Surprise! Mandate’s fate may ride on Kennedy
Tom Goldstein, a veteran litigator before the U.S. Supreme Court and publisher of ScotusBlog, listened to the morning’s argument over the ObamaCare mandate and posted the following assessment:
“Towards the end of the argument the most important question was Justice Kennedy’s. After pressing the government with great questions Kennedy raised the possibility that the plaintiffs were right that the mandate was a unique effort to force people into commerce to subsidize health insurance but the insurance market may be unique enough to justify that unusual treatment. But he didn’t overtly embrace that. It will be close. Very close.”
I know firsthand that trying to discern a judge’s mindset based on the questions that he or she asks is tricky business at best. The judge may be asking tough questions of one side merely to hone his or her own later arguments in support of that side.
For example, consider the divergence between two witnesses to the discussion, first from Lyle Denniston, also of ScotusBlog:
If Justice Anthony M. Kennedy can locate a limiting principle in the federal government’s defense of the new individual health insurance mandate, or can think of one on his own, the mandate may well survive. If he does, he may take Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., along with him. But if he does not, the mandate is gone. That is where Tuesday’s argument wound up — with Kennedy, after first displaying a very deep skepticism, leaving the impression that he might yet be the mandate’s savior.
Meanwhile, Jeffrey Toobin of CNN concludes from the questioning that Kennedy is “a lost cause” for the Obama administration:
“This was a train wreck for the Obama administration. This law looks like it’s going to be struck down. I’m telling you, all of the predictions including mine that the justices would not have a problem with this law were wrong… if I had to bet today I would bet that this court is going to strike down the individual mandate.”
– Jay Bookman
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397 comments Add your comment
Fred ™ Being Black since 8:57 this morning
March 27th, 2012
2:26 pm
MiltonMan
March 27th, 2012
2:22 pm
Jam, earlier pal we saw this cons vs. Trayvon message repeated over and over again. Now that it has been exposed that Zimmer was a registered Democrat, the tone has changed quite a bit.
++++++++++++++++++++++
Nothing has changed unless it’s you weirdo Republicans now backing away from Zimmerman. I still say he should be charged with 2nd degree murder and go to jail.
stands for decibels
March 27th, 2012
2:27 pm
Much like big dollar companies (who got exemptions) Walmart, UPS, and McDonalds. What doesn’t add up?
I kinda need specifics, rather than just throwing these names out there. My understanding is that they do offer healthcare insurance to their full timers; am I wrong about this?
JamVet
March 27th, 2012
2:27 pm
Now that it has been exposed that Zimmer was a registered Democrat, the tone has changed quite a bit.
Only amongst you people who sublimate morality to politics.
People of conscience and who seek justice could care less if he was a (fill in the blank).
Had that been a black man who killed that kid under the exact same circumstances, only you extremists on both ends would sing a different song. I’d still be clamoring for police department heads to roll…
stands for decibels
March 27th, 2012
2:29 pm
if you pointed out exactly how or why my comment was stupid as opposed to merely saying it was.
if you need me to point out what’s stupid about a grown man writing “The man said not only did Zimm have no history of racism being a Hispanic man” — as if someone can be magically free of racism due to Hispanic heritage! — there’s no hope for you.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
March 27th, 2012
2:30 pm
DDR peeking in:
Have all the racists left the blog yet? Just read some of the tripe from the T. Martin blog–sad that in the 200+ years america has been america, 200+ of those years america hasn’t changed not one bit.
Well, since I see a few are still here cleaning their sheets – I’m out.
They BOTH suck
March 27th, 2012
2:30 pm
SD
While the exemption thing to me is BS……. Those who bring up the exemption issue either do not know or are purposely forgetting to mention that this are not indefinite exemptions
Anyone can go look that up but when it is mentioned it is almost always left out……
wonder why
Fred ™ Being Black since 8:57 this morning
March 27th, 2012
2:30 pm
dB: If these companies already provide healthcare for their employees then what do they need an exemption for?
timbo
March 27th, 2012
2:31 pm
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/218427-toobin-obama-healthcare-reform-law-in-grave-grave-trouble
ty webb
March 27th, 2012
2:31 pm
Paul,
conservatives(I can’t speak for all, but hey, neither can you, although you’ve certainly tried) believe they should take care of their own healthcare costs…and some(including me) believe they should voluntarily help their neighbors with their costs if they can afford to.
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 27th, 2012
2:32 pm
“Tread carefully sir, you are all but advocating that the zim man is getting a raw deal.”
Mick,
Given that a bounty is on his head and that a significant number of blacks have already convicted the man in the court of public opinion I don’t think so. Besides. Its not in the Doom’s nature to tread lightly. I don’t roll that way.
“Diversion from the facts”
Lets talk about diversion from the facts Mick. According to the evidence Zimm had a broken nose and a laceration on the back of the head. This happens to be consistent with the eyewitness account of Trayvon being on top of Zimm pummeling him and the eyewitness stating that it was Zimm yelling help me, help me. Care to argue those facts sir?
