GOP continues to misplay auto bailout issue
Any real hope that Republicans may have had of carrying Michigan in November has probably disappeared thanks to the hard-fought GOP primary battle in that state, with Rick Santorum and Mitt Romney bidding for votes among the Republican base by trying to condemn the auto-industry rescue plan more harshly than his opponent.
But just in case, President Obama chose today, as Republican voters were going to the polls, to speak to the United Auto Workers convention and look back at recent history, when it seemed likely that both Chrysler and General Motors would go into liquidation.
Here’s part of what he had to say (full prepared text here):
“With the economy in complete freefall, there weren’t any private companies or investors willing to take a chance on the auto industry. Anyone in the financial sector could tell you that. So we could have kept giving billions of taxpayer dollars to the automakers without demanding real change or accountability in return. But that wouldn’t have solved anything. It would have just kicked the problem further on down the road. The other option we had was to do nothing, and allow these companies to fail. In fact, some politicians said we should. Some even said we should “let Detroit go bankrupt.”
Think about what that choice would have meant for this country. If we had turned our backs on you; if America had thrown in the towel; GM and Chrysler wouldn’t exist today. The suppliers and distributors that get their business from those companies would have died off, too. Then even Ford could have gone down as well. Production: shut down. Factories: shuttered. Once proud companies chopped up and sold off for scraps. And all of you – the men and women who built these companies with your own hands – would’ve been hung out to dry.
More than one million Americans across the country would have lost their jobs in the middle of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.
As Obama went on to note:
“About 700,000 retirees saw a reduction in the health care benefits they had earned. Many of you saw hours reduced, or pay and wages scaled back. You gave up some of your rights as workers. Promises were made to you over the years that you gave up for the sake and survival of this industry, its workers, and their families. You want to talk about values? Hard work – that’s a value. Looking out for one another – that’s a value. The idea that we’re all in it together – that I am my brother’s keeper; I am my sister’s keeper – that is a value.
But they’re still talking about you as if you’re some greedy special interest that needs to be beaten. Since when are hardworking men and women special interests? Since when is the idea that we look out for each other a bad thing?”
Given the success of the bailout, Republicans could have played the issue in one of two ways. They could acknowledge that it worked, applaud its success and move on, thus minimizing the political damage. Or they could continue to argue against all evidence that the bailout was a mistake, that they were right to oppose it and that the Americans involved didn’t deserve the help they got in keeping their jobs, their homes, their careers and their dreams.
They have chosen the second course, which frankly is pretty damn foolish.
– Jay Bookman
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
403 comments Add your comment
Thulsa Doom
February 28th, 2012
3:30 pm
…..which would DEPLETE the slave labor pool!!!
Debbiedoright,
That hyperbole is a bit much ma’am. We Alabama fans don’t consider LSwho fans to be our slaves. They are however our beyotches.
Bruno
February 28th, 2012
3:31 pm
Don’t you think that their management might have had something to do with that labor contract?
Management’s capitulation to the unions over and over doesn’t somehow move the labor cost from the worker’s ledger to the management’s ledger. Excessive labor cost was likely the biggest culprit in terms of the companies’ larger financial woes. Do you deny that?? If so, why do you think the unions should have been rewarded with ownership??
Joe Hussein Mama
February 28th, 2012
3:31 pm
Doggone — “You got caught by the blue-nosed bitch, an AUTOMATED system. You’ve spelled something on the no-no list, or used a no-no word.”
This is why I use the euphemism “Richard” for the word in question. It never seems to trigger the autocensor.
timbo
February 28th, 2012
3:32 pm
Obama – Leading From Behind.
That about says it all.
This year I will be voting AGAINST Obama more than I will be voting for the GOP candidate.
Butch Cassidy
February 28th, 2012
3:33 pm
(ir)Rational – ” I don’t know why exactly, but that’s what the city decided.”
Tell me about it. Growing up my house was directly across the street from Foothill Elementary. But due to the districting, I had to attend Lincoln Elementary 5 blocks south of where I lived. No matter where you go, government stupid will always be with you.
mm
February 28th, 2012
3:33 pm
“It was certainly successful for the unions”
The rallying cry of the low information voters.
Don’t you think Obama would be in serious trouble if this were true?
getalife
February 28th, 2012
3:34 pm
LSU 1.
Bama 1.
Own that.
(ir)Rational
February 28th, 2012
3:34 pm
ByteMe – So yeah, I’m going to assume a news site/magazine owned by him would be right leaning.
Butch Cassidy
February 28th, 2012
3:35 pm
timbo – “This year I will be voting AGAINST Obama more than I will be voting for the GOP candidate”
And based on your previous posts, this is somehow a surprise becuase…..?.
Bruno
February 28th, 2012
3:35 pm
getalife, strange as it may sound mathematically, sometimes 1 /= 1.
