If ObamaCare dies, what then?
It’s June, and the heart of ObamaCare, the individual mandate, has just been struck down by the Supreme Court in a 5-4 vote.
What now?
In discussions today, the justices will hear debate about whether they can kill the mandate and leave the rest of the legislation intact, or whether the entire structure comes tumbling down without the mandate.
That legal debate aside, as a practical matter I think it’s clear that without the mandate, insurance companies cannot be required to cover pre-existing conditions, which goes to the heart of what health-insurance reform is supposed to achieve.
If individuals can go without insurance as long as they’re healthy, then force the insurance companies to cover them when they get ill, the whole concept of insurance goes out the window. It is no longer sustainable. That’s precisely why the Heritage Foundation, Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney, among others, embraced and pushed the mandate approach.
So again, what happens if the mandate disappears?
In the two years since ObamaCare was signed into law, congressional Republicans have campaigned on a policy of “repeal and replace.” In truth, they have made no real attempt to do either.
If the court rules against ObamaCare, of course, “repeal” becomes moot and attention turns to the “replace” part of the problem. Replace it with what?
As I’ve noted before, when I had the chance to discuss the issue with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and Sen. Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, neither could offer even the slightest idea for how to solve the problem without a mandate. That is also true for the Republican Party as a whole.
What little thinking they’ve done on the issue seems to coalesce around the idea that the problem in health care is third-party insurance, whether acquired through private companies or through the government. The philosophy seems to be that if people are forced to pay out of their own pockets for health care, instead of relying on other parties to pay for it, market forces will once again come into play and the health-care market will begin to behave more like the market for wheat or automobiles.
Theoretically, it makes sense. But people don’t live theoretically. Theory doesn’t explain how a family can pay for one child’s apendectomy and another child’s broken leg out of its own resources. It doesn’t explain how an elderly couple on a fixed income can pay for their medicine and doctor visits. Pristine economic models don’t begin to get us where we need to be.
If ObamaCare is overturned, the fundamental questions that we were all asking three or four years ago will once again come to the forefront:
Is health care a human right, or can it be denied to those who are unable to pay for it? If you want to bring market forces to bear on the problem, you pretty much have to take the second approach. But so far we have been unwilling to embrace it. The Reagan-era law requiring emergency rooms to treat patients regardless of ability to pay still stands as de facto acceptance that health care is a right.
And if health care is a right — if we are not willing to deny health care to those unable to pay for it — how will we as a nation and society cover those costs? ObamaCare attempts to provide an answer to that question. If that answer proves unacceptable to a majority on the U.S. Supreme Court, what’s the next answer?
Come June, that could become a powerful question in a presidential campaign that will be hitting its full stride right about then.
– Jay Bookman
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891 comments Add your comment
Oscar
March 28th, 2012
1:38 pm
the real problem
________
Your statement suggest that you live in some fantasy world. People depend on insurance now to meet medicial emergicies they could not otherwise afford. There are two options, health insurance or care paid for by the government out of tax revenues.
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
March 28th, 2012
1:40 pm
“Washington (CNN) — A congressman was removed from the House floor Wednesday after giving a speech about Trayvon Martin while wearing a hoodie.”
GREAT!!!! NOW its the GOPs time to sport their hoodies……….and sheets
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
March 28th, 2012
1:40 pm
lol….agitate, agitate
Attention ALL Republicans on this blog!!
March 28th, 2012
1:40 pm
LabCorp accused of Medicare fraud, under Senate investigation
November 11, 2011 5:43 PM
ShareThis| Print Story | E-Mail StoryMichael D. Abernethy / Times-News
LabCorp is at the center of a Senate investigation to determine whether the Burlington-based laboratory testing company is one of several that might have cheated Medicare and Medicaid out of billions of dollars by rigging deals with insurance companies and doctors.
The allegations came this week as Senators Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., requested LabCorp, three major health insurance companies and one other lab company turn over copies of lab service agreements, contracts and other related documents.
http://www.thetimesnews.com/articles/senate-49620-labcorp-companies.html
They BOTH suck
March 28th, 2012
1:42 pm
Mick
“He’s on his own death march,”
Unless you know something that I don’t, we are all one one……… Some will just get there quicker than others
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 28th, 2012
1:42 pm
Washington (CNN) — A congressman was removed from the House floor Wednesday after giving a speech about Trayvon Martin while wearing a hoodie.
Rep. Bobby Rush, D-Illinois, told House members, “racial profiling has to stop
Man oh man. This is just way too ironical. Bobby Rush represents the South side of Chicago. The same south side that over St. Patties day weekend had 47 shootings, mostly gang related, where 13 or 14 people were killed, including a 6 year old girl who was murdered when her house was sprayed with an AK-47.
