Top economists overwhelmingly back stimulus

JOE Cool-Republicans Call Him MESSIAH, I Just Call Him Mr. President

February 21st, 2012
10:42 am

Socialist!!

mm

February 21st, 2012
10:42 am

First and foremost.

JOE Cool-Republicans Call Him MESSIAH, I Just Call Him Mr. President

February 21st, 2012
10:43 am

Almost mm…lol

mm

February 21st, 2012
10:43 am

Dreaded second.

JOE Cool-Republicans Call Him MESSIAH, I Just Call Him Mr. President

February 21st, 2012
10:48 am

Honestly, no matter how many economist you put up and all but 1 says it helped the Econ, all the CONs will mimic the same mess that it was failed. Everybody is an armchair economist because they can balance their checkbook..lol

Keep Up--Te gusta losing numb nutz?

February 21st, 2012
10:50 am

But Jay, surely you must know that so many of our expert economic posters have already proven that the stimulus did not work…. now why would you take the word of real experts over say the self-proclaimed expertise without credentials of those who post here. Is it that you are waiting a link to World Net Daily. Look now Pennsylvania is having to deal with a birther complaint like GA and the photo has Obama with FAIL across his head….now why would Obama pose like that. Surely them economists are just as wrong as Georgia on birth certificates.

TBone

February 21st, 2012
10:52 am

Coulda, woulda, shoulda … why do polls drive the news these days? Economics is a faux science, more like a guessing game. Keep propping do your daily due diligence.

Granny Godzilla

February 21st, 2012
10:52 am

Russian Sean has a different opinion?

Vodka for everybody!

Jefferson

February 21st, 2012
10:52 am

Tell it to Faux news, they are the gospel to the couch crowd.

Common Sense

February 21st, 2012
10:54 am

The only evidence you need that the stimulus did not work is that years after you keep searching out evidence that it has.

Remember, if the majority was right, the majority would be rich.

Mr. Snarky

February 21st, 2012
10:54 am

If they surveyed 40 economists, shouldn’t there be at least 80 opinions?
Just a little econ major humor to start your day.

Happy Kine and The Mirth Makers

February 21st, 2012
10:54 am

Well of course the stimuli was a great idea. An idea that saved the world, but wont save Obama.

Too bad…

Jimmy62

February 21st, 2012
10:56 am

These are the people who also advised the Fed to keep rates ridiculously low in the 2000’s, which is possibly the single largest factor in the rise and fall of the sub-prime economy.

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
10:56 am

Well, I’m no trained economist, but I think the stimulus was flawed and would have been much more effective had it been targeted much better in a WPA styled program instead of trying to cut taxes and other stuff. A tax cut is fine and good when the economy has a leg or two. However, if one doesn’t have a job, cutting taxes does not help. I haven’t seen a tax cut yet that creates the demand necessary to cause hiring to increase. I’d wait a while to see the long term effects before I’ll say the stimulus was successful, but that’s just my opinion.

Steve

February 21st, 2012
10:57 am

I’m sure some conservative will proclaim that this “wasn’t Constitutional”!!

Midori

February 21st, 2012
10:58 am

TELEPROMPTER!!!

That goes for you too, mm

mm

February 21st, 2012
10:59 am

So I was eating breakfast at a very small diner last Friday. Evidently everyone there knows each other. The cook/owner asks one of the patrons if he has received 1 million in stimulus funds yet.

These people are ignorant, childish, and bad for our country. But the best part is, they will be silenced in November.

Mr. Snarky

February 21st, 2012
10:59 am

“The only evidence you need that the stimulus did not work is that years after you keep searching out evidence that it has.”

Ah yes. All truths are self evident…sounds like another embracer of “truthiness”.

Aquagirl

February 21st, 2012
10:59 am

Of course, I understand that such things must be weighed against the fact that Rush and Sean have very different opinions.

There’s a general disdain among Republicans for people who have spent years of their lives immersed in a subject. The GOP faithful have their talk-show hosts, google, and ginormous egos, a truly toxic combination.

Cosby

February 21st, 2012
10:59 am

Even Rosevelts Economist admitted years after the great depression all they did was spend a lot of money and only prolonged the depression…years after 2009/2009 Jay you are still trying to justify spending almost a trillion dollars which the taxpayer received nothing…just look at how it was spent – start with the green energy operations that went bankrupt..but wait, the owners / ionvestors presented king Obama with a lot of campaign cash..payback is great…and the real unemployment by the CBO is 16% now!! Great progress!!

Talking Head

February 21st, 2012
11:03 am

1.) Did the 2009 stimulus bill create jobs and lower the unemployment rate?

My Answer: My God I hope it did, we spent nearly $1 trillion on a plethora of subjects.

2.) In the final accounting, will the benefits of the Obama stimulus package end up outweighing its costs and risks?

My Answer: Like some of the economist in the survey said, there has not been enough time to see both the short term and long term impacts. What we do know is that this stimulus package added nearly $1 trillion to the national debt and we have not addressed how to pay for it. Additionally increasing the size of the government will require more revenue to continually fund these endeavors, and currently we are spending around 8% GDP more than we are taking in.

Midori

February 21st, 2012
11:03 am

Cosby,

was Roosevelt’s economist named Morgan Fairchild by any chance?

Billings

February 21st, 2012
11:03 am

Jimmy 62 nailed it @10:56. Fool me once, same on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

BlahBlahBlah

February 21st, 2012
11:04 am

Economists agree that printing money helps the economy. Shocking.

ByteMe

February 21st, 2012
11:04 am

Additionally increasing the size of the government will require more revenue to continually fund these endeavors

Not intended to be a factual statement. Look it up. Government employment continues to shrink.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

February 21st, 2012
11:05 am

Well, what we needed instead of the great waste of the Obama Stimulus was a Republican Stimulus. Now a Republican Stimulus would of give a bunch of money to private businesses, with a sort of hint that maybe they might ought to hire some people. If these businesses never hired anybody then they might put the money in their savings account and call it Capital Accumulation. Either way, we get jobs ~~in a few decades or a century or two~~.

As it was the Obama stimulus sent money to real people that went off and wasted it on stuff like food and clothes and shelter or else it sent money to state guvmints that went and kept people on the job instead of firing them and making us all better off. Or else it sent money for states and towns to repair stuff like bridges that would of fell down anyway if we give them a little more time.

I hope next January the new Republican President will send so much stimulus money to businesses that they’ll be starting up new bulldozer cos. just to give these businesses a way to pile up the money and keep it from spilling over into the pockets of lazy working people that will just go out and blow it on food and clothes and shelter and such.

That’s my opinion and it’s very true. Have a good Fat Tuesday everybody. And just forget that suggestion I made downstairs. Heck, Granny and Paul done drug me through a cow pasture full of doo-doo over that. So keep your shirts on ladies.

ByteMe

February 21st, 2012
11:07 am

The 4% who disagree are the only ones who will show up on FOX News.

mm

February 21st, 2012
11:07 am

“just look at how it was spent – start with the green energy operations that went bankrupt..but wait, the owners / ionvestors presented king Obama with a lot of campaign cash..”

Not meant to be a factual statement.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
11:08 am

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
10:56 am

Well, I’m no trained economist, but I think the stimulus was flawed and would have been much more effective had it been targeted much better in a WPA styled program instead of trying to cut taxes and other stuff. A tax cut is fine and good when the economy has a leg or two. However, if one doesn’t have a job, cutting taxes does not help. I haven’t seen a tax cut yet that creates the demand necessary to cause hiring to increase. I’d wait a while to see the long term effects before I’ll say the stimulus was successful, but that’s just my opinion.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What’choo talking bout Willis? Neal Boortz, Sean Hannidty, Rush Limbaugh, and their hordes of minion s who post here will ALL tell you that if you cut taxes on the “job creators” they will all start crapping jobs.

And look what happened. Taxes were cut and now we have a plethora of jobs. The only people now thta don’t have jobs are teh lazy slugs whom President Obama takes care of………

Stevie Ray

February 21st, 2012
11:08 am

JAY,

Did they ask those same economists if the cost per job at $185K per job is a great value? I’m wondering who paid for all this? Can you help a brother out?

Stevie Ray

February 21st, 2012
11:10 am

MM,

Investigate where $16 billion of the $20 billion of green stimulus cash went…..obama cronies and bundlers of course. Heck, he used the stimulus with Dem congress to pay back IOU’s in record time. Be careful with this hot potato…you will definitely get torched…your pal BO is as corrupt as the rest of them. Your taxpayer dollars at work eh?

Granny Godzilla

February 21st, 2012
11:11 am

Bro @ 10:56

I agree.

That’s why stuff like this made me a wee bit testy….

February 3, 2009
SENATE GOP BLOCKS ADDED INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT…. It got 58 votes, when proponents needed 60.

Senate Republicans on Tuesday blocked Democrats from adding $25 billion for highways, mass transit, and water projects to President Barack Obama’s economic recovery program.

Already unhappy over the size of the measure, Republicans insisted additional infrastructure projects be paid for with cuts elsewhere in the bill. [...]

“We can’t add to the size of this bill,” said Sen. Jim Inhofe, R-Okla. “The amount is just inconceivable to most people.”

Of course, whether the amounts are “conceivable” or not isn’t really the issue, is it? The last federal budget was more than $3 trillion. That amount may be “inconceivable to most people,” but Congress still passed it, and the president still signed it. As standards go, this isn’t especially reliable.

Besides, for a senator like Inhofe, the size isn’t really the issue anyway. It’s not like he’s prepared to support an $885 billion package, but a $925 billion package is just beyond the pale. He and his like-minded colleagues are going to vote against the recovery plan anyway.

As for the vote itself, there were 58 senators in support of the infrastructure expansion, including two Republicans (Specter and Bond). There were 39 votes against, and 38 were Republicans. The exception was Sen. Mary Landrieu (D) of Louisiana, who voted with the GOP and acknowledged afterwards that she’s “a bit in the doghouse right now” with her Democratic colleagues over her opposition to the amendment.

Washington Monthly

godless heathen©

February 21st, 2012
11:11 am

“Question A: Because of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, the U.S. unemployment rate was lower at the end of 2010 than it would have been without the stimulus bill. Agree or disagree?”

If there were 2 more jobs created with the $745 billion, then the economists would have to agree.

Zedd

February 21st, 2012
11:11 am

And just think of how much more effective it could have been if we had not wasted money on things like a $3 million turtle crossing in FL, or the $10 million renovation of a train station that had been abandoned for 3 decades, or 10,000 dead people receiving Social Security stimulus checks, $1 million to build a guardrail around a nonexistent Oklahoma lake, nearly $600,000 for a New York town without a homeless problem to prevent homelessness, $90,000 grant for OU researchers to study how birds parent their offspring and compare that to human behavior, two scientific studies totaling close to $1 million on ants, $823,200 on a study by a UCLA research team to teach uncircumcised African men how to wash their genitals after having sex, and the list just goes on and on. What was the latest figure on how much was spent for each job saved or created again?

Talking Head

February 21st, 2012
11:11 am

“Additionally increasing the size of the government will require more revenue to continually fund these endeavors

Not intended to be a factual statement. Look it up. Government employment continues to shrink.”

I guess your comprehension doesn’t allow you to know that increasing the size of government doesn’t require additional government jobs.

jconservative

February 21st, 2012
11:12 am

Well we have had various stimulus plans since the days of “that man” Roosevelt. Economists have
generally been supportive of all the assorted stimulus plans. That is why we keep doing them.

My favorite was the stimulus of George W when he first took office. You know, the one where he mailed all us taxpayers a check from “The Surplus”.

You do remember “The Surplus”, right?

Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)

February 21st, 2012
11:12 am

You asking conservatives to take the long view?

Mwuahahahahahahaha

Mighty Righty

February 21st, 2012
11:12 am

I took my own survey of leading economists who said the stimulous actually harmed the economy in a way that will take many years to get over. They pointed out that since the stimulous this administration has spent more than three trillion dollars in borrowed money with no improvement in the economy. In fact the economy, by any measurement, is worse today in spite of economic policies that have vertually destroyed our future. They mentioned that next months unemployment numbers will be back to nine percent and that real unemploymnet is more than 18 percent. They also mentioned that with all the spending the country has no way of borrowing our way at of this mess. In addition, they believe that the administration’s lack of energy policy and no plan to improve employment could turn us into another european socialist economic failure. They see no hope unless Obama is replaced, and only then will there be even a slim chance of improvement because of the economic destruction done by the Obama administration to this country.

Keep Up--Te gusta losing numb nutz?

February 21st, 2012
11:12 am

if the cost per job at $185K per job is a great value

Because of course, when you build a bridge, there are no materials, its only labor and accordingly logic dictates that if a bridge costs $5 million and creates 5 jobs, the cost of those jobs is $1 mil each.

ByteMe

February 21st, 2012
11:13 am

if the cost per job at $185K per job is a great value

First you’d have to back up the fake cost number of $185K/job. Let’s see your homework.

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
11:13 am

ARRA cost $787 billion. If the results were not better than without it, Obama would have long been run out of town on a rail. However, “better” means not much better.

The bottom line here is Jay, you have 40 economists where 32 agree in general terms we are better off with it than without it, and less than half agreed its benefits outweigh its cost.

This confirms what most on the Right already know. The stimulus as administered by Obama was a big political payback slush fund that permanently fixed nothing. Shovel ready was a joke – even Barry joked later about it. And too much of the money went to unions who feed it back to the DNC.

Makes me wonder why you posted this one?

Stevie Ray

February 21st, 2012
11:13 am

Let’s say the average salary of jobs saved (can’t be proved with W-2’s of course) and created by stimulus pay $100k each per $185k spent. Let’s calculate the payback in terms of taxes paid. Let’s assume 25% tax bracket so 25K fed tax per job….Payback only 7 years plus…what a deal!!!

Jay, do your numbers include or exclude government union jobs? I’m confused by the data on that point.

ByteMe

February 21st, 2012
11:14 am

I guess your comprehension doesn’t allow you to know that increasing the size of government doesn’t require additional government jobs.

I guess your comprehension of “increasing the size of government” is pure fantasy then.

Bruno

February 21st, 2012
11:14 am

By a 4-1 margin, in a poll conducted by a respected institution with a conservative reputation, a cross section of the nation’s most respected economists believe that the stimulus would prove to be a net positive for the economy

Or, by using the same polling data, one could generate a headline which says “Less than half of economists polled believe that the benefits of the stimulus will end up exceeding its costs.” So which is the “truth”??

Of course, I understand that such things must be weighed against the fact that Rush and Sean have very different opinions.

Jay–If you want to know why less conservatives are participating in your blog, it is because of the childish, gratuitous comments which you feel compelled to add to virtually every column. In case you didn’t know, many respectable people hold opinions which are different from yours. But, rather than reaching out to the Cons so that you might enrich your own point of view, you have nothing but derision. Is your goal to stimulate discussion, or shut it down completely??

Stevie Ray

February 21st, 2012
11:15 am

BYTEME,

Why don’t you prove me wrong?

http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/271107/white-house-nuh-uh-stimulus-jobs-only-cost-185k-each

AmVet - Just say no to the War Pigs.

February 21st, 2012
11:15 am

…a cross section of the nation’s most respected economists believe that the stimulus would prove to be a net positive for the economy…

That does not matter!

What matters is what does the esteemed vulcanologist/climatologist Mr. Limbaugh have to say on the matter?

Billings, did you ever mess that up!

Here’s how it really goes… Courtesy of the (W)orst voters ever!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A

Tommy Maddox

February 21st, 2012
11:16 am

Well, Gallup is reporting today that unemployment is at 9% and underemployment is at 19%.

So, to answer your two questions – No.

ByteMe

February 21st, 2012
11:16 am

The bottom line here is Jay, you have 40 economists where 32 agree in general terms we are better off with it than without it, and less than half agreed its benefits outweigh its cost.

Hmm… 4% of ~40 is 8, Johnny?

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
11:17 am

Thanks goodness for credentials, since there is no intelligent argument in favor of the leftist perspectives here.

Stevie Ray

February 21st, 2012
11:17 am

BYTME,

Why you are at it, can you direct me to a site that contains all the W-2’s that prove any jobs were saved? Stimulus only helped electorate enhance their own wealth and pay back bundles, banks et al for IOU’s…Ridiculus to think otherwise…What if we hadn’t spent this money we didn’t have? Better or worse off??

Mighty Righty

February 21st, 2012
11:18 am

The federal government has increased its’ payroll while the state government’s have reduced their payroll.

Zedd

February 21st, 2012
11:18 am

Testify Bruno!

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
11:19 am

Those economists who bother to develop an argument on those issues overwhelmingly affirm that the “stimulus” was a total waste, and will handcuff the recovery for years. E.g., Robert Barro, Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams. Those economists who adhere to the “overlords know better how to spend money” school think Obamanomics are still working great.

ByteMe

February 21st, 2012
11:20 am

Why don’t you prove me wrong?

http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2011/jul/15/john-boehner/house-speaker-john-boehner-says-obamas-economists-/

kayaker 71

February 21st, 2012
11:21 am

Off topic…..

The SCOTUS has decided to hear that affirmative action case from the white kid in Texas who is suing for discrimination in selection to public universities based on racial preference. Elana Kagen has recused herself from the proceedings. That does not bode too well for minority selection based on race. Finally, a ruling on this antiquated unfair process.

Mighty Righty

February 21st, 2012
11:21 am

Still waiting for someone to point out a time when sanctions worked. Just one. I know you liberals have suggested many times we should impose sanctions so you must have an example of when thery worked.

ByteMe

February 21st, 2012
11:21 am

Those economists who bother to develop an argument on those issues overwhelmingly affirm that the “stimulus” was a total waste

Maybe they’re not considered “real” economists, like the ones who reside in rightwingnutistan.

Jefferson

February 21st, 2012
11:21 am

Anything that make the GOP whine has got to have some value.

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
11:21 am

ByteMe – my statement versus the numbers are correct. Read it and Jay’s post again.

mm

February 21st, 2012
11:22 am

“Investigate where $16 billion of the $20 billion of green stimulus cash went…..obama cronies and bundlers of course. Heck, he used the stimulus with Dem congress to pay back IOU’s in record time. Be careful with this hot potato…you will definitely get torched…your pal BO is as corrupt as the rest of them. Your taxpayer dollars at work eh?”

Wow, the rubepublicans are really out on a limb today with their Fox News and Rushbo myths.

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
11:22 am

It’s a good thing that Obamanomics are so effective. “Gallup Finds Unemployment Climbing to Nine Percent in February.”

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
11:24 am

Dear Byte @ 11:21, can you cite a single argument in favor of the efficacy of Obamanomics? We would agree that Enron’s economist affirms the efficacy, but not with any particular argument.

Tommy Maddox

February 21st, 2012
11:25 am

Was the “number of jobs saved” classification created before or after Obama came to power?

Just wondering…

ByteMe

February 21st, 2012
11:27 am

can you cite a single argument in favor of the efficacy of Obamanomics?

Yawn. You make me sleepy with your “prove a negative” nonsense. Prove that not doing it would have been better!! Oh, right, you can’t do that either, because it’s not possible to prove.

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
11:27 am

Is there any economist out there who will affirm that the ObamaCare fees and fines on employers have not had a dampening effect on employment?

Is there any economist out there who will affirm that the roving “Consumer Protection Agency” – not subject to Congressional budget control – has not had a dampening effect on economic activity?

Is there any economist out there who will affirm that Obamanomics/”Stimulus” led to formation of even a single private market job, save those that were funded by the “stimulus?” Most of those “jobs” were little more than a temporary phenomena, as the “stimulus” was nothing but a money-laundering scheme, transference of taxpayer funds to those entities that supported financially Obama in 2008.

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
11:29 am

Dear Byte @ 11″27, online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704751304575079260144504040.html

Mr. Snarky

February 21st, 2012
11:30 am

Rag…because the austerity pushed the right has worked sooooo well in the UK and Europe.
Talks about evidence? Let’s hear the arguments for that…evidence would be nice too.

Tommy Maddox

February 21st, 2012
11:30 am

I think y’all better stick with the goofy claim of “women being subjugated by the GOP” because heralding claims of the Obama economy makes you look silly.

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
11:30 am

Fred

I forgot about that.

—————————

GG

Until I saw the bridge in California that was constructed in China, I thought that all infrastructure work would generate US jobs. I still think that the spending could be better targeted for infrastructure improvements than anything else. Also, it’s not like we don’t need infrastructure repair anyway.

1.) Did the 2009 stimulus bill create jobs and lower the unemployment rate?

My Answer: My God I hope it did, we spent nearly $1 trillion on a plethora of subjects.

Talking Head

Is that an admission that a tax cut is still spending? The total cost of the stimulus was under $800 Billion with 37% of it ($288 billion) in the form of tax cuts/tax relief. If you’re saying that we spent nearly $1T, then that would also imply that tax cuts are a form of spending themselves. To extrapolate on that idea a bit farther would mean that Bush’s cuts were spending just as Obama’s extensions of those same cuts/spending.

Or did I just misunderstand what you said?

Junior Samples

February 21st, 2012
11:31 am

if you live long enough you will see almost everything….even the absurd. It’s almost like jobs are falling out of the sky like snowflakes….they’re everwhere! Let’s face it folks…it was a huge failure.

Another random thought though…. when bush was in the white house he got blamed for high gas prices. are the high gas prices still bush’s fault or can this one be blamed on obama? Just asking.

Granny Godzilla

February 21st, 2012
11:31 am

DOW BREAKS 13000

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
11:31 am

Dear Snarky @ “because the austerity pushed the right has worked sooooo well in the UK and Europe.” Fair argument, except that austerity has not yet been tried.

ByteMe

February 21st, 2012
11:32 am

ragnar: his assumption is that the money is paid back in 2 years, which is wishful thinking on his part.

ByteMe

February 21st, 2012
11:32 am

ragnar: his assumption is that the money is paid back in 2 years, which is wishful thinking on his part.

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
11:33 am

Dear Snarky @ 11:30, perhaps the absence of slowdown in Hong Kong, where there is also an absence of economic interference by the government, would suffice as evidence for you?

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
11:35 am

Dear Byte @ 11:32, “his assumption is that the money is paid back in 2 years, which is wishful thinking on his part.” Then would you concede that any leftists, such as Obama, who affirmed that the “stimulus” would have an immediate beneficial effect “lied?”

Keep Up--Te gusta losing numb nutz?

February 21st, 2012
11:36 am

Stevie, did you check the math in your citation? Cost of stim/# of jobs = cost per job. How very silly and lame

ByteMe

February 21st, 2012
11:37 am

Ooo… double-post! I win the lottery!!!

I didn’t??

Bruno

February 21st, 2012
11:37 am

In case any of you missed it, yahoo.com had a video which broke down our current economic situation in terms of a household budget. By scaling the numbers down (i.e. dropping several zeros), they showed that Obama’s current budget calls for spending $38,000 on an income of only $29,000. And the “credit card ” balance is $158,000.

These are the only numbers which matter to me.

Talking Head

February 21st, 2012
11:43 am

Brocephus,

Categorizing tax cuts as spending comes from the idea that all money is the goverments money to begin with, and they decide how much to give you, so no I do not think tax cuts are a form of spending.

Also, adding the interest we pay to the stimulus puts the total bill well over $1 trillion. We have yet to address how we were going to pay for this, much like other government projects.

ByteMe,

The governement has continued to grow in size under Obama, yet fewer are employed by the government.

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
11:45 am

Bruno

I missed that comparison on Yahoo, but there’s one small bit of difference between comparing the two. The government can print money to help itself out. Eventually, that may lead to more problems, but when you’re the world reserve currency, there’s a bit of leeway with that which most other countries can nottake advantage of. A household can try to print money to help itself out. That usually ends up with someone in the custody of the state and making license plates for a few years.

AmVet - Just say no to the War Pigs.

February 21st, 2012
11:46 am

Well, what do you know?

71 obsessing about racial issues.

Again…

Under the non-leadership of the previous administration and the corporate owned legislative branch, the corporatists took the American bus called capitalism to the very edge of the cliff. In fact, they we’re so irresponsible, they crashed the bus until it hung perilously over the edge of said cliff, dumping tens of millions of Americans into the abyss of unemployment, bankruptcy and despair.

Under new management, we have been able to slowly back away from the edge of that cliff and get the bus back on the road to recovery.

Even with the Obama-hating Republicans trying to push it right back to the edge again.

All because they hate him more than they love this country…

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
11:48 am

Talking Head

That’s one helluva interest rate then. Spending in the stimulus amounts to a little more than $500 Billion once you subtract out the tax cuts. If interest puts it back over $1T, then we really have some effed up credit.

Mighty Righty

February 21st, 2012
11:48 am

Jay, you are partially correct. The Soweto uprising in ‘76 and the Bush negotiaions in ‘93 with De Klerk had as much to do with end of aparthied as sanctions. Part of that negotiation was South Africa agreeing to destroy its necleur weapons.

ByteMe

February 21st, 2012
11:49 am

Then would you concede that any leftists, such as Obama, who affirmed that the “stimulus” would have an immediate beneficial effect “lied?”

Yawn, name-calling also seems to make me sleepy. Wonder why.

Who said the spending part would have an “immediate” benefit?? The tax cuts happen fast, the spending takes a while to get into the economy. Any leftist knows this, silly.

ByteMe

February 21st, 2012
11:50 am

The governement has continued to grow in size under Obama, yet fewer are employed by the government.

Wow. Gonna go with that nonsense, huh?

ByteMe

February 21st, 2012
11:51 am

the Bush negotiaions in ‘93 with De Klerk

Gotta be a typo. Bush was out of office in early Jan ‘93.

JOE Cool-Republicans Call Him MESSIAH, I Just Call Him Mr. President

February 21st, 2012
11:52 am

“71 obsessing about racial issues.”

Amvet, he’s just gonna love this then….

-Interracial Marriage Hits All-time High-
Interracial marriage in the United States has hit an all-time high, a new study suggests, with a record 1 in 12 marriages taking place between people from different racial backgrounds.

http://shine.yahoo.com/love-sex/interracial-marriage-hits-time-high-215600573.html

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
11:53 am

Urge all to follow the link in Jay’s essay. Example of a supportive (pro-stimulus) view on question B:

“This all depends on how much you value avoiding short-run collapse versus the costs long-term. But it’s not free.”

Midori

February 21st, 2012
11:53 am

Byte –

there’s so much crap being flung that we need to take cover.

want to share my umbrella?

Midori

February 21st, 2012
11:53 am

Enter your comments here

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
11:54 am

JOE Cool

I heard that mentioned on CNN last week. I can attest to a few of those 1’s from my family alone.

Talking Head

February 21st, 2012
11:54 am

“Talking Head

That’s one helluva interest rate then. Spending in the stimulus amounts to a little more than $500 Billion once you subtract out the tax cuts. If interest puts it back over $1T, then we really have some effed up credit.”

Well we payed nearly $500 billion in interest last year.

AmVet - Just say no to the War Pigs.

February 21st, 2012
11:54 am

Jay, it is interesting to note that the dictator-coddling Ronald Reagan vetoed the Comprehensive Anti-Apartheid Act of 1986 but surprisingly and, in testament to the strength of the anti-Apartheid movement, the Republican controlled Senate overrode his veto.

President Reagan appealed to members of the Republican Party for support, but as Senator Lowell P. Weicker, Jr. would state, “For this moment, at least, the President has become an irrelevancy to the ideals, heartfelt and spoken, of America”] This override marked the first time in the twentieth century that a president had a foreign policy veto overridden.

Talking Head

February 21st, 2012
11:57 am

“The governement has continued to grow in size under Obama, yet fewer are employed by the government.

Wow. Gonna go with that nonsense, huh?”

So are you saying that my statement is untrue? That the government hasn’t grown under Obama, and there are fewer employed by the government today than there was before he took office?

Women’s Rights–vs.-Men’s Rights

February 21st, 2012
11:59 am

Sorry… but off-topic…

Almost all of the lawmakers pushing for the abortion restrictions are Republican men, and lesbian Rep. Kelly Cassidy wants to make it clear that she does not stand with her agriculture committee counterparts on these issues. Cassidy reportedly told LGBT journalist Jamie Royce that she plans on introducing a measure that would require people seeking Viagra for erectile dysfunction to watch a video on potential side effects before receiving it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/20/kelly-cassidys-viagra-ame_n_1289025.html

JOE Cool-Republicans Call Him MESSIAH, I Just Call Him Mr. President

February 21st, 2012
11:59 am

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
11:54 am

Love knowth no colour is a beautiful thing.

Midori

February 21st, 2012
11:59 am

Talking Head –

yes, there are fewer employed by the govt. today than there was before Obama took office.

