loves me some irony in the afternoon.
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
April 18th, 2012
4:33 pm
“I wanna know what kind of dog Obama ate…”
He just ate them, not like he put them on top of his car. Give him a break.
Joe Hussein Mama
April 18th, 2012
4:34 pm
Recon — “Joe, you’re not going to refute much with Wiki references.”
I know. That’s why the second link *wasn’t* from Wiki.
“Did you know that South Korea has surpassed the United States in the percentage of practicing Christians and you say, so what.”
Right, so what? We were talking about NORTH Korea.
“That’s kind of what I’m saying about your nugget. What your Wiki link is talking about is a form of Confucianism.”
Listen carefully, Recon. Atheism does not include or subsume Confucianism. (laughing)
So thanks for the concession on that particular point!
Recon 0311 2533
April 18th, 2012
4:35 pm
Have to go pick up my daughter and take her to church. Y’all behave and if you can’t I’ll be back later to hear your confession. out
JamVet
April 18th, 2012
4:35 pm
Poor Talking Head, the guy is utterly incapable of dealing with facts.
Because he never provides any in response, it always devolves into unprovoked personal insults for him.
He is good entertainment though
gm
April 18th, 2012
4:35 pm
What if Obama has not done his job and let more 911 attacks happen in this country, I wonder would these right wing extremist priest feel the same? amazing how these so called loving America right wing have forgot about their President security allow over 3500 dead Americans in Ny.
I wonder would they have forgiven Obama if he had allowed that to happen under his watch? the idea that a person of color could stable this country is still scary to these 1952 neo brain idiots who are still scared of the 21st century.
Pass the Cheesy Grits Please
April 18th, 2012
4:36 pm
Sometimes when you try to tear down others you just end up looking silly.
Im not sure I understood any of your post.
You dont seem to grasp common sense so ill have to let you go.
Enjoy believing in Zeus or the boogeyman or whatever your flavor of superstition happens to be.
Logical Dude
April 18th, 2012
4:36 pm
Joseph April 18th, 2012 4:24 pm I wanna know what kind of dog Obama ate…..
I would hope it would be “with sauce”
TaxPayer
April 18th, 2012
4:38 pm
A primer on climate models.
JamVet
April 18th, 2012
4:38 pm
Right B @4:25, because god knows (get it?!), anthropogenic climate change has had no serious inquiry!
Stevie Ray...Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right here I am....
April 18th, 2012
4:38 pm
BRUNO,
Great point…what do religions, global warming followers and unions have in common?
They are all desperately trying to remain relevant despite outliving a useful livelihoods….the catholic church finally went for the bit SHOUTDOWN perfected by the latter two which indicates they have no game left and are simply bidding time awaiting either a return of some invisible friends, increased membership, the return of high paying manufacturing jobs, or credible data that is more than 200 years old. Perhaps the first will bring the last two???
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
April 18th, 2012
4:40 pm
Raised Chicago Irish Catholic…..seen the best of it and the worst.
Here’s a little something from him:
MOST REV. DANIEL R. JENKY, C.S.C.
OFFICE OF THE BISHOP
DIOCESE OF PEORIA OFFICE OF THE BISHOP
607 N.E. MADISON AVENUE
PEORIA, ILLINOIS 61603
PHONE: 309-671-1564
FAX: 309-671-5079
February 7-8, 2009
Dear Priests, Deacons, Religious and Faithful of the Diocese of Peoria,
My greatest responsibility as your bishop is to preach the Gospel, celebrate the Sacraments, and to try my best to be a good shepherd for this local church. The saddest part of my ministry has been to deal with our part of the immense societal issue of sexual misconduct with minors. Where there have been credible accusations made against individuals and with the advice of my Review Commission, I have not hesitated to remove them from all active ministry. I have also tried to attentively follow the charter adopted by the American bishops that deals in a comprehensive manner with this painful subject. I have not discovered any evidence in this Diocese that priests guilty of misconduct were ever moved from assignment to assignment. Our Diocese normally offers counseling to victims rather than paying out large cash settlements. Not every allegation has been found to be credible by our Review Commission, and so our Diocese resists supporting those claims that simply cannot be sustained by the facts. I take very seriously my responsibility to protect all the children entrusted to our care, and I am absolutely convinced that today the programs of our Church now provide the safest possible environment in America for your children.
