Obama’s poker instincts on view in presidency
The other day I stumbled across a Time magazine piece published back in July 2008, soon after John McCain and Barack Obama had emerged as their parties’ nominees. The premise of the piece was that both men liked to gamble, and that “games of chance have been not just a hobby but also a fundamental feature of their development as people and politicians.”
McCain, for example, loves to play craps, which the piece describes as “a game for showmen, Hollywood stars and basketball legends with girls on their arms.” Dice in hand, money on the table, a crowd gathered along the rails to cheer him on, a craps player basks in attention and adrenalin.
“For McCain, jaunts to the craps table helped burnish his image as a political hot dog who relishes the thrill of a good fight,” the Time piece notes, “even if the risk of failure was high.”
I’m usually wary of pieces that attempt to psycho-analyze candidates, especially when viewed through a single lens such as their choice of gambling outlets. But in hindsight, McCain’s subsequent behavior validated the Time thesis. A few weeks after the piece appeared, he rolled the dice in a high-stakes gamble on Sarah Palin, and did so again when he announced that he was suspending his campaign to rush back to Washington to save the American economy. Neither gamble paid off, but they were consistent with his personality.
Obama, on the other hand, is a poker player by nature. As an Illinois state senator, he was a regular in a weekly late-night poker game among lobbyists and fellow legislators. Interviewing other regulars in those games, the Time reporters found that Obama had a reputation as a conservative player. He’d fold losing hands quickly, but if he chose to stay in the game, it usually meant he had calculated the odds and was in it to win. Rather than force things, he patiently let the game come to him:
“The stakes were low enough — $1 ante and $3 top raise — to afford a long shot. Not Obama. He studied the cards as closely as an 11th-hour amendment to a bill. The odds were religion to him. Only rarely did he bluff….”
Obama’s play-to-win approach drove other players crazy. Former state Sen. Larry Walsh, a conservative corn farmer from Joliet, once got ready to pull in a pot with a four-of-a-kind hand. But Obama had four of a kind too, of higher rank. Walsh slammed down his cards. “Doggone it, Barack, if you were more liberal in your card-playing and more conservative in your politics, you and I would get along much better,” he said.
In hindsight, that also seems to have been prescient. As president, Obama has tended to abandon losing hands quickly, often to the frustration of liberal supporters who want to see him fight it out. However, when he draws a strong hand, the last few years have proved that he plays it well and reaps maximum advantage from it.
– Jay Bookman
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893 comments Add your comment
Recon 0311 2533
February 27th, 2012
8:27 pm
“HIGHLY RECOMMENDED:”
Jay is marcos halitosis still running their show? What do you think about David Brock and does Media Matters not matter much anymore in their weak attempts to discredit Fox News?
TaxPayer
February 27th, 2012
8:28 pm
And since there are funding limits,
jm,
you can be a PacMan too.
Boris Badnoff
February 27th, 2012
8:28 pm
No wonder The Messiah is a great poker player. He has a real Teleprompter Face. Assuming that we are blessed with another four years of The Bearer of Light, do you have to stick those Food Stamps in a book or can you use them to directly purchased gruel? Certainly I believe that the brilliant economic policies of Parter of the Seas are responsible for our flourishing economy, but my wallet keeps asking me who’s on the two dollar bill. Our Brilliant Young Inspirational Leader has taught me many things, namely I miss those delicious meals of liver, onions, and eggplant garnished with arugula. And the joys of losing your car means you don’t have to worry about Rush Hour traffic. If only I was paid to write blogs.
getalife
February 27th, 2012
8:28 pm
jm,
Again, they get unlimited corporate donations.
You are wasting your money.
josef
February 27th, 2012
8:32 pm
Mr B
That hoopla over Juan Williams for starters…lunatic fringe…
Kosher ham hocks… ssshhh , DADT
BROSEPHUS
Ain’t it the truth!
JM, et al
Romney? I’m gay…what the hell do you think I think of him and those who support him?
