The anniversary that Mitt Romney wants to forget

This is pretty funny, and even more damning. It was put together by American Bridge 21st Century, a pro-Democrat PAC to mark the sixth anniversary of the signing of RomneyCare into law in Massachusetts:

I continue to be astonished that the party that claims to see ObamaCare as a fundamental threat to American liberty could nominate a man with this as his signature political achievement.

Are the rest of supposed to just pretend it never happened?

– Jay Bookman

735 comments Add your comment

RF

April 12th, 2012
1:10 pm

Romney played the moderate role to get elected in Massachusetts, much as he’s playing the uber-conservative role now to get elected as President. All that proves is that he’s a true politician and he’ll govern whatever way the winds of political favor are blowing. That doesn’t make him any better or worse than any other candidate or president, in my opinion. Voters will have to decide if they want someone in the role who doesn’t seem to have a real position of his own from which to lead. Scary thought to me…

kitty

April 12th, 2012
1:15 pm

What amazes me is the right wing is buying his baloney. They throw the only good candidate they had to the curb, Huntsman, and elevate FLip Romney, Sanitorium and Newtron to the top. They aren’t too bright are they?

ty webb

April 12th, 2012
1:18 pm

Who knew Jay would tout a PAC’s work?…oh, and some of us are smart enough to distinguish the difference between state laws and federal laws.

Simple Truths

April 12th, 2012
1:20 pm

ty webb,

No surprise. I am sure Jay received his morning email from Media Matters right on schedule today.

carlosgvv

April 12th, 2012
1:21 pm

With convoluted thinking and mental gymnastics, the Republicans have persuaded their electorate that RomneyCare is a totally different thing from ObamaCare. Since this is what the faithful truly want to believe anyway, it was an easy sell.

Aquagirl

April 12th, 2012
1:23 pm

What amazes me is the right wing is buying his baloney

No they’re not, but they’re stuck with him. It’s like watching someone trying to choke down horrific food at an awkward meet-the-folks dinner. “Why yes, the pork chops are delicious! Throwing them under the table is an old Estonian custom in my family, hahahahaha!!!”

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
1:26 pm

Simple Truths — “‘I am sure Jay received his morning email from Media Matters right on schedule today.”

No doubt containing a link to the video you’re not discussing.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

April 12th, 2012
1:29 pm

Dems. wage WAR on “stay at home” moms !

HEADLINE: “Five kids and sixteen grandkids and Dem. advisor says Ann Romney has ‘never worked a day in her life’.”

Dispicable !

bleary

April 12th, 2012
1:29 pm

The Republican party pretends GW Bush never happened.

Talking Head

April 12th, 2012
1:31 pm

I don’t agree with an individual mandate, but RomneyCare was well within it’s Constitutional grounds to do so. Healthcare is a State’s issue as granted by the 10th amendment. Healthcare insurance does not cross State lines, therefore it is not considered ‘interstate’ commerce. What seperates RomneyCare and ObamaCare is that the Federal Gov is mandating we all buy healthcare insurance, and is trying to use a ridiculous reason why they can do it, ‘interstate’ commerce.

If I could buy healthcare insurance in Alabama, have the same coverage and pay less than here in GA and it payed for services here in GA, I would probably buy it. But that’s not how it works, there is no ‘interstate’ commerce.

Jm

April 12th, 2012
1:32 pm

Why is the democrat operative against stay at home moms?

“she hasn’t worked a day in her life”

Are you kidding me? Democrats are insane.

Jm

April 12th, 2012
1:33 pm

Obama isn’t a socialist either

He never said ” spread the wealth”

Lyman Hall

April 12th, 2012
1:33 pm

I believe that DieBold and crooked party hacks have more to do with the primary results.
.
Sure, after 100 years of government schools, there HAS been some dumbing down of the general electorate but…………………………….a North-East John Kerry Jr Prog?
.
Ron Paul 2012…………the thinking man’s choice…And womans.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
1:34 pm

0311 — “HEADLINE: “Five kids and sixteen grandkids and Dem. advisor says Ann Romney has ‘never worked a day in her life’.” Dispicable !”

I thought it was pretty ‘dispicable’ how you were telling untruths about LTC West yesterday.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

April 12th, 2012
1:34 pm

Happy Birthday to you

Happy Birthday to you

Happy Birthday mandate to buy healthcare signed into law by a Republican

Happy Birthday to you.

And many more.

Jm

April 12th, 2012
1:34 pm

Democrats think moms don’t work

Nuts

Simple Truths

April 12th, 2012
1:35 pm

November 4, 2008, the date America wants to forget.

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
1:35 pm

Such an extremely conservative man, that Mitt.

Misty Fyed

April 12th, 2012
1:35 pm

“The Republican party pretends GW Bush never happened.”

This makes me laugh so hard….I almost wish evolution were true…Maybe you libs can evolve into something with a bit more creativity.

ty webb

April 12th, 2012
1:37 pm

“Happy Birthday mandate to buy healthcare…”

Good gosh, she can’t even get snark right…the state law mandates you buy health insurance, not healthcare. Typical.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
1:37 pm

T. Head — “If I could buy healthcare insurance in Alabama, have the same coverage and pay less than here in GA and it payed for services here in GA, I would probably buy it. But that’s not how it works, there is no ‘interstate’ commerce.”

Because states demand to have the final say on what sort of health insurance can be sold within their borders. If you can’t buy AL health insurance in GA, then that’s GA’s fault, not the Federal government’s.

Jm

April 12th, 2012
1:37 pm

Romneycare is very different than obamacare

For starters there’s not a penalty of over $1000 and romneycare has a much more flexible implementation plan than obamacare

But sont let that distract from democrat talking points and hyperbole

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
1:38 pm

Jm — “Democrats think moms don’t work”

Can you show me Ann Romney’s paystub? Did Mitt ever give her one? :D

Simple Truths

April 12th, 2012
1:38 pm

As bad as Jay’s blog can be (and this entry is bad), I have to remind myself: It is still better than Cynthia Tucker’s old blog.

Jm

April 12th, 2012
1:39 pm

Romneycare has a $50 penalty

Big difference from obama’s $1000 penalty

And apparently democrats don’t understand the 10th amendment that makes it legal for a state to do this but not the federal government (tbd by scotus)

TBone

April 12th, 2012
1:40 pm

I think any reasonable person would agree if we were going to experiment with a form of socialized medicine, the state level would provide a good lab for feedback but not a country the size of the US. Can we still blame Bush for this? That would please the deranged crowd.

Illegal Alien

April 12th, 2012
1:40 pm

Does Ann Romney have any household workers?

Jm

April 12th, 2012
1:42 pm

Tbone

Agreed. This should be a state issue.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

April 12th, 2012
1:43 pm

TY

Why thank you for the correction. I appreciate your graciousness.
.
.
.
.
.

Happy Birthday to you

Happy Birthday to you

Happy Birthday mandate to buy health insurance signed into law by a Republican

Happy Birthday to you.

And many more.

Now that we have the verbage he requested, TY WEBB will be leading us in song

a 1
and a 2
and a 3

Jm

April 12th, 2012
1:43 pm

States rights

Different stokes for different folks

More freedom

Misty Fyed

April 12th, 2012
1:43 pm

Hmmm. Let’s see…the REPUBLICANS nominate a man who has taken on health care with a plan that has survivied legal challenge and the libs are criticising him for it. This is what happens when the democrats start to believe their own press. Maybe….just maybe, those evil conservatives aren’t as oblivious to the need to address health care as the libs say they are.

Jm

April 12th, 2012
1:44 pm

Romneycare isn’t 1700 pages long

stands for decibels

April 12th, 2012
1:44 pm

Are the rest of supposed to just pretend it never happened?

Dunno, but the rest of US are likely to remember it now and again.

Jm

April 12th, 2012
1:46 pm

Romney vetoed 8 sections of the MA health care bill

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

April 12th, 2012
1:46 pm

Pardon me

Jm

but I think you have the penalty amounts wrong.

While you look them up to verify please also check to see what if any enforcement mechanisms have been/will be pit in force.

kthxbye

Donovan

April 12th, 2012
1:47 pm

I continue to be astonished by the party who elected Bill Clinton (the first president who had illicit sex in my Oval Office), who elected JFK (the first president who had illicit sex in my White House), and Jimmy Carter (the worse president before Obama arrived).

We Republicans are not thrilled with Mitt’s mistake in Massachusetts, but we know that he is supremely more qualified than this clown you lunatics have elected.

Look at Mitt’s record of life successes and then look at Obama’s record of life successes. There is no comparison. Mitt wins hands down.

Therefore, I am astonished to see how you liberals can support such a loser and feel good about it.

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
1:48 pm

Dems. wage WAR on “stay at home” moms !

Is this 1992 and an attack on a different Hillary for a similar comment?

History tries to repeat itself. Failed then, too.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

April 12th, 2012
1:48 pm

Enter your comments here

Talking Head

April 12th, 2012
1:48 pm

You know what’s funny?

Republicans want everyone to be able to purchase plans in other states. Democrats don’t want you to be able to buy insurance from other states.

Republicans don’t want ObamaCare because it forces you to buy something. Democrats want ObamaCare because it forces everyone to have healthcare insurance (and in my view more control over the masses).

If we were able to purchase healthcare from different states, the dem argument about the commerce clause would probably hold up.

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
1:48 pm

Romneycare isn’t 1700 pages long

Your point being you can’t read something longer than that?

Mr_B

April 12th, 2012
1:49 pm

“Healthcare insurance does not cross State lines, therefore it is not considered ‘interstate’ commerce. ”

How do you explain the fact that my benefits statement comes from Charlotte, NC? Has North Carolina been annexed by GA?

ty webb

April 12th, 2012
1:49 pm

Just think, if Obama had any cajones, he’d take some other states’ laws with respect to marriage, and apply them to the federal government, thus rendering Bill Clinton’s(D) DOMA null and void…I only wonder why he doesn’t? hmmmmmm.

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
1:50 pm

by the party who elected Bill Clinton

I continue to be astonished by people who don’t understand election law in the USA.

ty webb

April 12th, 2012
1:51 pm

Granny,
much better…you’re welcome.

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
1:51 pm

he’d take some other states’ laws with respect to marriage, and apply them to the federal government, thus rendering Bill Clinton’s(D) DOMA null and void…I only wonder why he doesn’t? hmmmmmm.

His administration stopped defending it in court. Four more years of Obama and it’ll be gone… as it should be, since it violates the constitution.

Brosephus™

April 12th, 2012
1:52 pm

Healthcare insurance does not cross State lines, therefore it is not considered ‘interstate’ commerce.

Tell that to people who’s insurance providers are in states other than where they live and buy insurance. Insurance is already sold across state lines without any extra legislation or regulation to do so. All the provider has to do is meet the guidelines of the state where they choose to sell.

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
1:57 pm

Mitt didn’t pay his housekeepers very much either.

stands for decibels

April 12th, 2012
1:57 pm

Your point being you can’t read something longer than that?

I think it was Scalia’s point, although he was grousing about *2700* pages.

(And having to eat broccoli, I think.)

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

April 12th, 2012
1:58 pm

ty webb

what a lovely baritone you have

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
2:00 pm

GG — “ty webb what a lovely baritone you have”

Clearly his pants are too tight. :D

stands for decibels

April 12th, 2012
2:00 pm

I know, it’s off topic deflecto-trollage I’m replying to but I gotta ask–

Bill Clinton (the first president who had illicit sex in my Oval Office), [...] JFK (the first president who had illicit sex in my White House)

Donovan? “The first?” You *know* that Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Monroe, et al, never indulged in similar boinkage, in similar surroundings, during their terms of office, how?

Mr_B

April 12th, 2012
2:04 pm

“Republicans want everyone to be able to purchase plans in other states. Democrats don’t want you to be able to buy insurance from other states.”

I really don’t give a flying damn which state you buy insurance in. I just you to have to buy it so I don’t end up paying for your healthcare (or you for mine)

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

April 12th, 2012
2:04 pm

Joe….

That would be soprano…..you mean old meanie!!

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
2:04 pm

I think it was Scalia’s point, although he was grousing about *2700* pages.

nah, it was a rightwingnutistan meme for a while… just showed the depth of their anti-intellectualism.

Mr_B

April 12th, 2012
2:05 pm

Sorry: omitted “want”

ty webb

April 12th, 2012
2:05 pm

Granny,
that’s nothing…I do my best work in the shower.

Bruno

April 12th, 2012
2:06 pm

I’m so glad you’ve decided to approach the discussion in a calm, mature and respectful manner.

Joe–You might wish to figure out a little more quickly when someone is yanking your chain.

I continue to be astonished that the party that claims to see ObamaCare as a fundamental threat to American liberty could nominate a man with this as his signature political achievement.

Pretty funny talk coming from someone who proclaimed Romney to be the victor before any of the primary results even came in. It’s no secret that people who call themselves conservative are very unhappy with the nominee. That is until you start comparing him to Obama. He’s been looking better and better to me these past few weeks.

getalife

April 12th, 2012
2:06 pm

willardcare is the law like ObamaCare is the law.

Is willard more liberal than our President?

Mmmmmm.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
2:07 pm

SFD — “I think it was Scalia’s point, although he was grousing about *2700* pages. ”

That really struck me during the presentations; it sounded as if Scalia planned to vote to overturn the ACA *despite* not having read it and that he was essentially saying ‘I’m not *going* to read it.’

ty webb

April 12th, 2012
2:07 pm

“Is willard more liberal than our President?”

no, he’s just more constitutional.

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
2:07 pm

He’s been looking better and better to me these past few weeks.

That’s what happens when it’s 2 am and you’re still drinkin’ alone because your hottie quit on you hours before.

JKL2

April 12th, 2012
2:08 pm

Liberalism: Not going to be happy until everyone is as miserable as we are.

Vote obama: Free money for everyone!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5tqH7UrzOw

Tall

April 12th, 2012
2:08 pm

Bruno: I agree. We haven’t seen Romney take on Obama yet. Hopefully he will have learned from his mistakes.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
2:09 pm

Bruno — “Joe–You might wish to figure out a little more quickly when someone is yanking your chain.”

Absent your physical presence, your use of emoticons or an explicit statement from you to the effect of ‘FYI, I’m yanking your chain,’ it’s difficult in the extreme to do that. And I prefer not to engage in mindreading, though I’ve seen you make attempts at it from time to time. ;)

stands for decibels

April 12th, 2012
2:11 pm

Couple of audio notes:

1. That “whoosh!” one hears at the 1.40 mark—that’s still in the Fox News soundclip arsenal, is it? Jeez, that’s annoying. and yes, I know other cable “news” outlets do similar things to snag the attention of their falling-asleep-in-fronta-the-TeeVee viewers.

2. I THOUGHT I remembered where the “happy anniversary” jingle came from, I sure am glad this spot capitalized on those Bedrock principles, at the end.

Jay

April 12th, 2012
2:12 pm

“Nice try on damage control Jay but one of Obuma’s handlers stepped in it….”

“One of Obama’s handlers”, Joseph? Hmm.

Please, identify any link or tie that has ever existed between Ms. Rosen and Obama’s 2008 campaign, his 2012 campaign, his U.S. Senate campaigns, his Senate office or the Obama White House.

Was she ever employed by Obama? Ever had a contract with Obama? Is she employed by the DNC? Does she have a contract with the DNC?

What exactly makes her Obama’s “handler”?

How is her statement somehow a reflection on Obama, but — just for comparison’s sake — a column by a conservative writer attacking blacks as inferior is not a reflection on Romney? (http://takimag.com/article/the_talk_nonblack_version_john_derbyshire#axzz1rAwW8l1q)

Just for the record, I don’t think the Derbyshire column is in any way a reflection on Romney. And I also don’t think the Rosen comments are in any way a reflection on Obama.

But hey, if I’m wrong I’m sure you’ll explain why, right Joseph?

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
2:13 pm

But hey, if I’m wrong I’m sure you’ll explain why, right Joseph?

Don’t hold your breath waiting for Joseph to own up to his ignorance on the subject. That’s outside his abilities.

Talking Head

April 12th, 2012
2:13 pm

“Tell that to people who’s insurance providers are in states other than where they live and buy insurance. Insurance is already sold across state lines without any extra legislation or regulation to do so. All the provider has to do is meet the guidelines of the state where they choose to sell.”

Wrong. Insurers can’t sell policies in one state (say GA) and then sell the same policy to someone in another state (say TN) without conforming to both state’s insurance laws. Insurers today must be licensed in and comply with the laws of every state where they conduct insurance business.

If what you said was true, then the SCOTUS wouldn’t have argued against the commerce claus.

Mr_B

April 12th, 2012
2:13 pm

“It’s no secret that people who call themselves conservative are very unhappy with the nominee. That is until you start comparing him to Obama.”

Here, in a nutshell, is a perfect illustration of the intellectual bankruptcy of the anti-Obama faction of the American public. No “here is an alternate solution to a widely recognized problem” or “I understand your ideas but would like to suggest this” Instead we get NOBAMA, “he hates the US” and “he’s out to destroy the country.”

Until you guys come up with something to vote FOR, don’t get your hopes too high.

Bruno

April 12th, 2012
2:14 pm

I just you to have to buy it so I don’t end up paying for your healthcare (or you for mine)

Poor Mr B, still falling for the specious “free rider” argument.

getalife

April 12th, 2012
2:14 pm

“no, he’s just more constitutional.”

Got any proof?

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

April 12th, 2012
2:15 pm

I didn’t see a big celebration on the anniversary of the signing of Obamacare. Are we supposed to pretend it didn’t happen?

Michael

April 12th, 2012
2:16 pm

Healthcare is an interstate issue. When my son was injured in a soccer tournament in South Carolina and taken to the hospital, our insurance company rejected the claim, because the service was outside of the network. Then, when we had a second xray here in Atlanta, the claim was rejected, because we already had an x ray.
The Canadians I’ve met don’t seem to worry about crossing international borders, much less state borders, where their insurance is concerned.

ty webb

April 12th, 2012
2:16 pm

Jay,
she’s been to the Whitehouse something like 35 times, and met with obama personally there a handful of times. She’s worked with Anita Dunn. If limbaugh’s comments can be attached to GOP candidates, then so can Rosen’s to democrats. it’s all gotcha politics, but evidently, that’s what we all like…look at how many hits you get.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
2:18 pm

“that’s what we all like…look at how many hits you get.”

Now that is funny…………. good one

getalife

April 12th, 2012
2:18 pm

She apologized for telling the truth .

Move on.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
2:18 pm

I love this goody ploy by the Republicanardists that because it was a single state only, the individual mandate was perfectly fine.

Do I dare bring up the efforts championed by the Heritage Foundation, Orrin Hatch, Charles Grassley, Robert Bennett, Don Nickles, John Chafee, Christopher Bond, Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney among many other cons in Washington to do the exact same thing at the national level in the early 1990s?

Nah, better leave that one alone.

I love the smell of con parsing in the afternoon.

It is the smell of………………………. victory.

getalife

April 12th, 2012
2:19 pm

“I didn’t see a big celebration on the anniversary of the signing of Obamacare. Are we supposed to pretend it didn’t happen?”

You ignored it steve.

Common Sense

April 12th, 2012
2:19 pm

“I continue to be astonished that the party that claims to see ObamaCare as a fundamental threat to American liberty could nominate a man with this as his signature political achievement.

Are the rest of supposed to just pretend it never happened?”

That’s because you see no difference between federal and state governments.

Mr_B

April 12th, 2012
2:20 pm

Ty: That description would also match the Speaker of the House.

ty webb

April 12th, 2012
2:20 pm

“Got any proof?”

you mean other than Mitt’s state healthcare law not being dragged before the SCOTUS to debate it’s constituionality? nah.

gm

April 12th, 2012
2:20 pm

Wow, enough said, this guy has to be the biggest hypocrite ever, this shows this generation of rep party has to be the worst saps of rep ever.

stands for decibels

April 12th, 2012
2:21 pm

That really struck me during the presentations; it sounded as if Scalia planned to vote to overturn the ACA *despite* not having read it and that he was essentially saying ‘I’m not *going* to read it.’

what stuck in my craw was that it was severability being discussed when he made that comment; he was really essentially saying “I’m not going to bother even considering severability because I ain’t workin’ that hard.”

And, just to be nitpicky–the actual law, pre-reconciliation, is here, and it’s 2,409 wide-margined, double-spaced pages.

http://www.healthcare.gov/law/resources/authorities/patient-protection.pdf

throw in the reconciliation bit

http://www.healthcare.gov/law/resources/authorities/reconciliation-law.pdf

and you get another 55 pages, although they’re single-spaced, but still wide margined.

Which makes me wonder where exactly Scalia got his “2700 page” talking point? An unimpeachable source, I’m sure.

getalife

April 12th, 2012
2:22 pm

I did not see a coordinated attack using dem guvs and talk radio to attack women like the gop.

Not even close cons but keep thinking a millionaire’s wife connects with the working Mothers trying to pay her bills.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
2:22 pm

Again I must ask, what are the substantial differences in policy between Obama and Romney based on their governing actions while in office rather than their rhetoric?

Brosephus™

April 12th, 2012
2:22 pm

Insurers can’t sell policies in one state (say GA) and then sell the same policy to someone in another state (say TN) without conforming to both state’s insurance laws. Insurers today must be licensed in and comply with the laws of every state where they conduct insurance business.

Did you not just say the same thing I said? If Blue Cross Blue Shield of Georgia decides to sell Nick Saban a policy, they simply have to meet the licensing requirements for the state of Alabama. When Nick buys his policy, he’s buying it from BCBS of Georgia, is he not? Is that not selling insurance across state lines? If that’s the case, how am I able to have my policy, that I signed up and pay for here in GA, when it’s administered by a provider based in Kentucky.

Trying to parse words by implying selling the same exact policy does not mean that insurance is not sold across state lines. When a provider in California sells a policy in Georgia, that provider is still in California. Nice try, but that argument has been debunked long ago.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
2:22 pm

Ann Romney is a slut and a prostitute.

And I want the videos.

Hmmm, seems a tad more harsh than saying she has never worked a day in her life, huh?

Or is that just me?

Any thoughts, Dittoheads?

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
2:22 pm

The Canadians I’ve met don’t seem to worry about crossing international borders,

yes, they do. Unless they go somewhere with universal health care, they may have to pay out of pocket… unless they buy a travel insurance policy.

I have Canadian relatives who are old and when they come here, they have to buy a short-term policy to cover them.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
2:25 pm

SFD — “Which makes me wonder where exactly Scalia got his “2700 page” talking point? An unimpeachable source, I’m sure.”

It’s not just that Scalia implied that he wasn’t going to read it, it’s also that conservatives didn’t come screaming out of the woodwork, berating him for what he said. After all, if they were going to crap on Congress for supposedly not reading it and then voting on it, surely they’d crap on a SCOTUS justice for doing the same thing, right?

Jay

April 12th, 2012
2:27 pm

So …. Hilary Rosen = Rush Limbaugh, Ty? I don’t think so.

Until the last day or two, did you even know who Rosen was?

I sure didn’t.

As a headline at Slate puts it: “Romney Camp Will Keep Calling Hilary Rosen an Obama Adviser Because Shut Up That’s Why”

Talking Head

April 12th, 2012
2:27 pm

“When Nick buys his policy, he’s buying it from BCBS of Georgia, is he not?”

No, he is buying a policy form BCBS of Alabama.

Look it up, don’t be ignorant.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
2:28 pm

Joe Hussein Mama,

“if they were going to crap on Congress for supposedly not reading it and then voting on it, surely they’d crap on a SCOTUS justice for doing the same thing, right?”

They will have to repeal it first to know what’s in it that they declared unconstitutional?

Brosephus™

April 12th, 2012
2:31 pm

No, he is buying a policy form BCBS of Alabama.

Dude, I’m looking at my insurance card, and nowhere is Georgia mentioned. When I pay my premium, nowhere is Georgia mentioned. When I signed up, the provider’s address had nothing to do with Georgia. Ask around, and you’ll find many others here who fit the same scenario.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
2:32 pm

Are the rest of supposed to just pretend it never happened?

Didn’t you know? It’s like an Etch-A-Sketch!

Michael

April 12th, 2012
2:32 pm

Byte me – Do they have to buy a short term policy, when they travel from Toronto to Montreal?

ty webb

April 12th, 2012
2:32 pm

Jay,
No, one’s a democrat and the other’s a republican…and they speak for themselves…Rush isn’t under contract as a GOP adviser, yet everytime he gives the left ammo, they attach the “defacto head of the GOP” label to him. Funny you, nor slate, has a problem with that.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
2:33 pm

Bro @ 2:22

I don’t think that is correct. Insurance companies set up subsidiaries in the states that they sell insurance.

A salesmen could be authorized to sell in more than one state, however he is selling the insurance via the subsidiary of the particular state the policy his sold in.

I did some consulting for a company that did print work for an insurance company out of South Carolina. I not an expert to speak for all insurance companies, but this particular one had it set up as I mentioned in the previous paragraph.

The individual’s policy would say XYZ Company of GA, TN, etc

Adam

April 12th, 2012
2:33 pm

Scout: HEADLINE: “Five kids and sixteen grandkids and Dem. advisor says Ann Romney has ‘never worked a day in her life’.”

Well I guess if you consider it a woman’s “job” to stay at home with the kids, that makes sense….

This from the same people who want to say there’s no war on women :roll:

Talking Head

April 12th, 2012
2:34 pm

“Dude, I’m looking at my insurance card…”

Dude, seriously.

http://www.bcbs.com/about-the-companies/

Adam

April 12th, 2012
2:34 pm

Talking Head: But that’s not how it works, there is no ‘interstate’ commerce.

So does your insurance only cover you if you get injured in Georgia or go to Georgia hospitals?

….that’s what I thought.

JohnnyReb

April 12th, 2012
2:36 pm

“I continue to be astonished that the party that claims to see ObamaCare as a fundamental threat to American liberty could nominate a man with this as his signature political achievement.”

Jay, let me explain it to you. It all has to do with the 10th amendment and states rights.

It has to do with you libs basically wanting to nueter state governments and control everything from Washington.

It has to do with the Commerce Clause having morphed into a monster diametrically opposed to the 10th amendment.

If the majority of citizens in MA wants Romneycare, fine. If the majority in GA want something similar, fine. But no stinking Federal involvement.

Thus, Romneycare for MA was OK. And, he has stated repeatedly if elected he will repeal Obamacare. Why is he for it in MA but against Obamacare? He believes in the 10th amendment. Try it, you might like it.

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
2:37 pm

As a headline at Slate puts it: “Romney Camp Will Keep Calling Hilary Rosen an Obama Adviser Because Shut Up That’s Why”

Sounds like something from The Onion.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
2:37 pm

Thulsa

Don’t you sell insurance or used too?

Help us out here

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
2:38 pm

Byte me – Do they have to buy a short term policy, when they travel from Toronto to Montreal?

Nope. Canadian health care coverage works everywhere in Canada.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
2:38 pm

Misty Fyed: Let’s see…the REPUBLICANS nominate a man who has taken on health care with a plan that has survivied legal challenge and the libs are criticising him for it

They are criticizing him for walking back on his idea, not for implementing it. It makes a certain amount of sense, and is not “unconstitutional,” as some would suggest. Particularly because every single argument they have used falls apart in the face of precedent and basic Congressional authority.

Congress does seem to want to give more and more of its power away to other branches, though, I gotta say. What with the War Powers Act and this fight to make it unconstitutional to pass ObamaCare when it wasn’t before.

Talking Head

April 12th, 2012
2:38 pm

“So does your insurance only cover you if you get injured in Georgia or go to Georgia hospitals?

….that’s what I thought.”

So the Obama Administrations was able to successfully argue it’s case using the Commerce Clause to the SCOTUS?

…that’s what I thought.

morally corrupt

April 12th, 2012
2:39 pm

The Democratic Party hates women and children…. why do they demonize women who raise our children…. is it becasue they think Government can raise children better?

Jack

April 12th, 2012
2:39 pm

This right wing person is not buying anyone’s baloney. I vote for the party that’s not trying to give away the entire store.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
2:39 pm

Brosephus™

“I’m looking at my insurance card, and nowhere is Georgia mentioned”

Just a point of fact: BCBS is an association of licensees that are independently owned. BCBS of GA is actually owned by Anthem, along with 13 other BCBS licenses. BCBS of Alabama is separate independent licensee of BCBS. Other than the holding a BCBS license, neither has anything to do with the other.

