The heartlessness of Ga. anti-abortion bill
NOTE: This is published as the electronic version of today’s AJC column. Portions of this post have appeared earlier on this blog.
Imagine being a happily pregnant couple, 20 weeks along, when things go tragically amiss. Tests reveal that if carried to term, your child will be born without a skull, or perhaps without functioning lungs, which means that upon birth it will begin to die immediately of asphyxiation, with no hope of saving it.
Do you continue the pregnancy, knowing that the child has no chance of survival and that in many cases its “life” will at best consist of a few short hours of intense agony? Or do you end the pregnancy in the best interests of all involved, including that of the doomed fetus?
Some parents, drawing upon their faith and moral precepts, will continue the pregnancy to its tragic end. Others, drawing on their own equally sincere principles, will intervene. It is not a choice that any of us would want to make, and under House Bill 954, approved this week by a House committee, we would not have to. Because if the bill passes, as seems likely, Georgia legislators will have made that decision for every mother in the state.
Under the bill, the legal window in which abortions can be performed in Georgia would shrink from 26 to 20 weeks. Supporters justify the change by claiming that after 20 weeks, fetuses are capable of feeling pain and thus need to be protected, regardless of viability.
There are two major problems here:
1. That legislative threshold of 20 weeks contradicts the overwhelming consensus of the scientific and medical community, which holds that as a fetus develops, the neural connections needed to feel pain do not occur until 28 or 29 weeks. The pain argument is being used to advance an agenda, not to respond to science.
2. The change will do nothing to affect the vast majority of abortions, which is the real target of its sponsors. According to the Guttmacher Institute, 89 percent of abortions are performed in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, long before the proposed law would take effect.
Many of the small fraction of abortions that occur after the proposed 20-week deadline involve what are called “medically futile pregnancies” such as those described above.
As a prominent Atlanta obstetrician told me this week, consider a woman who at 20 weeks discovers that her fetus suffers from anencephaly, which means it’s missing part of its head. The goal of his practice is to see high-risk pregnancies through to a healthy, successful live birth, but sometimes that just isn’t possible.
“The fetus has no skull,” he explained. “I don’t think many of us walk around without a skull. It is not going to survive no matter what you do. We tell the mother what we found, and we let her go through full counseling, grief counseling. And at the end of that, we give her the option of carrying that pregnancy or not.”
Under HB 954, that option would no longer be available.
That fetus will be carried to full term, under the false excuse of sparing it pain, and the result will be a baby “condemned to writhe in agony” as it dies shortly after birth.
(As a condition of the interview, the doctor asked not to be named. He has been advised not to speak publicly out of fear for his personal safety and threats of economic boycott.)
The bill is also certain to force abortions that otherwise will not have occurred, he said.
“I saw a couple at 21 or 22 weeks. They didn’t have health insurance until then because he was transferring jobs, so they hadn’t had the screening. When they came to see me, they were distraught. The fetus had a heart defect, what turned out to have been a fixable heart defect. But we didn’t know that for sure. We had to go through amniocentesis, which takes a week. That brings us up to 22 and a half weeks. Then we had to counsel this family and convince them that this heart defect was fixable. Because we had the time, we were able to walk them through the process and they didn’t terminate.
“If I had seen them at 19 weeks and four days, and this new law gave them just three days to decide, they would have terminated that pregnancy. We told the Legislature that, but these legislators think that’s not going to happen.
“It’s going to happen.”
In more than five hours of hearings this month, legislators have been made aware of these consequences, but they made no substantive changes to the bill.
“From my standpoint, if they wanted to cut off elective terminations — the woman who just decides at 22 weeks, I don’t want this baby — I could live with that,” the doctor told me. “But let the woman who has a complication make rational decisions.”
– Jay Bookman
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709 comments Add your comment
getalife
February 29th, 2012
2:05 pm
Pro life means against abortion, the death penalty, starvation, abuse and war.
cons are not pro life.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
2:06 pm
Bruno — “So, if a child in utero is not “human”, what is it??”
It’s not a *child* at all. It’s a fetus. I’m pretty sure they taught you that at medical school, didn’t they?