Jm
February 27th, 2012
8:33 pm
Taxpayer
I don’t write checks that big
Getalife
Funding source matters. If you’re a penniless candidate. In mitt’s case it matters a lot less. If he loses, he just goes back to playing with his investments. He can’t be bought.
Mr_B
February 27th, 2012
8:34 pm
Jay @ 8:05. you might want to check this one out, if you haven’t all ready seen it.
http://nymag.com/news/features/gop-primary-chait-2012-3/
Jm
February 27th, 2012
8:36 pm
Josef
I get it man. But if you can look at the bigger picture, Romney is a better choice.
They BOTH suck
February 27th, 2012
8:36 pm
Bro
I guess that Gordon can I thought he was going to open up tonight wasn’t too big………….
bman
February 27th, 2012
8:36 pm
“Romney? I’m gay…what the hell do you think I think of him and those who support him?”
Sorry Josef .. .. I don’t keep up on ALL issues. What does Romney say about this?
TaxPayer
February 27th, 2012
8:42 pm
I don’t write checks that big
It doesn’t cost anything to be a PacMan.
Mr_B
February 27th, 2012
8:42 pm
josef: I’d say NPR has more caved to the Right lately.Their coverage of the Republican primaries has been free from any hint of bias, as far as I can tell. Lots of interviews with Republican voters and little or no direct commentary on the interviewee’s statements.(fact checks, etc.) Amounts to free air time for the candidates (although I use the term “candidate” in the broadest possible terms.)
Soothsayer
February 27th, 2012
8:43 pm
The modern GOP—the party of Nixon, Reagan, and both Bushes—is staring down its own demographic extinction. Right-wing warnings of impending tyranny express, in hyperbolic form, well-grounded dread: that conservative America will soon come to be dominated, in a semi-permanent fashion, by an ascendant Democratic coalition hostile to its outlook and interests. And this impending doom has colored the party’s frantic, fearful response to the Obama presidency.
The GOP has reason to be scared. Obama’s election was the vindication of a prediction made several years before by journalist John Judis and political scientist Ruy Teixeira in their 2002 book, The Emerging Democratic Majority. Despite the fact that George W. Bush then occupied the White House, Judis and Teixeira argued that demographic and political trends were converging in such a way as to form a natural-majority coalition for Democrats.
The Republican Party had increasingly found itself confined to white voters, especially those lacking a college degree and rural whites who, as Obama awkwardly put it in 2008, tend to “cling to guns or religion.” Meanwhile, the Democrats had increased their standing among whites with graduate degrees, particularly the growing share of secular whites, and remained dominant among racial minorities. As a whole, Judis and Teixeira noted, the electorate was growing both somewhat better educated and dramatically less white, making every successive election less favorable for the GOP. And the trends were even more striking in some key swing states. Judis and Teixeira highlighted Colorado, Nevada, and Arizona, with skyrocketing Latino populations, and Virginia and North Carolina, with their influx of college-educated whites, as the most fertile grounds for the expanding Democratic base.
From Mr. B’s 8:34
Jm
February 27th, 2012
8:43 pm
Taxpayer
That is awesome
stands for decibels
February 27th, 2012
8:44 pm
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED
The resident righties’ collective reaction here is hilarious. They really can’t get past the url, can they?
(us rational folks have been enjoying Tom Tomorrow since lonnnnnng before the Orange Satan started carrying him.)
Jm
February 27th, 2012
8:44 pm
Yeah, NPR is a right wing mouth piece
Or they’re soft on the GOP
Hilarious
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 27th, 2012
8:45 pm
It’s the Daytona Caution 500
Recon 0311 2533
February 27th, 2012
8:45 pm
“Romney? I’m gay…what the hell do you think I think of him and those who support him?”
josef, You can refuse to support Romney based on your interpretations of his positions that clash with your views but how can you condemn all who support him for a variety of other reasons?
