Surprise! Mandate’s fate may ride on Kennedy
Tom Goldstein, a veteran litigator before the U.S. Supreme Court and publisher of ScotusBlog, listened to the morning’s argument over the ObamaCare mandate and posted the following assessment:
“Towards the end of the argument the most important question was Justice Kennedy’s. After pressing the government with great questions Kennedy raised the possibility that the plaintiffs were right that the mandate was a unique effort to force people into commerce to subsidize health insurance but the insurance market may be unique enough to justify that unusual treatment. But he didn’t overtly embrace that. It will be close. Very close.”
I know firsthand that trying to discern a judge’s mindset based on the questions that he or she asks is tricky business at best. The judge may be asking tough questions of one side merely to hone his or her own later arguments in support of that side.
For example, consider the divergence between two witnesses to the discussion, first from Lyle Denniston, also of ScotusBlog:
If Justice Anthony M. Kennedy can locate a limiting principle in the federal government’s defense of the new individual health insurance mandate, or can think of one on his own, the mandate may well survive. If he does, he may take Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., along with him. But if he does not, the mandate is gone. That is where Tuesday’s argument wound up — with Kennedy, after first displaying a very deep skepticism, leaving the impression that he might yet be the mandate’s savior.
Meanwhile, Jeffrey Toobin of CNN concludes from the questioning that Kennedy is “a lost cause” for the Obama administration:
“This was a train wreck for the Obama administration. This law looks like it’s going to be struck down. I’m telling you, all of the predictions including mine that the justices would not have a problem with this law were wrong… if I had to bet today I would bet that this court is going to strike down the individual mandate.”
– Jay Bookman
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
397 comments Add your comment
JamVet
March 27th, 2012
3:19 pm
I think it depends on whether one is a butt man or a boat man…
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
3:19 pm
Steve – The statements made by Zimmerman support that conclusion. Haven’t seen any medical records as of yet. But that argument aside. Even if Trayvon did hit Zimmerman first, he would have been covered under the “stand your ground” law (most likely) because he was being followed, first in a truck and then on foot, by someone and being approached by someone who was (obviously) dangerous in a place he had a right to be.
William
March 27th, 2012
3:19 pm
“But then again, I thought OJ was guilty (even as an 8 year old I had an opinion about that), Casey Anthony was guilty and I think this guy is guilty.”
OJ is guilty even if he was found not so. I think there can be little doubt about that. It was an amazing trial and outcome.
JamVet
March 27th, 2012
3:20 pm
I’ll get behind the protesters when they get behind that inconvenient truth.
The hell you will.
Your glee is damn near palpable…
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 27th, 2012
3:21 pm
Brocephus,
I won’t paint all black people as one big, monolithic thinking alike group. You do have the occasionally Clarence Thomas or Thomas Sowell who dare to think differently than the other 90%. And what they seem to get for thinking differently is derision and scorn. Hell just look at the way they are treated on this blog- especially just today on Clarence thomas.
We all know it was Zimm’s gun that killed Trayvon. You’re not enlightening us on anything new. I’m not saying he is 100% innocent because we don’t know that yet. But the police were there. You and I were not. And those cops that were there did not believe there was anything to charge Zimm with after looking at the evidence at the scene. I think that seeing as how they were there they know a little more about it than you and I.
What I am saying is that so far according to the evidence that we have the man should not be charged. And he wasn’t charged initially. He may yet be charged but the pressure and media coverage could have an undue influence on this. And that’s a shame.
Now it is possible that once they listen to the tapes and determine the angle of shooting and all that they may be able to determine that Trayvon was standing up, backing away, and was shot anyway. If that is determinable then obviously Zimm should be charged.
But now watching from the vigils, the t-shirts, the heated rhetoric at the rallies it seems to be the consensus of those close minded folks that this was murder. They have no interest in the facts and have made up their minds already.
They BOTH suck
March 27th, 2012
3:22 pm
“I’ll get behind the protesters when they get behind that inconvenient truth.”
So you already work in some capacity to prevent black on black crime, right? You just don’t have time nor see the need for this case….. Got it
Thanks
Thomas
March 27th, 2012
3:22 pm
Still no takers on the Reagan question? Remember, corporations are people
Don’t know why I am responding to this earlier idiotic question but corporations are not people. Kind of like an analogy that says all cars manufactured by GM require safety belts- gotcha…..
Brosephus™
March 27th, 2012
3:22 pm
(ir)Rational
Guilt isn’t what you believe, it’s what can be proven. I’ve heard so much speculation in this case, that I’m thinking the investigators probably have sequestered themselves somewhere to block out all the outside noise. Based on what I’ve read, I am not impressed by the investigation skills of the Sanford PD. There’s much that has not been released, and probably will not be released until the case is presented to a Grand Jury.
I’ve looked over the initial police report and the area where the incident took place. If I were an investigator, Zimmerman and I would know each other quite well as we would have been joined at the hip due to all the questions I have about that night. Many of his statements that have been made public do not mesh well with the report and location from my point of view.
Normal, Plain and Simple
March 27th, 2012
3:24 pm
Three things bother me about the Trayvon Martin case…
1. Could it be that Zimmerman, who I believe is half White and half Hispanic, reacted to stereotypes?
2. Zimmerman and Martin are both being character assassinated by leaks to the press. Why hasn’t anyone noticed that Zimmerman is still alive to defend himself, while Martin isn’t?
