If ObamaCare dies, what then?

Paul Ryan’s plan is nothing more than Obamacare….the problem has always been that a Democrat took a Republican idea and went forward with it…..

All the GOP has ever wanted to do is to sabotage Obama rather than work with the man….

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If I am not able to keep my college kids on my insurance, this will be devastating for us.

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If ObamaCare dies, what then?

The GOP has pushed this country towards a single payer system. There’s no other way to guarantee coverage for pre-existing conditions and keep people from being dropped. I think there were some who were so focused on the short term idea of repealing the Democratic Party plan that they didn’t look forward enough to see what the true implications would be. Do you think that people who were unable to get insurance before and have it now are going to be willing to give it up without a fight?

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….and the WAR continues….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kH_EZF0XqM&ob=av2e

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“So again, what happens if the mandate disappears?”

Go back to the drawing board and come up with something that doesn’t force Americans to buy a private product.

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If ObamaCare dies, what then?
.
Nothing.
The relentless assault by government to control your life will continue.
And you Republocrats will beg for it.
.
Thank God for Ron Paul.
He ignited a fire that will NOT be extinguished.
.
We own ourselves.
.
Washington……..bugger off.

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It’s left back to the states where it belongs, and if you do not like what your state is doing, then move.

That’s your response for the Party Of No? Simply posting “Obama 2012!!!!” would have saved you some typing.

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Medicare for all. It’s what’s for dinner!

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Once it is struck down, liberals will kick and scream and pitch fits. Saying things like its our right to force somebody to do something for us for free!

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We couldn’t even get a public option. What we are debating right now is a boon for capitalism, and the Republicans are still knocking it down (their original idea, Romney’s plan) only because of partisan hatred for Obama and the Dems. Now the SCOTUS will likely knock it down, forcing us closer to single payer. It’s amazing how things work out for good in the end

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If the party of no means a party that follows the US Constitution, then what’s your beef?

And if you want to adopt the philosophy that we are all responsible for the expenses of our neighbors, campaign on that and see how far you get.

There either a limit on government or their isn’t.

The party of yes continues to say there is no limit.

There will be limits.

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While the liberals kick and scream for healthcare, the Rethugs are kicking and screaming about gay marriage and repealing abortion. Personally, I’ll side with the group concerned about taking care of people versus the group that wants to tell people how to live their lives.

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Go back to the drawing board and come up with something that doesn’t force Americans to buy a private product.

And 2 years isn’t enough time to have something in place already? It’s not like conservatives have not known that the Supreme Court would eventually make a ruling in this case. Talk about excuses for the unprepared…. And some people want them to run this country again…

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(ir)Rational

Not necessarily. We don’t know how many people would have been dropped that can’t be dropped now. I know that all parts of the ACA have not kicked in, but there are more people with insurance now than there would be without those provisions.

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If the party of no means a party that follows the US Constitution, then what’s your beef?

Jay really needs to dust off the fainting couch for you.

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Friends, we are at the mercy of the insurance companies. They basically charge you what they want. There will never be a “national health” single payer system in the U.S. because the insurance companies have bought and paid for your government just like so many other powerful interest groups. (See my next post.) No, there’s too much money to be made. So, if you’re self-employed or not covered at work and you’re over 50, good luck!

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Vouchers and block grants!

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“If ObamaCare dies, what then?”

The Supreme Court will have done its job and overturned yet another unconstitutional power grab by you libbies.

“Just another day in paradise”, as the song goes.

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Oh my…What are we going to do if Obamacare dies?

What did we do without it before Obama? We paid for the care we received…or in the case of liberals..had someone else pay for the care we received. Or went without.

We went without cable TV or nail salons to pay for insurance if need be.

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We paid for the care we received…or in the case of liberals..had someone else pay for the care we received. Or went without.

Some people really are “low information” people.

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Aquagirl, I could write pages and pages of information that shows just how moronic these Busbot’s claims about the GOP respecting the United States Constitution really are.

Maybe Common Sense can contact the American Bar Association (which is just loaded with Republican lawyers) and ask them why they – three times (!) – had to call GWB and his cabal on the carpet for treating that thing like their play toy…

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So it boils down to protecting insurance company magnates versus solving the problem of spending twice per capita what other countries pay for health care. It’s keeping the insurance companies happy instead of helping our own economy via a healthy workforce.

We are so f___ed up here.

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but it takes intellectual honesty with both parties are not using

its up the the defacto third party to spearhead it

independent minded non partisans

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We are so f___ed up here.

True that. That we even needed a law to force insurance companies to cover non-existent “pre-existing” conditions and to not violate their own contracts on minor technicalities tells us how screwed up things were.

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It’s almost evil how the dumbed down populace has been brainwashed to think that propping up the very wealthy = “protecting liberties.”

Clever, and evil.

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(ir)Rational

I haven’t researched that much into the ACA. The only thing that would or could possibly affect me would be the dropped coverage. I’m pretty healthy now, but I work in a hazardous occupation. I don’t have any personal stories about people who are uninsurable. I’m also one that will have coverage at all times because of my job. I actually have all kinds of coverage because of that.

On a personal note, if I could add y’all to my coverage, I’d do so in a heartbeat. I don’t think anybody in this country should not be able to get coverage. I think our biggest error was in moving from a non-profit to a for-profit model for health care.

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““So again, what happens if the mandate disappears?”

Then we have a GREAT Supreme Court prededent ruling to keep the federal government at bay from mandating more of our liberties away !!!”

This is true. This case really isn’t about healthcare at all, it’s about the government having the authority to mandatae that a citizen purchase a product from a privaate business. If this law is accepted as is, and not overturned, the flood gates would open on what the government could mandate us to do.

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We let the 40 million without health care mostly women and kids continue to suffer and we continue to wave the flag like we really care about America and the people in it untill another 911 attack.

We continue to have people like Mitt, Rick, Newt who have good health insurance tell the poor uneducated whites in the tea party how bad the gov is and they dont need the gov help with insurance, while there kids are living longer and the poor are dying quicker.

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That we even needed a law to force insurance companies to cover non-existent “pre-existing” conditions

And that we need a law to tell insurance companies you can’t just drop someone who has been paying premiums all along. How effed up is that?

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Health insurance or gas…………hmmmmmmm?

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a party that follows the US Constitution

(c) 1789-2012, Every Doofus Who’s Ever Been Lacking An Actual Point, Ltd. All rights reserved.

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This case really isn’t about healthcare at all, it’s about the government having the authority to mandatae that a citizen purchase a product from a privaate business.

Then it’s a slam dunk to be kept in place, because the government’s been doing that for years with auto insurance and business license certification renewal (you gotta take tests administered by private businesses).

Don’t thank me now. Thank me later

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jay

Jay

didn’t you just get orgasmic when individual consumers forced large corporations to pull ads from Limbaugh when they organized as one group

the mind is a terrible thing to waste

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USMC – nice veiled racist rant.

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“Under your theory, I acting as a single consumer without access to those experts, etc., will have more power to force insurance companies to lower costs than does Cox Enterprises.”

True. However, doing away with employer sponsored heatlh insurance would spread that purchasing power of Cox from a few thousand employees to the entire population. Obviously for it to work, the consumer would need more information (which currently doesn’t exist) so that a true market could function.

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The insurance companies already tell us which doctors we can use. It’s cleverly called “In network” and “Out of network”. Why would anyone in their right mind pay more for an “out of network” doctor?

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dB @ 9:20

I might have to co-opt that template for something later…

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“You take a fraction of the money you are currently blowing on Cigarettes/Alcohol/drugs, Basketball shoes, Starbucks Lattes, Leased or financed automobiles, designer clothes, eating out at restaurants and GO BUY YOUR OWN HEALTHCARE INSURANCE. Pretty simple.”

You left out the part about tradin’ in yo’ welfare Cadillac for a beat-up Toyota.

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“The Supreme Court will have done its job and overturned yet another unconstitutional power grab by you libbies.”

“Then we have a GREAT Supreme Court prededent ruling to keep the federal government at bay from mandating more of our liberties away !!!”

Step away from the hyperbole for a second and explain “then what”…

So it does get struck down, after you wingnuts wake from the celebrations your taxes will STILL be used to subsidize healthcare via the ER to millions, making the healthcare massively expensive to the payer (the evil Gubbimint) and free to the recipient (immigrant, black person, white GOP trailer trash) and insurance will still be expensive. ineffective, and bureaucratically top heavy.