Only one champ, it it ain’t LSU. Sorry.
Thulsa Doom
February 28th, 2012
3:36 pm
getalife,
Would you come over and shine my replica of the crystal ball. Its getting some dust on it after a month or so? The 2011 AP trophy could use a touchup also.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 28th, 2012
3:37 pm
Bruno — “Management’s capitulation to the unions over and over doesn’t somehow move the labor cost from the worker’s ledger to the management’s ledger.”
If management *agreed* to it, then why does it belong in the workers’ ledger in the first place? Isn’t that a *shared* responsibility?
“Excessive labor cost was likely the biggest culprit in terms of the companies’ larger financial woes. Do you deny that??”
I don’t deny that you think it was likely, no. Now, if you’d like to present some concrete and verifiable data, we can talk about facts instead of conjecture.
“If so, why do you think the unions should have been rewarded with ownership??”
Get back to me with actual data, Bruno, and then we can talk. And let me know when you have some sort of actual plan to keep ‘our gas’ here ‘at home’ instead of putting it on the world market — and doing it in a non-SOSHULIST manner.
Chevy Runs Deep
February 28th, 2012
3:39 pm
In the South!!
JOE COOL
February 28th, 2012
3:40 pm
“This year I will be voting AGAINST Obama more than I will be voting for the GOP candidate.”
Good luck with that sport…..your candidates SUCK..
Josey Whales
February 28th, 2012
3:40 pm
K71 – than make a fanatic Muslim happier, you do everytime you go to the gas pump. The Saudis are laughing at you and calling you a capitalist thug aka keyboard gangster
Paul
February 28th, 2012
3:40 pm
Hi Midori!!!
“got your food stamps yet?
I understand Obama sent them to all us on this blog, courtesy of Federal Express.”
Yeah, I did.
Darn things don’t work.
Pretty pics of some gourmet stuff, but the darn things keep falling off the envelopes.
Stevie Ray
February 28th, 2012
3:41 pm
JAY,
To the extent that creditors or GM got paid 100% on the dollar (again taxpayers assuming bank’s risks) then, it is not necessarily a good outcome relative to if bankruptcy, as typically the case, squeezed these creditors to take 20% or so on the dollar. They got a sweetheart deal and I’m certain cash from these winners will flow to your pal. Otherwise, it seems to be a good outcome for unions…however irrelevant they are becoming.
Big Brother
February 28th, 2012
3:42 pm
Democrat candidates have won Michigan in the last 5 presidential voting cycles. And, Democrats will probably win that state this year for 6 in a row. Other than just the GOP primary process, there really is no need for Republicans to even bother with that state.
Besides that the 2010 Census Reapportionment: Michigan was the only state to lose population in the 2010 Census. It will lose one electoral vote, giving it 16 for the 2012, 2016 and 2020 presidential elections. This is the 4th consecutive Census where Michigan has lost at least one electoral vote.
Forget Michigan and move on.
mm
February 28th, 2012
3:43 pm
“Excessive labor cost was likely the biggest culprit in terms of the companies’ larger financial woes. Do you deny that??”
The republican race to poverty.
GOP Motto:
We want to be just like China.
Corporations have reported record profits the last 2 years. But the low info cons keep buying the corporate line that labor costs are killing them.
The GOP politicians are laughing at you gullible voters. They gain your vote, then screw you over. And you cheer them on.
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 28th, 2012
3:43 pm
Excessive labor cost was likely the biggest culprit in terms of the companies’ larger financial woes. Do you deny that?? If so, why do you think the unions should have been rewarded with ownership??
Sounds to me like management’s fault that their labor costs were too high. You don’t blame a worker that they’re overpaid, you blame the manager who agreed to pay the worker that money. At least outside of Rightwingnutistan, it seems.
And it wasn’t the UAW directly that got ownership, but their health and pension plans, and I’m pretty sure they were part owners of GM before the bailout AND if their pension plan had gone bust, the taxpayers (through the PBGC) would have been on the hook for that as well.
Bruno
February 28th, 2012
3:44 pm
Here you go, Joe, a CNN article detailing GM’s financial woes. Seems to focus primarily on labor costs.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/02/news/companies/gm_will_it_work/index.htm
And let me know when you have some sort of actual plan to keep ‘our gas’ here ‘at home’ instead of putting it on the world market — and doing it in a non-SOSHULIST manner.
Joe–That’s your nonsense, not mine. Never said anything to the effect.
gm
February 28th, 2012
3:44 pm
Each employee received $10,000 portion of the share profits, sounds like hick states like Georgia need more unions, maybe wages would go up and less people living in the trailer parks outside of atlanta””’
Oh but wait, bubba and randy rather stay in his park broke and give all their money to Newt, Deal the rep who could care if they live or die or figure””
(ir)Rational
February 28th, 2012
3:45 pm
Paul – “Darn things don’t work.
