Obama’s poker instincts on view in presidency
The other day I stumbled across a Time magazine piece published back in July 2008, soon after John McCain and Barack Obama had emerged as their parties’ nominees. The premise of the piece was that both men liked to gamble, and that “games of chance have been not just a hobby but also a fundamental feature of their development as people and politicians.”
McCain, for example, loves to play craps, which the piece describes as “a game for showmen, Hollywood stars and basketball legends with girls on their arms.” Dice in hand, money on the table, a crowd gathered along the rails to cheer him on, a craps player basks in attention and adrenalin.
“For McCain, jaunts to the craps table helped burnish his image as a political hot dog who relishes the thrill of a good fight,” the Time piece notes, “even if the risk of failure was high.”
I’m usually wary of pieces that attempt to psycho-analyze candidates, especially when viewed through a single lens such as their choice of gambling outlets. But in hindsight, McCain’s subsequent behavior validated the Time thesis. A few weeks after the piece appeared, he rolled the dice in a high-stakes gamble on Sarah Palin, and did so again when he announced that he was suspending his campaign to rush back to Washington to save the American economy. Neither gamble paid off, but they were consistent with his personality.
Obama, on the other hand, is a poker player by nature. As an Illinois state senator, he was a regular in a weekly late-night poker game among lobbyists and fellow legislators. Interviewing other regulars in those games, the Time reporters found that Obama had a reputation as a conservative player. He’d fold losing hands quickly, but if he chose to stay in the game, it usually meant he had calculated the odds and was in it to win. Rather than force things, he patiently let the game come to him:
“The stakes were low enough — $1 ante and $3 top raise — to afford a long shot. Not Obama. He studied the cards as closely as an 11th-hour amendment to a bill. The odds were religion to him. Only rarely did he bluff….”
Obama’s play-to-win approach drove other players crazy. Former state Sen. Larry Walsh, a conservative corn farmer from Joliet, once got ready to pull in a pot with a four-of-a-kind hand. But Obama had four of a kind too, of higher rank. Walsh slammed down his cards. “Doggone it, Barack, if you were more liberal in your card-playing and more conservative in your politics, you and I would get along much better,” he said.
In hindsight, that also seems to have been prescient. As president, Obama has tended to abandon losing hands quickly, often to the frustration of liberal supporters who want to see him fight it out. However, when he draws a strong hand, the last few years have proved that he plays it well and reaps maximum advantage from it.
– Jay Bookman
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893 comments Add your comment
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
1:34 pm
But hey, I’m sure you have a better solution, let’s here it. Is the system working now?
System definitely NOT working now, but it’s not the fault of free enterprise. It’s the lack of free enterprise for the most part. Medical schools limit the number of grads, state boards limit the number of new MDs. Prices out of line with what the market should bear due to an over-reliance on the third-party payment system. Wages way above average across the board. Nobody’s going broke with our current system except the consumers, which I expect to change little with ACA.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 27th, 2012
1:34 pm
Santorum won’t be a gambler. He’ll be too busy tacking up “Ten Commanments” plaques in all our town halls and courts.
Fred ™
February 27th, 2012
1:34 pm
USinUK: I had a little of your mater soup left AND I had a little steak left (rare-med rare) SO I chopped up the steak, added it to the soup, and popped it in the microwave.
Completely awesome. The beef really took to the curry and mater taste (not that i would make it with beef). That was some really good soup. Thanks again for the recipe and the site. I’ll do some of the others.Maybe the beet soup next……
Doggone/GA
February 27th, 2012
1:36 pm
“Wouldn’t you much prefer someone acting strictly or mostly from principle, even if he or she were the first?”
Why do you equate being a good poker player with having no principles? And no, if I think the leaders “principles” are WRONG I would NOT want them acting on those principles.
(ir)Rational
February 27th, 2012
1:38 pm
Bruno – So you’re advocating non-licensed doctors and nurses that don’t have to go to accredited medical schools? I think I would rather stick with what we have no than take my chances with that idea. And the wages are fairly consistent for the amount of time and money it takes to become a doctor. Similar to lawyers having high salaries, but few complain about that because most people realize they have to sacrifice a lot to go to law school and build a successful practice.
Thulsa Doom
February 27th, 2012
1:40 pm
irRational,
Nope. My mistake. Nevertheless Jay still seems to have an adoring view that this guy can do no wrong.
If Obama were to tell his minions that a turd smelled like lotus blossom you would see a lot of Obamabots strangely lifting turds to their noses in expected nasal delight.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 27th, 2012
1:41 pm
I guess tomorrow and Weds will be all Mitt and Saint Rick on here. Be interesting to see which way Michigan goes.
mm
February 27th, 2012
1:41 pm
Snooze.
