Mitt in Wonderland: Shrink the debt AND cut taxes by 20%?
Rick Santorum points to the GOP's 2012 nominee to be president of the United States
Prior to last night’s debate, Mitt Romney released an updated version of his tax plan, which now calls for a 20 percent reduction in marginal tax rates across the board. And while the top tax rate would drop from 35 to 28 percent, Romney pledged yesterday afternoon that he would take steps to ensure that the top 1 percent wouldn’t reap huge benefits.
“And by the way, I want to make sure that you understand, for middle-income families, the deductibility of home mortgage interest and charitable contributions, those things will continue, but for high income folks, we are going to cut back on that so we make sure the top 1 percent keeps paying, paying the current share they’re paying or more. We want middle-income Americans to be the place we focus our help, because its middle-income Americans that have been hurt by this Obama economy.”
However, a few hours later, after Rush Limbaugh went on the air to condemn Romney for buying into the “1 percent vs. 99 percent” meme, and after Rick Santorum attacked him for the same thing, Romney changed his tune, asserting in the debate that “Number one, I said today that we’re going to cut taxes on everyone across the country by 20 percent, including the top 1 percent.”
Now, the vision of Romney publicly flip-flopping on his own plan in a matter of mere hours should not alarm you. The man’s a professional; he has done this kind of thing before. He can shown the ability to twist himself into knots that would break the spine of mere mortals. In fact, once his political career is over, he’s going on the road as a contortionist with Cirque du Soleil.
In the meantime, however, we have this tax plan to consider.
In the past, Romney has said that current debt trends are unsustainable, and they are. He has said it is immoral to continue to pile debt on our children and grandchildren, and it is. He argues that we’re going to have to make cuts in entitlement programs, and we will.
However, I do not know how it is possible to make such statements about the debt and then turn around and promise to “cut taxes on everyone across the country by 20 percent, including the top 1 percent,” as he did last night. Even for Romney, this is a challenging contortion.
The bipartisan Center for a Responsible Federal Budget (see note below) has taken a look at Romney’s new plan and has concluded that if he really does enact the promised 20 percent tax cut, federal debt as a percentage of GDP would rise from 68 percent in 2011 to 96 percent by 2021.
The CRFB has also analyzed the impact of the proposed Obama budget. Using what it believes to be more realistic economic and spending projections than provided by the administration, CFRB says that by 2021, the Obama approach would produce a debt-to-GDP ratio of 84 percent. While high, that is considerably lower than that produced under the Romney approach.
In the debate last night, Romney promised that if elected he would look at every federal program and ask, “Is this program so critical that it’s worth borrowing money from China to pay for it?” It’s an effective rhetorical device, and not a bad way to look at spending proposals either.
However, honest debate requires the admission that a 20 percent cut in taxes would also be financed by borrowing hundreds of billions of dollars from China and elsewhere. Over the long term, the hard truth is that to reclaim control of our fiscal future, we will have to raise taxes, not cut taxes, while we also reduce spending. To suggest that we can make progress on such a goal while slashing taxes yet again is economically, mathematically and morally fraudulent.
– Jay Bookman
NOTE: From 9:30 to 11 a.m., CFRB will present a streamed update of its analysis of the tax and budget plans of the Republican presidential nominees. It can be viewed here.
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307 comments Add your comment
Adam
February 23rd, 2012
9:19 am
FIRST
Cherokee
February 23rd, 2012
9:21 am
It’s been said before, of course, but the problem is the Republican base, who’ve been assured by the Neal Boortz’s of the world that cutting taxes results in increased revenues. And those are the true believers who turn out for Republican primaries.
Bruno
February 23rd, 2012
9:23 am
In fact, once his political career is over, he’s going on the road as a contortionist with Cirque du Soleil.
And once your newspaper career is over, you should consider writing jokes for Don Rickles. Or is his level of humor too high-brow for you, Jay??
Guy Incognito
February 23rd, 2012
9:24 am
“Britain’s New 50% Top Tax Is Failing to Boost Revenue, The UK Telegraph reports.”
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
9:25 am
I’m curious, did Romney also elaborate on how we would pay for ground troop in Iran with a 20% decrease in revenue without borrowing from China?
Orally Taint
February 23rd, 2012
9:25 am
and he can kiss the top 1% of my ass.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
9:26 am
I dont understand. I thought all we needed to do was cut $1 trillion being given to PBS and Planned Parenthood each year and we’ll be in a surplus again.
JohnnyReb
February 23rd, 2012
9:26 am
Did not watch the debate. I understand Santorum took some body blows. My money is still on Santorum. He may have teamed while in Congress and voted for spending, NCLB, etc., but he is more trustworthy than Romney who has all the marks of a snake oil salesman.
Bruno
February 23rd, 2012
9:26 am
Just a word of reassurance to the Libs who have been falling over themselves insulting the Repub candidates: We’re going to be just fine Post-Obama. All of the candidates turned in a strong debate performance, Mitt in particular.
As per whatever specific plans he may be advancing now, I’ll put them in the same circular file I put all politician’s campaign promises. Or do we need to rehash all of the empty promises that Obama made??
Peadawg
February 23rd, 2012
9:27 am
“Now, the vision of Romney publicly flip-flopping on his own plan in a matter of mere hours should not alarm you.” – Not at all. We’re used to it by now.
READ MY TYPED WORDS (since you can’t see my lips) – NO NEW TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH
Simple Truths
February 23rd, 2012
9:27 am
As bad as Jay’s blog is, remember, it is much better than Cynthia Tucker’s old blog.
TaxPayer
February 23rd, 2012
9:28 am
Too bad the Republicans do not want to share their math with us any more regarding their plans to pay down the debt. Ever since Paul Ryan’s plan was shown to be nothing more than a yellowbrick roadmap to a fairy tale, the GOP has been rather reluctant to share any more of their mathematical prowess.
ty webb
February 23rd, 2012
9:29 am
“I dont understand.”
we all know that.
Adam
February 23rd, 2012
9:29 am
I have a libertarian friend who consistently argues that we ONLY have a spending problem, that “the Left” says we ONLY have a revenue problem, and that despite my evidence and continued insistence based on fact, that we do not have BOTH a spending problem and a revenue problem. He followed this up with a number of articles from “Reason” that portray the revenue percent of GDP as “stable” and that the top marginal tax rates changed downward over many decades while that percent remained the same. The article curiously leaves out the last 4 years or so of data.
I intend to write up something about how this is NOT the case, that we DO have both a spending and revenue problem, and that focusing on just the top marginal tax rates and percent of GDP revenues ignores how else those taxes were collected, and is a significant reason for a 3-4% drop in revenue as percent of GDP lately.
To end the conversation I and my Libertarian friend were having, I pointed out that I have not heard a single pundit or politician claim we ONLY had a revenue problem. His reply:
“You’ve never heard it because everyone seems to be suffering from a collective case of group think (with the exception of libertarians).”
So everyone in every group suffers from group think, EXCEPT libertarians (a group).
I think such thinking is quite delusional and it doesn’t help make him seem like he knows what he is talking about at all.
They BOTH suck
February 23rd, 2012
9:29 am
“We’re going to be just fine Post-Obama.”
You have to admire an individual who thinks ahead. This guy is already thinking 2016…….
Good for you
Bruno
February 23rd, 2012
9:30 am
JReb–I still prefer Newt, but have to note that Romney is coming across better these days. Santorum still scares me with some of his Bible-thumper positions, but he took special pains last night to state that while he plans to continue to advocate a more moral course of action for the country, he doesn’t plan to use the force of government to bring it about.
Peadawg
February 23rd, 2012
9:30 am
“As bad as Jay’s blog is, remember, it is much better than Cynthia Tucker’s old blog.” – Don’t insult Jay like that by comparing him to Cynthia.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
9:31 am
We’re going to be just fine Post-Obama.
In 2016, there will be a new crop of GOP-crazy to amuse ourselves with. We’ll be fine!
Bruno doesn’t get that it’s a systemic problem. Ya can’t keep pushing the sane out of the tent and expect to win the big elections.
Joe the Prophet
February 23rd, 2012
9:31 am
Santorum is a nincompoop…and Mitt is not a Christian….Newt is….well, Newt…..
Gary Johnson and Ron Paul on the 3rd party is the only chance to defeat President Obama in 2012…….otherwise, it won’t matter if gas gets to $6.00 and unemployment gets to 12%…….
WOODSTOCK MIKE
February 23rd, 2012
9:31 am
I love when Democrats talk about income taxes. Read this article. These 50% that don’t pay a dime are the one’s with the loudest voice on who should be taxed. What’s really strange is that Democrats don’t even believe this is true?? What a joke…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2105131/HALF-Americans-dont-pay-income-tax-despite-crippling-government-debt.html
ty webb
February 23rd, 2012
9:32 am
“The CRFB has also analyzed the impact of the proposed Obama budget. Using what it believes to be more realistic economic and spending projections than provided by the administration,”
anyone else see what jay did there?
Joe the Prophet
February 23rd, 2012
9:32 am
I heard that gas is only 25 cents a gallon on the planet Kolob…..!!!!!
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
9:33 am
Do the GOP candidates ever review their own video? I’m still waiting to see the details of their grand plan that will allow them to reduce the price of gas to $2.50 a gallon without nationalizing the oil industry, pay for a moon base without raising taxes, fund an assault on Iran in defense of Israel with a 20% reduction in revenue….etc. While they’re at it, maybe they could raise the Titanic and use the tourist dollars to off set the defecit.
Jay
February 23rd, 2012
9:34 am
Shoot, Bruno, go to any right-wing blog and you’ll read far harsher critiques of the GOP candidates than almost anything you’ll read here.
The same with conservative pundits. I mean, have you read Ann Coulter on Newt and Rick, etc? And every poll I’ve seen says that a lot of conservatives are very unhappy that these are their choices.
So while you may find it useful to pretend that bashing this field of candidates is a liberal thing, the truth is very different.
Granny Godzilla
February 23rd, 2012
9:34 am
Wonderlands own earlier this week
“If you just cut, if all you’re thinking about doing is cutting spending, as you cut spending you’ll slow down the economy,” he said in part of his response. “So you have to, at the same time, create pro-growth tax policies.”
From MSN.com
One pill makes you bigger and one pill makes you small
it appears that whatever Mitt’s taking does nothing at all.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
9:34 am
Santorum is a nincompoop…and Mitt is not a Christian….Newt is….well, Newt…..
Interesting that people will go around telling other people who is and is not a Christian, like they have special God powers to determine that.
They BOTH suck
February 23rd, 2012
9:34 am
Jm
If you are on today, I want to extend an apology for my reply to your post last night. While you assertion on “earmarks” was incorrect and I did not appreciate being told to “shut up” because I challenged your incorrect talking points; I still shouldn’t have responded in the manner in which I did. For easily proving you incorrect (that’s not a difficult task) I do not apologize, but for my outburst, I do apologize.
I like to mix it up with the best of them; however I was out of hand.
In the future I will let you live in fantasy land and not address your unsubstantiated talking points and diatribes.
Peace…………
AmVet - Stop the Phallacy Party.
