The heartlessness of Ga. anti-abortion bill
NOTE: This is published as the electronic version of today’s AJC column. Portions of this post have appeared earlier on this blog.
Imagine being a happily pregnant couple, 20 weeks along, when things go tragically amiss. Tests reveal that if carried to term, your child will be born without a skull, or perhaps without functioning lungs, which means that upon birth it will begin to die immediately of asphyxiation, with no hope of saving it.
Do you continue the pregnancy, knowing that the child has no chance of survival and that in many cases its “life” will at best consist of a few short hours of intense agony? Or do you end the pregnancy in the best interests of all involved, including that of the doomed fetus?
Some parents, drawing upon their faith and moral precepts, will continue the pregnancy to its tragic end. Others, drawing on their own equally sincere principles, will intervene. It is not a choice that any of us would want to make, and under House Bill 954, approved this week by a House committee, we would not have to. Because if the bill passes, as seems likely, Georgia legislators will have made that decision for every mother in the state.
Under the bill, the legal window in which abortions can be performed in Georgia would shrink from 26 to 20 weeks. Supporters justify the change by claiming that after 20 weeks, fetuses are capable of feeling pain and thus need to be protected, regardless of viability.
There are two major problems here:
1. That legislative threshold of 20 weeks contradicts the overwhelming consensus of the scientific and medical community, which holds that as a fetus develops, the neural connections needed to feel pain do not occur until 28 or 29 weeks. The pain argument is being used to advance an agenda, not to respond to science.
2. The change will do nothing to affect the vast majority of abortions, which is the real target of its sponsors. According to the Guttmacher Institute, 89 percent of abortions are performed in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, long before the proposed law would take effect.
Many of the small fraction of abortions that occur after the proposed 20-week deadline involve what are called “medically futile pregnancies” such as those described above.
As a prominent Atlanta obstetrician told me this week, consider a woman who at 20 weeks discovers that her fetus suffers from anencephaly, which means it’s missing part of its head. The goal of his practice is to see high-risk pregnancies through to a healthy, successful live birth, but sometimes that just isn’t possible.
“The fetus has no skull,” he explained. “I don’t think many of us walk around without a skull. It is not going to survive no matter what you do. We tell the mother what we found, and we let her go through full counseling, grief counseling. And at the end of that, we give her the option of carrying that pregnancy or not.”
Under HB 954, that option would no longer be available.
That fetus will be carried to full term, under the false excuse of sparing it pain, and the result will be a baby “condemned to writhe in agony” as it dies shortly after birth.
(As a condition of the interview, the doctor asked not to be named. He has been advised not to speak publicly out of fear for his personal safety and threats of economic boycott.)
The bill is also certain to force abortions that otherwise will not have occurred, he said.
“I saw a couple at 21 or 22 weeks. They didn’t have health insurance until then because he was transferring jobs, so they hadn’t had the screening. When they came to see me, they were distraught. The fetus had a heart defect, what turned out to have been a fixable heart defect. But we didn’t know that for sure. We had to go through amniocentesis, which takes a week. That brings us up to 22 and a half weeks. Then we had to counsel this family and convince them that this heart defect was fixable. Because we had the time, we were able to walk them through the process and they didn’t terminate.
“If I had seen them at 19 weeks and four days, and this new law gave them just three days to decide, they would have terminated that pregnancy. We told the Legislature that, but these legislators think that’s not going to happen.
“It’s going to happen.”
In more than five hours of hearings this month, legislators have been made aware of these consequences, but they made no substantive changes to the bill.
“From my standpoint, if they wanted to cut off elective terminations — the woman who just decides at 22 weeks, I don’t want this baby — I could live with that,” the doctor told me. “But let the woman who has a complication make rational decisions.”
– Jay Bookman
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709 comments Add your comment
Fred &trade
February 29th, 2012
4:03 pm
Ernest T. Bass
February 29th, 2012
3:03 pm
Peadawg’s post because he didn’t say anything even remotely like that.
He didnt remotely say it. He said exactly that. Go back and read it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ya know, on the REMOTE chance I was wrong, that I had missed something Peadawg posted, I scrolled back through 6 pages of (to me) useless damn discussion. And I found that of course I am RIGHT.
Peadawg in no way stated what Bob (and now you) claim he did. But since you seem so sure, why don’t YOU scroll back and post his post with the time stamp and everything. Don’t worry, i’ll wait.