In these perilous economic times, I will work to be a prudent steward of the money you offer for the work of Christ. Attorneys representing some claimants and some “victims groups” obviously have a significant financial stake in trying to overturn our Diocesan policies. Recent decisions in the Illinois courts may make our legal situation even more difficult in the future. It should be noted that the sexual abuse of minors cuts across all socio-economic lines, ethnicities, ministries, and religions. It is important to remember that the State basically exempts its own institutions from civil litigation. Amid all the tensions of our nation’s culture wars and in the face of the media’s intense hatred for our Catholic Faith, I am increasingly concerned that our Church in effect no longer enjoys equal justice under the law. I will not be intimidated by choreographed demonstrations or the abuse that is sometimes personally directed against me. I remain immensely proud of the zealous and holy priesthood of our Diocese. May God guide and protect his Holy Church and bless us all in his service.
Sincerely yours in Christ,
Most Reverend Daniel R. Jenky, C.S.C.
BISHOP OF PEORIA
Paul
April 18th, 2012
4:41 pm
Pass the Cheesy 4:36
I’m not sure you won any converts to your assertion you understand all the mysteries of the universe -
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 18th, 2012
4:42 pm
(ir)Rational, if you’re around —
Blue Lions — 1
Barça ———– 0
Thank you Lio Messi for giving the ball away to Lamps so he could send it down field setting up Drogba’s goal.
Peadawg
April 18th, 2012
4:42 pm
Anyone else see the picture of the judge that quit the Zimmerman case? She’s a total hottie and can sentence me any day!
Paul
April 18th, 2012
4:44 pm
Afternoon, Granny
Interesting post. Thanks. Don’t think it will do much to change the minds of those who stopped acquiring knowledge on the subject about ten years ago, though -
carlosgvv
April 18th, 2012
4:44 pm
Bruno – 4:07
I learned that from Professor Brian Cox, a world class physicist. Perhaps you would like to argue with him.
carlosgvv
April 18th, 2012
4:47 pm
Paul
The idea is that the four fundamental forces of nature, gravity, the strong force, the weak force and electromagnetism were one force before the big bang. That is the ultimate order. In the first moments of the big bang, these forces split and entropy began.
Aquagirl
April 18th, 2012
4:48 pm
I’m not sure you won any converts to your assertion you understand all the mysteries of the universe
True. “Goddidit” is so much more appealing to our dumbed-down society, I’m not sure that’s a win I’d crow about, though. YMMV.
JamVet
April 18th, 2012
4:50 pm
Joseph, the same question for you that I asked Union early today (And whaddya know? Nary a peep in return!)
You have a very high opinion of your intelligence, relative to unspecified other people here.
What is your IQ?
Teresa
April 18th, 2012
4:53 pm
Bravo to the eloquent Bishop. His courage in these times of lawlessness and building tyranny are truly inspiring! On we go, with Christ and His Mother leading….
barking frog
April 18th, 2012
4:53 pm
God is allowing the
destruction of the
Earth by AGW as his
way of averting his
Contract to not
destroy the earth
again as marked by
the rainbow also
known as the arc
of the covenant.
Paul
April 18th, 2012
4:55 pm
Aquagirl
Weak. The onus was on Cheesy. Dividing people into either-or camps and calling one side ‘dumbed-down’ isn’t exactly a stellar argument.
carlosgvv
So…. how did the one force occur?
No Star Wars answers from the peanut gallery.
btw – my only point is to say there’s a lot we don’t know and there is likely a lot we may describe but not understand. Saying all exists within the realm of the five senses strikes me as extremely limiting.
with-a-z
April 18th, 2012
4:55 pm
AMEN!!! What a fantastic homily – the Catholic Church needs more good Bishops like him!! I pray we hear much more from him, and similar homilies from priests in his diocese. It’s about time!!
