If ObamaCare dies, what then?
It’s June, and the heart of ObamaCare, the individual mandate, has just been struck down by the Supreme Court in a 5-4 vote.
What now?
In discussions today, the justices will hear debate about whether they can kill the mandate and leave the rest of the legislation intact, or whether the entire structure comes tumbling down without the mandate.
That legal debate aside, as a practical matter I think it’s clear that without the mandate, insurance companies cannot be required to cover pre-existing conditions, which goes to the heart of what health-insurance reform is supposed to achieve.
If individuals can go without insurance as long as they’re healthy, then force the insurance companies to cover them when they get ill, the whole concept of insurance goes out the window. It is no longer sustainable. That’s precisely why the Heritage Foundation, Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney, among others, embraced and pushed the mandate approach.
So again, what happens if the mandate disappears?
In the two years since ObamaCare was signed into law, congressional Republicans have campaigned on a policy of “repeal and replace.” In truth, they have made no real attempt to do either.
If the court rules against ObamaCare, of course, “repeal” becomes moot and attention turns to the “replace” part of the problem. Replace it with what?
As I’ve noted before, when I had the chance to discuss the issue with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and Sen. Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, neither could offer even the slightest idea for how to solve the problem without a mandate. That is also true for the Republican Party as a whole.
What little thinking they’ve done on the issue seems to coalesce around the idea that the problem in health care is third-party insurance, whether acquired through private companies or through the government. The philosophy seems to be that if people are forced to pay out of their own pockets for health care, instead of relying on other parties to pay for it, market forces will once again come into play and the health-care market will begin to behave more like the market for wheat or automobiles.
Theoretically, it makes sense. But people don’t live theoretically. Theory doesn’t explain how a family can pay for one child’s apendectomy and another child’s broken leg out of its own resources. It doesn’t explain how an elderly couple on a fixed income can pay for their medicine and doctor visits. Pristine economic models don’t begin to get us where we need to be.
If ObamaCare is overturned, the fundamental questions that we were all asking three or four years ago will once again come to the forefront:
Is health care a human right, or can it be denied to those who are unable to pay for it? If you want to bring market forces to bear on the problem, you pretty much have to take the second approach. But so far we have been unwilling to embrace it. The Reagan-era law requiring emergency rooms to treat patients regardless of ability to pay still stands as de facto acceptance that health care is a right.
And if health care is a right — if we are not willing to deny health care to those unable to pay for it — how will we as a nation and society cover those costs? ObamaCare attempts to provide an answer to that question. If that answer proves unacceptable to a majority on the U.S. Supreme Court, what’s the next answer?
Come June, that could become a powerful question in a presidential campaign that will be hitting its full stride right about then.
– Jay Bookman
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891 comments Add your comment
Steve
March 28th, 2012
11:55 am
The only plan the GOP has is to ensure their wealthy insurance company donors stay fat and happy. America, be damned.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2012
11:56 am
“How long will it take before americans wake up and realize that EVERYTHING govenrment touches it makes far worse – including medicine?”
I’m sure our armed forces would be very interested in your opinion of them
Mother of Two
March 28th, 2012
11:56 am
Generation$crewed
March 28th, 2012
8:54 am
What if they are over 23 and working on their Masters? Under the old law, they will not be able to stay on the health insurance.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
11:56 am
For those who refuse to insure themselves privately through choice or expense, start a government pool, and let them volunteer themselves for it
Conservatives were adamantly against a public option… Not gonna happen now if it didn’t happen then.
Paul
March 28th, 2012
11:56 am
I scanned through some, not all, seeking an answer to the question “ObamaCare attempts to provide an answer to that question. If that answer proves unacceptable to a majority on the U.S. Supreme Court, what’s the next answer?”
I read talking points, generalities, sound bites and theory. Nothing specific.
It appears the Republican Party is the party of whining, not ideas.
If anybody has an answer to ‘what then?” I’d love to hear it. Haven’t heard ‘it’ for two years and November’s fast approaching. Time’s running out to convince voters Republicans actually have a practical idea on the subject.
John Galt
March 28th, 2012
11:57 am
Reading the questions being asked at the Supreme Court today suggest ObamaCare is done. The liberal justices are making the case to tread lightly while the conservative judges are stating they are not going to go line by line on this abomination of a law.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
11:57 am
oblama
March 28th, 2012
11:47 am
Fred – I can tell you listen to the lies on NBC, CNN, etc.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can’t tell a damn thing. You have yet to make a post that has one shred of truth or sense in it. You show our true colors by using, what you think is a clever insult to our President’s name. That right there shows you don’t have too much sense and that you are a dyed in the wool card carrying Republican. An independent, like butch and I, would have a screen name like that. Oh wait, we DON’T do we?
