If ObamaCare dies, what then?
It’s June, and the heart of ObamaCare, the individual mandate, has just been struck down by the Supreme Court in a 5-4 vote.
What now?
In discussions today, the justices will hear debate about whether they can kill the mandate and leave the rest of the legislation intact, or whether the entire structure comes tumbling down without the mandate.
That legal debate aside, as a practical matter I think it’s clear that without the mandate, insurance companies cannot be required to cover pre-existing conditions, which goes to the heart of what health-insurance reform is supposed to achieve.
If individuals can go without insurance as long as they’re healthy, then force the insurance companies to cover them when they get ill, the whole concept of insurance goes out the window. It is no longer sustainable. That’s precisely why the Heritage Foundation, Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney, among others, embraced and pushed the mandate approach.
So again, what happens if the mandate disappears?
In the two years since ObamaCare was signed into law, congressional Republicans have campaigned on a policy of “repeal and replace.” In truth, they have made no real attempt to do either.
If the court rules against ObamaCare, of course, “repeal” becomes moot and attention turns to the “replace” part of the problem. Replace it with what?
As I’ve noted before, when I had the chance to discuss the issue with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and Sen. Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, neither could offer even the slightest idea for how to solve the problem without a mandate. That is also true for the Republican Party as a whole.
What little thinking they’ve done on the issue seems to coalesce around the idea that the problem in health care is third-party insurance, whether acquired through private companies or through the government. The philosophy seems to be that if people are forced to pay out of their own pockets for health care, instead of relying on other parties to pay for it, market forces will once again come into play and the health-care market will begin to behave more like the market for wheat or automobiles.
Theoretically, it makes sense. But people don’t live theoretically. Theory doesn’t explain how a family can pay for one child’s apendectomy and another child’s broken leg out of its own resources. It doesn’t explain how an elderly couple on a fixed income can pay for their medicine and doctor visits. Pristine economic models don’t begin to get us where we need to be.
If ObamaCare is overturned, the fundamental questions that we were all asking three or four years ago will once again come to the forefront:
Is health care a human right, or can it be denied to those who are unable to pay for it? If you want to bring market forces to bear on the problem, you pretty much have to take the second approach. But so far we have been unwilling to embrace it. The Reagan-era law requiring emergency rooms to treat patients regardless of ability to pay still stands as de facto acceptance that health care is a right.
And if health care is a right — if we are not willing to deny health care to those unable to pay for it — how will we as a nation and society cover those costs? ObamaCare attempts to provide an answer to that question. If that answer proves unacceptable to a majority on the U.S. Supreme Court, what’s the next answer?
Come June, that could become a powerful question in a presidential campaign that will be hitting its full stride right about then.
– Jay Bookman
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
891 comments Add your comment
Tommy Maddox
March 28th, 2012
12:53 pm
The Left has set some bad precedent during their Pelosi tenure.
When [if] the Right takes over following this November, the Left might not enjoy seeing sweeping legislation getting passed via reconciliation or appointments made out-of-session.
Obama is over
March 28th, 2012
12:54 pm
Joe Cool Thug @ 11:35 VERY MUCH INTENDED TO BE FACTUAL
My information is from the lead editorial in the Wall Street Journal 3-22-12 editon entitled “Liberty and Obamacare.” Google it. Read it. You might learn something.
The artical states:”Consider a White House strategy memo leaked this month revealing that Senior Administration officials are coordinating with liberal advocacy groups to pressure the Court. The White House is even organizing demonstrations during the proceedings, including a “prayerful witness” circling the Supreme Court.” Maybe if you got your news information from sources other than Comedy Central and the Cartoon Network we could elevate the conversation. The fact that the White House is organizing protests against fellow Americans and the judicial system speaks volumes about the character of the President and how he conducts business.
Libertarian
March 28th, 2012
12:54 pm
I’m wondering what ever happened to the case of the hate crime that was committed a couple of months back where the black guys beat up the gay guy for being gay. Those guys definitely should have been charged with a federal hate crime…I love how these stories are so big and then they just go away and no one ever hears about them again.
