The heartlessness of Ga. anti-abortion bill
NOTE: This is published as the electronic version of today’s AJC column. Portions of this post have appeared earlier on this blog.
Imagine being a happily pregnant couple, 20 weeks along, when things go tragically amiss. Tests reveal that if carried to term, your child will be born without a skull, or perhaps without functioning lungs, which means that upon birth it will begin to die immediately of asphyxiation, with no hope of saving it.
Do you continue the pregnancy, knowing that the child has no chance of survival and that in many cases its “life” will at best consist of a few short hours of intense agony? Or do you end the pregnancy in the best interests of all involved, including that of the doomed fetus?
Some parents, drawing upon their faith and moral precepts, will continue the pregnancy to its tragic end. Others, drawing on their own equally sincere principles, will intervene. It is not a choice that any of us would want to make, and under House Bill 954, approved this week by a House committee, we would not have to. Because if the bill passes, as seems likely, Georgia legislators will have made that decision for every mother in the state.
Under the bill, the legal window in which abortions can be performed in Georgia would shrink from 26 to 20 weeks. Supporters justify the change by claiming that after 20 weeks, fetuses are capable of feeling pain and thus need to be protected, regardless of viability.
There are two major problems here:
1. That legislative threshold of 20 weeks contradicts the overwhelming consensus of the scientific and medical community, which holds that as a fetus develops, the neural connections needed to feel pain do not occur until 28 or 29 weeks. The pain argument is being used to advance an agenda, not to respond to science.
2. The change will do nothing to affect the vast majority of abortions, which is the real target of its sponsors. According to the Guttmacher Institute, 89 percent of abortions are performed in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, long before the proposed law would take effect.
Many of the small fraction of abortions that occur after the proposed 20-week deadline involve what are called “medically futile pregnancies” such as those described above.
As a prominent Atlanta obstetrician told me this week, consider a woman who at 20 weeks discovers that her fetus suffers from anencephaly, which means it’s missing part of its head. The goal of his practice is to see high-risk pregnancies through to a healthy, successful live birth, but sometimes that just isn’t possible.
“The fetus has no skull,” he explained. “I don’t think many of us walk around without a skull. It is not going to survive no matter what you do. We tell the mother what we found, and we let her go through full counseling, grief counseling. And at the end of that, we give her the option of carrying that pregnancy or not.”
Under HB 954, that option would no longer be available.
That fetus will be carried to full term, under the false excuse of sparing it pain, and the result will be a baby “condemned to writhe in agony” as it dies shortly after birth.
(As a condition of the interview, the doctor asked not to be named. He has been advised not to speak publicly out of fear for his personal safety and threats of economic boycott.)
The bill is also certain to force abortions that otherwise will not have occurred, he said.
“I saw a couple at 21 or 22 weeks. They didn’t have health insurance until then because he was transferring jobs, so they hadn’t had the screening. When they came to see me, they were distraught. The fetus had a heart defect, what turned out to have been a fixable heart defect. But we didn’t know that for sure. We had to go through amniocentesis, which takes a week. That brings us up to 22 and a half weeks. Then we had to counsel this family and convince them that this heart defect was fixable. Because we had the time, we were able to walk them through the process and they didn’t terminate.
“If I had seen them at 19 weeks and four days, and this new law gave them just three days to decide, they would have terminated that pregnancy. We told the Legislature that, but these legislators think that’s not going to happen.
“It’s going to happen.”
In more than five hours of hearings this month, legislators have been made aware of these consequences, but they made no substantive changes to the bill.
“From my standpoint, if they wanted to cut off elective terminations — the woman who just decides at 22 weeks, I don’t want this baby — I could live with that,” the doctor told me. “But let the woman who has a complication make rational decisions.”
– Jay Bookman
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709 comments Add your comment
Paul
February 29th, 2012
6:37 pm
afternoon, Thulsa
“You don’t want to answer the central question about whether abortion is or isn’t the killing of a human life. ”
So far, by my count, only one of the “life begins at conception” group on this blog is willing to say “no abortion ever.”
ALL the rest are silent or are for abortion in some circumstances.
So all this back and forth is really pointless, as most of the ‘abortion is killing babies and is murder” group will, when pressed to actually take a stand, allow killing and murdering babies under circumstances of their choosing.