You show your true colors in that you have called anyone who doesn’t walk lock step with the drivel you spew a “communist, socialist,” or other (to you) derogatory terms. I know, you don’t listen to Limbaugh or FOX, it’s just COINCIDENCE that everything you say is what they say and how they say it.
Yawn………….
JohnnyReb
March 28th, 2012
11:57 am
To Becky and Aquagirl – this is an opinion blog. If I wish to have an exchange I will address someone by name. Since you opened the insult door, let me just add that I was dispensing with stupid opinions from skirts like you before you were even a glimmer in your daddy’s eye. Don’t provoke me.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
11:58 am
Why does the federal government use its actual and intended legal authority to regulate (make regular) the sale of insurance accross state lines and allow these sales so that greater competition will bring down prices?
Insurance can already be purchased across state lines. The insurance company only has to meet the requirements set forth by the state they’re trying to expand to.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2012
11:59 am
“Insurance can already be purchased across state lines”
Yep, sure can. For years I had BCBS of Alabama as my insurance carrier.
Steve
March 28th, 2012
11:59 am
We should all be writing our Congresspeople and other federal leaders to purchase their own private health insurance and get off of their socialized healthcare (Congress, Justices, President).
Paul
March 28th, 2012
12:01 pm
Bruno
“Butch–”Free rider” costs run about 8% of the total, very little of which will be recovered through the mandate.”
It may be time to revise that data point. If you listen to the recording or read the transcript of yesterday’s SCOTUS arguments, you will find even the plaintiffs acknowledged the uninsured impose ’substantial’ (not ‘only n%’) costs on others.
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2012
12:01 pm
“We should all be writing our Congresspeople and other federal leaders to purchase their own private health insurance and get off of their socialized healthcare (Congress, Justices, President”
Why should the President and the Congress have to get off? They passed the bill and it was signed to get insurance to everyone. Seems to me they’re clear on that one.
Grits
March 28th, 2012
12:02 pm
Jay you love socialism so much why don’t you move to a country that has it?
Fetus on a stick
March 28th, 2012
12:02 pm
The mandate isn’t based on the issue of pre-existing conditions. The mandate makes the government a coercive legal force, instead of a restrictive forces as it is designed. That’s the basal issues. If this were simply a matter of doing away with penalizing pre-existing conditions, the language of the law would simply state that a person cannot be refused coverage on the basis of pre-existing conditions.
It’s the liberal working mantra. Take any issue and associate it with a pretty word or phrase, like ‘for the children’, so then when you are against something that is clearly unconstitutional or intrusive, your not against an unconstitutional law, your against ‘the children’.
As we have in this case, your not against an unconstitutional law, that is expensive, poorly concieved and unconstitutional, your against people with pre-existing conditions.
And you wonder why people think your dumb…
Go Navy
March 28th, 2012
12:03 pm
USMC
March 28th, 2012
9:20 am
I thought that the fake Marine had been ran out of town. I wonder if he received an “Honorable Dischage”?
oblama
March 28th, 2012
12:04 pm
Looney – you are what you say you are. Are you off of your lithium again? Just the opposite – I don’t twant the government doing anything for me that I can do myself- unlike those that want the government to raise they children from daycare to retirement.
Go Navy
March 28th, 2012
12:06 pm
“Honorable Dischage”?
spelling..
HONORABLE DISCHARGE
jconservative
March 28th, 2012
12:06 pm
“The Reagan-era law requiring emergency rooms to treat patients regardless of ability to pay still stands as de facto acceptance that health care is a right.”
This is the problem. As long as this law is on the books nothing but a mandate will resolve the issue of ME paying for YOUR hospital and doctor bills.
In effect the Reagan Law is a “single payer system”. Do not buy insurance, get sick, go to the hospital and your bills will be paid.
To get around this problem Heritage Foundation, Gingrich, Governor Romney and several Republican bills over the years have said that the mandate is the only solution.
Here is a little lesson in “mandate history” for all you youngsters who do not remember the discussion.
Here is a quote from the Heritage Foundation’s Oct. 2, 1989 article “Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans” by Stuart M. Butler: This is the start of the serious discussion of the mandate to resolve health care.
“Society does feel a moral obligation to insure that its citizens do not suffer from the unavailability of health care. But on the other hand, each household has the obligation, to the extent it is able, to avoid placing demands on society by protecting itself…
A mandate on households certainly would force those with adequate means to obtain insurance protection.”