“will not get you anywhere and a patrolling citizens crime watcher “packing heat is looking for trouble”
Really Mick? Millions of people also pack heat. Are they “looking for trouble”? – or simply wanting to be protected. Your idea that he was “looking for trouble” is your own pure conjecture based upon your pre-conceived notion that you know that the man was just out “looking for trouble”. Did it ever occur to you that the neighborhood had experienced several recent burglaries, that he was tired of it, and wanted to simply report any suspicious people that he hadn’t previously seen in the neighborhood to the police?
Talking Head
March 27th, 2012
2:32 pm
“No one cares about whether D or R or B or W in the case…..American wants to know how an unarmed child is killed and NO investigation happens.”
We do know that Zimmerman pulled the trigger and that a young man died. Until we know all the details of the case and what the police reports say according to witnesses, everything else is speculation.
I am distgusted however of how some people have been acting. Especially nationally known civil rights leaders (Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson), Democrat House members, and the young man’s Mother who is attempting to capitalize off of the life of her son.
jconservative
March 27th, 2012
2:37 pm
I want to see how the Court wrestles with the Constitution:
US Constitution, Article 1, Section 8
“To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes; …
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers,…”
The key is “necessary and proper”. Overall the Court has expanded the power of Congress and from time to time in individual cases they ease up on the power of Congress.
Is the insurance industry “commerce…among the several States”?
The decision will be fascinating.
Fred ™ Being Black since 8:57 this morning
March 27th, 2012
2:37 pm
@ty webb: Are you self insured?
William
March 27th, 2012
2:37 pm
“Nope…no need. Asking where in the world has Thomas been is 6 years, isn’t attacking him.”
Yeah, there really is a need if you want to make statements somewhat tied to reality and show yourself not to be a dolt. Explain to all of us here how the following statements are not an attack on Justice Thomas:
“Great questions from Clarence Thomas today! Oh, wait, the lump hasn’t asked a single question in 6 years?????”
“Seriously, what is the deal with Clarence Thomas not asking a question in 6 years? Did he speak enough at his embarrassing vetting trial?”
“Clarence’s wife must tell him which side to come down on. I wonder if she writes his decisions for him, too??”
“Justice Thomas is an intellectual giant and doesn’t need to ask questions.”
“He’s equal parts Teller, and Silent Bob … but without the substance”
SO…to return to the two quoted sentences in my original post. The first (which you did not repeat in your response):
“Libs attacking a conservative black judge = perfectly acceptable.”
I have just proven that.
The second sentence:
“Cons attacking a lib “black” president = racism”
There is abundant evidence of this out on the Internet. Case closed. Double standard, pure and simple.
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 27th, 2012
2:37 pm
stands for decibels,
The point that his friend was making was that he had been friends with Zimm for 6 years, that he had never heard him saying anything remotely racist, and that being a Hispanic man he was probably sensitive to racism. But go on with your nonsense if that’s all ya got. Its par for the course with you.
stands for decibels
March 27th, 2012
2:38 pm
If these companies already provide healthcare for their employees then what do they need an exemption for?
I think the information you want is here…
http://cciio.cms.gov/resources/files/approved_applications_for_waiver.html
Peadawg
March 27th, 2012
2:38 pm
“It’s okay to admit sound bites don’t make good legislation.” – And neither does forcing everyone to purchase a private product. No matter the reason.
Peadawg
March 27th, 2012
2:39 pm
“Congress provided exemptions for religious beliefs.” – Where did I mention anything about religion?
Road Scholar
March 27th, 2012
2:40 pm
If it is struck down, and since the mandate and other requirements that were from Republican recommendations , what exactly will the Repubs introduce as a health care bill that will address affordable healthcare for the 99%?
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
2:40 pm
Fred – I realize that wasn’t directed at me (how could it have been, I just got here?
) but I’ll answer anyway, and then hope I don’t get sucked into a conversation I don’t want to be in. Yes, yes I am self-insured.
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
March 27th, 2012
2:40 pm
“No one cares about whether D or R or B or W in the case…..American wants to know how an unarmed child is killed and NO investigation happens.”
It was my understanding the local police turned this case over to a Special Prosecutor from the State. Is that not true?
Mick
March 27th, 2012
2:40 pm
doomy
**wanted to simply report any suspicious people that he hadn’t previously seen in the neighborhood to the police?**
I don’t have a problem with that but when he crossed the line into wannabe cop and got out of his car, trouble starts. Do you think he would have gotten a broken nose or his head pounded or a kid killed if he just stayed in his car? You are losin it bigtime…
timbo
March 27th, 2012
2:41 pm
In their attempt to politicize and further polarize us all, democrats have decided to invite the parents of Trayvon Martin to Capitol Hill. Get ready for another trial balloon to be floated by the dems. Looks like the ridiculous ‘war on women’ has run its course, now it will be the ‘war on minorities’
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Parents-of-slain-Florida-teen-to-appear-on-Capitol-Hill/-/1637132/9717200/-/8r2hugz/-/index.html
JamVet
March 27th, 2012
2:41 pm
I am disgusted however of how some people have been acting. Especially nationally known
civil rightsleaders(Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson), Democrat House members, and the young man’s MotherNewt Gingrich and Rick Santorum who are attempting to capitalize off of the life of this young man.stands for decibels
March 27th, 2012
2:42 pm
and that being a Hispanic man he was probably sensitive to racism
Ah. Because people who have been vicitimized will never victimize, themselves!
