If ObamaCare dies, what then?
It’s June, and the heart of ObamaCare, the individual mandate, has just been struck down by the Supreme Court in a 5-4 vote.
What now?
In discussions today, the justices will hear debate about whether they can kill the mandate and leave the rest of the legislation intact, or whether the entire structure comes tumbling down without the mandate.
That legal debate aside, as a practical matter I think it’s clear that without the mandate, insurance companies cannot be required to cover pre-existing conditions, which goes to the heart of what health-insurance reform is supposed to achieve.
If individuals can go without insurance as long as they’re healthy, then force the insurance companies to cover them when they get ill, the whole concept of insurance goes out the window. It is no longer sustainable. That’s precisely why the Heritage Foundation, Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney, among others, embraced and pushed the mandate approach.
So again, what happens if the mandate disappears?
In the two years since ObamaCare was signed into law, congressional Republicans have campaigned on a policy of “repeal and replace.” In truth, they have made no real attempt to do either.
If the court rules against ObamaCare, of course, “repeal” becomes moot and attention turns to the “replace” part of the problem. Replace it with what?
As I’ve noted before, when I had the chance to discuss the issue with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and Sen. Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, neither could offer even the slightest idea for how to solve the problem without a mandate. That is also true for the Republican Party as a whole.
What little thinking they’ve done on the issue seems to coalesce around the idea that the problem in health care is third-party insurance, whether acquired through private companies or through the government. The philosophy seems to be that if people are forced to pay out of their own pockets for health care, instead of relying on other parties to pay for it, market forces will once again come into play and the health-care market will begin to behave more like the market for wheat or automobiles.
Theoretically, it makes sense. But people don’t live theoretically. Theory doesn’t explain how a family can pay for one child’s apendectomy and another child’s broken leg out of its own resources. It doesn’t explain how an elderly couple on a fixed income can pay for their medicine and doctor visits. Pristine economic models don’t begin to get us where we need to be.
If ObamaCare is overturned, the fundamental questions that we were all asking three or four years ago will once again come to the forefront:
Is health care a human right, or can it be denied to those who are unable to pay for it? If you want to bring market forces to bear on the problem, you pretty much have to take the second approach. But so far we have been unwilling to embrace it. The Reagan-era law requiring emergency rooms to treat patients regardless of ability to pay still stands as de facto acceptance that health care is a right.
And if health care is a right — if we are not willing to deny health care to those unable to pay for it — how will we as a nation and society cover those costs? ObamaCare attempts to provide an answer to that question. If that answer proves unacceptable to a majority on the U.S. Supreme Court, what’s the next answer?
Come June, that could become a powerful question in a presidential campaign that will be hitting its full stride right about then.
– Jay Bookman
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891 comments Add your comment
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
2:50 pm
AU,
au, meet the Constitution…..Constitution, meet au………my work is done here…….
Paul
March 28th, 2012
2:50 pm
AU Liberal
“. My point, this law has zero affect on those who most oppose it.”
I did read in the paper a few days ago a poll which stated the majority of those opposed to the mandate had health insurance.
They just didn’t like the idea they would be told they had to have it.
Great way to evaluate policy -
Don't Forget
March 28th, 2012
2:52 pm
stands for decibels
March 28th, 2012
2:38 pm
Don’t Forget @ 2.13, I think you should add to that list:
Why are we the only country not named “New Zealand” to permit the direct marketing of prescription drugs to consumers?
Can you elaborate a little? I don’t want to endorse or condemn an idea until I know what exactly we’re talking about.
Paul
March 28th, 2012
2:52 pm
Brosephus
Thanks. It’s about what I expected.
They’re kinda like the Republicans in Congress. They all complain and only one comes up with an alternative.
They BOTH suck
March 28th, 2012
2:53 pm
Except for Bruno’s suggestions, we have very little dialogue on what “repeal and replace” means……. Many, many Republicans are on record saying this or something close to it… Where is the “replace” part? There is a plan, right?
I guess we can say that Republicans to an extent were playing their constituency as much as their constituency claims Obama and the Democrats play theirs
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
2:54 pm
Paul @ 2:47
Bruno
March 28th, 2012
2:55 pm
I can’t help it. Forgive me for continuing to poke at you about it. I’ll probably do it all the way until the SCOTUS ruling is made public.
No problem, Bro. That’s what discussion is all about. A lot of back and forth, a little rib poking.
On the other hand, accusing every conservative here of being a Rushbot, as Fred does with virtually every post, does not constitute discussion IMO. Nor do Paul’s and others’ demands that every discussion center on Democrat successes or Republican failures since that is all Jay prints. Pretty funny how Paul rejects any attempts at context when Republicans are being criticized, yet immediately tries to deflect the conversation to his perceived lack of Repub ideas once the ACA is in the spotlight.
Which is why you are in the Blog Brotherhood, Brosephus, but Fred and Paul will never be even considered.
oblama
March 28th, 2012
2:56 pm
JT – what? You are joking – right? Katrina was a natural disaster – New Orleans was warned years in advance of what could happen if the dikes weren’t enforced but the City government and the state government did nothing. That was a state responsibility.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
2:57 pm
Paul @ 2:52
Guess the conservatives here are more like their elected officals than we give them credit for.
———————-
“I guess we can say that Republicans
to an extentwere playing their constituency as much as their constituency claims Obama and the Democrats play theirs”I don’t think there was any other intent.
