GOP continues to misplay auto bailout issue
Any real hope that Republicans may have had of carrying Michigan in November has probably disappeared thanks to the hard-fought GOP primary battle in that state, with Rick Santorum and Mitt Romney bidding for votes among the Republican base by trying to condemn the auto-industry rescue plan more harshly than his opponent.
But just in case, President Obama chose today, as Republican voters were going to the polls, to speak to the United Auto Workers convention and look back at recent history, when it seemed likely that both Chrysler and General Motors would go into liquidation.
Here’s part of what he had to say (full prepared text here):
“With the economy in complete freefall, there weren’t any private companies or investors willing to take a chance on the auto industry. Anyone in the financial sector could tell you that. So we could have kept giving billions of taxpayer dollars to the automakers without demanding real change or accountability in return. But that wouldn’t have solved anything. It would have just kicked the problem further on down the road. The other option we had was to do nothing, and allow these companies to fail. In fact, some politicians said we should. Some even said we should “let Detroit go bankrupt.”
Think about what that choice would have meant for this country. If we had turned our backs on you; if America had thrown in the towel; GM and Chrysler wouldn’t exist today. The suppliers and distributors that get their business from those companies would have died off, too. Then even Ford could have gone down as well. Production: shut down. Factories: shuttered. Once proud companies chopped up and sold off for scraps. And all of you – the men and women who built these companies with your own hands – would’ve been hung out to dry.
More than one million Americans across the country would have lost their jobs in the middle of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.
As Obama went on to note:
“About 700,000 retirees saw a reduction in the health care benefits they had earned. Many of you saw hours reduced, or pay and wages scaled back. You gave up some of your rights as workers. Promises were made to you over the years that you gave up for the sake and survival of this industry, its workers, and their families. You want to talk about values? Hard work – that’s a value. Looking out for one another – that’s a value. The idea that we’re all in it together – that I am my brother’s keeper; I am my sister’s keeper – that is a value.
But they’re still talking about you as if you’re some greedy special interest that needs to be beaten. Since when are hardworking men and women special interests? Since when is the idea that we look out for each other a bad thing?”
Given the success of the bailout, Republicans could have played the issue in one of two ways. They could acknowledge that it worked, applaud its success and move on, thus minimizing the political damage. Or they could continue to argue against all evidence that the bailout was a mistake, that they were right to oppose it and that the Americans involved didn’t deserve the help they got in keeping their jobs, their homes, their careers and their dreams.
They have chosen the second course, which frankly is pretty damn foolish.
– Jay Bookman
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403 comments Add your comment
DebbieDoRight
February 28th, 2012
4:28 pm
lol…good one. Cons dont look to kindly on “rappers” knowing more than them.
Knowing more and MAKING more!! It makes the lather up like mad dogs!!
(ir)Rational
February 28th, 2012
4:29 pm
Erwin – If you’re not “really” nitpicking, then what, to you is an “American” car? When I get in my Civic, I don’t think of it as a “Canadian” car, I think of it as a “Japanese” car. And my brother-in-law that works at the Honda plant in Alabama doesn’t profess to make “American” cars, he makes “Japanese” cars. Also, according to him, all the executives/company reps that are there aren’t “American” they’re “Japanese.”
lynnie gal
February 28th, 2012
4:29 pm
Figures GOP is spinning it’s head off about the success of the auto bailout and not convincing anyone who hasn’t already drank the Republican Kool-Aid. Those people are nuts. Oh, and also stupid.
Bruno
February 28th, 2012
4:30 pm
Well, nothing but Lameness here this afternoon.
Later……
Butch Cassidy
February 28th, 2012
4:30 pm
For those whi bring up Solyndra on a regular basis, may I ask if you’ve gotten over this loss yet?:
Twenty-five years ago today, Ronald Reagan shocked the world — and most of his scientific and military advisers — by announcing a plan with the “ultimate goal of eliminating the threat posed by strategic nuclear missiles.” A quarter-century and $120 billion later, the United States has an anti-missile system that can certainly knock a single target out of the sky, with lots of advanced notice. But it’s not clear how much more our missile defense system can do.
By the way, that was written in 2008.
(ir)Rational
February 28th, 2012
4:31 pm
ByteMe – Speak for yourself, we don’t have soft chairs.
DDR – This “con” loves some rappers. Snoop isn’t really one of them, but put on some Lil’ Wayne, or Busta, or Ludacris, or Eminem and I’m a very happy little con.
getalife
February 28th, 2012
4:31 pm
I suggest you cons follow bruno’s lead.
Cut and run cons.
You lost this issue.
Bruno
February 28th, 2012
4:32 pm
Oh, and in case any of you missed it, the 1% tip story turned out to be one more Liberal Lie:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/trending-now/banker-1-tip-hoax-real-receipt-obtained-195827093.html
Erwin's cat
February 28th, 2012
4:33 pm
ByteMe – research how long it took FoxConn to retool when Apple changed from a plastic screen to gorilla glass…or other changes
(ir)Rational
February 28th, 2012
4:33 pm
Butch – I’m personally just glad we haven’t had a reason to test it yet. But then again, I don’t like the idea of other people shooting large missiles at us.