They BOTH suck
March 28th, 2012
12:54 pm
“beating Zimmerman’s face in and smashing his head against the concrete he will get man slaghter. ”
You must be preacy to some info that everyone else doesn’t have….. While NO pictures have been shown of a broken nose there have been reports, but beating faces in and heads being smashed against concrete
Thankfully Zimmerman had a hard head……. Guess those pics will come out after the investigation
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
12:54 pm
So Rickster, what do we do with a child born with juvenile diabetes? Leave it in the street to die when the child turns 18?
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
12:55 pm
Who wants to buy my lunch today? I spent all my money at the bar last night and I have a right to eat!
You also have the right to F off and die.
And just a stab here, but I’m guessing the overwhelming percentage of people on this forum are hoping you choose that option!
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
12:56 pm
Obama is over
March 28th, 2012
12:54 pm
Joe Cool Thug @ 11:35 VERY MUCH INTENDED TO BE FACTUAL
My information is from the lead editorial in the Wall Street Journal 3-22-12
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You mean from Rupert Murdoch? Ok yeah, I believe THAT to be unbiased and factual…………..
Aquagirl
March 28th, 2012
12:56 pm
You guys are pathetic
….sez the guy who can’t suppress his racism enough not to break into a threadjacking rant.
They BOTH suck
March 28th, 2012
12:56 pm
“The White House is even organizing demonstrations during the proceedings, including a “prayerful witness” circling the Supreme Court.”
Guess all those who are opposed just showed up on their own……. No coordination from any right leaning groups. They are individually said lets go to Dc and stand outside of the court
mmmmmmmmmmmm
Great info
And to think, the poster laughed at another for where they obtained their news and information
oblama
March 28th, 2012
12:57 pm
What will we do if Obamacare dies? We will celebrate what we never missed any way.
They BOTH suck
March 28th, 2012
12:57 pm
“You must be privy to some info that everyone else doesn’t have….”
my bad
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
12:58 pm
Libertarian
March 28th, 2012
12:54 pm
I’m wondering what ever happened to the case of the hate crime that was committed a couple of months back where the black guys beat up the gay guy for being gay. Those guys definitely should have been charged with a federal hate crime…I love how these stories are so big and then they just go away and no one ever hears about them again.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I think the way that one turned out was that the gay dude was going to out one or two of the guys who beat him up. As in toss them out of the closet. So since it was some gay guys beating up a gay guy it wasn’t really a hate crime.
Zebra
March 28th, 2012
12:58 pm
If Obamacare dies, then we are stuck with CorporateCare which is by far the most expensive in the world and gives us the 37th best healthcare. Woohoo! Go GOP!!!!
Libertarian
March 28th, 2012
12:58 pm
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
12:54 pm
The child could *gasp* get a job when it turns 18….a job that provides health insurance through a group…therefore, the child couldn’t be turned down for coverage.
They BOTH suck
March 28th, 2012
12:58 pm
oblama
Has google, bing or yahoo been able to assist in you backing up your earlier assertions about Obama?
You clown…. thanks for the belly laughs
Libertarian
March 28th, 2012
12:59 pm
“You also have the right to F off and die.”
Real Nice.
stands for decibels
March 28th, 2012
12:59 pm
I’m wondering what ever happened to the case of the hate crime that was committed a couple of months back where the black guys beat up the gay guy for being gay.
You know what he’s talking about. It was the guy, with the stuff, who said things?
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
1:00 pm
They BOTH suck – “Has google, bing or yahoo been able to assist in you backing up your earlier assertions about Obama?”
He’s busy re-arranging his dolls so that they can tell him the answer.
Its pretty simple Jay...
March 28th, 2012
1:00 pm
Obama might has well pack his bags, because he’s done for.
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
1:01 pm
Who the heck wants the government administering health care????
ME!!
I LOVE the VA. The GOLD standard if healthcare. It blows away the crap you fools think is good.
God, yes.
oblama
March 28th, 2012
1:01 pm
Racism was Jay’s subject yesterday – let’s stay on today’s subject. Oblamacare and more government ineptness is good?