BADA BING
April 18th, 2012
5:03 pm
Hitler, Stalin, obama…….”Two and 1/2 White men”. Coming this Fall, on FOX!
Mudfoot
April 18th, 2012
5:05 pm
Truly sad how politics has infected the churches. The last church I frequented became so political on the pulpit the sermons sounded like campaign speeches. Congrgation members were more obsessed with their “standing” in the church and how they were viewed by other members that they forgot why they were supposed to be there. It’s depressing to see people regress; they box themselves into this shelter of ignorance and basically refuse to ever grow and evolve mentally. This is especially annoying when they get up on the high horse and tell the rest of us what pieces of crap we are, bless our hearts. I’m good with God. I try hard to be fair to all and try hard not to judge others. Basically I try to live like Jesus would have wanted me to. Religion, on the other hand, has nothing to do with christian behaviour imo. Christ would have condemned many of the most-religious people I know of
barking frog
April 18th, 2012
5:05 pm
BADA
starring Bishop Sheen…
Stevie Ray...Clowns to the left and Jokers to the right here I am....
April 18th, 2012
5:06 pm
Carlos,
Brian Cox…the rock star of all that is considered physics…here’s a great excerpt from a denier and one familar with the dashing Mr Cox’s whimiscal support of this ridiculous theory…
Global warming isn’t just the best funding wheeze they’ve hit upon since the Cold War. It’s also a repository for all the green, middle class anti-capitalist prejudices which are part and parcel of the Western intellectual worldview.
Sound familiar? Keep clutching…just because you and your pal Brian Cox say it’s so, you will find many…more than many, think it’s arrogant to suppose we minute temporary occupants can effect such a pending catastrophy…
If it’s such great science, why is solid data only 200 years old and why aren’t any of your idols working as hard to prove themselves wrong which is standard scientfic form…they know where the money is daddio!!!
Joe Hussein Mama
April 18th, 2012
5:14 pm
Mudfoot — “Congrgation members were more obsessed with their “standing” in the church and how they were viewed by other members that they forgot why they were supposed to be there. It’s depressing to see people regress; they box themselves into this shelter of ignorance and basically refuse to ever grow and evolve mentally. This is especially annoying when they get up on the high horse and tell the rest of us what pieces of crap we are, bless our hearts.”
Hell is other people.
–Jean-Paul Sartre
How goes the business, Mudfoot? Finding any Signal Corps veterans?
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 18th, 2012
5:17 pm
“Who walks in the classroom, cool and slow
Who calls the English teacher, Daddy-O”
– Thomas Jefferson
Tommy Maddox
April 18th, 2012
5:17 pm
Gee, another minister calling out the President. Who’d have thought that that would happen?
carlosgvv
April 18th, 2012
5:21 pm
Paul – 4:55
No one knows how the one force occured, yet. But consider. Suppose science was able to prove there really is a God. Which God would it be, the Christian one, the Jewish one, the Islamic one or the Gods of the Hindus. Or, maybe, some unknown one. It would be one thing to prove God. It would be quite another thing to prove which one.
Logical Dude
April 18th, 2012
5:23 pm
Stevie Ray says “why is solid data only 200 years old and”
Now, if you think that solid data is only 200 years old, then you are ignorant of the science and you should really stop trying to argue right now. It makes you look unlearned.
Paul
April 18th, 2012
5:24 pm
carlosgvv
A fellow I’ve referenced before – bright guy, dual doctorates, chair of a UC department, worked on the space program, at the Jung Institute, retired and became a Unity minister. They usually use a phrase like “Infinite Mind” rather than God. Anyhow, he liked to say that God is generic, churches (or in your example, various faith traditions) are brand names.
Logical Dude
April 18th, 2012
5:25 pm
carlosgvv “Suppose science was able to prove there really is a God. ”
Great question right there. All would claim victory.