3. And WTF is it about this law that makes everyone want to defend it? It’s stupid. You want to stand your ground, then do it in the ring or re-establish the dueling laws and meet on the green at dawn. This is a no brainer and the advocates of this law have no brains.
Brosephus™
March 27th, 2012
3:24 pm
Which is what Zimmerman claimed and the medical facts supported that.
What medical facts? Has the EMT service released medical records? He didn’t go to a hospital for treatment, according to the police report. All you have is what’s been said, and heresay is NOT fact.
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
3:24 pm
Steve – Say you, or your child are walking through your neighborhood at night, and are approached by a belligerent man, for no reason, who has been following you since you entered the neighborhood. He then demands to know what you’re doing in his neighborhood, cause you don’t belong there. You have no where to run, and feel like he is a threat to you. What would you do, and what would you suggest your children do? Fight? Or possibly be kidnapped, beaten, raped (you have no idea what this guy wants) or killed simply for trying to go home? Yeah, in certain cases, kicking someone’s butt to save your life is worth it and justified. Oddly enough, even the law supports this idea.
Fred ™ Being Black since 8:57 this morning
March 27th, 2012
3:25 pm
DDR: I am highly angry about this situation. Jamvet appears to be as well.You are PISSED TO THE MAX.
I say that because it helps underscore the differences we as Americans still have when it comes to race, even among those of us of different races, creeds or religions, who agree on things. I don’t see feminazi as a big thing. Jamvet would cut my nuts off for it. I see this Trayvon thing as a gross miscarriage of justice, yet you take it personally. In both cases (you and Jamvet) you are drawing on past experiences.
I’m not expressing myself how I want to so I’ll stop. Suffice it to say that there isn’t enough empathy in the world. No matter how hard we as individuals try…….
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 27th, 2012
3:27 pm
“Rambo Zimmerman.”
Leave it to JamVet to come through with an injection of timely humor into an otherwise serious conversation.
Brosephus™
March 27th, 2012
3:28 pm
But now watching from the vigils, the t-shirts, the heated rhetoric at the rallies it seems to be the consensus of those close minded folks that this was murder.
Well, it is murder or homicide. The legal question is whether or not it was justified. They are not close minded for thinking as they do contrary to what you think of them.
Based on your posts, the only thing you haven’t done has been to pat Zimmerman on the back. You’re quick to use heresay as a means to prove Zimmerman was in the right, but no factual evidence has been produced yet to substantiate that. There has been very little factual evidence released at all. Most things being paraded as facts are nothing but heresay and wouldn’t stand up any more than a limp spaghetti noodle in court.
They BOTH suck
March 27th, 2012
3:28 pm
“You do have the occasionally Clarence Thomas or Thomas Sowell who dare to think differently than the other 90%.”
The other 90% all think alike? I assume you use the 90 / 10 based on average voting percentages, but I could be wrong. Well like all races, all blacks do not vote. One can’t reasonably know what that percentage thinks politically or otherwise. For that matter, all black conservatives do not think the same and black liberals, moderates, etc
They are as diverse in their thinking as whites, hispanics, etc.
Voting percentages are one variable when looking at any demographic in terms of what they “dare to think”..
Come on TD
We disagree politically on a lot of things, but you are much smarter man than what you are posting on this issue
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
3:29 pm
William – Yeah, Johnnie Cochran, Robert Shapiro and Robert Kardashian (and whoever else was involved in the defense) certainly earned every penny they were paid.
Bro – Yeah, I’m guessing the police there don’t have much experience with this type of investigation and were trying to get away with not doing much/any actual police work. Kinda like where I grew up, the police there never saw a death that they couldn’t rule as “natural causes” or “suicide.” Well, there were two, but one was a hunting accident, and the other was in the parking lot of a grocery store and there were WAY too many witnesses (plus the guy turned himself in at the Police Department) to rule otherwise.
William
March 27th, 2012
3:29 pm
“It saddens me that folks would stand with Zimmerman just because President Obama spoke in favor of Trayvon and the right wing puppet masters then decided to make it an issue against Obama. Just plain pitiful.”
I am not taking a “stand with Zimmerman” but nonetheless believe Obama did what he did largely for political reasons, just as he did with the arrest of that Harvard professor. If you can’t see that, i don’t know what to say. It is not presidential to opine on such events, especially when the local authorities have not finished handling it.
“Yeah — what’s even MORE pitiful is how some on this blog will LIE just to make themselves look smarter than they actually are. It’s hurtful because the bigger picture is that a kid was shot and a MURDERER is hiding behind a stupid, poorly written law.”
Wow…why don’t you just go join the Black Panthers with that rush to judgement? If it turns out to be otherwise, I would expect an apology on this blog for that.
Jefferson
March 27th, 2012
3:29 pm
What would Nancy Grace say ?
Aquagirl
March 27th, 2012
3:31 pm
He may yet be charged but the pressure and media coverage could have an undue influence on this. And that’s a shame.
It’s shameful we have laws protecting creepy stalker types who initiate confrontations and then shoot people to death. I’m not sure why you think that’s a good thing, unless you drive a van with no windows and “free candy” on the side.