Becky
March 28th, 2012
1:01 pm
Libertarian-please provide employer’s names and addresses hiring unskilled 18 year olds that include insurance in their benefits package.
Common Sense
March 28th, 2012
1:02 pm
“Ummmm, because they don’t have money (or at least their jobs don’t that pay that well to be able to afford insurance) because they are concentrating on their school???”
More likely because of a sorry economy that is not rebounding as you are consistently being brainwashed to believe.
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
1:03 pm
Obama might has well pack his bags, because he’s done for.
Meat, so how much easy money are you going to make between Vegas and Intrade?
LOL at you blustering no-balls…
Attention ALL Republicans on this blog!!
March 28th, 2012
1:03 pm
Kyle has not reached his quota. Go help him out and leave the civil conversations for the intelligent people!
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
1:03 pm
libertarian,
that might have been a comment from sebellius to the 70 year old that wanted a new heart under obamacare’s death panels……..
They BOTH suck
March 28th, 2012
1:03 pm
Butch
It is funny how he was quick to say he doesn’t get his talking points from any right leaning sources and all his thoughts where his, but can’t back up 99.9% of them with anything…………
Hopefully in real life he doesn’t walk around in fantasy land as he comes across on this blog
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
1:03 pm
Libertarian
March 28th, 2012
12:58 pm
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
12:54 pm
The child could *gasp* get a job when it turns 18….a job that provides health insurance through a group…therefore, the child couldn’t be turned down for coverage.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So what job is this that hires blind crippled people who are wheelchair bound? You don’t know much about Juvenile diabetes do you?
But hey, that was a great pull it out of your ass stock one size fits all answer. Cudo’s. Neal would be proud of you.
Libertarian
March 28th, 2012
1:04 pm
Becky
March 28th, 2012
1:01 pm
My company does it all the time…but I’m not going to give out the name to the lunatics on this blog.
This child would also have the option of going to college and staying on their parent’s plan until they graduate. So, your argument is flawed.
jhunt163
March 28th, 2012
1:05 pm
Agreeing, Justice Anthony Kennedy said it would be an “extreme proposition” to allow the various insurance regulations to stand after the mandate was struck down.
This Pig is dead.
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-justices-poised-to-strike-down-entire-healthcare-law-20120328,0,2058481.story
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
1:05 pm
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
1:01 pm
Who the heck wants the government administering health care????
ME!!
I LOVE the VA. The GOLD standard if healthcare. It blows away the crap you fools think is good.
God, yes.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Seriously? My cousin had to get a Congressional investigation started in order to get his stuff done. And they STILL have problems……..
getalife
March 28th, 2012
1:05 pm
I see a bunch of toobins basing their opinions on the questions asked buy I base it on the con sc activists precedent of unlimited corporate donations of their citizen united decision.
I don’t think the con sc activists will say no the the ultimate corporate welfare of their idea called the mandate.
Aquagirl
March 28th, 2012
1:06 pm
The child could *gasp* get a job when it turns 18….a job that provides health insurance through a group…
Why yes, there are tons of those jobs just lying around out there, waiting for someone without a college degree.
And our country would be so much better off if my friend’s kid with diabetes had entered into lifelong indentured servitude as a paper-pusher, rather than get degrees in Physics and Engineering. We don’t need any more of those maths and scienc-y people.
Libertarian
March 28th, 2012
1:06 pm
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
1:03 pm
Actually, I know a lot about it…my sister has it and I’ve had to save her life more than once. But…go ahead and continue to pretend like you care what I’m saying when you don’t. You asked the question and I gave you a solution but you’re to blindly ideological to even consider it.
Furthermore, if the child in question was in fact “blind and crippled” he would be on disability and would be eligible for medicaid.
Attention ALL Republicans on this blog!!
March 28th, 2012
1:06 pm
IF the Obamacare is NOT repealed, what will be your next strategy?