Mr_B
February 27th, 2012
8:45 pm
Jm: To which Romney are you referring? The Mass. moderate or the Mich. “severe conservative?” Or is there a 3rd, 4th, or 5th Romney that we haven’t met yet?
getalife
February 27th, 2012
8:46 pm
“WASHINGTON — On Tuesday morning, the Supreme Court will hear oral argument on whether corporations, like real people, can be held liable in American courts for international human rights violations.
The issue has divided four appeals courts over the past year and a half, as Democrat-appointed judges have uniformly voted for corporate liability while all but one Republican-appointed judge has come down for corporate immunity.”
Interesting case but 5-4 for immunity.
The gop can stop with the rule of law crap on immigration.
They believe they are above the law.
Mr_B
February 27th, 2012
8:49 pm
“Yeah, NPR is a right wing mouth piece”
I didn’t make that claim, Jm. But neither is it the mouthpiece of the lunatic left, which I will stipulate does exist, if only in minuscule numbers in this country.
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
8:49 pm
They will, Bro, and it’s gonna be a hard thing to learn to do. They’ve trapped themselves in a strategy of diminishing returns, betting on their ability to pull more and more support from a dwindling pool.
So true, Jay. The pool of people who believe in self-reliance and fiscal responsibility is getting smaller every year. And each year, the Free Lunch crowd gets bigger. Can’t wait until the latest generation raised with free school breakfast, lunch and dinner gets old enough to vote.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 27th, 2012
8:49 pm
Lots of interviews with Republican voters and little or no direct commentary on the interviewee’s statements
That’s not new. Go back and listen to any interview done by NPR and you will hear the opinions of the interviewee, never the interviewer.
This is hard to explain to Conservatives reared on talk radio and Fox News where the opinion of the talking head is front and center in EVERY segment. The talking head leads the discussion with their own opinions.
Recon 0311 2533
February 27th, 2012
8:50 pm
“The modern GOP—the party of Nixon, Reagan, and both Bushes—is staring down its own demographic extinction.”
As supported by the creditable professional polls.
getalife
February 27th, 2012
8:51 pm
“He can’t be bought.”
Those unlimited donations are bribes silly.
They want returns on those investments.
You need to grow up and face reality jm.
josef
February 27th, 2012
8:51 pm
bman
Waaaaayyyy too much to go into here, google it for a full recap…let’s just say he don’t much care for us and has made it more than plain…
JM
Bigger issues? That’s easy for you to say and I’m not being snarky…
Romney a better choice? I’ve fileted Fierce Advocate a’plenty here, but I’d vote for him any day of the week over the Dog Third’s the GOP has put up. The difference between him and them is the difference between middle seat on the bus and being thrown under the bus and then have it back up and run over you again to make sure the job gets done…
I don’t expect you and those who think like you to see it from my viewpoint, but supporting him, in my viewpoint, puts the supporter in the “enemy” camp…
Brosephus™
February 27th, 2012
8:54 pm
They BOTH
That can wasn’t a can. He opened up a cam.
Recon 0311 2533
February 27th, 2012
8:55 pm
“They believe they are above the law.”
and some also believe they’re above the law but who are actually below it. We shall see this all unfold but from what I’ve seen you’re on the losing side of this issue.
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
8:56 pm
Judis and Teixeira argued that demographic and political trends were converging in such a way as to form a natural-majority coalition for Democrats.
News flash to Soothsayer: The Republicans have been in the minority from the gitgo. And because the Repubs refuse to match the Dems offer of special favors to various ethnic groups, it can’t buy the ethnic vote. As stated above, self-reliance isn’t a popular message these days.
josef
February 27th, 2012
8:57 pm
DELL
How can I not?
Mr B
Remember, I said left and often lunatic fringe…I didn’t say it WAS lunatic fringe…and yes I tune in…and insofar as the move to the right, yes, they have…
Brosephus™
February 27th, 2012
8:58 pm
Can’t wait until the latest generation raised with free school breakfast, lunch and dinner gets old enough to vote.