“This has nothing to do with whatever legal rights the rest of us decide to confer or not confer. It is a question of biology.”
No, it’s a question of your personal opinion. Again, I respect your opinion, but I don’t share it.
“A baby = a tumor?? Is that your final answer??”
I neither said nor thought any such thing.
Is it to be your methodology, then, to misstate and misrepresent polite responses I provide to your queries?
TaxPayer
February 29th, 2012
2:06 pm
Republicans grew tired of pretending to merely be the voice of God. Now they all want to be Blankfeins and do God’s work for him. Isn’t that thoughtful. And they’re even willing to do it all taxed-free.
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
2:07 pm
“Because I self-insure, I only pay for myself. Pretty radical concept, eh??”
then why bring it up? If your insurance is not paying for abortions, by what other mechanism do you THINK you ARE paying for them?
Simple Truths
February 29th, 2012
2:08 pm
I predict shrapnel everywhere from this blog entry.
Jay, how many seconds did you count after pulling the pin before throwing this grenade? Standard procedure says three.
stands for decibels
February 29th, 2012
2:09 pm
It’s a fetus. I’m pretty sure they taught you that at medical school, didn’t they?
actually throughout the first trimester it’s an embryo; kind of annoys me when people deliberately use the term “fetus” in order to conjure images of more fully-formed, and potentially sentient, life.
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
2:09 pm
“The state can bestow that right on any citizen. It’s called Jury Duty.”
And juries are given the FACTS in the case with which to make their decision. So I ask you again: what give YOU THE RIGHT to judge a woman WITHOUT THE FACTS of her situation?
saywhat?
February 29th, 2012
2:13 pm
“Because I self-insure, I only pay for myself. Pretty radical concept, eh??”
____________________________________________________
If by “self-insure” you mean you have a large pool of money against which you draw health care payments as needed, well good for you, as that is not an option for most people.
If however, by “self insure” you mean you buy an individual policy, perhaps you fail to realize that your policy is pooled with other self-insureds, and payments are made out to others from that pool.In that case, you are most likely paying for abortions.
Normal
February 29th, 2012
2:14 pm
Jason
February 29th, 2012
1:44 pm
Then you are surely a liberal…
————————————
Carlos,
Between you and me and my views only, I do there is a “God”, Too much evidence to the contrary…for me at least. But, I don’t believe in “Religions”…man contrived and therefore no more than social gatherings at best and wicked cults at worst.
To me, God is a scorekeeper. If you have more “Yea” tics than “Boo” tics on your score sheet, then you pass on the the next level…whatever that is.
But man has no business getting into God’s business. Even the Bible says that…but the religious folk just automatically seem to think they know better than God. I think their score sheet has more “boo” tics, if I were to guess…
philosopher
February 29th, 2012
2:15 pm
Jason
February 29th, 2012
1:44 pm
LIberals…No discipline, no morals, no ethics, ….No class.
Oh, yeah…telling other people how they should live their lives is so classy! And refusing to understand that contraceptives are not 100% effective (i.e. gross ignorance) is so classy! And expecting us to believe you have never had sex unless you were totally committed to having as many children as that act MIGHT produce is so classy. And calling anyone immoral who has an opinion that differs from yours is so very, very classy!
Bruno
February 29th, 2012
2:16 pm
actually throughout the first trimester it’s an embryo; kind of annoys me when people deliberately use the term “fetus” in order to conjure images of more fully-formed, and potentially sentient, life.
Embryos and feti are at all times human beings. You guys need to seriously brush up on your set theory. And your humanity.
Is it to be your methodology, then, to misstate and misrepresent polite responses I provide to your queries?
Polite, but stupid.
Jm
February 29th, 2012
2:16 pm
The Obama administration is implementing a new auto rule that costs $1.9 billion per year. It will provide benefits of $0.2 billion per year.
These democrat morons are insane. And they have the perverse insanity to argue that it is a win win.
Obama people are idiots.
