The heartlessness of Ga. anti-abortion bill
NOTE: This is published as the electronic version of today’s AJC column. Portions of this post have appeared earlier on this blog.
Imagine being a happily pregnant couple, 20 weeks along, when things go tragically amiss. Tests reveal that if carried to term, your child will be born without a skull, or perhaps without functioning lungs, which means that upon birth it will begin to die immediately of asphyxiation, with no hope of saving it.
Do you continue the pregnancy, knowing that the child has no chance of survival and that in many cases its “life” will at best consist of a few short hours of intense agony? Or do you end the pregnancy in the best interests of all involved, including that of the doomed fetus?
Some parents, drawing upon their faith and moral precepts, will continue the pregnancy to its tragic end. Others, drawing on their own equally sincere principles, will intervene. It is not a choice that any of us would want to make, and under House Bill 954, approved this week by a House committee, we would not have to. Because if the bill passes, as seems likely, Georgia legislators will have made that decision for every mother in the state.
Under the bill, the legal window in which abortions can be performed in Georgia would shrink from 26 to 20 weeks. Supporters justify the change by claiming that after 20 weeks, fetuses are capable of feeling pain and thus need to be protected, regardless of viability.
There are two major problems here:
1. That legislative threshold of 20 weeks contradicts the overwhelming consensus of the scientific and medical community, which holds that as a fetus develops, the neural connections needed to feel pain do not occur until 28 or 29 weeks. The pain argument is being used to advance an agenda, not to respond to science.
2. The change will do nothing to affect the vast majority of abortions, which is the real target of its sponsors. According to the Guttmacher Institute, 89 percent of abortions are performed in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, long before the proposed law would take effect.
Many of the small fraction of abortions that occur after the proposed 20-week deadline involve what are called “medically futile pregnancies” such as those described above.
As a prominent Atlanta obstetrician told me this week, consider a woman who at 20 weeks discovers that her fetus suffers from anencephaly, which means it’s missing part of its head. The goal of his practice is to see high-risk pregnancies through to a healthy, successful live birth, but sometimes that just isn’t possible.
“The fetus has no skull,” he explained. “I don’t think many of us walk around without a skull. It is not going to survive no matter what you do. We tell the mother what we found, and we let her go through full counseling, grief counseling. And at the end of that, we give her the option of carrying that pregnancy or not.”
Under HB 954, that option would no longer be available.
That fetus will be carried to full term, under the false excuse of sparing it pain, and the result will be a baby “condemned to writhe in agony” as it dies shortly after birth.
(As a condition of the interview, the doctor asked not to be named. He has been advised not to speak publicly out of fear for his personal safety and threats of economic boycott.)
The bill is also certain to force abortions that otherwise will not have occurred, he said.
“I saw a couple at 21 or 22 weeks. They didn’t have health insurance until then because he was transferring jobs, so they hadn’t had the screening. When they came to see me, they were distraught. The fetus had a heart defect, what turned out to have been a fixable heart defect. But we didn’t know that for sure. We had to go through amniocentesis, which takes a week. That brings us up to 22 and a half weeks. Then we had to counsel this family and convince them that this heart defect was fixable. Because we had the time, we were able to walk them through the process and they didn’t terminate.
“If I had seen them at 19 weeks and four days, and this new law gave them just three days to decide, they would have terminated that pregnancy. We told the Legislature that, but these legislators think that’s not going to happen.
“It’s going to happen.”
In more than five hours of hearings this month, legislators have been made aware of these consequences, but they made no substantive changes to the bill.
“From my standpoint, if they wanted to cut off elective terminations — the woman who just decides at 22 weeks, I don’t want this baby — I could live with that,” the doctor told me. “But let the woman who has a complication make rational decisions.”
– Jay Bookman
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709 comments Add your comment
Aquagirl
February 29th, 2012
12:39 pm
Who was “irresponsible” in this case?
Marxist-lib’rul DEMONCRATS. And Obama, of course.
Peadawg
February 29th, 2012
12:41 pm
“Marxist-lib’rul DEMONCRATS. And Obama, of course.”
What does Obama have to do with anything in this article?
Rick
February 29th, 2012
12:43 pm
“From my standpoint, if they wanted to cut off elective terminations — the woman who just decides at 22 weeks, I don’t want this baby — I could live with that,” the doctor told me. “But let the woman who has a complication make rational decisions.”