Pretty pics of some gourmet stuff, but the darn things keep falling off the envelopes.”
I don’t care who you are, that sh*t’s funny.
Stevie Ray
February 28th, 2012
3:45 pm
I recall Bush approved $13 billion or so at one point to help both manufacturers. Does anyone know how much BO admin invested?
Shawny
February 28th, 2012
3:45 pm
I don’t get the Ford would have gone under too if it werent for the GM and Chrysler bailout.
Based on what?
If GM dissolved, Ford would have sold even more cars, raising even more capital.
Josey Whales
February 28th, 2012
3:47 pm
The bailout for the auto industry was about beefing up the funds for the unions, according to neo-cons. Pretty sure Private(non-union)contractors made out like bandits during the Iraq war, stuff like no bid contracts……………grover norquist do-boys, your game is wack like tim tebow’s
(ir)Rational
February 28th, 2012
3:47 pm
Shawny – Well, just taking a stab at it here, but the fact that the suppliers that supply parts for all three automakers would have probably gone under due to lack of customers. Considering how GM and Chrysler wouldn’t have been buying from them anymore. Like I said, just taking a stab at it.
Stevie Ray
February 28th, 2012
3:47 pm
BYTEME
How is it that after shakedown after shakedown by unions (see Job Banks), managment is responsible for uncompetitive labor costs? I’m not following you.
SPC
February 28th, 2012
3:47 pm
The administration was right on this one.
TaxPayer
February 28th, 2012
3:47 pm
Q. Isn’t this an unprecedented intervention by government in the private economy?
A. No, it’s neither the first time a company has actually been owned by the government nor the biggest intervention in dollar terms. In 1974, the government took over six bankrupt railroad companies and created a new government corporation, Conrail, which it operated for 12 years until it was profitable, and then sold it to private investors. The government’s investment in AIG is three times larger than its $50 billion investment in GM.
Recon 0311 2533
February 28th, 2012
3:49 pm
“Don’t you think Obama would be in serious trouble if this were true?”
First of all I think Obama is in serious trouble. It will be a close election and one he could very well lose as he has vulnerabilities. As for the unions, you’re not trying to say that they were not big winners in relationship to the taxpayers who have not seen the return of bailout dollars. GM stock will need to double before that can happen since it’s GM stock that we’re holding. I think they’re only trading around 26 dollars per share. I think you may be the one who is under informed.
Bruno
February 28th, 2012
3:50 pm
Sounds to me like management’s fault that their labor costs were too high. You don’t blame a worker that they’re overpaid, you blame the manager who agreed to pay the worker that money.
ByteMe–Aren’t you one of the Libs who thinks unions are great?? Power to the people and all that nonsense?? Here you have the results of unions at work, and you still refuse to acknowledge the ugly truth. I have no doubt in my mind that you cheered each and every ridiculous concession the unions strong-armed from the auto companies.
Joseph
February 28th, 2012
3:50 pm
Obama continues to lie about the auto bailout issue….
Joe Hussein Mama
February 28th, 2012
3:50 pm
Bruno — “Joe–That’s your nonsense, not mine. Never said anything to the effect.”
I didn’t say *you* did. But several of your fellow travelers have suggested nationalizing the US petroleum industry right here in recent weeks. If we are to believe, as you said, that that’s BS, then I’d like to hear what the non-socialist conservative plan is for keeping ‘our gas’ here ‘at home.’
Absent some sort of coherent plan from the GOP for accomplishing what you claim *without* nationalization, I plan to go on accusing the GOP faithful of wanting to nationalize our petroleum industry. You are certainly, free, of course, to refute that accusation at your leisure.
TaxPayer
February 28th, 2012
3:50 pm
Q. Doesn’t this agreement reverse many of the normal rules of bankruptcy and capitalism? Isn’t the government favoring UAW members over bondholders, who lent money to GM?
A. Yes and no. This is a better deal than workers often get in bankruptcy, where it is common to see their collective bargaining agreements abrogated, their claims to retiree health benefits wiped out, and their pensions frozen or reduced. But the UAW and its retirees have already given up tens of billions of dollars in wage and health care concessions over the last four years and in this bankruptcy deal to help GM survive. And although GM will still be obligated to fund 75% of the health insurance coverage it promised them, the retirees are not guaranteed lifetime coverage. GM will first have to regain profitability, since half of its future payments to the VEBA will be in the form of company stock.
GM’s current shareholders will see the stock they bought or inherited lose its entire value, and unsecured bondholders will have to accept 10% of the equity in the new GM rather than cash in payment on their bonds. Considering that they probably would not have received anything were it not for the government intervention, this outcome, while unfortunate, is fair. Secured bondholders, on the other hand, will have their bonds repaid in full. Bankruptcy law typically gives high priority to the claims of secured bondholders and that practice is being upheld in this case.
