If ObamaCare dies, what then?
It’s June, and the heart of ObamaCare, the individual mandate, has just been struck down by the Supreme Court in a 5-4 vote.
What now?
In discussions today, the justices will hear debate about whether they can kill the mandate and leave the rest of the legislation intact, or whether the entire structure comes tumbling down without the mandate.
That legal debate aside, as a practical matter I think it’s clear that without the mandate, insurance companies cannot be required to cover pre-existing conditions, which goes to the heart of what health-insurance reform is supposed to achieve.
If individuals can go without insurance as long as they’re healthy, then force the insurance companies to cover them when they get ill, the whole concept of insurance goes out the window. It is no longer sustainable. That’s precisely why the Heritage Foundation, Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney, among others, embraced and pushed the mandate approach.
So again, what happens if the mandate disappears?
In the two years since ObamaCare was signed into law, congressional Republicans have campaigned on a policy of “repeal and replace.” In truth, they have made no real attempt to do either.
If the court rules against ObamaCare, of course, “repeal” becomes moot and attention turns to the “replace” part of the problem. Replace it with what?
As I’ve noted before, when I had the chance to discuss the issue with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and Sen. Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, neither could offer even the slightest idea for how to solve the problem without a mandate. That is also true for the Republican Party as a whole.
What little thinking they’ve done on the issue seems to coalesce around the idea that the problem in health care is third-party insurance, whether acquired through private companies or through the government. The philosophy seems to be that if people are forced to pay out of their own pockets for health care, instead of relying on other parties to pay for it, market forces will once again come into play and the health-care market will begin to behave more like the market for wheat or automobiles.
Theoretically, it makes sense. But people don’t live theoretically. Theory doesn’t explain how a family can pay for one child’s apendectomy and another child’s broken leg out of its own resources. It doesn’t explain how an elderly couple on a fixed income can pay for their medicine and doctor visits. Pristine economic models don’t begin to get us where we need to be.
If ObamaCare is overturned, the fundamental questions that we were all asking three or four years ago will once again come to the forefront:
Is health care a human right, or can it be denied to those who are unable to pay for it? If you want to bring market forces to bear on the problem, you pretty much have to take the second approach. But so far we have been unwilling to embrace it. The Reagan-era law requiring emergency rooms to treat patients regardless of ability to pay still stands as de facto acceptance that health care is a right.
And if health care is a right — if we are not willing to deny health care to those unable to pay for it — how will we as a nation and society cover those costs? ObamaCare attempts to provide an answer to that question. If that answer proves unacceptable to a majority on the U.S. Supreme Court, what’s the next answer?
Come June, that could become a powerful question in a presidential campaign that will be hitting its full stride right about then.
– Jay Bookman
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891 comments Add your comment
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
10:46 am
Steve Atl – “Between gas prices, unemployment, the deficit, and the Obamacare mess…I think I am going to have to go with Romney in 2012.”
Do you also feel that by ordering Miller Lite instead of Miller that you are accomplishing significant change as well?
@2
March 28th, 2012
10:47 am
what then?
A single-license approach.
This article shows how many of the problems of the current system can be addressed without resorting to a large scale intrusion of federal regulators into insurance markets. The proposed solution calls for minimal federal intervention to provide for jurisdictional competition between states that would be allowed to charter insurers that could operate nationally with only the single license granted by the charter.
This single-license approach addresses the most salient concerns of proponents of federal optional chartering. It also has the potential for triggering competition and innovation in insurance products and rates while preserving a meaningful role for state regulation.
Kramer
March 28th, 2012
10:47 am
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
10:38 am
So let me see if I follow the logic: If you don’t buy heath insurance, and you get sick, it’s your problem and you shouldn’t expect the government to fix it for you. However, If you buy a gigantic SUV that rolls around at 10 MPG and gas prices start to go up, it’s not your problem and government should be expected to fix it.
Gotcha.
Uh, OK, you talked me into liking obamacare because your logic was so spot on. Please, that was stupid even for you.
ralph
March 28th, 2012
10:48 am
So again, what happens if the mandate disappears?”
Go back to the drawing board and come up with something that doesn’t force Americans to buy a private product.
How can these GOP leaders say that we cannot force Americans to buy a private product, then why do I have to purchase automobile insurance (private product) to register and operate my car????
Kramer
March 28th, 2012
10:49 am
@2, the Obama people had a chance to go the way you posted. They went out of their way to avoid even looking at it? I guess the question is why?
Don't Forget
March 28th, 2012
10:49 am
Oscar, you’re stuttering. Slow down.
