I think it’s important to understand just what the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops is demanding in its war against contraception coverage. Here’s USA Today on the matter:
The White House is “all talk, no action” on moving toward compromise, said Anthony Picarello, general counsel for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. “There has been a lot of talk in the last couple days about compromise, but it sounds to us like a way to turn down the heat, to placate people without doing anything in particular,” Picarello said. “We’re not going to do anything until this is fixed.”
That means removing the provision from the health care law altogether, he said, not simply changing it for Catholic employers and their insurers. He cited the problem that would create for “good Catholic business people who can’t in good conscience cooperate with this.”
“If I quit this job and opened a Taco Bell, I’d be covered by the mandate,” Picarello said.
In other words, the bishops are not merely demanding that church-affiliated organizations be exempted from the requirement that contraception be covered in health insurance. They are insisting that the contraception requirement be abolished altogether.
The proposed legislative fix endorsed by the bishops, HR 1179, makes that explicitly clear. It states that no insurer or employer can be required to provide coverage if paying for such coverage “is contrary to the religious beliefs or moral convictions of the sponsor, issuer, or other entity offering the plan; or (if) such coverage (in the case of individual coverage) is contrary to the religious beliefs or moral convictions of the purchaser or beneficiary of the coverage.”
Again, that is not a fix limited to churches or church-affliated organizations. It would prohibit the contraception requirement across the board, for every employer and insurer.
If you had any doubts about how political this all is, that ought to resolve them. Twenty-eight states, including conservative Georgia, have had laws on the books for years that require contraceptives be covered, with not a squeak of protest or complaint.
And yet now it becomes a threat to religious liberty?
– Jay Bookman
1,108 comments Add your comment
Josey Whales
February 9th, 2012
12:31 pm
First………What’s up Jay
Adam
February 9th, 2012
12:35 pm
Surprise! They are trying to impose their religious will on the rest of the population through law. And yet, they get all upset when the government imposes something that is contrary to their faith by law. HOW DOES IT FEEL?
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
12:36 pm
Jay, I say this with love … but …
WELL, DUH.
stands for decibels
February 9th, 2012
12:38 pm
And yet now it becomes a threat to religious liberty?
Well, Jay, you work in an establishment, mainstream media outlet. Why aren’t you telling the d!ckheads in your midst to start covering this honestly?
Put another way–why did I only learn about GA’s law today? Why wasn’t that the freaking headline last week, when Newt Gingrich was running his fat mouth about it?
getalife
February 9th, 2012
12:38 pm
Tax them.
There is your compromise.
Our President got another 26 billion from the banks for mortgage fraud.
The gop would never get money from big oil or the banks for damages.
They would apologize to them.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
12:39 pm
What happened, did Karen Handle get a job with them after leaving Komen?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
12:39 pm
So this “threat to religious liberty” means that the Catholic Church can impose its beliefs on all Americans no matter what religion?
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
12:41 pm
“So this “threat to religious liberty” means that the Catholic Church can impose its beliefs on all Americans no matter what religion?”
TRANSUBSTANTIATION FOR EVERYBODY!!!
Mick
February 9th, 2012
12:42 pm
Sorry to be so down on the catholic bishops, but they just don’t have any credibility left from this past decade. Their priorities are bass ackwards…
Brosephus
February 9th, 2012
12:42 pm
And yet now it becomes a threat to religious liberty?
It’s all good when the state does it. They just don’t want that all-powerful federal government telling them what to do. Have you not heard of the 10th Amendment before?
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
12:43 pm
Picarello said. “We’re not going to do anything until this is fixed.”
Sounds like child molestation rates will be dropping.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
12:43 pm
Twenty-eight states, including conservative Georgia, have had laws on the books for years that require contraceptives be covered, with not a squeak of protest or complaint.
PRECISELY. It’s another WEDGE issue. Like the whole Ground Zero Mosque non-event.
Jefferson
February 9th, 2012
12:43 pm
The president should call out the nuts and let the real Americans who need these provisions to decide. You would think with all the problems the Bishops have with their own, they would just mind their own business.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
12:44 pm
Mick – “Their priorities are bass ackwards…”
Which means they will openly embraced by the Right and will be held up as pillars of all that is good and decent as opposed to the godless, socialist, marxist, kenyan Obama.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
12:44 pm
I shall now establish a religion that says it is ok to murder abortion doctors. Now you can’t charge me or lock me up if I murder an abortion doctor because RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.
THAT is how stupid the “religious freedom” argument is.
stands for decibels
February 9th, 2012
12:45 pm
More about the individual state requirements here:
http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/spibs/spib_ICC.pdf
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
12:45 pm
“It would prohibit the contraception requirement across the board, for every employer and insurer.”
And that’s what pisses me off most of all about the “new entitlement” …
the right la-la-LOVES to talk about how the left feels “entitled”, but they don’t want to acknowledge their own issues of the same. They seem to think that they are entitled to inflict their beliefs on others – their employees, their neighbors, their government. You don’t believe in contraception? then feel free to not use it. but you do not have the right to dictate that belief to your employees.
nor do you have the right to say “I don’t want MY TAX DOLLARS to funde X,Y,Z” – we all have stuff that we don’t want / like / agree with. However, because this is a great big world with great big problems and a great big population, there is a little thing called COMPROMISE … it’s what GROWN-UPs do …
so suck it up, pull on your big-boy pants and get over yourself.
Peadawg
February 9th, 2012
12:45 pm
So, like a lot of things in politics, compromise means “my way or the highway”.
Proud to be me!
February 9th, 2012
12:46 pm
Adam
February 9th, 2012
12:35 pm
ADAM
“. . . . They are trying to impose their religious will on the rest of the population through law.” And what is it when it is turned around the other way . . and the socialists are imposing their will on the rest of the population. At least where religion is involved . . . the Constitution should stand!!
stands for decibels
February 9th, 2012
12:46 pm
Can’t wait to hear what Reichsmarshall Limbaugh has told his listeners to think about this…
Josey Whales
February 9th, 2012
12:46 pm
Jay, it’s only an issue for the elite or catholic right. Members that have an agenda against President Obama. 28 states already have this law on their books and never a word until now.
Mick
February 9th, 2012
12:47 pm
**TRANSUBSTANTIATION FOR EVERYBODY!!!
I’m in or is it out?
Peadawg
February 9th, 2012
12:48 pm
“THAT is how stupid the “religious freedom” argument is.”
So the 1st amendment or stupid?
stands for decibels
February 9th, 2012
12:48 pm
Eight of those 28 states (GA included) have *no* refusal provisions whatsoever.
Kamchak
February 9th, 2012
12:48 pm
“When contraceptives are outlawed, only outlaws will have contraceptives”
– Thomas Jefferson
Brosephus
February 9th, 2012
12:49 pm
dB
Thanks for that link. The highlights tab gave me far more insight than what I knew before all this blowup started.
Brosephus
February 9th, 2012
12:50 pm
getalife
That’s just plain ugly… way, way low…
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
12:51 pm
Kam – “you can have my condom when you pry it from my cold, dead hand” – Thomas Jefferson
Adam
February 9th, 2012
12:51 pm
Proud to be me: The Constitution does stand. Remember, this has BEEN in the law from the beginning. Only NOW people are yelling “unconstitutional”? It’s NOT unconstitutional,, or a challenge to the STATE laws would have already been presented.
Either A) You guys do not bother to read these laws even when they are bills or B) you’re just making up an issue like you did in 2010 with the Ground Zero Mosque. In either case, WHY should I trust anyone who is making an issue out of this NOW?
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
12:51 pm
Peadawg – “So the 1st amendment or stupid?”
that’s not what he’s saying … not even close.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
12:52 pm
stands: Can’t wait to hear what Reichsmarshall Limbaugh has told his listeners to think about this
You are already. All you have to do is read just about any regular conservative poster’s response and you can bet Rush prodded them.
ragnar danneskjold
February 9th, 2012
12:52 pm
ObamaCare says that I, as an employer, may not choose to not fund abortion pills. That is manifestly a threat to my right to worship, to live my right as close to the Godly example as I can. Leftists are the threat.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
12:52 pm
Josey Wales – “28 states already have this law on their books and never a word until now.”
Well, Obama wasn’t President when those states passed those regulations. It’s a whole different story now.
stands for decibels
February 9th, 2012
12:52 pm
The highlights tab gave me far more insight than what I knew before all this blowup started.
it’s a pretty short document–make sure you go to the chart on Page 3.
I am torn between saying “The mainstream media has totally blown this” and saying “The mainstream media knows that 2012 is shaping up to be a rout by Obama and a horrible defeat for the GOP, thus they’ll seize upon any poutrage and inflate it to keep things more competitive.”
