The heartlessness of Ga. anti-abortion bill
NOTE: This is published as the electronic version of today’s AJC column. Portions of this post have appeared earlier on this blog.
Imagine being a happily pregnant couple, 20 weeks along, when things go tragically amiss. Tests reveal that if carried to term, your child will be born without a skull, or perhaps without functioning lungs, which means that upon birth it will begin to die immediately of asphyxiation, with no hope of saving it.
Do you continue the pregnancy, knowing that the child has no chance of survival and that in many cases its “life” will at best consist of a few short hours of intense agony? Or do you end the pregnancy in the best interests of all involved, including that of the doomed fetus?
Some parents, drawing upon their faith and moral precepts, will continue the pregnancy to its tragic end. Others, drawing on their own equally sincere principles, will intervene. It is not a choice that any of us would want to make, and under House Bill 954, approved this week by a House committee, we would not have to. Because if the bill passes, as seems likely, Georgia legislators will have made that decision for every mother in the state.
Under the bill, the legal window in which abortions can be performed in Georgia would shrink from 26 to 20 weeks. Supporters justify the change by claiming that after 20 weeks, fetuses are capable of feeling pain and thus need to be protected, regardless of viability.
There are two major problems here:
1. That legislative threshold of 20 weeks contradicts the overwhelming consensus of the scientific and medical community, which holds that as a fetus develops, the neural connections needed to feel pain do not occur until 28 or 29 weeks. The pain argument is being used to advance an agenda, not to respond to science.
2. The change will do nothing to affect the vast majority of abortions, which is the real target of its sponsors. According to the Guttmacher Institute, 89 percent of abortions are performed in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, long before the proposed law would take effect.
Many of the small fraction of abortions that occur after the proposed 20-week deadline involve what are called “medically futile pregnancies” such as those described above.
As a prominent Atlanta obstetrician told me this week, consider a woman who at 20 weeks discovers that her fetus suffers from anencephaly, which means it’s missing part of its head. The goal of his practice is to see high-risk pregnancies through to a healthy, successful live birth, but sometimes that just isn’t possible.
“The fetus has no skull,” he explained. “I don’t think many of us walk around without a skull. It is not going to survive no matter what you do. We tell the mother what we found, and we let her go through full counseling, grief counseling. And at the end of that, we give her the option of carrying that pregnancy or not.”
Under HB 954, that option would no longer be available.
That fetus will be carried to full term, under the false excuse of sparing it pain, and the result will be a baby “condemned to writhe in agony” as it dies shortly after birth.
(As a condition of the interview, the doctor asked not to be named. He has been advised not to speak publicly out of fear for his personal safety and threats of economic boycott.)
The bill is also certain to force abortions that otherwise will not have occurred, he said.
“I saw a couple at 21 or 22 weeks. They didn’t have health insurance until then because he was transferring jobs, so they hadn’t had the screening. When they came to see me, they were distraught. The fetus had a heart defect, what turned out to have been a fixable heart defect. But we didn’t know that for sure. We had to go through amniocentesis, which takes a week. That brings us up to 22 and a half weeks. Then we had to counsel this family and convince them that this heart defect was fixable. Because we had the time, we were able to walk them through the process and they didn’t terminate.
“If I had seen them at 19 weeks and four days, and this new law gave them just three days to decide, they would have terminated that pregnancy. We told the Legislature that, but these legislators think that’s not going to happen.
“It’s going to happen.”
In more than five hours of hearings this month, legislators have been made aware of these consequences, but they made no substantive changes to the bill.
“From my standpoint, if they wanted to cut off elective terminations — the woman who just decides at 22 weeks, I don’t want this baby — I could live with that,” the doctor told me. “But let the woman who has a complication make rational decisions.”
– Jay Bookman
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709 comments Add your comment
TaxPayer
February 29th, 2012
5:07 pm
Or maybe I meant this one.
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
5:08 pm
KAM; I scrolled through it when I accidentally clicked on ESPN, but I didn’t have time. It was half time then and I had to bolt for the store. When I got back it was over. Weird how the replay an ESPN3 won’t play.
