Why Paul Ryan’s budget would explode the deficit
U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan, chairman of the House Budget Committee, promises that his proposed budget will free America “from the crushing burden of debt now threatening its future.”
It would do no such thing. To the contrary, the Tax Policy Center says that major tax cuts included in the Ryan budget would reduce federal revenue by $418 billion in 2015 alone; by 2019, revenue losses would exceed half a trillion dollars each and every year. That will make the deficit worse, not better.
Ryan disputes such analysis, claiming that he will make up that lost revenue by eliminating various tax credits, deductions and exclusions. However, he refuses to specify what those credits might be and instead asks that we trust him on it. The check’s in the mail, in other words.
Last week, the Congressional Research Service took a look at the 20 tax credits, exclusions and deductions that have the biggest impact on tax revenue. Together, they account for 90 percent of the revenue lost through tax deductions in the code.
Here they are:
No, which of these will Ryan eliminate to make up for a half-trillion dollars a year in lost revenue, most of it in tax breaks for the rich? Let’s work through the list, starting from the top:
Is he going to eliminate the tax deduction that encourages employers to provide health insurance to their employees?
No, he is not. If he did, hundreds of millions of Americans might lose their employer-based insurance. No Congress will pass such legislation; no president would sign it.
Is he going to eliminate the deduction that employers take for providing pensions to their employees? No, he is not, for the same reasons outlined above.
Is he going to eliminate the mortgage deduction, the single most important deduction to the American middle class? Riiigggghht. Dig a grave for the housing and real estate industries if you do, and dig another for the careers of all the politicians who voted for it.
Is he going to start taxing Medicare benefits as income to its recipients? Uh, no. He’s not. He is not going to make an elderly couple pay income taxes on the $200,000 in health care they got last year. And is he going to raise the rate on capital gains and treat it as earned income?
I won’t even bother to answer that one.
As analysts for the Congressional Research Service drily concluded, “Given the barriers to eliminating or reducing most tax expenditures, it may prove difficult to gain more than $100 billion to $150 billion in additional tax revenues through base broadening.”
And if you were to make all of the changes that might be feasible, the CRS estimates, you could finance “about a one or two percentage point reduction for each bracket.”
Just as a reminder, Ryan proposes a 10-percentage-point deduction for the wealthiest of Americans.
At some point, we do need to seriously address our nation’s financial situation. That point will clearly have to come after the election. But in the meantime, spare us the histrionics. You cannot claim to be serious about the deficit while in the same breath proposing multi-trillion reductions in government revenue.
Politicians who pretend otherwise are playing the American voter for a fool.
– Jay Bookman
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284 comments Add your comment
Erwin's cat
March 30th, 2012
1:27 pm
“Come Sunday we’ll have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. Expect more jobs to be shipped overseas.”
At least somebody noticed
Whatever
March 30th, 2012
1:27 pm
Doggone,
As far as not having the votes….for 2 years the Dems controlled the Presidency, the House and the Senate. They had the votes. They didn’t have the desire. Instead they spend all of their political capital on Obamacare and not balancing the budget.
Defense
March 30th, 2012
1:28 pm
Take a little bit of all of those and the $500B is closed very easily.
Jay is a speculator. And we all know how everyone hates speculators……
Don't Forget
March 30th, 2012
1:30 pm
Whatever
Balance the budget and raise revenue to pay off the debt. Neither side has the guts.
Actually Obama offered 3 trillion in spending reductions in exchange for 1 trillion in revenue increases during the debt ceiling fight. After 48 hours on the table, Cantor and the tea party killed the deal and our debt rating was downgraded but………… whatever.
Mick
March 30th, 2012
1:31 pm
doomy with his pink slippers caressing liberal throats
**What he is blamed for is presiding over the weakest, most anemic recovery from a recession since the great depression. Typically the steeper and the worse the recession the greater the upside for economic growth and recovery post recession.**
You sir are certifiable and off your rocker…the mess obama inherited or rather whomever inherited would take at least as long to undo as it did to happen. How can housing recover when millions are underwater? How can housing recover when people took lines of credit and splurged but now have zero discretionary income? How can new construction recover when there is a surplus of inventory? For god’s sake man get a grip and seek counseling – immediately!! Stop blaming obama for everything plus that unsightly zit on your nose….wake up…
JamVet
March 30th, 2012
1:31 pm
Come Sunday we’ll have the highest corporate tax rate in the world.
Riiiight.
Poor corporations.
We individuals need to buckle down and pick up more of the tab for them.
Corporate tax contributions as a percent of the overall federal revenue stream have been declining for fifty years and now stand at 7.4% despite massive record profits.
Corporate Taxes as a Percentage of Federal Revenue
1955 . . . 27.3%
2010 . . . 8.9%
Corporate Taxes as a Percentage of GDP
1955 . . . 4.3%
2010 . . . 1.3%
Individual Income/Payrolls as a Percentage of Federal Revenue
1955 . . . 58.0%
2010 . . . 81.5%
Defense
March 30th, 2012
1:32 pm
Would the prosecution please submit the democrat budget into evidence?
stands for decibels
March 30th, 2012
1:32 pm
. Instead they spend all of their political capital on Obamacare and not balancing the budget.