Paul
March 28th, 2012
2:59 pm
Bruno
“Nor do Paul’s and others’ demands that every discussion center on Democrat successes or Republican failures since that is all Jay prints. ”
If you discern the pattern, I reserve that for those whose first post is wildly off the topic. I myself have oftentimes gone off into other areas AFTER addressing the topic.
godless heathen©
March 28th, 2012
2:59 pm
Bernie:
FYI. Motels are already required to provide the means for handicapped people to access their pools, they are just not permanent installations. Due to the cost of the new requirements, many will close their pools, so the disabled vets you are so concerned about will have less access. Happy?
stands for decibels
March 28th, 2012
3:00 pm
Can you elaborate a little? I don’t want to endorse or condemn an idea until I know what exactly we’re talking about.
Once upon a time, the US, like every other civilized nation on the planet, thought it was kind of irresponsible to allow pharmaceutical companies to directly advertise prescription drugs to potential users.
Then the FDA loosened restrictions on such things, and, well…
See also:
http://www.kff.org/rxdrugs/6084-index.cfm
Oscar
March 28th, 2012
3:00 pm
ul
March 28th, 2012
2:44 pm
Hi Brosephus
Anybody opposed to the individual mandate and/or the health care bill in general have any specific recommendation on with what it should be replaced?
I just gotta ask the question -
_________
The alternative is government health care paid for out of tax funds or medicare for all. The states could also build more public hospitals like Grady and health care centers to take care of people who can’t afford health insurance.
They BOTH suck
March 28th, 2012
3:00 pm
Oblama @ 2:56
Great point, but are you purposely or for political sake not mentioning the role of the Army Corp of Engineers that play a huge role with those very dikes you mention
If Army Corp Of Engineers and the Fed level didn’t come into play……… wouldn’t be any issue with AL & Fl with Lake Lanier…… would there?
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2012
3:02 pm
” New Orleans was warned years in advance of what could happen if the dikes weren’t enforced but the City government and the state government did nothing. That was a state responsibility.”
No, they aren’t. They are owned and maintained by the Corps of Engineers, which is Federal…and they WERE warned they would not hold up to a 100 year event. And they didn’t
Oscar
March 28th, 2012
3:02 pm
The health care bill would survive without the mandats. Maine has outlawed preexisting conditions clause and they still have health insuance there.
Paul
March 28th, 2012
3:03 pm
“Pretty funny how Paul rejects any attempts at context when Republicans are being criticized, yet immediately tries to deflect the conversation to his perceived lack of Repub ideas once the ACA is in the spotlight. ”
Nonsense. Your ignorance is on full display.
“yet immediately tries to deflect the conversation to his perceived lack of Repub ideas once the ACA is in the spotlight. “”
That’s the topic. As Brosephus pointed out, you’re about the only one who offered anything halfway original. Are you suggesting Brosephus provided inaccurate information and a host of bloggers have provided alternative suggestions?
Your last sentence sounds a lot like when you first showed up here. “It’s my club and I get to decide who’s in it.” You’d gotten away from that Dirty Harry (a previous blogger) personna. You should really consider not returning to it.
getalife
March 28th, 2012
3:04 pm
odrama,
Wrong as usual.
William
March 28th, 2012
3:06 pm
“So, based on his past, he’s playing the race card today by addressing a problem…Since he WAS a member of the Black Panthers, anytime he speaks upon something involving race, he’s playing the race card.”
It gets to motive. Baring a profound conversion of some sort, people’s past behavior is a good predictor of present behavior. He is also a politician. Maybe he truly wasn’t playing the race card, but neither you or or know for sure. We have different impressions. I don’t know if we can determine the truth absolutely.
“Black on Black crime is a problem, but it never amounts to much until people outside the community want to use it as some statistic that Blacks are criminals or something to that effect.”
Huh? No me, brother. I would very much like it to be solved
“Profiling is one thing, acting on that prejudice is something entirely different. Unlike most, I don’t allow my prejudices to override my actions or even my common sense. After seeing some of the things I’ve seen in life and meeting some of the people I have, I have very few worries about what somebody “might” do based on their appearance.”
That is just a long about way of saying most people aren’t all that dangerous. Who doesn’t know that? But an Uzzi (or a jet plane flying into your building) will kill you in the blink of an eye and ours is arguably the most violent nation on earth. People also know this and have become increasingly vigilant. And unlike you, they are a bit worried.
But you didn’t address one of my main points: dressing like a gangster is not comparable to dressing like, say, a punk (a white “fashion”). Both evoke fear in others, but the punks were never as a whole murderous (though they were destructive, rude and the like). You seem to think people should simply ignore their fears that teenage gangsta “wannabes” might actually be gangsters. But I bet, at the same time, you think it wrong and offensive and threatening for some white guy to be wearing a shirt looking like a confederate flag and driving a pickup with a bumper sticker that says “The south shall rise again!”
“I am trained and continue to train on how to handle any situation that arises.”
Good for you.
Paul
March 28th, 2012
3:06 pm
Oscar
Thanks. That has a lot of merit. I’ll offer (if I’m reading your post as you intended) that if we had a system for all the states should be off the hook for providing additional Grady-like facilities, which would reduce local taxpayer costs.
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
3:07 pm
…say the black guy had shot and killed an unarmed latino/white guy would you call it racism?
Hello? I never said it was racism to begin with.
Only some of the reactions to this incident.
Further, I wrote yesterday that had the killer been black, I would still be calling for Sanford Police Department heads to role regarding the apparently botched investigation.
Lastly, I wrote that I fully concur with the arch liberal, anti-gun nut governor of Florida, Jeb Bush, when he said, “This law does not apply to this particular circumstance… Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn’t mean chase after somebody who’s turned their back.” The lack of arrest doesn’t make sense to me… You’ve got to let the judicial process work. Hopefully it’s done at a pace that is respectful for people hurting.”