So Mr. Rush doesn’t have time to worry about the avalanche of black on black, shootings, murder (including the death of a 6 year old child) and gang activity in his district. But he’s got plenty of time to worry about a questionable shooting some 1500 or so miles away in Florida.
The irony is astonishing. The hypocrisy too.
oblama
March 28th, 2012
1:43 pm
“Oblama” means always blame the other party and never accept responsibility for the inept Fed government that “we” created. By “we” I mean Dems and Pubs. The phrase “Oblama” is not meant to be an insult against the President but has he ever said “Yes, both sides are inept and we need term limits”. Dem solution? Spend your way out of debt. How has that worked for you so far? Oblamacare will simply increase the layers of Fed government ineptness and expense.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
1:44 pm
Bruno
So are you suggesting returning to a non-profit system for insurance, going to a single payer type system, or do you have something else in mind?
Attention ALL Republicans on this blog!!
March 28th, 2012
1:45 pm
My post at 1:38 pm….Please tell me who was the President of the United States during this time frame???
Aquagirl
March 28th, 2012
1:45 pm
If more people basically were better citizens, we would have a lot less problems.
Our new healthcare plan: less hospitals, more Lee Greenwood concerts.
.
oblama
March 28th, 2012
1:46 pm
Kool – your Bipolar disorder is showing. If you need to refill your lithium I can help.
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2012
1:46 pm
So, how goes the con’s claim of coercion before the Supremes? Me thinks the expansion of Medicaid will be upheld because it is either that or the elimination of Medicaid and more in their entirety. Then, we can move on to expanding that Medicare/Medicaid coverage to everyone. It’s a shame we have to take such a roundabout approach to get there though.
William
March 28th, 2012
1:47 pm
“So Mr. Rush doesn’t have time to worry about the avalanche of black on black, shootings, murder (including the death of a 6 year old child) and gang activity in his district. But he’s got plenty of time to worry about a questionable shooting some 1500 or so miles away in Florida. The irony is astonishing. The hypocrisy too.”
I think you are right, TD. Why do politicians play race cards instead or solving racial problems? They are like the Pharisees of old. Even Obama seems to do this in saying if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon – which I assume he knows is not at all certain since he is mulatto.
They BOTH suck
March 28th, 2012
1:47 pm
Oblama @ 1:43
While I do not totally agree, there is some rational thought to your post.
Why the other posts with irrational, unsubstantiated BS?
jms
March 28th, 2012
1:48 pm
Emergency rooms should treat everyone. That’s their responsibility.
Patients should pay their bills. That’s their responsibility. No insurance? You can pay out of your own pocket. No insurance and don’t want to pay? Then let’s deduct it from their wages or whatever government assistance they receive. Sounds fair to me.
JP
March 28th, 2012
1:50 pm
Oblama – Obama himself is term limited – 2 terms at best, maybe only one term. He can’t force term limits on Congress. Even if he suggested it, it is up to Congress to pass that law, and I am not sure Congress will ever get around to doing that – no matter who is in charge.
Talking Head
March 28th, 2012
1:50 pm
Bobby Rush, ex Black Panther. Nuff said.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
1:50 pm
Why do politicians play race cards instead or solving racial problems?
Excuse the frankness, but how in the f**k is wearing a hoodie playing the race card? Damn, I guess pretty soon, anytime a Black man sneezes, he’ll be playing the race card.
Oscar
March 28th, 2012
1:52 pm
jms
________________
It’s logicial and fair. But it is totally not practical. The hospitals and doctors can’t wait on their money. they have to be paid at the time of or shortly after the services are rendered. They could not operate as long term lenders. They could sell the notes without recourse to a bank, but at a very steep discournt. Only practicall way is for government tax revenues or health insurance companies.
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
1:53 pm
regarding specter…..what do you expect from someone who switched political parties more than once based not on honor and integrity in representing those who voted for him, but based on self-preservation and lack of honor and integrity……this man could be the posterchild for what happens to people when they crave power over others….this is how a statist is born and i’m glad we have him and his eithics(for you jay)to expose to all as what we do not want to elect in the future…….please hold this guys statement up and enlighten all to a little bit of your own character…..
oblama
March 28th, 2012
1:53 pm
There you go again blaming Bushy for what happened on HIS watch. That’s like blaming Oblama for what happens on HIS watch. You are a prime Oblama – this problem was created by BOTH sides and didn’t just start with Bushy….the debt has been going up ever since LBJ and Vietnam. 50 + years under Repub AND Dem watch. Can’t make yourself admit that your SIDE is inept too can you? Yes, Bushy AND Oblama are inept but they didn’t start this mess – just made it worse.
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 28th, 2012
1:53 pm
“Kool – your Bipolar disorder is showing. If you need to refill your lithium I can help.”