And what will that prove? I grew up in a hardcore Democratic household, and I qualified for free lunch because of the number of people in that household. I don’t have that sense of entitlement that I hear preached about ad nauseum. That’s one of the things that irks me about the Right. The negative sweeping generalizations…
Jay
February 27th, 2012
8:58 pm
Poor Bruno. A victim of his own high principles.
Let us all shed a tear for him, shall we?
Recon 0311 2533
February 27th, 2012
9:02 pm
“Let us all shed a tear for him, shall we?”
Cry if you must but I’ve never had the impression that he cares about your tears. I surely wouldn’t.
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
9:02 pm
A victim of his own high principles.
I’m a victim of nothing, Jay. If my chosen political candidates don’t win, so be it.
That’s one of the things that irks me about the Right. The negative sweeping generalizations…
Not seeing any on the Left, Bro?? Seems to me that our host is making some broad claims himself…..
Brosephus™
February 27th, 2012
9:02 pm
Bruno
If you want to know why and/or where the GOP started losing the minority vote, here’s a good starting point. Long, long ago, Blacks participated in and won elections with GOP backing. The first Blacks elected to office ran as Republicans, and believe it or not, they were elected from the South. The big difference between then and now, the GOP had a cross section of beliefs that matched the cross section of beliefs throughout the country. Those Blacks were elected because of liberal Republicans. When the quest to rid the GOP of liberals began back then, that also began the purging of minority participation. One of the reasons that Blacks overwhelmingly vote Democrat now is because that’s where the liberal vote goes. It’s not because of handouts.
getalife
February 27th, 2012
9:03 pm
“I’ve seen you’re on the losing side of this issue.”
We, the people lose on this issue but this citizen united decision is the worst ever like your man McCain said.
Jay
February 27th, 2012
9:04 pm
Let me ask you this, Bruno:
Thanks to the GOP leadership of this state, Athens-Clarke County and Oconee County are coughing up $10 million in public money to buy 252 acres for Caterpillar’s new factory site. Then they’re spending another $7.6 million to build roads and install utilities for Caterpillar. Then they’re going to forgive the company another $12 million in property taxes. And then the state is going to give them another $46 million in “incentives.”
Now please, preach to me again about this “self-sufficiency” thing again? I so love the rancid smell of hypocrisy in the evening….
Brosephus™
February 27th, 2012
9:05 pm
Not seeing any on the Left, Bro?? Seems to me that our host is making some broad claims himself…..
And if I were really interested in what the left had to say, I’d question them about it. I never said they didn’t make them. According to popular rhetoric, my vote is supposedly owned by the left. Therefore, it’s up to the right to make a case for me moving my vote.
Jay
February 27th, 2012
9:10 pm
And yet while Republicans rarely raise a squawk about such deals, and almost always endorse them eagerly, they are haunted by the thought that someone somewhere might be collecting a $250 welfare check they don’t “deserve.”
Mr_B
February 27th, 2012
9:11 pm
Jay: how many jobs is this 65.6 million supposed to produce?
0311/1811
February 27th, 2012
9:12 pm
For my conservatives friends !!!
Coming to theaters this summer by the producer of “Braveheart” and “Schindler’s List”: “2016″
(Over view of the movie and who Obama really is follows. “Democrats in the U.S. want to redistribute wealth but Obama wants to realign the United States in the world. The least known
president this country has ever had.”)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6QOscKvUjU
bman
February 27th, 2012
9:13 pm
how many people will the Caterpillar site employ?
Jay
February 27th, 2012
9:14 pm
Government can’t “produce jobs,” remember Mr. B? We’re talking principle here. Self-sufficiency. Making it on your own. Don’t need no darn government handouts.
Brosephus™
February 27th, 2012
9:14 pm
Mr_B
I think the quote was 1400 jobs. Doing the stimulus job math, that would equate to $46,857 per job. At least it’s better than the rate from the stimulus.