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2012
3:07 pm
…while all the greater majority in this age group need only catastrophic insurance…
Now we’re getting somewhere.
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
3:11 pm
it all leads to an extraordinary attempt at a powergrab by a radical political party that is about to be shot down by the Constitution………i love the way our system of gov’t is set up and works……..what is playing out is precisely what our founding fathers envisioned, a system of checks and balances that will restrain tyranny and command a limited gov’t………that is our future, limited gov’t and a reduction of the fed’s tentacles in many things that don’t require it’s intrusion….. and that is what the republicans offer the american people this fall……..the left want bigger gov’t, more gov’t and the country is moving away from that mindset………moderate dems are shifting as we speak……..enjoy your day jay
William
March 28th, 2012
3:13 pm
“It all leads to an extraordinary attempt at a powergrab by a radical political party that is about to be shot down by the Constitution…”
I hate to break the spell for you BB, but the truth is the Constitution has been subverted by all branches of the government for almost as long as we have been a nation. That is the sad, ugly truth.
getalife
March 28th, 2012
3:13 pm
bilbob,
You cons said the same thing about SS.
It passed.
Brace yourself.
ObamaCare will pass too.
They BOTH suck
March 28th, 2012
3:14 pm
“moderate dems are shifting as we speak……..enjoy your day jay”
Wow……………. Anything can change, but reality as of today……. not your friend
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-pulls-front-romney-santorum-key-states-quinnipiac-105729939.html
Enjoy your day as well
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2012
3:16 pm
Powergrab… subversion… ugly truth. Stay tuned for the next exciting chapter from Tom Clancey’s exciting new thriller, “Rulers of the Universal Healthcare.”
getalife
March 28th, 2012
3:16 pm
Our President is polling well.
Impressive.
William
March 28th, 2012
3:18 pm
“Powergrab… subversion… ugly truth. Stay tuned for the next exciting chapter from Tom Clancey’s exciting new thriller, “Rulers of the Universal Healthcare.”
Ah…the class clown has made an appearance. How’s that GPA doing?
Paul
March 28th, 2012
3:18 pm
Brosephus
Correction to an earlier post. It isn’t just Ryan making recommendations. My Congressman, Rep (Dr) Michael Burgess, is founder of the Congressional Health Care Caucus. He’s done quite a bit on formulating policy to enact if all or part of ACA is struck down. I’d posted, several months ago, a video of his in which he described the crisis our health care system would be in if the individual mandate was not if force.
Yes, he is a Republican.
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
3:19 pm
no spell here william……….all that you speak of has led to this moment, this decision………we are at a point where any further movement to the left and our country will be ‘fundamentally changed’ like obama said he wanted……….the future of the country is toward liberty and limited gov’t my friends an that is the only option we have left……….
oblama
March 28th, 2012
3:20 pm
An engineer showed a computerized model, on C-Span, that he had shown to the Governor, state representatives and the mayor of New Orleans a few years before the actual tragedy took place. The model actually showed what would happen if a category III, or greater hurricane struck New Orleans. In the simulation the water flooded over the dikes and destroyed the city. His advice to them was to increase the height of the dikes and reinforce them. The cost of doing that would have been the responsibility of the state and city. It would cost millions and they decided not to act. This is what the engineer said took place. He had proof that they had met with him and he had the computer model. He was trying to warn them. He did not mention the Corp of Engineers.
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
3:21 pm
keep hanging on libs……nov 7th might hurt a little……
Bruno
March 28th, 2012
3:21 pm
Except for Bruno’s suggestions, we have very little dialogue on what “repeal and replace” means……. Many, many Republicans are on record saying this or something close to it… Where is the “replace” part? There is a plan, right?
Again, TBS, just because the Democrat plan is a comprehensive, top-down, government-generated plan doesn’t mean that Republican ideas have to take the same form. I think much of what ails our health care system, namely out of control costs, could be well-addressed by a consumer “revolution”, which is a non-comprehensive, bottom-up, non-government generated approach.
Once upon a time, the US, like every other civilized nation on the planet, thought it was kind of irresponsible to allow pharmaceutical companies to directly advertise prescription drugs to potential users.
sfd–Far more egregious, IMO, is the practice by which the pharmaceutical companies give direct kickbacks to MDs for prescribing certain brand-name drugs. Add getting rid of that shenanigans to my list of “bottom-up” solutions.
William
March 28th, 2012
3:22 pm
“no spell here william……….all that you speak of has led to this moment, this decision………we are at a point where any further movement to the left and our country will be ‘fundamentally changed’ like obama said he wanted…”
Well, as it stands now, the Constitution is like an NBA rule book. It defines, say, travelling as taking more than two steps before taking a shot. The referees are like our federal government, which allows 3 or 4 steps most of the time.
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
3:23 pm
jay,
was the rep on the house floor using bad ethics? fun…….
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 28th, 2012
3:23 pm
Bernie
March 28th, 2012
2:46 pm
Allen West Is Upset About Rule Allowing Handicapped Access To Commercial Swimming Pools in Florida.
“Will someone inform Rep.West (R) that as a result of the injuries sustained by our troops in both “WAR” theaters that we “NOW” have over 15,000 Vets that have at least one or more limbs that are missing. So, if any of them decide to go to Florida for a vacation or weekend trip. The Hotel they are staying in will have pools that are accessible with handicap lifts to allow them some semblence of a normal Life”
Bernie,
As usual your profound ignorance suprasses your old stratospheric level of unadulterated ignorance.
There are plenty of vets missing only 1 limb that have no problem getting into a pool without aid of a lift. Its only the ones missing 2 legs that this issue addresses.