Well now this may be the one instance where Doomy is in favor of socialized health care. In other words I will gladly chip in 50 cents towards Joe uncool getting his lithium refilled.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
1:53 pm
Damn, I guess pretty soon, anytime a Black man sneezes, he’ll be playing the race card.
Only if he uses a WHITE handkerchief.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
1:53 pm
Term limits are the lazy man’s way of dealing with political ineptness. Instead of focusing on limits, why not actively vote against jackassery? Congress had an approval rating of 9% at one point during this session. I’m willing to wager that the re-election percentage will fall within the historical norms of 80%-90%. As long as the voter refuses to acknowledge the shortcomings of their own representative, nothing will change. Term limits are just an excuse for people not doing their own due dilligence.
William
March 28th, 2012
1:53 pm
“If more people basically were better citizens, we would have a lot less problems.”
Personal irresponsibility is likely the biggest cause of most of our domestic problems. And the government is trying to become a surrogate parent of sorts to address them. It will never work. There are some people, of course, who are needy through no fault of their own. These should be helped unreservedly. But most are lying in the bed they made. These people need a but hand up (if they are willing to change their non-productive behavior), not a hand out.
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
1:54 pm
Talking Head. Nuff said.
Bro, I’m thinking about wearing my hooded NY Yankees sweatshirt to a Chamber of Commerce meeting, just to watch the old white Republican heads explode!
oblama
March 28th, 2012
1:54 pm
KOOL!
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 28th, 2012
1:55 pm
Talking Head,
Bobby Rush ex black panther? You left out his current job description of “idiot extraordinaire”.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
1:55 pm
Billybob
Spector, if anybody else, should have the proper perspective for viewing Romney when it comes to switching positions just to save one’s political ass. I may not agree with Spector on different things, but when it comes to switching to be the flavor of the month, he rings in as a Subject Matter Expert.
Bernie
March 28th, 2012
1:55 pm
Jay is from Pennsylvania and has only lived here since the early 1990’s and for some reason he is of the mindset that people in the South do not understand or unable to distingush his real overtly implied meaning. When in fact people of the South know the real double meaning of such a statement. Over the years, the people of the South have turned word usage into a complex ART form. I suggest a review of the definition of the word Semantic.
“I am sure many of your supporters here, find it quite Humorous”.
Semantic : The study of meaning in language: the study of how meaning in language is created by the use and interrelationships of words, phrases, and sentences.
Youk’n hide de fier, but w’at you gwine do wid de smoke? – Uncle Remus
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
1:57 pm
JamVet
I have one or two in my closet as well. It didn’t get cold enough this winter for me to use them when running. I guess next winter, I’ll have to carry my creds or gun while running in case I need to defend myself. I don’t wanna be mistaken for a burglary suspect running away from the scene.
William
March 28th, 2012
1:59 pm
“Term limits are the lazy man’s way of dealing with political ineptness. Instead of focusing on limits, why not actively vote against jackassery? Congress had an approval rating of 9% at one point during this session. I’m willing to wager that the re-election percentage will fall within the historical norms of 80%-90%. As long as the voter refuses to acknowledge the shortcomings of their own representative, nothing will change. Term limits are just an excuse for people not doing their own due dilligence.”
I don’t know if I agree entirely. Implicit terms limits (by convention) have applied to the presidency since Washington left office after two terms. They were codified after FDR. So the precedent is there. On the other hand, I would agree that it would be nice if everyone did exercise due diligence in voting. Judging from the way companies advertise their products, however, it is a very tall order.
Penny Pincher
March 28th, 2012
2:01 pm
“We cannot allow only the rich to have insurance and that is what is happening.”
There are many working poor that have insurance through their employer. To say only the rich have insurance is dishonest at best.
Misty Fyed
March 28th, 2012
2:01 pm
Brosephus,
As long as you don’t try to smash someone’s head into the ground…You’ll probably be ok.
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
2:01 pm
switching positions on an issue and switching political parties more than once are two totally different things…..specter has lost the credibility to criticize anyone and last i checked he had a D by his name…..i understand your point of takes one to know one but at some point you have to look at the individual and decide if his word carries enough weight on a subject and i just feel that specter’s does not at this point, especially on this point…….
Common Sense isn't very Common
March 28th, 2012
2:02 pm
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
1:57 pm
JamVet
I have one or two in my closet as well. It didn’t get cold enough this winter for me to use them when running. I guess next winter, I’ll have to carry my creds or gun while running in case I need to defend myself. I don’t wanna be mistaken for a burglary suspect running away from the scene.
—————————————
Bro – at your size they would shoot first before yelling ’stop police’
Bruno
March 28th, 2012
2:02 pm
So are you suggesting returning to a non-profit system for insurance, going to a single payer type system, or do you have something else in mind?
