Top economists overwhelmingly back stimulus
Two important questions with relevance to the 2012 presidential campaign:
1.) Did the 2009 stimulus bill create jobs and lower the unemployment rate, or was it a waste of taxpayers’ money?
2.) In the final accounting, will the benefits of the Obama stimulus package end up outweighing its costs and risks?
The University of Chicago’s Booth School of Business put those questions to more than 40 of the top economists in the country, representing a wide range of viewpoints.
(The Booth School itself, one of the most respected business schools in the country, has long been associated with a more conservative emphasis on free markets).
Here’s what they found:
“Question A: Because of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, the U.S. unemployment rate was lower at the end of 2010 than it would have been without the stimulus bill. Agree or disagree?”
Eighty percent agreed. Four percent disagreed. And the two who disagreed acknowledged that they were far from certain in their opinion.
The results of the second question, while less overwhelming, were still strongly supportive of the policy:
“Question B: Taking into account all of the ARRA’s economic consequences — including the economic costs of raising taxes to pay for the spending, its effects on future spending, and any other likely future effects — the benefits of the stimulus will end up exceeding its costs. Agree or disagree?”
Forty-six percent agreed; just 12 percent disagreed. Another 29 percent said they were uncertain or ventured no opinion.
By a 4-1 margin, in a poll conducted by a respected institution with a conservative reputation, a cross section of the nation’s most respected economists believe that the stimulus would prove to be a net positive for the economy, even after it is paid back. By a margin of 20-1, they believe that it produced jobs and lowered the unemployment rate.
Of course, I understand that such things must be weighed against the fact that Rush and Sean have very different opinions.
– Jay Bookman
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729 comments Add your comment
JOSE
February 21st, 2012
2:47 pm
Adam
So its FAIR for those at the bottom to pay no federal taxes while those in the middle do pay taxes. Those in the middle are not hurt by taxes? Explain the FAIRNESS. Your definition of fairness is based on a emotional world view. YOU PROVE MY POINT. FAIRNESS is that everyone pays the same rate no matter what. Now what I propose is a graduate flat tax rates at scaling income levels
………………………………… its not about FAIRNESS….. there is NO FAIRNESS……… it cannot be quantified…………..
Mick
February 21st, 2012
2:48 pm
reb
**when the Left runs out of legitimate rebuttal they always go to personal attacks or in this case a canard.**
Funny how both sides make the same claim. I take a person’s argument at face value, we just might disagree..
JohnnyReb
February 21st, 2012
2:48 pm
Towncrier – I believe basic goods such as groceries are exempted from taxes in no-income-tax states like Florida. There is no reason it could not be so for a Flat Tax state, but it would apply to everyone, not just low income.
JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!
February 21st, 2012
2:50 pm
“Liberals cannot process or analyze facts or statistics. They only process emotion.”
Hysterical.
Especially, considering that the person who wrote that has not posted one single fact today.
In seven posts, ZERO facts.
As Ann Landers used to write, “Who raised these vegetables?”
JohnnyReb
February 21st, 2012
2:50 pm
OK, I’ve been in/out trying to also get some work done, but it’s not happening. Read you later.
Beefcake
February 21st, 2012
2:50 pm
Unequivocal wa$te of $$$
Jobs? what jobs? the main reason the phony unemployment # goes down this election year is because people stop looking for jobs and drop out of the workforce…this has been thoroughly documented by those in the know.
wake up peoples
md
February 21st, 2012
2:51 pm
“md – don’t be tagging alonmg with KeepUp. It’s ridiculous and you know it. He started the lemonade stand as a canard. I don’t even know why I respond to you, except to point out that when the Left runs out of legitimate rebuttal they always go to personal attacks or in this case a canard.”
Merely stating that I think it would be a good idea to tax the kids…….they need to learn some time, better sooner than later. Lifes little lessons on everyday finances seems to be missing in today’s education………
Keep Up--Te gusta losing numb nutz?
February 21st, 2012
2:52 pm
Johnny can’t defend his statement against even a simple situation so he labels it a canard and runs away.
Mick
February 21st, 2012
2:52 pm
**this has been thoroughly documented by those in the know.**
Yeah, people like rush, hannity or any of the other thousand or so right wing blowhards backed up by clear channel…
Democrat's High Gas Prices
February 21st, 2012
2:53 pm
Questions:
1. Jay’s so-called Top Economists from a Chicago College that’s supported by taxpayers money and
has special intrests in the stimus money that they will recieve from the taxpayers money. As well
as the teacher’s unions.
2. Chicago is Obama’s hometown. Of course they will support anything this idiot corrupt president
from Chicago will do.
4. By a 4-1 margin, in a poll conducted by a respected institution with a conservative reputation, a cross section of the nation’s most respected economists believe that the stimulus would prove to be a net positive for the economy, even after it is paid back. By a margin of 20-1, they believe that it produced jobs and lowered the unemployment rate.” WHO is this so-called conservative institution?
