Constitutional torture in the cause of tort reform

Upon taking control of the U.S. House in 2010, Republicans announced that every bill proposed or passed in that chamber would be required to cite specific provisions of the U.S. Constitution that authorize Congress to take such action.

Here, for example, is the language originally contained in H.R. 5, which was approved in the House this week. The bill would abolish the Independent Payment Advisory Board and impose new national limits on malpractice claims.

Commerce

Hmmmmm.

So, “Health care and insurance industries are industries affecting interstate commerce….”?

They “affect interstate commerce by contributing to the high costs of health care and premiums for health care liability insurance purchased by health care system providers”?

Therefore, the federal government has the authority under the commerce clause to pass legislation dictating how states must handle those issues?

Interesting. Very interesting.

Now, as it happens, the U.S. Supreme Court will be hearing arguments next week in an important case that also revolves around these very questions. In fact, in its defense of ObamaCare, the administration will use language almost identical to that of House Republicans. They will tell the nine justices that “health care and insurance industries are industries affecting interstate commerce.” They will also claim that health insurance and health care “affect interstate commerce by contributing to the high costs of health care and premiums for health care liability insurance purchased by health care system providers.”

Recognizing the potential embarrassment, not to mention the bad timing, U.S. Rep. Rob Woodall of Georgia this week introduced an amendment that stripped H.R. 5 of the language cited above. His amendment was approved just before the bill went onto final passage. Now, the bill contains no constitutional justification for imposing federal limits on state malpractice awards. Apparently, since they can’t find language in the Constitution to justify their actions that would not also justify ObamaCare, they simply abandoned any pretense that it matters.

– Jay Bookman

535 comments Add your comment

Question Man

March 24th, 2012
12:44 pm

Jm

March 24th, 2012
1:01 pm

The individual mandate will be viewed differently by the court.

That said, Republicans are being stupid and violating their states rights principles.

Jm

March 24th, 2012
1:04 pm

Btw, plug for Jamie Dupree who will be covering the scotus decision. And who is far more unbiased about the facts than Mr. Bookman.

Doggone/GA

March 24th, 2012
1:05 pm

“That said, Republicans are being stupid and violating their states rights principles”

There’s your mistake. You actually think politicians HAVE principles

Finn McCool (Class Warfare === Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)

March 24th, 2012
1:05 pm

Republicans are two-faced?

whodathunkit?

Jm

March 24th, 2012
1:05 pm

I’m looking as forward to the Medicaid related decision as I am the ruling on Obamacare

Jm

March 24th, 2012
1:06 pm

Doggone, you would know

Jm

March 24th, 2012
1:07 pm

Some politicians do have principles. Many do not.

I don’t speak in absolutes like you doggone.

Doggone/GA

March 24th, 2012
1:09 pm

“Doggone, you would know”

giggle

carlosgvv

March 24th, 2012
1:11 pm

The Constitution is what the Supreme Court says it is. So, if Democrats don’t like this, they can challenge it in Court and hope it works it’s way up to the Supreme Court and they agree to hear the case.

Jm

March 24th, 2012
1:11 pm

What’s relevant: the SC will be deciding the limits of the commerce clause

If the individual mandate is approved, there will be virtually no limit on the use of the commerce clause

My guess is they will rule the mandate unconstitutional. But it’s probably a 50-50 thing right now.

getalife

March 24th, 2012
1:12 pm

They have no shame.

ObamaCare is here to stay.

No tort reform.

Doggone/GA

March 24th, 2012
1:13 pm

“I don’t speak in absolutes like you doggone”

Wanna bet? “Doggone, you would know”

Jm

March 24th, 2012
1:13 pm

“Now, the bill contains no constitutional justification for imposing federal limits on state malpractice awards.”

So jay is making a mountain out of a molehill per the usual….

TaxPayer

March 24th, 2012
1:14 pm

That hypocritical application of the commerce clause would be funny if not left in the hands of the Republicans to contort to their own whims.

Jm

March 24th, 2012
1:14 pm

Getalife

Repealing obamacare will be virtually impossible. But it can be neutered.