The ACA, or “Obamacare” if you must, was a step toward addressing serious structural problems in our economic future.
Shall we compare this to the previous Administration’s first few years? Starting wars and giving everyone tax breaks and figuring some other sucker could address the holes in the budget that they knew they would cause?
Obama and the democratic majority didn’t live up to my expectations (which were modest to begin with) as to re-charting this country’s course, but they made some progress, and again, relative to what their political opposition has done when given the reins of power, I think it should be lauded, not condemned.
Erwin's cat
March 30th, 2012
1:33 pm
Jam…it’s true, Japan just lowered their rate leaving the USA the highest in corporate tax rates
stands for decibels
March 30th, 2012
1:33 pm
Anyway, got some more producin’ to do. Back later, maybe.
Whatever
March 30th, 2012
1:34 pm
Don’t,
That was after 2 years with a completely Dem house when Obama could get that easily. He didn’t want it then. He was just playing politics with the Repubs.
JamVet
March 30th, 2012
1:34 pm
Would the defense please submit the very first convincing piece of defense for this Ryan budget?
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
March 30th, 2012
1:35 pm
Stop deficit spending…
And what do we do about the payment and interest on the revolving charge card that is the war in Iraq, Medicare Part whatever and the Bush Tax cuts?
We should drastically spending on important social programs to pay off that debt in a hurry now?
We should make people go hungry and homeless because the previous administration cranked up the credit card?
It’s like the new wife complaining to the husband about the child support payments to the first set of kids.
Generation$crewed
March 30th, 2012
1:35 pm
Paul
March 30th, 2012
1:20 pm
Because it is a plan that has no meaning! As defined by Jay, and a point u have not disagreed. Thus if its meaningless and obviously poses no threat of being implemented what is the point of its discussion if not to score political points?
Again Romney said that in an attempt to raise money at a campaign event. So I ask do you judge all politicians on what they say at fundraising events or who donates it to them for what purpose?
Defense
March 30th, 2012
1:36 pm
“Is he going to eliminate the mortgage deduction, the single most important deduction to the American middle class? Riiigggghht. Dig a grave for the housing and real estate industries if you do, and dig another for the careers of all the politicians who voted for it.”
Many countries that don’t have a mortgage interest deduction have healthy housing markets.
Whatever
March 30th, 2012
1:36 pm
Stands,
You won’t find me defending Bush. I don’t think he did a good job at all. Obama entered office with all kinds of political capital to spend and wasted almost all of it fighting for things that should have been down the list.
With the headiness with which he entered office and having a completely Dem majority across the board and still no balanced budget tells me what I need to know. He didn’t want a balanced budget then when he could have had it.
Don't Forget
March 30th, 2012
1:36 pm
Whatever
March 30th, 2012
1:27 pm
Doggone,
As far as not having the votes….for 2 years the Dems controlled the Presidency, the House and the Senate. They had the votes. They didn’t have the desire.
Actually, Ted Kennedy died in August of 2009 and was unable to serve several months prior to that. Without a filibuster proof majority they had to at least have some republican cooperation through not using the filibuster but ……….. whatever.
Talking Head
March 30th, 2012
1:37 pm
JamVet,
Higher Corporate US tax rate = less investment here in US, more investment overseas
JamVet
March 30th, 2012
1:37 pm
Erwin, you are smarter than that.
Taking that one stat and using it as the basis for an entire position is ludicrous.
Many of the most profitable US corporations pay MUCH MUCH less that that rate. Hell, more than a few of them pay NOTHING AT ALL. And more than a few of them actually get a check from Uncle Sam.
Also, explain to me how you can justify those damning percentages I posted at 1:31…
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
March 30th, 2012
1:37 pm
Well, seems to me alot of people on here are just being selfish. They want to keep the tax breaks they have and let other people pull the wagon. Me, I’m willing to sacrifice to make sure our grandkids don’t have to pay for all the stuff we’re getting. So here’s my ideas for cuts we can make to get rid of the deficit:
1. Get rid of the mortgage interest deduction. Now it just so happens I don’t have a mortgage. I paid cash for my trailer. But that’s got nothing to do with getting rid of this giveaway.
2. Get rid of Medicaid. If God wanted you to have guvmint-paid health insurance, you would of been born with a little policy in your hand. I don’t get Medicaid, but that’s got nothing to do with getting rid of this welfare.
3. Get rid of WIC and all the other welfare stuff. Let women with kids that ain’t got no Daddys around eat rich and beans. They’re mighty filling. I don’t get welfare and I work for a living, but that’s got nothing to do with it.
4. Get rid of unemployment insurance. We oughtn’t to be paying somebody for not having a job. They need to starve enough to be willing to take any job. Me, I got a job, but that’s got nothing to do with getting rid of this boondoggle.