Fred ™
February 21st, 2012
2:54 pm
Towncrier
February 21st, 2012
2:19 pm
There are solutions to our problems and a true leader gets people of opposing viewpoints to come together to find them.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well President Obama isn’t a leader that’s for sure. Unfortunately he is better than any of the candidates for the Republicans that I have seen, they aren’t leaders either. Shame we couldn’t get Colin Powell to run (for either party) now THERE is a man who knows how to be a leader.
HDB
February 21st, 2012
2:55 pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-failure-of-austerity-politics/2012/02/20/gIQAqUaAQR_story_1.html
It’s not the right time to practice austerity measures…..the government should spend money in an economic downturn….and curtail spending during economic peaks! If we look at Europe, the examples speak volumes……
Towncrier
February 21st, 2012
2:55 pm
“Now what I propose is a graduate flat tax rates at scaling income levels”
Well, if memory serves me, there is an economic principle called the marginal propensity to consume (MPC). Basically, people are going to spend most of what they earn. So rich people will still pay a lot in taxes. The graduated taxes could be realized on luxury or so-called “sinful” items (like tobacco) – things not necessary for survival.
Democrat's High Gas Prices
February 21st, 2012
2:55 pm
More democrat lying trash to the juicedrinkers so that they will re-elect the communist president Obama.
Keep Up--Te gusta losing numb nutz?
February 21st, 2012
2:56 pm
md, I don’t disagree about teaching kids and educating them. But the simple point to counter the absurdity of Johnny’s oversimplistic statement was that because the “kids” are part of the 100% income pie UNLESS they pay taxes, then the X group is X% of the pie and that is the cap of what they should pay fails in all cases. So in very simple easy terms, unless 100% of all income is taxed, then one group or all other groups will pay more than their % of the “income pie”. Johnny proposed a bumper sticker mentality to a complicated and nuance discussion of taxes and determining an acceptable basis of taxation.
Fred ™
February 21st, 2012
2:57 pm
JohnnyReb
February 21st, 2012
2:36 pm
Adam – when I went through boot camp in 1966, my TI introduced me to the term “deep $hit.” We are in that state presently in this country because of all the free rides. There are almost enough people on the government dole to vote out any chance of righting the ship. You need to ask yourself what will happen to us when so many vote against character and personal responsibility that our Nation comes to an end? Never happen you say. Well, to that I say BS. It can happen and we are close to being there.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The real problem is all you old blue hairs (or no hairs) on medicare and medicaid bankrupting us all.
Mick
February 21st, 2012
2:58 pm
Teachers unions? Then how come more than 100,000 teachers lost their jobs nationwide? How does the stimulus which is federal affect teachers whom are under local and state policy? Knee jerk anti-union mucscle spasms schould be controlled…
Beefcake
February 21st, 2012
2:58 pm
Mick maybe you should stop listening to blowhard drivel
just sayin’ + no one blows as hard as ‘bama
Adam
February 21st, 2012
2:59 pm
Towncrier: You’re not approaching the subject honestly. Don’t you want to know WHY this is happening in states that are mostly Republican? Even districts have more federal intake than outflow that are majority Republican. I’m not going to say it’s BECAUSE they are Republican, but I think some study needs to be done as to why this is happening. My guess is that it has to do with income levels, and that lower income levels cause a spiral of less money for education, therefore less quality education, therefore a misunderstanding of what government programs are and who gets them, prejudice, etc, and therefore people take in more than they realize because they are less able to judge THEMSELVES for taking government money because they don’t think it’s even happening, or it’s “just a small amount” to them.
md
February 21st, 2012
2:59 pm
“It’s not the right time to practice austerity measures….”
Greece and the old USSR would probably agree…….but one just recently found out where that leads and is now taking a beating under the austerity sledge hammer…….the other never had the chance to find out if austerity would have worked.
Towncrier
February 21st, 2012
2:59 pm
“Unfortunately he is better than any of the candidates for the Republicans that I have seen, they aren’t leaders either.”
I disagree. Romney would be a better leader than Obama. He has proven executive experience on many levels – something Obama didn’t have at all until he took his internship at the WH. But I am not a big Romney fan. A brokered convention may produce a better leader for the nominee.
Mick
February 21st, 2012
3:00 pm
beefcake
So, you think I should be listening to santorum? Ummm…no thanks…
Adam
February 21st, 2012
3:00 pm
Fred: Well President Obama isn’t a leader that’s for sure
Bull
Democrat's High Gas Prices
February 21st, 2012
3:00 pm
Fred, You’re wrong Sir Obama is FAR worst than any of the Republican Candidates. At lease the Republicans love our Country and believe in the U.S.Constitution. Comrade Obama doesn’t and he hates America. By the way Obama promised to restore other Nation’s respect for America. But today most other Nations think less of us for electing such a loser as Obama. Europe and Israel hate Obama.