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
March 28th, 2012
10:49 am
Kramer – “blahblah…That has got to hurt ya’”
Everything you type hurts, but not in the way you seem to think,
Nothing is Free/GLL – Snap
Curtis Rivers
March 28th, 2012
10:50 am
Margaret Meade was asked what she considered to be the first sign that a society had reached the mark of being identified as “civilized.” She replied that it could be found in a healed broken femur: an injury from which one cannot recover without the aid of the society about them. Signs of this level of caring go as far back as discoveries about Neanderthal groups. If the mark of being known as a “civilized people” is reached by our having reached the point of caring for one another, then a significant number of us do not qualify, to include a significant segment of the GOP, the Tea Party, and other right-wing groups. Meade further remarked that savage societies are marked by clubs, bows and arrows, shattered skulls and other such marks of savagery. Paul Ryan’s budget, the blind following of Ayn Rand’s Objectivist Capitalism…do these not mark a descent into the madness of the savage?
A question
March 28th, 2012
10:50 am
Who wants to buy my lunch today? I spent all my money at the bar last night and I have a right to eat!
Don't Forget
March 28th, 2012
10:50 am
Bro,
did you see my post revealing that Z’s father is a former judge? That may explain why the detective was overruled.
Kramer
March 28th, 2012
10:51 am
Oh, sainty simons, you are such an angry person. I hope you get better one day or grow up. Which ever comes first.
hnbc
March 28th, 2012
10:51 am
I wish someone would explain to me how conservative Republicans in the early 90’s supported a program that would force everyone to have health insurance (either through work, Medicare or Medicaid) and now it is suddenly something really really bad?
Is it because a Democratic president got an Affordable Health Care Law passed and they couldn’t? Seems that Republicans would be happy something they wanted back in the 90’s has at long last, come to fruition.
Sure does confuse me!
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2012
10:51 am
“Where on earth are the liberals getting the idea that there will be no cost”
We aren’t. End of irrelevent rant.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
10:51 am
Mighty Righty
I’m not losing any argument. I’m merely questioning your reason for highlighting non-existent death panels while completely ignoring real ones. I have insurance, I will keep insurance, so the whole ACA debate doesn’t hurt me nearly as much as those who can’t get or afford healthcare. I’m only asking you to deal with reality instead of imaginary villians. However, you have more than made the case that you only fight fictional characters and refuse to engage with reality.
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
10:52 am
Kramer – Uh, OK, you talked me into liking obamacare because your logic was so spot on. Please, that was stupid even for you.”
Wasn’t trying to get anyone to “like” Obamacare” Personally, I think the whole concept is a waste of space. I simply do what I’ve always done. Pay for my own heatlh insurance and not run to the ER everytime the cold and flu season hits.
In regard to my analogy, I’m just a little tired of people standing on their soapboxes and railing against government intervention while at the same time begging for government intervention.
Whether you like Obamacare or not isn’t really my concern.
My Party has ALL the answers. Your party is full of poopyheads! (formerly That Black Guy)
March 28th, 2012
10:54 am
ByteMe – insurance thug
March 28th, 2012
9:21 am
Then it’s a slam dunk to be kept in place, because the government’s been doing that for years with auto insurance and business license certification renewal (you gotta take tests administered by private businesses).
___________________________________________________________________________
Wow, I didn’t know that if I don’t drive or own a car I STILL have to buy car insurance!
I didn’t know that if I don’t OWN a business I STILL have to get a business license!
If I’m an American citizen, I WILL be mandated to buy health insurance or pay a penalty.
Normal, Plain and Simple
March 28th, 2012
10:54 am
Man! Can’t you just feel the love here???!!!
oblama
March 28th, 2012
10:55 am
Oblamacare is socialism at it’s worst. It’s D. O. A. Next the government will be requiring everyone to eat certain foods and be a specific weight. Enough government already!
Kramer
March 28th, 2012
10:55 am
Curtis Rivers
March 28th, 2012
10:50 am
Margaret Meade was asked what she considered to be the first sign that a society had reached the mark of being identified as “civilized.” She replied that it could be found in a healed broken femur: an injury from which one cannot recover without the aid of the society about them. Signs of this level of caring go as far back as discoveries about Neanderthal groups. If the mark of being known as a “civilized people” is reached by our having reached the point of caring for one another, then a significant number of us do not qualify, to include a significant segment of the GOP, the Tea Party, and other right-wing groups. Meade further remarked that savage societies are marked by clubs, bows and arrows, shattered skulls and other such marks of savagery. Paul Ryan’s budget, the blind following of Ayn Rand’s Objectivist Capitalism…do these not mark a descent into the madness of the savage?