Here’s a shovel. Keep digging.
Fred ™ Being Black since 8:57 this morning
March 27th, 2012
2:42 pm
Doomy: I don’t see how it can be argued any other way. Zimmerman went looking to kill a “blackie” and he did. The only reason you right wing nutcases are advocating for Zimmerman is because President Obama spoke up for Trayvon. If Obama is for it, you folks have to be against it.
Personally I’m a little surprised that you condone the murder of this boy. I wouldn’t have thought you to be that way. It’s not a R or D issue, it’s an issue on what is right. Zimmerman was provoking a confrontation in which he could shoot a “darkie” and get away with it. He thinks he did. The rest of the thinking WORLD thinks he didn’t. Trayvon’s crime was being black and wearing a hoodie. Zimmermans crime is murder in the second degree.
Fred ™ Being Black since 8:57 this morning
March 27th, 2012
2:44 pm
(ir)Rational: Will your costs go up, down, or remain the same under the new Obama care thing? Or is it too early to tell?
Talking Head
March 27th, 2012
2:44 pm
JamVet,
Is that what they teach you at the Ministry of Truth? You must know Winston Smith very well.
Joseph
March 27th, 2012
2:44 pm
At least Obama can say he killed bin laden…. Thats about the only positive that has come from his failed Presidency……
William
March 27th, 2012
2:44 pm
“In their attempt to politicize and further polarize us all, democrats have decided to invite the parents of Trayvon Martin to Capitol Hill.”
No, no….you misjudge their motives. As parents themselves, they are seeking only to comfort Trayvon’s parents in their grief. Why would you think otherwise?
sam
March 27th, 2012
2:45 pm
well said fred
Paul
March 27th, 2012
2:45 pm
ty webb
“conservatives(I can’t speak for all, but hey, neither can you, although you’ve certainly tried) believe they should take care of their own healthcare costs…and some(including me) believe they should voluntarily help their neighbors with their costs if they can afford to.”
That’s admirable, but the reality is we’ve a substantial portion of the population, costing others billions of dollars, who can’t or won’t provide for themselves. So when they need medical care many of the costs are paid for by their fellow citizens.
And it is this system conservatives are fighting tooth and nail to keep.
So they don’t want people to have to buy medical insurance.
And those who don’t buy will continue to impose huge costs on the rest of us.
JamVet
March 27th, 2012
2:45 pm
Head, and here’s another depraved piece of crap to focus your selective outrage on…
Ronald Kessler reporting from Washington, D.C.— True to form, President Obama has used the tragic shooting of an unarmed black teenager to prejudge the case and blame all Americans.
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Obama-Trayvon-Martin-race/2012/03/26/id/433848
Mick
March 27th, 2012
2:45 pm
**Cheney’s transplant, which cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, was apparently covered by both Medicare and his federal insurance as a former vice president.**
He’s a multimillionaire, yet he still is sucking off the gov’t teat? It’s ok for him but the rest of us? Pull up those bootstraps boys and girls…
Peadawg
March 27th, 2012
2:46 pm
“Will your costs go up, down, or remain the same under the new Obama care thing?”
So far it hasn’t helped. My costs have gone up before and after this was signed into law.
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
2:46 pm
Fred – The more interesting (to me anyway) part of this, that I have heard very, very few people advocate is that had they both lived, Trayvon would have been the one more likely to be covered under the “stand your ground” law. He was being followed (read pursued) by an unknown man, who “felt” he didn’t have a reason to be in the neighborhood. Then the man got out of his truck and approached him. He had the right to stand his ground and fight back. The fact that the man that instigated the whole thing pulled a gun and is now hiding behind a law that doesn’t apply is ridiculous.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
March 27th, 2012
2:47 pm
You know whats so funny to me about this whole Trayvon Martin thing? How there are a few on this board who won’t give the kid the benefit of the doubt. They can give a man who was formally ARRESTED of violent crimes a break, but not some 17 year old kid!!
They can take a person who has a HISTORY of violence’s word that he “acted in self defense”; as if it were gold.
Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend when the whole thing happened; this was already corroborated by the phone company and Martin’s Parent’s Attorneys; (the little girl told them that he was apprehensive about the man that was following him, she heard the man APPROACH Trayvon, she heard a scuffle an then the phone went dead); but the ignorant, vile RACISTS (yeah I said it RACISTS), on this board totally IGNORE her statement in favor of a man who has numerous arrests for VIOLENCE.
I bet, just like some of you armchair policemen, I can tell you exactly what happened that night:
Zimmerman approached Martin and either grabbed him or pushed him. Martin, fearful of a stranger attacking him lashed out. Zimmerman tried to fight back but was too fat and stupid and such a wimp he couldn’t beat a 17 year old kid that was 100 pounds LIGHTER than he was.
Punk Azz Zimmerman, sees that he’s loosing the fight, pulls out his gun and shoots the kid.