Fred ™
February 21st, 2012
3:00 pm
JohnnyReb
February 21st, 2012
2:48 pm
Towncrier – I believe basic goods such as groceries are exempted from taxes in no-income-tax states like Florida. There is no reason it could not be so for a Flat Tax state, but it would apply to everyone, not just low income.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
JohnnyReb: Have you read Jay’s articles to the right on the flat tax? I mean REALLY read them? I ask because you are the one who said you don’t read links………..
JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!
February 21st, 2012
3:01 pm
Damn lying liberal Democrats…
“Is this dude serious? Fiscal conservative? Really?” asks the narrator in the ad. “Santorum voted to raise the debt ceiling five times, doubled the size of the Department of Education, then supported the biggest entitlement expansion since the 1960’s. Not groovy. Santorum voted to send billions of our tax dollars to dictators in North Korea and Egypt, and even hooked Planned Parenthood up with a few million bucks. Rick Santorum a fiscal conservative? Fake.”
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/21/paul-ad-slams-santorum/
Adam
February 21st, 2012
3:02 pm
Austerity only solves one thing – the bottom line. It doesn’t take into account, or doesn’t care about, what happens to those who get hit by such measures. It also causes inflation rather than prevents it.
Shawny
February 21st, 2012
3:02 pm
ok, ok. We need to really break this down. First, understand that spending while the economy is down and saving (paying back debts) when the economy is abuzz is widely accepted as a way to balance the highs and lows. The challenge to this is that we are way, way, way in debt at levels never before seen. So, it is tough to do the spending thing.
I challenge the first point made, Jay. It is ‘leading the witness’ with the obvious. It says that the unemployment rate is lower with the first stimulus than without. DUH, if the government hired one government worker, then it is lower by default. It does not mean that it was a good use of funds.
The problem with government spending is that there is so much waste in the bureacracy and layers of crap. A dollar of spending (via increased deficit/debt) does not give us a dollar of value. It generally just digs a bigger hole.
I suggest rather a flat tax, taking out all deductions and loopholes. Then we will not have to hear ‘buffet rule’ again. The 1% will pay a lot more and those that pay absolutely nothing will pay a smidgen. Imagine the new revenue.
williebkind
February 21st, 2012
3:02 pm
First of all Jay, I do not believe any charts put out by the progressive liberals. They are not trustworthy. I guess you make enough money that the price of gas does not have an impact in your life style.
Mick
February 21st, 2012
3:03 pm
Who really cares what israel or europe think…isn’t that usually the standard republican reply? Obama is respected a hundred times more by both countries than the previous knucklehead…
Adam
February 21st, 2012
3:03 pm
JamVet: “Not groovy?”
Fred ™
February 21st, 2012
3:03 pm
Beefcake
February 21st, 2012
2:50 pm
Unequivocal wa$te of $$$
Jobs? what jobs? the main reason the phony unemployment # goes down this election year is because people stop looking for jobs and drop out of the workforce…this has been thoroughly documented by those in the know.
wake up peoples
+++++++++++++++++++++++
And here starts the usual drive by with the alts from the typical people. nothing factual or of any intellectual content, just running through spewing vomitus…………
williebkind
February 21st, 2012
3:05 pm
The canceling of the pipeline will effect the economy more than the stimulus aided the taxpayer. I got it–LET US STARVE AN OIL BASED ECONOMY OF OIL AND TALK ABOUT THE STIMULUS AND ABORTION!
md
February 21st, 2012
3:05 pm
“Then how come more than 100,000 teachers lost their jobs nationwide?”
From my personal experience, layoffs were quite common…….it just happened to be the ones at the bottom of the totem pole that got the ax…….basically due to the “senior” folks voting to keep the staus quo……which meant they kept their jobs while the folks at the bottom got the shaft……..
CJ
February 21st, 2012
3:05 pm
Towncrier,
The marginal propensity to consume does not suggest that “people are going to spend most of what they earn.” It suggests that as our income grows, the percentage of income that we spend falls–and vice versa. In other words, by necessity, poorer families spend most or all of their incomes. On the other and, wealthier people spend smaller portions of their incomes.
In fact, that’s the MPC is one of the justifications for a graduated income tax structure. To avoid taxing income that would otherwise be spent, to the extent possible, government tries only to tax discretionary incomes.
Fred ™
February 21st, 2012
3:05 pm
Democrat’s High Gas Prices
February 21st, 2012
3:00 pm
Fred, You’re wrong Sir Obama is FAR worst than any of the Republican Candidates. At lease the Republicans love our Country and believe in the U.S.Constitution. Comrade Obama doesn’t and he hates America. By the way Obama promised to restore other Nation’s respect for America. But today most other Nations think less of us for electing such a loser as Obama. Europe and Israel hate Obama.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wow, and here is another.
Have you anything other than useless rhetoric to add sir? Any facts? Any figures? Anything other than a nonsensical rant that looks like something my daughters 4th grade teacher would give her an f on for thought, content and spelling?