Curtis, you show us where socialism is working better then capitalism. This is not a bill to think by the heart, it is a bill that is either afforable or not. We need an overhaul of our system, just not this one. You liberals or socialist think that the ultra-rich will just be able to fund everything through their taxes. As it stands today, every class in this country will have to have a tax increase to help pay for this bill and the other mindless projects that Obama has in store.
Bill Orvis White
March 28th, 2012
10:55 am
Of course taxe$ will skyrocket, specialists will leave their jobs even more, death panels will be in full force, illegals will get care and many,many more folk will die waiting for approval to see a doctor! Why can’t anyone READ THIS ILLEGAL BILL! @OSCAR We NEED to get back to the original constructs of The Constitution. It’s a FACT that forcing folk to purchase a good that he does not want nor can afford, is a forced mandate, invasion of privacy and erodes his freedoms! It’s different with a car or house since he chooses to buy those goods and it makes business sense to insure those goods! READ THE BILL! READ THE BILL! GOOD NIGHT! Amen, Bill
Aquagirl
March 28th, 2012
10:56 am
Aquagirl, Grady is a mess of an operation and you know it.
I wouldn’t diss Grady—they’re the only level one trauma center that has the remotest chance of removing that bug lodged up your bum.
Normal, Plain and Simple
March 28th, 2012
10:56 am
I want the world to have the same money, same church and same government…with socialized medicine….then Rapture, BABY!!!
How come you Christians ain’t on board for that?
VaHi Guy
March 28th, 2012
10:56 am
without the mandate, insurance companies cannot be required to cover pre-existing conditions
Jay, covering pre-existing conditions was already mandated before the ACA in group plans (the coverage provided by employers). Some covered from day one, some have a six-month period of non-coverage before they become covered.
The ACA merely extends this to individual policies (and removes those non-coverage periods from corporate plans, of course).
Mr Right
March 28th, 2012
10:57 am
Sure does confuse me!
Poor you!
Kelly McCutchen
March 28th, 2012
10:57 am
Here is a comprehensive list of state-level reforms that would address many of the problems with the uninsured if the federal law is overturned: http://sites.google.com/site/georgiahealthreform2012/.
Common Sense
March 28th, 2012
10:57 am
“Same thing that always happens. Republicans will come up with something that the Democrats will kill…then the Democrats will come up with something the Republicans will kill….and so on and so on and so on!!”
And yet the Federal Government is bigger than it has ever been. Something must be getting through…
Kramer
March 28th, 2012
10:58 am
Butch, then I agree with what you stand for. That said, the government is supposed to protect it’s citizens not force its will. The only way government can help with the gas problem is to allow more refineries to be built. Not a single one has been built in 35 years. Unbelievable.
A question
March 28th, 2012
10:59 am
Jay do you have an Obama blow up doll?
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
10:59 am
oblama -”Next the government will be requiring everyone to eat certain foods and be a specific weight.”
Or drive a certain speed, or pay for other peoples children to go to school with other peoples tax dollars, or require that people who go to the ER be seen whether they can pay or not, or require that a certain % of income be given for Social Security. Oh the humanity!
Kramer
March 28th, 2012
10:59 am
Aquagirl
March 28th, 2012
10:56 am
Aquagirl, Grady is a mess of an operation and you know it.
I wouldn’t diss Grady—they’re the only level one trauma center that has the remotest chance of removing that bug lodged up your bum.
If I got a bug then you gotta have a mack truck up that big ole bun girlfriend! Wheeeew momma!
Oscar
March 28th, 2012
11:00 am
on’t Forget
__________
Sorry. Computer malfunction. System is supposed to reject duplicates.
Common Sense isn't very Common
March 28th, 2012
11:01 am
Aquagirl -
That’s because men have been telling women for years that 3 inches ARE 6 inches
Don't Forget
March 28th, 2012
11:01 am
Bill, if you can afford insurance but choose not to get it then you should refuse healthcare when your money runs out. If you don’t you are simply transferring risk and the assocaited cost to your fellow Americans.
Common Sense
March 28th, 2012
11:01 am
“How can these GOP leaders say that we cannot force Americans to buy a private product, then why do I have to purchase automobile insurance (private product) to register and operate my car????”
A better analogy would be the forcing of all people to buy auto insurance whether or not they have a car. That’s what Obamacare is. All the non-drivers help keep the costs down for those that do drive.