Adam
February 29th, 2012
4:04 pm
Thulsa: (ir)Rational, here’s what it comes down to, and I really mean this: as a conservative, I care about human beings before they are born and after they are dead. What happens in between is up to us, so we don’t need to care about anyone other than ourselves because we can look after ourselves, ourselves. Before we are born, and when we die, we have to rely on others, so that is why I am ok with government inteference before life and after death, but not in between. I’m tired so I’m leaving this one alone for now.
What makes you think that the 18 years prior to adulthood don’t fit into your “reliance on others” argument?
I did, I did
February 29th, 2012
4:04 pm
Rich – Hey, now, fella. If you saw my ‘before’ and ‘after’ pics, I know you’d feel differently about that bikini comment. Just sayin’.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 29th, 2012
4:04 pm
Normal
I will offer my condolence for your predicament. You did what you believed to be the right thing at the time and doing the “what if” thing now won’t help. Hopefully your grandson will see the error of his ways and apologize and try to repair the damage he has caused.
Sending you positive vibes your way.
TaxPayer
February 29th, 2012
4:05 pm
Speaking of guns, where’s that nut case that heads up the NRA these days. That guy sees conspiracies in corn flakes — They made them crunchy so people would want to shoot them as soon as they put milk on them and they turned soggy and then people would want to ban guns for it… or something like that.
(ir)Rational
February 29th, 2012
4:05 pm
Thulsa – As a conservative, I’m against all government intrusion in my life. I’ll accept a reasonable amount, and I assume you will too, we just disagree as to what is reasonable.
They BOTH suck
February 29th, 2012
4:06 pm
Jm
I know you are out there…………. Don’t fade like a cheap pair of wranglers because you stepped in it…..
AmVet - Son of a union thug
February 29th, 2012
4:06 pm
Ah, brother Normal. I hate it so much that you are in pain.
I truly hope you can find some peace about this. You are a very strong man and I trust you will.
My god, life can be hard…
Most of us are sad
No one lets it show
I’ve been shadows of myself
How was I to know?
Tell me scarlet sun what will time allow?
We have brought our children here
Who can save them now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI5dJEjDwHo
Fred &trade
February 29th, 2012
4:07 pm
Ernest T. Bass
February 29th, 2012
3:09 pm
Where did “Peadawg” mention anything about 20 years in the future?
You didn’t say 20 years but you were implying it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He implied nothing of the sort. Are you really that devoid of logic and reason? He merely stated that he thought that someone with no job or insurance should not have gotten pregnant. I have neither defended nor condemned THAT position BTW, but I’m also not going to stand by while someone claims he said something he didn’t.
Argue what he said, not what your mind conjured up out of nowhere. Use the words in black he used.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
4:07 pm
Normal — “This really shakes my soul because for wanting to do “the right thing”, I have caused pain and humiliation for children. I am truly sick to my stomach.”
IMO, you have nothing to feel guilt or regret for. You made what you felt was the appropriate decision at the time, and you make the best of the decision and move on. You’re not responsible for the bad decisions and bad acts of a grandchild, and you shouldn’t blame yourself.
If this troubles you deeply, I suggest you seek professional or pastoral counseling, whichever you’re more comfortable with. Perhaps a counselor could help you come to terms with the situation and find your peace.
I sympathize with you, because I’ve got a dirtbag younger brother with whom I’ve cut all contact. The last time I saw him, I threw him out of my mom’s house. While cleaning the house up, I found his stash and contacted the police. I found out at that point that they were very interested in talking to him in connection with several cases they were investigating.
I haven’t seen him in six or seven years, but he drunk-dialed me in the middle of the night a few years ago and threatened to have me killed. I let him hear me work the action on my shotgun while I had him on the phone. “Come on over,” I replied. “Love for you to come see me and my friend.”
Long story short — it’s rough to have such a family member, but their bad acts are not your fault.
Peadawg
February 29th, 2012
4:08 pm
Rich – “because birth control didn’t work, you can’t afford it” – Those aren’t good enough reasons. Those belong with your “looking good in a summer bikini” sentence.
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
4:08 pm
“What makes you think that the 18 years prior to adulthood don’t fit into your “reliance on others” argument?”
If kids are old enough to be janitors, they are old enough to take care of themselves. Maybe they need protection until age 5. When you hit 6, you’re fair game.
josef
February 29th, 2012
4:08 pm
BOTH SUCK
Being a religious, gun totin’ gay…oh, well, the memo’s not out on that one, yet!