Please. Have another beer.
Adam
February 21st, 2012
3:06 pm
Jobs? what jobs? the main reason the phony unemployment # goes down this election year is because people stop looking for jobs and drop out of the workforce…this has been thoroughly documented by those in the know.
Incorrect. ALL unemployment metrics have gone down over the past five months, including the number of unemployed, no longer looking, and part time employed.
Democrat's High Gas Prices
February 21st, 2012
3:06 pm
Teachers unions in Ws won’t even pay a small amount towards their benefits package like everybody eles does. They are so fat and dishonest. Unions are RAN by a bunch of corrupt thugs that support any lying democrat like Obama. They seal your money from your pay checks and force their candidates on you. And Adam Obama is full of bull. You were close but not all there.
JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!
February 21st, 2012
3:07 pm
Flip Romney is a dead man walking. And stumbling right into the next McCaining.
There is only one reason that he will be the nominee and that is because the Keystone Cop Trio keep stepping on their own tongues…
I do not believe any charts that don’t say exactly what I want them to say. ~Thomas Jefferson
Mick
February 21st, 2012
3:07 pm
md
**basically due to the “senior” folks voting to keep the staus quo……which meant they kept their jobs while the folks at the bottom got the shaft……..**
So, you’re advocating that the people that put in the time and experience should move aside for the younger inexperienced? What profession does that? Police? Fireman? CPA’s? Lawyers? Doctors?
Towncrier
February 21st, 2012
3:08 pm
“I’m not going to say it’s BECAUSE they are Republican, but I think some study needs to be done as to why this is happening. My guess is that it has to do with income levels, and that lower income levels cause a spiral of less money for education, therefore less quality education, therefore a misunderstanding of what government programs are and who gets them, prejudice, etc, and therefore people take in more than they realize because they are less able to judge THEMSELVES for taking government money because they don’t think it’s even happening, or it’s “just a small amount” to them.”
Personally, I would like the DOE to go away and see states shoulder the responsibility for educating their citizens. Big is not necessarily good. You can see that even in the corporate world. Big means less flexibility, more bureaucracy, complacency, less creative solutions to unique problems and the like. Why do you think the American automotive industry is in so much trouble? Bad decisions at the executive level brought on by myopia, complacency and huge and unwarranted labor costs.
md
February 21st, 2012
3:08 pm
“Austerity only solves one thing – the bottom line. It doesn’t take into account, or doesn’t care about, what happens to those who get hit by such measures.”
Neither does default……….
” It also causes inflation rather than prevents it.”
So does printing money by the tons…..good thing we aren’t doing that huh……
Fred ™
February 21st, 2012
3:09 pm
williebkind
February 21st, 2012
3:02 pm
First of all Jay, I do not believe any charts put out by the progressive liberals. They are not trustworthy. I guess you make enough money that the price of gas does not have an impact in your life style.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I can see where one of the top 10 business schools in the WORLD would be lacking in credibility as opposed to Rush Limbaugh………………
Nice rebuttal willie. You have me convinced…….
Obama is over
February 21st, 2012
3:09 pm
I would like to see a third question estimating GDP for the year with and without $800 billion in additional debt. Interest rates have been kept artificially low by the Fed which has created liquidity for the markets, yet banks are still not lending and the housing crisis festers on. U.S. interest rates have benefited from the flight to quality bid as a result of economic instability in Europe. As the EU stabilizes, the world is going to assess the amount of debt the U.S. is carrying in relation to GDP and interest rates will rise. The Fed will have very few bullets left to prevent this. Of course spending exorbitant amounts of money per job is going to “save” jobs in the short run. However, Obama has a record of spending for short term political gain in exchange for long term debt. Politicians tend to make economic decisions for political reasons, not economic. Maybe you are satisfied by 2.3% growth, but we need to at least double that to regain employment to precrash levels. The fundamental difference here is that rather than creating an environment for entepreneurs to succeed, Obama prefers to invest directly in companies. Thus, the government decides who will win and who will lose. When the Government decides to invest in specific market sectors, private enterprise is prevented from competing and creativity is stifled. Without realistically addressing the debt crisis by cutting spending, the economy will not grow. Clinton figured this out early on in office in the PBS documantary last night. He was able to balance the budget by cutting spending and raising taxes. Obama is trying to get re-elected by raising taxes on a small per centage of the country and massively increasing entitlement spending to gather votes. All you have to do is look at his budget proposal to realize that his plan simply will not work.
williebkind
February 21st, 2012
3:10 pm
“4th grade teacher would give her an f on for thought, content and spelling? ”
That is because your daughter’s 4th grade teacher iindoctrinates students and does not teach students.
Democrat's High Gas Prices
February 21st, 2012
3:10 pm
Fred, Thank you for your comment and hope your daughter does better, but all you have to do is look at Obama’s policies and the debt he and the democrats have created during his term so far.