JOE Cool-Republicans Call Him MESSIAH, I Just Call Him Mr. President

February 21st, 2012
12:00 pm

“DOW BREAKS 13000″
Socialism, Marxism, TELEPROMPTER, $6 gas……..

Midori

February 21st, 2012
12:00 pm

Mrs. G — listening to the radio and the news about the DOW is the top story

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

February 21st, 2012
12:01 pm

Shouldn’t the answers in each graph total 100%? Why only 86 and 87?

I must be missing something.

kaycee

February 21st, 2012
12:01 pm

Am I missing something? The sums of the responses for both questions do not add up to 100%.

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
12:02 pm

Well we payed nearly $500 billion in interest last year.

Paying $500 billion in interest on a balance of $15 trillion is one thing. To add that $500 billion to only the cost of the stimulus is factually incorrect and does not represent the true nature of that interest payments origin.

Jefferson

February 21st, 2012
12:04 pm

You don’t run a business like you run a household, it would be wrong to run the gov’t like it was a household, but it makes for talking points.

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

February 21st, 2012
12:05 pm

Kaycee,

Same time, that was weird.

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
12:05 pm

M. Righty — “since the stimulous this administration has spent more than three trillion dollars in borrowed money with no improvement in the economy. In fact the economy, by any measurement, is worse today”

By *any* measurement, you say?

http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/21/10466512-dow-crosses-13000-for-first-time-since-may-2008

USMC

February 21st, 2012
12:06 pm

Breaking News…

The Obama administration is now PIVOTING to “jobs, jobs, jobs”…

Unemployment Climbing to Nine Percent in February
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/gallup-finds-unemployment-climbing-nine-percent-february

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
12:07 pm

M. Righty — “Still waiting for someone to point out a time when sanctions worked. Just one. I know you liberals have suggested many times we should impose sanctions so you must have an example of when thery worked.”

Iraq, 1991 – 2003.

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
12:09 pm

Dear Jay, I have to concede that I think the “stimulus” produced jobs, mostly in government and in those companies that contributed to the Obama 2008 campaign. I do not think the value of the jobs created remotely approaches the costs incurred to produce those jobs. I think Barro’s gound-breaking attempt to prove the Keynesian multiplier is persuasive.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
12:09 pm

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
11:33 am

Dear Snarky @ 11:30, perhaps the absence of slowdown in Hong Kong, where there is also an absence of economic interference by the government, would suffice as evidence for you?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Are you really that stupid? Please tell me you were drunk or something when you posted that. Wow.

Hong Kong, let’s look at the cost saving benefits of Hong Kong that are a direct result of no Government interference:

Slave Labor: Check
Unbreathable air: Check
Poisoned Water: Check
Child Labor: Check
No taxes only bribes: Check
No copy rights to worry about so you can bootleg and pirate anything: Check

Yeah, rags, we REALLY need to revert back to the 1800’s and become Hong Kong……..

Jefferson

February 21st, 2012
12:10 pm

“She’ll tell you ’bout the plane crash with gleem in her eye”…

carlosgvv

February 21st, 2012
12:14 pm

Actually, such things must be weighed against the fact that Romney, Gingrich and Santorum have very different opinions. And, since these men are all excellent Christians and personally talk to God every day, we must bow to their judgements and ignore those Socialist Atheist Business schools who only are plotting to keep that African Socialist Atheist anti-American Obama in power.

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
12:14 pm

Dear Fred @ 12:09, agreed, that probably explains why everyone is leaving Hong Kong for more enlightened countries, such as China.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
12:15 pm

Jefferson

February 21st, 2012
12:10 pm

“She’ll tell you ’bout the plane crash with gleem in her eye”…
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is Atlanta. We don’t get bubble-headed bleach-blondes………… darn it.

AmVet - Just say no to the War Pigs.

February 21st, 2012
12:15 pm

One other note on Reagan’s shameful non-response to the racist government is South Africa.

It was only after years of protests from the United Nations, faith-based institutions, US universities and American states and cities and major interests in the private sector that the Reagan regime even started paying lip service to the brutality in Johannesburg and elsewhere.

The anti-Apartheid movement in the U.S found that Washington was unwilling to get involved in economically isolating South Africa. The movement responded by organized lobbying of individual businesses and institutional investors to end their involvement with or investments in the apartheid state as a matter of corporate social responsibility.

Note those last three words – corporate social responsibility. I worked for a major US corporation that voluntarily disinvested from South Africa in the 1980s.

Does corporate social responsibility even exist anymore?

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
12:17 pm

Dear Rags,

Hong Kong IS China. The British lease on the island expired in 1997. Welcome to the new century…….

And china is SO much better. The slave labor doesn’t have to be shipped across the water…………

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

February 21st, 2012
12:18 pm

Georgia House Democrats have scheduled a 3 p.m. hearing at the state Capitol today, to propose a bill that would ban Georgia males from seeking vasectomies. From the press release:

“Thousands of children are deprived of birth in this state every year because of the lack of state regulation over vasectomies,” said Rep. Yasmin Neal, author of the bill. “It is patently unfair that men can avoid unwanted fatherhood by presuming that their judgment over such matters is more valid than the judgment of the General Assembly, while women’s ability to decide is constantly up for debate throughout the United States.”

House Minority Leader Stacey Abrams added, “The Republican attack on women’s reproductive rights is unconscionable. What is more deplorable is the hypocrisy of HB 954’s author. If we follow his logic, we believe it is the obligation of this General Assembly to assert an equally invasive state interest in the reproductive habits of men and substitute the will of the government over the will of adult men.”

&%*#%#D@ librul Democrats! All we was trying to do was keep women from having abortions. Now they’re trying to take control of us men’s bodies!

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
12:18 pm

Does corporate social responsibility even exist anymore?

A corporation’s sole purpose is to drive profits. Their responsibility is to profit.

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
12:22 pm

Dear Fred @ 12:17, lest you remain deluded, heritage.org/index/ranking

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
12:22 pm

I dedicate this song to those whom is applies, you know who you are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaWt6Vu0evs&list=PL34747F023F11372B&index=19&feature=plpp_video

Ej Moosa

February 21st, 2012
12:23 pm

At some point you will have to repay all the dollars spent on stimulus plus interest.

The cost will far outweigh any perceived benefits in the long run.

But since when did Obama care about the long run?

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
12:24 pm

RC

Seems like the ladies are beginning to fight back.

“Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.”

–Thomas Jefferson

TM

February 21st, 2012
12:25 pm

The first question is a no brainer, you don’t have to be an economist to know that dumping $1 trillon in to the economy would creat jobs. Question 2 require them to predict the future and all one has to do is read their comments to know its too early to tell until we figure out how we are going to pay the debt back and how that is going to affect the economy.

Peadawg

February 21st, 2012
12:25 pm

“Georgia House Democrats have scheduled a 3 p.m. hearing at the state Capitol today, to propose a bill that would ban Georgia males from seeking vasectomies.”

Bitches be crazy y’all!

Midori

February 21st, 2012
12:26 pm

um, Pea – to whom are you referring?

Bosch

February 21st, 2012
12:26 pm

“just look at how it was spent :

Okay, let’s do that. One third was tax cuts, and roughly that went to plug holes in hemorraghing state economies, and a whole other bunch of it (roughly) was spent funding projects many of which had already been proposed to many of the federal funding agencies that were denied in the past —

you can see it all here:

http://www.recovery.org

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
12:28 pm

Rags: I don’t care what your dumbass Right wing Heritage “think tank” says, Hong Kong is CHINA. I know you Republicans hate history and education as a whole, but lying doesn’t change a thing. Refusing to “believe” a fact doesn’t change the fact. Educate youyrself and don’t post BS links that prove that you Republicans are stupid and list as sources sites that haven’t a clue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong

Bruno

February 21st, 2012
12:29 pm

The government can print money to help itself out. Eventually, that may lead to more problems, but when you’re the world reserve currency, there’s a bit of leeway with that which most other countries can nottake advantage of.

Brosephus–Excellent point. From my perspective, the only way we’re going to get this massive debt under control is to undergo massive inflation. How else are you going to pay off a $158,000 credit card with a $29,000 income?? Unfortunately, whenever countries undergo massive inflation, it ruins their economy.

Is anyone beside myself even mildly concerned about all this debt?? For me, it’s the only campaign issue I care about. That and repealing ObamaCare ASAP.

Bosch

February 21st, 2012
12:29 pm

“A corporation’s sole purpose is to drive profits. Their responsibility is to profit”

Which is why I laugh anytime any of the wingnuts here start harping about how “guvmint should be run like a bizness!” Good Lord.

Mr_B

February 21st, 2012
12:30 pm

Head: based on the number of full time federal employees per 1000 Americans, yes it is untrue. In absolute numbers, slightly larger.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2010/09/how_many_federal_workers_are_t.html

CJ

February 21st, 2012
12:31 pm

Of course, I understand that such things must be weighed against the fact that Rush and Sean have very different opinions.

…and Kyle Wingfield.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
12:31 pm

Oh geez, the more I think about that the funnier it gets. The Heritage Foundation has granted Hong Kong Country hood lol? And Republicans BELIEVE that crap?

Just when i think it can’t get dumbed down any more, some Repub shows me they have not yet begun to plumb the depths of utter stupidity.

kaycee

February 21st, 2012
12:31 pm

Steve-USA,

Wow! What are the odds?

kaycee

February 21st, 2012
12:32 pm

Jay,
Are you sure those percentages are right?

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
12:33 pm

Bruno

February 21st, 2012
12:29 pm
Is anyone beside myself even mildly concerned about all this debt?? For me, it’s the only campaign issue I care about. That and repealing ObamaCare ASAP.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I think everyone EXCEPT the Republicans are concerned about the massive debt. The REST of us think we should cut spending and raise taxes, but the republicans refuse to entertain this idea. They think that somehow we can cut enough out of the budget to pay for our former Presidents 2 unfunded wars.

I know, it’s as crazy as thinking Hong Kong isn’t under Chinese rule but there it is………..

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
12:35 pm

From my perspective, the only way we’re going to get this massive debt under control is to undergo massive inflation. How else are you going to pay off a $158,000 credit card with a $29,000 income??

There’s always the option of robbing someone else and using the ill gotten gains. We haven’t done that before to pay down the debt, but there’s always a first time.

Fly-on-the-Wall

February 21st, 2012
12:37 pm

What’s sad in this discussion is that both sides will have their own ‘facts’ to put on display to disprove the other side. What we should be caring about is – Are more Americans going back to work? The answer is yes. Some might say the recovery act did that while others would say it was just a matter of time before companies started to rehire people anyway (i.e. – all those tax cuts finally kicked in). When confronted with this type of argument I’ve usually found that the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

But personally I do believe that it helped and that it should have been bigger. The Righty-Tighties just refuse to do anything to help the economy so Obama cannot take credit. Which means they want Americans to suffer so they can achieve a political end.

Tommy Maddox

February 21st, 2012
12:38 pm

Hey Fred:

How’s about EVERYBODY paying some income taxes? And maybe then those who don’t will get some skin in the game rather than enjoying something for nothing?

Fly-on-the-Wall

February 21st, 2012
12:38 pm

Fred,

I love your 12:33 comment. It hits home on how the Republicans think, or in this case they don’t think.

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

February 21st, 2012
12:40 pm

Kaycee,

Some answered “No Opinion” but some were “Did Not Answer”. The “Did Not Answer” group are not shown. That is why the totals are short..

Granny Godzilla

February 21st, 2012
12:40 pm

“Bitches be crazy y’all!”

Pardon me Peadawg,
but that’s what happens when sons of bitches
try and decide what’s best for women.

Sleep with one eye open son.

Sleep with one eye open.

Bruno

February 21st, 2012
12:41 pm

you have a long history of coming on the blog and waving around your academic credentials to try to intimidate others and impress on everybody just how smart you are compared to the rest of those posting here.

For the record, Jay, while I’m proud of my undergrad college, I’ve never used my attendance there as a substitute for making a valid argument ( = Appeal to Authority). Which is essentially what you are doing today by stating that “in a poll conducted by a respected institution with a conservative reputation, a cross section of the nation’s most respected economists…..blah, blah, blah.” Ditto for all of your columns regarding AGW.

As to your other point, Bruno, please

It’s your column, Jay, so obviously you get to choose what to write. I’m just letting you know that all of the unnecessary insults are diluting the quality of your blog audience. But, have it any way you want……..just please spare us all of the hand-wringing about the political animosity that has developed in our country. You’re no better than the right wing pundits mentioned above.

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
12:41 pm

T. Maddox — “How’s about EVERYBODY paying some income taxes? And maybe then those who don’t will get some skin in the game rather than enjoying something for nothing?”

I presume you’d like to extend this notion to corporations as well? Particularly those who pay little or nothing each year in taxes? After all, without “skin in the game,” they’re just “enjoying something for nothing,” now, aren’t they?

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
12:42 pm

How’s about EVERYBODY paying some income taxes? And maybe then those who don’t will get some skin in the game rather than enjoying something for nothing?

Are you referring to those millionaires who’s net income tax liability is zero because of deductions and credits they can take advantage of? There’s only a few thousand of them, I think. Or are you referring to the conservative’s goto whipping post, the unwed baby momma with 30 kids on welfare driving the cadillac shopping at publix with the EBT card?

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
12:42 pm

Bruno — “all of the unnecessary insults”

Pot, kettle, black.

Tommy Maddox

February 21st, 2012
12:43 pm

Sure Joe.

Tommy Maddox

February 21st, 2012
12:45 pm

Bro – I’m speaking of those who pay nothing at all – not those who pay something i.e. capital gains etc.

You know – the other 50%?

Curious Observer

February 21st, 2012
12:45 pm

Does corporate social responsibility even exist anymore?

At one time, many corporations saw themselves as having an obligation to be good corporate citizens in the communities in which they operate. They donated to deserving social causes and otherwise supported their communities. Then, in the middle of the last century, along came the right-wing economist Milton Friedman and his Chicago School of Economics, declaring that a corporation’s only duty was to create wealth for its owners. Practically overnight, corporations eschewed the concept of social responsibility and became users of society, rather than supporters of it, with a few notable exceptions. You can find many advocates of the Friedman school right here on this blog. Their forerunners were people like Marie Antoinette and her “let them eat cake” philosophy as a response to “the people have no bread.”

godless heathen©

February 21st, 2012
12:46 pm

Fred,

I guess you’ve had your fun with the Hong Cong thing, but the fact is that Hong Kong is economically separate from China and is known for capitalism without government interference, unlike China.

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
12:48 pm

Dear Fred @ 12:29, thanks for your reasoned and thoughtful response, the usual I anticipate from leftists.

Bruno

February 21st, 2012
12:49 pm

I think everyone EXCEPT the Republicans are concerned about the massive debt. The REST of us think we should cut spending and raise taxes, but the republicans refuse to entertain this idea.

Fred–In case you missed it, it is the Dems who keep trying to spend more money. The Republicans are the only ones who think we’ve spent too much already. As for raising taxes, while the Dems have scored plenty of cheap political points with the OWS rhetoric, the fact remains that they extended the Bush tax cuts and have fought to extend the payroll tax reduction. The worst of both worlds: more spending, less taxes. But who cares as long as the polling numbers are good, right??

JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!

February 21st, 2012
12:49 pm

How’s about EVERYBODY paying some income taxes?

No kidding.

And it is always heartwarming to see that you neo-cons are always targeting the most outrageous mooches. Oh wait, that’s right. The following people don’t even exist in the GOP’s parallel reality!

485,000 households in the United States make somewhere between $100,000 and and $500,000 and pay NO federal income tax.

Another 18,000 make more than $1 million and pay ZERO in federal income tax in any given year.

kaycee

February 21st, 2012
12:52 pm

Steve-USA
I’m rather anal about data. Discrepancies like that make me break out in hives. Where did you find this out? Did you go to the actual study?

Tommy Maddox

February 21st, 2012
12:52 pm

Do they PAY cap gains tax?

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
12:53 pm

I’m speaking of those who pay nothing at all – not those who pay something i.e. capital gains etc.

There are millionaires who are in that much maligned group of 47%-50% of people who pay no federal income taxes.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/09/buffett-rule-rorschach-7-000-millionaires-paid-no-income-taxes-in-2011/245469/

To understand why, consider the 76 million people who don’t legally owe individual income taxes in 2011 (please, please note: does not include payroll, excise, state and local taxes). The vast majority of this group was poor. They didn’t owe individual income taxes because they didn’t owe a lot of money to start, and various exemptions, like the earned income tax credit, wiped out the rest.

But among families making more than $100,000, there were also half a million tax units — enough to replace the population of Tucson, Arizona — that also paid no income tax. Even more surprising, 7,000 millionaires also paid no individual income tax.

Based on not paying federal income taxes = not having skin in the game, there are quite a few who make a pretty good living without having any skin in the game. To attempt to shift your original point to include capital gains without giving the same credit to other payroll taxes that are paid on labor wages shows that your intent is to skew the argument to disparage the poor.

Bruno

February 21st, 2012
12:54 pm

485,000 households in the United States make somewhere between $100,000 and and $500,000 and pay NO federal income tax.

Another 18,000 make more than $1 million and pay ZERO in federal income tax in any given year.

Out of curiosity, AmVet, what have the Dems done to fix these obvious inequities in our tax system??

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

February 21st, 2012
12:55 pm

kaycee,

Yes. Jay always links the data he uses. Look for the blue font and click on it to see the detail.

I think I am right about the “Did Not Answer” but I have been wrong many times in the past.

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
12:56 pm

T. Maddox — “Sure Joe.”

Then how about adjusting your language to make that more clear, please? The way you’re saying it, you make it sound like you’re only upset at people, not at people *and* at corporate entities.

Mr_B

February 21st, 2012
12:56 pm

Bruno, in Jay’s defense: “substitute for making a valid argument ( = Appeal to Authority).” There is nothing dishonest or illogical in an appeal to authority, so long as the authority is competent in the subject at hand. Jay seems to have established the credibility of the sources, and that credibility is legitimately subject to question, if you can do so.

As for the “insult” part of the post, I’d sure be isulted if anybody called me “Rush”.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
12:56 pm

Sometimes coming here is all I need for a good laugh, especially when anything good is said about an Obama policy. How many posts have already popped up that said “Oh look he’s bashing Republicans again! Why isn’t he bashing Democrats? (whine)”?

Bruno

February 21st, 2012
12:56 pm

Gotta run, but here’s a little ditty for Mitt’s Kids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86-XrU8sh60

I’ve heard that the Romney Family Crest is a large boot stepping all over the little people.

Catch you guys later……

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
12:57 pm

Tommy Maddox

February 21st, 2012
12:38 pm

Hey Fred:

How’s about EVERYBODY paying some income taxes? And maybe then those who don’t will get some skin in the game rather than enjoying something for nothing?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

hey Tommy give me a NAME of someone who doesn’t pay taxes and I’ll go investigate them, kick their ass if need be.

In the meantime, how about you pop your head out, do some thinking for yourself, and quit spouting talk radio show bumper sticker lies?

Mr. Golf

February 21st, 2012
12:58 pm

Yea, the stimulus was great! I got a free golf cart in 2009 that qualified as a low speed electric vehicle and got a tax credit for the entire amount. Last year I donated it to a charity and writing it off. Yep, that stimulus was very sound policy.

JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!

February 21st, 2012
12:58 pm

Out of curiosity, AmVet, what have the Dems done to fix these obvious inequities in our tax system??

The EXACT same thing as the Republicans.

Nothing.

But at least the rank and file Democrat hasn’t been programmed to believe that this perversion is the natural and proper evolution of American capitalism.

It is not.

We live in a modern day plutocracy and oligarchy.

Where corporations are the new sovereigns and we the people are their slaves.

And cowards who had the chance to protect us sold us out and disregarded the sage advice of brilliant men from Jefferson to Eisenhower.

The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door. That’s the only difference. ~Ralph Nader

Adam

February 21st, 2012
12:59 pm

Even better how about the “Jay, why aren’t you talking about _____?”

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
1:01 pm

godless heathen©

February 21st, 2012
12:46 pm

Fred,

I guess you’ve had your fun with the Hong Cong thing, but the fact is that Hong Kong is economically separate from China and is known for capitalism without government interference, unlike China.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Actually heathen, no it’s not. You should study it closer. Hong Kong gives to mainland china what mainland china tells them too. They have a modicum of autonomy simply because they provide such a large portion of the Chinese income stream.

WaitAMinute

February 21st, 2012
1:01 pm

It’s time the right-wingers took their ball and went home.

kaycee

February 21st, 2012
1:02 pm

Streve-USA,
Thanks. I can breathe again.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
1:02 pm

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
12:48 pm

Dear Fred @ 12:29, thanks for your reasoned and thoughtful response, the usual I anticipate from leftists.
++++++++++++++++++++++++

As I expect a hard core fanatical right winger to call ANYONE (even a fellow republican) who isn’t as nutcase fanatically unthinking a “leftist.”

It’s all you can do holler socialism, leftist and quote talk show propaganda. I would be ashamed if that is the best i could offer in an argument.

Bruno

February 21st, 2012
1:04 pm

There is nothing dishonest or illogical in an appeal to authority, so long as the authority is competent in the subject at hand.

In terms of deductive logic, Mr B, Appeal to Authority most certainly is a logical fallacy. I’m sure Joe Mama can tell you all about it. In the “real” world, i.e. the world if inductive logic, it can provide a convincing argument, but is still a far cry from “proving” something. In other words, does it really matter how many people believe the Earth is flat or round??

Recon 0311 2533

February 21st, 2012
1:06 pm

10% pay 70% of the federal government income tax revenue. Almost 50% pay no income tax and half of those actually get tax dollars back from the government even though they pay no income tax. The real scary statistic is that now 70% of the population receive some form of financial assistance from the government. Pay the fair share? The country is on the right course?

Jefferson

February 21st, 2012
1:06 pm

Talk about poor envey…

godless heathen©

February 21st, 2012
1:13 pm

Fred,

Are you saying that Hong Kong operates under the same economic system as China? If you are, then you are the stupid one.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
1:14 pm

Bruno

February 21st, 2012
12:49 pm

I think everyone EXCEPT the Republicans are concerned about the massive debt. The REST of us think we should cut spending and raise taxes, but the republicans refuse to entertain this idea.

Fred–In case you missed it, it is the Dems who keep trying to spend more money. The Republicans are the only ones who think we’ve spent too much already. As for raising taxes, while the Dems have scored plenty of cheap political points with the OWS rhetoric, the fact remains that they extended the Bush tax cuts and have fought to extend the payroll tax reduction. The worst of both worlds: more spending, less taxes. But who cares as long as the polling numbers are good, right??
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yeah acually I HAVE missed it. I DIDN’T miss that the Republicans rejected a budget bill that called for deeper spending cuts than they called for except it also called for raising taxes.

I saw President Obama extend the Bush tax cuts rather than cut of money to the massive number of unemployeed. i guess if you consider blackmail a victory then you CAN lie and say he “did it.”

But then unlike you who is a hard core right wing fanatic with ulterior motives, I am just an American, just a guy. Unlike you, I don’t want to see the Country go into the toilet rather than “the other guy” get “the credit.” To me, both repubslicans AND democrats are “the other guy.’ i have to team but Team America. I have no agenda but the common good of AMERICA. You on the otherhand are more concerned with tearing down the Democrats than with fixing the Country. You are a divider, I am a uniter. I guess given that basic fact, we will NEVER see eye to eye. I have clarity of thought, mind and purity of purpose. I strive for the good of the Country, for ALL OF US. You and your ilk strive to “best the democrats” no matter the cost to the Country. personally I find you and you ilk, to be traitors. your agenda of tossing out Obama is more important than the Country. I feel the same way about the fanatical left wingers, but we aren’t talking about them right now. THEY aren’t the obstructionists, you are.

Your whole “my dad can beat up your wimpy socialist dad’ third grade rhetoric is old and tired. Grow up. Get your party to grow up. Act like adults and THEN see if the Democrats do the same. If they don’t, you have a leg to stand on. Right now you have nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ&list=PL7B626D544F671E2C&index=12&feature=plpp_video

Scooter

February 21st, 2012
1:14 pm

So are all the participants professors? What percentage of them have worked for government within the last 12 years? And finally, how many jobs have they created? The people want jobs, not some academic economists fiddling with models.

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
1:16 pm

Do you realize how stupid this tripe is? Jay folks have a hellva lot more intelligence than you give them credit for. The internet is a wonderful tool and there’s dozens of articles that say the complete opposite of what you theory is.

Do you remember this Jay? If we pass the stimulus unemployment won’t go above 8% and be down to 6% by 2012. That was the first lie about it.

How about this? We will have shovel ready jobs out the ying yang… Even Obama admitted this didn’t happen.

And this! How about the 2 million Americans that would be lifted from poverty. Over six more million have since fallen into poverty since Obama assumed the Presidency…

You can trot out liberal economist after liberal economist Jay but the simple fact that Obama and the dems wasted 800+ billion dollars in tax money cannot be glossed over as being wildly successful….

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
1:16 pm

Bruno — “I’m sure Joe Mama can tell you all about it.”

I certainly can. However, I take issue with your characterization of inductive logic as being somehow emblematic of or representative of ‘the real world.’

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
1:17 pm

By the way Jay was ordered to write this tripe in response to this…..

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2012/02/17/the-five-biggest-failures-from-president-obamas-stimulus-law

Talking Head

February 21st, 2012
1:17 pm

Obamanomics: If you are successful, then you pay your ‘fair share’ for everyone. Everyone else, live off of the successful.

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
1:17 pm

I see the debate has come around to who pays Federal Income Taxes. This is from Kipplinger for 2009 tax year. AGI means Adjusted Gross Income. If you and the misses bring in $343,927 or more AGI, you are a 1% er.

Income Category 2009AGI % of All Income % Taxes Paid
Top 1% >$343,927 17% 37%
Top 5% >$154,643 32% 59%
Top 10% >$112,124 43% 70%
Top 25% >$66,193 66% 87%
Top 50% >$32,396 87% 98%
Bottom 50% <$32,396 13% 2%

Geo

February 21st, 2012
1:18 pm

Better run Fred – your check’s in the mail.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
1:18 pm

Mr. Golf

February 21st, 2012
12:58 pm

Yea, the stimulus was great! I got a free golf cart in 2009 that qualified as a low speed electric vehicle and got a tax credit for the entire amount. Last year I donated it to a charity and writing it off. Yep, that stimulus was very sound policy.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Looks like it worked. you helped keep some golf cart maker employed as well as the sales staff where you bought it and then when you were finished and decided at 1 year you needed a new one, a charity benefited. Looks like everyone won.

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
1:19 pm

Remember Obama promised there would be 1 million electric cars on the road by 2015??? LOL… I don’t see that happening….

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
1:19 pm

Well, the blog won’t post a graphic and it does not do so well with spaces either. Sorry, but you can figure it out. Even the Left here are “smart.”

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
1:20 pm

“Of course, I understand that such things must be weighed against the fact that Rush and Sean have very different opinions.”

I am afraid the opinions of Rush, Sean or these “top 40 economists” matter little. The FACTS are that 1) the protracted unemployment rate is the longest we have seen since the Great Depression 2) we are some 15 trillion dollars (and rising) in debt and 3) hardly anyone – certainly no one in the Obama camp – is treating this as a national crisis requiring some radical therapy. Save your ditties for Friday, Jay.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
1:22 pm

godless heathen©

February 21st, 2012
1:13 pm

Fred,

Are you saying that Hong Kong operates under the same economic system as China? If you are, then you are the stupid one.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Nope, I’m not saying that at all. Please point out, without rearranging words, what I wrote that says that. I’ll see then what I can do to do a better job of communicating.

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

February 21st, 2012
1:22 pm

Joseph,

That was written by the head of the RNC. That is as worthless as some of the Liberal blog links around here.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
1:23 pm

JohnnyReb: It is perfectly fine to post a LINK to a graphic.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
1:25 pm

So basically the stimulus helped. In other words, it wasn’t a “failure”

Generation$crewed

February 21st, 2012
1:26 pm

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
1:02 pm

“It’s all you can do holler socialism, leftist and quote talk show propaganda. I would be ashamed if that is the best i could offer in an argument.”

Nah you wouldn’t do that you would simply call them baptist, eventhough they are Episcopalian, and have noted nothing of religion but you assummed anyway. You are also good at putting words in their mouth, or simply distorting what was written to conform to your view of that person and what they represent or believe. Not what the person actually represents or believes.

a much classier style of debate you choose to employ.