JKL2

April 12th, 2012
2:40 pm

Jay-Was she ever employed by Obama? Ever had a contract with Obama? Is she employed by the DNC? Does she have a contract with the DNC?

Yes. Not sure if she’s on the payroll, but if she’s not she should be.

http://saveuschuckwoolery.com/heres-who-democrat-hitwoman-hilary-rosen-visited-at-the-white-house-including-at-least-5-potus-meetings/

Adam

April 12th, 2012
2:40 pm

JHM; That really struck me during the presentations; it sounded as if Scalia planned to vote to overturn the ACA *despite* not having read it and that he was essentially saying ‘I’m not *going* to read it.’

Yeah I thought that was a bit d*ckish of him as well.

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
2:41 pm

“I’m looking at my insurance card, and nowhere is Georgia mentioned”

doesn’t matter what your card says. matters what your POLICY says.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
2:42 pm

Until you guys come up with something to vote FOR, don’t get your hopes too high.

EXACTLY

Midori

April 12th, 2012
2:42 pm

Donovan – ever hear of Woodrow Wilson? Warren Harding?

Between Woodrow Wilson and Bill Clinton, the one major exception to this rule was Warren Harding, yet even in this case, reports of presidential adultery followed his death. For fifteen years, Harding had an affair with Carrie Phillips, the wife of a close friend. After World War I broken out in Europe, she threatened to reveal their affair unless Harding voted against a U.S. declaration of war. After Harding received the Republican presidential nomination in 1920, the Republican National Committee sent her family on an all-expense paid trip to Japan and paid her $20,000 to keep quiet. Later, a woman named Nan Britten claimed that she had an illicit affair with Harding, including trysts in a White House cloak closet, and that the he had gotten her pregnant.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
2:43 pm

Steve – USA: I didn’t see a big celebration on the anniversary of the signing of Obamacare

I sure did.

BTW this is the second time I’ve heard this today. Was this on the talk radio?

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
2:44 pm

Hmmm, no comments from our Dittoheads.

I guess they agree.

When I get the videos, I’ll let you boys know where to send your three easy payments of $69.99. And don’t forget! Mention Rush Limbaugh, and I’ll waive the shipping and handling. A $99 value!

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

April 12th, 2012
2:45 pm

“Soft kitty,
Warm kitty,
Little ball of fur.
Happy kitty,
Sleepy kitty,
Purr, purr, purr.”
– Thomas Jefferson

n

April 12th, 2012
2:45 pm

Law should be a very conservative realm. A core principle of law taught to law students is “stare decisis” It means “the matter stands decided” by decades of court decisions and prior case law. If Obamacare is overturned by the SC it is because they are ignoring decades of prior SCOTUS decisions interpreting the Commerce Clause and upholding lawmaking prerogatives of the U.S. Congress. It is practically unthinkable, except that the political agenda of the Roberts’ Court is blatantly obvious in their rush to decide the case right before the next presidential election. My take is that they will overturn Obamacare in order to bolster the Republican candidate. It will be Bush v. Gore all over again, with the justices playing the role of ultimate kingmaker.

(ir)Rational

April 12th, 2012
2:45 pm

Kam – Does that help you sleep after watching Chelsea games? ;)

JKL2

April 12th, 2012
2:46 pm

Sarah Palin demonized for going to work and not stay home with her downs syndrome kid. Ann Romney demonized for staying home to raise her 5 kids instead of getting a job. Which is it Demwits?

A women with MS, breast cancer surviver who raised five kids is out of touch with reality and doesn’t know what working mothers have to go thru. I think Ms Rosen is the one who needs to get in touch with reality.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
2:46 pm

JamVet — “When I get the videos, I’ll let you boys know where to send your three easy payments of $69.99. And don’t forget! Mention Rush Limbaugh, and I’ll waive the shipping and handling. A $99 value!”

MOAR SKANKS PLZ

JohnnyReb

April 12th, 2012
2:46 pm

re, the thread downstairs and the poll results.

The PEW poll gives everything but the political affiliation of the respondents, which makes ALL the difference in the world. Does anyone know? Without that, the poll is crap.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
2:47 pm

Talking Head: So the Obama Administrations was able to successfully argue it’s case using the Commerce Clause to the SCOTUS?.

Actually, yes. Despite whatever RNC ads you saw that were clipped.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
2:48 pm

n: If Obamacare is overturned by the SC it is because they are ignoring decades of prior SCOTUS decisions interpreting the Commerce Clause and upholding lawmaking prerogatives of the U.S. Congress

THIS

morally corrupt

April 12th, 2012
2:49 pm

JKL2

the most misogynistic people in this world are Democratic women

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
2:52 pm

Lets see.

Before a couple of days ago nobody had even heard of Rush Limbaugh while hundreds of millions knew who Hilary Rosen was and listened to her nationwide radio program daily and doted on her every proclamation.

Before a couple of days ago it was not common knowledge that Ms. Rosen had a documented thirty year history of making up the most vile and depraved lies and slanderous racial and ethnic slurs about innocent people, while everybody knew that Mr. Limbaugh had no such record.

And as for power, oh my, there is no comparison!

Several really high people in the Democratic Party publicly apologized to Ms. Rosen for disagreeing with her. Including the Charmian of the Democratic National Committee going to great lengths to explain that it was him and not Ms. Rosen who runs the Democratic Party.

With a lot more hard work and some lucky breaks, one day Rush Limbaugh can dream of reaching the heights in his political party that Hilary Rosen has in hers!

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

April 12th, 2012
2:53 pm

saveuschuckwolery.com???

screen cleaner please

that may be the funniest thing I have ever seen on this blog, ever

AND

if it ain’t Wink Martindale it just can’t be true….

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
2:54 pm

the most misogynistic people in this world are Democratic women

Not Rush Limbaugh?

Hmmm…

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
2:55 pm

“I think Ms Rosen is the one who needs to get in touch with reality.”

I think Ms Rosen is a ruse by the GOP to try to distract people from their horrible record on women’s issues…

Adam

April 12th, 2012
2:56 pm

I repeat:

Scout: HEADLINE: “Five kids and sixteen grandkids and Dem. advisor says Ann Romney has ‘never worked a day in her life’.”

Well I guess if you consider it a woman’s “job” to stay at home with the kids, that makes sense….

This from the same people who want to say there’s no war on women

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
2:56 pm

JamVet @ 2.52,

:)

JKL2

April 12th, 2012
2:57 pm

jamvet- Ann Romney is a slut and a prostitute. And I want the videos. Hmmm, seems a tad more harsh than saying she has never worked a day in her life, huh? Or is that just me? Any thoughts, Dittoheads?

I don’t remember her testifying before a congresswoman that she was a 30 year college student who needed someone to by her birth control for her?

I think Ann’s story was they lived in a $62/month basement apartment, used a door for a table, and she kept the kid in her lap while she studied. They didn’t move out until the third kid came along. Nothing in her story about asking for welfare that I can see. And they were married at the time so no, not a slut either.

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
2:58 pm

I think Ms Rosen is a ruse by the GOP to try to distract people from their horrible record on women’s issues…

Not distract… but it might make a few GOP men feel better about their horrible record of using the law to forcibly rape women using medical probes.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
2:58 pm

jewcowboy, like shooting fish in a barrel!

Yeah, I guess that Hilary Rosen is a Grade A FemiNazi, huh?

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
2:59 pm

JohnnyReb,

“which makes ALL the difference in the world”

Sounds like an excuse to disregard results you don’t care for to me.

(ir)Rational

April 12th, 2012
2:59 pm

Adam – I’m no woman, nor do I have kids, but I would argue that staying home with the kids is a job. More of a full time one then a lot of “normal” jobs. I’m not saying it is the woman’s job, nor that it is something I will expect of my wife, but to argue that staying home with 5 kids isn’t a job isn’t realistic in my opinion.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

April 12th, 2012
2:59 pm

(ir)Rational

Remind me again who it is that the Gunners are playing in the UCL semi-finals.

Oh yeah, they aren’t playing in the UCL semi-finals. They didn’t even make it to the quarter-finals.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
2:59 pm

“who needed someone to by her birth control for her?”

Please STOP LYING.

Or don’t.

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
2:59 pm

Demonizing people! I thought that was Ann Coulter’s profession.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
3:00 pm

JKL — “I don’t remember her testifying before a congresswoman that she was a 30 year college student who needed someone to by her birth control for her?”

I don’t remember Sandra Fluke doing that either.

Maybe if you had actually read a transcript of her testimony instead of swallowing whatever Rush Limbaugh tells you, you wouldn’t make such egregious and erroneous statements.

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

April 12th, 2012
3:00 pm

PArdon Me

JKL2

But that’s not what Ms. Fluke tesitfied about was it?

You still have quoting issues don’t you….

ty webb

April 12th, 2012
3:00 pm

Leave it to Amvet, he of the “at least Obama’s not as bad as Bush” apologists, to trot out a “atleast Rosen’s statements aren’t as bad as Rush’s”…in other news, the sky is blue.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
3:00 pm

JKL2: I don’t remember her testifying before a congresswoman that she was a 30 year college student who needed someone to by her birth control for her?

Funny, I don’t remember a single human being on the planet who has done that.

(ir)Rational

April 12th, 2012
3:00 pm

Kam – I’m going to love watching Messi kick the crap out of the Blues. :)

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
3:00 pm

Staying at home with the kids is a job. Telling the maid which room to clean first and telling the cook what to prepare for supper and… well, that’s hard work.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
3:00 pm

So brother Kam, et al,

At the risk of showing my complete ignorance, when are the next UEFA games being televised?

Illegal Alien

April 12th, 2012
3:01 pm

Most everyone here knows only what some commentator told them about the Constitution. If the Constitution is the FINAL word, then appeal all laws.

This healthcare stuff is all about insurance companies loving it. Their profits have probably never been higher.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
3:01 pm

JKL2,

“she was a 30 year college student who needed someone to by her birth control for her?”

Wouldn’t her insurance premiums be paying for for birth control? Or does that work for only non-birth control prescriptions?

JohnnyReb

April 12th, 2012
3:01 pm

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
2:59 pm

JohnnyReb,

“which makes ALL the difference in the world”

Sounds like an excuse to disregard results you don’t care for to me.
_________________

I don’t deny disliking the poll results, but surely you see the results mean nothing if the majority participating were Democrats?

(ir)Rational

April 12th, 2012
3:03 pm

JamVet – That depends, do you get Fox Deportes?

Talking Head

April 12th, 2012
3:03 pm

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
3:03 pm

Woo HOO, at least I got one person here of the non-liberal persuasion to acknowledge (somewhat) that the Excrement in Broadcasting King is worthy of the opprobrium leveled at him.

Good job ty

Adam

April 12th, 2012
3:03 pm

(ir)Rational: but to argue that staying home with 5 kids isn’t a job isn’t realistic in my opinion.

It takes up a lot of time and effort, but it is not a “job” because it is not paid. The same logic you are giving can be applied to going to college. It is a lot of time and effort, but you do not get paid for it. You might get a loan or a grant to help YOU pay for it, but you don’t get paid for it.

Now I would argue it is certainly ideal to be able to raise kids without having to work, and that it is also ideal to go to college without having to work. But for most Americans this is not possible. As such, anyone who has either capability is not in touch with most Americans.

In addition, implying that it SHOULD be a job, and that staying at home with the kids is the woman’s responsibility, is highly insulting to most women I know. I know you yourself are not implying that, but that is where I am coming from with my original comment.

Oscar

April 12th, 2012
3:04 pm

I think Romney is very confused over this whole issue.

It’s good for everybody.
No, it’s only good for Mass.
No, it’s good, but only if the states pass the law.
It’s not unconstitution, but it’s a bad idea for the congress to pass it.
It’s not unconsitituional in Mass, but it is everywhere else.

JKL2

April 12th, 2012
3:04 pm

jewcowboy- I think Ms Rosen is a ruse by the GOP to try to distract people from their horrible record on women’s issues…

I think Ms Fluke was a ruse by the DNC to try and distract people from their horrible record.

Ms Rosen is practically if not on the obama payroll and shouted this BS for a second time after being told to shut up the first time. I think she’s helping the GOP but in no way can any of this be tied to them.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
3:05 pm

I’m not sure, but I think not (ir). Do you know if it is on Comcast extended basic cable?

Adam

April 12th, 2012
3:05 pm

Talking Head: Obama campaign got greedy with the so called war on women. Now 97% agree with Ann Romney.

Yeah, ask the same people if they think it’s the woman’s job to stay at home with the kids if she has any, and not work otherwise.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
3:05 pm

TaxPayer,

“Telling the maid which room to clean first and telling the cook what to prepare for supper and… well, that’s hard work.”

I’ve watched “Dynasty”…dealing with the help is tough. Especially when Alexis keeps meddling.

mm

April 12th, 2012
3:06 pm

“Good gosh, she can’t even get snark right…the state law mandates you buy health insurance, not healthcare. Typical.”

That is so ignorant Ty. But coming from you, I’m not surprised. Either you know you are lying, or you are an idiot.

Obamacare requires you to buy insurance just like Romneycare.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
3:06 pm

Besides, my Spanish is muy malo!

Towncrier

April 12th, 2012
3:06 pm

“I continue to be astonished that the party that claims to see ObamaCare as a fundamental threat to American liberty could nominate a man with this as his signature political achievement.”

Romney’s solution was for a state and not the federal government. That is a key distinction. I happen to think that any rights NOT enumerated in the Constitution should be had at the state, rather than federal, level as well. Thus there would be states that permitted gay marriage, unlimited abortions or whatever and those that would not. It would be a good step towards following the letter and spirit of the Constitution.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
3:07 pm

Romney’s solution was for a state and not the federal government. That is a key distinction

Only to people who don’t realize that his original position, and the position of most conservatives, was that it be a national plan.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
3:08 pm

JohnnyReb,

“urely you see the results mean nothing if the majority participating were Democrats?”

http://www.people-press.org/methodology/

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
3:08 pm

I’ve watched “Dynasty”…dealing with the help is tough. Especially when Alexis keeps meddling.

I certainly would not argue that point.

mm

April 12th, 2012
3:08 pm

Wow, our amusing righties are grasping at straws this afternoon.

The lies are many and the stupid is thick.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
3:09 pm

AHA!

First Ms. Fluke, now Ms. Rosen. The new and improved pathetic ploy and Democratic plant!

Ruse Rosen.

And the GOP lunacy spirals onward…

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
3:09 pm

Towncrier — “I happen to think that any rights NOT enumerated in the Constitution should be had at the state, rather than federal, level as well.”

I’m sure you simply forgot to mention unenumerated *individual* rights there.

JKL2

April 12th, 2012
3:09 pm

oscar- I think Romney is very confused over this whole issue.

I think you’re the one that’s confused. States have the right to pass it. They have the power. Congress can’t force it down our throats because it’s not in the Constitution (unconstitional) and thus they do not have the power to pass it. Just because it passed in MA doesn’t mean everyone has to pass it. Each state has that right.

You seem to be lost on States v. Federal rights.

PS: It’s four times more expensive than predicted, service sucks, and it’s bankrupting the state. Sounds like something we need to pass nationwide doesn’t it? Liberalism: spread the pain.

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
3:09 pm

Obama campaign got greedy with the so called war on women. Now 97% agree with Ann Romney.

Stupidest comment I’ve seen here today. And so many stupid statements from Rightwingnutistan to choose from.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
3:11 pm

Adam, apparently Mr. Crier missed my 2:18…

I love this goody ploy by the Republicanardists that because it was a single state only, the individual mandate was perfectly fine.

Do I dare bring up the efforts championed by the Heritage Foundation, Orrin Hatch, Charles Grassley, Robert Bennett, Don Nickles, John Chafee, Christopher Bond, Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney among many other cons in Washington to do the exact same thing at the national level in the early 1990s?

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
3:12 pm

“Obama campaign got greedy with the so called war on women. Now 97% agree with Ann Romney.”

I’m loving how many of the “conservatives” on here are trying to obfuscate this thread because they do not want to address Romney’s hypocrisy on his current position on healthcare vs. his actual actions.

A good preview of what is to come during this election. I expect quit a few more Romney/Rosen moments before November…that is all the “conservatives” have.

Towncrier

April 12th, 2012
3:12 pm

“Only to people who don’t realize that his original position, and the position of most conservatives, was that it be a national plan.”

I am of a different understanding. Just how was a governor of a state going to implement a national plan? And I have heard the statements he made from that time and I have heard non (unedited) ones calling for a national mandate. And to whom are you referring to as “most conservatives” – the Heritage foundation and Newt Gingrinch?

(ir)Rational

April 12th, 2012
3:12 pm

Adam – Arguably, no you don’t get paid. But for the average person, putting 5 kids in daycare would cost more than one parent or the other might earn were they working. Especially considering all the built-in time off that kids require for doctor’s visits and when they’re sick ect. So, at the same time you’re arguing that you don’t get paid, you could also argue that you are in a sense getting paid. Yeah, it would be insulting to a lot of women I know if you were to argue that staying home with the kids was their job, or something they should want to do, but I know just as many that aspire to that. Sadly, I met a lot of girls at Tech that aspired to that. Obviously, because they were at Tech, they were smart and getting a good education, but they aspired to stay home and raise children. Having said all that, judging by how things are, if I have kids, and one of us has to stay home with them, that one will most likely be me.

JamVet – It is not, unfortunately. My weekends and weekday evenings would be much more entertaining if it were. I typically just go to the La Parilla or Taco Mac and watch them when I can’t get them at home. Here is a schedule of when they’re going to be showing reruns and live games though. http://www.livesoccertv.com/competitions/international/uefa-champions-league/

ty webb

April 12th, 2012
3:12 pm

“That is so ignorant Ty,”

mm,
thanks, I appreciate that. But, you might want to go back and read what I was correcting granny about, and her subsequent correction. have a great day.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
3:13 pm

I happen to think that any rights NOT enumerated in the Constitution should be had at the state, rather than federal, level as well.

The Ninth Amendment disagrees with you, good sir.

stands for decibels

April 12th, 2012
3:14 pm

Wouldn’t her insurance premiums be paying for for birth control?

Not after the goopers finish legislatin’.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
3:15 pm

JKL2: You seem to be lost on States v. Federal rights.

Oh I know exactly what your argument is: States have unlimited rights to make law whereas Federal laws are severely limited, and state law can trump/nullify Federal law, except for whatever cherry-picking you want to do regarding the US Constitution.

You happen to be totally and completely wrong, but ok.

Bud Wiser

April 12th, 2012
3:15 pm

I have it!

Bush persuaded this Anne Rosen-cow-lobbyist-pig to attack stay at home moms!

Bush! Bush! It’s always Bush!

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

April 12th, 2012
3:15 pm

(ir)Rational

Do you read the daily comic strips in the AJC? Get Fuzzy is my favorite, and Bucky has made some astute observations this week — http://www.gocomics.com/getfuzzy/2012/04/12

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Brother AmVet

I think Fox Sports has the exclusive for UEFA programming but I’m not sure. It seems that Chelsea is only shown on The Fox Soccer Channel.

The first leg of the semi-finals is 17-18 April 2012, and the second leg is 24-25 April 2012

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/index.html

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
3:15 pm

“I expect quit a few more Romney/Rosen moments before November…that is all the “conservatives” have.”

Well there is always Wright (which Hanitty is already foaming at the mouth about), Ayers, Muslim innuendos (Mike Gallagher already on that one) and birth certificates (we have a few “bithers” on this blog)……………………

You know how well that worked last time……….. well it didn’t but get ready for a whole lot more of it

Talking Head

April 12th, 2012
3:16 pm

“I’m loving how many of the “conservatives” on here are trying to obfuscate this thread because they do not want to address Romney’s hypocrisy on his current position on healthcare vs. his actual actions.

A good preview of what is to come during this election. I expect quit a few more Romney/Rosen moments before November…that is all the “conservatives” have.”

I’m loving how clueless libs are.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
3:16 pm

(ir)Rational: I agree with your points. Just saying that putting it in the context of “it’s a woman’s job to stay home with the kids” is insulting.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
3:17 pm

Bud, she is neither a cow nor a pig.

She is a slut and a prostitute.

Please get your Republican talking points straight!

Oscar

April 12th, 2012
3:17 pm

JKL2

April 12th, 2012
3:09 pm
____

then you agree that the states have the right to force you to buy a commercial product. That’s the whole point of the objection to the law, that no govet. in America, state of federal can do that. If it’s not constitutional for the feds to do it, then the states can’t do it either.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
3:17 pm

“Bush! Bush! It’s always Bush!”

I hear ya……… Heck one can still hear Limbaugh, Hanitty and Boortz cry about Bill Clinton…………… almost 12 years after he left office

So l “certainly feel your pain”

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
3:18 pm

JKL2,

“because it’s not in the Constitution”

Presumption of innocence not is not codified in the text of the Constitution either.

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
3:20 pm

I am of a different understanding. Just how was a governor of a state going to implement a national plan?

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/mitt-romneys-advice-for-obamacare-look-at-romney

(ir)Rational

April 12th, 2012
3:20 pm

Kam – That may be so, but Messi is Argentinian and he ROCKS. Pele is an idiot for trying to argue that Messi doesn’t deserve to be in the conversation for who is the greatest player ever. Having said that, I wasn’t aware of those comics, but that sh*t is funny. Barca plays beautifully, even if the Spaniards are given to falling when you look at them wrong.

Towncrier

April 12th, 2012
3:21 pm

“I’m sure you simply forgot to mention unenumerated *individual* rights there.”

No, I did not. Many think the 9th amendment is too nebulous to mean much at all. I think it a disclaimer of sorts. And if that were understood the way you think it should be today, why were separate amendments added giving the right to vote to women, blacks and those 18 and older? Why not have the SCOTUS just decide they should? But these were added before 1973, huh?

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
3:22 pm

Kam, I checked out that site earlier, but kind of hate going there, because all it does is get me excited about matches that I can’t watch!

Dear monopolists at Comcast,

May I please trade in all of your NBA, NASCAR, PGA and WNBA programming for UEFA and Premier League Football?

Thank you.

JohnnyReb

April 12th, 2012
3:22 pm

jewcowboy – thanks for the link; I will read it in-depth when I have a little more time.

Towncrier

April 12th, 2012
3:23 pm

“The Ninth Amendment disagrees with you, good sir.”

I don’t think it does. See my above response to JMH.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
3:23 pm

Heck one can still hear Limbaugh, Hanitty and Boortz cry about Bill Clinton.

That’s nothing, BOTH.

Check out the empirically challenged cons here who still blather on about how Carter was the worst ever.

(ir)Rational

April 12th, 2012
3:24 pm

Adam – Agreed – Odd how we can have a discussion about something, not argue and come to a rational conclusion. Especially odd considering our political views, you’re always called a crazy left wing liberal, while I’m only called that on days when I piss off the conservatives for not agreeing with them. :)

Brosephus™

April 12th, 2012
3:24 pm

Talking Head

From your own link: Providing local solutions that improve access to affordable, quality healthcare, each of the 38 independent and locally operated Blue Cross and Blue Shield companies deliver health insurance coverage for 100 million members across all 50 states, the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico.

They acknowledge 38 independent and locally operated companies providing in all 50 states. How does 38 equal 50?

JohnnyReb

April 12th, 2012
3:24 pm

Here’s something to lighten your day. Don’t know the author; received from a friend.

Woman Gives Self First Aid

Linda Burnett, 23, a resident of San Diego, was visiting her in-laws and while there went to a nearby supermarket to pick up some groceries. Later, her husband noticed her sitting in her car in the driveway with the windows rolled up and with her eyes closed, with both hands behind the back of her head.

He became concerned and walked over to the car. He noticed that Linda’s eyes were now open and she looked very strange. He asked her if she was okay, and Linda replied that she had been shot in the back of the head and had been holding her brains in for over an hour. The husband called the paramedics, who broke into the car because the doors were locked and Linda refused to remove her hands from her head. When they finally got in, they found that Linda had a wad of bread dough on the back of her head. A Pillsbury biscuit canister had exploded from the heat, making a loud noise that sounded like a gunshot, and the wad of dough hit her in the back of her head. When she reached back to find out what it was, she felt the dough and thought it was her brains. She initially passed out, but quickly recovered.

Linda is a blonde, a Democrat, and an Obama supporter, but that could all be a coincidence. The defective biscuit canister was analyzed and the expiration date was from 2008, so it was determined to be Bush’s fault.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
3:25 pm

They BOTH suck,

“You know how well that worked last time……….. well it didn’t but get ready for a whole lot more of it”

Thankfully I rarely turn on my tv, so I will be able to avoid most these absurdities. This is really the only part of life where I get to see the insane paranoia and narcissism of “conservative” minds at work.

Towncrier

April 12th, 2012
3:25 pm

“Check out the empirically challenged cons here who still blather on about how Carter was the worst ever.”

He wasn’t. LBJ was worse.

(ir)Rational

April 12th, 2012
3:25 pm

JamVet – After checking to ensure that you didn’t include college football or the NFL, I’ll add my grouping of those sports to yours if it will help. :)

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
3:26 pm

Towncrier — “No, I did not.”

Then that’s all I need to know about you.

Oscar

April 12th, 2012
3:27 pm

Stating that the law is a bad idea and should be overturned is one thing.

Stating that it is unconstitution is quite something else.

Saying it is unconstiutional simply because you think is a bad idea that should not have been passed is a misuse of the courts and of the constitution.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
3:27 pm

Brosephus™,

“How does 38 equal 50?”

Actually 52…don’t forget little ol DC and PR ;)

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
3:28 pm

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
3:29 pm

don’t forget little ol DC and PR

And Guam. And a few other places I don’t remember without looking up.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
3:30 pm

And George Walker Bush was FAR worse than both of them, right Crier?

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
3:31 pm

“Linda is a blonde”

Speaking of “conservative” misogyny…

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

April 12th, 2012
3:31 pm

Brother AmVet

If you are a Comcast customer they have a sports package for an additional $5 a month (or it used to be) that includes the Fox Soccer Channel.

http://www.comcast.com/Corporate/Programming/sports/SEPackage.html?SCRedirect=true

Oscar

April 12th, 2012
3:31 pm

ByteMe – Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
3:29 pm
don’t forget little ol DC and PR

And Guam. And a few other places I don’t remember without looking up.

———

Is Guam still here. I heard it was overloaded and sank.

carlosgvv

April 12th, 2012
3:32 pm

“even more damning”

This will simply re-enforce the Democrats’ contention that Romney will do anything, including shamless flip/flopping, to get the nomination. Republicans, on the other hand, will twist and spin until they have convinced the electorate that Romney is a rootin-tootin straight shooting good old boy who will lead the Party to “taking back America”. The gullible, which includes most of the Republican electorate, will believe every word of it although, deep down, they still won’t trust that non-Christian Mormon.

Brosephus™

April 12th, 2012
3:32 pm

doesn’t matter what your card says. matters what your POLICY says.

I understand that. I don’t have my health policy at hand, but looking at my auto insurance, I see the statement “LibertyGuard Auto Policy Declarations provided and underwritten by LM General Insurance Company, Boston, MA.” It’s through Liberty Mutual as an affiliation with a Credit Union based in the DC/VA/MD area. I understand how the licensee and affiliation thing goes. My point is that the main company selling the insurance IS selling across state lines.

Creating a subsidiary company to license in a particular state does not change the fact that the main company is the one selling the product. When you buy a tv from Best Buy in Alpharetta, you are still buying from Best Buy Inc. regardless to the fact that the particular store is located in Alpharetta. The profits do not stay in Alpharetta or even Georgia. All things go back to the home company. I don’t have insurance sales experience, but I’m betting that not all premiums paid in Georgia stay in Georgia either.

(ir)Rational

April 12th, 2012
3:32 pm

ByteMe – You mean enough people actually took that seriously that they made a Snopes page about it? You mean you were one of them!?!?!?! ;)

Towncrier

April 12th, 2012
3:32 pm

“Saying it is unconstiutional simply because you think is a bad idea that should not have been passed is a misuse of the courts and of the constitution.”