Seriously if they want a bill like this, why can they not just do this scenario? Or increase it to 28 or 29 weeks if they want to use the pain argument. It’s such a joke that our legislature is wasting time with bills like this and free In God We Trust stickers on license plates while ethics reform gets thrown aside.
Rockerbabe
February 29th, 2012
12:43 pm
60% of all abortions are procurred by women who have at least one child; they know exactly what they are doing.
85% of all abortions take place before the 12th week of pregnancy. The rest are 2nd and 3rd trimester abortion done usually for medical issues.
15% of all pregnancies carried past the 20th week of gestation end up as miscarriages or stillbirths; this varies slightly depending on the population of women studied. These figures have held for 30+ years.
NONE of this pregnancy business, is the business of an member of the GA legislature. They have proven over and over again, that when it comes to women and their needs, the GA legislature has women and their families on the back burner.
Bruno
February 29th, 2012
12:43 pm
From below:
I’d like to hear yours of Obama (if you can be objective).
Fred–I don’t have a lot of time to develop an in-depth essay right now, but here are a few thoughts off the top of my head:
For starters, I think Obama walked into one of the worst situations any recent President faced. The economy was in the tank, and likely would have grown worse no matter who was in office. However, I believe that his response–to simply throw enormous amounts of money at the problem–has set us back even farther, much farther. Certainly he was under a lot of pressure to act, but sometimes the best course of action is to take no action at all and allow things to right themselves.
In terms of the specific legislation that he and the Dems forced upon us the first two years, definite overreach at every turn. While a few unfair practices by the insurance companies needed to be addressed, forcing everyone to purchase over-priced health insurance isn’t going to bring down costs at all. Ditto for the banking/credit card legislation. All of the bills are loaded with “Unintended Consequences”, which I think points back to his lack of experience both legislatively and business-wise.
Finally, a large part of being a leader is promoting the morale of the troops. In this regard, I think Obama is an abject failure. Continually blaming the person before you does nothing to inspire people. Though the Lefties don’t notice so much because he’s constantly preaching to the choir, Obama comes across in a divisive way to the rest of us.
Just my opinion, of course……
JOE COOL~THUGGin' On CONs
February 29th, 2012
12:44 pm
Everybody a THUG today….guess i might as well switch it up too.
getalife
February 29th, 2012
12:45 pm
The Americans held in Egypt are coming home.
North Korea suspends nuclear .
Hillary is ending her career with wins.
philosopher
February 29th, 2012
12:45 pm
Yup-
Let’s keep women pregnant and barefoot, in the kitchen “seeing to the men”. Let’s not do something “dangerous” like allowing higher education, and see if we can drive this country back to the 1800’s…preferably BEFORE the civil war. Yup- let’s keep the majority pregnant and stoopid so a few can live high on the hog without the riffraff questioning a perfectly agreeable way of life.
But, oops, too many folks are educated now, so that won’t work. Well, then, let’s use GOD as a weapon to keep those uppity women in their places..yup-that one just might work!
Talking Head
February 29th, 2012
12:48 pm
“Seriously if they want a bill like this, why can they not just do this scenario? Or increase it to 28 or 29 weeks if they want to use the pain argument. It’s such a joke that our legislature is wasting time with bills like this and free In God We Trust stickers on license plates while ethics reform gets thrown aside.”
Agreed. Almost every bill is originated by lobbyists, and these lobbyists shower gifts to our representatives and senators. I like the idea of ethics reform, however I feel that it’s not the real solution to the real problem. The real problem is that government and business are too intertwined with one another. This has resulted in the convoluted tax code and subsidies. When we start to address the overly complicated and inefficient tax code along with the government giving subsidies to some companies over the others, we will see real solutions.
St Simons- island off the coast of New Somalia
February 29th, 2012
12:51 pm
They know EXACTLY what they’re doing trying to set it at 20 weeks-
sneaky craven pandering hypocritical bible thumping scum
well, i know one hosp administrator that is going to ignore this craven
pandering f-%^& bible thumper crap and adhere to the science, They
can just come get her. And boy do i pity them if they do, trust me.
Tommy Maddox
February 29th, 2012
12:52 pm
getalife – The North Korean Army is out of food again. This is an annual event.
stands for decibels
February 29th, 2012
12:52 pm
I believe that his response–to simply throw enormous amounts of money at the problem
I love how an ~800 billion dollar Recovery Act, brought to bear upon a 14.5 trillion dollar economy on the verge of collapse, becomes an “enormous amount of money”.