So, any solutions for us? Or just more hyperbole and swooning?

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The question is do we follow the Constitution and limit the powers of government or not. There doesn’t have to be a proposed alternative.

I don’t like seeing people uninsured but I also don’t like being forced to buy a product. We need a balanced budget and limited government. Obamacare does neither.

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civil rights laws were enacted by congress when the nations collective will turned to doing what is right

when we citizens demand an honest and comprehensive study of the health care problems and solution choices we will force congress to move in that direction

all we have right now are the nutso extremes from both parties shouting at each other with disinformation

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“What you say there, you say for other people because you know you have VA to fall back on.”

Don’t count on it. The government and wingnuts in particular will be cutting funds from the VA as soon as they can.

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Well I guess we can look to Romney Care….. Republicans will be voting for him in November

We can look to Newt who has previously spoke in support of mandates

We can also ask the conservative Heritage Foundation who has previously suggested mandates

So we have a few choices

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rightwing,

No one has to propose an alternative. If Obamacare is unconstitutional then it should be struck down no matter what. Do you want to live in a nation where the government can do whatever it wants?

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“The question is do we follow the Constitution and limit the powers of government or not. There doesn’t have to be a proposed alternative.

I don’t like seeing people uninsured but I also don’t like being forced to buy a product. We need a balanced budget and limited government. Obamacare does neither.”

So you’re on record as being OK with spending tax dollars to give people healthcare and medical treatment via the ER?

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Do you want to live in a nation where the government can do whatever it wants?

Did you sleep through the Bush years of illegal wiretaps?

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“Do you want to live in a nation where the government can do whatever it wants?”

We already do live in that nation. You just choose not to acknowledge that fact.

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byte me

there wasn’t an honest discusion
it was both sides pushing limited information

take for instance the idea of 60 million non insured
it kept dwindling down until it was 40 million

then it was determined that some of those were illegal aliens
then it was determined it was some people making over $75k per year who chose not to buy insurance……

an honest discussion will lay everything on the table

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“Do you want to live in a nation where the government can do whatever it wants?”

And did you notice the trillion dollar plus cost of two failed wars?

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Becky – You don’t think the former Vice-President of the US has insurance maybe through a government plan?

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there wasn’t an honest discusion

of course there was. This has been brewing for over 15 years before something passed. The idea for the mandate came from the conservative Heritage Foundation back in the mid 1990’s.

Just because we didn’t come to that fabled “consensus” with people who didn’t want to compromise doesn’t mean it wasn’t discussed.

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Becky – You don’t think the former Vice-President of the US has insurance maybe through a government plan?

Of course he does-Medicare and his congressional insurance.

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Steve,

I was totally anti-Irag War from the beginning. I understood Afghan from the point of view of getting Osama but I think we should have been out long ago.

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godless @ 9:21

That’s something to think about. That could be a tactic to force the GOP into a no-win situation with a single payer system. You would think that Republicans are smart enough to not fall for such a trap though.

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(ir)Rational

Come work with me then. There is some inherent risk, but you’ll also get to protect your country at the same time. We have a posting on USA Jobs. I’m not sure if it has closed yet.

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The USA is the only industrialized first tier nation to not have universal health care. Imagine that.

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Becky,

We have laws that limit the government in ways other countries may not.

Also think about how all of the European countries are going broke and having to cut their services. It doesn’t look sustainable.

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The issue is whether the law is constituional or not. If it’s not then it needs to go.

I agree with this. But the idea that a law that was unconstitutional back in 1793 is still unconstitutional today is delusional but worthy of a good screenplay.

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Let me go back and count the number of conservative “health care is not a right” posts… hold on…

Nah just kidding. I don’t care how many of you post it. After all, 50 million people can be wrong so what’s a handful?

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Steve,

I can see your point of view on the wars. We might disagree a little but not much. I could probably be easily persuaded to say no to Afghan too.

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byte me

it wasn’t an honest discussion

take the european forms of healthcare

dems painted a picture of it being great
repubs painted a picture of it being socialism

but there was never an honest discussion
the pros and cons

for instance……….. yes healthcare in european countries is affordable and is good treatment …….. when you honestly look at it ………… but it comes at a cost………. less innovation……. longer waits…..and it puts a drag on the economy………

an honest discussion would lay out all the pros and cons and let us figure out if we want to go that direction

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Barnes – had his crappy redistricting map tossed out by the GA supreme court like yesterday’s garbage. The map submitted by Deal was given the thumbs up by none other than Obamas’ DOJ.

Rev. Lowrey & his democratic cooks had their silly lawsuit vs. the “all white” cities of Fulton thrown out.

Al Gore had his challenge of Bushie tossed by the Supreme Court.

Ginsberg and her loony statement that if she started a country & a new “legal” document she would not use the US Constitution as the basis

and now Obama with his pride & joy ObamaCare on death watch.

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meant “and” not “or”.

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Canada is not going broke. Their citizens enjoy free or very low cost health care. And don’t start in talking about wait times. Just isn’t true. Canadians love their healthcare plan and don’t understand why it is not here in the USA.

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The USA is the only industrialized first tier nation to not have universal health care

Afghanistan*, Argentina, Austria, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Costa Rica, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iraq*, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Oman, Portugal, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Sweden, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Ukraine and the United Kingdom

*Universal health coverage provided by United States war funding

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I want to be able to shop for health insurance like I can shop for car insurance!

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Bro – I don’t believe I’m qualified. I have applied for MANY federal jobs, but I have never gotten a call back on any of them. The only time I got a notification after I applied for the job was when they told me they had decided they weren’t going to fill the position.

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Also think about how all of the European countries are going broke and having to cut their services. It doesn’t look sustainable.

It is if your demographics are working in your favor. In Canada they are. In Germany they are not. In Japan, it’s a disaster approaching.

You get around this with better immigration policies that bring in younger talent from other countries.

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“I want to be able to shop for health insurance like I can shop for car insurance!”

You can. You can even get started with an affordable rate… but the premiums WILL increase and insane rates every year. I get tagged with about 25% to 35% a year increases annually (even during the W years)

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Let’s just ignore that the CBO recently stated that the Obama “Afforable” care will double in cost vs. Obama’s initial projections.

I would rather just ignore that your cite-free assertions originated from men who’ve pulled this stuff out of their ass.

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(c) 1945, 1965, 1993, 2009. All rights reserved.

Yeah, at a certain point you have to let an argument that near-sighted die.

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Medical students are flocking to the specialist degrees as they pay much more.

Or to wall street, which pays even more.

I agree this needs to be addressed by having Medicare reduce the extra pay for specialists. They started this.

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Bro:

“That could be a tactic to force the GOP into a no-win situation with a single payer system.”

I’ve always contended that ObamaCare was designed to fail in order to put the country into a single payer system.

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If the nonaffordable health destruction program is deemed to be illegal by the Supremes then we will revert to what is left of the finest health care system the world has ever known. The health insurance companies will prosper with out government interference. The Obama death panels will cease to exist. 500 billion dollars will be returned to medicare funding. Young americans will again be interested in going into the medical profession. Business will once again begin to hire. Unemployment will go down. Our healthcare system and our economy will return to normal. Heavens!

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All these other countries aren’t in the business of policing the world. We would be able to do more for our healthcare here if we weren’t spending so much overseas.

YAY! A moment of liberal clarity!!! Woo-hoo!!!

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Georgia, like most states, is seriously short of medical professionals today. By 2020, the shortage will be acute. If the health care law works as you and other proponents predict and actually provides coverage for 30 million Americans, it won’t really matter because there will be no doctors to see them.

Do you think thatwould be the case if the medical profession was glamourized as much as Wall Street? Funny that we are short on medical workers here when other countries ship their students here en masse to study at our schools. They also come here to work in internships and residency programs. The problem is that we don’t encourage our own people to enter that profession.

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(ir)Rational

About the only qualifications you need for my position is to be in decent physical condition, have a clean record, and be under 37yrs old. If you can pass the physical and background check, we’ll teach you everything else. Most people can’t get past the physical or background.

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Mighty Whitey – you kill me. “Death Panels” exist with private insurance. Do you post from some alternate universe or something?

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“Is health care a human right, or can it be denied to those who are unable to pay for it?”
====================================================

I believe health care is a human right, just as I believe social security is a human right in one’s old age, and a good education is a human right that should be available to all classes of Americans.

Conservatives should have been careful for what they have wished – because they are about to get it.