Secondly your mind doesn’t seem to understand just how expensive the cost of adding these lifts are. They are $5k to 10K as I understand it and in many pools around the nation there are pools that may never even have a completely disabled person there to use the lifts. A very expensive cost to benefit a tiny fraction of the U.S. population.
And the last problem is that many a swim league that can’t comply with the burden of adding a new lift would simply disband due to the prohibitive cost of complying with the act. But then people like you who think money just grows on trees don’t give a shyte do you? Bottom line is that the cost not just in terms of money but in terms of swim leagues lost, pools having to close because they can’t afford to comply, etc. vastly exceeds the fraction of Americans that would benefit from such an expensive undertaking.
Your points are so absurdly asinine that I don’t even know why you bother to post.
Oscar
March 28th, 2012
3:24 pm
Paul
March 28th, 2012
3:06 pm
Oscar
Thanks. That has a lot of merit. I’ll offer (if I’m reading your post as you intended) that if we had a system for all the states should be off the hook for providing additional Grady-like facilities, which would reduce local taxpayer costs.
—————————–
I agree. There would be no need for plances like Grady.
Normal, Plain and Simple
March 28th, 2012
3:24 pm
House Budget Makes Zero Mention of Veterans. Eleven billion in cuts.
Recent gains in veterans health care and benefits are under attack. The federal budget is a statement of priorities. In the Rep. Ryan version of the 2013 budget subsequently embraced by Gov. Mitt Romney, the word veteran never appears. The budget proposal runs to 98 pages. Zero mention of veterans. Two protracted conflicts, high veteran unemployment and a multitude of coming home issues and not one mention of veterans in this budget proposal. It clearly states that veterans are NOT a priority. This budget proposal is worse than an empty thanks for your service, an empty thanks would require being mentioned. Veterans did not even make the list of priorities but were ignored entirely. Veterans are essentially being told thanks for nothing, you are on your own. This is absolutely unacceptable. Especially coming from an aspiring commander-in-chief. Continue reading …http://veteransforcommonsense.org/2012/03/22/vcs-gop-budget-ignores-veterans
Although the budget forgets to mention veterans, they remembered to cut 11 billion in programs that are meant to benefit veterans. At Veterans For Common Sense we pledge to remain vigilant protecting our military and veterans rights and benefits. They earned them. We make sure veterans are not forgotten. This year we have already made more than 60 visits to Capitol Hill offices to advocate for veterans. Only 1% have borne the burden of a decade of conflicts and we only ask for a square deal after wards. We are proud to be entering into our second decade fighting for America and her veterans and smart national security positions.
In Other News
Recently VCS staff recently had over 25 office visits with Congressional staff, to dicuss among other things reform of the for-profit education industry. Bad actors in the for-profit education industry have been targeting veterans and service members for their education benefits. Veterans and service members are being misled with manipulative and aggressive recruiting tactics, into believing that they are purchasing a quality educational experience. In reality too many of these schools have insufficient accreditation and academic standards. This is wasting tax payers money and opportunities that our veterans and military have earned, with their blood,sweat and tears. This is outrageous. . Please let your elected officials in Washington know you support these reforms. At the end of the day when our veterans choose to pursue an education they must have the confidence that they are making the right choice. The future prosperity of our country depends heavily on preserving economic opportunities for our veterans. Economic opportunities available to GI’s after World War II created the middle class as we know it. We must protect these opportunities now. These reforms bring standards and accountability, while reducing the incentive to see veterans and military as nothing more than a revenue stream.
http://veteransforcommonsense.org/2012/03/05/vcs-release-endorsement-of-senator-durbins-protect-our-students-and-taxpayerspostact/
Thank you for your support. We cannot continue our work with out it.
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=ACA7FLW5YAPKY
Sincerely,
Patrick Bellon,MPA
Iraq Veteran
Executive Director
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
3:24 pm
But you didn’t address one of my main points: dressing like a gangster is not comparable to dressing like, say, a punk (a white “fashion”).
They are both the same thing. People choose many different reasons for dressing as they do. Are you familiar with the term “down low brother”? If not, that term designates a brother who pretends to be heterosexual while all the while carrying on in homosexual relations behind closed doors. Some of them dress in baggy pants, hooded shirts, and all other things associated with gang members to keep people from finding out who they really are. When you see baggy pants and such, you see a gangster, whereas when I see that same person, I see something completely different.
It’s all in perspectives. I don’t judge people based on their appearance. I judge based on actions.
But I bet, at the same time, you think it wrong and offensive and threatening for some white guy to be wearing a shirt looking like a confederate flag and driving a pickup with a bumper sticker that says “The south shall rise again!”
I wouldn’t bet if I were you. I don’t get offended by such things. People are entitled to be proud of their heritage. If, on the other hand, a person wearing that shirt is coming at me in a threatening manner with a weapon in their hand, I’m gonna perceive that for what it is and govern myself accordingly. If I’m able to remove myself from that situation, I’ll do it as best as possible. If not, I’ll deal with it as best as I can.
In other words, don’t use your assumptions of Black men to try to judge me and/or my decision making. You’ll end up wrong more than 50% of the time. I grew up in a conservative part of the country and enjoy many of the same things as those “Confederate flag shirt” wearing guys you’re talking about.
William
March 28th, 2012
3:26 pm
“His advice to them was to increase the height of the dikes and reinforce them. The cost of doing that would have been the responsibility of the state and city. It would cost millions and they decided not to act.”
Immaterial. It was Bush’s fault.
godless heathen©
March 28th, 2012
3:26 pm
Bruno:
“On the other hand, accusing every conservative here of being a Rushbot, as Fred does with virtually every post, does not constitute discussion IMO.”
Fred started that crap with me one night and when I told him that I didn’t listen to talk radio he called me a liar. So I don’t bother with him anymore.
saywhat?