DebbieDoRight
February 28th, 2012
3:51 pm
Also, it appears from the actions of the DNC and the President that they are either very uncertain or fearful of Mitt becoming the GOP nominee. Just observing what has taken place so far today with the get out to vote campaign by the DNC and liberal media figures urging democrats to vote for Rick in MI, the
Yes it’s true!! The DNC is sooooo scared of Romney!!! We have a 24 hour “Romny Watch” at the local airports. Whenever we see romney coming in at any of the airports there’s a guy who shoots a flair up into the sky and the local DNC-Scared-Of-Romneyites rush down to the airport to do the most dastardly, republican quaking, evil thing we can to a republican nominee….
…..We sing cum-by-ah, throw used birth control pill packs at him, and then play unending “Sarah Palin’s Greatest Hits” recordings! We have it looped on “I can see Russia from my house…..I can see Russia from my house….I can see Russian from my house”; until romney runs screaming back to his private plane!!!
Don’t frake with a Dem!! Cum-Bye-Ah Bii$$$tt%%%cch##sss!!
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 28th, 2012
3:51 pm
How is it that after shakedown after shakedown by unions (see Job Banks), managment is responsible for uncompetitive labor costs? I’m not following you.
Job Banks?
How is it that management is so weak as to be unable to resist the siren song of labor’s requests for more pay? Is that your experience with your boss? You get any raise you want? Why not?
John Birch
February 28th, 2012
3:52 pm
The cost of the US bailout of GM changes every day with GM’s stock price but a reasonable estimate of the loss (cost to US taxpayers) right now is about $15B. The Treasury says it “saved” 1 million jobs. So if you call spending $150,000 for every job saved a success it’s an unquestionable success.
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 28th, 2012
3:52 pm
ByteMe–Aren’t you one of the Libs who thinks unions are great??
Naw, I’m neutral on them. I’m just one of the Libs who makes fun of the alternative reality you’ve constructed for yourself.
Erwin's cat
February 28th, 2012
3:52 pm
Are there really only 3 auto mfg’s in this global economy? I find it hard to believe a global mfg of wire harnesses etc etc provide to only the US big 3
(ir)Rational
February 28th, 2012
3:53 pm
DebbieDoRight – Yeah, I’m using your whole name because you earned it ma’am. That made me laugh.
Bruno
February 28th, 2012
3:53 pm
I didn’t say *you* did. But several of your fellow travelers have suggested
Let’s make a deal then, Joe. I’ll be responsible for my own statements, others will have to be responsible for their own statements. Otay??
Adam
February 28th, 2012
3:53 pm
DDR: You forgot glitter bombs.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 28th, 2012
3:53 pm
Bruno — “Here you go, Joe, a CNN article detailing GM’s financial woes. Seems to focus primarily on labor costs.”
http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/02/news/companies/gm_will_it_work/index.htm
I sure wish you’d read what you post before you post it. From the article:
“Libby said GM’s labor costs are now essentially equal to those of non-union plants operated by its Asian rivals.”
Again, when you’re ready with hard numbers, I’ll be willing to discuss them with you.
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 28th, 2012
3:53 pm
estimate of the loss (cost to US taxpayers) right now is about $15B. The Treasury says it “saved” 1 million jobs. So if you call spending $150,000 for every job
someone is math-challenged.
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 28th, 2012
3:54 pm
I find it hard to believe a global mfg of wire harnesses etc etc provide to only the US big 3
Heck everyone needs a amber-lit speedometer!
(ir)Rational
February 28th, 2012
3:55 pm
Erwin – You realize that Honda gets their parts shipped in from Japan. Most of them anyway. I would be willing to bet that most of the other manufacturers do the same. Could be why the parts for Hondas work on Hondas and the parts for Fords work on Fords and they’re not so interchangeable.
TaxPayer
February 28th, 2012
3:55 pm
GM, which has been in business in the United States for 100 years, has more than half a million union retirees and dependents drawing health care benefits, but only about 60,000 active workers. The foreign companies operating in the United States, on the other hand, have virtually no retirees and have taken no responsibility for their health insurance. In Japan, by contrast, Toyota, Nissan, and Honda’s retirees all have health insurance coverage paid for two years by the companies and then by national health insurance. The cost is so low that it reportedly does not appear on Toyota’s books.
JohnnyReb
February 28th, 2012
3:55 pm
No Republican is saying the bailout did not work.
We are saying it was not handled in the proper way.
It would have been OK to loan GM or Chrysler money to restructure under normal bankruptcy.
But no, Obama had to include a political payback and put the unions ahead of bond holders.