Fred ™ Being Black since 8:57 this morning
March 27th, 2012
3:32 pm
William
March 27th, 2012
3:16 pm
“Really? I have a buttload of black friends for teens to folks over 70. ”
Do you mean “boatload”?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No I mean buttload. Boatload is Neal Boortz’s term because he can’t (or won’t) use buttload on the radio. He also uses pantload instead of buttload.
Keep up.
They BOTH suck
March 27th, 2012
3:34 pm
William
I would have to agree that politics to an extent has played a part in terms of the WH…
With that said, what WH in recent history didn’t choose certain issues and events to exploit for political gain?
Common Sense isn't very Common
March 27th, 2012
3:34 pm
I think the last time I was afraid of someone 140lbs it was my wife.
Fred ™ Being Black since 8:57 this morning
March 27th, 2012
3:34 pm
Steve – USA (I support “None Of The Above”)
March 27th, 2012
3:18 pm
“but I suspect the facts are going to reveal that Zimmerman has been trying to cover his butt after he shot a kid for kicking his butt.”
You say that like it OK to kick the crap out of someone.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You stalk follow and harrass ME and I’ll kick your ass and say it’s ok. I don;t have to put up with that crap because I’m black and wearing a hoodie. Oh wait, I’m white with no hoodie……….. doesn’t matter. You stalk me and get in my face raising my fight or flight level to defcojn5 and ONE of us is getting an ass whoopin’
William
March 27th, 2012
3:35 pm
“Even if Trayvon did hit Zimmerman first, he would have been covered under the “stand your ground” law (most likely)…”
I don’t know, but as I suggested earlier, it is possible (I suppose) that Zimmerman uttered “fighting words” before turning to walk away. Such words are NOT protected free speech. Let’s say hypothetically that Zimmerman said to Trayvon something like this: “I’m tired of you n*****s coming around here and stealing from us. You are all worthless trash!”. Would that make a difference?
William
March 27th, 2012
3:37 pm
“With that said, what WH in recent history didn’t choose certain issues and events to exploit for political gain?”
None that I can think of TBS, which saddens me. If we could only get the politics out of politics!
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
March 27th, 2012
3:37 pm
“(ir)Rational”,
Your position is it is alright to beat someone up who has never laid a hand on you?
For the record as a Real Estate Investor I have had several run-ins with Neighborhood watches because I was checking out the neighborhood. I just told them it is a public road and to go ahead and call the police if they want.
I am delighted to learn from you that anyone who gives me any lip can get a beat down. Some guy gave me the finger the other day on the road because I wouldn’t drive 80 on a 45 mph road. Had I known my rights I would have taken that dude out. Thanks for the info!
Brosephus™
March 27th, 2012
3:37 pm
Can anybody point out what was so political about Obama’s comments? Maybe I’m missing his rhetoric in this case. I can usually distill the political mumbo jumbo from statements, but I’m at a loss on this one.
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
March 27th, 2012
3:39 pm
Fred,
Hope you don’t get shot during that ass whoopin’.
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 27th, 2012
3:39 pm
William,
Its a pure hypothetical that we can’t go with. No one knows exactly what was said between the 2 that made Trayvon allegedly attack Zimm after he went back to his vehicle.
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
3:39 pm
Jefferson – You mean Nancy Grace hasn’t weighed in on this yet? That could be the most amazing part of the whole case.
William – You’re still assuming that he is telling the truth about him walking back towards his truck (which he never should have left in the first place). All we have is his word saying that he did. I’m going to guess that his lawyer has been very careful about coaching him to make sure he says the “right” thing to the press to see if he can get away with what he’s done. Even so, does a butt kicking deserve a shooting? And, what some people seem to not realize is that even though he is claiming to have been covered under the “stand your ground law,” that law doesn’t justify him killing the kid with absolutely no repercussions, it just takes it from Murder 1 to Murder 2 or manslaughter or something.
They BOTH suck
March 27th, 2012
3:40 pm
William @ 3:37
Isn’t that the truth
William
March 27th, 2012
3:41 pm
“No I mean buttload. Boatload is Neal Boortz’s term because he can’t (or won’t) use buttload on the radio. He also uses pantload instead of buttload. Keep up.”
Okay. I am not a Boortz fanboy by any means. I hardly ever listen to him – he is pompous and overbearing, even if he does say some interesting and insightful things from time to time. Talking heads like him hurt the cause of conservatism in the long run. If listening to him is keeping up, I think I will lag behind.
Fred ™ Being Black since 8:57 this morning
March 27th, 2012
3:42 pm
Come on TD
We disagree politically on a lot of things, but you are much smarter man than what you are posting on this issue
I agree. I dunno why Doomy is quasi supporting this, but his heart just doesn’t seem to be in it. Yet on other things he has definitely made a break with the party line.This one though confuses me……
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
3:42 pm
Steve – Are you so delusional as to read what I said that way? Or are you purposefully trying to take it out of context? What I said, is if you’re approached by someone, who is following you, and who could reasonably be seen as a threat to your safety. As it stands, in Georgia, you do have a duty to try and escape before you attack them though. If you can’t escape, and a reasonable person would fear for their life in the situation you’re in, yeah, you have the right to stand your ground and kick their butt. But hey, you go right ahead and do what you said, and when you’re tried and arrested, you can try saying “but (ir)Rational said it was okay” but it won’t work.