Another typical day of cons complaining but offering no solutions other than the tired mantra “Our party will solve all of our problems”. Well, the GOP made huge gains in 2010, and what have they accomplished? They’ve renamed alot of post offices.
(ir)Rational
February 27th, 2012
1:42 pm
Thulsa – That would be funny, but I think you overestimate the ignorance of some of these people. I would say it wouldn’t be more than maybe 75% of them or so.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 27th, 2012
1:42 pm
this guy can do no wrong.
I guess Thulsa doesn’t realize the far left is really po’d at Obama for not going far enough on certain things.
Towncrier
February 27th, 2012
1:42 pm
“Why do you equate being a good poker player with having no principles? And no, if I think the leaders “principles” are WRONG I would NOT want them acting on those principles.”
Actually, to me the very dismaying thing is that hardly any candidate of either stripe spends much time articulating principles for the policies or they espouse. I mostly see rhetoric and campaign promises. I think we are at a point that we need a lot more than that. But that’s just me.
TaxPayer
February 27th, 2012
1:42 pm
Oh NO! Republicans have invaded Venezuela! If I were a gambler, I’d bet that deal will not work out in the long run.
Midori
February 27th, 2012
1:43 pm
off topic but completely HILARIOUS!!
http://images1.dailykos.com/i/user/2722/TMW2012-02-29colorKOS.png
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 27th, 2012
1:45 pm
So you’re advocating non-licensed doctors and nurses
I believe what Bruno is referring to is the effect of the controlled supply of doctors in this country. That works to keep some prices artificially high.
(ir)Rational
February 27th, 2012
1:45 pm
Midori – Yeah, that was pretty funny. Now, let’s not give them ideas. You don’t actually want that to be something they start considering do you?
mm
February 27th, 2012
1:46 pm
“If Obama were to tell his minions that a turd smelled like lotus blossom you would see a lot of Obamabots strangely lifting turds to their noses in expected nasal delight.”
No, only cons exhibit that type of irrational behavior. For example, I offer up the following turds for your amusement:
Cain
Palin
Gingrich
Romney
Santorum
Bachman
Perry
(ir)Rational
February 27th, 2012
1:46 pm
Finn – It isn’t so much controlled as it is that people just can’t pass the tests or handle the school. Personally, I’m happy with that part of the system.
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
1:46 pm
So you’re advocating non-licensed doctors and nurses that don’t have to go to accredited medical schools?
If that’s the conclusion you drew from my statement, then I do say you have earned your moniker.
And the wages are fairly consistent for the amount of time and money it takes to become a doctor. Similar to lawyers having high salaries, but few complain about that because most people realize they have to sacrifice a lot to go to law school and build a successful practice.
I’m not just talking about doctors, dude. RTs in Atlanta can pull down $60K + depending on their specialty. RNs routinely make $70K + in Atlanta. It’s across the board. Not so much in the legal world, which doesn’t artificially limit the number of grads and licenses. Yor top attorneys make beaucoup dollars, but the average attorney is struggling, which at least gives the consumer some choices. I interviewed 3 attorneys a few years back, ranging from $200 per hour to $400 per hour. I eventually chose the most expensive guy, but at least I had a choice. Very little price transparency in healthcare.
Thulsa Doom
February 27th, 2012
1:47 pm
“Under my energy plan prices will necessarily skyrocket”- Obama
The one campaign promise he didn’t lie about.
F. Sinkwich
February 27th, 2012
1:47 pm
Hard to believe the high cost of gas is a strong hand to play, but at least he showed his cards:
“In September 2008, Barack Obama’s”Nobel-prize winning physicist” of an Energy Secretary, Steven Chu, told the Wall Street Journal: “Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe.”
“In 2008, then-candidate Barack Obama admitted that, like his future Energy Secretary Mr. Chu, he believed that high gas prices would be a good thing because they would force Americans to ween themselves off of oil, but that he would have “prefered a gradual adjustment.”
Yet the lib ilks and other delusional voters elected this euro-socialist knowing full well energy costs would significantly escalate as a result.
What’s the going rate for a gallon of algae?
F. Sinkwich
February 27th, 2012
1:49 pm
“Well, the GOP made huge gains in 2010, and what have they accomplished?”
The House has successfully applied a brake to O’bozo’s euro-socialist job-killing policies.
Thanks for asking.
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
1:50 pm
Well, the GOP made huge gains in 2010, and what have they accomplished?
Economy much improved since the Repubs limited the nonsense coming out of Congress, thank you.