Jm

March 24th, 2012
1:20 pm

The crux of the argument will be over whether a fine for not purchasing a product is justifiable under the commerce clause. At least regarding obamacare.

The impact of a ruling regarding undue burden on the states with respect to Medicaid will be riveting…

So exciting!! :)

Thulsa Doom

March 24th, 2012
1:21 pm

Jm,

Likewise I will be curious about the Medicaid decision which according to the last info I saw consumes 22% on average of state budgets.

TaxPayer

March 24th, 2012
1:21 pm

In fact, by removing that constitutional justification, the Republicans hath done commited the very special double dog dare analogy — the double whammy thank your mammy hypocritical constitutional contortion. I don’t know if there’s a dare more powerful. This one may have to be settled at the stars and stripes flag pole of shame. Let ye Republican who is without shame affix firmly his tongue to the properly chilled to below freezing flagpole of shame and if he can removeth said tongue after having left it affixed for one full minute without loss of skin from forked speaking aid then he shall be known as witch and burned at the stake.

getalife

March 24th, 2012
1:23 pm

jm,

ObamaCare will be another program the gop want to end.

Like SS, Medicaid, Medicare, etc….

Oscar

March 24th, 2012
1:27 pm

The Congress finds that health care. . . . contributes to the high cost of health care.”
Hard to argue with that one.

Jm

March 24th, 2012
1:28 pm

Getalife

Romney plan: repeal and replace

Of course it will really have to just be reform obamacare

But that is better than leave it like it is

Doom- we’ll see. Could be a huge day for freedom in America

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

March 24th, 2012
1:29 pm

Well, the reason I want Obamacare repealed is because I don’t think everybody should have health insurance. Just the Producers in this country. The rest can get a tin cup and beg for help at innerstate ramps. That’s the way God intended things. I think people are making too much about what the Bible says about helping the poor and not letting rich people into Heaven. I mean, let’s be reasonable.

Anyhow, it sure will get intrusting when the SC rules. One side or the other will be going for guns. Besides, if the SC rules this mandate is constitutional the people that are going to get fined will be squealing like hungry piggies and talking about breaking off from this country. I’ll need to take a break from this blog and find something else to do on my breaks because I don’t think my Soul is ready for all the cussing and whining. See, I got a delicate Christian Soul.

Have a good Saturday everybody. I sure hope you got something to do besides set inside and blog.

Georgia on my mind....

March 24th, 2012
1:29 pm

Jm

March 24th, 2012
1:30 pm

Doom. Medicaid is needed. It just needs a massive overhaul. It could be three times more effective at half the cost.

Oscar

March 24th, 2012
1:32 pm

I would like to see the Court do away with the mandates and leave the rest of the bill in place. But they could go in any direction,striking down the whole bill or just parts of it
Majority of Americans like the part about doing away with pre-existing conditions clauses and part that prohibits companies dropping coverage after insured gets sick. deliman for the court.

Jm

March 24th, 2012
1:33 pm

Of course, now that we have obamacare to save everyone, someone should be making the argument to just end Medicaid entirely….

Oscar

March 24th, 2012
1:34 pm

I think people are making too much about what the Bible says about helping the poor and not letting rich people into Heaven. I mean, let’s be reasonable.
______

How do you make to much of something, It’s either there and you recognize it and follow it, or you reject it and ignore it. don’t see much room to acknowlege it and make a little of it, but not much.

Streets of Buckhead Developer

March 24th, 2012
1:38 pm

Our states’ rights have been stolen by activist liberal judges and the democrat controlled media. The states should take back their powers.

Like the constitution says, Georgia should take back our rights – especially since Georgia is #1 in administering rights:
1. Georgia
> Overall grade: F (49%)
> Public access to information: F
> Legislative accountability: F
> Political financing: F
> Ethics enforcement agencies: F

http://www.foxbusiness.com/investing/2012/03/22/americas-most-corrupt-states/

Jm

March 24th, 2012
1:39 pm

Thulsa Doom

March 24th, 2012
1:40 pm

“I sure hope you got something to do besides set inside and blog.”- as he blogs away on a beautiful saturday afternoon.