In November 1993 two Republican bills – Consumer Choice Health Security Act (SB 1743) , sponsored by Senator Don Nickles (R-OK) & 24 Republican cosponsors and The Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act (SB 1770), sponsored by Senator John H. Chafee (R-RI) & 20 cosponsors (2-D, 18-R) were introduced but failed. Both contained a mandate requiring all citizens to participate, (plus SB1770 provided for a religious exception).
In January 2007 The Healthy Americans Act (SB 334) sponsored by Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR) & 17 cosponsors (7-D, 1-I, 9-R) was introduced but failed. This bill also included a mandate and a religious exception. This plan set forth penalties for failure to comply.
And now we have “Obamacare”. The Democrats finally passed the Republican health care plan.
But anyone paying attention just knew that when Bush’s Medicare Part D plan, the first new entitlement in 38 years, passed in 2003 that some type of universal healthcare would pass Congress within a decade.
getalife
March 28th, 2012
12:06 pm
grits.
You leave con.
Old Timer
March 28th, 2012
12:07 pm
Why don’t we deal with costs first? That’s the core of the problem. Instead of spending trillions on insurance plans to fatten the insurance industry, why don’t we use the money to flood the country with medical schools? And don’t tell me we don’t have citizens who can qualify for admission. We have PhD candidates in other fields who can run intellectual rings around most of the physicians in practice today. Right now, you can’t even get into a medical school without a letter of recommendation from a licensed physician—again, the medieval craft guild at work.
Let’s work on the supply of medical services, which is currently the core of the problem. Strangely, you’ll hear a lot of free enterprisers on here who demand to let the market work in other areas. But you won’t hear a peep from them about the artificial constraints now imposed on the medical industry.
Not all physicians have to earn hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. We’re perfectly content to let a college professor with a PhD—a program often more rigorous than most MD programs—earn maybe $75,000.
And I’ll remind you that those people you trust to come up with the ingredients for the annual flu shots and to track and thwart deadly diseases are physicians—and you can bet the federal government isn’t paying them what your GP makes. They’re on a Civil Service scale.
It’s your choice—you can sit around trying to bypass a system that’s driven by costs, or you can work on the costs.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
12:09 pm
oblama
March 28th, 2012
12:04 pm
Looney – you are what you say you are. Are you off of your lithium again? Just the opposite – I don’t twant the government doing anything for me that I can do myself- unlike those that want the government to raise they children from daycare to retirement.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
MAN you have those Republican bumper stickers down pat. They make up 95% or your posts. But since they are all YOUR original no republican ideas, I think you ought to sue those theirvin’ bastiches that are stealing all your good ideas and lines………
Bruno
March 28th, 2012
12:10 pm
But you have to admit that if one doesn’t have an alternative one is just mindlessly whining.
Fred–The default alternative plan for any new proposal is to do nothing, to continue with the system you have. And, if doing nothing can be shown to be better than doing something new, then doing nothing–i.e. no plan–is the best course of action. As Jay referenced above, over-reliance on the third-party payment system is what has gotten us in the situation we are, in which medical costs are waaaaay out of line with other normal consumer costs.
Do you think you can ever get away from your immature partisan BS and think for yourself for a change??
Steve
March 28th, 2012
12:10 pm
You know what’s sad? If this is struck down and we keep things as they are, health insurance costs rise. I can afford it – it won’t hit me that hard, but I’m doing well financially. This will, however, continue to suck the life out of our economy and hurt the 99%. Very sad, indeed.
Thomas
March 28th, 2012
12:10 pm
Under your theory, I acting as a single consumer without access to those experts, etc., will have more power to force insurance companies to lower costs than does Cox Enterprises
Hey Jay- you may want to google PEOs- they do the same thing for small employers
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
12:11 pm
Grits – “Jay you love socialism so much why don’t you move to a country that has it?”
Thank you! Hopefully he’ll take all the people whining about gas prices with him. Since the only way they could be lowered to everyones liking would be through the nationalization of the industry which, as you know, is “socialism”.
Generation$crewed
March 28th, 2012
12:12 pm
Everyone has to see the humor in the situation.
We have a former constitutional lawyer possibly has signed into law something unconstitutional.
Also if the mandate and/or the law is deemed unconstitutional, will the justices borrow Nancy Pelosi’s gavile or is she going to cry and take her football and go home?
Paul
March 28th, 2012
12:13 pm
jconservative
“Here is a little lesson in “mandate history” for all you youngsters who do not remember the discussion.”
This is great timing. I’m sitting in a auto dealer waiting room and Fox is on the tv. 15 minutes ago they had on the guy from Heritage who came up with the mandate. I thought ‘this is gonna be good. They’re probably reeling from the negative publicity.” Interviewer said “we’ve heard Pres Obama say the mandate is a Republican and Heritage idea. Is that true? Is the mandate a Republican idea?”