You want to talk about “values?” It’s a PP value to screw bond holders to pay back your political supporters.
Wait…wait…where I have I heard that before? Oh yea, Solendra, where more money was through down the toilet because of political supporters and they were put ahead of tax payers in the bankruptcy.
Yes, let’s talk values.
Not a Neal Boortz Redneck
February 28th, 2012
3:56 pm
Secured creditors often fall below vendors in a Chapter 11 restructuring.
Its called the Necessity Clause in bankruptcy court. Never listen to conservatives on matters of capitalism – they are idiots.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 28th, 2012
3:57 pm
Bruno — “Let’s make a deal then, Joe. I’ll be responsible for my own statements, others will have to be responsible for their own statements. Otay??”
You seem to have the details mixed up. I stated that some of your fellow travelers wanted to socialize the US petroleum industry, and you said that was BS. So I *am* holding you responsible for your own statements.
If you didn’t want to get involved in what others have said on the topic, then perhaps you would have been well-advised not to *involve yourself.*
Otay?
St Simons - we're on Island Thug time
February 28th, 2012
3:58 pm
4 more hours til we find out if it will be a brokered convention.
I think Rmoney will pull it out in Mich, he’s way ahead in early-vote totals
(people that voted early, not today)
What’s the over/under on turnout – 5?
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 28th, 2012
3:59 pm
Secured creditors often fall below vendors in a Chapter 11 restructuring.
In this case, it was the worker’s health and pension trust funds that came before bondholders. And those funds’ shortfalls would have been dumped on taxpayers in a “normal” bankruptcy… had a debtor in possession even bothered to come forward to claim the carcass of the two companies, which in early 2009 was not going to happen.
JohnnyReb
February 28th, 2012
3:59 pm
So Democrats are experts on Capitalism. What a hoot!!
Bruno
February 28th, 2012
3:59 pm
I sure wish you’d read what you post before you post it. From the article:
“Libby said GM’s labor costs are now essentially equal to those of non-union plants operated by its Asian rivals.”
I did read it, Joe. And, yes, following the restructuring, labor costs are now in line with other auto makers. Which implies that they were substantially higher prior to restructuring. Which is exactly what I’ve been saying all along.
If you can’t come up with some better arguments, I’m going to have to put you back on ignore.
Not a Neal Boortz Redneck
February 28th, 2012
4:00 pm
When a spate of bankruptcies hit the airline industry the Pilot’s unions were put ahead of secured creditors.
What good is an airline with no pilots?
This is also called the Critical Vendor Clause. It dates back to railroad bankruptcy law in the 19th century as they were allowed to buy coal over bond coupon payments.
JohnnyReb
February 28th, 2012
4:00 pm
If you guys were one of the Bond Holders, you would be singing a different tune.
Adam
February 28th, 2012
4:00 pm
Yes, let’s talk values.
No, let’s talk VALUE.
The value of getting bin Laden
The value of ending the Iraq War
The value of helping people in a time of need
The value of caring for our elderly as needed
The value of equal protection under the law
The value of separating church and state.
The value of minimum health insurance coverage
The value of the GM bailout
etc
Adam
February 28th, 2012
4:01 pm
So Democrats are experts on Capitalism. What a hoot!!
Joke’s on you: http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/02/28/433530/stocks-better-democratic-president/
DebbieDoRight
February 28th, 2012
4:01 pm
Are there really only 3 auto mfg’s in this global economy? I find it hard to believe a global mfg of wire harnesses etc etc provide to only the US big 3
Although I’d like to think you’re concerned for everyone around the world, I’m beginning to think you’re being “somewhat” sarcastic.
So to answer you in kind, Americans should be MORE concerned with AMERICAN companies; especially American auto companies.
If for nothing else, than for the safety of our Armed forces, Intelligence Communities, teachers, nurses, doctors et al. who drive American cars daily.
Our Presidents, even the republican ones, are taxied around in American vehicles. Would you really like for China to build the car that drives the President of the US around?
Are you a communist? Why do you hate America?!????
JOE COOL
February 28th, 2012
4:02 pm
“someone is math-challenged.”
Someone isnt a “snob”…lol
Erwin's cat
February 28th, 2012
4:03 pm
ir,
I’m not suggesting that the parts are modular or interchangeable, what I am suggesting is that if GM had filed, the suppliers would still have other customers and would not go under as some have suggested…chances are if a mfg is producing a wire harness for 1 auto mfg they are likely supplying to them all or most…granted not the same harness, but a different one from the same place…there are 37 “big” auto mfg’s that I am aware at least in 2010
JohnnyReb
February 28th, 2012
4:04 pm
Not a Neal Bortz Redneck – put your shingle out yet?