Brosephus™ -
February 29th, 2012
4:08 pm
Normal
You and your family are all in my prayers…
————————–
dB
I’m wondering if a doctor could be charged with violating a woman’s 4th Amendment right under that bill. Undergoing an unnecessary sonogram could be interpreted as an unwarranted search. I don’t know if doctors fall under the 4th in the same manner as law enforcement though. I’ve been trying to find out if there’s anything relating to that anywhere.
Tom Middleton
February 29th, 2012
4:08 pm
In a perfect world (the one of Rick and Mitt’s imaginations), perfect people will only have sex when they want to have children, and every single act will lead to a perfect child (or two or three or more).
But since this isn’t the world any of us live in, and probably wouldn’t even if we could, especially the sex part, we need personal options when things sometimes go wrong.
And the Republicans, far from being perfect themselves – look what they did to our economy last president – need to go do something else for their politics besides tell the rest of us how we should be perfect.
I mean, they can’t even get the “Mammon” thing right, yes? Remember the part of Christianity about not being able to worship God AND wealth (Mammon), that it’s either one or the other? Yeah, like we could ever believe somehow that they’ve chosen God!
:
Fred &trade
February 29th, 2012
4:08 pm
Oh and Peadawg? You are welcome btw for defending you you goober.
I’ll be back to catch up once I get the Borscht good and started.
Peadawg
February 29th, 2012
4:09 pm
Fred &trade
February 29th, 2012
4:07 pm
Thanks…but don’t feed the trolls. They will just keep coming back.
(ir)Rational
February 29th, 2012
4:09 pm
Normal – Real sorry to hear that man.
Recon 0311 2533
February 29th, 2012
4:10 pm
If you believe that life begins at conception then there is no acceptable argument that justifies abortion. You can say it’s the woman’s right to choose because it’s her body, you can say that government has no right to craft legislation that infringes in any way on that right but those arguments along with any others are unacceptable to those who believe that it’s human life in the womb at any stage of pregnancy. Roe vs Wade is the law of the land which legalizes abortion, however, states have the right to place restrictions on the procedure. It is believed by lawmakers in the state of Georgia that at the 20th. week into a pregnancy the fetus has developed to the point of having capability to experience extreme pain during an abortion. There is no irrefutable evidence that disproves this belief, therefore the bill under debate is perfectly acceptable legislation. Jay’s imagine argument should be directed to the lawmakers seeking considering of extenuating circumstances. Advocating complete rejection of Bill 954 on the grounds presented is a disingenuous argument.
Peadawg
February 29th, 2012
4:10 pm
“Oh and Peadawg? You are welcome btw for defending you you goober.
I’ll be back to catch up once I get the Borscht good and started.”
They BOTH suck
February 29th, 2012
4:10 pm
josef
That is funny………
I always liked that quote from Dean. Like most political jargon it is generic and a broad-brush, but comical
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
February 29th, 2012
4:11 pm
Rich
February 29th, 2012
4:02 pm
Rich, you dont want an abortion, dont F’in get one.
Adam
February 29th, 2012
4:11 pm
Thulsa: Maybe they need protection until age 5. When you hit 6, you’re fair game.
Well I strongly disagree, and I think a lot of parents would too.
(ir)Rational
February 29th, 2012
4:11 pm
Pea – Care to defend the “not good reasons” statement? If your 14 year old daughter got knocked up because her boyfriend didn’t put the condom on correctly, or it failed, how would you feel then?
Rich – Well stated. And while I agree that it isn’t a good reason, it isn’t my decision to make, and I don’t believe it is the government’s either. Leave it up to the girl and her family.
(ir)Rational
February 29th, 2012
4:14 pm
Adam – I’m all for leaving the child in the protection of the parents/an adult until a certain age. Honestly, I think 18 is way too young for some people (I was one of those people), but see, Thulsa is one of those “compassionate conservatives” that you hear so much about. Or as you say, he is into “control and punishment.” But not after the child is born.
Brosephus™ -
February 29th, 2012
4:14 pm
If you believe that life begins at conception then there is no acceptable argument that justifies abortion.
100% absolutely correct. That said, what “you” believe might not be what other people believe. Why should you be able to force your beliefs on someone else because you believe different from them? Why should government be able to dictate what a woman can do to her body? If it’s not your body, your child, or your money, why should your beliefs even matter in someone else’s private matters?