February 23rd, 2012
9:35 am
Sounds like Flip is getting dangerously close to being a Buffett plan kind of guy.
At least his rhetoric indicates that he is willing to start a war on the winners, the job producers and the demonized (hat tip to the trolls who love that word), misunderstood billionaires.
No wonder the fat mooch king of the airwaves went apoplectic.
As the con twits patiently await their long promised, never produced trickle down…
Bruno
February 23rd, 2012
9:35 am
Bruno doesn’t get that it’s a systemic problem.
Out of curiosity, ByteMe, what qualifies you to speak for or even about conservatives?? After all, it is the prevailing Lib theory that only blacks can speak for or about blacks, only women can speak for or about women. Why should I give your opinion more than a glancing thought??
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
9:36 am
I mean, have you read Ann Coulter on Newt and Rick, etc?
OMG, Jay, you poor guy, being forced to read her dreck for your job.
Fly-on-the-Wall
February 23rd, 2012
9:36 am
The funny thing will be, if elected, when the Republican voters get what they think they asked for and realize that they just lost everything they were either getting or counting on from the government.
There was a study recently that found a fair amount of Republicans in red states were the ones receiving Federal government aid but at the same time they would say that they had never received aid from the Federal government. The percentages of red state Republicans receiving this aid was higher than blue state Democrats. The interesting point is the disconnect by the voting public on what aid they receive and where it comes from.
JohnnyReb
February 23rd, 2012
9:36 am
Bruno – I’m old enough to recall the hubub of JFK being a catholic when he announced candicacy. It’s much to do over nothing. All people are influenced by their faith even if they don’t have any. Because Santorum is so outspoken against the gay community agenda he takes a lot of heat from the biased media with comments taken out of context or the subsequent clarification not included. I’m OK with Mitt, in fact the wife and I was for him instead of McCain. However, this round I believe Santorum the better choice. He is not Reagan, does not claim to be, but he has a lot of Reagan’s traits.
Now, I fully expect our host to remind me of Reagan not measuring up to today’s conservative standards, tax increases, etc. I know all of that. I’m talking deeper, the core of the man.
Newtiepewtie
February 23rd, 2012
9:36 am
Is it the GOP/Grover Norquist strategy to get Uncle Sam into such a deep hole that not even raising taxes will help lower deficits? If so, mission accomplished.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
9:37 am
what qualifies you to speak for or even about conservatives??
Awww, poor Bruno got his widdle feeling hurt. (and, yes, that’s not a typo)
What qualifies you to define who is a conservative or a liberal?
WOODSTOCK MIKE
February 23rd, 2012
9:37 am
We’ve become a nation where nothing is good enough for anyone, everyone’s shortcomings are somebody elses fault, nobody takes any accountability for anything, Democrats and Republicans bicker worse than my children, maybe this country is in trouble. Even Democrats don’t like Obama, when that’s the case you know that no matter who is in office people will just gripe for the sake of griping, I can’t stand whiners. We are becoming a nation of whiners!!
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
9:37 am
There was a study recently that found a fair amount of Republicans in red states were the ones receiving Federal government aid but at the same time they would say that they had never received aid from the Federal government. The percentages of red state Republicans receiving this aid was higher than blue state Democrats.
This surprises anyone outside Rightwingnutistan?
WOODSTOCK MIKE
February 23rd, 2012
9:38 am
What do Democrats have to say about this issue???
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2105131/HALF-Americans-dont-pay-income-tax-despite-crippling-government-debt.html
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
9:38 am
I can’t stand whiners. We are becoming a nation of whiners!!
Quit whining already.
Adam
February 23rd, 2012
9:38 am
I love when Democrats talk about income taxes. Read this article. These 50% that don’t pay a dime….
Anyone wanna bet this is what Boortz and Rush talked about this morning?
Bruno
February 23rd, 2012
9:38 am
The same with conservative pundits. I mean, have you read Ann Coulter on Newt and Rick, etc? And every poll I’ve seen says that a lot of conservatives are very unhappy that these are their choices.
C’mon, Jay, you know that I’m a faithful guy. I get all my Repub-bashing from you and you only.
Seriously, Jay, all of the men on stage last night presented themselves well. I think the near-hysteria coming form the Left is a tad overstated.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
9:39 am
What do Democrats have to say about this issue???
You want to rob poor people to get money? That’s so dumb. You rob rich people to get money, silly. Any good robber knows that.
St Simons - codewords are the new black
February 23rd, 2012
9:39 am
The Republicans have become the Amy Winehouse of ‘merkan politics
without the breathtaking talent, of course
Bruno
February 23rd, 2012
9:40 am
Awww, poor Bruno got his widdle feeling hurt. (and, yes, that’s not a typo)
Apparently you need a little more skill in reconizing sarcasm, ByteMe. I’ll add that to your long list of other personal deficiencies.
WOODSTOCK MIKE
February 23rd, 2012
9:40 am
“There was a study recently that found a fair amount of Republicans in red states were the ones receiving Federal government aid but at the same time they would say that they had never received aid from the Federal government. The percentages of red state Republicans receiving this aid was higher than blue state Democrats.”
Funny, I didn’t think you had to say what political affiliation you were when receiving federal aid? In other words, these comments above are a complete lie. More dumb Democrats.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
9:40 am
I think the near-hysteria coming form the Left is a tad overstated.
That’s laughter, dude. Seriously. We think it’s funny.
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
9:40 am
WOODSTOCK MIKE – ” I can’t stand whiners. We are becoming a nation of whiners!!”
Finally we agree. As I posted downstairs, I don’t want to hear anymore whining about the price of fuel and what Obama is going to do about it. The market is the market, it’s free trade. Keep the government out of it. I’m sure you’ll agree that if you think gas is to expensive, then you need to make better choices in both income and transportation. Thanks MIKE!
Brosephus™ - Browning America Since 1973
February 23rd, 2012
9:41 am
These 50% that don’t pay a dime are the one’s with the loudest voice on who should be taxed.
Are you talking about those with more than $100k of income who’s net tax liability is zeroed out using deductions?
———————-
on topic: Romney doesn’t instill much confidence when he shows that he can easily be swayed by pundit talk. For me, it shows that he doesn’t really believe in what he’s saying and is looking instead to try to say the right things. I want someone who’s gonna take enough time to THINK things through before blurting out crap hoping that it passes muster with inconsequential people who will stand in judgement anyway.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
9:41 am
I’ll add that to your long list of other personal deficiencies.
You’re keeping a list? That’s wellll into anal behavior territory. Something I thought “conservatives” didn’t do unless they were politicians.
bman
February 23rd, 2012
9:41 am
when you folks find a cure for the common cold, let me know. I have the sniffles.. ..
Recon 0311 2533
February 23rd, 2012
9:42 am
Jay’s flip flopping from Santorum back to Romney. He must have felt that Romney performed better than Santorum in last nights debate and might regain the lead. BTW and O.T. 58% believe that Obama is doing a poor job regarding the ever increasing price for gasoline, while 39% think he’s doing a good job.The White House is worried that this will hurt Obama’s re-election chances as well they should. It will be interesting to see how the Obummer attempts to spin this crises in his speech today.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
9:42 am
without the breathtaking talent, of course
Or the tats.
Adam
February 23rd, 2012
9:42 am
Under CRFB’s Realistic Baseline, which also assumes lawmakers extend expiring tax cuts and doc fixes….
Ah, so that’s what they consider realistic.
Not this time, dudes.
Jerome Horwitz
February 23rd, 2012
9:44 am
What never continues to amaze me is how middle class republicans are so worried about protecting the rich. While they continue to flounder. These people probably look at the early 1900’s with nostalgia.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
9:44 am
Jay’s flip flopping from Santorum back to Romney.
The Newt Channel is on permanent test pattern now…. and even the media in Rightwingnutistan thought Paul was someone to ignore.
Adam
February 23rd, 2012
9:44 am
Apparently you need a little more skill in reconizing sarcasm, ByteMe
Retcon gaslighting is awesome, isn’t it?
TaxPayer
February 23rd, 2012
9:44 am
I heard that it was a well knowed fact that only Republican men are qualified to speak for or about women folks.
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
9:45 am
Recon 0311 2533 – “It will be interesting to see how the Obummer attempts to spin this crises”
What crisis? Why should Obama do anything simply because you can’t afford to fill up your tank? If you don’t like the price of gas, don’t buy it. If you think it’s expensive, go buy a cheaper mode of transportation. Stop advocating that the government needs to interfere with the free market, or more importantly in our lives.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
9:45 am
These people probably look at the early 1900’s with nostalgia.
You’re close to hitting the problem on the head. Dogmatic nostalgia for a time that never was is keeping them from advancing as a party.
JohnnyReb
February 23rd, 2012
9:45 am
“when you folks find a cure for the common cold, let me know. I have the sniffles.. ..”
Alcohol
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
9:46 am
Johnny @ 9:45: +1
Paul
February 23rd, 2012
9:48 am
Romney’s words played well to the base. They aren’t much into realistic analysis. And that’s what a candidate needs to win the nomination.
That US Budget Watch link? Just said Newt’s budget would grow debt to 114% of GDP.
Nice fiscal responsibility, conservatives.
Stevie Ray
February 23rd, 2012
9:48 am
JAY,
Maybe we should try something different. Like BO getting a spine and actually doing something in favor of us instead of re-election cash. His strategy with gas is….surprise..DIVERT blame and tell us all that we need to buckle down and accept increase gas prices. Not unlike his predecessor, he has run up quite a deficit in his short time in office. Is he responsible for anything? If GOP takes WH and lays 100% blame on your pal, how are you going to respond?
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
9:48 am
Has anyone else noticed how many people complain about the price of gas, but then go out and buy 60″ flat screen t.v.’s, I-phones, laptops and drive Escalades and Expeditions? These people should have made better choices, instead of relying on the government to save them.
Randalph, the Wraith
February 23rd, 2012
9:48 am
This is funny! BHO at his finest…http://news.yahoo.com/obama-expresses-deep-regret-over-koran-burning-130521907.html
Recon 0311 2533
February 23rd, 2012
9:49 am
Butch, do you think that’s what Obama will say in his public address to the public today about the rising cost of gasoline?
0311/1811
February 23rd, 2012
9:50 am
Recon 0311 2533:
This kind of crap is starting to get a little old !
“President Obama apologized to Afghanistan’s president for the burning of Qurans by NATO troops as the Taliban called on Afghans to kill foreign troops in the country.”
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
9:50 am
This is funny! BHO at his finest
So if our troops went into Israel and intentionally burned a Torah, your thoughts on that?
AmVet - Stop the Phallacy Party.
February 23rd, 2012
9:50 am
Brother B, I find it a total waste of time to watch these parallel interviews mislabeled as debates. They are a total joke foisted on an entertainment addicted audience.
I assure you that if I could be the moderator for even one of them, the American people would get an unmistakable chance to see what ill-informed frauds and evasion professionals they are.
But the complicit corporate media gives every one of them a total pass for not even answering the questions.
I would not. They would be exposed for the cowards, or not, that they are.
And isn’t that the real reason to stage these farces in the first place?