JKL2
February 27th, 2012
9:15 pm
Rather than force things, he patiently let the game come to him:
Translation: Do-nothing community organizer
Only rarely did he bluff….”
Translation: coward.
Jay
February 27th, 2012
9:16 pm
Only losers beg for money from the government.
Brosephus™
February 27th, 2012
9:18 pm
Jay
Channeling jm???
Jm
February 27th, 2012
9:21 pm
Pinko commies are entertaining, glad you guys are around even if I don’t agree with your positions and think you’re insane.
Just wish you would vote for Romney
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
9:22 pm
If you want to know why and/or where the GOP started losing the minority vote, here’s a good starting point.
Bro–You’ve linked the Lily White Movement before. It existed, but almost all of the Jim Crow laws were drafted by Democrats. The KKK was started by Democrats. Neither political party has a sterling racial record.
One of the reasons that Blacks overwhelmingly vote Democrat now is because that’s where the liberal vote goes. It’s not because of handouts.
Which would make more sense if blacks didn’t lean conservative as a group when polled on specific issues. With the exception of Affirmative Action, of course. And though the goal of righting previous wrongs remains noble, in the end there is no way to go about it without being unfair to people born long after the unfairness occurred. We need to call it a day and move forward as equals under the law.
Jay
February 27th, 2012
9:22 pm
Who?
No, channeling Bruno. You know … demanding special favors, free breakfast, etc. It’s bad when it’s for poor people, but for highly profitable corporations who just “need a hand up,” it’s quite alright….
JKL2
February 27th, 2012
9:22 pm
getalife- “He can’t be bought.”
obama says,”What?”
Chicago crook, owned by crooks.
Mr_B
February 27th, 2012
9:24 pm
Jay: Cat had only a NET income of 4.928 billion in the 2011 fiscal year, so they really need the money to stay afloat.
Jay
February 27th, 2012
9:24 pm
“(Reuters) – Caterpillar Inc reported a 58 percent rise in quarterly earnings that blew away Wall Street expectations on record sales of construction and mining equipment, and projected strong growth for 2012….”
Jm
February 27th, 2012
9:25 pm
“Government can’t “produce jobs,” remember Mr. B? We’re talking principle here. Self-sufficiency. Making it on your own. Don’t need no darn government handouts.”
Not being taxed by the government is not a handout. A cash transfer is. By my count, only the land falls in that category then.
TaxPayer
February 27th, 2012
9:26 pm
Jay,
That money to entice Caterpillar to our state is mere pocket change when compared to the 800 jobs it will bring to the state. You see, this state and local funding buys bucket-ready jobs and they’re more valuable than mere shovel-ready jobs that federal money buys. So, assuming those 800 jobs are good for the average $45,000 per year and Georgia collects 6% of the AGI, I figure they’ll have that investment recovered in no more than fifty or so years, give or take.
JKL2
February 27th, 2012
9:27 pm
Jay- Now please, preach to me again about this “self-sufficiency” thing again?
IL has taxed them out of the state. GA is just the lucky windfall recipients.
Recon 0311 2533
February 27th, 2012
9:27 pm
With more and more people no longer expected to contribute financially to federal government revenue support of the ever growing central government and with a shrinking base of tax payer support for same, how will we survive. I guess the Democrats have the answer but where the hell is it?
Jm
February 27th, 2012
9:28 pm
“Only losers beg for money from the government.”
I think jay just insulted everyone on welfare food stamps and assisted housing. Wow, jay has gone way over to the dark side. I wouldn’t even say such a thing.
Settle down jay…… Deep breaths
Lap number whatever going on right now, focus on the cars…. Going in circles
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
9:28 pm
Now please, preach to me again about this “self-sufficiency” thing again? I so love the rancid smell of hypocrisy in the evening….