March 28th, 2012
3:28 pm
Off topic, but here are yet other specific ways the Republicans are working to kill the economy and kill jobs in blind partisan commitment to conservative dogma.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/29/business/with-bank-teetering-a-bet-on-the-gop-backfires.html
They BOTH suck
March 28th, 2012
3:28 pm
Bruno
Good point. My overall point is that Repubs have talked a plan, but have done little to walk a plan
They had Congress from 94 to 06 and 6 of those yrs Bush was in the WH……… What did they do?
Obama comes along, for right or wrong, and does what he said during his campaign in terms of health care……… He was elected and took action, and anyone who pays attention to the news knows that many Repubs said… “oh wait, oh wait… we have a plan”…… Bill passed and it turned to “repeal and replace”
Where is it?
I’ve never once stated that the ACA is the end all of end all.
I have stated and will state again today, if the SC upholds the current law, Republicans and their constituency need to look in the mirror and complain as much as they will complain about Obama and the Democrats.
If it isn’t upheld…….. again….. “What is the plan”
Peadawg
March 28th, 2012
3:29 pm
““come up with something” is not an answer, Peadawg.” – Neither is forcing everyone to purchase a private product, Jay.
Delayed responses, I know…been a busy day.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
3:30 pm
William
If it helps out a bit, even my Black co-workers sometimes refer to me as a Redneck.
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2012
3:31 pm
Wow. William Tells me off but good. That william really really knows how to hurt a fella. The GPA question just tears me up every time. Is Summa Cum Laude good enough for your standards or were you just clowning around.
William
March 28th, 2012
3:31 pm
“It’s all in perspectives. I don’t judge people based on their appearance. I judge based on actions.”
Well, we draw lines in different places. Dressing a certain way is, in fact, an action. And actions evoke reactions. Appearance matters, plain and simple. One finds that out when job hunting.
They BOTH suck
March 28th, 2012
3:32 pm
godless and Bruno
The generalities, talk point and broad brushes are used by both sides on this board………
I must admit it gets old and tiresome. I probably more than others mention it all the time, but the Freds, Jms, Adams, Mighty Rightys, Sinkwichs, etc, etc can’t seem to get past it……….
Any I mentioned, I apologize if you think you do not fit that category, however I had to insure that I was like Fox and was “fair, balanced and unafraid” in calling out those who come on here with their tired diatribes, regardless of which side
William
March 28th, 2012
3:33 pm
“Wow. William Tells me off but good. That william really really knows how to hurt a fella. The GPA question just tears me up every time. Is Summa Cum Laude good enough for your standards or were you just clowning around.”
Sounds like I hit a nerve. I’ll believe it when I see it.
William
March 28th, 2012
3:36 pm
“If it helps out a bit, even my Black co-workers sometimes refer to me as a Redneck.”
I guess you are not made from the conventional mold, then Brosephus. We cool. I think you are a thoughtful and intelligent contributor here from whom I hope to learn some things.
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2012
3:36 pm
Sounds like I hit a nerve. I’ll believe it when I see it.
It’s called a funny bone and I did not mean to hit yours so hard. It was reflexive.
They BOTH suck
March 28th, 2012
3:37 pm
Bruno
Follow up to my 3:28
I must say that I think Obama used up too much political capital to push the health care law, when we were a down economy………….. Would the economy have been booming if he had not pushed as much for health care, probably not much better……… however I still think he spent a lot of capital while other things could have been addressed…….
But that is just my assessment……………… Does that mean I’m voting for Romney? Well that is another story
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
March 28th, 2012
3:38 pm
Its Obamacare, which regulates the for-profit health insurance industry or
Medicare for All, take your pick. Its 2012. There is no Future in the Past.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
3:39 pm
One finds that out when job hunting.
And that’s the Grand Canyon of assumptions you just made in that all people who dress in baggy pants and hoodies do the same for job interviews. It must really suck to be afraid of people just because of how they dress.
William
March 28th, 2012
3:39 pm
“It’s called a funny bone and I did not mean to hit yours so hard. It was reflexive.”
Wow. That’s some razor-sharp wit there. I succumb and will dare not to cross swords with you again.
Bernie
March 28th, 2012
3:41 pm
Yesterday, The georgia legislature “CAVED” on that lunatic Abortion Bill against the women of Georgia. Today, they abandoned the needless immigration Bill against all foreign born students and directed at the Hispanic community. There are already concerns about the outrageous stand your ground law. Lastly the issues revolving around the LGBT rights. These are signifacant blocs of voters, individually are harmless, but as one voting bloc, their concerns and opinions can no longer be ignored or dismissed.
Something tells me that the Republicans are starting to think about November and well they should!
The damage has been done and in November will be the voters Voices that will be heard.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
3:42 pm
William
I have a question for you based on dress and perceptions. Do you have any fear in entering into financial transactions with people in business suits? Many people I know got robbed big time by people wearing suits back in 2008, with some losing big sums of money from their retirement plans. Would it be justified to view someone in a business suit as a crook based on their actions? What about people working in the financial industry?
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2012
3:42 pm
I’m cool with Medicare for all. I’ll be forced on to it in another 8 years anyway since my retiree insurance plan requires that you take Medicare as the primary coverage once you hit them golden years.
oblama
March 28th, 2012
3:43 pm
JamVet – I did not read your comments yesterday so please accept my apology on that. I don’t know why he wasn’t arrested and it does appear unusual but I wasn’t there. I don’t apologize for my opinion about Oblama… appears to me that he did imply that this is race related by saying the Fed might investigate this as a hate crime. Maybe he knows more about this than me? He should be asking for calm and justice but he should be condemning those after vigilante justice. Like I said, regardless of color, if they murder anyone try ‘em and fry ‘em.