Is there any scenario in your mind that would have a President McCain NOT allocating funds on a similar scale–whether to capitalize specific projects or simply in the form of tax cuts and credits, in or around early 2009?
Keep Up--Te gusta losing woofinpoofs?
February 29th, 2012
12:52 pm
Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback (R) indicated that he is likely to sign the state’s sweeping anti-abortion bill, which includes a provision that would allow doctors to withhold information from patients. Brownback, speaking … following the National Governors Association meeting, said that while he has not read the 69-page bill, he is likely to sign the proposal since he opposes abortion rights.
Well I guess Nancy was wrong….even if they have the bill to know what the last version finally says, you cannot force them to actually read it before they determine their likely action.
Oh, dang, I forgot… Mighty Righty, don’t read this…it might actually challenge what you “know to be true” despite this evidence [and plenty of other evidence] to the contrary.
Tommy Maddox
February 29th, 2012
12:53 pm
Oh – and the Egyptian Army wants it’s annual $1 Bil installment.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
12:56 pm
T Maddox — “The North Korean Army is out of food again. This is an annual event.”
They can smell the thousands of MREs being opened each day across the border now that Team Spirit is under way.
Bernie
February 29th, 2012
12:56 pm
Ladies and Gentlemen this Law is brought you by the Republican Party. The Party that professes undying alligence to smaller and less intrusive government, Freedom and the pursuit of happpiness.
Disclaimer : Excluding all minorities, gays & lesbians and those of the female gender they do not count nor are they welcome.
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 29th, 2012
1:04 pm
JOE COOL: welcome to Thugland.
Jm
February 29th, 2012
1:05 pm
Putting aside jay’s arguments, I see no need for this bill.
If fetus’s are protected in the third trimester, that seems very sensible to me.
JOE COOL~THUGGin' On CONs
February 29th, 2012
1:07 pm
“JOE COOL: welcome to Thugland.”
Gracias…. who’s the next one to convert?
mm
February 29th, 2012
1:10 pm
You listen here Missy! You’re having that baby.
And after it’s born, I could care less about it.
Sincerely,
The GOP
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
1:18 pm
“And after it’s born, I could care less about it”
Until it gets old enough to send to a useless and unneccessary war, or two.
TaxPayer
February 29th, 2012
1:19 pm
“If I want your opinion, I’ll give it to you.” – Georgia GOP
Thomas
February 29th, 2012
1:23 pm
I am driving 95 MPH to save my asthmatic son……..
One of the prior Presidents started this politics by example paradigm- really a fool’s game
Jason
February 29th, 2012
1:24 pm
Problem is…You couldn’t live with that. The liberal view is not abortion only in the cases of complications. The liberal view is on-demand abortion…no justification.
If liberals could “live with that”; I believe we’d have a consensus on the topic rather quickly.
Normal
February 29th, 2012
1:24 pm
http://todayentertainment.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/29/10540912-monkees-star-davy-jones-dies-at-66
I really liked these guys..R.I.P. Davy
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
1:27 pm
“The liberal view is on-demand abortion…no justification.”
Ok, so how would YOU go about FORCING a woman to carry her pregnancy to term?
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
1:27 pm
Normal – I’m sorry to hear that too. I like them too.
JOE COOL~THUGGin' On CONs
February 29th, 2012
1:28 pm
“The liberal view is not abortion only in the cases of complications. The liberal view is on-demand abortion…no justification.”
NOPE….it’s choice to do what ever the F you chose to do to YOUR body.
Regressive Fantasyland
February 29th, 2012
1:28 pm
Jason – the ‘liberal view’ is that people should be free to do with their bodies as they please; the moderate liberal view is also that sensible limits are ok; the extreme liberal view (ie, no limits at all) is held by very, very few. Fortunately for everyone, there are very, very few extreme liberals; unfortunately for everyone, there are very very few moderate conservatives; also unfortunate for everyone, there are very man retrograde wackjob regressives.
Regressive Fantasyland
February 29th, 2012
1:29 pm
oops – that shoulda been “very manY regtrograde wackjob regressives”
Regressive Fantasyland
February 29th, 2012
1:30 pm
Oh, and in terms of personal liberty, remember that one of the guys vying for the regressive party nomination also happens to hold extreme liberal views, as they relate to social and so-called moral issues.