Maybe just maybe, if you would quit making up your mind about everyone before you have a dialog with them you would not be so tempted to place everyone into groups in your head so you don’t have to think too much.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
1:27 pm

“I think everyone EXCEPT the Republicans are concerned about the massive debt. The REST of us think we should cut spending and raise taxes, but the republicans refuse to entertain this idea.”

The Republicans are adverse to tax increases and the Democrats (if the truth be known) are adverse to spending cuts. The Republicans want to reform the tax code, which apparently the Democrats are loathe to do. Raising the taxes on millionaires only will do next to nothing to solve the debt problem – it would be a drop in the proverbial bucket. Taxes have to be raised on the middle class as well to make some difference. Spending is the bigger cause of our problems by far. Wars and entitlement programs escalating out of control are the biggest culprits.

Corey

February 21st, 2012
1:28 pm

The biggest single slice of the stimulus was tax cuts(25%), followed by medicaid and aid to states. (aid that Republican law makers derided in front of the national press but gladly appeared in front of the local press holding a big check while touting a project in their district) I thought Republicans liked tax cuts? Silly me, tax cuts for “job creators.” Do you Republican voters ever see a glimmer of the sheer hypocrisy emanating form GOP?

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
1:28 pm

Geo

February 21st, 2012
1:18 pm

Better run Fred – your check’s in the mail.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
My check doesn’t come in the mail loser. It get deposited in three checking accounts, a savings accounts and two retirement funds at the 1st of every month. Near as I can figure by Johnny Reb’s numbers up there, I miss being a 1 percenter by just over 100,000 bucks and I think I must be a 2percenter.

Is that all you had? Did you think you were clever? Funny? Did you think you somehow made a point?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5RtlpXsl8k&feature=BFa&list=PL7B626D544F671E2C&lf=plpp_video

Jefferson

February 21st, 2012
1:28 pm

All this talk and the GOP has yet to mount a serious threat to the president’s reelection, I guess they are not as smart as they think they are.

HDB

February 21st, 2012
1:28 pm

Related point…….http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/is-this-the-end-of-market-democracy/?hp

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
1:29 pm

“So basically the stimulus helped. In other words, it wasn’t a “failure”

Even if that were true (which I am not willing to concede), it is like saying we bailed 3 buckets of water from our sinking ship.

Generation$crewed

February 21st, 2012
1:29 pm

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
1:17 pm

Dang if we could just get that top 50% to pay their fair share!!!

Herman's Cane

February 21st, 2012
1:29 pm

Way off topic, but can anyone tell me why Martha Zoller started off her radio show this morning with a nervous call for prayer due to unsourced information based on “chatter” that a war between Israel and Iran is imminent?

Geo

February 21st, 2012
1:30 pm

“Did you think you somehow made a point?”

Nope – you made it for us.

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
1:30 pm

By the way if you do the math each so called job created by the failed stimulus costs tax payers $278,000. Is this success????

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
1:31 pm

Adam – I know how to post a link, but thank you. People often skip the links so I tried to post a grid.

Lost in the translation but shown in the grid, the Top 10% of all wage earners are brining in 43% of all income and paying 70% of all federal income taxes – 70%.

The economy is drug down not by performers but by all those who basically pay no federal income taxes – about 47% of wage earners. A point made many times here that continues to be swept aside in the interest of bleeding hearts.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
1:31 pm

The Republicans are adverse to tax increases and the Democrats (if the truth be known) are adverse to spending cuts.

Please show me any politician or pundit who has said that we ONLY have a revenue problem.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
1:32 pm

“By the way if you do the math each so called job created by the failed stimulus costs tax payers $278,000. Is this success????”

Yes, because normally the massively inefficient government would have spent up to 1 million per each job created.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
1:33 pm

Generation$crewed

February 21st, 2012
1:26 pm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You proved yourself yesterday to be capable of debate. You of course may feel free to address me all you wish, but I feel obliged to tell you that I will never read it. In my opinion you lack the very basic requirements in logic, intellectual integrity, and debating skills to exchange ideas with and I really have grown protective of my time as I get older. I don’t waste it on lost causes.

Have a great day and a beautiful life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFvU3T7eruA

Adam

February 21st, 2012
1:33 pm

The economy is drug down not by performers but by all those who basically pay no federal income taxes – about 47% of wage earners. A point made many times here that continues to be swept aside in the interest of bleeding hearts.

Actually what tends to be ignored is what groups put the most money into the economy that keeps jobs going. Here’s a hint: it’s actually NOT investors. Investors help get businesses going or perpetuate the loans they have. This helps a business RESPOND to a demand, but what happens if no one can buy anything and there is therefore less demand?

Midori

February 21st, 2012
1:34 pm

Joseph is the head of the RNC?

Explains a lot, actually.

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
1:34 pm

Generation$crewed – you got it. But guess what, even if we did, they still would not be happy. The Progressive policies put in place by the federal government has made us a socialist nation. All this talk about Obama being a socialist is true, he is. But socialism was well in place before he started ramping it up.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
1:34 pm

“Please show me any politician or pundit who has said that we ONLY have a revenue problem.”

Please tell all of us what proportion of the debt problem can be attributed to spending and which to lower taxes in percentages.

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
1:35 pm

Steve – USA (I support “None Of The Above”):

Absolutely it was but can you find one lie? Nope… That’s why Media Matters ordered Jay and his ilk to do some damage control before this becomes more and more of an issue… Howling about birth control is about to play out… No one really cares anyway…

Corey

February 21st, 2012
1:36 pm

Dow inches over 13,000 12:16 p.m

Somewhere in a red state a Republican just peed in his pants.

godless heathen©

February 21st, 2012
1:37 pm

Fred,

rags made the point that Hong Kong was less affected by economic downturn because of a lack of government interference, if I understood him correctly. You went all off the hook about how stupid Republicans are for believing that HK is not a part of China. I believe that is called diversion instead of addressing his point.

Recon 0311 2533

February 21st, 2012
1:37 pm

“In other words, it wasn’t a “failure”

Adam, it depends on how you measure failure. If you say that the stimulus was to keep unemployment from rising above 8% and it did in fact rise above 8% therefore failing to meet a forecast you could say it failed. If you say that the stimulus would have unemployment at 6% by this time and it failed to reach 6% you can say it failed. Some make the creditable argument that true unemployment is between 15 and 20 percent. If that’s true and most agree that it’s probably close to those percentages then the stimulus was indeed a failure.

Bill Orvis White

February 21st, 2012
1:38 pm

Obama’s stimulus didn’t work. It’s time to remove this failure, democratically elect a real man who WILL cut taxe$, regulation and overturn ObamaCare.
Amen,
Bill

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
1:38 pm

Generation$crewed – pay little attention to Fred and others who try to take the intellectual high ground. Many are well educated, but when it comes down to it they jump from debating to personal attacks when they run out of legitimate rebuttal. Higher education does not have a monopoly on truth. As Reagan stated, the problem with the Left is they know so much that is not true.

ITS ALL BUSHS FAULT

February 21st, 2012
1:40 pm

Stimulate the economy, Vote Democratic……..2012

Generation$crewed

February 21st, 2012
1:40 pm

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
1:33 pm

In other words I called you upon your lies about me yesterday, and you have no explaination for your reason to lie about me other than you disagreed with me and chose not to debate but instead make up lies.

That was your choice.

As to you not reading my comments I assure you I will be up tonight not sleeping about it.

As to your comment about protecting your time as you get older…..

Really, from your comments I have seen the last two days your time seems to be seriously underprotected.

ITS ALL BUSHS FAULT

February 21st, 2012
1:42 pm

GOP hates america

Adam

February 21st, 2012
1:43 pm

Towncrier: “Please show me any politician or pundit who has said that we ONLY have a revenue problem.”

Please tell all of us what proportion of the debt problem can be attributed to spending and which to lower taxes in percentages.

So you admit we have both a spending AND a revenue problem?

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
1:43 pm

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
1:27 pm

“I think everyone EXCEPT the Republicans are concerned about the massive debt. The REST of us think we should cut spending and raise taxes, but the republicans refuse to entertain this idea.”

The Republicans are adverse to tax increases and the Democrats (if the truth be known) are adverse to spending cuts. The Republicans want to reform the tax code, which apparently the Democrats are loathe to do. Raising the taxes on millionaires only will do next to nothing to solve the debt problem – it would be a drop in the proverbial bucket. Taxes have to be raised on the middle class as well to make some difference. Spending is the bigger cause of our problems by far. Wars and entitlement programs escalating out of control are the biggest culprits.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Exactly. Look at the past. We have tried spending cuts alone: fail. We have tried cutting taxes (because mytholoically it raises more tax revenue); fail. We have tried cutting taxes AND cutting spending: fail.

The last option is why the republicans are with grounds, skeptical. The so called “spending cuts” never happened. That is easy to fix.

For every xbillion dollars ACTUALLY cut from the budget (and not snuck back in elsewhere), then we raise taxes by .x percent.

We cut stuff like oil and farm subsidies. it’s really quite easy except the Republicans refuse to talk, to compromise, to do anything except scream no and throw aberrational temper tantrums. I know the radio show folks aren’t seeing it, but the rest of us are, even those leftists. (But they don’t count anyway, they are going to vote democrat no matter what.)

There are several of us independents on here and we keep telling you far rightists what you are doing wrong and how you can fix it. Do you think about it and tell us thank you? Oh HELL NO. You cuss us and call us socialists, or leftists, or democrats, just because we don’t walk lock step with you. You are doing a GREAT job of convincing us………….

Of convincing us you are asshats we want no part of. I keep saying it, it scares HELL out of me when I look around and the Democratic party has the appearance of being the sane, rational ones………

It should scare you too. Ya’ll Republicans need to take a hard look in the mirror.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
1:44 pm

JohnnyReb: The Progressive policies put in place by the federal government has made us a socialist nation. All this talk about Obama being a socialist is true, he is. But socialism was well in place before he started ramping it up.

And I bet you think theology means environmentalism too….

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
1:45 pm

Corey:

Yes because Repubs are smart enough to invest and actually want to see a profit. Wait a minute. I thought Obama and the dems were gonna punish all those Wall St fat cats and curb and cap their salaries? What happened?

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
1:45 pm

“So you admit we have both a spending AND a revenue problem?”

Sure. Now will you answer the question I put to you?

Adam

February 21st, 2012
1:46 pm

And don’t worry, towncrier, I have an article coming up that will explain everything in vivid detail using actual FACTS and eliminating any reason you might see the problem as one sided (unless facts are ignored)

ITS ALL BUSHS FAULT

February 21st, 2012
1:46 pm

Vote republican = Vote against your own best interests…….Obama……got your Mama……lol

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
1:46 pm

HDB @ 1:28: Good article. Why was I thinking you were a far right winger? Anyway, lets see if this link to the article posts better:

http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/is-this-the-end-of-market-democracy/?hp

Generation$crewed

February 21st, 2012
1:46 pm

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
1:38 pm

Trust me not that highly offended by offensive people.

But I refuse to allow them to lie about me and ignore it, as they will most certainly do the same to others on down the line.

It is not my concern that any of you agree with my ideas or beliefs, they are mine and not those of another. Just don’t appreciate folks flat out lying about me.

Curious Observer

February 21st, 2012
1:47 pm

. . .then when you were finished and decided at 1 year you needed a new one, a charity benefited. Looks like everyone won.

No, it looks as though he filed a fraudulent federal tax return. Since his basis for the golf cart was zero, given that the government paid the entire cost through a tax credit, he was not entitled to take a tax write-off. I hope a good IRS agent is reading his entry.

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

February 21st, 2012
1:47 pm

Corey – “Dow inches over 13,000 12:16 p.m, Somewhere in a red state a Republican just peed in his pants.”

Why? The blue States hate Wall Street remember? If you forgot, read the comments last week in the blog about Romney and Wall Street.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
1:48 pm

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
1:31 pm

Adam – I know how to post a link, but thank you. People often skip the links so I tried to post a grid.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I would venture to guess that mostly the far righties here skip links posted by any but themselves. The rest of us try to read and collect information so we can make an informed decision……..

WOODSTOCK MIKE

February 21st, 2012
1:48 pm

This morning Obama made the comment that he won’t support an economy where only a few do well and the rest struggle to get by. What country is he talking about? I can’t believe Democrats don’t look at this comment and call it a complete and utter lie. In American millions and millions of people are doing incredibly well. I America people live better than any country in the world hands down and it’s not even close! What a pathetic lie and political strategy. I would be embarassed to support anyone that made comments like that.

JOSE

February 21st, 2012
1:49 pm

Jay- What you fail is that the wrong questions were asked.
Was there a better way to structure the ARRA so that money spent was direct into the economy?
Was there a lot of waste in the ARRA?
Did the ARRA benefit more directly to Unions and Government workers than to private sector workers?
Were shovel ready jobs shovel ready?
Did the ARRA only replace money that was to be spent at the state level so therefore was a transfer payment and not a STIMULUS?
Was there a better way to spend 1 trillion dollars that could have been TRANFORMATIVE to the U.S. economy?

Tape your feathers on and ask these questions.

WOODSTOCK MIKE

February 21st, 2012
1:49 pm

Let me ask this to a Democrat. Is someone that lives in a 300K home driving a BMW in the 1% or the 99%?

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
1:50 pm

“And don’t worry, towncrier, I have an article coming up that will explain everything in vivid detail using actual FACTS and eliminating any reason you might see the problem as one sided (unless facts are ignored).”

No need. I don’t see the problem as one sided. But it IS lopsided. A 50-50 solution, therefore, would hardly solve the problem. The government simply cannot (as we cannot personally) keep spending more than it has without going bankrupt.

md

February 21st, 2012
1:50 pm

“Forty-six percent agreed; just 12 percent disagreed. Another 29 percent said they were uncertain or ventured no opinion. ”

For those needing to decipher today’s new math, that would be 56% didn’t “agree” for some reason or another with only 2% having no opinion……

Some interesting comments from some of those economists:

“Stanford economist Kenneth Judd, who declared himself uncertain about the stimulus’ effect on unemployment, appeared less than impressed with the studies cited by his University of Chicago colleague, saying: “There has been no serious study of this. Most analyses that try to analyze 2008-2011 are too simple and/or plagued with mathematical errors.” ”

“His Stanford colleague Caroline Hoxby, who strongly disagreed that the stimulus lowered unemployment, offered that “the depressing effect of future liabilities likely exceeded benefits.””

“On the second question as to whether the stimulus’ benefits exceeded its costs, Goolsbee, who agreed that it did, explained: “This all depends on how much you value avoiding short-run collapse versus the costs long-term.””

“Robert Hall of Stanford, who was uncertain, commented: “I’d agree that the results are likely to be on the positive side, but I can think of future crashes caused by the accumulation of debt.””

“His Stanford colleague, Edward Lazear, who strongly disagreed the stimulus had a positive overall effect, commented: “The cost is the enormous and tough-to-reverse growth of government. This swamps even high estimates of benefits.””

In other words, the jury is still out and will be for quite some time……..this seems like judging the battle vs the war…………..

WOODSTOCK MIKE

February 21st, 2012
1:50 pm

It’s truly unbelievable Obama can make comments like “only a few do well in America and the rest struggle to get by” and Democrats sit there and support it. How pathetic.

WOODSTOCK MIKE

February 21st, 2012
1:51 pm

I guess I must be a genius because I have way more than I could possibly need and so do most people I know. I guess I must be in the 1%.

Jefferson

February 21st, 2012
1:52 pm

Mike you should be embarrased that the GOP is so weak and uncreditable that they do nothing for your support.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
1:52 pm

Towncrier:
Preface: Historical revenue as a percent of GDP hovers between 18.5-20.0%
Historical Spending as a percentage of GDP hovers between 20-22%

Historically, we have had mostly a spending problem.

Revenue in percent of GDP in 2009: 14.9%
Spending in Percent of GDP in 2009: 25.0%

Revenue in percent of GDP in 2010: 14.9%
Spending in Percent of GDP in 2010: 23.8%

So to answer your question directly, our problem is that we are spending about 6-7% more in percent of GDP than we should, and taking in about 3-5% less in revenue than we should be.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
1:52 pm

godless heathen©

February 21st, 2012
1:37 pm

Fred,

rags made the point that Hong Kong was less affected by economic downturn because of a lack of government interference, if I understood him correctly. You went all off the hook about how stupid Republicans are for believing that HK is not a part of China. I believe that is called diversion instead of addressing his point.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I went a LITTLE further than that Godless: I showed 5 things that “lack of government interference” meant as well as noting that Hong Kong was NOT a Country. He then posted a link from the Heritage Foundation to “prove me wrong” because the dummies at the heriutage foundation listed Hong Kong as a Country. Sorry, the Heritage Foundation does not have the authority to grant sovereignty to CHinese Islands and Provinces.

Any thing else?

Recon 0311 2533

February 21st, 2012
1:53 pm

Jose, You’re kind of over Jay’s head and he’ll need to search around for another cut and paste chart to reply, so don’t hold your breath waiting for an answer.

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
1:53 pm

The entire cost of the Iraq War was less than Barack Obama’s failed stimulus bill.

md

February 21st, 2012
1:53 pm

And for those needing to decipher my math, that would be 54%…………

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
1:53 pm

Bill Orvis White

February 21st, 2012
1:38 pm

Obama’s stimulus didn’t work. It’s time to remove this failure, democratically elect a real man who WILL cut taxe$, regulation and overturn ObamaCare.
Amen,
Bill
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bill, I must have missed your answer. Are you on your way to snake out my pipes?

Granny Godzilla

February 21st, 2012
1:54 pm

BIG LETTER MIKE

Not nearly as pathetic as those who don’t recognize the truth of it.

Can you get your big old camel butt through the eye of that there needle?

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
1:55 pm

“This morning Obama made the comment that he won’t support an economy where only a few do well and the rest struggle to get by.”

I guess he therefore wouldn’t support the historical economy of this nation for most of the time it has existed. Rhetoric (at which he is adept) matters little. We have a VERY serious problem that needs to get solved. He simply fails in that regard.

Poor Boy from Alabama

February 21st, 2012
1:56 pm

JB,

A couple of quick points:

1. The majority of the economists polled came from a handful of schools on the east and west coasts – MIT, Harvard, Yale, UC-Berkeley, Stanford, and Princeton. Paul Krugman has called folks from these schools “salt water economists” for obvious reasons. Almost all the folks at these schools are disciples of Keynes. It would go against all their training to knock one of the biggest Keynesian experiments of all times.

Of the six University of Chicago economists polled, only Austan Goolsbee and one other agreed that the benefits of the stimulus would end up exceeding its costs. The other Chicago economist who agreed, Richard Thaler, is hardly a free market guy. Half of the Chicago economists polled said they were “uncertain” as to whether the benefits of the stimulus outweighed its costs. One had “no opinion”.

2. Austan Goolsbee was an adviser to the Obama campaign back in 2008 and headed the President’s Council of Economic Advisers before he returned to the University of Chicago. Other Chicago folks have ties to the Obama administration as well. Maybe Booth isn’t quite as free market as you would suggest. Equally important, Goolsbee admits he doesn’t understand why the recession continues to linger:

http://www.chicagobooth.edu/bfeo/2012/news/bfeo-2012-01-13.aspx

Commenting on the state of the US economy, Austan Goolsbee, Robert P. Gwinn Professor of Economics, admitted that reasons for “the slow recovery from the deepest recession in our lifetimes remains a bit of a puzzle.

“In the past, big recessions tend to be followed by big recoveries, and this one was not,” he said. Although Goolsbee thought that the next 12 to 18 months were likely to remain erratic, he identified sources for optimism, such as the moderate growth pace of the US economy prior to the shocks of the Arab Spring and Japanese tsunami mentioned by Kroszner.

“If the output growth rate well exceeds productivity, you will see significant improvements in the job market—and we did see that,” Goolsbee noted. “But, in 2011, we slowed down, and as long as we are growing 2 percent or less, the job market will never improve. Our ultimate challenge is getting the growth rate up. It’s by far the most important thing we have to do.”

Goolsbee noted that he believed it was taking longer to recover from the current recession because it was not possible to revert to an economy whose expansion was heavily weighted in residential construction and consumer spending growth.

So a couple of years after spending $800 billion Goolsbee essentially admits he doesn’t know why the economy is still weak.

3. It’s impossible to spend $800 billion without boosting the economy at least a tad. That works out to about $7,500 per household. It would have been interesting to ask these distinguished academicians what would have happened if Uncle Sam had sent every household a check for $7,500. Would that have been better than the stimulus? Things that make you go “Hmmm?”

Granny Godzilla

February 21st, 2012
1:56 pm

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
1:53 pm
The entire cost of the Iraq War was less than Barack Obama’s failed stimulus bill.

***Not intended to be a factual statment*****

JOSE

February 21st, 2012
1:58 pm

RECON, that is my point. Liberals cannot process or analyze facts or statistics. They only process emotion. A percentage of the $1 trillion dollars spent to convert the commercial vehicle fleets in this country to CNG and biodiesel all of which are produced here and spent here is a stimulus. Giving money to New York to fix a bridge that they have ignored for years and where going to fix anyway is not STIMULUS, its a transfer of payments. Taxpayers of the well managed states subsidized the incompetency of the mismanaged states. THATS NOT FAIR.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
1:58 pm

“In other words, the jury is still out and will be for quite some time……..this seems like judging the battle vs the war…………..”

Good post, md. It seems that Jay is more interested in propaganda at times than truth (though that can be said of all of us).

Adam

February 21st, 2012
1:59 pm

JOSE: Liberals cannot process or analyze facts or statistics. They only process emotion.

You’ve got that backwards, dude. But I appreciate the sort-of attempt to be self-aware

Adam

February 21st, 2012
2:00 pm

JOSE: Taxpayers of the well managed states subsidized the incompetency of the mismanaged states. THATS NOT FAIR.

Shall we take a look at which states get the most federal money and which ones PAY the most federal money?

Keep Up--Te gusta losing numb nutz?

February 21st, 2012
2:01 pm

The entire cost of the Iraq War was less than Barack Obama’s failed stimulus bill.

Really, seems we have years of taking care of vets with injuries. The cost is expect to exceetd $4 trillion. So unless you have some new math $4 trillion > $789 billion.

So much for your “facts”….. but they are facty like. Seems to be a common problem.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
2:02 pm

I was awakened last night at 2:38AM by the sound of 8 quickly fired rounds of what sounded to me like a high caliber hand gun. I have been searching media all days and can’t find anything about it……….

Mr. Golf

February 21st, 2012
2:02 pm

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
1:18 pm

Looks like it worked. you helped keep some golf cart maker employed as well as the sales staff where you bought it and then when you were finished and decided at 1 year you needed a new one, a charity benefited. Looks like everyone won.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Fred, I agree the answer to solve our economic issues and reign is massive government spending is to over free golf carts to everyone.

BTW I already had two golf carts before I got the free one. One at my primary residence and the other at one of my vacation homes. I appreciate the President subsidizing my 1% lifestyle. I just purchased a Chevy Volt for my son who is attending very expensive private college and hoping to get the increased $10000 tax credit from $7500 the President Obama is offering in his new budget.

JOSE

February 21st, 2012
2:02 pm

Adam
Your response only confirms my statement. Your response is an emotional response. Liberals talk about FAIRNESS yet when asked to DEFINE and OUTLINE fairness they cannot give me a quantitative response.

Granny Godzilla

February 21st, 2012
2:03 pm

“Factiness” is the step cousin once removed from “Truthiness”

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
2:03 pm

“So to answer your question directly, our problem is that we are spending about 6-7% more in percent of GDP than we should, and taking in about 3-5% less in revenue than we should be.”

I’ll take a 3:1 spending reductions: tax increases solution. But real and not phantom spending reductions (like the winding down of the wars).

JOSE

February 21st, 2012
2:04 pm

Adam
It is not the responsibility of the federal government nor other states to correct the problems in mismanaged states. Your attempt to be logical only proves my point.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
2:05 pm

“Shall we take a look at which states get the most federal money and which ones PAY the most federal money?”

Let’s start with California, shall we?

Keep Up--Te gusta losing numb nutz?

February 21st, 2012
2:05 pm

Well sure Granny…. all “factiness” has “truthiness” but not all “truthiness” is “factiness” Your mileage may vary.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
2:08 pm

“Liberals talk about FAIRNESS yet when asked to DEFINE and OUTLINE fairness they cannot give me a quantitative response.”

Exactly. It remains a nebulous concept until it is specifically defined. It is but one of many political terms used to emotionally rouse people in order to gain their votes. Almost all politicians are guilty of using such terms in this manner.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
2:09 pm

Mr. Golf

February 21st, 2012
2:02 pm

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
1:18 pm

Looks like it worked. you helped keep some golf cart maker employed as well as the sales staff where you bought it and then when you were finished and decided at 1 year you needed a new one, a charity benefited. Looks like everyone won.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Fred, I agree the answer to solve our economic issues and reign is massive government spending is to over free golf carts to everyone.

BTW I already had two golf carts before I got the free one. One at my primary residence and the other at one of my vacation homes. I appreciate the President subsidizing my 1% lifestyle. I just purchased a Chevy Volt for my son who is attending very expensive private college and hoping to get the increased $10000 tax credit from $7500 the President Obama is offering in his new budget.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sweet. Looks like life is grand for you and by spending your money as you are, you are also ensuring that the economy moves along and people here are kept employed. I applaud you.

I hope the “expensive private college” is Emory so that the money is kept local, but that is merely for selfish reasons as I derive a direct financial gain from the well being of Emory

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
2:10 pm

Towncrier: I responded to your comment towards me. No rebuttal or affirmation?

JOSE

February 21st, 2012
2:15 pm

Towncrier
The DEMOCRAPS are the FAIRNESS nazis. It is they who push this agenda. I want to know exactly what DEMOCRAPS DEFINE and QUANTIFY as a FAIR TAX CODE. Whenever they are asked they hem and haw. Raising taxes on the rich is not an answer. I want to know what is a FAIR TAX CODE. Give me the rates for each income level and type. DEMOCRAPS won’t do it. On the flip side REPUGNANTS want to cut taxes. They dont care about FAIRNESS, yet the will not give a specifc to CUT TAXES TO WHAT RATES ON WHAT INCOME AT WHAT LEVELS.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
2:17 pm

JOSE: Your response only confirms my statement.

Your response to an emotional statement only confirms that you have it backwards.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
2:19 pm

“Towncrier: I responded to your comment towards me. No rebuttal or affirmation?

Sorry…I missed that. Had to go back a page or two. I am very conservative, but I do identify myself as a Republican per se. That party is usually for me the lesser of two evils. I do not think the Republicans are always right and the Democrats are always wrong. There are solutions to our problems and a true leader gets people of opposing viewpoints to come together to find them. The give-me-no new taxes-or give me death stance of the ultra conservative Republicans is not realistic or practical. But they are right, I think, to emphasize real spending cuts over tax increases.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
2:20 pm

JOSE: The DEMOCRAPS are the FAIRNESS nazis

Three emotional buzz words. See? You DO have it backwards.

Now, if you want to talk about fairness, that is an argument that is not based in fact. But to be fair, that is a messaging thing, which IS based in fact – the fact that a lot of people in independent and conservative circles respond to tinkering with words more than they do to facts. Frank Luntz also knows this, as does Newt Gingrich. Of course, their tactic was about changing words to make people more fearful and divided. Fairness is about uniting people. Only if you start to try to define fairness from a conservative perspective, indoctrinated with the false idea that liberals want to divide people, do you come up with reasons that “fair” is “divisive.”

Keep Up--Te gusta losing numb nutz?

February 21st, 2012
2:21 pm

Well geez….. when you get past all of Jose’s childish namecalling and labels used by those who delightfully remain free from intellect, why he has used the term “fair tax” and yet I have yet to see him define what is “fair”. But then “fair tax” is an easy exercise for those without much sophistication in analysis but lots of blowhardness.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
2:21 pm

Towncirer: Let’s start with California, shall we?

Ok, that’s one. And not even the worst one. What’s the worst one? Come on, you know the answer – I know you do.

Josey Whales

February 21st, 2012
2:22 pm

Bill White – last year, Tebow was Jesus, well atleast to the people in the South. This year, Jeremy Lin is Jesus and Jesus(Jermey) said he will not remove himself from the WhiteHouse(Messiah).

If you couldn’t follow that logic, no cookies and milk for you tonight while you watch foxnews

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
2:23 pm

Here’s some fairness for you – if the Top 10% of wager earners make 43% of all income, they should be paying no more than 43% of all federal income taxes. But no, they pay 70% of all income taxes.

In other words, if left unchecked the Left would kill the goose because she is not laying the golden eggs fast enough or in the quantities they consume.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
2:25 pm

“I want to know what is a FAIR TAX CODE.”