Mick
February 27th, 2012
1:54 pm
**Economy much improved since the Repubs limited the nonsense coming out of Congress, thank you**
It’s that type of thinking many would call illogical, simplistic observation applied to complex realities, nice try…
Doggone/GA
February 27th, 2012
1:55 pm
“since the Repubs limited the nonsense coming out of Congress,”
Ok, so what bills did they actually stop that would have made the economy worse?
Netbanker
February 27th, 2012
1:56 pm
I agree with Bruno on ObamaCare. It may look like he won with passage of the bill, but the devil is in the details and I fully suspect those details are going to bite us in the rear, HARD! Didn’t they have to add something to a bill to override part of the health care bill because folks realize the actual consequence?
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 27th, 2012
1:56 pm
http://www.salon.com/2012/02/27/vote_fraud_retires_shameless_gop_official/
wow, the hypocrisy
JamVet - There are two types of Republicans, millionaires and suckers.
February 27th, 2012
1:57 pm
So the economy is improving?
According the daily, fact-free tirades here, BHO is only destroying it.
Which is it?
This is all so cornfusing?!
And had McCain/Palin been running the show, unemployment would be down to 2% and gas would be $2 a gallon now, right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auDv6cf2PBM
TaxPayer
February 27th, 2012
1:57 pm
Almost two years after the Deepwater Horizon oil drilling rig spewed nearly five million barrels of oil into the Gulf of Mexico, making it the largest oil spill in U.S. history, BP (BP) is close to cutting a $14 billion settlement deal with thousands of plaintiffs.
A massive civil lawsuit brought against BP, the oil giant who had leased the faulty Macondo deepwater oil well, was scheduled to begin Monday but was postponed one week by U.S. District Judge Carl Barbier. More than 120,000 plaintiffs are suing BP in the civil lawsuit, many of whom are local businesses and individuals impacted by the April 20, 2010 Gulf of Mexico spill.
It must be a bunch of danged Democrats trying to get huge settlements out of the oil company for a little inconvenient spill! Don’t they realize that they’ll only make BP charge us more for oil!
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
1:58 pm
It’s that type of thinking many would call illogical, simplistic observation applied to complex realities, nice try…
Mick–Hide your head in the sand all you want, but all of the major legislation coming out of the first two years had a dampening effect on business, from the new banking and credit card laws to the threat of new health insurance mandates. But I forgive you, being from North Jersey and all……
TaxPayer
February 27th, 2012
2:00 pm
“since the Repubs limited the nonsense coming out of Congress,”
Yes, limiting the Republican bills does in fact limit the nonsense coming out of Congress.
Paul
February 27th, 2012
2:00 pm
Fun piece, Jay.
Another characteristic I’ve noticed with the Pres – he learns from his opponents and adapts. And his opponents aren’t solely in the opposing party.
True too, AmVet. Hope the guy has at least another 20 years in him to fight the self-serving oligarchs.
F. Sinkwich
“What’s the going rate for a gallon of algae?”
Might I suggest a course of action when you hear something on talk radio or anywhere else, for that matter? Go to Google, type in a few key words and evaluate the results? That way you won’t be embarrassed by repeating what other listeners take in as pure truth?
If you’d do that with what Rush is saying about the Pres and algae, you’d find out (as I referenced in the previous thread, you can do a quick search) one of the major drivers of R&D and testing fuels and lubricants derived from algae have been the general officers in the Dept of Defense.
But the talk show clowns won’t attack senior soldiers. Just the Pres. Because they’re so concerned with truth and honest evaluation.
Thulsa Doom
February 27th, 2012
2:00 pm
Mick,
Whether you want to admit it or not the business community did squat, basically shed jobs and sat on cash when O and the Ds controlled all of Congress. It was only when the Rs took over the House that the business community felt more confident and things started to pick up. The thinking is that with the Rs in the house they can stalemate and thwart some of the damage O has or can do.
Conversely take a look at unemployment under W. Unemployment began to rise the month the Dems took over Congress back in 06 and the rest is history. Coincidence? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Just odd how that happens. Just like its coincidence that things really didn’t start to look better on the economic front until the Rs took over the house.
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
2:00 pm
Hey NetB–Great to see you. Hope life is good.
Verbal Kint
February 27th, 2012
2:00 pm
I used to be in this barbershop quartet in Skokie, IL.
Netbanker
February 27th, 2012
2:01 pm
Let’s chat about that Fair Pay for women thing for a moment. Too often the reporting is misleading because they report on average pay across all jobs, but fail to acknowledge that many women take lower paying jobs that offer much higher flexibility and/or shorter work hours. That isn’t an accurate measure of women’s earning power since women are overrepresented in some fields like teaching, hair stylists, manicurist, child care workers, etc. If the reports were per industry or job classification then we’re talking apples to apples and the difference in pay between the sexes pretty much disappears.