Or put more concisely–are the mainstream media stupid, or lying?
Fedup
February 9th, 2012
12:53 pm
Me thinks more child molestation news may be coming put. Preemptive strike to cover their collective a$$.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
12:53 pm
Eight of those 28 states (GA included) have *no* refusal provisions whatsoever.
OMG! What about the BAY-BEEEEZ!!!!111!!
I am shocked our conservative friends have been fighting these fascist states quietly, right under our noses, without saying a word. How modest of them.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
12:53 pm
No, Peadawg, the idea that employers of secular institutions should provide health insurance that covers contraception as being somehow an assault on “religious freedom” is what is stupid.
Finn McCool
February 9th, 2012
12:53 pm
Seriously, if we wanted to limit religious freedom we would surely start with banning burning at the stake inflicted on those who don’t fully accept the Catholic spiel.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
12:54 pm
It is harsh but they still try to cover it up.
I would ask them.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
12:54 pm
ragnar – ObamaCare says that I, as an employer, may not choose to not fund abortion pills.”
So does RomneyCare, when will you sending in your pledge for Santorum?
Adam
February 9th, 2012
12:55 pm
ragnar: Leftists are a threat to what, exactly? Homes full of wanted (as opposed to unwanted) children? Upward mobility for poor people who do not want to have children right away? Equality for women?
Jay
February 9th, 2012
12:55 pm
Getalife, I pulled that comment down.
If you feel it’s necessary to bring the child-abuse controversy into this, let’s do it with some dignity.
CJ
February 9th, 2012
12:56 pm
What’s next? Will the Church will demand that “good Catholic business people” shouldn’t have to promote women to leadership positions or allow homosexual customers into their place of business?
I was born and raised in the Church, and as an adult, I couldn’t get away fast enough (I attend a different church). The Church hierarchy has been off the rails for centuries, and their activities of late have not put me at ease. There’s no reason to support their nuttiness by putting my dollars into their collection plate.
june
February 9th, 2012
12:56 pm
I’d like to put a condom on dogma.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
12:56 pm
“ObamaCare says that I, as an employer, may not choose to not fund abortion pills.”
abortion pills???
seriously???
if you’re talking about the pill, considering it prevents ovulation, there is no egg to fertilize – ergo, no abortion.
thanks for playing Dr. Rags …
Mick
February 9th, 2012
12:56 pm
Just wait until israel attacks iran, this issue will be relegated to the dustbin pronto…
stands for decibels
February 9th, 2012
12:56 pm
If you feel it’s necessary to bring the child-abuse controversy into this, let’s do it with some dignity.
Dang, there goes my “How do you separate the men from the boys at the Vatican?” closer.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
12:57 pm
OK Jay.
Finn McCool
February 9th, 2012
12:57 pm
don’t just pull the comment down, Jay.
Burn him!
Adam
February 9th, 2012
12:57 pm
I think the focus on this particular issue needs to be squarely where Jay put it – on the overall goal of legalizing their religious viewpoint. The child abuse stuff need not even enter into it. Kind of like how all the Republican candidates suck because of POLICY, not how many wives or affairs or how little taxes etc.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
12:58 pm
Finn – 12:57 – he turned me into a newt, you know …
ty webb
February 9th, 2012
12:58 pm
sheep eating out of kettles bemoaning the fact that other sheep eat out of kettles…all the while shouting “Black”…ah yes, Irony…or is it Hypocrisy…either way, it’s enteratining.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
12:59 pm
Adam – “Kind of like how all the Republican candidates suck because of POLICY, not how many wives or affairs or how little taxes etc.”
yeah … but the taxes and tawdry sex lives are a bonus
TaxPayer
February 9th, 2012
12:59 pm
Perhaps Picarello needs to be having these heart to hearts with the Catholic congregation rather than trying to violate our nation’s sacred belief in separation of church and state. We don’t want no steenking theocracy. He could start by telling them that if they use contraceptives, then they are not welcome in the Catholic Church. Then he could tell them that the Church and all its affiliates will no longer offer insurance in order to comply with his beliefs. Then maybe open up the floor to comments.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
12:59 pm
This was really too good not to repost in this thread.
“The standard for determining if a regulation burdened the free exercise of a religious adherent or organization was whether the law was neutral toward religion and generally applicable, lacking any pretext designed to obscure a hostility toward religious practice. The court even stated that to permit otherwise under the First Amendment “would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself.”
“The author of this religion-destroying opinion? Noted Catholic Antonin Scalia.”
“And you know what? This makes perfect sense. If a private citizen or organization can escape laws that incidentally burden their religious practices, religion becomes a literal “Get Out of Jail Free” card. The purpose of the Constitution wasn’t to subsume the rest of society to the wishes and whims of religious practitioners, it was to provide those practitioners a safe space to practice their faith free from direct government interference or mandates.”
“The burden on the Catholic Church is incidental, at best. The Church is required to provide health insurance coverage to their employees in the same manner as any other employer hiring the same people to perform the same jobs. That it offends them to do so is not unconstitutional.”
http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/thank-scalia-for-your-birth-control-seriously
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:00 pm
“sheep eating out of kettles bemoaning the fact that other sheep eat out of kettles…all the while shouting “Black””
with their mouths full???
how rude.
Catholics Are Religious Hypocrites Who Protect Pedophiles
February 9th, 2012
1:00 pm
The White House is “all talk, no action” on moving toward compromise?
Catholics are NOTORIOUS hypocrites.
They DO NEED to stop their priests from MOLESTING CHILDREN and own up to it when it happens.
The world would be a better place if they did.
barking frog
February 9th, 2012
1:01 pm
the constitution says “Congress shall make no law respecting the
establishment of religion nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof’
nothing about Church(Christian term) or State or separation thereof.
Thyra
February 9th, 2012
1:01 pm
Just to make it crystal clear:
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Brosephus
February 9th, 2012
1:01 pm
Or put more concisely–are the mainstream media stupid, or lying?
Are you saying the Lamestream Liberal Media are complicit in hiding information that would actually support that Keynesian, Kenyan Colonial, Marxist, Socialist, Half-Breed President that they helped install?
Adam
February 9th, 2012
1:02 pm
Joe: A much better way of putting how I feel about it. Thank you for this article.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
1:03 pm
I am Catholic and left the church so I better take a break on this one.
Rebar
February 9th, 2012
1:04 pm
I think they are forgetting what Christ said, “Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasars’”
Peadawg
February 9th, 2012
1:06 pm
Rebar
February 9th, 2012
1:04 pm
He also said “do unto others before they do it to you”…or something like that
.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
1:07 pm
The child abuse stuff need not even enter into it.
Why not? That’s why the Newtonian crowd gets no quarter from me. People who want to use force against you while wallowing in their own mire are dangerous. Why shouldn’t we call them out? They’re trying to argue it’s “not moral.” Well, forgive me if I deny them the woe-is-I vapors.
“You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you will see clearly enough to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
–Thomas Jefferson
Mr_B
February 9th, 2012
1:07 pm
“ObamaCare says that I, as an employer, may not choose to not fund abortion pills. That is manifestly a threat to my right to worship, to live my right as close to the Godly example as I can. Leftists are the threat.”
That’s exactly right, Rags, just as you as an employer cannot refuse to hire someone based on their skin color or gender simply because your personal belief is that those folks are in some way inferior. You can however choose not to offer your service to the public, IF it’s that big an issue with you.
No one’s religion is being trampled on until and unless the state requires that YOU use contraseptive or abortion services that you don’t want.
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
1:08 pm
Obama can run from this but he can’t hide. The administration is attempting to back peddle but they know as they back peddle that if they go too far back the left is right behind them with their pitch forks at the ready. Incompetence is what put the administration into this position. Even the democrats are split on this issue. Maybe now on second thought the 012 national election may not be all that close.
Finn McCool
February 9th, 2012
1:08 pm
During the Bush years, Guantanamo was the core symbol of right-wing radicalism and what was back then referred to as the “assault on American values and the shredding of our Constitution”: … But now that there is a Democrat in office presiding over Guantanamo and these other polices — rather than a big, bad, scary Republican — all of that has changed,
http://www.salon.com/2012/02/08/repulsive_progressive_hypocrisy/
funny how that happens so frequently…
stands for decibels
February 9th, 2012
1:08 pm
I think they are forgetting what Christ said, “Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasars’”
I think He also mentioned a tip for the driver/delivery-guy.