Then he says it was “self defense” He forgot to add “From getting my azz kicked by someone younger and lighter than me because I’m such a pu44$$y!”
Fred ™ Being Black since 8:57 this morning
March 27th, 2012
2:47 pm
It was my understanding the local police turned this case over to a Special Prosecutor from the State. Is that not true?
Yeah after their efforts to sweep it under the rug for a month didn’t work.
I’m really tired of folks trying to justify Zimmerman’s actions. You SAME people KNOW that OJ was guilty and are sickened by claims that he wasn’t despite the “verdict.” Quit acting like the OJ jury and pull your heads out of your collective hypocritical asses.
Face facts, OJ was guilty and so is Zimmerman.
JamVet
March 27th, 2012
2:47 pm
Head, nobody doubts your mastery at channeling Joseph McCarthy.
Road Scholar
March 27th, 2012
2:48 pm
Timbo: Sort of like the Terry Schiavo case by the repubs, eh?
Brosephus™
March 27th, 2012
2:48 pm
Breaking News: Zimmerman was a registered Democrat. Democratic Protestors are protesting democrat on democrat crime.
Hilarious on all venues.
Sometimes it is better to remain silent. Unfortunately, the overwhelming urge to perform feats of jackassery tend to override that internal silence button. This is one case. The political ideology of Zimmerman does not mean jack sh*t. Since you mention it, it goes to show that Democrats DO carry concealed, contrary to popular rightie rhetoric. Anybody who would get a laugh from anything related to this should have their head examined. However, in your case, I’d plead for an exception as to not waste the doctor’s time.
———————-
Given that a bounty is on his head and that a significant number of blacks have already convicted the man in the court of public opinion I don’t think so.
I’d suggest you look a bit harder at the photos and videos of people protesting. You’ll be surprised to find that the crowds do not look like the reverse of a Tea Party demonstration. There are equal mixes of Blacks, Whites, males, females, and any other group you can think of. If asking for justice to be rendered equates to finding someone guilty, then I guess you have a point. Otherwise, you’re blowing hot air for the sake of an ideological argument.
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
2:49 pm
Fred – My costs have gone up each of the past two years (and the insurance company said it was because of the AFCA, but who knows), but then again, they weren’t exactly going down the years prior to that. So, I guess I’m with Pea on this one. They have gone up since, but if I remember correctly, they were going up before too. Also, I had just hit a new “age bracket” when the first big jump happened, so that probably had something to do with it too.
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 27th, 2012
2:49 pm
“Do you think he would have gotten a broken nose or his head pounded or a kid killed if he just stayed in his car? You are losin it bigtime…”
Mick,
So what are you saying. That getting out of his car automatically means that it is acceptable for Trayvon to then attack him? Is that what you are saying? According to testimony, he got out of his car to confront Trayvon, they had words, and then he went back to his car. Is there something you don’t understand about him going “back to his car”? In other words he walked away from the situation. And then Trayvon allegedly attacked him and hence that is when the eyewitness saw Trayvon on top of him pummeling him. The story is pretty consistent.
Zimm could have avoided the entire thing but just because he was an ass in wanting to know who this young man was does not give the young man the justification to physically assault the man. It does not. Please explain to me how someone deserves to be attacked when they choose to walk away from the situation?
Paul
March 27th, 2012
2:49 pm
ty
It’s this conflict between the reality of the situation and the expressed desire of conservatives that I find so fascinating.
Peadawg
““Congress provided exemptions for religious beliefs.” – Where did I mention anything about religion?”
You didn’t. I cited Aquagirl’s post, which referenced a group who do not use doctors as a matter of principle, which was a comment on your post that some people would not use doctors.
harvey
March 27th, 2012
2:50 pm
Justice Thomas doesn’t ask questions because he is an affirmative action choice.
Brosephus™
March 27th, 2012
2:50 pm
Doom: “According to the
evidencereports Zimm had a broken nose and a laceration on the back of the head.”I don’t think there has been any report produced from police or the EMT service that shows that his nose was broken that night. Anytime you’re willing to take a verbal, unsubstantiated report as evidence, you’ve lost objectivity in analyzing what really happened.
Jefferson
March 27th, 2012
2:50 pm
That gun really help George out, I’d say…not.
sam
March 27th, 2012
2:51 pm
if a black neigborhood watch volunteer shot a white kid in buckhead (with or without hoodie), do think that guy would be walking the streets while the police gathered more information? not likely…the issue for me isnt whether this guy is racist, its the fact that he went looking for trouble, ended up shooting and killing an unarmed kid and has not been picked up and charged with a crime. the issue for the folks in sanford (and everywhere else now) is it seems like a young black life is worth less than a young white life, because again if it were the other way around you know damn well the black guy would be locked up immediately and we’ll sort out the details later..
Mick
March 27th, 2012
2:52 pm
doomy
Geez, the way you lay it out it’s as if….you were there…. but you weren’t…. so stop inventing scenerio’s. I’m done with this topic…
Brosephus™
March 27th, 2012
2:52 pm
Is the insurance industry “commerce…among the several States”?