Chuck
February 28th, 2012
4:35 pm
SOOOOO, the bailouts were bad for the country?
In the short term, no, it keep a lot of people from being out of work, but in the long term, yes it was awful for the country, bad company’s need to fail and go away. What happens in 10 to 20 years when we have to bail out these failing companies again, when will it end, I am only in my 40’s and I have lived to see Chrysler bailed out for the 2nd time. When do we finally say that this company is no good at the business it is in and it needs to be gone.
pogo
February 28th, 2012
4:36 pm
Maybe I was hasty in stating that “American Journalism is Dead”. Read this from the NYT’s. Even the Times, with its history of liberalism gives glimmers of hope for objective journalism once in a while and that is exactly why I subscribe to them. Obama is using any means he can to maintain absolute secrecy in his administration and absolute control of the journalists and till now he has done an excellent job of it. What exactly has he got to hide? His corrupt total control Chicago style political style is dangerous not only to journalism to but all of us.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/27/business/media/white-house-uses-espionage-act-to-pursue-leak-cases-media-equation.html?_r=1
Is this what you want Jay? Apparently so. In my industry this is known as the “chilling effect” towards whistle blowers which is something that we do not want or desire. If there are problems, we want to know about them. The Obama administration is carrying control of the press to a whole new height and raglets such as the AJC are helping him.
jconservative
February 28th, 2012
4:37 pm
First, a pat on the back, or a knife in the back, if you prefer, to George W for starting Obama on the trail of bailing out auto companies. It was his idea and he started the bailout and he gets the credit/blame.
Second, there was no bank or syndicated group of banks prepared to lend 60 plus billion dollars in the middle of the largest credit crunch since 1929. And without an injection of outside capital both GM and Chrysler would not have emerged from bankruptcy.
Romney of all people should know this. And he does. As Jay points out, he made a political decision to appeal to the right of the base.
Butch Cassidy
February 28th, 2012
4:37 pm
(ir)Rational – ” I’m personally just glad we haven’t had a reason to test it yet. But then again, I don’t like the idea of other people shooting large missiles at us.”
Me either, but apparently when Reagan wanted something experimental with limited success, the wallet just flew open with no questions asked. However with Solyndra, you’d think that Obama just peed on John Boehners shoes.
DebbieDoRight
February 28th, 2012
4:37 pm
Bruno: DDR–I hope you’re a better lawyer in real life. My point is in regard to the Church being forced to pay for a service which contradicts their core beliefs. Which is very different from forcing their employees to forgo contraception altogether as a condition of employment. Not funding something /= prohibiting it. No forced beliefs in play here. How you morphed that into a charge of using religious belief as a cover for violating sexual consent laws, I guess only you can answer
Poor, poor, poor, misguided Bruno. You think that the “following religious doctrines” would stop at HEALTHCARE? HAHAHAHAH!! Have you no concept how the law works?
Did the end of slavery only apply to the AFRICAN slaves in america or ALL slaves?
Did prohibition only apply to ONE STATE in the union or ALL the states?
When women got the righ to vote, did it only apply to WHITE women or ALL women?
Bruno — I don’t want to believe…no i SHUDDER to believe, that you and the GOPERS can be that damn dumb!
OK — here’s what you can do to make the law ONLY apply to Healthcare and not all areas of religion.
Close your eyes, bend over, click your heels and say “It’ll only be aplied to healthcare, It’ll only be applied to healthcare.”
Then watch as religion gets rammed up your backside.
(ir)Rational
February 28th, 2012
4:38 pm
Butch – Yeah, pretty sure he did. Careful or you’ll be next.
JOE COOL
February 28th, 2012
4:38 pm
DebbieDoRight
February 28th, 2012
4:28 pm
So true. I remember i came across this article and it floored me at how so much hatred & bigotry comes from people who hate on “rappers/musicians”. Ever need to see hatred in this world, look right her:
Birdman plans to wager $5 million on Super Bowl
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/birdman-wants-wager-5-million-super-bowl-212133798.html
Erwin's cat
February 28th, 2012
4:39 pm
ir -my honest answer is I don’t know what constitutes an auto’s heritage
I lean toward where the money goes in the end, and/or where it was designed and engineered
one could argue it’d based on who got a bailout – but I would hate to exclude Ford from being an American car based on that criteria
jm
February 28th, 2012
4:39 pm
Cons need to wake up to the great job the Republican House has done. The economy has recovered nicely since Republicans got the House back and stopped the Obama madness. Millions of jobs added. Stock market crosses 13,000.
Good job Republicans.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 28th, 2012
4:40 pm
Bruno — “My point is in regard to the Church being forced to pay for a service which contradicts their core beliefs.”
“Conscientious scruples have not, in the course of the long struggle for religious toleration, relieved the individual from obedience to a general law not aimed at the promotion or restriction of religious beliefs. The mere possession of religious convictions which contradict the relevant concerns of a political society does not relieve the citizen from the discharge of political responsibilities.”