I would suggest you do a bit of research to determine just how much of what all three branches of the government do is strictly constitutional in its original Federalist sense. As I have said before, the SCOTUS is now nothing more than an NBA referee, calling a traveling violation if a player takes more than, say, four steps before shooting.

Mighty Righty

April 12th, 2012
3:33 pm

Adam, read the tenth amendment.

(ir)Rational

April 12th, 2012
3:34 pm

Oscar – It tipped over, but I was told everyone just ran to the high side of the island and jumped onto the formally submerged side when it flipped. :)

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
3:35 pm

Linda is a blonde, a Democrat, and an Obama supporter, but that could all be a coincidence.

I see JohnnyReb is auditioning for Limbaugh’s old job.

stands for decibels

April 12th, 2012
3:36 pm

You mean enough people actually took that seriously that they made a Snopes page about it? You mean you were one of them!?

why, that’d be akin to… thinking Hank Johnson meant an island was going to literally “tip over” when he used that phrase?

I’m sure nobody actually does, though.

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
3:37 pm

You mean enough people actually took that seriously that they made a Snopes page about it?

They have pages about almost any spam you receive that purports to be a “true story”.

And too many out here are likely to believe it, regardless of how stupid it sounds just because they’re suffering from advanced cases of ODS. I just figured it was a public service to point out that it’s another example of a lie that just won’t die because cons keep repeating it like it’s “true”.

Brosephus™

April 12th, 2012
3:37 pm

Actually 52…don’t forget little ol DC and PR

Well, I was trying to make it easier for the numbers to match. :)

My point is still the same. One major company sets up individual “stores” to sell their goods in different states. That IS interstate commerce.

(ir)Rational

April 12th, 2012
3:38 pm

sfd – Whether he was serious or not, that was one of the dumbest things to ever be uttered in Congress. Seriously.

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
3:38 pm

My point is that the main company selling the insurance IS selling across state lines.

NOT selling unless their policy was approved locally.

On the other hand, multi-state companies often get policies written in another state and administered locally for each state. but they still have to be in accordance with state law on coverages (e.g., covering mammograms).

Recon 0311 2533

April 12th, 2012
3:38 pm

Just doesn’t get anymore low life than this. They should issue an order authorizing a pass for these dirt bags to enter the military reservation so they can hump that hill themselves and bring those crosses down undamaged for transportation elsewhere.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/12/marines-fight-to-protect-crosses-at-camp-pendleton-as-atheist-groups-seek/

Oscar

April 12th, 2012
3:38 pm

I would suggest you do a bit of research to determine just how much of what all three branches of the government do is strictly constitutional in its original Federalist sense

________

The original Federalist sense does not matter. The Federalist ideas were not law and were not even agreed to by everyone at the time. You have to go by the written constitution, not what someone thought it should mean in 1780.

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
3:39 pm

That IS interstate commerce.

of course it is. Only cons think it’s not. ;)

(ir)Rational

April 12th, 2012
3:40 pm

ByteMe – I always assumed it was a funny joke. I truly never knew anyone took it seriously.

Towncrier

April 12th, 2012
3:41 pm

“The original Federalist sense does not matter. The Federalist ideas were not law and were not even agreed to by everyone at the time. You have to go by the written constitution, not what someone thought it should mean in 1780.”

The meaning of a written document is derived from the intent of its author(s). Now, you may want to channel the founding fathers to best ascertain their intent in drafting and ratifying the Constitution, but I will stick to extant contemporaneous writings, thank you.

Brosephus™

April 12th, 2012
3:42 pm

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
3:43 pm

“but I’m betting that not all premiums paid in Georgia stay in Georgia either.”

That is true; whether it is via a subsidiary, licensing agreement, etc…… profits, a burden for operational support and probably other expenses will be going going back to Mama Corp……….

Whether one wants to call it a semantics and legality game to get around the law is another story, however legally MetLife GA is not MetLife NY

(ir)Rational

April 12th, 2012
3:43 pm

ByteMe – I’m not people are arguing about whether selling insurance is interstate commerce or not. I think people are arguing whether the government can regulate a non-action as interstate commerce. Or are we just trying to be funny and not even a little serious on some things?

JohnnyReb

April 12th, 2012
3:44 pm

You guys have to keep a sense of humor. I may not agree with Moonbats here, but I take on face value their passion for what they believe means they are at their core good people, just misguided :)

stands for decibels

April 12th, 2012
3:44 pm

that was one of the dumbest things to ever be uttered in Congress.

Clumsy, yes.

Dumb? why is it dumb to ask if deploying a large number of military personnel on a small (209 square miles) island might have a negative environmental impact?

Isn’t it kind of the job of a Congrefscritter to ask such things?

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
3:45 pm

Bro

“My point is still the same. One major company sets up individual “stores” to sell their goods in different states. That IS interstate commerce.”

In reality? yes……. from a legal perspective? no

It is a legalese game……. which only complicates this whole insurance BS and actually drives back to a point you have made several times: SINGLE PAYER

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
3:45 pm

Actually, the meaning of a document is what all its authors agreed to.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
3:45 pm

Recon — “Just doesn’t get anymore low life than this. They should issue an order authorizing a pass for these dirt bags to enter the military reservation so they can hump that hill themselves and bring those crosses down undamaged for transportation elsewhere.”

Sounds good. Then the Marines can concentrate on making it a non-religious memorial instead of a blatantly religious one on Federal land.

Midori

April 12th, 2012
3:46 pm

WASHINGTON — For a woman with three houses and sixteen grandkids, Ann Romney doesn’t have very much help around the house, according to her 2010 tax return.

IRS forms released Tuesday by Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign show that despite reporting income of $21.7 million, the couple paid only $20,603 in taxable wages for household help in 2010. This figure was divided among four women: Rosania Costa ($4,808), Kelli Harrison ($8,667), Susan Moore ($2,238) and Valerie Cravens Anae ($4,890).

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
3:46 pm

JR @ 3:44

What’s up man?

I was thinking the same about you

Hope you are having a great week

Brosephus™

April 12th, 2012
3:46 pm

of course it is. Only cons think it’s not.

Gotta give credit to a new argument that I had not heard before… The lack of an argument about that in front of the SCOTUS. So now it’s not interstate commerce because that was not the argument made before the SCOUTS. Brilliant!!!

(ir)Rational

April 12th, 2012
3:47 pm

Well, I’m not sure what I was trying to say, but I’m sure that “I’m not people” wasn’t it. Maybe, “I’m not *sure* people” or some other word in there that might make my sentence make sense.

sfd – If he had of asked it that way, it wouldn’t have been a dumb question. Arguing that it might tip the island over, was a dumb question and a dumb way to phrase it no matter what he meant.

JohnnyReb

April 12th, 2012
3:47 pm

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
3:31 pm

“Linda is a blonde”

Speaking of “conservative” misogyny…
__________________________________

Na, NA. I love women, bless their little hearts. But jewcowboy, if you don’t understand the “blonde” jokes it means you have not been around too long or have not paid attention, regardless of your age.

Brosephus™

April 12th, 2012
3:48 pm

In reality? yes……. from a legal perspective?no

Well, when you have the money to buy legislation, you can legislate reality into something resembling Oz. That doesn’t make reality unconstitutional or non-existent. :)

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
3:48 pm

Midori @ 3.46,

Help with the proper papers is evidently very difficult to come by…

Towncrier

April 12th, 2012
3:48 pm

“Sounds good. Then the Marines can concentrate on making it a non-religious memorial instead of a blatantly religious one on Federal land.”

Majority rules here. Try again in another century.

Oscar

April 12th, 2012
3:48 pm

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
3:45 pm
Actually, the meaning of a document is what all its authors agreed to.

________

No, that is nonsense. The meaning of a document, especially a law, is what it says. And in our counrty, it’s up to the federal courts to determine what the constitution says. And it’s up to the state courts to determine what the state laws say.

JohnnyReb

April 12th, 2012
3:49 pm

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
3:46 pm

JR @ 3:44

What’s up man?

I was thinking the same about you

Hope you are having a great week
___________________

It’s down to crunch time on taxes. Need I say more? But things are good as I hope they are with you?

Moderate Line

April 12th, 2012
3:49 pm

RomenyCare – I can move to a different state if I don’t like it.
ObamaCare – I can’t move to a different country.

Towncrier

April 12th, 2012
3:50 pm

“IRS forms released Tuesday by Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign show that despite reporting income of $21.7 million, the couple paid only $20,603 in taxable wages for household help in 2010. This figure was divided among four women: Rosania Costa ($4,808), Kelli Harrison ($8,667), Susan Moore ($2,238) and Valerie Cravens Anae ($4,890).”

That can’t be right, because Ann never worked a day in her life!!!

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
3:50 pm

JohnnyReb,

“if you don’t understand the “blonde” jokes it means you have not been around too long or have not paid attention, regardless of your age.”

And if you don’t understand that jokes like that are centered in the belittlement of women, then you won’t understand why that joke was not funny, regardless of your age.

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
3:50 pm

I think people are arguing whether the government can regulate a non-action as interstate commerce.

If I don’t sell or buy illegal drugs across state lines, it can still be a Federal crime under interstate commerce laws. go figure.

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
3:51 pm

And it’s up to the state courts to determine what the state laws say.

And Federal Law can and often does supercede.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
3:51 pm

Bro

I’m with you…….

What is strange is that if you go back and look at the lobbying done on a state level many of the major insurance companies wanted less competition and these convoluted laws……..

carlosgvv

April 12th, 2012
3:52 pm

Recon

As you may know, before the start of every NACSAR race, a Christian minister says a prayer and often ends it “in Jesus name we pray”. Just wait until these low lifes and/or The Civil Liberties Union decide to try to stop this and then watch the sh*t hit the fan.

JohnnyReb

April 12th, 2012
3:52 pm

jewcowboy – there is “belittlement,” and there is reality.

JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG

April 12th, 2012
3:52 pm

IRS forms released Tuesday by Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign show that despite reporting income of $21.7 million, the couple paid only $20,603 in taxable wages for household help in 2010. This figure was divided among four women: Rosania Costa ($4,808), Kelli Harrison ($8,667), Susan Moore ($2,238) and Valerie Cravens Anae ($4,890).

October surprise, someone will pop up with an Arnold Schwarzenegger baby…

Brosephus™

April 12th, 2012
3:53 pm

ObamaCare – I can’t move to a different country.

You might wanna let jm know that then. :)

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
3:54 pm

Towncrier — “Majority rules here.”

No, it doesn’t. If you could get a majority of American citizens to vote in favor of slavery, would you advocate its reinstitution?

I have no problem whatsoever with a religious memorial on private land, or a non-sectarian memorial on Federal land. But a sectarian religious memorial on Federal land — especially one constructed without any sort of approval being sought or granted? No.

A compromise can be reached that serves the interests of all, but the sort of ‘eff you, full stop’ response you just made simply makes atheists and freethinkers more determined to push back when things like this happen.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
3:55 pm

I have mixed feeling about those crosses at Pendleton, but taking the wise Jewish view, I think they should be replaced with something non-Christian.

Jm

April 12th, 2012
3:57 pm

Bro 3:53

I heeaarrrr you….. :)

U can move. Just not easily. :) . Unless you’re loaded.

Midori

April 12th, 2012
3:57 pm

jewcowboy @ 3:48 pm — word

Aquagirl

April 12th, 2012
3:57 pm

Just wait until these low lifes and/or The Civil Liberties Union decide to try to stop this and then watch the sh*t hit the fan.

I see our resident Christians are out reminding us just WWJD….

(ir)Rational

April 12th, 2012
3:58 pm

ByteMe – So, you’re equating whether I buy or chose not to buy insurance to being a drug dealer? That is a new one for me. Probably one of the longest stretches I’ve heard too. Congrats for that. Seriously though, should my or choice NOT to buy a product be regulated by the federal government, no matter what that product might be?

Brosephus™

April 12th, 2012
3:59 pm

They BOTH

That’s the problem with the system. Lobbying/gifting/money has created most of the problems we have. Lobbying is also at play in trying to deflect the blame from the people responsible. Had legislators done their due dilligence long ago and not succumbed to their lust for campaign cash and gifts, the ACA would not have been needed at all.

Recon 0311 2533

April 12th, 2012
3:59 pm

“Sounds good. Then the Marines can concentrate on making it a non-religious memorial instead of a blatantly religious one on Federal land.”

Joe, it isn’t and wasn’t intended as a religious memorial. It’s symbolic of suffering and sacrifice. It’s a documented fact that Christ suffered and sacrificed his life through crucifiction on the cross. It wasn’t intended to present a religious view only to symbolize the suffering and ultimate sacrifice our military makes in times of war. It was very private and non-observable by the general public. No one is/was being encouraged to accept Christianity. It’s indeed a travesty that a small group of narrow minded people would go to such an extreme to remove a place only reserved for mourning warriors.

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
4:00 pm

So, you’re equating whether I buy or chose not to buy insurance to being a drug dealer?

No, that’s not what I did. What I said was that the Feds already regulate things that have nothing to do with interstate commerce under the interstate commerce rules.

Now if you want to get specific about health care, there’s already a federal law on the books that all hospitals have to provide emergency care to all comers regardless of ability to pay. What clause you think Congress used to pass that law?

Tommy Maddox

April 12th, 2012
4:00 pm

Oh once again we all forgot about the 9th Amendment:

The Mass Healthcare Bill was a State enacted law – not a Federally enacted law.

getalife

April 12th, 2012
4:00 pm

It must be nice to never worry about money like the romney’s.

Out of touch with the majority of the American people.

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
4:00 pm

Oscar,

I think I’ll stick with a document meaning what its authors agreed to. Otherwise, the authors would not have agreed to it and it would have different authors that agreed to its content or different content that the authors did agree to. And of course the easiest way to reach agreement is to only have one author. For example, I have always agreed to whatever I authored before I put my “John Hancock” to it.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
4:00 pm

Carlos — “As you may know, before the start of every NACSAR race, a Christian minister says a prayer and often ends it “in Jesus name we pray”. Just wait until these low lifes and/or The Civil Liberties Union decide to try to stop this and then watch the sh*t hit the fan.”

The ACLU doesn’t normally get involved unless there’s a question of governmental entanglement with religion.

And we ‘low lifes’ have every right to express our views, just as anyone else does. However, it might do you some good to ask one of us what sorts of public expressions of religious faith we object to, as opposed to just leaping to an unwarranted and uninformed conclusion, as you just did.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
4:01 pm

Romney needs to purchase a ranch and sell his country club home………. he can than start doing photo ops as we lead up to the election….

If he wins he can wear is “working man” clothes when he is on the ranch ….. you guessed it for my photos ops

Once his term or terms are over, he can purchase another home in the country club

Shucks… George W Bush already did that……. not sure if it will work again…….. (I think LBJ might have done the same)

For those who think I’m full of it…. go look up when Bush bought his ranch and where he now lives since leaving office

His money so he can use it as he wished and wished, but it was a ruse that many bought ……… hook, line and sinker
he didn’t even need a net…………

Brosephus™

April 12th, 2012
4:02 pm

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
4:02 pm

Bro @ 3:59

I couldn’t have said it any better……. well I know I couldn’t have

Aquagirl

April 12th, 2012
4:02 pm

t’s a documented fact that Christ suffered and sacrificed his life through crucifiction on the cross.

By soldiers.

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
4:04 pm

lowlifes! Are Baptists on here talking about Mormons again.

Towncrier

April 12th, 2012
4:05 pm

“No, it doesn’t.”

Yes, it does. Even if it is in the SCOTUS.

“If you could get a majority of American citizens to vote in favor of slavery, would you advocate its reinstitution?”

I am all for protecting against a tyranny of the majority. But I am likewise for protecting against a tyranny of the minority – which is why I think unenumerated constitutional rights are best defined at the state level. And, until 1973, I believe they largely were. There is substantial debate over the meaning of the 9th amendment, but my concern is to get back to a place where our practice matches the standard we claim we are following. That may require change to the Constitution and practices, but otherwise we have a meaningless standard; the referees (SCOTUS) are the standard now.

“I have no problem whatsoever with a religious memorial on private land, or a non-sectarian memorial on Federal land. But a sectarian religious memorial on Federal land — especially one constructed without any sort of approval being sought or granted? No.”

This was not a problem 50 years ago. And it is a problem for a minority of people, not the majority. I am likewise not averse to respecting your views. But a better accommodation needs to be found then the simplistic concept of a church/state separation created by the SCOTUS. We have to find some way to insure that neither the majority or the minority holds sway over the other in federal mattterss.

Mr_B

April 12th, 2012
4:06 pm

“It’s four times more expensive than predicted, service sucks, and it’s bankrupting the state.”

Strange, since the states don’t have to do anything before 2014, and there have been no expense yet.

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
4:07 pm

This was not a problem 50 years ago

Neither was Internet scams.

Times change.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
4:08 pm

Recon — “Joe, it isn’t and wasn’t intended as a religious memorial.”

Fine. Remove the religious symbols, then, and we’re done.

Again, I have no problem with a religious memorial on private land, or a non-sectarian memorial on Federal land. Pick one, make it happen, and we’re square. Simple as that.

“It’s symbolic of suffering and sacrifice.”

Fine. Remove the religious symbols, and it can still be symbolic. Crosses aren’t the only symbols of suffering and sacrifice in existence.

“It’s a documented fact that Christ suffered and sacrificed his life through crucifiction on the cross.”

Shrug. Lots of people were crucified back then, and lots of them were criminals. I’m sure you wouldn’t want a memorial to our honored war dead to resemble an execution, would you?

“It wasn’t intended to present a religious view only to symbolize the suffering and ultimate sacrifice our military makes in times of war.”

Fine. Then symbolize it without religious symbols.

“It was very private and non-observable by the general public.”

It’s on Federal land. It doesn’t matter if it’s visible to the public or not.

“No one is/was being encouraged to accept Christianity.”

And no one brought that up.

“It’s indeed a travesty that a small group of narrow minded people would go to such an extreme to remove a place only reserved for mourning warriors.”

It’s more of a travesty that Marines would perform an unauthiorized, violative act instead of seeking proper authorization through their chain of command so that they could construct a memorial that would be inclusive of ALL who suffered and sacrificed, including those of different faiths and those of no faith at all.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
4:11 pm

Towncrier — “Yes, it does. Even if it is in the SCOTUS.”

No, it doesn’t. The majority cannot violate the rights of the minority.

“I am all for protecting against a tyranny of the majority.”

Clearly you are not.

In the interest of politeness and amity, I’m going to refrain from responding to the rest of your post.

Oscar

April 12th, 2012
4:11 pm

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
4:00 pm
Oscar,

I think I’ll stick with a document meaning what its authors agreed to. Otherwise, the authors would not have agreed to it and it would have different authors that agreed to its content or different content that the authors did agree to. And of course the easiest way to reach agreement is to only have one author. For example, I have always agreed to whatever I authored before I put my “John Hancock” to it.

________

Well, you have a point. If in a contract both parties agree on the meaning, the meaning is not likely to become an issue. It’s only when there is a disagreement between the authors that the question comes up.
When all the authors and original parties are dead, it’s hard to tell what they meant in case of a dispute.

Jm

April 12th, 2012
4:12 pm

Mr B isn’t aware that MA began the socialized medicine experiment 6 years ago

(ir)Rational

April 12th, 2012
4:13 pm

ByteMe – So you think the government should be able to regulate my decision not to buy a product or service? You will never get prosecuted for NOT buying drugs, and the government doesn’t regulate you not buying them. The law states that I now have a duty to purchase a product I may need, but may not want or face penalties and fines for not doing so. That seems fine to you? I don’t trust any politician, local, state or federal to make the determination for me what product or services I should buy for me and my family.

Towncrier

April 12th, 2012
4:13 pm

“Again, I have no problem with a religious memorial on private land, or a non-sectarian memorial on Federal land. Pick one, make it happen, and we’re square. Simple as that.”

Why not let each individual family decide for their fallen loved one? Maybe a cross beside individual names if so desired?

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
4:13 pm

JHM

Maybe a symbol is added for every religious ideology and sect that has ever been represented and is currently represented in the military……….

Me personally…………. I think there are bigger fish to fry than that issue. However I do respect your stance and calling out what many of those who do not agree with you end playing a semantics game with the symbolism……………

End of the day it is your tax dollars and right to speak up as much as it is anyone else’s

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
4:13 pm

When all the authors and original parties are dead, it’s hard to tell what they meant in case of a dispute.

Not to hear Scalia talk about it.

Paul

April 12th, 2012
4:14 pm

Mitt’s been criticized by Republicans and Democrats alike because, they say, he doesn’t have a core set of beliefs that translate into starting programs and writing laws. He is, they say, more of a problem solver. He did it at Bain. He did it with the Olympics. Staffers recall after his election to governor he asked ‘okay, what are really the biggest problems the state has?” the he set on them.

So Mitt knows we still have a problem with health care and the uninsured in this country. Democrats should take heart even more than Republicans. ACA gets overturned, we still have the problems and Mitt solves problems.

It won’t take long for Republicans to think he’s a socialist Marxist Brit.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
4:14 pm

(ir)Rational: Adam – Agreed – Odd how we can have a discussion about something, not argue and come to a rational conclusion. Especially odd considering our political views, you’re always called a crazy left wing liberal, while I’m only called that on days when I piss off the conservatives for not agreeing with them.

:D

Oscar

April 12th, 2012
4:15 pm

ByteMe – Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
4:13 pm
When all the authors and original parties are dead, it’s hard to tell what they meant in case of a dispute.

Not to hear Scalia talk about it.

________
Maybe he has some direct connection that the rest of us don’t know about.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
4:15 pm

Oscar: Saying it is unconstiutional simply because you think is a bad idea that should not have been passed is a misuse of the courts and of the constitution.

As someone once said, paraphrasing, the question as to whether or not a law is dumb is very different from the question as to whether or not a law is Constitutional.

carlosgvv

April 12th, 2012
4:16 pm

AquaGirl – 3:57 – I am not religious. That was just an observation. Leaping to conclusions is no way to go thru life.

Joe Hussein Mama – 4:00 – I never said you “low lifes” did not have the right to express your views. Nor did I say every “low life” would object to the same things. Like AquaGirl, you do not engage brain befor shifitng mouth.

ByteMe - Political thug for sale

April 12th, 2012
4:17 pm

So you think the government should be able to regulate my decision not to buy a product or service?

They already do. Car insurance. You can’t go without it. And don’t try to claim that that’s a “state” thing, because if the Federal Constitution said they couldn’t do it, then they couldn’t do it. But it doesn’t say that.

BTW, just so we’re clear: what we ended up with is not what I wanted. I think Medicare should just have been extended to everyone and raise the puny medicare tax to cover it, while at the same time cutting costs to all businesses who buy health insurance for their employees.

But that doesn’t make what we got illegal either. Or legal. I personally think that based on recent precedence, it’s legal and will be upheld. But who knows?

Aquagirl

April 12th, 2012
4:17 pm

Why not let each individual family decide for their fallen loved one? Maybe a cross beside individual names if so desired?

That’s an acceptable idea. We could invent a special place called a “cemetery” and let everybody put what they want on a small plot of land, called a “grave.”

You might be onto something there.

Paul

April 12th, 2012
4:17 pm

(ir)Rational

“So you think the government should be able to regulate my decision not to buy a product or service? ”

Actually, what was argued before the Court was that they were regulating the point of payment.

Everyone will make demands on the health care system.

Those unable to pay shift costs to those with insurance.

Liberals think people should pay for their own care and stop expecting the government to provide care for ‘free’, like conservatives believe.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
4:18 pm

Towncrier: You’re making the case that you have a different interpretation of what the ninth amendment means. And that’s fine. But having that argument is separate from having an argument that treats that matter as settled. And it seems to me your argument stems from the idea that the ninth amendment can be essentially ignored in favor of the tenth.

barking frog

April 12th, 2012
4:19 pm

would two crosses widely
spaced be a religious
symbol?

getalife

April 12th, 2012
4:19 pm

Looks like the cnn publicity stunt for ratings worked.

wolf, how does it feel when the dems stab you in the back.

Hilary Rosen, I apologized. It is what it is.

Yellow journalism creates conflicts for ratings.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
4:19 pm

ObamaCare – I can’t move to a different country.

Why not?

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
4:20 pm

Paul,

The Family Research Council’s Tony Perkins told CNN minutes after Santorum suspended his campaign there is such a lack of enthusiasm for Romney that social conservative grass roots operations will likely turn away from the presidential race and towards efforts to put the Senate in GOP hands.

Veteran conservative strategist Ralph Reed is one of many who told CNN Romney “has some more work to do.”

Where should his focus be?

Appeal to evangelical voters through “general election messaging, the vice presidential selection, and the convention acceptance speech,” said Reed, who stressed he is “confident both Gov. Romney and his campaign know they have to build bridges to conservatives, and will work diligently to do so.”

“A Republican presidential candidate can’t win without a fully mobilized evangelical base. It’s impossible for Romney to win the general election without evangelicals,”

My Party has ALL the answers. Your party is full of poopyheads! (formerly That Black Guy)

April 12th, 2012
4:20 pm

Adam

April 12th, 2012
2:56 pm
I repeat:

Scout: HEADLINE: “Five kids and sixteen grandkids and Dem. advisor says Ann Romney has ‘never worked a day in her life’.”

Well I guess if you consider it a woman’s “job” to stay at home with the kids, that makes sense….
______________________________________________________________________________

*YOU* inserted the word JOB.

If I WORK in my yard, is that my JOB?

If she defines her JOB as raising her kids and taking care of her famili, who the he!! are YOU to say it isn’t.

G*D, you are SOOOOOOOOOO arrogant.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
4:20 pm

As you may know, before the start of every NACSAR race, a Christian minister says a prayer and often ends it “in Jesus name we pray”

Or “BOOGITY BOOGITY BOOGITY, AMEN!!!”

Towncrier

April 12th, 2012
4:21 pm

“No, it doesn’t. The majority cannot violate the rights of the minority.”

Yes, it does. Look at history. The 1896 Plessy ruling *proves* that. The majority of the SCOTUS voted to suppress the (unrecognized) rights of blacks.

“Clearly you are not.”

I guess I could make the equally absolute charge that clearly you are not for protecting against a tyranny of the minority.

Recon 0311 2533

April 12th, 2012
4:22 pm

“t’s more of a travesty that Marines would perform an unauthiorized, violative act instead of seeking proper authorization through their chain of command so that they could construct a memorial that would be inclusive”

Their chain of command on the base had no problem nor did their fellow Marines. It was esoteric among those who had deployed and lost fellow warriors. I’m surprised you don’t understand that and would join with this small group who would trivialize the supreme sacrifice these men made by promoting a self serving agenda that really dosen’t effect them in anyway.

(ir)Rational

April 12th, 2012
4:22 pm

ByteMe – I’m not going to go to the it is regulated by the state thing, for car insurance (even though it is, which does make it different). I’m going to go to the “I’m only required to buy car insurance to cover you in case I cause you harm or destroy your property” thing. Cause you know, or I would assume, that I’m not required by state law to buy insurance that covers me. Just required to buy it that covers my liability towards you.

Your solution might have been better. I’ll be curious to see how this could be redone/changed/replaced by depending on what the decision is by SCOTUS.

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
4:23 pm

Are we going to have to go to Arlington Cemetery and remove all the crosses and Stars of David etc from all the headstones? They are on Federal land.

I am certainly a big promoter of the separation of church and state, but who in the heck is harmed by the Camp Pendelton Memorial? If it comforts the superstitious people, the rest of us can ignore the crosses.

JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG

April 12th, 2012
4:23 pm

“So you think the government should be able to regulate my decision not to buy a product or service?”

They did when they made you go out and buy that cable box converter so you could watch TV.
(forgot who on here already pointed that out)

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
4:24 pm

Towncrier — “Why not let each individual family decide for their fallen loved one? Maybe a cross beside individual names if so desired?”

Why does a family have to use Federal land or facilities to pursue a *family* memorial? Can’t they do that in their home or on land they themselves own?

Adam

April 12th, 2012
4:24 pm

That Black Guy: *YOU* inserted the word JOB

Worthless semantics. If you’re making the case that raising her kids, as all that she did, was “work” in the sense that it is being related to other work by the person who said “she has never worked a day in her life,” it’s obvious she meant Ann hasn’t held a job, and that the person refuting that is setting up child rearing at home as a job.