They BOTH suck
February 29th, 2012
4:15 pm
Adam
TD can be facetious at times and it can be difficult to know if he is being serious on any given issue, but I think he was pulling your leg about “When you hit 6,”
Adam
February 29th, 2012
4:16 pm
Brosephus: I love it when the argument turns to “science proves life begins at conception.” No it doesn’t. There is no scientific way to verify the beginning of life AT ALL.
Peadawg
February 29th, 2012
4:17 pm
“If your 14 year old daughter got knocked up because her boyfriend didn’t put the condom on correctly, or it failed, how would you feel then?”
If my aunt had a d*k, she’d by uncle. What’s your point?
And no, getting an abortion b/c you can’t afford it is not a good reason…should have kept that ibuprofen between your knees.
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
February 29th, 2012
4:17 pm
“100% absolutely correct. That said, what “you” believe might not be what other people believe.”
He showed exactly why CONs think their BELIEFS should be the law of the land.
Adam
February 29th, 2012
4:19 pm
They BOTH Suck: Possibly. But sometimes you just can’t tell.
Bottom line: If you’re for protecting a life so it can be born, why abandon it specifically at that point? Why abandon it at any point before it is capable of COMPLETELY taking care of itself without reasonable parental help?
I was going to say “without government assistance” but then we’d have to go into how EVERYONE is on some amount of government assistance their whole lives….
Adam
February 29th, 2012
4:21 pm
Peadawg: should have kept that ibuprofen between your knees.
Not 100% effective:
http://notsosecret.com/2012-02-17/how-to-have-sex-with-an-aspirin-between-your-knees/
Adam
February 29th, 2012
4:22 pm
And with that I am OUT
Peadawg
February 29th, 2012
4:22 pm
Um….I’ll click that link tonight when I get home, Adam.
Always interested in new positions
.
Brosephus™ -
February 29th, 2012
4:23 pm
Joe Cool
That’s the one thing I can’t quite grasp. I don’t want my neighbors butting into my personal business inside the walls of my home, and if it doesn’t require it, I don’t want the government in there either. I have my set of beliefs, one of which is that I would personally want to raise my child if some woman was carrying it, even if she didn’t want it. If I can talk her into carrying it to term, no problem. At the same time, I can not hold a gun to her head and force her to do that as it’s her body. I can’t see myself making decisions about somebody else’s body unless I was given the authority to do so by that person. I equate that kind of meddling to owning slaves and dictating what could be done to their bodies. I don’t own anybody and nobody owns me.
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
February 29th, 2012
4:23 pm
The last time a Republican cared about my rights, I was a fetus………
Billybob
February 29th, 2012
4:23 pm
‘ The pain argument is being used to advance an agenda, not to respond to science.’
……how about the kill the baby argument is being used to advance and agenda, not to respond to any moral, responsible or ethical questions at the heart of the matter……….leftist libs like jay and many libs on this board stand up for the actions but do not stand up for the consequences of these actions, where as a conservative stands up for the actions and the consequences of those actions…….that’s a defining difference b/t a lib and a conservative and one that conservatives will never lose sight of jay and is the kind of honesty that permeates conservatives and most americans and that will lead to obama’s losing in Nov………call george on abc and tell him he might want to start a new narrative in the lib media away from social issues, b/c well explained views by a conservative exposes the media and your ilk…….what’s next jay, maybe…….the race card, or is it too early for that false narrative?
FYI…….’The bill is also certain to force abortions that otherwise will not have occurred, he said.’…..this is classic, you argue for abortion while using an argument that this law will create more abortions and that’s a bad thing…….you speak out of both sides of your mouth and this is fundamentally dishonest and i love exposing radical libs like you jay………..
Brosephus™ -
February 29th, 2012
4:24 pm
Pea
I clicked Adam’s link and guessed #1 even before I read it. I could think of a few more that were not listed too.
Recon 0311 2533
February 29th, 2012
4:25 pm
Why should government be able to dictate what a woman can do to her body? If it’s not your body, your child, or your money, why should your beliefs even matter in someone else’s private matters?
If it’s human life in the womb then extinguishing that human life would be an act of murder, would it not? Roe vs Wade allows for abortion to be performed legally, however, reasonable restrictions can be placed on the procedure through state legislation. Ensuring that a fetus developing in the womb doesn’t suffer any potential for extreme pain during the course of an abortive procedure is a reasonable restriction in my opinion.