Thulsa Doom

March 24th, 2012
1:42 pm

Jm,

Isn’t calling a Democrat a crook kinda redundant? I mean come on the definition of a Dem is one who steals himself benefits from other taxpayers via the ballot box.

0311/8541/5811/1811

March 24th, 2012
1:43 pm

Ah …………………………… that pesky Constitution !

Jm

March 24th, 2012
1:44 pm

Looks like Paul ryan can pay for his rate reductions if there is the political will to do what is right

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-24/u-s-tax-breaks-valued-at-more-than-1-trillion-wsj-reports.html

Thulsa Doom

March 24th, 2012
1:44 pm

Jm,

I agree. I don’t want medicaid ended either. Just seriously revamped, requirements tightened, fraud prevention strengthened, etc.

Jm

March 24th, 2012
1:47 pm

GA was last in ethics. In the world’s worst executed research study. Corrupt NJ came in first in ethics. Defects of the study below.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-22/contest-for-funniest-new-jersey-joke-has-a-winner.html

Oscar

March 24th, 2012
1:48 pm

“I sure hope you got something to do besides set inside and blog.”- as he blogs away on a beautiful saturday afternoon.

________

The mail was just delivered. Now I have something better to do. Go get the mail. But what else could be better than blogging with you guys and looking out the window at the beautiful spring flowers, inside away from the pollen.

0311/8541/5811/1811

March 24th, 2012
1:48 pm

carlosgvv:

“The Constitution is what the Supreme Court says it is”

Disagree …………. the Constitution is what it is but the Supreme Court determines what will be enforced by their interpretation (right or wrong).

Jm

March 24th, 2012
1:50 pm

Doom. Yeah, there’s probably not a ton of Medicaid fraud. The bigger issue the use of funds. Instead of using Medicaid dollars on preventative services for those most in need, much of it is spent on chronic incurable diseases and for people who should be self sufficient but aren’t

Ayn Rant

March 24th, 2012
1:50 pm

Let’s hope the members of the Court put aside their political agendas and consider the Constitutional issues in this case. But that’s unlikely.

No Americans have done more harm to our country than the Republican members of the Supreme Court who, in the Bush vs. Gore fiasco, put aside the Constitution, statistics, common sense, and the express will of the American voters by electing George Bush in 2000. The 8 years of Bush/Cheney followed by 3 years of Republican obstructionism constituted a national disaster from which we are only now beginning the long recovery.

kayaker 71

March 24th, 2012
1:51 pm

This entire SC review of Bozocare will center on the mandate. The main question will be….. can the federal government mandate that a citizens of this country buy a commodity. All of this smoke and mirrors thing about this being a tax. It is not a tax…. it is the federal government mandating that a citizen buy something that they deem appropriate, nearly at the point of a gun. The mandate is needed to fund this fiasco…. without the mandate, it dies an appropriate death.

getalife

March 24th, 2012
1:52 pm

There are voting records of the gop trying to end programs.

Which part of end do you not understand?

Old Timer

March 24th, 2012
1:53 pm

Jm,

I agree. I don’t want medicaid ended either. Just seriously revamped, requirements tightened, fraud prevention strengthened, etc.

I wish somebody would explain to me why, if everybody in the nation is required to be covered by health insurance, we would still need Medicaid. I can understand providing some help to the poor for expenses not picked up by health insurance coverage, but I’m having trouble understanding why there’s still a need for full-blown coverage under Medicaid.

getalife

March 24th, 2012
1:55 pm

kay,

Your sc con activist judges will vote for the mandate.

Brace yourself.

Jm

March 24th, 2012
1:55 pm

Old timer

Good question

Why do we need obamacare AND medicaid?

Jm

March 24th, 2012
1:57 pm

Hollywood is on zimmerman’s side. Pro-vigilante they are.

Jm

March 24th, 2012
1:59 pm

Obamacare pays for health insurance for those who can’t afford it.