They BOTH suck
March 27th, 2012
3:43 pm
Bro
We probably disagree but what was Obama talking about when he said “If I had a son he would look like Trayvon”? or something on those lines
Was he attempting to personalize the issue?
Of course I’m not in his mind nor have access to ask him, but I can’t seem to figure that one out
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
3:44 pm
Fred – Doesn’t take much to get you riled up does it? Defcon 5 is the “all’s clear,” I believe you meant “Defcon 1″.
William
March 27th, 2012
3:44 pm
“Even so, does a butt kicking deserve a shooting? And, what some people seem to not realize is that even though he is claiming to have been covered under the “stand your ground law,” that law doesn’t justify him killing the kid with absolutely no repercussions, it just takes it from Murder 1 to Murder 2 or manslaughter or something.”
I think you misunderstood me or I didn’t communicate clearly enough. I was suggesting that perhaps the utterance of “fighting words” (if this occured) may legally justify a fight, which would weaken a “stand your ground” defense.
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 27th, 2012
3:45 pm
Brosephus™
March 27th, 2012
3:37 pm
Can anybody point out what was so political about Obama’s comments?
The very fact that Obama brought it up and then went into some stuff about if he had a son this is what his son would have looked like. You can’t sit there with a straight face and say this didn’t elicit some emotion regarding Jayvon’s death. Or that this wasn’t detrimental to Zimm’s question of guilt or innocence. It would have been wiser for him to either have just sat this one out or to have simply said let the process take its course.
Common Sense isn't very Common
March 27th, 2012
3:46 pm
(ir)R – I agree with you.
A 140 lb teenager is walking down the street being followed by a truck.
A 240 lb man gets out of the truck and approaches him in a possibly confrontation manner.
Who would be the aggressor in that situation if the races were reversed?
William
March 27th, 2012
3:47 pm
“Its a pure hypothetical that we can’t go with. No one knows exactly what was said between the 2 that made Trayvon allegedly attack Zimm after he went back to his vehicle.”
It is a real possibility and I am confident the FBI will be looking into it in their investigation. I am not saying it happened; I am merely saying it is a possibility.
Fred ™ Being Black since 8:57 this morning
March 27th, 2012
3:47 pm
Steve – USA (I support “None Of The Above”)
March 27th, 2012
3:39 pm
Fred,
Hope you don’t get shot during that ass whoopin’.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Unless you gun is in your hand while you are stalking me I’ll take my chances on you shooting me with two broken arms and your teeth shoved down your throat.
you are sounding like a real bullying ass hole. I’m neither scared nor impressed. At nearly 50, I’m still standing…….
Fred ™ Being Black since 8:57 this morning
March 27th, 2012
3:49 pm
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
3:44 pm
Fred – Doesn’t take much to get you riled up does it? Defcon 5 is the “all’s clear,” I believe you meant “Defcon 1″.
LOL. I reckon so. It actually takes a LOT to get me riled up. A lot of beer that is. No beer, no rile……..
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
March 27th, 2012
3:51 pm
but I suspect the facts are going to reveal that Zimmerman has been trying to cover his butt after he shot a kid for kicking his butt.
Word.
Steve: You say that like it OK to kick the crap out of someone.
– Let’s say you were walking around a predominantly black neighborhood, (don’t know your race — you can substitute “black” for any other race you’d like); and all of a sudden a strange “black” man started following you. Most people, not you though, would be apprehensive. In this age of serial killers and spree killers, most people would feel threatened. Oh, but not you; you would feel perfectly safe if someone who outweighed you, was following you in a car, got out of his car and started following you on foot, (for no reason), suddenly accosted you.
You steve would do nothing. because you would feel no fear or no threat. You are the perfect human.
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
March 27th, 2012
3:51 pm
Fred,
You are talking about yourself. You are the one seems to think fighting is a cool thing. Your threats of a “two broken arms and your teeth shoved down your throat” seem to prove that. You Internet tough guys really don’t impress me. Go pick up your Viagra, I bet it’s ready macho man. LOL
Fred ™ Being Black since 8:57 this morning
March 27th, 2012
3:51 pm
(ir)Rational: Gotta beer lol?
But seriously, how can anyone be defending this jerk?
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
3:54 pm
William – Zimmerman has no “stand your ground” defense per the guy that wrote the law. But that is just what the “experts” say. So, no, it doesn’t change anything with me.
Common Sense – Not sure why race should matter, but I do understand what you’re saying.
Fred – Yeah, I only get pissed at injustices and if someone messes with the Mrs. Having said that, she is almost as good of a shot as me, and can take care of herself, but she shouldn’t have to. She is a lady.
As far as adding beer, I’m a very happy drunk, so that doesn’t change things, except if I get drunk enough, it would take a gun to stop me. I stop feeling pain after a while (as evidenced by the headfirst trip through a wall I took while in college that I neither felt then or the next morning).
William
March 27th, 2012
3:55 pm
“Can anybody point out what was so political about Obama’s comments? Maybe I’m missing his rhetoric in this case. I can usually distill the political mumbo jumbo from statements, but I’m at a loss on this one.”