RB from Gwinnett
March 28th, 2012
11:02 am
Becky hasn’t figured out yet under OC,her unemployed husband would still be required to buy and pay for the insurance she claims he couldnt get.
oblama
March 28th, 2012
11:03 am
Repeal Medicare , change medicaid and health costs will go down – not up. The Fed government sets a FLOOR on what someone can charge legally for their services. For example, in Georgia it is illegal to charge anyone LESS than what medicaid pays for a Rx. Does that make sense? They aren’t legally allowed to charge less.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
11:03 am
Don’t Forget
I saw that. That would explain a bit, and that would make me like that decision even less.
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2012
11:04 am
If this healthcare effort fails, Republicans will pick up the slack by giving more to charity.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
11:05 am
Nothing will happen. the Republicans will stall anything that the Democrats propose and they won’t propose anything themselves. They haven’t so far.
Their next step will be to cease unemployment benfits……..
Aquagirl
March 28th, 2012
11:05 am
So, out of 300+ comments, does anyone except Kelly and @2 have a counter-proposal outside of “wahhhhhhhhhhh”?
Didn’t think so.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
11:05 am
The only way government can help with the gas problem is to allow more refineries to be built. Not a single one has been built in 35 years. Unbelievable.
Wanna volunteer your backyard or neighborhood for one to be built?
A question
March 28th, 2012
11:07 am
I got an answer aquagirl, MORE GOVERNMENT, thats what you want to hear right?
Steve Atl
March 28th, 2012
11:07 am
Butch – I think there is a significant difference between a shot of Tequila and Coors Light.
The economy is our biggest problem right now:
Romney – 25 years of successful experience in Finance and Economics
Obama – No experience…learning on the job
Enough said.
Oscar
March 28th, 2012
11:10 am
Obama ___ four years as being President
Romney ___ Capitalist corporate raider
Aquagirl
March 28th, 2012
11:10 am
That’s because men have been telling women for years that 3 inches ARE 6 inches
My female Drill Instructor had a GREAT joke about that, not repeatable here.
Common Sense
March 28th, 2012
11:11 am
“Wanna volunteer your backyard or neighborhood for one to be built?”
The original party on no started with that sort of logic. Using that logic, a refinery could be built nowhere. And that’s what we have.
oblama
March 28th, 2012
11:11 am
Butch – Glad to hear that you admit that the government should require you to eat certain foods and meet weight requirements. Sounds like you are an old fashioned socialist/ communist – China awaits you. You are free to go where socialism abounds. What’s holding you here in the U.S.A. which is still a democracy? Government should have limited powers and it’s way over the limit. Castro is waiting for your arrival.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
11:13 am
Steve Atl: Good point. Romney-25 years of experience gutting American companies and sending them over seas. He’s just PERFECT for this economy where the rich are getting richer and sending the jobs overseas. He has the blueprint for developing the economic might of China and other Aisian Countries using slave labor. You are a GENIUS.
As long as the Republican Congress can keep stalling and killing any programs that the Democrats come up with until November and Romney can get elected we’ll be great. After January once Romney takes office he can help ship the rest of our jobs off shore, deregulate Wall Street and the banks and life will be GRAND…………. if you are rich that is………
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
11:15 am
Steve Atl – “Romney – 25 years of successful experience in Finance and Economics”
Sounds like the perfect man to be Secretary of the Treasury. As for POTUS, not so much. But don’t take my word for it, just ask Santorum. Not knocking Romney, we were both trust fund babies and we both made a lot of money over the course of our careers. However, I just don’t see him bringing any new ideas to the table in regards to policy.
TaxPayer
March 28th, 2012
11:15 am
Beginning in 2014, employers offering a minimum level of health insurance coverage through an employer-sponsored plan and paying any portion of the costs of the plan are required to offer a free choice voucher to qualified employees.
I’m sure all Republicans are looking forward to that provision kicking in. After all, it is the sort of thing that Ryan has proposed and we know how much Republicans lover that Ryan yellowbrick roadmap.
Don't Forget
March 28th, 2012
11:16 am
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
11:03 am
Don’t Forget
I saw that. That would explain a bit, and that would make me like that decision even less.
True, and distressing but less so than a systemic bias IMO. It’s smaller scale, easier to detect and may be easier to correct in the future.
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
11:17 am
oblama – “What’s holding you here in the U.S.A. which is still a democracy?”
My kick ass apartment in NYC and the loads of money I made working in the financial sector.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
11:18 am
Common Sense
I don’t think it was a party thing. The refinery issue was a health thing. I don’t know of anybody who’s volunteered to have one built near their home.
Bruno
March 28th, 2012
11:19 am
Like most Progressive thoughts, individual responsibility is as foreign as Jupiter. The bleeding hearts that they are, the only acceptable solution is a one-size-fits-all solution that can only be controlled by the Feds.