Kentucky Jacket
February 9th, 2012
1:10 pm
I am misunderstanding this? I read the above to mean that the Catholic Biships are prohibiting that contraception be publically funded, not that it be prohibited…
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
1:10 pm
getalife
February 9th, 2012
11:44 am
“This is what happens when the economy improves .”
“They can’t beat him on the economy or national security so all that is left is social issues.”
I needed a good laugh. Thanks getalife. Soooo this is what happens when the economy improves? Are we talking about the economy that grew an embarrassingly paltry 1.7% last year? That economy? My God you guys are funny. One month of good hiring 257,000 and you act like we’ve had the kind of economic growth we had under Reagan.
“The CBO study also predicts modest economic growth of 2 percent this year and forecasts that the unemployment rate will be 8.9 percent on Election Day. That is based on an assumption that President Barack Obama will fail to win renewal of payroll tax cuts and jobless benefits by the end of next month.”
An economic forecast of a whopping 2% and the libs think we are in a goldilocks economy or something? Bizarre. Dear God these people can be brainwashed so easily. Lemme guess- in the world of the Obamabots 2.5-3% economic growth would be considered phenomenal growth under Obama. God help us from the buffoonery of the mindless minions of the kook left.
HDB
February 9th, 2012
1:11 pm
Do the Bishops expect ALL of the nation to believe as they do as Catholics: can’t get nun….can’t see nun…..can’t be nun…..won’t get nun…….:)
Mant think the Catholic Church is still caught looking for the holy grail….and they’re making this argument into another quest!! If the Church is acting as an employer, shouldn’t they have to follow employment LAW?? 28 states….including Georgia….have this as a part of employment law…and not a peep! Many Catholic institutions, like Georgetown University, are following this aspect of employment law….so is there another omnious reason that the Bishops are screaming….and is anyone afraid to call the Bishops out on it????
reeses pieces
February 9th, 2012
1:11 pm
You got your sexual chocolate in my dogma, no you got your dogma in my sexual chocolate….
barking frog
February 9th, 2012
1:11 pm
the Bishops and all religions who are fundamentally opposed
to birth control should quit trying to hide behind the religious
constitutional amendment and just lobby the Congress like
the other lobbyists, you know a free trip to somewhere, maybe
forever…
Fred (I need a pill)
February 9th, 2012
1:11 pm
So what is being said that is new from the last thread? Anything? Bueller?
Finn McCool
February 9th, 2012
1:11 pm
“you can have my condom when you pry it from my cold, dead hand”
LOL
Jefferson
February 9th, 2012
1:12 pm
Rag I think the gov’t is out to get you, do you ?
Fred (I need a pill)
February 9th, 2012
1:13 pm
Whoops. I used a typo’ed email.
Kamchak
February 9th, 2012
1:13 pm
“Nobody puts Baby in a corner.”
– Thomas Jefferson
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 9th, 2012
1:13 pm
Well, seems to me this is all overblown. Everybody knows the SC is going to declare Obamacare unconstitutional. Then we can go back to saying I got mine and if you don’t have yours it’s because of your Bad Choices and you should go out and find a job that offers health insurance. So this Bishop needs to relax and give the SC a few more months. We’ve got five godly Republican judges up there and only four heathen librul judges. Five beats four every time.
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:13 pm
The people who are angry that the Catholics (of which I’m not one) want no contraception in the bill because they are ‘pushing their beliefs’ (they are) are the same people who want to push their beliefs on the Catholics and make them provide this coverage at their hospitals and such.
It’s funny really.
Brosephus
February 9th, 2012
1:13 pm
During the Bush years, Guantanamo was the core symbol of right-wing radicalism and what was back then referred to as the “assault on American values and the shredding of our Constitution”: … But now that there is a Democrat in office presiding over Guantanamo and these other polices — rather than a big, bad, scary Republican — all of that has changed,
I’d answer that by saying that, since Obama took office, I don’t recall a single detainee transfer INTO Guantanamo. I don’t recall any significant captures on the battlefield either. If Congress wouldn’t allow Guantanamo to be closed down, Obama’s drone policy has pretty much shut down the admissions desk anyway.
Fred (I need a pill)
February 9th, 2012
1:13 pm
Jefferson
February 9th, 2012
1:12 pm
Rag I think the gov’t is out to get you, do you ?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Holy Christ on a crutch, why would they WANT him? Do YOU?
TBone
February 9th, 2012
1:13 pm
Intrusions on any segment of our society equal a control-freak nature demonstrated by this administration. Those willing to sacrifice their liberties for their security will soon find they have neither. If your security is tied to making as many babies scarce then God help you.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:13 pm
“Rag I think the gov’t is out to get you, do you ?”
heehee
and tin foil sales SKYROCKET
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
1:14 pm
“You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you will see clearly enough to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
–Thomas Jefferson
I further predict that this future epidemic of lame quotes on my behalf can be attributed to liberal sheeple – Thomas Jefferson
Fred (I need a pill)
February 9th, 2012
1:15 pm
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:13 pm
The people who are angry that the Catholics (of which I’m not one) want no contraception in the bill because they are ‘pushing their beliefs’ (they are) are the same people who want to push their beliefs on the Catholics and make them provide this coverage at their hospitals and such.
It’s funny really.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Are you trying to tell me that Catholic hospitals get ZERO Government money?
barking frog
February 9th, 2012
1:15 pm
USinUK, you don’t need to wear a condom on your hand…unless
it’s for disease protection
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:15 pm
Don’t tell me what to do with my body BUT let me tell you who you have to provide abortifants to…..
Jay
February 9th, 2012
1:16 pm
Kentucky, the issue is not about funding, but about whether contraceptives ought to be part of required health-insurance coverage along with mammograms, prostate tests, etc.
Granny Godzilla
February 9th, 2012
1:17 pm
As Catholic with 55 years of experience dealing with the RCC, I feel comfortable telling the US Conference of Bishops to bite me.
30 years ago this week, they attempted to prevent me from having a tubal ligation after the birth of Zillette #2.
Seems two life threatening C-sections were under their minimum.
They required 3.
Told them to bite me then and am doing it again now.
We all know the Roman Catholic Church is not without sin – and they are
using this as a distraction.
frank burnsf
February 9th, 2012
1:17 pm
What sort of religious freedom is involved here? The freedom of bishops to make their employees’ health choices? There is no issue of conscience here — the bishops provide a pay package, which the workers earn through their work — it includes both money and insurance — and then the workers (adults) make their own moral choices how to spend the money or use the insurance. These bishops are vastly overblowing the issue. They are concerned about a hypothetical mote in their eye, when there are actually real planks in there (and that’s not me who is saying that).
Jay
February 9th, 2012
1:17 pm
And Fred, it was new to me at least that the bishops aren’t just insisting that church-related agencies be exempted, but that the requirement be abolished for everybody, regardless of church affiliation.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
1:17 pm
Kamchak
February 9th, 2012
1:13 pm
“Nobody puts Baby in a corner.”
– Thomas Jefferson
Once the first lemming goes over the cliff the rest follow suit.
Once the first sheep is led to the slaughterhouse the rest follow suit.
Once a lib makes the first silly Thomas Jefferson quote the rest of the sheeple follow suit
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:17 pm
Fred,
I’m not making any claim of the sort. Just providing some humor to my day.
I have no idea if Catholic hospitals get federal funds or not. However, I do find it humorous that the high and mighty will push their beliefs on the Catholics but don’t want any push back ever, anytime.
If Obama hadn’t pushed this on them then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
JohnnyReb
February 9th, 2012
1:17 pm
Let me see; Obama started this mess but Conservatives were waiting to use it to abolish insurance provided contraceptives. Right.
barking frog
February 9th, 2012
1:17 pm
Seems to me conservatives do not like to quote Thomas
Jefferson or allow anyone else to quote him.
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
1:18 pm
You don’t believe in contraception? then feel free to not use it. but you do not have the right to dictate that belief to your employees.
And if that was what was happening, then I’d be on your side, USinUK. No one is being denied the right to purchase contraception on their own. The issue is employers being forced to pay for it. Although this is being framed as a religious issue since the Catholic Church is involved, the larger point has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with free commerce. Aas a free individual, I should have the right to offer whatever insurance coverage I thought was best for my emloyees. If the employees don’t like it, they can purchase their own policy.
Finn McCool
February 9th, 2012
1:18 pm
Chris said “turn the other cheek…
…so that I may kiss it, too.”
scrappy
February 9th, 2012
1:18 pm
Kentucky Jacket
February 9th, 2012
1:10 pm
I am misunderstanding this? I read the above to mean that the Catholic Biships are prohibiting that contraception be publically funded, not that it be prohibited…
Yes, you are. It has nothing to do with public funds.
They want BC to not be a required coverage by all insurance entities.