What will happen – without ObamaCare – when a person loses his job because of physical or mental illness? He, then, will lose his healthcare. And his family will probably go bankrupt, and worse, if his illness is severe enough and if it lasts long enough, and costs him enough – without medical coverage.

This is what happens when health insurance is connected to employment.

The next, and better step, of course, would be to pass a single-payer medical insurance plan for the nation, but that is not going to happen anytime soon, because there was tremendous resistance. even. to passing ObamaCare. Single-payer would need to happen in small, incremental steps – like first having ObamaCare sustained.

No protection for pre-existing conditions, no protection against being dropped just when you need medical coverage, no protection against inordinately high insurance premiums, no coverage for your children until they are 26 on your plan.

Yes, our nation is about to get what many have wished for. Looks like partisan thinking (and interests) will prevail among members of the Supreme Court, once again.

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(ir)Rational

Posting doesn’t close until April 30th.

http://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/311667200

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Our financial situation has made the decision for us. We cannot afford Obamacare, and we cannot afford what we have now. Until we honestly deal with this issue, our options are very limited. These questions must be answered in this order:

1) Is healthcare a right? If it is, what is the basic level that must be maintained for someone who can pay nothing?

2) Given the answer to #1, how will we REALISTICALLY pay for it? Not ridiculous growth projections and CBO assumptions, but realistic projections on income and expense taking into account we already have built in deficits and a HUGE debt.

3) How will this be presented to the American people so they understand it?

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mm @ 9:23

1) Better doctor than those in your plan
2) There are no specialists in your plan that you can see (for example the nearest nephrologist is over 100 miles away)
3) Hidden providers in your latest surgery – your surgeon is in network, but the associate surgeon is not -> you get a bill for an out-of-network surgeon

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Becky: It is not an either/or situation. The answer should be that we try to create a system that works. The sad part about the Obama plan is that it will expand insurance coverage but it won’t mean that a person who doesn’t have access to health care now will have access after 2014.

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godless

I didn’t initially think that. I was pretty much ambivalent towards the ACA at first. I’ve always carried insurance as I always try to stay employed. I’ve also been lucky enough that most of my medical expenses so far in life have been dental related up until my wife got pregnant. Looking at things now, it would seem that somebody’s taking a calculated risk that shooting down the ACA would make the argument more persuasive towards a single payer system. So far, the GOP’s argument and tactics have done just that.

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If the whole thing is struck down, it means the Libertarian concept of “every man for himself, health care for those who can afford it, education for those who can afford it, the rest of you get the scraps” has won. Not a pleasant concept, especially since it seems like that’s EXACTLY what is going to happen.

The Neo-cons and the libertarians can basically be called anarchists for this – they want to bring down the keystone of civilization – shared responsibility and shared goals.

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The USA is the only industrialized first tier nation to not have universal health care. Imagine that.</I.

Welcome to the disease called the GOP…

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The Obama death panels will cease to exist.

Isn’t it hard for something to exist if it has never come into existence? Even if you are remotely correct, how does rejecting the mandate deal with actual death panels that already exist in our society, and not just in the collective imagination of a segment of Americans?

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/03/24/3833274/texas-has-had-death-panels-since.html

If all you know about healthcare “death panels” is what you heard on a talk show, then you must think the feds will pull the plug on patients.

Yes, the governor who says, “I always stand by the side of life.”

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Redacted for readability…

The USA is the only industrialized first tier nation to not have universal health care. Imagine that.

It goes hand in hand with the fact that we are second to last in the list of civilized countries that per capita believes in evolution.

And then throw in the George Waltons of the world who stand utterly ALONE in denying anthropogenic climate change.

Welcome to the disease called the GOP…

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$3.90 a gallon!!!! Thanks Mr. President…..

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It is not an either/or situation.The answer should be that we try to create a system that works

And that would look like ____________*

*beeyotching about Obamacare is not an acceptable answer. You can’t set a broken leg with complaints about socialist-marxist demoncrats.

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I say let the Congress and President and Supreme Court Justices pay for their own private insurance plans so they can feel the PAIN like everyone else. Let them sweat and worry how they are gonna pay for their care.

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Becky is right. If Cheney had not have been the VP of the US and was a private citizen, there is no way in hell he could have bought a insurance policy. I agree, the priviledged will always come out on top. Has been that way since at least 812AD

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Brosephus™, I thought for sure you were reading Jays columns here when he was applauding the merits of the death panels. I know, I know no liberal ever called them “death squads or death panels,” but they are set up to determine whether or not the government would allow treatment to be administered to certain individuals.

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Any man or woman who has served in our armed forces and oppose “Obama Care” but use VA Medical are hypocrites. Va medical is “Obama Care” writ large…

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Tomorrow…

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Mighty Righty

March 28th, 2012
10:05 am

MR,
Please read my 1007 to Joseph and insert your name too…thank you.

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Mighty – can you read? Did you read the wikipedia article and comprehend that your “death panels” were just political nonsense and this concept is currently what our private insurance companies ALREADY DO????

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For all of you asking if health care is a right, the answer is, of course not. If it were a right it would have to be given to us free (and that means not paid for by taxes), and then who would provide it? If ‘health care’ is deemed a right, what level of health care are you talking about: a band-aid or a heart transplant? Again, who would provide it? We don’t pay for our rights, so we wouldn’t pay for health care. Are we going to rely on pro-bono doctors?

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Bro – They might not want to touch me, but the sure do it a lot. I get pulled aside for “extra screening” every time I go through the airport. Anyway, I got to go to a meeting.

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I say extremely high deductibles for catastrophic care only.

People who are bullish on crap-ass high deductible plans have, obviously, never endured enjoyed the consequences of them.

But hey, no worries. Your hospital will be happy to work out a payment plan for that three, four, five thousand dollar outpatient procedure you had to have, that you’re funding entirely out of your own pocket. You’ll be making out monthly checks to a collection agency for years to come, true, but I’m sure that won’t affect anything down the road!

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General welfare clause. It’s in the Constitution – TWICE. How the hell do you think we have Medicare, welfare, and social security?

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I thought for sure you were reading Jays columns here when he was applauding the merits of the death panels.

What does that have to do with what I asked you? You’re yammering about death panels that do not exist right now. I asked you about death panels that have been in effect since 1999. Care to try again?

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Like most Progressive thoughts, individual responsibility is as foreign as Jupiter. The bleeding hearts that they are, the only acceptable solution is a one-size-fits-all solution that can only be controlled by the Feds.

We don’t turn sick people away from emergency health services now, so where are those poor people denied health care that Obamacare will fix? Answer, there are not any.

There has been numerous staged fixes to the cost of healthcare discussed before and after Obamacare became law. Tort reform and purchasing across state lines but two.

There may not be an exact plan in place, but for sure the fix is not Obamacare. It is not a mandate. It is not growing the federal government. It is not a fix where immediate exemptions are issued cronies. It is not shredding the Constitution so that more wealth transfer can occur.

The Federal Government needs to enable states to have fixes of their own, not mandate a fix that

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stands, that is but one part and parcel of of the Pro-Life culture of death.

The only slim hope for the GOP anytime soon is that their children toss their parents’ twisted, dogmatic ideology of self-destructiveness, 1950s/Joseph McCarthy worldview and hyper-xenophobia to the curb.

And grow a fully functioning brain, spine and moral ethos. A tough row to hoe for sure after being poisoned by those in the Old White Men Only Party for so long…

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“Doctors are leaving the medical profession in droves due to Medicare and the upcoming Marxist Medicine. ”

Link?

thanks

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they are set up to determine whether or not the government would allow treatment to be administered to certain individuals.

Mighty Righty

Click on the link I gave you. Texas is already doing that. They’re denying treatment to people who have the insurance to cover it. You’re dealing with fantasy at this point as that part of the ACA doesn’t go into effect until some time in the future. I’m talking about a law that’s 12 years old and was not repealed by Gov. Rick Perry who was one of those who campaigned against the ACA and, by default, death panels.

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johnnyreb-I think you will discover that most people just scroll past your diatribes so no need to correct.

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Polls show that about eighty per cent of Americans aer dissatisfied with our present health care system. Their premiums are too high for them to afford. If the mandates are struck down, the cournty will either move toward a one payer system, or the states will build more public hospitals like Grady to treat everyone who comes to the door, and collects what they can.

I know a number of people who have been without health insurance and have used Grady. They pay what they can and taxpayers make up the difference.