Yes. Especially in light of one of the GOP ideas being that insurance companies should be allowed to sell across state lines. Many people already purchase and maintain insurance from out of state providers.
William
March 27th, 2012
2:52 pm
“If it is struck down, and since the mandate and other requirements that were from Republican recommendations , what exactly will the Repubs introduce as a health care bill that will address affordable healthcare for the 99%?”
A fair question. But a bad solution does not become a good one simply because it is the only one presently on the table. I do have my fears that there is nary a politician in Washington who is up to the task of solving the complicated problem in a good way. We are in bad shape all around.
Fred ™ Being Black since 8:57 this morning
March 27th, 2012
2:54 pm
(ir)Rational: Did you get that from Boortz? I did lol. I didn’t hear him say it, but I read in in Nealz Newz. It’s also where I got the charge of second degree murder. I don’t think he actually “planned” to kill someone, but he sure as hell was going to provoke a confrontation. Then, as DDR described, he got his punk ass whipped so he pulled his gun and killed that boy. Second Degree Murder.
DDR: I agree with your 2:47 and also your earlier one where you didn’t want to sully yourself with the idiots. It saddens me that folks would stand with Zimmerman just because President Obama spoke in favor of Trayvon and the right wing puppet masters then decided to make it an issue against Obama. Just plain pitiful.
Paul
March 27th, 2012
2:55 pm
Afternoon, (ir)Rational
“My costs have gone up each of the past two years (and the insurance company said it was because of the AFCA, but who knows), ”
We’ve had discussions on several threads with some good citations that generally show insurance companies telling their policyholders it’s the Care Act, but when one gets past the “blame someone else, not us” excuses we find that does not hold water.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
March 27th, 2012
2:55 pm
The point that his friend was making was that he had been friends with Zimm for 6 years, that he had never heard him saying anything remotely racist, and that being a Hispanic man he was probably sensitive to racism. But go on with your nonsense
EVERYONE has some sort of racist / bigoted tendencies. It’s hard, living in America not to. Even I struggle sometimes with doing business with Oriental people because of my perception and experiences with them. For you to say that since Zimmerman was half Hispanic that he somehow MISSED the bigotry bug, is not only stupid; but ridiculous too.
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
2:55 pm
Thulsa – In this case, yes, Zimmerman getting out of his car did give Trayvon the right to attack him. See my above post for the reasoning, or just accept the fact that one was covered under the “stand your ground” law, and the other is still alive.
Recon 0311 2533
March 27th, 2012
2:55 pm
I see the blog is back on Zimmerman. I think since more facts have been released it’s not all together certain that Zimmerman is guilty. The way it was first reported I thought that he was indeed on the wrong side of the law. I’ll wait to see what further information is made available and what the Grand Jury has to say before formulating my opinion.
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 27th, 2012
2:56 pm
Brocephus,
Let me ask you something and please answer it as honestly as you can? If you randomly asked 100 black people if they think Zimm is guilty of murder how many of them would say yes, how many would say no, and how many would reserve judgment and say let the system play out. Be honest sir. Because from what I’ve seen from Reverand Sharpton and Jackson and company the consensus seems to be that he is already guilty in the black court of public opinion. The fact that these 2 complete buffoons are regarded as supposed leaders to many of the 40 million black Americans is in and of itself quite astonishing.
Brosephus™
March 27th, 2012
2:56 pm
It was my understanding the local police turned this case over to a Special Prosecutor from the State. Is that not true?
Long after the incident happened…
Gov. Rick Scott appointed an outside prosecutor Thursday night to investigate the shooting death of Trayvon Martin and formed a task force that will review the state’s controversial “stand your ground” law, reports Jim Saunders of the News Service of Florida.
http://saintpetersblog.com/2012/03/governor-appoints-special-prosecutor-in-trayvon-martin-case/
That was reported on Thursday, March 22nd which is almost a month to the date that the incident happened.
sam
March 27th, 2012
2:57 pm
according to testimony, according to witnesses, according to reports…how exactly do you get your hands on these official reports? according to your arse, your head needs to wiped off
Peadawg
March 27th, 2012
2:57 pm
DebbieDoRight,
In that long rant @ 2:47, while good arguments, YOU are ignoring Zimmerman’s side of the story and the 13 yr old witness.
Some of us just look at both sides and wait for all the facts to come out before coming to conclusions. While others like you, Jesse, and Al are the ones jumping straight to conclusions.
They BOTH suck
March 27th, 2012
2:59 pm
“You’ll be surprised to find that the crowds do not look like the reverse of a Tea Party demonstration. There are equal mixes of Blacks, Whites, males, females, and any other group you can think of. ”
That would be to hard to admit……….. Many want to imply the NPB, which has little support, are some of the main protesters..
last night Anderson Cooper in his quest to gin up ratings put on the NBP……… they might have been 15 people around the spokesmen who was at the NBP protest… Compared that to the numerous othe protests around the country that have a huge mix of races……..
That doesn’t fit the narrative so they must keep bringing up Sharpton, Jackson and the NBP with implication and innuendo that they speak for and represent the 10 of 1000s of protesters across the country
JB's DreamSickle
March 27th, 2012
3:00 pm
Many of Kennedy’s interrogation could have been ripped right out of the GOP playbook. But at least one of his questions cut right to the heart of the battle over the individual mandate:
Via the court transcript:
JUSTICE KENNEDY: Can you create commerce in order to regulate it?