True, it would not prohibit it, it would just make it so that women have to pay out of their own pocket instead of it being covered by insurance.
Fred (I need a pill)
February 9th, 2012
1:19 pm
Ok Jay, you have a point. Personally I would rather not have to pay for Gramps Viagra than worry about paying for Wilma’s birth control pills…………
Kamchak
February 9th, 2012
1:20 pm
“It’s not me, it’s you.”
– Thomas Jefferson
Finn McCool
February 9th, 2012
1:21 pm
“Nobody puts Ricky Santorum in the corner!”
~ Ricky Santorum
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:21 pm
“Don’t tell me what to do with my body BUT let me tell you who you have to provide abortifants to…..”
no egg … no zygote …
that’s how The Pill rolls …
so all your talk of “abortifacients” are lies.
but thanks for playing
barking frog
February 9th, 2012
1:21 pm
Bruno, 1:18, could you also choose which employees to cover?
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
1:21 pm
Bruno — “Aas a free individual, I should have the right to offer whatever insurance coverage I thought was best for my emloyees. If the employees don’t like it, they can purchase their own policy.”
And what if the state doesn’t like it?
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:22 pm
Can’t we just get back to minors being able to have abortions without their parents consent? Let’s push that on everybody too. I have no rights to know what my own minor children are doing. Who do I think I am, their parent?
At school you can’t take an ibuprofen without it but there’s nothing political going on with the abortion……….
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
1:22 pm
During the Bush years, Guantanamo was the core symbol of right-wing radicalism and what was back then referred to as the “assault on American values and the shredding of our Constitution”:
Speaking of the war, Guantanamo, the Patriot Act… Whatever happened to code pink, the patriot act protesters, the anti-war protesters??? Where dey at? Seems like they all but disappeared on jan. 20,2009. Are they hiding under W’s bed? Where did they all go? Did they get lost on the way to their protests? Were they ever really anti war, anti Guantanamo, and anti-patriot act? Or just anti-Bush? Where dey at??? Ya’ll liberals need to file several thousand missing persons reports. Better git to work.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:23 pm
“I should have the right to offer whatever insurance coverage I thought was best for my emloyees”
gee, thanks DAD!
can we stay up late on Friday to watch scary movies??? can we? can we? can we, huh??
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
1:23 pm
The common thread among various denominations is the federal governments intrusion into religious doctrine and where that could lead further down the road. As for the Obamacare mandate itself, forcing religious institutions to provide abortion pills puts this issue way over the top for some non-Catholic denominations like Baptists and Methodists.
Normal
February 9th, 2012
1:24 pm
Send ‘em a massage, I did…
http://usccb.org/
under “contact us”
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:24 pm
USink,
If they don’t want to provide it because of their beliefs but you want to make them provide it because of your beliefs then I think we are still playing.
I’m not Catholic but I do find it humorous how many will force something on someone else without blinking an eye and then get all huffy when it’s turned back on them.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
1:24 pm
No one is being denied the right to purchase contraception on their own. The issue is employers being forced to pay for it.
OH THE HUMANITY
getalife
February 9th, 2012
1:24 pm
doomy is the only one talking about the economy.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
1:25 pm
Whatever: No one is being forced to actually USE contraception, just that coverage for it be included in all health insurance plans.
stands for decibels
February 9th, 2012
1:25 pm
No one is being denied the right to purchase contraception on their own.
I think Amanda Marcotte might’ve been thinking of buffoonery like Bruno’s when she wrote:
15% more of men think of contraception as a sex toy. You can just hear the gears grinding in this 15%: “Why should I have to pay into insurance so she gets her contraception covered? It’s not like I’m using it. Where’s my fair share? When are they going to start paying for my porn? Pout. Whine. Boo hoo.”
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
1:25 pm
The sheeple do loves they thomas jefferson quotes they do. Reminds me of my 8 year old niece telling knock knock jokes- Cept that she was funnier.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:26 pm
“If they don’t want to provide it because of their beliefs but you want to make them provide it because of your beliefs then I think we are still playing.”
dearheart, providing insurance /= forcing the pill down their throats … or yours
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
1:26 pm
Once a lib makes the first silly Thomas Jefferson quote the rest of the sheeple follow suit
We’re just trying to pass time while waiting for you cons to tell us why you’ve been entirely unconcerned about 28 states (including godly conservative Jawja) requiring this coverage, but Obama brings it up and your heads explode.
It’s not our fault hypocrites are boring conversationalists.
Finn McCool
February 9th, 2012
1:26 pm
Thulsa, code pink is still in the news on regular basis. Fox News hates those people.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
1:26 pm
Doom: Knock knock
“Who’s there?”
Doctor.
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:27 pm
Adam,
If the Catholics have to buy it (against their own beliefs) then I can see why they are upset. Who are you or I to tell them they have to purchase items that violate their beliefs?
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
1:28 pm
From below:
Thanks for the compliment, but I don’t think your fellow conservatives see me as one of they guys.
Brosephus–The Republican Big Tent is ready when you are.
On a serious note, I heard your complaint that you perceive the righties to be reaching out to racists. If that element is there within the Repubs, I oppose it, and think it’s a shame if that keeps you or any other good thinking person to at least look at the platform and see if it matches your own views. The solution to the racial “code-talkers” is enhanced presence by minorities within the party. That would solve that nonsense overnight. It’s a lot easier to talk bad about someone whn they’re not there. For all his faults, I admired Maynard Jackson for making a point to visit Carey’s Bar in Marietta in the 1980s after he heard they had racist songs on their jukebox. He and his crew took the place over for an evening, shaming the owners with their presence.
Brosephus
February 9th, 2012
1:28 pm
I further predict that this future epidemic of lame quotes on my behalf can be attributed to liberal sheeple – Thomas Jefferson
Nah bro, gotta give credit where credit is due. The entire series of quotes can be attributed to two “conservatives” here and everyone else only got in after the fact. It really is a conservative thing.
Stephenson Billings
January 18th, 2012
12:08 pm
“A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have.” – Thomas Jefferson
12:09 pm
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not – Thomas Jefferson
When the blog host attempted to correct the person in the error of their ways, a second poster jumped into the fray.
John Galt
January 18th, 2012
12:25 pm
JAY- Jefferson did say “The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”
That is well-cited so you ignored that one.
Which was followed up with this now classic reply…
John Galt
January 18th, 2012
12:43 pm
I have sources saying Jefferson DID say that.
But even if he didn’t, it is obviously true.
Therefore, we have John Galt to thank for the Bookman Jefferson Quote Game™ and not some liberal as you think. Without the entertaining plethora of pseudo-conservatives trotting through here, there would be little to no entertainment. However, they do tend to drag down the image of the more thoughtful and articulate conservatives IMHO.
Fred (I need a pill)
February 9th, 2012
1:28 pm
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
1:18 pm
You don’t believe in contraception? then feel free to not use it. but you do not have the right to dictate that belief to your employees.
And if that was what was happening, then I’d be on your side, USinUK. No one is being denied the right to purchase contraception on their own. The issue is employers being forced to pay for it. Although this is being framed as a religious issue since the Catholic Church is involved, the larger point has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with free commerce. Aas a free individual, I should have the right to offer whatever insurance coverage I thought was best for my emloyees. If the employees don’t like it, they can purchase their own policy.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That sounds all well and good on the radio and on bumper stickers Bruno but what about the reality of the situation? Have you priced “personal” insurance? It IS unaffordable to the average American. I know Rush can afford it with his 100+ million dollar signing bonus, but others can’t. You are much to intelligent to say something like that or argue that insurance has been geared towards individuals in OUR working lifetime.
Yeah, I’m all FOR individual policies. But that ain’t happening. I’m for Doing away with federal interference with our schools but that’s a pipe dream to. We have to deal with the REALITIES of situations, and the reality of THIS situation is the Catholic Church trying to hold people’s health as hostage to further their whacked out crazy agenda.
You know this and be honest, had this come up under the Bush admin you would be arguing the other way (the RIGHT way lol).
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:28 pm
USink,
Forcing the Catholics to buy it is against their beliefs no matter who takes it or doesn’t take it. I still don’t see why you think you have the right to force them to do so.
Granny Godzilla
February 9th, 2012
1:28 pm
The sheeple do loves they thomas jefferson quotes they do. Reminds me of my 8 year old niece telling knock knock jokes- Cept that she was funnier.
- Thomas Jefferson
Normal
February 9th, 2012
1:28 pm
Recon,
It is not federal intrusion that makes, in this case, the Catholic Church to think that they have the right to mandate what all of us should or should not do. They are better off tending to their own flock and get out of the rest of our lives. Why do you want the government not to tell you what to do, but are willing to let some Priest tell you what to do?