Not a Neal Boortz Redneck
February 28th, 2012
4:04 pm
Actually, Johnny Reb, our top capitalists are liberal.
From Buffett to that young whippersnapper Mark Zuckerberg. Liberal billionaires easily outnumber conservative billionaires (leaving the inheritors out – like the Walton family)
TaxPayer
February 28th, 2012
4:04 pm
If you were one of the secured bondholders, your tune would be “I got mine”.
DebbieDoRight
February 28th, 2012
4:04 pm
Democrats that know more about finance than YOU….
………Warren Buffet
………..Bill Gates
…………..Orpah Winfrey
………………..Snoop Doggy Dogg
Recon 0311 2533
February 28th, 2012
4:05 pm
Adam, you’re one for eight. Bragging rights on the other seven are premature at best.
Obama is over
February 28th, 2012
4:07 pm
You are right. President BUSH made the correct decision to bail out the domestic auto makers. However, in Obamaland where everyone is treated with the same set of fair rules and regulations, friends of Obama’s are treated more fairly than others. Traditionally when a company files for bankruptcy protection, net operating losses are thrown out.In the bailouts of GM, AIG, Citigroup, and Fannie/Freddie, net operating losses were allowed to be maintained. Thus, none of these companies are going to pay any corporate taxes for at least the next 10 years. AIG’s most recent earnings of $19.8 billion included $17.7 billion in tax credits. So management bonuses were based on $19.8 billion in profit versus the $2.1 B they actually made. At GM, the company is paying 47,500 union members $7000 bonuses based on $10 B in profits. The 15,000 non-union employees are having their benefits cut. And so it goes in Obamaland…where some people are more equal than others. GM gets most of its profits from sales overseas. Since they won’t have to pay corporate taxes for the foreseable future, they will not be subject to Obama’s new Global Fairness Tax he introduced last week. Like most Obama programs, we don’t really know what it is, but it will only affect successful companies doing business overseas. Maybe you are satisfied with 2% growth, but the only thing these new tax burdens are going to stimulate are the personal incomes of corrupt lobbyists pushing the Obama administration for new loopholes in our insanely complex tax code. And that is just the way Obama wants it. He wants to control all of the purse strings and pick winners and losers.
Bruno
February 28th, 2012
4:07 pm
“The value of getting bin Laden”–10 or more years of intelligence work paid off.
“The value of ending the Iraq War”–on pretty much the schedule laid out by Bush.
“The value of helping people in a time of need”–You’re giving me warm fuzzies with that one.
“The value of caring for our elderly as needed”–You mean by slashing funding to Medicare??
“The value of equal protection under the law”–??
“The value of separating church and state.”–Which occurred by the State ordering the Church to pay for services which are contrary to their own doctrines??
“The value of minimum health insurance coverage”–And when you compare it to the massive costs involved, not a good deal in any way.
Got anything else??
The value of the GM bailout
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 28th, 2012
4:08 pm
the suppliers would still have other customers and would not go under as some have suggested
You really don’t understand manufacturing do you? Although a part can look “generic” like a wire harness, it’s really a very specific part and the construction of that part requires time to not only get right, but it also requires a portion of a manufacturing facility to create it. Now if that part’s suddenly not needed (along with hundreds of other parts at similar plants in other places), it’s not like they can just go to another car manufacturer and say “we have these parts that we create to fit a Chevy Geo, want to buy them to use in your Honda Accord? It doesn’t work that way. They first have to take down the line, then retool it and restock the sub-parts for it, then they have to find someone to buy it (and those contracts are done more than a year in advance) and then they have to train their people in how to make it and then start making them in the necessary quantity.
Again, similar to the horse-and-buggy statement earlier: stuff like this happening overnight is beyond disruptive to a company’s cashflow.
Erwin's cat
February 28th, 2012
4:09 pm
So what IS an “American” car anyway?…don’t cite me a brand, cite me a qualifier like…”it’s assembled here” or something else that qualifies as an “American” car by your definition
ragnar danneskjold
February 28th, 2012
4:09 pm
There are more taxpayers paying off the UAW extortion than there are beneficiaries. I’d say the GOP has it right. Side note, WSJ has an amusing essay about how every auto company in the world is building its plants in the US, but outside Michigan, mostly due to UAW avoidance.
JOE COOL
February 28th, 2012
4:09 pm
DebbieDoRight
February 28th, 2012
4:04 pm
lol…good one. Cons dont look to kindly on “rappers” knowing more than them.
JOE COOL
February 28th, 2012
4:09 pm
“Dow closes above 13,000 for 1st time since 2008 ”
SOCIALIST!!!!!!!!
Not a Neal Boortz Redneck
February 28th, 2012
4:10 pm
General Motors Company has agreed to bailout American Axle & Manufacturing Holdings Inc. by giving the key supplier $110 million in exchange for an equity interest in the company it once owned.