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
6:37 pm
Mick
February 29th, 2012
6:34 pm
I have to agree with bruno, it is human life every step of the way.
_____________________________________
Amen. Did you see the embryo I posted? It was 66 days old. Any question in YOUR mind what it was?
Mick
February 29th, 2012
6:38 pm
paul
Sink has trouble seeing the forest because of the trees…
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
6:38 pm
“So do you want the US to forcibly take over the foreign oil companies that own the oil or should we just go invade their home countries and whip their asses into submission?”
No.
How did you draw that conclusion?
Crack is not a good thing, dude…..
Keep Up--Te gusta losing woofinpoofs?
February 29th, 2012
6:38 pm
Recon — yep, nuanced. Sorry. I know that does not work well for the Republican bumper sticker workshop. Social norms and mores change. Some of the reasoning used in Roe v Wade may be questioned today with new science, norms and technology. However, if you are genuinely concerned with “life” then let’s talk about the full range and quality of life including the death penalty and torture. These are not stand-alone issues even if they make your brain hurt because they are complicated.
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
6:38 pm
“Point blank, if an embryo isn’t “human”, what is it??”
You’ve already answered that: it’s an embryo
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
6:40 pm
“You don’t want to answer the central question about whether abortion is or isn’t the killing of a human life.”
I don’t have a problem answering that: it’s the ending of an embryonic or even foetal life. It is not the ending of a SEPARATE life.
josef
February 29th, 2012
6:40 pm
Mick
And being ideologically blind as a bat doesn’t do much for his perspective…
AmVet - Son of a union thug
February 29th, 2012
6:41 pm
Doom, sure, their whole thing was a straight ripoff from A Hard Day’s Night.
But who really cared?
The kids desperately wanted more musical zaniness and those guys were IT!
Hell, an unknown Jimi Hendrix opened for them!!
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/jimi-hendrix-drops-out-as-opening-act-for-the-monkees
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUdIKdRuYc4
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
6:42 pm
Yo Sinkwhich; Maybe you can ALSO tell me how gas is going to be cheaper for US if a foreign Country, Canada, builds a pipeline to the Gulf Coast where they can put their oil directly on FOREIGN OWNED SHIPS to sail off to the foreign Countries which BOUGHT the oil.
Help a brother out here, because all I see is the US getting corn holed by the rich republicans again as they fill their pockets with foreign money and break it off in the rest of us littel people……..
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
6:42 pm
“Refine WHERE dummy? Our refining places are at capacity………….”
Uh, build some more?
Fred, dude, please seek help. You don’t vote, do you? No wonder O’bozo won….
Peadawg
February 29th, 2012
6:43 pm
” It is not the ending of a SEPARATE life.” – If you’re a woman that is.
A man can be charged with homicide of an unborn baby.
So, it either is a separate life or it isn’t…
Paul
February 29th, 2012
6:44 pm
Sinkwich
“Look, Paul, I can’t believe you’re this dense, but then again you loves you a lot of O’bozo.
Read slowly: drill and refine oil here, then we don’t have to worry about the Mideast.”
If that’s all it takes, then why on earth doesn’t the senior leadership at the Pentagon advocate for that instead of biofuels and other technologies?
Because they know producing more here without heavy government control of the industry to direct product will not achieve the desired results.
So are you saying you’re for more drilling here, AND government control of product to distribute it to government entities at increased taxpayer cost?
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
6:45 pm
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
6:38 pm
“So do you want the US to forcibly take over the foreign oil companies that own the oil or should we just go invade their home countries and whip their asses into submission?”
No.
How did you draw that conclusion?
Crack is not a good thing, dude…..
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No it’s not. I doubt you are on it though, I just think you are this mentally challenged. Name me the American Oil Company that is trying to drill here/ The American Oil Company that is trying to refine here. The American Oil cpompany that is trying to SELL here.
Oh wait, you can’t……..
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
6:45 pm
“A man can be charged with homicide of an unborn baby”
That is a societal judgement, not a biological one.
Orange12
February 29th, 2012
6:46 pm
TBS,
Not sure of the date the last budget was changed on this, think it was 1995 but take that with a grain of salt. Here is a copy and paste of the guts of the story:
Significantly, the plan calls for increases between 30 percent to 78 percent in Tricare annual premiums for the first year. After that, the plan will impose five-year increases ranging from 94 percent to 345 percent—more than 3 times current levels.