In case you forgot, Jay, I’m not an elected official. And personally, I’m not a supporter of getting in bed with businesses. However, $58 of the $68 million you listed is in the form of tax forgiveness. That’s money that wouldn’t be there anyway without the new plant. If the long-term result of the new commerce brings in a steady tax stream, then it’s likely a good tradeoff. I’m sure that was the motivation of the GOP leadership.
You have a different interpretation?? Would you rather see the plant go elsewhere??
Tom(Independent-Viet Vet)
February 27th, 2012
9:30 pm
I do not particularily care for any of the GOP candidates but Barrack Obama completely disgusts me. Apologize to the Afghans because our troops burned their precious Quran, after the prisoners wrote in it sending messages to each other. Then several US troops are killed by Afghan soldiers who disapprove but no apology from the Afghan President? The US has given too much money and American lives to this uncivilized land and their savage people. Let them fend from themselves, take our troops and money and get the hell out. Nothing will ever change there! Stop all foreign aid to these savages, nothing will ever change there just like Iraq, Eqypt, Iran, Pakistan, for example!!!
They BOTH suck
February 27th, 2012
9:30 pm
“IL has taxed them out of the state. GA is just the lucky windfall recipients.”
Awesome…. Didn’t know they moved their headquarters out of Peoria and had shut down all operations in IL……
How that’s not case just the rhetoric…….
My bad
0311/1811
February 27th, 2012
9:30 pm
Recon 0311 2533 :
Did you catch this today ?
Headline: “OBAMA TO CUT HEALTHCARE FOR TROOPS…”
getalife
February 27th, 2012
9:31 pm
You would think that would end their welfare argument but they will ignore it Jay.
Jm
February 27th, 2012
9:31 pm
Recon
The answer is growth, entitlement reform, tax reform, and government operational improvements.
They’re only things republicans deliver (at least relative to Obama)
I bet rubin and Bowles and dimon vote for Romney
Jay
February 27th, 2012
9:32 pm
“The average wages for these jobs will be competitive with or greater than the current average wages in Athens-Clarke County of $37,596 and Oconee County of $33,748. “
Mr_B
February 27th, 2012
9:32 pm
“Not being taxed by the government is not a handout.’ But it is a gift of whatever services that government provides: police protection, fire services,water, sewerage, transportation infrastructure, etc. What’s the difference?
Jay
February 27th, 2012
9:34 pm
““Not being taxed by the government is not a handout.”
Yeah. Tell that to the “47 percent who don’t pay a penny in income taxes.”
Jm
February 27th, 2012
9:34 pm
Recon scout
Military leadership has acknowledged health care reform is needed in the military, though less than for civilian programs
The plan is to mostly ding higher paid officers and fully employed “retirees”
Fair or not, it will cushion the pain that would otherwise be felt at the infantry / non officer level
Jay
February 27th, 2012
9:35 pm
Oh, and then there’s that whole “government shouldn’t pick winners and losers” thing too.
Dems_R_Idiots
February 27th, 2012
9:35 pm
Yes let’s just ignore that gas prices are climbing & the Obozo’s approval numbers are heading south but hey he is a great poker player!
TaxPayer
February 27th, 2012
9:35 pm
Oops. Those jobs are lower paying than I thought. Make that payback period more like 75 years.
Recon 0311 2533
February 27th, 2012
9:36 pm
Oh well the left wing of the Democrat party, which encompasses pretty much all of it has no creditable answers only complaints about Republicans who may not have the answers either but at least they try. I have not seen any proposed solutions from Jay nor his faithful android followers even worthy of debate. Taps y’all
TaxPayer
February 27th, 2012
9:37 pm
Yeah. Tell that to the “47 percent who don’t pay a penny in income taxes.”
OUCH. Touche.
JKL2
February 27th, 2012
9:37 pm
Bruno- You have a different interpretation??