Agreed. I personally would support some kind of national and state consumption tax (as do, apparently, most economists) as opposed to a personal income tax. That would be fair, in my view. It would have to be very well though out, however.

Keep Up--Te gusta losing numb nutz?

February 21st, 2012
2:27 pm

So Johnny, a child sets up a lemonade stand and makes a $2.50 profit. Someone should pay taxes on that income, right?

carlosgvv

February 21st, 2012
2:27 pm

Jose – 2:02 “they cannot give me a quantitative response”

Translation: They cannot give me a response which squares with the inane Tea Party concept of fairness which is what passes for logic with my mindless heros.

timbo

February 21st, 2012
2:28 pm

Wow, didn’t take long for that ‘birth control’ trial balloon to burst. I guess this is the new balloon, throw out some numbers that some economists think that the stimulus bill actually did some good. Dems are getting desperate.

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
2:28 pm

Towncrier – you are on the correct track with the consumption tax, but someone is directing you down a side rail. Once the bare percentage to dollar is tinered with to favor one group over another, we end up eventually right back to where we are today.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
2:29 pm

JohnnyReb: if the Top 10% of wager earners make 43% of all income, they should be paying no more than 43% of all federal income taxes.

Incorrect. T hat is known as a FLAT TAX, which just about everyone sane is opposed to.

JOSE

February 21st, 2012
2:30 pm

Adam
Fairness is the principle that lead to socialism and communism. It is from that concept that it is used to evoke an emotional response to mask any logical thought to examine it. If DEMOCRAPS enact a tax that is fair, who is the judge of it? It cannot be measured.

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
2:31 pm

Keep Up–Te gusta losing numb nutz?

February 21st, 2012
2:27 pm

“So Johnny, a child sets up a lemonade stand and makes a $2.50 profit. Someone should pay taxes on that income, right?”

Let me type this slowly….. No….a child running a lemonade stand does not pay federal income tax.

JOSE

February 21st, 2012
2:31 pm

adam
A FLAT TAX IS THE MOST FAIR OF ALL
yet its the one the DEMOCRAPS cry foul most about because it is FAIR

Granny Godzilla

February 21st, 2012
2:31 pm

mike

you are becoming tedious, again.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
2:32 pm

JOSE: Fairness is the principle that lead to socialism and communism ….If DEMOCRAPS

Really, you ought to self-examine. You are falling for one of the most human of fallacies – that because you think primarily in emotional terms, that so does everyone else.

Keep Up--Te gusta losing numb nutz?

February 21st, 2012
2:32 pm

Johnny, why they made income and would be part of your 100% calculation. So who makes up their %? You mean some group is going to pay more than their % of the total pie so your children don’t pay income tax on income?

Adam

February 21st, 2012
2:35 pm

JOSE: A FLAT TAX IS THE MOST FAIR OF ALL

I strongly disagree. Flat Tax means those who can least afford to pay tax have a reduced ability to survive, whereas those at the top, well beyond the poverty line, are not hurt at all by the tax rate. It is unfair to those on the bottom to make it harder for them to survive.

JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!

February 21st, 2012
2:36 pm

The entire cost of the Iraq War was less than…

Say that garbage to the four thousand, five hundred plus American families who got back nothing more than a folded American flag.

http://www.historiann.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/stfu.jpg

MiltonMan

February 21st, 2012
2:36 pm

Oh yes, the Booth School. The same school that bascially labeled Obama a liar when he stated that the “Cash for Clunkers” program pulled car sales ahead 4+ years when in reality that was about 8+ months.

Also, would be interested in knowing the 40 experts answer to this question:

Was Obama truthful when he stated “shovel ready projects”?

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
2:36 pm

Adam – when I went through boot camp in 1966, my TI introduced me to the term “deep $hit.” We are in that state presently in this country because of all the free rides. There are almost enough people on the government dole to vote out any chance of righting the ship. You need to ask yourself what will happen to us when so many vote against character and personal responsibility that our Nation comes to an end? Never happen you say. Well, to that I say BS. It can happen and we are close to being there.

Big Brother

February 21st, 2012
2:37 pm

The following are 18 statistics that show the economy has not improved since this administration took office:

#1 Today there are 88 million working age Americans that are not employed and that are not looking for employment. That is an all-time record high.

#2 When Barack Obama was elected, the percentage of unemployed Americans that had been out of work for more than 52 weeks was less than 15%. Today, it is above 30%.

#3 There are 1.2 million fewer jobs in America today than there were when Barack Obama was inaugurated.

#4 When Barack Obama first took office, the number of “long-term unemployed workers” in the United States was approximately 2.6 million. Today, that number is sitting at 5.6 million.

#5 The average duration of unemployment in the United States is hovering close to an all-time record high.

#6 During the Obama administration, worker health insurance costs have risen by 23 percent.

#7 Since Barack Obama has been president, the average price of a gallon of gasoline in the United States has increased by 90 percent.

#8 Since Barack Obama has been president, home values in the United States have declined by another 13 percent.

#9 Under Barack Obama, new home sales in the U.S. set a brand new all-time record low in 2009, they set a brand new all-time record low again in 2010, and they set a brand new all-time record low once again during 2011.

#10 Since Barack Obama took office, the number of Americans living in poverty has risen by more than 6 million.

#11 Since Barack Obama entered the White House, the number of Americans on food stamps has increased from 32 million to 46 million.

#12 The amount of money that the federal government gives directly to Americans has increased by 32 percent since Barack Obama entered the White House.

#13 According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the percentage of Americans living in “extreme poverty” is now sitting at an all-time high.

#14 When Barack Obama first took office, an ounce of gold was going for about $850. Today an ounce of gold costs more than $1700 an ounce.

#15 Since Barack Obama became president, the size of the U.S. national debt has increased by 44 percent.

#16 During Barack Obama’s first two years in office, the U.S. government added more to the U.S. national debt than the first 100 U.S. Congresses combined.

#17 During the Obama administration, the U.S. government has accumulated more debt than it did from the time that George Washington took office to the time that Bill Clinton took office.

#18 The U.S. national debt has been increasing by an average of more than 4 billion dollars per day since the beginning of the Obama administration..

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
2:38 pm

“Ok, that’s one. And not even the worst one. What’s the worst one? Come on, you know the answer – I know you do.”

I don’t know. I am unable to find current data (http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html). Up until 2005, In terms of percentages, most of the southern states take in more than they give. But that was before the Great Recession hit us. My impression is that now, badly managed states like California, are veritable black holes.

Mick

February 21st, 2012
2:38 pm

**Well, to that I say BS. It can happen and we are close to being there.**

Yes, and you can thank the previous president for putting us squarely on the course…

md

February 21st, 2012
2:39 pm

“So Johnny, a child sets up a lemonade stand and makes a $2.50 profit. Someone should pay taxes on that income, right?”

Probably wouldn’t be a bad idea to teach them early and often……welcome to the real world kid.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
2:41 pm

“Towncrier – you are on the correct track with the consumption tax, but someone is directing you down a side rail. Once the bare percentage to dollar is tinered with to favor one group over another, we end up eventually right back to where we are today.”

I agree that politicians can corrupt almost anything. What is exasperating is to be always flooded with rhetoric but never given any specifics on paper. Newt at least was willing to put things on paper for us to see.

Mick

February 21st, 2012
2:41 pm

big brother

More than half of your stats should be attributed to the previous president. It is more than slanted…

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
2:42 pm

Jose — “Liberals cannot process or analyze facts or statistics. They only process emotion.”

and

“The DEMOCRAPS are the FAIRNESS nazis.”

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
2:44 pm

“I strongly disagree. Flat Tax means those who can least afford to pay tax have a reduced ability to survive, whereas those at the top, well beyond the poverty line, are not hurt at all by the tax rate. It is unfair to those on the bottom to make it harder for them to survive.”

You have to make buying essential goods and services for low income people possible – either by exempting those things (which I think would lead to a lot of fraud) or simply lowering or eliminating corporate tax rates in exchange for a higher minimum wage (say, 9-10 dollars).

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
2:46 pm

md – don’t be tagging alonmg with KeepUp. It’s ridiculous and you know it. He started the lemonade stand as a canard. I don’t even know why I respond to you, except to point out that when the Left runs out of legitimate rebuttal they always go to personal attacks or in this case a canard.

JOSE

February 21st, 2012
2:47 pm

Adam
So its FAIR for those at the bottom to pay no federal taxes while those in the middle do pay taxes. Those in the middle are not hurt by taxes? Explain the FAIRNESS. Your definition of fairness is based on a emotional world view. YOU PROVE MY POINT. FAIRNESS is that everyone pays the same rate no matter what. Now what I propose is a graduate flat tax rates at scaling income levels
………………………………… its not about FAIRNESS….. there is NO FAIRNESS……… it cannot be quantified…………..

Mick

February 21st, 2012
2:48 pm

reb

**when the Left runs out of legitimate rebuttal they always go to personal attacks or in this case a canard.**

Funny how both sides make the same claim. I take a person’s argument at face value, we just might disagree..

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
2:48 pm

Towncrier – I believe basic goods such as groceries are exempted from taxes in no-income-tax states like Florida. There is no reason it could not be so for a Flat Tax state, but it would apply to everyone, not just low income.

JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!

February 21st, 2012
2:50 pm

“Liberals cannot process or analyze facts or statistics. They only process emotion.”

Hysterical.

Especially, considering that the person who wrote that has not posted one single fact today.

In seven posts, ZERO facts.

As Ann Landers used to write, “Who raised these vegetables?”

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
2:50 pm

OK, I’ve been in/out trying to also get some work done, but it’s not happening. Read you later.

Beefcake

February 21st, 2012
2:50 pm

Unequivocal wa$te of $$$

Jobs? what jobs? the main reason the phony unemployment # goes down this election year is because people stop looking for jobs and drop out of the workforce…this has been thoroughly documented by those in the know.

wake up peoples

md

February 21st, 2012
2:51 pm

“md – don’t be tagging alonmg with KeepUp. It’s ridiculous and you know it. He started the lemonade stand as a canard. I don’t even know why I respond to you, except to point out that when the Left runs out of legitimate rebuttal they always go to personal attacks or in this case a canard.”

Merely stating that I think it would be a good idea to tax the kids…….they need to learn some time, better sooner than later. Lifes little lessons on everyday finances seems to be missing in today’s education………

Keep Up--Te gusta losing numb nutz?

February 21st, 2012
2:52 pm

Johnny can’t defend his statement against even a simple situation so he labels it a canard and runs away.

Mick

February 21st, 2012
2:52 pm

**this has been thoroughly documented by those in the know.**

Yeah, people like rush, hannity or any of the other thousand or so right wing blowhards backed up by clear channel…

Democrat's High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
2:53 pm

Questions:
1. Jay’s so-called Top Economists from a Chicago College that’s supported by taxpayers money and
has special intrests in the stimus money that they will recieve from the taxpayers money. As well
as the teacher’s unions.
2. Chicago is Obama’s hometown. Of course they will support anything this idiot corrupt president
from Chicago will do.
4. By a 4-1 margin, in a poll conducted by a respected institution with a conservative reputation, a cross section of the nation’s most respected economists believe that the stimulus would prove to be a net positive for the economy, even after it is paid back. By a margin of 20-1, they believe that it produced jobs and lowered the unemployment rate.” WHO is this so-called conservative institution?

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
2:54 pm

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
2:19 pm
There are solutions to our problems and a true leader gets people of opposing viewpoints to come together to find them.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well President Obama isn’t a leader that’s for sure. Unfortunately he is better than any of the candidates for the Republicans that I have seen, they aren’t leaders either. Shame we couldn’t get Colin Powell to run (for either party) now THERE is a man who knows how to be a leader.

HDB

February 21st, 2012
2:55 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-failure-of-austerity-politics/2012/02/20/gIQAqUaAQR_story_1.html

It’s not the right time to practice austerity measures…..the government should spend money in an economic downturn….and curtail spending during economic peaks! If we look at Europe, the examples speak volumes……

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
2:55 pm

“Now what I propose is a graduate flat tax rates at scaling income levels”

Well, if memory serves me, there is an economic principle called the marginal propensity to consume (MPC). Basically, people are going to spend most of what they earn. So rich people will still pay a lot in taxes. The graduated taxes could be realized on luxury or so-called “sinful” items (like tobacco) – things not necessary for survival.

Democrat's High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
2:55 pm

More democrat lying trash to the juicedrinkers so that they will re-elect the communist president Obama.

Keep Up--Te gusta losing numb nutz?

February 21st, 2012
2:56 pm

md, I don’t disagree about teaching kids and educating them. But the simple point to counter the absurdity of Johnny’s oversimplistic statement was that because the “kids” are part of the 100% income pie UNLESS they pay taxes, then the X group is X% of the pie and that is the cap of what they should pay fails in all cases. So in very simple easy terms, unless 100% of all income is taxed, then one group or all other groups will pay more than their % of the “income pie”. Johnny proposed a bumper sticker mentality to a complicated and nuance discussion of taxes and determining an acceptable basis of taxation.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
2:57 pm

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
2:36 pm

Adam – when I went through boot camp in 1966, my TI introduced me to the term “deep $hit.” We are in that state presently in this country because of all the free rides. There are almost enough people on the government dole to vote out any chance of righting the ship. You need to ask yourself what will happen to us when so many vote against character and personal responsibility that our Nation comes to an end? Never happen you say. Well, to that I say BS. It can happen and we are close to being there.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The real problem is all you old blue hairs (or no hairs) on medicare and medicaid bankrupting us all.

Mick

February 21st, 2012
2:58 pm

Teachers unions? Then how come more than 100,000 teachers lost their jobs nationwide? How does the stimulus which is federal affect teachers whom are under local and state policy? Knee jerk anti-union mucscle spasms schould be controlled…

Beefcake

February 21st, 2012
2:58 pm

Mick maybe you should stop listening to blowhard drivel

just sayin’ + no one blows as hard as ‘bama

Adam

February 21st, 2012
2:59 pm

Towncrier: You’re not approaching the subject honestly. Don’t you want to know WHY this is happening in states that are mostly Republican? Even districts have more federal intake than outflow that are majority Republican. I’m not going to say it’s BECAUSE they are Republican, but I think some study needs to be done as to why this is happening. My guess is that it has to do with income levels, and that lower income levels cause a spiral of less money for education, therefore less quality education, therefore a misunderstanding of what government programs are and who gets them, prejudice, etc, and therefore people take in more than they realize because they are less able to judge THEMSELVES for taking government money because they don’t think it’s even happening, or it’s “just a small amount” to them.

md

February 21st, 2012
2:59 pm

“It’s not the right time to practice austerity measures….”

Greece and the old USSR would probably agree…….but one just recently found out where that leads and is now taking a beating under the austerity sledge hammer…….the other never had the chance to find out if austerity would have worked.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
2:59 pm

“Unfortunately he is better than any of the candidates for the Republicans that I have seen, they aren’t leaders either.”

I disagree. Romney would be a better leader than Obama. He has proven executive experience on many levels – something Obama didn’t have at all until he took his internship at the WH. But I am not a big Romney fan. A brokered convention may produce a better leader for the nominee.

Mick

February 21st, 2012
3:00 pm

beefcake

So, you think I should be listening to santorum? Ummm…no thanks…

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:00 pm

Fred: Well President Obama isn’t a leader that’s for sure

Bull

Democrat's High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:00 pm

Fred, You’re wrong Sir Obama is FAR worst than any of the Republican Candidates. At lease the Republicans love our Country and believe in the U.S.Constitution. Comrade Obama doesn’t and he hates America. By the way Obama promised to restore other Nation’s respect for America. But today most other Nations think less of us for electing such a loser as Obama. Europe and Israel hate Obama.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
3:00 pm

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
2:48 pm

Towncrier – I believe basic goods such as groceries are exempted from taxes in no-income-tax states like Florida. There is no reason it could not be so for a Flat Tax state, but it would apply to everyone, not just low income.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

JohnnyReb: Have you read Jay’s articles to the right on the flat tax? I mean REALLY read them? I ask because you are the one who said you don’t read links………..

JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!

February 21st, 2012
3:01 pm

Damn lying liberal Democrats…

“Is this dude serious? Fiscal conservative? Really?” asks the narrator in the ad. “Santorum voted to raise the debt ceiling five times, doubled the size of the Department of Education, then supported the biggest entitlement expansion since the 1960’s. Not groovy. Santorum voted to send billions of our tax dollars to dictators in North Korea and Egypt, and even hooked Planned Parenthood up with a few million bucks. Rick Santorum a fiscal conservative? Fake.”

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/21/paul-ad-slams-santorum/

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:02 pm

Austerity only solves one thing – the bottom line. It doesn’t take into account, or doesn’t care about, what happens to those who get hit by such measures. It also causes inflation rather than prevents it.

Shawny

February 21st, 2012
3:02 pm

ok, ok. We need to really break this down. First, understand that spending while the economy is down and saving (paying back debts) when the economy is abuzz is widely accepted as a way to balance the highs and lows. The challenge to this is that we are way, way, way in debt at levels never before seen. So, it is tough to do the spending thing.

I challenge the first point made, Jay. It is ‘leading the witness’ with the obvious. It says that the unemployment rate is lower with the first stimulus than without. DUH, if the government hired one government worker, then it is lower by default. It does not mean that it was a good use of funds.

The problem with government spending is that there is so much waste in the bureacracy and layers of crap. A dollar of spending (via increased deficit/debt) does not give us a dollar of value. It generally just digs a bigger hole.

I suggest rather a flat tax, taking out all deductions and loopholes. Then we will not have to hear ‘buffet rule’ again. The 1% will pay a lot more and those that pay absolutely nothing will pay a smidgen. Imagine the new revenue.

williebkind

February 21st, 2012
3:02 pm

First of all Jay, I do not believe any charts put out by the progressive liberals. They are not trustworthy. I guess you make enough money that the price of gas does not have an impact in your life style.

Mick

February 21st, 2012
3:03 pm

Who really cares what israel or europe think…isn’t that usually the standard republican reply? Obama is respected a hundred times more by both countries than the previous knucklehead…

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:03 pm

JamVet: “Not groovy?”

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
3:03 pm

Beefcake

February 21st, 2012
2:50 pm

Unequivocal wa$te of $$$

Jobs? what jobs? the main reason the phony unemployment # goes down this election year is because people stop looking for jobs and drop out of the workforce…this has been thoroughly documented by those in the know.

wake up peoples
+++++++++++++++++++++++

And here starts the usual drive by with the alts from the typical people. nothing factual or of any intellectual content, just running through spewing vomitus…………

williebkind

February 21st, 2012
3:05 pm

The canceling of the pipeline will effect the economy more than the stimulus aided the taxpayer. I got it–LET US STARVE AN OIL BASED ECONOMY OF OIL AND TALK ABOUT THE STIMULUS AND ABORTION!

md

February 21st, 2012
3:05 pm

“Then how come more than 100,000 teachers lost their jobs nationwide?”

From my personal experience, layoffs were quite common…….it just happened to be the ones at the bottom of the totem pole that got the ax…….basically due to the “senior” folks voting to keep the staus quo……which meant they kept their jobs while the folks at the bottom got the shaft……..

CJ

February 21st, 2012
3:05 pm

Towncrier,

The marginal propensity to consume does not suggest that “people are going to spend most of what they earn.” It suggests that as our income grows, the percentage of income that we spend falls–and vice versa. In other words, by necessity, poorer families spend most or all of their incomes. On the other and, wealthier people spend smaller portions of their incomes.

In fact, that’s the MPC is one of the justifications for a graduated income tax structure. To avoid taxing income that would otherwise be spent, to the extent possible, government tries only to tax discretionary incomes.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
3:05 pm

Democrat’s High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:00 pm

Fred, You’re wrong Sir Obama is FAR worst than any of the Republican Candidates. At lease the Republicans love our Country and believe in the U.S.Constitution. Comrade Obama doesn’t and he hates America. By the way Obama promised to restore other Nation’s respect for America. But today most other Nations think less of us for electing such a loser as Obama. Europe and Israel hate Obama.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Wow, and here is another.

Have you anything other than useless rhetoric to add sir? Any facts? Any figures? Anything other than a nonsensical rant that looks like something my daughters 4th grade teacher would give her an f on for thought, content and spelling?

Please. Have another beer.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:06 pm

Jobs? what jobs? the main reason the phony unemployment # goes down this election year is because people stop looking for jobs and drop out of the workforce…this has been thoroughly documented by those in the know.

Incorrect. ALL unemployment metrics have gone down over the past five months, including the number of unemployed, no longer looking, and part time employed.

Democrat's High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:06 pm

Teachers unions in Ws won’t even pay a small amount towards their benefits package like everybody eles does. They are so fat and dishonest. Unions are RAN by a bunch of corrupt thugs that support any lying democrat like Obama. They seal your money from your pay checks and force their candidates on you. And Adam Obama is full of bull. You were close but not all there.

JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!

February 21st, 2012
3:07 pm

Flip Romney is a dead man walking. And stumbling right into the next McCaining.

There is only one reason that he will be the nominee and that is because the Keystone Cop Trio keep stepping on their own tongues…

I do not believe any charts that don’t say exactly what I want them to say. ~Thomas Jefferson

Mick

February 21st, 2012
3:07 pm

md

**basically due to the “senior” folks voting to keep the staus quo……which meant they kept their jobs while the folks at the bottom got the shaft……..**

So, you’re advocating that the people that put in the time and experience should move aside for the younger inexperienced? What profession does that? Police? Fireman? CPA’s? Lawyers? Doctors?

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
3:08 pm

“I’m not going to say it’s BECAUSE they are Republican, but I think some study needs to be done as to why this is happening. My guess is that it has to do with income levels, and that lower income levels cause a spiral of less money for education, therefore less quality education, therefore a misunderstanding of what government programs are and who gets them, prejudice, etc, and therefore people take in more than they realize because they are less able to judge THEMSELVES for taking government money because they don’t think it’s even happening, or it’s “just a small amount” to them.”

Personally, I would like the DOE to go away and see states shoulder the responsibility for educating their citizens. Big is not necessarily good. You can see that even in the corporate world. Big means less flexibility, more bureaucracy, complacency, less creative solutions to unique problems and the like. Why do you think the American automotive industry is in so much trouble? Bad decisions at the executive level brought on by myopia, complacency and huge and unwarranted labor costs.

md

February 21st, 2012
3:08 pm

“Austerity only solves one thing – the bottom line. It doesn’t take into account, or doesn’t care about, what happens to those who get hit by such measures.”

Neither does default……….

” It also causes inflation rather than prevents it.”

So does printing money by the tons…..good thing we aren’t doing that huh……

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
3:09 pm

williebkind

February 21st, 2012
3:02 pm

First of all Jay, I do not believe any charts put out by the progressive liberals. They are not trustworthy. I guess you make enough money that the price of gas does not have an impact in your life style.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I can see where one of the top 10 business schools in the WORLD would be lacking in credibility as opposed to Rush Limbaugh………………

Nice rebuttal willie. You have me convinced…….

Obama is over

February 21st, 2012
3:09 pm

I would like to see a third question estimating GDP for the year with and without $800 billion in additional debt. Interest rates have been kept artificially low by the Fed which has created liquidity for the markets, yet banks are still not lending and the housing crisis festers on. U.S. interest rates have benefited from the flight to quality bid as a result of economic instability in Europe. As the EU stabilizes, the world is going to assess the amount of debt the U.S. is carrying in relation to GDP and interest rates will rise. The Fed will have very few bullets left to prevent this. Of course spending exorbitant amounts of money per job is going to “save” jobs in the short run. However, Obama has a record of spending for short term political gain in exchange for long term debt. Politicians tend to make economic decisions for political reasons, not economic. Maybe you are satisfied by 2.3% growth, but we need to at least double that to regain employment to precrash levels. The fundamental difference here is that rather than creating an environment for entepreneurs to succeed, Obama prefers to invest directly in companies. Thus, the government decides who will win and who will lose. When the Government decides to invest in specific market sectors, private enterprise is prevented from competing and creativity is stifled. Without realistically addressing the debt crisis by cutting spending, the economy will not grow. Clinton figured this out early on in office in the PBS documantary last night. He was able to balance the budget by cutting spending and raising taxes. Obama is trying to get re-elected by raising taxes on a small per centage of the country and massively increasing entitlement spending to gather votes. All you have to do is look at his budget proposal to realize that his plan simply will not work.

williebkind

February 21st, 2012
3:10 pm

“4th grade teacher would give her an f on for thought, content and spelling? ”

That is because your daughter’s 4th grade teacher iindoctrinates students and does not teach students.

Democrat's High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:10 pm

Fred, Thank you for your comment and hope your daughter does better, but all you have to do is look at Obama’s policies and the debt he and the democrats have created during his term so far.
Please wake up and smell the roses. This president is a liar and Obama is wrong for America.

Mick

February 21st, 2012
3:10 pm

To all you anti-unionistas out there; Unions don’t even hold a candle compared to corporate thugs and their golden parachutes. Hell, even the mafia is envious…

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:10 pm

md: Yeah, good thing the thing we aren’t doing is keeping inflation low huh?

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
3:11 pm

High Gas Content — “Teachers unions in Ws won’t even pay a small amount towards their benefits package like everybody eles does.”

Lie. The public employee unions in Wisconsin agreed to *every* concession Governor Walker demanded, if he would just permit them to retain their collective bargaining rights. He declined.

So much for your baseless assertion.

CJ

February 21st, 2012
3:11 pm

First of all Jay, I do not believe any charts put out by the progressive liberals. They are not trustworthy.

The Initiative of Global Markets is a project of the University of Chicago’s School of Business. It’s ignorant to suggest that the University of Chicago’s School of Business is “progressive liberal.” To the contrary.

In truth, williebkind doesn’t believe any charts displaying facts conflicting with his ideology.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
3:12 pm

“The marginal propensity to consume does not suggest that “people are going to spend most of what they earn.” It suggests that as our income grows, the percentage of income that we spend falls–and vice versa. In other words, by necessity, poorer families spend most or all of their incomes. On the other and, wealthier people spend smaller portions of their incomes.”

You are thinking in terms of percentages, not total amount of dollars spent. It is true that the MPC drops with more disposable income. But it is a fact that people are going to spend much of what they earn. Show me evidence of a entertainer or athlete living in a modest 2 bedroom townhouse and driving a Sentra.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:12 pm

Towncrier: First of all, the automotive industry is NOT in trouble any more. That aside, let’s address the issue of states handling their education:

Do you mean entirely? As in whatever money they get is what they spend on education? Or do you mean materially, where states decide things like curriculum? Or do you mean both?

williebkind

February 21st, 2012
3:12 pm

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
3:09 pm
Oh I am sorry, I guess we should have a consensus an forget facts again. Or we can skew the inputs to get the desired outputs. Really, liberals are good at this.

md

February 21st, 2012
3:13 pm

“So, you’re advocating that the people that put in the time and experience should move aside for the younger inexperienced? What profession does that? Police? Fireman? CPA’s? Lawyers? Doctors?”

No, I’m in favor of making it but one variable in the equation of many…….with merit being the predominant component. Even as I age, I’m under no illusion that there aren’t plenty out there that can do things better and faster than I can……..so it’s up to me to position myself accordingly.

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
3:13 pm

Dear md @ 1:50 and Poor Boy @ 1:56, brilliant analysis by each of you, thanks for posting.

Democrat's High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:14 pm

Fred comment ” can see where one of the top 10 business schools in the WORLD would be lacking in credibility as opposed to Rush Limbaugh………………

Nice rebuttal willie. You have me convinced…….”
The University of Chicago is not one of the top ten business schools in the WORLD. Only in Jay’s and your mind Fred.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:14 pm

Towncrier: You are thinking in terms of percentages, not total amount of dollars spent.

Isn’t that what YOU’RE doing by talking about charts of percentage of taxes versus percentage of income earned?

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:14 pm

md: No, I’m in favor of making it but one variable in the equation of many…….with merit being the predominant component. Even as I age, I’m under no illusion that there aren’t plenty out there that can do things better and faster than I can……..so it’s up to me to position myself accordingly

Agreed.

Democrat's High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:17 pm

CJ, Most Colleges today are ran by liberals and taught by liberal teachers. Look for yourself.

CJ

February 21st, 2012
3:18 pm

Towncrier,

You are correct. I AM thinking in terms of percentages. You should be too because the marginal propensity to consume IS a percentage.

It’s a figure between 0 and 1. For example, if the MPC for a certain income category is 1, the meaning is that, on average, those in that income bracket will spend 100 percent of their income. If the MPC for another income category is .5, then on average, those in that category will spend 50 percent of their incomes.