Peadawg
February 23rd, 2012
9:51 am
“I heard that it was a well knowed fact that only Republican men are qualified to speak for or about women folks.”
I heard a well known fact that Democrats are qualified to speak for or about peoples’ health care.
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
9:52 am
Recon 0311 2533 – “Butch, do you think that’s what Obama will say in his public address to the public today about the rising cost of gasoline?”
Obama can say anything he wants. I’ve never based my decisions on the sitting POTUS. Nor, do I hold them responsible for my failings. If your so upset about the cost of fuel, take responsibilty for your own situation and stop relying on the government. I gave you several suggestions earlier. It’s your choice whether or not you want to implement them.
Citizen of the World
February 23rd, 2012
9:52 am
Oh, and don’t forget — in addition to shrinking the debt and cutting taxes, Mitt promises to strengthen our weak and powerless military.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
9:52 am
I heard a well known fact that Democrats are qualified to speak for or about peoples’ health care.
Not “qualified to speak about”, but “interested enough in it to speak about”
Recon 0311 2533
February 23rd, 2012
9:53 am
“Has anyone else noticed how many people complain about the price of gas, but then go out and buy 60″ flat screen t.v.’s, I-phones, laptops and drive Escalades and Expeditions? These people should have made better choices, instead of relying on the government to save them.”
Butch, you should recommend that the Carni man make that statement during the next W.H. press conference.
Thomas
February 23rd, 2012
9:53 am
As I logged in was thinking the 23rd is an odd (versus) even day so it is a Bookman bash Romney day. Love the predictability.
Keep Up--Te gusta losing numb nutz?
February 23rd, 2012
9:53 am
Notice that most of the conned right wingnuts skip over addressing the costs of Mitt’s plan. I guess they realize it looks like its Santorum v Obama and Obama will win. But the whining and the tantrums are bound to continue.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
9:54 am
So if our troops went into Israel and intentionally burned a Torah, your thoughts on that?
No one complaining about BO’s apology wants to take this up?
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
9:55 am
Recon 0311 2533 – “Butch, you should recommend that the Carni man make that statement during the next W.H. press conference.”
Why, gas prices aren’t and won’t affect me. Why are you defending government intervention to make gas cheaper? Why do you think you are entitled to cheap fuel?
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
9:55 am
Why are you defending government intervention to make gas cheaper? Why do you think you are entitled to cheap fuel?
Because he’s a whiny socialist marxist liberal, I tell ya!
Randalph, the Wraith
February 23rd, 2012
9:56 am
anybody but barry!
mm
February 23rd, 2012
9:57 am
“President Obama apologized to Afghanistan’s president for the burning of Qurans by NATO troops as the Taliban called on Afghans to kill foreign troops in the country.”
Hey genius, you do realize we still have troops on the ground there, don’t you? I guess you think Obama should have laughed and said “Bring it on!”
Randalph, the Wraith
February 23rd, 2012
9:57 am
Our troops wouldn’t burn a Torah!
Recon 0311 2533
February 23rd, 2012
9:58 am
“I gave you several suggestions earlier. It’s your choice whether or not you want to implement them.”
Thanks for your suggestion, please do some good for the country and inform the rest of the 58% who’re concerned. Maybe Obama might help by making your suggestions known during his speech today.
JohnnyReb
February 23rd, 2012
9:58 am
I see we are making no head-way on the folks who think the so-called rich don’t pay enough taxes.
Below is a link where when the adjusted gross income is entered, it shows which tax group it falls. Plus there are other selections that show a grid of which group pays how much, etc.
Here’s today’s lesson on Adjusted Gross Income which should help some, I hope, understand why raising tax rates will hurt small business and the economy.
Small business owners where there is a single owner or perhaps man & wife file their federal income taxes as an S-Corporation. Most small businesses are S-Corps. That means all the profit they make shows as adjusted gross income on their personal return and taxes are paid on that amount. If their AGI is over about 350K they fall into the 1% group. However, they can easily use 1/3 or more of that AGI as investment back in the business. Let’s say purchasing more inventory. So, they pay taxes in the 1% group and at the highest rate, but actually have much less disposable income. Raising their tax rates would be very bad. They would have less to invest and grow their business. If they don’t grow, they don’t hire, etc.
This is why we have a spending problem, not a tax rate problem. The Fed government is too big and requires too much tax money to operate. Way past the point of diminishing returns.
http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/income_rank/
0311/1811
February 23rd, 2012
9:58 am
mm:
Enough kowtowing !
Peadawg
February 23rd, 2012
9:58 am
“Not “qualified to speak about”, but “interested enough in it to speak about”
Good grief…that’s how you’re going to spin it? I could say the same thing with regards to Republicans and abortion.
I remember
February 23rd, 2012
9:59 am
Obama in wonderland. Jack taxes and keep the economy growing.
Obama in wonderland. Heath care for all and it the cost will go down.
Obama in wonderland. We don’t need no stinkin Constititution. It means what we say it means.
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
9:59 am
ByteMe – “Because he’s a whiny socialist marxist liberal, I tell ya!”
Apparently so. If I rememebr correctly, the rallying cry over health insurance was “CHOICES”, and keep the government out of our lives. However, when the price of a commodity goes up, we suddenly need the government to step in and save us. Free trade, capitalism, bootstraps, responsibility and better choices are apparently reserved only for the poor and minimum wage earners.
mm
February 23rd, 2012
9:59 am
As for the price of gas, blame the republicans. The Dems tried to pass a law to stop the speculation on oil. It was shot down by the GOP. So wingnuts, stop complaining about the price of oil.
Randalph, the Wraith
February 23rd, 2012
9:59 am
Yes we do have troops there, and thanks to Barry and Joe, the bad guys know that exact date they will leave.
Brosephus™ - Browning America Since 1973
February 23rd, 2012
10:00 am
So if our troops went into Israel and intentionally burned a Torah, your thoughts on that?
No one complaining about BO’s apology wants to take this up?
Dude, you’re going against Marines. Have you not ever heard of diversionary tactics before? Instead of defending Romney, they’re drawing you away from that jackass of a candidate by talking about Obama’s appology.
Mick
February 23rd, 2012
10:01 am
Most small businesses would consider themselves lucky if they were knocking down 125k a year. Nobody is talking about raising taxes on them, I think the buffet rule is fair enough…
TaxPayer
February 23rd, 2012
10:01 am
I suppose Obama could offer to nationalize all of US big oil interests if that’s what it takes to make the Republicans happy.
Randalph, the Wraith
February 23rd, 2012
10:02 am
hehe Brosephus got the jackass right, just pointed it the wrong way. Barry is that, not the bright Republican canidates.
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
10:02 am
Recon 0311 2533 – “please do some good for the country and inform the rest of the 58% who’re concerned”
They’re not my problem, I take respnsibility for my own actions than you very much. That’s the problem with this country, too many people expect everyone else to take care of them.
Mick
February 23rd, 2012
10:02 am
We really should be out of afghanistan, forget the apologies…
0311/1811
February 23rd, 2012
10:02 am
I remember:
Exactly ! Thank you !
Jerome Horwitz
February 23rd, 2012
10:03 am
The President did the right thing in apologizing for the Koran burning. It was inappropriate. While I doubt if the people who’s Koran’s were burned would reciprocate for burning a Christain Bible he did the right thing. For those of you who profess why should we because they wouldn’t – well that brings us down to their level. We’re above that and being the better man is never wrong.
Not a Neal Boortz Redneck
February 23rd, 2012
10:03 am
Bush proved tax cuts don’t pay for themselves.
Of course, Milton Friedman tried to tell the right wing Idiocracy that same thing to no avail.
0311/1811
February 23rd, 2012
10:04 am
Randalph, the Wraith @ 9:59:
Thank you.
If nothing else, this shows why it’s a “relgious war” and we continue to ignore that at our peril.
mm
February 23rd, 2012
10:04 am
I was listening to a radio show this morning. The host had watched a documentary on PBS about Clinton. The host pointed out that the hateful banter between the parties was the same then as now. Newt was right in the middle of it then. The GOP was complaining about the deficit (what a shock). On and on.
Righties, if you don’t change your playbook, you will see 1996 repeated.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
10:04 am
Our troops wouldn’t burn a Torah!
Way to not answer the question. Clearly there are a few who don’t think religious texts are important to the locals.
Randalph, the Wraith
February 23rd, 2012
10:04 am
oil prices are high because:
Barry didn’t want the pipeline
Barry doesn’t want oil drilled on public land
Barry ran off the offshore oil rigs to Brazil and Africa
Barry put too many regulations in place to build a new refinery
0311/1811
February 23rd, 2012
10:04 am
Jerome Horwitz:
………….. and if someone burns a Koran in this country ?
TaxPayer
February 23rd, 2012
10:06 am
JohnnyReb should do commercials for the GOP. Push that meme about the 1% paying too much taxes while the wealthy poor and middle class get a free ride. I’m sure that strategy will take your candidates far. About as far as Hoekstra’s superbowl ad took him. Go for it.
Steve
February 23rd, 2012
10:06 am
Obama is running up the debt as we speak…also apologizing to Karzai after 2 American soldiers are killed by rioters over the burning of the Koran.
I am gonna vote for Mitt Romney…he will figure out a way to clean up our economic mess and stop apologizing to a bunch of animals.
JohnnyReb
February 23rd, 2012
10:06 am
Mick – a man or man & wife who own a small business where their AGI is 125K won’t stay in business long. If the wife, for example, works at a different job instead of the business, her income in the AGI added to the profits of the business.
The Buffett remarks are directed at a totally different kind of income. The point being, lumping all people who have income in the 1% group as needing a tax rate increase is folly.
Mick
February 23rd, 2012
10:07 am
1811
Did you look at that mob? They could have been lifted straight from the 16th century. Burning a book? Doesn’t amount to a hill of beans but to the uneducated, ignorant, it means something. Why in the hell are we still there?
0311/1811
February 23rd, 2012
10:07 am
Jerome Horwitz:
………… and don’t forget the Irania pastor who has just been sentenced to death for converting to Christianity.
Jefferson
February 23rd, 2012
10:07 am
The GOP will never take care of the deficit with their policies, it was their policies in the early 2000’s that worsened the situations. Can’t change history.
jm
February 23rd, 2012
10:08 am
Everyone should get to pay the carried interest 15% rate. No deductions. Cut spending to match revenue. Problem solved.
Randalph, the Wraith
February 23rd, 2012
10:08 am
Byte Me, I did answer the question. The question was nonsensicle.
Paul
February 23rd, 2012
10:08 am
JohnnyReb
Who are the ’so-called’ rich?
As to your example, doesn’t the purchase of inventory get deducted as a business expense on the following year’s computation, so it’s just a rolling amount?
And given S-Corp distributions aren’t generally subject to SS withholding like other self-employed people have to pay, you’re already receiving about a 15% (employer-employee share) dodge in taxes the rest of us pay.
So that’s another tax loophole for the 1% that ought to be closed.
Not a Neal Boortz Redneck
February 23rd, 2012
10:08 am
Randolph, you idiot, the US has more active drilling rigs than the rest of the world COMBINED.