Critics have maintained GM sold American Axle for song at a corporate garage sale in the early 1990s, but GM continues to be AAM’s largest and most important customer, accounting for almost 80% of its sales in the second quarter.
American Axle also was forced by its creditors to agree to several restrictions on its operations. (Sep 2009)
I hope my HTML works. Anyway American Axle is an example of a critical vendor.
Joe The Plumber Too
February 28th, 2012
4:12 pm
Gotta love that Sheriff Joe out in Arizona (besides having a great first name), he has the la raza racebaiters after him, the obama racebaiters, I mean Justice Dept., even george sorryholes and his deep pockets after him. Does he hide and lay low, hell no, He puts up a McDonalds type billboard outside his tent city showing his “number served” since opening 19 years ago. 430,000 scumbags and counting. Got a check going out to his re-election campaign in the morning. There is an American to be proud of.
real john
February 28th, 2012
4:13 pm
Not often I agree with you Jay.
At the time, I was pretty torn on this one. I kind of when with Bush on this one. As long as the unions were willing to make some concessions, it would be foolish to have that many people lose their jobs.
It was kind of like the TARP bailout. While I wasn’t wild about bailing out bankers, we didn’t really have a choice. We were literally very close to economic meltdown and a run on the banks. The more I have read about how close we were to a total monetary collapse, the more scary it really is. Our entire financial system is based on confidence…that really is it…sorry for the sidebar there.
I agree, sometimes you have to swallow your pride and admit a mistake and comend someone.
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 28th, 2012
4:13 pm
I’d say the GOP has it right.
I’m SHOCKED, raggy.
JohnnyReb
February 28th, 2012
4:13 pm
JOE COOL
February 28th, 2012
4:09 pm
DebbieDoRight
February 28th, 2012
4:04 pm
lol…good one. Cons dont look to kindly on “rappers”…..
_______________________________________________
Well, at least you have one thing right.
Erwin's cat
February 28th, 2012
4:14 pm
ByteMe – “You really don’t understand manufacturing do you?”
No I think you post illustrates your “understanding” of the subject… FoxConn may have an opinion different from yours
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 28th, 2012
4:14 pm
I agree, sometimes you have to swallow your pride and admit a mistake and comend someone.
Holy crap, who let the adult into the room??
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 28th, 2012
4:15 pm
FoxConn may have an opinion different from yours
Slave labor? Your example is based on slave labor??
DebbieDoRight
February 28th, 2012
4:15 pm
B: The value of separating church and state.”–Which occurred by the State ordering the Church to pay for services which are contrary to their own doctrines??
Oooh gooodie!! I was waiting for someone to bring that up!! (thanks!)
So if one one of the church doctrines (Let’s take Radical Mormonism a la Warren Jeffs); is to marry preteen girls, (a dozen at a time); force young girls into marriage to some really OLD and kinky men, then, according to your above comment you’d be for that correct?
And….let’s not leave out the boys. If NAMBLA started a nationwide religious chapter, would you be down for them “excercising their Christian rights/doctrines” by openly marrying young boys (and then divorcing them and marrying their younger cousins when the boys hit puberty?)
One more for the road — how about Muslims (since you guys ALWAYS forget about them when talking about religious freedoms); judging by your comment would you be tolerant of a Muslim faith that allowed for the skinning of non-believers / christians?
They’d all be upholding their religious doctrines…..
Joe Hussein Mama
February 28th, 2012
4:15 pm
Bruno — “I did read it, Joe. And, yes, following the restructuring, labor costs are now in line with other auto makers. Which implies that they were substantially higher prior to restructuring. Which is exactly what I’ve been saying all along.”
‘Implies’ is not ‘proves.’ I asked you for hard numbers, and the best you can do is ‘implies?’ If your point is so easy to prove, then one wonders why you’re having such a hard time actually *proving* it.
“If you can’t come up with some better arguments, I’m going to have to put you back on ignore.”
Be still my beating heart.
(ir)Rational
February 28th, 2012
4:16 pm
Erwin – You know, you’re right, ignore what I said about companies like Honda getting their parts from their “home country.” And an “American” auto company is a company that is based/headquartered in America. Everyone knows what constitutes an “American” car, but I guess it is fun for you to nitpick. I mean, if we’re going with just ones that are assembled here, then the Honda Pilot would be, but the Civic (assembled in Canada) and the S2000 (assembled in Japan) wouldn’t be.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 28th, 2012
4:16 pm
JohnnyReb — “If you guys were one of the Bond Holders, you would be singing a different tune.”
If you took a 100% haircut in a bankruptcy, you’d be singing an even more different tune.