The action was political, since by the time he made his statement this had already become a racial issue in the minds of many (even Jay). So why jump into fray then? He isn’t stupid. And if he representatives said it would be inappropriate for him to comment on the case. If he hadn’t interjected himself previously into the arrest of the Harvard professor (who was black), I might be willing to give him more benefit of the doubt.
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
March 27th, 2012
3:55 pm
Debbie – “You steve would do nothing. because you would feel no fear or no threat. You are the perfect human.”
I never said that anywhere. What I said is that I wouldn’t strike someone who did not assault me or threaten me with a weapon. I guess you people are all ready to throw down. I did live in downtown Philadelphia by the way and sometimes that person just happens to be going near where you are going. I guess I should have stopped and attacked them following the logic here.
Brosephus™
March 27th, 2012
3:55 pm
They BOTH
Ok, I’ll buy that…
———————-
Doom
Are you faulting the president for being human? If I remember correctly, a reporter asked him about the incident. It’s been revealed that he’s been briefed pretty regular on what was going on, so why wouldn’t he have a human reaction to that incident? After all, he is the president to ALL Americans. How would that endear him to parents around the country if he just flipped off the question in the manner you suggested? How would you feel if that were your child in the body bag and the president responded just as you said he should? Obama, contrary to popular opinion, IS human. He is also a parent. No parent wants to experience the pain of burying their child, nor do they want to think about that.
If that’s what you consider being political, then ok, as I told They BOTH, I’ll buy it. I don’t agree with it, but the again, we don’t think alike 100% of the time.
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 27th, 2012
3:55 pm
“You’re still assuming that he is telling the truth about him walking back towards his truck”
And you’re suggesting that he’s lying.
“(which he never should have left in the first place)”. Poor judgment on Zimm’s part but also irrelevant if he was not the one who initiated a physical fight.
“All we have is his word saying that he did.”
No. Not really. The cops were there and probably noted that the incident took place right near his truck. If he was lying and the fight took place 30 yards from the truck don’t you think they woulda noticed this rather large discrepancy?
“I’m going to guess that his lawyer has been very careful about coaching him to make sure he says the “right” thing to the press to see if he can get away with what he’s done.”
2 things. No. 1 any lawyer is going to coach his client. No. 2 your snide comment “to see if he can get away with what he’s done” indicates that you are incapable of looking at this with a reaonable, fair, and impartial outlook. Like many others you have already convicted him in your mind without knowing many facts. Your statement flat out proves it. Shame on you.
“Even so, does a butt kicking deserve a shooting?”
Easy to say when you’re not the one on bottom getting your head bashed into the concrete according to the eyewitness who saw trayvong pounding on him.You have any idea what kind of brain injury if not death can result from having the back of your head pounded into concrete? Apparently you don’t.
And, what some people seem to not realize is that even though he is claiming to have been covered under the “stand your ground law,” “that law doesn’t justify him killing the kid with absolutely no repercussions”,
You sure about that chief? You a criminal defense lawyer? The fact that many say he may not even be charged says you are wrong.
“it just takes it from Murder 1 to Murder 2 or manslaughter or something.”
Then how come he hasn’t already been charged with Murder 2 if what you are saying is an absolute truth. Pleas splain the specific law counselor. And your state of Florida bar credentials while you’re at it.
johnnyvn
March 27th, 2012
3:58 pm
So, if the govt created single payer like Medicare that would be acceptable and they could fund it via taxes and tax everyone. But, if private insurance companies provide the care and its funded by premiums, it’s then unconstitutional?
I suppose then the same thing is true for cell phones. The govt can’t make everyone buy a cellphone but they can issue everyone a cell phone and tax them to pay for it. These conservative justices are really brilliant. LOL
Brosephus™
March 27th, 2012
3:58 pm
Doesn’t take much to get you riled up does it? Defcon 5 is the “all’s clear,” I believe you meant “Defcon 1″
I was thinking the same thing myself. At Defcon 5, I’m gonna walk away laughing my ass off. At Defcon 1, you’ll probably suffer PSTD if you are a witness.
They BOTH suck
March 27th, 2012
3:58 pm
“I don’t agree with it, but the again, we don’t think alike 100% of the time.”
Unless you are black and it is a 90 / 10 split
ragnar danneskjold
March 27th, 2012
3:58 pm
Just when you thought the republican primaries had run their course, a new horse race arises. Rather than watch the blow by blow, I think I will wait for the book to come out.
Brosephus™
March 27th, 2012
4:00 pm
The cops were there and probably noted that the incident took place right near his truck.
Police report does not mention his truck at all. It is noted, however that the incident culminated between buildings.
Common Sense isn't very Common
March 27th, 2012
4:00 pm
(ir)R – sorry, I needed to clarify a bit.
How many here would be screaming murder if the races were reversed?
They BOTH suck
March 27th, 2012
4:01 pm
Bro
I couldn’t help it……… I had to go there. It seemed so fitting based on the previous back and forths and then your reply to Doom and myself
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 27th, 2012
4:04 pm
Brocephus,
I’m saying he shouldn’t have gotten involved and just stated for everyone to calm down and let the process play out. We all consider it a tragedy that the young man lost his life. It sucks. But lets not compound a tragedy and follow it up by impicating Zimm when he may in fact be innocent under Florida law.
How would you feel if that were your child in the body bag and the president responded just as you said he should?