Keep Up--Te gusta losing woofinpoofs?
February 29th, 2012
4:25 pm
Roe vs Wade is the law of the land which legalizes abortion, however, states have the right to place restrictions on the procedure
Actually the opinions are much more nuanced about that and discuss when the state’s interest overrides a woman’s privacy and other interests finding that the longer the pregnancy proceeds the greater the state’s legitimate interest in regulating abortions (protecting prenatal life and protecting women’s health). So the burden is actually upon the state to prove that it has a legitimate interest despite the many claims otherwise.
Jm
February 29th, 2012
4:26 pm
Tbs 4:06 busy
The typo terrorist
February 29th, 2012
4:27 pm
Joe Cool – “The last time a Republican cared about my rights, I was a fetus………”
I think you meant to say: The last time a Republican PRETENDED TO CARE about my rights, I was a fetus….” Yes?
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
February 29th, 2012
4:31 pm
Brosephus™ -
February 29th, 2012
4:23 pm
True, but the problem is yes we can disagree about what one SHOULD do with their body, it’s another thing to write it into law. The universal law show be “do wtf you want to do to your body but leave the rest of us alone”. Not THATS Liberty..lol
(ir)Rational
February 29th, 2012
4:31 pm
The typo terrorist – Yeah, that’s probably correct.
Recon 0311 2533
February 29th, 2012
4:31 pm
“So the burden is actually upon the state to prove that it has a legitimate interest despite the many claims otherwise”
That would be an argument requiring court settlement not here on the blog.
Billybob
February 29th, 2012
4:31 pm
typo terrorist,
obama is taking away your rights to decide your healthcare for yourself……..I care about the right of freedom and am standing up against obama……the question is will you………?
(ir)Rational
February 29th, 2012
4:32 pm
JOE COOL – That is my position.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
4:32 pm
Recon — “There is no irrefutable evidence that disproves this belief, therefore the bill under debate is perfectly acceptable legislation.”
Rejected. There’s no irrefutable evidence that *proves* the belief, either.
You’re engaging in the logical fallacy of Russell’s Teapot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot
TaxPayer
February 29th, 2012
4:33 pm
The last time a Republican cared about me was during the last election. I see a pattern.
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
February 29th, 2012
4:34 pm
The typo terrorist
February 29th, 2012
4:27 pm
Cant say PRETEND, because they out here sh00ting and bl0wing up stuff behind it.
Brosephus™ -
February 29th, 2012
4:34 pm
If it’s human life in the womb then extinguishing that human life would be an act of murder, would it not?
According to the law, yeah, you can get charged with 2 counts of murder if you kill a woman who’s pregnant. Does that mean you’re gonna go Charles Bronson vigilante to stop other people from getting murdered? I understand the emotional, and religious, draw to opposing abortion, and I won’t argue against it. I just don’t see myself advocating government intrusion into a private medical affair.
Something else that does not sit well with me is this. The same group that decries government involvement in healthcare is the same crowd begging for government incursion into health care. I can not see how one can be so against something and beg for it at the same time.
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
February 29th, 2012
4:35 pm
NEW GAME: Fill in the BLANK
The last time a Republican cared about me was____________.
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
February 29th, 2012
4:36 pm
(ir)Rational
February 29th, 2012
4:32 pm
Yeah, but why is that so hard?
Recon 0311 2533
February 29th, 2012
4:36 pm
Rejected. There’s no irrefutable evidence that *proves* the belief, either.
You’re engaging in the logical fallacy of Russell’s Teapot.
Blog lawyers won’t change any piece of legislation regardless of the basis on which it was crafted and passed into law. I merely stated my opinion.
Jm
February 29th, 2012
4:38 pm
Bro 4:34 not the libs. Libertarians, that is…
carlosgvv
February 29th, 2012
4:39 pm
We humans are biological mammals, like cats, dogs, monkeys etc. We have overpopulated our planet and are paying the price with global warming, rising energy prices, people starving every day and the horrows will only increase as the population increases. The stark fact is not only do we not need any more people, we have way too many now. Our population is now over 7 Billion. It will only increase as more years go by. Many of you think all human life is sacred. However, there is not a shred of evidence that anything is sacred, at least in a supernatural sense. We must began reducing our population now or condemn future generations to untold misery. Worldwide, we need a one child policy only. Abortions must be made avaliable to all who want them. You religious nuts cannot make the biological facts of our existence go away by reading your Bibles and praying to your “God of Love”. Either fact cold hard facts now or curse future generations to misery by your stubborn ignorance.