Brosephus (and JP from the last page)–I’ve been through this discussion so many times, I’m actually getting tired of repeating myself. And for anyone who knows me and my willingness to repeat myself, that’s saying something.
In order to decide the best, least costly way to administer health care, we must first decide if health care should be a national “shared expense’ like the military or our highway system, an “individual expense”, or some combination thereof. If we decide that health care should be a “right”, i.e. an expense to be shared by all, then single-payer is the only system that makes sense. Although the ACA essentially makes health care a “shared expense”, the mechanism by which it carries out the administration of the plan, i.e. the forced purchase of for-profit insurance, is likely the worst possible solution.
At the other end of the spectrum, if we choose to make health care an individual expense, like food for example, then there are certainly many reasonable steps we can take to restore consumerism to health care such that costs come down to a much more affordable level. Taken individually, or even together, such “pro-consumer” steps do NOT form a top-down, comprehensive, government generated solution, which seems to be the only solution many of you here are willing to consider.
Personally, I favor a mixed approach, in which the poorest among us are guaranteed a basic level of care, with everyone else remaining responsible for their own costs.
independent thinker
March 28th, 2012
2:02 pm
WE will be back to socialized medicine courtesy of Saint Ronnie called EMTALA where everyone gets free medical care regardless of income, eligibility or citizenship if they make it to an emergency room. Those who can pay for insurance and their care but have no coverage get a free ride – Just like Cuba and Communist countries! And those who have insurance will pay the freight. I’d like to see the Supreme Court decision approving Saint Ronnie’s socialized medicine- it is the law. Several illegals with extended care in local hospitals ran up bills in the millions while other patients and the state paid for before they got deported to theiur country of origin- I am sure you Obama haters prefer that to Obamacare. It is shame Saint Ronnie did not pass socialized funeral care so we did not have to worry about that too.
Common Sense isn't very Common
March 28th, 2012
2:03 pm
Besides that we all know that black men don’t jog unless they are running away from somewhere they shouldn’t have been
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
2:04 pm
Bro, I’ve got it!
I have this ultra cool hooded sweatshirt with logos of many of the old Negro League baseball teams – the Atlanta Black Crackers, Baltimore Black Sox, Houston Grays, KC Monarchs, NY Black Yankees, etc.
This thing rocks!
I’d love to find out where a few our right wing bloggers live and park up the street from them and walk to the closest Quickie Mart.
But in case they wanted to go vigilante, they would have a MUCH bigger problem than that Rambo in Florida.
I’m not 17 and I don’t wander around unarmed…
oblama
March 28th, 2012
2:04 pm
Term limits work for the President because we don’t want a dictator. Congress is like a dictator we need to rid ourselves of. Actually, the citizens of the U.S. can vote for term limits without the Fed Congress. I don’t think laziness keeps these guys in office but rather what WE think they will do for us. All politicians promise – all don’t keep their promises.
Oscar
March 28th, 2012
2:05 pm
Personally, I favor a mixed approach, in which the poorest among us are guaranteed a basic level of care, with everyone else remaining responsible for their own costs.
__________
How or what do you define as a basic level of care. Who makes that call?
William
March 28th, 2012
2:06 pm
“Excuse the frankness, but how in the f**k is wearing a hoodie playing the race card? Damn, I guess pretty soon, anytime a Black man sneezes, he’ll be playing the race card.”
Excuse the frankness, but do you know how to follow threads?
Bernie
March 28th, 2012
2:06 pm
Attention ALL Republicans on this blog!! @ 1:22 pm
If you cannot stand the “Heat” stay of the Kitchen is my response to your comment. I will share another one with you.
if you throw a ROCK into a crowd of PIGS, the one that “HOLLARS” is the one you HIT.
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
2:06 pm
jamvet,
is that guy in florida a right wing guy……just curious?
oblama
March 28th, 2012
2:07 pm
There is a conversation going on here that is being participated in by only one side. Have you noticed? The subject today is not about racism. That was yesterday. Don’t worry Jay will have it back soon by YOUR popular demand.
oblama
March 28th, 2012
2:09 pm
The subject today is Oblamacare and why we won’t miss it.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
2:09 pm
switching positions on an issue and switching political parties more than once are two totally different things
Nope. Both things, in the context of campaigns, is a survival mechanism to save your ass. If Romney addressed his changes with a qualifying statement such as, “In light of new information that I was previously unaware of, I am changing my position on this subject just a bit”, then you’d probably have a point. That has not been the case with Romney. Lately, it’s been give statement and change statement when backlash kicks up. He’s trying to save his hide in the primary just as Spector tried to save his hide in Congress.