JohnnyReb
February 29th, 2012
2:16 pm
Doggone – Rockerbabe posted that women with children know exactly what they are doing when getting an abortion. I asked, if they know exactly what they are doing, how did they get pregnant with a baby they don’t want? Now, that’s a perfectly understandable question to the assertion they know what they are doing.
Separately, I posted agreement in full with Jay’s article. But no, that’s not good enough for you. Because JohnnyReb is a Conservative, anything and everything he posts must be wrong.
I stand by my original question.
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
2:16 pm
“So, if a child in utero is not “human”, what is it??”
It is a fetus, not a child.
The devil
February 29th, 2012
2:17 pm
Bruno – “You guys need to seriously brush up on your set theory. And your humanity.”
Kettle calling the pot black?
GT
February 29th, 2012
2:17 pm
The luxury of time on one’s hands make bills like this a priority. In these hard times we can feel the pressing importance of this sort when we have a state of world class unemployment, illiteracy and poverty, that could use some small amount of the legislature’s time is a sin of wasted energy at best. It is like my church with a mountain of sinners and needy spending valuable resources on a debate about gays. The house is on fire and you are worried about over cooking the cake in the oven.
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
2:18 pm
” I asked, if they know exactly what they are doing, how did they get pregnant with a baby they don’t want?”
And I ask you again: what gives you the right to judge them without knowing the facts of their situation?
JohnnyReb
February 29th, 2012
2:18 pm
getalife
February 29th, 2012
2:05 pm
Pro life means against abortion, the death penalty, starvation, abuse and war.
cons are not pro life.
____________________________
Have to throw the foul flag on that one. Being pro life is confined to being against abortion. The term pro life is NOT tied to death penalty, starvation, abuse and war. Where did the “starvation” come from? Please don’t tell me it is because were are against food stamps?
Finn McCool
February 29th, 2012
2:20 pm
Jay, how is your email inbox looking today after this subject?
Very good write-up tha puts it into perspective.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
2:21 pm
Bruno — “Embryos and feti are at all times human beings. You guys need to seriously brush up on your set theory. And your humanity.”
If you want a philosophical discussion, then *ask* for one. You specifically asked “(b)y what perspective of biology” I could deny your assertion. I answered on that basis.
“Polite, but stupid.”
I’ll take that as a yes, that you do intend to misstate and misrepresent my polite responses. And that you don’t plan to be polite yourself, but intend to stoop to personal insults.
Well done, Bruno. I become less and less impressed with you at each of our exchanges.
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
2:21 pm
It just don’t get any more ironical. The pro abortion crowd who just loves they abortions telling the pro life crowd that they are heartless towards babies. This is more priceless than a Mastercard moment.
JohnnyReb
February 29th, 2012
2:23 pm
Doggone – OK, for the last time. If they are having an abortion of convenience or for social reasons, etc., not due to health reasons of the mother or fetus, then how in the heck does the fact they have
children explain how they got pregnant with a baby they don’t want?
As far as judging, almost everyone does it everyday. You know, when you judge Conservatives are wrong.
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
2:24 pm
“Being pro life is confined to being against abortion”
Nope. Life is life.
Bruno
February 29th, 2012
2:24 pm
Gotta run, back in a while to answer the Lamers.
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
2:25 pm
“I’ll take that as a yes, that you do intend to misstate and misrepresent my polite responses.”
Oh lawdy, there goes Joe again. Anytime he can’t win a debate he comes with the you misstatement and misrepresentation accusations. Next we’re going to see the you’re being dishonest card.
“And that you don’t plan to be polite yourself, but intend to stoop to personal insults.”
Sez the (pointing, laughing) guy.
The Anti-Wooten
February 29th, 2012
2:25 pm
Thulsa Dumb,
Approximately 0% of people are “pro-abortion”. Your Georgia education is shining through.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
2:25 pm
JohnnyReb — “As far as judging, almost everyone does it everyday. You know, when you judge Conservatives are wrong.”
If you’re a Christian, aren’t you directed not to judge others?
saywhat?
February 29th, 2012
2:25 pm
“Well done, Bruno. I become less and less impressed with you at each of our exchanges.”