The MPC doesn’t say that rich people don’t spend a lot of money. It says that they spend a smaller percentage of their incomes than the middle class and the middle class spends a smaller percentage of their incomes than the poor.

md

February 21st, 2012
3:18 pm

“md: Yeah, good thing the thing we aren’t doing is keeping inflation low huh?”

Just a matter of time Adam…..just a matter of time. Bernanke is a hair late on the lever, and hang on for the blast off.

Stevie Ray

February 21st, 2012
3:19 pm

JAY,

I saw the GA GOP wingnuts are pressing for ban on abortions beyond 20 weeks. In response, GA Dems have meeting to propose ban on vasectomies…..too strange for fiction. How much more aburdities need we endure in contempt of our tax dollars.????

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:19 pm

CJ, Most Colleges today are ran by liberals and taught by liberal teachers. Look for yourself.

Even if you’re right, so what? Does that necessarily mean they’re trying to do anything more than teach the realities of math and science when they teach those classes?

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
3:19 pm

JRebIncome Category 2009AGI % of All Income % Taxes Paid
Top 1% >$343,927 17% 37%
Top 5% >$154,643 32% 59%
Top 10% >$112,124 43% 70%
Top 25% >$66,193 66% 87%
Top 50% >$32,396 87% 98%
Bottom 50% <$32,396 13% 2%

That still doesn’t dispute what I posted. “But among families making more than $100,000, there were also half a million tax units — enough to replace the population of Tucson, Arizona — that also paid no income tax. Even more surprising, 7,000 millionaires also paid no individual income tax.”

While you, and others try to pretend that the 47%-50% who pay no income tax are all welfare shopping, Cadillac riding, 5 kids with no daddy women, the fact is there are those who are in the top 1% who belong to the bottom 50% who pay no taxes. Quoting the percentage paid by groups does not prove that everybody in that percentile pays or does not pay. In the same thought, posting averages does not prove that everybody pays either.

——————————-

By the way if you do the math each so called job created by the failed stimulus costs tax payers $278,000. Is this success????

It’s definitely not a successful talking point when you consider a third of the stimulus was tax cuts. It’s a common theme that conservatives do not equate tax cuts to spending, therefore your math is faulty as you’re trying to use the amount of the entire package, including tax cuts, to calculate a spending total. Typical rhetorical fail….

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
3:19 pm

Granny Godzilla:

Prove me wrong….

MrLiberty

February 21st, 2012
3:19 pm

These of course are the SAME economists who never saw the housing bubble coming, never saw the crash of 2008 coming, never saw the collapse of the housing bubble coming, actually believe the government inflation figures, actually believe the government employment figures, think printing money out of thin air can actually create wealth, and every other historically-disproved Keynesian theory about economics. These clowns are “top economists” because they tell the lies the Fed and the government need them to tell so they get employed at the prestigious institutions that feed at the federal trough. Wow, what a self-fulfilling cycle.

Ron Paul on the other hand along with ALL of the Austrian Economists, accurately predicted the housing bubble (and warned everyone on the floor of the congress in a speech), accurately predicted the collapse of the economy, the housing bubble, the massive inflation we are now seeing, etc.

Who are you actually going to believe? The folks who were wrong on every account or the folks who have always been right??

go to www(dot)mises(dot)org and read what the economists who have been correct have been saying since the creation of the criminal Federal Reserve. Plenty of free books and articles at this site.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:19 pm

md: Just a matter of time Adam…..just a matter of time. Bernanke is a hair late on the lever, and hang on for the blast off.

Saved for a later “I told you so”

CJ

February 21st, 2012
3:20 pm

Democrat’s High Gas Prices,

We’re not talking about most colleges. We’re talking about the University of Chicago’s School of Business.

Democrat's High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:20 pm

Obama and his commie friends need to be removed from office all of them left and right. America needs a real conservative leader not another liberal idiot like Obama. One that believes in America and will stand up for her Constitution.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:20 pm

md: And btw, saying that EVENTUALLY you will be proven right is a logical fallacy. Let’s deal in the here and now and historical fact, shall we?

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
3:20 pm

Obama is over

February 21st, 2012
3:09 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++
That was a really sweet piece. Did you get it via email and do you go around from blog to blog posting that propaganda?

Joseph Goebbels would be so proud of you and your republican buddies. you do credit to all his fie work.

Democrat's High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:21 pm

CJ, They are included thank you.

Obama's Gas is Offensive

February 21st, 2012
3:22 pm

Obama’s refusal to approve the keystone pipeline and his refusal to approve more domestic oil production could be his downfall in November but it might be the nations as well if we go back into deep recession.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:22 pm

MrLiberty: and every other historically-disproved Keynesian theory about economics.

Please, give me some historic proof. And try to do better than “lost decade” or “Greece” please.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
3:22 pm

“Isn’t that what YOU’RE doing by talking about charts of percentage of taxes versus percentage of income earned?”

The poster to whom I was responding said the MPC was lower among the wealthier, and that is true as they tens to save more. But my point was that they are nonetheless going to spend much of what they earn and if they have to pay higher consumption taxes for things like yachts and planes and mansions, the tax revenue will not decline.

Democrat's High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:22 pm

Fred, Obama and Joseph Goebbels would be so proud of you and the corruption lead by the democrats and the liberal mainstreet media.

CJ

February 21st, 2012
3:23 pm

Democrat’s High Gas Prices,

As I said, just because someone presents facts that conflict with your ideology, that doesn’t usually make that somebody a “progressive liberal.” But if saying that the earth is round makes me a progressive liberal, then so be it.

JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!

February 21st, 2012
3:23 pm

The University of Chicago is not one of the top ten business schools in the WORLD.

Meat, did you even graduate from high school?

The University of Chicago Booth School of Business is a graduate business school located in Chicago, Illinois, at the University of Chicago. Formerly known as the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business, Chicago Booth is the second oldest business school in the U.S., the first such school to offer an Executive MBA program, and the first to initiate a Ph.D. program in Business.

Chicago Booth was ranked 1st in the United States by Bloomberg BusinessWeek in 2006, 2008 and 2010. The program was also ranked 2nd globally in the 2011 The Economist MBA ranking. Chicago Booth was ranked 3rd in the Forbes Best Business Schools Ranking 2011. The MBA program was ranked 3rd (after Harvard and Stanford) in The Poets&Quants composite ranking of the five major rankings. US News, in the 2011 Best Business Schools ranking, ranked Chicago Booth 5th, while its Executive MBA program was ranked 2nd, and its Part Time program was ranked 1st. The School was indexed as the 6th best Business School in North America in the 2010 QS Global 200 Business Schools Report.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:24 pm

Towncrier: But my point was that they are nonetheless going to spend much of what they earn and if they have to pay higher consumption taxes for things like yachts and planes and mansions, the tax revenue will not decline.

Such an argument is conflating the idea of dollars (first half of your sentence) and percentages (the amount, percentage wise, they would have to spend on such things would not be revenue neutral to the income tax code of now).

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
3:24 pm

Democrat’s High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:10 pm

Fred, Thank you for your comment and hope your daughter does better, but all you have to do is look at Obama’s policies and the debt he and the democrats have created during his term so far.
Please wake up and smell the roses. This president is a liar and Obama is wrong for America.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And you STILL have offered nothing of substance. Nothing other than a few bumper sticker slogans tossed together. Nothing but hate of Obama and your “belief.”

I realize that is enough for you talk radio folks, but us independents require a little more. We not only THINK, but we think for ourselves. If you have nothing to offer then I will have to put you obn the “nothing to say worth reading” ignore list.

TaxPayer

February 21st, 2012
3:25 pm

Republicans are just gonna have to face the fact that their lame attempts to destroy our economy have failed. Go drown your sorrows in a keg of Pabst.

Democrat's High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:26 pm

Adam, “Even if you’re right, so what? Does that necessarily mean they’re trying to do anything more than teach the realities of math and science when they teach those classes?”
YES, they are trying to brainwaste the students minds with their liberal GOD hating agenda’s
They should stick to the subjects and leave their politics at home.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:26 pm

BTW Towncrier I would like to say thank you for having a reasonable discussion so far.

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
3:26 pm

Fred™

Are you acting like a liberal today?? I keep seeing you being referred to as a liberal.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
3:26 pm

“Do you mean entirely? As in whatever money they get is what they spend on education? Or do you mean materially, where states decide things like curriculum? Or do you mean both?”

Monetarily and materially. Maybe the DOE could remain as a small department that articulated some reduced core or educational standards. It is a very costly behemoth.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
3:27 pm

“BTW Towncrier I would like to say thank you for having a reasonable discussion so far.”

Likewise, my friend.

Peadawg - GA female house democrats are craze

February 21st, 2012
3:28 pm

After getting my lovely tax return…no way I’m voting for Republicans so they can raise my taxes to pay for the wealthy’s tax cuts.

What’s with the 9% unemployment I’m hearing about?

Georgia, The " New Mississippi "

February 21st, 2012
3:28 pm

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Jay……………Johnny Reb Economists disagree .

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
3:28 pm

williebkind

February 21st, 2012
3:12 pm

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
3:09 pm
Oh I am sorry, I guess we should have a consensus an forget facts again. Or we can skew the inputs to get the desired outputs. Really, liberals are good at this.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sorry bro but that didn’t make a lick of sense. Calm down and type all the words you want. I think you left some out there.

I know you far right nut cases like to over simplify, but let me help you. The University of Chicago was there LONG before Mubarak Obama moved in, so there is no inherent “Chicago connection” there. Their business school is the second oldest in the Country I think. They are most usually considered to be right wing. Your rant is appearing to be highly irrational and completely illogical. You may want to go back and rethink what you want to say……

Democrat's High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:29 pm

Fred, You’re not an independant. You’re an Obama democrat. If you don’t see the destruction this ptuz is doing then you are dumb and blind Sir. And I pray you’re not, Best to you.

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
3:30 pm

http://nation.foxnews.com/tim-tebow/2012/02/21/10-year-old-girl-gets-special-night-out-tebow

Stevie Ray

February 21st, 2012
3:31 pm

TAXPAYER

I thought they ruined it before BO and the only reason it still sux is because of Bush. Will if be ok with you if BO gets run out of office and replaced with similar spineless dolt of the GOP variety, that the new guy uses his first 4 years laying blame on the fact that “things were much worse that we expected” and it’s not our fault. How will you respond to that? Your guy is a spineless crony no different that the GOP folks, all of congress and most of the cabinet. He has crap record….healthcare bill passed in dark that is constituionally challenged, more warmongering, drone strikes…although he did say “ok” to get OBL but that was only brought about by 10 years of rebuilding intelligence network that last democrat pres destroyed….wasted our money like a drunk sailor..they are the same and taking any other position is naive.

md

February 21st, 2012
3:31 pm

Just to stir the pot a bit and lather up the conspiracy group:

“Researchers at the University of Chicago have been awarded more than $42 million in research funding from the National Institutes of Health, part of a $5 billion boost for medical research from the federal economic stimulus package.

The funding, the most awarded to any Illinois research institution, will fund cutting-edge research in genetics, medicine and biodefense and help advance effective treatments for asthma, pulmonary disease and cancer.”

Tit for tat??

JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!

February 21st, 2012
3:32 pm

The thing that is so funny about the academic hating, semi-literate, intelligence averse nitwits like high gas meat is that if he were even a tad culturally, or otherwise, literate he would know that that school is very prestigious and world renown for it’s status as one of the very best anywhere.

But yet he is apparently an expert on all matters related to education.

Good times out there in the lunatic fringe…

Democrat's High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:32 pm

“Peadawg – GA female house democrats are craze

February 21st, 2012
3:28 pm
After getting my lovely tax return…no way I’m voting for Republicans so they can raise my taxes to pay for the wealthy’s tax cuts.

What’s with the 9% unemployment I’m hearing about?”

Wrong party, the democrats are the tax increase party aswell as the socialist do no good party. Lead by Obama, King Harry Reid, Queen Pelosi. All democrat liars.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
3:33 pm

Democrat’s High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:14 pm

Fred comment ” can see where one of the top 10 business schools in the WORLD would be lacking in credibility as opposed to Rush Limbaugh………………

Nice rebuttal willie. You have me convinced…….”
The University of Chicago is not one of the top ten business schools in the WORLD. Only in Jay’s and your mind Fred.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
My mind and the minds of most of the people who rank these things. I can only provide you two links of the hundreds available because I think two is all Jay’s blog allows:

http://bestmba.org/

Whoop, here ya go, I’ll toss you a bone, in this one they are only 11th………… the lowest I could find them lol

http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/global-mba-rankings-2012

You right wing nutcases really DON’T think before you post do you? Do you ever think at all?

WOODSTOCK MIKE

February 21st, 2012
3:33 pm

When Obama says that in America a few people are doing well and the rest are struggling to get by do liberals really believe that? Wow, scary…

Democrat's High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:35 pm

JamVet, You can beat my meat and any name you call me is still better than you the one that has to tell the cops where you live and move so that they can keep you away from the school kids. Aren’t you still on that list downtown?

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
3:35 pm

“Such an argument is conflating the idea of dollars (first half of your sentence) and percentages (the amount, percentage wise, they would have to spend on such things would not be revenue neutral to the income tax code of now).”

The MPC cannot be known, as it is not fixed. Some have suggested it is, as a rule, about 90% of income. But while an income tax can be fixed, the income from which it is drawn cannot be known. So there are going to be uncertainties with any tax system. A consumption tax is attractive to me because it is simple, does not require expensive and massive oversight and enforcement, gives politicians much fewer ways of accommodating “special interests” and is essentially fair (that is, everyone pays some amount of taxes).

WOODSTOCK MIKE

February 21st, 2012
3:35 pm

@Fred

You seem so brilliant, tell me, what exactly is Obama doing that you think is so fantastic. Which specific economic policy has Obama implemented that makes you say, man, this guy is a great president?

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
3:36 pm

The funny thing is you never heard Reagan blaming Carter for his mess… Obama sure and his minnows sure do blame Bush though….

Democrat's High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:36 pm

Fred You said world not in the US. You should think before you make noise.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
3:37 pm

CJ

February 21st, 2012
3:23 pm

Democrat’s High Gas Prices,

As I said, just because someone presents facts that conflict with your ideology, that doesn’t usually make that somebody a “progressive liberal.” But if saying that the earth is round makes me a progressive liberal, then so be it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

CJ, it is a troll that you are addressing, don’t waste your time. Please continue your discussion with Towncrier, you two are interesting lol.

Stevie Ray

February 21st, 2012
3:37 pm

FRED et al,

The arguement is moot until the correct answers are posed to the “stellar” panel. The right questions include: can we prove that any jobs were actually “saved” by producing subject W-2″s? Also, how much did each job cost and was it worth it?

UOC is amazing school but it doesn’t matter if its the NYLiberalTimes or FoxGOPTV, if you ask the wrong questions, sometimes you get the right answers. Not one of JAYS best efforts.

Peadawg - GA female house democrats are crazy

February 21st, 2012
3:37 pm

“Wrong party, the democrats are the tax increase party aswell as the socialist do no good party. Lead by Obama, King Harry Reid, Queen Pelosi. All democrat liars.”

Um…I don’t believe Obama has raised any taxes since he’s been in office. You may want check your email from Hannity again…it’s wrong.

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
3:38 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_school_of_economics
The Chicago school of economics describes a neoclassical school of thought within the academic community of economists, with a strong focus around the faculty of The University of Chicago, some of whom have constructed and popularized its principles. It is at times referred to as freshwater school of economics, in contrast to the salt-water school based in coastal universities (notably Harvard, MIT, and Berkeley). The University of Chicago department, considered one of the world’s foremost economics departments, has fielded more Nobel Prize laureates and John Bates Clark medalists in economics than any other university.

2 Scholars
2.1 Frank Knight
2.2 Ronald Coase
2.3 George Stigler
2.4 Milton Friedman
2.5 Robert Fogel
2.6 Gary Becker
2.7 Richard Posner
2.8 Robert E. Lucas
2.9 Eugene Fama
2.10 Friedrich Hayek

Now, I’m no economic genius, but I do recall supply side economics coming from the Chicago School. I also don’t recall supply side being a liberal platform. In essence, it’s highly amusing for someone to wave the party flag and disparage the instution that came up with said party’s economic philosophy.

Forgot the old bluenose wouldn’t like the combination of salt and water as one word…

JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!

February 21st, 2012
3:38 pm

You right wing nutcases really DON’T think before you post do you? Do you ever think at all?

Fred, he is just praying that everybody here is also horrifically uninformed, willfully ignorant and unable to do basic research.

Alas, for him that is not the case…

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
3:38 pm

@Fred

You seem so brilliant, tell me, what exactly is Obama doing that you think is so fantastic. Which specific economic policy has Obama implemented that makes you say, man, this guy is a great president?

I can’t wait to hear this answer….

Democrat's High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:38 pm

Fred, Truth hurts don’t it. But GOD bless you and you family anyway.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:38 pm

They should stick to the subjects and leave their politics at home.

They ALREADY DO THAT

Peadawg - GA female house democrats are crazy

February 21st, 2012
3:39 pm

Joseph @ 3:36:

“The problems we inherited were far worse than most inside and out of government had expected; the recession was deeper than most inside and out of government had predicted. Curing those problems has taken more time and a higher toll than any of us wanted.”

From R

Peadawg - GA female house democrats are crazy

February 21st, 2012
3:39 pm

That was from Reagan’s 1983 State of the Union.

josef

February 21st, 2012
3:39 pm

Dow broke 13,000 today for the first time since 2008. Sounds like good news to me, But what do I know.
(1) buy low, sell high
(2) if the red column is more than the black column, you’re in trouble
(3) if you can’t pay cash, you can’t afford it

and HIGH GAS

What’s a ptuz?

Corey

February 21st, 2012
3:39 pm

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
3:36 pm

I don’t know how old you are, but well into his presidency Mr. Reagan did too blame his predecessor. The Internet, it’s agreat tool to waste.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
3:39 pm

“The funny thing is you never heard Reagan blaming Carter for his mess… Obama sure and his minnows sure do blame Bush though….”

I don’t know if that is actually true, but Reagan was a much classier person than most politicians in my view. His farewell message to the nation is but one proof of that.

WOODSTOCK MIKE

February 21st, 2012
3:39 pm

“Um…I don’t believe Obama has raised any taxes since he’s been in office. You may want check your email from Hannity again…it’s wrong.”

This is a classic quote above!! And can you explain why he hasn’t raised taxes? Here’s a guess, because the GOP won’t allow it you fool…

Paul

February 21st, 2012
3:39 pm

“(The Booth School itself, one of the most respected business schools in the country, has long been associated with a more conservative emphasis on free markets).”

Jay,

You are the master of understateme
You are truly the master of understatement.

Stevie Ray

“Did they ask those same economists if the cost per job at $185K per job is a great value?”

Sure beats the $1,400,000 per job for Keystone that Republicans are pushing, doesn’t it?

Brosephus

I agree it could have been done lots better. But we did end up with sausage.

That’s one of the things I think Pres Obama learned from that and the health care legislation. Lay out a broad vision, pass it off to Congress, then keep your foot firmly on their backs so they don’t forget what you want.

Oh, and your quote from Jefferson?

““Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.”

It’s ““Hell hath no fury like a woman. Period.”

Jay

I just figured out why Republicans hate the couple hundred million in tax cuts contained in the stimulus.

1. The middle class benefited. It wasn’t restricted to millionaires and billionaires.

2. Obama put it thru. So it’s gotta be bad.

JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!

February 21st, 2012
3:39 pm

Fred You said world not in the US.

Second try. (Hopeless as it is.)

The program was also ranked 2nd globally in the 2011 The Economist MBA ranking.

Obama's Gas is Offensive

February 21st, 2012
3:40 pm

WOODSTOCK MIKE,

Well, well you know he got OBL. He’s a real SEAL dontcha know.

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
3:41 pm

Pea: Um…I don’t believe Obama has raised any taxes since he’s been in office. You may want check your email from Hannity again…it’s wrong.

Rhetoric trumps truth!!! You can see that in the faulty logic that give the $200k per job figure for the stimulus. No conservative will ever consider tax cuts as spending, yet they add the amount of tax cuts AS spending to get to that total. It’s one of those “never let a good lie die” kinda things.

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
3:41 pm

Peadawg – GA female house democrats are crazy:

“Wrong party, the democrats are the tax increase party aswell as the socialist do no good party. Lead by Obama, King Harry Reid, Queen Pelosi. All democrat liars.”

Um…I don’t believe Obama has raised any taxes since he’s been in office. You may want check your email from Hannity again…it’s wrong.

That is false. He implemented a cigarette tax which disproportionately hurts the poor(base).

Democrat's High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:41 pm

Peeway, Just open your eyes and take a look at obamacare. Their is all kinds of hidden taxes in there. By the way Obamacare cuts half a trillion dollrs from medicare.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
3:42 pm

WOODSTOCK MIKE

February 21st, 2012
3:35 pm

@Fred

You seem so brilliant, tell me, what exactly is Obama doing that you think is so fantastic. Which specific economic policy has Obama implemented that makes you say, man, this guy is a great president?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I will answer your question when you can show me where I EVER said either that President Obama is fantastic or that I said the same about any of his economic policies.

Are ALL you Republicans dumber than rocks? I just posted to links showing WORLDWIDE Business school rankings and the new mystery meat troll is saying that I said Worldwide not nationwide. LOl The polls SHOW world wide.

Now here you are telling me I have said President Obama is ‘fantastic” and “great.”

I think he is marginally adequate at best. Not being a far rightwing nutcase, I’m not going to sit here and try to defend something I never said because a far right wing nutcase is hurling crap against a wall to see what sticks. When you folks can THINK address me again. Until then, bite me loser.

WOODSTOCK MIKE

February 21st, 2012
3:42 pm

Democrats are awesome, when the economy was tanking Obama had nothing to do with it, now the economy is showing some positive signs and it’s all because of Obama… LOL!!

How dumb can people be, it’s truly scary.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:42 pm

Towncrier: Society is complex, as are all the things we can buy and ways we can earn income. A tax code that ignores all that in favor of simplicity will necessarily be more unfair than fair. A complex tax system is a necessary evil, so to speak. We need to change it as needed, but trying to just make it simple is not responsible.

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
3:42 pm

He raised taxes on tanning services….

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
3:42 pm

Paul

My bad on that quote. All I know is that I do whatever it takes to not piss off the lady residing here.

The survey I read said....

February 21st, 2012
3:43 pm

….that 100% of liberals are losers. It went on to say the beauty of being a liberal is never having to take responsibility for anything because nothing is ever their fault. I mean, liberals are victims who can’t stand up for themselves to the evil corporations that lurk around every corner. Grow up and take care of yourselves you pathetic, whining, no-good babies.

Peadawg - GA female house democrats are crazy

February 21st, 2012
3:43 pm

“And can you explain why he hasn’t raised taxes?” – To compromise w/ the GOP on extending unemployment benefits. But the fact remains that Obama has never raised taxes. Just wait until November though…the rich better enjoy it while they can.

JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!

February 21st, 2012
3:44 pm

So Barry did not get Osama bin Laden but you fools give Ronnie credit for bringing down the Soviet Union singlehandedly.

You boys are a trip…

Stevie Ray

February 21st, 2012
3:44 pm

PAUL,

Mine are not blue vs red mindless bantering points. Although i will say the pipeline is not remotely simply a jobs play. How much you paying to fill your tank? Stimulus was a bust and pipeline jobs may in fact be more expensive, but we aren’t taking control of our gas situation by stimulus programs are we? When gas gets to $6, how many of those with stimulus created, low paying jobs can afford to work……be original daddio.

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
3:45 pm

I didn’t mention the close to a dozen taxes Obama will implement if Obamacare is still standing next year. So libbys saying that Obama hasn’t raised taxes are either uninformed or just lying… Plain and simple…

Democrat's High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:45 pm

GOD bless all have to go.

Peadawg - GA female house democrats are crazy

February 21st, 2012
3:45 pm

Ah yes… cigarette and tanning taxes. Cry me a river.

“Peeway, Just open your eyes and take a look at obamacare.” – Yeah I’m not arguing in favor of that. Besides not allowing insurance companies to drop/deny coverage…that bill is a p.o.s.

WOODSTOCK MIKE

February 21st, 2012
3:46 pm

“I think he is marginally adequate at best. Not being a far rightwing nutcase, I’m not going to sit here and try to defend something I never said because a far right wing nutcase is hurling crap against a wall to see what sticks. When you folks can THINK address me again. Until then, bite me loser.”

This guy above is a classic Democrat and it’s so good to see a response like this. Very telling…

In other words, he is saying that nothing is good enough, he doesn’t even like Obama, Democrats like this don’t like anything or anyone so it’s not even worth speaking to them…

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
3:46 pm

~~Democrats~~ Republicans are awesome, when the economy was tanking ~~Obama had nothing to do with it~~ it’s all because of Obama, now the economy is showing some positive signs and ~~it’s all because of Obama~~ Obama had nothing to do with it … LOL!!

How dumb can people be, it’s truly scary.

Stevie Ray

February 21st, 2012
3:46 pm

JAY,

Better hurry up and get our vasectomies huh? OMG how do you respond to that? I have absolutely no response as shocking as that may seem. We should sue them for negligence…all of them..in carrying out the oath of office and wasting our money with this…garbage…

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:47 pm

Wow, Jay engaged Joseph. I bet he feels proud. Don’t worry, his beaming will be short lived as the attention dries up from just about everyone here soon enough.

WOODSTOCK MIKE

February 21st, 2012
3:47 pm

Fred is a classic Democrat. All you have to do is read his posts and you will learn quite a bit about Democrats… Just angry people, nothing makes them happy, they just don’t like anything…

Obama's Gas is Offensive

February 21st, 2012
3:47 pm

Reagan led the way. Obama leads from behind.

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
3:48 pm

Jay:

Is that all you got Jay? At least we know you’re trying to keep up… You freaks are hillarious….

Democrat's High Gas Prices

February 21st, 2012
3:48 pm

Most of all is Obama is dishonest to all of us. Simple put he lied about most everything. Obama is wrong for America.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
3:48 pm

Brochephus: There is an unusually stupid bunch of wingers on today. They misquote, can’t read, I mean just damn.

And then there are a couple of really bright ones on as well.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:48 pm

Brosephus @ 3:46p

Peadawg - GA female house democrats are crazy

February 21st, 2012
3:48 pm

“Obama leads from behind.”

Better not bend over to pick up the soap then….

josef

February 21st, 2012
3:49 pm

Blaming the previous administration? Been going in since John Adams…

md

February 21st, 2012
3:49 pm

“Let’s deal in the here and now and historical fact, shall we?”

I did Adam…..I said we are printing money. And there will be consequences down the road. If one doesn’t think so, one might want to ask oneself why we don’t just print 16 trillion and pay off our debt……..

Peadawg - GA female house democrats are crazy

February 21st, 2012
3:49 pm

“Simple put he lied about most everything.” – You talking about Romney and all of his flip-flops on every single topic?

Stevie Ray

February 21st, 2012
3:49 pm

JOSEPH,

Did you know the HC Bill will create 159 new panels? Included in list is NATIVE AMERCAN MALE BENEFITS COMMITTEE. That’s funny I don’t care who you are.

Brosephus™ - Jackassery is as jackassery does!!!

February 21st, 2012
3:49 pm

We should sue them for negligence…all of them..in carrying out the oath of office and wasting our money with this…garbage…

Do you not think that there are females who feel the same exact way about men telling them what they can and can not do to their bodies?

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
3:49 pm

108,000 results of Obama blaming Bush… LOL…

Midori

February 21st, 2012
3:49 pm

ok — this HAS to be said: PLEASE keep Democrat’s High Gas Prices AWAY from sharp objects!!

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:49 pm

A recent interaction:

Person A Asserts B
Blog Host Displays evidence that assertion B is false
Person A says “Oh yeah? That all you got punk?”

WOODSTOCK MIKE

February 21st, 2012
3:49 pm

@Brospehus

Now you have become a far lefty. So sad… No Republicans I hang with ever said it was all Obama’s fault. The US economy is much bigger than any president. It moves regardless of economic policy. But all I ask is if you credit Obama with the economy recovering, tell me which policy made that happen?

Stevie Ray

February 21st, 2012
3:50 pm

BROCEPHUS

Stevie Ray

February 21st, 2012
3:51 pm

Brochephus,

I can’t get any play today no matter how severe a blizzard of words I submit. I’m taking my ball and going home…

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
3:51 pm

WOODSTOCK MIKE

February 21st, 2012
3:46 pm

“I think he is marginally adequate at best. Not being a far rightwing nutcase, I’m not going to sit here and try to defend something I never said because a far right wing nutcase is hurling crap against a wall to see what sticks. When you folks can THINK address me again. Until then, bite me loser.”