Billybob
February 29th, 2012
5:09 pm
the left claims i am a racist for something daily tbs……
AmVet - Son of a union thug
February 29th, 2012
5:10 pm
OK, Mr. Erudite William Robert, since you have no idea, and care even less, what Americans think about abortion, maybe you’ll like this quote about your beloved party…
Republicans approve of the American farmer, but they are willing to help him go broke. They stand four-square for the American home–but not for housing. They are strong for labor–but they are stronger for restricting labor’s rights. They favor minimum wage–the smaller the minimum wage the better. They endorse educational opportunity for all–but they won’t spend money for teachers or for schools. They think modern medical care and hospitals are fine–for people who can afford them. They consider electrical power a great blessing–but only when the private power companies get their rake-off. They think American standard of living is a fine thing–so long as it doesn’t spread to all the people. And they admire of Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it. ~Harry Truman
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
5:10 pm
“If it’s human life in the womb then extinguishing that human life would be an act of murder, would it not?”
Except it’s not “human life” – it’s symbiotic life, TOTALLY dependent on the host (the woman). That’s how we are made. We women have TOTAL control over what happens to that pregnancy. TOTAL control.
They BOTH suck
February 29th, 2012
5:12 pm
Billybob
I never claimed you were a racist? You posted something about eugenics and the person being Hillary’s hero. I do not know about her, however I assume she was a racist or you assume she was one
So I asked you the question I did about the Founding Fathers; seeing most of the owned slaves
Brosephus™ -
February 29th, 2012
5:13 pm
Boy, Americans are some heartless mofo’s. No wonder such heartlessness goes on in govermnent too…
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bonus-withdrawal-puts-bankers-malaise-050100338.html
If you wanna read something from some heartless mofo’s, you gotta scroll through the comments on this article. They make Fred look like a saint.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 29th, 2012
5:14 pm
the left claims i am a racist for something daily tbs……
Pity party for Billybob.
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
5:14 pm
Billybob
February 29th, 2012
5:04 pm
carlin and maher quotes show how the leftists are barely hanging on……….and how narrow their ideology is and why conservatism is winning the argument today……and will win the argument all the way to the white house in nov…..enjoy
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED right? Just like when GW said it?
http://tinyurl.com/6vxgmg7
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
5:27 pm
“and will win the argument all the way to the white house in nov”
It’s so darn CUTE when someone declares victory and then retreats as quickly as they can!
AmVet - Son of a union thug
February 29th, 2012
5:31 pm
57% of Americans say abortion should be legal in all or most cases.
88% say it should be legal to save the mother’s life.
82% say it should be legal to save the mother’s health.
81% say it should be legal in case of rape/incest.
Even 54% say it should be legal in the case of a physically impaired baby.
Yet according to one blogger here, it is radical leftists who are pushing this agenda.
No wonder he is so despondent; a minimum of 57% of the people in this nation are radical leftists.
Keep Up--Te gusta losing woofinpoofs?
February 29th, 2012
5:31 pm
Bro… I love this one:
“People who don’t have money don’t understand the stress,” said Alan Dlugash, a partner at accounting firm Marks Paneth & Shron LLP in New York who specializes in financial planning for the wealthy. “Could you imagine what it’s like to say I got three kids in private school, I have to think about pulling them out? How do you do that?”
I am sure the guy who lost his job and his house and struggles to feed his family agrees that it’s just sooooo difficult to understand that stress.
sam
February 29th, 2012
5:32 pm
if you’re going as billybob you gonna have to suffer some consequences..one of those is the assumption that you are a racist.
The Fourth Reich
February 29th, 2012
5:33 pm
Billybob – I heard back from Daryl and klan meeting will be at your house tonight. Please make sure Vidalia is tied up and gagged; Rickybob just got out of prison and is royally miffed that Vidalia aborted after that last rape of his; I don’t know what he’ll do if he know’s she’s home. I’m bringing peanuts, grits and beer. Have Emaus pick some collard greens as well (but don’t whip him ‘cos ‘Lil Billybob is frightened by the lash marks).
Brosephus™ -
February 29th, 2012
5:37 pm
Keep Up
I kinda feel bad at laughing, but the comment section is off the hook. Reading that story only reaffirms my resolve to live within my means. Other than visiting family, my wife and I have had one vacation in almost 20 years together. We have had 6 cars where 2 were given from family, 3 were bought used, and one came “new” off the lot. The new one was a program vehicle with a little under 2k miles on it, so we got a good discount on it. My wife calls me cheap, but I prefer thrifty. I don’t mind paying for quality goods, but I refuse to buy stuff just because of the name.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 29th, 2012
5:37 pm
Well, I was just reading that piece Brocephus put up. You know it’s tough times when the average Wall Street bonus is down to $121,000 and workers is having to pull their kids out of private schools and they have to drive Porsches and stuff for everyday travel. This is what 3 yrs. of Obama has done to us. You can’t have Trickle Down, you know, if the Job Creators don’t have enough left over to trickle on the rest of us. That’s why we need to be sure and get a Republican in the White House, so those Wall Street people will make enough money to live on.