AmVet - Son of a union thug
February 29th, 2012
4:39 pm
The last time a Republican cared about me was____________.
1954. (I was born in January 1955!)
Once you leave the womb, conservatives don’t care about you until you reach military age. Then you’re just what they’re looking for. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. ~George Carlin
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
4:39 pm
Recon — “Roe vs Wade allows for abortion to be performed legally, however, reasonable restrictions can be placed on the procedure through state legislation. Ensuring that a fetus developing in the womb doesn’t suffer any potential for extreme pain during the course of an abortive procedure is a reasonable restriction in my opinion.”
There’s no legal precedent for the government to step into family medical decisions and prevent an actual child from feeling pain, provided the family is otherwise receiving competent medical care. In any event, if you believe that a fetus is a child, then you must logically concede that the parent or family has the right and authority to make medical decisions for it, just as the state concedes for actual children.
You might be able to make a cogent case for forestalling abortion when parents *disagree,* but if both parents agreed to follow through with an abortion, then they’re making a medical decision for what *you* say is a child, and there’s no precedent for government getting involved in that.
pogo
February 29th, 2012
4:40 pm
Let’s face it, abortions probably prevent a lot of children from having to grow up in a world where nobody really wants them. With all the contraception that is available there is absolutely no excuse for most abortions to even happen, but happen they do. That says a lot about the personnal responsibility (or intelligence) of the people who have to get them or that caused them to happen. Do we really want these peoples genetic material continuing to reproduce? The early progressives (equivalent to todays liberals) such as Margaret Sanger were all about limiting “inferior” genetic material through abortion. Eugenics it was called. The modern progressive movement cannot hide from its origins on this subject or deny the roots ot its belief system. Its your term and the origin of your belief structure on the subject of abortion. Basically they were saying that we don’t need anymore of what WE don’t think we need anymore of. Scary business.
Recon 0311 2533
February 29th, 2012
4:41 pm
“I just don’t see myself advocating government intrusion into a private medical affair.”
Again this bill is proposed legislation you either agree with it or you don’t. I agree with it on the basis for which it was formed.
Mick
February 29th, 2012
4:41 pm
Like a thief in the night – RIP davy jones of the monkees…
(ir)Rational
February 29th, 2012
4:43 pm
JOE COOL – I’m not sure why people can’t understand that position.
jewcowboy
February 29th, 2012
4:43 pm
Meh…if these lawmakers don’t want to let women have abortions, then let her sign a release form, she carries the baby to term while the state of GA pays her a salary and provides medical insurance, then these jacknob legislators have a lottery to determine who has to take the spawn and raise it.
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
4:44 pm
Brosephus™ -
February 29th, 2012
4:24 pm
Pea
I clicked Adam’s link and guessed #1 even before I read it. I could think of a few more that were not listed too.
+++++++++++++++++
You dirty dog Bro. But then that was number one on MY list too lol.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 29th, 2012
4:44 pm
Oooh, the Margaret Sanger card!
Cool beans!
JOE COOL~DoWnToWn THUG
February 29th, 2012
4:44 pm
The last time a Republican cared about me was____________.
When I dropped being a member of the NRA.
Keep Up--Te gusta losing woofinpoofs?
February 29th, 2012
4:44 pm
“So the burden is actually upon the state to prove that it has a legitimate interest despite the many claims otherwise” That would be an argument requiring court settlement not here on the blog.
Actually, it first requires that in sponsoring a bill and passing that bill that the legislature consider whether it has a legitimate state interest. In such consideration, it is perfectly appropriate for comments to be received and frankly perfectly legitimate to discuss in a blog or any public forum. You are entitled to state your opinion, you are not entitled to demand that no one comment or discuss those opinions, criticize them or point out their errors, here or otherwise. If you are too sensitive to receive that opinion or to comprehend that perhaps posters and readers of the “blog lawyers” and others may communicate information here to their legislature, well that is your problem.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
4:45 pm
Recon — “Blog lawyers won’t change any piece of legislation regardless of the basis on which it was crafted and passed into law.”
Judicial review has always held that that state has to prove a compelling state interest in order to infringe on the rights of The People. It’s not incumbent on The People to show that there’s a compelling individual interest in order to overturn a burdensome state interest.
jewcowboy
February 29th, 2012
4:45 pm
Or simply pass a law that outlaws abortion, and stipulates that each woman who wanted an abortion, but was denied one, the father has to have his balls surgically amputated.