The question clearly threw the Obama administration’s legal team off of its game, forcing Verrilli to defend why the Affordable Care Act regulates the existing healthcare market, rather than forces Americans to buy a new product.
Fred ™ Being Black since 8:57 this morning
March 27th, 2012
3:00 pm
sam
March 27th, 2012
2:51 pm
if a black neigborhood watch volunteer shot a white kid in buckhead (with or without hoodie), do think that guy would be walking the streets while the police gathered more information? not likely…the issue for me isnt whether this guy is racist, its the fact that he went looking for trouble, ended up shooting and killing an unarmed kid and has not been picked up and charged with a crime. the issue for the folks in sanford (and everywhere else now) is it seems like a young black life is worth less than a young white life, because again if it were the other way around you know damn well the black guy would be locked up immediately and we’ll sort out the details later..
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
I hate hearing and reading that BS. But it’s TRUE which I hate even more. Had the colors been reversed, and Zimmerman a black man, he WOULD still be in jail. No question about it.
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 27th, 2012
3:00 pm
“In this case, yes, Zimmerman getting out of his car did give Trayvon the right to attack him”
Um. No. It doesn’t. And the fact that you think it does speaks volumes about your reasoning ability. And secondly the man was not attacked when he got out of the car. He was allegedly attacked when he turned his back and went back to the car. I will ask it one more time so that the liberals on here will understand this. Is there something you do not understand about Zimm walking away from the situation and then being attacked after walking back to his car? What is it that your minds are having a problem comprehending about him walking away from the situation?
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
3:01 pm
Fred – Actually no, and my wife is going to be PISSED that he has stated that opinion. She helped me come to that conclusion. But she HATES Boortz, yet seems to have some very similar opinions and it always pisses her off when I inform her of that. I would say that is a fair assessment though.
Paul – Yeah, I assume that they were just passing the blame, but at the same time, all comparable insurance plans went up correspondingly so that I have been unable to find cheaper.
Peadawg
March 27th, 2012
3:01 pm
“Zimmerman getting out of his car did give Trayvon the right to attack him.”
If Trayvon attacked him when he approached, yes. But NOT if Trayvon followed Zimmerman back to his car.
Matti
March 27th, 2012
3:01 pm
Thulsa,
Sorry to break the news, but that little bitty thing is not a boot, and it’s not even near anybody’s throat. But it’s great that you have such a special imagination!
Think
March 27th, 2012
3:02 pm
Every American should own a gun or be fined $5,000 per year. If you don’t have it you will need protection at some point.
timbo
March 27th, 2012
3:02 pm
The only racists I see so far in the Trayvon case is Rev. Sharpton, Rev. Jackson, and the New Black Panthers. Everyone else is just waiting for the facts to come out.
They BOTH suck
March 27th, 2012
3:02 pm
“The fact that these 2 complete buffoons are regarded as supposed leaders to many of the 40 million black Americans is in and of itself quite astonishing.”
While they have a following.. who are all these people that regard them as “leaders”…
Out of the numerous black people that I know………. I know exactly 2 that would fit your quote……..
These blacks would be anywhere from liberal to fairly conservative and a few who could careless about politics
Fred ™ Being Black since 8:57 this morning
March 27th, 2012
3:02 pm
Recon 0311 2533
March 27th, 2012
2:55 pm
I see the blog is back on Zimmerman. I think since more facts have been released it’s not all together certain that Zimmerman is guilty. The way it was first reported I thought that he was indeed on the wrong side of the law. I’ll wait to see what further information is made available and what the Grand Jury has to say before formulating my opinion.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I wouldn’t say there have been more “facts” released Del, just more excuses. But I respect you for waiting and not immediately “taking up for the team.”
William
March 27th, 2012
3:03 pm
“Please explain to me how someone deserves to be attacked when they choose to walk away from the situation?”
Well, I suppose it is possible Zimmerman may have uttered some inflammatory (or “fighting”) words before walking off. Is it not? TD, it appears you are getting to wound up in this. The very sad fact is that this incident appears to have been poorly investigated and handled and we are just now learning about it a MONTH after it happened. I personally am not trusting much of the “evidence” at this point and am willing to let the FBI and other agencies get to the bottom of it. All I have said is that Zimmerman should NOT have gotten in and out of his truck to engage this young man after explicitly being told not to. That is the only wrong I can clearly see at this point.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
March 27th, 2012
3:03 pm
Great questions from Clarence Thomas today!
Oh, wait, the lump hasn’t asked a single question in 6 years?????
WTF
Well, I tried to warn you about putting one of Those People on the SC. He ain’t understood a word anybody said in 6 years. But would you listen to me? Noooooooooooooooooooooo!
I think he just waits and sees how Alito votes. Then he votes the same way.