JohnnyReb–I think your analysis here is correct. Unable to puzzle through the healthcare quagmire themselves, the liberals here are forced to defend a plan which will only make the overall situation worse.
You are literally urinating in the wind if you think that there’s some magical insurance formula for providing affordable healthcare to US citizens. We pay nurses who earn very rigorous BN degrees peanuts, but we think it’s perfectly OK if a licensed physician pulls in a half million bucks per year.
OldTimer @ 10:45–Congratulations for being the first person today to correctly identify what is wrong with our healthcare system: out-of-control prices. But, instead of applying a little thought and a little elbow grease to find ways to lower costs, the genius Democrats can only come up with a plan to spread the costs to more suckers.
Wake up, people. The medical industry has been ripping us all off for years. Why do you want to further entrench us in a system which isn’t working??
getalife
March 28th, 2012
11:20 am
cons will lose.
Our President is kicking willard booty in the swing States.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
11:21 am
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
11:17 am
oblama – “What’s holding you here in the U.S.A. which is still a democracy?”
My kick ass apartment in NYC and the loads of money I made working in the financial sector.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You know Butch it would be funny if it weren’t so sad. You HAVE all the cash you need and can pay for your healthcare and all that, yet you see the need for changes in the way things are done.
oblama is probably just barely above water (if at all) and one minor bump in the road from the poor house. Yet he’s listening to talk radio and fox and spouting their inane drivel and cutting his own throat.
Go figure…………….
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
11:21 am
Bruno – “But, instead of applying a little thought and a little elbow grease to find ways to lower costs, the genius Democrats can only come up with a plan to spread the costs to more suckers.”
I’m sorry, were the Republicans not allowed to come with a workable solution? Hell, they had the option to do it way back when I was still a member of the party.
oblama
March 28th, 2012
11:21 am
It would be a blessing to have someone build a refinery in my back yard because that would make me a millionaire. I have been trying to sell my land but no one will even offer at 1/2 of it’s appraised value in 2008. That’s our Oblama economy at work. Despite the Fed B.S. most of us are still in a recession. D.C. is in Never Never Land.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
11:22 am
Don’t Forget
I don’t think it will be corrected, at least not as long as people would have their job jeopardized because of making an arrest in such a case.
Andy
March 28th, 2012
11:22 am
DawgDad
March 28th, 2012
10:46 am
An opportunity ONCE AGAIN exists for debate of free-market approaches to insurance reforms, debate which was summarily suppressed by the Democratic Congress and Administration in the passage of Obamacare.
How many more years of debate is needed? Was there any debating done when the GOP controlled both the White House and Congress? Seems like a good opportunity to do something then. I didn’t follow politics very closely during most of those years but would like to hear if any solutions to this healthcare problem were proposed by the White House and/or Congress.
Thanks,
Senior Citizen Kane
March 28th, 2012
11:22 am
For all you who support the mandate, what if, at some point in the future when Republicans are in charge, it was decided that for the sake of public safety, every American must buy a gun? Would that be acceptable to you under the precedent set by ObamaCare? And yes, I know Kennesaw’s already done that, but the law was amended to allow people to opt out after it was challenged in court by the ACLU.
Adam
March 28th, 2012
11:23 am
The lack of an AFFIRMATIVE right written into the Constitution does not mean we do not, as a society and as a country, recognize a right. For example, the “right to vote” isn’t in the Constitution either. Yet, is voting a right? Who would answer no to this?
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
11:24 am
oblama -”It would be a blessing to have someone build a refinery in my back yard because that would make me a millionaire.”
Would you like me to send you some literature on the fabulous real estate opportunities available in Love Canal?
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
11:25 am
Bruno
The GOP had 2 years since the passing of the ACA to formulate a plan to do that. Why have they not presented a solid plan that American’s can easily follow? Would it not make a competent person be more inclined to want the ACA repealed if they can physically see and understand what will replace it and why it would be better? I understand all the negative responses to the ACA. My question is what happens if/when it’s done away with? Right now, it appears that we go back to the status quo, and the insurance companies are still ripping us off.
oblama
March 28th, 2012
11:25 am
Butch – you are not being a good socialist if you haven’t already given up your apartment and sent your money to D.C. Maybe you are just a liberal who wants to save the world with everyone’s money but your own – like Jimmy Carter.