You can also google “Retired Military Health Care Cuts”.
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
6:47 pm
Paul,
You got one of those links on algae based fuels. Interesting stuff that I would like to read if you have it saved. Personally I would like to see things like algae explored to the fullest if it holds any realistic promise but in the short term it looks to me like we should go more towards natural gas in the interim. I still believe we will be stuck on fossil fuels for awhile though.
Billybob
February 29th, 2012
6:47 pm
fred…..a couple more like 6:42 and please tell ‘elizabeth that i’m coming to join her hunny’……your radical leftist liberal leaders in the democrat party have got you twisted yo’…..
Mick
February 29th, 2012
6:48 pm
josef
That’s insulting to bats, at least they have radar, sink just circles the drain…
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
6:48 pm
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
6:42 pm
“Refine WHERE dummy? Our refining places are at capacity………….”
Uh, build some more?
Fred, dude, please seek help. You don’t vote, do you? No wonder O’bozo won….
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You really aren’t that bright are you? Build them where? Where ate the American companies screaming to build oil refineries? oh wait, THEY AREN’T. That’s because our demand is down in this Country. The demand is in China where the FOREIGN OWNED OIL COMPANIES ARE SELLING IT FOR HIGH PRICES YOU JACKASS.
And I need help? Yeah I need help getting my garden in for sure. You on the other hand need help pulling your head out of your ass.
They BOTH suck
February 29th, 2012
6:49 pm
Sinkwich
Pretty good article on oil
http://news.yahoo.com/5-myths-gas-prices-big-oil-presidency-183000805.html
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
6:50 pm
“If that’s all it takes, then why on earth doesn’t the senior leadership at the Pentagon advocate for that instead of biofuels and other technologies?”
Because O’bozo tells them not to.
“Because they know producing more here without heavy government control of the industry to direct product will not achieve the desired results.”
No they don’t.
“So are you saying you’re for more drilling here, AND government control of product to distribute it to government entities at increased taxpayer cost?”
Yep, but nope after everything following that obnoxious “AND.”
Billybob
February 29th, 2012
6:50 pm
did obama lie about the cost of obamacare on purpose to sell it, or is he just absolutely and completely economically illiterate……either way it ain’t good……….libs, were obama’s cost projections on obamacare just an honest mistake?
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
6:51 pm
“I don’t have a problem answering that: it’s the ending of an embryonic or even foetal life”
So is an embryonic or fetal life a human life? Yes or No.
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
6:52 pm
Don’t waste your time TBS. “Gas prices” are one of the three talking points as set forth by the RNC to FOX news and the radio show hosts so they are pounding that lie. F. Sinkwhich is a good little paid puppet so he’s parroting it. He won’t even read your link, it’s not on his script.
Mick
February 29th, 2012
6:53 pm
fred
They sure know how to “pound it”.
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
6:53 pm
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
6:45 pm
“A man can be charged with homicide of an unborn baby”
That is a societal judgement, not a biological one.
The biological judgment is that life begins at the point of conception. There’s no arguing that. If anyone feels different then they are making one of them ahem “societal judgments”.
Paul
February 29th, 2012
6:54 pm
Thulsa
I just Googled “department of defense biofuels’ or ‘department of defense alternate fuels’ and got all sorts of hits. Not repeats – different articles and programs. Also one time looked at DARPA alternate fuels – thats the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. They fund billions in research programs. Some never pan out. Thank heavens Republicans don’t want to kill that in their post-Solyndra frenzy. (I just couldn’t resist).
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
6:55 pm
“And I need help? Yeah I need help getting my garden in for sure. You on the other hand need help pulling your head out of your ass.”
Thanks for the kind words, Fred.
As to why we aren’t constructing more refineries here in the good ol’ USA, please see EPA regs, Dept of Energy BS, eco
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
6:55 pm
“So is an embryonic or fetal life a human life? Yes or No”
No, it is a symbiotic life…but it is not yet human
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
6:55 pm
Mick
February 29th, 2012
6:53 pm
fred
They sure know how to “pound it”.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yeah they do. Dammit. I wanted SOMEONE to comment on my perfect little pony picture… Bruno won’t and you didn’t………
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
6:55 pm
weenie lawyers, etc.