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 28th, 2012
1:07 pm
They BOTH suck,
I didn’t notice you posting to me yesterday at all but then I saw your last post stating that you had been hard on me. Look out- Doomy’s revenge!!! Its cool if you were tough on me-specially if I didn’t notice. Doomy got a thick skin and I usually laugh out loud when someone gets me with a good zinger. I’m glad to see Butch Cassidy is on this afternoon. He sometimes zaps me with a good one that makes me laugh out loud.
willie lynch
March 28th, 2012
1:08 pm
If the system was so great before the Affordable Care act was passed, why is it so f***ked up? Especially since most of the act hasn’t gone into effect.
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
1:09 pm
Becky, not sure if you know or care, but “Kramer” is the same old nitwit mystery meat under yet another new name, spouting the same old nonsense that he has for a long time.
His arguments are so laughably bad that he has to create a new persona every week…
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
1:09 pm
‘If that answer proves unacceptable to a majority on the U.S. Supreme Court, what’s the next answer?’
how about voting out all the statists that tried to ignore the constitution and force all americans to bow to gov’t bureaucrats, then start over with new private sector free market principles that are actually within the bounds of our founding document
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 28th, 2012
1:09 pm
“We don’t need any more of those maths and scienc-y people.”
Damn straight. We need more folks with practical degrees like African American studies, chicano studies, women’s studies, Anglo white man studies if it exists, sociology, political science, etc. degrees.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
1:10 pm
Fred @ 12:32
That one IS a high bar to surpass. Paul originated the political ideology tracking calendar though. I’d say the two of you are legends in your own rights.
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
1:11 pm
Attention – “IF the Obamacare is NOT repealed, what will be your next strategy?”
Hopefully the same one that has been advocated on here time and time again – NOTHING.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
1:11 pm
Furthermore, if the child in question was in fact “blind and crippled” he would be on disability and would be eligible for medicaid.
Ahhhhh, I forgot about that.
But I had a friend (dead now) who had juvenile diabetes. He was NEVER able to get any health insurance once he was too old for his parents.
And if my wife quits or loses her job, where will I get health insurance? I now am old and fat and have, high blood pressure, high cholesterol and gout. Pre-existing causes if we have to move jobs……….
Dick Cheney An American hero!
March 28th, 2012
1:12 pm
Obamacare will be an unmitigated disaster. As is the Afghanistan war under Obama’s poor leadership.
Here we go!
March 28th, 2012
1:12 pm
Are you willing to pay the same amount for insurance you pay for your mortgage? If you had a child born with disabilities, are you willing to watch he/she die because you can’t afford insurance? If your child has asthma and can’t breath, do you watch them turn blue? At what point do you say “enough”? Are you really willing to let other people suffer because you don’t like Obama? Is that what we are in this country? What are your solutions? I have not seen ONE solution from any GOP’er running for office or any on this blog. Tell me, what is YOUR solution?
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
1:12 pm
When [if] the Right takes over following this November, the Left might not enjoy seeing sweeping legislation getting passed via reconciliation or appointments made out-of-session.
Ummmm, the Right has done those things before. The Left did not set any precedent.
Common Sense
March 28th, 2012
1:13 pm
‘Damn straight. We need more folks with practical degrees like African American studies, chicano studies, women’s studies, Anglo white man studies if it exists, sociology, political science, etc. degrees.’
And if they incur debts of 100k or so for a job that pays 25k a year, all the better!
Under the Obama Student loan plan, you’ll only pay 10% of what you earn OVER the poverty level for ten years. Then the debt is forgiven.
That works out to about 9k for a 100k degree! Now that’s a serious bargain!
getalife
March 28th, 2012
1:13 pm
They would have to end willardcare too in Mass.
We have government run health care with Medicare and Medicaid and the cons want to end that too.
They want to end SS too.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
1:14 pm
I’m glad to see Butch Cassidy is on this afternoon. He sometimes zaps me with a good one that makes me laugh out loud.
But not as loud as when you look in the mirror wearing your speedo………….
JP
March 28th, 2012
1:14 pm
If the mandate dies, then the entire thing will be struck down and we’ll be back to square one. it will be another 10-20 years before either party touches healthcare again….