Anyhow, if the SC rules against Obamacare I figure this blog is saved. Otherwise a bunch of godly Conservatives here would refuse to pay the fine and get packed off to prison for not paying the IRS. That would force Bookman to set up a live blog from prison and we would all be there either as inmates or visitors. Then Bookman would have a heck of a time riding herd. He couldn’t exackly order inmates like Sinkus and jm and kayaker out of prison for violating blog rules. He’d be in deep doo-doo for sure.
Have a good p.m. everybody.
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
3:03 pm
Thulsa – Call me a liberal again, and we’ll have problems (we’ve been over this). And all we have, is Zimmerman’s statement to the press that he was walking back to his car. What part of “Trayvon had the right to stand his ground” do you not understand? Do you have kids/grandkids (no idea how old you are)? Do you/did you not warn them about predators when they were growing up? Are we supposed to expect a 17 year old to make rational decisions when someone is following him for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHATSOEVER? Or are we going to give the guy with the gun the benefit of the doubt simply because he claims he was attacked by a 17 year old?
Brosephus™
March 27th, 2012
3:03 pm
Doom
It depends on who you ask. If you ask someone who has a background in criminal investigations, I seriously doubt they would give you an answer one way or another. To try to paint all Blacks as a monolithic thinking group does a complete disservice to your entire argument. If I argued something here saying the same thing about Whites and their thinking, I’d get run off this blog very quickly.
Was it not his gun that killed Trayvon? Did he not bring that gun into the situation? Before you pass judgement towards his innocence, which is no different than someone jumping to the conclusion that he’s guilty, you should allow the investigators to analyze the evidence to see what really happened. Any investigator will tell you there are three stories in a case. The victim, the perpetrator, and the truth. So far, all we have in this case is one person’s story.
Thulsa Doom with his boot on liberal throats
March 27th, 2012
3:03 pm
“Had the colors been reversed, and Zimmerman a black man, he WOULD still be in jail. No question about it.”
Absolutely! OJ Simpson agrees with that! If the situation were reversed and a black man did the killing no way he would get off scot free. No way!
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
March 27th, 2012
3:04 pm
It saddens me that folks would stand with Zimmerman just because President Obama spoke in favor of Trayvon and the right wing puppet masters then decided to make it an issue against Obama. Just plain pitiful.
Yeah — what’s even MORE pitiful is how some on this blog will LIE just to make themselves look smarter than they actually are. It’s hurtful because the bigger picture is that a kid was shot and a MURDERER is hiding behind a stupid, poorly written law.
This law will wreck havoc upon the people of Florida until someone shoots a high profile person, (athlete, tourist, grandmother); and then something will be done about it.
but in the meantime, ignorant people will SULLY the name of some kid just so that they can keep a badly written law on the books.
Brosephus™
March 27th, 2012
3:05 pm
That doesn’t fit the narrative so they must keep bringing up Sharpton, Jackson and the NBP with implication and innuendo that they speak for and represent the 10 of 1000s of protesters across the country
Exactly!!
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
3:06 pm
Pea – Do we have anyone besides Zimmerman saying differently?
Fred ™ Being Black since 8:57 this morning
March 27th, 2012
3:06 pm
The fact that these 2 complete buffoons are regarded as supposed leaders to many of the 40 million black Americans is in and of itself quite astonishing.
Really? I have a buttload of black friends for teens to folks over 70. I have yet to have a single one say a single good word about either Sharpton OR Jackson. I know my personal experiences are in no way a scientific sampling of the black population, but remember this Doomy, Jackson ran for President and wasn’t even a contender lol. Black people didn’t even vote for him………
They BOTH suck
March 27th, 2012
3:06 pm
Recon
I think we must wait and hope that justice prevails based on facts…… not politics, innuendo what what our personal perceptions might be
Scooter
March 27th, 2012
3:08 pm
How many supporters of this Affordable Care Act have quoted “They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”? How many of those realize that is exactly what they are doing by supporting this particular law?
Brosephus™
March 27th, 2012
3:09 pm
Um. No. It doesn’t. And the fact that you think it does speaks volumes about your reasoning ability. And secondly the man was not attacked when he got out of the car. He was allegedly attacked when he turned his back and went back to the car.
I’d suggest you go to Google Maps and look at the actual place where the incident happened. They were between buildings, which would mean that Zimmerman walked quite a ways from his vehicle to follow Martin. Nobody’s said that he drove his vehicle between buildings, so he did a bit of walking to get into the situation in the first place.
On the other side, I have heard some legal experts surmise that Martin himself may have been covered by the “stand your ground” law as he was within right to be where he was while being approached by someone who could have been perceived as a threat. Once again, I’ll recommend you reserve your judgement until the facts are known.
They BOTH suck
March 27th, 2012
3:09 pm
Fred @ 3:06
Exactly right. Some people want to so bad to imply that Jackson and Sharpton are some how appointed leaders of the majority of blacks that no matter what….. they can’t get away from the talking points..
They have a following for sure, but in no way speak for the enitre black community………. They may at times want people to think they do, but anyone with common sense knows that they do not
Peadawg
March 27th, 2012
3:09 pm
“Pea – Do we have anyone besides Zimmerman saying differently?”