But it’s a real feel good issue to try to draw women voters.
Doggone/GA
February 27th, 2012
2:02 pm
“coming out of the first two years had a dampening effect on business, from the new banking and credit card laws to the threat of new health insurance mandates”
I see, so they DIDN’T stop all those “economy dampening” bills after all. Thanks for clearing THAT up.
(ir)Rational
February 27th, 2012
2:03 pm
Bruno – Please explain to me exactly how the system “artificially limits” the number of medical professionals there are. I was under the impression that anyone that had the aptitude could go to medical school or nursing school and get their license, but I guess you have inside information that the rest of us don’t have? Yeah, doctors are expensive, but have you ever stopped and thought about why (except for some theory that the state boards are “artificially limiting” the number) that could be? And while you may claim you don’t have a choice in your medical care, you do. Yeah, when you go to the ER, they don’t necessarily give you a price list saying “okay, stitches cost x, and pain medicine costs y, can you afford one or do you think you can get the stitches without the meds?” but for major treatments, they do in fact have a price list, and if you work at it, you can shop around and find a better price. Trust me on that one, I’ve been there and done that. Interesting to know that you don’t agree with the market setting the price for wages though. Guess the government should come in and do that?
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 27th, 2012
2:05 pm
during the Bush administration’s unprecedented years-long attempt to prosecute “voter fraud” cases, they were unable to find a single case of in-person polling place impersonation — the only type of voter fraud such [voter ID] laws might serve to deter — across the entire nation.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 27th, 2012
2:07 pm
It was only when the Rs took over the House that the business community felt more confident and things started to pick up
Oh, so NOW the conservatives are ready to admit the economy is improving – I guess they just had to figure out how to frame it in terms that make Republicans look like heroes?
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
2:08 pm
I was under the impression that anyone that had the aptitude could go to medical school or nursing school and get their license, but I guess you have inside information that the rest of us don’t have?
No inside info needed–There are a limited amount of slots available. For example, here’s the link to Grady’s RT program:
http://www.gradyhealth.org/imaging/
35 students per year accepted.
JohnnyReb
February 27th, 2012
2:08 pm
So Obama folds unless dealt a sure winner? That must mean he will soon announce folding on Obamacare. A new USA Today poll found the majority so high for repeal in swing states they were embarrassed to print the number. Instead, they just state “a clear majority.”
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-02-23/swing-states-health-care-obama/53260222/1
mm
February 27th, 2012
2:08 pm
“Hide your head in the sand all you want, but all of the major legislation coming out of the first two years had a dampening effect on business, from the new banking and credit card laws to the threat of new health insurance mandates. ”
“Whether you want to admit it or not the business community did squat, basically shed jobs and sat on cash when O and the Ds controlled all of Congress. It was only when the Rs took over the House that the business community felt more confident and things started to pick up.”
You cons are funny. Pathetic, but funny.
Thulsa Doom
February 27th, 2012
2:11 pm
Finn McCool,
And yet dead people still find a way to vote every year. But there’s no voter fraud of course.
(ir)Rational
February 27th, 2012
2:12 pm
Bruno – You’re right! Limiting the number of students to the number that can successfully be taught by the available instructors is a HUGE conspiracy. You don’t think that EVERY school in the country has a limit on the number of students they can successfully teach in each class? I guess though that Grady is the ONLY place that teaches that? What? You say it isn’t? That there are other places around the country (and even others in Metro Atlanta?!?!?!?!) that teach it? Guess that “artificially limits” (really not sure what the “artificially” part is) your argument.
Doggone/GA
February 27th, 2012
2:12 pm
“So Obama folds unless dealt a sure winner?”
Still working on that reading comprehension I see. You need to work harder, you’re not there yet.
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
2:12 pm
Trust me on that one, I’ve been there and done that. Interesting to know that you don’t agree with the market setting the price for wages though. Guess the government should come in and do that?
I’m not recommending setting wages, I’m recommending allowing free market forces to be allowed to work in the first place. The government enforces anti-trust in other areas of business, so why not health care??
Thulsa Doom
February 27th, 2012
2:12 pm
mm,
Not as funny as your empty retort.
Doggone/GA
February 27th, 2012
2:12 pm
“And yet dead people still find a way to vote every year. But there’s no voter fraud of course”
Got proof of that?
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 27th, 2012
2:13 pm
iRational, those tests don’t just appear out of thin air – divined by God. They are written by the AMA or whomever.