Do they need Medicaid also?

kayaker 71

March 24th, 2012
1:59 pm

getalife,

I am not so concerned about my “sc con activist judges” as I am the liberals on the court. Although this has no business being a partisan issue, it will no doubt turn out that way. You should be just as concerned about the government telling you what to buy as I am. Or perhaps you like being led around by the nose by a bunch of government hacks.

Oscar

March 24th, 2012
2:02 pm

Old timer

Good question

Why do we need obamacare AND medicaid
____________

Under the bill and existing law, medicaid is for those people who are not required by the bill to purchase health insurance. that group has been expanded by the bill. There are some people not required to buy insurance, some required to buy it and they will get reimbursed after they file their tax reture (that’s a joke) and some just required to buy. I’m just explaining, sounds nutty to me but that’s how it is supposed to work. don’t see how it possibly can, but that’s the idea.
Germany has mandates. So does Mass. Romney said it works well there..

Oscar

March 24th, 2012
2:06 pm

kayaker 71

______

The truth is, all issued before the court are decided as partisian issues. Lately with four on one side and four on the other, and one in a middle that goes back and forth.

jconservative

March 24th, 2012
2:09 pm

The Commerce Clause of the US Constitution, Article 1. Section 8:

“To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;”…”To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.”

This gives Congress a very broad paint brush. The Roberts Court has trimmed back the very broad commerce powers previous courts had granted to congress. No one knows how they will address the question on the health care mandate. No one.

But based on previous decisions by this court expect a very narrow ruling, not a sweeping ruling with wide ramifications for the future.

Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday will be a fascinating three days for we court watchers.

getalife

March 24th, 2012
2:30 pm

kay,

I am against this mandate to buy corporate crap and the one in Floriida to pee in a cup.

Thulsa Doom

March 24th, 2012
2:31 pm

Yep. It’ll be a great 3 days of oral arguments. Anyway, Doomy out the rest of the day to enjoy a mighty fine day outside.

Mr. Snarky

March 24th, 2012
2:32 pm

Wow. This story shows that the republicans are full of crap as usual. We knew that already, but thanks for the reminder.

Don't Forget

March 24th, 2012
2:34 pm

From the album of the same name, seems apropos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XscthFPryDw

Jm

March 24th, 2012
2:34 pm

Mr snarky is a very independent thinker….

Jm

March 24th, 2012
2:43 pm

The democrat purveyors of fear never rest

Vice President Joe Biden’s second speech on the campaign trail Friday was as textbook as they come: He headed to south Florida to warn a crowd of senior citizens Florida that the Republican candidates will dismantle Medicare and Social Security.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/74406.html#ixzz1q3rKVqIl

Jm

March 24th, 2012
2:46 pm

“who do you believe is genuinely committed to permitting the dignity of people in terms of their health care and their basic ability to live?”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/74406.html#ixzz1q3s305Br

No one lives forever Joe

getalife

March 24th, 2012
2:48 pm

All I can say is if the gop party attacked you, stand up for yourself and vote against the gop party.

Seniors, Latinos, gay, women, etc… can end the radical right.

Jm

March 24th, 2012
2:58 pm

Oscar

March 24th, 2012
3:14 pm

Jm

_______

We will grow our way out of it, the same way we did after WWII when our debt as a per cent was much higher. And we will have some inflation to devalue the dollar. That will increase our exports, increase our manufacturing base, and decrease our imports.
The worst thing we could do is elect a GOP president and start an austarity program. That would be much worse than what Obama proposes as our course.

Brosephus™

March 24th, 2012
3:14 pm

I wish somebody would explain to me why, if everybody in the nation is required to be covered by health insurance, we would still need Medicaid.

This is what I see happening. The Democratic Party initially pushed for a single payer system. The GOP said no. The Democratic Party then went to the individual mandate, which was an original GOP position. The GOP said no. The individual mandate passed anyway. Conservative organizations/people sued. There are very few outcomes to this entire deal now. By forcing the ruling on the individual mandate, the GOP has led us towards one of two results from what I see. There could be other choices, but these are the two basic directions I see.