———————-
Bruno
I want you to keep repeating yourself. There is nothing like hearing somebody with conservative ideals championing a single payer system. I know that’s not your primary choice, if it was yours to make, but you are one of very few conservatives that acknowledge it is one option depending on the course of action we take. That’s why I like to hear you repeat yourself. Maybe you’ll rub some common sense into others around here. We could damn sure use it.
Attack Dog
March 28th, 2012
2:10 pm
1. Anyone who says to “go back to the drawing board,” also are saying that Ryan and Boehner haven’t formulated a real plan in two years. 2. Those who say you could move to a state with a better health plan, also are also validating the commerce clause.
Recon 0311 2533
March 28th, 2012
2:10 pm
Oscar@ 10:36, No I didn’t have my poll results wrong. You did.
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
2:10 pm
when will the liberal/leftist media start blaming the lawyer instead of obama and his unconstitutional obamacare law………..watch for the media giving obama another pass…….should be fun to point out in the coming days……jay, you got anything from media matters for me yet………..too easy
oblama
March 28th, 2012
2:12 pm
You don’t know if the latino/white guy hated black people or is just nuts or if the black guy attacked him first do you? Just an assumption without fact on your part that race was involved. Maybe – maybe not. Oblama is in office and I’m sure he will jump on it.
David Granger
March 28th, 2012
2:12 pm
Then maybe we can start over and do it right, without winking away the Constitution and going through all kinds of complicated twists and turns trying to find a way to ignore it.
Best (and easiest) way is to expand Medicaire to cover everybody.
We would need to raise taxes in order to do so, and to get the public on board with that we would have to:
1. Crack down on Medicaire fraud, and make it a VERY serious crime. 20 years mandatory sentence minimum.
2. Limit coverage to U.S. citizens and legal aliens ONLY. Emergency care for everyone, of course…as is the law now.
3. Cut spending as much as possible. Limit spending to “Have to have” things…not “nice to have”. This will make both liberals and conservatives howl, since both sides pretend that a lot of the “nice to have” stuff is absolutely necessary. (Trying to kick start green energy programs, for example.)
4. No pork for anybody right now. We’re PAST broke…and can’t afford to fund little local projects. If we’re fair across the board, most of the U.S. will accept it.
5. EVERYBODY is included in the new health care plan. NO waivers…not even for unions or politicians.
Don't Forget
March 28th, 2012
2:13 pm
Why do Americans have to pay more for their medications than people in other countries when they are buying them from the SAME companies?
Why is medicare PROHIBITED from negotiating with drug companies over the cost of the drugs. Compare that with medicare reimbursement for services where medicare dictates the rate of compensation?
Why is employer sponsored health insurance not taxed but for someone who buys their own health insurance they can only deduct premiums in excess of 7.5% of their income? This is a clear subsidy of employer sponsored health insurance but I’m not sure the rational. It clearly favors higher income careers.
Why does the CEO of United Healthcare get paid $102,000,000 per year. Is he REALLY worth that much?
Why did the supreme court rule that drug manufacturers can pay makers of generic medications to NOT make the generic medication so that they can preserve their high profit margins long after the cost of R&D have been recovered?
Why do walk in clinics get reimbursed at the same rate as ER’s for certain cases when they have nowhere near the overhead and frequently don’t even have a doctor on premises?
Why are medical device makers able to force hospitals to sign confidentiality agreements with them that prevent anyone to compare the prices of these products from different manufacturers? Why won’t they publish their price lists?
Why do nursing homes require a 3 day hospital stay prior to placement in a nursing home regardless of whether the hospital admission is medically warranted?
Oscar
March 28th, 2012
2:13 pm
Recon:
Here is the link. 85 per cent in 2009 say that we need a fundamental change in out health care system.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/health/policy/21poll.html
GT
March 28th, 2012
2:16 pm
It is a simple question, simple answer. Do we want dead bodies dumped on the streets in this country? There is no real added cost, in fact most observers, more and more, agree the cost of medicine will come down, that argument is off the table. If you don’t pass it you have New Orleans in the Bush administration with dead bodies floating in the streets. Maybe that is what the GOP wanted all along. Private armies protecting the rich as the poor roll in sewer outlets on Main Street. A revolution from within, instead of bullets they cut off the caring and medicine, give death sentences to the uninsured making more room for the fat cats. Maybe New Orleans was just a dress rehearsal of things to come and it went so well they got encouraged. Why else would you deny help to the sick and poor?
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
2:16 pm
Ask Scout and Tom and others here how “suspicious” he was.
More than a few of you right wingers can barely contain your glee that a young black kid was killed.
Jason Giroir used his full name and identified himself as a New Orleans Police Department employee when he wrote, “Act like a thug die like one!” in response to a WWL-TV article about a rally supporting Martin.