Please wake up and smell the roses. This president is a liar and Obama is wrong for America.
Mick
February 21st, 2012
3:10 pm
To all you anti-unionistas out there; Unions don’t even hold a candle compared to corporate thugs and their golden parachutes. Hell, even the mafia is envious…
Adam
February 21st, 2012
3:10 pm
md: Yeah, good thing the thing we aren’t doing is keeping inflation low huh?
Joe Hussein Mama
February 21st, 2012
3:11 pm
High Gas Content — “Teachers unions in Ws won’t even pay a small amount towards their benefits package like everybody eles does.”
Lie. The public employee unions in Wisconsin agreed to *every* concession Governor Walker demanded, if he would just permit them to retain their collective bargaining rights. He declined.
So much for your baseless assertion.
CJ
February 21st, 2012
3:11 pm
First of all Jay, I do not believe any charts put out by the progressive liberals. They are not trustworthy.
The Initiative of Global Markets is a project of the University of Chicago’s School of Business. It’s ignorant to suggest that the University of Chicago’s School of Business is “progressive liberal.” To the contrary.
In truth, williebkind doesn’t believe any charts displaying facts conflicting with his ideology.
Towncrier
February 21st, 2012
3:12 pm
“The marginal propensity to consume does not suggest that “people are going to spend most of what they earn.” It suggests that as our income grows, the percentage of income that we spend falls–and vice versa. In other words, by necessity, poorer families spend most or all of their incomes. On the other and, wealthier people spend smaller portions of their incomes.”
You are thinking in terms of percentages, not total amount of dollars spent. It is true that the MPC drops with more disposable income. But it is a fact that people are going to spend much of what they earn. Show me evidence of a entertainer or athlete living in a modest 2 bedroom townhouse and driving a Sentra.
Adam
February 21st, 2012
3:12 pm
Towncrier: First of all, the automotive industry is NOT in trouble any more. That aside, let’s address the issue of states handling their education:
Do you mean entirely? As in whatever money they get is what they spend on education? Or do you mean materially, where states decide things like curriculum? Or do you mean both?
williebkind
February 21st, 2012
3:12 pm
Fred ™
February 21st, 2012
3:09 pm
Oh I am sorry, I guess we should have a consensus an forget facts again. Or we can skew the inputs to get the desired outputs. Really, liberals are good at this.
md
February 21st, 2012
3:13 pm
“So, you’re advocating that the people that put in the time and experience should move aside for the younger inexperienced? What profession does that? Police? Fireman? CPA’s? Lawyers? Doctors?”
No, I’m in favor of making it but one variable in the equation of many…….with merit being the predominant component. Even as I age, I’m under no illusion that there aren’t plenty out there that can do things better and faster than I can……..so it’s up to me to position myself accordingly.
ragnar danneskjold
February 21st, 2012
3:13 pm
Dear md @ 1:50 and Poor Boy @ 1:56, brilliant analysis by each of you, thanks for posting.
Democrat's High Gas Prices
February 21st, 2012
3:14 pm
Fred comment ” can see where one of the top 10 business schools in the WORLD would be lacking in credibility as opposed to Rush Limbaugh………………
Nice rebuttal willie. You have me convinced…….”
The University of Chicago is not one of the top ten business schools in the WORLD. Only in Jay’s and your mind Fred.
Adam
February 21st, 2012
3:14 pm
Towncrier: You are thinking in terms of percentages, not total amount of dollars spent.
Isn’t that what YOU’RE doing by talking about charts of percentage of taxes versus percentage of income earned?
Adam
February 21st, 2012
3:14 pm
md: No, I’m in favor of making it but one variable in the equation of many…….with merit being the predominant component. Even as I age, I’m under no illusion that there aren’t plenty out there that can do things better and faster than I can……..so it’s up to me to position myself accordingly
Agreed.
Democrat's High Gas Prices
February 21st, 2012
3:17 pm
CJ, Most Colleges today are ran by liberals and taught by liberal teachers. Look for yourself.
CJ
February 21st, 2012
3:18 pm
Towncrier,
You are correct. I AM thinking in terms of percentages. You should be too because the marginal propensity to consume IS a percentage.
It’s a figure between 0 and 1. For example, if the MPC for a certain income category is 1, the meaning is that, on average, those in that income bracket will spend 100 percent of their income. If the MPC for another income category is .5, then on average, those in that category will spend 50 percent of their incomes.
The MPC doesn’t say that rich people don’t spend a lot of money. It says that they spend a smaller percentage of their incomes than the middle class and the middle class spends a smaller percentage of their incomes than the poor.
md
February 21st, 2012
3:18 pm
“md: Yeah, good thing the thing we aren’t doing is keeping inflation low huh?”
Just a matter of time Adam…..just a matter of time. Bernanke is a hair late on the lever, and hang on for the blast off.