Tax increases are “spending cuts” in Demwit speak. Therefore lost potential income must be a expense increase. Try to keep up…
Brosephus™
February 27th, 2012
9:37 pm
Bruno
If you stop to look at it, it does make sense. One can think conservative when it comes to your personal opinions and ideals. However, you could also be liberal in that you don’t choose to force your opinions onto everyone else around you. Classical Liberalism is not the same thing that’s called liberal here in the US today. That goes the same for Classical Conservatism.
As far as AA, it’s a free market thing from where I see. It’s not as much as trying to right some wrongs from long ago, it’s to ensure that everybody has the same chance to try for success. When people ensure that chance is there for everyone, there will be no need for government to enforce it. As long as you have people trying to game the system, the government has to kind of ensure that doesn’t hinder people that are affected.
Jm
February 27th, 2012
9:38 pm
Jay I would prefer that all businesses were taxed equally (and therefore at a lower rate)
In a screwed up world where our federal government taxes more than any other nation on earth, GA is trying to do what it can to bring back jobs to America, not an easy task
I thought you guys were in favor of in-sourcing
Sure there shouldn’t be a million tax breaks
There wouldn’t need to be if American taxation was a sane affair
Dems_R_Idiots
February 27th, 2012
9:38 pm
Obozo apology to his islamic buddies because the burning of the garbage known as the Koran – pathetic
Obozo’s lack of apology for having the cross covered at Notre Dame – pathetic
getalife
February 27th, 2012
9:38 pm
Not only do they have collective amnesia about the collapse, they use selective positions like the one on welfare.
Earth to cons, you can’t be for corporate welfare then against welfare.
Good grief.
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
9:39 pm
Yeah. Tell that to the “47 percent who don’t pay a penny in income taxes.”
Not paying income taxes isn’t a “handout” per se. Earned income credits by which single-on-paper moms get tax “refunds” of $8500 is a handout. At least there is an expected long-term profit with the Caterpillar giveaway.
Dems_R_Idiots
February 27th, 2012
9:40 pm
Maybe Obozo can head over to Vegas and win lots of money. The Democratic clowns in this state sure do need some cash.
Jm
February 27th, 2012
9:40 pm
Im more concerned about the Falcons subsidies than the Cat subsidies, just to it things in perspective here
In an ideal world, Cat wouldn’t get a thing
Tax reform negates the need for this kind of BS
Brosephus™
February 27th, 2012
9:41 pm
IL has taxed them out of the state. GA is just the lucky windfall recipients.
Seeing as though Catepillar spoke of moving production from Japan to Georgia so that they would be closer to clients in the US and Europe, I’m gonna assume that you mean IL, Japan taxed them out of state. Otherwise, I’d file that talking point in the back of the filing cabinet never to be used again, if I were you. No production moved from Illinois.
““Not being taxed by the government is not a handout.”
Yeah. Tell that to the “47 percent who don’t pay a penny in income taxes.”
Damn, that one hurt!!!
They BOTH suck
February 27th, 2012
9:41 pm
“Earth to cons, you can’t be for corporate welfare then against welfare.”
Oh yes you can…….. It is all about semantics and linguistics…. As long as you convince yourself it is not “welfare” then damn it, it isn’t
JKL2
February 27th, 2012
9:41 pm
They both- Didn’t know they moved their headquarters out of Peoria and had shut down all operations in IL……
Rome wasn’t built in a day. They just said it would be a cold day in he!! before they built another plant in IL.
They BOTH suck
February 27th, 2012
9:42 pm
JKL2
See Bro @ 9:41
Thanks
0311/1811
February 27th, 2012
9:43 pm
jm:
I’m sure this is a complicated issue but read the article. I would be interested in knowing how it might affect Jay’s parents but he doesn’t “exchange” with me anymore. The VFW is against it as a “breach of faith”:
“The Obama administration’s proposed defense budget calls for military families and retirees to pay sharply more for their healthcare, while leaving unionized civilian defense workers’ benefits untouched. The proposal is causing a major rift within the Pentagon, according to U.S. officials. Several congressional aides suggested the move is designed to increase the enrollment in Obamacare’s state-run insurance exchanges.