. . .
“The present case does not present such a hybrid situation, but a free exercise claim unconnected with any communicative activity or parental right. Respondents urge us to hold, quite simply, that when otherwise prohibitable conduct is accompanied by religious convictions, not only the convictions but the conduct itself must be free from governmental regulation. We have never held that, and decline to do so now.”
Antonin Scalia, in the majority Opinion of the Court,
Employment Division, Department of Human Resources of Oregon v. Smith
494 U.S. 872 (1990)
TaxPayer
February 28th, 2012
4:41 pm
Why didn’t Obama make the DOW go to 14,000 like I wanted!
Jeff
February 28th, 2012
4:41 pm
Jay, the speech was actually in Washington at the UAW conference, not in Detroit.
carlosgvv
February 28th, 2012
4:42 pm
DebbieDoRight
As a matter of fact, Lincon’s initial Emanciation Proclomation only applied to those States that had left the Union.But,of course, you can’t be bothered with mere facts.
getalife
February 28th, 2012
4:42 pm
Look at his actions.
Then look at the outcome of his actions.
How are you going to beat him?
No, you can’t.
Butch Cassidy
February 28th, 2012
4:42 pm
TaxPayer – “Why didn’t Obama make the DOW go to 14,000 like I wanted!”
It would have, but Obama needed the investment capital to pay off his union buddies. Haven’t you been following along?
jewcowboy
February 28th, 2012
4:42 pm
You folks do realize that what Jay wrote about is not whether the bailouts were good or bad, necessary or unnecessary, rather it is about the GOP’s strategy in a very important state in November for both parties, right?
The bailouts are a lesson in semantics at this point, the GOP’s strategy for winning in November is still very pertinent.
And they seem to be doing a p!ss poor job. In an election, which by all accounts should be a cake walk, they are royally f%$^ing up left and right. Independents, which the GOP needs to win in November, are running away from the GOP’s insanity and straight in to the welcoming arms of Obama.
So for those righties on here, rather than rail at the wind on how evil the auto bailouts are, perhaps you should start railing at your GOP leaders for throwing an election that should be shoo in.
DebbieDoRight
February 28th, 2012
4:43 pm
DDR – This “con” loves some rappers. Snoop isn’t really one of them, but put on some Lil’ Wayne, or Busta, or Ludacris, or Eminem and I’m a very happy little con.
Eeewwww Little Wayne!!?!!?!
All he talks about are STRIP CLUBS!! He’s not a real rapper — he’s a wannabe!
He uses Dr. Seuss to write his hooks:
Saw a stripper today, today
Saw a stripper Today
I thought she was o.k o.k.
But when I tried to touch her booty she ran away.
===============
His rhymes sound like that ^^ Or something equally as stupid.
(ir)Rational
February 28th, 2012
4:44 pm
Erwin – I’m not sure how you could argue that a company wasn’t American because they didn’t get a bailout. Besides, there are plenty of other, smaller car companies that didn’t get bailouts that are still American (Fisker, Panoz, Tesla to name three).
Joe Hussein Mama
February 28th, 2012
4:44 pm
DDR — “Saw a stripper today, today
Saw a stripper Today
I thought she was o.k o.k.
But when I tried to touch her booty she ran away.”
Sounds like Lenny Kravitz to me.
Haven’t seen you in a while, Miz DoRight. How are you and Dudley?
DebbieDoRight
February 28th, 2012
4:44 pm
As a matter of fact, Lincon’s initial Emanciation Proclomation only applied to those States that had left the Union.But,of course, you can’t be bothered with mere facts.
It was ratified in the Senate to include ALL states. Duh!
nelson howard
February 28th, 2012
4:44 pm
The GOP got it right, with the success that the auto industry CLAIMS the stok would have to double for the federal government under Pres Obamas leadership to recoup their money
jewcowboy
February 28th, 2012
4:45 pm
DebbieDoRight,
“Or something equally as stupid.”
http://voices.yahoo.com/4-lil-wayne-lyrics-prove-hes-either-3103627.html
(ir)Rational
February 28th, 2012
4:45 pm
DDR – Give me a break, I’m a 27 year old white boy from the country. But I still like Lil’ Wayne. I don’t care what you say.
TaxPayer
February 28th, 2012
4:46 pm
Obama better not cave and give the Republicans $2.50 a gallon gas and not give me DOW 14,000! That would just be so unfair for him to just practice socialism for the Republicans.
Butch Cassidy
February 28th, 2012
4:47 pm
nelson howard – ” with the success that the auto industry CLAIMS the stok would have to double for the federal government under Pres Obamas leadership to recoup their money.
And to bring gas down to $2.50 a gallon as the GOP CLAIMS can be done, they would have to nationalize the oil industry under Republican leadership. Damn Socialists!
(ir)Rational
February 28th, 2012
4:48 pm
DDR – And “How to Love” and “No Love” are both good songs. Especially if you watch the videos and see what he was talking about (assuming you don’t get it from the lyrics).