And all would be wrong. (well, except for the one *I* believe in)
Rockerbabe
April 18th, 2012
5:27 pm
The POTUS takes an oath of office and is sworn to uphold the Constitution of the United States. He did not swear to uphold the catholic faith or any other faith. None of the millions of catholic parishioners have ever taken an oath to uphold the catholic faith [assuming one even understands what that means].
Our constitution mandates that all citizens be treated fairly and equitably under the law. That includes women citizens. The US government cannot allow discrimination against women from a church related entity, like a college or university or a hospital, that accepts taxpayer money and who engages in commerce, to discriminate against women. To do so would be a violation of women’s rights and therefore illegal. The US government is not harming the church or church schools in any way as they are protected by rulings from the SCOTUS.
All this bather about freedom of religion from the unmarried, supposedly celibate, priest who have taken a vow of poverty and have ancient ideas about women and their rights is just hot air. No one is harming the church or its schools. Discrimination against women is not legal, even when done by the church; and probably not even christian.
As far as hospitals and universities are concerned, then these entities need to stop engaging in commerce and competition for customers with other like institutions. The catholic church needs to stop asking the government to give it money for tuition, medicare and medicade reimbursement for medical services and stop applying for grants of money for social services to various groups in our communities. Asking for “exemptions” so their social workers can lie to clients, by withholding relevant and legally permissible information is lying and lying is against the commandments and against the professional obligations and ethics of licensed healthcare providers in most fields of endeavor.
No one is hurting the church. If the church wants GOVERNMENT MONEY, then it must comply with government rules and regulations on the money and how it is used and what it tells its clients.
Otherwise, the church can use PRIVATE MONEY to funds its colleges, hospitals, church schools and social service programs.
carlosgvv
April 18th, 2012
5:27 pm
Stevie Ray
Brian Cox is a particle physicist and a Royal Society University Research Fellow and a professor at The University of Manchester. He is currently working at the Large Hadron Collider at CERN. Your ignorance of science is so profound I doubt you understand much of this. Are you a student or graduate of some Christian Academy? Either way you are just another painful reminder of the sorry state of education in Georgia.
Union
April 18th, 2012
5:27 pm
JamVet
April 18th, 2012
2:33 pm
Union, you have a very high estimation of your intelligence, relative to unspecified others here
What is your IQ?
as with taxes.. i imagine in a higher percentile
BADA BING
April 18th, 2012
5:28 pm
Hitler has something in common with Mrs obama. They both set up programs to help people lose weight!
JamVet
April 18th, 2012
5:28 pm
Paul, I like that.
Infinite Mind, the Cosmic Energy, etc.
But as a supernatural source of our ethos and supposed salvation?
Piffle.
And as George Carlin notes, he does some real crappy work!
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of sh*t you’d expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would’ve been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say “this guy”, because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.
MAATF
April 18th, 2012
5:28 pm
I am a Catholic who is in disagreement with the leadership of the Catholic Church on a number of issues. And I am not alone.
That includes the Church’s stance on birth control (somewhere between 70% and 90% of Catholic families use artificial birth control), insurance mandates for coverage of contraceptives for Catholic hospitals and universities, civil gay marriage with all the same benefits as straight marriage, the importance of a government agency NOT writing contracts to conform to the beliefs of a particular religion, and the importance of government NOT giving sanction to a religious group to provide a service when they intend to discriminate against a protected group.
I am not alone. But Catholics are raised to obedience and no discussion is allowed within the Church on issues they consider settled. Worse, voices of priests and theologians within the Church are being silenced. There is no mechanism within the Church for the laity to speak to bishops, much less Rome. further, the “official” voice of the Church are the bishops and they are assumed to speak for all of us.