Stevie Ray
February 21st, 2012
3:19 pm
JAY,
I saw the GA GOP wingnuts are pressing for ban on abortions beyond 20 weeks. In response, GA Dems have meeting to propose ban on vasectomies…..too strange for fiction. How much more aburdities need we endure in contempt of our tax dollars.????
Adam
February 21st, 2012
3:19 pm
CJ, Most Colleges today are ran by liberals and taught by liberal teachers. Look for yourself.
Even if you’re right, so what? Does that necessarily mean they’re trying to do anything more than teach the realities of math and science when they teach those classes?
Brosephus
February 21st, 2012
3:19 pm
JRebIncome Category 2009AGI % of All Income % Taxes Paid
Top 1% >$343,927 17% 37%
Top 5% >$154,643 32% 59%
Top 10% >$112,124 43% 70%
Top 25% >$66,193 66% 87%
Top 50% >$32,396 87% 98%
Bottom 50% <$32,396 13% 2%
That still doesn’t dispute what I posted. “But among families making more than $100,000, there were also half a million tax units — enough to replace the population of Tucson, Arizona — that also paid no income tax. Even more surprising, 7,000 millionaires also paid no individual income tax.”
While you, and others try to pretend that the 47%-50% who pay no income tax are all welfare shopping, Cadillac riding, 5 kids with no daddy women, the fact is there are those who are in the top 1% who belong to the bottom 50% who pay no taxes. Quoting the percentage paid by groups does not prove that everybody in that percentile pays or does not pay. In the same thought, posting averages does not prove that everybody pays either.
——————————-
By the way if you do the math each so called job created by the failed stimulus costs tax payers $278,000. Is this success????
It’s definitely not a successful talking point when you consider a third of the stimulus was tax cuts. It’s a common theme that conservatives do not equate tax cuts to spending, therefore your math is faulty as you’re trying to use the amount of the entire package, including tax cuts, to calculate a spending total. Typical rhetorical fail….
Joseph
February 21st, 2012
3:19 pm
Granny Godzilla:
Prove me wrong….
MrLiberty
February 21st, 2012
3:19 pm
These of course are the SAME economists who never saw the housing bubble coming, never saw the crash of 2008 coming, never saw the collapse of the housing bubble coming, actually believe the government inflation figures, actually believe the government employment figures, think printing money out of thin air can actually create wealth, and every other historically-disproved Keynesian theory about economics. These clowns are “top economists” because they tell the lies the Fed and the government need them to tell so they get employed at the prestigious institutions that feed at the federal trough. Wow, what a self-fulfilling cycle.
Ron Paul on the other hand along with ALL of the Austrian Economists, accurately predicted the housing bubble (and warned everyone on the floor of the congress in a speech), accurately predicted the collapse of the economy, the housing bubble, the massive inflation we are now seeing, etc.
Who are you actually going to believe? The folks who were wrong on every account or the folks who have always been right??
go to www(dot)mises(dot)org and read what the economists who have been correct have been saying since the creation of the criminal Federal Reserve. Plenty of free books and articles at this site.
Adam
February 21st, 2012
3:19 pm
md: Just a matter of time Adam…..just a matter of time. Bernanke is a hair late on the lever, and hang on for the blast off.
Saved for a later “I told you so”
CJ
February 21st, 2012
3:20 pm
Democrat’s High Gas Prices,
We’re not talking about most colleges. We’re talking about the University of Chicago’s School of Business.
Democrat's High Gas Prices
February 21st, 2012
3:20 pm
Obama and his commie friends need to be removed from office all of them left and right. America needs a real conservative leader not another liberal idiot like Obama. One that believes in America and will stand up for her Constitution.
Adam
February 21st, 2012
3:20 pm
md: And btw, saying that EVENTUALLY you will be proven right is a logical fallacy. Let’s deal in the here and now and historical fact, shall we?
Fred ™
February 21st, 2012
3:20 pm
Obama is over
February 21st, 2012
3:09 pm
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That was a really sweet piece. Did you get it via email and do you go around from blog to blog posting that propaganda?
Joseph Goebbels would be so proud of you and your republican buddies. you do credit to all his fie work.
Democrat's High Gas Prices
February 21st, 2012
3:21 pm
CJ, They are included thank you.
Obama's Gas is Offensive
February 21st, 2012
3:22 pm
Obama’s refusal to approve the keystone pipeline and his refusal to approve more domestic oil production could be his downfall in November but it might be the nations as well if we go back into deep recession.
Adam
February 21st, 2012
3:22 pm
MrLiberty: and every other historically-disproved Keynesian theory about economics.
Please, give me some historic proof. And try to do better than “lost decade” or “Greece” please.
Towncrier
February 21st, 2012
3:22 pm
“Isn’t that what YOU’RE doing by talking about charts of percentage of taxes versus percentage of income earned?”
The poster to whom I was responding said the MPC was lower among the wealthier, and that is true as they tens to save more. But my point was that they are nonetheless going to spend much of what they earn and if they have to pay higher consumption taxes for things like yachts and planes and mansions, the tax revenue will not decline.