_______________________________________________________________
Maybe you are a slow learner? It didn’t take me very long at all. OOps, its time to take my embryo out to play in the park. I must to remember to staple it to the swing so it doesn’t fall off.
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
2:27 pm
A fetus is not a child? Who knew?
JohnnyReb
February 29th, 2012
2:27 pm
The thought on the Right is, Obama has abandoned the abortion card in favor of the familiar contraception issue. He or his lacky planted the seed with George Steffie who used it for the first time when interviewing Romney on the Sunday show. Romney was surprised and asked George why he was being asked about Contraceptives. Romney found out later. The rest is history. And, the only reason we are discussin abortion today instead of another round on Contraception is, the GA legislature is showing all how they can sometimes badly judge what they should be working.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
2:28 pm
Doom — “Oh lawdy, there goes Joe again. Anytime he can’t win a debate he comes with the you misstatement and misrepresentation accusations. Next we’re going to see the you’re being dishonest card.”
I’ve been polite and forthcoming with Bruno on this thread, and he has most certainly misstated and misrepresented my position. I asked him if that’s how he planned to proceed with this discussion, and he responded with an insult.
I’m not sure how you feel about that sort of discussion — maybe you like it — but if he wants a polite and productive conversation, I don’t think that’s the way to go about it.
(ir)Rational
February 29th, 2012
2:28 pm
JohnnyReb – Your phrasing makes almost no sense to me. But I think you’re asking if they’re smart enough to decide they should get an abortion, why weren’t they smart enough to not get pregnant in the first place? Well, I’m going to put this as simply as I can. Accidents happen. Birth control isn’t effective 100% of the time. Does that explain anything to you?
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
2:28 pm
The Anti-Wooten.
Oh. Otay. So the term “pro-choice” sanitizes the practice of abortion. Gotcha. Feel better now genius?
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
2:28 pm
“The pro abortion crowd ”
I haven’t seen any pro-abortion crowd here, are you sure you don’t have this mixed up with some other blog you are reading?
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
2:28 pm
Saywhat — “Maybe you are a slow learner? It didn’t take me very long at all.”
Perhaps I’m just more charitable towards others than you are.
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
2:29 pm
“then how in the heck does the fact they have children explain how they got pregnant with a baby they don’t want?”
That is one of the FACTS you DON’T KNOW. Yet you presume to judge anyway.
Oscar
February 29th, 2012
2:30 pm
Sperm and eggs are alive before they get together. Does that make them each half-human.
When an embryo becomes a human is a matter of opinion. General rule of a democratic republic is for the elected reps to vote on what they think is right, and pass a law. Does not mean the law is right, just the majority view.
(ir)Rational
February 29th, 2012
2:31 pm
Thulsa – No one is arguing “for” abortions. We’re arguing that the state shouldn’t have the power to take the right away from a woman to choose for herself. Hence, “pro-choice.” The other side, your side if you will, of this argument conveniently mid-labels themselves in an attempt to make everyone who opposes them seem like horrible people. You’re not “pro-life,” you’re “anti-choice” and “pro-big-government.”
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
2:32 pm
“A fetus is not a child? Who knew?”
Quite a few people know. Just because you aren’t one of them doesn’t mean NO ONE knows.
carlosgvv
February 29th, 2012
2:32 pm
About 15 to 20% of known pregnacies end in natural miscarrage. All of you religious true believers think God is omnipotent and omniscient. This means your “God of love” knows about all these natural abortions and does NOTHING to stop them. And yet, if a woman elects to have an abortion, you call it murder. So, people are guilty of murder and God is love for doing the same thing. And you wonder why so many sensible people have nothing but contempt for you.
josef
February 29th, 2012
2:33 pm
It’s nice we’re having weather.
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
2:34 pm
“When an embryo becomes a human is a matter of opinion”
to some extent, yes…but I can tell you absolutely when it is a human being without question: when it takes it’s first breath. Because at that point it is irrevocably separate from the woman who bore and there is no going back.
Oscar
February 29th, 2012
2:34 pm
If a fetus was a child they would call it a child, not a fetus.