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Becky. “My husband was laid off from a company he had been with other 30 years, suddenly no health insurance. He is now on my plan and my monthly fee has doubled.
He could not afford to buy his own and he probably could not even find coverage at his age.
Yes-we need universal health coverage!”

Why don’t you just find some rich person and steal the money from them to pay for it?

If you’re completely honest with yourself, Becky, that’s EXACTLY what you’re asking the government to do on your behalf.

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Nothing will happen, life will go on…

Jay, let’t talk some Trayvon Martin, why aren’t you touching that story??

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What stuff was made up except what we were told what the bill would cost?

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Woodstock Mike

March 28th, 2012
10:16 am
Nothing will happen, life will go on…

Jay, let’t talk some Trayvon Martin, why aren’t you touching that story??

Were you unconscious yesterday?

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Yes, I understand that Becky. Its unfortunate that he was laid off but its good that you are employed somewhere where he can get coverage…even if you have to pay a little more for it. I still don’t understand why you expect your employer to cover your spouse for free. Its not your employer’s fault that your husband’s employer laid him off.

And, I own my place of employment and I provide health insurance to all of my employees and all of their dependents and have done so since day one. Yet, I am being punished by Obamacare.

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I’m curious how much us taxpayers have paid for Santorum’s family insurance. Anyone have a clue? Another family that would be unable to purchase insurance living off taxpayer funded insurance.

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Jay: In response to your comments on my earlier posting:
1) Medical residencies are the best predictor of future medical workforce…a majority of medical residents stay to practice medicine once their term has ended. In 1998, Congress permanently froze funding at 1998 levels for medical residency programs. In the intervening years, Massachusetts saw signficant population outflow but they continued churning out new doctors as if their population was the same. In sunbelt states like GA, a lot of people moved in but we still are limited to our 1998 medical residency cap.
2) The median age of practicing nurses and physicians, in both the North and South, is rapidly rising as baby boomers age. I think I heard that the median age for nurses in GA is 48-50 (that is of course if you trusty by cloudy memory). Georgia is very short right now and the shortage gets significantly worse. and yes, the laws of supply and deman will take affect.
3) You are incorrectly assuming that uninsured patients who seek care in the ER will discontinue that practice. IF they can’t find a doctor who will agree to see them, they will continue going to the ER. It will be better for them..they can pay a bill..and better for the ER bottom line but it doesn’t necessarily create the right kind of access for them as a patient.
4) there is another issue worth considering. In Massachusetts (and in Medicare when an uninsured patient hits age 65 and is newly insured) , they found that newly insured patients who present themselves at a doctors office have a lot going wrong due to years of negect,etc. The cost curve of treating them is extremely high. All the more reason, of course, to get them insurance but in Massachusetts it taxed the system in that it created delays in MRIs, etc.
5) On another note, Obamacare cynically treats all patients the same, i.e. penalizing hospitals for readmission. In reality, a newly insured homeless person is much more difficult to treat than a person with a family who may have suffered a job loss etc and in some cases, readmission would be a good follow up care recommendation. President Obama imposes signficant penalties for readmission.

My point is that the U.S. has such an unrealistic expectation about the potential positives of the law. IT was a first step but, in my opinion, stopped far short of true health reform and I worry that Americans are locked into black and white postions on Obamacare and that we have stopped thinking of ways to make our system work.

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Woodstock Mike

March 28th, 2012
10:16 am

I guess you have a life and don’t spend every second checking/reading Jay’s blog.

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The Thin Man at least you know where the people go to get extremely good medical care. Switzerland. I have said this over and over… If obamacare fail/getsvoteddown look at the swiss model, adopt it as our own and be done with it. Then the right and left can shut up and get this nation going in the right direction for health care for everyone. And I do mean everyone.

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BECKY-

No I was working yesterday and not sitting on a blog. Why would you make such an incredibly rude comment like that? Wow, you must be completely ignorant! Let me guess, Democrat?

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“The Reagan-era law requiring emergency rooms to treat patients regardless of ability to pay still stands as de facto acceptance that health care is a right.”

…and that right there is one of the items forced upon this once-free nation by an out-of-control Democrat Congress. Invoking the honorable Pres. Ronald Wilson Reagan like that in this “argument” is not fair.

With that fact laid out clearly on this lefty blog, health care was never a right guaranteed by the Founding Fathers in The Constitution. We could all buy health insurance if government would simply get out of the way with its high, high taxes and regulations. If those burdens were lifted, then WE THE PEOPLE could buy privatized insurance as to OUR needs and not Nanny Pelosi’s needs. Lifting Big Gov’t will drive price$ way down to affordable levels. If this happened, I could get check-ups just as much as I got my oil changed. Amen, Bill

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“Peter: When did you move to Georgia? Obviously you weren’t hear for any of the 130 years the Dems were in charge. LOL.”

Or aware that the last two elected governors are democrats turned republican….

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Libertarian,

More likely he is just trolling.

(Because after all that list o recent posts at the top of this page is hidden like the fees and conditions on peoples credit card statements!)

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Becky says her premium doubled because she now has 2 people on her health plan instead of 1.

LOL!!

Well Becky, you now have 2 people so your plan increases? What planet are you from? Did you think you could add him for free?? Oh yeah, you think somebody else should pay that, right?? So sad!!

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Maine did away with the pre-existing conditions clause several years ago and seems to be doing well. The Court can strike the mandates and leave the reat.

I don’t buy the argument that the law can’t exist without the mandates. Works in Maine. Will work in other states as well.

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St. Simons, why don’t you go live in a true banana republic for a few months and experience the living conditions and healthcare. Hey, I hear Cuba has great medical capabilities. Give it a shot for a few months.

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Becky

March 28th, 2012
10:25 am
Gah-you all missed my point. My husband would be unable to buy health insurance if he was not able to come under mine. Of course my cost doubled, there are now two people on it. But if I was not able to do that he would be uninsured and you would be paying for his healthcare from Grady. Get it?

You are missing our point, it is not free.

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Some people just cannot read for comprehension. So sad.

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Mighty Righty

If you’re wanting to be Capt. Save-a-man when it comes to death panels, why not put your efforts into places where US citizens are already getting denied care, even when they have the insurance/money to pay for it? It’s a chance to put your money where your mouth is. The fact that you say you don’t care is quite indicative that you really don’t care about it at all. You’re simply using that as an escuse to argue. No problem though, as I already knew that’s what you were doing.

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Kramer-thank you. You just validated my statement.

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I guess Aquagirl beat me to it.

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Where on earth are the liberals getting the idea that there will be no cost to them for the Obama health destruction program. Actual cost will run each of us somewhere around $1000 per month. They young who do not now want insuance will be forced to pay. The lady that earlier, Becky, complains that she had to pay extra to cover her husband. Becky, just who do you think will pay for all of the illegal immigrants, the poor and others who are not now buying insurance? You Becky, and me and everyone else on here spouting off about how great Obama health destruction program will.

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Again, Might Whitey just pulls lies out of his…

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Mighty Righty

___________

That;s what we are paying now to treat the people that don’t have insuance. Sounds like a wash to me.

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“If ObamaCare dies, what then?”

Same thing that always happens. Republicans will come up with something that the Democrats will kill…then the Democrats will come up with something the Republicans will kill….and so on and so on and so on!!

Its how politics work in America!

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When this monster bill was being created behind closed doors polls indicated that 80% of the population were satisfied with their health care as it was. Now we have close to 70% saying either get rid of the individual mandate or repeal the entire bill. It’s now in the hands of Supreme Court and if it’s a 5 to 4 decision against ObamaCare it will indeed be a campaign issue, however, given the way this bill came into existence and all of the issues that have been revealing about its cost and impact on both business as well as individuals, the Democrats will be at a disadvantage to package and sell a replacement to the electorate.

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Well, Steve and I seem to have a disagreement over six inches vs. three inches.

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willydoit?

March 28th, 2012
10:33 am

This is true. Makes you wonder why everyone gets their panties in a wad…nothing will change either way.

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Brosephus™ you are losing the argument on Obama non affordable health destruction act so you want to talk about Texas. I don’t care about Texas. I am not going to educate myself about Texas. I will believe whatever you say about Texas.

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Steve

March 28th, 2012
10:26 am

I’m the same weight, at 45, as I was in high school.

You bstd! Jay, get this guy oughta here.

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“Actual cost will run each of us somewhere around $1000 per month.”

Link from an unbiased source?