Now, I realize you have some sort of obsession with finding fault in what I say, but what I said in this one is pretty damn sound. It also has absolutely nothing to do with arrogance on my part.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
4:24 pm

TBG @ 4:20

At times……….. I have to say you are correct……….

hahahahaha

Oscar

April 12th, 2012
4:25 pm

Adam

April 12th, 2012
4:15 pm
Oscar: Saying it is unconstiutional simply because you think is a bad idea that should not have been passed is a misuse of the courts and of the constitution.

As someone once said, paraphrasing, the question as to whether or not a law is dumb is very different from the question as to whether or not a law is Constitutional.

_________

Are you quoting me from two weeks ago or is that just a coincedence.

Scooter

April 12th, 2012
4:25 pm

I can understand Mitt’s reasoning; he allowed Massachusetts legislators to give the majority what they wanted, it is a deep blue state after all. It seems it would be something people like Jay would appreciate? But hey, you all acted like you appreciated McCain’s “moderation” too.

Americans want their government to put its fiscal house in order. But as usual, democrats want to increase taxes on the minority first and leave us to “hope” for the spending cuts. Like America hasn’t been to this rodeo before, unfortunately too many have an undying trust in politicians.

Paul

April 12th, 2012
4:26 pm

Jamvet

“Reed, who stressed he is “confident both Gov. Romney and his campaign know they have to build bridges to conservatives”

And if Romney gets elected, it’s evangelicals who darn well better start building bridges to him!

Remember the furor after Bush the Younger was elected and told evangelicals ‘thanks for your help, now get lost”?

getalife

April 12th, 2012
4:26 pm

Happy Birthday Romneycare.

Did he govern more liberal than our President?

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
4:26 pm

When all the authors and original parties are dead, it’s hard to tell what they meant in case of a dispute.

No doubt about that.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
4:26 pm

With that, I am out for the day.

Get over being butthurt over stuff I say, some of you. You’re free to scroll right past it.

Oscar

April 12th, 2012
4:26 pm

Well, the fact is, if a hundred per cent of the people in this country agree on something, they can amend the constitution to do it if they want. And that’s something all the founding fathers agreed on, and wrote about. That is why they provided that the constitution could be amended.

(ir)Rational

April 12th, 2012
4:26 pm

JOE COOL – But there is an out for that. I could just chose to not watch TV. I’m not required to own a TV. Nor am I required to use that TV. I am now required, or rather will be required to purchase a product simply because I exist. There is no out for that short of leaving the country.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
4:26 pm

“It’s indeed a travesty that a small group of narrow minded people would go to such an extreme”

Soooooo many things I could say to that…

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
4:27 pm

godless @ 4:23

While I agree with JHM in principle……………. IMO there is so much more to be concerned about

But I do respect her stance and thoughts without a doubt..

Just not as high on my priority list

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
4:27 pm

TBS — “JHM Maybe a symbol is added for every religious ideology and sect that has ever been represented and is currently represented in the military………. Me personally…………. I think there are bigger fish to fry than that issue. However I do respect your stance and calling out what many of those who do not agree with you end playing a semantics game with the symbolism…………… End of the day it is your tax dollars and right to speak up as much as it is anyone else’s”

FWIW, there are a LOT of different religious symbols that can now be placed on headstones in military cemeteries. There’s even an approved atheist symbol.

http://www.cem.va.gov/hm/hmemb.asp

Aquagirl

April 12th, 2012
4:27 pm

AquaGirl – 3:57 – I am not religious. That was just an observation. Leaping to conclusions is no way to go thru life.

Oh, sorry, I didn’t know you like the idea of “lowlifes” getting sh*t from an angry NASCAR crowd just because….I dunno, you enjoy such spectacles for their own sake? My deepest apologies. Apparently you are a freelance sadist.

Oscar

April 12th, 2012
4:28 pm

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
4:26 pm
When all the authors and original parties are dead, it’s hard to tell what they meant in case of a dispute.

No doubt about that.

_____

My company paid $50,00 to settle a case in just those circumstances. Original parties to a deed were all dead. Still think my interpretation was correct but too dangerous to litigate.

Recon 0311 2533

April 12th, 2012
4:28 pm

“I am certainly a big promoter of the separation of church and state, but who in the heck is harmed by the Camp Pendelton Memorial? If it comforts the superstitious people, the rest of us can ignore the crosses.”

That is the proper perspective on this issue.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
4:29 pm

Carlos — “Joe Hussein Mama – 4:00 – I never said you “low lifes” did not have the right to express your views. Nor did I say every “low life” would object to the same things. Like AquaGirl, you do not engage brain befor shifitng mouth.”

Speak for yourself. You called those people “low lifes” without having the least effing idea what they’re objecting to or what the ACLU does and doesn’t do.

You’re uninformed and ignorant, and insulting to boot. That said, if you can man up and admit you were wrong to use the term “low lifes,” I’m man enough to accept that and share some knowledge with you.

barking frog

April 12th, 2012
4:29 pm

Nancy Pelosi got her
famous quote from
observation of the
founding fathers who
passed the constitution
to see what was in it and
then amended it ten times.

JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG

April 12th, 2012
4:29 pm

“But there is an out for that. I could just chose to not watch TV.”

True, yet the same doesnt hold true for hospitals to NOT treat you due to you not having insurance.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
4:30 pm

b. frog — “would two crosses widely spaced be a religious symbol?”

Don’t you think that a *single* cross is a religious symbol?

getalife

April 12th, 2012
4:31 pm

It is good to have something to believe in but get your religion out of my politics.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
4:31 pm

“That’s an acceptable idea. We could invent a special place called a “cemetery” and let everybody put what they want on a small plot of land, called a “grave.””

Snark of the day. Love it.

My Party has ALL the answers. Your party is full of poopyheads! (formerly That Black Guy)

April 12th, 2012
4:31 pm

Adam

April 12th, 2012
3:16 pm
(ir)Rational: I agree with your points. Just saying that putting it in the context of “it’s a woman’s job to stay home with the kids” is insulting.
________________________________________________________________________

Adam, who has said that other than YOU?

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
4:32 pm

The only problem with those superstitious people is if you give them a millimeter they’ll insist on a mile.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
4:33 pm

Towncrier — “Yes, it does. Look at history. The 1896 Plessy ruling *proves* that. The majority of the SCOTUS voted to suppress the (unrecognized) rights of blacks.”

To adapt your own words, that was a problem 50+ years ago, and we’ve moved beyond that.

“I guess I could make the equally absolute charge that clearly you are not for protecting against a tyranny of the minority.”

You could, but you’d be wrong. I’ve already pointed out many ways in which a collaborative solution could be reached. You’ve offered nothing besides ’suck it up and come back in a century, atheist.’

Scooter

April 12th, 2012
4:34 pm

Oh, how about this… I can’t believe democrats can so adoringly support a President who ordered the execution of an American citizen without affording them their due process. Anwar Awlaki anyone?

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
4:34 pm

Paul, I recently read a great article by Rocky Anderson, former mayor of Salt Lake City and current candidate for President of the United States of America.

He talked about how he worked closely with Romney and “how solid he was”. He explained how he was a moderate who could never have won the Massachusetts state house otherwise.

But now? He says he can’t even recognize him.

THAT is the magnitude of the sell out that Romney has become on his transparent fools errand.

Pandering to the evangelicals has become the Judas kiss of death.

Time for a Space in Time…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrwk9SvdaLk

Towncrier

April 12th, 2012
4:35 pm

“Towncrier: You’re making the case that you have a different interpretation of what the ninth amendment means. And that’s fine. But having that argument is separate from having an argument that treats that matter as settled. And it seems to me your argument stems from the idea that the ninth amendment can be essentially ignored in favor of the tenth.”

No. The 9th was included to placate the Federalists who supposed that since the Constitution gave only those powers to the federal government it enumerated, the Bill of Rights wanted by the Anti-Federalists would imply that these were the only rights available to people. That is why I see it as more of a disclaimer. Bork considered it an inkblot it said so little definitively. But what rights are referred to in the 9th is a matter of much debate. Some have argued state’s rights. The SCOTUS is not necessarily right about everything, don’t you know? If the rights refer to those of the people, then only those rights enjoyed at the ratification of the Constitution should logically be in view – and not, say, a right to gay marriage. Because otherwise you have the SCOTUS defining rights when, in fact, in was the Congress that did so for the first 200 years of our nation’s being. The SCOTUS defining individual rights goes only back to the time of Roe vs. Wade. We have amendments giving women, blacks and 18 year olds the right to vote for instance. This can be done for every other right. Minority rights can be defined and protected by individual states.

barking frog

April 12th, 2012
4:36 pm

JHM
not if it represents where
a thief was hung.

getalife

April 12th, 2012
4:36 pm

You don’t want Shaia law here so that is getting your religion out of politics.

Be consistent cons..

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
4:37 pm

Recon — “Their chain of command on the base had no problem”

Wrong. Read your own link.

“Torpey says the original Marines, while good intentioned, overstepped their bounds by building a shrine without approval or notice from the Corps.”

“nor did their fellow Marines. It was esoteric among those who had deployed and lost fellow warriors.”

That’s beside the point.

“I’m surprised you don’t understand that and would join with this small group who would trivialize the supreme sacrifice these men made”

I’ve done no such thing. I’ve pointed out several ways in which the memorial could be amended to satisfy everyone involved.

“by promoting a self serving agenda that really dosen’t effect them in anyway.”

Please explain to me precisely how removing the crosses is a “self serving agenda.”

pogo

April 12th, 2012
4:38 pm

It is fascinating to see how fast the liberals eat their own. Ms. Rosen is a prime example. Obama threw her under the bus faster than he threw the dis-honorable Rev. Wright, which is very fast. What I do find comical is Obama talking about Michelle being forced to work back in Chicago. For some mysterious reason, really high paying jobs that weren’t that well defined and which weren’t that important just appeared for her in much the same manner that the road was laid open before Obama and his career. Obama has never been exceptional in his contribution to our society in any endeavour either prior to or after he became president. He was and is nothing special but someone somewhere saw him as a means to an end (at least they thought this). His sponsors crafted and molded their puppet in the image they wanted him to be. Obama is nothing but an image as there is really no substance there at all.

Paul

April 12th, 2012
4:39 pm

Scooter

“a President who ordered the execution of an American citizen without affording them their due process.”

What makes you think due process wasn’t afforded?

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
4:40 pm

G. Heathen — “Are we going to have to go to Arlington Cemetery and remove all the crosses and Stars of David etc from all the headstones? They are on Federal land.”

Formal approval was sought for those religious symbols, and anyone of any faith (including atheists, humanists and freethinkers) can petition the VA to have a symbol added if there’s not an approved one that suits a given veteran.

“I am certainly a big promoter of the separation of church and state, but who in the heck is harmed by the Camp Pendelton Memorial?”

Harm isn’t the issue.

“If it comforts the superstitious people, the rest of us can ignore the crosses.”

Why should we?

getalife

April 12th, 2012
4:40 pm

pogo,

I think the dems are commies bs is a better distraction.

Aquagirl

April 12th, 2012
4:40 pm

not if it represents where a thief was hung.

Are our Marines celebrating the military tradition of soldiers nailing thieves on pieces of wood? Geez, now I’m really against this.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
4:40 pm

Recon 0311 2533.

“a self serving agenda that really dosen’t effect them in anyway.”

Just out of curiosity…you always seem to post these things about groups taking down religious symbols in public places, and your argument always seems to be that the groups or individuals doing away with these symbols are selfish about not thinking about what others may feel from seeing these symbols.

Yet, do you ever look it at it from the other perspective? How would you feel if all of these symbols were Crescents? Would you feel the same way?

I would argue that it is less Christ-like to demand everyone view your religion’s symbol at the expense of their discomfort, than to think of everyone’s comfort. I thought you carried Christ in your heart, not on a mountain.

Towncrier

April 12th, 2012
4:41 pm

Why does a family have to use Federal land or facilities to pursue a *family* memorial? Can’t they do that in their home or on land they themselves own?

The answer should be obvious: the soldier died for his or her country and should honored by that country if the family so desires. What is wrong with my proposal? Why should a grieving family have to pay for and maintain a private memorial because you are offended by a cross being placed next to his or her name???

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
4:42 pm

Recon — “That is the proper perspective on this issue.”

How would you feel about it if the crosses were removed and you were asked to simply ‘ignore’ the fact that they weren’t there any more?

My Party has ALL the answers. Your party is full of poopyheads! (formerly That Black Guy)

April 12th, 2012
4:42 pm

re: hank Johnsot and Guam.

Many are saying he didn’t mean what he said.

1) How do you know he didn’t mean it?
2) Can people be THAT stupid and still be elected to congress?

If your answer to 2 is no, I say you need to pay more attention.

Mr_B

April 12th, 2012
4:42 pm

Jm: I understand your clarification. I thought you were referring to the ACA.

However Romneycare isn’t the only factor
“The state has been hit hard by the housing downturn and the weakening economy. It has proposed cuts to education and health care but is now facing an even larger-than-expected shortfall and is considering additional cuts”
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/08/12/1218_shortfall_states/17.htm.
What’s Georgia’s excuse?

Paul

April 12th, 2012
4:43 pm

JamVet

“But now? He says he can’t even recognize him..”

That’s my experience.

If one wants to apportion fault, I’ll offer it’s the fault of the Republican special interest power broker zealots. Anybody who doesn’t do the limbo when they whistle is going the way of Huntsman.

It’s interesting, isn’t it? Before Romney got lost in ConAppeasement Land, both he and Huntsman, both LDS running for national office, were perceived as practical moderates more interested in solutions than in labels.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
4:43 pm

Howdy Paul,

“Actually, what was argued before the Court was that they were regulating the point of payment.”

Very interesting point. I hadn’t really thought of it that way.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
4:43 pm

I say just mount a great big old Star of David, a Star & Crescent, an Om, a Dharmacakra and a Five-pointed Star within a Circle and we’ve almost got it covered, heathen.

Wouldn’t want to forget about comforting those superstitious types.. (grin)

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
4:44 pm

b. frog — “JHM not if it represents where a thief was hung.”

Good point. We’d better remove them, just to be sure. Then we can start over and make it a non-sectarian memorial. We wouldn’t want anyone to see any of those thief-hanging kinds of crosses up on a hill at Pendleton and get the wrong idea.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
4:45 pm

Anybody who doesn’t do the limbo when they whistle is going the way of Huntsman.

Too funny.

Are you sure limbo is not a typo for Limbaugh?

How do you spell Republican?

P – u – r – i – t – y T – e – s – t.

Paul

April 12th, 2012
4:46 pm

JamVet

“Pandering to the evangelicals has become the Judas kiss of death.”

And that’s the rub. They have to turn traitor to get the nod. Then they have to repent and turn from their misguided ways and purify themselves of the taint of their former evangelical associates.

And hope people buy it.

getalife

April 12th, 2012
4:46 pm

We are beating China on green energy.

Thanks Obama.

Need more investments to control our energy policy.

barking frog

April 12th, 2012
4:46 pm

AquaGirl
did you think the three
crosses depicted the
trinity ? urine may have
been involved when they
were taken down.

Towncrier

April 12th, 2012
4:47 pm

How do you spell Democrat?

P-r-a-c-t-i-c-a-l-l-y-a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g-g-o-e-s.

Paul

April 12th, 2012
4:47 pm

jewcowboy

Attorneys can come up with some novel explanations when trying to sell a point to the minds on the Court.

Aquagirl

April 12th, 2012
4:48 pm

I say just mount a great big old Star of David, a Star & Crescent, an Om, a Dharmacakra and a Five-pointed Star within a Circle and we’ve almost got it covered, heathen.

I demand a plate of spaghetti.

http://www.venganza.org/

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
4:48 pm

Towncrier — “The answer should be obvious: the soldier died for his or her country and should honored by that country if the family so desires.”

Fine. Then they can bury that veteran in a Federal military cemetery, have the religious symbol of their choice emblazoned on the headstone, and return as much as they like to place symbols, remembrances, flowers or other items on that grave, and no one will bother them. Everyone wins.

“What is wrong with my proposal? Why should a grieving family have to pay for and maintain a private memorial”

If they’re not satisfied with interment in a Federal military cemetery, then I think they *should* have to pay for and maintain a private memorial.

“because you are offended by a cross being placed next to his or her name???

Who said I was offended?

Mr_B

April 12th, 2012
4:48 pm

And again to Jm.
http://www.masstaxpayers.org/files/Health%20care-NT.pdf

For the first four years of Romneycare.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
4:48 pm

jewcowboy @ 4:40

While I have already stated that this issue is not one of my top prioroties, along with the 10 commandments in courthouses, it strikes me that many people I have personally talked too or heard on tv…… are not for this “symbolism” as it is coily

Recon 0311 2533

April 12th, 2012
4:48 pm

Joe, evidently you neglected to read it yourself or you would have known what the Col. a ranking Camp Pendelton officer had to say. Apparently, you only read Torpey who doesn’t speak for Marine Corps command. godless heathen has the correct point of view. Once again this was not intended to be a religious memorial. Have you ever been in Washington D.C. and saw all of the Christian symbolism? I’m certain that if you have based on your personal views you ignored them and there isn’t anything wrong with you doing so. Torpey and his little group should do the very same thing and since they’re not Marine Corps or base personnel they’re well buffered from the symbol they resent so much.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
4:49 pm

Towncrier,

“Why should a grieving family have to pay for and maintain a private memorial because you are offended by a cross being placed next to his or her name?”

To reiterate Aquagirl’s comment…isn’t that what a grave is for?

Paul

April 12th, 2012
4:49 pm

JamVet

“I say just mount a great big old Star of David, a Star & Crescent, an Om, a Dharmacakra and a Five-pointed Star within a Circle and we’ve almost got it covered, heathen.”

When Bosch returns I’m sure he’ll agree to do a Pagan dance naked in the moonlight dedication for ya’.

Towncrier

April 12th, 2012
4:50 pm

“Fine. Then they can bury that veteran in a Federal military cemetery, have the religious symbol of their choice emblazoned on the headstone, and return as much as they like to place symbols, remembrances, flowers or other items on that grave, and no one will bother them. Everyone wins.”

That suits me.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
4:50 pm

phrased by some when other religions are mentioned…………

I can’t say that is all people by any means, but many do NOT want other religions symbols in the same places that they will debate and argue for their own………………….

But it is just “symbolism”, right?

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
4:51 pm

jewcowboy

Apologize for the split response to your 4:40… you will have to read my 4:48 and 4:50

Aquagirl

April 12th, 2012
4:52 pm

urine may have been involved when they were taken down.

I watched some pretty interesting stuff on the mechanics of crucifixion last weekend. And my answer is still no, I must have missed that part.

barking frog

April 12th, 2012
4:53 pm

JHM
empty space would be non
sectarian or maybe atheism.

Towncrier

April 12th, 2012
4:54 pm

Out…gn all.

Oscar

April 12th, 2012
4:54 pm

My Party has ALL the answers. Your party is full of poopyheads! (formerly That Black Guy)

April 12th, 2012
4:42 pm
re: hank Johnsot and Guam.

Many are saying he didn’t mean what he said.

1) How do you know he didn’t mean it?
2) Can people be THAT stupid and still be elected to congress?

If your answer to 2 is no, I say you need to pay more attention.

___________

I think he used the wrong words. It was correct to inquire if Guan had a sufficient hard rock base to withstand the weight of the proposed construction without some sinking. Much like the ground under the Georgia Tech dorms sank. Some islands are made of coral and could not support heavy infrastructure. Capsize was not an appropreiate term. Why Hand used that word is something to ask him.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
4:54 pm

They BOTH suck,

“you will have to read my 4:48 and 4:50″

I was wondering ;)

“But it is just “symbolism”, right?”

A salient point.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
4:55 pm

Recon — “Joe, evidently you neglected to read it yourself or you would have known what the Col. a ranking Camp Pendelton officer had to say.”

Approval was neither sought nor granted. You know as well as I do that structures/facilities on military posts aren’t put up at the behest of the post CO or provost; they require approval at higher headquarters.

“Apparently, you only read Torpey who doesn’t speak for Marine Corps command.”

And that COL doesn’t speak for higher HQ.

“godless heathen has the correct point of view. Once again this was not intended to be a religious memorial.”

Fine. Then we can remove the crosses and the issue goes away.

“Have you ever been in Washington D.C. and saw all of the Christian symbolism?”

I worked in DC for almost two years. You do realize that the vast majority of the District *isn’t* Federal land, don’t you?

“I’m certain that if you have based on your personal views you ignored them and there isn’t anything wrong with you doing so.”

You know, I participated in the Godless Americans’ March on Washington in the fall of 2002, and there were over 30 different theist groups there picketing us. You think they could have ignored us? (laughing) :D

“Torpey and his little group should do the very same thing and since they’re not Marine Corps or base personnel they’re well buffered from the symbol they resent so much.”

Who said anyone resented crosses?

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
4:56 pm

Towncrier — “That suits me.”

Excellent. We are in agreement on that point then. :)

n

April 12th, 2012
4:56 pm

Most insurers are linked by national and international risk-sharing reinsurance contracts. See e.g. Lloyds of London. If that ain’t interstate commerce, I don’t know what is.
FEMA mandates flood insurance. etc. etc. FHA mandates mortgage insurance. It’s all evolved over decades. Obamacare cannot be thrown out without undercutting decades of federal law.
The alternative that the Right embraces is not states’ rights vs. federalism, it is”every man for himself”–aka anarchy. They would demolish the whole structure and evolution of American jurisprudence.

Paul

April 12th, 2012
4:56 pm

Recon

“Have you ever been in Washington D.C. and saw all of the Christian symbolism?”

Masonic symbolism.

Wassamatta, you never saw ‘National Treasure’?

Paul

April 12th, 2012
4:56 pm

Recon

Then again, Christian symbolism, Masonic symbolism, same basic stuff.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
4:57 pm

Jeez, Crier is trying to Joe Biden me.

Aquagirl, you crack me up. I love your take on things.

That site is crazy cool.

I did watch a wonderful old movie, The Song of Bernadette recently. The beautiful Tulsa-born, 24 year-old Jennifer Jones played the French girl in Lourdes who saw the visions of the Blessed Virgin Mary. She won the best actress for the role. In her third film ever!

It was compelling because I found myself challenging my own assumptions about such tales and was really cheering for the protagonist.

If you get the chance, I really recommend it…

(ir)Rational

April 12th, 2012
4:57 pm

I’m out. Y’all have a good evening.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
4:58 pm

b. frog — “JHM empty space would be non sectarian or maybe atheism.”

Non-sectarian, IMO.

People can certainly bring their religious texts to such a memorial and pray, read and reflect to their hearts’ content. I just don’t think that religious symbols belong there, particularly absent some sort of official consideration and imprimatur. And certainly adherents of other faith and philosophical traditions should be given the opportunity to sound off before permanent plans are made.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
4:58 pm

“Once again this was not intended to be a religious memorial.”

Yes, certainly, because when I see giant white crosses I naturally think of something else besides the Christian religion. Just like when I see a Star of David I naturally think of coasters, or when I see a Crescent I think think of seashells.

(Actually truth be told, when I see almost anything I think of sex, but that just may be me. I’m not that evolved.)

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
5:03 pm

TBS — “I can’t say that is all people by any means, but many do NOT want other religions symbols in the same places that they will debate and argue for their own…………………. But it is just “symbolism”, right?”

So they say, but they often give themselves away.

The no-sales-on-Sunday adherents tried to shift their argument, claiming that they only wanted on day where alcohol wasn’t sold, but I doubt you’d have been able to convince them that it should be, for example, Tuesday instead of Sunday.

Hey, people are still off work on Sundays. How come they can’t buy a six-pack then? Everyone’s back to work by Tuesday, and the hangover has worn off, so let’s make Tuesday the no-drinkie day.

What say you, Sunday-sales opposers? Would you have accepted that?

Jack Daniels sold on Sundays. Hallelujah! :D

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
5:07 pm

When I see a Crescent, I think of Pillsbury. And dinner. And Rolls. And margarine or butter.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
5:08 pm

JHM

While not having the same passion on the issue as you do, it is so transparent………

Just bring up other religions and their “symbols” being given the same access on government property and a good percentage will not agree or change the subject………

Paul

April 12th, 2012
5:10 pm

BOTH suck

It’s like when I drive thru towns and see “Dave’s Christian Bookstore’ with a huge sign out front.

I wonder what reaction would be from the Planning Commission and citizens if it were to read “Dave’s Muslim Bookstore.”

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
5:11 pm

TaxPayer,

“think of Pillsbury”

Are you saying the Doughboy is a Muslim secretly trying to install sharia law in the US?

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
5:11 pm

TBS — “Just bring up other religions and their “symbols” being given the same access on government property and a good percentage will not agree or change the subject………”

Or just look on this thread. Two people accused me of being ‘offended’ by the christian cross.

It’s hard to make that accusation credibly when one of my suggestions was to make the memorial site non-sectarian and include other symbols.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
5:12 pm

They BOTH suck,

“a good percentage will not agree or change the subject………”

Kind of like my questions to Recon that never received answer?

“Yet, do you ever look it at it from the other perspective? How would you feel if all of these symbols were Crescents? Would you feel the same way?”

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
5:13 pm

jcb — “Are you saying the Doughboy is a Muslim secretly trying to install sharia law in the US?”

All shall bow to His Yeasty Goodness.

WHITE FLOUR!

:D

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
5:13 pm

Paul,

“I wonder what reaction would be from the Planning Commission and citizens if it were to read “Dave’s Muslim Bookstore.”

Or “The Love Shack: Adult bookstore”

Recon 0311 2533

April 12th, 2012
5:14 pm

“Approval was neither sought nor granted. You know as well as I do that structures/facilities on military posts aren’t put up at the behest of the post CO or provost; they require approval at higher headquarters.”

Joe now I’m certain you didn’t read the entire article or viewed the video. That fallen Marine warrior memorial had been there for 10 years. You honestly believe that base command as well as in all probability Marine Corps command were unaware of it’s existence? You don’t know much about Marine culture but you shouldn’t be expected to know much. Camp Pendelton is a large military reservation with a lot of remote infantry training areas. This memorial is way out in one of the most remote areas of the base. Torpey and his little group of people haven’t even been there. The chain of command would and did not have a problem with what was built on that remote hill because it was non-obtrusive and it provided a morale boost for troopers going through multiple deployments.

barking frog

April 12th, 2012
5:14 pm

jcb
don’t know about sharia
but he shot linda in the back of the head.

My Party has ALL the answers. Your party is full of poopyheads! (formerly That Black Guy)

April 12th, 2012
5:14 pm

Adam

April 12th, 2012
4:24 pm
That Black Guy: *YOU* inserted the word JOB

Worthless semantics. – Adam, do/have you EVER made an arguement based on semantics?

If you’re making the case that raising her kids, as all that she did, was “work” in the sense that it is being related to other work by the person who said “she has never worked a day in her life,” – Make a hole and make it wide, GOALPOSTS coming through!

it’s obvious she meant Ann hasn’t held a job, and that the person refuting that is setting up child rearing at home as a job. – and you read her mind? Or did you believe her revised explanation after she started catching heat for her statements.
______________________________________________________________________________
Once, again, do you ever read what you post?

Aquagirl

April 12th, 2012
5:14 pm

empty space would be non sectarian or maybe atheism

No, atheists are stuck with a whirly-atom that looks like something from “the Jetsons.” I really think a plate of spaghetti would be more dignified.

Check out 45. That’s how Leonard Nimoy came up with the Vulcan hand greeting, but I don’t think it would be appropriate for me to steal someone’s sacred symbol just so passerby could look at my marker and go “Trekkie!” I’m tacky, but not that tacky.

http://www.cem.va.gov/hm/hmemb.asp

My Party has ALL the answers. Your party is full of poopyheads! (formerly That Black Guy)

April 12th, 2012
5:16 pm

Adam

April 12th, 2012
4:26 pm
With that, I am out for the day.

Get over being butthurt over stuff I say, some of you. You’re free to scroll right past it.
__________________________________________________________________________

It’s more fun giving you some of your own medicine.