Erwin's cat
February 28th, 2012
4:48 pm
ir – I don’t buy that argument either (my “some people” proposition)…i was just sayin’
I’ll stick with where it is designed and engineered…with that said several components are designed engineered and assembled elsewhere…I am sure they were design to requirement given to them
jewcowboy
February 28th, 2012
4:49 pm
TaxPayer,
“Obama better not cave and give the Republicans $2.50 a gallon gas and not give me DOW 14,000!”
The only way Newt is going to get $2.50 gas is too make demand take plunge…and the only way to do that is to plunge the economy back into a recession. There goes 14,000…
The upside…Republicans excel at plunging economy’s into recessions.
(ir)Rational
February 28th, 2012
4:49 pm
Erwin – Yeah, I can agree with that easily enough.
AmVet
February 28th, 2012
4:49 pm
Here’s to a broken convention in Tampa.
Not that it matters a tinker’s damn to me, or ultimately to the nation, but it would be great spectacle and mucho fun seeing even more connibalization! (sic intentionally)
DebbieDoRight
February 28th, 2012
4:50 pm
So true. I remember i came across this article and it floored me at how so much hatred & bigotry comes from people who hate on “rappers/musicians”.
No I got a good one for you. A few months back when P. Diddy gave his son a really expensive car (can’t remember what type) for his Sweet 16 birthday BUT he also gave the kid a DRIVER to drive the car around (the man didn’t make his millions by being stoopid).
The anti-black, gansta, blah, blah, blah rhetoric on the blogs were insane!! People were angry like it was THEIR money he gave away!!
However, on the flip side, the month before this 16 year old girl (who received a YACHT on her before); was lost at sea while she tried to sail around the world alone. Not a freaking WORD about that.
Thulsa Doom
February 28th, 2012
4:52 pm
“I plan to go on accusing the GOP faithful of wanting to nationalize our petroleum industry.”
Joe Mama,
Well that is pretty much what libs do- make baseless accusations.
josef
February 28th, 2012
4:53 pm
The Emacipation Proclamation exempted territories under Union control.
Right Lane Ends
February 28th, 2012
4:53 pm
I am white. I hate being white. I am trendy. I am an elitist. I am ashamed to be white. I hate the GOP. I find boards to rant on and tell everybody how much I hate white, southern, republican Christians. I hate them because they hate people. I hate people who hate people. I am intolerant of people who are intolerant. Im am a liberal. I am the best. If you are not a liberal you are stupid. I am not stoopid. Finally, read this out loud and ye shall know truth: “Im sofa king we todd did”
Joe Hussein Mama
February 28th, 2012
4:54 pm
DDR — “a really expensive car (can’t remember what type)”
I seem to recall that it was a Maybach. Quarter million and up. Given that it was Diddy buying the car, I expect it was tricked out to a considerably greater cost than the list price.
pogo
February 28th, 2012
4:55 pm
“Cut and run cons”. Not on your life Getajob. We are going to be around for a long, long, LONG time. For those like yourself who don’t have a “dog in the hunt” so to speak (i.e. you don’t have to pay for Obama’s spending as you don’t work and pay taxes) anything you have to say is pretty much irrelavent. The ones who will ultimately make the difference are those of us who still have to pay for this country’s spending. And our group will grow as the young and the working suddenly realize they are paying for a bunch of spoiled parasites who are content to take and take from the system without any cost to themselves .All Obama is doing is dumping the debt into the laps of the young to placate a bunch of spoiled boomers and how long do you think the young are going to accept that? It will get really ugly a lot sooner than you think. The young are soon going to grow to hate the “baby boomers” and for good reason. The boomers are in fact a spoiled generation of people who from the onset knew that they could rely upon the government to bail them out therefore they lived their lives as they wanted, not as they should have.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 28th, 2012
4:55 pm
Doom — “Well that is pretty much what libs do- make baseless accusations.”
Well, once you and the rest of the cons come up with an actual plan to do what you’re saying *without* nationalizing the US petroleum industry, hurry back here and tell us about it so we can stop making the baseless accusations, k? (laughing)
Butch Cassidy
February 28th, 2012
4:55 pm
Just a little food for thought the next time you start dreaming of your GOP superman lowering the price of gas to $2.50 a gallon:
“Political rhetoric is all it is,” said Guy Caruso, an economist who led the Energy Information Administration and worked as an analyst at the Central Intelligence Agency.
“Short of price controls, which were a disaster during the Nixon administration, politicians can’t do much to change the price of gasoline,”
AND
“This is absurd,” said Paul Bledsoe, a Bipartisan Policy Center scholar who spent more than 20 years working on energy policy in Washington. “Obviously the price of oil is set on a global market. In the immediate term there is almost nothing you can do.”
AND
Oil is a global commodity — it can be shipped anywhere around the world. Its price is determined largely by global supply and demand.
The United States would have to remove itself from the global trade in oil and gasoline to set its own prices, a move that could set the country up for a supply shortage and that most economists would not support.