Just like the Bar Association and lawyers, medical professionals live in a symbiotic relationship with the AMA. Those controlling entities are set up to limit the number of participants in order to keep the wages high. The more hurdles you put in place, the fewer the number of qualified applicants for school and certification. Both entities – the organization and the professionals who are members of the organization – feed off each other. Those hurdles are artificial barriers put in place to limit the number of participants.
Same thing goes for accountants.
Recon 0311 2533
February 27th, 2012
2:13 pm
The Korans were burned because the jihadists were using them to pass jihadist messages among the prisoners. In effect the jihadists were responsible for desecrating their Holy word. Now you couldn’t present that point to this mob in Afghanistan but you would certainly hope that most intelligent thinking Americans would understand and not agree that we should have to apologize.
(ir)Rational
February 27th, 2012
2:13 pm
Bruno – I guess we’re looking at two different systems here, or maybe it is my youth, but I’m not seeing a giant monopoly that controls all of the health care systems around the country/world.
TaxPayer
February 27th, 2012
2:14 pm
According to the GOP faithful, whatever the Republicans did, it correlated perfectly with the recovery from their Great Recession.
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
2:15 pm
I guess though that Grady is the ONLY place that teaches that?
There are a limited number of “accredited” programs. Not sure why you can’t grasp that concept.
JamVet - There are two types of Republicans, millionaires and suckers.
February 27th, 2012
2:15 pm
Love that way cool Bonnie Raitt. A political agitator and slide guitar player of the highest caliber.
Raitt recorded the other eight songs on Slipstream with her longtime touring band, including a reggae-tinged cover of Gerry Rafferty’s “Right Down the Line” and a funked-up spin on Randall Bramblett’s “Used to Rule the World.” “To me, that song is about the Occupy movement,” Raitt says of the latter.
“It’s about the kind of hubris America has had, as if there are no consequences.”
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bonnie-raitt-tackles-occupy-wall-street-personal-tragedy-on-new-album-20120123
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZABHUJd6WQ
F. Sinkwich
February 27th, 2012
2:18 pm
“one of the major drivers of R&D and testing fuels and lubricants derived from algae have been the general officers in the Dept of Defense.”
Yeah, I saw that link you posted to an Eco-weenie website hosted by those with a vested interest in Eco- boondoggles, Paul.
The military should be buying bullets and such, not spending tax dollars on lib ilk wet dreams.
JohnnyReb
February 27th, 2012
2:18 pm
Doggone – comprehend this – the majority of voters in swing states want Obamacare repealed. They won’t ensure repeal by voting for Obama. Is that plain enough for you or do we need to go over each syllable.
Kamchak
February 27th, 2012
2:18 pm
“Now I find myself fully occupied and half alive
With your head, heart, arms and legs wrapped around my family pride
See the whites of their eyes then shoot
With all the romance of the Ton Ton Macoute”
– Thomas Jefferson
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
2:19 pm
but I’m not seeing a giant monopoly that controls all of the health care systems around the country/world
Perhaps you are unaware of the accreditation process, then. To apply for most professional licenses, you must first attend an “accredited” school. Then, the licensing board can raise or lower the passing standards at will in order to limit the number of licensees each year. Of course, the accrediting agencies are all populated by members of that profession, who have an economic interest in limiting the number of new licensees. The same thing happens outside of the health care profession as well. Is Stevie Ray pokes his head in, he can tell you all about the actuarial exams, which are “curved” such that the majority of applicants will automatically fail.
(ir)Rational
February 27th, 2012
2:20 pm
Finn – Shoot, and here I’ve been laboring under the impression that having well qualified doctors and nurses that kept up with current developments in their profession was a good thing. Man, you’ve really opened my eyes on this one! I have seen the light! Everyone, I now declare myself a doctor, and you can all come to my house where I’ll be preforming surgeries and doing exams from 5:30 pm to 11:00 pm every evening. Just make an appointment first!
Recon – Yeah, it is horrible to apologize for doing something that upsets a large number of people. No one is saying that destroying the Korans wasn’t right, we’re just saying that the way they did it wasn’t right. Maybe, if they had of gotten some Muslim clerics to dispose of them properly that would have been better, and proper, but they didn’t so they screwed up and if it will have any chance of stopping more soldiers from losing their lives, then it is most certainly proper that they apologize.
Don't Forget
February 27th, 2012
2:20 pm
Does anybody know if the Koran’s were burned “by themselves” or alongside trash and other refuse. That would seem to me to be the most pertinent issue. Yes the prisoners were using them to pass notes to each other which is not allowed but that would not justify burning them alongside trash which would be a stupid and disrespectful act.