5. Start taxing employers on the pensions they offer. You ought to be able to save enough to retire on. I won’t get a pension after I get too old to work, but that’s got nothing to do with this big tax break we don’t need.
Anyways, I hope you can see I’m willing to sacrifice for the good of the country. But leave Social Security alone. I got to have a little income when they finally tell me I’m too old to work, but I wouldn’t be opposed to lifting the tax break for SS while I’m still working.
And keep the guvmint’s hands off of my Medicare. I won’t get my health insurance after they push me out the door, and I’ll need something to pay Drs. for looking at my pile-on cyst once in a while.
A little sacrifice can go a long way toward getting rid of this huge deficit. You can see I’m willing to take on a little pain for alot of gain. Why won’t you join me? Oh, and be sure and vote Republican in November. Have a good Friday everybody. I’m hauling and humping and trying to get you
drunksfine folks ready to swap weird music tonight. I hope Bookman will have something by Earl Scruggs. He died this week and it’s only fitting.Brosephus™
March 30th, 2012
1:38 pm
Jam…it’s true, Japan just lowered their rate leaving the USA the highest in corporate tax rates
I know it sounds ugly, but maybe the small business owners need better representation. I doubt there are very few major corporations paying anything remotely near the marginal rate. There’s a difference between having the highest marginal rate versus having the highest effective rate.
Whatever
March 30th, 2012
1:38 pm
Granny,
I never was for the Iraq war and was for ending the Bush tax cuts. I’m not saying I like the Rand budget. I am saying we can’t continue to go into debt. It will be painful but it must stop or our whole economy will be wrecked.
Obama had the clout and the votes his first two years to do something about it. I was hopeful he would. He did not. No amount of complaining about Bush will make Obamas lack of progress when he had the votes look better.
Fred ™
March 30th, 2012
1:39 pm
Mighty Righty
March 30th, 2012
1:24 pm
The last year Bush was president the Administration spent 4.923 trillion dollars. Spending for fiscal 2012 will be 6.282 trillion dollars. Obama has increased annual federal spending by 1.359 trillion dollars. Seems to me a return to the Bush spending levels more than balances Ryans budget. Again, our budget/deficit problems are caused by spending not by taxation.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Do you actually believe that lie? Do you actually expect US to believe that lie? Did you have a straight face when you typed that?
Whatever
March 30th, 2012
1:40 pm
Don’t,
So where did Obama propose balancing the budget that the Republicans then filibustered with Kennedy out? I don’t remember that proposal from the President.
Defense
March 30th, 2012
1:42 pm
“At some point, we do need to seriously address our nation’s financial situation. That point will clearly have to come after the election.”
Please provide evidence that the current president has attempted to fix the deficit in his first term. Otherwise you’re asking us to engage in faith based theories to justify re-electing Obama.
I gotta plane flight to catch. I look forward to answers.
Brosephus™
March 30th, 2012
1:42 pm
Another thing for people to think about with Ryan’s budget proposal. He’s embraced the “cut 10% of federal workers” idea within his plan. Anybody approving of that loses any and all credibility when also claiming anything in relation to border security. If you think the borders are unsecure now, what do you think’s gonna happen with a reduction in officers?
Don't Forget
March 30th, 2012
1:43 pm
Whatever
March 30th, 2012
1:34 pm
Don’t,
That was after 2 years with a completely Dem house when Obama could get that easily. He didn’t want it then. He was just playing politics with the Repubs.
Huh? It was the republicans who pushed the debt ceiling to crisis point and then rejected a compromise that had a 3 to 1 ratio of cuts to tax increases. And you still gotta get it past the senate.
JamVet
March 30th, 2012
1:44 pm
OK, off to send more money up the economic ladder.
Long live the plutocracy.
Back for FNM…
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 30th, 2012
1:45 pm
Brocephus,
True. Employment is a lagging economic indicator. But its still been over 3 years.
“According to trickle down theory, Main Street should see some semblance of getting wet now.”
No. Main street has been getting wet for quite a while if 47% of Americans having been paying federal taxes outside of FICA for several years now.
“You and others can talk about a weak recovery all you want, but if you’re basing it on our last few recoveries, then I’d rather have what we see now. Instead of having a bubble inflate things only to cause issues later on, I’d rather have a recovery built on something solid for a change. We haven’t had that in over 30 years.”
I’m not sure of what you speak because economic history disagrees with you. Since the Reagan revolution and prosperity beginning in 82 we had almost 20 years of uninterruped economic growth. The Bush recession of 91 was one of the lightest on record and occurred because of the threat of a looming war with Iraq. That recession if I remember correctly consisted of one negative qtr of 1% negative growth and one flat qtr. Otherwise economic growth was sustained right up until the dot.com bust. To say we haven’t had sustained economic growth without a huge bubble bursting is to ignore economic history.
The housing bubble is a unique event in American history. The dot.com bubble bursting was not that severe and is part of the boom-bust cycle but obviously much less severe. Otherwise growth was pretty steady without huge speculative bubbles for almost 20 years.