TaxPayer
February 29th, 2012
6:56 pm
So, the Republicans are good with forcing women to carry to term a fetus that has no arms or legs or eyes or organs outside the body or no skull or no brain or any other defect that might cause it to suffer untold pain both before and after birth, etc. By the way, I’ve yet to see any scientific evidence confirming that Republicans are human. They are simply self-centered, politically motivated, greedy hypocrites, and apparently quite proud of it.
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
6:56 pm
Let me ask you a question in return: when you have a fried egg for breakfast, are you eating an egg or a chicken?
Billybob
February 29th, 2012
6:56 pm
fred,
is it W’s fault fred…..b/c i remember the lib media screaming and blaming bush during high gas prices while today i hear it’s out of obama’s control………. and many in the biased lib media complex portray it as a good thing…….wanna’ cracker?
Keep Up--Te gusta losing woofinpoofs?
February 29th, 2012
6:56 pm
Well I am certain that some of the conned will be celebrating that parts of the Keystone pipeline are in progress now….. the part from OK to the Gulf. No federal approval required because no border crossing. That certain will go a long way to help oil prices down as they take the current “oil glut” in the midwest and ship it to foreign countries. I mean we all know that it is supply and demand.
Problem solved right?
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
6:56 pm
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
6:55 pm
“And I need help? Yeah I need help getting my garden in for sure. You on the other hand need help pulling your head out of your ass.”
Thanks for the kind words, Fred.
As to why we aren’t constructing more refineries here in the good ol’ USA, please see EPA regs, Dept of Energy BS, eco
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Really? You are REALLY buying that BS you posted? They aren’t building more refineries because they are making more money by NOT building them dummy.
Just damn.
AmVet - Son of a union thug
February 29th, 2012
6:57 pm
12, I can understand why you are not sourcing that cut and paste.
It is once again being trotted out all over the rabid rightie sites that are recycling a non-story from last September. And it was not even a story then.
There is NOTHING current or relevant about it that I could find.
Tempest in a teapot without a scintilla of credibility…
Paul
February 29th, 2012
6:57 pm
Sinkwich
“Because Obama tells them not to.”
So we now have another blogger who thinks senior military leaders are derelict in their duty to give the National Command Authority their unbiased advice.
So good to know you think so highly of the men and women leading our military, Sinkwich.
Your doubling down in defense of your ideology knows no bounds.
So you’re for more drilling so more oil can be shipped overseas, eh?
Great national security plan you got there.
Peadawg
February 29th, 2012
6:57 pm
“but it is not yet human”
Then we need to seriously reconsider charging men w/ double homicide if they kill a pregnant woman. If it’s not human, how can it be homicide?
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
6:59 pm
Billybob
February 29th, 2012
6:56 pm
fred,
is it W’s fault fred…..b/c i remember the lib media screaming and blaming bush during high gas prices while today i hear it’s out of obama’s control………. and many in the biased lib media complex portray it as a good thing…….wanna’ cracker?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Oh horse crap. Many of the die hard leftists here have already posted that they were dead assed wrong on blaming Bush on gas prices. YOU know they were wrong. Sinkwhich knows they were wrong. So why are you hypocrites blaming Obama? you KNOW you are wrong about that too which makes you nothing more than cheap tawdry liars now. Prostitutes. I’ll bet your mommies are proud.
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
6:59 pm
“The biological judgment is that life begins at the point of conception. ”
And have *I* ever said otherwise?
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
6:59 pm
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
6:55 pm
“So is an embryonic or fetal life a human life? Yes or No”
No, it is a symbiotic life…but it is not yet human
Aaaaah. The semantics game again. I will then defer to Bruno’s previous answer. No only are you wrong according to biology but that’s just plain stupid.
They BOTH suck
February 29th, 2012
7:01 pm
Sinkwich
While environmental issues do play a huge part, why do you not mention that oil companies have elected to close numerous refineries in the last 25 yrs due to obsolescence and mergers….
No one made them close those refineries, they did because it made good business sense to them………. Too much to upgrade or reduce capacity to assist in stabilizing or increasing prices………..