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
2:22 pm
the majority of voters in swing states want Obamacare repealed. They won’t ensure repeal by voting for Obama. Is that plain enough for you or do we need to go over each syllable.
JohnnyReb–I can only hope that the Repub candidates can keep this alive as a current issue. With so much time between the passage and implementation of the bill, might be easy for folks to forget about it. The fines are on the way unless the SC intervenes first.
Mick
February 27th, 2012
2:23 pm
doomy/bruno
If we go by your logic about republicans and the economy, then this country should have been going gangbusters by the end of bush’s 2nd term. Instead, what we got was that day of infamy in 08 where bush uttered those great words of wisdom, “this sucker could go down”. Yeah, republican policies my arse and don’t give me that tripe about the dems taking over congress causing it, that didn’t happen until january 07…
Doggone/GA
February 27th, 2012
2:24 pm
“Doggone – comprehend this – the majority of voters in swing states want Obamacare repealed”
got proof of that?
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 27th, 2012
2:25 pm
Trade and immigration are not the only tools that the nanny state conservatives use to ensure a plentiful supply of less skilled labor and a relatively limited supply of more highly skilled labor. They also rely on government licensing requirements to limit the number of people who can work as doctors, lawyers, and in other professions requiring substantial education and/or training. Government licensing means that the nanny state arrests anyone who competes without the appropriate permit.
Licensing requirements do have a legitimate function: they can be a way to ensure quality. When we go to a doctor, we want to know that the person we see is more likely to make us well than to make us sicker. But the actual practice of issuing and controlling licenses is generally designed more to restrict the number of doctors, lawyers, architects, etc., than to ensure the quality of the services these people provide.8 Perhaps the most obvious way to recognize this fact is that the professional organizations themselves usually have a large amount of control over the number of people who are licensed into a profession in a state. If an association of dishwashers or custodians got to decide the number of people who could legally work as dishwashers or custodians, it is likely that the wages in these occupations would rise considerably.
http://deanbaker.net/images/stories/documents/cns.html#2
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
2:25 pm
Shoot, and here I’ve been laboring under the impression that having well qualified doctors and nurses that kept up with current developments in their profession was a good thing.
You’re creating a false dichotomy, Irrational. What makes you think increasing the number of med school grads will result in unqualified doctors??
(ir)Rational
February 27th, 2012
2:25 pm
Bruno – I know all about professional licensing processes. I’m working through it now. But I still see it as a very good thing in certain professions that they put you “through the ringer” to insure that only those that are actually qualified are able to practice.
mm
February 27th, 2012
2:26 pm
“Not as funny as your empty retort.”
I don’t respond to con lies. It’s not worth the effort, because if one believes a lie, the truth certainly won’t change their beliefs.
They BOTH suck
February 27th, 2012
2:27 pm
Don’t Forget
If I am no mistaken the Korans were burned along with other material that was being used to pass notes and information
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 27th, 2012
2:28 pm
With so much time between the passage and implementation of the bill, might be easy for folks to forget about it.
LOL. Bruno, it’s already being implemented. In fact, some will say it will now cost more to dismantle what has been put in place than to just proceed with it.
(ir)Rational
February 27th, 2012
2:29 pm
Bruno – No, I’m not creating a false dichotomy there. I’m simply stating that having a board that forces these doctors, lawyers, nurses, accountants, ect. to go through licensing processes, and go to classes where they learn about developing trends and technologies isn’t a bad thing. Maybe you want your doctor to have last stepped in a classroom in 1980, but I want mine to be a bit more up-to-date than that. Also, no one is forcing these people to become doctors, they chose that on their own.
JamVet - There are two types of Republicans, millionaires and suckers.
February 27th, 2012
2:29 pm
As if there wasn’t enough to dig her, sweet Bonnie has endorsed and contributed money to my political activist/consumer advocate hero, Ralph Nader.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0bzu8y0eZY&feature=related
Adam
February 27th, 2012
2:29 pm
LOL I should have realized an “Obama success” post would get the FoxBots out talking about the thing they are talking about most now – gas prices.
Anyone want to wager on how many hours it takes after they drop that major talking point that the conservabots here follow the new one?
Adam
February 27th, 2012
2:30 pm
The military should be buying bullets and such, not spending tax dollars on lib ilk wet dreams.
I take that as an endorsement of cutting military spending back dramatically. Thanks Sinkwich!