William
March 28th, 2012
3:44 pm
“And that’s the Grand Canyon of assumptions you just made in that all people who dress in baggy pants and hoodies do the same for job interviews.”
No, the “Grand Canyon of assumptions” is thinking I was never a teenager and have never had them myself (yes, Hispanic gangsta wannabes). Many teenagers do not understand how much appearance matters. Or are you going to dispute that as well?
“It must really suck to be afraid of people just because of how they dress.”
Uncalled for and demeaning. Do you really want to go there?
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2012
3:44 pm
Wow. That’s some razor-sharp wit there. I succumb and will dare not to cross swords with you again.
Okay.
Oscar
March 28th, 2012
3:45 pm
In an ideal world, at least to me, the employer would be complegely out of the heath insurance providing business, and everyone would buy the type of plan they wanted in the open market. Get a major medical, high deductible, low premium plan if you want it.
Pass a law that you can’t be dropped if you get sick.
Then people with preexisting conditions could change jobs, get fired, start their own businesses, without losing their insurancc coverage.
That does not have a chance of getting implemented, but it would work.
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2012
3:46 pm
Watch out for those slick dressers in their business suits. That Stanford fella Made Off with a fortune before he was brought down and there are plenty more out there just as scummy.
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
3:46 pm
One finds that out when job hunting.
No doubt.
And exactly why I jumped all over the corporal for linking that irrelevant diatribe the other night about tattoos and picks in the hair exposed butt cracks while going to job interviews.
And when I challenged him to explain what ANY of that had to do with the topic at hand – Trayvon Martin waling up home from the convenience store with his hood up in the drizzle – he skedaddled like a scalded dog.
And to this day, has never manned up about it.
And I know that some of you have desperately tried to convince yourselves that there is absolutely no racism among the right wing bloggers here, but if I didn’t know better I’d say relying on moronic, ill-placed stereotypes is the epitome of racism…
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
3:46 pm
Bruno
March 28th, 2012
2:02 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Nice analysis. Thank you.
I;m not saying I agree with it or even like it, but I think the American people as a *majority* have decided that health care is a “shared expense” as you put it.
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2012
3:48 pm
Oscar at 3:45,
That’s been tried. It don’t work. You gotta put some meat on them bones in order to get insurance companies to play along.
sam
March 28th, 2012
3:50 pm
then the GOP suggests it again and it becomes a great idea! oh, did i mention that obama is a socialist
William
March 28th, 2012
3:50 pm
“I have a question for you based on dress and perceptions. Do you have any fear in entering into financial transactions with people in business suits? Many people I know got robbed big time by people wearing suits back in 2008, with some losing big sums of money from their retirement plans. Would it be justified to view someone in a business suit as a crook based on their actions? What about people working in the financial industry?”
A business suit to me is no guarantee that someone is good, noble or honest. Is that what you are asking? And I am fully aware that people trying to make money are often motivated by greed, the root of much evil. So I am very wary of such people. I don’t usually fear they are going to shoot me dead, however, so I don’t have the same level of concern. I guess you take me for a simpleton, which may or may not reflect well upon you.
John Birch
March 28th, 2012
3:50 pm
Paul – If the goal is some level of universal health care at an affordable price the answer is socialist single payor system with death panels.
We have become so pathetic that we allow elected representatives to determine how out health care/insurance will work while we pay for a much better plan for them!
The only thing worse about this mess is that we will now allow one man, presumably Justice Kennedy, to determine the future of healthcare for us all!
Oscar
March 28th, 2012
3:50 pm
TaxPayer
________
right, neither the Unions or the insurance companies would go along with it.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
3:50 pm
Uncalled for and demeaning. Do you really want to go there?
I’m only going off of what you’ve posted. Based on your posts, you perceive the way a person dresses as an indication of how that person acts. Based on that dress, a person who dresses like a thug, is perceived as a thug and that would be a person to fear or be wary of. I don’t agree with that, and that’s why I made that statement. If I read your posts wrong, then feel free to correct me. I don’t mind constructive criticism if I’m wrong.
Like you, I’ve dressed different ways, and I still dress that way to this date. What I wear has no bearing on who I am underneath those clothes. Sometimes, I intentionally wear things that would cause people to perceive me as a threat just to point out how they allow their prejudices to override their thinking and logic. I’m not one to lead a rowdy protest, but I have no problem in pushing people to think outside their comfort zones. That’s how we evolve as people.
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
March 28th, 2012
3:51 pm
“appears to me that he did imply that this is race related by saying the Fed might investigate this as a hate crime.”
Let me see your transcript of this quote or video por favor.
Oscar
March 28th, 2012
3:52 pm
John Birch
_________
Ain’t democracy a b. sometimes it all comes down to one vote.
Cosby
March 28th, 2012
3:52 pm
First, Health Care is not a right…please tell me where it states in the constitution or any of the founding fathers papers that it is a “RIGHT”. Second, The government has proven, by Medicare and Medicaid that they are uncapable to running health care – cost, abuses etc. Third, the idea that anyone can receive any type of health care is driving up the price for those poor souls who work and slave all day can pay for it – the above aids this as well. Prescription drugs are costly as the government protects them but just look at the ads during prime time and wonder who is paying for the ads. – the poor souls who have to purchase them. see what happens when the government is involced. Can the system be improved, sure and it needs to be addressed and addressed with reasoning and not political ideology. Once again Jay, you play the ideology that the government is the answer and in reality the government is the problem…but I believe Obama aka Barry will get around to telling you your job is only worth a $10,000 a year….