Democrat's High Gas Prices
February 21st, 2012
3:22 pm
Fred, Obama and Joseph Goebbels would be so proud of you and the corruption lead by the democrats and the liberal mainstreet media.
CJ
February 21st, 2012
3:23 pm
Democrat’s High Gas Prices,
As I said, just because someone presents facts that conflict with your ideology, that doesn’t usually make that somebody a “progressive liberal.” But if saying that the earth is round makes me a progressive liberal, then so be it.
JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!
February 21st, 2012
3:23 pm
The University of Chicago is not one of the top ten business schools in the WORLD.
Meat, did you even graduate from high school?
The University of Chicago Booth School of Business is a graduate business school located in Chicago, Illinois, at the University of Chicago. Formerly known as the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business, Chicago Booth is the second oldest business school in the U.S., the first such school to offer an Executive MBA program, and the first to initiate a Ph.D. program in Business.
Chicago Booth was ranked 1st in the United States by Bloomberg BusinessWeek in 2006, 2008 and 2010. The program was also ranked 2nd globally in the 2011 The Economist MBA ranking. Chicago Booth was ranked 3rd in the Forbes Best Business Schools Ranking 2011. The MBA program was ranked 3rd (after Harvard and Stanford) in The Poets&Quants composite ranking of the five major rankings. US News, in the 2011 Best Business Schools ranking, ranked Chicago Booth 5th, while its Executive MBA program was ranked 2nd, and its Part Time program was ranked 1st. The School was indexed as the 6th best Business School in North America in the 2010 QS Global 200 Business Schools Report.
Adam
February 21st, 2012
3:24 pm
Towncrier: But my point was that they are nonetheless going to spend much of what they earn and if they have to pay higher consumption taxes for things like yachts and planes and mansions, the tax revenue will not decline.
Such an argument is conflating the idea of dollars (first half of your sentence) and percentages (the amount, percentage wise, they would have to spend on such things would not be revenue neutral to the income tax code of now).
Fred ™
February 21st, 2012
3:24 pm
Democrat’s High Gas Prices
February 21st, 2012
3:10 pm
Fred, Thank you for your comment and hope your daughter does better, but all you have to do is look at Obama’s policies and the debt he and the democrats have created during his term so far.
Please wake up and smell the roses. This president is a liar and Obama is wrong for America.
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And you STILL have offered nothing of substance. Nothing other than a few bumper sticker slogans tossed together. Nothing but hate of Obama and your “belief.”
I realize that is enough for you talk radio folks, but us independents require a little more. We not only THINK, but we think for ourselves. If you have nothing to offer then I will have to put you obn the “nothing to say worth reading” ignore list.
TaxPayer
February 21st, 2012
3:25 pm
Republicans are just gonna have to face the fact that their lame attempts to destroy our economy have failed. Go drown your sorrows in a keg of Pabst.
Democrat's High Gas Prices
February 21st, 2012
3:26 pm
Adam, “Even if you’re right, so what? Does that necessarily mean they’re trying to do anything more than teach the realities of math and science when they teach those classes?”
YES, they are trying to brainwaste the students minds with their liberal GOD hating agenda’s
They should stick to the subjects and leave their politics at home.
Adam
February 21st, 2012
3:26 pm
BTW Towncrier I would like to say thank you for having a reasonable discussion so far.
Brosephus
February 21st, 2012
3:26 pm
Fred™
Are you acting like a liberal today?? I keep seeing you being referred to as a liberal.
Towncrier
February 21st, 2012
3:26 pm
“Do you mean entirely? As in whatever money they get is what they spend on education? Or do you mean materially, where states decide things like curriculum? Or do you mean both?”
Monetarily and materially. Maybe the DOE could remain as a small department that articulated some reduced core or educational standards. It is a very costly behemoth.
Towncrier
February 21st, 2012
3:27 pm
“BTW Towncrier I would like to say thank you for having a reasonable discussion so far.”
Likewise, my friend.
Peadawg - GA female house democrats are craze
February 21st, 2012
3:28 pm
After getting my lovely tax return…no way I’m voting for Republicans so they can raise my taxes to pay for the wealthy’s tax cuts.
What’s with the 9% unemployment I’m hearing about?
Georgia, The " New Mississippi "
February 21st, 2012
3:28 pm
Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Jay……………Johnny Reb Economists disagree .
Fred ™
February 21st, 2012
3:28 pm
williebkind
February 21st, 2012
3:12 pm
Fred ™
February 21st, 2012
3:09 pm
Oh I am sorry, I guess we should have a consensus an forget facts again. Or we can skew the inputs to get the desired outputs. Really, liberals are good at this.
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Sorry bro but that didn’t make a lick of sense. Calm down and type all the words you want. I think you left some out there.