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
10:08 am
Randalph – “oil prices are high because:”
We exist in a global community, and the U.S. is not the only consumer of oil
We don’t own the oil cpmpanies, and believe that the nationalization of the industry would be wrong
Great, another entitlement worm. I suppose you’d just love it if the government came out with an EBT card just for gas. That way you could eat your filet mignon and buy your nikes and flat screens all at the expense of people like me who made the right choices in life. Loser!
Mick
February 23rd, 2012
10:08 am
reb
Sorry, you can count me out as a water carrier for the rich, they can afford to pay more, stop making excuses for them…
RAMZAD
February 23rd, 2012
10:08 am
Have you noticed that Romney can’t even figure out what his gait should be and that what should be his natural bodily animation is something that causes him great confusion- making his whole appearance and demeanor eminently plastic and even silly?
The man is just a fraud, and flip flopping is the least of his problems.
jm
February 23rd, 2012
10:09 am
Didn’t O promise to cut the deficit by 50%. And so far he’s cut it by 5%. O, not credible.
Recon 0311 2533
February 23rd, 2012
10:09 am
“That’s the problem with this country, too many people expect everyone else to take care of them.”
Butch, you’re absolutely correct. Currently that’s about 47% of the population and growing everyday thanks to Obamanomics. The left loves that progression.
0311/1811
February 23rd, 2012
10:09 am
Mick:
We can’t negotiate with these people any more than the Jews could negotiate with the Nazi’s.
I would put it farther back than the 16th century.
Yes ……….. we should be gone but the drones stay overhead !
Randalph, the Wraith
February 23rd, 2012
10:09 am
0311/1811 he’s a christian now, so no one cares. Like the ones dying in Eygpt and the Sudan.
gm
February 23rd, 2012
10:09 am
Recon 0311 2533
Get your facts straight Obama is beating these nut jobs in every poll””
Please rep continue to run on the dome and gloom America, while things are turning around slowly, I have never seen a bunch of idiots that hate America, Mitt the nut instead of thanking God that the auto bail out saved jobs and homes, trash the unions, who had to take pay cuts to keep their jobs.
This type of rhetoric is more of a threat then bin ladin, I guess when you have tanked and trashed and gutted business to make profit and sent our jobs over seas like Mitt you care less about Americans.
Keep Up--Te gusta losing numb nutz?
February 23rd, 2012
10:10 am
Ftroop Islamic barrage has begun….. but remember, whatever the catholics want is okay! Pretzel twisters to the rear!
jm
February 23rd, 2012
10:10 am
Mick, you can go see your messiah in Miami in a couple hours…..
0311/1811
February 23rd, 2012
10:10 am
Got to run for the day ………….. everyone be nice !!
Brosephus™ - Browning America Since 1973
February 23rd, 2012
10:10 am
hehe Brosephus got the jackass right, just pointed it the wrong way. Barry is that, not the bright Republican canidates.
Nope. I got it right. Romney is the perfect candidate for a third, centrist party. He doesn’t believe most of that crap that comes from the far right. You can tell because he sounds so stiff when delivering those talking points. He won’t fit in with the far left either. If Romney were free to follow his beliefs without having to appeal to the far right fringe, he would likely be a damn good candidate. His choice of running in the GOP primary is his biggest fatal flaw thus far, IMHO. That’s where his trail of jackassery began.
jm
February 23rd, 2012
10:10 am
http://blog.heritage.org/2012/02/19/chart-of-the-week-nearly-half-of-all-americans-dont-pay-income-taxes/
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
10:10 am
JohnnyReb – “The Buffett remarks are directed at a totally different kind of income.”
Stop whining and grab your bootstraps. Why should Buffet have to pay higher taxes simply because you weren’t motivated enough to go out and attain his level of wealth? Jeez, another freeloader wanting those who are more successful to carry the load.
Jefferson
February 23rd, 2012
10:10 am
The only reason I figure the GOP middle class suck up to the rich, is they can’t carry their own weight.
Peadawg
February 23rd, 2012
10:10 am
jm,
How is Romney credible after, yet another, flip-flop?
JOE Cool-Republicans Call Him MESSIAH, I Just Call Him Mr. President
February 23rd, 2012
10:11 am
“Yes we do have troops there, and thanks to Barry and Joe, the bad guys know that exact date they will leave.”
SO? Let me guess….they wouldnt notice us just packing up and leaving whenever we decided to? Right? I swear CONs love talking about and engaging in WAR this and WAR that. Tell MITT & Rick to send some of their kids over there.
Talking Head
February 23rd, 2012
10:11 am
All these guys have to do is stay on point. If they repeat the following questions over and over, it will hit home with the voters and they will share their voices in Novemeber.
Is the unemployment number lower today than it was 4 years ago?
Are you being paid more earnings today than you were 4 years ago?
Is your house worth more today than it was 4 years ago?
Are your energy bills lower today than they were 4 years ago?
Are gas prices lower today than they were 4 years ago?
Are your grocery bills lower today than they were 4 years ago?
The sooner these guys prose these questions, the better off they’ll be in November.
Just think of it this way. The other team has pulled their goalie. It’s wide open. All you have to do it tap it in.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
10:12 am
And given S-Corp distributions aren’t generally subject to SS withholding like other self-employed people have to pay, you’re already receiving about a 15% (employer-employee share) dodge in taxes the rest of us pay.
Paul, that’s not quite how it works. What happens is that if you don’t take a salary, it’s ALL considered salary and you pay the payroll taxes on it (including both halves of Social Security and Medicare). So what you do is structure it so that you take part of your income in salaries and the rest as a dividend and the dividend gets to skip payroll taxes while the salary part you pay the taxes.
Randalph, the Wraith
February 23rd, 2012
10:12 am
Not a Neal Boortz Redneck Such personal attacks show your true colors. You are funny!
ken
February 23rd, 2012
10:12 am
How’s the gasoline prices Jay? Does it hurt poor people ? Obama does not care about poor people. Food or gas. And CNN did not mention it last night.. Gota cover his a$$.
jm
February 23rd, 2012
10:12 am
Jay, incorrect english.
“He can shown”
Also of note. Obama keeps cutting many taxes too, so under Obama the deficit would be far worse since Obama won’t cut spending.
(ir)Rational
February 23rd, 2012
10:12 am
Bro – You make a good point, and he is the only candidate running currently that I would feel good about voting for. I’m smart enough to know that I won’t agree with all his positions, but I like him better than anyone else.
Steve
February 23rd, 2012
10:13 am
“”I wish to express my deep regret for the reported incident,” Obama wrote in the letter presented to Karzai by US ambassador Ryan Crocker. “I extend to you and the Afghan people my sincere apologies.”
144 people killed including 2 US Troops…
Brosephus™ - Browning America Since 1973
February 23rd, 2012
10:13 am
Cut spending to match revenue. Problem solved.
Look at how the GOP is whining about defense cuts now. If you cut all welfare out, you would still need to cut deeper to match the revenue you’re talking about. Rush Limbaugh would get elected president before what you’re suggesting would even be attempted. That’s how futile that sounds.
jm
February 23rd, 2012
10:13 am
Peadawg. He didn’t flip flop. Do you normally just accept info Jay spoon feeds you?
ITS ALL BUSHS FAULT
February 23rd, 2012
10:13 am
GOP plan rake in massive profits pay 0 taxes. Real patriots..
JohnnyReb
February 23rd, 2012
10:14 am
Paul – taxes are paid on profit which is sales dollars less the cost of goods sold. Not the cost of inventory. Inventory is an investment on which you also get to pay property taxes. You deduct the cost of an inventory item only when it is sold.
ITS ALL BUSHS FAULT
February 23rd, 2012
10:14 am
If your cons dont want to pay taxes move to another country.
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
10:15 am
ken -”How’s the gasoline prices Jay?”
I can’t speak for Jay, but I have no problem with them. If you don’t like the price of gas, why don’t you go start your own oil company, then you can set the rates that will be more to your liking. Stop waiting for the government to save you, take responsibility for your own life.
jm
February 23rd, 2012
10:15 am
“defense cuts ”
Liberal boogeyman. Defense spending is a drop in the federal budget nowadays.
Paul
February 23rd, 2012
10:15 am
Jay
Looks like the Right falls into a predictable pattern.
You post an article about the candidates or Republican policies, then give an analysis and ask the Right to point out where you’re wrong or justify or clarify the facts.
Yet the Right generally doesn’t address that. They go ‘hmmm…. tilt!!!… Solyndra… gas prices…. socialism……” and veer of into Diversion Land.
Randalph, the Wraith
February 23rd, 2012
10:15 am
Joe, a smart warrior wouldn’t tell his enemy when he’s leaving a position. I of course didn’t make the mistake of considering the current regime as anything remotely intelligent. Maybe you did?
Steve
February 23rd, 2012
10:15 am
Gas prices are skyrocketing…caused by the potential closing of the Straits of Hormuz…caused by ineffective Obama foreign policy.
All Americans are feeling the effects of this…
Peadawg
February 23rd, 2012
10:15 am
“He didn’t flip flop. Do you normally just accept info Jay spoon feeds you?”
You have a link to disprove what Jay said?
Jerome Horwitz
February 23rd, 2012
10:16 am
1811/0311 – None of it is right. All I can do is answer for myself – that’s who I am responsible for.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
10:16 am
Defense spending is a drop in the federal budget nowadays.
Third largest item behind Medicare and Social Security. No wonder you are good with Romney.
TaxPayer
February 23rd, 2012
10:16 am
Half of US large corporations do not pay fed income taxes in any given year.
ty webb
February 23rd, 2012
10:17 am
in this instance, there is no “flip flop” by Romney.
jconservative
February 23rd, 2012
10:17 am
Starting in 1981 the US entered into a formula to cut government revenue and increase government spending. The result was to be lower debt.
Thirty years and a $16 trillion debt later we should realize that this formula does not work.
But we do not.
The obvious way to reverse the trend of higher spending and lower revenue is to reverse the formula.
Reverse the formula by increasing revenue and decreasing spending.
But both parties have settled on formulas that will fail. The Democrats want to just increase revenue and maintain spending. The Republicans want to just decrease spending and further reduce revenue. Neither plan will stop deficit spending and pay off the $16 trillion debt.
jm
February 23rd, 2012
10:17 am
Peadawg. Mitt said cut tax rates for everyone. He didn’t change his position or his plan. Good grief man, use your brain.
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
10:17 am
Steve – “All Americans are feeling the effects of this…”
Speak for yourself. Some of us are doing just fine. As I told ken, if you don’t like the price of gas, go and start your own oil company. That way you can sell the product for whatever price you want. In the meantime, lose the entitlement mentality and quit begging the government to interfere with the free market.
Randalph, the Wraith
February 23rd, 2012
10:17 am
Barry’s Energy Sec stated he thinks we should pay the same for gas as our friends over the pond. What is that now? 9 bucks a gallon? He has done NOTHING to lower gas prices. So another failure of the BO administration…
Paul
February 23rd, 2012
10:18 am
ByteMe
Thanks much for expanding on the particulars.