Look it up…………. Turn off the talking points for 5 minutes.. I have noted environment, now you see if it is one sides as you cry about
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
7:01 pm
“Then we need to seriously reconsider charging men w/ double homicide if they kill a pregnant woman. If it’s not human, how can it be homicide?”
You already know my opinion of laws like that. If you want them changed, take it up with the MEN who passed and signed them. I won’t object.
TaxPayer
February 29th, 2012
7:01 pm
Women best make sure of what they are delivering before twenty weeks thanks to Republicans and their zeal for right to life.
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
7:02 pm
Man did I miss the hell out of the time it would take these beets to roast for this borscht. My girls are about to kill me and I can’t blame them. They are HUNGRY……………
Damn I hate missing cooking times.
They BOTH suck
February 29th, 2012
7:03 pm
Billybob
The blame game is not a one way street
Just as the left cried about Bush, the right is crying about Obama…..
Let’s be “fair and balanced” like Fox
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
7:03 pm
“but that’s just plain stupid.”
End of conversation. When all you can do is get personal, you lost…like it or not.
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
7:04 pm
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
6:59 pm
“The biological judgment is that life begins at the point of conception. ”
And have *I* ever said otherwise?
You just said its a symbiotic life and that its not human life. If this symbiotic life inside of a human is not human life itself than what is it? Keep squirming doggone. I’m just trying to figure out how you’re going to play semantics games or mince words or what kind of nonsense you’ll come up with next.
Peadawg
February 29th, 2012
7:04 pm
” If you want them changed, take it up with the MEN who passed and signed them.”
And until it’s changed, a fetus is a human…according to law. And women should should be charged the same thing if they have an abortion.
Either it’s homicide, or it’s not. Can’t have it both ways.
Orange12
February 29th, 2012
7:05 pm
Paul
“As well they should. People receiving pensions equal to the average household income up to several times the average household income can well afford more than $260 a year for health insurance.”
Different ballgame Paul. Put yourself in my place. With increases like this comeing, in what can be seen as forcing MilVetRet to join ACA, would you vote for this guy? I think not. Anyone with military experience will understand me, especially combat vets.
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
7:05 pm
“Really? You are REALLY buying that BS you posted?”
It’s not BS. O’bozo has declared war on the energy sector of our economy, unless of course a company eschews real solutions to our energy problem like Solyndra.
You buy a POS Volt yet, Fred?
I’m paying you $7,500 to do so you know…
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
7:05 pm
Taxpayer@ 7:01: I started to make a “funny comment” and link the baby with it’s brain literally coming out of it’s ass from the link you provided, but I just couldn’t find anything funny about it……..
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
7:05 pm
Doggone,
Well I guess I did give you an out by stating the obvious- that your point was just plain stupid. Sorry but it is what it is and I think you’ve been cornered enough to realize yourself just how pathetically weak and absurd your argument is. Nothing new there.
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
7:07 pm
“life begins at the point of conception”
Where in that statement does it designate HUMAN life? Symbiotic life, foetal life…LIFE begins at conception. Humanity does not.
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
7:07 pm
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
7:05 pm
“Really? You are REALLY buying that BS you posted?”
It’s not BS. O’bozo has declared war on the energy sector of our economy, unless of course a company eschews real solutions to our energy problem like Solyndra.
You buy a POS Volt yet, Fred?
I’m paying you $7,500 to do so you know…
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You have YET to offer a legitimate answer to a single point I have made. It’s not because you didn’t understand anything i said, it’s because you are a liar and you know it, but there is a limit to your hypocrisy.
No there isn’t your hypocrisy and lies have no boundaries………
Keep Up--Te gusta losing woofinpoofs?
February 29th, 2012
7:07 pm
Either it’s homicide, or it’s not. Can’t have it both ways
Well now we are going to have to prosecute executioners and soldiers….. I mean we have an absolute. Life is life, no killing no exceptions. These absolutes always work well…. ask the kids who have a key chain with a 1/4″ blade and nails clippers in an “absolute no weapons” school zone.
Orange12
February 29th, 2012
7:09 pm
amvet@6:57
If you don’t like it don’t read it.
Matti
February 29th, 2012
7:10 pm
I spent all day at the Capitol. OH. MY. GOD. What the heck is WRONG with this “smaller gubmint” crowd? Seriously!! My mind is REELING, and my hands are still shaking!