What is so confusing to Catholics is that Catholic teaching considers individual conscience to be the primary consideration in making life choices. In 1969, Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict, said:
“Over the pope as the expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority there still stands one’s own conscience, which must be obeyed before all else, if necessary even against the requirement of ecclesiastical authority.” And long ago St. Thomas Aquinas said: “”Anyone upon whom the ecclesiastical authority, in ignorance of true facts, imposes a demand that offends (his) clear conscience, should perish in excommunication rather than violate (his) conscience. ”
And yet, today, the Church denies members of the faith and members of the clergy to speak and actually live and act as Catholics according to that most precious tool they have to make judgements: their own conscience. Equally, the Church talks of protecting “human dignity” while denying the most basic dignity of each person to live life according to one’s conscience.
All I can hopeis that my fellow Catholics will think it important to extend to the Baptist doctor, the Methodist nurse, the Lutheran food service worker, and the Muslim accountant, who works for the Catholic hospital or university, the same right to make a choice of conscience regarding birth control as they made for themselves. That is how a democracy works; how a community of diverse people work. By extending the same respect to others that we would like to have extended to ourselves.
getalife
April 18th, 2012
5:30 pm
Get your religion out of my politics cons.
JKL2
April 18th, 2012
5:30 pm
Rev Wright says,”What?”. This guy is still in the minor leagues. Not to worry as I’m sure nobody there was actually listening to what he was saying…
carlosgvv
April 18th, 2012
5:30 pm
Bruno – 4:07
If that is “gobbledegook” to you then your ignorance of science shows how sorry your education, such as it was, did nothing to really educate you.
josef
April 18th, 2012
5:30 pm
PAUL
Before I say anything, would you check the calendar and get back with me. Thank you for your time and attention. They are much appreciated.
JKL2
April 18th, 2012
5:33 pm
getalife- Get your religion out of my politics cons.
feel free to move anytime. Maybe you could go to a “good” country, not an embarrasment like the one you and the president seem to think we live in.
josef
April 18th, 2012
5:34 pm
CARLOS
I can’r vouch for the poster’s ignorance of physics, but I can vouch for yours of theology…Which G-d? The G-d of the Jews, Christians or Muslims…hey, o great omniscent one, they’re all the SAME G-d…a point on which all three of the great monotheistic faiths agree
JamVet
April 18th, 2012
5:37 pm
i imagine in a higher percentile.
Imaginary, self-proclaimed high intelligence.
No facts, no data, no tests required.
Love it.
Carlin continued…
So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he’s at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn’t give a sh*t, which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results.
Union
April 18th, 2012
5:43 pm
JamVet
April 18th, 2012
5:37 pm
Imaginary, self-proclaimed high intelligence.
No facts, no data, no tests required.
Love it.
have facts.. have data.. to the topic though.. trying to determine when facts are an issue here? obama speaks volumes of “facts” some of which are then dis-proven by his own staff.. as that does not seem to be an issue with any of the liberals.. any simpleton could determine a pattern.. liberals dont need nor do they care about facts.. its all about emotions.. hence the “love it” comment.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 18th, 2012
5:44 pm
…hey, o great omniscent one, they’re all the SAME G-d…
Which one would that be?
The Father?
The Son?
The Holy Ghost?
Paul
April 18th, 2012
5:44 pm
Rockerbabe
“None of the millions of catholic parishioners have ever taken an oath to uphold the catholic faith”
Citation? You know this how?
Paul
April 18th, 2012
5:46 pm
JamVet
I rather think somewhere Infinite Mind was doing a version of chuckling -
Paul
April 18th, 2012
5:46 pm
josef
Calendar says it’s “skip around and keep’em guessing” day.
josef
April 18th, 2012
5:49 pm
KAMCHAK
The Christians see G-d, as I understand it, as composed of three aspects, all in unity being the -ne, the Muslims and Jews view the same G-d as having a single nature, but still the -ne…To my understanding the three you name are NOT separate G-ds…
Would a Christian care to go farther into this? It is not my religion.
josef
April 18th, 2012
5:50 pm
PAUL
Oh, good…that’s the mood I’m in today…
MAATF
April 18th, 2012
5:52 pm
Lets all get disabused of the notion that the HHS mandate regarding covering contraceptives is something new – because it isn’t.