Mighty Righty
March 30th, 2012
1:46 pm
Fred, usgovernmentspending.com
Whatever
March 30th, 2012
1:46 pm
Don’t,
I understand it was the Rep. pushing that to a crisis point. My point is that in the first two years Obama proposed no cuts of the sort. He waited until a crisis to bring out that proposal which just smells of politics on his side of the isle.
I’m not defending either. I just think Obama’s supporters need to face the facts that overall he has done nothing to deal with the debt and he had a chance in the beginning to do so. Didn’t even try when he had the best shot at it. Therefore, my conclusion is that it wasn’t very important to him.
HDB
March 30th, 2012
1:48 pm
Mr Right
March 30th, 2012
12:57 pm
“Jay, lets see your thoughts on Obama’s open mic blunder! Oh wait, he is a Dem so it will not happen here!”
Obama isn’t as bad as Rick Santorum……I was always taught, the first thoughts are your REAL thoughts…..
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03/30/rick-santorum-stops-himself-from-calling-president-obama-a-nr-video/
Don't Forget
March 30th, 2012
1:50 pm
Brosephus™
March 30th, 2012
1:42 pm
Another thing for people to think about with Ryan’s budget proposal. He’s embraced the “cut 10% of federal workers” idea within his plan. Anybody approving of that loses any and all credibility when also claiming anything in relation to border security. If you think the borders are unsecure now, what do you think’s gonna happen with a reduction in officers?
Self deportation of course! At least that’s what Mitt Romney says. Of course you may need deportation vouchers for a while.
Brosephus™
March 30th, 2012
1:52 pm
Doom: Employment is a lagging economic indicator. But its still been over 3 years.
And we have not had a serious recession like that since the 1930’s either. When you don’t have job structure to build on, it takes longer to recover. Funny that all countries had economic problems all at the same time, yet the people with manufacturing bases have seemed to recover and start to flourish. Kind of hard to consume your way out of a recession, huh?
All bubbles don’t follow the same pattern. That prosperity under Reagan and afterwards is not all it’s cracked up to be. Some people might have seen prosperity, but my neck of the woods saw pain. When plants are closed and jobs outsourced to other countries, it’s quite hard to call that prosperity. You can sell that textbook stuff to somebody else, but I lived through that “prosperity”, and a fairy tale, it was not!
The dot.com bubble bursting was not that severe
Remember that you said that the next time you or anybody else whines about how bad of a situation Bush was dealt from Clinton.
Don't Forget
March 30th, 2012
1:54 pm
Whatever,
The R’s walked away from a 4 TRILLION dollar deal that Obama offered them! But all you can focus on is Obama. That’s absurd. The ball was SQUARELY in the republican’s court and they whiffed.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
March 30th, 2012
1:54 pm
Whatever
You nearly sound sensible and reasonable and then you go to that old Obama had control for two years falsehood.
Keep trying to find the truth.
Don't Forget
March 30th, 2012
1:56 pm
Another thing, whatever. When the R’s walked away from that deal, you didn’t see any politics in it on their side? Apparently not.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
March 30th, 2012
1:57 pm
Whatever
” understand it was the Rep. pushing that to a crisis point. My point is that in the first two years Obama proposed no cuts of the sort. He waited until a crisis to bring out that proposal which just smells of politics on his side of the isle.”
If you are suggesting big time austerity was called for to deal with near depression I don’t think you are talking sense.
He didn’t have to wait for a crisis – we gifted him with it on inauguration day.
timbo
March 30th, 2012
1:58 pm
While you guys continue to pile on Paul Ryan, I just couldn’t help but post this. Not everyone see’s the world through the liberals rose-colored glasses;
The past seven brutal days will go down as one of the worst weeks in history for a sitting president. It certainly has been, without any doubt, the worst week yet for President Obama.
Somehow, Mr. Obama managed to embarrass himself abroad, humiliate himself here at home, see his credentials for being elected so severely undermined that it raises startling questions about whether he should have been elected in the first place — let alone be re-elected later this year.
Read more of Charles Hurt’s analysis here. It gets better.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/mar/29/hurt-was-week-was-obama-style/#contentShared-tab
Just say No to Big Government
March 30th, 2012
2:00 pm
Jay, As usual your wrong and nothing but a mouthpiece for the perverted liars of the DNC. Obama and his tax and spend scam is what’s destroying the Nation. And media people like you are guilty as they are for spreading their agenda. Shame on you Jay. Are you OWNED by George Soros like your pal CT?
Fred ™
March 30th, 2012
2:04 pm
Mighty Righty
March 30th, 2012
1:46 pm
Fred, usgovernmentspending.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And?
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 30th, 2012
2:05 pm
“You sir are certifiable and off your rocker…the mess obama inherited or rather whomever inherited would take at least as long to undo as it did to happen.”
No sir. Reagan inherited double digit inflation and interest rates- stagflation, and high unemployment. Granny unwittingly posted a politifact article without even reading it to bolster the idea that O had it worse than Reagan. He did not according to that article. According to that article Reagan inherited a much worse recession.
“How can housing recover when millions are underwater?”