JohnnyReb
February 29th, 2012
1:31 pm
Rockerbabe
February 29th, 2012
12:43 pm
60% of all abortions are procurred by women who have at least one child; they know exactly what they are doing.
______________________________
If they “know exactly what they are doing,” please explain how they got pregnant with a baby they don’t want?
mm
February 29th, 2012
1:31 pm
“The liberal view is on-demand abortion…no justification.:
Strange how wingnuts have convinced themselves they know what a liberal is thinking.
No wonder righties are impossible to compromise with. They hear voices in their heads.
Normal
February 29th, 2012
1:31 pm
Bottom line: What a woman does with her body is between her and God and nobody else…
Normal
February 29th, 2012
1:33 pm
mm,
“They hear voices in their heads.”
No…only echos ’cause their heads are mostly empty…
Regressive Fantasyland
February 29th, 2012
1:34 pm
Normal – that assumes the existence of god, in the first place, and that’s a huge assumption; really, the bottom line is this: what a woman does with her body (and a man with his), is between her or his ego and her or his id. That’s about it.
kayaker 71
February 29th, 2012
1:34 pm
Well, leave it to Bozo and he will kill them even after they are delivered at full term, just because some irresponsible young lady doesn’t want the baby…… that’s after a botched first try at getting rid of it. And that’s a 270 day old “fetus”. Listen to Bozo’s speech before the Illinois state senate when he backed a bill to do just that. The real sound clip leaves no doubt.
stands for decibels
February 29th, 2012
1:34 pm
Oh, and in terms of personal liberty, remember that one of the guys vying for the regressive party nomination also happens to hold extreme liberal views, as they relate to social and so-called moral issues.
you talking Ron Paul? Ron is fine with forcing women to carry all pregnancies to term. He claims that it’s a state’s rats issue, but he’s fine with individual states doing this.
MightyRighty
February 29th, 2012
1:35 pm
Republicans are opposed to PAYING for abortion for dimwits that can’t keep their panties on. Liberals know this but since they are unable to argue with common sense they lie about it. I repeat, the government has no business getting involved in health care. I know some of you couldn’t live without the government telling you what to do or protecting you from your own stupidity so you won,t have to actually use initiative and think for yourself which is why you are a Democrat.
carlosgvv
February 29th, 2012
1:36 pm
Normal – 1:31
Unfortunately, Republicans in Georgia are in charge of deciding what women should do as God has not bothered to show up and exert any say so in the matter.
JohnnyReb
February 29th, 2012
1:37 pm
I must agree with Jay, the legislature is trying to put in place something that does not address convenience abortion and would make health related abortions unnecessarily more difficult.
Allow me to remind my Liberal friends the time for choice is before sex. Convenience abortions are wrong to the highest degree.
JOE COOL~THUGGin' On CONs
February 29th, 2012
1:37 pm
MightyRighty
February 29th, 2012
1:35 pm
Well since federal funds dont pay for abortions, whatcha B*tChInG about.
Bruno
February 29th, 2012
1:37 pm
Bruno, cite examples of where Jay’s takes on the issues of the day are “far-left”.
sfd–Just for you, I did a quick count of Jay’s column topics for the past two months. Excluding the FNM entries, Jay wrote 98 columns. 58 focused on either the Repub candidates, or the Republican Party in general. 57 were negative, one Romney column might be called positive. In the same time span, he wrote 11 positive articles about Obama, 21 articles supporting liberal causes, with 8 politically neutral columns.
So, you tell me what this represents??
God
February 29th, 2012
1:38 pm
I exist.
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
1:39 pm
“If they “know exactly what they are doing,” please explain how they got pregnant with a baby they don’t want?”
and what gives you the “right” to judge them without knowing all the facts of their situation?
TaxPayer
February 29th, 2012
1:40 pm
Republican women must have it rough given that their men tell them what they can do with their bodies — just like the Taliban. Then again, maybe they like being owned, like property. Perhaps we’ll find out come election time, if they’re allowed out of the house to vote. I did hear about the wife of a Virginia Republican that denied her husband sex, not that they do that sort of thing though. At least not without telling themselves that they’re only doing it because they want to have another child. Otherwise, it would be so wrong.
stands for decibels
February 29th, 2012
1:40 pm
So, you tell me what this represents??