Guy looked in the camera and said ‘no.’
He then proceeded to talk and talk and talk and essentially said “we came up with it in response to something. We abandoned it ten years ago. We now think other means are better, like subsidies.”
Subsidies? Advocated by Heritage?
Guy didn’t know when to stop talking.
Some might have bought his revisionist line.
Bruno
March 28th, 2012
12:13 pm
I read talking points, generalities, sound bites and theory. Nothing specific.
It appears the Republican Party is the party of whining, not ideas.
If anybody has an answer to ‘what then?” I’d love to hear it. Haven’t heard ‘it’ for two years and November’s fast approaching. Time’s running out to convince voters Republicans actually have a practical idea on the subject.
Paul–I’ve been putting up practical suggestions for the longest time. See Oldtimer’s 12:07 for some of the ideas.
But keep up the partisan BS, why don’t you, and you’ll end up with about as much credibility as Fred.
Partisay
March 28th, 2012
12:15 pm
“How long will it take before americans wake up and realize that EVERYTHING govenrment touches it makes far worse – including medicine?”
Dang interstate system. So screwed up. Wish we had 2 lane highways to travel across the country like we used to. Everybody knows that was WAY better because, you know, EVERYTHING govenrment touches it makes far worse.
Aquagirl
March 28th, 2012
12:16 pm
Don’t provoke me.
http://imgur.com/gFD5o
Thomas
March 28th, 2012
12:18 pm
Thank you! Hopefully he’ll take all the people whining about gas prices with him. Since the only way they could be lowered to everyones liking would be through the nationalization of the industry which, as you know, is “socialism
100% false- may want to google historical crude prices. Strong relationship with the US$ which is being destroyed by current policy
100% false my man
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
12:18 pm
Bruno – “And, if doing nothing can be shown to be better than doing something new, then doing nothing–i.e. no plan–is the best course of action.”
Agreed. However, if a party derides a plan under the auspices of replacing it, then it is only appropriate that said party would have an alternate plan to present. In this case, the Republicans say that Obamacare needs to be “Repealed and Replaced”. By making that statement it inherently dictates that there is a Republican plan that can be used as a comparative to Obamacare. If the Republicans think that doing nothing is the correct course of action, then they should simply say that they have no workable plan and do not intend to offer one as their solution.
BeeJay
March 28th, 2012
12:18 pm
Health care ISN’T a right. Show me where. And Republicans are not the only ones against Obamacare. Who the heck wants the government administering health care???? God, no.
Common Sense
March 28th, 2012
12:19 pm
‘You know what’s sad?’
That if we had a robust economy where employers were competing for workers, this would not even be an issue.
The economy is the overriding factor that needs to be addressed.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
12:19 pm
Do you think you can ever get away from your immature partisan BS and think for yourself for a change??
Where did THAT BS come from? I’m asking what the Republican’s plan. Obviously your answer is nothing. Business as usual. Yet you yourself say that “business as usual” sucks and isn’t working. There is no need to get insulting. I didn’t insult you.
Fred–The default alternative plan for any new proposal is to do nothing, to continue with the system you have. And, if doing nothing can be shown to be better than doing something new, then doing nothing–i.e. no plan–is the best course of action.
I can buy that except, doing nothing isn’t going to work. It may be better than the Obama plan, but that’s a pretty weak excuse to not propose anything. Talk about getting off the partisan thinking and thinking for your self, come on Bruno. Hold your leadership accountable, don’t make weak ass excuses for them.
Luckily, I’m covered. I have one hell of a healthcare plan. It’s cheap too. Low co-pays, high benefits. I’m set. But too many aren’t. Too many are getting ripped off. Hell, I’m sure the Company that provides my sweetheart of a deal healthcare is getting grossly over charged. And they OWN hospitals, and clinics, and a med school.
Steve
March 28th, 2012
12:19 pm
Private = good vs govt = bad is getting so tiresome and old.
Paul
March 28th, 2012
12:19 pm
Bruno
Why don’t I what? I’m not one of those making the case for repeal.
BTW – nothing I’ve heard from you or from Old Timer has, I think, a chance of being embraced and passed by Congressional Republicans. Spending a ton of money on med schools? Republicans advocating spending a ton of money on a new start? Please -
robo
March 28th, 2012
12:20 pm
OK, just from that headline, it’s time to start a Secret Service file on Mr. Bookman :-0
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
12:20 pm
Paul
Quit being partisaned!!!!!!