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
1:14 pm
willie lynch
March 28th, 2012
1:08 pm
If the system was so great before the Affordable Care act was passed, why is it so f***ked up? Especially since most of the act hasn’t gone into effect.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Haven’t we all ignored that post once on a earlier page today?
Dick Cheney An American hero!
March 28th, 2012
1:15 pm
If I had been president we wouldn’t be getting our butts kicked in Afghanistan they way we are under Obama.
Attention ALL Republicans on this blog!!
March 28th, 2012
1:15 pm
Dick Cheney An American hero!
March 28th, 2012
1:12 pm
Those Dixie Chicks were right about George W Bush though! Worst President EVER! The price that they payed far exceeded that truth!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pojL_35QlSI&ob=av2e
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
1:15 pm
Here we go! “Tell me, what is YOUR solution?”
You need to go back and read some of the previous posts. The opponents of Obamacare have clearly and proudly stated that the GOP should do nothing, zip, nada. Unfortunately, they haven’t updated their “Repeal and Replace” literature, so the average person actually expects there to be an alternative to Obamacare to review.
Libertarian
March 28th, 2012
1:15 pm
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
1:11 pm
If you’re really old, then you can have medicare. If your wife moves to another job that provides health insurance, you cannot be excluded because of a preexisting condition. Group policies can’t exclude people.
Don't Forget
March 28th, 2012
1:16 pm
Old Timer
but we think it’s perfectly OK if a licensed physician pulls in a half million bucks per year.
You’re not even CLOSE to being correct. If I made HALF that amount, it would be a BIG raise and I AM board certified.
http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2011/
Add to that the average student loan debt of $155,000 as of 2008 and the fact that for at least 3 years after medical school you are a resident and earn an income in the $40,000’s. This is followed by a few years (2-5) as a fellow earning an income in the $70,000’s.
If you want to compare doc income to other nations, fair enough but be sure you do that for everybody else as well. I don’t know what type of work you did before you became an old timer but it was probably a good bit better than people in other countries. (shame on you
) Also compare cost of living and cost of education.
Heck I’ve never even stayed at a Ritz Carlton, or anywhere near as nice as some of our other healthcare providers do.
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
1:16 pm
Washington (CNN) — A congressman was removed from the House floor Wednesday after giving a speech about Trayvon Martin while wearing a hoodie.
Rep. Bobby Rush, D-Illinois, told House members, “racial profiling has to stop.”
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/28/politics/congressman-hoodie/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Right on.
Agitate, agitate, agitate. Always agitate. ~Frederick Douglass
too little time
March 28th, 2012
1:18 pm
What do we do if Obamacare dies?
The question has/is/always will be: Who pays for healthcare when an individual can’t afford it?
Obamacare shifts the burden to the 51% of wage earners who actually pay Federal income taxes, and to State income taxpaers in the form of Medicaid.
The current system to taxpayers (in the form of aid to hospitals and Medicaid) as well as higher premiums/deductables on those who do pay.
What we are really talking about is: who pays for those who are unable or unwilling to pay?
A FURTHER analysis of the situation finds that a very VERY small percentage of users, mostly the end-of-life patients and the OBESE patients, use upwards of 80% of the healthcare dollars in this country. If it were not for these patients, we would be able to afford healthcare for all in this country. Unless we tackle this problem, NO system will work. There was an article in a British paper TODAY that is pitting elderly care (not end of life care) against the FATTIES. They make the point: why should care be cut for older patients in favor of those with poor eating habits? In short, until/unless we are able to cut the FATTIES loose from the healthcare system madates to save them, or find a different way to handle them, we will always struggle with paying for healthcare. The British system is collapsing under these lard asses. Ours is , and will (even under Obamacare) too.
Libertarian
March 28th, 2012
1:18 pm
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
1:16 pm
I wonder if you’d be cheering on a republican who was yelling bible verses on the house floor…
Guess this guy missed that whole separation of church and state thing.
Aquagirl
March 28th, 2012
1:18 pm
And if my wife quits or loses her job, where will I get health insurance?