1. We keep the status quo and we (individuals AND providers) continue to get financially molested by the insurance providers. No way to force the coverage of high risk individuals at affordable costs. No way to stop insurance providers for dropping coverage on people.

2. We go to a single payer system for coverage to end the runaway cost increases. Government run takes the profit motive AND outrageous pay and benefit packages and re-directs funds towards the actual care and treatment of patients. Single payer also could be used to do away with medicaid and medicare for citizens and residents as well since they would be covered by the single payer system.

If the court rules in favor of the mandate, then we’ll slowly inch towards a single payer system anyway.

I could be wrong, but that’s the way I see things.

Brosephus™

March 24th, 2012
3:17 pm

Upon taking control of the U.S. House in 2010, Republicans announced that every bill proposed or passed in that chamber would be required to cite specific provisions of the U.S. Constitution that authorize Congress to take such action.

[...]

Recognizing the potential embarrassment, not to mention the bad timing, U.S. Rep. Rob Woodall of Georgia this week introduced an amendment that stripped H.R. 5 of the language cited above. His amendment was approved just before the bill went onto final passage. Now, the bill contains no constitutional justification for imposing federal limits on state malpractice awards.

In other words, Rep Woodall (R-GA) thinks it’s better to break his word with voters as opposed to displaying GOP hypocrisy in regards to regulating interstate commerce. That’s just the way politicians roll. Given the opportunity, I’m sure there’s 434 others in the House that would do the same thing to save political face.

Mary Elizabeth

March 24th, 2012
3:18 pm

I hope that whether you are a Conservative, Independent or Liberal, you will take a few minutes to read Paul Krugman’s editorial regarding Obamacare’s advantages, especialy to those who might “fall through the cracks,” and anyone who has a job might be in that position, at some point in time. Krugman gives a succinct, easy to understand, extraction of the essence of Obamacare.

Krugman’s editorial in the NY Times is, also, published in today’s AJC under the title, “Why Obama’s health care overhaul must survive.” Its title in the 3/18/12 NY Times was, “Hurray for Health Reform.” Here is the link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/opinion/krugman-hurray-for-health-reform.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Below is an excerpt of the final three paragraphs of Krugman’s editorial:
—————————————————————————————–

“Because the truth does not, sad to say, always prevail, there is a real chance that these lies will succeed in killing health reform before it really gets started. And that would be an immense tragedy for America, because this health reform is coming just in time.

As I said, the reform is mainly aimed at Americans who fall through the cracks in our current system — an important goal in its own right. But what makes reform truly urgent is the fact that the cracks are rapidly getting wider, because fewer and fewer jobs come with health benefits; employment-based coverage actually declined even during the ‘Bush boom’ of 2003 to 2007, and has plunged since.

What this means is that the Affordable Care Act is the only thing protecting us from an imminent surge in the number of Americans who can’t afford essential care. So this reform had better survive — because if it doesn’t, many Americans who need health care won’t.”
———————————————————————————————–

Jm

March 24th, 2012
3:19 pm

Oscar

No we won’t

In the last 200 years only one country in our position has outgrown their debt

All the others defaulted or went down the hyperinflation route

Jm

March 24th, 2012
3:22 pm

Bro insurance companies aren’t screwing people. Their profit margins aren’t huge

Mary Elizabeth, krugman is a hack

0311/8541/5811/1811

March 24th, 2012
3:30 pm

I wonder if religious freedom under the Constitution will approve of this ??

Headline: “Book tells Muslim men how to beat and control their wives”

“In terms of physical punishment, the book advises that a husband may scold her, “beat by hand or stick,” withhold money from her or “pull (her) by the ears,” but should “refrain from beating her excessively.”

But then there is always this: “Later, its author advises that “the husband should treat the wife with kindness and love, even if she tends to be stupid and slow sometimes.”

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/23/book-tells-muslim-men-how-to-beat-and-control-their-wives

Oscar

March 24th, 2012
3:30 pm

Jm
___

We will have inflation but it won’t be anything approaching twenty per cent. All countries run a national debt and keep going. We will have the same experience.
Hyperinflation is the same thing as a defualt, you repay with what amounts to pennies on the dollar. Greece can’t do that becuase they are tied to the Euro and can’t print their own money. So that have to default.