This guy above is a classic Democrat and it’s so good to see a response like this. Very telling…

In other words, he is saying that nothing is good enough, he doesn’t even like Obama, Democrats like this don’t like anything or anyone so it’s not even worth speaking to them…
+++++++++++++++++++++++

I’m not a democrat asshat. I’m an independent. I know that’s a tough concept for you to understand as you need someone to think for you and to hold your winky when you pee, but some of us do things all by ourselves.

Peadawg - GA female house democrats are crazy

February 21st, 2012
3:51 pm

Brosephus, why do people always think it’s just men that are against abortion?

Paul

February 21st, 2012
3:51 pm

Brosephus

“All I know is that I do whatever it takes to not piss off the lady residing here.”

Yeah, because we both know the one thing a man never wants to hear when he’s arguing with his wife::

“Just remember… you have to fall asleep sometime…

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
3:51 pm

“A tax code that ignores all that in favor of simplicity will necessarily be more unfair than fair. A complex tax system is a necessary evil, so to speak. We need to change it as needed, but trying to just make it simple is not responsible.”

“Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.” – Einstein

A lot of economists favor a consumption tax, so I am not advocating a novel or ill-considered position here. There is something very wrong with the current tax code, would you agree? It does need to be greatly simplified, no?

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
3:52 pm

There are plenty of folks that blamed Carter but out of respect for his ridiculously ineffective Presidency Reagan attacked the democrap philosophy as a whole….

Stevie Ray

February 21st, 2012
3:52 pm

BRO,

No, they are both the same and now the sandbox is getting wastefully ugly. Excessively sophomoric wouldn’t you agree?

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:52 pm

md: .I said we are printing money. And there will be consequences down the road.

So you said something current, and made a future prediction, and then went on to say you will be proven right.

For the past 2 or so years, we have been printing money, and the dire prediction of runaway inflation has yet to come to pass. Yet, in countries that have taken austerity measures, runaway inflation HAS come to pass.

Let’s deal in the here and now, as well as historical, provable fact, rather than future predictions when discussing economic policy.

Brosephus™ - Jackassery is as jackassery does!!!

February 21st, 2012
3:52 pm

Fred

I won’t call them stupid, as that would demean people who really are stupid. When I keep seeing you referred to as a Democrat, any and all credibility is lost. I love it how people automatically become Democrats just because they don’t parrot far right sh*t.

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
3:52 pm

I still haven’t heard a lib howling about the accurate reporting of Obama raising taxes…..

Stevie Ray

February 21st, 2012
3:53 pm

What is an “asshat”? Seems a clever way to get around the censors? Perhaps some on this post should go don their hairshirts….

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
3:53 pm

WOODSTOCK MIKE

February 21st, 2012
3:47 pm

Fred is a classic Democrat. All you have to do is read his posts and you will learn quite a bit about Democrats… Just angry people, nothing makes them happy, they just don’t like anything…
+++++++++++++++++++++

And to think, for some reason I once thought you had something to say worth reading. What was I thinking. I was obviously mistaken. This block gets shorter and shorter as I weed out the complete morons and scroll past their posts………….. How comne there are more right wingers than left wingers in that list?

(ir)Rational

February 21st, 2012
3:53 pm

josef – I heard a rumor that Washington blamed the past administration also.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:54 pm

Towncrier: There is something very wrong with the current tax code, would you agree? It does need to be greatly simplified, no?

There is something wrong, but I think focusing on the problem by saying it HAS to be simpler is not the right way to tackle it. It would be nice to make it simpler, but the methods of making it simpler we might disagree on. Which is probably why it’s so complex now.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
3:55 pm

Midori

February 21st, 2012
3:49 pm

ok — this HAS to be said: PLEASE keep Democrat’s High Gas Prices AWAY from sharp objects!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Good Lord have mercy dear why would you want to do that? I say seed the room with them

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:56 pm

What is an “asshat”?

This.

Paul

February 21st, 2012
3:56 pm

Stevie Ray 3:44

That post of mine about Keystone jobs costing $1,400,000 was simply to illustrate the absurdity of the claims regarding cost per job when applied to the stimulus. No way is it accurate or serious. As are many of the $/job claims relating to the stimulus.

As far as cost to fill the tank, we’ve been over that and over that and over that on this blog.

How on earth will transporting oil to a refinery on the coast of Texas, then shipping it out on tankers, lower the cost of our gasoline?

And if you quote that world-renowned, universally recognized as the most brilliant in his field, publisher of numerous peer-reviewed papers on the subject, Newt Gingrich, who says it’ll drive the price of gas down to $2 a gallon, I’m gonna throw my shoe at my monitor!

Midori

February 21st, 2012
3:56 pm

Fred –

you’re so funny

JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!

February 21st, 2012
3:57 pm

I do love it when the Tucker refugees and assorted sock puppets start showing up after the bus gets home.

http://www.hark.com/clips/tsjwmlxdjy-you-two-are-just-dumber-than-a-bag-of-hammers

(ir)Rational

February 21st, 2012
3:58 pm

Peadawg – About your handle today. If you’re against abortion because it is killing an innocent life,” shouldn’t you, by logical extension, be against men getting vasectomies, women getting their tubes tide, women getting hysterectomies, and men manually pleasuring themselves? If we’re going to have a law to stop one, why shouldn’t all become illegal? I mean, if you want to invite the government into your bedroom, then carry it out to it’s logical extreme.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
3:58 pm

NittanyLions love little boys in the showers: Saying you have to go and then changing your name is not too bright.

Brosephus™ - Jackassery is as jackassery does!!!

February 21st, 2012
3:58 pm

STEVIE RAY!!!

What’s happenin’ bro? I’m lauging my ass off at the stuff being thrown around today. According to Woodstock Mike, I’m a far lefty.

—————————

Brosephus, why do people always think it’s just men that are against abortion?

Can’t answer that one bro. I know women who are against abortion, but are more against someone telling them what they can and can not do with their bodies. That’s why I generally align myself as a pro-choice person. Personally, I don’t think abortions are necessary, except for medical emergencies. At the same time, I think it is severe overreach for the government to dictate what a person can and cannot do with their body in that manner.

——————————–

No Republicans I hang with ever said it was all Obama’s fault. The US economy is much bigger than any president.

Like hell!!! That’s the undercurrent for the anti-Jay crowd here. You can go peddle that to somebody who was born last night. People you hang with does not constitute the entire right, does it? or are you just that popular?

—————————–

Paul

Thanks. Now I’ll be singing and living “Enter Sandman” all night tonight.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
3:58 pm

Stevie Ray

February 21st, 2012
3:53 pm

What is an “asshat”? Seems a clever way to get around the censors? Perhaps some on this post should go don their hairshirts….
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I take full credit for introducing and popularizing the term on this blog.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=asshat

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
3:58 pm

“Do you not think that there are females who feel the same exact way about men telling them what they can and can not do to their bodies?”

Help me out here…how does terminating the existence of a growing fetus in your womb translate into doing what you want with your own body? I’ve never understood that expression. Some other catch phrase should be use, in my opinion.

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
3:59 pm

The libturds seem outnumbers today……

JOE Cool-Republicans Call Him MESSIAH, I Just Call Him Mr. President

February 21st, 2012
3:59 pm

“108,000 results of Obama blaming Bush…”

americans blames bush
Search
About 10,700,000 results (0.28 seconds)

josef

February 21st, 2012
3:59 pm

irRational

I thought about that, too, but at least he did something about it!

(ir)Rational

February 21st, 2012
3:59 pm

Adam – I thought it was: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheesehead

WOODSTOCK MIKE

February 21st, 2012
3:59 pm

@Brosephus

Let me ask you a very simple question. Are you struggling. Do you believe that the majority of Americans are stuggling to get by? Or, are you doing well?

jm

February 21st, 2012
3:59 pm

In another poll: Do Economists think we should continue running Trillion dollar plus deficits in perpetuity like the Obama Administration is currently doing?

99% said: No.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
4:00 pm

Towncrier: The fetus is dependent on the host, like a parasite, until born or extracted. While it is that dependent, many women view it as part of their body.

JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!

February 21st, 2012
4:00 pm

More prime time comedy. Including a reference to Scout and jm’s subterranean hang outs…

“There is something called agenda control,” said one unaffiliated GOP strategist. “Santorum does not have it. Instead of talking about the economy, he’s been going down rabbit holes for the last four or five days.”

Santorum’s emphasis on cultural issues may intensify his conservative and evangelical support and help him win the nomination or at least differentiate himself from Newt Gingrich. The fear is he may also be narrowing his support in a general election population.

And Santorum’s surging candidacy is not the only concern for senior Republicans. Mitt Romney’s inability to close the deal has also raised eyebrows – and angst. And the anxiety will only intensify should Romney lose his home state of Michigan in the primary on February 28, several senior Republicans told CNN.

Joseph

February 21st, 2012
4:01 pm

JOE Cool-Republicans Call Him MESSIAH, I Just Call Him Mr. President

American blaming Obama..

About 9,980,000 results (0.47 seconds)

What will it be by November.. Bhaaaaaaaaaa

Boris Badnoff

February 21st, 2012
4:01 pm

Would be interesting to know how many of these economists received Stimulus Money for Deep Thinking and Contemplating Their Navel. However, I must confess that some of the manna from Heaven reached my neighborhood in DeKalb county. Sidewalks were installed so my neighbors can walk their pit bulls in the rain without getting mud on their Gucci loafers. Some of it got to Puerto Rico and was used to erect a statue of The Messiah

http://www.wlfi.com/dpps/news/national/puerto-rico-unveils-statue-of-obama_4078147

They must have run short of funds as the Heavenly Teleprompter is missing.

josef

February 21st, 2012
4:01 pm

“Fred –

you’re so funny”

Yeah, but too bad looks ain’t everything…

real john

February 21st, 2012
4:01 pm

This are the same economists that are “Shocked” by the latest GDP, unemployment reports I read almost every week on CNN. Most of these economists are complete clowns. Go back the last few years and see all of their predictions. They are batting like 25% in most cases. Most were over optimistic in their GDP numbers the last three years.

Second, the questions was asked “Question A: Because of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, the U.S. unemployment rate was lower at the end of 2010 than it would have been without the stimulus bill. Agree or disagree?”

If you spend almost a trillion dollars I sure hope to God the umemployment would be some better. Thats one of the most front loaded question you can answer. That would be like giving a company $100 billion and asking “Did it help you company AT ALL.” We of course it did.

The second question is HIGHLY debatable. Also, I would like to see a list of THESE economists…Im sure the Democratics favorite son Paul Krugman was probably on there. ANYTHING TO DO WITH STIMULUS HE WILL AGREE WITH. For Jay to act like some of these economists aren’t playing political games is ridicolous. Some will agree, just because they favor stimulus funding, regardless if the numbers show otherwise.

Remember, the TAX Increases to PAY for the Stimulus haven’t kicked in yet,,,but they will

Adam

February 21st, 2012
4:01 pm

(ir)Rational: Talk about a misleading image!

(ir)Rational

February 21st, 2012
4:02 pm

josef – He definitely did something about it, but he still blamed them. Rightfully so I might add, but all the same. Blaming the previous administration is as American as Apple Pie.

Paul

February 21st, 2012
4:02 pm

Woodstock Mike

Y’know, if you spent as much time rationally arguing for positions you believe in instead of spending so much time labeling people as if that settles everything (//you are obviously an Obama-loving Democrat//) you just might persuade people to seriously consider what you’re saying.

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

February 21st, 2012
4:02 pm

Holy Smokes….come back from a meeting and it looks like someone found the Moonshine.

Recon 0311 2533

February 21st, 2012
4:02 pm

After reading some of these posts I’d recommend that we dispense with any personal reference to being a democrat or a republican. These days you’re either left of center or you’re right of center. Centrist is only a PC term that’s meaningless because there’s no such thing today if in fact there ever was. As it pertains to Independents, if you’re left of center you’ll probably vote democrat and if you’re right of center you’ll probably vote republican.

Peadawg - GA female house democrats are crazy

February 21st, 2012
4:03 pm

(ir)Rational
February 21st, 2012
3:58 pm

B/c sperm/eggs by themselves are not human life.

Masturbate all you want…doesn’t bother me a bit. Get your tubes tied, whatever. People start sounding stoopid when saying “we need to outlaw masturbation” and crazy crap like that.

(ir)Rational

February 21st, 2012
4:03 pm

Adam – I was probably kidding, but I do find them obnoxious.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
4:04 pm

I think I’m gonna get ready to get out of here.

BTW, to anyone keeping score of holidays not in your locality…. HAPPY MARDI GRAS

Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)

February 21st, 2012
4:04 pm

as luck would have it, the global economy has supplied us with two experiments, one testing each theory. The European Union embraced the austerity of Hayek and the anti-Keynesians: It is plunging into a renewed recession. Here in the United States, where President Obama supported a modest stimulus bill, auto bailouts, and some financial reregulation, the renewed auto sector is roaring back to life, and the unemployment rate is dropping at a nice clip.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_best_policy/2012/02/why_romney_is_collapsing.html

Warren/Spitzer 2016!

jm

February 21st, 2012
4:06 pm

Mitt 2012

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/25-photos-of-mitt-romney-looking-normal

(ir)Rational

February 21st, 2012
4:07 pm

Pea – People start sounding crazy when they try to get the government involved in someone’s bedroom, which is what you’re advocating. If you’re truly conservative, and hold true to the ideas that it is better to have less government than more, you would be crazy to think otherwise. I’m just pointing out the crazy.

jm

February 21st, 2012
4:07 pm

too many Berkeley profs

real john

February 21st, 2012
4:08 pm

Finn McCool….If you call 1.8% GDP and 8% unemployment rates good, I guess we have different ideas of what good is?

Spitzer…really…wow??? I can’t believe anyone would go there.

jm

February 21st, 2012
4:08 pm

100% of economists say Trillion dollar deficits: bad

WOODSTOCK MIKE

February 21st, 2012
4:08 pm

Once again, do liberals think someone making 150K a year, living in a 300K home, driving a BMW is in the 1% or the 99%? But if they are in the 99% their life must be so awful!!! How can they stand living in that 300K home or driving a BMW, I feel so bad for them!! Haha, that’s the Obama agenda, the 99% are struggling to get by, but wait, that’s a downright lie, my neighbor and his family love their life, how can that be, Obama says they are being taken advantage of??

josef

February 21st, 2012
4:09 pm

DEL

Of course there are centrists…they’re the ones getting shot in the b*tt in both cheeks,,,and they comprise, imuo, the bulk of the American population.

IMAM

I missed it, What happened?

jm

February 21st, 2012
4:09 pm

Weird. 40 top economists. Krugman, not among them.

JOE Cool-Republicans Call Him MESSIAH, I Just Call Him Mr. President

February 21st, 2012
4:09 pm

Joseph, still polling 49-50% (Rasmussen)

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/obama_approval_index_history

Polling 48% or better 7 out of 8 polls……He11, he’s polling 48% on FOX….lol

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
4:10 pm

josef

February 21st, 2012
4:01 pm

“Fred –

you’re so funny”

Yeah, but too bad looks ain’t everything…
++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oh hell, josef’s here. That means I have to get supper started.

LOL josef, you didn’t know that some days I use your appearance to let me know that school is over and I better get started on supper did you? Just on days I’m doing something that takes litle time. Tonight I’m making USinUK’s curried tomato soup.

Recon 0311 2533

February 21st, 2012
4:10 pm

“100% of economists say Trillion dollar deficits: bad”

jm, there’s probably one or two besides Krugman who like huge deficits.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
4:11 pm

“Towncrier: The fetus is dependent on the host, like a parasite, until born or extracted. While it is that dependent, many women view it as part of their body.”

Yikes, my friend. You should probably refrain from using the words “parasite” and “fetus” in the same breath. That goes with extraction as well. The fact is, it is NOT legal to “extract” a “dependent” organism after a certain period of time, after it has become “viable”. Since 1973, however, the age of viability has been reduced as a result of medical advances. Now does that mean the the abortions done past this time in earlier decades are now criminal? That is but one of the problems with the SCOTUS’ decision: there is no fixed standard.

Midori

February 21st, 2012
4:12 pm

to be fair, I just searched “americans blaming obama” and got 1-10 of 22,700,000 results.

then I looked at the hits:

Americans Down on the Economy, But Don’t Blame Obama: WSJ/NBC …
With Pessimism Growing On Economy, More Americans Still Blame Bush …
Americans Not Blaming Obama For AIG: Poll
Indiana Senate Candidate: Obama Deserves All Blame For Bad Economy …
Read ‘Voters blame Bush more than Obama for the economy’ from our blog The Ticket on Yahoo! News. (that’s a facebook page)
Only 30% of Americans Blame Obama For The Recession

jm

February 21st, 2012
4:12 pm

Weird. Austan Goolsbee “strongly agreed”. SHOCKER! Like the guy tho. Need more of him, less Krugman. He also threw O under the bus earlier and is now trying to make up the lost lovin feelin.

Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)

February 21st, 2012
4:12 pm

Spitzer…really…wow??? I can’t believe anyone would go there.

married guy frequents prostitutes = bad
married guy can’t get wife to accept menage-a-trois so leaves sick wife for another woman = top Presidential candidate

The values voters are a bit cornfused.

Peadawg - GA female house democrats are crazy

February 21st, 2012
4:12 pm

(ir)Rational
February 21st, 2012
4:07 pm

Same thing could be said about true liberals who love larger gov’t, regulations, etc. etc. They should be all over getting involved in your personal business like a fat kid on a cup cake.

Neither side makes sense on this issue I guess, eh?

JayWriter

February 21st, 2012
4:12 pm

The Obama Economy is the worst ever.

jm

February 21st, 2012
4:12 pm

Recon. True.

99.9%

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

February 21st, 2012
4:13 pm

Recon@4:02

You may have a point for the majority. In the last election I didn’t like Obama or McCain. I ended up voting for someone on the ballot that I knew wouldn’t win. Libertarian, Green…I don’t remember.

I know some people think I wasted my vote but I am through giving my vote to people I don’t believe in. It just encourages them, I want them to see someone voted but they didn’t get that vote.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
4:13 pm

josef

February 21st, 2012
4:09 pm

DEL

Of course there are centrists…they’re the ones getting shot in the b*tt in both cheeks,,,and they comprise, imuo, the bulk of the American population.

IMAM

I missed it, What happened?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I think we all missed it, the sheriff was on quick draw status………

Adam

February 21st, 2012
4:15 pm

Towncrier: I also consider any medical efforts to remove the fetus other than natural (such as C section), even if it is viable, as “extraction”

md

February 21st, 2012
4:15 pm

“That post of mine about Keystone jobs costing $1,400,000 was simply to illustrate the absurdity of the claims regarding cost per job when applied to the stimulus. No way is it accurate or serious. As are many of the $/job claims relating to the stimulus.”

And how exactly are we to know what those jobs actually cost if this is true:

“Now, the White House says it will no longer keep a cumulative tally of jobs created and saved by the stimulus. Instead, it will post only a count of jobs for each quarter.

And instead of counting only created and saved jobs, it will count any person who works on a project funded with stimulus money — even if that person was never in danger of losing his or her job.”

jm

February 21st, 2012
4:16 pm

“Peadawg – GA female house democrats are crazy”

Pea, what is this name change about?

Adam

February 21st, 2012
4:17 pm

Now does that mean the the abortions done past this time in earlier decades are now criminal?

And no, I believe it is somewhere in most law that you cannot prosecute someone for a law that was made after someone would have fallen under the umbrella of breaking said new law.

Brosephus™ - Jackassery is as jackassery does!!!

February 21st, 2012
4:17 pm

Let me ask you a very simple question. Are you struggling. Do you believe that the majority of Americans are stuggling to get by? Or, are you doing well?

Struggling is subjective. My bills are paid on time. I have a roof over my head. There’s gas in all my cars and groceries in my pantry. Some might consider it struggling as there’s not much cash left over once all the expenditures go out. That said, my living arrangements compared to how I grew up is like going from the projects to Sugarloaf. So, in the grand scheme of things, no, I am not struggling, not by a long shot. Am I eeking by, yeah, just like most of lower and middle America.

Do I think the majority of Americans are struggling to get by? Damn right!! When you look at the top 20% of income earned in this country and realize that 80% of Americans earn less than what they do, hell yeah, the majority of Americans are probably struggling. Look at how things are getting more and more expensive without a corresponding increase in wages.

Fred ™

February 21st, 2012
4:17 pm

Steve – USA (I support “None Of The Above”)

February 21st, 2012
4:13 pm

Recon@4:02

You may have a point for the majority. In the last election I didn’t like Obama or McCain. I ended up voting for someone on the ballot that I knew wouldn’t win. Libertarian, Green…I don’t remember.

I know some people think I wasted my vote but I am through giving my vote to people I don’t believe in. It just encourages them, I want them to see someone voted but they didn’t get that vote.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I don’tbelieve that crap either Steve. I vote libertarian a bunch. I voted for Monds in the GA Governors election. I voted Harry Brown for President until he died.

Boortz likes to pretend he’s a libertarian but he doesn’t vote that way. So obviously he’s NOT lol. It’s not throwing your vote away. If everyone who “votes for the lesser of two evils rather than throwing my vote away” voted for that third party candidate some REAL change would occur.

You keep voting your heart bro.

Peadawg - GA female house democrats are crazy

February 21st, 2012
4:18 pm

“Pea, what is this name change about?” – Some female house democrats in ga introduced a bill to ban vasectomies.

Can’t tell if it’s for real or just to be b*tches.

(ir)Rational

February 21st, 2012
4:19 pm

Pea – Well, I understand where both sides are coming from, but there is the middle ground, where people like me who truly believe in a conservative form of government abhor the idea that the government should be given the right to dictate what I do with my body (not that I’m in any danger of ever having an abortion). I just have a hard time with people who profess to want less government intrusion, yet fight hard for government intrusion in that aspect.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
4:19 pm

I’m heading out everyone. See ya!

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
4:19 pm

“And no, I believe it is somewhere in most law that you cannot prosecute someone for a law that was made after someone would have fallen under the umbrella of breaking said new law.”

You are missing my point: the definition of right and wrong should not depend on available technology.

JayWriter

February 21st, 2012
4:20 pm

Liberal Obama juicedrinkers how come you aren’t angry with the corrupt Obama (Hillary included) adminstration for using the State Department as a bank for the PLO, Hamas, Hezbullah, and the Muslim Brotherhood during these hard economic times for Americans. These same Muslim terrorists are the same ones killing our soldiers, and firing missles at Israel. Obama and Hillary have given away billions of our tax dollars to these criminals. And Obama the Muslim President just promised a billion dollars more to Egypt and another 800 million to the PLO, and Hamas thru State department for the Muslim Brotherhood.

Brosephus™ - Jackassery is as jackassery does!!!

February 21st, 2012
4:20 pm

Jay

Who got the red card???

Peadawg - GA female house democrats are crazy

February 21st, 2012
4:20 pm

“I just have a hard time with people who profess to want less government intrusion, yet fight hard for government intrusion in that aspect.” – I’ve changed a lot in the past couple of years…grown up if you will. I’m, honestly, all over the place on issues. Call me a mut if you will.

Recon 0311 2533

February 21st, 2012
4:21 pm

The poll that the Obama supporters should pay attention to but don’t is the Direction of the Country. 59′8% say we’re on the wrong track and all of the various polls are pretty much coming up with that same negative percentage. Doesn’t bode well for the current White House occupant.

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
4:21 pm

re, blaming the previous administration.

I don’t think you will hear too much of that from the next POTUS. The contenders are getting it out of the way now! (Smiley face here)
.

md

February 21st, 2012
4:21 pm

“If you’re against abortion because it is killing an innocent life,” shouldn’t you, by logical extension, be against men getting vasectomies, women getting their tubes tide, women getting hysterectomies, and men manually pleasuring themselves? If we’re going to have a law to stop one, why shouldn’t all become illegal? I mean, if you want to invite the government into your bedroom, then carry it out to it’s logical extreme.”

Logical extension?? Maybe using funky logic……….science is now saying life begins when that sperm and egg have a happy moment…..until then, they are just cells incapable of developing into a human on their own.

Recon 0311 2533

February 21st, 2012
4:21 pm

Sorry that was 59.8 percent.

JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!

February 21st, 2012
4:24 pm

(ir), regarding your 4:19…

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/407997_350751261622809_174612345903369_1069025_1097335828_n.jpg

Granny Godzilla

February 21st, 2012
4:25 pm

Jaywriter

He also gave 10 billion to the Tralfamadorians along with your GPS coordinates…

Just sayin’.

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
4:25 pm

“If you’re against abortion because it is killing an innocent life,” shouldn’t you, by logical extension, be against men getting vasectomies, women getting their tubes tide, women getting hysterectomies, and men manually pleasuring themselves? If we’re going to have a law to stop one, why shouldn’t all become illegal? I mean, if you want to invite the government into your bedroom, then carry it out to it’s logical extreme.”

Who, please tell posted that crap originally?

JayWriter

February 21st, 2012
4:25 pm

Obama blames everybody else except himself. This man hasn’t any morals. But to be far neither do any of the people in the newspaper business or politics.

Paul

February 21st, 2012
4:26 pm

Woodstock Mike

“Once again, do liberals think someone making 150K a year, living in a 300K home, driving a BMW is in the 1% or the 99%?”

I don’t think anybody who Googles “how much income to be in top 1%” believes that.

Josey Whales

February 21st, 2012
4:26 pm

How the President Reagan leave the country when he left office? Debt or no debt?

Did bush pay the bill for the two wars that he started or did he leave that blood debt for someone else?

95% of the bloggers take personal attack against President Obama, that’s ok because he will make them pay AGAIN in November

Did not hear a word from the right when the $3T(so you will understand, $3,000,000,000,000 in Taxcuts for 8 years to the rich) was given away, but we want to talk about spending. You Tricks are stupid……

Corey

February 21st, 2012
4:26 pm

Jay

February 21st, 2012
3:41 pm

Thanks Jay, but your detractors will move on to something else ridiculous to post rather than own their opinions based on emotions devoid of anything remotely resembling facts. The ones who are too young to remember Mr. Reagan are only repeating the Reagan myth. Reagan myth never states that well into his second year in office unemployment remained above 10% for ten consecutive months. Instead of owning the dynamic four running for the nomination they devolve into name calling such as libturd, obozo, whiner n chief. They sound about as silly as the ones running for highest office in the land. Example: Mr. Santorum ludicrously claims, “Contraceptives only give people an excuse to engage in sex for purposes other than what it was menat to be.”

JOE Cool-Republicans Call Him MESSIAH, I Just Call Him Mr. President

February 21st, 2012
4:26 pm

JayWriter

February 21st, 2012
4:20 pm

FALSE

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/14/republican-national-committee-republican/RNC-poll-Hamas-Gaza/

JayWriter

February 21st, 2012
4:27 pm

FACT.

md

February 21st, 2012
4:28 pm

“but there is the middle ground, where people like me who truly believe in a conservative form of government abhor the idea that the government should be given the right to dictate what I do with my body”

For the sake of coversation, and understanding the current laws, what happens if/when the definition ever gets changed that a fetus is viable much earlier than it is now. Since science is moving toward life at conception, where does your above comment come into play in reference to being in control of one’s own body? Does that new body then count?

JayWriter

February 21st, 2012
4:29 pm

Liberal Obama juicedrinkers how come you aren’t angry with the corrupt Obama (Hillary included) adminstration for using the State Department as a bank for the PLO, Hamas, Hezbullah, and the Muslim Brotherhood during these hard economic times for Americans. These same Muslim terrorists are the same ones killing our soldiers, and firing missles at Israel. Obama and Hillary have given away billions of our tax dollars to these criminals. And Obama the Muslim President just promised a billion dollars more to Egypt and another 800 million to the PLO, and Hamas thru State department for the Muslim Brotherhood.

JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!

February 21st, 2012
4:30 pm

I missed this rib tickler the other day…

http://blogs.ajc.com/mike-luckovich/2012/02/16/217-mike-luckovich-cartoon-followers/

And it turns out that the man has a national following. Rightfully so!

josef

February 21st, 2012
4:30 pm

FRED

I was following y’all’s recipe exchange…lemme know how it turns out. Not much a fan of curries, myself…

jm

February 21st, 2012
4:30 pm

“Obama blames everybody else except himself.”