After the 18 year old diabetic dies from lack of medical care, you can grab that job with full insurance he was hogging. There’s your Libertarian solution.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
1:18 pm
Under the Obama Student loan plan, you’ll only pay 10% of what you earn OVER the poverty level for ten years. Then the debt is forgiven.
That works out to about 9k for a 100k degree! Now that’s a serious bargain!
DUDE!!!!!!!!!!! Seriously? I’m going back to school.
Oh hell we make to much money already. DAMMIT I miss all the deals……
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 28th, 2012
1:19 pm
Fred,
I wondered where my sand flea was. I aint had no ankle nips lately so I guess he’s on spring break. Its cool if you pick up where sand flea left off. The speedo routine and the self visual when I see it cracks me up too. I just don’t want him to know that for fear that he might quit with the speedo routine.
DaveG.
March 28th, 2012
1:20 pm
Well, I guess the bankruptcy courts will be filled to overflowing. With 9 million people being denied access to health care insurance over the last 3 years, it won’t be too long before they lose their homes, or they have to sell their homes, after they have liquidated their 401Ks to pay for medical bills. With a real estate market already on the ropes, this is going to get real ugly, fast. Remember this, you can’t get chemo therapy from an emergency room, and it is very, very expensive.
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
1:20 pm
Jamvet – “A congressman was removed from the House floor Wednesday after giving a speech about Trayvon Martin while wearing a hoodie.
Rep. Bobby Rush, D-Illinois, told House members, “racial profiling has to stop.”
If he doesn’t want to be profiled, then he needs to stop showing up on the House floor wearing a hoodie.
jhunt163
March 28th, 2012
1:20 pm
“Solicitor General Donald B. Verrilli Jr. should be grateful to the Supreme Court for refusing to allow cameras in the courtroom, because his defense of Obamacare on Tuesday may go down as one of the most spectacular flameouts in the history of the court,” Adam Serwer wrote on the website of the liberal magazine Mother Jones.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
1:21 pm
If the mandate dies, then the entire thing will be struck down and we’ll be back to square one. it will be another 10-20 years before either party touches healthcare again….
If all this is done over health care, imagine what’s in the works if either party attempts to touch Medicaid, Medicare, or Social Security. The GOP is potentially shooting the financial argument in the foot over a policy they came up with.
Bernie
March 28th, 2012
1:21 pm
Jay, The premise of the title of your article today is more disgusting and offensive than I could ever imagine. However based on all all of your previous writings, I must say, I am not completely surprised by the level you would stoop too, by making such an outlandish statement, its obviously in your DNA.
I do hope someone frrom the Secret Service reviews and evaluate it as well.
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
1:21 pm
jamvet,
please keep encouraging your radical dem representatives to agitate……..please, the country has had enough and it will backfire as it already is backfiring…..please keep it up
getalife
March 28th, 2012
1:21 pm
I think the sc talked itself into it will be too complicated to strike down this bill.
Attention ALL Republicans on this blog!!
March 28th, 2012
1:22 pm
Bernie
March 28th, 2012
1:21 pm
….but, but, why do you all keep coming here???
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
1:22 pm
If your wife moves to another job that provides health insurance, you cannot be excluded because of a preexisting condition. Group policies can’t exclude people.
Really? Shows how little I know about it all. Which is WHY I have never said Obamacare is good or bad. I just don’t know.
Better be nice to my wife, I’d be screwed if she divorced me lol. I’m self employed so I wouldn’t qualify for a “group” plan. I’m fat but not fact enough yet to be considered a group…………….
mm
March 28th, 2012
1:22 pm
” the Left might not enjoy seeing sweeping legislation getting passed via reconciliation or appointments made out-of-session.”
Hey Einstein, how do you think the Bush tax cuts were passed?
Bush made over 170 recess apointments. Obama has made around 30.
“Maybe if you got your news information from sources other than Comedy Central and the Cartoon Network we could elevate the conversation. ”
That’s rich, considering the BS in your post.