But the point is, people who set up S-corps (like that idol of the Right, John Edwards did) receive a substantial break on paying the employer-employee share of Social Security tax by manipulating and recategorizing income. That’s the bottom line.
jm
February 23rd, 2012
10:18 am
own it libs
http://blog.heritage.org/2012/02/19/chart-of-the-week-nearly-half-of-all-americans-dont-pay-income-taxes/
Grasshopper
February 23rd, 2012
10:18 am
“The CRFB has also analyzed the impact of the proposed Obama budget. ”
Who cares? Has an Obama budget ever passed?
TaxPayer
February 23rd, 2012
10:18 am
That defense spending is one mighty big drop given that it amounted to 705 billion in 2010 while social security was 707 billion.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
10:18 am
in this instance, there is no “flip flop” by Romney
Yeah, because you have to hold the position long enough for it to be considered a “flip-flip”. :p
Soothsayer
February 23rd, 2012
10:18 am
“I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”
— Richard M. Nixon
Sounds logical to me!
JohnnyReb
February 23rd, 2012
10:18 am
Paul – re, employment taxes. Sole proprioters, and LLC’s must pay self employment taxes which are the equivalent of SS taxes. Owners of S-Corps must pay themselves a salary, draw a paycheck with all the standard deductions just like any employee. The salary amont must be consistent with the total income of the company. Too small a salary versus high profits and the IRS comes knocking. Profits above their salaries are distributions which are not subject to SS.
Jefferson
February 23rd, 2012
10:20 am
Poor envey, jm — its there if you want to be.
ITS ALL BUSHS FAULT
February 23rd, 2012
10:21 am
China is main reason gas prices are. up. You ever heard of supply/ demand…moorons..
Brosephus™ - Browning America Since 1973
February 23rd, 2012
10:21 am
(ir)Rational
The time couldn’t be better for a concerted effort by most moderates to join forces to neuter the extremists who clog this country with bullsh*t and stand in the way of our recovery. There’s been moderates on both sides who have just quit because of the current tone of politics. Romney, in my opinion, could have been a candidate that could get all those disjointed groups together under one umbrella. That opportunity was lost as soon as he veered right to get votes from the right fringe.
(ir)Rational
February 23rd, 2012
10:21 am
jm – To be taken seriously, spending cuts have to be across the board. We can’t pick and choose what we want to cut. If we cut from this program or that program, we would end up with a few pissed off people, and no real change in the big picture. If we cut a little from everyone, we can effect some real change in the way things look for our children and their children. If we could figure out some way to get spending to equal income, or better yet, income to be greater than spending by a combination of spending cuts and restructuring the tax system, then we could end up in pretty good shape. As it is now, I see us heading the way of Greece.
Peadawg
February 23rd, 2012
10:21 am
jm, did you even read the quote from Romney?
““And by the way, I want to make sure that you understand, for middle-income families, the deductibility of home mortgage interest and charitable contributions, those things will continue, but for high income folks, we are going to cut back on that so we make sure the top 1 percent keeps paying, paying the current share they’re paying or more.”
Then later he flip-flopped and say cuts for everyone. Good grief man, use your brain.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
10:21 am
receive a substantial break on paying the employer-employee share of Social Security tax by manipulating and recategorizing income. That’s the bottom line.
Not really. here’s why. let’s say, for example, I make $200K after all the business deductions and take $60K as payroll and $140K as “dividends”. I pay payroll taxes on the $60K and not on the other $140K. So if the entire amount was subject to payroll taxes, how much more would I have to recategorize? Only about $47K, because SS taxes stop at $107K (and medicare taxes — not capped — are tiny in comparison). So the bigger issue is to remove the caps on payroll taxes and then it starts to make more sense to worry about it.
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
10:22 am
Randalph, the Wraith – “So another failure of the BO administration…”
How is it Obamas fault that you can’t pay for gas? Show me where it states in the Bill of Rights or the Constitution that you are entitled to cheap fuel? Stop blaming others for your poor life choices. If you didn’t want to get pinched by market fluctuations, then you should have gotten a better education and a better job that would pay you enough not worry about such things. CHOICES!
Peadawg
February 23rd, 2012
10:23 am
“Yeah, because you have to hold the position long enough for it to be considered a “flip-flip”.” – Oh yeah…good point.
JohnnyReb
February 23rd, 2012
10:23 am
Mick
February 23rd, 2012
10:08 am
reb
Sorry, you can count me out as a water carrier for the rich, they can afford to pay more, stop making excuses for them…
No one is asking you to be water carrier for what you consider rich people. My point is, there is a lot more to it than what you hear Obama and the Occupy crowd put out. It’s no accident the GOP is against raising taxes. It’s more than gaining votes. There is real substance. There are people such as Buffett within the 1% that should pay more. But the broad-brush approach would be devastating to the economy and business owners.
Randalph, the Wraith
February 23rd, 2012
10:23 am
Butch, I can pay for gas. Barry’s the one with the failed administration.
Brosephus™ - Browning America Since 1973
February 23rd, 2012
10:23 am
Liberal boogeyman. Defense spending is a drop in the federal budget nowadays.
You need to tell that to your GOP congressmen who are currently trying to devise a plan to get around that sequester for next year. Hell, they’re even thinking about taxing federal workers again just to keep from cutting defense. It’s a boogeyman alright, but for the Right. They’re scared sh*tless of having to cut defense.
Paul
February 23rd, 2012
10:24 am
JohnnyReb
As you write, eventually those goods do get sold and deducted as an expense. So to give the impression the business owners incur these ongoing expenses to keep the business running and the costs are not deductible is misleading.
BTW, this also illustrates why no one ever answered my question about how, under Cain’s and Gingrich’s and Perry’s super duper tax simplification plans, how would a small business owner calculate taxes owed?
mm
February 23rd, 2012
10:24 am
“oil prices are high because:
Barry didn’t want the pipeline
Barry doesn’t want oil drilled on public land
Barry ran off the offshore oil rigs to Brazil and Africa
Barry put too many regulations in place to build a new refinery”
These lies were thoroughly debunked on this blog just a few days ago. Stats and links and all that. But feel free to make a fool of yourself.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
10:25 am
Barry’s the one with the failed administration.
hehhehehheheheh. Except for Gitmo, he’s gotten pretty much everything he wanted so far. Failed? Only in the mind of those living in Rightwingnutistan.
Randalph, the Wraith
February 23rd, 2012
10:25 am
Butch, do you agree with Barry 0’s Energy SEC? We should pay what the Europeans pay for gas?
(ir)Rational
February 23rd, 2012
10:25 am
Bro – I still think he could have a chance, but only if he destroys the competition on Super Tuesday and is able to start campaigning as himself instead of the person the crazies want him to be. But then again, he will be destroyed if he does that simply because he will be seen as indecisive. I also have to hope that if he were elected, he would govern as himself, and not as the person he is being portrayed at today. But once again, these are all hopes and the thoughts of a person who still wants to believe that things can be better.
JOE Cool-Republicans Call Him MESSIAH, I Just Call Him Mr. President
February 23rd, 2012
10:25 am
“Liberal boogeyman. Defense spending is a drop in the federal budget nowadays.”
Uhhh yeah, drop in the bucket at $663.84 billion for FY2010…………….
Soothsayer
February 23rd, 2012
10:26 am
“Liberal boogeyman. Defense spending is a drop in the federal budget nowadays.”
No matter how many times you post something around here, the Fright-Wing comes back with the same lies over and over again.
Randalph, the Wraith
February 23rd, 2012
10:26 am
Everything Barry has done has been a failure.
JohnnyReb
February 23rd, 2012
10:26 am
Paul – you are correct that inventory investment is eventually written off IF you sell it. If it does not sell you end up not making a penny on it, have paid property taxes on it anytime it was in stock on Jan 1st, and can in the end only write off what it cost. You loose money on it.
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
10:27 am
Randalph, the Wraith – “Butch, I can pay for gas. Barry’s the one with the failed administration.”
Great, then quit whining about fuel prices. Stop wanting the government to interfere in the free market. I personally don’t care who the POTUS is.
Randalph, the Wraith
February 23rd, 2012
10:27 am
mm I am sure you proved it. what did Samuel Clements say? “There are 3 kinds of lies, Lies, damn lies and statistics…..”
Jm
February 23rd, 2012
10:27 am
Irrational 10:21 I agree
While I’m fine cutting defense spending, you can’t balance the budget by cutting defense
Paul
February 23rd, 2012
10:28 am
jm
“Liberal boogeyman. Defense spending is a drop in the federal budget nowadays.”
Nearly $700 billion a year is a drop in the budget for all those programs funded by income and corporate tax revenues?!!?
No wonder conservatives always want more. It’s just a drop -
Randalph, the Wraith
February 23rd, 2012
10:28 am
Butch who’s whining?
Just stating an opinion.
I thinks doing what is right for Americans is what’s best for Americans.
JOE Cool-Republicans Call Him MESSIAH, I Just Call Him Mr. President
February 23rd, 2012
10:29 am
Gotta love the mystery meat……. $5 gas, TELEPROMPTER, 57 STATES………..The sky is falling……
ty webb
February 23rd, 2012
10:29 am
a truther touting “fright wing” lies…that’s rich.
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
10:29 am
Randalph the Wraith – “Butch, do you agree with Barry 0’s Energy SEC? We should pay what the Europeans pay for gas?”
If that’s what the market demands. I don’t understand why you continue to blame Obama for not seizing the oil companies and dictating the price of fuel. Have you always been a socialist, or is this something new for you?
(ir)Rational
February 23rd, 2012
10:30 am
Jm – I haven’t seen anyone advocate just cutting one program. Everyone has their programs they don’t want to see cut, and I think the only way we’ll know if it was done well is if everyone leaves the table pissed. Which is why I also think we have to restructure taxes. But I’m not going to pretend to have the answers for that one.
Normal
February 23rd, 2012
10:30 am
jm,
But you can balance the budget by cutting defense, removing all the oil and ag subsidies, fixing the tax loopholes for business and raising taxes. Problem solved.
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
10:31 am
Randalph the Wraith – “Butch who’s whining?
Just stating an opinion.
I thinks doing what is right for Americans is what’s best for Americans.”
My apologies. I guess you have no problem with free healthcare for everyone then.
Recon 0311 2533
February 23rd, 2012
10:31 am
http://www.gallup.com/poll/152918/Romney-Santorum-Closely-Matched-Against-Obama-Nationally.aspx
For those who think that the leading Republican candidates are getting beat by Obama in the head to head match ups. As I’ve posted before the head to head match up polls won’t mean a lot until a the Republican nominee emerges and this presidential campaign gets into full swing. This does show Obama’s vulnerability and believing that the price of gasoline should not or does not have any effect is foolish.
Paul
February 23rd, 2012
10:33 am
JohnnyReb
Point is, owners of S-corps have mechanisms available to recategorize income and avoid taxes the majority of Americans pay.
So pointing out other things like “but we have to buy inventory out of current income” doesn’t, frankly, win converts to the idea the top 1% are overtaxed.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 23rd, 2012
10:34 am
Well, I can see right now Bookman don’t know nothing about Redneck Economics.