Read your posts sometimes.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
5:17 pm

Recon — “Joe now I’m certain you didn’t read the entire article or viewed the video. That fallen Marine warrior memorial had been there for 10 years. You honestly believe that base command as well as in all probability Marine Corps command were unaware of it’s existence?”

Didn’t say they were *unaware* of it. I said that approval was not granted, and that’s supported by your own link.

“You don’t know much about Marine culture but you shouldn’t be expected to know much. Camp Pendelton is a large military reservation with a lot of remote infantry training areas. This memorial is way out in one of the most remote areas of the base. Torpey and his little group of people haven’t even been there. The chain of command would and did not have a problem with what was built on that remote hill because it was non-obtrusive and it provided a morale boost for troopers going through multiple deployments.”

Marines are not cowboys, and they don’t get to set their own rules.

Now, I’ve made several suggestions about how we could meet in the middle on this. Do you have anything constructive to recommend that we could discuss?

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
5:17 pm

My wife will not let me have anything other than whole wheat crescent rolls.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
5:17 pm

jewcowboy @ 5:12

BINGO……………….

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
5:20 pm

Hey Aquagirl. they’ve got the Jews for Jesus thing right above that one! I’ve got one of those!

josef, would love #12.

Also, I totally did #32.

And #16 is great.

This is starting to sound like I’m ordering off of a Chinese menu…

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
5:21 pm

Aquagirl — “No, atheists are stuck with a whirly-atom that looks like something from “the Jetsons.” I really think a plate of spaghetti would be more dignified. ”

I personally find the Humanist symbol (#32) much more dignified than the Atheist symbol.

Lyman Hall

April 12th, 2012
5:23 pm

Just a drive by————-
.
If its on property that the Federal government has stolen from some individual………..then the only symbol, sign, or insigna authorized should be something that depicts the Federal government.
.
I would suggest the Nazi Deathhead or maybe a mushroom cloud.
No one should want The cross or star of David anywhere near a Federal facility……or what they stand for.
.
Carry on.

Aquagirl

April 12th, 2012
5:23 pm

I personally find the Humanist symbol (#32) much more dignified than the Atheist symbol.

I look at it and think “YMCA,” or “men’s room.”

barking frog

April 12th, 2012
5:24 pm

aqua girl
he’s dead, jim.

Don't Tread

April 12th, 2012
5:24 pm

There’s a few more anniversaries Mitt would like to forget.

Paul

April 12th, 2012
5:25 pm

jewcowboy

When I was a kid we were out driving and I asked my mom “what’s an adult bookstore?” She said “it’s a book for adults. Children have their own bookstores.” I came back with “but I read lots of adult books (I was into novels at a real young age). Let’s stop!’ Mom: NO. Me: why not?

and so it went. I was not easily distracted.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
5:26 pm

Aquagirl — “I look at it and think “YMCA,” or “men’s room.”

I LOLed. :D

Recon 0311 2533

April 12th, 2012
5:27 pm

“Now, I’ve made several suggestions about how we could meet in the middle on this. Do you have anything constructive to recommend that we could discuss?”

It’s not your place nor mine to make that determination as to what should be acceptable. It’s up to the military. If Mr. Torpey had just one ounce of human decency and appreciation for what these people have gone through he’d see it that way to. I’m out

Paul

April 12th, 2012
5:27 pm

Lyman

“No one should want The cross or star of David anywhere near a Federal facility……or what they stand for.”

Gonna send your social security check back to the federal government and all it stands for?

Paul

April 12th, 2012
5:29 pm

Recon

“It’s up to the military.”

Well, as part of the Executive, the military’s subject to this minor annoyance known as federal law…..

And I think they report to these guys who’re civilians…..

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
5:29 pm

Romneycare?

Well heck I imagine libruls will all be voting for this guy who succeeded in bringing universal health coverage to the citizens of his state. Right???

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
5:30 pm

Joe Hussein Mama @ 5.13,

:lol:

Lyman Hall

April 12th, 2012
5:31 pm

Paul————
there’ll be no SS checks for me.
And unless you’re within 5 years of getting one…………..you’ll not get one either.
.
Keep whistling.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
5:31 pm

barking frog,

“but he shot linda in the back of the head.”

A despicable act of domestic terrorism.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
5:33 pm

Recon — “It’s not your place nor mine to make that determination as to what should be acceptable.”

As an American citizen, it is ABSOLUTELY my place to be able to comment on this, despite your intemperate complaints and baseless accusations of ‘offense’ on my part earlier.

“It’s up to the military.”

More correctly, it’s up to higher HQ. And if they determine that the memorial should be changed, I hope you can accept that decision. After all, we wouldn’t want you *complaining* about it like Torpey’s group. It’s not your place, right?

“If Mr. Torpey had just one ounce of human decency and appreciation for what these people have gone through he’d see it that way to.”

I have no idea why you can’t seem to understand that no one’s trying to *remove* the memorial.

“I’m out”

Drive safely and have a pleasant evening.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
5:33 pm

So I see Obama’s press secretary trying to defend the administration’s war on moms when the press asked him about Hilary Rosen’s comments about Ann Romney. They asked him about Ms. Rosen and he replied ” I know 3 Hilary Rosens”.

Really Mr. Carney? You know 3 Hillary Rosens?

Yep. And Doomy personally 16 Engelbart Micklebauers.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
5:35 pm

Doom — “Yep. And Doomy personally 16 Engelbart Micklebauers.”

Sounds like you win at roulette or something. :D

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
5:37 pm

Paul,

“(I was into novels at a real young age).”

My first novel was “Valley of the Dolls”. I read that when I was 8, quickly followed by Sidney Sheldon’s “Master of the Game.” Both set me up for some disappointments in reality.

Paul

April 12th, 2012
5:39 pm

Okay Lyman

Gonna buy only food not inspected by the federal government?

Travel on planes not under federal control?

Not expect those evil SEALs to risk their lives for you if you’re traveling overseas and get kidnapped?

Gonna tell the FBI to ‘get lost’ if a family member gets kidnapped?

Well, of course you’re going to do all those things. ‘Cause you know the federal government is e’vil, right?

Recon 0311 2533

April 12th, 2012
5:39 pm

Well before I checked out I see Paul weighs in. Let me leave you with this Paul, the civilians you reference in the command chain are politicians. Do you really think that politicians would like to get involved in an issue that not only deserves to be decided within the military command but an issue they really wouldn’t want to stick their necks out that could potentally inflame their constituents?

Paul

April 12th, 2012
5:41 pm

Lyman

“And unless you’re within 5 years of getting one…………..you’ll not get one either.”

You really don’t know much about the financial status of the Social Security system, do you?

That’s okay. We have plenty of uninformed bloggers who just like to see their words in print. You’ll fit right in.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
5:42 pm

“Once, again, do you ever read what you post?” FTBG to Adam

(formerly That Black Guy),

It seems you’re forgetting the Adam book of Rules that we formulated earlier. A little refresher is in order here.

Rule 2. Adam is allowed to play semantics games in his arguments. You are not.

Rule 3. It is not important that Adam actually read the nonsense that he himself posted.

Rule 4. You are not allowed to call him out on his nonsense.

Rule 5. Most importantly do not insult Adam’s intelligence by suggesting he actually believes what he posts.

Paul

April 12th, 2012
5:43 pm

Thulsa Doom

Democrats handed Republicans a gift to exploit. Carney can do lots better than that.

Then again, much of the initial response has been pretty over the top by a lot of fakely outraged bloviators.

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
5:43 pm

Recon — “Do you really think that politicians would like to get involved in an issue that not only deserves to be decided within the military command”

Fortunately, policy is decided *above* the uniformed level.

“but an issue they really wouldn’t want to stick their necks out that could potentally inflame their constituents?”

Because you and people like you are totally inflexible about that memorial and won’t accept any changes or amendments?

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
5:43 pm

“So I see Obama’s press secretary trying to defend the administration’s war on moms”

And I see “conservatives” are trying to hide their recent “war” on women with a bright shiny object. When is Rosen going to mandate a 18″ wand shoved up the Romney’s vagina to have a legal medical procedure?

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
5:44 pm

Joe Mama,

I personally knows all of them Engelbart Micklebauers.

Paul

April 12th, 2012
5:45 pm

jewcowboy

I was reading a James Bond novel in 6th grade. The teacher grabbed it from me and demanded (in front of the class) to know why my parents were letting me read filth.

I never was very good at letting a good setup line go to waste -

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
5:45 pm

Recon 0311 2533,

“Do you really think that politicians would like to get involved”

Maybe, maybe not…but I have heard of this thing called the judiciary.

Recon 0311 2533

April 12th, 2012
5:45 pm

Because you and people like you are totally inflexible about that memorial and won’t accept any changes or amendments?

Joe there’s a lot of us. Enjoy the evening.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
5:47 pm

“When is Rosen going to mandate a 18″ wand shoved up the Romney’s vagina to have a legal medical procedure?’

This from the guys who want mandated universal health coverage. Ya’ll needs to make up your minds. Do you want all kinds of stuff mandated or not? Do you love universal health coverage when its passed by Obama and hate it when its passed on the state level by Romney? Yep. It appears you do. Libruls- they do love they mandates by the feds they do.

Paul

April 12th, 2012
5:48 pm

You just love moving those goalposts, don’t you, Recon?

You said it was an issue to be decided by the military.

I noted they report to civilians. Who have a tendency to set policy with national implications.

Whether they want to or not is irrelevant.

Didn’t they teach you that on your way to VietNam?

Paul

April 12th, 2012
5:50 pm

jewcowboy

“but I have heard of this thing called the judiciary.”

Recon’s checked out, but I’ll ask the question for him so he can read it when he returns.

Ready? Okay…

What’s the ‘judiciary’?

Aquagirl

April 12th, 2012
5:50 pm

Joe there’s a lot of us.

And everyone knows Jesus was really into the mob scene. If you don’t like what the crowd’s doing, shaddup and stop making trouble.

pogo

April 12th, 2012
5:51 pm

Jay says he is “astonished” that Romney doesn’t celebrate that legislation in Mass. all those years ago. Well, “Romneycare” didn’t relinquish control of 1/3 of the budget and the control of it’s citizens of the United States to the Federal Government did it? I guess you are really astonished that the anniversary of Obamacare was largely ignored by the Obama Administration aren’t you? Does the DNC pay you for this crap? Are you a paid operative like some of your regulars here?

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
5:51 pm

Paul,

“I never was very good at letting a good setup line go to waste -”

HA! I had to have a parent/teacher conference because I did a book report on “The Love Machine”. To my Mom’s credit, after first b8tching about having to take off work, asked, “Is the reading material above or below the level being taught in the course?”

To which the answer was, “Above”

My Mom answered, “Then I will kindly thank you to not waste my time with these meetings until such time as he is reading below the course level.”

Joe Hussein Mama

April 12th, 2012
5:52 pm

Recon — “Joe there’s a lot of us.”

There are a lot of us, too.

Maybe we’d all be better served if you got to know us, and got to know *about* us, more than the obviously limited amount you already do.

“Enjoy the evening.”

And you as well.

I’m out also. All be well and drive safely.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
5:53 pm

Thulsa Doom,

“This from the guys who want mandated universal health coverage”

Yes, because being forced to pay for a procedure is the same as having that procedure forced upon you.

barking frog

April 12th, 2012
5:53 pm

Paul
a group of illiterate jews.

Vast Right Wing Conspiracy

April 12th, 2012
5:54 pm

He could claim that Ted Kennedy threatened to drive him over a bridge unless he implemented it, or temporary insanity from living in the People’s Republic of Massachusetts.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
5:56 pm

Paul,

‘What’s the ‘judiciary’?”

Ask Former Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore. ;)

Paul

April 12th, 2012
5:56 pm

pogo

“Well, “Romneycare” didn’t relinquish control of 1/3 of the budget and the control of it’s citizens of the United States to the Federal Government did it? ”

They really mucked it up in Massachusetts. I like how we’ve set it up already. No need for the feds to control everything. Our current system works just fine since we’ve turned over control to insurance companies. Hey, just because 1/3 of our premium dollars goes to insurance overhead and administrative costs just shows those guys know how to make a buck!

Besides that, families like paying a grand a year to cover people with no insurance! We can’t let them mess that up, either.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
5:57 pm

Jewcowboy,

So can you provide the link where Repubs are forcing an 18 inch device into woman. Hard to believe the Dems would allow such rape of women to occur by them knuckle dragging neanderthals.

Fred ™

April 12th, 2012
5:58 pm

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
5:37 pm

Paul,

“(I was into novels at a real young age).”

My first novel was “Valley of the Dolls”. I read that when I was 8, quickly followed by Sidney Sheldon’s “Master of the Game.” Both set me up for some disappointments in reality.
++++++++++++++++++++

Really? I thought you were older than that lol.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
6:01 pm

“Then again, much of the initial response has been pretty over the top by a lot of fakely outraged bloviators.”

Agreed. Kinda like the fake war on women because Sandra Fluke’s friend couldn’t get her birth control paid for by other taxpayers.

Ya’ll ought to know by now that when libs show their blatant hypocrisy we’re gonna coming after them. Doomy gonna bring it.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
6:01 pm

Thulsa Doom,

“So can you provide the link where Repubs are forcing an 18 inch device into woman”

Look up “virginia transvaginal ultrasound bill”…there will plenty of links.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
6:03 pm

“He could claim that Ted Kennedy threatened to drive him over a bridge unless he implemented it”

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAAAHAHAHHAH.

Come on now. Ya’ll know that’s funny.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
6:06 pm

jewcowboy,

Can you summarize it in one sentence? If I’m correct is it just requiring that an ultrasound be conducted before a woman gets an abortion? And if so wouldn’t they then stick something in the woman for the abortion also?

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

April 12th, 2012
6:06 pm

George Zimmerman looked pretty good in court for a guy whose nose was broken and head was bashed against the sidewalk.

There wasn’t even a mark on him and his nose was pretty straight.

Its quite remarkable.

I gotta find out who his doctor is.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
6:06 pm

Fred ™,

“Really? I thought you were older than that lol.”

VoD was released in 1966…that would make me 52. I am NOT 52. Not that there is anything wrong with being 52…I would just like the years to get there.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
6:07 pm

That Black Guy: Her statement was pretty clear from the start. If, however, you have a DIFFERENT interpretation of what it means when someone says that someone else “has not worked a day in her life,” then let’s hear it. Otherwise, it’s pretty obvious what is meant by that. No mind reading needed. As such, no goal posts were moved. It seems you are just trying to “give me a taste of my own medicine” even when it doesn’t apply.

For example, Moving the goalposts: argument in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded. This is obviously not at all what I did. I shouldn’t have even had to clarify why someone claiming that another person hasn’t worked in their life meant that they were talking about EMPLOYMENT, whether self or otherwise. That means a job, something that Rosen contends Ann Romney did not have. While the facts around that particular contention are not known to me, they are irrelevant to the major point I was making, which is this:

When someone says “Five kids and sixteen grandkids and Dem. advisor says Ann Romney has ‘never worked a day in her life’.” they are saying that the contention Rosen is making is not accurate BECAUSE she took care of the kids. Since Rosen’s statement was obviously (except to people who will claim otherwise but not back it up with a different interpretation simply to be contrarian) about whether or not Ann Romney held down a job, that is implying, to me and quite possibly to some women, that it was her job to be taking care of the kids.

Taking care of kids is work, but it is something that should not be EXPECTED of a female by the male dominated society. Whether or not you agree that this is what the headline implied is fine, if you really want to argue that point. But don’t insult your own intelligence by trying to say that Rosen’s statement meant work in a way different than employment. That is what makes your statement about me inserting the word job worthless semantics.

As for your question about whether or not I have ever used semantics in an argument, of course I am sure that I have. But that is neither here nor there to my point. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

barking frog

April 12th, 2012
6:07 pm

“So can you provide the link
where Repubs are forcing an
18 inch device into woman”

that just makes me feel so
inadequate.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
6:08 pm

Thulsa Doom,

“And if so wouldn’t they then stick something in the woman for the abortion also?”

Does the doctor stick a 18″ wand up your butt before you get a prostate exam?

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
6:08 pm

A war on moms.

A war on a Christian memorial that aint hurtin no one.

Geez. How many wars are the libs running right now?

getalife

April 12th, 2012
6:08 pm

Is romneycare working?

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
6:09 pm

“Does the doctor stick a 18″ wand up your butt before you get a prostate exam?”

Irrelevant point- red herring argument.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
6:10 pm

Thulsa Doom,

“How many wars are the libs running right now?”

Don’t forget the war on Christmas…

pogo

April 12th, 2012
6:10 pm

This liberal “blame the other guy” thing is getting out of control. Chicago Mayor Rham Emanuel is now blaming Daley for all the of some odd 200 murders that have occurred in Chicago since January 1st. What is it with these liberals that are totally unwilling to accept responsibility even when it is apparent to everyone that they are responsible? Kind of like Obama continuing to blame Bush for his own failure.

Paul

April 12th, 2012
6:10 pm

jewcowboy

That’s one cool mom.

Sounds like your teacher was still teaching Sunday School -

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

April 12th, 2012
6:11 pm

If George Zimmerman’s nose has been broken lately mine has been broken for the last ten years.

Just another CON lie exposed.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
6:11 pm

Thulsa Doom,

“Irrelevant point- red herring argument.”

Why..because it is a pointless invasive medical procedure performed on a man before a legal medical procedure, rather than on a woman?

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

April 12th, 2012
6:12 pm

Don’t forget the war on Christmas…

That one is my favorite. I get all ramped up right after Thanksgiving for that one.

barking frog

April 12th, 2012
6:13 pm

grits
zimm is a democrat.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
6:13 pm

Thulsa: Do you want all kinds of stuff mandated or not?

Exactly ONE THING is mandated for the individual – having health insurance (not even necessarily buying it, mind you). All the rest is regular old regulation and rules, all of which is not even contested as being within the bounds of what is constitutional for Congress to do.

The mandate also happens to be toothless. I could understand why someone on the court would not know that if all they do is complain about the length of it, questioning why they should even bother to read it as a result.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
6:13 pm

“Kind of like Obama continuing to blame Bush for his own failure.”

There is evidently a memory deficiency among “conservatives” that prevents recall past 1.20.2009.

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

April 12th, 2012
6:13 pm

Id give up now Thulsa.

jewcowboy is making you look pretty stupid.

If you are in a hole, best to stop digging.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
6:14 pm

Paul,

“Sounds like your teacher was still teaching Sunday School”

Florida…enough said.

GT

April 12th, 2012
6:14 pm

A party of bigots ran Herman Cain, Newt ran on family value, Larry Edwin Craig was a Republican, and tricky Dick told us, all American have the right to know their president is not a crook. Romney and Obamacare is about as normal as this crowd gets.

getalife

April 12th, 2012
6:14 pm

cons ignore the collapse.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
6:15 pm

pogo: Kind of like Obama continuing to blame Bush for his own failure.

Care to point to the latest example of Obama doing this? Thanks in advance!

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

April 12th, 2012
6:17 pm

grits
zimm is a democrat.

He told me he voted for Gingrich.

Anybody who could beat … as he put it … that f**king coon.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
6:17 pm

“Why..because it is a pointless invasive medical procedure performed on a man before a legal medical procedure, rather than on a woman?”

Pointless in whose opinion? Yours?

ragnar danneskjold

April 12th, 2012
6:17 pm

RomneyCare was 70 pages long. ObamaCare is 2600 pages long. While it is fair to acknowledge that Romney had 70 pages from six years ago on his list of forgetables, Obama has a monstrosity 35 times as large, and three times more recent. Too bad Romney did not have a conservative court to wipe out his worst sin.

Aquagirl

April 12th, 2012
6:18 pm

Why..because it is a pointless invasive medical procedure performed on a man before a legal medical procedure, rather than on a woman?

Yep.

jewcowboy FTW!

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

April 12th, 2012
6:19 pm

Well, my buddy Joe Bill says we don’t need no stinking mandate. People ought to be able to freeload on others when they want to.

Joe Bill, he’s a little bitter because they’re trying to take his farm. You might recall that a couple years ago Joe Bill fell off of his roof onto his head, otherwise he would of been hurt bad. Anyhow, they kept him at Northside Forsyth for about 10 days. He figured that was that and was very suprized when he got a hospitle bill for a hundred grand. And not suprized just because he don’t recall nothing about falling off of the roof. Turns out he was too rich for Medicaid and too young for Medicare. Anyhow, when he refused to pay they sued him to take his farm.

Joe Bill was never much into buying health insurance, and I can’t blame him. He says every poor person and illegal immigrant can get free treatment at the hospitle, but when Joe Bill, a real red-blooded citizen, needs to be patched up, they want to charge him up the wazoo. He wants to know why he can’t get free treatment too, and I can’t answer him.

Anyhow, I’m pretty sure Mr. Mormon Underwear was against a mandate before he was for it, and now he’s against it again. Now the librul Democrats have took out after his wife just because she’s too rich to have to work. Besides, if she had to work she’d wear that car elevator in their house out, getting in and out of one of those new Cadillacs she drives around as kind of beater cars. It’s a bad time to be a Romney.

Have a good night everybody.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
6:19 pm

Pointless in whose opinion? Yours?

Try many many MANY doctors saying so.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
6:19 pm

“Don’t forget the war on Christmas… ”

I remember several years ago Oliely going on and on about the left’s war on Christmas……….

He would “opine” and almost about blow a gasket when stores would change their Merry Christmas signs ( as if it wasn’t their choice) to Happy Holiday……. it was a travesty, the country was rolling down hill like a snow ball heading for hell….. blah, blah, blah

Come to find out; anyone could go to the FoxNews website and purchase Christmas ornaments………. some had the name of the newscaster or pundit on them

No big deal there, to each his or her own except the ornaments that said “Oliely” also had “Happy Holidays” on it………. not one said “Merry Christmas”

bwhahahahahahah

I will never forget Olieley and his fake, fantasy made up war

Adam

April 12th, 2012
6:20 pm

ragnar: RomneyCare was 70 pages long. ObamaCare is 2600 pages long.

OMG, don’t make me REEEEEEAD mommy! (whine)

barking frog

April 12th, 2012
6:21 pm

grits
zimm may have lied to
you or he may have
cross party voted in
the primary.

F. Sinkwich

April 12th, 2012
6:22 pm

“What is it with these liberals that are totally unwilling to accept responsibility even when it is apparent to everyone that they are responsible?”

Because they all got trophies for just showing up.

They all got “A’s” for effort.

Because they get praised by the LSM for their good intentions, regardless of results.

Etc.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
6:23 pm

Thulsa Doom,

“Pointless in whose opinion? Yours?”

What other individual medical procedures are demanded by state law?

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
6:23 pm

Pass the Cheesy Grits Please

April 12th, 2012
6:17 pm

grits
zimm is a democrat.

He told me he voted for Gingrich.

“Anybody who could beat … as he put it … that f**king coon.”

Looks like I nabbed yet another liberal red handed in a big LIE LIE LIE!!!!

Zimm did not say that. ABC, CNN, AND NBC are all now doing a mea culpa on that

http://americaswatchtower.com/2012/04/05/nbc-abc-and-cnn-backtrack-from-their-initial-reporting-on-trayvon-martins-shooting/

“NBC, ABC, and CNN are the main culprits in promoting the race based theory that George Zimmerman targeted Trayvon Martin simply because he was a black man, but all three media outlets are now admitting mea culpas in their reporting of this tragic story.”

Liar liar pants on fire. Damn you are looking like a fool right about NOW…..

B

O

O

M

!

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
6:27 pm

jewcowboy,

Does the state not mandate certain shots and immunizations?

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
6:28 pm

Anywho…off to have a French 75. If you’ve never had one, try one…it makes a random Thursday a little nicer.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
6:29 pm

“Anyhow, I’m pretty sure Mr. Mormon Underwear”

There’s always some idiot somewhere willing to showcase his religious bigotry.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
6:29 pm

Does the state not mandate certain shots and immunizations?

Again, doctors are behind this as necessary. They are NOT behind ultrasound wands being used to shame women for asking for an abortion.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
6:30 pm

Thulsa Doom,

“Does the state not mandate certain shots and immunizations?”

Simple answer, no.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/spec-grps/hcp/downloads/not-vacc-risks-bw-office.pdf

Good evening.

F. Sinkwich

April 12th, 2012
6:32 pm

“There’s always some idiot somewhere willing to showcase his religious bigotry.”

And they’re all lib ilks, at 9 out of 10 at least, who post about Mitt’s religion here. Always negatively.

Maybe they might go easier on him if he was Muslim or something.

Aquagirl

April 12th, 2012
6:35 pm

Simple answer, no.

Well Doomy….Liar liar pants on fire. Damn you are looking like a fool right about NOW…..

B

O

O

M

!

Have a great evening.

F. Sinkwich

April 12th, 2012
6:35 pm

“Republican Mitt Romney holds a slim edge over President Obama in a head-to-head matchup, a Fox News poll released Thursday shows. In addition, the poll finds the president’s job rating has dropped to its lowest point of the year.”

And the Mittster hasn’t hardly started his campaign against the euro-socialist Marxist yet.

Bummer.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
6:36 pm

That Black Guy: “Obama Responds To Hilary Rosen Comments: ‘There’s No Tougher Job Than Being A Mom’”

Hmm, looks like I’m not the only one who interpreted Rosen’s comments the way I did. Hmm.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
6:39 pm

Even at the Republican Dipstick Noise Network, Flippy can barely edge out Barry.

In a presidential matchup, Romney tops Obama by 46-44 percent if the election were today.

Hysterical…

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
6:39 pm

“The mandate also happens to be toothless.”

Well now there is the matter of the penalty so its not exactly toothless. Its a small penalty but a penalty nonetheless. As for other impacts of the law such as the tax consequences they are not toothless. A whole array of new taxes comes with the imposition of ACA.

http://cnsnews.com/node/63313

And of course from the Washington post another study that the new health care law will actually add another 340 billion to the deficit. Given the well documented history of the federal govt vastly underestimating the future costs of medicaid, medicare, the home health care, etc. is it any wonder that Obamacare would cost a lot more than projected.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/health-care-law-will-add-340-billion-to-deficit-new-study-finds/2012/04/09/gIQAti1o6S_story.html

Adam

April 12th, 2012
6:40 pm

Rather, looks like someone else inserted the word “job,” and that person would be Obama. His point was that Rosen’s comments were incorrect because being a mother is a job.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
6:42 pm

Still trying to figure out how Jay Carney knows 3 different Hilary Rosens. Hell I’ve never even known one John Smith but O’s press secretary knows 3 different Hilary Rosens. Sometimes I think the libruls tell so many lies they don’t even realize how stupid their lies start to sound.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
6:42 pm

By the way, what was that about Obama having a double standard when it comes to attacking the wives of candidates? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
6:44 pm

Aquagirl, jewcowboy,

Nope. Not true. My girlfriend who is in the medical field had to have a mandatory TB innoculation or test before going to work. Just the facts ma’am. Just the facts.

B

O

O

M

!

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
6:46 pm

Dinnertime. Be back to dispel some more kook left nonsense later on.

Cheesy grits where o where art thou after I hammered that bogus story of yours about Zimmerman saying effing coon. Maybe you should do like ABC, CNN, NBC and backtrack and apologize about bogus reporting.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
6:49 pm

Thulsa: My girlfriend who is in the medical field had to have a mandatory TB innoculation or test before going to work. Just the facts ma’am. Just the facts.

So does that apply to everyone else as mandated by the state? Or is it just health workers?

pogo

April 12th, 2012
6:50 pm

Obama’s longtime friend and mentor Weather Underground terrorist Bill Ayers this week told a gathering of Occupy people that he wakes up everyday saying that he is going to end Capitalism and he goes to bed everyday disappointed. He and Obama are going to suffer many more bedtime nightmares since both of them have built their career on exactly this same marxist dream. Maybe they should have consulted with the Russians before devoting their entire lives to destruction of Capitalism. They would have been much happier.

F. Sinkwich

April 12th, 2012
6:54 pm

“Sometimes I think the libruls tell so many lies they don’t even realize how stupid their lies start to sound.”

They don’t care, Doom.