My 401k was down over 50%. It was on paper. Did that stop me from my everyday economic activity? Nope.
“How can housing recover when people took lines of credit and splurged but now have zero discretionary income?”
So the economic stupidity of some people means that the overall economy is in the pooper? There will always be stupid people making stupid decisions Mick. That’s factored into the overall exchange of goods and services in any economy.
“How can new construction recover when there is a surplus of inventory?”
Finally. You actually have one decent argument. It won’t. Not any time soon probably. But that’s just one sector of an economy that has many sectors sir. Perhaps you didn’t know that.
“For god’s sake man get a grip and seek counseling – immediately!!”
Mick, with all due respect you’re just regurgitating O talking points with zero critical analysis on your part. You need to seriously brush up on some basic economics lessons and especially on your critical thinking skills. And put the O kool-aide down for once Mick.
Paul
March 30th, 2012
2:05 pm
Generation
“Because it is a plan that has no meaning! As defined by Jay, and a point u have not disagreed. Thus if its meaningless and obviously poses no threat of being implemented what is the point of its discussion if not to score political points?”
That’s like saying the principles contained in Christ’s teachings are meaningless because people don’t live them.
The budget is a statement of //intent//. It’s a philosophy. It ‘does not matter’ if the rate on top earners declines by a third. What’s important is that’s what the party has set as a goal – something, if they cold do all they wanted, it’s something we should have.
Does it matter in the sense it will be 100% enacted?
No.
Does it matter in the sense it tells us what would be if Republicans were able to turn intent into action?
Absolutely.
JohnnyReb
March 30th, 2012
2:06 pm
Fred ™
March 30th, 2012
1:23 pm
@Johnny Reb: As stated below, you are in the 1% (which as we both know isn’t exactly the same as being a Paris Hitlon or Koch Brother lol). Just out of curiosity what percentage of your income did you pay in taxes for 2011? Not how much, but a percentage if you will. Also, at 65 your are still making over $347,000 a year in income? Sweet.
With your house paid off and no kids in school that money goes a long way. I hope you are really enjoying it. I know what a blessing it will be when my mortgage is paid off (damn thing WOULD have been 5 years ago but “Honey” decided we needed to move ITP) and we didn’t spend so much on our child’s education. Hell the school bill alone would buy us a new (decent) car every year or a high end luxury model every three years lol.
__________________________
Hello Fred – We don’t have our 2011 taxes, the accountants are still working it, but I can use 2010. You are on the money with the Paris Hilton comment, so first a clarifier. We have three small businesses: an S-Corp, then two LLC’s where the S-Corp is the sole member. That means profits from the three are reported on our personal return even though we never have all of it in personal accounts due to reinvesting in inventory, etc. And, just in case you are not familiar with retail, you can’t write off inventory until you sell it or give it away. If you take profits to grow the inventory you may or may not see a return on it but you pay the income tax plus the property tax.
In 2010, we paid 28.2% of adjusted gross income in federal income tax. Yes, we are blessed to be in this position. But I can tell you the resentment of paying high income taxes has not changed for us. We resent today just as much as when we were paying tax on a 100K. Anyone who says “if I made that kind of money, I would not complain.” They are wrong. Yes they would.
John Birch
March 30th, 2012
2:07 pm
Jamvet and all – Corporations may or may not be people but they certainly don’t pay taxes. Just think of the cigarette manufacturers and the fines/settlements they paid as a sort of tax. The cost of a pack of cigarettes went from about $2 to $5-7 depending on the state. Corporations will pass all cost increases including tax increases on to the consumer, they have to or they go out of business.
So if you raise their taxes they raise their prices and then can’t compete against foreign companies who have lower taxes/costs and cappy all you wacko libs that want to punish the big, bad corporations will wind up doing is hurting America.
HIPPOCRIT
March 30th, 2012
2:07 pm
why don’t we just retain the obama budgets of $1 trillion deficits………………. that makes much more sense
Doggone/GA
March 30th, 2012
2:08 pm
“Corporations may or may not be people but they certainly don’t pay taxes”
Proof reading is fundamental!
Matti the Resistance Fighter in the War on Women
March 30th, 2012
2:08 pm
Thulsa Doom with the creepy fantasies,
I told you before: that little thing is not a “boot.” Now stop waving it around people’s throats, you pervert!
Stonethrower
March 30th, 2012
2:09 pm
Doesn’t matter what congress does and they will continue to do so while mostly the poor and the middle class spend millions (TODAY) for the chance to win a multi-million dollar lottery. Nero fiddled while Rome burned!
Don't Forget
March 30th, 2012
2:13 pm
Scalia during the arguments over ACA before the court
That would mean that if we struck down nothing in this legislation but the — what you call the corn husker kickback, okay, we find that to violate the constitutional proscription of venality, okay?
Trouble is, the cornhusker kickback was removed from the ACA. (Shamefully it was reintroduced in another piece of legislation) But Scalia didn’t even know this! Here he is talking about something that isn’t even in the bill! He should be very embarassed over this huge gaffe. Imagine if they do something like that in their final opinion. This court would be the laughingstock of the world.