The work of a political columnist. How is this “far left?” It sounds pretty moderate, i.e. center left, to me.
kayaker 71
February 29th, 2012
1:40 pm
Bozo is so concerned with every woman having government provided contraceptive devices or ones provided by some insurance company. Next it’ll be tooth brushes for those who want to prevent tooth decay. Seems like about 1.27M women, even when provided with some sort of free birth control device, are not using them. The best birth control device is a single aspirin….. placed firmly between the knees.
Thomas
February 29th, 2012
1:43 pm
Well said Jason-
Agreeing to compromise would destroy jobs for those who live for controversy- DC and the media would be reduced to “nothingness”
The devil
February 29th, 2012
1:43 pm
No you don’t
JohnnyReb
February 29th, 2012
1:43 pm
Doggone – the same right to judge murder is wrong, among them common sense, character, and morals.
Rockerbabe’s post did not distinguish a medically necessary abortion as opposed to others.
TaxPayer
February 29th, 2012
1:44 pm
If they “know exactly what they are doing,” please explain how they got pregnant with a baby they don’t want?
I ain’t touchin’ that one.
Jason
February 29th, 2012
1:44 pm
LIberals…No discipline, no morals, no ethics, ….No class.
The devil
February 29th, 2012
1:46 pm
kayaker – could it be that bozo’s concern is to stop the spread of regressives since the unfortunate reality is that poor whites (also known as an essntial part of the ‘base’) have a disproportionate number of pregnancies (in and out of wedlock), thereby further increasing their disproportionate usage of the safety net they claim to so abhor?
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 29th, 2012
1:47 pm
LIberals…No discipline, no morals, no ethics, ….No class.
Which means you lost the argument and are sulking. We’ll call you a waaaaahmbulance if you need one.
TaxPayer
February 29th, 2012
1:47 pm
The best birth control device is a single aspirin….. placed firmly between the knees.
Yep, that’s another way to end the Republican party but the way they’re going right now will do the job even faster.
The devil
February 29th, 2012
1:47 pm
i should add: “and to which they contribute disproportionately little”
Midori
February 29th, 2012
1:47 pm
Davy Jones just got on that Last Train to Clarksville
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUUSdvwEC_Y
mm
February 29th, 2012
1:47 pm
“Convenience abortions are wrong to the highest degree.”
Is “convenience abortions” the new talking point today?
Which was it righties, Fox News or Rush?
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
1:47 pm
Becky? You still here?
jhunt163
February 29th, 2012
1:48 pm
And what about the irresponsible father if he does or does not want a child? Can he ask the woman to keep or abort? Does he have any rights other than being drug into court and forced to pay child support? I mean the biggest form of male contraception is a condom. A woman obviously knows if a man is using birth control, but it is not the same the other way around.
kayaker 71
February 29th, 2012
1:48 pm
The devil,
I think I got all of that after reading it a couple of times. Yeah, sounds pretty good to me.
JOE COOL~THUGGin' On CONs
February 29th, 2012
1:49 pm
Jason
February 29th, 2012
1:44 pm
River+u+Jump
mm
February 29th, 2012
1:49 pm
“the unfortunate reality is that poor whites (also known as an essntial part of the ‘base’) have a disproportionate number of pregnancies (in and out of wedlock),”
The reality the right can’t seem to comprehend. Poor whies tend to vote GOP expecting that trickle down.
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 29th, 2012
1:49 pm
I mean the biggest form of male contraception is a condom.
Vasectomies are reversible. Just sayin’ that latex isn’t the only possible choice.
TaxPayer
February 29th, 2012
1:49 pm
“Ethics! Did someone say ethics. OFF with his head!” – Ralston, the Dawg Food of Chumps.
Jimmy62
February 29th, 2012
1:50 pm
Deciding that when they can feel pain is when you can’t abort IS NOT SCIENCE! It’s an opinion. There’s no science involved in deciding that’s the point when life begins or whatever, it’s just your opinion, Jay, and you trying to pass it off as some scientific fact just shows how foolish and unscientific your thinking is.
You really only care about the science when it agrees with your opinion, same as most of us.
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
1:50 pm
“Doggone – the same right to judge murder is wrong, among them common sense, character, and morals”
Nope, you don’t actually have that right either…without knowing all the circumstances. Murder is wrong, but not all killing are murder and without knowing the circumstances you could seriously MISJUDGE what happened.