Scooter
March 28th, 2012
12:21 pm
Is healthcare a right? Healthcare is provided by other individuals. Do you have a right to other individuals’ education, skills and labor? I feel you do not.
Steve
March 28th, 2012
12:22 pm
Mitt Romney is going to have a hard time living down this exchange with Jay Leno about pre-existing conditions last night on The Tonight Show:
JAY LENO: Well, suppose if they were never insured before?
MITT ROMNEY: Well, if they’re 45 years old and they show up they say ‘I want insurance because I’ve got a heart disease,’ it’s like hey guys, we can’t play the game like that. You’ve got to get insurance when you are well, and then if you get ill then you’re going to be covered.
sounds like he’s approving the mandate to me…
Common Sense isn't very Common
March 28th, 2012
12:22 pm
Aquagirl
Don’t provoke me.
—————————————
I ain’t skeerd of you.
You suffer from depth perception anyway.
Anyone who thinks 3 inches is 6 inches isn’t dangerous. SWING AND A MISS
Paul
March 28th, 2012
12:23 pm
Brosephus
I try, really, I do -
Amazing how disagreeing with someone’s opinion automatically makes one a partisan for the other side, isn’t it?
Steve
March 28th, 2012
12:24 pm
I should be voting Republican to keep my sweet deal alive…but I have a conscience, and I don’t want to live in armed gated communities while the rest of the country devolved into a 4th world nightmare.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
12:24 pm
But keep up the partisan BS, why don’t you, and you’ll end up with about as much credibility as Fred.
Typical neocon. Anyone who doesn’t walk lock step and say “Yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir” to the hard right fanatical line is an idiot, socialist, liberal whacko with no credibility.
That’s just pathetic Bruno and you also know it’s a lie. I haven’t attacked the Republican plan (well there isn’t one) any more than I’ve supported Obama care and you KNOW IT. Which means you are knowingly telling lies.
Shame on you.
oblama
March 28th, 2012
12:24 pm
Oblama and his wife got rich off of class action law suits – mostly related to civil rights. More power to them. That was not meant to be criticism. Guess that is honest work. Just pointing out he has no background in health care – I do. Of course he has advisers – unfortunately they all believe that more and more layers of government is the answer to everything. I understand what you are saying about people going to E.R.s for a cold, etc. and agree that they should be going to an out patient clinic instead. The whole idea of a Fed run healthcare system is what I don’t agree with – not just mandated insurance. The Fed is to inept – costs will only go up.
Abrazos
March 28th, 2012
12:25 pm
The five activist Supremes on the Roberts court decided to kill ACA the day it was passed. The arguments taking place now are serving simply as backfill for their foregone conclusion. Scalia’s weak attempt at humor with his broccoli and exercise comments yesterday were obviously not an embarrassment to him, but the sophmoric argument of that self-described “brilliant jurist” was an insult to those of us who expect a sense of gravitas on a life-or-death issue to many Americans.
What’s going to happen when, not if, HCA dies? Absolutely nothing to me or mine. If the “freedom lovers” want to lose everything they have because they can’t pay their medical bills, or see their loved ones die because they can’t get insurance for pre-existing conditions, may they rejoice in the knowledge that their poverty and despair was hard-fought and self-generated.
getalife
March 28th, 2012
12:25 pm
Usually, when both sides of partisan hacks hate something like this bill, it is usually pretty good.
russia is smacking willard around like a puppy peeing on their carpet.
Don't Tread
March 28th, 2012
12:25 pm
“The country needs a health care tax, and provide health care to its citizens. If you want private too, well knock yourself out, but you still pay the tax. Do it and get over it.”
Sounds a lot like “give me what I want and you pay for it”. Democrats call it “compromise”.
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
12:25 pm
Thomas – “100% false- may want to google historical crude prices. Strong relationship with the US$ which is being destroyed by current policy”
Great, for a moment I mistook you for one of those “drill here, drill now, pay less” pinheads.
At least you acknowledge that more drilling by private enterprise will do nothing to lower gas prices exclusively for the U.S..
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
12:25 pm
Paul
Yeah, and by that token you’re probably the most partisaned person on the board.
Paul
March 28th, 2012
12:27 pm
oblama
“Oblama and his wife got rich off of class action law suits – mostly related to civil rights.”
Really? And all this time I thought you did nothing but organize communities and serve in Illinois state governments and didn’t get rich ’till you wrote a book.
And why do you refer to yourself in the third person? Are you a secret Bob Dole fan?