Paul
March 30th, 2012
2:13 pm
timbo
If the items Mr. Hurt ticked off are ‘one of the first weeks in history for a sitting president’ then we are doomed as a nation.
The Supreme Court took up a case dealing with his legislation?
Horror!
The president comments on the death of a citizen?
Oh no!!!!!
Congress unites in their political efforts to get reelected?
The Republic is falling!!!!!
But seriously, timbo, thanks so much for reassuring us that constitutes the worst of what can happen.
War with Iran, closing of the Strait of Hormuz, an A-bomb smuggled in by terrorists, a pandemic…. that stuff all pales in comparison to those truly horrific events you outlined.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
March 30th, 2012
2:14 pm
Actually Doom
Granny posted this:
“Ronald Reagan faced an even worse recession” than the current one.
“http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/nov/17/sarah-palin/palin-claims-reagan-faced-worse-recession-obama/
That ends with this paragraph
“So back to Palin’s claim that Reagan’s recession was more severe. The barometers we examined aren’t necessarily equal measurements of the magnitude, but collectively they paint a picture that the current recession — so far — is worse than the one under Reagan. Even if we had decided to include inflation as a factor, the measurements would still indicate the current recession is worse. So we find Palin’s claim to be False.”
Thulsa
I got your “unwittingly” right here.
HIPPOCRIT
March 30th, 2012
2:21 pm
GRANNY
you must alzheimers if you dont remember how bad it was late 70’s and early 80’s…………. and you are certainly ignorant if you think low inflation low interest rates are worse than high ones
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 30th, 2012
2:22 pm
“And we have not had a serious recession like that since the 1930’s either.’
And you would be wrong on that point. Granny posted a politifact article that proves it. The article considered several measures as to who had a tougher recession- Obama or Reagan. And if you actually read the article you would see that Reagan had a substantially worse recession to deal with than Obama. What’s more is that it didn’t stop Reagan from creating over 16 million new jobs overall and a staggering 21 million jobs beginning from the low point of the 81-82 recession. What’s Obama’s excuse?
“All bubbles don’t follow the same pattern. That prosperity under Reagan and afterwards is not all it’s cracked up to be.”
You have your anecdotal opinion that may include bias. I have facts including 21 million new jobs created from the bottom of the recession. Those are FACTS.
“Some people might have seen prosperity, but my neck of the woods saw pain.”
There is success and pain in every boom or bust economy. Again that is your anecdotal opinion. I just deal in facts.
“When plants are closed and jobs outsourced to other countries, it’s quite hard to call that prosperity. You can sell that textbook stuff to somebody else, but I lived through that “prosperity”, and a fairy tale, it was not!”
So those 21 million new jobs are just a fairy tale? The bureau of labor statistics disagrees with you sir. As for outsourcing that’s been going on forever and through D and R administrations. If someone can produce a product substantially cheaper in a country like China that has a huge absolute advantage in terms of labor costs than so be it. You can vote with your wallet and not buy an I-phone for $200 or whatever it costs that was made in China. Jobs may be lost but overall the consumer is dramatically better off. But I am kinda interested. If we were shuttering so many jobs under Reagan and closing so many plants then where or where did those 21 million jobs come from? Please enlighten me because the facts are in disagreement with one man’s anecdotal experience.
“The dot.com bubble bursting was not that severe
Remember that you said that the next time you or anybody else whines about how bad of a situation Bush was dealt from Clinton.”
In stock market and 401k portolio losses the .com bust was in fact severe. But I’m talking in terms of quarterly economic performance. Sure. There was a downturn and a shakeout and recession at the tail end of the Clinton presidency. But overall things slowly turned around under W. He didn’t spend all his time whining about the .com bust and blaming his predecessor. For all his faults at least W accepted responsibility and moved forward as opposed to playing the blame game for 8 years as this weak ass excuse of a president intends to do.
Generation$crewed
March 30th, 2012
2:23 pm
Paul
March 30th, 2012
2:05 pm
That would makes sense if the democrats had done everything they claimed as a philosophy before the ‘08 election cycle. Remember how dumb all the people sounde panicing during that election and continuing to do so after the election?
Well……..
This plan or nothing close to this plan will ever be put in place regardless of the ‘12 elections. It will take bi-partisan efforts to get us out of this and on the correct path. But by making every action and attempting to portray it as a blueprint for a what if scenerio has led to the grid lock we see now.
Whatever
March 30th, 2012
2:25 pm
Don’t and Granny,
I do blame the Reps. for walking away from the deal. I also blame Obama for not using his political capital while he could.
BTW, what do you blame Obama for? What has he done wrong in your eyes when it comes to the debt?
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
March 30th, 2012
2:27 pm
HIPPOCRIT
POLITIFACT
Mr. Silly Pants.
Seems you are the creature with a brain disorder.
And too cowardly to use your normal name….