People were in tears! People who actually have souls, that is. NOT the fascists trying to score points with their churchy base by ramming this horrible bill up the birth canals of the women of this state! FYI: Even the churchy base folks who understand what this bill means are against it! Well, the ones who actually have souls, that is.
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
7:10 pm
“No one made them close those refineries”
Wrong, Government did.
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
7:10 pm
“Either it’s homicide, or it’s not. Can’t have it both ways”
and I haven’t asked to have it both ways. Can I make it any damn clearer? I AGREE WITH YOU, IT SHOULD NOT BE THAT WAY.
Take it up with the MEN who passed and signed those damn laws. *I* can’t do anything about it.
Billybob
February 29th, 2012
7:10 pm
an unfinished pipeline is absolutely how you bring down gas prices and solve the problem right?……….fishnabarrel…….love to see libs then attack evil oil companies……….obama never wants to let a good crisis go to waste, real or made-up…….leftists need strawman arguments and crisis to forward their agenda which we see in full force currently and we see it trailing from obama since he stepped up on the public scene…. after the rep process is over the election will be about obama and he and the media can’t run or hide from his record his words or his actions………..can’t wait
Peadawg
February 29th, 2012
7:11 pm
“executioners and soldiers”
Huh? Executioners and soldiers are having abortions? Talking about distractions….
They BOTH suck
February 29th, 2012
7:11 pm
Sinkwich
You are more than welcome to utilize Google, Yahoo or Bing to look up closed US refineries
Either one will provide you exactly what I posted………..
All I am saying is step off your high horse and shelf the talking points for 5 minutes to see that it isn’t just Obama and BIG GOVERNMENT keeping you away from your $2.25/gl gas
Keep Up--Te gusta losing woofinpoofs?
February 29th, 2012
7:12 pm
Matti, I feel for you. Sometimes you have to wonder if ramming your head into a concrete wall would not be a more sensible option.
Keep Up--Te gusta losing woofinpoofs?
February 29th, 2012
7:13 pm
Pea, sorry punkin that you can’t comprehend that life is life does not apply only to fetuses.
Peadawg
February 29th, 2012
7:13 pm
“*I* can’t do anything about it.”
You could start calling your representatives for one thing. We all should.
Recon 0311 2533
February 29th, 2012
7:13 pm
“These are not stand-alone issues even if they make your brain hurt because they are complicated.”
Keep, doesn’t make my brain hurt, although I suspect it might hurt your brain as you must work hard to camouflage an inability to make cogent arguments. Of course those are all separate issues that require separate arguments. Not in the mood to run rabbit holes if you want to debate this topic I’ll play but I don’t have much time.
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
7:13 pm
“just how pathetically weak and absurd your argument is.”
I can always tell when I’m successfully defending my opinons…the insults come out in force.
Peadawg
February 29th, 2012
7:15 pm
“Pea, sorry punkin that you can’t comprehend that life is life does not apply only to fetuses.” – Sorry you can’t comprehend that this topic is about abortion and you can’t stay on topic.
Kids table thata way—–>>>>
They BOTH suck
February 29th, 2012
7:15 pm
Sinkwich
From your beloved Fox
I hate to say it………. but you are one brainwashed dude
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2009/11/20/refineries-closing-weak-fuel-demand/
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Have a great night
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
7:15 pm
“You could start calling your representatives for one thing. We all should”
You’re the one who cares so vehemently, so go ahead. What’s stopping you?
Old Timer
February 29th, 2012
7:17 pm
Different ballgame Paul. Put yourself in my place. With increases like this comeing, in what can be seen as forcing MilVetRet to join ACA, would you vote for this guy? I think not. Anyone with military experience will understand me, especially combat vets.
It’s the old political game. Democrats know that active and retired military vets typically vote Republican, so the burden from a Democrat is going to fall on the vets by an upping of their share for health insurance. Republicans, on the other hand, know that federal employees typically vote Democrat, so Republicans are going to hack at federal employees by freezing their pay, upping their share of the contribution to a pension plan, etc.
It’s personal only when you and your family have to deal with the consequences of these political games.
Peadawg
February 29th, 2012
7:17 pm
“You’re the one who cares so vehemently, so go ahead. What’s stopping you?” – Ah, so you don’t care if it’s changed or not I see.