Obama is over
March 28th, 2012
11:26 am
Your conversatioin with McConnell and Chamblis is kind of like having a conversation with Pelosi/Reid about having a Federal budget. They don’t really feel the need for one even though it is required by the Constitution.All they know is that they don’t like Ryan’s plan. The difference of course is that Obamacare is 2400 pages of pork and new agencies with no outside accountability. People forget about the Louisianna and Nebraska deals that were required to pass the legislation in the first place and I am sure that there are several more nasty surprises imbedded in the bill. The CBO has already raised the projected cost of Obamacare from $900 B to $1.7 Trillion. The Supreme Court is discussing the limitations of Federal Government power, not the need for healthcare despite Axelrod’s attempts to “personalize” the issue. I still find it amazing that we have an elected President organizing protests against the Supreme Court and fellow American citizens.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
11:27 am
But, instead of applying a little thought and a little elbow grease to find ways to lower costs, the genius Democrats can only come up with a plan to spread the costs to more suckers.
Please Bruno, enlighten us with the brilliant plan the REPUBLICANS have. I’ll wait.
Oh wait, their plan is “trash Obama.” Well they have done that now what? Last thing i remember is that (yet again) unfunded crap that Bush did for drugs and medicare. What am I missing?
What’s YOUR plan? I mean other than insulting “librerals” and Genius Democrats.” Fish, cut bait, or get the hell out of the boat.
getalife
March 28th, 2012
11:28 am
I have been on our medical system since I got sick in 2004..
There is nothing wrong with our system except the costs.
This bill addresses this fact.
Repeal it, costs shoot back up and only the wealthy can afford it.
cons are self defeatists again on this issue.
Aquagirl
March 28th, 2012
11:30 am
Would you like me to send you some literature on the fabulous real estate opportunities available in Love Canal?
Seeing as how we’re EXPORTING refinery products, maybe you should include the fabulous opportunities in dirigible mooring fields too.
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
11:31 am
oblama – “Maybe you are just a liberal who wants to save the world with everyone’s money but your own.”
No, I want to stop having to pay for people who get treated at the ER without being able to pay for it so that it can be tacked onto my bill later in the form of higher medical costs.
I’m sure you haven’t considered that. The fact that you want a refinery built in your backyard tells me that your not much of an analytical thinker.
willie lynch
March 28th, 2012
11:33 am
If the system was so great before the Affordable Care act was passed, why is it so f***ked up?
azazel
March 28th, 2012
11:33 am
er costs to your taxpayers will be more than lots of mega millions
Tommy Maddox
March 28th, 2012
11:33 am
Paul Ryan’s budget plan has a few good ideas. Some other folks in Congress have other notions about budgeting that clobbers the deficit in five rather than ten years.
protests R us
March 28th, 2012
11:34 am
Protests R us has all your hate speech needs covered. We have trademarked many phrases such as “Kill Zimmermann” and “Wanted, Dead or Alive” that are so popular this week. Before you plan that riot or march, remember, we put the hate in hate speech. Also available, some classic signs from the 70s…..”Off the Pig” and “Burn, Baby, Burn”.
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
March 28th, 2012
11:35 am
“I still find it amazing that we have an elected President organizing protests against the Supreme Court and fellow American citizens.”
Not intended to be factual.
oblama
March 28th, 2012
11:36 am
Love Canal had nothing to do with oil refineries. – which are heavily regulated. I love the way leftists label those that do no agree with them. I have a Doctor of Pharmacy degree earned through hard work and paid my own way through school- not quite as close to doom as you would like. I know more about this health care system than Oblama ever will. He’s a civil rights class action suit trial lawyer. Where’s his background in health care?
Bruno
March 28th, 2012
11:38 am
I’m sorry, were the Republicans not allowed to come with a workable solution? Hell, they had the option to do it way back when I was still a member of the party.
Butch (and Brosephus)–Your logic here seems to be that if the Repubs don’t have an alternative plan, then we should automatically embrace the Dem plan, which is a guaranteed loser. IMO, it wold be better to do nothing.
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
11:39 am
oblama – “He’s a civil rights class action suit trial lawyer. Where’s his background in health care?”
Where’s your link showing Obama as a “civil rights class action suit trial lawyer”? If you can’t even correctly identify the person that you are railing against, why would we lend any credibility to anything else you say?
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2012
11:39 am
“A better analogy would be the forcing of all people to buy auto insurance whether or not they have a car. That’s what Obamacare is”
Nope, not a good analogy. EVERYONE has health.
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
March 28th, 2012
11:39 am
oblama
March 28th, 2012
11:36 am
No President is an “expert” in every aspect of life. You do know thats why they have advisers and a cabinet right?
paulo 977
March 28th, 2012
11:40 am
gadem
March 28th, 2012
8:59 am
Republicans are a self hating bunch…
_______________________________
Absolutely , well put !
sircharles19
March 28th, 2012
11:41 am
Every comments matter….nothing short from the truth. Children ederly and all of us need some type of health care insurance. By not having it you stand a grave chance of not getting some medical care you would need. Having it make you and your family easier to go and get this help on any circumstances. Doctors charges for non-heath care goes out of the roof, with health care, there is only so much a doctor can charge and your insurance pick up the rest. What make sense?