Or surgically amputate the balls on a corresponding anti-choice nut who wants deny a woman the right of choice.
Recon 0311 2533
February 29th, 2012
4:45 pm
“You might be able to make a cogent case for forestalling abortion when parents *disagree,* but if both parents agreed to follow through with an abortion, then they’re making a medical decision for what *you* say is a child, and there’s no precedent for government getting involved in that.”
Joe once again you’re taking it into the legal domain. It can’t be argued and adjudicated on the blog. I was merely stating my personal opinion regarding its merit.
Peadawg
February 29th, 2012
4:45 pm
The last time a Republican cared about me was____________.
When you were a millionaire.
Oh you’ve never been one? Woops…..
Jm
February 29th, 2012
4:46 pm
Bill Clinton says: embrace keystone pipeline
Obama is a socialist next to uber capitalist Clinton
Romney 2012
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
4:47 pm
terrorist @ 4:45 — holy crap
The typo terrorist
February 29th, 2012
4:47 pm
“Romney 2012.” You’re a hoot. I’ll be laughing all the way to President O’s inauguration.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
4:47 pm
Recon — “Joe once again you’re taking it into the legal domain. It can’t be argued and adjudicated on the blog. I was merely stating my personal opinion regarding its merit.”
So was I. You don’t have to play if you don’t want to.
The typo terrorist
February 29th, 2012
4:48 pm
Joe Hussein Mama – that’s what he said
The typo terrorist
February 29th, 2012
4:49 pm
(we were in Utah at the time, and as you well know, the crap there really is holy)
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 29th, 2012
4:49 pm
“Do the Humpty Hump, come on and do the Humpty Hump
Do the Humpty Hump, just watch me do the Humpty Hump”
– Thomas Jefferson
TaxPayer
February 29th, 2012
4:50 pm
Y’all Republicans make sure you don’t forget to add that requirement of not voting for any candidate that allows for any abortion onto that list of disqualifiers. Y’all got to stay pure, doncha know.
By the way, when is conception again for a Republican. Is it right when both of you decide to have sex or is it just when the male decides.
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
February 29th, 2012
4:50 pm
and the moderates continue to bail – David Deier (R) stepping down
drip, drip, the pool gets shallower.
Dreier, a bachelor, was passed over for a GOP leadership position in a controversial decision in 2005 that some observers speculated had to do with questions about his sexuality. Rep. Barney Frank, who is openly gay, was asked if Dreier was passed over because he was too “moderate.”
“Yes, in the sense that I marched in the moderate pride parade last summer and went to a moderate bar,” Frank famously responded,
jewcowboy
February 29th, 2012
4:50 pm
Who here thinks that if a man had to decide between denying woman the choice of abortion and losing their balls, or letting women choose and keeping their balls, the anti-choice movement would whither away?
Billybob
February 29th, 2012
4:50 pm
carlos, 4:29
thanks for enlightening all here as to the real push behind abortion for the radical leftists……..it’s called obama’s science guy holdren arguing for population controls as far back as the 70’s……..it’s not about the individual for the leftists, it’s about the statists controlling the individual……..exposing the dna of radical leftist liberals, who control the dem party and the white house at the moment is not only educating, it’s fun!
Jay,
what was the initial reasoning to start planned parenthood……she’s hillary’s hero and a hero to scores on the left……..why not expose some more as to the real origins of the abortion leftists from the early 1900’s……some might call what hillary’s hero wanted to do a little radical, racist, extremist in nature…….i think we should have these social issue conversations and allow honest people to expose leftists and the media to more and more people…..
Where's Waldo?
February 29th, 2012
4:52 pm
Thulsa Doom seems awful quiet the past few hours. Perhaps the talk of castration has him scared.
Peadawg
February 29th, 2012
4:53 pm
Who here thinks men losing their balls and women killing their unborn babies is even remotely similar?
*crickets*
Brosephus™ -
February 29th, 2012
4:53 pm
Again this bill is proposed legislation you either agree with it or you don’t. I agree with it on the basis for which it was formed.
And I don’t agree with it because those laws need to be left alone. Some people are not content with getting half or even three quarters of what “they” want regardless of what others around them want. Instead of focusing on jobs, ethics, or any other issue that would have positive impact on people looking for work, the Assembly is bogged down with social legislation. That’s not why I voted to send my Rep to the Dome.