Thanks

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So let me see if I follow the logic: If you don’t buy heath insurance, and you get sick, it’s your problem and you shouldn’t expect the government to fix it for you. However, If you buy a gigantic SUV that rolls around at 10 MPG and gas prices start to go up, it’s not your problem and government should be expected to fix it.

Gotcha.

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77 per cent say health care system needs fundamental change. Poll taken in 2009.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/health/policy/21poll.html

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From Votevets…

There is an absolutely amazing veteran running for US Senate in Arizona, and you have to hear his story. Richard Carmona is running to take the seat being vacated by Senator John Kyl. This is a very winnable seat – with the right candidate. Richard Carmona is that candidate. He needs our help, though.

Rich’s story is an amazing one, and I only scratched the surface. Click the link above to view a bio video of him, and help out his campaign. Let’s send Richard Carmona to the Senate!

Maybe the Arizona Republicans can swiftboat him…

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I would rather pay for your husband at Grady

Yeah, that’s why Cobb, Cherokee, and other counties are just begging to help pay for Grady instead of freeloading off the available care. Oh, wait….

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Oscar, the latest polls show the country either split or more epople not wanting the bill. Even the latest NYT poll states that the majority do not think we can afford it. We need change but, not change we can not afford and cramed down our throats like this bill was.

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Between gas prices, unemployment, the deficit, and the Obamacare mess…I think I am going to have to go with Romney in 2012.

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Kramer-the problem with you other than you are an obnoxious a$$ is that you have no other plan you just want to complain about this plan.

You state we need change. Got any ideas???

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Kramer

—————

I was replying to what Recon said about the polls taken in 2009 before the heath care bill was proposed. Not what present polls say about the bill.

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“If Obamacare dies, what then?

1. We get this measure of our freedom back. Possibly, just possibly, the Government won’t control whether or not I have access to health care in my lifetime

2. The potentially uncheckable tyranny of Federal Government coercion is reigned in, at least for the moment

3. An opportunity ONCE AGAIN exists for debate of free-market approaches to insurance reforms, debate which was summarily suppressed by the Democratic Congress and Administration in the passage of Obamacare

If I can live with $3.75 and up gas prices to preserve free markets I can live with the aftermath of killing Obamacare. I welcome the opportunity with open arms. Live free or die.

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Steve Atl – “Between gas prices, unemployment, the deficit, and the Obamacare mess…I think I am going to have to go with Romney in 2012.”

Do you also feel that by ordering Miller Lite instead of Miller that you are accomplishing significant change as well?

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Butch Cassidy

March 28th, 2012
10:38 am
So let me see if I follow the logic: If you don’t buy heath insurance, and you get sick, it’s your problem and you shouldn’t expect the government to fix it for you. However, If you buy a gigantic SUV that rolls around at 10 MPG and gas prices start to go up, it’s not your problem and government should be expected to fix it.

Gotcha.

Uh, OK, you talked me into liking obamacare because your logic was so spot on. Please, that was stupid even for you.

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@2, the Obama people had a chance to go the way you posted. They went out of their way to avoid even looking at it? I guess the question is why?

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Kramer – “blahblah…That has got to hurt ya’”

Everything you type hurts, but not in the way you seem to think,
Nothing is Free/GLL – Snap

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Who wants to buy my lunch today? I spent all my money at the bar last night and I have a right to eat!

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Oh, sainty simons, you are such an angry person. I hope you get better one day or grow up. Which ever comes first.

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“Where on earth are the liberals getting the idea that there will be no cost”

We aren’t. End of irrelevent rant.

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Kramer – Uh, OK, you talked me into liking obamacare because your logic was so spot on. Please, that was stupid even for you.”

Wasn’t trying to get anyone to “like” Obamacare” Personally, I think the whole concept is a waste of space. I simply do what I’ve always done. Pay for my own heatlh insurance and not run to the ER everytime the cold and flu season hits.

In regard to my analogy, I’m just a little tired of people standing on their soapboxes and railing against government intervention while at the same time begging for government intervention.

Whether you like Obamacare or not isn’t really my concern.

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Man! Can’t you just feel the love here???!!!

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Curtis Rivers

March 28th, 2012
10:50 am
Margaret Meade was asked what she considered to be the first sign that a society had reached the mark of being identified as “civilized.” She replied that it could be found in a healed broken femur: an injury from which one cannot recover without the aid of the society about them. Signs of this level of caring go as far back as discoveries about Neanderthal groups. If the mark of being known as a “civilized people” is reached by our having reached the point of caring for one another, then a significant number of us do not qualify, to include a significant segment of the GOP, the Tea Party, and other right-wing groups. Meade further remarked that savage societies are marked by clubs, bows and arrows, shattered skulls and other such marks of savagery. Paul Ryan’s budget, the blind following of Ayn Rand’s Objectivist Capitalism…do these not mark a descent into the madness of the savage?

Curtis, you show us where socialism is working better then capitalism. This is not a bill to think by the heart, it is a bill that is either afforable or not. We need an overhaul of our system, just not this one. You liberals or socialist think that the ultra-rich will just be able to fund everything through their taxes. As it stands today, every class in this country will have to have a tax increase to help pay for this bill and the other mindless projects that Obama has in store.

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Aquagirl, Grady is a mess of an operation and you know it.

I wouldn’t diss Grady—they’re the only level one trauma center that has the remotest chance of removing that bug lodged up your bum.

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without the mandate, insurance companies cannot be required to cover pre-existing conditions

Jay, covering pre-existing conditions was already mandated before the ACA in group plans (the coverage provided by employers). Some covered from day one, some have a six-month period of non-coverage before they become covered.

The ACA merely extends this to individual policies (and removes those non-coverage periods from corporate plans, of course).

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Here is a comprehensive list of state-level reforms that would address many of the problems with the uninsured if the federal law is overturned: http://sites.google.com/site/georgiahealthreform2012/.

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Butch, then I agree with what you stand for. That said, the government is supposed to protect it’s citizens not force its will. The only way government can help with the gas problem is to allow more refineries to be built. Not a single one has been built in 35 years. Unbelievable.

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oblama -”Next the government will be requiring everyone to eat certain foods and be a specific weight.”

Or drive a certain speed, or pay for other peoples children to go to school with other peoples tax dollars, or require that people who go to the ER be seen whether they can pay or not, or require that a certain % of income be given for Social Security. Oh the humanity!

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on’t Forget

__________

Sorry. Computer malfunction. System is supposed to reject duplicates.

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Bill, if you can afford insurance but choose not to get it then you should refuse healthcare when your money runs out. If you don’t you are simply transferring risk and the assocaited cost to your fellow Americans.

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Becky hasn’t figured out yet under OC,her unemployed husband would still be required to buy and pay for the insurance she claims he couldnt get.

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Don’t Forget

I saw that. That would explain a bit, and that would make me like that decision even less.

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Nothing will happen. the Republicans will stall anything that the Democrats propose and they won’t propose anything themselves. They haven’t so far.

Their next step will be to cease unemployment benfits……..

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The only way government can help with the gas problem is to allow more refineries to be built. Not a single one has been built in 35 years. Unbelievable.

Wanna volunteer your backyard or neighborhood for one to be built?

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Butch – I think there is a significant difference between a shot of Tequila and Coors Light.

The economy is our biggest problem right now:

Romney – 25 years of successful experience in Finance and Economics

Obama – No experience…learning on the job

Enough said.

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That’s because men have been telling women for years that 3 inches ARE 6 inches

My female Drill Instructor had a GREAT joke about that, not repeatable here.

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Butch – Glad to hear that you admit that the government should require you to eat certain foods and meet weight requirements. Sounds like you are an old fashioned socialist/ communist – China awaits you. You are free to go where socialism abounds. What’s holding you here in the U.S.A. which is still a democracy? Government should have limited powers and it’s way over the limit. Castro is waiting for your arrival.

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Steve Atl – “Romney – 25 years of successful experience in Finance and Economics”

Sounds like the perfect man to be Secretary of the Treasury. As for POTUS, not so much. But don’t take my word for it, just ask Santorum. Not knocking Romney, we were both trust fund babies and we both made a lot of money over the course of our careers. However, I just don’t see him bringing any new ideas to the table in regards to policy.

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Brosephus™

March 28th, 2012
11:03 am

Don’t Forget

I saw that. That would explain a bit, and that would make me like that decision even less.

True, and distressing but less so than a systemic bias IMO. It’s smaller scale, easier to detect and may be easier to correct in the future.