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
March 30th, 2012
2:31 pm
Whatever
My disagreements with the administraion revolve around no DOJ investigations into the previous administration, continuation
of certain Bush policies re: surveilance and the Afghan war.
He used his political capital, you just wanted him to do it for that which judged more important.
In my judgement he used it quite well.
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 30th, 2012
2:31 pm
Granny Godzilla,
Unlike you I went through and actually read the article. Couple of points to remember for you. First of all politifact is in and of itself a product of the AJC which is a liberal newspaper. So obviously its opinion is in and of itself biased to begin with.
Secondly and more importantly the politifact article omits one glaring fact that even an idiot can see through. The fact of the matter is that the W recession officially ended 2 months into Obama’s term. So realistically he didn’t even inherit much of a recession. And Jay himself presented a jobs graph months back from the bureau of labor statistics showing that jobs losses from the W recession completely bottomed out in the month Obama came into office. From there the only way to go was up.
In regards to the Reagan situation the Fed induced a recession that lasted from 1981-82. He had to deal with a recession that was actually triggered and was in full swing his first 2 years in office contrasted with one that ended a couple of months into Obama’s term.
The fact that your mind is unable or unwillingly to distinguish between the timing of these 2 recessions does not surprise me in the least.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
March 30th, 2012
2:32 pm
Doom
““So back to Palin’s claim that Reagan’s recession was more severe. The barometers we examined aren’t necessarily equal measurements of the magnitude, but collectively they paint a picture that the current recession — so far — is worse than the one under Reagan. Even if we had decided to include inflation as a factor, the measurements would still indicate the current recession is worse. So we find Palin’s claim to be False.”
Proves your point in your dreams.
My Party has ALL the answers. Your party is full of poopyheads! (formerly That Black Guy)
March 30th, 2012
2:34 pm
Generation$crewed
March 30th, 2012
12:38 pm
Jay
March 30th, 2012
12:12 pm
So what ur saying is u wrote this entire piece about what you say is meaningless, and that doesn’t matter if passed?
______________________________________________________________________________
G$, that’s what I came away with after reading that Jay’s response.
HIPPOCRIT
March 30th, 2012
2:35 pm
so you think financing a house at 3.5% with inflation below 4% is far worse than financing a house at 10%+ and inflation at 10%+
you prove my point
and if politifact said that obama balanced the budget but in his first term you would believe that wouldn’t you
mark twain once said……..i used to not read newspapers and i was uninformed……. then i started reading the newspapers so now i am MISINFORMED…….
it applies to media today
Oscar
March 30th, 2012
2:35 pm
se
March 30th, 2012
1:36 pm
“Is he going to eliminate the mortgage deduction, the single most important deduction to the American middle class? Riiigggghht. Dig a grave for the housing and real estate industries if you do, and dig another for the careers of all the politicians who voted for it.”
Many countries that don’t have a mortgage interest deduction have healthy housing markets.
_____
Exactly right. Not only do they have healthy housing markets, studies show their per cent of home ownership is just as high as ours. Mortage interestdeduction was one of the factors that contributed to the housing bubble. It’s a regressive deduction benefits people of upper incomes more and should be abolished.
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
March 30th, 2012
2:35 pm
Doom
“Unlike you I went through and actually read the article. Couple of points to remember for you. First of all politifact is in and of itself a product of the AJC ”
Wanna try that again.
Hint Tampa.
wanna try that when did the recession end again too….
Yo do so struggle with facts or is it the truth?
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
March 30th, 2012
2:36 pm
Bless your sad little hearts…..
Granny Godzilla - Union Thugette
March 30th, 2012
2:37 pm
HIPPOCRIT
I believe very little without research
I do believe you are a coward hiding behind a false name.
Have a delightful evening in la la land.
St Simons - we're on Island time
March 30th, 2012
2:38 pm
See, this is what happens when you cut education.
First, they apparently quit teaching what “Revenues” are
Now, they’ve quit teaching “lagging indicators”
De-fund it some more – maybe they’ll quit teaching “hey, it’ll trickle down”
But don’t lose this one –
“No one ever cut their way to Prosperiteh” – Ronald Reagan
My Party has ALL the answers. Your party is full of poopyheads! (formerly That Black Guy)
March 30th, 2012
2:39 pm
Adam
March 30th, 2012
12:42 pm
Paul: I do realize once you hear something that sounds really neat and sparkly it’s difficult to let go, but can you give us just one cite from Pres Obama’s presidency where he’s spoken of ‘equality of results’?
(Note: ‘equality of results’ may sound a lot like ‘equality of opportunity’ but one little word does make a pretty big difference).
I’m laying down $100 that no one even attempts to answer this without a deflection or goal post movement.
____________________________________________________________________________
I cannot give you a cite because Obama has never said it.
Pay up Adam (Or do you want to be accused of not being a man of your word?)
My Party has ALL the answers. Your party is full of poopyheads! (formerly That Black Guy)
March 30th, 2012
2:41 pm
Paul
March 30th, 2012
12:42 pm
Generation$crewed
As numerous op-ed columnists and political observers have pointed out, Ryan’s proposal will become a key factor in defining the differences between Pres Romney and Gov Romney, so yes, it is important.