They know they have Jay and the lib ilk media like ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, etc., in their back pocket to propagate their lies over and over.

jewcowboy

April 12th, 2012
6:55 pm

Thulsa,

She needed those as a condition of employment not as a condition of having a legal medical procedure. Talk about red herrings.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
6:56 pm

pogo: No evidence for your last claim? You know, the one that Obama is still blaming Bush for his “failures”?

….that’s what I thought.

F. Sinkwich

April 12th, 2012
6:57 pm

“Maybe they should have consulted with the Russians before devoting their entire lives to destruction of Capitalism. ”

O’bozo needs to wait until after the election so he can be more flexible about his plans to destroy capitalism.

Don’t believe me?

He said so on tape.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
6:58 pm

O’bozo needs to wait until after the election so he can be more flexible about his plans to destroy capitalism.

Don’t believe me?

He said so on tape.

Oh really? Please produce the tape of him saying “I will have more flexibility to destroy capitalism”

Thanks in advance.

getalife

April 12th, 2012
6:58 pm

Our President told assad to stop killing his people and he did.

nk lauches their satellite.

Bud Wiser

April 12th, 2012
7:02 pm

Hilary Rosen is the prototypical lib female,all mouth, no substance. She represents on a larger scale how the party ‘elite’ feel about certain segments of their assumed indentured servitude classes: the blacks, women, the takers and losers, the entitlement crowd, anyone with class or wealth envy.

Libs just cannot help it, their true feelings eventually just seem to slip out as they turn and fire volleys into the troops supposedly at their backs. Being lovers of the media, with that affection always being returned, when the bright lights turn on their faces, they spill their guts about those things usually reserved for the party strategy room. Then, like Rosen, the first reaction is to double down on their own stupidity like Rosen did, then some back-room bitch slapping gets them back on TV for a final hollow apology.

The internal self destruction of the socialist party has begun.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

April 12th, 2012
7:06 pm

My girlfriend’s hairdresser’s husband has an uncle that used to work with a guy that knew someone that had to have a TB inoculation.

They had to stand in line at Whole Foods behind a foodstamp welfare queen with __________ shopping carts filled with cigarettes and beer…..

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
7:07 pm

Adam, you and I and whole boatload of other people here know that Frankie tosses out endless, childish, made up of thin air nonsense so people will pay attention to him.

Now that that kid at Kroger won’t anymore.

Sanford, Florida (CNN) — An affidavit of probable cause in Florida’s case against George Zimmerman for the shooting death of an unarmed 17-year-old says that the neighborhood watch volunteer “profiled” the victim, Trayvon Martin, and disregarded a police dispatcher’s request that he await the arrival of police.

The affidavit, which was drawn up Wednesday but not made public until Thursday, was prepared by investigators for the state attorney, who charged Zimmerman with second-degree murder Wednesday.

“Martin then walked back to and entered the gated community and was on his way back to the townhouse where he was living when he was profiled by George Zimmerman,” the affidavit says. “Martin was unarmed and was not committing a crime.”

It says that Zimmerman, who lived in the same community, was in his vehicle when he saw Martin “and assumed Martin was a criminal. Zimmerman felt Martin did not belong in the gated community and called the police. Zimmerman spoke to the dispatcher and asked for an officer to respond because Zimmerman perceived that Martin was acting suspicious. The police dispatcher informed Zimmerman that an officer was on the way and to wait for the officer.

“During the recorded call Zimmerman made reference to people he felt had committed and gotten away with break-ins in his neighborhood. Later while talking about Martin, Zimmerman stated ‘these a**holes, they always get away,” and also said ‘these f****** punks.’ ”

As the incident was unfolding, Martin was on the phone with a friend, the affidavit says. “The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn’t know why. Martin attempted to run home but was followed by Zimmerman who didn’t want the person he falsely assumed was going to commit a crime to get away before the police arrived. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and followed Martin. When the police dispatcher realized Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, he instructed Zimmerman not to do that and that the responding officer would meet him. Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher and continued to follow Martin who was trying to return to his home.

“Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued. Witnesses heard people arguing and what sounded like a struggle.”

Calls to 911 captured a voice crying for help; that voice belonged to Martin, according to his mother; the neighborhood watch volunteer’s relatives have said the voice was Zimmerman’s.

Zimmerman shot Martin in the chest. When police arrived Zimmerman admitted shooting Martin. Officers recovered a gun from a holster inside Zimmerman’s waistband. A fired casing that was recovered at the scene was determined to have been fired from the firearm.”

F. Sinkwich

April 12th, 2012
7:08 pm

Feminists have always hated stay-at-home moms.

They look down their noses at them, like they’re a lesser form of life, subservient to a male who leaves home every morning to do “real work.”

Pathetic.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
7:11 pm

Feminists/del> FemiNazis have always hated stay-at-home moms.

Get your talking points right!

MiltonMan

April 12th, 2012
7:11 pm

Big, big difference:

RomneyCare – constitutional (right reserved to the state)

ObozoCare – soon to be deemed unconstitutional

Other diffs: Mass residents wanted RomneyCare; passed with partisian work. ObozoCare – None of the above.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
7:11 pm

Fudge.

Feminists FemiNazis have always hated stay-at-home moms.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
7:13 pm

Frank, if you keep screwing up simple stuff like that you are gonna get tossed out of the Rush Limbaugh Club…

Adam

April 12th, 2012
7:15 pm

Stay at home motherhood is no longer an option for anyone but the wealthy. If women want to do this, a lot of them simply can’t, no matter what they would like, because their husbands are not making enough to support that. Lots of women are out there working AND taking care of their children. However much work is involved in raising children, it isn’t any LESS for someone who also works for a paycheck.

MiltonMan

April 12th, 2012
7:17 pm

“What amazes me is the right wing is buying his baloney. They throw the only good candidate they had to the curb, Huntsman, and elevate FLip Romney, Sanitorium and Newtron to the top. They aren’t too bright are they?”

Says the “lady” driving around town in a ‘78 AMC Pacer with a “Hope and Change” Bumper sticker holding the car together

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

April 12th, 2012
7:18 pm

Editorial: “What if the government rejects the Constitution?”

“What if the government never took the Constitution seriously? What if the same generation — in some cases the same human beings — that wrote in the First Amendment, “Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom of speech,” also enacted the Alien and Sedition Acts, which made it a crime to criticize the government? What if the feds don’t regard the Constitution as the Supreme Law of the Land?

What if the government regards the Constitution as merely a guideline to be referred to from time to time, or a myth to be foisted upon the voters, but not as a historic delegation of power that lawfully limits the federal government? What if Congress knows that most of what it regulates puts it outside the confines of the Constitution, but it does whatever it can get away with? What if the feds don’t think that the Constitution was written to keep them off the people’s backs?

What if there’s no substantial difference between the two major political parties? What if the same political mentality that gave us the Patriot Act, with its federal agent-written search warrants that permit unconstitutional spying on us, also gave us ObamaCare, with its mandate to buy health insurance, even if we don’t want or need it? What if both political parties love power more than freedom? What if both parties have used the Commerce Clause in the Constitution to stretch the power of the federal government far beyond its constitutionally ordained boundaries and well beyond the plain meaning of words?

What if both parties love war because the public is more docile during war and permits higher taxes and more federal theft of freedom from individuals and power from the states? What if none of these recent wars has made us freer or safer, but just poorer?

What if Congress bribed the states with cash in return for their enacting legislation that Congress likes, but cannot lawfully enact? What if Congress went to all states in the union and offered them cash to repave their interstate highways, if the states only lowered their speed limits? What if the states took that deal? What if the Supreme Court approved this bribery and then Congress did it again and again? What if this bribery were a way for Congress to get around the few constitutional limitations that Congress acknowledges?

What if Congress believes that it can spend tax dollars on anything it pleases and tie any strings it wants to that spending? What if Congress uses its taxing and spending power to regulate anything it wants to control, whether authorized by the Constitution or not? What if anyone other than members of Congress offered state legislatures cash in return for favorable legislation? What if Congress wrote laws that let it break laws that ordinary people would be prosecuted for breaking?

What if the Declaration of Independence says that the government derives its powers from the consent of the governed? What if the government claims to derive powers from some other source that it will not — because it cannot — name? What if we never gave the government the power to spy on us, to print worthless cash, to kill in our names, to force us to buy health insurance or to waste our money by telling us that exercise is good and sugar is bad?

What if we never gave the government the power to bribe the poor with welfare or the middle class with tax breaks or the rich with bailouts or the states with cash? What if we don’t consent to what has become of the government? What if the Constitution has been tacitly amended by the consent of both political parties, whereby instead of ratifying amendments, all three branches of government merely look the other way when the government violates the Constitution? What if the president cannot constitutionally bomb whatever country he wants? What if the Congress cannot constitutionally exempt its members from the laws that govern the rest of us? What if the courts cannot constitutionally invent a right to kill babies in the womb?

What if the federal government is out of control, no matter which party controls it? What if there is only harmony on Capitol Hill when government is growing and personal liberty is shrinking? What if the presidential race this fall will not be between good and evil, between right and left, between free markets and central planning or even between constitutional government and Big Government; but only about how much bigger Big Government should get?

What if enough is enough? What do we do about it? What if it’s too late?

Andrew P. Napolitano, a former judge of the Superior Court of New Jersey, is the senior judicial analyst at Fox News Channel. Judge Napolitano has written six books on the U.S. Constitution.”

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/04/12/what-if-government-rejects-constitution/#ixzz1rs4Hjhcl

MiltonMan

April 12th, 2012
7:19 pm

“Stay at home motherhood is no longer an option for anyone but the wealthy.”

Bull. I work with plenty young people who have wives & even husbands staying home taking care of infants. Quite a few are living in apartments.

Billybob

April 12th, 2012
7:20 pm

liberal/leftists are always liberal/leftists first….which is why little things like the constitution, or the truth doesn’t get in their way……….the moderate dems are realizing the true nature of the radicals who lead their party and the radical in the white house and are leaving………can’t wait to see how silly libs like jay spin nov 7th………..

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
7:25 pm

“Stay at home motherhood is no longer an option for anyone but the wealthy.”

When nearly half of one person’s salary goes to paying the various taxes, sometimes it helps to have two paychecks. That said, I know plenty of people that aren’t wealthy where one spouse stays at home with the children. They make do.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
7:26 pm

El Pigbo is back at it.

His latest slur against women?

Clucking hens…

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
7:28 pm

When a gargantuan percentage of working families in America are making virtually no more in adjusted inflation dollars than they did in the 1970s, even two paychecks is a joke…

F. Sinkwich

April 12th, 2012
7:28 pm

“Voters now have more confidence in presumptive Republican nominee Mitt Romney than in President Obama when it comes to the economy…”

Bummer.

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
7:29 pm

Just been catching up on the news. This Rosen woman was floating a talking point for the campaign. It didn’t go over too well, so she and her boss did some backtracking. They will test attacking Romney’s kids next, to see if they can get some traction with that.

Billybob

April 12th, 2012
7:29 pm

sinkwich,
see how no libs disputed your point, just pivoted….libs can’t stand the truth or somebody pointing out the truth…….they can’t stand to be held accountable for anything, that’s why they continually move the goalpost, blame one for another’s problems and always have another fix to a ‘perceived’ problem their lack of honesty and integrity doesn’t allow them to ever fix………..never holding anyone accountable is their answer……….strawman, victim, whatever……..dems silliness is on full display from now until hussein’s fascism is voted out…………

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
7:32 pm

From that Fox News poll…

Question #13. Which candidate do you think is more likely to tell you the truth?

Barack Obama 39%
Mitt Romney 37%

Bummer.

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
7:33 pm

Jam,

If you wouldn’t listen to Rush everyday you wouldn’t get so worked up over what he says.

F. Sinkwich

April 12th, 2012
7:34 pm

“When a gargantuan percentage of working families in America are making virtually no more in adjusted inflation dollars than they did in the 1970s, even two paychecks is a joke…”

Must be due to all those NAMELESS corportism people and plutocruds and such.

Maybe we can look to Ralph “Just Call Me Plato” Nader for a reassuring quote to make us all feel better.

Or maybe LBJ.

Oh wait, he was a chairborne or something….

Billybob

April 12th, 2012
7:34 pm

jamvet,
nice point, now be honest and blame the current president for the economic woes that we currently face……should be a hoot….

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
7:36 pm

heathen, just checking up on him because he is so disgusting topical!

And as always just being your faithful reporter in the GOP’s war on Women.

You sluts…

From that Fox News poll.

Question #11. Which candidate do you think is smarter?

Barack Obama 42%
Mitt Romney 33%

Bummer.

MiltonMan

April 12th, 2012
7:37 pm

That fruitcake disguised as a governor in this state – Roy Barnes was convinced that his crappy redistricting maps he came up with in 2000 would easily pass the test. They were shot down along with any hopes that the clown had on getting re-elected.

Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes

April 12th, 2012
7:38 pm

“Don’t cha wish your girlfriend was hot like me?
Don’t cha wish your girlfriend was a freak like me?
Don’t cha?
Don’t cha?”
– Thomas Jefferson

Billybob

April 12th, 2012
7:39 pm

hussein is smarter and more honest……….beetlejuice, beetlejuice, beetlejuice……….

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
7:42 pm

Yeah, bob and that is from the dead red Faux News!

Even you neocons can’t stand Flip.

A friggin’ laugh riot.

One good bit of news for the you soft on terrorism Republicans though, that topic has dropped to the fourth most important in that Fox poll.

But…

REAL bad news for the Coathanger Party.

Abortion is ninth.

How in the name of prostitutes and clucking hens everywhere are you gonna win the War on Women with that???

F. Sinkwich

April 12th, 2012
7:43 pm

“When a gargantuan percentage of working families in America are making virtually no more in adjusted inflation dollars than they did in the 1970s, even two paychecks is a joke…”

Some people want to go back to the days of Jimmy Carter.

Gotta love them gas lines. 55 mph on the interstates anyone?

18% mortgage rates? 12% inflation?

444 days of impotence?

Only idiots want that.

Present company included.

getalife

April 12th, 2012
7:47 pm

filky has to vote for a lib named willard and is understandingly upset.

Don't Forget

April 12th, 2012
7:55 pm

N. Korean rocket launch appears to have failed, breaking up at some point. Good.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
7:55 pm

Frank just called himself an idiot.

And it’s gonna get worse. Much worse.

getalife, can you imagine the meltdowns from him, billbybob, 71, reb, Bud, the corporal, et al this November?

There will not be enough popcorn in the western hemisphere for that show…

getalife

April 12th, 2012
7:57 pm

Jam,

I think we should prepare our cons to take this thumpin like a man and not cry like a baby.

1,755 more days (Obama) + 2,920 more days (Hillary) formerly known as Soothsayer

April 12th, 2012
7:59 pm

Man, the Fright-Wing is on the war-path tonight! Whooooo – eeeeeeee! We got Fish Sandwich with his usual nonsensical posts and Billybob who’s done got his period. What is it with the Fright-Wing and this period thing. Does it have something to do with Callister’s har or something? What?

My guess is that it’s some tired old Fright-Wing blogger what’s been around here forever and’s been shot down so many times they thunk that if’n I can just thank up some new “blog-handle” then finally, I can convince them “libruls” that what Lush told me is right! And what Vannity is the God’s honest truth.

It’s hard to be a Fright-Winger these days. Ya got Little Eddie Muster pushing Grandma and her wheelchair over the cliff. Ya got King Dumbass the First who just “won’t stay quiet.” Ya got Mitt celebratin’ the signin’ of his “I was fur it before I was agin’ it” healthcare bill.

What could happen next?

weetamoe

April 12th, 2012
8:01 pm

Democrats sent out that message early this morning. Family in MA have mixed reactions to the medical plan(s) Those who have insurance from employees–such as power companies, hospitals, schools–use the mandated plan as a supplement. As far as the really low income plan, if you exceed your monthly quota, you are told to go to the emergency room. I have family members as residents and clinical workers at Boston hospitals. Brigham and the Harvard clinic facility in Roxbury and at hospitals on southeast coast.

JKL2

April 12th, 2012
8:05 pm

jewcowboy- Wouldn’t her insurance premiums be paying for for birth control? Or does that work for only non-birth control prescriptions?

“I attend a Jesuit law school that does not provide contraceptive coverage in its student health plan. And just as we students have faced financial, emotional, and medical burdens as a result, employees at religiously-affiliated hospitals and institutions and universities across the country have suffered similar burdens.” fluke

Translation: I’m 30 year old college student who need someone to buy my contraception for me–to all you left wing asshats with comprehension problems.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
8:12 pm

Translation: JKL2 has huge difficulties with standard, written English.

1,755 more days (Obama) + 2,920 more days (Hillary) formerly known as Soothsayer

April 12th, 2012
8:16 pm

Well, I guess I’d better am-scray. Jay don’t make no money when I turn on the light and all them Fright-Wing roaches goes running for the woodwork. No sirree! He get’s paid by the post, ya know. Oh, you didn’t know that?

I have it on good advice from Ann Cox Chambers herself, that without Jay Bookman, this whole damned dead-tree rag would go under! Why do you thank they pay him so much!

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
8:25 pm

It’s so quiet here tonight. I guess that RomneyCare Anniversary is a somber event for Republicans.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
8:25 pm

Casual Observer

April 12th, 2012
4:19 pm
“The person who attacked Ann Romney for staying home and raising 5 kids is a lesbian. She has never raised kids, and never will. She is excused from her ignorant statement”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elizabeth-birch/hilary-rosen-ann-romney_b_1421774.html

“Hilary Rosen is an amazing, loving and dedicated mother to our twins.”

Please remind Casual how much he really doesn’t know but still cries about as if he did

Thanks in advance

Soothsayer

April 12th, 2012
8:27 pm

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
8:29 pm

“When a gargantuan percentage of working families in America are making virtually no more in adjusted inflation dollars than they did in the 1970s,”

Why should they be? Are they working harder? Are they working smarter?

In the 70s the employers had a lot fewer expenses outside of labor costs. Now they have all kinds of environmental compliance costs, ADA compliance costs, OSHA costs (not that those are bad things) and higher energy costs. It would surprising if the employees were taking home a bigger piece of the pie, wouldn’t it?

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
8:31 pm

“It’s so quiet here tonight. I guess that RomneyCare Anniversary is a somber event for Republicans.”

Dems hate Obamacare so much they are blaming a Republican for it. ;)

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
8:37 pm

godless

Some good points, but you can’t leave it at that and be honest about the issue.

Outsourcing is a HUGE component………… and before you go with the union deal….. there are 1000s and 1000s of engineering, programing, call center jobs that were never heavily unionized that went bye bye as well……….

I’m not saying that is a Repub or Dem problem…… but it must be discussed when speaking about this issue

It is a “globalization” problem……….. There is a “cost” for the cheap good we enjoy from overseas………. that to an extent is wages, jobs and benefits.

I must say, that many people have benefited from the economy we are all facing, but more are slipping back than moving ahead

Tough issues that have been in process for 30 yrs or so……

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
8:41 pm

Well I’m certainly grateful for the big corporations not paying any more to employees or in taxes than they do. Otherwise, I might not be getting a piece of that 100 billion in extra cash that Apple has, for example, in the form of a tax-free dividend. It will be tax-free, right?

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
8:44 pm

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
8:37 pm

I can’t disagree with you. The pond we swim in is getting bigger with billions of other fishes that would be tickled to have anywhere near the standard of living that we have in the US, even if our SOL is stagnating. Jam is probably scrolling through his DNC emails for a reply to my question, but why should we expect that the average US family today would make more in real dollars than they did in the 70s? To me it would be surprising if they did.

Recon 0311 2533

April 12th, 2012
8:45 pm

Quite a revelation. Well not really as we have the far left well represented on this blog who daily rail about heartless right wingers who’re devoid of understanding and compassion for their fellow man displaying once again they’re intrinsic hypocrisy. Seven combat Marines who humped the gear necessary to erect two 13 ft. crosses up a steep 3000 ft. hill in a very remote area of Camp Pendelton ten years ago to honor their fellow fallen warriors. Three of the original seven died in combat and we have a few narrow minded atheist threatening law suits to have those crosses removed. Now we see here on this blog narrow minded leftest begrudging them their place of mourning and healing before they deploy once again only for their selfish bigoted ideology. No respect for those posters from this former Marine.

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
8:45 pm

Tax,

Do you work for Apple or own stock in the company?

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
8:47 pm

Why should they be? Are they working harder? Are they working smarter?

Of course, heathen.

Productivity per American worker has DOUBLED since the 1970s yet for most of them their wages have flat-lined for the past forty years.

Do you think it is the natural and proper evolution of American capitalism?

Corporations are making RECORD profits in spite of those things you list.

And committing record crimes, but that is a different topic.

The wealth in this country is being aggregated into fewer and fewer and fewer hands.

Is it any wonder our economy is for crap?

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
8:48 pm

godless

While we would probably disagree on certain approaches on how to get there, I am confident that the US can get it going again.

I lean left as you well know, but I’m not enamored with how Democrats operate in DC anymore than I am with the Republicans.

While DC isn’t the only problem we face, the constant “my way of the highway” that both sides love to utilize is way past old……. and does nothing to get us going

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
8:50 pm

Recon,

If I can’t see the crosses from my house, they don’t bother me. They should ask these twits if they can see the crosses from their house’s. If not, case closed.

These are the kind of atheists that give the rest of us a bad name. Most non-believers are tolerant people.

Soothsayer

April 12th, 2012
8:51 pm

rightwing troll

April 12th, 2012
8:52 pm

“Most non-believers are tolerant people.”

Too the same can’t be said for most believers.

rightwing troll

April 12th, 2012
8:54 pm

“and does nothing to get us going”

And neither does one side when they make it their goal to not get us going for four years from day one.

Recon 0311 2533

April 12th, 2012
8:55 pm

godless heathen, you’re okay in my book. There’s nothing wrong with disagreement, so long as we don’t penalize those who we disagree with. Live and let live isn’t a bad motto.

Recon 0311 2533

April 12th, 2012
9:01 pm

“Too the same can’t be said for most believers.”

Is that a supposition or have you conducted your own survey with conclusive data?

F. Sinkwich

April 12th, 2012
9:02 pm

“The wealth in this country is being aggregated into fewer and fewer and fewer hands.”

Whaaaaa! Whaaa!

Even if this isn’t true, I need to believe it. ‘Cause I’m such a loooooooser.

Whaaaaa!

When they make money, they take it away from me!

Whaaaaa!

I never made anything of myself, but it’s their fault!!!

Whaaaa!

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
9:03 pm

“The wealth in this country is being aggregated into fewer and fewer and fewer hands.

Is it any wonder our economy is for crap?”

Isn’t that the way it is in most of the world? I wish I knew the answer, but I think we’ll agree that the situation isn’t likely to improve anytime soon. And it certainly won’t be helped if our country becomes more and more divisive as illustrated by Jay’s blog earlier today. I remember seeing a talk once by one of your heroes, Newt Gingrich. He had passed out a list of goals to all the attendees. He asked us to look at the goals and try to think of anyone that wouldn’t support each one of them. They were things like, better education, cleaner environment, economic growth, etc. He then made the point that since 95%+ of the people want these things, it should not be difficult for government to help us attain them but we let the few things that we disagree on get in the way.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
9:04 pm

Sink’s been deep into the bottle again.

No sober person could be that stupid.

Not even a troll…

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
9:06 pm

Do you work for Apple or own stock in the company?

Work! If I did that, I’d have to give up some of my hard earned money in the form of payroll taxes. That’s for commoners. Just make sure you keep my capital gains and dividends tax free.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
9:07 pm

Jam

Maybe fresh from another in depth philosophical discussion about alternative fuel with the guy at Kroger

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
9:10 pm

troll,

Most believers are tolerant people. Some give the rest a bad reputation.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
9:11 pm

Isn’t that the way it is in most of the world?

Actually, heathen, no.

None of the other industrialized countries have the enormous income disparity that we do. Look at the chart that I’ve linked below

In the 1970s the average American CEO made about 40 times more than his average employee. By the 1990s it was about 475 times more.

From 1990 to 2005 CEO pay rose 298%.

The average American worker? 4.3%

http://static.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com/politifact%2Fphotos%2FCEO_pay_chart.jpg

Welcome to the plutocracy.

And dolts like Frank don’t care or know what the hell has happened to this country…

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
9:12 pm

TP,

“Just make sure you keep my capital gains and dividends tax free.”

Tax free capitals gains and dividends? Please share your secret. You could write a book on that and make millions.

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
9:13 pm

And I want to know why you Republicans out there allow my REIT dividends to be taxed as ordinary income while my dividends from stocks such as COP and SO and others get a lower tax rate. How can you guys expect me to invest and help you guys continue to pay those payroll taxes if you insist on taxing any of my investment income at all. Don’t you care about my ability to help you.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
9:18 pm

godless

I think it goes both ways…… I’ve met agnostics, atheists, Wiccans, Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc, etc that were very tolerant and others who were very intolerant

As for the discussion earlier on the crosses, 10 commandments at court houses, etc it isn’t my cross to bear (no pun intended) and fight against…. there are more important things imo

I will only say that some of those very people who will fight and demand that those crosses stay there will be ready to go to war if another symbol besides a Christian or maybe a Jewish symbol is given equal access……. That is certainly not all and I do not want to be misconstrued because it isn’t all, but I personally know some people that fit that exact bill

Recon 0311 2533

April 12th, 2012
9:19 pm

When the point is reached as it has now has in this country where over 50% of the population receives more from the federal government or better put the tax payers than they contribute, it’s no wonder there exists a great wealth disparity between the economic classes.

F. Sinkwich

April 12th, 2012
9:21 pm

“No sober person could be that stupid.

Not even a troll…”

How about that idiot who said O’bozo is a “moderate republican?”

Bwahahahahahaha!

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
9:22 pm

Jam.

Nice chart. Fodder for the OWS crowd, but if you took the CEO pay and divided amongst us working stiffs would it really make a difference? A dime or two each week? And I don’t have the time to chase how the chart was developed and there was no reference.

No doubt the income gap is widening. Did you see the report that about 32% of the high school students in Georgia drop out before attaining the high school diploma offered to them for free by the taxpayers? That 32% certainly aren’t going to help close the gap.

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
9:23 pm

godless,

In 2008–2012, the tax rate on qualified dividends and long term capital gains is 0% for those in the 10% and 15% income tax brackets. So if I was to happen to have a small business that happened to be doing poorly what with all them expenses from investing such that our AGI was down under say, $69,000 for 2011 for a married joint filer, then taxes on dividends and capital gains would be zero. Of course thats just one special situation. If you happen to have a Roth IRA and you meet the withdrawal requirements, capital gains and dividends from all sources are tax free.

F. Sinkwich

April 12th, 2012
9:23 pm

“Welcome to the plutocracy.”

Names, please.

Buffett? Soros?

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
9:25 pm

godless

I think Jam’s point is that trickle down isn’t a reality…….. and I know he has called out both major parties in the past so I don’t think he is placing blame just on one

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
9:26 pm

Federal tax payments have zilch to do with the topic of income disparity. Zero, nada, nothing.

Frank, take another belt and tell us again about there being no disparity, pal!

Oh, you moved onto a different idiotic talking point of yours.

OK…

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
9:26 pm

Both,

“10 commandments at court houses, etc”

Now I strongly oppose the display the 10 Cs at the courthouse. We all have to go there and half of the 10 Cs are all about the establishment of religion. The rest are common sense.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
9:28 pm

I hadn’t watched Hannity in awhile but decided to watch Hannity again tonight for the 2nd night in a row and now he’s playing those racist new black panther hate tapes again. Boring…

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
9:29 pm

TP: “If you happen to have a Roth IRA and you meet the withdrawal requirements, capital gains and dividends from all sources are tax free.”

Designed to encourage savings so all aren’t sucking on the government tit during retirement, no?

Bruno

April 12th, 2012
9:29 pm

These are the kind of atheists that give the rest of us a bad name. Most non-believers are tolerant people.

The standard that I think should be applied to religion/government questions is “Can this action be construed as being an endorsement for a particular religion?” In the case of prayers being broadcast over school PA systems, I see that as an endorsement. In the case of the crosses placed on federal land, it’s not as clear cut. Probably it is a technical violation of federal policy, but doesn’t come across as being offensive to me.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
9:32 pm

Nice chart. Fodder for the OWS crowd, but if you took the CEO pay and divided amongst us working stiffs would it really make a difference?