They BOTH suck
March 28th, 2012
12:27 pm
“Oblama and his wife got rich off of class action law suits – mostly related to civil rights”
If you can not provide that information, let me be the 1st to say that your post today is nothing more than the stupidity you most the vast majority of time
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
12:28 pm
oblama – “Oblama and his wife got rich off of class action law suits – mostly related to civil rights.”
Seriously, I’ll need you to provide support for this as well as your previous posts. And while your at it, admit that you are actually Mighty Righty and we can all acknowledge you as an idiot and move on with our lives.
Talking Head
March 28th, 2012
12:28 pm
If ObamaCare dies, this will embolden the Republican party for the Nov elections. Obama’s base will be demoralized and independants who by a large margin oppose the Not-so Affordable care act will confirm their view that Obama is ideoligcally an extreme.
Obama will lose the president, the senate will flip and go to the republicans and the House will remain in the same hands.
Maybe than the republicans will wake up and bring some sanity. They must stop the explosive increase in government started and continued under both republican and democratic adminstrations.
If not, they will find themselves out of power in another 2 yrs.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
12:29 pm
Steve
March 28th, 2012
12:24 pm
I should be voting Republican to keep my sweet deal alive…but I have a conscience, and I don’t want to live in armed gated communities while the rest of the country devolved into a 4th world nightmare.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
I dunno. I might could. I mean if they let me man the walls and take potshots at the poor people…………..
Tommy Maddox
March 28th, 2012
12:30 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APUhVXImUhc
Seems like there are a lot of folks walking around with this mindset. Maybe that is why the Solicitor General had very few answers to defend bad legislation.
John Galt
March 28th, 2012
12:31 pm
After today’s SCOTUS questions, it’s safe to say:
“When Obamacare dies, what’s next?”
Eric Johnson
March 28th, 2012
12:31 pm
What are your college kids on your insurance? Heaven forbid that they be old enough to stand on their own two feet before taking on college.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
12:31 pm
Butch
I’m debating doing a “Drill here, Drill Now” and “Drill Baby Drill” tshirt using the images of the skeletons doing the different sex positions. I may as well try to profit off this upcoming election. I can tackle two issues at once, contraceptives and energy policy.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
12:32 pm
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
12:25 pm
Paul
Yeah, and by that token you’re probably the most partisaned person on the board.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can laugh all you want but i have him beat. I got called a white hating black man AND an Uncle Tom yesterday. It’s a personal best. Beat that.
getalife
March 28th, 2012
12:32 pm
I think of the mandate invented by the gop as the ultimate in corporate welfare.
The con sc activists proved they loved corporate welfare with citizen united.
I think they love this corporate welfare bill too.
DawgDad
March 28th, 2012
12:34 pm
“Was there any debating done when the GOP controlled both the White House and Congress? Seems like a good opportunity to do something then.”
There were certainly needed reforms, but doing nothing was FAR preferrable to Obamacare.
Intown
March 28th, 2012
12:35 pm
I am still so disappointed that the Dems wasted a once in an generation alignment of poltical power on health care reform that seems doomed to be struck down by the USSC. What a waste of a historic presidential election combined with majorities in the House and Senate. So much more good could’ve been done. What a waste.
Paul
March 28th, 2012
12:35 pm
Fred
I concede the crown to you!
BTW – that line of yours says a whole lot about some of the people on this blog. And it ain’t pretty.
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
12:35 pm
DawgDad – “but doing nothing was FAR preferrable to Obamacare.”
Then the GOP needs to change it’s mantra of “repeal and replace” with “repeal and do nothing”. I’m sure it would be a HUGE seller in the General Election.
Paul
March 28th, 2012
12:36 pm
Car’s ready, gotto go.
Later -
Woodstock Mike
March 28th, 2012
12:37 pm
Why don’t black people have a problem when a black man kills another black man? This consists of 90% of all African American murders. Interesting…
Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
March 28th, 2012
12:38 pm
Why are your college kids on your insurance?
Ummmm, because they don’t have money (or at least their jobs don’t that pay that well to be able to afford insurance) because they are concentrating on their school???
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
12:38 pm
Intown
March 28th, 2012
12:35 pm
I am still so disappointed that the Dems wasted a once in an generation alignment of poltical power on health care reform that seems doomed to be struck down by the USSC. What a waste of a historic presidential election combined with majorities in the House and Senate. So much more good could’ve been done. What a waste.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I dunno, Bill Clinton squandered a pretty good chance to do something. He had the House and Senate and even after he lost them, the Republicans would work with him.
I think he had the best chance to do great things of any President in my lifetime and all he was interested in was doing interns.
getalife
March 28th, 2012
12:38 pm
Not interesting mike.
We are discussing health care racist.