_____________________________________________________________________________
So, let me understand. Gov Romney created, submitted and voted on Ryans budget?
How does Romney have ownership of Ryans budget?
HIPPOCRIT
March 30th, 2012
2:43 pm
Granny Godzilla – Union Thugette
you said:
I do believe you are a coward hiding behind a false name.
what is sad is you don’t get the hippocritcal irony of your statement
and it proves my belief that when a liberal gets involved in an intellectual discussion in which they cannot use facts the resort to using slurs and deflection to diffuse the obviousness of their ignorance
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 30th, 2012
2:46 pm
granny godzilla,
Yep. Tampa bay times not the AJC. Easy to get my liberal papers mixed up. The point remains though. It is an unabashedly liberal newspaper. When the paper which was formerly the st. petersburg times touts itself as the more liberal voice of the tampa-st pete area I tend to take them at their word. So apparently does wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:St._Petersburg_Times
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 30th, 2012
2:57 pm
Granny Godzilla,
I’ve seen different stats as to when the 2007 recession ended and I’ve seen march or april. If you google it you will find June in many cases and some people will even say August of 09. For the sake of argument lets say June of 09 to suit your argument since i like to give you all the help you need. That still means the recession ended a mere 6 months into his presidency and as we know by Jay’s bls graph jobs losses bottomed in January as he was coming into office.
Reagan’s recession began in July of 81 and didn’t end until November of 82. The point remains.
Please explain to me how inheriting a recession that ended 6 months into your term is worse than inheriting a recession that begins 7 months into your term and doesn’t end until nearly 2 years into your first term?
Adam
March 30th, 2012
3:03 pm
That Black Guy: Nice try but you already know I meant having a cite, not having no cite. But I give you honor credit for the admission.
Brosephus™
March 30th, 2012
3:48 pm
So those 21 million new jobs are just a fairy tale? The bureau of labor statistics disagrees with you sir.
When you look at the wage stagnation since Carter, seems like those 21 million jobs didn’t have much of an impact on the economy. When you lose jobs and replace them with lower wage jobs, is that actually a positive impact? If you’re looking at job totals only, what would your gripe about Obama be if he ended up creating 12 million minimum wage jobs to replace the 8 million that were lost? I guess, then it would turn to the wages the jobs paid. I’ve noticed that you never, ever bring up the type of jobs Reagan created, only the number. When you lose high wage jobs and replace them with lower wage jobs, that’s nothing to brag about.
JamVet
March 30th, 2012
3:59 pm
Birch, that analysis simply doesn’t hold up given that corproate tax rates were MUCH higher on American businesses in the 1940s, 50s and 60s. And their P&L statements were booming.
This trickle down nonsense is just that.
BIG business does not like socialism. Until it helps them and then they are all for it.
They need to stand on their own and quit mooching off of us individuals…
kayaker 71
March 30th, 2012
4:11 pm
Today we surpassed Japan as the country having the highest corporate tax rate. Every other country with a rate that was close to ours at 35% has lowered it to stimulate growth. Well…… at least Bozo is first in something.
JamVet
March 30th, 2012
4:15 pm
71, pure piffle and trickle down nuttiness…
Joe Hussein Mama
March 30th, 2012
4:27 pm
J. Birch — “Corporations will pass all cost increases including tax increases on to the consumer, they have to or they go out of business.”
Really?
Corporations that are experiencing record profits couldn’t possibly ABSORB some of that increased taxation themselves, reduce their profits and/or dividends and hold the line on consumer prices?
Just say No to Big Government
March 30th, 2012
4:42 pm
people like you are the down fall of america..samthing happen in the 60’s..but always find way to point finger to someone else..disgusting
Jorgen Madsen
March 30th, 2012
4:44 pm
Mr. Ryan – to your knowledge does it spell “stupid” on the back of every average working person in this country. No average person in this Nation with your supposedly level of education could put together such budget as the one you have presented here. Your budget totally ignores the working population of USA and favors only the rich and people with more money than they will know to do with. May I suggest an investment in a new calculator.
Bullgadash.Com » Al Qaeda Vs. Republicans
March 30th, 2012
6:50 pm
[...] Why Paul Ryan’s budget would explode the deficit [...]
Proud to be me
March 31st, 2012
9:19 pm
Let me see . . how do we want it . . Ryan’s cuts . . or Democrats increased spending (that this country can’t afford!!!) . . . . . . .
getalife . . . . what about Obama’s friend GE . . that pays NO taxes!!!!
Mitt Romney = Working families paying more so millionaires can pay less
April 4th, 2012
5:28 pm
[...] GOP budget would actually make the debt worse by providing $3 trillion in corporate and millionaire tax giveaways, with an average of $150K for [...]
The Republican budget puts America on a Path to Poverty.
April 5th, 2012
6:33 pm
[...] GOP budget would actually make the debt worse by providing $3 trillion in corporate and millionaire tax giveaways, with an average of $150K for [...]