Brosephus™

March 24th, 2012
3:31 pm

Bro insurance companies aren’t screwing people.

Tell that to people who’ve had their coverage dropped or severly cut back to avoid payment. They basically control the entire system because they control pricing on both sides of the equation.

Doggone/GA

March 24th, 2012
3:31 pm

“I don’t speak in absolutes like you doggone”

“Mr snarky is a very independent thinker”
“The democrat purveyors of fear never rest”
“America on the precipice”
“Bro insurance companies aren’t screwing people. Their profit margins aren’t huge”
“Mary Elizabeth, krugman is a hack”

Oscar

March 24th, 2012
3:33 pm

311/8541/5811/1811

———-

Did you ever read the bible. l It says basically the same thing. And the Koran is based on the bible, or the Book as it refers to the bible. Most Christians and Jews have abandoned that practice, but not all. And most Moslems have also abandoned the paractice. What’s in those books written hundreds of years ago is not relavent or followed now.

larry

March 24th, 2012
3:33 pm

Bro insurance companies aren’t screwing people.

Nah, they werent dropping people when they get sick or they werent excluding people from getting insurance for pre-existing conditions . Nah , they werent doing that.

oy

Oscar

March 24th, 2012
3:35 pm

Bro insurance companies aren’t screwing people.

__________

When insuarnace companies refuse to insure people with pre-existing condidtions, or drop people from coverage when they get sick, they are screwing people. They also decide on what medicinces or treatements they will pay for, and the doctors and hospitals follow thier direction. Thinking otherwise is simply living in ignorance or denial.

Doggone/GA

March 24th, 2012
3:37 pm

“Thinking otherwise is simply living in ignorance or denial”

Ummmmm….

Brosephus™

March 24th, 2012
3:37 pm

Doggone

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

With such glaring evidence, either jm is Rep Woodall or he’s a close relative.

Doggone/GA

March 24th, 2012
3:40 pm

“With such glaring evidence, either jm is Rep Woodall or he’s a close relative.”

I know, I about fell out of my chair laughing when that statement popped up. And I needed a good laugh, it’s not been a good couple of days.

0311/8541/5811/1811

March 24th, 2012
3:43 pm

“A compulsory contract is an oxymoron ………. ” George Will

“Obamacare is the first time Congress has used its power to regulate commerce to produce a law “from which there is no escape.” Institute for Justice

“And “coercing commercial transactions” — compelling individuals to sign contracts with insurance companies — “is antithetical to the foundational principle of mutual assent that permeated the common law of contracts at the time of the founding and continues to do so today.” Institute for Justice

0311/8541/5811/1811

March 24th, 2012
3:46 pm

Oscar:

“And most Moslems have also abandoned the paractice”

Surely (and don’t call me Shirley) you have heard of Sharia Law which most if not all Islamic countries and is slowing trying to make inroads here.

Jm

March 24th, 2012
3:47 pm

Apparently doggone doesn’t know the meaning of the phrase “speaking in absolutes”

Oscar

March 24th, 2012
3:51 pm

0311/8541/5811/1811
______

I am aware of that, but it does not mean that the majority of muslims beat their wives with sticks or pull their ears.

0311/8541/5811/1811

March 24th, 2012
3:51 pm

Oscar:

You are correct. It’s probably worse.

getalife

March 24th, 2012
3:52 pm

“Thinking otherwise is simply living in ignorance or denial.”

La la land.

Oscar

March 24th, 2012
3:57 pm

getalife

______

So what’s your point. You deny that the insurance companies are screwing people and controlling mediical care. If so, you need an education.

getalife

March 24th, 2012
4:02 pm

Oscar,

No, I agree with your point.

There are some good things in ObamaCare like you said.

All my doctors switched to electronic medical records and that is good too.