Caruso said it’s just not a practical idea. “This is a global market with fungible supplies,” he said. “We can’t isolate ourselves.”
AND
The world currently consumes 89 million barrels a day, and by then would likely be using over 100 million barrels. By the time OPEC finished cutting production to adjust for the increased supply, Americans might save 3 cents per gallon.
“The notion that somehow we can produce so much domestically that we will move the global price is incorrect,” Bledsoe said.
AND FINALLY
The Gingrich campaign did not immediately respond to a request for comment on how the predicted $2.50 price point was reached
TaxPayer
February 28th, 2012
4:55 pm
Have any Republicans offered up a plausible approach to giving us $2.50 per gallon gasoline without either plunging us into another recession or nationalizing oil and gas industries or something similar.
Paul
February 28th, 2012
4:56 pm
Bruno
“I hope you’re a better lawyer in real life. My point is in regard to the Church being forced to pay for a service which contradicts their core beliefs. ”
Was this not settled in the SC case, United States v Lee, cited by Jay
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/02/10/arguing-for-obama-justice-antonin-scalia/
opinion by Justice Scalia, regarding the Amish who set up a business and did not want to pay Social Security taxes on employee wages?
““When followers of a particular sect enter into commercial activity as a matter of choice, the limits they accept on their own conduct as a matter of conscience and faith are not to be superimposed on the statutory schemes that are binding on others in that activity. Granting an exemption from social security taxes to an employer operates to impose the employer’s religious faith on the employees.”
“Respondents urge us to hold, quite simply, that when otherwise prohibitable conduct is accompanied by religious convictions, not only the convictions but the conduct itself must be free from governmental regulation. We have never held that, and decline to do so now.”
Or are you arguing the Court was wrong on this principle, which may be interesting to discuss, but doesn’t argue for the law.
MrLiberty
February 28th, 2012
4:57 pm
Yes, someone has spoken out against stealing money from one group of people to bail out a company that has been a perpetual failure for the past 2 decades. Oh, the horrors.
If you believe that the ends justify the means (not that I actually believe the data on GM’s “success”, then you pretty much will approve of anything. By the way, only those republicans who have opposed every bailout, handout, subsidy, protectionist policies, etc. has any moral right to speak out against this horrible bailout. Of course the only republican who has been consistent is Ron Paul – as always.
The bottom line is that bankruptcy would not have been the end of automaking in the US. It would have allowed other entrepreneurs to buy up the assets at rock bottom prices, thus allowing them to get a fresh start at a low cost. That is the way malivestment/failure is supposed to be handled in the marketplace. It is not handled through bailouts and by destroying contracts in favor of your friends in the UAW ( which of course is the unconstitutional actions the Federal Government engaged in).
(ir)Rational
February 28th, 2012
4:57 pm
I’m going home for the evening. Y’all have fun and play nice.
DebbieDoRight
February 28th, 2012
4:57 pm
jewcowboy — Lil Wayne is functionally retarded!! Thanks for that!
Joe: Haven’t seen you in a while, Miz DoRight. How are you and Dudley
I’m fine. Dudley not so much. He’s due to go back to Afghanistan and as you know they’re rioting and murdering people over there. I’m trying to talk him into staying here, (or at least staying in Germany until this thing boils over) but; I think I offended his manhood or something when I brought it up. Who knows?
Anywhooooo – I still look good, and that’s all that matters!
JOSE
February 28th, 2012
4:58 pm
JAY doesn’t get it……… yes there weren’t any private investors for GM as a whole to finance a restructuring…………….. but that supposes that is the only option………. it was not………. 2 great options were not explored
1) put GM and Chrysler in bankruptcy and have the TARP $ used as the financing………. therefore the federal govt was only the $ and the courts (judge) would have been the one to rule on business decisions since they have more experience than the Obama Adm.
2) Break up GM and Chrysler into smaller companies to align with private investors and banks……. Pontiac, Saturn, Jeep, etc would have been attractive as single companies without the Parent Co. baggage……… Asian companies would have bought into those seperated companies to get inroads into the US……. Breaking up MaBell was great for the phone industry……….Breaking up GM and Chrysler would have been great for the auto industry……..
josef
February 28th, 2012
4:58 pm
TAXI
“Have any Republicans offered up a plausible approach….”
You could’ve stopped there, imuo…
jewcowboy
February 28th, 2012
4:59 pm
Joe Hussein Mama,
“I seem to recall that it was a Maybach.”
Jay-Z and Kanye have expressed their views about Maybach’s.
http://youtu.be/BoEKWtgJQAU
Joe Hussein Mama
February 28th, 2012
5:00 pm
Paul — “Or are you arguing the Court was wrong on this principle, which may be interesting to discuss, but doesn’t argue for the law.”
Perhaps Bruno fancies himself a better attorney in real life than Justice Scalia.
Paul
February 28th, 2012
5:00 pm
afternoon, jewcowboy
“You folks do realize that what Jay wrote about is not whether the bailouts were good or bad, necessary or unnecessary, rather it is about the GOP’s strategy in a very important state in November for both parties, right? ”
Yeah, well, that lasted about a page or so.