Mick
February 27th, 2012
2:30 pm
bruno
As far as jersey goes, my uncle who is now 85 is very influential with the local politicians, gave me a peculiar answer when it comes to party. I asked him whether he was a democrat or republican? He said, “whichever party is in power that’s what I am”. hmmmm…
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
2:30 pm
Speaking of over-inflated salaries, how are you doing today, DF??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wva7a_HZUU4&feature=related
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 27th, 2012
2:31 pm
You don’t have to increase the number of med school grads. Just open the door to more qualified foreign doctors.
In 1997 Congress tightened the licensing rules for foreign doctors entering the country because of concerns by the American Medical Association and other doctors’ organizations that the inflow of foreign doctors was driving down their salaries. As a result, the number of foreign medical residents allowed to enter the country each year was cut in half.
(ir)Rational
February 27th, 2012
2:31 pm
Adam – I’ll bet you a $10,000 it only takes them about an hour.
Adam
February 27th, 2012
2:31 pm
Bruno: What makes you think increasing the number of med school grads will result in unqualified doctors??
What makes YOU think that just increasing the number of graduates will result in a different outcome?
Paul
February 27th, 2012
2:31 pm
F. Sinkwich
“Yeah, I saw that link you posted to an Eco-weenie website hosted by those with a vested interest in Eco- boondoggles, Paul.
The military should be buying bullets and such, not spending tax dollars on lib ilk wet dreams.”
You dismiss a story because of who repeated it?
You can go to DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Research Agency) or Military dot com or some of the DoD procurement websites and read all about it.
But I think you know that and don’t want to admit Rush, Hannity, et al are deliberately misleading you.
So you think DoD shouldn’t be purchasing fuel? You do know DoD needs fuel for aircraft, don’t you?
Or do you think they shouldn’t buy biofuel?
So you think general officers are wrong when they say being so reliant on mideast oil is a national security issue and to ensure advantage in future conflicts we need to get as little oil from them as possible?
Do you really think they are wrong?
JohnnyReb
February 27th, 2012
2:31 pm
Doggone – any you question my comprehension. I provided a link to the USA Today article in my original post. Here it is again:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-02-23/swing-states-health-care-obama/53260222/1
Bruno – opposition to Obamacare is alive and well. This USA Today poll was just taken. Check out the link.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 27th, 2012
2:34 pm
Well, I don’t know what kind of poker player he is but this Obama’s got the best luck in the world. Of all the times for the economy to take off like a hound dog with a rear end coated with turpentine, this is the worst. Our only hope now is gas prices might could shoot up to 5 or 6 bucks a gallon and we can pin it on him.
Like the fellow in that great show sings, “If it weren’t for bad luck I’d have no luck at all.” We left him with a mess like a poker hand with no face cards and no two of a kind and only two of one suit, and he done turned it into a royal flush.
We need this guy out of the White House and a godly Republican in there that can put the brakes on this Obamacare. We can get by with the health care we had. I know most of you wouldn’t mind turning your health over to Bruno or somebody like that. And you’ll probably be OK if he don’t mistake you for one of the women he takes out. Just be careful if he decides to check your rear end that both of his hands ain’t on your shoulders at the same time.
Have a good p.m. everybody.
USMC
February 27th, 2012
2:34 pm
Breaking News… Major Trouble in the Georgia DemocRat Party…
Turmoil in the Georgia DemocRat Party as the chief of staff of the party, Page Gleason, handed in her resignation…
Georgia Democratic party exec resigns; chairman denies financial crisis
http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2012/02/26/georgia-democratic-party-exec-resigns-chairman-denies-financial-crisis/
(Happy Birythday Mick!)
Paul
February 27th, 2012
2:34 pm
Don’t Forget
“Does anybody know if the Koran’s were burned “by themselves” or alongside trash and other refuse. That would seem to me to be the most pertinent issue. Yes the prisoners were using them to pass notes to each other which is not allowed but that would not justify burning them alongside trash which would be a stupid and disrespectful act.”
You can read about proper disposal methods on numerous Islamic-referenced websites.
All they had to do was wrap them and stick them in a secure safe somewhere and forget about them.
There was an obvious breakdown (amazing, ten years into a war) that should not happen again.
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
2:35 pm
Mick–My family has been all Dems as far back as I can see. I’m the first renegade.
(ir)Rational
February 27th, 2012
2:35 pm
Finn – But I thought we Americans should be willing to pay more for something that was “made in America?” Wouldn’t having more doctors that were educated outside the US go counter to that argument?
Adam
February 27th, 2012
2:35 pm
OH NO! People oppose “ObamaCare”! I suppose that means they also oppose the idea that insurance companies shouldn’t drop you because of an illness, or not insure you because of pre-existing conditions, or requiring large and mid-sized companies to provide health insurance to their employees, or allowing access to contraception….