Oscar

March 24th, 2012
4:05 pm

I am not in favor of the mandates. One state, either I believe Maine or Vermont has done away with the pre-existing clause without mandating everyone to buy insurance, and it’s working well. The argument that the mandates are necessary for the system to work I just don’t see as a valid argument.

DebbieDoRight - A Do Right Woman

March 24th, 2012
4:06 pm

0311/8541/5811/1811

March 24th, 2012
4:08 pm

O.K. You guys asked for it again !

“If in the opinion of the People, the distribution or modification of the Constitutional powers be in any particular wrong, let it be corrected by an amendment in the way which the Constitution designates. But let there be no change by usurpation; for though this, in one instance, may be the instrument of good, it is the customary weapon by which free governments are destroyed.” George Washington

Oscar

March 24th, 2012
4:19 pm

1/8541/5811/1811

________

I don’t know of anyone who disagrees with George on that. Except for people in South Carolina, and maybe Alabama and Mississippi and Georgia where there have been bills on nullification introduced by members of the GOP.

0311/8541/5811/1811

March 24th, 2012
4:31 pm

Oscar:

But that’s what we are trying to do ……….. even if it could be argued it was for “Good”. We are cheapening and prostituting the Constitution for political reasons. While the liberals like this one they may not like the next one and then it spins out of control !

P.S. There are some northwestern states I believe involved in that movement also ……….. “States Rights”.

getalife

March 24th, 2012
4:33 pm

cons swear by our Constitution then fight to change it.

Mr_B

March 24th, 2012
4:33 pm

Oscar: The mandates are there to ensure that those on the low-risk end of the health spectrum actually participate.This makes it possible for private insurers to provide coverage without excluding pre-existing conditions and to extend coverage in areas in which they normally would not, such as older children. They are only necessary because we didn’t adopt a single-payer system. The fact that we maintained a private, for-profit system also meant that Medicare and Medicaid had to remain pretty much unchanged in the ACA.

0311/8541/5811/1811

March 24th, 2012
4:35 pm

Oscar:

Arizona comes to mind also and then there is this. It’s not just a “Southern thing” anymore !

“In 2009-2010 thirty eight states have introduced resolutions to reaffirm the principles of sovereignty under the Constitution and the 10th Amendment; Nine states have passed the resolutions. These non-binding resolutions, often called “state sovereignty resolutions” do not carry the force of law. Instead, they are intended to be a statement to demand that the federal government halt its practices of assuming powers and imposing mandates upon the states for purposes not enumerated by the Constitution.[6]”

38 states Oscar ……….. this has little to do with left or right !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States‘_rights

0311/8541/5811/1811

March 24th, 2012
4:35 pm

getalife :

and ……………………… you would be correct !

It’s called an Amendment.

Doggone/GA

March 24th, 2012
4:38 pm

“cons swear by our Constitution then fight to change it”

They’re good at ignoring the parts they don’t like.

0311/8541/5811/1811

March 24th, 2012
4:39 pm

0311/8541/5811/1811

March 24th, 2012
4:40 pm

Doggone/GA:

But ………………….. only if upheld by the Supreme Court.

Mr_B

March 24th, 2012
4:41 pm

“Nine states have passed the resolutions.’ Which of these nine passed with bi-partisan support?

Doggone/GA

March 24th, 2012
4:42 pm

“only if upheld by the Supreme Court”

As best I can tell it doesn’t matter…they’re still good at ignoring the parts they don’g like. Upheld or not.

Oscar

March 24th, 2012
4:43 pm

The fact that we maintained a private, for-profit system also meant that Medicare and Medicaid had to remain pretty much unchanged in the ACA.

_______

I understand the argument. The insurance industry artiulated it very well, and spoke also with the use of the checkbook in future campaign contributions to get the mandates in the insuance bill. and it’s there. Now we will see what the Supreme Court thinks about it.

0311/8541/5811/1811

March 24th, 2012
4:44 pm

Mr_B:

I don’t know but it doesn’t matter. We are a democratic republic. That’s why a bill can pass in the Senate by a vote of 51 to 49. I hope you don’t have an issue with that ?

Probably a few and certainly several of the 38.