Or else why the poutrage remark?
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
7:18 pm
People were in tears! People who actually have souls, that is. NOT the fascists trying to score points with their churchy base by ramming this horrible bill up the birth canals of the women of this state! FYI: Even the churchy base folks who understand what this bill means are against it! Well, the ones who actually have souls, that is.
Fascist card!!!! Doomy saw it first.
Those awful “churchy” folks. Religious bigotry much?
People who actually have souls that is? Hmmm. I wonder if those people “with souls” have as many tears and as much compassion for the unborn?
The kook left and they poutrages. Always good theatre.
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
7:21 pm
“I can always tell when I’m successfully defending my opinons”
Only a true believer of the kook left actually thinks something called a “symbiotic life” is different from a human life. Semantics silliness run amok.
Recon 0311 2533
February 29th, 2012
7:21 pm
Doomy,
Little bit of left wing hypocrisy this topic has put on display. Jay may be wishing he picked something else.
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
7:22 pm
” Ah, so you don’t care if it’s changed or not I see.”
No, I don’t. Despite your assertion that woman can kill “unborn children” but “men can’t” – if *I* killed a pregnant woman, I TOO could be charged with killing that “unborn child”
And I said I wouldn’t object if it was changed, I didn’t say I’d fight for it. The charge comes when A PREGNANT WOMAN IS KILLED. Do I care if the charge is made that much stronger by charging the killer with also killing her foetus? No, I don’t.
Orange12
February 29th, 2012
7:22 pm
OT @7:17
Touche’
Matti
February 29th, 2012
7:22 pm
There was testimony most of the afternoon like Mr. Bookman describes. Many tests are not done until 18-20 weeks… IF the woman can get an appointment in that time window. Newsflash: If you live in Atlanta or the immediate suburbs, there are TONS of doctors! If you live in rural areas, not so much. There are barely enough doctors to care for healthy women having normal pregnancies. Some counties only have one or two OB/GYNs. The kind of doctor a woman experiencing a high-risk or complicated pregnancy, or one in which the the fetus tests positive for serious, life-threatening anomalies is even MORE rare! As in, there are FIVE of them in the State that practice below the gnat line. FIVE. “So sorry DISPOSABLE WOMAN if you can’t get to one of them in time.”
The twenty week cutoff is just part of it. The bill also reduces the definition of “medical emergency” that would save the mother’s life. Oh. My. God.
I cannot believe this these men who think they have the right to come between a woman and her doctor and the hardest decision she’ll ever have to make about the hardest thing she’ll ever have to endure — BECAUSE THEY WANT THE G**D**** CHURCH VOTE.
Christ on a stick. Time for a glass of red.
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
7:23 pm
“Where in that statement does it designate HUMAN life? Symbiotic life, foetal life…LIFE begins at conception. Humanity” does not.”
They do love they semantics games they do.
Mick
February 29th, 2012
7:23 pm
All things not being equal; the “kook” left at least has some sense of sanity while the “kook” right is hopelessly unhinged…
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
7:24 pm
“Semantics silliness run amok.”
How many times have *I* insulted YOU?
Keep Up--Te gusta losing woofinpoofs?
February 29th, 2012
7:24 pm
Suddenly this thread is about fetuses and not “life”. You can’t say “life begins at conception” in your absolute world and you can’t end life and then duck the questions about how often you justify ending life after leaving the womb. If “every sperm is sacred” then its emergence from the womb does not end discussion despite your opinions.
Peadawg
February 29th, 2012
7:25 pm
“The charge comes when A PREGNANT WOMAN IS KILLED.”
Not 100% true. Were here last week when I posted the case from Pennsylvania? The woman lived, baby was killed. Man was charge with homicide of an unborn baby.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 29th, 2012
7:26 pm
Wall Street bonus sheets upstairs….
Keep Up--Te gusta losing woofinpoofs?
February 29th, 2012
7:26 pm
Christ on a stick
Does Jeff Dunham have a new addition to his act?
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
7:26 pm
“The woman lived, baby was killed. Man was charge with homicide of an unborn baby.”
Take it up with the men who passed and signed the law.
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
7:28 pm
Hmmm. Sooooo life does begin at conception after all. But humanity doesn’t? What in the hell?
Me usually loves me liberal gobbledeegook in the morning with a fresh cup a coffee.