That is a fact. Responsibility is not in his vocabulary.

Midori

February 21st, 2012
4:30 pm

So now Granny G is a honorary black woman?

LOL!!

Welcome to the club, Mrs. G

Brosephus™ - Jackassery is as jackassery does!!!

February 21st, 2012
4:30 pm

Paul @ 4:26

Stop bursting people’s bubbles!!!! You’re being mean.

JOE Cool-Republicans Call Him MESSIAH, I Just Call Him Mr. President

February 21st, 2012
4:30 pm

“He also gave 10 billion to the Tralfamadorians along with your GPS coordinates…”

And 1,500 boxes of Trefoils and Samos’s………..

Josey Whales

February 21st, 2012
4:31 pm

JayWriter – President Obama has no morals……………………………………………………………..No, he will never leave his wife while she was battle cancer

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
4:32 pm

““If you’re against abortion because it is killing an innocent life,” shouldn’t you, by logical extension, be against men getting vasectomies, women getting their tubes tide, women getting hysterectomies, and men manually pleasuring themselves? If we’re going to have a law to stop one, why shouldn’t all become illegal? I mean, if you want to invite the government into your bedroom, then carry it out to it’s logical extreme.”

Ummm…abortion is not synonymous with contraception. If a fetus is never conceived in the first place, you cannot take its life.

JohnnyReb

February 21st, 2012
4:32 pm

“…the government should (not) be given the right to dictate what I do with my body”

Extremely shallow. Once you accept that a fetus is a human being with the same rights as those of us already born, government telling a woman she must protect the fetus is no different than law that prohibits murder.

Paul

February 21st, 2012
4:33 pm

md

“And how exactly are we to know what those jobs actually cost if this is true:

“Now, the White House says it will no longer keep a cumulative tally of jobs created and saved by the stimulus. Instead, it will post only a count of jobs for each quarter.

And instead of counting only created and saved jobs, it will count any person who works on a project funded with stimulus money — even if that person was never in danger of losing his or her job.””

It doesn’t matter.

Dividing obligations by a job number to get a cost per job is fallacious.

Think of it in terms of a private company. They spend $30,000,000 to build a building. They hire 100 workers to get the project done.

They don’t look at it as “we built a new building for $30 million. 100 people worked on it. So what does this mean? All it means is this project cost us $300,000 per worker.”

JOE Cool-Republicans Call Him MESSIAH, I Just Call Him Mr. President

February 21st, 2012
4:33 pm

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
4:32 pm

You dont want an abortion, dont get one……………your LIBERTY to choose

paulo977

February 21st, 2012
4:35 pm

(ir)Rational : I mean, if you want to invite the government into your bedroom, then carry it out to it’s logical extreme.
_________________________________________
Absolutely!

Brosephus™ - Jackassery is as jackassery does!!!

February 21st, 2012
4:35 pm

Midori: So now Granny G is a honorary black woman?

Damn, so who’s idea was it to start giving out the honorary membership cards? Hell, I got initiated into the Liberal White man club yesterday. I made a video of the rest of my day after I found out that I was a Liberal White guy. Here’s how it went.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/10356/saturday-night-live-white-like-me

Paul

February 21st, 2012
4:35 pm

JohnnyReb

“Who, please tell posted that crap originally?”

It sounds as if it was based on Santorum’s remarks a few days ago about the dangers of having sex for pleasure instead of procreation.

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
4:36 pm

JayWriter — “Liberal Obama juicedrinkers how come you aren’t angry with the corrupt Obama (Hillary included) adminstration for using the State Department as a bank for the PLO, Hamas, Hezbullah, and the Muslim Brotherhood during these hard economic times for Americans.”

Do you do kids’ parties? One of my wife’s good friends is having a birthday party for her twins, and they can’t find a clown.

md

February 21st, 2012
4:36 pm

After 12 pages, anybody else notice that the percentages don’t add up to 100%.

josef

February 21st, 2012
4:36 pm

I would’ve thought all sides would’ve jumped on this one…

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120221/NATION/202210359/Gay-Arizona-sheriff-faces-uphill-battle?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE%7Cs

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
4:39 pm

“For the sake of coversation, and understanding the current laws, what happens if/when the definition ever gets changed that a fetus is viable much earlier than it is now.”

I’ll say it again: the definition of right and wrong should not depend on available technology. The Roe v. Wade decision is flawed (to say the least) on this point alone (not to mention at length its dependence upon a non-existent Constitutional right – the right to privacy). If the majority of Americans want non-essential abortions to be available, then have Congress pass legislation to that effect. The SCOTUS has NO Constitutional authority to make law (as opposed to interpret it).

(ir)Rational

February 21st, 2012
4:39 pm

josef – I try not to jump on gays…;)

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
4:39 pm

Brosephus — “I found out that I was a Liberal White guy.”

Here are the keys to your new Volvo and your discount cards for Starbucks and Whole Foods. And you get a government check for every month you don’t cut your hair.

(ir)Rational

February 21st, 2012
4:39 pm

BLAST! … then space, then

Paul

February 21st, 2012
4:40 pm

AmVet

“I missed this rib tickler the other day…”

The other night O’Reilly actually put up a similar editorial cartoon and used it as proof “the liberal media” is out to destroy Santorum.

Absofrakinlutely amazing.

The guy’s in media and he doesn’t even know the purpose of an editorial cartoon.

josef

February 21st, 2012
4:40 pm

BROSEPHUS

But, are you still an Uppity Elitist?

md

February 21st, 2012
4:40 pm

“It doesn’t matter.”

And I can see that in that context…….but then folks turn around and use the same data to say it saved jobs…………..hmmmm.

(ir)Rational

February 21st, 2012
4:40 pm

JHM – How do I get in on that? I will settle for a Subaru if you’re out of Volvos.

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

February 21st, 2012
4:41 pm

“Let me ask you a very simple question. Are you struggling. Do you believe that the majority of Americans are stuggling to get by? Or, are you doing well?”

I know this wasn’t directed at me but if I may opine. The feeling I get is that a lot of people are living a lifestyle based on past financial success. I know a bunch of people making less than what they did 5 to 10 years ago. They live in homes that they couldn’t buy with their present income. I just turned 50 and a bunch of my friends have basically wiped out their retirement saving to survive. People have expenses now that they didn’t even have when I started working. You didn’t have a cable bill, you didn’t have an Internet bill, you didn’t have a cell phone bill.

I am self employed so my income goes up and down throughout the years. I have been comfortable but I have had more down years than I was planning on so my retirement plans are much further away than I had hoped.

So through my eyes which is not a scientific poll, a lot of people are struggling.

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
4:41 pm

Towncrier — “I’ll say it again: the definition of right and wrong should not depend on available technology.”

The law has had to adjust at an increasing pace in order to accommodate the issues brought by technology. Surely this will continue.

Brosephus™ - Jackassery is as jackassery does!!!

February 21st, 2012
4:42 pm

josef

I saw that story. All I can say is that you lie in the bed that you make. It doesn’t matter what your orientation is.

jm

February 21st, 2012
4:42 pm

New MI poll has Romney up

Granny Godzilla

February 21st, 2012
4:43 pm

Midori

I’d be proud to be an honorary black woman….

Skipped a lot of the pages….To whom do I owe thanks for the honor?

Brosephus™ - Jackassery is as jackassery does!!!

February 21st, 2012
4:43 pm

JHM

Sweeeeeeetttttttt……….

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

February 21st, 2012
4:43 pm

“After 12 pages, anybody else notice that the percentages don’t add up to 100%”

Two of us did earlier

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
4:43 pm

(ir)Rational — “JHM – How do I get in on that? I will settle for a Subaru if you’re out of Volvos.”

You’re already a white guy, aren’t you? Wasn’t the car in your driveway?

Brosephus™ - Jackassery is as jackassery does!!!

February 21st, 2012
4:44 pm

josef

Uppity, elitist, liberal, white, and I work for the government.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
4:44 pm

“The law has had to adjust at an increasing pace in order to accommodate the issues brought by technology. Surely this will continue.”

Granted, but I am speaking of fundamental principles and not the fine details. Theft has been and always will be theft, murder murder, and so on.

josef

February 21st, 2012
4:45 pm

irRational

think it’s most don’t where to come down on this one! Unlike Clinton he admits he DID have sex with that boy and didn’t hem haw around about it…unlike Wide Stance et al, he didn’t deny it…but…but…he’s GOP…still in the race, too…be kinda interesting to see if Arizona puts “family values” ahead of shipping ‘em all back to where they come from. Wonder how big that tent is…

YOUR party SUCKS! But MINE is GRRRRRREAT! (formerly That Black Guy)

February 21st, 2012
4:45 pm

Brosephus

February 21st, 2012
3:41 pm
Pea: Um…I don’t believe Obama has raised any taxes since he’s been in office. You may want check your email from Hannity again…it’s wrong.

No conservative will ever consider tax cuts as spending, yet they add the amount of tax cuts AS spending to get to that total.

I do

Paul

February 21st, 2012
4:45 pm

Brosephus

But they keep blowing them and it’s so much fun watching them go ‘pop’!

JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!

February 21st, 2012
4:47 pm

Paul,

Billy O’Loofah is one of the biggest, most pretentious, vile and sleazy little pr*cks in the history of pretentious, vile and sleazy little pr*cks.

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
4:47 pm

Towncrier — “Granted, but I am speaking of fundamental principles and not the fine details. Theft has been and always will be theft, murder murder, and so on.”

Fair enough. How, then, do you apply this principle of right and wrong in the way of which you speak? What are the issues and concerns thereunto pertaining as you see them, please?

(ir)Rational

February 21st, 2012
4:47 pm

JHM – No, my first car was a 10 year old Explorer with 250,000 miles on it. And my sister had destroyed the interior before I got it. I guess it was because I grew up in such a strongly conservative household that they skipped us over. Damn.

Bro – That is a bad combination.

Brosephus™ - Jackassery is as jackassery does!!!

February 21st, 2012
4:48 pm

Steve

I was asked that question, but I never received any response based on my response. I can’t take that week vacation skiiing in Utah, but when I look at what I’ve done in the past 20 years plus since I graduated high school, I am nowhere near struggling. I measure my wealth far beyond material things. Even if I lost what I have now, as long as my family’s ok and taken care of, I’m good.

Tom(Independent)

February 21st, 2012
4:48 pm

Joe Hussein Mama – Jay Writer is exactly right on the money. Why are we giving this tax-payers money to those Muslim countries, let them take care of themselves. I despise giving any foreign aid when we could/should help our on American citizens with the jobs issue 1st and the economy in this country.We should place our own American Citizens(notice I said citizens) before we help any other countries. For example, I would not give Mexico not one penny until they stop Illegals on their side of the border from coming into the USA! But I honestly believe that Barrack Hussein Obama does not place American Citizens 1st as I do. By the way Joe your middle name also Hussein, any relations there ?

josef

February 21st, 2012
4:48 pm

BROSEPHUS

“Uppity, elitist, liberal, white, and I work for the government”

Welcome to the club…although I understand I’m a “closet conservative!”

(ir)Rational

February 21st, 2012
4:49 pm

josef – Let’s not talk about guy’s in the bedroom and tents.

Brosephus™ - Jackassery is as jackassery does!!!

February 21st, 2012
4:50 pm

YOUR party

That’s why you are THAT guy. You don’t find very many who apply the same principles ALL the time. That, I can appreciate.

(ir)Rational

Not if you’re an elected official.
Too bad I’m not.

md

February 21st, 2012
4:52 pm

“Um…I don’t believe Obama has raised any taxes since he’s been in office. ”

That’s but one variable……credit card rates went up as a direct cause of this Admin…..the payroll tax cut will have to be paid at some point in time with money we don’t have…….the subsidies for the ACA will add to the debt…….off the top of my head.

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

February 21st, 2012
4:52 pm

Well, don’t you just hate it when Bookman kicks somebody off of the blog and deletes the person’s post before you get a chance to read it? It’s worse than the hurly-girly show at the carnival. You check in all day just to see somebody cross the line and then it happens and you don’t even get to see it. Heck, we all want to see a good fight even if we don’t want to get into one. Bookman’s such a tease.

At least some new people showed up today. True, they ain’t exackly Norman Einsteins, but they tried real hard. I can see people like them holding a snipe bag at midnight in some deep, dark woods.

Well, it’s time to head to the warehouse to park the truck and then head for home to tune into Fox News. I hope your Fat Tuesday was pretty good, tho we never got a chance to see somebody pull her shirt up. I reckon it’s just as well. We ain’t going to see any of our female bloggers showing up at a beauty contest.

Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")

February 21st, 2012
4:53 pm

Brosephus™’

I hear you and I agree.

Midori

February 21st, 2012
4:53 pm

Mrs. G — I think it was JayWriter.

Bro – can’t pull that video up here – will have to wait until I get home

YOUR party SUCKS! But MINE is GRRRRRREAT! (formerly That Black Guy)

February 21st, 2012
4:54 pm

Brosephus™ – Jackassery is as jackassery does!!!

February 21st, 2012
3:49 pm
We should sue them for negligence…all of them..in carrying out the oath of office and wasting our money with this…garbage…

Do you not think that there are females who feel the same exact way about men telling them what they can and can not do to their bodies?

I think he was including the R’s for introducing the bill about banning abortions after 20 weeks as well as the D’s position on neutering.

He was they both are stupid. I think.

(ir)Rational

February 21st, 2012
4:54 pm

Y’all have a good evening. I’m heading home.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
4:54 pm

“Fair enough. How, then, do you apply this principle of right and wrong in the way of which you speak? What are the issues and concerns thereunto pertaining as you see them, please?”

The changing age of viability, after which an abortion becomes the taking of life. That, in my view, is not merely a refinement of the law to cover hitherto unconsidered possibilities. The very fact that what used to be an acceptable termination of organic life might now be considered the murder of a human being ought suggests there is something wrong, in this case, with tying right and wrong to available technology.

YOUR party SUCKS! But MINE is GRRRRRREAT! (formerly That Black Guy)

February 21st, 2012
4:55 pm

Midori

February 21st, 2012
3:49 pm
ok — this HAS to be said: PLEASE keep Democrat’s High Gas Prices AWAY from sharp objects!!

No! Let him loose in a room FULL of them

Brosephus™ - Jackassery is as jackassery does!!!

February 21st, 2012
4:55 pm

At least some new people showed up today. True, they ain’t exackly Norman Einsteins, but they tried real hard. I can see people like them holding a snipe bag at midnight in some deep, dark woods.

Dammit, that’s funny!!!!

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
4:56 pm

Tom(independent) — “Joe Hussein Mama – Jay Writer is exactly right on the money.”

If he doesn’t want or can’t take the clown gig, would you be interested? We need the clown to do a clean show (make balloon animals, tell kid-safe jokes, maybe some simple magic tricks) for up to an hour. And you can have all the hot dogs, burgers, cake and ice cream you can eat.

What do you charge for that? We need to know so we can compare prices.

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
4:58 pm

md “……credit card rates went up as a direct cause of this Admin…..”

Convenient excuse. Given the hit to banks’ revenue, they were going to find additional marginal revenue somewhere. The increased bank regulations just gave them an opportunity to point the finger elsewhere.

Brosephus™ - Jackassery is as jackassery does!!!

February 21st, 2012
4:58 pm

josef

Well, you do hang out so far on that left fringe that you could be coming around from the right.

————————–

Midori

It’s the old skit from SNL where Eddie Murphy spent a day as a White man. I still laugh at that one.

————————–

YOUR party @ 4:54

If that was his intent, then I’d agree. Both are a waste of taxpayer dollars.

Acer706

February 21st, 2012
5:01 pm

Was the benefit worth the cost? No one doubts that it benefited… How could $270BILLION not benefit someone or thing?

md

February 21st, 2012
5:02 pm

“Convenient excuse. Given the hit to banks’ revenue, they were going to find additional marginal revenue somewhere. The increased bank regulations just gave them an opportunity to point the finger elsewhere.”

Don’t agree……..yes, they took a hit……but then took another hit by being forced to not cover the costs of their deadbeats……

Not to worry, we have it covered……we being anybody with credit cards that actually pay their bills.

josef

February 21st, 2012
5:03 pm

BROSEPHUS

That must be it. Shoot, if Bush Lite Obama is a radical, leftist Marxist…

Brosephus™ - Jackassery is as jackassery does!!!

February 21st, 2012
5:07 pm

josef

That’s the only logical explanation I can come up with. You know that if you take off in a plane going to the left, you’ll eventually come around from the right if you go around the world. As evident here, there are more than a few who are so extreme to one side that they’re probably one step away from coming around from the other side.

jm

February 21st, 2012
5:16 pm

“Um…I don’t believe Obama has raised any taxes since he’s been in office. ”

You’d be wrong sir. Pea is so often wrong.

Tom(Independent)

February 21st, 2012
5:17 pm

As a retired Vietnam Vet, I say Joe Hussein Mama. you are a disgrace to the USA! Are you a real citizen or an occu-tard type. I’m no clown but I bet I know who is! You are just the type scum-bucket I wouldn’t mind running across some day!

jm

February 21st, 2012
5:19 pm

for the forgetful: your stocks and bonds will now be paying medicare tax

“In this posting I will examine one of the more controversial provisions of the health care reform package, namely, the 3.8% surtax on unearned income which is to be used to help fund Medicare benefits in the future. ”

http://taxation.lawyers.com/blogs/archives/5798-New-3.8-Medicare-Surtax-on-Unearned-Income.html

md

February 21st, 2012
5:19 pm

“You know that if you take off in a plane going to the left, you’ll eventually come around from the right if you go around the world.”

Now that would depend on whether one is facing frontward or backward when that plane comes back around.

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
5:19 pm

Towncrier — “The changing age of viability, after which an abortion becomes the taking of life. That, in my view, is not merely a refinement of the law to cover hitherto unconsidered possibilities. The very fact that what used to be an acceptable termination of organic life might now be considered the murder of a human being ought suggests there is something wrong, in this case, with tying right and wrong to available technology.”

My personal view has always been that life does not commence until birth; that legally, a fetus should not be considered “alive” until it is a separate individual, whole and entire. That’s not to impose a moral imperative on anyone; a woman or couple are free, of course, to consider their fetus a person and proceed accordingly from whatever point they wish in its development. However, IMO, the fetus shouldn’t legally be a ‘person’ until after it’s born. That eliminates the technological issue.

What are your thoughts on that, please?

Anti-choice ranters, spare me your vitriol and bible scripture. You’ll get no traction with them and I won’t bother to engage you if you post it.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
5:20 pm

md: science is now saying life begins when that sperm and egg have a happy moment

Science says no such thing. If you’re right about this, then prove it. Otherwise stop peddling opinion as science.

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
5:21 pm

Tom(Independent) — “As a retired Vietnam Vet, I say Joe Hussein Mama. you are a disgrace to the USA!”

And as a disabled Army Vet, I say take a flying leap, pal.

And watch it with the real-life suggestions of aggression on other posters. That gets you kicked off this board real quick.

TaxPayer

February 21st, 2012
5:21 pm

The economy is getting better all the time, Republicans.

Don’t worry, be happy. – Thomas Jefferson’s inner Reggae voice

Paul

February 21st, 2012
5:22 pm

Time for some good news.

Supreme Court declines to hear Arlington case on accessible sidewalks

In what could be a major financial blow to the nation’s cities, the U.S. Supreme Court today declined to hear an appeal by the city of Arlington to block a lawsuit by a quadriplegic suing over the lack of accessible sidewalks and curb cuts.

Richard Frame, a quadriplegic for 12 years, sued the city of Arlington alleging that when it built or altered sidewalks and curbs in some areas, it did not make them accessible, violating Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Other plaintiffs from Arlington joined the suit, alleging problems such as missing or badly sloped curb ramps; impassable, noncontiguous, broken or nonexistent sidewalks; and inadequate handicapped parking that made it difficult for them to go about their everyday lives.

“The court’s decision was right for the city, for Texas and for the country,” said David Ferleger, the attorney from Philadelphia who was representing Frame before the court. “Keeping people with disabilities off sidewalks is immoral, bad public policy and harmful to the national economy…

“A federal district court dismissed the case, saying Frame had waited too long after the work had been completed to sue, and initially a panel of judges at the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans agreed. But a rehearing of the case by the full court, vacated that decision.

The majority opinion by the 5th Circuit stated that cities are to use “any and all means” to make sidewalks accessible. Though the court wrote that a city’s obligation is not “boundless” and that a city should not be forced to take on undue financial burden, it can “avoid liability whenever it chooses simply by building sidewalks right the first time or by fixing its original unlawful construction.”

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/02/21/3751591/us-supreme-court-declines-to-hear.html

Adam

February 21st, 2012
5:22 pm

Santorum is against doing things in the sexual realm that do not produce or potentially produce children. In that context, vasectomies, hysterectomies, condoms, and contraception should all be illegal.

jm

February 21st, 2012
5:22 pm

md 5:19 – since planes fly slower than the earth rotates, it would be more accurate to say that if you start going left, the earth will eventually arrive in front of you after you’ve flown about 1/2 an earth rotation (depending on your flight speed)

Adam

February 21st, 2012
5:23 pm

Toncirer: Privacy is part of liberty. You cannot have liberty without some amount of privacy. You also cannot have many of the constitutional protections without privacy.

Paul

February 21st, 2012
5:25 pm

Tom

“As a retired Vietnam Vet, I say Joe Hussein Mama. you are a disgrace to the USA! ”

I bet you say the same thing about General Merrill McPeak, former Chief of Staff of the USAF, who worked for Pres Obama’s election and opposed Sen John McCain.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
5:25 pm

Towncrier: Laws against theft and murder are designed to help protect the individual from things that he or she would not want done to them. Has nothing to do with morals.

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
5:26 pm

Adam — “Santorum is against doing things in the sexual realm that do not produce or potentially produce children.”

Love to see him show us all where that’s a function or power of government granted to lawmakers in the Constitution by We The People.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
5:29 pm

JHM: uh…. CHRISTIAN NATION!!!!

Orange12

February 21st, 2012
5:31 pm

Yeah, it was all shovel ready.

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
5:32 pm

Adam — “JHM: uh…. CHRISTIAN NATION!!!!”

Oh, in that case, it should be even *easier* for him to show it to us in the Constitution.

GT

February 21st, 2012
5:34 pm

If the numbers are 9 or 90% the point of this exercise is to point out that no matter the measuring stick the patient is improving. If the numbers are higher coming out the same numbers going into this recession during the Bush administration must have been higher than reported too. O has never celebrated this like your boy Bush dancing around on an aircraft carrier, celebrating a war far from won and which thousands of Americans lives would be lost after his declaration of victory. Obama’s job is to fix the problem which he is doing with a mature manner, the same manner he displayed killing bin laden. This is not a reality show for votes we have here, it is real life and we need an adult driving the car, we have that in Obama.

Orange12

February 21st, 2012
5:37 pm

The stimulus was borrowed money.

Brosephus™ - Jackassery is as jackassery does!!!

February 21st, 2012
5:37 pm

md

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
5:40 pm

“My personal view has always been that life does not commence until birth; that legally, a fetus should not be considered “alive” until it is a separate individual, whole and entire. That’s not to impose a moral imperative on anyone; a woman or couple are free, of course, to consider their fetus a person and proceed accordingly from whatever point they wish in its development. However, IMO, the fetus shouldn’t legally be a ‘person’ until after it’s born. That eliminates the technological issue.

What are your thoughts on that, please?”

I agree that it is best to have a clear line of demarcation. Mine would go to the point of conception. Just from the physical evidence itself, it is very hard for me to conclude that a seven or eight month fetus that is clearly viable is not a person. But I also not an atheist so I believe life is not merely biological. Of course, if the truth be told, I think a good many of the abortions now performed (if not the vast majority of them) are driven by the desire to avert unwanted consequences of casual, unprotected sex. So abortion is hardly, in my view, a good or proper solution to that problem. Contraception is the best solution. It’s not foolproof but goes a very long way to eliminating the need for abortions. I don’t, in other words, think we should make laws that enable people to shirk personal responsibility. I do believe, however, that an aborted child is better than an unwanted one. What a mess we human make of things!

md

February 21st, 2012
5:41 pm

“Science says no such thing. If you’re right about this, then prove it. Otherwise stop peddling opinion as science.”

Already posted those sources Adam…..if you don’t believe it, go back and find it or google it yourself. There are plenty of respected people in the field that now believe conception is the “beginning” of human life. Stage one if you prefer.

md

February 21st, 2012
5:41 pm

jm,

The point was left and right reverse if one turns around.

Paul

February 21st, 2012
5:42 pm

Orange12

The Defense budget is borrowed money.

Agriculture subsidies are borrowed money.

Big Oil subsidies are borrowed money.

Building and repairing roads is borrowed money.

Food inspections is borrowed money.

Paul

February 21st, 2012
5:44 pm

“There are plenty of respected people in the field that now believe conception is the “beginning” of human life. Stage one if you prefer.”

Yeah, Adam, and plenty of people go against God’s will with prenatal care and neonatal intensive care units and all that manmade intervention that interferes with what God wants to have happen to that life.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
5:44 pm

md: There are plenty of respected people in the field that now believe conception is the “beginning” of human life.

That has nothing to do with science proving life begins at conception. And I have seen your so called sources, and they do not make your point. “Life” is always going to be an opinion when it comes to where it begins. It’s a metaphysical, not a scientific, concept.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
5:45 pm

“Towncrier: Laws against theft and murder are designed to help protect the individual from things that he or she would not want done to them. Has nothing to do with morals.”

Sorry…we’ll have to agree to disagree on that. To say that laws have “nothing to do with morals” implies there is no real correlation between the two and, in that, I think you would find yourself in the distinct minority.

Tom Middleton

February 21st, 2012
5:45 pm

And there it is, Jay. Nothing this administration has done or will do in the coming year will be called good by those trying to replace him, but it has done plenty as most of us know.

And if it wasn’t for the fact that all they want to do once in office is return to the principles they followed under George W. Bush, that crashed our economy and threw us into a record deficit and debt, it might be acceptable on some level.

But it isn’t, and if there’s one reason why our beloved America can’t get on a stable path to the future for all time to come, it’s because we keep electing the opposition, without regard to what it represents in real-world terms or even what it’s chances are of success.

But one thing is certain. If we do that this time – this election – we will have hell to pay. For if we put back into power those who put us into mess in the first place, we will not only get more and more of it (for it’s all that they know), but we will get it for a very long time to come.

And given the Republican Party’s propensity for authoritarian control once in power, by-passing our democracy every single chance it gets, “We The People” will be the big-time losers and regret it like we have never regretted anything before!

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
5:45 pm

Towncrier — “Contraception is the best solution. It’s not foolproof but goes a very long way to eliminating the need for abortions.”

Indeed. I think it’s probably the single *best* means by which to reduce the demand/need for abortions, and as such, I’m baffled by why some Americans oppose it so vehemently.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
5:49 pm

“Toncirer: Privacy is part of liberty. You cannot have liberty without some amount of privacy. You also cannot have many of the constitutional protections without privacy.”

Fine. Then let us pass a constitutional amendment to guarantee privacy. The SCOTUS, however, has no constitutional authority to establish such a right. Or do you think that it should just make up the laws as it goes along?

Adam

February 21st, 2012
5:49 pm

Towncrier: Whether or not I am in the minority in my viewpoint does not say whether or not I am right. I am not saying ALL laws have nothing to do with morality, but specifically those two – which are regularly attributed falsely to morality because they have been laws longer than recorded history so people have some sort of attachment to making them mystical moral laws. In fact, they came about out of the human genetic trait of tribe mentality. Within a society, the tribe takes care of its own and protects against others. Theft and murder are actions taken usually be groups outside of the tribe, but can also happen within the tribe and it was decided that they should be punished if they occurred to help prevent it from happening again so all could retain personal property and life. Later, the tribe became as large (for some people) as the entire human race, or perhaps just the country you live in.

Now, if you don’t believe all that, fine. But there’s plenty of actual evidence to back up my position.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
5:50 pm

Towncrier: The SCOTUS didn’t make up privacy, they took it as part of existing liberties.

md

February 21st, 2012
5:50 pm

“Life” is always going to be an opinion when it comes to where it begins. It’s a metaphysical, not a scientific, concept.”

So says Adam’s opinion………

Sorry Adam, I’ll tend to lean toward actual folks studying medicine and genetics vs your opinion….thanks though.

Tom(Independent)

February 21st, 2012
5:51 pm

Joe Hussein – Take it any way you like bub, every thing you post is always disguisting, how anyone like you and your views could have ever been in the military is beyond me. Using the middle name Hussein tells me alot about you!! Your hero Barrack(former well-known Community Organizer) also know as the Food Stamp President, is tearing this country down! Of course He does not believe in what former President John Kennedy(Democrat) famous words “Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country”!! Now that is a man I can admire not some draft dodger who used college as his escape clause!!