But you now how cons here are. Can’t address the topic, change it and argue that.
Paul
February 28th, 2012
5:03 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
I seem to recall, on that thread, cons were careful to not address Scalia’s majority opinion.
Then again, the lib love was in short supply, too – (but that’s only because they were too busy recovering from shock and heart attacks)
TaxPayer
February 28th, 2012
5:05 pm
The only realistic approach to achieving the net effect of $2.50 per gallon gasoline is to increase fuel efficiency. This can actually be accomplished in many different ways. Walking more, biking more, driving less, carpooling, purchasing a more fuel efficient vehicle, properly inflating your tires, etc. Things that will not yield a net $2.50 per gallon gasoline price include drill here, drill now, Keystone pipeline, and just about any other silly Republican notion that may come to mind.
AmVet
February 28th, 2012
5:05 pm
But they’re still talking about you as if you’re some greedy special interest that needs to be beaten. Since when are hardworking men and women special interests? Since when is the idea that we look out for each other a bad thing?
BHO keeps on punking the punks.
How many times is that in the past year or so?
Hysterical…
Joe Hussein Mama
February 28th, 2012
5:06 pm
DDR — “Dudley not so much. He’s due to go back to Afghanistan and as you know they’re rioting and murdering people over there. I’m trying to talk him into staying here, (or at least staying in Germany until this thing boils over) but; I think I offended his manhood or something when I brought it up.”
When we invaded Iraq in 2003, the missis said she intercepted two phone calls from Army recruiters looking to get me to re-up (I was working in Washington on a consulting contract at the time). My extended military contract expired in 1995, so I had been out almost eight years when they called.
Anyway, she told me that she said “eff you, you can’t have him.”
Paul
February 28th, 2012
5:08 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
“Anyway, she told me that she said “eff you, you can’t have him.””
You still getting buzzed by black helicopters at night?
Thulsa Doom
February 28th, 2012
5:09 pm
Libs got more baloney than Oscar Meyer
So 4 years ago when gas was high it was because of W, Cheney, Halliburton, Exxon and all those other oil fellers.
So today of course the argument is that the potus can do nothing about the price of gas,that its a world market that we can’t do anything about, that none of this is Obama’s fault, that he and the Dems are completely blameless, blah, blah, blah,
Joe Hussein Mama
February 28th, 2012
5:10 pm
Paul — “I seem to recall, on that thread, cons were careful to not address Scalia’s majority opinion.”
I bet Scalia has said “fark” to himself more than once or twice in the last couple of weeks when he thinks about that opinion.
Thulsa Doom
February 28th, 2012
5:12 pm
Wisdom of the day
When gas is high and an R is in office its clearly his fault
When gas is high and a D is in office its clearly not his fault
Got it!
DebbieDoRight
February 28th, 2012
5:13 pm
But you’re Joe Mama — you’re not Dudley Do Right who thinks he has to save the world. He should be trying to save his marriage and let the world take care of itself………..BUT
………That’s another conversation!
Hopefully his family, (mom, dad, sister, kids); will talk some sense into him — when I try to do it he throws out the “vows” card.
Oh that card was a promise I made before I married him that, if he felt I was getting too “out of hand”; he’d use my ONE VOW he coerced me into putting into our “marriage contract”.
the vow was that “I will support my husband in his endeavors, (as he will support me in mine) because I love him. Or something equally as stooopid — I can’t remember it word for word.
It was a sh####tty vow anyway.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 28th, 2012
5:13 pm
Paul — “You still getting buzzed by black helicopters at night?”
No, but I was in Washington on 9/11 and for about a year and a half afterwards, and it was *freaky* in the first couple of weeks afterwards. Mystery black sedans speeding hither and yon, inexplicable airport searches and confiscations (I had a Bic shaver and some *fingernail clippers* seized in the name of national security at Dulles International) and swarms of helicopters barrel-azzing all over the place. It was like everyone expected a bomb to go off next to them at any time.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 28th, 2012
5:15 pm
DDR, what does Dudley do in the military? Is he infantry, cavalry, MP or something else that’s likely to put him in harm’s way a lot?
jewcowboy
February 28th, 2012
5:15 pm
Paul,
“But you now how cons here are. Can’t address the topic, change it and argue that.”
If I had to deal with constant embarrassment of having to deal with the jacktards they call candidates, I guess I would be trying to change the subject too.
DebbieDoRight
February 28th, 2012
5:15 pm
Anywhooo gentlemen — I’ll catch you guys later. I’m going home to think of evil things to do to my husband.
It’s a woman thing. You guys wouldn’t understand.
carlosgvv
February 28th, 2012
5:15 pm
DebbieDoRight – 4:44
I said “initial Emancapation Proclomation”. Don’t you know what that means? DUH
Ayn Rant
February 28th, 2012
5:17 pm
Why is it so hard to understand that if the federal government doesn’t create and sustain jobs during a major recession, the government will have to support the unemployed workers? Do you think a country can work its way out of a recession by laying off a substantial portion of the work force?