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Common Sense

I don’t think it was a party thing. The refinery issue was a health thing. I don’t know of anybody who’s volunteered to have one built near their home.

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cons will lose.

Our President is kicking willard booty in the swing States.

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Bruno – “But, instead of applying a little thought and a little elbow grease to find ways to lower costs, the genius Democrats can only come up with a plan to spread the costs to more suckers.”

I’m sorry, were the Republicans not allowed to come with a workable solution? Hell, they had the option to do it way back when I was still a member of the party.

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Don’t Forget

I don’t think it will be corrected, at least not as long as people would have their job jeopardized because of making an arrest in such a case.

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For all you who support the mandate, what if, at some point in the future when Republicans are in charge, it was decided that for the sake of public safety, every American must buy a gun? Would that be acceptable to you under the precedent set by ObamaCare? And yes, I know Kennesaw’s already done that, but the law was amended to allow people to opt out after it was challenged in court by the ACLU.

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oblama -”It would be a blessing to have someone build a refinery in my back yard because that would make me a millionaire.”

Would you like me to send you some literature on the fabulous real estate opportunities available in Love Canal?

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Butch – you are not being a good socialist if you haven’t already given up your apartment and sent your money to D.C. Maybe you are just a liberal who wants to save the world with everyone’s money but your own – like Jimmy Carter.

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But, instead of applying a little thought and a little elbow grease to find ways to lower costs, the genius Democrats can only come up with a plan to spread the costs to more suckers.

Please Bruno, enlighten us with the brilliant plan the REPUBLICANS have. I’ll wait.

Oh wait, their plan is “trash Obama.” Well they have done that now what? Last thing i remember is that (yet again) unfunded crap that Bush did for drugs and medicare. What am I missing?

What’s YOUR plan? I mean other than insulting “librerals” and Genius Democrats.” Fish, cut bait, or get the hell out of the boat.

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Would you like me to send you some literature on the fabulous real estate opportunities available in Love Canal?

Seeing as how we’re EXPORTING refinery products, maybe you should include the fabulous opportunities in dirigible mooring fields too.

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If the system was so great before the Affordable Care act was passed, why is it so f***ked up?

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Paul Ryan’s budget plan has a few good ideas. Some other folks in Congress have other notions about budgeting that clobbers the deficit in five rather than ten years.

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“I still find it amazing that we have an elected President organizing protests against the Supreme Court and fellow American citizens.”

Not intended to be factual.

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I’m sorry, were the Republicans not allowed to come with a workable solution? Hell, they had the option to do it way back when I was still a member of the party.

Butch (and Brosephus)–Your logic here seems to be that if the Repubs don’t have an alternative plan, then we should automatically embrace the Dem plan, which is a guaranteed loser. IMO, it wold be better to do nothing.

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“A better analogy would be the forcing of all people to buy auto insurance whether or not they have a car. That’s what Obamacare is”

Nope, not a good analogy. EVERYONE has health.

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gadem

March 28th, 2012
8:59 am

Republicans are a self hating bunch…
_______________________________

Absolutely , well put !

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Bruno – “Your logic here seems to be that if the Repubs don’t have an alternative plan, then we should automatically embrace the Dem plan, which is a guaranteed loser.”

No, only that if one side says that the other sides plan is a “loser”, then they should be prepared to come to the table with a plan that actually works and can explain in detail why it is better.

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mrsstsimons hosp group has a ‘guest’ up there viewing the hearings.
She is emailing back to the mrs bosses that, by Kennedy’s line of
questioning, its gonna be 5-4 against the mandate.
In that much, she seems sure.

In typical Republican sneaky weasel fashion, they’re trying to kill it
without suffering the People’s wrath.
But in any case, she says she has never been around a farther removed
aloof, and ‘clueless to the avg American’s plight’ group in her life.

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Paul Ryan’s budget plan has a few good ideas. Some other folks in Congress have other notions about budgeting that clobbers the deficit in five rather than ten years.

Considering it would be somewhere near 2040 before Ryan’s bill cobbers the budget deficit, it wouldn’t be the ideal deficit reduction plan if there are some that do it in 5-10 years.

———————

Bruno

That is not my logic at all. I didn’t like the idea of the ACA, and I didn’t like the idea of running on “Repeal and Replace” without actually having something to replace. If we do nothing, we go back to getting financially reamed by the insurance companies. It doesn’t affect me as much now as it affects others, but given my family medical history, it is only a matter of time before I get into the coverage fight with my insurance.

My idea is something similar to the Swiss model. If we focused more on prevention and awareness, I think we could cut out a lot of unnecessary treatment that causes prices to skyrocket. I’m still laughing at the fact that, while the GOP was dead set against the public option, their attack on the ACA has shown why such a thing would probably end up factoring into the solution anyway.

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Bruno – “The problem we have in healthcare is overall costs, which will only go up under Obamacare.”

The costs will go up whether there is Obamacare or not. Rising healthcare costs did not start with the Obama administration and they will certainly not end with it.

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Fred – I can tell you listen to the lies on NBC, CNN, etc. By the way, I am neither Dem nor Repub so don’t label me. I rarely listen to the garbage on T.V. be it CNN, NBC or Fox. To much hate and negativism on both sides. I voted for Ross Perot and common sense solutions to reduce this massive debt built up over years and years of spending by BOTH parties. Time for a 3rd party – with common sense. You can’t spend your way out of debt. Start with TERM limits in Congress to match the term limits we have for the President. There is so much entrenched power in D.C. that wants to take care of themselves that they won’t do what has to be done to reduce the debt and save this country from destruction.

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By 2008 anyone with any sense knew land/house prices were way out of line with reality.

Very few appraisals done between 1998 and 2008 were accurate.

Around 2008-2009 appraisals reflected at least some of the downturn (especially in the Atlanta area which was overbuilt)

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We have trademarked many phrases such as “Kill Zimmermann”

well no. However:

http://tinyurl.com/d8brl5l

Rude Pundit, per usual, has the current, inevitable blame-the-victim narrative perfectly pegged.

(language alert, but I imagine you all know that.)

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oblama – “I rarely listen to the garbage on T.V. be it CNN, NBC or Fox.”

Maybe you should tune in once in a while, that way you wouldn’t make idiotic statements like calling Obama a “civil rights class action suit trial lawyer”.

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Why is nobody but Ron Paul suggesting the concept of medical freedom? Why does the AMA along with state legislatures get to dictate who I can and cannot contract with to perform medical services? Why does the AMA get to decide who can run a medical school, how many students they are allowed to teach, graduate, etc. so as to keep supply short and prices high? Why does the state government get to decide what every insurance company MUST cover, and who can do business in each state thus undermining any coverage for alternative care and other low cost yet highly effective therapies? Why does the government get to decide what I am allowed to put in my body for my own health? Why does the government get to decide who can and who cannot deduct medical expenses, insurance costs, and even what is allowed to be deductible as a service, etc.? Why does the federal government use its actual and intended legal authority to regulate (make regular) the sale of insurance accross state lines and allow these sales so that greater competition will bring down prices? Why does the FDA ban the publishing of information that could make for far more informed medical consumers – specifically about the well-documented health benefits of nutrional supplements, herbs, homeopathic medicines, fruits, vegetables, etc.?

Why did the republicans not offer freedom as an alternative to this totalitarian medical plan of Obama’s? Why are both political parties more concerned about protecting the established players in the medical market rather than enhancing the choices, freedom, and liberty of healthcare consumers?

Why does every idiot in the media (that would be all of them) continue to treat insurance and health care as interchangable words?? Why does the media continue to treat health insurance as anything other than a pre-paid medical plan? Insurance is about paying to cover risks of the unknown, yet most medical plans are simply paying out money to cover basic maintenance in the hopes that we will get it all back by the end of the year? This is a massively destructive practise that raises the costs of everything.

How long will it take before americans wake up and realize that EVERYTHING govenrment touches it makes far worse – including medicine?

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The only plan the GOP has is to ensure their wealthy insurance company donors stay fat and happy. America, be damned.

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Generation$crewed

March 28th, 2012
8:54 am

What if they are over 23 and working on their Masters? Under the old law, they will not be able to stay on the health insurance.

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I scanned through some, not all, seeking an answer to the question “ObamaCare attempts to provide an answer to that question. If that answer proves unacceptable to a majority on the U.S. Supreme Court, what’s the next answer?”

I read talking points, generalities, sound bites and theory. Nothing specific.

It appears the Republican Party is the party of whining, not ideas.