Fox News and Rushbo really have dumbed down you cons.
oblama
March 28th, 2012
1:23 pm
Jamvet – I do agree with you on one thing. We owe it to veterans to provide them with decent health care – especially those that have been in combat. Pay for most in the military is low and healthcare is considered, like the G.I. Bill for college, as part of their pay.
getalife
March 28th, 2012
1:23 pm
The argument was interrupted by constant questions so it is tough to judge the quality of the argument.
Attention ALL Republicans on this blog!!
March 28th, 2012
1:24 pm
Are you all on the same MEDICATION? Do you want to blow off hot air? Go out and adopt an animal or volunteer at a homeless shelter.
Steve
March 28th, 2012
1:25 pm
LOL!
oblama
March 28th, 2012
1:25 pm
Dixie Chicks my butt! They are from some place like Jersey. I wouldn’t depend on those air heads for an intelligent discussion about anything.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
1:26 pm
Obamacare shifts the burden to the 51% of wage earners who actually pay Federal income taxes
And at that bold faced lie I quit reading as my idiot alert buzzer was sounding off
Attention ALL Republicans on this blog!!
March 28th, 2012
1:27 pm
and with a name like oblama I would not trust you to watch my dog!
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 28th, 2012
1:28 pm
JamVet,
I’m disappointed in you. I posted under Dick Cheney hoping to see you blast the man out of the water with one of your patented chicken hawk tirades. It always gets me rolling to the point of crying cause I laugh so hard. You’re slipping man.
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
1:28 pm
mm,
mmm, mmm, mmm
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
1:29 pm
I wonder if you’d be cheering on a republican who was yelling bible verses on the house floor…
Yes, because I’m certain that he is the very first man in the long history of that august body to ever quote from that book.
oblama, in my uppity and useless opinion, ALL Americans deserve to be cared for in the same humane manner – nurses, policemen, firefighters, truck drivers, machinists, school teachers, ALL of them.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
1:29 pm
Obamacare shifts the burden to the 51% of wage earners who actually pay Federal income taxes, and to State income taxpaers in the form of Medicaid.
The ACA requires everybody to pay for insurance. It does not shift costs or hold costs down. It simply gives the insurance company limitless customers/sources of income. The current system makes those who have insurance pay for those who don’t. It has nothing to do with who pays taxes and who does not.
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
March 28th, 2012
1:30 pm
Get a life Bernie…….
You are worst than the trolls….lol
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
1:31 pm
They are from some place like Jersey.
Idiotic on two levels, at least…
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
1:32 pm
JamVet
If Bobby Rush got you going, you probably fell out of your chair with Arlen Spector’s comments on Romney….
http://news.yahoo.com/arlen-specter-made-grossest-romney-analogy-yet-133235743.html
On Wednesday Sen. Arlen Specter kicked the bar way up (or rather, down) in the insulting imagery department by comparing the candidate to a “pornographic movie queen.” Because he changes positions so often, you see.
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
1:32 pm
Nah, Doomy, I a bit earlier linked Luckovich’s cartoon today that skewered the POS better than I could!
(But I’m watching you!)
Mittens "MaGic DrAw's" 2012
March 28th, 2012
1:32 pm
“and with a name like oblama I would not trust you to watch my dog!”
See how easy a name change works….
Ragnar Danneskjöld
March 28th, 2012
1:33 pm
“RomneyCare” – which has an individual mandate, similar to that of ObamaCare – is 75 pages long. ObamaCare is 2,400 pages long. Even if you excise the RomneyCare portion of ObamaCare, we still have 2.300 pages of left-wing social engineering. Don’t think leftists will be too sad if the individual mandate is killed but merely excised from the law. Don’t think conservatives will be satisfied with anything less than removal from the books. If Washington cannot micromanage a simple matter like the oil prices satisfactorily, I doubt it can micromanage the international health care market competently.
JamVet
March 28th, 2012
1:34 pm
Because he changes positions so often, you see.
HUGE LOL!
Specter is one ornery old coot, Bro!