Let me flip that around and ask how would you feel if you were Zimmerman’s father or mother and you saw the potus and many other people siding against your son without knowing if he was truly acting in self defense. Not saying the potus did because he didn’t but his comments certainly seemed to evoke sympathy for Trayvon and some people will take that as meaning that Zimm is automatically guilty.
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
4:05 pm
Thulsa – I’ve never claimed to be a defense attorney, or any type of attorney. However I did get that from a criminal law professor, so maybe you can take it up with him? I mean, I would consider him an expert, you go with what you want.
Yeah, I’m saying he is probably lying about at least a few of the details, possibly all of them. Do defendants always (or ever) tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth in court or before trial or anything else? I’m not saying it is wrong that his lawyer is coaching him, I’m just pointing out that he probably is coaching him to try and get public opinion on his side before the trial (assuming there is one). I have had some experience with my head and concrete meeting, but I didn’t get up and shoot the concrete for hurting me. So, maybe you don’t assume everything? Oh, and as it turns out, what I think doesn’t really matter as the likely hood of me being involved in this case is somewhere between “not going to happen” and “no way in hell is that going to happen.” But yeah, if the evidence comes out that says he was justified, I’d be willing to accept it. But at the same time, I’ll point out, OJ was found “not guilty” do you think he is innocent?
Brosephus™
March 27th, 2012
4:05 pm
They BOTH
That one got me light headed from laughing. I probably should not have laughed so hard.
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
4:08 pm
Thulsa – Sorry if you’re trying to read my response. Not even close to the most organized train of thoughts I’ve ever put down on here.
Bro @ 3:58 – That got me laughin.
Common – Yeah, you have got a point there.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
March 27th, 2012
4:08 pm
Bro: Guilt isn’t what you believe, it’s what can be proven.
Bro., you must’ve studied law too! That’s EXACTLY right. Kudos.
Normal: I have the same questions. And question #2 : Why hasn’t anyone noticed that Zimmerman is still alive to defend himself, while Martin isn’t?
Is a doozy.
Fred: DDR: I am highly angry about this situation. Jamvet appears to be as well.You are PISSED TO THE MAX. I say that because it helps underscore the differences we as Americans still have when it comes to race, even among those of us of different races, creeds or religions, who agree on things. I don’t see feminazi as a big thing. Jamvet would cut my nuts off for it. I see this Trayvon thing as a gross miscarriage of justice, yet you take it personally. In both cases (you and Jamvet) you are drawing on past experiences.
You’re right on all counts. (a) I am PISSED Trayvon could’ve been my nephew or one of my stepsons. (b) I AM drawing upon experience(s) that I have had before. I lived a few years in Japan (father ex-military); and the stories I could tell you about being a person of color in Japan, (at that time), ain’t pretty. I was followed and harassed, and was physically accosted and then when I kicked the guy in the balls, I was “detained” by the local police, until the MPs and my dad came to pick me up.
This whole scenario was senseless and someone should look at that law, change it quickly, before someone elses’s child gets hurt. And the next time, it won’t be some low profile kid; but a high profile person. And it’s sad that that’s what it’ll take to change a stupid law.
William: am not taking a “stand with Zimmerman” but nonetheless believe Obama did what he did largely for political reasons, just as he did with the arrest of that Harvard professor. If you can’t see that, i don’t know what to say. It is not presidential to opine on such events, especially when the local authorities have not finished handling it.
How about he did because he’s a BLACK MAN IN AMERICA?: Duh!
Wow…why don’t you just go join the Black Panthers with that rush to judgement? If it turns out to be otherwise, I would expect an apology on this blog for that.
As the male JackRabbit said to the female JackRabbit – “F###ck You!
OK – I’m out — too angry to be on here right about now.
Brosephus™
March 27th, 2012
4:09 pm
Doom
From what I heard of Obama’s statement, I didn’t get the perception that he was taking sides at all. Granted, I didn’t hear the entire statement, but I didn’t get that impression. I’m gonna gather that Zimmerman’s family didn’t get that impression either based on the lack of a statement from them directed at Obama’s comments, unless I’ve missed one being released.
People are gonna believe what they choose to believe regardless of what you, Obama, or even I say. To try to blame someone’s opinion on Obama’s statement appears to be a weak attempt to blame Obama for something that he has no control over. At least, that’s my opinion of pinning someone’s beliefs on Obama’s statement.
Jay
March 27th, 2012
4:09 pm
Fred, Steve, cease the personal attacks.
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
March 27th, 2012
4:10 pm
Fred,
I don’t need moderation in schooling you. Why don’t you just admit I didn’t say “I” was the one shooting you.
Fred ™ Being Black since 8:57 this morning
March 27th, 2012
4:10 pm
Steve – USA (I support “None Of The Above”)
March 27th, 2012
4:09 pm
I have never reported anyone Fred. To much paperwork!
Once again, I said the person you are fighting might shoot you. Not me.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yet YOU were the one in the example silly. You stalk follow and harrass ME and I’ll kick your ass and say it’s ok.
So yes you were talking about YOU shooting Me Stevie.
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
March 27th, 2012
4:11 pm
OK Jay – No more from me.
Brosephus™
March 27th, 2012
4:12 pm
(ir)Rational
My mind is set to the fact that I’ll go home at the end of the day. Self-preservation is a trait that all humans share.