Oh wait….
Mick
February 27th, 2012
2:36 pm
usmc
Thanks…monday is an interesting b-day, there’s just no mojo to celebrate it and I’m totally up with that…
Doggone/GA
February 27th, 2012
2:37 pm
JR – here’s a comprehension problem. That article is about “swing states” but then says “the president has failed to convince most Americans that it was the right thing to do”
Now, I don’t know about how YOU view it…but last time I looked ALL the states are not “swing” states. So which is it? A “clear majority” of voters in the SWING states, or a clear majority of voters in ALL the states?
Thulsa Doom
February 27th, 2012
2:38 pm
irRational,
No. I’ve read the same thing about medical schools and the like. They could expand to teach more except that in nursing I have heard that there is a shortage of RN instructors. At least that’s what the nursing schools say anyway.
Good example. My orthodontist clears 1 million a year. Orthodontistry school is very tough to get into and frankly there is absolutely no reason as to why they can’t produce more orthodontists. But I know for a fact that they keep the number of entrants very, very low. My ortho had to pay 100k as a “donation” to get his son into ortho school. Its really just a good ole boys club.
And I read a study where the most overpaid profession in America is the orthodontist. The girls who make 20k a year with no medical benefits do all the actual work and the ortho just checks their work.
Orthos even get together in “meetings” and discuss pricing- a clear violation of state law-collusion.I know this because one ortho that my family does work for walked out of the meeting after complaining to the others that this discussion was against the law.
My dad is a ortho lab man and I worked in the family business for 5-6 years so I know a lot about the ortho business since we literally worked directly with our ortho and his assistants. It always did bother me that they have the game rigged and that this is a guy who clears a million but won’t pay for health insurance for his girls and pays them really measley wages. Just doesn’t seem right and it almost brings out that little liberal hiding inside of Doomy.
And last thing and I’ll let it go. It now costs something like $6,000 on average for braces with him and to me a significant part of that is a tax so to speak on working families because of the collusion and the cap on orthodontists coming into the field. Its a classic case of the free market being denied and of the rich folks at the top making sure of limited entry. It just isn’t right.
Paul
February 27th, 2012
2:38 pm
Bruno
“My family has been all Dems as far back as I can see. I’m the first renegade.”
Can I have your inheritance?
Mick
February 27th, 2012
2:38 pm
bruno
Sometimes I think you are just playing the devil’s advocate but you definitely have a conservative slant. My sister and her husband are P.A,s and they lean conservative also, most in the medical professions do…
Erwin's cat
February 27th, 2012
2:38 pm
USinUK,
Capitulate – 1) To surrender unconditionally or on stipulated terms. 2) to give up resistance.
What’s so hard to understand?
JohnnyReb
February 27th, 2012
2:40 pm
Doggone – quit playing games. Swing states are critical to any candidate getting elected. If the majority of voters in swing states are agasint Obamacare, who do you think they will vote for, Obama?
Adam
February 27th, 2012
2:40 pm
Erwin: What’s so hard to understand?
How about the part that the definition you listed is in no way comparable to the definition for “apology”
Doggone/GA
February 27th, 2012
2:42 pm
“quit playing games”
They are reasoning beyond their data and it’s ME playing games? Try again.
Erwin's cat
February 27th, 2012
2:42 pm
Adam,
I never said it did or even attempted to make the comparison…
I meant “Go ahead and surrender…”
Common Sense
February 27th, 2012
2:43 pm
Another great fluff story…
Today he’s playing poker with other people’s money.
And the total debt clock says he is losing, and losing big.
Bruno
February 27th, 2012
2:43 pm
All they had to do was wrap them and stick them in a secure safe somewhere and forget about them.
Paul–Maybe it’s just me, but I see this somewhat contrived outrage by the Afghanis as a cover for their deeper frustration that we’re there in the first place. And not that I blame them much in that regard.
Maybe it was the straw that broke the camel’s back, but there were a pile of straws there already.
Mick
February 27th, 2012
2:43 pm
Americans are just plain all over the map when it comes to healthcare. Those that are against it, have no real solutions, they just hate it because they hate obama/dems. One thing is for sure, health care should not be run by companies for profit, that is the major problem…
USMC
February 27th, 2012
2:44 pm
“Thanks…monday is an interesting b-day, there’s just no mojo to celebrate it and I’m totally up with that…”–Mick
Yeah, I remember my last “Monday” B-Day. But I am sure you will come up with something down in South Florida.
I just got back from Sarasota and Palm Beach and must say the idea of living in Florida is awfully attractive.