Well, Fox News is on and I got to get to it. Have a good night everybody.
JohnnyReb
February 29th, 2012
5:47 pm
“We women have TOTAL control over what happens to that pregnancy. TOTAL control.”
Then why do you see the doctor for prenatal care and then do as he/she says? Total control implies total independence, which is obviously not the case. What you really mean is, you don’t want a MAN telling you what to do, except maybe a doctor-man.
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
5:48 pm
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
5:10 pm
“If it’s human life in the womb then extinguishing that human life would be an act of murder, would it not?”
Except it’s not “human life” – it’s symbiotic life, TOTALLY dependent on the host (the woman). -Doggone
Well of course. Therefore seeing as how a fetus 8 3/4 months into pregnancy is not a human because it is still totally dependent on its mother we should go ahead and amend the abortion law to where we can just start aborting them right up until when a woman goes into labor.
Such is the twisted logic of the kook left.
Bruno
February 29th, 2012
5:48 pm
Except it’s not “human life” – it’s symbiotic life
It’s simply amazing to me the lengths the Libs here go to to try to prove the unprovable. A human is a human, at whatever stage of development that human may be in. Zygote, embryo, fetus, newborn, child, preteen, teen, adult, old person–All humans at every stage of the way. Arbitrary age demarcations can’t change that simple fact of biology.
I support legal abortion, but let’s be honest here. A life is ended by abortion. A human life. To claim otherwise is beyond stupid.
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
5:50 pm
“Total control implies total independence”
No, it doesn’t. Total control means that the woman has the say-so in what does or doesn’t happen. It doesn’t matter who she consults, SHE is still the one in charge. And why do y ou assume that women only go to male doctors?
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
5:51 pm
Amvet,
And I’m sure that in the days of the confederacy that about 95% of southern white people thought that slavery should be legal. Did that make slavery moral? Or right? No. It just made it the law of the land.
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
5:53 pm
“Therefore seeing as how a fetus 8 3/4 months into pregnancy is not a human because it is still totally dependent on its mother we should go ahead and amend the abortion law to where we can just start aborting them right up until when a woman goes into labor.”
At that age it’s not an abortion, it’s an induced labor and delivery.
JohnnyReb
February 29th, 2012
5:54 pm
“It’s simply amazing to me the lengths the Libs here go to to try to prove the unprovable.”
Zig zag, Bruno. If we state it, it’s their mission to prove us wrong. Just like the auto bailout. Can we get back to that? The WSJ had an article today that points out how more than just the bankruptcy has helped GM. Billions of dollars of tax forgiveness not given Ford, which has put Ford at a competitive disadvantage. Collateral damage which the Libs always and never see, which happens every time. And in the case of the tax due change, another handout to the union by Obama.
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
5:54 pm
Bruno,
I’m flabbergasted over some of their nonsense. Joe Mama said earlier that a fetus is not a human until after birth and after the umbilical chord is cut. Going by his logic and doggone’s logic I suppose the abortion laws should be changed so that we can rip babies out of the wound at 8 3/4 months. After all its still not human since its still being fully dependent on the mother.
The Fourth Reich
February 29th, 2012
5:55 pm
Bruno – perhaps if you had children of your own you’d have a better sense for how the gestational process unfolds. Initially, the embryo is little more than a pulse; it certainly isn’t a human being, although it has the capability to one day become one.
JohnnyReb
February 29th, 2012
5:56 pm
Doggone – you are blinded by partisanship. The first reference to a doctor in my post was he/she. Only when bringing up the “I don’t want a man to tell me what to do” did I state doctor-man.
The Fourth Reich
February 29th, 2012
5:56 pm
Much like sperm, I might add.
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
5:56 pm
“It’s simply amazing to me the lengths the Libs here go to to try to prove the unprovable”
I suggest you look up the definition of a symbiote before you get too deep into your outrage.
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
5:56 pm
Oh, good.
The O’bozo administration has publicly (!) admitted it has no intent to reduce gas prices. It’s only interested in algae and such.
Topic of the day?
Abortion.
Deflect, deflect, deflect. It’s the only lib ilk campaign strategy left.
Paul
February 29th, 2012
5:56 pm
Let us all pause, bow our heads and offer pleadings to BlogGod that he may remove the curse of this ongoing, perpetual, eternal, miserable thread and bless us with a new thread that will engender discourse, respect, insight and increased understanding.