Catch y’all a bit later in the evenin’
Fred ™ Being Black since 8:57 this morning
March 27th, 2012
4:12 pm
Steve – USA (I support “None Of The Above”)
March 27th, 2012
4:06 pm
Fred (Stupid since Birth)
You mean like that one Jay?
They BOTH suck
March 27th, 2012
4:12 pm
“That one got me light headed from laughing. I probably should not have laughed so hard.”
At least you know what your split is…….
I’m White and Hispanic (Panamanian)……… I have no idea what my percentages are supposed to be………
Don't Forget
March 27th, 2012
4:18 pm
Can anybody give an idea of what Zimmerman’s motive was in approaching Martin? What did he hope to accomplish?
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 27th, 2012
4:19 pm
Defcon 1, Asswhupping, just when we needed a little more light humor on a serious subject. Damn that got me rolling.
“Yeah, I’m saying he is probably lying about at least a few of the details, possibly all of them.”
Irrational,
And you are just assuming he was lying right off that bat why? That’s a pretty blanket accusation about someone you’ve never met. I will say this. Apparently the cops got their pretty quick and he didn’t have much time to come up with a BS story. I would be inclined to believe him for the simple fact that if the cops got there pretty quick there really wasn’t much time for him to ponder and come up with a bs story. And in case you didn’t notice his story was confirmed to a degree by an eyewitness who saw Trayvon on top of him pummeling him.
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 27th, 2012
4:21 pm
Don’t forget,
He hadn’t seen the kid before in the neighborhood and there had been a series of recent burglaries in the neighborhood. Hence he was suspicious of who the kid was.
Don't Forget
March 27th, 2012
4:23 pm
Fred, point of order. The terms buttload, pantload, shiftload (sic) would most appropriately be used to describe the nature of the material in question. But boatload or shipload would best be used to indicate a large quantity.
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
4:25 pm
Thulsa – Wanna continue this here or go to the new sheets? I’m not saying he had time to concoct a BS story, but how much BS does it take to say “he attacked me, I was defending myself” when the police show up? Ask any kid that has ever been in any fight at school. That is the FIRST thing out of their mouth “(s)he started it.” I’m not the law, I’m not required to assume he is innocent until proven guilty. The only place I’m hearing about this witness is here (but that isn’t to say they don’t exist, I’m just saying I’ve not seen anything about it on the news). Once again though, I’m not required to assume he is innocent. I want him to prove his innocence because what he did, no matter how you swing it, was wrong.
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
4:26 pm
Don’t Forget – Ummm…not for everyone. Have you seen Newt’s pants or butt?
Don't Forget
March 27th, 2012
4:29 pm
But Thulsa, what did he think would happen when he approched him? If I were Zimmerman and I thought he was “up to no good”, I might try to keep him in sight so I could alert the cops but I wouldn’t want him to know I was keeping an eye on him so that he wouldn’t take off and get away.
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
March 27th, 2012
4:30 pm
“Can anybody give an idea of what Zimmerman’s motive was in approaching Martin? What did he hope to accomplish?”
The same thing any fake police/security wanna be does… to ask questions about something that doesnt involve him. At the end of the day, a kid is dead who had NO weapon and when he left the house, and store all he had was a what he purchased at the store. Zimmerman is the aggressor for following him and getting out of his car to A) interrogate him B)follow him on foot C)whatever reason. Him getting out of his car, proves he did so with “intent”. What the reason was?? IDK, but nevertheless he was the aggressor.
And DDR put it best when she said once the confrontation occurred, Martin handed his azz to him and pulled his weapon and shot him.
Bottom line…..hes the aggressor of the situation.
Don't Forget
March 27th, 2012
4:30 pm
ir – I try not to think about it.
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 27th, 2012
4:31 pm
Don’t forget,
Zimm may have used poor judgement but it doesn’t justify Trayvon attacking him. End of story.
Irational,
His story is consistent with other testimony. Nuff said.
Don't Forget
March 27th, 2012
4:33 pm
Joe, I agree but determination of motive is usually a part of determining the believability of any particular scenario.
William
March 27th, 2012
4:34 pm
“How about he did because he’s a BLACK MAN IN AMERICA?: Duh!”
That response speaks volumes. So Obama is a “victim” like all the other black Americans (though he went to Harvard and is now president). You thereby suggest his motive was racial (which I have said all along). And actually, DDR, he is mulatto.
“As the male JackRabbit said to the female JackRabbit – “F###ck You!”
Nice. What does such anger reveal?
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
March 27th, 2012
4:35 pm
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 27th, 2012
4:31 pm
You sound ridiculous.
Don't Forget
March 27th, 2012
4:36 pm
Thulsa, many have cited the Duke Lacrosse case as potential analogy. Fair enough but the Susan Smith case may be just as appropriate an analogy. You are taking Zimmerman’s word as gospel and I simply don’t get that. The start of the physical altercation was not witnessed by anyone to my knowledge.
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
4:38 pm
Thulsa – What other testimony? Has this gone to some trial that only you know about? There is no “testimony” without a trial.
Don’t Forget – Guess I shouldn’t bring up Rush then should I?