Paul
March 28th, 2012
3:53 pm
Well, I’m 15 minutes in to today’s oral argument and plaintiff attorney Clement is having a tough time. I must say, either I’m missing something or the talking heads on tv aren’t communicating their points very well – yesterday all I heard was how the Supremes were skeptical on the question of whether or not the gov’t could create commerce to regulate it. What I heard, quite a bit after those questions, were the Supremes telling council “I’m surprised you didn’t agree, as that’s the history of government and commerce… ” and then they cited cases to support it.
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
March 28th, 2012
3:54 pm
The best thing that could happen for the Democrats is this law getting
struck down. And the Foolish 5 Republicans know it. So they’re gonna
try the sneakyweasel way & just can the mandate, strictly on party lines.
This SC is a joke, and History has already recorded that.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
3:54 pm
William
I don’t take you as a simpleton. I am simply trying to understand your thought process. Threats come in all shapes and forms. For me personally, a threat to my financial security is far more worrysome than my physical safety. I can train and train to overcome any issues relating to physical security. The same can’t be said for financial matters. I’m closing in on 40, and I still have time to get my retirement fund together. However, if I lose what I have to date, it’s that much harder for me to make it all back. On the other hand, if something happens to me physically, I have things set up so that my family will be well taken care of financially.
Paul
March 28th, 2012
3:55 pm
John Birch
“If the goal is some level of universal health care at an affordable price the answer is socialist single payor system with death panels.”
I hear the assertion. Can you tell my why death panels are a necessary part of a universal health care system?
And if death panels are necessary, how is one run by the government materially different than what we have now with insurance companies? Seems to me if the end result is the same the difference in process is more a matter of what you want to call it than anything -
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
3:57 pm
On the other hand, accusing every conservative here of being a Rushbot, as Fred does with virtually every post, does not constitute discussion IMO.
Oh bite my ass. I don’t call you a rushbot. But the ones who DO spout the same crap minutes after I’ve just heard it on talk radio and then say it was coincidence? Yeah right. It’s just coincidence although it happens daily, at least 10 times a day. Don’t piss on my back and call it rain.
Which is why you are in the Blog Brotherhood, Brosephus, but Fred and Paul will never be even considered.
Oh gee. I’m crushed. I’m not considered for a double nought, secret agent, decoder ring club. Good. I don’t do elitist snobbery bullshot. Never have and never will. I’ll let you herd animals run in a herd, or you pack animals like jackals run in a pack where ou can nip at the lions heels from behind. I’ll remain a free thinking lion beholden to no one.
Libertarian
March 28th, 2012
3:58 pm
“Further, I wrote yesterday that had the killer been black, I would still be calling for Sanford Police Department heads to role regarding the apparently botched investigation.”
That may be true, but if the killer had been black, this never would have made national news and the president and congress wouldn’t be weighing in on it.
Brosephus™ - Heel nipper since 3:57pm
March 28th, 2012
3:59 pm
Fred
Had to retag thanks to your post.
Bernie
March 28th, 2012
3:59 pm
Good ole George Zimmerman a real stand up guy. Really makes you proud to know that he beats up on the women in his life, then when stopped for a traffic violation while driving drunk and wants to resist arrest from the officer that is trying to get him off the streets. He then chases a kid and shoots him claiming self defencse, no one thinks to do a alcohol breath test nor a alcohol blood test after the event by the local police.
Then we are told by the Sanford police that he is squeaky clean. Hmmmm..I wonder what planet they are from? sounds like a place where many Republicans live.
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
March 28th, 2012
4:00 pm
“Oh bite…… I don’t call you a rushbot. But the ones who DO spout the same crap minutes after I’ve just heard it on talk radio and then say it was coincidence? Yeah right. It’s just coincidence although it happens daily, at least 10 times a day. Don’t piss on my back and call it rain.”
Amen, you island cheatin Fred
Paul
March 28th, 2012
4:02 pm
Cosby
“Health Care is not a right…please tell me where it states in the constitution or any of the founding fathers papers that it is a “RIGHT”. ”
Where does the Constitution say
clean air is a righ
clean water is a right
safe food is a right
safe medicines are a right
expecting products to work as advertised is a right
getting paid for overtime is a right
having a workplace that doesn’t make injury likely is a right
We are talking about the US Constitution, aren’t we?
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
4:03 pm
saywhat,
repub’s killing the economy……….citing ny times…….enough said
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2012
4:05 pm
right, neither the Unions or the insurance companies would go along with it.
Actually they did go along with “it” — ACA. Now, the mandate’s constitutionality is being decided. Without the mandate, the requirements that coverage be provided for preexisting conditions and that premiums not be linked to age or health are gone. The insurance companies want healthy young bodies to offset older more frail ones. They need that just as surely as auto insurers need good drivers to offset bad ones.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
4:05 pm
Brosephus™ – Heel nipper since 3:57pm
March 28th, 2012
3:59 pm
Fred
Had to retag thanks to your post.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Good. You SHOULD. YOU of all people should have the disgust I have for double nought secret clubs and good old boy back room deals. You’ve been lowered in my eyes not that you really care. I had forgotten you were in the “elite” here.
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
4:07 pm
oblama, no worries.
I am not your conventional liberal.
I am tougher on crime that virtually all of the Republicans I’ve ever known.
White collar crime, street crime, ALL of it.
If it was up to me, the Wall Street banksters and the back street gang bangers would all be sharing one big happy cell, broadening their horizons!
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2012
4:08 pm
Ain’t democracy a b.sometimes it all comes down to one vote.
And the Senator from Maine, Snowe I believe, feels your pain.