Hello?

Divide a few hundred million dollars every single year year and spread it out amongst the number of employees in that company.

Now do the same for the massive salary of a handful of other people in that organization and yes, it would make a helluva big difference to those workers.

And that you make that comment about the OWS crowd is interesting.

They are the very people who have finally had enough of this crap while the Republisheeple sit on their thumbs and apparently love getting flat-lined wages for decades on end.

Take a stand, your families and communities deserve more than sitting on the sidelines and slurring the people who are.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
9:32 pm

godless heathen,

There is also some historical context for the ten commandments since its at the root of western civilization and western society going back centuries. And besides is it really going to offend you as an atheist? Come on now. Is it really that big of a deal to an atheist if you see the 10 commandments there?

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
9:33 pm

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
9:25 pm

godless

I think Jam’s point is that trickle down isn’t a reality…….. and I know he has called out both major parties in the past so I don’t think he is placing blame just on one
_________________

It’s not all them and us with Jam, it’s them or us.

Recon 0311 2533

April 12th, 2012
9:35 pm

Sorry guys but trickle down did work. I know that many of you were only wearing short pants or kind of sauced out in your college fraternity’s back then but your professors were then as they are now full of $hit. Clinton finally had to give into that fact in order to get a second term. Obama would probably like to as well but he’s captive to a far left base that won’t let him.

Bruno

April 12th, 2012
9:36 pm

I hadn’t watched Hannity in awhile but decided to watch Hannity again tonight for the 2nd night in a row and now he’s playing those racist new black panther hate tapes again. Boring…

TD–I similarly tuned in Fox a few days ago, and it was Trayvon, Trayvon, Trayvon. Milking the same damn cow from the right side. I guess the most inflammatory story is going to get the most play. Imagine if all of this energy were directed constructively…….

F. Sinkwich

April 12th, 2012
9:36 pm

“Frank, take another belt and tell us again about there being no disparity, pal!”

Didn’t say that.

Moochers make little. Achievers make a lot.

I wonder which group you belong to.

I’m not your pal.

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
9:36 pm

“Is it really that big of a deal to an atheist if you see the 10 commandments there?”

Thou shalt have no other God before me. See Recon, if my government endorses that, I feel kinda left out. It’s offensive because I am just as much an American as those that subscribe to it. It also makes me doubt that I will get a fair shake from a judge that sits with that posted over his head.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
9:39 pm

TD

Not sure why Hanitty puts those goons on tv……. He has done it numerous times even before the Trayvon incident

But he isn’t the only one seeking ratings from those guys, Anderson Cooper had them on a few weeks back

getalife

April 12th, 2012
9:41 pm

It worked for the wealthy because they made the investments (bribes) to guarantee they would never lose even if they collapsed the global economy.

Your kids get stuck with the bill for their welfare.

Why do you hate your kids cons?

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
9:41 pm

Bruno & TD

A guy I used to work with once told me about the media…….. “people are going to cry if it is too far left, too far right but in the end “if it bleeds it leads’ “

Jm

April 12th, 2012
9:42 pm

Taxpayer doesn’t understand taxes

Ironic

Bruno

April 12th, 2012
9:44 pm

Divide a few hundred million dollars every single year year and spread it out amongst the number of employees in that company.

While a few CEOs rake in astronomical salaries in the hundreds of millions, I believe they are extremely rare. I’ll look for a link, but I remember being surprised in the past at how low some CEOs salaries were for some of the bigger companies. Typically less than 1 million per year.

They are the very people who have finally had enough of this crap while the Republisheeple sit on their thumbs and apparently love getting flat-lined wages for decades on end.

Jam–If you could point to 1 tangible improvement brought about by OWS, I might share your adoration. You’ve mentioned the ATM fee before, but every account I saw credited upset customers for the change, not the protestors. I’m not a big Tea Party supporter, but at least they have been able to influence elections and legislation. Even Jay had to begrudgingly give them credit in their efforts to push ethics reform.

What answers do you have for income disparity?? Federal limits on income??

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
9:45 pm

“The wealth in this country is being aggregated into fewer and fewer and fewer hands.”

How do ya’ll figure that. In the last recession I think nearly 2 in 5 millionaires got wiped out according to IRS stats that someone posted on here a couple of months ago. They took it on the chin pretty hard too. The concept that the gap between rich and poor is continously widening is something I keep hearing but see very little evidence of.

Recon 0311 2533

April 12th, 2012
9:46 pm

Okay a few things left to do and then Taps. I’ll leave it up to y’all for solving all of our problems. Good Night and pleasant dreams.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
9:47 pm

TD

One could argue that the “Code of Hammurabi” is the root of the 10 commandments……… Many Christians would argue and I understand that, but it does predate the 10 commandments and is pretty damn close

Coincidence with a few changes? I wasn’t there for either one, but there are questions that can be begged

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
9:47 pm

I tell you what, Recon. I’ll compromise on the 10 Commandments. Remove the 5 or 6 Commandments that are about stroking God’s ego, and I’ll agree to posting the rest.

1) Thou shall not steal, 2) Thou shall not kill, etc.

But that would never satisfy the Christians because it’s THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. TTC has become a symbol to the Christians and it symbolizes dominance.

USMC

April 12th, 2012
9:48 pm

Romney Edges Obama as Approval of President Drops
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/04/12/fox-news-poll-romney-edges-obama-as-approval-president-drops/

Here comes the tidal wave… tick tock tick tock

getalife

April 12th, 2012
9:51 pm

Yeah us,

March lock step with willard the lib.

Too funny.

You con kooks are marginalized by your own party.

Bruno

April 12th, 2012
9:51 pm

A guy I used to work with once told me about the media…….. “people are going to cry if it is too far left, too far right but in the end “if it bleeds it leads’ “

What’s been upsetting to me about the incident is the trumped up racial angle. Trayvon’s mother herself said that she believes the shooting was an accident, that Zimmerman didn’t intentionally target her son. An encounter gone horribly wrong. Some in the media claim that they are doing a good deed by “starting a dialogue about race”, but it’s hard to see what good can come by fanning the flames of hatred.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
9:52 pm

“But that would never satisfy the Christians because it’s THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. TTC has become a symbol to the Christians and it symbolizes dominance.”

That was my whole point about equal access and how a percentage will still wont theirs but will balk at equal access………

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
9:53 pm

Bruno,

Jay posted that link several months ago about the top pay of the top 10 CEOs in America and we did exactly that. We divided the obscene pay of the top 2 or 3 amongst the employees and there was all of 1 case of excessive pay in my opinion and I think that was McKesson. Their CEO was compensated something like 200 million in a company of only 3 or 5 thousand employees or something. Anyway divided up it would have been something like $3500 to every employee in the company. But that was the single, lone example.

2 of the other top 5 had huge salaries too but also had something like 50,000 employees and their bonus split up would have amounted to something like a $30 or $50 bonus for everyone else. But the bottom 7 CEOs their total pay was about the same as a decently paid stick and ball player and their pay divided up amongst employees would have been literally peanuts.

With the exception of the one CEO it was much ado about nothing.

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
9:54 pm

jm doesn’t understand taxes. No irony there.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
9:54 pm

Bruno

While we may disagree on some of the nuances and angles of both sides…….. I’m with 100% that it is a ratings and attention bonanza that in the end will probably not do much else but divide

I just hope that justice falls on the side facts and evidence………

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
9:55 pm

Trickle down worked???

Unfrigginbelievable.

But when one cannot produce the first scintilla of evidence, what the hey…

Take another swig, Sink.

You’ve mentioned the ATM fee before, but every account I saw credited upset customers for the change, not the protestors.

I guess you won’t ever see who set the backlash into motion, B.

This income equality is now front and center in the national dialogue because of whom?

The sideliners who won’t even acknowledge the facts, like frank and recon?

What answers do you have for income disparity??

I’ve posted them repeatedly. For nearly four years now.

This is all so discouraging; that so many of the very people getting hosed love getting hosed…

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
9:56 pm

Sorry, I had to look them up. The first 4 Commandments are all about stroking God’s ego. The next 4 are common sense needed for order in society and I’m not sure what the 10th one is about. So I’ll go with 6. The Six Commandments should be posted in every courthouse in the land.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
9:57 pm

They BOTH suck,

I was thinking of the code of Hammurabi too and I do think of that as being the first historical codification of law. But I think of the 10 commandments as being in the mindset of most western nations throughout history as they codified their laws. I’m thinking josef would probably go with Hammurabi as well.

Bruno

April 12th, 2012
9:57 pm

Not sure how pertinent this is, Jam, but here’s an article from North Carolina:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/06/19/1281805/ceo-pay-rose-at-most-of-biggest.html

It states in the article that the median CEO salary among the top 50 companies was 3.9 million per year.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
9:58 pm

Jamvet

He could show job creation but I can counter with job creation that occurred at much higher income and capital gains rates..

There is so much more to job creation than the just tax structure. it plays a role without a doubt, but if that was the only component…. didn’t Obama re up?

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

April 12th, 2012
10:00 pm

So I’ll go with 6. The Six Commandments should be posted in every courthouse in the land.

Well, then, that’s not even Christian and we’re about 80% of the country. Majority rules, right? Why don’t y’all convert to our religion, instead of making us give up ours? We’ll go easy on you.

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
10:01 pm

JamVet,

If some want to believe that trickle down worked, do as I do — trickle.

Don't Forget

April 12th, 2012
10:01 pm

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
8:29 pm

“When a gargantuan percentage of working families in America are making virtually no more in adjusted inflation dollars than they did in the 1970s,”

Why should they be? Are they working harder? Are they working smarter?

And yet……..
From Jamvet

In the 1970s the average American CEO made about 40 times more than his average employee. By the 1990s it was about 475 times more.

From 1990 to 2005 CEO pay rose 298%.

So, same question. Are CEO’s working that much harder? Are they that much smarter?

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
10:01 pm

If I were president of the US I would do it for one billion per year because if you take that and divide it up amongst all the taxpayers it’s only something like 7 dollars apiece.

Brosephus™

April 12th, 2012
10:01 pm

When the point is reached as it has now has in this country where over 50% of the population receives more from the federal government or better put the tax payers than they contribute, it’s no wonder there exists a great wealth disparity between the economic classes.

I’d wager that the reason your problem exists is because of the combination of outsourcing of jobs that the middle class worked and stagnant wages over the past 40 years has diminished the size and financial clout of the middle class. More money flowing through the economy by consumption helps the economy grow in a country who’s GDP is 75% dependent upon consumption. Saving money and investing money does not circulate money through the economy as much as pure spending.

————————-

How do ya’ll figure that. In the last recession I think nearly 2 in 5 millionaires got wiped out according to IRS stats that someone posted on here a couple of months ago. They took it on the chin pretty hard too. The concept that the gap between rich and poor is continously widening is something I keep hearing but see very little evidence of.

How’s this for starters. I know it’s an opinion piece, but he has links to the information he’s using. Check it out for yourself.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/an-economic-recovery-that-leaves-workers-further-behind/2012/04/10/gIQA75h78S_story.html

So, if not to workers, where’s the money going? Of the companies that comprise the Standard and Poor’s 500, net income (chiefly, their profits) has risen 23 percent since 2007, the last year of the bubble, the Wall Street Journal reported this week. Their cash reserves have increased 49 percent during that time — in large part because they’re neither hiring in the United States nor boosting their workers’ incomes. Workers are producing more: “In 2007, the companies generated an average of $378,000 in revenue for every employee on their payrolls,” the Journal reported. “Last year, that figure rose to $420,000.” But workers are seeing none of that increase in their pay.

Profits and dividends are up and wages are down — which is why, as University of California economist Emmanuel Saez has documented, all income growth in the United States in 2010 went to the wealthiest 10 percent of households, and 93 percent to the wealthiest 1 percent. Profits and dividends are up largely because wages are down, as JPMorgan Chase chief investment officer Michael Cembalest has documented. “U.S. labor compensation,” Cembalest wrote in a newsletter to the bank’s major investors last year, “is now at a 50-year low relative to both company sales and U.S. GDP.

If you choose to, you can check out the links for yourself. He’s using info from the BLS, Bloomberg, WSJ, and many others, so I don’t think you’ll find one-sided analysis there.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
10:01 pm

Even if this (income disparity) isn’t true, I need to believe it. ‘Cause I’m such a loooooooser.

Then,

“Frank, take another belt and tell us again about there being no disparity, pal!”

Didn’t say that.

Can you go thirty minutes with lying?

Sober or drunk?

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
10:01 pm

godless at 9:59

That is funny

_____________________________________________

TD

I see where you are coming from in terms of applying it directly to Western Civilization……. IMO opinion I think people are only looking at selective history if they think that the CoH didn’t influence the 10 Cs to some degree

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
10:02 pm

TD: “2 of the other top 5 had huge salaries too but also had something like 50,000 employees and their bonus split up would have amounted to something like a $30 or $50 bonus for everyone else. But the bottom 7 CEOs their total pay was about the same as a decently paid stick and ball player and their pay divided up amongst employees would have been literally peanuts.

With the exception of the one CEO it was much ado about nothing.”

Oh no. Facts over perception. Good job.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
10:03 pm

JamVet,

Trickle down did work. The Reagan revolution proved it.

But lets talk about that term trickle down as coined by the Dems because its an Orwellian play on what really happens. Supposedly the theory is that capital is freed up for entreprenurial activities and investors and entrepreneurs take that capital and invest it in a new business. Lets say a restaurant. So where does the trickle down come into effect?

The new restaurant owner has to pay vendors, all the employees, sewer hookups, alcohol licenses, business licenses, etc. Everybody else is getting paid and making money before that restaurant owner ever turns a profit. And he may never indeed even turn a profit and just end up going belly up after 6 months.

In the meantime everyone else made money- the waiters, employees, vendors, the state through licensing and taxes, The new business owner is the last one to get paid. So how again is this trickle down?

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
10:04 pm

TD

How do you account for other periods in time that had above average job creation with much higher rates?

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
10:04 pm

Don’t forget: “So, same question. Are CEO’s working that much harder? Are they that much smarter?”

I guess they are.

Bruno

April 12th, 2012
10:05 pm

This income equality is now front and center in the national dialogue because of whom?

Jam–Obama started with the class warfare rhetoric long before OWS hit the ground. He, like Jay, initially voiced support for the protest, but have backed off since most likely due to the lack of productivity. That and they’re costing the taxpayers millions of dollars annually.

As for income disparity being a top issue today, I don’t put in my own top ten.

I’ve posted them repeatedly. For nearly four years now.

Now don’t go pulling an RW on me, buddy. Give me at least one practical suggestion. I would never be comfortable with the feds setting CEO compensation, however. BTW, where’s your outrage for the CEO of GM?? He raked in a lot more than the CEOs of Honda or Toyota:

http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/09/17/321717/comparative-ceo-salaries/

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
10:07 pm

“I think people are only looking at selective history if they think that the CoH didn’t influence the 10 Cs to some degree”

They BOTH suck,

I guess it depends. Most Christians would have a hard time believing Hammurabi was telling God what to make as law. But God notwithstanding I’m sure the code of Hammurabi had a lot to do with other more mundane laws governing everyday commerce, property rights, all kinds of stuff. Too bad josef isn’t here tonight to learn us all a thing or 2 about the influence of Hammurabi’s code.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
10:07 pm

TD

he could e playing politics like many in DC do all the time, but Greenspan who was a champion at one time begs to differ with you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GQecQ06xus

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
10:08 pm

“Too bad josef isn’t here tonight to learn us all a thing or 2 about the influence of Hammurabi’s code.”

that’s a fact……..
Where are you josef?

getalife

April 12th, 2012
10:09 pm

Give the wealthy credit for gaming our system for their welfare.

Something you cons can be proud of.

Pathetic.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
10:10 pm

Well……….. I got into two conversations……. now it is time to get into something else……… got to go………………

Everyone have a great night and even better tomorrow

godless heathen

April 12th, 2012
10:10 pm

Well I must be off to chase the dream bunnies but I’d like to post this once more (for the 3rd time) just so the lefties can ponder an answer.

No doubt the income gap is widening. Did you see the report that about 32% of the high school students in Georgia drop out before attaining the high school diploma offered to them for free by the taxpayers? That 32% certainly aren’t going to help close the gap.

Are they?

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
10:12 pm

Now don’t go pulling an RW on me, buddy.

That is a low blow. REAL low. (grin)

That guy virtually never posted the very first, fact, figure or piece of data in his life. And to that extent he was VERY typical of Republican posters! You and Doomy being almost the only exceptions here.

OK, for the umpteenth time, I’ll get those recommendations.

But first another chart!

http://consumerist.com/images/resources/2007/04/changeinceopaygraph.jpg

And some sweet Alvin Lee…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7-8sCLWwLk

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

April 12th, 2012
10:12 pm

Where are you josef?

I think this Helen Thomas guy caught up to him. Me, I forgive alot, but this Helen is a vengeful sort.

Bruno

April 12th, 2012
10:12 pm

So, same question. Are CEO’s working that much harder? Are they that much smarter?

DF–I don’t have any facts to back me up right now, but I have to guess that some of these dramatic increases in “average” CEO compensation are due to a small group of guys like Bill Gates who make astronomical salaries. Averages can be computed several ways, including the mean, median and mode. I think median is a more fair average to look at than the mean, since a few huge salaries at the top make it look like all CEOs make hundreds of millions of dollars.

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
10:15 pm

With stocks paying out such a low dividend these days, it’s only proper that Republicans figure out some way to extend that tax break for qualifying dividends. After all, I’d have to tie up a million dollars all year long in a stock that only paid 5% annually in dividends just to get $50,000 in tax-free dividends with the current Bush tax cuts. That’s highway robbery. I think I need a tax credit in order to make it worth while.

0311/8541/5811/1811/1801

April 12th, 2012
10:18 pm

Headline: “Obama says Air Force One travel is ‘not my choice’ in sharp exchange”

Very true.

However, he “can” limit the number of trips somewhat and cut back on the number of “straphangers” that tag along. There are way too many.

It’s the least he can do in these tough times.

P.S. It’s not just Air Force One travel.

There is ALWAYS a 747 backup nearby.

Bruno

April 12th, 2012
10:18 pm

Jam–In looking at your chart, it looks like the biggest rise in CEO pay occurred during the dot.com bubble, then fell dramatically at the start of the Bush era. It’s a shame that the graph stops in 2007. I’d be curious to see what the increase has been under Obama.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
10:19 pm

“The labor market in executive talent is oddly segmented. Firms frequently cut costs by shifting low-skill labor to Asia, but never seem to cut costs by taking advantage of low-wage Asian executive talent.”

From that thinkprogress article that B posted. That is pretty funny.

One thing I find curious about the Japanese and American ways of executive leadership. The article states that Japanese corporate policy is that the top executive cannot make more than 10 times the wage of the lowest paid employee. I honestly thought it was more like 100 times in Japan. In any event an American CEO routinely makes 200-400 times or more that of the lowest paid worker- a legitimate source of liberal anger at CEO pay regardless of whether the CEO does a good job or not.

My question is this. If this really is an issue with liberals then why don’t the liberals simply make a law that a corporation cannot give its CEO total compensation exceeding 100 times that of the lowest paid employee? I suspect its because it would be unconstitutional though I have no idea if it would be or not. But if so I suspect that Congress could make some type of law to where if CEO pay did exceed that threshold that the corporations tax rate goes higher, or that they lose govt contracts or tax breaks, etc.

I dunno. But my question is that if it is not unconstitutional then why is it that liberals have never proposed a cap on CEO pay vs the pay of the lowest paid employee? Is it because it would be unconstitutional or simply because the liberal leaders don’t want it and are part of the same hypocrisy?

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
10:22 pm

Bruno,

First to help American workers decimated rights and incomes, repeal the Taft-Hartley Act.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
10:31 pm

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
10:07 pm

TD

he could e playing politics like many in DC do all the time, but Greenspan who was a champion at one time begs to differ with you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GQecQ06xus

They BOTH suck,

With all due respect if you are going to post a youtube that claims that Greenspan said that trickle down didn’t work then you ought to listen to the video. I listened to the whole thing. And not only does Greenspan not even mention Reagan or Reaganomics he says absolutely nothing in that video that would give the foggiest idea that Reagan and trickle down didnt work. What little Greenspan said in that tidbit would indicate support for Reaganonomics- especially the part about high tax rates bringing up diminishing tax revenues into the treasury. How anyone could misconstrue that as an indictment of trickle down Reaganomics is beyond me.

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
10:33 pm

WASHINGTON (CNNMoney) — In 2010, chief executives at some of the nation’s largest companies earned an average of $11.4 million in total pay — 343 times more than a typical American worker.

Despite the collapse of the financial market at the hands of executives less than 3 years ago, the disparity between CEO and workers’ pay has continued to grow to levels that are simply stunning.

Chief executive salaries at 299 firms traded on the S&P 500 compensation was up 23% in 2010, compared to 2009.

Typical worker pay, which was $33,190 for all occupations in 2009, the most recent year for which data is available.

in 1980, CEOs at the largest companies received 42 times the pay of the average worker. In 2000 the gap hit a high, with CEOs making 525 times the average worker.

In 2010, the gap narrowed with CEOs making 343 times the average worker.

5 highest-paid CEOs

1. Philippe P. Dauman: $84.5 million – Viacom
2. Ray R. Irani: $76.1 million – Occidental Petroleum
3. Lawrence J. Ellison: $70.1 million – Oracle
4. Michael D. White: $32.9 million – Direct TV
5. John F. Lundgren: $32.6 million – Stanley, Black & Decker

Brosephus™

April 12th, 2012
10:35 pm

One of the studies that’s linked to my10:01 post. Sorry for the long post….

http://elsa.berkeley.edu/~saez/saez-UStopincomes-2010.pdf

Great Recession 2007-2009

During the Great Recession, from 2007 to 2009, average real income
per family declined dramatically by 17.4% (Table 1),1 the largest two year
drop since the Great Depression. Average real income for the top percentile
fell even faster (36.3 percent decline, Table 1), which lead to a decrease in
the top percentile income share from 23.5 to 18.1 percent (Figure 2). Average
real income for the bottom 99% also fell sharply by 11.6%, also by far the
largest two year decline since the Great Depression. This drop of 11.6% more
than erases the 6.8% income gain from 2002 to 2007 for the bottom 99%.

The sharp fall in top incomes is explained primarily by the collapse of
realized capital gains due to the stock-market crash. Aggregate realized
capital gains fell from $895 billion in 2007 to $236 billion in 2009. Indeed,
including realized capital gains, the top decile income share dropped from
49.7% in 2007 to 46.5% in 2009 while excluding realized capital gains, the top
decile income share remained virtually constant from 45.7% in 2007 to 45.5%
in 2009 (Figure 1).

The fall in top decile income share from 2007 to 2009 is actually less
than during the 2001 recession from 2000 to 2002, in part because the Great
recession has hit bottom 90% incomes much harder than the 2001 recession
(Table 1), and in part because upper incomes excluding realized capital gains
have resisted relatively well during the Great Recession. The top 1%
absorbed 49% of income losses from 2007 to 2009 while they absorbed a
bigger 57% share of the income losses from 2000 to 2002.

2010: Recovering from the Great Recession

In 2010, average real income per family grew by 2.3% (Table 1) but the
gains were very uneven. Top 1% incomes grew by 11.6% while bottom 99%
incomes grew only by 0.2%. Hence, the top 1% captured 93% of the income
gains in the first year of recovery. Such an uneven recovery can help explain
the recent public demonstrations against inequality. It is likely that this uneven
recovery has continued in 2011 as the stock market has continued to recover.
National Accounts statistics show that corporate profits and dividends
distributed have grown strongly in 2011 while wage and salary accruals have
only grown only modestly. Unemployment and non-employment have
remained high in 2011.

This suggests that the Great Recession will only depress top income
shares temporarily and will not undo any of the dramatic increase in top
income shares that has taken place since the 1970s. Indeed, excluding
realized capital gains, the top decile share in 2010 is equal to 46.3%, higher
than in 2007 (Figure 1).

Looking further ahead, based on the US historical record, falls in
income concentration due to economic downturns are temporary unless
drastic regulation and tax policy changes are implemented and prevent
income concentration from bouncing back. Such policy changes took place
after the Great Depression during the New Deal and permanently reduced
income concentration until the 1970s (Figures 2, 3). In contrast, recent
downturns, such as the 2001 recession, lead to only very temporary drops in
income concentration (Figures 2, 3).

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
10:38 pm

TaxPayer

April 12th, 2012
10:39 pm

So by reducing the tax rate on qualifying dividend income of say $50,000 from 15% to 0%, I wonder how much added federal tax revenue was brought in to the government coffers.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
10:40 pm

That graph on CEO pay shows a dramatic rise in pay under Clinton and then a fall in CEO pay under W. And then CEO picks up a little bit under W in 2004 and after. To be fair though the CEO pay closely traced stock market performance which was way up during Clinton due to the internet boom and of course both stock and CEO pay were both down in the early 2000s under W after the dot.com bust.

Its pretty evident from that graph that CEO pay is closely tied to stock performance and has nothing if anything to do with who the president is. CEO pay is a function of stock performance according to that graph.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
10:42 pm

godless: I have been trying to make the case that the concept of not stealing and not killing comes from a basic human nature of tribe mentality, where we seek to protect ourselves and our own. What is your take?

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
10:44 pm

He wasn’t talking about your money market account at your local credit union

ALAN GREENSPAN: Well, remember that what an ideology is, is a conceptual framework with the way people deal with reality. Everyone has one. You have to — to exist, you need an ideology. The question is whether it is accurate or not.

And what I’m saying to you is, yes, I found a flaw. I don’t know how significant or permanent it is, but I’ve been very distressed by that fact.

REP. HENRY WAXMAN: You found a flaw in the reality…

ALAN GREENSPAN: Flaw in the model that I perceived is the critical functioning structure that defines how the world works, so to speak.

REP. HENRY WAXMAN: In other words, you found that your view of the world, your ideology, was not right, it was not working?

ALAN GREENSPAN: That is — precisely. No, that’s precisely the reason I was shocked, because I had been going for 40 years or more with very considerable evidence that it was working exceptionally well.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
10:47 pm

“Such an uneven recovery can help explain
the recent public demonstrations against inequality.”

My question is how many of these OWS protesters have a clue as to the numbers brocephus just presented? Judging by the various interviews with them I don’t think any of them were statisticians, actuarys or mathematicians who would have any real numbers detailing the empirical data presented above. Seemed to me they were just venting about the bailouts, the lackluster recovery in general, and teen or in this case 20 year old angst.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
10:49 pm

They BOTH suck: ALAN GREENSPAN: That is — precisely. No, that’s precisely the reason I was shocked, because I had been going for 40 years or more with very considerable evidence that it was working exceptionally well.

No matter how long it takes, evidence based thinking is what happened here. And that is the RIGHT way to approach things.

Obama in a speech on April 10: Now, I was not a science major myself, but I enjoyed science when I was young. And if I recall correctly, if an experiment fails badly — (laughter) — you learn from that, right? Sometimes you can learn from failure. That’s part of the data that teaches you stuff, that expands our knowledge. But you don’t then just keep on doing the same thing over and over again. You go back to the drawing board. You try something different. But that’s not what’s been happening with these folks in Washington.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
10:51 pm

Greenspan speaking to Jamvets point about income disparity and also to Godless point about education

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqx88MyUSck

Adam

April 12th, 2012
10:51 pm

Thulsa: What’s ironic about your last statement is that you have made no survey or statistical analysis of the Occupy crowd, and are criticizing them for your PERCEPTION that they are not doing the same with some specific issue.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
10:53 pm

Adam

He is speaking DIRECTLY about his philology of trickle down

Anyone wants to say well he didn’t say “trickle down”, can play that game all they want……..

It is more than obvious that Greenspan is speaking DIRECTLY to his economic philosophy and how it was FLAWED and flawed BADLY

Brosephus™

April 12th, 2012
10:54 pm

Judging by the various interviews with them I don’t think any of them were statisticians, actuarys or mathematicians who would have any real numbers detailing the empirical data presented above.