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
March 27th, 2012
4:40 pm
Don’t Forget
March 27th, 2012
4:33 pm
Zimemrman says he was attacked on the way back to his car right. Im curious, how far had he “walked” off from his car to be “attacked”. If he got out, walked in the direction of Martin and then turned around and walked back, it must have been a good distance in which Zimmerman had walked toward Martin or walked away form his vehicle. I wonder in relation to distance where his vehicle was parked Vs where the shooting took place…
too little time
March 27th, 2012
5:27 pm
I have read through several hundred replies, and its clear that the libs are idiots.
The problem ALWAYS boils down to the fact that a subset of the population is paying the healthcare for all. Right now, the insured are paying for the uninsured. Under Obamacare, the people who pay federal income taxes will be paying for the people that 1. Don’t have insurance through work and who 2. don’t pay federal taxes.
As always, the 51% of people who pay federal income taxes will be paying for uninsured of the 49% who don’t pay federal income taxes.
Insurance is no guarantee that you will be able to pay. My family pays about $4500 a year out of pocket ON TOP of $14000 in premiums. It strikes me that if I had saved up all the premiums I have paid for the last 30 years, that I would have about $300k ready for most any out of pocket emergencies, and that is AFTER paying for catastrophic coverage. There are other ways than insurance controlled by the government to solve this problem.
Simply put, the Democrats have decided that THIS is the way so that they can push the burden to the 51%, so that that can buy the votes of their constituents. This WILL fail. The GAO has already admitted that this Obamacare, minus the accounting gimmicks, is going to cost about twice as much as expected (and that is WITHOUT the long term care provision!). Our country simply cannot sustain that. The only way that Obamacare will work is to 1) Deny coverage to the diabetic lard asses who used about 70% of the healthcare in this country and 2) To stop the exorbitant spending that occurs at end-of-life. These two situations eat up the vast amount of healthcare dollars. Without directly addressing these two situations, no amount of cost savings can be realized. We are simply rearranging the deck chairs (the payers) on the Titanic.
I remember
March 27th, 2012
7:29 pm
The mandate’s fate surely won’t depend on the liberal toadies who don’t seem to be interested in the case at all, only in the liberal side. The four liberal justices are practially aruging the case for the government.
Tommy Maddox
March 27th, 2012
7:39 pm
Jeffrey Toobin’s commentary on CNN today was pretty funny:
“This law looks like it’s going to be struck down. I’m telling you, all of the predictions, including mine, that the justices would not have a problem with this law were wrong,”
And he’s their top legal analyst? Maybe he should try weather forecasting instead.
timbo
March 27th, 2012
8:25 pm
Obama Care will be over ruled by the SCOTUS. The argument by the administration appears to be a train wreck. Back to the drawing board.
William
March 27th, 2012
9:04 pm
“We are simply rearranging the deck chairs (the payers) on the Titanic.”
LOL. Soon it will be the 100th anniversary of its sinking. I hope that is just coincidence.
William
March 27th, 2012
9:06 pm
Wow:
Supreme irony? Top court poised to throw out Obamacare in echo of case Obama made against Hillary Clinton – http://harndenblog.dailymail.co.uk/2012/03/supreme-irony-obamacare.html
William
March 27th, 2012
9:08 pm
From linked article:
“Obama felt so strongly about the issue that he even cut an ad attacking Clinton for her support of the individual mandate. “Hillary Clinton’s attacking, but what’s she not telling you about her health care plan?” the April 2008 ad asked. “It forces everyone to buy insurance, even if you can’t afford it, and you pay a penalty if you don’t.”
Once in office, Obama changed his mind, telling CBS in July 2009: “During the campaign I was opposed to this idea because my general attitude was the reason people don’t have health insurance is not because they don’t want it, it’s because they can’t afford it. And if you make it affordable, then they’ll come. I am now in favour of some sort of individual mandate as long as there’s a hardship exemption.” This volte face merited a “full flop” rating from Politifact.”
What say you, liberals?
David Granger
March 27th, 2012
10:30 pm
Have to admit, Verrilli was rather bumbling today.
They should just let Elena Kagan argue for the damn bill. She’s the one who helped write it, and plotted legal arguments and strategies for it.
(Unless, of course, you believe that…while serving as U.S. Solicitor General…she cashed her checks without doing any of the work that the taxpayers were paying her to do.)
JKL2
March 28th, 2012
12:13 am
mm- In 1986, Reagan signed a bill into law that forces hospitals (even against their will) to treat anyone that walks into the emergency room, even if they can’t pay. I can’t wait to watch you twist yourselves into knots defending that one
So what you’re saying is obamacare was a complete waste of time since current laws already cover everyone. I agree.
JKL2
March 28th, 2012
12:15 am
Granger- They should just let Elena Kagan argue for the damn bill. She’s the one who helped write it, and plotted legal arguments and strategies for it
If she had any respect, she would recuse herself, but you know that’s never going to happen. Hopefully she be a true Democrat and vote against her own bill.
me
March 28th, 2012
6:43 am
Look at it this way…..If the law is thrown out, only the Rich will be able to afford Healthcare (The Kind Of Healthcare That Cheney Has) ….Poor peeps will still be without adequate healthcare….especially the POOR (which is most of us). Try to rationalize it any way you want to, but we poor suckers are being manipulated (by the Insurance companies and their buddies who own the media) to Cut Our Own Throats. IDIOTS!