Billybob
February 29th, 2012
5:57 pm
i didn’t mean to imply you did tbs……just stating the reality of the way the media portrays my ilk……doesn’t bother me, i confront it and expose the lies, but your question and it’s premise are irrelevant to this and i won’t take the bait……some excellent imaginations on here……..
The Fourth Reich
February 29th, 2012
5:58 pm
Thulsa – perhaps if you had children of your own, you’d know that a baby is totally dependent on its parents for quite a while after being born. Some (like you) continue that dependency well into adulthood.
AmVet - Son of a union thug
February 29th, 2012
5:58 pm
Bruno, I completely agree.
And why I have no problem with the phrase unborn baby or unborn child.
I do have a big problem with people who just make up their own language with it’s own dumbass definitions.
i.e., abortion is murder. As you noted, beyond stupid.
Doom, that was not my point. My point was that billybob’s contention that radical leftists are the real push behind abortion is nonsense. Clearly that is not the case.
The Fourth Reich
February 29th, 2012
5:58 pm
Sinkmeister – price of gas is determined by the free market, not by the President. Please try again.
Paul
February 29th, 2012
5:59 pm
Hey Sinkwich
You still taking the position the Air Force generals and Navy admirals are all a bunch of pipedream socialist moneywasters for spending hundreds of millions on biofuels research for jets and ships?
They even call it something along the lines of ‘national security.’
Heck, I think they don’t know the value of a dollar. Don’t they have any idea how many prosthetic limbs and funerals they can pay for with what they’re spending on biofuels research and testing?
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
5:59 pm
Doggone,
Nope. You don’t have to induce labor. You can just cut open the womb with a surgical instrument, take it out, and just suffocate it or do whatever it is you would do to end its life. Because as you very clearly and plainly stated above “Except it’s not “human life” – it’s symbiotic life, TOTALLY dependent on the host (the woman).” Care to amend your definition or are you like Joe mama willing to stubbornly stick with your definition that its not a human life as long as its still in the womb?
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
6:00 pm
“Only when bringing up the “I don’t want a man to tell me what to do” did I state doctor-man”
Thereby indicating that women only consult male doctors about their pregnancies. But if you don’t like it that the woman has total control, take it up with God (or Mother Nature, I’m not fussy about who you blame) because it is how it IS. Woman have total control over the pregnancy.
If she allows anyone else input into her pregnancy as it advances, it is still HER choice to do so.
JohnnyReb
February 29th, 2012
6:00 pm
Sinkwich – Personally, I have to give Jay a pass on posting on abortion again. And, I think the only reason he did was to show how misguied the Republican led GA legislature is on abortion, which I agree.
But you are correct. Obama’s energy boy testified the administrations objective on energy is alternate sources, not lowering the price. This is the same guy to stated the price of US gas needs to move up to that of Europe. My guess is, if Obamacare does not get Barry voted out, this crap from his and his boys will.
AmVet - Son of a union thug
February 29th, 2012
6:01 pm
BTW, I do want to say something in regards to the mystery meat, The Fourth Reich.
I may be wrong, but I have never seen billybob make overtly racist statements, as you allege.
Although numerous others here have.
Unless you can provide some compelling proof, I’d say you are full of BS…
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
6:02 pm
Amvet,
I would agree with you on that point. I think a lot of moderates and even some republicans have been desensitized to the point of just accepting abortion as a way of life. Whether you agree with it or not it has been widely accepted as the law of the land. As as a con my opinion is that it will stay the law of the land.
pogo
February 29th, 2012
6:03 pm
How’s that effort to recall the governor of Wisconsin going for you union lovers?
Josef
February 29th, 2012
6:03 pm
Paul
Amen!
Fred
What kind of borsht are you doing?
AmVet - Son of a union thug
February 29th, 2012
6:03 pm
That third sentence in my last post was awkward.
Let me rephrase.
Although numerous others here have made overtly racist statements.
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
6:04 pm
“You can just cut open the womb with a surgical instrument, take it out, and just suffocate it or do whatever it is you would do to end its life. ”
But that is not an abortion either. It is a Ceasaren section and is a form of induced delivery. You’re getting more and more desparate I see.
pogo
February 29th, 2012
6:06 pm
Algae gas at $16.00 bucks a gallon. Sounds viable to me.