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
11:41 am
Bruno – “Your logic here seems to be that if the Repubs don’t have an alternative plan, then we should automatically embrace the Dem plan, which is a guaranteed loser.”
No, only that if one side says that the other sides plan is a “loser”, then they should be prepared to come to the table with a plan that actually works and can explain in detail why it is better.
Bruno
March 28th, 2012
11:42 am
No, I want to stop having to pay for people who get treated at the ER without being able to pay for it so that it can be tacked onto my bill later in the form of higher medical costs.
Butch–”Free rider” costs run about 8% of the total, very little of which will be recovered through the mandate.
You’re a smart guy, or at least claim to be. Why don’t you apply some sense of proportionality here and focus on the other 92% for a minute. The problem we have in healthcare is overall costs, which will only go up under Obamacare.
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
March 28th, 2012
11:43 am
mrsstsimons hosp group has a ‘guest’ up there viewing the hearings.
She is emailing back to the mrs bosses that, by Kennedy’s line of
questioning, its gonna be 5-4 against the mandate.
In that much, she seems sure.
In typical Republican sneaky weasel fashion, they’re trying to kill it
without suffering the People’s wrath.
But in any case, she says she has never been around a farther removed
aloof, and ‘clueless to the avg American’s plight’ group in her life.
Looney Bin
March 28th, 2012
11:43 am
“I have been trying to sell my land but no one will even offer at 1/2 of it’s appraised value in 2008. That’s our Oblama economy at work.”
So you want more government intervention to increase the value of your land? How is that government’s job? Oh right – because it benefits you.
Brosephus™
March 28th, 2012
11:46 am
Paul Ryan’s budget plan has a few good ideas. Some other folks in Congress have other notions about budgeting that clobbers the deficit in five rather than ten years.
Considering it would be somewhere near 2040 before Ryan’s bill cobbers the budget deficit, it wouldn’t be the ideal deficit reduction plan if there are some that do it in 5-10 years.
———————
Bruno
That is not my logic at all. I didn’t like the idea of the ACA, and I didn’t like the idea of running on “Repeal and Replace” without actually having something to replace. If we do nothing, we go back to getting financially reamed by the insurance companies. It doesn’t affect me as much now as it affects others, but given my family medical history, it is only a matter of time before I get into the coverage fight with my insurance.
My idea is something similar to the Swiss model. If we focused more on prevention and awareness, I think we could cut out a lot of unnecessary treatment that causes prices to skyrocket. I’m still laughing at the fact that, while the GOP was dead set against the public option, their attack on the ACA has shown why such a thing would probably end up factoring into the solution anyway.
Aquagirl
March 28th, 2012
11:46 am
they should be prepared to come to the table with a plan that actually works and can explain in detail why it is better.
Republican excuse # 2,843: the dog ate our healthcare plan.
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
11:47 am
Bruno – “The problem we have in healthcare is overall costs, which will only go up under Obamacare.”
The costs will go up whether there is Obamacare or not. Rising healthcare costs did not start with the Obama administration and they will certainly not end with it.
barking frog
March 28th, 2012
11:47 am
Maybe the President will
order insurance companies
to comply with medicare
rates and requirements
for all ages like he did with
birth control.
oblama
March 28th, 2012
11:47 am
Fred – I can tell you listen to the lies on NBC, CNN, etc. By the way, I am neither Dem nor Repub so don’t label me. I rarely listen to the garbage on T.V. be it CNN, NBC or Fox. To much hate and negativism on both sides. I voted for Ross Perot and common sense solutions to reduce this massive debt built up over years and years of spending by BOTH parties. Time for a 3rd party – with common sense. You can’t spend your way out of debt. Start with TERM limits in Congress to match the term limits we have for the President. There is so much entrenched power in D.C. that wants to take care of themselves that they won’t do what has to be done to reduce the debt and save this country from destruction.
Fred ™
March 28th, 2012
11:48 am
Bruno
March 28th, 2012
11:38 am
Butch (and Brosephus)–Your logic here seems to be that if the Repubs don’t have an alternative plan, then we should automatically embrace the Dem plan, which is a guaranteed loser. IMO, it wold be better to do nothing.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Funny. I didn’t see it that way from either of them OR from me. But you have to admit that if one doesn’t have an alternative one is just mindlessly whining.