(ir)Rational
February 29th, 2012
2:35 pm
Doggone – You mean you can’t push them back in if you’re not ready yet? Man, I KNEW there was some reason I was holding off.
Oscar
February 29th, 2012
2:35 pm
Doggone/GA
____
You mean you can’t stuff them back inside if your busy and the crib is not ready yet.
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
2:35 pm
“You mean you can’t push them back in if you’re not ready yet?”
Only if they haven’t used those lungs yet!
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 29th, 2012
2:36 pm
Question for Bruno:
If this happens, was it an abortion?
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2346476&page=1
Just so you know, I have personal knowledge of someone who had this situation. 21 pounds when they finally figured it out.
Talk about “potential for human life”….
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
2:36 pm
Oscar — “You mean you can’t stuff them back inside if your busy and the crib is not ready yet.”
I believe that the woman involved would object MOST vociferously if you tried that.
The Anti-Wooten
February 29th, 2012
2:37 pm
To each of the rightwing nutbars here and elsewhere that would choose to remove a woman’s rights to privacy and self determination I have a question.
If you’re so “prolife” for these zygotes when are you going to stand in line to offer to adopt and care for them once women are forced to carry to term? Stand up and practice what you preach or shut up. Especially all of you men. You should not even have an opinion or a vote.
(ir)Rational
February 29th, 2012
2:38 pm
JHM – Them wimmens get in the way of all the good stuffs. They’re a big bunch of bullies.
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
2:38 pm
ByteMe – I can’t remember the scientific name for it, but there are also situations where a tumor contains things like developed teeth or hair. I knew someone whose horse had a tumor removed from it’s leg, and there were a couple of fully formed teeth in it.
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
2:38 pm
“I don’t credit that a *fetus* in utero is human until it is *a physically separate individual.* “IOW, not until the mother has given birth and the umbilicus has been cut.”
Joe Mama,
Well then we should then just be able to abort babies at 8 3/4 months of development. After all according to you its not human until its a physically separate entity from its mother- “IOW, not until the mother has given birth and the umbilicus has been cut.”
JohnnyReb
February 29th, 2012
2:39 pm
re, judging. OK, the bible states something along the line that not to judge else you be judged. You scholars can correct that at will, please.
The point is, everyone judges. The Left has judged a woman has the right to get an abortion without legal consequences. The Left has juded the Right wrong.
It is really common sense, which I must state the Left often exhibits a lack of, that Conservatives have every right to judge abortion as wrong. To state otherwise is very hypocritical. Just because you disagree does not mean some kind of mortal sin has occured because we judge abortion wrong.
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
2:39 pm
” once women are forced to carry to term? ”
Heck, I’m still waiting for one of them, any of them, to tell us how they will FORCE a woman to carry her pregnancy to term!
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
2:40 pm
“Well then we should then just be able to abort babies at 8 3/4 months of development”
Nope. that’s not an abortion. It’s an enduced delivery.
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
2:41 pm
sorry! “induced delivery”
JohnnyReb
February 29th, 2012
2:41 pm
As to what “pro life” means, I stick by my post. When Doggone, getalife, and others get their own officially accepted disctonary that has been accepted as changing the meaning of the term, pro life is connected only to right of life/abortion, not capital punishment, etc. Google it for yourself.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
2:41 pm
Doom — “Well then we should then just be able to abort babies at 8 3/4 months of development. After all according to you its not human until its a physically separate entity from its mother- “IOW, not until the mother has given birth and the umbilicus has been cut.”
If you say so. Those are your words, not mine.
(ir)Rational
February 29th, 2012
2:41 pm
Thulsa – How about a simpler designation that takes away your hypothetical. That point at which the fetus is able to survive outside of the mother’s uterus. The point where if a woman went into labor and had a premature baby, the doctors would be concerned, but fairly certain they had a reasonable chance of allowing that child to both live and have a normal life.