Brosephus™ -
February 29th, 2012
6:06 pm
You don’t have to induce labor. You can just cut open the womb with a surgical instrument, take it out, and just suffocate it or do whatever it is you would do to end its life.
Sounds like a C-Section to me. I think that would qualify as a delivery, just as Doggone stated.
————————–
Seems like everybody has their own definitions of what constitutes life, a human, or whatever else has to be defined in this argument. I don’t know about everybody’s qualifications, but I don’t recall any pediatricians, or OB/GYN’s blogging here, so I will personally defer to them when it comes to the definitions.
JohnnyReb
February 29th, 2012
6:06 pm
Doggone – the father should have some say in the matter. If you disagree, then assume total responsibility including financial.
There are two things about kids. You can’t divorce them as you can a wife. Besides they, unlike a wife, have your unconditional love, so you don’t want to divorce them no matter how bad they are.
Because of the kid, you can’t get away from the x-wife until the kid is a self sustaining adult. A horrible reality. And, based on today’s kids never moving permanently out, there stands the chance of never really having to see or talk to the x again.
My point being, too bad a man cannot abort a wife!
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
6:06 pm
“As as a con my opinion is that it will stay the law of the land.”
And if you could change it, and make it illegal again, how would YOU go about forcing women to carry their pregnancies to term?
Brosephus™ -
February 29th, 2012
6:07 pm
Topic of the day?
Abortion.
Deflect, deflect, deflect. It’s the only lib ilk campaign strategy left.
Yep, that all-powerful lib ilk got the GOP Assembly to bring up an abortion bill. I wish the GOP had enough brains to do things on their own instead of being puppets of lib ilk.
AmVet - Son of a union thug
February 29th, 2012
6:08 pm
Doom,
At 57 percent, support for legal abortion in all or most cases is about what it’s been on average in polls that have asked it this way since 1995. Most Americans eschew the extreme positions: 23 percent want abortion legal in all cases, and 17 percent want it illegal in all cases.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/abortion_poll030122.html
When I was 11 I really liked the Monkees. By the time I was 13 or so, my musical tastes had moved up considerably.
Even so, they had some fine stuff.
In memory of Davey Jones…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaxwBSyiya8
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
6:08 pm
“How’s that effort to recall the governor of Wisconsin going for you union lovers?”
The Governor and his team have chosen not to contest any of the signatures. The recall election could be as early as May (I think that’s right)
They BOTH suck
February 29th, 2012
6:09 pm
Billybob
You made cliams about Hillary because some talk show told you somebody was a racists……. YOU made the claim not I.
Based on your claim that someone is or wants to be a racist because you claim someone else is racist is STUPID
That is why I asked the question…..
You didn’t take the bait, but you more than understood the point
Have a great day
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
6:11 pm
Doggone,
Me desperate? You gotta be kidding. All you’re doing is hiding behind different methods of terminating the different life. Doesn’t matter if you cut the fetus out of the wound and do it such as in a late term abortion or the suction thing such as a 1st trimester abortion. The result is the same- you are terminating a human life. Only difference is the method you use. And to prove the absolute silliness of your absurdities look at those late stage abortions such as the ones Joe tiller used to do. Are those abortions similar to the 1st trimester abortions? Um. No. Hell no. I went get into the gruesomeness of those abortions but those abortions are more like a surgical abortion or caesarean that you speak of. Yet they are still called abortions. Your logic and your attempts to hide behind semantics or moving the goal posts are simply laughable.
They BOTH suck
February 29th, 2012
6:12 pm
Billybob
Excuse me you didn’t claim Hillary was a racist…… but the comment was
“some might call what hillary’s hero wanted to do a little radical, racist, extremist in nature…….”
Which meant what?
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
6:12 pm
“the father should have some say in the matter.”
that is purely a societal function. It is not biological. Once sex is completed, from a biological standpoint, the male is out of it completely.
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
6:13 pm
They BOTH suck,
A couple of those posts @ 3:59 and 4:08 were by a namejacker. I can be very facetious as you stated but it wasn’t me talking about sending a 6 year old to work as a janitor.
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
6:13 pm
Oh my. If I didn’t know any better, I would think think Bruno is ignoring me.
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
6:13 pm
“Sinkmeister – price of gas is determined by the free market, not by the President. Please try again.”
Yo, genius, your messiah has done everything he can to reduce the US supply of oil. Econ 101 says lower supply means higher prices.
And before you respond with that BS about “more oil produced since 2003,” take a look at where that oil is coming from: private and state lands.
O’bozo can influence oil prices by opening up federal lands for extraction, fast-tracking permits, etc.