So tell me, who are the real thugs? Hint, it wasn’t that kid.
And in your racially pure mind that leaves Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Bobby Rush and a whole bunch of other black people, right?
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
2:16 pm
Excuse the frankness, but do you know how to follow threads?
Yeah, I am an excellent reader. I fail to see the connection between Rep. Rush’s stunt and playing the race card. Seems that the rules on the race card keep changing, which is why I made the statement in regards to sneezing.
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
2:17 pm
quoting ny times…..healthcare……poll……..????? enough said…..
Bruno
March 28th, 2012
2:18 pm
WE will be back to socialized medicine courtesy of Saint Ronnie called EMTALA where everyone gets free medical care regardless of income, eligibility or citizenship if they make it to an emergency room.
Independent thinker–You appear to be making the same error in your 2:02 post that Jay makes above. ERs are only legally required to stabilize a patient’s condition. They aren’t required to provide followup care, such that a person can’t get all of their health care at an ER.
Please try to get your facts straight before ranting.
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
2:18 pm
Oblama is in office and I’m sure he will jump on it.
You and that ignorant piece of trash at Newsmax.
Ronald Kessler reporting from Washington, D.C.— True to form, President Obama has used the tragic shooting of an unarmed black teenager to prejudge the case and blame all Americans.
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Obama-Trayvon-Martin-race/2012/03/26/id/433848
Oscar
March 28th, 2012
2:19 pm
Billybob
————–
Gallup and other polls said the same thing. I only gave one link, which is enough. You got a link says anything different.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
2:20 pm
As long as you don’t try to smash someone’s head into the ground
If walking made someone suspicious, what would running do?
———————
NoCom
I would hope not, but then again, I don’t know all of my neighbors. If they shoot at me and miss, I have a duty to protect myself.
Halfrack
March 28th, 2012
2:21 pm
The answer is that we have saved our freedom. The answer to Healthcare has been in removing obstacles to a free market, and everyone plays by the same rules. An insurance Company does not have anymore right to say which Doctor you can go to than the Government. Also we don’t need death panels by the Government either. A small amount of regulation is required – - – to achieve parity and equality. Very poor people need a Healthcare affirmative action plan.
Recon 0311 2533
March 28th, 2012
2:22 pm
Sorry Oscar but I don’t put much faith in N.Y. Times polls. I look to Gallup and Rasmussen as I’ve found greater accuracy in their polling results. I recall a Rasmussen poll that indicated that 80% were satisfied with the quality of their health care. Even your N.Y. Times poll indicated 77% were satisfied with the quality of their health care. The majority of Americans today want the individual mandate removed or complete repeal.
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
2:22 pm
brocephus,
we see more and more democrats take the community-organizer-agitator position and this congressman was inciting people and flaming emotions on the house floor to the point that he was violating house ethics rules and was forcably removed based on his behavior…….i don’t see the race card in this one…..
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
2:23 pm
David Granger
The first hint of a tax increase will doom your plan. When you have a Congress who won’t let a tax sale expire, do you think they will allow an increase in taxes? That will bring the economy to a screeching halt.
jhunt163
March 28th, 2012
2:23 pm
Not comparing apples to apples, but here is a link to a poll that states more people would rather have the status quo than Obamacare
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=2009%20health%20care%20polls&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CGYQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffirstread.msnbc.msn.com%2Farchive%2F2009%2F12%2F16%2F2153563.aspx&ei=iFVzT6F0jpe3B7rnqI0G&usg=AFQjCNGPu5klt9GjW8sGP2kpv3pntVav2g
mm
March 28th, 2012
2:23 pm
Yep, that bastion of liberty that wants government out of our lives (the GOP) shot down an amendment in the House today that would prevent employers from gaining access to potential employees Facebook accounts.
Obviously, they feel corporations can do whatever the hell they want to do.
oblama
March 28th, 2012
2:24 pm
The subject TODAY is Oblamacare – the world will be better off without it.
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
March 28th, 2012
2:24 pm
“he was violating house ethics rules and was forcably removed based on his behavior”
Funny, I dont remember Joe Wilson getting excused……… maybe I missed that part.
Tommy Maddox
March 28th, 2012
2:24 pm
I was going to join in on the protest and wear my hoddie the other day while downtown. Go figure – someone broke into my car and stole it.
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
2:25 pm
no thanks, not interested in 2009 ny times polls…..interested in supreme court decision……
mm
March 28th, 2012
2:25 pm
” this congressman was inciting people and flaming emotions on the house floor to the point that he was violating house ethics rules and was forcably removed based on his behavior
He was removed because you cannot wear a hat on the floor.