If you cut taxes by 20%, that means guvmint revenues will increase by 20%.
If anybody had the guts to come right out and propose cutting taxes by 100%, the guvmint’s revenue would double and we’d be out of debt and have a surplus. Up at Billy Bob’s we call it the Redneck Convert Curve.
But you can’t tell a Bonehead nothing.
Have a good Thursday everybody.
(ir)Rational
February 23rd, 2012
10:34 am
Butch – is that really what you think is right for Americans? Do you really believe that it is free? Or do you understand that it is going to raise taxes or the debt if we try to “give” everyone “free” healthcare? Also, at risk of sounding cliche and like a parrot for so many people who have said this in the past, if you think its expensive now, wait til its free.
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
10:34 am
Recon 0311 2533 – “This does show Obama’s vulnerability and believing that the price of gasoline should not or does not have any effect is foolish”
Actually, since the price of gasoline cannot be controlled by the POTUS it merely shows that those believe it can are the foolish ones. Then again, no one who votes strictly upon party lines has ever been accused of being smart.
ITS ALL BUSHS FAULT
February 23rd, 2012
10:35 am
You reps are real stoopid , you like public services , military ,police, fire etc. but dont want to pay for any of it with taxes . Meanwhile evading and stealing from your own country. Nice.
Randalph, the Wraith
February 23rd, 2012
10:36 am
Barrycare isn’t free silly Butch. It actually raises the cost of healthcare. No concept of economics.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
10:36 am
Point is, owners of S-corps have mechanisms available to recategorize income and avoid taxes the majority of Americans pay.
Absolutely. You should see how many interesting ways there are to restructure your expenses to get the maximum tax benefit. And none of them rely on having an account in the Cayman’s.
Not a Neal Boortz Redneck
February 23rd, 2012
10:36 am
I encourage everyone to watch Republican Bruce Bartlett’s interview on TDS from last night. Bartlett is alone among the GOP in his truth telling.
CJ
February 23rd, 2012
10:38 am
Over the long term, the hard truth is that to reclaim control of our fiscal future, we will have to raise taxes, not cut taxes, while we also reduce spending.
Great piece Jay.
However, it’s my understanding that we were able to dramatically reduce the deficit as a share of GDP after WWII and balance the budget and return to surpluses in the 90s, not by reducing spending, but by increasing economic growth. Economic growth also increases revenues. If so, then this approach should also be included in the mix when discussing deficits and debt.
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
10:38 am
(ir)Rational – ” is that really what you think is right for Americans?”
I think if everyone had access to free healthcare, it would be great. Unfortunately, it’s just not possible. I was responding to Randalph who said “he thinks doing what is right for Americans is what’s best for Americans.”
gm
February 23rd, 2012
10:38 am
Steve
Lets not have any apologies.” and have more Americans die you people are sick
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
10:40 am
Bartlett is alone among the GOP in his truth telling.
Not true. Check out David Stockman’s truth telling on the anti-tax crusade.
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
10:40 am
Randalph – ” No concept of economics.”
This from the person who believes the POTUS can affect the price of oil and gas in a global market.
sheepdawg
February 23rd, 2012
10:40 am
Bruno- chill out. You will be just fine post Obama in 2017, and I’m sure you’ll grow fond of President Hillary.
Paul
February 23rd, 2012
10:40 am
ByteMe
I see that. And I’ll offer what the average wage earner sees is, regardless of the amount, the top n% gets a break they don’t. Telling them ‘yeah, well, it’s only a little bit in comparison to 250 grand’ isn’t, I think, a good selling point. A good explanation, yes, but not something to be used to win converts.
JohnnyReb
February 23rd, 2012
10:40 am
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
10:36 am
Point is, owners of S-corps have mechanisms available to recategorize income and avoid taxes the majority of Americans pay.
Absolutely. You should see how many interesting ways there are to restructure your expenses to get the maximum tax benefit. And none of them rely on having an account in the Cayman’s
OK, I’m for a flat tax. That would remove all the perceived loop holes and make everything fair.
My guess is you or other opposers to reality are not for a fair tax. And the so-called “fair share” is not really what is meant. “Fair” from the Left means, pay more so I can either pay less or have more.
Paul
February 23rd, 2012
10:41 am
That show on the link to US Budget Watch Jay provided is really interesting.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
10:41 am
However, it’s my understanding that we were able to dramatically reduce the deficit as a share of GDP after WWII and balance the budget
Your understanding is not entirely correct. Into an expanding economy, taxes were raised by Reagan, Bush I, and Clinton. Tax rates after WW2 were 70+% at the top end.
Get Real
February 23rd, 2012
10:42 am
Mitt Romney in Wonderland..
Did Obama have to move over to make room for him?
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
10:43 am
Get Real – “Mitt Romney in Wonderland..
Did Obama have to move over to make room for him?”
Unfortunately there was only enough room for Obama and Bush.
JohnnyReb
February 23rd, 2012
10:44 am
Any statement of tax rates being higher in the past is a canard without also explaining the loop holes that allowd avoiding the subject high rate. The rates may have been higher, but few if any paid at that rate. Today’s rates were reduced as the loop holes were eliminated.
Paul
February 23rd, 2012
10:44 am
Redneck
“Up at Billy Bob’s we call it the Redneck Convert Curve.”
Laffer wrote his idea on a napkin at a restaurant table.
I’m guessing you guys used a different kind of paper in a different stall in the restaurant?
(ir)Rational
February 23rd, 2012
10:45 am
Butch – Realizing that you were just trying to get a response from someone else, I’ll go ahead and do the same to you, just for the fun of it. You say you think everyone should have access to free healthcare. Does that everyone include the top 1%? Or do you think they should have to pay for theirs? They can obviously afford it, and the government is much better at deciding what their money should be spent on than they are, so why not?
Brosephus™ - Browning America Since 1973
February 23rd, 2012
10:45 am
(ir)Rational
I think the centrist ship for Romney has sailed. He would have to walk back on so many things that his photo, and not the shoes, would be sitting beside the word flip flop in Webster’s.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
10:45 am
My guess is you or other opposers to reality are not for a fair tax
I do oppose it, but not for the reason you think. I oppose the current fair tax being proposed because:
1) It would radically restructure our spending patterns over the course of a single day. We’d go from a consumption society to a savings society as the calendar changed over… and that will be strongly detrimental to 70% of the economy (which is what consumer spending amounts to).
2) The percentage the fair-taxers throw out there is way too low to generate the necessary revenue in the face of reduced spending patterns.
3) One of the big promises is that “it’ll get rid of the IRS”, but that’s just fantasy, because someone has to police everyone not paying their share of taxes (and people will find ways not to pay it).
Fix that and then let’s talk about it.
(ir)Rational
February 23rd, 2012
10:47 am
Bro – You’re probably right. Sad as it is.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
10:47 am
Today’s rates were reduced as the loop holes were eliminated.
And then the loopholes were added back in. Few pay the top effective rate today either.
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
10:47 am
(ir)Rational – “Does that everyone include the top 1%?
Everyone includes everyone. Like I said, I think it would be great to have free healthcare for everybody but it’s just not possible. Much like I think it would be great if everyone made a million dollars a year tax free. It’s a nice thought, but hardly doable.
(ir)Rational
February 23rd, 2012
10:48 am
ByteMe – The research I’ve seen on the FairTax has shown that the number should be enough to generate the necessary income. I would love to see some credible research (assuming you have some) that shows otherwise.
Get Real
February 23rd, 2012
10:48 am
Butch….no argument from me…
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
10:49 am
Like I said, I think it would be great to have free healthcare for everybody but it’s just not possible.
I’m a proponent of the Swiss model. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland
(ir)Rational
February 23rd, 2012
10:49 am
Butch – Just trying to see if you meant “everyone” or the liberal definition of everyone that we see here so much.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 23rd, 2012
10:49 am
Laffer wrote his idea on a napkin at a restaurant table.
I’m guessing you guys used a different kind of paper in a different stall in the restaurant?
Well, let’s just say we ain’t much for going into bathroom stalls and tapping the shoe of the guy in the next stall. And Wide Stances ain’t in fashion up there.
Oscar
February 23rd, 2012
10:50 am
Instead of cutting tax rates, we should eliminate all the loopholes and deductions, including phasing out the mortgage tax deduction. All the mortgage tax deduction does is encourage people to build bigger and more expensive homes, with the governement helping them pay the cost.
Corp. tax rates should be reduced, with the loopholes taken out.
Ahem
February 23rd, 2012
10:50 am
“Simple Truths
February 23rd, 2012
9:27 am
As bad as Jay’s blog is, remember, it is much better than Cynthia Tucker’s old blog.”
Indeed.
Talking Head
February 23rd, 2012
10:51 am
Anger over high gas prices will continue to swell, and more and more people will blame the COTUS. His days are numbered.
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
10:52 am
ByteMe – “I’m a proponent of the Swiss model.”
Your point is well taken. I should have said not possible under our form of government. There are many countries that provide free healthcare and education to the population. But we all know what word is used to describe those countries don’t we?
carlosgvv
February 23rd, 2012
10:52 am
“honest debate”
Jay, you and all Democrats know honesty is the last thing you can expect from Romney, Gingrich and Santorum now and in the months to come. They have calculated, correctly, that the majority of Republican voters are credulous beyond belief and will swallow even the most callous and shameless lies without question. It remains to be seen if our country has enough Democrats and independents to keep these liars out of the White House.
Brosephus™ - Browning America Since 1973
February 23rd, 2012
10:53 am
(ir)Rational
I try to remain as truthful as possible with my personal view on things. With Romney, I see the opportunity to neuter the extremes as lost in this election cycle.
(ir)Rational
February 23rd, 2012
10:53 am
ByteMe – The idea is great, but being a healthy 27 year old male, I pay WAY less (by that I mean, something like 1/4) now than what I would pay under their system for the same coverage.
Not a Neal Boortz Redneck
February 23rd, 2012
10:53 am
Bush crude high = $147/bbl
Today’s price = $105/bbl
Its Obama’s fault!
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
10:54 am
The research I’ve seen on the FairTax has shown that the number should be enough to generate the necessary income
They assume that the change in spending patterns caused by the shift in tax application will not happen. But it will. You’ll be tacking a tax on every purchase, instead of just some purchases like we have today. You’ll be eliminating deductions for certain purchases. Any adjustment like that over the course of a single day will severely dislocate the economy and cause spending to fall. Which means revenues won’t match expectations and the rate will have to rise to compensate for it.
And if you bring in the same revenue as today, you have the same deficits as today. So it doesn’t help that.
The biggest problem: by shifting from income taxes to spending taxes, you’re putting all your eggs into a basket that shrinks strongly during recessions (spending on items decreases during recessions even if income and employment doesn’t shrink as much). It’s better to spread the taxes throughout the economy so that you don’t lose the revenue if one source dries up.
(ir)Rational
February 23rd, 2012
10:54 am
Bro – Sad isn’t it? Yeah, I like to remain truthful, but it is sometimes so much fun to just poke at people to see how long it takes them to pop. That could be the kid in me.
Oscar
February 23rd, 2012
10:56 am
His days are numbered.