His administration is on record. His goal is to increase gas prices to double what they are today.
Oh, and Paul, do you really think the Pentagon gives a crap about algae? They want oil. And lots of it. But the eco
Billybob
February 29th, 2012
6:13 pm
so sebellius admits that she is putting private health insurance out of business the same day that obama admits he wants high gas prices and even higher………..the extremist viewpoint can be seen here for all…..taking over and industry and instituting policies that will drive gas prices up like the pipeline that he vetoed……..this is fun to expose what the leftists want for this country……..this is about gov’t controlling how you get your healthcare and about gov’t controlling what you drive whilst forcing higher prices on you to force you to get what it wants for you…….people need to understand the radical nature of the leftists who control the democrat party today………these things aren’t being done for the people, they are being done TO the people based on an agenda that thumbs its nose at the constitution
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
6:14 pm
Weenies are calling the shots.
They BOTH suck
February 29th, 2012
6:14 pm
TD
Got you………. I figured if it was your post that you would have been joking…….. I was surprised that Adam even responded to that one.
You get me sometimes but anyone had to know that was a joke
They BOTH suck
February 29th, 2012
6:16 pm
“Weenies are calling the shots”
Bush left office 3 yrs ago and Republicans control the House
Billybob
February 29th, 2012
6:16 pm
tbs,
do you know who singer is and her early comments concerning abortion………that is where the racist allusion comes from………
Doggone/Ga
February 29th, 2012
6:17 pm
” Your logic and your attempts to hide behind semantics or moving the goal posts are simply laughable.”
I have made my opinion perfectly clear: once the pregnancy is ended and the foetus/child takes it’s first breath it is a separate human being. Up until the point where it is DEVELOPMENTALLY at the stage where it can reasonably be expected to live, it is a symbiote of the woman and totally under her control.
If she chooses extreme measures to save it, that’s HER decision. Only when the “state” can take total control of any terminated pregnancy and raise that developing foetus without a womb will the state have any right to do so. We aren’t there yet, and it’s unlikely we ever will be.
So we’re stuck with what God/Mother Nature has provided: total control by the woman and her body.
They BOTH suck
February 29th, 2012
6:18 pm
Billybob
Again, excuse me for misinterpreting your original post. Why we do disagree on the abortion issue, I wouldn’t have asked you my question had I processed the quote correctly.
The Fourth Reich
February 29th, 2012
6:19 pm
Sinkmeiseter – US oil output is at its highest level in 15 years, and is projected to hit an all time high by 2016. Go on, look it up. Can you spell “dolt”?
AmVet - Son of a union thug
February 29th, 2012
6:19 pm
…opening up federal lands…
Somebody keeps using that phrase. I do not think it means what he thinks it means.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHVjs4aobqs&feature=related
Keep Up--Te gusta losing woofinpoofs?
February 29th, 2012
6:19 pm
George Tiller performed lawful late term abortions based on constitutionally required excepts for threats to the mother’s life, physical health and mental health, including where 2 doctors certifithat carrying the fetus to term would cause substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function.
The Fourth Reich
February 29th, 2012
6:20 pm
But, yes, the price of oil (and, correspondingly, gas), needs to go much, much higher. Short term pain for long term gain.
Paul
February 29th, 2012
6:21 pm
AmVet
Davey Jones dead? Holy cow – he was only 66 and looked really good in a recent tv appearance.
But as you well know, the outside isn’t always a good guide to what’s going on in the inside.
Another tribute
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uohP4gk0wU
Recon 0311 2533
February 29th, 2012
6:21 pm
“That legislative threshold of 20 weeks contradicts the overwhelming consensus of the scientific and medical community, which holds that as a fetus develops, the neural connections needed to feel pain do not occur until 28 or 29 weeks.”
That appears to be an assumed fact by the author and not necessarily a fact. In the event this bill is signed into law there could and probably will be legal challenge. If the state can prove that there’s a likelihood that the the fetus could indeed feel extreme pain then a judge might have a difficult time throwing it out. It appears though from some of the comments on this blog that some who abhor torture evidently forgo their aversion when it could potentially be the torture life growing in the womb. Interesting.
Orange12
February 29th, 2012
6:21 pm
Good news. Obama just lost the retired military vote.Proposals have been made to increase Tricare cost paid by retired military individuals and family sharply.
Logical Dude
February 29th, 2012
6:22 pm
As someone trained as a scientist, I really don’t like it when government uses religion to cover every little thing that they think it should cover.