The disparity in treatment between civilian and uniformed personnel is causing a backlash within the military that could undermine recruitment and retention.”
Congressional hearings will be held. That should prove interesting.
http://freebeacon.com/trashing-tricare/
They BOTH suck
February 27th, 2012
9:44 pm
JKL2
Is that what they said? Really?
In the email, the company says it considered factors including port access and labor markets in deciding Illinois won’t work. The email also says a key factor was proximity to Caterpillar’s division headquarters in Cary, N.C.
Read more: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20120208/NEWS05/120209797/caterpillar-rules-out-relocating-plant-in-illinois#ixzz1ndmpIzdZ
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0311/1811
February 27th, 2012
9:44 pm
Dems_R_Idiots :
I agree. People are getting tired to “kowtowing” to Islmaic sensitivities.
Time for THEM to change and get in the 21st century.
bman
February 27th, 2012
9:45 pm
So, I’m guessing that, of all of the states that were trying to lure Caterpillar, It was Georgia that offered the best bribe. I’m sure (without searching) that all of the states were offering Caterpillar some great incentives.
Any idea how long it will be until they begin construction and hiring?
Recon 0311 2533
February 27th, 2012
9:45 pm
“Fair or not, it will cushion the pain that would otherwise be felt at the infantry / non officer level”
You may want to evaluate it from the perspective of those considering re-enlistment or furthering their career as officers. I understand it’s difficult for those who’ve remained civilians but many who’ve actually served believe from their experience these cut backs will undermine the all volunteer military.
0311/1811
February 27th, 2012
9:45 pm
Excuse me: “Islamic” …………….. Oh, no I’ve done it now.
Mr_B
February 27th, 2012
9:45 pm
Bruno: You might recall that the EIC was a product of the Reagan administration, designed to make work more desirable than direct government payments,and to essentially remove some wage pressure on low-paying employers. Prior to EIC, those funds were being paid in direct welfare. To get an EIC, you have to have a job.
They BOTH suck
February 27th, 2012
9:46 pm
JKL2
They cited numerous reasons, including business climate and state debt…. but cant find the cold day part
Help me out
Thanks
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
9:46 pm
When people ensure that chance is there for everyone, there will be no need for government to enforce it. As long as you have people trying to game the system, the government has to kind of ensure that doesn’t hinder people that are affected.
Bro–Again, I see the motivation for society to try to reach out to historically disadvantaged groups. In isolation, it makes all the sense in the world. However, if the long-term goal is to create a color-blind society, creating laws which either favor or disfavor individuals due to their racial identity will never get us there. As the saying goes “You can’t steal second with one foot on first”.
0311/1811
February 27th, 2012
9:47 pm
Recon 0311 2533 :
You are absolutely correct. Once you know the nation does not keep its agreement to its miliatary and veterans ………… recruitment will suffer or the quality will go down.
Jay
February 27th, 2012
9:48 pm
“Earned income credits by which single-on-paper moms get tax “refunds” of $8,500 is a handout.”
In reality:
“Tax Year 2012 maximum credit:
— $5,891 with three or more qualifying children”
getalife
February 27th, 2012
9:48 pm
“Time for THEM to change and get in the 21st century.”
They don’t want to change.
They want the occupiers to get out of their country.
And they will get that change.
They BOTH suck
February 27th, 2012
9:49 pm
Scout
“Once you know the nation does not keep its agreement to its miliatary and veterans”
I understand your point, however when you say “agreement”; is there an insurance benefit price that is guaranteed?
Recon 0311 2533
February 27th, 2012
9:49 pm
Okay, I’m out…hopefully by this time next year we’ll have a fool out of office but a lot will need to be done in order for the country to clean up the mess.
getalife
February 27th, 2012
9:53 pm
Montoya crashes into the jet dryer and there is fire on the track.
Never seen that.