If anybody has an answer to ‘what then?” I’d love to hear it. Haven’t heard ‘it’ for two years and November’s fast approaching. Time’s running out to convince voters Republicans actually have a practical idea on the subject.

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oblama

March 28th, 2012
11:47 am

Fred – I can tell you listen to the lies on NBC, CNN, etc.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You can’t tell a damn thing. You have yet to make a post that has one shred of truth or sense in it. You show our true colors by using, what you think is a clever insult to our President’s name. That right there shows you don’t have too much sense and that you are a dyed in the wool card carrying Republican. An independent, like butch and I, would have a screen name like that. Oh wait, we DON’T do we?

You show your true colors in that you have called anyone who doesn’t walk lock step with the drivel you spew a “communist, socialist,” or other (to you) derogatory terms. I know, you don’t listen to Limbaugh or FOX, it’s just COINCIDENCE that everything you say is what they say and how they say it.

Yawn………….

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Why does the federal government use its actual and intended legal authority to regulate (make regular) the sale of insurance accross state lines and allow these sales so that greater competition will bring down prices?

Insurance can already be purchased across state lines. The insurance company only has to meet the requirements set forth by the state they’re trying to expand to.

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We should all be writing our Congresspeople and other federal leaders to purchase their own private health insurance and get off of their socialized healthcare (Congress, Justices, President).

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“We should all be writing our Congresspeople and other federal leaders to purchase their own private health insurance and get off of their socialized healthcare (Congress, Justices, President”

Why should the President and the Congress have to get off? They passed the bill and it was signed to get insurance to everyone. Seems to me they’re clear on that one.

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The mandate isn’t based on the issue of pre-existing conditions. The mandate makes the government a coercive legal force, instead of a restrictive forces as it is designed. That’s the basal issues. If this were simply a matter of doing away with penalizing pre-existing conditions, the language of the law would simply state that a person cannot be refused coverage on the basis of pre-existing conditions.

It’s the liberal working mantra. Take any issue and associate it with a pretty word or phrase, like ‘for the children’, so then when you are against something that is clearly unconstitutional or intrusive, your not against an unconstitutional law, your against ‘the children’.

As we have in this case, your not against an unconstitutional law, that is expensive, poorly concieved and unconstitutional, your against people with pre-existing conditions.
And you wonder why people think your dumb…

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Looney – you are what you say you are. Are you off of your lithium again? Just the opposite – I don’t twant the government doing anything for me that I can do myself- unlike those that want the government to raise they children from daycare to retirement.

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“The Reagan-era law requiring emergency rooms to treat patients regardless of ability to pay still stands as de facto acceptance that health care is a right.”

This is the problem. As long as this law is on the books nothing but a mandate will resolve the issue of ME paying for YOUR hospital and doctor bills.

In effect the Reagan Law is a “single payer system”. Do not buy insurance, get sick, go to the hospital and your bills will be paid.

To get around this problem Heritage Foundation, Gingrich, Governor Romney and several Republican bills over the years have said that the mandate is the only solution.

Here is a little lesson in “mandate history” for all you youngsters who do not remember the discussion.

Here is a quote from the Heritage Foundation’s Oct. 2, 1989 article “Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans” by Stuart M. Butler: This is the start of the serious discussion of the mandate to resolve health care.

“Society does feel a moral obligation to insure that its citizens do not suffer from the unavailability of health care. But on the other hand, each household has the obligation, to the extent it is able, to avoid placing demands on society by protecting itself…

A mandate on households certainly would force those with adequate means to obtain insurance protection.”

In November 1993 two Republican bills – Consumer Choice Health Security Act (SB 1743) , sponsored by Senator Don Nickles (R-OK) & 24 Republican cosponsors and The Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act (SB 1770), sponsored by Senator John H. Chafee (R-RI) & 20 cosponsors (2-D, 18-R) were introduced but failed. Both contained a mandate requiring all citizens to participate, (plus SB1770 provided for a religious exception).

In January 2007 The Healthy Americans Act (SB 334) sponsored by Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR) & 17 cosponsors (7-D, 1-I, 9-R) was introduced but failed. This bill also included a mandate and a religious exception. This plan set forth penalties for failure to comply.

And now we have “Obamacare”. The Democrats finally passed the Republican health care plan.

But anyone paying attention just knew that when Bush’s Medicare Part D plan, the first new entitlement in 38 years, passed in 2003 that some type of universal healthcare would pass Congress within a decade.

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Why don’t we deal with costs first? That’s the core of the problem. Instead of spending trillions on insurance plans to fatten the insurance industry, why don’t we use the money to flood the country with medical schools? And don’t tell me we don’t have citizens who can qualify for admission. We have PhD candidates in other fields who can run intellectual rings around most of the physicians in practice today. Right now, you can’t even get into a medical school without a letter of recommendation from a licensed physician—again, the medieval craft guild at work.

Let’s work on the supply of medical services, which is currently the core of the problem. Strangely, you’ll hear a lot of free enterprisers on here who demand to let the market work in other areas. But you won’t hear a peep from them about the artificial constraints now imposed on the medical industry.

Not all physicians have to earn hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. We’re perfectly content to let a college professor with a PhD—a program often more rigorous than most MD programs—earn maybe $75,000.

And I’ll remind you that those people you trust to come up with the ingredients for the annual flu shots and to track and thwart deadly diseases are physicians—and you can bet the federal government isn’t paying them what your GP makes. They’re on a Civil Service scale.

It’s your choice—you can sit around trying to bypass a system that’s driven by costs, or you can work on the costs.

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But you have to admit that if one doesn’t have an alternative one is just mindlessly whining.

Fred–The default alternative plan for any new proposal is to do nothing, to continue with the system you have. And, if doing nothing can be shown to be better than doing something new, then doing nothing–i.e. no plan–is the best course of action. As Jay referenced above, over-reliance on the third-party payment system is what has gotten us in the situation we are, in which medical costs are waaaaay out of line with other normal consumer costs.

Do you think you can ever get away from your immature partisan BS and think for yourself for a change??

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Under your theory, I acting as a single consumer without access to those experts, etc., will have more power to force insurance companies to lower costs than does Cox Enterprises

Hey Jay- you may want to google PEOs- they do the same thing for small employers

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Everyone has to see the humor in the situation.

We have a former constitutional lawyer possibly has signed into law something unconstitutional.

Also if the mandate and/or the law is deemed unconstitutional, will the justices borrow Nancy Pelosi’s gavile or is she going to cry and take her football and go home?

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I read talking points, generalities, sound bites and theory. Nothing specific.

If anybody has an answer to ‘what then?” I’d love to hear it. Haven’t heard ‘it’ for two years and November’s fast approaching. Time’s running out to convince voters Republicans actually have a practical idea on the subject.

Paul–I’ve been putting up practical suggestions for the longest time. See Oldtimer’s 12:07 for some of the ideas.

But keep up the partisan BS, why don’t you, and you’ll end up with about as much credibility as Fred.

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Don’t provoke me.

http://imgur.com/gFD5o

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Bruno – “And, if doing nothing can be shown to be better than doing something new, then doing nothing–i.e. no plan–is the best course of action.”

Agreed. However, if a party derides a plan under the auspices of replacing it, then it is only appropriate that said party would have an alternate plan to present. In this case, the Republicans say that Obamacare needs to be “Repealed and Replaced”. By making that statement it inherently dictates that there is a Republican plan that can be used as a comparative to Obamacare. If the Republicans think that doing nothing is the correct course of action, then they should simply say that they have no workable plan and do not intend to offer one as their solution.

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‘You know what’s sad?’

That if we had a robust economy where employers were competing for workers, this would not even be an issue.

The economy is the overriding factor that needs to be addressed.

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Private = good vs govt = bad is getting so tiresome and old.

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OK, just from that headline, it’s time to start a Secret Service file on Mr. Bookman :-0

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Is healthcare a right? Healthcare is provided by other individuals. Do you have a right to other individuals’ education, skills and labor? I feel you do not.

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Aquagirl

Don’t provoke me.

—————————————

I ain’t skeerd of you.

You suffer from depth perception anyway.

Anyone who thinks 3 inches is 6 inches isn’t dangerous. SWING AND A MISS

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I should be voting Republican to keep my sweet deal alive…but I have a conscience, and I don’t want to live in armed gated communities while the rest of the country devolved into a 4th world nightmare.