Chuck
February 28th, 2012
4:17 pm
In the 80’s I was agains President Reagan’s bailout of Chrysler and I was against President Obama’s bailing out of G.M. and Chrysler. BAD BUSINESSES ARE SUPPOSE TO FAIL. It would have been a major blow to the economy to have both automakers close at once, but in the long run it would have made for a stronger economy, that is not falsely propped up with taxpayer’s money. If G.M., Chrysler, and Ford were all gone, if there was a demand for american made auto’s someone would start a new company. Anytime that either Republicans or Democrats do anything, it is for the betterment of them and their party, not the country.
(ir)Rational
February 28th, 2012
4:17 pm
ByteMe – That is rare. Someone who is willing to admit they were wrong about something. Man, there aren’t many who come here, frequently or infrequently that can do that honestly.
Not a Neal Boortz Redneck
February 28th, 2012
4:18 pm
Incidentally there was one company the Feds seized in 2008 where the bondholders were completely wiped out.
Washington Mutual – $28 billion in bonds existed one day and the next were worth nothing. The GM bondholders did well.
carlosgvv
February 28th, 2012
4:18 pm
It’s clear that Romney, Gingrich and Santorum are committed to catering solely to the crazed Tea Party base. Let’s just hope we still have a large number of Democrats and sensilbe Republicans voting in the upcoming election.
pogo
February 28th, 2012
4:18 pm
Has GM paid back the taxpayers dollars that Obama used to prop them up Jay? Will they ever? You know the answer (then again after yesterday maybe you don’t) and that is NO. And why? Because their stock will never again attain a level at which it would take to pay us taxpayers back if OUR investment was sold on the market. NEVER! The taxpayers of America lost on the GM and Chrysler deal. Anyone that isn’t totally blind can see this. Obama was paying back the Union leadership for their support. Nothing more, nothing less.
Jay’s slobbering love affair with Obama continues. American Journalism is dead.
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 28th, 2012
4:21 pm
Man, there aren’t many who come here, frequently or infrequently that can do that honestly.
Yes indeed. Someone to be encouraged.
Erwin's cat
February 28th, 2012
4:22 pm
ByteMe – Not slave labor…for one no one is forced to work there for 2) I though we were talking about retooling, retraining etc as product requirements, designs and needs change..
ir – not “really” nitpicking, just trying to add some perspective
Joe Hussein Mama
February 28th, 2012
4:22 pm
ogop — “Jay’s slobbering love affair with Obama continues. American Journalism is dead.”
Find those headlines on Drudge, did you?
AT
February 28th, 2012
4:24 pm
Obama statement is misleading. GM and Chrysler did go bankrupt, at his hand. Not that it would not have happened anyway. But by his own admission, the US gov’t is propping up an industry, that as currently built, no investor would touch. He then signs the deed over to his biggest contributors in the deal on the backs of taxpayers for one and at the expense of bond-holders who actually held the company. Nothing has changed except the infusion of BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars, never to be seen again. Not to mention/add-in the other billions spent with cash-for-clunkers, propping up the Volt, etc. There’s a reason Detroit is in a hole and now we are spending taxpayer money to keep it there. Some success.
(ir)Rational
February 28th, 2012
4:26 pm
ByteMe – Being able to admit when you’re wrong is one thing, but being an adult is overrated. People expect you to act all “grown-up” and stuff and don’t get when you’re joking as much.
Bruno
February 28th, 2012
4:26 pm
So if one one of the church doctrines (Let’s take Radical Mormonism a la Warren Jeffs); is to marry preteen girls, (a dozen at a time); force young girls into marriage to some really OLD and kinky men, then, according to your above comment you’d be for that correct?
DDR–I hope you’re a better lawyer in real life. My point is in regard to the Church being forced to pay for a service which contradicts their core beliefs. Which is very different from forcing their employees to forgo contraception altogether as a condition of employment. Not funding something /= prohibiting it. No forced beliefs in play here. How you morphed that into a charge of using religious belief as a cover for violating sexual consent laws, I guess only you can answer.
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 28th, 2012
4:26 pm
for one no one is forced to work there for 2) I though we were talking about retooling, retraining etc as product requirements, designs and needs change..
Not to see the news reports on the place.
As for retooling and all that, yes, even for iPods, there’s a lead time for change orders. Most definitely. I worked in manufacturing for a while, so I’ve been there during a product line change. And it still ignores the reality of contracts in the industry having long lead times.
JOE COOL
February 28th, 2012
4:26 pm
“Anytime that either Republicans or Democrats do anything, it is for the betterment of them and their party, not the country.”
SOOOOO, the bailouts were bad for the country?
ByteMe - Liberal Thug
February 28th, 2012
4:27 pm
People expect you to act all “grown-up” and stuff and don’t get when you’re joking as much
Yeah, but the chairs at family gatherings are the soft ones instead of the hard ones.