The Republicans have had plenty of time to come up with some workable solutions, but they have chosen not to.Their whole platform is “Badmouth Obama and squash any plans he has.” I’m sure that oncwe again Sean Hannidy will start calling his show, “The sink Obama Express,” just as he did last cycle.
I’ve never been for or against Obama care, I told you that. But I SERIOUSLY want to here something from the Republican side other than “Obama Sucks and Obama care sucks worse.”
Common Sense isn't very Common
March 28th, 2012
11:49 am
By 2008 anyone with any sense knew land/house prices were way out of line with reality.
Very few appraisals done between 1998 and 2008 were accurate.
Around 2008-2009 appraisals reflected at least some of the downturn (especially in the Atlanta area which was overbuilt)
Doggone/GA
March 28th, 2012
11:49 am
“Start with TERM limits in Congress to match the term limits we have for the President”
I, for one, would never agree with this. In fact, as I have saide before, if I had the power to do it I would remove the term limits on the Presidencey
stands for decibels
March 28th, 2012
11:50 am
We have trademarked many phrases such as “Kill Zimmermann”
well no. However:
http://tinyurl.com/d8brl5l
Rude Pundit, per usual, has the current, inevitable blame-the-victim narrative perfectly pegged.
(language alert, but I imagine you all know that.)
Rafe Hollister
March 28th, 2012
11:52 am
It will be a great day when the Supremes start forcing the Fed Gov to adhere to the Constitution. We can solve all these problems without empowering the Feds with unlimited control over our lives.
Here is an idea to handle the “preexisting condition problem”. Sell health insurance like Long Term Care Insurance, the younger you buy the cheaper it is. Make it a lifetime policy, so the insurance companies can bank some profit in your youth, before paying out in your declining years. Remove insurance from the employers and give the taxpayers all the benefits now given to the employers, i.e., a tax deduction. Remove all state requirements on health insurance and let buyer be ware. If you are male you do not need maternity coverage.
For those who refuse to insure themselves privately through choice or expense, start a government pool, and let them volunteer themselves for it, if they don’t get on board, deny them any coverage at the hospital and doctor unless they can self insure. The government pool should be bid out to the private carriers. If they can’t afford the gov pool offer some matching gov subsidy, but everyone should be invested in their own health and health care cost.
Does not cover all the problems, but smart people can come up with remedies that do not restrict our freedom and are constitutional.
Butch Cassidy
March 28th, 2012
11:53 am
oblama – “I rarely listen to the garbage on T.V. be it CNN, NBC or Fox.”
Maybe you should tune in once in a while, that way you wouldn’t make idiotic statements like calling Obama a “civil rights class action suit trial lawyer”.
Jefferson
March 28th, 2012
11:53 am
The country needs a health care tax, and provide health care to its citizens. If you want private too, well knock yourself out, but you still pay the tax. Do it and get over it.
MrLiberty
March 28th, 2012
11:53 am
Why is nobody but Ron Paul suggesting the concept of medical freedom? Why does the AMA along with state legislatures get to dictate who I can and cannot contract with to perform medical services? Why does the AMA get to decide who can run a medical school, how many students they are allowed to teach, graduate, etc. so as to keep supply short and prices high? Why does the state government get to decide what every insurance company MUST cover, and who can do business in each state thus undermining any coverage for alternative care and other low cost yet highly effective therapies? Why does the government get to decide what I am allowed to put in my body for my own health? Why does the government get to decide who can and who cannot deduct medical expenses, insurance costs, and even what is allowed to be deductible as a service, etc.? Why does the federal government use its actual and intended legal authority to regulate (make regular) the sale of insurance accross state lines and allow these sales so that greater competition will bring down prices? Why does the FDA ban the publishing of information that could make for far more informed medical consumers – specifically about the well-documented health benefits of nutrional supplements, herbs, homeopathic medicines, fruits, vegetables, etc.?
Why did the republicans not offer freedom as an alternative to this totalitarian medical plan of Obama’s? Why are both political parties more concerned about protecting the established players in the medical market rather than enhancing the choices, freedom, and liberty of healthcare consumers?
Why does every idiot in the media (that would be all of them) continue to treat insurance and health care as interchangable words?? Why does the media continue to treat health insurance as anything other than a pre-paid medical plan? Insurance is about paying to cover risks of the unknown, yet most medical plans are simply paying out money to cover basic maintenance in the hopes that we will get it all back by the end of the year? This is a massively destructive practise that raises the costs of everything.
How long will it take before americans wake up and realize that EVERYTHING govenrment touches it makes far worse – including medicine?
oblama
March 28th, 2012
11:55 am
Butch – After I have the refinery I will probably have enough money to move next door to Oblama’s mansion. Sure I thought about that already!