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Oblama and his wife got rich off of class action law suits – mostly related to civil rights. More power to them. That was not meant to be criticism. Guess that is honest work. Just pointing out he has no background in health care – I do. Of course he has advisers – unfortunately they all believe that more and more layers of government is the answer to everything. I understand what you are saying about people going to E.R.s for a cold, etc. and agree that they should be going to an out patient clinic instead. The whole idea of a Fed run healthcare system is what I don’t agree with – not just mandated insurance. The Fed is to inept – costs will only go up.

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Usually, when both sides of partisan hacks hate something like this bill, it is usually pretty good.

russia is smacking willard around like a puppy peeing on their carpet.

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Thomas – “100% false- may want to google historical crude prices. Strong relationship with the US$ which is being destroyed by current policy”

Great, for a moment I mistook you for one of those “drill here, drill now, pay less” pinheads.

At least you acknowledge that more drilling by private enterprise will do nothing to lower gas prices exclusively for the U.S..

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oblama

“Oblama and his wife got rich off of class action law suits – mostly related to civil rights.”

Really? And all this time I thought you did nothing but organize communities and serve in Illinois state governments and didn’t get rich ’till you wrote a book.

And why do you refer to yourself in the third person? Are you a secret Bob Dole fan?

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oblama – “Oblama and his wife got rich off of class action law suits – mostly related to civil rights.”

Seriously, I’ll need you to provide support for this as well as your previous posts. And while your at it, admit that you are actually Mighty Righty and we can all acknowledge you as an idiot and move on with our lives.

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Steve

March 28th, 2012
12:24 pm

I should be voting Republican to keep my sweet deal alive…but I have a conscience, and I don’t want to live in armed gated communities while the rest of the country devolved into a 4th world nightmare.
++++++++++++++++++++++++

I dunno. I might could. I mean if they let me man the walls and take potshots at the poor people…………..

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After today’s SCOTUS questions, it’s safe to say:

“When Obamacare dies, what’s next?”

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Butch

I’m debating doing a “Drill here, Drill Now” and “Drill Baby Drill” tshirt using the images of the skeletons doing the different sex positions. I may as well try to profit off this upcoming election. I can tackle two issues at once, contraceptives and energy policy.

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I think of the mandate invented by the gop as the ultimate in corporate welfare.

The con sc activists proved they loved corporate welfare with citizen united.

I think they love this corporate welfare bill too.

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I am still so disappointed that the Dems wasted a once in an generation alignment of poltical power on health care reform that seems doomed to be struck down by the USSC. What a waste of a historic presidential election combined with majorities in the House and Senate. So much more good could’ve been done. What a waste.

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DawgDad – “but doing nothing was FAR preferrable to Obamacare.”

Then the GOP needs to change it’s mantra of “repeal and replace” with “repeal and do nothing”. I’m sure it would be a HUGE seller in the General Election.

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Why don’t black people have a problem when a black man kills another black man? This consists of 90% of all African American murders. Interesting…

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Intown

March 28th, 2012
12:35 pm

I am still so disappointed that the Dems wasted a once in an generation alignment of poltical power on health care reform that seems doomed to be struck down by the USSC. What a waste of a historic presidential election combined with majorities in the House and Senate. So much more good could’ve been done. What a waste.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I dunno, Bill Clinton squandered a pretty good chance to do something. He had the House and Senate and even after he lost them, the Republicans would work with him.

I think he had the best chance to do great things of any President in my lifetime and all he was interested in was doing interns.

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Woodstock Mike – Really?? How many black men shoot unarmed black men and then the police let them get off scott free? I’m waiting…

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Oh look. Woodstock Mike finally sobered up from the weekend and is regaling us with his wisdom………..

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“In the two years since ObamaCare was signed into law, congressional Republicans have campaigned on a policy of “repeal and replace.” In truth, they have made no real attempt to do either.”

The obvious reason is because the Dem Senate and Obama have no interest in anything the Rs will propose.

“The philosophy seems to be that if people are forced to pay out of their own pockets for health care, instead of relying on other parties to pay for it, market forces will once again come into play and the health-care market will begin to behave more like the market for wheat or automobiles.”

“Theoretically, it makes sense. But people don’t live theoretically’

There’s nothing theoretical about it sir. If people have to pay more for medical services directly out of their pocket as opposed to a 3rd party paying for it the indifference to the true cost of medical care will decrease. As will costs.

“The Reagan-era law requiring emergency rooms to treat patients regardless of ability to pay still stands as de facto acceptance that health care is a right.”

No sir. It does not mean it is a right. What it means is that as a compassionate nation that we will treat someone in an emergency situation and not just let them die in the ER. It doesn’t mean that we should be on the hook for paying for everyone’s routine care such as doc visits, routine drugs, etc.

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mike proves that this issue to too complicated for our cons to opine.

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Everyone who’s talking about car insurance…the main difference is that is a STATE requirement….Obamacare has a FEDERAL requirement. From a constitutional perspective, the federal government is supposed to have limited powers.

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Really?? How many black men shoot unarmed black men and then the police let them get off scott free? I’m waiting…

This comment above shows the incredible stupidity of the author. Try there are hundreds and hundreds of unarmed black people killed each year by other black people and nobody was arrested. Wake up man or don’t speak.

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If ObamaCare is repealed, I think it actually helps the dems in this election. This whole thing started with rising health care cost and the amount of people without insurance. What have the repubs done to help that? The Dems at least have tried. This country has to do something about its citizenry. We cannot allow only the rich to have insurance and that is what is happening. Doing something is FAR better than doing nothing. I cannot stand around and watch people die because they lack insurance. This IS NOT what America is about.

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Oblama

Since all your thoughts are yours than back up your Obama making money off of lawsuit BS………

Thought so….

Problem with all you thoughts being yours…… they are almost always void of fact

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Steve

March 28th, 2012
12:39 pm
Woodstock Mike – Really?? How many black men shoot unarmed black men and then the police let them get off scott free? I’m waiting…

Steve,

Happens all the time sir. The no-snitch attitude in many a tough inner city neighborhoods means that rather than cooperate with the cops to solve a black on black murder that the folks in the hood would rather just let the crime go unsolved. Its only when a white Hispanic man shoots a black teen that they get all outraged. I wonder why that is? Could it be…. reverse racism?

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At least you acknowledge that more drilling by private enterprise will do nothing to lower gas prices exclusively for the U.S..

????? No simpy pointing our your false statements

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fred,

I do remember.

We stopped the party to watch SNL every Saturday night then went back to partying.

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TD

Your comment to Steve is not while having some merit, isn’t what Woodstock posted…………

You can take that tangent and run with it, but it isn’t what Steve was replying too

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“If individuals can go without insurance as long as they’re healthy, then force the insurance companies to cover them when they get ill, the whole concept of insurance goes out the window.”

Exactly, Jay. You should buy insurance BEFORE you get sick – not after. You can’t drive uninsured – then buy a policy after a wreck – and expect the insurer fix it. You have to buy the policy before the wreck.

Same thing with health insurance.

You can’t go uninsured till you get diagnosed with cancer, then buy a policy & expect the company to pay.

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If Trayvon Martin was murdered in cold blood Zimmerman will face life in prison. If it’s found that Trayvon Martin was beating Zimmerman’s face in and smashing his head against the concrete he will get man slaghter.

You can’t go around smashing people’s faces into concrete or you may get shot.

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The Left has set some bad precedent during their Pelosi tenure.

When [if] the Right takes over following this November, the Left might not enjoy seeing sweeping legislation getting passed via reconciliation or appointments made out-of-session.

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I’m wondering what ever happened to the case of the hate crime that was committed a couple of months back where the black guys beat up the gay guy for being gay. Those guys definitely should have been charged with a federal hate crime…I love how these stories are so big and then they just go away and no one ever hears about them again.

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So Rickster, what do we do with a child born with juvenile diabetes? Leave it in the street to die when the child turns 18?

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Obama is over

March 28th, 2012
12:54 pm

Joe Cool Thug @ 11:35 VERY MUCH INTENDED TO BE FACTUAL
My information is from the lead editorial in the Wall Street Journal 3-22-12
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You mean from Rupert Murdoch? Ok yeah, I believe THAT to be unbiased and factual…………..

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“The White House is even organizing demonstrations during the proceedings, including a “prayerful witness” circling the Supreme Court.”

Guess all those who are opposed just showed up on their own……. No coordination from any right leaning groups. They are individually said lets go to Dc and stand outside of the court

mmmmmmmmmmmm

Great info

And to think, the poster laughed at another for where they obtained their news and information

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