Misty Fyed
February 9th, 2012
1:28 pm
The bishops have it all wrong…. We should be pushing for mandatory birth control for all liberals…After a generation, there won’t be a need for compromise.
Jack
February 9th, 2012
1:28 pm
Free contraception devices for everyone. I’ll pay my share of the cost if a “check-off box” appears on the 1040 like the one for the Presidential Election Campaign
Kentucky Jacket
February 9th, 2012
1:29 pm
Jay, Thanks for the clarification.
I understand but fail to grasp (maybe a failure on my part) that there is a big difference though. The proposal is that contraceptives are forced into either private health insurance companies, or into the publically funded government coverage. Either way, many are being forced to pay for someting that they feel is morally wrong.
And I understand the opposing arguement, that many feel war is morally wrong, so should they have to pay taxes for it?
I don’t know the answer, but this is the form of big government that I fear, because the more that the government provides, the more control is exercised on the people. When I am responsible for myself, and eat nothing but fried red meat, I reap the consequesnces. But the more that the government is responsible for me (health care, etc), then the more my fellow citizens are, and thus they have much more control over my actions because at that point it DOES affect them.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:29 pm
cast in point … I had US insurance for years … never once bought Viagra (despite it being covered)
see how that works?
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
1:29 pm
Whatever — “If the Catholics have to buy it (against their own beliefs) then I can see why they are upset. Who are you or I to tell them they have to purchase items that violate their beliefs?”
Adam’s just a guy. However, Antonin Scalia is a Supreme Court justice, and he says tuff darts.
http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/thank-scalia-for-your-birth-control-seriously
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
1:29 pm
getalife,
I don’t think Jay’s topic is the economy. It would be nice if we could discuss more the CBOs projections for 2012 economic growth and unemployment numbers. But if the sheeple are smart they’ll stick to social issues and avoid talk of the economy- and in particular Obama’s dismal economy over the entirety of his failed presidency.
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:29 pm
Fred,
Thank you for deciding who has ‘whacked out crazy agendas’. Please come see me and tell me how I should live, too. I’m already excited to know that you have it all figured out and will fix everyone’s agenda so they can be just like you.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:30 pm
“We should be pushing for mandatory birth control for all liberals…After a generation, there won’t be a need for compromise.”
some of the most liberal people I know were raised by GOPpers …
be careful what you wish for, m’dear …
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
1:30 pm
Despite all their whines and protests, the fact is that these matters have been effectively litigated and the Catholic Church lost:
New York’s Catholic Charities of Albany, et al v. Gregory V. Serio saw ten Catholic and Baptist organizations (including one Baptist church) challenging the state’s Women’s Health and Wellness Act, which mandated insurance coverage for contraceptives in addition to other women’s health services. According to the suit filed in 2002, the plaintiffs argued that the restrictive requirement infringed on their religious freedoms as enshrined by both the US Constitution and New York Constitution. In 2003, however, the New York Supreme Court dismissed the complaint, granting summary judgment in the defendant’s favor and upholding the act as constitutional. The groups then appealed, and in early 2006, a divided appellate division affirmed the original decision. Appealing once more, the New York Court of Appeals affirmed the decision once again later that year, preserving WHWA as constitutional as applied to the plaintiffs. The US Supreme Court decided not to consider the challenge in 2007.
deegee
February 9th, 2012
1:30 pm
If Catholic bishops could marry and raise a family they would be handing out birth control pills like they were communion wafers.
Misty Fyed
February 9th, 2012
1:31 pm
Fred. you do need a pill. You have no right to force your belief on your employer.
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:31 pm
Joe,
Is the Court says it’s ok then it is the law of the land I suppose but that still doesn’t mean I have to approve of it.
I suppose you like everything the Court decides?
Normal
February 9th, 2012
1:32 pm
Jack
February 9th, 2012
1:28 pm
Jack,
Then that would be the Presidential Erection Campaign…
stands for decibels
February 9th, 2012
1:32 pm
“How are the US Conference of Catholic Bishops like a pygmy tribe? Well, one is a cunning bunch of runts…”
–Thomas Jefferson
getalife
February 9th, 2012
1:32 pm
doomy,
This issue will be settled with a compromise.
You got nothing to run on.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
1:32 pm
Thank you granny. I forgot to sign Mr. Jefferson’s name to that post. So where are we at on the over under of how many times today the sheeple will wear out Jefferson’s name? I was thinking 50 would be a nice over/under number.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
1:33 pm
***Update****
Update to JAy’s link to Mississippi legislature’s bill to rename the Gulf of Mexico. Google just stepped in with a better off and obtained the naming rights! “The Gulf of Google”
or, more specifically “Teh Gulf of Google”
Normal
February 9th, 2012
1:33 pm
Anyway, who needs Viagra when you have spray starch and tongue depressors for splints?
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
1:33 pm
It is unreal to me that there are still people fighting against the use of contraception. I thought that debate was over and settle long ago. Polls show Americans are vastly in favor of contraception. Should not even be an issue. People like Santorum that are against it should be voted out of voice. Oh, he was. Well, he should not be voted back in.
Mick
February 9th, 2012
1:34 pm
usinuk
It may be cold in merry old england, but you are smokin hot today!!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
1:34 pm
Joe, you may find this discuss from September 30, 2011 helpful: Religious Exemptions and Contraceptive Coverage: How Far Can Denial Go and Still Be Constitutional?
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:34 pm
Mick – it’s the oatmeal chocolate chip cookies I made …
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
1:35 pm
The last poll I saw on this issue had those in favor of the mandate at around 38% and those opposed at around 50%. Until such time as the administration unveils a specific compromise offer, I don’t think attempting to change the argument by painting the Catholic Bishops as making unreasonable demands will get much traction among voters who’re opposed.
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:35 pm
Oscar,
Americans can be in favor of whatever they want but that still doesn’t mean we have the right to force Catholics to purchase something they are not for.
This is what I mean. You’ll force your beliefs on whoever you think is wrong but ‘please don’t tell me what to do with my body!’ when the shoes on the other foot.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
1:35 pm
Looks like today the sheeple are on they thomas jefferson quotes like flies on sheet. Better raise the over/under number- Las Vegas bookie
Mick
February 9th, 2012
1:35 pm
Contraception today, contraception tomorrow, contraception forever!!
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
1:35 pm
That’s odd they quote him because Thomas Jefferson was a liberal.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
1:36 pm
Whatever — “Is the Court says it’s ok then it is the law of the land I suppose but that still doesn’t mean I have to approve of it.”
Of course. We’re all free to disagree with SCOTUS on individuals decisions or on points of law. However, at the end of the day, we’re obliged to comport ourselves in accordance with its decisions, like them or not.
“I suppose you like everything the Court decides?”
Not at all, but just like you, I have to abide by those decisions.
Brosephus
February 9th, 2012
1:36 pm
On a serious note, I heard your complaint that you perceive the righties to be reaching out to racists.
It’s not that all are doing it. The fact that a small group actively engage in that is enough to give me pause. Along the same lines, when you have people who pay lip servicd to “my” community but forget to do anything of substance after getting elected, that gives me reason to not support them either. I see things I agree with in both party platforms. I also see things I disagree with. I’m at the point now where I’m satisfied at being an individual free from having to conform to either party’s ideology and have to compromise who I am in the process.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:37 pm
poooooooooooooooooor Recon …
When she asked Catholics to rate their feelings about the policy of mandating inclusion of birth control in all insurance plans on a scale of one to ten – ten being most supportive – Lake found that 40 percent of Catholics an 8,9 or 10. Overall, 51 percent rated it in the 6-10 range, with Catholics giving the policy an average rating of somewhere around six. That wasn’t a slam dunk – but it reflected the general Catholic split on Obama in general.
http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/02/catholics-backed-birth-control-mandate-poll-showed-114020.html
so, your stats??? not so much …
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
1:37 pm
Polls show Americans are vastly in favor of contraception.
Reality never factors into GOP thought. Besides, did all those so-called Americans polled show their birth certificates?!?
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:38 pm
Joe,
I do abide but if a law violated a religious belief of mine then I would not follow it. I understand there are consequences and I would have to abide by those as well.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:39 pm
more stat-y fun …
In fact, Catholics are more likely than Americans in general (52 to 49 percent) to say that religiously affiliated employers should have to provide contraception coverage, according to the PRRI survey.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/catholics-support-white-house-contraception-mandate/2012/02/07/gIQAXXu1wQ_story.html
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
1:40 pm
KUTGF — thanks very much for that. That writer did an excellent job on that piece, IMO.