I would not let the interviews of a few foul my opinion of the thousands of others who have not been heard from. If you go by interviews, you’d swear there was not a single educated Black person in Atlanta under the age of 40 who could talk using correct English. Media interviews tend to drag out the worst possible person as a speaker and put them on display for all to see. If it’s not a designated spokesperson, I wouldn’t advise using them as opinion fodder.

That’s just me though…

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
10:54 pm

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
10:55 pm

Doom, I’m no economist but supply-side economics has been a dismal failure.

Reagan and gang though it more important to reward investment over consumption.

And nearly 70% o fthe US economy is based on what – consumption!

Reagan and gang also were the architects of giving BIG business pretty much everything they want and requiring nothing in return. Not even their fare share of paying taxes. Which fell from 40% of US treasury revenues post WWII to 7% now. And the neocons want to cut them further!!

Not only that, the Republicans (primarily) gutted every regulation they could, from fiscal requiements to environmental protections to workers rights and in exchange for the largess from the corporate paymasters agreed to not even keep an eye on the foxes who were guarding the American henhouse.

And that stunning Greenspan apology, that BOTH linked, is proof positive of what went so horrifically wrong.

Adam

April 12th, 2012
10:58 pm

They BOTH suck: Precisely. What is fascinating is how often the evidence is merely pushed aside in favor of ideology, despite the trickle down people getting EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANTED, it failing to solve even a single problem (except the “problem” of rich people being taxed high, I guess), and then pretending either a) they didn’t do enough to get their way, it wasn’t pure, etc, or b) they didn’t ever have even something close to what they wanted, were thwarted in every way, dadgum liberal media, etc etc.

Brosephus™

April 12th, 2012
10:59 pm

Y’all have fun. I’ve had enough of this stuff for a while.

Catch y’all later

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
11:00 pm

They BOTH suck,

Ok. I figured it had to be a mistake. Because the link you provided did not have Henry Waxman in it at all.

Couple other things though. I’m not sure Greenspan wasn’t a little confused or not quite following Waxman above for a couple of reasons.

No. 1 Waxman is presenting leading questions.

No. 2 Greenspan states in his last sentence that he had been going for 40 years or more with very considerable evidence that what he knew was working very well. Well what the hell is the man talking about? Were we running Reaganomic policies under Carter, LBJ, and even Richard Nixon when Nixon proclaimed “We are all Keynesians now” as a Republican??? This makes no sense.

No. 3 And also it doesn’t jive with the hard economic data of the Reagan era. 21 million new jobs from the bottom of the 81-82 recession and phenomenal economic growth of 7% or more do not lie. Those are the facts.

No. 4 In the mistaken link that you did give me it showed Greenspan talking apparently about the Reagan days and in that link he seems to think that Reaganomics worked. He makes it a point of noting that high marginal income taxes lessened revenues in that exchange and in talking I presume about the reagan years Greenspan noted that the problem on the spending side was political. He says that very matter of factly which was what Reagan had said all along.

Do you have the link itself of the Waxman- Greenspan exchange because I would like to see more elaboration on what Greenspan was saying. Given the actual growth record of the Reagan years he cannot say that Reaganomics did not work. The employment and economic growth rates do not lie. My opinion is that perhaps you could have been referring to the Laffer curve or deficit spending but as far as growth goes the growth that occurred during the Reagan years is not in dispute by anyone.

Don't Forget

April 12th, 2012
11:01 pm

Bruno, I don’t think that’s correct. Guys like Gates often have relatively modest salaries but make all their money off of capital gains and I don’t believe those or any other stock packages are counted in those figures. Here’s the top 25 CEO’s from 2011

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mef45eghm/john-hammergren/

The top guy got 131 million. There are something like 7000 publicly traded companies and if we assume about 3000 privately traded companies that would spread out to 13,000 per company. It’s a very rough estimate but I still don’t think it’s a large percentage and like I said, the stock options dwarf the salary’s.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
11:02 pm

“I mean, Kemp-Roth [Reagan's 1981 tax cut] was always a Trojan horse to bring down the top rate…. It’s kind of hard to sell ‘trickle down.’ So the supply-side formula was the only way to get a tax policy that was really ‘trickle down.’ Supply-side is ‘trickle-down’ theory.”

David Alan Stockman
Directer of the Office of Management and Budget for Ronald Reagan

81 to 85

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
11:06 pm

“growth that occurred during the Reagan years is not in dispute by anyone.”

That is true and I didn’t say there wasn’t growth

There was growth in the 50s with much higher rates
Growth in the 90s

My whole point is that many many factors come into play when an economy is rolling whether it is a “real” or “bubble” economy……….

While you can’t tax people and business out of existence, this notion that this country hasn’t had super growth at higher rates is poppy cock and we have also had down times with high and low rates……… hence tax rates are one of many variables

JamVet

April 12th, 2012
11:09 pm

OK guys, finally got the work done I had to do tonight and now I’m off to see the sandman.

Later, gators…

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
11:09 pm

Reaganomics is a name…. it is all supply side / trickle down

Greenspan is referring to that as well as regulations or lack of constraint by business when regs are lowered

Look up his love for Ayn Rand and following her philosophies on economics……..

I’m not advocating for communism by any means, but even Greenspan is saying that what appeared to be working was badly flawed

Bruno

April 12th, 2012
11:13 pm

Haven’t put this one up in a while. Major tripping music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_lwVj1QtSs

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
11:13 pm

Adam and They both suck,

I think you guys are reading way too much into that one exchange between Greenspan and Waxman. Greenspan is saying that he found a fundamental flaw in the way the world works. He never said he found a fundamental flaw in Reaganomics or supply side economics. And how could he? He’s stating he found something wrong in 40 years of observing how the world works when we weren’t doing Reagan supply economics for much of that time frame.

And Adam while my view of the occupy crowd is by no means scientific all I saw is a bunch of sloganeering idiots. I never saw one single, rational dialogue from one single occupy protester. It was clear to me that none of these folks had the foggiest idea of how economics work whether it be on the macro or micro scale.

Now if you can show me several video clips of protestors making reasonable arguments backed up by empirical data such as that that Brocephus provided then I can be persuaded that at least a handful of them aren’t completely clueless.

Don't Forget

April 12th, 2012
11:15 pm

The Reagan tax cuts are given way too much credit for the turnaround in the 1980’s. A much more important factor was his tight monetary policies, implemented by Paul Volker which got inflation under control.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
11:22 pm

“Greenspan is referring to that as well as regulations or lack of constraint by business when regs are lowered”

They BOTH suck,

Is that what he said or what you think he said? Can you provide the full link if possible. It doesn’t take a genius to understand that deregulation works. Its not even debateable. When the airlines were deregulated pricing dropped dramatically and new routes and choices opened up. When transportation, gas, etc. was deregulated the economy took off.

And I’ll give you the most glaring example of deregulation that is indisputable. Remember how expensive a long distance call was instate. When I was incollege in 85 or 86 right before the dereg act of 86 took place I remember my buddy calling his girlfriend in Birmingham from Montgomery only 85 miles away. It was 33 cents a minute instate long distance. and 33 cents then was like a dollar or more today.

After the telecomm dereg act take a look at the explosion in long distance svcs, the enormous drop in rates, the choices, and the ensuing explosion in cell phone service to the products and svcs we have today in long distance landline svc and in cell service. Do you honestly believe that all this woulda happened if we hadn’t had the telecomm dereg act of 1986?

That one deregulatory act is responsible for an incaluculable advancement in svcs and products that is undeniable and which has produced billions in wealth for numerous people in those industries. To deny the influence of this one deregulatory act would be like denying that the sun is going to rise in the east in the morning.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
11:32 pm

Dont Forget,

Volcker made the conditions possible for economic growth to resume again. But the rate of growth and the sheer size of economic expansion was due to Reagan deregulating and unleashing the economy and of course to tax cuts to a degree. That’s the difference in the phenomenal growth under Reagan coming off a steep recession and the difference in 1.7% economic growth in the 3rd full year under Obama.

Now if I recall correctly top marginal rates were around 70% when Reagan lowered them. And that did in fact have a profound effect.

Matter of fact if you go and look up the IRS tables historically going back to the 1920s you will find that when marginal tax rates and top cap. gains tax rates are at absurdly high rates that economic activity drops as well as federal tax receipts. Its not a debateable point because it is proven empirically with IRS data.

The only question then is what is the appropriate goldilocks rate where we both maximize risk taking behavior coupled with maximization of tax revenue to the treasury. On cap gains taxes my feeling is that it should be raised to 18-19% from the current 15%. And anything above 25-30% and you start decreasing revenue receipts to the teasury.

Same with marginal tax rates which I think are fine in the 30%-39% range as the top rates. I’ld have to research what the closest goldilocks number is on top marginal rates a little more closely though. The data from what I remember is not as conclusive as it is on cap. gains tax rates.

getalife

April 12th, 2012
11:33 pm

LSU vs Alabama Friday night.

Baseball bragging rights.

Keep on rocking in the free world.

Thulsa Doom

April 12th, 2012
11:33 pm

Damn. Had no idea it was so late. Doomy out. Yall have a good night.

They BOTH suck

April 12th, 2012
11:33 pm

and Im gone…………………..

Greenspan urged that securitizers be required to retain “a meaningful part” of securities they issued. He said that regulatory reform will be necessary in the areas of fraud, settlement, and securitization to reestablish financial stability.

He also conceded he was “partially wrong” about his belief that certain derivatives, such as credit default swaps, did not need to be regulated.

Bruno

April 12th, 2012
11:44 pm

DF–Couldn’t go through your whole link, but I would question the first CEO who made over $130 million in compensation. That represented more than 10% of their total revenue. By contrast, the CEO of Disney took home about 1% of the total revenue.

independent thinker

April 12th, 2012
11:45 pm

Repeal Obamacare and repeal EMTALA passed by Saint Ronnie. Let the states decide what health care to provide their citizens and what insurance coverage they need. That should guaranty the US will be at the bottom of the list for western countries when it comes to health care – what is wrong with that? Let the uninsured rot in the streets if a state chooses.

Don't Forget

April 12th, 2012
11:56 pm

Thulsa – sorry but the drop of long distance rates was the result of that anti-trust lawsuit against ATT that was finally settle in 1984. That allowed MCI and Sprint as well as others that followed to compete. Prior to that, ATT controlled most of the long distance lines and had a monopoly. It was the breakup of monopoly that allowed increased competition, not deregulation.

Don't Forget

April 13th, 2012
12:00 am

Well Bruno, the source is Forbes, usually considered to be a fairly reliable source.

ken

April 13th, 2012
12:43 am

Who is Van Jones ?????

stands for decibels

April 13th, 2012
5:48 am

mornin’.

For everyone who makes nasty, gratuitous cracks about elected officials (myself included), stories like this are useful for a bit of perspective.

Newark Fire Director Fateen Ziyad told the newspaper that Booker had recounted to him how he heard a woman yelling “I’m back here,” from a back bedroom when the mayor rushed into the building but was held back by his security details. The mayor yelled at his security guards to release him, saying: “She is going to die, she is going to die,” Ziyad told the newspaper, adding the mayor crossed through smoke and flames to grab the woman and carry her in his arms out of the building.

Normal, Plain and Simple

April 13th, 2012
6:11 am

Good morning Stands,

Some people will do anything to save a vote… :)

Normal, Plain and Simple

April 13th, 2012
6:22 am

Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)

April 13th, 2012
6:33 am

Conservatives will vote for a turnip as long as it means Obama is out of the “White” House.

Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)

April 13th, 2012
6:38 am

What did he say? If people don’t have car insurance and get in wrecks they cost the rest of us alot of money?

mwuahahahahahaha. You losers got your man! Run with it!

stands for decibels

April 13th, 2012
7:00 am

Some people will do anything to save a vote…

yep. Shameless pandering!

TaxPayer

April 13th, 2012
7:15 am

Good morning y’all.

TaxPayer

April 13th, 2012
7:19 am

Everyone finished their taxes?

Mick

April 13th, 2012
7:32 am

taxpayer

Done…finished em the first week of february…once again krugman completely nails it-

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/13/opinion/krugman-cannibalize-the-future.html?_r=1&hp

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

April 13th, 2012
7:33 am

Good Morning Campers…..

Taxes Done.

Everybody get their southern window draperies project done?

Just a few more dates with the old singer and my will be.

I feel cooler already.

Normal, Plain and Simple

April 13th, 2012
7:33 am

“Everyone finished their taxes?”

Yep, and got back the biggest return I have ever had! I must have over paid my fair share… :)

Mick

April 13th, 2012
7:35 am

I thought love was only true in fairy tales, meant for someone else but not for me…ahh…love was out to get me….

Normal, Plain and Simple

April 13th, 2012
7:39 am

Today is Friday the 13th…but I warn you…Saturday the 14th is the most dangerous. You are vigilant all day Friday, and relax on Saturday…THEN THEY GET YOU!!!

TaxPayer

April 13th, 2012
7:40 am

I use TurboTax and decided to run some hypotheticals after I finished my return. So I set up a return for a retired married couple in their fifties that earned 1000 in interest plus 10,000 in qualified dividend income plus 40,000 in capital gains. Of course it doesn’t really matter how you proportion the capital gains and dividends. Anyway, this couple had no other income or expenses to report and their federal tax bill was zero. You can actually make even more than that and still pay zero. Isn’t that cool.

stevie ray..clowns to the left and jokers to the right, here I am...

April 13th, 2012
7:40 am

FINN,

What is wrong with those who want anyone but Obama the incompetent? Isn’t that standard, painfully obvious politics? I hear that over and over like the DEMS wouldn’t do anything to oust a GOP incompetent…

Mick

April 13th, 2012
7:41 am

normal

They try to get me everyday, but…..fail, because I get them first!!

stevie ray..clowns to the left and jokers to the right, here I am...

April 13th, 2012
7:44 am

TAXPAYER,

I’m still busy trying to find a means to pay less taxes legally. It’s too bad folks like me are attacked for doing so…I hope to get my effective tax rate down around 22%….I figure paying as little as possible legally is my fair share…wouldn’t you agree?

Mick

April 13th, 2012
7:45 am

**I figure paying as little as possible legally is my fair share**

It’s the american effing way!!

TaxPayer

April 13th, 2012
7:46 am

stevie ray,

the example I gave is legal.

stevie ray..clowns to the left and jokers to the right, here I am...

April 13th, 2012
7:47 am

I reckon if liberals had their way, we would all pay for a movie according to our taxable income regardless of the quality of the movie…some would pay $1, I’d get stuck paying “my fair share” of $20 bucks or so…

stevie ray..clowns to the left and jokers to the right, here I am...

April 13th, 2012
7:49 am

TAXPAYER,

I wasn’t suggesting your examples weren’t legal…just that all this hubris about those evil 1%’ers not paying a “fair share” as defined by how much government overspends and wastes our cash is crap. My fair share is whatever I can legally get away with…

TaxPayer

April 13th, 2012
7:50 am

stevie ray,

the current federal tax code is pretty much as it was passed by BushCo in 2001 and 2003. Why you trying to blame others for the conservative way of doing things.

JKL2

April 13th, 2012
7:52 am

finn- Conservatives will vote for a turnip as long as it means Obama is out of the “White” House.

Couldn’t be any worse than what we already have. I’m willing to bet the turnip has more leadership ability.

JKL2

April 13th, 2012
7:56 am

stevie ray- I reckon if liberals had their way, we would all pay for a movie according to our taxable income

Here’s an oldie from the past for you. It got great response. http://ragbrai.com/2009/07/19/obama-lemonade-near-henderson/

Normal, Plain and Simple

April 13th, 2012
7:57 am

Mick

April 13th, 2012
7:57 am

Yeah…let’s pivot to the etch a sketch leadership model, that’s the ticket…

Normal, Plain and Simple

April 13th, 2012
7:58 am

JamVet

April 13th, 2012
8:10 am

Normal, love that Hendrix and Purple Hayes.

Cons, I got bad news for ya, Elmer Fudd’s not running and there is no way in hell that the outraged, stepped on working class in this country is gonna elect George Willard Bush.

And there are only so many 1%ers and their blind, sycophantic rubes that vote.

The guys that YOU elected totally trashed the place – for eight straight years – and now you act like nothing happened and you deserve another chance.

To quote the father of the idiot, “Nope. Not gonna do it. Wouldn’t be prudent at this juncture.”

TaxPayer

April 13th, 2012
8:10 am

stevie ray,

you must not be making your money the way the GOP intended. I just ran another example for this married couple in their fifties with a total of 85,000 in unearned income spread out between interest and dividends and capital gains and the federal tax is still zero. And no payroll taxes and no AMT. There must be a bunch of old retired folks, living off investment income, in Florida (of course not just Florida) that are mighty happy with their tax returns.

Mick

April 13th, 2012
8:13 am

jamvet

Good morning, like the way you come roaring in with that post…just another day in paradise…we will never forget the previous abomination no matter how much they yelp…

Bud Wiser

April 13th, 2012
8:16 am

So what group do you suppose will make the first video about the unconstitutionality of Obamacare, and it being tossed out?

And what shall they mark as the anniversary of this increasingly unpopular piece of garbage? There can only be 3 choices:

1. “You’ll have to pass it to see what’s in it” Pelosi Day?
2. Obama signs this unread trash into law?
3. SCOTUS declares it invalid and unconstitutional?

Frankly I think that one day choice number 3 above will be declared a national holiday.

Mick

April 13th, 2012
8:19 am

So what group of americans will be happy about insurance companies being able to reject you because of preconditions? That’s just one very important issue methinks…

Tax Havens Report: Small Businesses Pay The Price For Big Corporations

April 13th, 2012
8:20 am

When big corporations use offshore tax havens, small businesses pay the price — literally. If they were to cover the cost of corporate abuse of tax havens in 2011, the average U.S. small business would pay $2,116, according to a report released Tuesday by consumer group U.S. PIRG. The estimate is based on Census numbers for businesses with fewer than 100 employees.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/12/tax-havens-report_n_1420912.html

JamVet

April 13th, 2012
8:31 am

Corporate abuse???

Ask our Republican experts here, there is NO such thing.

That is merely class warfare being promoted by the moochers in this country against the winners and producers.

…this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom — and that government of the corporations, by the corporations, for the corporations, shall not perish from the earth. ~Mitt Romney

Corporations are people, my friend. ~Thomas Jefferson

Tribute to Trayvon Martin

April 13th, 2012
8:37 am

Joseph

April 13th, 2012
8:41 am

I realize its confusing to you libs but the state level is a little different than the federal level….. Obama has trampled all over the constitution by forcing people to buy healthcare. Plan and simply!

By the way one big difference will be that Obamacare will be struck down by the Supreme Court while Romeycare will be fine on the state level…..

JamVet

April 13th, 2012
8:42 am

From that link at 8:20:

The U.S. Treasury loses an estimated $100 billion a year due to tax haven abuse, with $60 billion of that being tax avoidance by U.S. corporations, according to a Senate investigation. Another study by the GAO found that at least 83 of the top 100 publicly traded corporations use offshore tax havens.

According to a recent survey of 500 small-business owners nationwide conducted by American Sustainable Business Council, Main Street Alliance and Small Business Majority, nine out of 10 small-business owners said U.S. multinationals’ use of loopholes to shift profits to offshore subsidiaries to avoid taxes is a problem. Meanwhile, three-quarters said their small business is harmed when loopholes allow big corporations to avoid taxes, and more than two thirds believe big corporations are not paying their fair share of taxes.

Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.), a co-sponsor of the Stop Tax Haven Abuse Act (H.R. 2669), also attended the press conference. “The simple fact of the matter is this: tax breaks for Big Oil, corporate jets, and companies that send jobs overseas have the practical effect of raising taxes on everyone else,” Van Hollen said. “That’s not right. That’s not smart. That’s not fair. And it’s high time we do something about it.”

OF COURSE, it’s not smart.

Unless you’re a fat cat, and then it’s VERY smart to get these middle class, small business owning Republican rubes to pay more…

Lyman Hall

April 13th, 2012
8:43 am

Here is an excellent idea for 2 dollar gas.
.
One moonless night ………..let our Federal overlords mandate that all gas sellers switch their pump prices to LITERS.
.
This would work on 98% of the Obama/Romney supporters…………..no?

godless heathen

April 13th, 2012
8:44 am

adam: “godless: I have been trying to make the case that the concept of not stealing and not killing comes from a basic human nature of tribe mentality, where we seek to protect ourselves and our own. What is your take?”

Since even the chimpanzee and other great ape societies don’t tolerate it, I’d say you are correct. And they surely didn’t get it from stone tablets brought down from a mountain top.

Lyman Hall

April 13th, 2012
8:47 am

“Afghanistan now world’s top marijuana supplier”
.
Question.
.
Do U.S. Troops follow the drug trade or does the drug trade follow U.S. troops?
They have quite the doobieous history.

JamVet

April 13th, 2012
8:47 am

I realize its confusing to you Republicans but a boatload of the neocons were absolutely gaga about implementing an individual mandate at the national level until………… they were against it, cuz you know who, wanted it.

Flip.

Flop.

Adam And The Ants – Hoody Two Shoes

Very suspicious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3g5G0PFuXQ

Jm

April 13th, 2012
8:48 am

By the way, jay’s blog post is a direct talking points strategy from the Obama campaign

Jay really is just 99% DNC talking points

TaxPayer

April 13th, 2012
8:48 am

Little matters like getting your insurance rescinded or not getting any coverage due to pre-existing conditions only affect certain people. People on Medicare or Medicaid are not affected. People with group coverage are not affected. Individuals or small businesses trying to purchase coverage for their family or just a few people are the ones affected because they do not receive the same protections under the law as those on group coverage, etc. Laws tend to be biased toward protecting your voter base and we all know that the older demographic tends to turn out more votes than the younger demographic so you make sure that the older folks have safe and stable insurance coverage and that their investment income is not taxed and you have a winning strategy for an election.

Dems war on women!

April 13th, 2012
8:48 am

Jay why do you all keep running from Hillary Rosen? She is just showing the true colors of the dem party and their hatred for women… Just like blacks they need to stay on the plantation and know their place…..

Fred ™

April 13th, 2012
8:50 am

godless heathen

April 13th, 2012
8:44 am

adam: “godless: I have been trying to make the case that the concept of not stealing and not killing comes from a basic human nature of tribe mentality, where we seek to protect ourselves and our own. What is your take?”

Since even the chimpanzee and other great ape societies don’t tolerate it, I’d say you are correct. And they surely didn’t get it from stone tablets brought down from a mountain top.
+++++++++++++++++++++++

You two sure don;t get out much. Geez Godless Heathen, monkeys and apes? Really? You mean you have NEVER sat outside the ape/money house and watched them? The biggest and strongest take whatever the hell they want fro the others and if the others resist they beat the hell out of them. I guess you two never heard of law of the jungle eh?Animals kill each other all the time AND they “steal” from pone another.

That was really weak Heathen lol.

Joseph

April 13th, 2012
8:50 am

Now that the GOP has an obvious winner polls are starting to shape up and its bad news for Obama…

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/04/12/fox-news-poll-romney-edges-obama-as-approval-president-drops/

Jm

April 13th, 2012
8:51 am

The Obama government is a disgrace

See Jamie Dupree’s blog

St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia

April 13th, 2012
8:52 am

My once great Georgia has pretty much tied a rocket to its ass on
the way to the bottom. I guess its just goin to hell and it doesn’t
want to stand in line with the rest of the Republicans. It has just
blown right by Mississippi, Haiti & Somalia.
Quiz
Of Haiti, Somalia & Georgia, which does NOT have nurses for PreK-K?
ding
Of Haiti, Somalia, & Ga, which just made a “rule” that parents can’t
bring their kids before 7:30 or after 7:50, regardless of jobs, work, etc
w/out a $65 upcharge, even though you PAY them already?
ding ding

I think Ga is trying to run off successful, educated professional people.
I really do. And its working. Have you people up there lost your minds?
I think the St Simons family is coming to a decision.
I’ll have to change my handle here to Amelia, harshing my manhood thing
but that’s ok

TaxPayer

April 13th, 2012
8:53 am

Can you imagine what could happen to that older voter dynamic if all of a sudden the younger crowd such as the OWS folks started showing up more consistently at the polls. It’s mind boggling.

Jm

April 13th, 2012
8:57 am

Taxpayer

I am the younger crowd

And I think Obama, other than being a decent human being, is pathetic

Doggone/GA

April 13th, 2012
8:58 am

“The biggest and strongest take whatever the hell they want fro the others and if the others resist they beat the hell out of them”

Thus showing that reverse Robinhoodism also has ancient roots

TaxPayer

April 13th, 2012
8:59 am

Don’t forget folks. If those Bush tax cuts do not get another extension, they expire this year. That means no more $85,000 dollars of tax-free investment income for a retired married couple under 65 taking just the standard deduction.

TaxPayer

April 13th, 2012
9:00 am

What’s wrong, Jm. Are you scared of losing your tax-free investment income once the Bush tax cuts expire.

JamVet

April 13th, 2012
9:02 am

Joseph, we were all having a huge laugh about that Faux News poll last night.

Just dripping with dead red Republicans and Flip leads Barry by a tiny 2% points?

The silly moderate turned neocon is gonna get McCained…

Doggone/GA

April 13th, 2012
9:02 am

“If those Bush tax cuts do not get another extension”

Don’t forget folks…this is an election year

Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette

April 13th, 2012
9:03 am

Dems war on women!

April 13th, 2012
8:48 am
Jay why do you all keep running from Hillary Rosen? She is just showing the true colors of the dem party and their hatred for women… Just like blacks they need to stay on the plantation and know their place…..

………..

Foster Friess Romney now a supporter comments on the need for President Obama’s teleprompter to be bullet proof.

and just what kind of “war on…..” is that?

sick puppies

JamVet

April 13th, 2012
9:07 am

Granny, interesting how the racists and bigots crawl out from the Republican woodwork occasionally, huh?

godless heathen

April 13th, 2012
9:08 am

“I guess you two never heard of law of the jungle eh?Animals kill each other all the time AND they “steal” from pone another.

That was really weak Heathen lol.”

You have a point about the stealing within a group in the zoo but let one in the wild go to another group and try to steal and see what he gets. As to killing, if a chimp starts offing members of its own group, he won’t be around long.

Viola Davis

April 13th, 2012
9:36 am

Hypocrite!
This is the “best” political ad President Obama can use in the next election!
Believe it or not, I’m against the mandate.

Don Abernethy

April 13th, 2012
10:00 am

Maybe Romney learned a lesson in Mass that socialized medicine will in no way be equal to the health care we enjoy today. We all make mistakes and I think he realizes that he made a mistake. Of course Obama has never made a mistake??? Bookman has never made a mistake???

Woodstock Mike

April 13th, 2012
10:08 am

So does this mean that liberals support Mitt Romney?

Woodstock Mike

April 13th, 2012
10:09 am

And what is Obama’s most significant political acheivement? Supreme Court shot down Obamacare. The budget he submitted didn’t even get one vote from a Democrat!! LOL

Woodstock Mike

April 13th, 2012
10:11 am

Mark Rubio or Paul Ryan for GOP VP. Does Joe Biden have enough brain power to even possibly debate either of these guys?

Adam

April 13th, 2012
10:53 am

Thulsa: Here is a direct argument made by one of the Occupy Protesters, on a news show no less: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udfYr-UuB8Y

Adam

April 13th, 2012
11:01 am

godless, Fred: There is a difference between our cro-magnon sensibilities, which adds an extra layer of knowing what happens if we are simply reactionary, in a long term sense, perhaps beyond our own memory, and that of an ape tribe. Frankly, ape and monkey tribes did not create entire civilizations through collective effort like we humans did.

But the point is we did that through collective effort, and our collective effort also had a collective sense of what would help promote that collective effort. Part of that was basically deciding not to kill other people within your group, whether you define that in tribal terms, or in larger tribal terms such as city/state/country/world. We decided at the very beginning, collectively, that killing within our own tribe or stealing within our own tribe, all other things equal, was wrong. There are seeming exceptions when it comes to hierarchy, but in fact those exceptions are not actually exceptions but related to basic give and take sets of rules, or the perception that there’s some give and take. In other words, kings may assert divine right, but that creates a tribal separation between the “ruler” and his “people,” if that makes sense.

Difference

April 15th, 2012
2:35 pm

Pretty sure he wants to leave it to the States.