Sometimes dey just meltdown, goes nuts and starts spewing all kinds a nonsense. It just comes out projectile like Linda Blair in the excorsist.
Peadawg
February 29th, 2012
7:28 pm
“I didn’t say I’d fight for it.” – Not very consistent. You fight for a woman to be able to freely kill unborn baby but not a man/other woman to do it. Got it.
Jerk if you’re a guy, b*ch if you’re a woman. Can’t remember
.
Peadawg
February 29th, 2012
7:29 pm
“Take it up with the men who passed and signed the law.” – LOL is that your response to everything now?
AmVet - Son of a union thug
February 29th, 2012
7:30 pm
It ain’t about me liking it.
It’s a matter of you being six months behind the non-news curve. And gullible enough to think those twit websites aren’t.
Sheesh, you cons are the biggest rubes in this country
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
7:42 pm
Matti
February 29th, 2012
7:22 pm
I cannot believe this these men who think they have the right to come between a woman and her doctor and the hardest decision she’ll ever have to make about the hardest thing she’ll ever have to endure — BECAUSE THEY WANT THE G**D**** CHURCH VOTE.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No Matti, it’s even worse than that, it’s not “BECAUSE THEY WANT THE G**D**** CHURCH VOTE.” It’s because they think you are too stupid. You said it in the sentence there, “the hardest decision she’ll ever have to make about the hardest thing she’ll ever have to endure.”
These asshat don’t think it’s a hard decision for you They think that women (or girls) who get abortions have this thought process: Well I need to paint my nails, change my blouse, go pee, and get an abortion this hour…………..
They are completely clueless. It’s just like their “welfare broodmare” comments………..
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
7:55 pm
“All I am saying is step off your high horse and shelf the talking points for 5 minutes to see that it isn’t just Obama and BIG GOVERNMENT keeping you away from your $2.25/gl gas”
Yeah it is.
Just listen to O’bozo’s administration testify to congress.
They want gas prices to double from what they are today.
Anti-Americans, all.
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
8:02 pm
From your pathetic post:
“About 30 percent of gasoline demand is closely tied to employment, said Ann Kohler, an analyst with Caris & Co.
The nation’s unemployment rate is hovering above 10 percent for the first time in 26 years.”
O’bozo strategy: drive unemployment above 10%, then close refineries, give Solyndra-type loser companies billions of taxpayer dollars, claim nothing is his fault, then rely on sycophants like you to blame everyone else.
They BOTH suck
February 29th, 2012
8:26 pm
Sinkwich
And the crying kept on
Man you are a whiner when your narrow narrative is proven to be incorrect
I pointed out both-sides, it is your little mind that can’t get past talking points and BS rhetoric
But still have a great night………
Truth-O-Meter
February 29th, 2012
8:30 pm
I heard former Republican Sen. Alan Simpson in an interview on Sirius Radio today, and he said that no man, in his opinion, should even have a vote on issues of abortion. Too bad many of the voices of reason are no longer in Congress. Now Sen. Olympia Snowe has been driven out by the fringe of that party.
If I hear or read of one more conservative complaining of President Obama not listening to the people I will barf. He listens to his constituents just as conservatives would claim to be listening to theirs.
TGT
February 29th, 2012
8:38 pm
The fetus had a heart defect, what turned out to have been a fixable heart defect. But we didn’t know that for sure. We had to go through amniocentesis, which takes a week. That brings us up to 22 and a half weeks. Then we had to counsel this family and convince them that this heart defect was fixable. Because we had the time, we were able to walk them through the process and they didn’t terminate.
“If I had seen them at 19 weeks and four days, and this new law gave them just three days to decide, they would have terminated that pregnancy. We told the Legislature that, but these legislators think that’s not going to happen.
So one of the lib arguments against this bill is that parents who are inclined to kill their child in the womb if it is not clearly healthy, have to now make that decision in a smaller window of time?! What is the lib moral dilemma here?! It’s morally acceptable to kill the clearly unhealthy child over 20 weeks, but all of a sudden the libs are concerned that, perhaps, some children who otherwise might be “fixable,” are now going to be aborted?!!!
Billybob
February 29th, 2012
8:59 pm
i ask any democrat,
what does obama mean by fundamentally transforming this country?