So, scientifically looking at the starting point of what we would call “Life”, I look to the opposite end. . . when we define “Death”. (removing text leading to conclusion)
I conclude that life begins when there is brain activity enough for thought.
So, before that happens, an abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.
After that happens, Only in the case of the mother’s health.
They BOTH suck
February 29th, 2012
6:22 pm
Billybob
I will check out Singer but even if she was a racist; it would not take long for anyone to play the hero game and tie others to people who were or are racists and bigots
I understand your position, however Hillary being Singer’s hero should have no bearing on the topic…….. outside of it being a jab you wanted to make
Paul
February 29th, 2012
6:22 pm
This one’s cleaned up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU615FaODCg
They BOTH suck
February 29th, 2012
6:25 pm
Orange12
How much in Tricare going up?
Is the increase in line with similar plans?
When was the last time it went up?
Is there something in writing that guarantees the same cost until death?
Billybob
February 29th, 2012
6:25 pm
fourth reich,
watching obama over 3+ years bashing oil companies and stating energy and gas prices need to necessarily skyrocket in order to push his agenda can not be swept up under the rug during this election and all his words an actions and own ego is what will help elect a republican led by a conservative vision for this country……..obama is almost out of other people’s money libs……enjoy…..
AmVet - Son of a union thug
February 29th, 2012
6:25 pm
How did sex come to be thought of as dirty in the first place? God must have been a Republican. ~ Will Durst
Bruno
February 29th, 2012
6:26 pm
I suggest you look up the definition of a symbiote before you get too deep into your outrage.
Doggone–Do you really want to get in a peeing contest about who knows more about biology?? I’ve taken numerous courses on embryology/gynecology/obstetrics, not to mention all of the other courses on microbiology, histology, and biochemistry.
Point blank, if an embryo isn’t “human”, what is it??
Paul
February 29th, 2012
6:28 pm
Sinkwich
“Oh, and Paul, do you really think the Pentagon gives a crap about algae? They want oil. And lots of i”
You never did try to expand your mind by reading those links on Pentagon driving algae-fuel R&D for years, did you? Even though I gave you step by step instructions on how to use The Google you just couldn’t bear to challenge your preconceived biases.
But to answer your question, the whole purpose of pursuing biofuels is so they’re not dependent on mideast oil! Especially, if we keep on our present consumption and world presence path, we could very well be involved in a major war over there. A major war. Not the nationbuilding, keep a lid on it actions we’ve been involved with for the past decade.
So go ahead, ridicule conservation efforts and alternate fuels efforts. As long as we have men and women wearing the uniform who are willing to die for your addiction, what’s the problem?
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
6:28 pm
Doggone,
Typical liberal nonsense regarding abortion. You don’t want to answer the central question about whether abortion is or isn’t the killing of a human life. You deflect by changing the argument to some nonsensical rant about its a woman’s body and some crap about total control and something about an arbitrarily chosen “stage of development” that you deem as being human or not human. And by doing all that you avoid the simple straightforward question- Is abortion the killing of a human life no matter what the stage of development? Its a simple yes/no question. And trying to get into nonsense about the different stages of life or the different methods used to extinguish life doesn’t change the central question. As it may have been you yourself I think pointed out earlier “life is life”.
Billybob
February 29th, 2012
6:28 pm
tbs, i understand your point and you are right, i wasn’t trying to imply clinton was racist, only pointing out the views of singer which are horrendous
Orange12
February 29th, 2012
6:28 pm
TBS – Standby
Keep Up--Te gusta losing woofinpoofs?
February 29th, 2012
6:29 pm
It appears though from some of the comments on this blog that some who abhor torture evidently forgo their aversion when it could potentially be the torture life growing in the womb
And it would appear that some who readily endorse torture falsely equate “pain” as torture or support painful executions. Perhaps the problem comes from understanding that false absolutes will not resolve these issues but to understand that often the answers come from balancing of nuanced scales of a number of issues.
Bruno
February 29th, 2012
6:29 pm
I conclude that life begins when there is brain activity enough for thought.
You may conclude that, but it doesn’t make it true. You may choose not to confer legal rights priopr to brain activity, but to deny that an embryo is not “alive” is plain stupid.
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
6:29 pm
Bruno
February 29th, 2012
6:26 pm
Point blank, if an embryo isn’t “human”, what is it??