Bruno
March 28th, 2012
1:35 pm
Why does every idiot in the media (that would be all of them) continue to treat insurance and health care as interchangable words?? Why does the media continue to treat health insurance as anything other than a pre-paid medical plan? Insurance is about paying to cover risks of the unknown, yet most medical plans are simply paying out money to cover basic maintenance in the hopes that we will get it all back by the end of the year? This is a massively destructive practise that raises the costs of everything.
Sorry, have to work today, not able to post much.
For all of you scratching your heads about how to “fix” healthcare, the first step is to clearly identify the problem. The problem is costs, period. Any other “problem” in health care is miniscule by comparison. As such, we would be best served to look at why our system is so expensive, as Mr. Liberty has attempted to do above.
Though it appears that many of you are having difficulty sorting it out, the root of all the high costs is the third-party payment system. Because people aren’t paying for care directly, a generalized indifference has overtaken the market and prices have climbed way out of line with other normal consumer costs. DF, who works in a hospital, has yet to explain why a 4 day stay in which only IV fluids were administered should cost $30,000.
Wake up, people.
Steve
March 28th, 2012
1:35 pm
What the hell is “left wing social engineering”? Good grief you cons kill me with your nonsense.
Oscar
March 28th, 2012
1:35 pm
getalife
______
Thomas is right. The justices do ask too many questions. And they make arguments with each other. That should be saved for the deliberations after the lawyers present their arguments.
JP
March 28th, 2012
1:35 pm
There are some pretty good arguments on both sides. So how do we still control costs? If everyone has insurance doesn’t that just stabilize insurance costs, not necessarily the actual costs for the health care services?
the real problem
March 28th, 2012
1:36 pm
Jay- your question is flawed from the start. The PROBLEM as you see it is people not being able to afford health care, the SOLUTION is not the government stepping in to basically redistrubute wealth to pay for it. The solution cannot and should not come from the government. How about taking care of yourself, getting a good education, avoiding legal problems, have better personal finance knowledge, spend your money wisely, don’t have kids if you can’t afford them. If more people basically were better citizens, we would have a lot less problems. So to answer your question, what’s the alternative to Obamacare, it’s people becoming self reliant. it’s a tough pill to swallow sure, but we don’t need govrnment controlling another aspect of our lives. The solution lies in each of us.
Oscar
March 28th, 2012
1:36 pm
What the hell is “left wing social engineering”? Good grief you cons kill me with your nonsense.
________
That would be opposite and opposed to “right wing social engineering”
Mick
March 28th, 2012
1:37 pm
doomy
Who cares about cheney anyway? He’s on his own death march, the stats say less than 5 years at his age…
JP
March 28th, 2012
1:38 pm
Good job Bruno, so how does a single payer lower costs and who would that single payer be? I am not trying to argue, just want to know.
Attention ALL Republicans on this blog!!
March 28th, 2012
1:38 pm
Medicare Fraud Who Pays for It (our current healthcare system)
Medicare and Medicaid made an estimated $23.7 billion in improper payments in 2007. These included $10.8 billion for Medicare and $12.9 billion for Medicaid. Medicare’s fee-for-service reduced its error rate from 4.4 percent to 3.9 percent. (U.S. Office of Management and Budget, 2008)
http://www.insurancefraud.org/medicarefraud.htm
William
March 28th, 2012
1:38 pm
“Is health care a human right, or can it be denied to those who are unable to pay for it? If you want to bring market forces to bear on the problem, you pretty much have to take the second approach. But so far we have been unwilling to embrace it. The Reagan-era law requiring emergency rooms to treat patients regardless of ability to pay still stands as de facto acceptance that health care is a right.”
I don’t believe it is a right, as I think rights are individual and should not depend upon the actions of others to realize them. However, healthcare is an indispensable commodity and should be, by law, affordable and available to all should they want it (even those with pre-existing conditions). Yet I think it is everyone’s duty to be personally responsible. So I would say that we can compel people to buy insurance by making it so that, if one cannot pay for it out of his own pocket, he cannot receive medical care without insurance. The Reagan-era law regarding ER visits has to go; we can no longer afford to pay for the irresponsibility of others.