In 1970 then Congressman George H.W. Bush he urged Congress to pass Title X. Regarding contraceptives he said: ““We need to take sensationalism out of this topic so that it can no longer be used by militants who have no real knowledge of the voluntary nature of the program but, rather, are using it as a political stepping stone,” said George H.W. Bush. “If family planning is anything, it is a public health matter.” Title X, the law he sponsored that still funds family planning for the poor, passed the House by a vote of 298 to 32. It passed the Senate unanimously. A Republican president, Richard Nixon, signed it.
In 1978, Congress passed the Pregnancy Discrimination Act, forbidding employers to discriminate against women due to pregnancy or the ability to become pregnant. Based on this law, in 2000, the EEOC added a regulation that required employers who offered prescription drug benefits to include contraceptives in the benefits. George W. Bush never changed the ruling in the 8 years of his presidency.
Since 1970, 26-28 states passed state legislation requiring insurers to include contraceptives in the prescription drug benefits sold in their states. By last year, 98% of individuals and families who had health insurance through an employer had coverage of contraceptives (Kaiser Family Foundation). Is it any wonder that poll after poll has shown that contraceptives are used by 90%-98% of all women at some time during their child bearing years, that funding of Planned Parenthood is supported by over 60% of voters?
Use of contraceptives is probably more widespread than use of over-the-counter-pain killers on any given day in the U.S. And contraceptives are used not only to plan the size and timing of our children in our families, they are used by women to address serious health care conditions, such as ovarian cysts or endometriosis.
President Obama’s action in including contraceptives in the health insurance mandates reflected current federal law, the law of most states, the actual importance of contraceptives to families today, and the recommendation of medical societies who were asked to give input to the design of a national health care program.
You can argue about the Affordable Care Act providing contraceptives at no cost. But you can’t argue that including contraceptives is new or unexpected or unreasonable given its exceedingly widespread use among U.S. families and among women to address health care needs.
In other news
April 18th, 2012
5:53 pm
Obama ate a dog
Obama’s dad was a racist
Obama is knee deep in prostitutes
The national debt is soaring
Unemployment is 8.3%
Continue to change the subject from Obama’s horrible record to something a Bishop said.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 18th, 2012
5:53 pm
To my understanding the three you name are NOT separate G-ds…
That’s pretty much the way I was trained by the church to see it also.
Yet they are three separate entities.
One of the many mysteries of a supposed “mono-theistic” religion.
JamVet
April 18th, 2012
5:56 pm
Union, so you have nothing at all to backup your claim of a high percentile IQ except your imagination?
No magna/summa cum laude honors?
No Rhodes scholarships?
No Fulbright scholarships?
No Phi beta kappa keys?
No Who’s Who in American High Schools/Colleges, etc?
Nothing?
And then you then ballerina off onto some bizarre BHO screed as a way of deflecting away from the fact that you lack of facts while deriding liberals who don’t care about facts.
Got it…
gm
April 18th, 2012
6:00 pm
Nothing like our Catholic leaders setting examples to our youth, by bashing the President of the United States and comparing him to hitler, satlin, yep these are truly Americans who love this country.
Paul
April 18th, 2012
6:01 pm
Off to an evening out with friends.
Pleasant evening, all -
josef – EOI handoff to you. Share nicely with JamVet, okay?
josef
April 18th, 2012
6:01 pm
K’Chak
It’s a funny thing, not being a Christian, but I’ve p’o'd many a rabbi with my saying I have no real problem with the trinitarian concept, if we are to accept that we are created in the image of G-d…as mankind, we are the product of that something above it all, that came before and is something of a Hairy Thunderer (I’ll forego the leaving out of the vowels on that one!) judging all -e put into motion, then there is G-d the physical being of flesh, the Christ if you will, and then there is that etheral beingness the spiritual nature of what it is we are trying to comprehend. Of course, I’m a heretic by most traditionalists’ definition. Which, imuo, is a good thing…
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 18th, 2012
6:02 pm
Continue to change the subject from…
Jay’s blog, Jay gets to choose the subject.