Steve
March 28th, 2012
12:39 pm
Woodstock Mike – Really?? How many black men shoot unarmed black men and then the police let them get off scott free? I’m waiting…
getalife
March 28th, 2012
12:40 pm
fred,
HillaryCare failed.
ObamaCare did not.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
12:40 pm
Oh look. Woodstock Mike finally sobered up from the weekend and is regaling us with his wisdom………..
oblama
March 28th, 2012
12:40 pm
Ferd- How come you know everything and we are all stupid? Label yourself independent if you wish to historically change the definition of independent. The thoughts that I have are mine – not Rush Limbaugh’s or from Fox. I don’t watch that garbage on NBC either. I think you voted for Oblama even if you won’t admit it. I voted for Ross Perot and I am proud to admit it. Oblama to me means blame the other side for everything and never admit that the Dems are just as responsible as the Repubs, for this Fed inept government and the debt crisis. That is what OblamaCare will be- inept and expensive.
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 28th, 2012
12:41 pm
“In the two years since ObamaCare was signed into law, congressional Republicans have campaigned on a policy of “repeal and replace.” In truth, they have made no real attempt to do either.”
The obvious reason is because the Dem Senate and Obama have no interest in anything the Rs will propose.
“The philosophy seems to be that if people are forced to pay out of their own pockets for health care, instead of relying on other parties to pay for it, market forces will once again come into play and the health-care market will begin to behave more like the market for wheat or automobiles.”
“Theoretically, it makes sense. But people don’t live theoretically’
There’s nothing theoretical about it sir. If people have to pay more for medical services directly out of their pocket as opposed to a 3rd party paying for it the indifference to the true cost of medical care will decrease. As will costs.
“The Reagan-era law requiring emergency rooms to treat patients regardless of ability to pay still stands as de facto acceptance that health care is a right.”
No sir. It does not mean it is a right. What it means is that as a compassionate nation that we will treat someone in an emergency situation and not just let them die in the ER. It doesn’t mean that we should be on the hook for paying for everyone’s routine care such as doc visits, routine drugs, etc.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
12:41 pm
getalife
March 28th, 2012
12:40 pm
fred,
HillaryCare failed.
ObamaCare did not.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes actually it DID fail. It’s going to be overturned today.
getalife
March 28th, 2012
12:41 pm
mike proves that this issue to too complicated for our cons to opine.
getalife
March 28th, 2012
12:43 pm
fred,
You ignorant slut
They decide in June.
Libertarian
March 28th, 2012
12:43 pm
Everyone who’s talking about car insurance…the main difference is that is a STATE requirement….Obamacare has a FEDERAL requirement. From a constitutional perspective, the federal government is supposed to have limited powers.
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
12:44 pm
Libertarian – “From a constitutional perspective, the federal government is supposed to have limited powers.”
I agree, when can we expect to see the TSA disbanded?
Woodstock Mike
March 28th, 2012
12:44 pm
Really?? How many black men shoot unarmed black men and then the police let them get off scott free? I’m waiting…
This comment above shows the incredible stupidity of the author. Try there are hundreds and hundreds of unarmed black people killed each year by other black people and nobody was arrested. Wake up man or don’t speak.
Aquagirl
March 28th, 2012
12:45 pm
Not interesting mike.We are discussing health care racist.
I guess Mike thinks we’ve forgotten his morning faceplant of “Y U no write about my pet peeve?”
Here we go!
March 28th, 2012
12:45 pm
If ObamaCare is repealed, I think it actually helps the dems in this election. This whole thing started with rising health care cost and the amount of people without insurance. What have the repubs done to help that? The Dems at least have tried. This country has to do something about its citizenry. We cannot allow only the rich to have insurance and that is what is happening. Doing something is FAR better than doing nothing. I cannot stand around and watch people die because they lack insurance. This IS NOT what America is about.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
12:45 pm
getalife: Just for you……….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k80nW6AOhTs
Do you remember the one he did when he went all the way through his whole tirade at Jane without saying “Jane you ignorant slut” paused and then yelled it lol?
They BOTH suck
March 28th, 2012
12:45 pm
Oblama
Since all your thoughts are yours than back up your Obama making money off of lawsuit BS………
Thought so….
Problem with all you thoughts being yours…… they are almost always void of fact
SwamiDave
March 28th, 2012
12:46 pm
Abrazoz:
You said: The arguments taking place now are serving simply as backfill for their foregone conclusion.
You are correct that it appears the conclusion was determined before the arguments. Unfortunately, it appears as if we will have 4 activist members in the minority who provide evidence of how at risk our nation really is. ACA is unconstitutional and should go down 9-0 were the Supreme Court to decide it on constitutional basis.