Why is it so hard to understand that the way to encourage private capital investment in America is to create and sustain the jobs that support consumer demand? Do you think capitalists are dumb enough to invest in private enterprise when 9% of the work force doesn’t have jobs, and the current supply of goods and services is sufficient to meet the weak consumer demand?
Why is it so hard to accept simple economics and elementary arithmetic?
DebbieDoRight
February 28th, 2012
5:17 pm
DDR, what does Dudley do in the military? Is he infantry, cavalry, MP or something else that’s likely to put him in harm’s way a lot?
He’s a contractor / interpreter. He mostly works with civilians (or so he tells me); but I think he also works a lot with the troops when they travel to village from village.
gm
February 28th, 2012
5:19 pm
Mich unemployment rate went from 14.1% before the bail out to 9.3%, the state added 103,000, how many jobs has Georgia added with rep running this state in the last 8 years?
This is why people in the North look at these southern conservatives hicks like a bunch of idiots, who love abuse from these crooked rep in office in Georgia who has this state last in every category but the poor bubbas continue to support these losers””
jewcowboy
February 28th, 2012
5:19 pm
Thulsa Doom,
“So today of course the argument is that the potus can do nothing about the price of gas,that its a world market that we can’t do anything about, that none of this is Obama’s fault, that he and the Dems are completely blameless, blah, blah, blah,”
So if the Democrats were wrong then, wouldn’t anyone making that same argument today be wrong as well?
DebbieDoRight
February 28th, 2012
5:20 pm
said “initial Emancapation Proclomation”. Don’t you know what that means? DUH
Oh sorry. I usually only read 1/3 of whatever you post, (since you mostly just post a lot of run-on sentences and you have a tendency to rant and rant and rant and rant and…….you get the picture); so I missed the relevant part of your post…if there was one.
My bad.
AmVet
February 28th, 2012
5:20 pm
Ayn, among the titans of business enlightened self-interest went out with the Edsel.
Now there is one thing and one thing only that matters – greed.
It has replaced even money as their new god…
And the motto of the 1%?
Let them eat cake.
Thulsa Doom
February 28th, 2012
5:21 pm
Ayn Rant,
Why is it so hard to understand economic history ma’am? Why? Japan tried stimulus 10 times. It failed. It failed during the great depression. Read your history ma’am. If you could spend your way into prosperity then we shoulda just spent a quadrillion dollars. What do we have ma’am? 2% economic growth 3 years after the recession? Gawd you make some dumb points. The stupid laws were made with you in mind ma’am.
Paul
February 28th, 2012
5:21 pm
Joe Hussein Mama
“It was like everyone expected a bomb to go off next to them at any time.”
Not to open up a rabbit hole, but I do think we forgot, very quickly, the level of uncertainty, concern and fear that existed then. There was a whole lot we did not know and that was the impetus for some very poor decisions.
Thulsa
“When gas is high and an R is in office its clearly his fault
When gas is high and a D is in office its clearly not his fault”
The following’s turning into one of my standard questions (for the next little while, anyways).
Were Democrats correct when they excoriated Pres Bush for high gas prices and not taking action to lower them?
If not, are Republicans also wrong (or just brazenly political) when they do the same and excoriate Pres Obama for high gas prices and not taking action to lower them?
And if Republicans are being political, aren’t they even more reprehensible than Democrats were, as they know Democratic attacks on Bush were purely political, and after criticizing them so forcefully for their tactics, they’ve now adopted those same tactics?
jewcowboy
February 28th, 2012
5:22 pm
Ayn Rant,
“Why is it so hard to accept simple economics and elementary arithmetic?”
Because they replaced both of those subjects with “intelligent design”.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 28th, 2012
5:24 pm
DDR — “He’s a contractor / interpreter. He mostly works with civilians (or so he tells me); but I think he also works a lot with the troops when they travel to village from village.”
I see why you don’t want him to go. I was Signal, but retrained into Public Affairs. PA was the best effing job in the Army IMO, and Signal was about as exciting as peeling potatoes.
I respect his decision to go, but if he’s a contractor, he doesn’t *have* to go. My wife would cut me with a knife if I tried to go to Afghanistan under those circumstances.
jewcowboy
February 28th, 2012
5:26 pm
Paul,
Oohhh…same thought train…but your post was in first class, mine was just riding coach.
gm
February 28th, 2012
5:27 pm
Thank you Mr. President for helping other Americans saying in their homes and supporting their familes, thank you for not sending billions to Iraq and building up their country.
Paul
February 28th, 2012
5:29 pm
jewcowboy
They were nicely complementary -
Joe Hussein Mama
February 28th, 2012
5:33 pm
Paul — “Not to open up a rabbit hole, but I do think we forgot, very quickly, the level of uncertainty, concern and fear that existed then. There was a whole lot we did not know and that was the impetus for some very poor decisions.”