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
4:53 pm
The typo terrorist
February 29th, 2012
4:45 pm
Joe Cool – fun game!!! I’ll play. The last time a Republican cared about me, I WAS OFFERING TO GIVE HIM A HANDJOB IN THE TOILET STALL RIGHT NEXT TO MINE.
++++++++++++++++++++++
Brother, I wouldn’ta told THAT………
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://berrymii.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/baby-shocked-face-03-copy.jpg%3Fw%3D400&imgrefurl=http://berrymii.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/weekends-at-tampines-mall/baby-shocked-face-03-copy/&h=413&w=400&sz=61&tbnid=vcS2uqdpEd-8yM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=88&prev=/search%3Fq%3DShocked%2Bface%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=Shocked+face&docid=nS6Wovdwv_FCDM&sa=X&ei=Vp5OT_rDF8auiQKShtGxCw&ved=0CDcQ9QEwBA&dur=1956
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
February 29th, 2012
4:54 pm
typo David Dreier (R)
AmVet - Son of a union thug
February 29th, 2012
4:54 pm
Romney won self-identified Republicans, 47-37 percent. He dominated among people earning more than $100,000 per year and his voters were ideological middle-of-the-roaders: people who think abortion should remain legal in some circumstances, “moderate” supporters of the Tea Party, the “somewhat conservative” in outlook, yada yada, yawn, yawn.
In contrast, Santorum’s voters were a carnival of die-hards: the bitter unemployed, the very religious, ardent prolifers and the fervent Tea Partiers.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/29/opinion/stanley-michigan-primary/index.html?hpt=hp_bn3
Have you ever wondered why Republicans are so interested in encouraging people to volunteer in their communities? It’s because volunteers work for no pay. Republicans have been trying to get people to work for no pay for a long time. ~George Carlin
jewcowboy
February 29th, 2012
4:54 pm
TaxPayer,
“Is it right when both of you decide to have sex or is it just when the male decides”
As Bill Maher said, the modern GOP believes life begins at erection.
Brosephus™ -
February 29th, 2012
4:55 pm
Fred
Great minds!!!
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 29th, 2012
4:56 pm
Fred
http://tinyurl.com/
Just sayin’.
jewcowboy
February 29th, 2012
4:58 pm
Peadawg,
“Who here thinks men losing their balls and women killing their unborn babies is even remotely similar?”
Who thinks that men deciding what a woman can do with her body, is any different from men deciding what a man can do with his body?
My basic premise is, instead of passing laws that limit abortion and punish women, perhaps a better way is to pass laws and create programs that make one want to keep their child, and punish men who don’t help.
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
4:59 pm
Kam: Thank a whole lot. USinUK said something about that but wouldn’t answer when I axed her HOW. Sweet.
Did you watch the USA/Italy game today? (Is it a game or a match in soccer? Or something else lol?)
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
4:59 pm
Peadawg — “Who here thinks men losing their balls and women killing their unborn babies is even remotely similar?”
I’d have to credit that killing was actually taking place as you posit before I could respond to your question.
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
4:59 pm
I bookmmarked that kam BTW……….
TaxPayer
February 29th, 2012
5:00 pm
As Bill Maher said, the modern GOP believes life begins at erection.
For some reason, I thought of this when I saw your comment.
AmVet - Son of a union thug
February 29th, 2012
5:02 pm
Billybob, fill in the following blanks:
American Views on Abortion
Situation Should Be Legal Should Be Illegal
All or Most Cases
To Save Woman’s Life
To Save Woman’s Health
In Cases of Rape/Incest
Physically Impaired Baby
To End Unwanted Pregnancy
D&X/Partial-Birth Abortions
Pregnancy is 6 Months+
They BOTH suck
February 29th, 2012
5:03 pm
BillyBob
If one admires the Founding Fathers, does that make them racist?
Billybob
February 29th, 2012
5:04 pm
carlin and maher quotes show how the leftists are barely hanging on……….and how narrow their ideology is and why conservatism is winning the argument today……and will win the argument all the way to the white house in nov…..enjoy
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 29th, 2012
5:04 pm
No Fred, I didn’t watch the Italy/US match (yes, it’s match). In fact I’m embarrassed that I was unaware of the match, which we won 1-0 on Clint Dempsey’s goal in the 55th minute.