Gator Joe
February 29th, 2012
2:42 pm
Jay:
The politicians behind this bill, and the so-called Christians supporting them, are opposed to abortion. I’ll bet the farm they’re ok with the death penalty and wars like the Iraq war. Same bet for their support of cuts in, or elimination of, welfare, foodstamp, and healthcare for children
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
2:42 pm
“pro life ”
pro mean FOR
Life meand LIFE
pro life means FOR LIFE
Funny, I don’t see the word abortion in there anywhere
Life is life
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
2:43 pm
JohnnyReb — “their own officially accepted disctonary that has been accepted as changing the meaning of the term, pro life is connected only to right of life/abortion, not capital punishment, etc.”
No, I think we’ll use it in the way we see fit. If you don’t like it, then you can sic the dictionary police on us.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 29th, 2012
2:44 pm
Well, this is a good start. After we put a stop to abortion we plan on working to lock up the women that ain’t married and are with child. And maybe slap 10 years on the married women that try and have an abortion. After that we can work on getting a guvmint camera in the bedroom so we can make sure people are doing You Know What right and ain’t doing some kind of preversion. Sooner or later we’ll get what we want. We’d have it already if it wasn’t for the Activist Courts.
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
2:44 pm
“If you’re so “prolife” for these zygotes when are you going to stand in line to offer to adopt and care for them once women are forced to carry to term? Stand up and practice what you preach or shut up. Especially all of you men. You should not even have an opinion or a vote.”
Aaaaaah yeah. Hell yeah. Ya just knew it was coming. The responsibility shift card. So they move the goalposts from the central question of whether or not abortion is the killing of a human life to a different question of who should care for a child. So going by anti-wooten’s logic if you believe abortion is wrong you should then have to pay to care for that unwanted child. Not the mother or father mind you. But people who just happen to believe abortion is wrong should foot the bill. Simpleton logic at its worst.
Where did anti-wooten get his education? The Michael Moore institute of left wing kookery?
Libertarian
February 29th, 2012
2:44 pm
“Being pro life is confined to being against abortion”
Nope. Life is life.”
Ok then, so if you’re “pro choice” does that mean you’re pro choice in everything? So, should I be able to choose whether or not I buy health insurance? Should I, as an employer, be able to choose what type of health insurance I provide to my employees? Should I be able to choose whether to carry a firearm? Or where I should be able to carry it?
(ir)Rational
February 29th, 2012
2:44 pm
Doggone – See my 2:31 (?) – They’re not “pro-life” they’re “anti-choice” and “pro-big-government.”
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 29th, 2012
2:45 pm
The pro-fetus crowd doesn’t want to touch this?
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2346476&page=1
Was it an abortion or no? C’mon, let’s hear your opinions. Did it have the “potential for life” that you claim is so important to restricting choices for women?
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
2:46 pm
IR – “That point at which the fetus is able to survive outside of the mother’s uterus”
I try to be a bit more specific – to shortcircuit the “what about technology” argument. I say “when the foetus is at the developmental stage where it could reasonably be expected to survive if normal” If it is not normal, it is still at the STAGE where it could be expected to survive if it was normal. Or, to be more specifc, it is ENTITLED to the technolgy we have to keep it alive once it’s born.
Before that point – and there IS a point where we cannot keep a foetus alive no matter what – if the parents choose to have technology used, that is their decision.
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
2:46 pm
Redneck Convert,
Sometimes your parody is actually somewhat funny. Your post above is just plain stupid.
The Anti-Wooten Ex Union Thug
February 29th, 2012
2:46 pm
Nice to see the stampede ready to pick up the reins and lie by saying “sure, I’d be happy to adopt and raise a child rather than allow an abortion”. Because we’re all aware including those that argue so vehemently against a woman’s rights to privacy and self determination don’t actually care about the child the simply want to impose their will on someone else.
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 29th, 2012
2:47 pm
So, should I be able to choose whether or not I buy health insurance?
Yes, provided we can also do away with the law that says hospitals must treat you even if you can’t pay for it. If you aren’t good with doing away with that law — and the majority of people are not — then you gotta have insurance to cover yourself.