JOE COOL~THUGGin' On CONs
February 29th, 2012
1:50 pm
“LIberals…No discipline, no morals, no ethics, ….No class.”
Now thats funny….coming from the party that has a SERIAL ADULTERER running for President.
Bruno
February 29th, 2012
1:50 pm
Bottom line: What a woman does with her body is between her and God and nobody else…
Normal–If it were only that simple, then we would have no need for restrictions on abortions. the bottom line is that there are two lives at stake when a woman gets pregnant. To deny human status to a developing fetus is a pretty callous, non-thinking approach.
Having said that, I’m with Jay and the rest of you in regards to this particular bill, if I’m understanding it correctly. Forcing a woman to carry a severely impaired child to term serves no one.
jhunt163
February 29th, 2012
1:51 pm
Vasectomies are reversible. Just sayin’ that latex isn’t the only possible choice.
That’s why I chose the word biggest and not only.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
1:51 pm
Righty — “Republicans are opposed to PAYING for abortion for dimwits that can’t keep their panties on.”
How do you feel about paying for lots of drinks for such ‘dimwits?’
“Liberals know this but since they are unable to argue with common sense they lie about it.”
I’m sure you don’t speak for all conservatives. Consequently, it might be *you* that’s lying about it.
“I repeat, the government has no business getting involved in health care.”
Is that why the GOP is pushing so hard to constrain and limit abortions?
“I know some of you couldn’t live without the government telling you what to do or protecting you from your own stupidity so you won,t have to actually use initiative and think for yourself which is why you are a Democrat.”
No, I’m a Democrat because I couldn’t stand being around Republican jerkazoids any longer. I was tired of being lectured about the sorts of things I was expected to say and do and believe, and I figured I could find a different group that wouldn’t be such fascists about everyone having to march in step.
JohnnyReb
February 29th, 2012
1:52 pm
Doggone – mighty weak, mighty weak.
God
February 29th, 2012
1:52 pm
The devil is bad.
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
1:53 pm
“but it is not the same the other way around.”
If the man doesn’t want to cause a pregnancy, he should be SURE HIS form of birth control doesn’t fail.
If he WANTS a pregnancy and the resulting eventual child, he better be sure his partner is in agreement.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
1:53 pm
Bruno — “the bottom line is that there are two lives at stake when a woman gets pregnant. To deny human status to a developing fetus is a pretty callous, non-thinking approach. ”
I respect your *opinion,* but I do not share it.
Bruno
February 29th, 2012
1:54 pm
The work of a political columnist. How is this “far left?” It sounds pretty moderate, i.e. center left, to me.
So, sfd, moderate thought is now almost 100% anti-Republican and 100% positive for the Dems??
I would never deny you, or Jay, your right to your own opinion. But how about a little truth-in-advertising?? Do you not recognize how far Left your own viewpoint is?? Pretty scary to me if you think you, Jay or any of the other Libs here are anywhere close to the middle.
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
1:54 pm
Having said that, I’m with Jay and the rest of you in regards to this particular bill, if I’m understanding it correctly. Forcing a woman to carry a severely impaired child to term serves no one.
Exactly. That is such a clear and simple point of logic that there really is no room for debate.
But then again, people toss all thought and reason away whenever the dreaded “A-word” is mentioned.
Jimmy62
February 29th, 2012
1:54 pm
The Devil: Please show your stats about how poor whites have a disproportionate amount of children born out of wedlock. And as compared to whom? It is too bad that the culture, no matter your race, is convincing so many people to have children out of wedlock, when statistically if you graduate high school and get married before having a kid, your kid is very unlikely to be poor.
The devil
February 29th, 2012
1:54 pm
mm – lol; the only thing that’s trickling down to poor whites is the fecal matter that’s continually being launched from pretty much every regressive’s front-facing derrier
JohnnyReb
February 29th, 2012
1:55 pm
mm
February 29th, 2012
1:47 pm
“Convenience abortions are wrong to the highest degree.”
Is “convenience abortions” the new talking point today?
Which was it righties, Fox News or Rush?
_____________________________________
Try JohnnyReb. Believe it or not, I do occasionally have an original thought
Bruno
February 29th, 2012
1:56 pm
I respect your *opinion,* but I do not share it.