_________
Numbered is right. By my count, a little short of five years, including the second term.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
10:56 am
The idea is great, but being a healthy 27 year old male, I pay WAY less (by that I mean, something like 1/4) now than what I would pay under their system for the same coverage.
Yes. But health is a fleeting thing. You’re one car wreck — or crazy spouse — away from being a drain on the healthcare system. Trends you think can stretch forever never do.
AmVet
February 23rd, 2012
10:56 am
His days are numbered.
Of course, they are.
To the tune of approximately 1810 days.
And that is simply because of your beloved gang that can’t shoot straight.
If you could find an even halfway decent candidate, he’d lose by a mile…
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 23rd, 2012
10:57 am
Well, I wish these people would quit pushing this idea of a different tax system to take care of our problems. Now you know and I know that the minute a new tax system is signed into law some guy with more money than Midas will be making a humongous campaign contribution to the chair of the House Ways and Means Committee to make some adjustments to the new system. And after a couple years we’ll have nonsense like a Human Depletion Allowance and maybe 300% depreciation and a Capital Formation Incentive. And by the time they’re finished we’ll be right back to where we started before the new system, with the big-money people paying a lower rate than the poor slug that works with his hands. Just give up the idea that a different tax system will take care of things. We’re talking about human pigs, not Angels.
Oscar
February 23rd, 2012
10:57 am
But we all know what word is used to describe those countries don’t we?
_____
Yes, we do. That word is successful.
Not a Neal Boortz Redneck
February 23rd, 2012
10:58 am
The Fair Tax is the biggest sham foisted on ignorant hillbillies I have ever seen. Its real purpose is to kill the estate and capital gains taxes.
Let ONE state pass the amendment and then talk about it.
Just ONE state.
Mighty Righty
February 23rd, 2012
10:59 am
Under Jay’s reasoning a reduction in taxes by Romney or for that matter any Republican does not result in an increases in tax revenue therefore the budget deficit will grow. But, if Obama’s 2% decrease in payroll tax stays in place it will help the economy producing more tax revenue. Also to new Obama tax decrease plan will cause the economy to grow. So, lower taxes by Republicans bad, while lower taxes by Obama good. The left has become so nutty they don’t even know what their own position is. Obamanomics is flip flopanomics. The closer we get to an election the worse Obama and his sycophantic media will get.
Oscar
February 23rd, 2012
11:00 am
The Fair Tax is just a sales tax with a rebate system that will not work. Just a regressive tax plan. Clue is they call it a fair tax, when it’s anything but that.
(ir)Rational
February 23rd, 2012
11:00 am
ByteMe – You were saying eliminating deductions from certain purchases, I’m assuming houses are one of those purchases you’re referring to. Under the FairTax, you’re only taxed on an item the first time it is sold. When you buy a used house or a used car, you wouldn’t pay the extra tax. The research I’ve seen (while obviously biased, what I’ve read had enough economists signing on to it to make me think that it is only slightly exaggerated) suggests that the economy would grow, and spending would increase enough to raise federal revenue over what it is now. For practical models, I look at Florida, Texas, Washington State and Tennessee and see that for the most part, it seems to be working fairly well in those states. Not saying they don’t have deficits, but pretty much everywhere does today.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
11:02 am
But, if Obama’s 2% decrease in payroll tax stays in place it will help the economy producing more tax revenue.
Deductions at the high end do less for the economy than deductions at the low end. If you do the research, you’ll find that the multiplier on unemployment insurance payouts is around 1.6, because they spend every penny they get from it on things that they need and consume. Whereas the multiplier on tax cuts or deductions for the wealthy is around 0.3.
(ir)Rational
February 23rd, 2012
11:04 am
ByteMe – Yeah, that’s why I buy insurance. Not because I need it so much today, but so that if I do need it, I’ll have it. I’ve needed it once since I graduated college, and that was when I was playing with an ax and missed the tree I was aiming at and hit my knee. Other than that, I’ve been pretty good. But, yeah, I am one car accident or crazy person away from needing it, but that’s what the insurance is for. Forcing me to pay 4x more today, just in case I have a problem tomorrow doesn’t make sense to me.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
11:04 am
For practical models, I look at Florida, Texas, Washington State and Tennessee and see that for the most part, it seems to be working fairly well in those states
It works better at the state level where you don’t have to take from one state to subsidize another. Georgia receives $1.11 for every $1.00 in taxes they send to the Feds. New Mexico gets over $2.00 (Indian population is quite poor there). All those states also have more than one tax on things… not just one sales tax, but also taxes on certain other transactions (like hotels, rental cars, etc.).
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
11:06 am
Forcing me to pay 4x more today, just in case I have a problem tomorrow doesn’t make sense to me.
Have you wondered if maybe you’re already paying some of that in other taxes (like Medicare taxes)? Also note that Switzerland is a small VERY expensive country… the pool is smaller to spread the risk.
Mighty Righty
February 23rd, 2012
11:07 am
According to “ByteMe”if everyone was unemployed revenue to the federal government would muliply exponentially. Tere you have it. Lay everyone off and our national debt would quickly disappear. What a concept.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
11:08 am
According to “ByteMe”if everyone was unemployed revenue to the federal government would muliply exponentially.
Once again, a Rightwingnutistan resident shows their lack of reading comprehension.
(ir)Rational
February 23rd, 2012
11:08 am
ByteMe – We’ll never know for sure until we try, but that means we’ll probably never know. That’s just my opinion on it. I haven’t seen anything very credible that made a reasonable argument against it, and until I do, I’ll continue thinking it is a good idea.
Adam
February 23rd, 2012
11:10 am
If you think there’s a war on religion, why don’t you see if someone gets brutally beaten for practicing in public.
Tim Tebow – totally fine
Muslims – not so much
Oscar
February 23rd, 2012
11:10 am
(ir)Rational
Have you looked at how the government run pre-bate is supposed to work. Look at it and tell me it’s a good idea. The same people that think the govt. can’t run anything right think it can run a pre-bate. Amusing.
Adam
February 23rd, 2012
11:10 am
“It appears Barack Obama has failed to keep many of the campaign promises that his opponents made for him. Including the incredibly specific ones” – Jon Stewart
DawgDad
February 23rd, 2012
11:11 am
“It’s been said before, of course, but the problem is the Republican base, who’ve been assured by the Neal Boortz’s of the world that cutting taxes results in increased revenues. And those are the true believers who turn out for Republican primaries.”
I’m assured of that because I’VE WITNESSED IT. Just because you’re a sheep doesn’t mean we are.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
11:11 am
I haven’t seen anything very credible that made a reasonable argument against it, and until I do, I’ll continue thinking it is a good idea.
I always thought the argument over healthcare should be this “no one should ever go bankrupt because they had a health problem.” If you start from there, the options become both more capitalistic and easier to solve with the existing system. Just make Medicare an anti-bankruptcy plan (e.g., $10,000-per-year max outlay) for everyone and then anyone — including employers — can buy supplemental plans on an open market to cover the difference if they want.
(ir)Rational
February 23rd, 2012
11:12 am
ByteMe – Yeah, I realize that those taxes are taken out of my paycheck today, and I have no real problem paying them. But that is still a big difference between having a compulsory insurance plan that I have to purchase, that costs 4x what mine does today. Also, I do realize Switzerland is very small and also very expensive. I went there once, and that once was enough for me.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
11:13 am
I went there once, and that once was enough for me.
It helped to learn that Italian restaurants have the same basic menu as here. Lasagna translates well. After figuring that out, I could find food easier
I spent about 7 weeks there over the course of 3 years, so I had time to figure these things out. Like never expect a real breakfast there.
Thulsa Doom
February 23rd, 2012
11:15 am
“As per whatever specific plans he may be advancing now, I’ll put them in the same circular file I put all politician’s campaign promises. Or do we need to rehash all of the empty promises that Obama made??”
No sir. I am not going to rent a megasize storage building to file away all of Obama’s many broken promises.
(ir)Rational
February 23rd, 2012
11:16 am
Oscar – Have you ever looked at how to blog without being annoying? Wow, I’ve seen double posts, but not quadruple. And yeah, I’ve also seen where companies like Visa were already bidding on the option to take over that system if the FairTax were ever implemented.
ByteMe @ 11:11 – That actually makes a lot of sense. I would be all for that.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
11:16 am
compulsory insurance plan that I have to purchase, that costs 4x what mine does today
My view of it is that the plan would be covered via taxes (like Medicare is today) and it won’t cost 4X if it’s covering 310 million people (13% over 65) instead of only 7 million (17% over 65).
(ir)Rational
February 23rd, 2012
11:18 am
ByteMe – If you want a good breakfast in Europe, go to Germany or Austria. I just can’t think of anything that compares to bratwurst for breakfast.
The thing that got me was a happy meal at McDonald’s cost about $15 when I was there. Luckily, I was just there with friends and didn’t eat there, but the others did and I about fainted when I saw that. I stuck with street vendors and such for my lunch.
(ir)Rational
February 23rd, 2012
11:20 am
ByteMe – If my insurance costs didn’t rise dramatically, I could be convinced. If for no other reason to allow my wife to get good insurance. But then again, I’m relatively poor, and stingy with what money I do have, so that is a big concern for me.
Here we go!
February 23rd, 2012
11:22 am
Randolph – Bush set the timeline to exit Iraq, the Iraqi government would not change that date. All of us knew when the deadline was. How is that different from Obama? Reference to oil, Obama has allowed more oil rigs than the prior admin. Opening Keystone, nobody stated it better than Ted Turner yesterday:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/22/opinion/turner-keystone-pipeline/index.html?iref=allsearch
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
February 23rd, 2012
11:23 am
A road dog’s tax plan would be better, and more coherent, than the Supreme Leader’s tax plan.
Mighty Righty
February 23rd, 2012
11:25 am
I know this is not the conservative view, but anyone who thinks the government will allow a new tax without screwing around with it is out of touch with reality. The so called “fair tax” will not be fair. The government, Republican and Democrat, will increase tax revenue, waste the money the same as they have always done. When it comes to spending and the politicians never ending need for additional revenue, the only difference beween Republicans and Democrats is that the Republican rank and file are more likely to pressure their representative’s to hold down spending while most Democrats want an increase in spending. The difference is the Democrat party had done a better job of attracting the economicly ignorant. The dumber a voter is, the more likely the voter will be unemployed, on welefare, illegal, uninformed and a Democrat.
ByteMe
February 23rd, 2012
11:25 am
The thing that got me was a happy meal at McDonald’s cost about $15 when I was there.
Had a Chinese meal for 2 that cost $125. But Italian and Swiss meals were more in line with what they should cost. I actually didn’t eat at McDonalds. The local grocery store had an awesome salad bar that I ate at for the first 2 weeks while I tried to figure out the “Swiss-German” language.
Butch Cassidy
February 23rd, 2012
11:25 am
SHEETS!
Mighty Righty
February 23rd, 2012
11:28 am
Reference to oil, Obama has allowed more oil rigs than the prior admin. Opening Keystone, nobody stated it better than Ted Turner yesterday:
My understanding is that all new drilling and discovery that has occured under the Obama Administration was approved under the Bush Administration and that there has been no new new drilling under Obama. Anyone?