It was Kagan who was laughably sophmoric in her blatherings in support of the legislation that her former boss signed. She attempted a lame comparison to emission controls on cars in her apparent defense that govenment has the authority to mandate citizens purchase health insurance; comparable to the equally lame comparisons to requirements to purchase car insurance.
In each of those cases, Americans are required to purchase insurance or follow emission standards IF THEY ELECT TO DRIVE A CAR! Five year old children who do cannot drive are not required to purchase car insurance! The individual mandate places an active requirement upon citizens; not based on some decision they made, but their very state of being.
Under a constitutional government that is by, of, and for the people in which the government is granted limited powers by the consent of the governed, there is no basis for government authority to enforce a mandate predicated on your existence.
As for what will happen when it dies, the issue should be a question that is dealt with at the state level. Your health care and the decisions surrounding it should be your decision.
-SD
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 28th, 2012
12:46 pm
Steve
March 28th, 2012
12:39 pm
Woodstock Mike – Really?? How many black men shoot unarmed black men and then the police let them get off scott free? I’m waiting…
Steve,
Happens all the time sir. The no-snitch attitude in many a tough inner city neighborhoods means that rather than cooperate with the cops to solve a black on black murder that the folks in the hood would rather just let the crime go unsolved. Its only when a white Hispanic man shoots a black teen that they get all outraged. I wonder why that is? Could it be…. reverse racism?
Woodstock Mike
March 28th, 2012
12:46 pm
Interesting how quickly a Democrat will call someone a racist. It’s a political strategy and simply pathetic. I said how many black people kill black people and I am labeled a racist. You guys are pathetic.
Thomas
March 28th, 2012
12:47 pm
At least you acknowledge that more drilling by private enterprise will do nothing to lower gas prices exclusively for the U.S..
????? No simpy pointing our your false statements
They BOTH suck
March 28th, 2012
12:47 pm
“Try there are hundreds and hundreds of unarmed black people killed each year by other black people and nobody was arrested.”
Authorities knew the suspects and made no arrests? Really?
Speaking of stupidity…………………. Time to look into a mirror for some reflection time
getalife
March 28th, 2012
12:49 pm
fred,
I do remember.
We stopped the party to watch SNL every Saturday night then went back to partying.
Libertarian
March 28th, 2012
12:49 pm
SwamiDave
March 28th, 2012
12:46 pm
Kagan was even trying to help the solicitor general make his arguments better…no, she’s not biased at all.
They BOTH suck
March 28th, 2012
12:49 pm
TD
Your comment to Steve is not while having some merit, isn’t what Woodstock posted…………
You can take that tangent and run with it, but it isn’t what Steve was replying too
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
12:50 pm
Thomas – “????? No simpy pointing our your false statements”
Okay, what would you have the government do to strengthen the dollar so that China and India will reduce their oil dependence and in turn lower our fuel costs?
Rickster
March 28th, 2012
12:50 pm
“If individuals can go without insurance as long as they’re healthy, then force the insurance companies to cover them when they get ill, the whole concept of insurance goes out the window.”
Exactly, Jay. You should buy insurance BEFORE you get sick – not after. You can’t drive uninsured – then buy a policy after a wreck – and expect the insurer fix it. You have to buy the policy before the wreck.
Same thing with health insurance.
You can’t go uninsured till you get diagnosed with cancer, then buy a policy & expect the company to pay.
They BOTH suck
March 28th, 2012
12:51 pm
TD
meant to say……….. “Your comment to Steve while having some merit, isn’t what Woodstock posted………… “
Woodstock Mike
March 28th, 2012
12:52 pm
If Trayvon Martin was murdered in cold blood Zimmerman will face life in prison. If it’s found that Trayvon Martin was beating Zimmerman’s face in and smashing his head against the concrete he will get man slaghter.
You can’t go around smashing people’s faces into concrete or you may get shot.
Billybob
March 28th, 2012
12:52 pm
jay,
if it’s ruled unconstitutional the first thing we do is to admit we have a president and a radical democratic party that tried to force all americans to accept an unconstitutional dictate and a gov’t takeover of 16% of the US economy……..the first thing we do is realize that the radical dem party’s thirst for power led them to do this…….the first thing we do is to take the power away from the radical democratic politicians who tried to force their radical ideas on the entire nation with no regard for the constitution……first we vote obama and many dems out of office in Nov 2012……….if obamacare is ruled unconstitutional, the dems and obama’s radeical nature will never be questioned again and he is toast……good times jay………what did hussein mean when talking to medvedev? enlighten us all………