Recon 0311 2533
March 28th, 2012
2:26 pm
“More than a few of you right wingers can barely contain your glee that a young black kid was killed.”
JamVet, There’s no truth in that allegation. You can do better than that.
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
March 28th, 2012
2:26 pm
“I was going to join in on the protest and wear my hoddie the other day while downtown”
Sorry Tommy….not THAT kinda hoodie you’re use too wearing.
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
2:27 pm
…was forcably (sic) removed…
That is a lie.
Get your facts straight. Or don’t.
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2012
2:27 pm
We already have a healthcare mandate, limited as it may be in its current form and certainly subject to change if (or when) so legislated, and we already have a healthcare payment mandate in the form of payroll taxes for Medicare and other taxation used to cover Medicaid, etc. The current discussion will hopefully settle the role that insurance companies will play going forward. We need someone to handle the logistics, for a reasonable fee. But the drama must still be allowed to play out. It’s just part of the natural order.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
2:27 pm
we see more and more democrats take the community-organizer-agitator position and this congressman was inciting people and flaming emotions on the house floor to the point that he was violating house ethics rules and was forcably removed based on his behavior
Is that any different than Conservative lawmakers rallying crowds chanting “Kill the Bill” during the healthcare debates? Is that any different than conservatives disrupting town hall debates by shouting down members of Congress. Both parties have been inflaming people and stirring up sh*t for a long time. Funny that you only see it as a Democratic Party thing. The first step to beating your addiction is to acknowledge it. It works the same for your partisanship.
Don't Forget
March 28th, 2012
2:28 pm
Bruno,
ERs are only legally required to stabilize a patient’s condition. They aren’t required to provide followup care, such that a person can’t get all of their health care at an ER.
For the most part that is true unless the condition requires admission in order to be treated. For example, say someone comes to the ER with a bowel obstruction due to a malignant tumor. The patient will generally get the surgery because it will be required to remove the obstruction. But they won’t get their chemo started in the hospital generally speaking.
F. Sinkwich
March 28th, 2012
2:28 pm
Not a difficult question at all. Here are the steps to serious and effective HC reform:
1) Eviscerate HHS
2) Fully block grant the states
3) Repeal every federal regulation and law preventing the states from implementing HC as they see fit, i.e, no federal mandates
4) Provide states whatever federal support they need for tort reform, allowing competition across state lines, etc.
Occam’s razor, folks. It ain’t that hard.
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
2:29 pm
different venue different rules and wilson’s words were aimed at one man, the president……and obama did lie with regard to wilson’s comments………passion is good, but passion to the point of being physically removed from the house b/c of your actions is not….
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2012
2:30 pm
oblama
March 28th, 2012
2:24 pm
The subject TODAY is Oblamacare – the world will be better off without it.
Given that you, oblama, have never cared for the worldly, how will we know.
Bruno
March 28th, 2012
2:30 pm
There is nothing like hearing somebody with conservative ideals championing a single payer system. I know that’s not your primary choice, if it was yours to make, but you are one of very few conservatives that acknowledge it is one option depending on the course of action we take.
Brosephus–There is no doubt that a single-payer system offers many advantages, and even less doubt that it would be preferable to the insurance mandate. At the same time, there are decided disadvantages to single payer, which is why I oppose it. As stated above, I think a mixed system is best, in which the poorest among us are cared for, but with enough consumerism to keep prices reasonable for the rest of us.
William
March 28th, 2012
2:31 pm
“Yeah, I am an excellent reader. I fail to see the connection between Rep. Rush’s stunt and playing the race card. Seems that the rules on the race card keep changing, which is why I made the statement in regards to sneezing.”
Rush is a former Black Panther who stood up in the House of Representatives with a hoodie to protest “racial profiling” while (to TD’s point) there were 47 shootings the past weekend in or around his district. To me, he is straining out a gnat but swallowing a camel. Black-on-black violence is by far a greater problem than racial profiling. And if I am right, then why would he do such a thing?
And besides, “profiling” is something we all do – even you. That is just another word for sizing things up. If I go into the super market and see a white guy with a swastika on his forehead like Manson’s, I am going to be wary of him. I might even try to find out more about him, to see if he is a danger to anyone. Race has nothing to do with it. Teenagers who dress like “gangstas ” are putting themselves in the position of being confused with them. I understand it is a part of their rebellious phase but, unlike former generations who dressed like hippies or punks, gang members are deadly violent. Just ask all of the parents who have lost little children in drive bys.