Then take a crack at explaining yourself. By what perspective of biology can you deny that a child in utero is not human??
kayaker 71
February 29th, 2012
1:56 pm
Over 92% of abortions performed in this country , that is about 116M each year, are performed for societal reasons, ie birth control. That’s the population of a not so small city….. every year. Only 8% are performed, regardless of the age of the fetus, for rape, incest, harm to the mother, etc. Seems like there are a bucket load of people out there who just don’t really seem to care whether they kill a potential human being or not. As long as it is legal and they “are in control of their own bodies”, anything goes. That’s sick, people, plain and simple. Just plain friggin’ sick.
The devil
February 29th, 2012
1:56 pm
God – be careful or it’s extra furnace stoking duty for you tonite.
JOE COOL~THUGGin' On CONs
February 29th, 2012
1:57 pm
“when statistically if you graduate high school and get married before having a kid, your kid is very unlikely to be poor.”
You read that in Good Housekeeping? lol
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
1:57 pm
“To deny human status to a developing fetus is a pretty callous, non-thinking approach”
You need to take that up with Mother Nature
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
1:58 pm
Midori
February 29th, 2012
1:47 pm
Davy Jones just got on that Last Train to Clarksville
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUUSdvwEC_Y
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Damn. Thanks for the heads up Midori.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfuBREMXxts
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
1:58 pm
“Republicans are opposed to PAYING for abortion for dimwits that can’t keep their panties on”
Better check your insurance policies then, because it’s quite likely you are ALREADY paying for them.
JOE COOL~THUGGin' On CONs
February 29th, 2012
1:58 pm
kayaker 71
February 29th, 2012
1:56 pm
Yep…your body, do whatever you want to do with it.
getalife
February 29th, 2012
1:59 pm
The gop are desperately trying to fire up their cons to vote for willard using social issues.
Failed as usual.
Bruno
February 29th, 2012
2:00 pm
There’s no science involved in deciding that’s the point when life begins or whatever
Human life begins at conception. It has nothing to do with opinion, and everything to do with biology.
And what about the irresponsible father if he does or does not want a child? Can he ask the woman to keep or abort?
Well, I guess he can always go on the Maury Povich show and claim it’s not his.
Doggone/GA
February 29th, 2012
2:00 pm
“Doggone – mighty weak, mighty weak”
Is it? so you are claiming the right to decide if a killing is murder, even though you don’t know what brought it about? Arrogant, arrogant.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
2:01 pm
Bruno — “Then take a crack at explaining yourself. By what perspective of biology can you deny that a child in utero is not human??”
I don’t credit that a *fetus* in utero is human until it is *a physically separate individual.* IOW, not until the mother has given birth and the umbilicus has been cut.
Merely possessing human DNA isn’t sufficient to make something “human,” IMO. Cancer cells have “human” DNA, but we don’t imbue tumors with putative, imagined humanity and we don’t compel those afflicted with cancer to host those tumors against their will.
Bruno
February 29th, 2012
2:01 pm
Better check your insurance policies then, because it’s quite likely you are ALREADY paying for them.
Because I self-insure, I only pay for myself. Pretty radical concept, eh??
carlosgvv
February 29th, 2012
2:01 pm
Many pregnacies end by natural miscarrage. Does that mean that God is guilty of murder?
JohnnyReb
February 29th, 2012
2:02 pm
Doggone – no arrogance. The state can bestow that right on any citizen. It’s called Jury Duty.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 29th, 2012
2:03 pm
K71 — “Seems like there are a bucket load of people out there who just don’t really seem to care whether they kill a potential human being or not.”
I think you need to work on your rhetoric. I thought y’all were claiming that feti were *actual* human beings, not *potential* ones.
Bruno
February 29th, 2012
2:04 pm
I don’t credit that a *fetus* in utero is human until it is *a physically separate individual.* IOW, not until the mother has given birth and the umbilicus has been cut.
So, if a child in utero is not “human”, what is it?? This has nothing to do with whatever legal rights the rest of us decide to confer or not confer. It is a question of biology.
Cancer cells have “human” DNA, but we don’t imbue tumors with putative, imagined humanity and we don’t compel those afflicted with cancer to host those tumors against their will.
A baby = a tumor?? Is that your final answer??
The devil
February 29th, 2012
2:05 pm
carlosgv – good question; i’ve asked Him that myself, but to no avail. i made Him watch justin bieber music videos for a whole day as punshiment.
Fred ™
February 29th, 2012
2:05 pm
Bruno: Did you ever hear G.Gordon Liddy on abortion and the whole “fetus” issue?