I think I shall bookmark her profile and read more of her work this weekend.
Josey Whales
February 9th, 2012
1:40 pm
Women on birth control, good times
Women not on birth control, I’m working late
- Thomas Jefferson
stands for decibels
February 9th, 2012
1:41 pm
Shhh, UnU. They hate it when you point out that the vast majority of Americans support reproductive rights that utterly belies the crappy legislative support provided by our (allegedly) representative democracy…
http://pollingreport.com/abortion2.htm
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
1:41 pm
JohnnyReb – “Obama started this mess”
Yes, Obama and the other 28 states that already have this provision. As well as Mitt Romney when he created Romneycare which this is based on. But yeah, it’s ALL Obama.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:41 pm
“I do abide but if a law violated a religious belief of mine then I would not follow it. I understand there are consequences and I would have to abide by those as well.”
WHAT AN EFFING LOAD OF BOLLOCKS
the fact of the matter is that this has NOTHING whatsoever to do with most people’s religious beliefs.
I’d stake every penny in my wallet on the fact that the majority of people who are agin’ it are agin’ it because it came from THIS White House.
(evidence? they don’t seem to care that there is a state mandate in GA that does the exact same thing)
Normal
February 9th, 2012
1:42 pm
Off topic, but I’m beginning to like Wisconsin…
————————————————————————————————–
The National Campaign to End Corporate Personhood and Demand Democracy!
FOR RELEASE: February 9, 2012
WI STATE LEGISLATORS INTRODUCE MOVE TO AMEND RESOLUTION
Resolution Puts Congress on Notice that It Has One Year to Send Amendment to States for Ratification
MADISON – Two legislators began the process of overturning the United States Supreme Court decision in the Citizens United case shortly after the two-year anniversary of the decision that created corporate personhood for the purpose of political speech.
State Representative Mark Pocan (D-Madison) and State Representative Chris Taylor (D-Madison) today introduced a resolution that calls for an amendment the United States Constitution to overturn the court ruling. If Congress fails to act, the resolution further calls for a National Constitutional Convention under Article V of the United States Constitution.
“Corporations aren’t people and they shouldn’t be given the constitutional right to buy elections,” said Pocan. “This is the people’s government, not the corporation’s government. Corporations shouldn’t have the right to usurp individual rights to free speech.”
Additionally, the legislators argued the court ruling should be overturned because corporations are not mentioned in the US Constitution and the people have never bestowed constitutional rights upon corporations.
“Corporations don’t enjoy other individual rights such as the right to bear arms or the right to vote, so they shouldn’t also enjoy the right to free speech,” said Taylor. “I am proud to join this national effort right here in Wisconsin.”
The resolution is part of a national movement associated with Move to Amend. The organization has worked with several municipalities to pass advisory referenda and is now taking the fight to state legislatures. Voters in Madison and Dane County have each passed advisory referenda supporting the overturn of the Citizens United decision with 84 percent and 78 percent respectively.
“Citizens across the country are putting Congress and the Supreme Court on notice that an amendment is coming. Legislatures can either join the Movement to Amend or get out of the way,” stated Kaitlin Sopoci-Belknap of Move to Amend. “Americans of all political persuasions are on board with an amendment to put We the People in charge of our government, not corporations. It is great to have two champions of the people like Pocan and Taylor step up to join the cause.”
Move to Amend has a goal to get 50 towns and cities to qualify their resolution on the ballot this November. Residents in West Alis, WI and Corvallis, OR have already qualified. Signature drives have begun in several Illinois towns, Mendocino County, CA and Salt Lake City, UT.
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:42 pm
Stands,
Why do I have to hate it that other people may disagree with me? Why can’t I stand for what I want and you stand for what you want?
Do you hate it when the majority disagrees with you?
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:42 pm
dB – what can I say?? I’m a fact-based person …
it’s how I roll
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
1:43 pm
“Why do you want the government not to tell you what to do, but are willing to let some Priest tell you what to do?”
Normal, that’s not the point. The Bishops aren’t advocating a ban on contraception. That’s left up to the choice of individuals regardless of their religious persuasion. The point is the federal governments unconstitutional interference in forcing the church to go against its doctrine. BTW…I’m not Roman Catholic.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
1:43 pm
Whatever — “I do abide but if a law violated a religious belief of mine then I would not follow it. I understand there are consequences and I would have to abide by those as well.”
I recognize and respect that, but exactly how is a religious belief being violated here? Nothing in the law compels or requires anyone to actually *use* any form of contraception whatsoever. It merely mandates that non-church employers include a certain array of women’s health services — including various forms of contraception — in their employee health insurance plans.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:43 pm
“Why can’t I stand for what I want and you stand for what you want?”
because what you stand for is denying people their rights to a legally available drug.
that’s why.
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
1:43 pm
Have you priced “personal” insurance? It IS unaffordable to the average American.
Fred–I have priced personal insurance, which is why I continue to choose to self-insure. I’ve gotten on my soapbox enough to explain why insurance is sky-high, though the Free Lunch Crowd here doesn’t want to hear it. As long as they think someone else is paying for it, why worry about all the additional mandates put into insurance policies by the Feds. As long as it agrees with the political agenda, let’s keep our heads in the sand about the inevitable increase in costs.
can we stay up late on Friday to watch scary movies??? can we? can we? can we, huh??
Sorry, USinUK–It’s my side who’s arguing for freedom of choice, freedom from the Nanny State. It’s you and your political brethren who seem to know whats best for me, not the other way around.
TBone
February 9th, 2012
1:44 pm
As a recovering Catholic, I parted ways with them some time ago. However, I have always supported their respect for life. My sister was to be an abortion but has made her way through life as a beautiful child of God now for over 50 years. We as a society have cheapened life to the point of no return. Just look at the fate of our european friends with policy such as this.
Don't Forget
February 9th, 2012
1:44 pm
So, it seems that conservatives problem with planned parenthood ISN’T just about abortion as they have claimed all these years. Another lie exposed.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
1:45 pm
Recon -” forcing religious institutions to provide abortion pills puts this issue way over the top for some non-Catholic denominations like Baptists and Methodists”
Then you must really be pissed at Georgia, because it’s been in effect for 13 years.
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:45 pm
Usink,
It is not denying them anything. They can buy it all they want. I am advocating letting Catholics not provide what they don’t want to provide.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:45 pm
“The point is the federal governments unconstitutional interference in forcing the church to go against its doctrine.”
NO, it isn’t.
it’s requiring BUSINESSES that may be owned/operated by the Church to provide the same healthcare that other employees are required to cover.
Church employees are not affected by this legislation.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
1:45 pm
the federal governments unconstitutional interference
umm, the “unconstitionality” has yet to be decided, my friend.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:45 pm
“It is not denying them anything. They can buy it all they want. ”
it absolutely is – it’s denying them the coverage to a medication they are legally entitled to.
AmVet - Just say no to Republicans who obsess over you
February 9th, 2012
1:46 pm
What do you burn apart from witches? More witches! ~Thomas Jefferson
and
The church says that the earth is flat, but I know that it is round. For I have seen the shadow of the earth on the moon and I have more faith in the shadow than in the church. ~Ferdinand Magellan
You and me, brother.
500 years on and still these nuts are still trying to screw with people’s lives…
Normal
February 9th, 2012
1:46 pm
The point is the federal governments unconstitutional interference in forcing the church to go against its doctrine
That’s a load of bollocks. President Obama said he was willing to exclude businesses owned by Catholics if they disapproved, but the Bishops said no. The Catholic Church is trying to impose its beliefs onto everybody. That’s not good.
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:46 pm
Usink,
How are they being denied the drug? Don’t confuse coverage with the drug.
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
1:48 pm
because what you stand for is denying people their rights to a legally available drug.
You know, USinUk, we might get farther in our discussion here if you would frame the argument honestly. Not covering a drug through insurance is vastly different from denying someone the right to purchase it on their own. Is it so far out of your sense of what is normal for people to assume even a modicum of responsibility for themselves??
Guy Incognito
February 9th, 2012
1:48 pm
Doomy,
Gimme a C-note on the Over
Oh, “over.” That’s today’s racist Code Word. Remember conservative operatives.
Today when you say “over” it means (insert whatever your imaginations dreams up here)
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
1:48 pm
As a taxpayer, I am forced to pay for a lot of programs I don’t want or like. I pay my taxes and follow the law, while I am trying to get it changed.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
1:48 pm
Those of you who ant to let businesses decide what they will include and won’t include in their employees health care plan?
Get real. That sounds rosy until it’s the company YOU work for that does this. then you read the fine print and realize the plan consists of one thing – “Walk it off.”