Paul
March 28th, 2012
4:09 pm
Fred
Just an almost outsider’s opinion (okay, I’m not in the club, either) but I did not see where Brosephus responded one way or another to his inclusion in that post. Sometimes it’s easier just to let some things go in order to keep the dialogue flowing.
William
March 28th, 2012
4:09 pm
“And exactly why I jumped all over the corporal for linking that irrelevant diatribe the other night about tattoos and picks in the hair exposed butt cracks while going to job interviews. And when I challenged him to explain what ANY of that had to do with the topic at hand – Trayvon Martin waling up home from the convenience store with his hood up in the drizzle – he skedaddled like a scalded dog.”
I don’t follow you: on the one hand you concede that appearances matter, but on the other you don’t think they should. They either do or they don’t. If you somehow imagine that people do NOT assess or judge others by appearance, then please tell me what planet you are from. And tell that to the next movie starlet on the red carpet. Should they matter to the extent that you wind up shooting someone who looks bad or suspicious or disdainful of norms? Of course not. But to say flatly that appearance doesn’t matter is to stupidly ignore the factual evidence.
“And I know that some of you have desperately tried to convince yourselves that there is absolutely no racism among the right wing bloggers here, but if I didn’t know better I’d say relying on moronic, ill-placed stereotypes is the epitome of racism…”
I doubt you are in any position to judge whether or not I am racist, smug as you seem to be in your cognisance of things. And to be frank, your opinion of me doesn’t matter. But I am tired of all of the incessant charges of racism leveled at my race or political party because of grievous sins committed in the past which many of us had nothing to do with. So I react now when I think people are playing the race card, because I feel it is yet another attempt to put me in the dog house foe something I never did. Do you get that?
Paul
March 28th, 2012
4:10 pm
TaxPayer
In memory of Bosch, please refer to her as “The Goddess Senator from Maine.”
Casey Kasem
March 28th, 2012
4:10 pm
We have a long distance dedication going out to
Brocephus………………. from one of our fellow bloggers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gJrA6Dj1nM
Until next time…….. keep your feet on the ground but keeping reaching for the stars
Independent Thinker
March 28th, 2012
4:10 pm
We spend over 17% of GDP on health care- higher than other civilized countries and the World Health Organization rated the US as no. 35 on quality of health care- Why? total inefficiency of the system. If the only place the uninsured can go to get free health care is the emergency room does anyone wonder why we are so out of sync with the rest of the civilized countries and why health care cost so much.
My wife has insurance and went to the emergency room for four hours due to a severe stomach ache. After an MRI and a few tests and fifteen minutes with a doctor- guess what the bill was? Over $8,000.00! And this is the system wee want other countries to follow?
And why do employers have to be burdenned with managing their employees health care in the US when they do not have that burden in our competitors countries? Might be a reason companies flee to overseas locations.
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
4:11 pm
Billy, when you start addressing the message in some cogent manner, instead of constantly discounting completely out of hand, with no knowledge of it at all, the information provided, it will a) be the very first time and b) you might actually gain a shred of credibility…
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
March 28th, 2012
4:13 pm
Well, I waited all day for Bookman to change the topic. Far as I’m concerned the ground around Obamacare’s been trampled worse than a campground at a tent revival of Holy Rollers.
Anyhow, looks as tho we’re going to go back to the Free Innerprize medical system where a few people make out like bandits and alot more go without health care till it’s too late. I was reminded of that today at lunch break at WalMart—a few people driving $80,000 cars, like a drunk on the highway will care how much that thing shimmering ahead of him costs, and most driving old beat-up jalopies. I reckon that’s the way God intended things or they wouldn’t be that way.
I won’t hold my breath waiting for any of you to come up with a solution. I guess alot of people are happy to be paying sky-high premiums to cover the cost of all the illegals and Those People showing up at emergency rooms. And the funeral home industry will keep right on booming. I know I won’t live enough years to see Congress take up health care again. It’s OK, I got my health insurance from the job and Medicare in a few years. All I got to say to the people that ain’t got no coverage or will lose what they got is, See ya, wouldn’t want to be ya.
Have a good afternoon everybody.
Bernie
March 28th, 2012
4:13 pm
To the Republican readers, yesterday’s news about Jan “Hanoi” Fonda will play the leading role as PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN (LOL) I mean Nancy Reagan. Surely he is rolling in his grave with that news, for years from now future bloggers will discuss Nancy’s role as acting President because it will be released that during his secod term his illness was worst than reported and she wanted to insure the continuation his legacy. This news will cause a great uproar and discount the many claims of his Lincolnesque type of Leadership. The thought of her in that role makes me roll in fits of laughter and truly appreciate the belief of KARMA!
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
March 28th, 2012
4:14 pm
Jamvet@4:07
When I was at Villanova I had a project about prisons. We toured the inside of County, State and Federal facilities. It seemed odd that a guy stole $40 was in a 4 person per cell crap prison when a guy who steals $4 million is living in a Federal prison in his own cell with his own furniture. The lesson I learned was if I ever became a thief I needed to go big.
Brosephus™ - Heel nipper since 3:57pm
March 28th, 2012
4:14 pm
If I’m elite, that really lowers the bar for being elite here. I am who I am. The only secret club I belong to is the Most Worthy Prince Hall Affiliated Free and Accepted Masons. Other than that, I simply exist with everyone here. I’ve had agreements and disagreements with both sides of the political spectrum here. I’ve even disagreed with Jay. You, of all people, should know that I don’t exhibit clickish behavior here. Never have and never will.
One thing you did get right though, is that in the grand scheme of things, I don’t really care what anybody here thinks about me. I don’t have to lie down next to anybody here, and I don’t see anybody here when I wake up in the morning.