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Here is an embryo, you tell ME what it is?
http://tinyurl.com/6olcf9b
Billybob
February 29th, 2012
6:30 pm
good point tulsa……
pogo
February 29th, 2012
6:31 pm
Today the NYT’s had another excellent piece of journalism by Thomas Friedman about the so-called “Arab Spring” that was so much adored and embraced by the American left and the “occupy” crowd in this country. By proxy, Obama stood back and soaked in the credit for it. I would encourage everyone, either left or right, to read Friedman’s piece. Obama apologizes for the so-called “Koran burning” yet muslims kill each other daily without a blink and guess as a collective who they blame as being the monster? The AJC could learn one hell of a lot from the NYT’s. I don’t agree with everything the Times publishes but they at least have the integrity to publish stuff that is contradictory to what their Editorial Board believes. But not the AJC. Jay is proof enough of this. Someone here said today for another poster to prove that Jay is totally left in his writings. The proof is that to this day Jay has never written a substantial piece critisizing Obama or his administration. Never. Yes, he may have written some fluff about a subject that was of little consequence to Obama’s or the lefts cause but when it gets down to the real issues like Obama being just as much a tool of big money as any other politician, Jay leaves that alone. Why? Political ideology. Jay would rather look over the real problems with this administration than call them out for the things that really matter such as their cowtowing to big money special interests.
Recon 0311 2533
February 29th, 2012
6:31 pm
“And it would appear that some who readily endorse torture falsely equate “pain” as torture or support painful executions. Perhaps the problem comes from understanding that false absolutes will not resolve these issues but to understand that often the answers come from balancing of nuanced scales of a number of issues.”
Talk about nuanced.
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
6:31 pm
“But, yes, the price of oil (and, correspondingly, gas), needs to go much, much higher. Short term pain for long term gain.”
Thank you, reich, for actually stating the lib ilk agenda in public. Most ilks here won’t do that.
Reich, like all lib ils who won’t admit it, want misery for all.
Paul
February 29th, 2012
6:32 pm
Orange12
“Obama just lost the retired military vote.Proposals have been made to increase Tricare cost paid by retired military individuals and family sharply.”
As well they should. People receiving pensions equal to the average household income up to several times the average household income can well afford more than $260 a year for health insurance.
josef
February 29th, 2012
6:33 pm
I had a serious schooboy crush on Davey Jones…kinda depressing when he croaks of old age…
AmVet - Son of a union thug
February 29th, 2012
6:33 pm
Yeah, Paul he ran on the beach every day apparently and was in great shape.
Get busy living, or get busy dying. ~Andy Dufresne in the Shawshank Redemption
12, you’re SILL dredging up that non-story from last September?
Oy…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfuBREMXxts
Mick
February 29th, 2012
6:34 pm
I have to agree with bruno, it is human life every step of the way. Doe’s the mother have the choice to terminate? I’ll not make that decision for her…
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
6:34 pm
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
6:31 pm
“But, yes, the price of oil (and, correspondingly, gas), needs to go much, much higher. Short term pain for long term gain.”
Thank you, reich, for actually stating the lib ilk agenda in public. Most ilks here won’t do that.
Reich, like all lib ils who won’t admit it, want misery for all.
____________________________________________________
So do you want the US to forcibly take over the foreign oil companies that own the oil or should we just go invade their home countries and whip their asses into submission?
They BOTH suck
February 29th, 2012
6:34 pm
Orange12
Any info would be great. I found an article that said some of the increase for 2012 would be the 1st in 15 yrs.
If that is true, there are not many people with company or individual plans who have had rates hold steady for 15 yrs
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
6:35 pm
AmVet,
I still remember this intro as a child about as vividly as I can remember anything. RIP Davey Jones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzA_qmJkmLY
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
6:35 pm
“But to answer your question, the whole purpose of pursuing biofuels is so they’re not dependent on mideast oil!”
Look, Paul, I can’t believe you’re this dense, but then again you loves you a lot of O’bozo.
Read slowly: drill and refine oil here, then we don’t have to worry about the Mideast.
Mick
February 29th, 2012
6:35 pm
**he ran on the beach every day apparently and was in great shape.**
Apparently not…who knows what ticking time bomb lurks within us all?
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
6:37 pm
F. Sinkwich
February 29th, 2012
6:35 pm
“But to answer your question, the whole purpose of pursuing biofuels is so they’re not dependent on mideast oil!”
Look, Paul, I can’t believe you’re this dense, but then again you loves you a lot of O’bozo.
Read slowly: drill and refine oil here, then we don’t have to worry about the Mideast.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Refine WHERE dummy? Our refining places are at capacity………….