Pregnant? Walk it off.
Got AIDS? Walk it off
Teeth hurt? You can guess what goes here…
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:48 pm
“Sorry, USinUK–It’s my side who’s arguing for freedom of choice, freedom from the Nanny State. It’s you and your political brethren who seem to know whats best for me, not the other way around.”
you were the one who was saying that you wanted to pick what was best for your employees.
the government is saying that it’s not right to deny coverage of birth control – nor is it right to deny employees coverage of a legal medication due to your religious beliefs.
equal access baby – not just a good idea, it’s the law!!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
1:48 pm
Contraceptive use is normal. It is used by 98 percent of sexually-active women in the United States at some point in their lives, including 98 percent of Catholic women; indeed many women rely on it for most of their reproductive lives. It is a public health issue, it is a medical issue, it is an individual health issue. Contraception is about maternal, infant and child health; it is about desired family size, family formation, and the most basic and profound choices individuals can make–whether, when and with whom to bear and raise a child. It is also about medically-indicated conditions which women face for which birth control is prescribed. It is a foundational issue for the social and economic participation of women. It is an individual human rights issue. And every domestic and international medical body with any legitimacy recognizes it as such. It is not about the religious freedom of religious
corporationsinstitutions a la Citizens United, but about the health and religious freedoms of individuals, the vast majority of whom clearly disagree with the teachings of the Catholic Church…The USCCB believes that everything from masturbation and the “spilling of seed,” to the use of contraception that prevents implantation of a fertilized egg is a sin and that contraceptives are abortifacients. It not only wants its own theologically-driven definition of when pregnancy begins, it wants that definition to override the actual medical definition for every woman in the United States….My religion may dictate that the earth is flat or the moon made of cheese, but I would be wrong in the eyes of geographers, astronomers, astronauts, and the vast majority of people; moreover, my request that the space shuttles and rockets be crafted like giant fondue pots to accommodate my belief would rightly be viewed as insane. …
The fight is about universities, hospitals and social service institutions which serve many people, employ many people, do not have as their primary purpose the inculcation of religious values, and which, by the way, collectively receive billions of dollars in tax payer funds, and in tax exemptions. Moreover, an increasing number of Catholic hospitals are ending their governing board affiliations with the Catholic Church but partnering in large systems with both Catholic and non-Catholic hospitals. http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2012/02/08/white-houses-dangerous-dance-with-contraceptive-mandate
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
1:49 pm
Brocephus,
Thanks for the update on where and when the Thomas Jefferson quotes came from. I was probably working that day.
Kinda sad though. I always knew the sheeple were anti-intellectual and especially anti-american but I wouldn’t have thought they would stoop to the level of mocking one of the great founders of this nation. Then again why should I be surprised?
Perhaps they would be more comfortable with Mao quotes since they would be more befitting the liberal mindset. Lemme get the libs started with a quote from one a their own.
“War is a continuation of politics, and there are at least two types: just (progressive) and unjust wars, which only serve bourgeois interests. While no one likes war, we must remain ready to wage just wars against imperialist agitations.”
Run with it libs. Run with it!
barking frog
February 9th, 2012
1:50 pm
This issue is about the government telling a business what it
must cover in employee insurance. Nothing more. If the
government can tell a business what to cover in insurance
then it can tell the business to buy insurance and individuals
too. like in individual mandate in ACA.
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
1:50 pm
it’s denying them the coverage to a medication they are legally entitled to.
And finally the “E” word rears its ugly head.
Wish I had more time to jaw, but back to work.
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
1:50 pm
The point is the federal governments unconstitutional interference in forcing the church to go against its doctrine
______
Like when the feds forced Morams to quit practicing poligomy and force the muslims to forego honor killings. Not to mention the snake handlers and people who want to kill and beat gays.
Obama is over
February 9th, 2012
1:50 pm
For all the folks who signed off on Pelosi’s notion that “you should just pass the Bill and learn what’s in it later,” this is the kind of detail that is going to continue to come to the surface over the next year in the 2200 page Obamacare legislation. Regardless of how you feel about contraception, pro-choice, pro-life, the Catholic Church, etc, the point here is that this legislation is a blatant intrusion into individual personal privacy by Big Government. As you point out, most insurance companies already cover contraception and maintain a balance with religious institutions by not forcing them to provide services that they may find offensive. The fact that Obama signed off on legislation trying to regulate church affiliated institutions with rules that are obviously fundamentally offensive to them is very short sighted and frankly, stupid. It should be no shock to anyone in the U.S., particularly a practicing Catholic like Joe Biden, that forcing these rules is going to create a very vocal response. I suppose that since Obama considers himself to be the 4th greatest President in history, then he is in a more powerful position than the Pope to guide his people.
Don't Forget
February 9th, 2012
1:50 pm
Government nanny bad. Church or company nanny good.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
1:51 pm
Recon – “The point is the federal governments unconstitutional interference in forcing the church to go against its doctrine.”
I guess your okay with the state doing it as long as it isn’t suggested by Obama.
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:51 pm
Oscar,
Mormons volunteered to quit polygamy to become a state (may say something about their faith that they were).
Beating gays violates their rights as does ‘honor killings’.
Not providing coverage of contraceptions does not violate their rights. They can still buy all they want.
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
1:52 pm
you were the one who was saying that you wanted to pick what was best for your employees
Insurance is a benefit, not a right. If you would start from a more honest point of view, then we could discuss the issue. I know how desperately you WISHED it was a right, but it’s not. Ditto for marriage.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:53 pm
“Not covering a drug through insurance is vastly different from denying someone the right to purchase it on their own”
there is no reason for insurance companies to NOT cover birth control – it’s been tested, it’s been approved and it’s been widely available for 50 years.
and, no, saying that “people can buy it out of their own pocket” doesn’t cut it – at a cost of $20+ / month, all you’re doing is discriminating against women based on … what? … what YOU think / what YOU believe.
that’s not what America stands for –
no one is forcing you to buy and use contraception – just to purchase an insurance policy that is fair for all your employees, regardless of their religious convictions.
Terrence
February 9th, 2012
1:53 pm
A woman’s choice trumps another individual’s conscientious objection?
All is fair in love and war? Love maybe, war not.
Let us know when Unitarians, Mennonites, Jehovah’s Witnesses & Seventh-day Adventists are forced to engage in combat during wartime.
TnRealist
February 9th, 2012
1:53 pm
From downstaris……
February 9th, 2012
1:38 pm
After wading through 10 pages of comments I find it interesting that no one has pointed our the options of the Catholic hospital and universities or other such organizations have to avoid complying with the state or federal madates to provide birth control or reproductive services to their employees.
(1) Decide to not offer any health care coverage (or)
(2) Become a self insured entity and forego any particpation of a health care insurance provider
If option 1 is selected I can see many employees deciding to seek employment elsewhere and if they select option 2 then as the employer they will have to pay for any covered medical procedures out of income.
But if their principles are that important then they should not have trouble deciding on which option to select to avoid “goverment attacks on their religion.”
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:54 pm
“Insurance is a benefit, not a right”
gah.
yet another example of what is WRONG with America.
first, you don’t want the government to provide health care because employers do.
now, employers are saying it’s a benefit, not a right, and we should be happy with what we get.
you want to see the lowest common denominator the country is heading to??? there it is, right there.
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
1:55 pm
poooooooooooooooooor USnowintheUK,
Yeah right…Politico. I won’t disparage their survey but if you asked Catholics along with many non-Catholics of faith and probably many others as well if they thought it was right for the federal government to mandate services that conflicted with a religious denominations doctrine that’s been practiced in this country under our Constitution since our beginning , they would say no it isn’t right. Politico didn’t ask that way.
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:55 pm
“all you’re doing is discriminating against women based on … what? … what YOU think / what YOU believe.
that’s not what America stands for – ”
All you’re doing is discriminating against Catholics based on….what?….what YOU think/what YOU believe.
that’s not what America stands for-
Whoops!
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
1:55 pm
Terrence — “A woman’s choice trumps another individual’s conscientious objection?”
Well, if you put it that way, sure. What conscientious objection could you possibly have that should be permitted to overrule, for example, my wife’s choice?
“Let us know when Unitarians, Mennonites, Jehovah’s Witnesses & Seventh-day Adventists are forced to engage in combat during wartime.”