JohnnyReb
February 29th, 2012
2:48 pm
JoeMama – you want to twist the term for political purposes. I’m not surprised you and other Moonbats here cannot distinguish the clear difference between protecting the unborn versus taking the life of a convicted criminal.. Ther we go agin, back to that common sense.
Kamchak ~ Thug from the Steppes
February 29th, 2012
2:49 pm
Sometimes your parody is actually somewhat funny. Your post above is just plain stupid.
I loves me some irony in the afternoon.
(ir)Rational
February 29th, 2012
2:49 pm
Thulsa – Do you agree that accidents happen? That birth control isn’t effective 100% of the time? Why should a 14 year old (who admittedly shouldn’t be having sex) who gets pregnant have her life ruined, because YOU have decided it is wrong (by your moral code, not hers) to get an abortion?
It isn’t simpleton logic to say, if you think abortion is wrong, then you need to put your money where your mouth is. You think its wrong, you pay for the children that would have otherwise been aborted. Well, maybe it is simple logic. But not faulty. Also, as Doggone asked, just exactly how are you going to force a woman to carry her child full term?
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
2:49 pm
“Ok then, so if you’re “pro choice” does that mean you’re pro choice in everything?”
No, not everything. You don’t have the right to choose to arbitrarily kill someone else.
” So, should I be able to choose whether or not I buy health insurance?”
Yes, but you should be required to sign a waiver that states under no circumstances will you seek health assitance without being able to pay for it. You choose No, you’re on your own buddy.
” Should I, as an employer, be able to choose what type of health insurance I provide to my employees?”
Yes, but don’t be surprised if you end up with no employees. If you’ve already contracted with them to provide a certain level of insurance, then no you don’t have the right to arbitrarily change those terms.
” Should I be able to choose whether to carry a firearm? Or where I should be able to carry it?”
Yes, and yes. Just out of curiosity, what do firearms have to do with it?
The Anti-Wooten Ex Union Thug
February 29th, 2012
2:50 pm
And Thulsa Dumb doubles down on ignorance, misogyny and religious superstition. Adopt or not Thulsa Dumb?
TaxPayer
February 29th, 2012
2:51 pm
Yes it is nice to have weather. Life without weather could be lifeless. I cannot even conceive of it.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
2:51 pm
Doom — “So going by anti-wooten’s logic if you believe abortion is wrong you should then have to pay to care for that unwanted child. Not the mother or father mind you. But people who just happen to believe abortion is wrong should foot the bill.”
If a woman or couple don’t believe that they could — for whatever reason — provide for a child, then why should she carry a fetus to term?
You might argue that the child could be adopted, but there’s no guarantee of that. Each year, there are around 100K-150K adoptable children who, for whatever reason, don’t get adopted. Clearly there are more available American children than there are American families able and willing to adopt them.
Given that, how is it responsible to carry a fetus to term under those circumstances, if you don’t believe you can adequately provide for a child?
Libertarian
February 29th, 2012
2:51 pm
ByteMe – Liberal Thug
February 29th, 2012
2:47 pm
I am 100% good with doing away with that law. Its the whiny liberals who think everyone should get treatment
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
2:52 pm
“They’re not “pro-life” they’re “anti-choice” and “pro-big-government.”
Yep, I know that…
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
2:53 pm
JohnnyReb — “JoeMama – you want to twist the term for political purposes.”
Nope. I want to deny *you* the use of it for *your* political purposes.
“I’m not surprised you and other Moonbats here cannot distinguish the clear difference between protecting the unborn versus taking the life of a convicted criminal.”
Life is life.
“Ther we go agin, back to that common sense.”
When you’re pro-all life, then we will relent.
(ir)Rational
February 29th, 2012
2:53 pm
ByteMe – Man, that is SICK. But pretty freakin interesting.
Kam – Yeah, irony is best in the afternoon. Early evening is the next best time.
Thulsa Doom
February 29th, 2012
2:53 pm
“when the foetus is at the developmental stage where it could reasonably be expected to survive if normal”
Aaaaaah. So now the goalpost has just been moved to “the stage of life”, you know, that arbitrary and capricious point that we feel less guilty about- That point where the fetus can then “reasonably surive on its own”.