Only thing I’ve seen is the girlfriend that was on the phone w/ Trayvon. We’ll probably never know what truly happened and Zimmerman will probably walk b/c of lack of evidence.
But that won’t stop ‘ol Jesse, Al, et al from ASSuming. Difference is, it only makes an ars out of themselves this time, not me.
DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman
March 27th, 2012
3:09 pm
Peadawg – Zimmerman is a known VIOLENT person. He has been arrested numerous times for VIOLENCE. He had a bench warrant taken out on him for VIOLENCE against a woman; now all of sudden he’s a freaking CHOIR BOY?!? Are you kidding me?!?
===========
The fact that these 2 complete buffoons are regarded as supposed leaders to many of the 40 million black Americans is in and of itself quite astonishing.
Doom – How many people voted form Bush and followed him into humungous debt? How many people DAILY follow LimpBalls? Before you call someone a buffoon, you’d better look before you take that leap.
Also, again let me remind you, BRO AND I DON’T KNOW EVERY BLACK PERSON IN AMERICA, HOW THEY RESPOND TO THINGS, HOW THEY’LL REACT TO SITUATIONS AND WHO THEY’LL VOTE FOR.
Thank you.
JamVet
March 27th, 2012
3:11 pm
Criminal charges may likely never be leveled against Rambo Zimmerman.
But I assure you, like the aforementioned Orenthal James, this vigilante with a violent history, is in HUGE trouble in terms of an almost certain civil case against him.
And his insanely provocative, needless and deadly actions have probably ruined his life now…
William
March 27th, 2012
3:11 pm
“Well, I tried to warn you about putting one of Those People on the SC. He ain’t understood a word anybody said in 6 years. But would you listen to me? Noooooooooooooooooooooo! I think he just waits and sees how Alito votes. Then he votes the same way.”
You satire is usually pretty good, but here it fails because it is illogical. Your persona is responding to a post by a liberal, not a conservative. And it was conservatives who put Thomas on the bench. You haven’t the skill to create a Gulliver so you probably shouldn’t even try.
Peadawg
March 27th, 2012
3:12 pm
“now all of sudden he’s a freaking CHOIR BOY?!?” – Nope, never said he was. Simple answer to simple question.
Brosephus™
March 27th, 2012
3:12 pm
But I assure you, like the aforementioned Orenthal James, this vigilante with a violent history, is in HUGE trouble in terms of an almost certain civil case against him.
I can’t state that enough…
William
March 27th, 2012
3:13 pm
“How many people voted form Bush and followed him into humungous debt? How many people DAILY follow LimpBalls? Before you call someone a buffoon, you’d better look before you take that leap.”
I voted for Bush twice. Everyone has been “following” government into “humungous debt” for decades. I do not listen to Limbaugh. Where do I jump?
They BOTH suck
March 27th, 2012
3:14 pm
DDR
“Before you call someone a buffoon, you’d better look before you take that leap.”
probably has taken all mirrors out of his house……… just in case he may have to look into one and reflect
William
March 27th, 2012
3:15 pm
“Criminal charges may likely never be leveled against Rambo Zimmerman.”
That is a funny phrase, JV – “Rambo Zimmerman”.
(ir)Rational
March 27th, 2012
3:15 pm
Bro – Well reasoned arguments. Guess we should all defer police investigation type stuff to you (unless there are some other police types here that I don’t know about). What you say makes sense, especially the part about withholding judgement until the facts are known/decided. But then again, I thought OJ was guilty (even as an 8 year old I had an opinion about that), Casey Anthony was guilty and I think this guy is guilty. Probably not of 1st degree murder, but definitely deserves some jail time.
Pea – We’ll have to wait to see what the grand jury, special prosecutor and Justice Department say, but I suspect the facts are going to reveal that Zimmerman has been trying to cover his butt after he shot a kid for kicking his butt.
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
March 27th, 2012
3:16 pm
“Only thing I’ve seen is the girlfriend that was on the phone w/ Trayvon. We’ll probably never know what truly happened and Zimmerman will probably walk b/c of lack of evidence.”
What about the witness who stated he saw a someone in red on top of someone punching them. Which is what Zimmerman claimed and the medical facts supported that.
To say “Justice” is only a guilty verdict against Zimmerman is not wanting to see Justice. He may well be guilty but we don’t know that yet.
William
March 27th, 2012
3:16 pm
“Really? I have a buttload of black friends for teens to folks over 70. ”
Do you mean “boatload”?
They BOTH suck
March 27th, 2012
3:17 pm
Scooter
Good point… Doesn’t the same apply for those who support the Patriot Act?
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
March 27th, 2012
3:18 pm
“but I suspect the facts are going to reveal that Zimmerman has been trying to cover his butt after he shot a kid for kicking his butt.”
You say that like it OK to kick the crap out of someone.
They BOTH suck
March 27th, 2012
3:18 pm
“Really? I have a buttload of black friends for teens to folks over 70. ”
Do you mean “boatload”?
Maybe both
hahahahahahaha
JB's DreamSickle
March 27th, 2012
3:18 pm
Black youths die at the hands of other black youths on a daily basis. I’ll get behind the protesters when they get behind that inconvenient truth.