Adam

February 21st, 2012
5:51 pm

Also, Towncrier, just because something isn’t in the constitution does NOT mean that it’s not a right. That’s in the 9th Amendment.

Orange12

February 21st, 2012
5:52 pm

Paul @ 5:42
Right Paul! So how can anyone say the syimulus worked. It did not get the desired effect of producing a number of long term employment for out of work people. The ones who did get hired were getting paid a fair salary but the number hired equaled out to over a million dollars per person in the long run. That is what it cost to hire one individual. Is that cost effective? The only thing the stimulus did was make our children’s, Children’s children head over heels in debt before they are even born. Think about that.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
5:52 pm

“Indeed. I think it’s probably the single *best* means by which to reduce the demand/need for abortions, and as such, I’m baffled by why some Americans oppose it so vehemently.”

It is the folly inherent in our species, seen most prominently in teenagers but also in adults who don’t mature beyond the teenage years. The folly that says, “yeah, I know I should do such and such, but I don’t want to….”

md

February 21st, 2012
5:52 pm

“Yeah, Adam, and plenty of people go against God’s will with prenatal care and neonatal intensive care units and all that manmade intervention that interferes with what God wants to have happen to that life.”

And what does that have to do with anything that I posted??

Orange12

February 21st, 2012
5:52 pm

Paul @ 5:42
Right Paul! So how can anyone say the syimulus worked. It did not get the desired effect of producing a number of long term employment for out of work people. The ones who did get hired were getting paid a fair salary but the number hired equaled out to over a million dollars per person in the long run. That is what it cost to hire one individual. Is that cost effective? The only thing the stimulus did was make our children’s, Children’s children head over heels in debt before they are even born. Think about that.

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
5:52 pm

Towncrier — “Fine. Then let us pass a constitutional amendment to guarantee privacy.”

Are you suggesting there’s some sort of qualitative difference between enumerated and unenumerated rights?

“The SCOTUS, however, has no constitutional authority to establish such a right.”

Some legal scholars claims that’s exactly where the right to privacy came from — the SCOTUS creating it out of thin air.

“Or do you think that it should just make up the laws as it goes along?”

The Constitution is pretty clear on the point that the enumerated rights are not an exhaustive list of rights possessed by We The People.

Martin Williams

February 21st, 2012
5:54 pm

Some people need to look up the meaning of the word socialism in terms of running a nation. Some are calling the president a socialist and wants to push this country to be like Europe per Mitt Romney. Well folks, if you don’t know, the United States of America is the biggest socialist nation on planet earth and will give you two key reasons. First, we spend the biggest on defense and we have something call social security. If that is not enough, we also have medicare/medicaid. You need more reasons why we are the biggest socialist nation, the best Congress money can BUY.

Orange12

February 21st, 2012
5:54 pm

Sorry for the double post.

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
5:55 pm

Tom(Independent) — “Joe Hussein – Take it any way you like bub, every thing you post is always disguisting”

Then don’t read what I post if it hurts your tender feefees so much, Pinky.

“how anyone like you and your views could have ever been in the military is beyond me.”

I got in the usual way. I volunteered.

“Using the middle name Hussein tells me alot about you!! Your hero Barrack(former well-known Community Organizer) also know as the Food Stamp President, is tearing this country down! Of course He does not believe in what former President John Kennedy(Democrat) famous words “Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country”!! Now that is a man I can admire not some draft dodger who used college as his escape clause!!”

Did you have anything substantive to add, Tom, or are you just going to rant and rave some more?

md

February 21st, 2012
5:56 pm

Here Adam, take it up with him……you can compare your experiments with his:

“Dr. Jerome LeJeune, professor of genetics at the University of Descartes in Paris, was the discoverer of the chromosome pattern of Down syndrome. Dr. LeJeune testified to the Judiciary Subcommittee, “after fertilization has taken place a new human being has come into being.” He stated that this “is no longer a matter of taste or opinion,” and “not a metaphysical contention, it is plain experimental evidence.” He added, “Each individual has a very neat beginning, at conception.””

Adam

February 21st, 2012
5:56 pm

md: So says Adam’s opinion………

Sorry Adam, I’ll tend to lean toward actual folks studying medicine and genetics vs your opinion….thanks though.

And it is your opinion, and the OPINION of these scientists that life begins at conception. But none of it is scientific proof or even so much as a scientific theory. I’ll tend to lean towards people who actually make testable hypotheses and peer reviewed studies, rather than opinion. Thanks though.

Tom(Independent)

February 21st, 2012
5:57 pm

Paul@5:25 – I do not support or like Sen McCain views. Recently he stated we need to continue to support financially Egypt’s military and govt to a tune of several billion dollars. Our money needs to stay home and concentrate on jobs and making the economy better for our citizens..

Adam

February 21st, 2012
5:58 pm

Oh gee that settles it then. One guy who simply states “life” is testable

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
5:58 pm

“Are you suggesting there’s some sort of qualitative difference between enumerated and unenumerated rights?”

Yes. The former are defined and known and the latter are not. Can you imagine buying a house to which the owner reserved “unenumerated rights”?

“Some legal scholars claims that’s exactly where the right to privacy came from — the SCOTUS creating it out of thin air.”

Not out of thin air per se, but it seems to me much more reliant on precedent than the Constitution.

“The Constitution is pretty clear on the point that the enumerated rights are not an exhaustive list of rights possessed by We The People.”

Yes..but I don’t think that means we can thereby make up whatever rights we want to and claim they are covered by the Constitution. In my view, that passage signals that more enumerated rights may and should be added to the Constitution as the Congress (not the SCOTUS) decides.

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
6:00 pm

md — “Here Adam, take it up with him……you can compare your experiments with his:”

I’m pretty sure that one physician doesn’t determine policy for all physicians.

Surprised I have to tell you that, md.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
6:02 pm

“I’ll tend to lean towards people who actually make testable hypotheses and peer reviewed studies, rather than opinion.”

Well, that unfortunately applies to so little of what people – even you – espouse as knowledge. I mean, how much of what you “know” has been independently and scientifically validated? I think
the reality is that all of us are more or less reliant upon our beliefs, however formulated.

josef

February 21st, 2012
6:03 pm

Well, I see the constitutional lawyers are all up in here again,,,Where’s Obama when you need him?

BROSEPHUS
Are you still in the building?

GT

February 21st, 2012
6:04 pm

“Borrow money” as if the public has not made a false impression to the world of its wealth in the last decades with “borrowed money”. I love these conservatives who drape themselves with Rolex watches and fancy cars and houses all bought with credit which allowed the seller to make false profits on easy credit and then to raise their voices against borrowed money for the betterment of the country. This selfish action of this group is what caused the recession we suffer today, the lying to one’s self and trying to keep up with the Jones on credit cards and 100% no doc loans. If that hadn’t contributed to a majority of our pain, we wouldn’t be having this discussion today. You set us up like an entrapment, then have all the answers like a third party witness with no dog in the hunt. The generation before us in the 50s had money, but would have been ashame to display it like this crowd. Big hat and no cattle was called pretty quick in those days, now days they even run for public office.

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
6:05 pm

Towncrier — “Yes. The former are defined and known and the latter are not. Can you imagine buying a house to which the owner reserved “unenumerated rights”?

Specious example. Any supposed unenumerated rights would be subject to the contract of sale. However, based on my personal experience with *contract* law, if someone can get you to *agree* to give up a right in writing, you may actually have stripped yourself of a legal protection.

“Not out of thin air per se, but it seems to me much more reliant on precedent than the Constitution.”

There was no precedent involved in the finding of a right to privacy in the Constitution IIRC.

“Yes..but I don’t think that means we can thereby make up whatever rights we want to and claim they are covered by the Constitution. In my view, that passage signals that more enumerated rights may and should be added to the Constitution as the Congress (not the SCOTUS) decides.”

I disagree. I think that Congress has to demonstrate that any exertion of power over a previously unasserted individual right is necessary and proper for good governance, and that such exertion is only as narrowly exercised as is necessary for the public good. IOW, I think the burden’s on *Congress,* not on the people.

Paul

February 21st, 2012
6:06 pm

Orange12

“Right Paul! So how can anyone say the syimulus worked. ”

What did your original statement that the stimulus was borrowed money have to do with whether or not it worked?

Jay’s link takes you right to some of the nation’s top economists. If you click on their names it’ll take you to page wherein you can write them and ask them.

But they’ll probably tell you to enroll in Econ 101.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
6:08 pm

Towncrier: The real question becomes whether you take whatever doubt remains and go towards a faith with leaders that have all the answers, or if you err on the side of caution. Whether you accept a doctrine of CONTROL and PUNISHMENT, or one of LIBERTY instead.

Paul

February 21st, 2012
6:10 pm

md

I just used your “There are plenty of respected people in the field that now believe conception is the “beginning” of human life. Stage one if you prefer.” as a springboard for those who support no contraceptives for women or who make the argument abortion is interfering with God’s will in seeing a life come to birth.

It gets pretty dicey to be consistent when one starts basing medical treatments and personal choice on what one sees as a religious argument or one’s opinion.

Paul

February 21st, 2012
6:14 pm

Tom

“Paul@5:25 – I do not support or like Sen McCain views. ”

That’s irrelevant.

I was taking issue with what I saw as an attack on Joe Hussein Mama because of his political views, made more egregious with your citing some military service to give your attack weight.

So I pointed out a gentleman with infinitely more military accomplishment than you (General McPeak) to point out just because someone served in the military does not make them an automatic conservative.

Orange12

February 21st, 2012
6:18 pm

Paul @ 6:06

If it wasn’t worth it, it didn’t work!

Common Sense 101

Paul

February 21st, 2012
6:19 pm

Orange12

Welcome to the blog.

You’ll come across some apt sayings here.

Like “when you’re in a hole, stop digging.”

Tom(Independent)

February 21st, 2012
6:20 pm

Love them “Husseins”!!! Really good for the USA, that said, think I’ll go throw up now!!

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
6:20 pm

Paul — “So I pointed out a gentleman with infinitely more military accomplishment than you (General McPeak) to point out just because someone served in the military does not make them an automatic conservative.”

I can assure Tom that there are *plenty* of men and women who wear or have worn our country’s uniform who aren’t conservatives. There are also more than a few atheists, too.

Tom(Independent)

February 21st, 2012
6:23 pm

Paul and Joe Hussein – Twins separated at birth, last word of day from a real Independent!!! We will decide the election, take my word for it. 35% Democrats, 25% GOP, and 40% Independents!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Orange12

February 21st, 2012
6:25 pm

Paul @ 6:19

I made my point.

Soothsayer

February 21st, 2012
6:28 pm

Man tried to run over wife, police say (AJC)

A man is accused of trying to run over his wife during an argument.

[He] tried to run over his wife in the driveway of the couple’s home and push her head through a window.

Gosh, I hope he didn’t use a beer truck!

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
6:29 pm

Tom — “We will decide the election, take my word for it.”

Given your behavior in here this afternoon, I don’t think I’d ‘take your word for it’ if you claimed the sun was going to come up tomorrow.

Paul

February 21st, 2012
6:30 pm

Orange12

Let me know if you want a flashlight -

Paul

February 21st, 2012
6:32 pm

Sooth

Not to worry. I don’t think even a Ford F-450 could budge her!

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
6:33 pm

“Also, Towncrier, just because something isn’t in the constitution does NOT mean that it’s not a right. That’s in the 9th Amendment.”

That single sentence does not, in my and many people’s view, say enough of anything to give the SCOTUS authority to add any rights it wants. The best way to figure out what the true intention of what the framers of the Constitution intended (and not what we may want it to mean) is to look at the their writings. The Bill of Rights was, I as understand it, meant to constrain governmental powers. And it was feared that such a list of rights would limit the extent of “retained by the people”. Well, the rights of the people with respect to abortion has changed markedly since the foundation of our country. Initially, abortion in the US seems to have been allowed before the fetus moved in the womb. Then there was a long movement to outlaw it. In some European countries, abortion was illegal except for medical necessities. In others words, we can’t really say what the rights of the people were in this regard because they were defined by law (governmental power). So the SCOTUS invents a new enumerated right to cover that. But it doesn’t have the authority to do this. That’s the problem. Let’s do it legislatively, please.

Soothsayer

February 21st, 2012
6:33 pm

Democratic women seek a state ban on vasectomies for men (AJC)

“Thousands of children are deprived of birth in this state every year because of the lack of state regulation over vasectomies,” said Rep. Yasmin Neal, author of the bill. “It is patently unfair that men can avoid unwanted fatherhood by presuming that their judgment over such matters is more valid than the judgment of the General Assembly, while women’s ability to decide is constantly up for debate throughout the United States.”

House Minority Leader Stacey Abrams added, “The Republican attack on women’s reproductive rights is unconscionable. What is more deplorable is the hypocrisy of HB 954’s author. If we follow his logic, we believe it is the obligation of this General Assembly to assert an equally invasive state interest in the reproductive habits of men and substitute the will of the government over the will of adult men.”

Turnabout is fair play!

Joe Hussein Mama

February 21st, 2012
6:36 pm

Towncrier — “The best way to figure out what the true intention of what the framers of the Constitution intended (and not what we may want it to mean) is to look at the their writings.”

Are you suggesting that without some sort of imprimatur in writing from one or more Founders, no right can be said to exist? Come now; you must be joking.

That said, I wish I could participate longer in this discussion this evening, but my wife and a long list of errands are calling me. Everyone be well and drive safely; I’m out.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
6:37 pm

“If we only have those rights that are expressly enumerated in the Constitution, then the whole concept of natural rights and God-given rights becomes moot. We have only those rights that are granted us by government and by other men.

Is that correct, Crier?

The 9th Amendment was drafted to ensure that the enumeration of some rights did not signal that these were the only rights people had. I agree with that. But it is a stretch to turn this amendment into a license to make up whatever rights you want to. The enumerated were meant to constrain the imposition of governmental power. Rights have been added over time. There is no reason a right to privacy could not also be added. My argument is that the SCOTUS is not the branch to do that. Are you going to argue otherwise?

Erwin's cat

February 21st, 2012
6:44 pm

“…But none of it is scientific proof or even so much as a scientific theory. I’ll tend to lean towards people who actually make testable hypotheses and peer reviewed studies, rather than opinion. Thanks though. ”

hey…that’s what I said about man-made GCC

Soothsayer

February 21st, 2012
6:46 pm

Can you believe Romney actually strapped a dripping wet dog on top of an automobile on the interstate? I can’t!

Vast Right Wing Conspiracy

February 21st, 2012
6:48 pm

Jay, you kind of remind me of the Kevin Bacon character in “Animal House” shouting “All is well! All is well!” near the end of the movie. I can get a battalion of PhDs to swear up and down that the moon is made of green cheese if I pay them enough money, and they believe enough in the “cause” – for example, global warming. Keynes was disproved a long time ago.
Keep pushing that stone up the hill, Jay.

kayaker 71

February 21st, 2012
6:48 pm

Fascinating narrative posted about the upcoming PBS series regarding Slick Willy. All of the narrative is posted on the PBS website and the documentary is broken down in to the campaign years pre 1992 up to his impeachment years following Lewinsky. His handlers, his wife, his campaign staff including Dick Morris….. most interesting is the conversation with a woman staffer making the decisions regarding his even running with the history of all of the infidelities that he had. Highway patrolmen, when he was governor of Arkansas, stated that he sometimes had as many as 25 women a day wanted to see him in his office for one reason or another, mostly another. It is amazing that PBS, with it’s liberal bent, would even go here. But the champion of the Democratic Party, that stalwart liberal that we can all admire, that ex-president that demands and gets up to and over 80K/speech on the circuit….. and then liberals demean and vilify Newt for being married three times. What a bunch of friggin’ hypocrites.

F. Sinkwich

February 21st, 2012
6:50 pm

Hey, Jay, O’bozo called the Constitution a “negative document.”

That statement pretty much encapsulates lib ilk orthodoxy — the Constitution should enumerate what government MUST provide the populace, not limit government’s scope.

O’bozo has only one tool — the government hammer. Every problem in lib ilk world is a nail.

Paul

February 21st, 2012
6:52 pm

Soothsayer

I sure hope that story dies. But it likely won’t. There’s all sorts of indignation out there from people who don’t remember life with only station wagons. Besides which, drive around here. You’ll see dogs with their heads hanging out windows and in the back of pickup trucks.

Fainting couches are gonna get another workout!

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
6:53 pm

“Are you suggesting that without some sort of imprimatur in writing from one or more Founders, no right can be said to exist? Come now; you must be joking.”

No. I am saying the 9th Amendment itself (as all of the amendments) can be best and most properly interpreted with respect to the Founders writings (and not like some current justices think, in relation to European constitutions). The historical context is the power of government versus the rights of people. They knew that enumerated certain rights would ensure them against the encroachment of governmental power. The 9th Amendment does not say enough to indicate the means by which the unenumerated rights of people are to be preserved. My contention is that the SCOTUS has presumed to know as much and taken to itself the authority to enumerate new rights, where I believe (as originally) that is the role of the Congress alone. The fact is, the SCOTUS is not an elected body and, if allowed to its designs, is an oligarchy. That is NOT democracy. If the majority of Americans want a right to abortion (or any other right), then let them get Congress to add it as a right to ensure government cannot abridge it.

Soothsayer

February 21st, 2012
6:54 pm

Paul, thanks for looking!

Paul

February 21st, 2012
6:55 pm

Vast Right Wing

So you think the professors from MIT, Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc listed here

http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-economic-experts-panel/poll-results?SurveyID=SV_cw5O9LNJL1oz4Xi

are dishonest and were bought and that explains everything?

O-kaaaayyyyyyyy………

Paul

February 21st, 2012
6:56 pm

Soothsayer

I’d never pass on one of your links -

F. Sinkwich

February 21st, 2012
7:02 pm

Filled up the family truckster today for more than a Benjamin.

At least O’bozo is happy about that.

Eco-weenies too!

JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!

February 21st, 2012
7:03 pm

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/417438_350435241654411_174612345903369_1068115_2034142194_n.jpg

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
7:03 pm

“The Constitution had already provided a means by which it could be amended to “add rights,” as you put it. So if the Ninth Amendment merely meant that we could “add rights” later through Congress, as you claim, it was a totally redundant exercise.”

Sorry. This amendment, like so much that came about at the founding of our country (including the retention of slavery), was the expression of a compromise. To me it is a disclaimer of sorts, a way of alleviating the concerns of certain members of the convention. Nothing more. It is a single sentence, for Pete’s sake. If you are suggesting that the framers envisioned what now, for instance, goes by name of “free speech” when they drafted that right, you are gravely mistaken. You are making a disclaimer into a mountain.

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
7:05 pm

I agree with TownCrier’s 6:37 interpretation of the ninth amendment.

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
7:08 pm

Ultimately the ninth amendment is the right to be left alone, plainly violated by ObamaCare’s mandate.

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
7:09 pm

We put similar language into most contracts, “including, but not limited to…”

ragnar danneskjold

February 21st, 2012
7:09 pm

On a happy note:

Brown Surges in Massachusetts
In a new survey, Republican Sen. Scott Brown holds a decisive lead over Democrat Elizabeth Warren in the race for U.S. Senate in Massachusetts.

Republican Sen. Scott Brown holds a decisive lead over Democrat Elizabeth Warren in the race for U.S. Senate in Massachusetts. According to a new Suffolk University/7NEWS (WHDH-Boston) survey, the freshman senator garners 49% of the vote — nine points ahead of his main Democratic rival. It’s the first time a poll put Mr. Brown in the lead since last fall. Suffolk University was also the first to show Mr. Brown ahead in 2010 when he upset state Attorney General Martha Coakley.

Paul

February 21st, 2012
7:14 pm

Sinkwich

Ford has some new torquey engines, V6s, that get respectable mileage in town and on the highway.

F. Sinkwich

February 21st, 2012
7:16 pm

I guess even Mass. know a marxist obamabot when they see one, Rag.

F. Sinkwich

February 21st, 2012
7:19 pm

“Ford has some new torquey engines, V6s, that get respectable mileage in town and on the highway.”

Ford doesn’t make Suburbans.

By the way, I will never buy another car from GM or Mopar until they pay me back.

bman

February 21st, 2012
7:20 pm

There are no “experts” on the economy.

md

February 21st, 2012
7:22 pm

“Oh gee that settles it then. One guy who simply states “life” is testable”

You guys must of missed the part about ‘plain experimental evidence”……which suggests that the guy that discovered the Down syndrome chromosome pattern more than likely has done the actual experiments…….I’ll see what I can find to quench your thirst for more evidence to put up against your opinions, but I’m guessing the guy wouldn’t put himself on the world stage if he hadn’t done what he said he did……..

Retired Vet

February 21st, 2012
7:50 pm

@Tom(Independent)

February 21st, 2012
5:51 pm

Dude, if you had actually served in the military instead of being an arm chair soilder you would actually feel like an ass posting such puke. The U.S. military is a reflection of the nation as a whole. Different ethnic groups, different religions to include gasp, people who prcatice the Islamic faith. Gays, bi’s, straights, ambiguous, atheists, urban, suburban, rural, ghetto, Scarsdale, trailer trash, liberal, conservative, apolitical, independent. Reality check, the military is made up of us. I ‘m waiting for you to tell us you believe in the tooth fairy.

Ninja

February 21st, 2012
8:11 pm

Enter your comments here

Ninja

February 21st, 2012
8:12 pm

Idiocy reigns supreme. Now the entertaining times begin.

Tom(Independent)

February 21st, 2012
8:43 pm

Retired Vet – Yes I really served but it was way back in the 60’s, Vietnam era. I quote Pres Kennedy(Democrat) and I also supported Pres Reagan(Repub) because those men are the kind of leaders men follow, not Community Organizers who dodged the military by attending some college. To me the party is not the issue, it’s the men who say it(either party). Yes I hate it when my tax -money goes to foreign aid, welfare, illegals and other wasteful programs. Get the economy going, create jobs for American CITIZENS(yes I said CITIZENS). If people refuse to work,quite the welfare payments and let them solve their own problems. The govt does not owe you a living! I guess I learned alot about fine citizens today, having spoken with the three amigos(Joe Hussein, Paul and Retired Vet).

Adam

February 21st, 2012
9:15 pm

Erwin: hey…that’s what I said about man-made GCC

Except that Global Climate Change has a lot of peer reviewed studies, none of which has been disproven, and it has been elevated tot he level of a theory. So after that much scrutiny, even by armchair scientists, even NASA has come out with scientific proof, essentially, that global warming is real and that humans are a MAJOR cause of it. Check out the report if you’re going to insist on the rabbit hole of asking for numbers.

Adam

February 21st, 2012
9:17 pm

Towncrier: No, it is not simply a compromise to make sure that people are not denied rights simply because they were not enumerated. That’s just silly.

JKL2

February 21st, 2012
11:11 pm

Where’s the $10T stimulus package then? Deficits don’t matter Demwits. Let’s pump it up.

Vote obama: Free money for everyone!

George Watson

February 21st, 2012
11:46 pm

Fascinated that facts have so little meaning anymore. Overwhelming evidence can be so easily dismissed. Truth that is indistinguishable from patent lies. There is an arrogance among fools today that defies explanation. Aside from the current politics which reflect this comedy of the absurd, I suspect there is a great humbling lurking in the shadows. Pride goeth before… Enjoy the show folks, you may get to repeat it as a cautionary tale to your grandchildren.

Towncrier

February 21st, 2012
11:55 pm

“Towncrier: No, it is not simply a compromise to make sure that people are not denied rights simply because they were not enumerated. That’s just silly.”

May I have a historical source, please?

Towncrier

February 22nd, 2012
12:14 am

Adam, here is what Scalia has said:

“The Declaration of Independence…is not a legal prescription conferring powers upon the courts; and the Constitution’s refusal to ‘deny or disparage’ other rights is far removed from affirming any one of them, and even farther removed from authorizing judges to identify what they might be, and to enforce the judges’ list against laws duly enacted by the people.”

I agree with him. If you look at the history of how the 9th Amendment came about, you will see it was to find some way to appease both the Federalists and Anti-Federalists so the Constitution would be ratified.

Adam

February 22nd, 2012
8:30 am

Towncrier: A judge’s dissenting opinion, though important so we know his views, is still just an opinion. I could pull a thousand quotes out of my ass that I could then say I “agree with” from previous officials that are just downright jackassery, but that doesn’t make it right.

Adam

February 22nd, 2012
8:32 am

Towncrier: So if a majority of laws actually respect a right to privacy prior to the court case in which they reference it, but it’s not in the Constitution, does that right still not exist because it hasn’t been put into the Constitution via amendment or Congress making a federal law bout privacy?

Joe Hussein Mama

February 22nd, 2012
9:14 am

VRWC — ” I can get a battalion of PhDs to swear up and down that the moon is made of green cheese if I pay them enough money”

No, you can’t. At least, not PhDs in applicable fields. You could get all the English, Art History and Kinesiology PhDs you want, but their opinions on the composition of the moon would mean exactly jack.

Adam

February 22nd, 2012
9:16 am

VRWC — ” I can get a battalion of PhDs to swear up and down that the moon is made of green cheese if I pay them enough money”

No, you can’t. At least, not PhDs in applicable fields. You could get all the English, Art History and Kinesiology PhDs you want, but their opinions on the composition of the moon would mean exactly jack.

Nice

Joe Hussein Mama

February 22nd, 2012
9:20 am

TownCrier — “The 9th Amendment does not say enough to indicate the means by which the unenumerated rights of people are to be preserved. My contention is that the SCOTUS has presumed to know as much and taken to itself the authority to enumerate new rights, where I believe (as originally) that is the role of the Congress alone. The fact is, the SCOTUS is not an elected body and, if allowed to its designs, is an oligarchy. That is NOT democracy. If the majority of Americans want a right to abortion (or any other right), then let them get Congress to add it as a right to ensure government cannot abridge it.”

Absolutely NOT. We are of completely divergent opinion on this.

Those unemumerated rights exist *independent* of any Congressional legislation pertaining to them, and given the judicial branch’s express power to act as a check on Congress, there’s no justification whatsoever for claiming that the courts have to stand aside on the question of rights until Congress acts. SCOTUS can and has acted *ahead* of Congress in essentially saying ‘there’s a new right here, and you are not to intrude upon it, save in narrowly defined and specifically justifiable circumstances.

Trusting the defense of our rights to Congress is a notably bad idea, and that’s why there’s a judicial branch in the first place.

Joe Hussein Mama

February 22nd, 2012
9:34 am

Adam — “Nice”

My dad’s a college professor and has been one for over 40 years. Consequently, I don’t have a lot of patience with nitwits who claim ‘college professors are paid too much’ or ‘PhDs will say anything if you give them enough money’ or ‘all these noted academics say global warming is bullspit’ and then you look at the list and it’s all economists and historians and christian studies doctorates on there.

I grew up around a college professor. I poked around in his lab from the time I was four or five years old. By the time I was in third grade, I knew what an analytical scale was, what it was used for and how to use it. Pop also explained the scientific method to me at a young age and showed me how actual experiments — ones that the government or business was going to rely on — were conducted and reported. My dad gets called on all the time by private business and the USDA to speak at conferences or to accept research grants to do studies. Some of them he accepts, and some he doesn’t. He’s well into his 70s and doesn’t have time to do every grant-bearing research project that comes his way.

I’ve got a lot of respect for people with doctorates because I didn’t have the patience to earn one myself. But buttheads who insult and disrespect the people who *did* have the intelligence, patience and perseverance to earn one just pizz me the hell off.

Then again, having a doctorate doesn’t make you educated on everything. My dad’s PhD is in Microbiology, and he’s a professor of Agriculture. I’m pretty sure he doesn’t have the faintest idea what the moon’s made of, or what the evidence shows about global climate change or what effect lower marginal tax rates would have on unemployment. Having a doctorate means you’re educated in one specific area. It doesn’t mean you have any special clue about anything else OUTSIDE your area of study.

Adam

February 22nd, 2012
10:03 am

I’ve got a lot of respect for people with doctorates because I didn’t have the patience to earn one myself. But buttheads who insult and disrespect the people who *did* have the intelligence, patience and perseverance to earn one just pizz me the hell off.

Then again, having a doctorate doesn’t make you educated on everything.

EXACTLY

Top economists overwhelmingly back stimulus

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Top economists overwhelmingly back stimulus

729 comments Add your comment

About Jay Bookman

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Archives

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