You don’t like it?
Go to blogspot.com.
Create your own blog.
Choose the subject you want to discuss.
See how easy that is?
josef
April 18th, 2012
6:04 pm
PAUL
HAve a good one…but I’m not sure I’m going near ZamVet today…he’s on the rag seems to me…
Jay
April 18th, 2012
6:06 pm
Now you’ve done it, Josef.
I hear the H–ry Th-nd-r-r is p-ss-d and coming after you.
gm
April 18th, 2012
6:07 pm
In other news
This just in: wall street making record profits despite being on life support when Obama took office:
CEO’s are hiring and making record profits despite the economy was on life support when Obama took office.
Americans are flying on airlines with confidents despite the different codes and alerts when Obama took office.
Banks are lending again, despite banks refuse to lend when Obama took office.
Auto industry is booming again despite when Obama took office they were left for dead.
bin ladin is not making videos anymore thanks to the orders of President Obama.
To the racist Priest you should be thanking God for President Obama”””’
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
April 18th, 2012
6:10 pm
josef
I’ve got no problem with multiple gods either. I just found it funny starting in my early teens, that my religion prided itself as being monotheistic — to the point of dissing the original christian church — of worshiping false idols. Yet one of the many hymns we sang (”Holy, Holy,Holy”) has in it the verse celebrating this trinitarian concept.
Holy, holy, holy, merciful and mighty! God in three Persons, blessed Trinity!
Bruno
April 18th, 2012
6:11 pm
If that is “gobbledegook” to you then your ignorance of science shows how sorry your education, such as it was, did nothing to really educate you.
Carlos–I’ll gladly stack my scientific education against yours any day.
The bottom line, however, is that the MOST important thing we can know is what we DON’T know. For you to portray theoretical Physics as some kind of settled science reveals not only tremendous ignorance on your own part, but also reveals a faith bordering on fanaticism in people who use big words.
If you will look at the NASA site put up by Grits, for example, you will see that two very different scenarios are presented for the end of the Universe:
“What is the Fate of the Universe?
Cosmologists envision two possible fates for the Universe: The Big Freeze or the Big Crunch. The evolution of the Universe is determined by a struggle between the outward momentum of expansion and the inward pull of gravity. The strength of gravity depends on the density of the Universe. If the density of the Universe is less than the critical density, then the Universe will expand forever. If the density of the Universe is greater than the critical density, then gravity will eventually win, and the Universe will collapse back on itself.”
josef
April 18th, 2012
6:12 pm
IMAM
Thanks! I needed that! I hear -e’s already got a Bet Din set up!
Union
April 18th, 2012
6:14 pm
JamVet
April 18th, 2012
5:56 pm
And then you then ballerina off onto some bizarre BHO screed as a way of deflecting away from the fact that you lack of facts while deriding liberals who don’t care about facts.
Got it…
did you even know what all those big words meant when you did your google search?
my “ballerina off onto some bizarre BHO screed” as you put it.. was in itself a factual statement.. yet to be negated..
They BOTH suck
April 18th, 2012
6:19 pm
“Holy, holy, holy, merciful and mighty! God in three Persons, blessed Trinity!”
I remember that rockn tune from back in the day
Joe Hussein Mama
April 18th, 2012
6:19 pm
JKL — “feel free to move anytime.”
No. I think I’ll stay here, make you uncomfortable and push back.
josef
April 18th, 2012
6:20 pm
K’chak
I’m of similar opinion as you on the concept of multiple gods. I’ve been trying lately to understand Hinduism more. I work with a wonderful Hindu lady who was explaining to me that Hinduism has a single G-d above it all and the myriade of what we call gods in Hinudism are that etheral, spiritual -ne’s manifestation in terms we mortals may relate to…kinda makes sense to me…