(ir)Rational
February 23rd, 2012
11:29 am
ByteMe – I would pay that much for Chinese food. Its worth it.
McDonald’s not so much.
Jay
February 23rd, 2012
11:30 am
“But, if Obama’s 2% decrease in payroll tax stays in place it will help the economy producing more tax revenue.
Mighty, please cite where I have argued that the payroll tax cut will produce more revenue. For that matter, please cite where anybody on the left has made such an argument.
You are fabricating things. While I am more than willing to defend what I have written, I will not attempt to defend things that you invent on my behalf.
I do think that short-term tax cuts, particularly on middle-income consumers, will boost the economy through this difficult period. Economists are all but unanimous on that point. But as I noted above, over the long term taxes are going to have to be increased.
They BOTH suck
February 23rd, 2012
11:33 am
Mighty Righty
“the only difference beween Republicans and Democrats is that the Republican rank and file are more likely to pressure their representative’s to hold down spending”
Guess you are not referencing when Reagan had a Repub Senate and Bush 2 had 6 yrs of Repub House and Senate.
Oscar
February 23rd, 2012
11:34 am
Almost everyone who looks at our future budget agrees that taxes will have to be increased. Except for Romney. He seems to be in his own little world. Eliminating deductions and loopholes would be better than increasing the tax rates.
Here we go!
February 23rd, 2012
11:38 am
“According to Andy Radford, senior policy adviser at the American Petroleum Institute, permit approvals have dropped 65 percent, post gulf oil spill. Prior to the gulf disaster, the Obama administration reported approving 217 new well permits (shallow and deepwater).” found in this article:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/mar/29/michele-bachmann/michele-bachmann-claims-there-has-been-just-one-ne/
mm
February 23rd, 2012
11:39 am
“A road dog’s tax plan would be better, and more coherent, than the Supreme Leader’s tax plan.”
I didn’t know North Korea had a tax plan.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 23rd, 2012
11:43 am
Jay, Conservative voters don’t care much for reality. All you have to do to get their votes is to get Fox News to buy your spiel. Bingo – you’re in!
Mitt Romney’s Tax Plan Is a Mathematical Disaster – The Atlantic | financialsurvivalnews.com
February 23rd, 2012
11:55 am
[...] Santorum–Rick …Romney Calls for 20% Cut in Tax Rates Before Arizona DebateBusinessWeekMitt in Wonderland: Shrink the debt AND cut taxes by 20%?Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)FACT CHECK: Errant claims on auto bailout, taxesBoston.comall [...]
Gator Joe
February 23rd, 2012
12:09 pm
Once again for the intellectually challenged Right Wing, “Democrat” is a noun, as in “I’m a Democrat,” not an adjective as you persist in using it, example “the Democrat Party.”
Billybob
February 23rd, 2012
12:19 pm
jay,
projecting again i see………..the morally fraudulent party is the one with the radical leftist morally fraudulent president………..pathetic, but enlightening to see that you are hanging on by a thread lib…..enjoy, oh, and anything on media matters jay?….talk about morally fraudulent……very easy…….
the general election will be all about obama and he’s got nothing to run and win on, so enjoy the bickereing during the republican selection b/c when it’s over……OBAMA IS OVER
Mitt Romney’s Tax Plan Is a Mathematical Disaster – The Atlantic | Feed Squash
February 23rd, 2012
12:36 pm
[...] Santorum — Rick …Romney Calls for 20% Cut in Tax Rates Before Arizona DebateBusinessWeekMitt in Wonderland: Shrink the debt AND cut taxes by 20%?Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)FACT CHECK: Errant claims on auto bailout, [...]
rivercard
February 23rd, 2012
12:52 pm
Gator Joe- Please don’t discourage them from using their use of Democrat at all times. It saves me a lot of time weeding out the disingenuous uninformed lemmings.Plus I get a kick out of how pleased they seem with themselves when they use it.
Don't Judge Obama Against God But Judge Him Against The Alternative
February 23rd, 2012
12:59 pm
The Republicans will waste their time doing something that has already been done by other people, when they could be doing something more worthwhile.
JKL2
February 23rd, 2012
1:02 pm
-current debt trends are unsustainable, and they are
obama and the entire Demwit loving world says, “What?” Deficits don’t matter. Keep them printing presees rolling. We’ll stop illegal immigration by making the dollar worth less than a peso. All the Mexicans will be forced to move back for “the good jobs”.
Of course Americans will not be allowed to follow since Mexico has much more strict immigration policies than we do…
Vote obama: Free money for everyone.
Robert
February 23rd, 2012
1:40 pm
Jay – I agree with most of your posts but I pose the question; should the amount that I pay in Federal taxes per month be more (500 per month more) than I pay for my house? Here are details. Just finished up 2011 taxes and paided 24000 on 125000 of income. Single (divorced actually) and mortgage on house is $1660/month for a $235000 house or at least it was a few years back but that’s a different story. I think $2,000/month is quite enough for the federal governemnt to operate! I also believe in the progressive structure of taxes but man the spending side has to be dramatically reduced!!!
Hmmmmmmmmm
February 23rd, 2012
2:09 pm
It’s really should read, Obama and Mitt in Wonderland…. They are both out of their MINDS!
JB
February 23rd, 2012
2:11 pm
This Jarrett woman who is Obama’s main ” ear full person” said today that unemployment is fueling the economy….You can’t make this stuff up. Unemployment checks are being spent and helping the economy…..You think…..How about a 600,700 or 800 dollar a week job Ms. Jarrett. Think that would help. And would provide revenue for the Feds vs all out go. How stupid do they think we are?
JB
February 23rd, 2012
2:13 pm
Obama wants to outlaw guns because he knows what’s coming when the producers have no more money to take.
Hmmmmmmmmm
February 23rd, 2012
2:14 pm
JB, They think we are VERY stupid….. Considering the voting record for this country, they are right! Kinda Sad!
JB
February 23rd, 2012
2:20 pm
I hate when Social Security is lumped in with entitlement conversation. My butt. Work 40 years at just 30,000 a year and get a return of 5% will give you almost a 725,000 nest egg. Pay that out at just 4% income and it will give you about 29,000 per year. THIS IS NOT an entitlement. It’s your money….And them Dem’s have spent it all by the way. Entitlements is getting other peoples Tax money for doing and giving nothing.
Steve
February 23rd, 2012
2:26 pm
Jay…you better turn up your Republican bashing (not sure if that is actually possible)…
“Mitt Romney leads President Obama by 4 percentage points in Gallup’s latest national head-to-head polling.
If the election were held Thursday, 50 percent said they would support Romney, versus 46 percent who would support Obama, according to Gallup. The president holds the edge on former Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.), 49 percent to 48 percent. “
Hmmmmmmmmm
February 23rd, 2012
2:29 pm
Social Security,
Just another SCAM that your Washington politicians have pulled…. When will you people wake up!
JB
February 23rd, 2012
2:38 pm
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm… you are correct. Where else can you get 200 million people to give you ( and their employers 15% of their earnings for over 35-40 years, grow it to a million dollars and trickle them back about half of it, IF they live 10-15 years………….But, we’re dealing with crooks who will TAKE half of all you’ve made and paid taxes on at your death….as theirs….just for dying. Al Kappone would cut you a better deal.
Rightwing Troll
February 23rd, 2012
2:42 pm
And… (as predicted…) Sister Sarah volunteered she might have to step in if no suitable candidate can be found… Get ready wingnuts, she’s in, just wait.
JB
February 23rd, 2012
2:46 pm
Obama would win by 70% if Sarah got in. She knows it, the GOP knows it, Obama knows it. Not gonna happen. Most America haters are hoping a real strong person doesn’t jump in, because this lame guy is almost beatable with a weak candidate.
Hmmmmmmmmm
February 23rd, 2012
2:46 pm
Exactly JB, but then we have half wits like Bookman who buy in to this madness!
JB
February 23rd, 2012
2:51 pm
Higher taxes
Gay rights
open borders
weak military
Anti religion
abortion on demand
cradle to grave entitlements
Anti oil.
Government is the answer
Why doesn’t Obama campaign on these. They are all in his wheel house.
Proud American
February 23rd, 2012
3:00 pm
Just because as you said it “performed well on a debate” doesn’t qualify them to be a good president. Give me a break. Neither one is worth voting for either. It looks as though the Republican party doesn’t want any of the candidates running. Each month they change in the polls.
JB
February 23rd, 2012
3:01 pm
America with everyone over 55 dead=Greece. Laid back, no work ethic,government owned and supported, worrying about the next tattoo and latte.
JB
February 23rd, 2012
3:03 pm
My big man Christie needs to get on his white horse and ride in and send these guys and Obama packing. We won’t survive 4 more years of no management and someone way over his head.
JB
February 23rd, 2012
3:06 pm
It’s amazing how powerful the 60’s anti America crowd & the Soviet Union professor infiltrated Universities are.
Don't Judge Obama Against God But Judge Him Against The Alternative
February 23rd, 2012
3:43 pm
@JKL2
February 23rd, 2012
1:02 pm
-current debt trends are unsustainable, and they are
obama and the entire Demwit loving world says, “What?” Deficits don’t matter. Keep them printing presees rolling. We’ll stop illegal immigration by making the dollar worth less than a peso. All the Mexicans will be forced to move back for “the good jobs”.
Of course Americans will not be allowed to follow since Mexico has much more strict immigration policies than we do…
Vote obama: Free money for everyone.
*******************************************************************************
“YOU’ people need to stop the HATE on Obama.
You need to hate those stupid idiots Romney, Santorum, Paul and Gingrich.
IS THAT THE BEST YOU HAVE TO OFFER?
Don’t hate the player hate the GAME.
Come back on this blog in November 2012 so I can say I TOLD YOU SO.
Don't Judge Obama Against God But Judge Him Against The Alternative
February 23rd, 2012
4:26 pm
@JB
February 23rd, 2012
3:03 pm
My big man Christie needs to get on his white horse and ride in and send these guys and Obama packing. We won’t survive 4 more years of no management and someone way over his head.
*******************************************************************************
YOUR BIG MAN CHIRSTIE could no get his big behindt on a white horse and ride NO WHERE.
Maybe if he lost 300 pounds he could.
Christe’s weight stands in his way of being president.
The american people would not take a chance on him having a stroke or a heart attack.
SORRY. TRY AGAIN.
Tom Middleton
February 23rd, 2012
4:35 pm
In other words, Jay, it’s not that they drove the car into the ditch during the Bush years that caused all this mess, it’s that they didn’t drive it into the ditch fast enough. God help us, sir, for these people are stark-raving mad!
Romney Tax Cut Plan Relies on Growth Paired with Missing Details – BusinessWeek | financialsurvivalnews.com
February 24th, 2012
2:56 am
[...] a Mathematical DisasterThe AtlanticUK Wealth Tax Brought Less Revenue Than Before Tax HikeAdvisorOneMitt in Wonderland: Shrink the debt AND cut taxes by 20%?Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)CBS News -CNNall 529 news [...]