I know you far right nut cases like to over simplify, but let me help you. The University of Chicago was there LONG before Mubarak Obama moved in, so there is no inherent “Chicago connection” there. Their business school is the second oldest in the Country I think. They are most usually considered to be right wing. Your rant is appearing to be highly irrational and completely illogical. You may want to go back and rethink what you want to say……
Democrat's High Gas Prices
February 21st, 2012
3:29 pm
Fred, You’re not an independant. You’re an Obama democrat. If you don’t see the destruction this ptuz is doing then you are dumb and blind Sir. And I pray you’re not, Best to you.
Joseph
February 21st, 2012
3:30 pm
http://nation.foxnews.com/tim-tebow/2012/02/21/10-year-old-girl-gets-special-night-out-tebow
Stevie Ray
February 21st, 2012
3:31 pm
TAXPAYER
I thought they ruined it before BO and the only reason it still sux is because of Bush. Will if be ok with you if BO gets run out of office and replaced with similar spineless dolt of the GOP variety, that the new guy uses his first 4 years laying blame on the fact that “things were much worse that we expected” and it’s not our fault. How will you respond to that? Your guy is a spineless crony no different that the GOP folks, all of congress and most of the cabinet. He has crap record….healthcare bill passed in dark that is constituionally challenged, more warmongering, drone strikes…although he did say “ok” to get OBL but that was only brought about by 10 years of rebuilding intelligence network that last democrat pres destroyed….wasted our money like a drunk sailor..they are the same and taking any other position is naive.
md
February 21st, 2012
3:31 pm
Just to stir the pot a bit and lather up the conspiracy group:
“Researchers at the University of Chicago have been awarded more than $42 million in research funding from the National Institutes of Health, part of a $5 billion boost for medical research from the federal economic stimulus package.
The funding, the most awarded to any Illinois research institution, will fund cutting-edge research in genetics, medicine and biodefense and help advance effective treatments for asthma, pulmonary disease and cancer.”
Tit for tat??
JamVet - My god man, protect the billionaires!
February 21st, 2012
3:32 pm
The thing that is so funny about the academic hating, semi-literate, intelligence averse nitwits like high gas meat is that if he were even a tad culturally, or otherwise, literate he would know that that school is very prestigious and world renown for it’s status as one of the very best anywhere.
But yet he is apparently an expert on all matters related to education.
Good times out there in the lunatic fringe…
Democrat's High Gas Prices
February 21st, 2012
3:32 pm
“Peadawg – GA female house democrats are craze
February 21st, 2012
3:28 pm
After getting my lovely tax return…no way I’m voting for Republicans so they can raise my taxes to pay for the wealthy’s tax cuts.
What’s with the 9% unemployment I’m hearing about?”
Wrong party, the democrats are the tax increase party aswell as the socialist do no good party. Lead by Obama, King Harry Reid, Queen Pelosi. All democrat liars.
Fred ™
February 21st, 2012
3:33 pm
Democrat’s High Gas Prices
February 21st, 2012
3:14 pm
Fred comment ” can see where one of the top 10 business schools in the WORLD would be lacking in credibility as opposed to Rush Limbaugh………………
Nice rebuttal willie. You have me convinced…….”
The University of Chicago is not one of the top ten business schools in the WORLD. Only in Jay’s and your mind Fred.
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My mind and the minds of most of the people who rank these things. I can only provide you two links of the hundreds available because I think two is all Jay’s blog allows:
http://bestmba.org/
Whoop, here ya go, I’ll toss you a bone, in this one they are only 11th………… the lowest I could find them lol
http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/global-mba-rankings-2012
You right wing nutcases really DON’T think before you post do you? Do you ever think at all?
WOODSTOCK MIKE
February 21st, 2012
3:33 pm
When Obama says that in America a few people are doing well and the rest are struggling to get by do liberals really believe that? Wow, scary…
Democrat's High Gas Prices
February 21st, 2012
3:35 pm
JamVet, You can beat my meat and any name you call me is still better than you the one that has to tell the cops where you live and move so that they can keep you away from the school kids. Aren’t you still on that list downtown?
Towncrier
February 21st, 2012
3:35 pm
“Such an argument is conflating the idea of dollars (first half of your sentence) and percentages (the amount, percentage wise, they would have to spend on such things would not be revenue neutral to the income tax code of now).”
The MPC cannot be known, as it is not fixed. Some have suggested it is, as a rule, about 90% of income. But while an income tax can be fixed, the income from which it is drawn cannot be known. So there are going to be uncertainties with any tax system. A consumption tax is attractive to me because it is simple, does not require expensive and massive oversight and enforcement, gives politicians much fewer ways of accommodating “special interests” and is essentially fair (that is, everyone pays some amount of taxes).
WOODSTOCK MIKE
February 21st, 2012
3:35 pm
@Fred
You seem so brilliant, tell me, what exactly is Obama doing that you think is so fantastic. Which specific economic policy has Obama implemented that makes you say, man, this guy is a great president?