Recon 0311 2533
March 28th, 2012
2:37 pm
Justice Kennedy seemed to concur with council opposing ObamaCare that forcing 20 something and 30 something people to buy Cadillac health care plans, while all the greater majority in this age group need only catastrophic insurance is really a means to force younger people to pay for the health care of others.
oblama
March 28th, 2012
2:37 pm
Oblama jumped on it! Don’t blame me. I am not familiar with the newspaper you referred to – sorry. I call for real justice in the case – not perceived guilt or vigilante justice. The Dems are taking advantage of this tragedy – just a fact. Actually I don’t care what color anyone is – if they murder someone, for any reason, not just a “hate crime” – fry them.
stands for decibels
March 28th, 2012
2:38 pm
Don’t Forget @ 2.13, I think you should add to that list:
Why are we the only country not named “New Zealand” to permit the direct marketing of prescription drugs to consumers?
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
2:39 pm
bro,
yes it is different…..in those examples there is only one who was physically removed from the house floor and in your examples the angst originated from a bill, shoved down america’s throat, that is about to be ruled unconstitutional…..and this does happen to a certain degree on both sides…..
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
2:39 pm
Bruno
I can’t help it. Forgive me for continuing to poke at you about it. I’ll probably do it all the way until the SCOTUS ruling is made public.
———————
William
So, based on his past, he’s playing the race card today by addressing a problem. Black on Black crime is a problem, but it never amounts to much until people outside the community want to use it as some statistic that Blacks are criminals or something to that effect. I’ve got it. Since he WAS a member of the Black Panthers, anytime he speaks upon something involving race, he’s playing the race card.
Profiling is one thing, acting on that prejudice is something entirely different. Unlike most, I don’t allow my prejudices to override my actions or even my common sense. After seeing some of the things I’ve seen in life and meeting some of the people I have, I have very few worries about what somebody “might” do based on their appearance. I am trained and continue to train on how to handle any situation that arises.
stands for decibels
March 28th, 2012
2:40 pm
oy, botched that.
“Why are we alone among nations not named ‘New Zealand’… ”
is what I meant, @ 2.38.
AU Liberal in ATL
March 28th, 2012
2:42 pm
It’s all a scharade. It’s a show. Right wing actors in black robes pretending to be non-partisan. There is very little about this court that could be characterized as Supreme. A shameful display.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
2:43 pm
the angst originated from a bill, shoved down america’s throat,
Bullsh*t. The angst originated from well financed conservative operatives. The fact that it was stirred by members of Congress appears to escape your memory, but I remember seeing them stepping out onto balconies and riling the crowds during the debates. From their smiles, they all appeared to get pleasure from doing so. Being removed from the House floor has nothing to do with getting people riled up, as you claim Rep. Rush’s intent was.
gm
March 28th, 2012
2:43 pm
12 YEARS OF REP RULE FROM BOTH BUSH NOT ONE TRIED TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION FOR HEALTH CARE OR SEND A BILL FOR HEALTH CARE, NOW THAT OBAMA HAD THE GUTS TO STAND UP FOR 40 MILLION PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO COVERAGE THE ANTI AMERICANS ON THE RIGHT WANT TO ATTACK.
I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW THESE ARE YOUR CHRISTIANS CONSERVATIVE WHO POINT THEIR FINGERS AT ABORTIONS BUT DO NOT CARE IF A CHILD THAT IS HERE DIE FROM NO HEALTH CARE.
satan rep party continues””””’
Paul
March 28th, 2012
2:44 pm
Hi Brosephus
Anybody opposed to the individual mandate and/or the health care bill in general have any specific recommendation on with what it should be replaced?
I just gotta ask the question -
Bernie
March 28th, 2012
2:46 pm
Allen West Is Upset About Rule Allowing Handicapped Access To Commercial Swimming Pools in Florida.
Will someone inform Rep.West (R) that as a result of the injuries sustained by our troops in both “WAR” theaters that we “NOW” have over 15,000 Vets that have at least one or more limbs that are missing. So, if any of them decide to go to Florida for a vacation or weekend trip. The Hotel they are staying in will have pools that are accessible with handicap lifts to allow them some semblence of a normal Life. The Vets and th their familes would be truly grateful for the allowance of equal accessibility for one we all take so much for granted.
AU Liberal in ATL
March 28th, 2012
2:46 pm
Does anyone really think that those opposed to the healthcare bill would ever even consider being without health insurance. My point, this law has zero affect on those who most oppose it.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
2:47 pm
Paul
Bruno posted a couple of options. Other than that, not really much of anything else new.
Paul
March 28th, 2012
2:47 pm
F. Sinkwich
“2) Fully block grant the states”
Fully?
Where’s the money come from:? Tax increase?
This a yearly blank check? No regulations means no controls.
oblama
March 28th, 2012
2:49 pm
JV – If the situation had been reversed – say the black guy had shot and killed an unarmed latino/white guy would you call it racism? Would you be as outraged? I’m for frying any murderer – regardless of race. If it’s murder – try him and fry him!