I almost made one myself. I was flying back home one Friday evening shortly after 9/11, and as usual, I was sitting up in First Class. Back then, the airlines threw upgrades and perks at you like nobody’s business. Anyway, everyone was watching everyone else with suspicion as they got on board. One shaggy-haired kid in a beret came on looking like he’d just been getting high in the restroom, and one of the other people in FC said ‘well, he looks like he’s already cruising at 10,000 feet,’ so we all had a laugh.
So everyone gets on, takes their seats and we take off.
Right when the first DING goes off (you’re over 10K feet) and the flight attendants get up to start serving the meal, that shaggy hippie kid came BOILING into the FC compartment. I mean, he looked totally different and was moving with a PURPOSE. Me and one or two other FC passengers leaped up, and I was thinking ‘oh spit, it’s 9/11 again’ when the older flight attendant turned around and without missing a beat, said “I’m sorry sir, you’ll have to use the restrooms at the rear of the aircraft.”
The kid paused for a moment, and then turned around. Now he was wearing the stoopid hippie expression again. And back into Coach he went.
If that FA hadn’t acted quickly, I think we might have beat that kid down, and you’d have seen my face on the national news that night.
I’m out. Everyone be well and drive safely.
Let's not count our chickens, K?
February 28th, 2012
5:34 pm
Thulsa – the price of gasoline is determined by what we call “the free market.” In “the free market,” the price of something is determined by what we call “the law of supply and demand.” The “law of supply and demand” provides, generally, that when demand exceeds supply, prices go up. That’s what’s happening now. Oh, also, US oil production is at its highest level in over 15 years, so don’t be brining up Keystone.
Thanks for playing, and you’re welcome.
Kamchak
February 28th, 2012
5:36 pm
Olympia Snowe retires.
Let's not count our chickens, K?
February 28th, 2012
5:39 pm
Olympia Snowe’s retirement is a blow to us all, not just the Grand Old Regressive Party. She is one of the few sane, reasonable elephants still left in the room.
Thulsa Doom
February 28th, 2012
5:43 pm
Let’s not count our chickens, K?
February 28th, 2012
5:34 pm
Thulsa – the price of gasoline is determined by what we call “the free market.” In “the free market,” the price of something is determined by what we call “the law of supply and demand.”
Lets not count our chickens,
Sheesh. Did you really think you could teach someone who has an economics degree about supply and demand? Ma’am I’ve forgotten more economics than you’ve ever known. If you really want to impress me than wow me with some econometric analysis of the price elasticity of a gallon of gas. I’ll expect your dissertation very shortly genius.
Paul
February 28th, 2012
5:44 pm
Kamchak
“Olympia Snowe retires.”
Bosch just staggered, clutched his chest and gasped “I feel a disturbance in the Force…”
Kamchak
February 28th, 2012
5:46 pm
Paul
I’m sure he’ll find solace in the paws of his puppies.
Kamchak
February 28th, 2012
5:48 pm
Oh, and that is the topic of Jay’s new sheets. (Snowe’s retirement, not Bosch’s puppies.)
Common Sense isn't very Common - Papist Independent
February 28th, 2012
5:53 pm
UAW meeting for Mitt to be held in the phone booth at 1st and Main in Detroit
Thulsa Doom
February 28th, 2012
5:59 pm
Common sense,
They better hurry up with that phone booth meeting before Detroit completely implodes from decades of Democratic corruption and leadership. They’re still imploding and bulldozing whole neighborhoods in Detroit or didn’t you know that?
Let's not count our chickens, K?
February 28th, 2012
6:02 pm
Thulsa Doom: “Wisdom of the day. When gas is high and an R is in office its clearly his fault. When gas is high and a D is in office its clearly not his fault. Got it!”
Did your economics degree come with a money back guarantee? If so, I think you should go get it.
Mama Says
February 28th, 2012
6:11 pm
Hey news flash !
The United Auto Workers support Obama !
I mean
Obama vists United Auto Workers and they approve !
Or
Union supports Obama, $ 45 an hour salaries saved, Union vows never retreat on workers rights ” we are tired of being mistreated”
In a related story, union vows – republicans want to take your pension, insurance, social security, Medicare, Medicaid, education, house, cars, and send your kids to die in the desert–democrats agree, say republicans don’t want to give us anything
How shocking, you liberal government handout, I deserve it people support Obama
Rich
February 28th, 2012
6:59 pm
Nice strategy by our president. Remind the Michigan voters that Romney didn’t care if the industry went belly up. Boo for Willard. Hurray for Rick. Then Santorum, with all his wacky ideas, getsburied in a landslide in November. This is way too easy… like shooting fish in a barrel.
TNRealist
February 28th, 2012
9:26 pm
For those chattering about gas prices I suggest you take a look at Sen. Bernie Sanders (Ind. VT) op piece on CNN.com today. Very interesting reading.
Proud to be me!
February 28th, 2012
11:45 pm
Obama’s bailout . . . just a political move . . . reaps union votes . . . that’s it in a nutshell! Just like the other bailouts Obama instigated . . . all in the name of votes!!!