Bob
February 29th, 2012
2:54 pm
That right Peadwag, parents are supposed to predict at least 20 years into the future if they will have full employment and/or enough financial support for another child and will NEVER be between jobs or never be unemployed/underemployed before planning a pregnancy. If they aren’t clairvoyant enough to do that then they truly are irresponsible, right?
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 29th, 2012
2:55 pm
Its the whiny liberals who think everyone should get treatment
Nah. It’s the “pro-life” crowd. Learn to know who’s for what.
Ernest T. Bass
February 29th, 2012
2:55 pm
I am 100% good with doing away with that law. Its the whiny liberals who think everyone should get treatment
Yes how dare they get treatment. Really, I think the only people who should get treatment are the super rich. Everyone else should have to just fend for themselves.
If you don’t like it then tough.
“Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”
….. Unless they are poor.
(ir)Rational
February 29th, 2012
2:56 pm
Thulsa – So you are now advocating having a fetus removed from the mother and hooked up to mechanical equipment and monitors for the rest of its life? Once again, I guess if you’re willing to pay, then go right ahead and advocate that.
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 29th, 2012
2:57 pm
Man, that is SICK. But pretty freakin interesting.
It is both, yes.
But is it also abortion? I notice the pro-crazy here are not answering that question the same as they’re not answering the “who is going to go to jail for doing an abortion?” question. Chickenhawks.
Ernest T. Bass
February 29th, 2012
2:57 pm
taking the life of a convicted criminal.”
Innocent people are put to death all the time. We have done it many many times in this country.
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
2:58 pm
Bob
February 29th, 2012
2:54 pm
That right Peadwag, parents are supposed to predict at least 20 years into the future if they will have full employment and/or enough financial support for another child and will NEVER be between jobs or never be unemployed/underemployed before planning a pregnancy. If they aren’t clairvoyant enough to do that then they truly are irresponsible, right?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That is one of the denser things posted today. There is no way you honestly read that stupid stuff you posted in Peadawg’s post because he didn’t say anything even remotely like that.
Why don’t you try debating him on what he actually said and not some stupid made up crap like that. Surely you can do that……..
carlosgvv
February 29th, 2012
2:59 pm
Doom – 2:44
Wooten is just trying to get you and your ilk to put your money where your VERY LOUD and meddling voice is. Needless to say, it’s clear that will never happen. You’re all mouth when it comes to being “pro life”, but, when your money is involved, you turn tail and run like frightened rabbits.
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 29th, 2012
2:59 pm
Innocent people are put to death all the time. We have done it many many times in this country.
And pretty often in Texas, too!
TaxPayer
February 29th, 2012
2:59 pm
Republicans give the term “biological clock” a whole new meaning.
“I’m so sorry,” proclaimed the Republican bedroom police, “but according to my records, you missed the cutoff for an abortion by just over two hours and fifteen minutes.”
Oscar
February 29th, 2012
3:00 pm
How about rape. That was not the women’s choice. Should she be forced to have a baby and care for it. I don’t think so.
Peadawg
February 29th, 2012
3:00 pm
Bob
February 29th, 2012
2:54 pm
Your rant makes no sense. I’m not going to refute something I never said.
Go back and read, son.
TaxPayer
February 29th, 2012
3:00 pm
Rabbits! Did someone say, Rabbits!
Ernest T. Bass
February 29th, 2012
3:00 pm
Trust me on this too.
Half the nut jobs in here railing about abortions would change their tune pretty quick if their 14 year old daughter got pregnant.
It happens every day in white suburbia. Its just real hush hush.
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 29th, 2012
3:02 pm
Doggone: here’s the technical stuff on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus_in_fetu
Note that it says that the fetus “is alive”.
Ernest T. Bass
February 29th, 2012
3:02 pm
How about rape. That was not the women’s choice. Should she be forced to have a baby and care for it. I don’t think so.
Of course she should.
Life is Life.
AmVet - Son of a union thug
February 29th, 2012
3:02 pm
The pro-death crowd feigning to be pro-life.
Good stuff.