Perhaps they’d be well advised to not volunteer for enlistment then. You know, considering that there hasn’t been a draft in 35+ years.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:55 pm
“Let us know when Unitarians, Mennonites, Jehovah’s Witnesses & Seventh-day Adventists are forced to engage in combat during wartime.”
their taxes are forced to pay for arms and the armed forces – you don’t think they have a problem with that???
barking frog
February 9th, 2012
1:55 pm
Many employers do not have employee insurance coverage, including
churches.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
1:56 pm
I’ll stick to quoting Jesus so I don’t offend Thulsa by quoting Thomas Jefferson.
“Who ate all those fishes and loaves? They were for the party.”
~ Chris
TnRealist
February 9th, 2012
1:56 pm
In other words, religous entities please put YOUR money up to have what you want for your employees and your beliefs.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
1:57 pm
“As long as they think someone else is paying for it, why worry about all the additional mandates put into insurance policies by the Feds”
And therein lies the problem. As long as someone thinks the govt, or an insurance co., or any 3rd party is paying for it costs will continue to rise. But despite this obvious common sense rule of thumb you will have libs with their rights revolution thinking that they have a right to this, that, and the other- paid for by some 3rd party of course.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:57 pm
Fnn – 1:56 –
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
1:57 pm
I’m still waiting on Recon et al.. to tell us all how indignant he was when Georgia passed this very same requirement 13 years ago. I guess Romney must have lost a lot of supporters as well since this the VERY SAME requirement he put into Romneycare. But hey, take your time, I’m retired, I have ALL day.
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
1:58 pm
and, no, saying that “people can buy it out of their own pocket” doesn’t cut it – at a cost of $20+ / month, all you’re doing is discriminating against women based on … what? … what YOU think / what YOU believe.
So now people paying for their own supplies constitutes discrimination??
USinUK–I’ve got to say, you’re really off your game today. If you could move past the entitlement mentality, you might see things more clearly.
barking frog
February 9th, 2012
1:58 pm
Finn McCool, Jesus’ other name isn’t Chris…
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
1:59 pm
B. Frog — “Finn McCool, Jesus’ other name isn’t Chris…”
Jesus Chris?
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:59 pm
“All you’re doing is discriminating against Catholics based on….what?….what YOU think/what YOU believe.”
dearheart – THAT is your problem – requiring EVERYONE to follow the SAME law is NOT discrimination.
in fact, it’s exactly the opposite:
dis·crim·i·na·tion
[dih-skrim-uh-ney-shuhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
an act or instance of discriminating.
2.
treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.
Libertarian
February 9th, 2012
2:00 pm
Why would anyone think its ok for the government to force an insurance company to provide free contraception? This is a great example of our government being overreaching.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
2:00 pm
“So now people paying for their own supplies constitutes discrimination??”
“People”????
ah, not. not “People”
WOMEN.
forcing WOMEN to buy a medication that is made for them and only them
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
2:00 pm
Do they pay for coverage of home delivery of said contraceptive devices? It’s so awkward and such a hassle to have to buy them at Walgreens.
Kamchak
February 9th, 2012
2:01 pm
“People try to put us d-down (Talkin’ ’bout my generation)
Just because we get around (Talkin’ ’bout my generation)”
– Thomas Jefferson
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
2:01 pm
Finn UnCool,
I’m not offended. I just think its sad to see folks mock one of the great thinkers of western democracy and one of our great founders. if you’re down with that then that’s all you sir.
But I am offended that the 6th grade jokes of our childhoods have more wit than the Thomas Jefferson quotes of the sheeple.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
2:01 pm
Bruno, you seem to be avoiding the issue of the thread. Why does the Catholic Church feel is may impose its religious belief on the entire nation?
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
2:01 pm
Usink,
Requiring everyone to follow the same law has been held to be discrimination in our country. Forcing pacifists to serve in the military for one. So there is precedent for the very thing you argue against.
Corey
February 9th, 2012
2:02 pm
Can religion and sexuality ever be reconciled? I hear Paul was not married and traveled with a man as his companion. …just sayin
Mick
February 9th, 2012
2:02 pm
frog
Jesus wasn’t turning water into grape juice either…
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
2:03 pm
Keep,
They do not have the ability to force their beliefs on an entire nation. Why can’t they at least be left alone in this? If Obama hadn’t stirred it up we wouldn’t even having this discussion.
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
2:03 pm
you want to see the lowest common denominator the country is heading to??? there it is, right there.
USinUK–I was raised to believe that self-reliance is a virtue. Obviously you feel differently. So, let’s make a deal. You keep your view, and I’ll keep mine. Just please show a little respect for those who think differently. That is (supposedly) a hallmark of Liberalism, no??
Bishop Patrick
February 9th, 2012
2:03 pm
While we bishops have little direct experience with birth control, we are certain of our position.
GOD WILLS IT.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
2:03 pm
Is it Kris?
I could just call him “The First and Original Sanctimonious Guy”
Loooooong before Ricky Santorum was ever born to save us all!
Talking Head
February 9th, 2012
2:04 pm
“dearheart – THAT is your problem – requiring EVERYONE to follow the SAME law is NOT discrimination.”
so I guess requiring everyone to show photo ID to vote would not be considered discriminatory since everyone would follow then? yes?
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
2:04 pm
Whatever — “Requiring everyone to follow the same law has been held to be discrimination in our country. Forcing pacifists to serve in the military for one. So there is precedent for the very thing you argue against.”
There’s no draft any longer, and there hasn’t been one since the mid-70s. Plus, pacifists in the military can obtain Conscientious Objector status; there’s a process for that.
So, to borrow your own words, there is precedent for the very thing you argue against.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
2:04 pm
Let us know when Unitarians, Mennonites, Jehovah’s Witnesses & Seventh-day Adventists are forced to engage in combat during wartime.
Let us know when Catholics are forced to use birth control, instead of having to PAY for it….just as Mennonites have to pay taxes for wars.
You really didn’t think that example through before opening your mouth, did you?
Fred (I need a pill)
February 9th, 2012
2:04 pm
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:29 pm
Fred,
Thank you for deciding who has ‘whacked out crazy agendas’. Please come see me and tell me how I should live, too. I’m already excited to know that you have it all figured out and will fix everyone’s agenda so they can be just like you.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Oh I don’t want you to be like me Whatever, I just want you to pull your head out of your ass. This isn’t 1800’s Ireland where the Catholic Church is telling the populace that can’t feed the mouth’s they have to continue having babies. This isn’t South and Central America where the Catholic Church is telling people to have babies they can not feed. This is AMERICA. One of the bertter educated (well maybe except for you) Countries on the face of the earth. A place where people can and DO choose when to have children because of the wonders of modern science.
A place where women with incapacitating menstrual cramps can take the pill for relief, well unless of course the Catholic Church has it’s way……………
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
2:04 pm
But I am offended
Well that does it…. if Doom is offended, well then what horrors are next? Oh the pout! Seems Doom has no problem offending with his posts but god forbid anyone offend him….
Those that cannot see shall be doomed to stupidity
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
2:05 pm
“I guess your okay with the state doing it as long as it isn’t suggested by Obama.”
Butch, you’re attempting to make an argument by introducing an entirely different one. I’m not going to go there, however, I will say that I’m personally not in disfavor of contraception. I’m in disfavor of abortion and the government forcing a religious institution to go against their church doctrine by providing free abortion pills or contraception. I haven’t read or heard anything about the State of Georgia forcing Catholic institutions or other religious institutions to provide contraception pills/devices much less abortion pills.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
2:05 pm
Libertarian – “This is a great example of our government being overreaching.”\
Glad to hear it, why don’t you provide us all with a copy of the letter you plan to send to the Georgia legislature demanding that they remove this provision. Afterall, isn’t 13 years of paying for contraception enough?
Thulsa Doom the bookie
February 9th, 2012
2:05 pm
Guy Incognito,
I got ya for a C-note on 50 lame Thomas Jefferson quotes. I was thinking about offering a prop bet on what would be the lamest of the Jefferson quotes. Problem is that there are soooo many to choose from. Sooooo many….
Fred (I need a pill)
February 9th, 2012
2:06 pm
Misty Fyed
February 9th, 2012
1:31 pm
Fred. you do need a pill. You have no right to force your belief on your employer.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I haven’t had an “employer” for over 20 years…………….
barking frog
February 9th, 2012
2:06 pm
Other news in Congress: The Republicans want to require drug
testing for unemployment benefits and the Democrats want to
cut unemployment benefits by six weeks to pay for continuing
the payroll tax cuts which give a 20 dollar a week pay increase to
someone earning 50,000.00 a year. Who knew the criminally
unemployed were costing the middle class so much and that
it was so important to both parties.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
2:06 pm
Mick – 2:02 – was it Ribena?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
2:06 pm
If Obama hadn’t stirred it up we wouldn’t even having this discussion.
Righttttttt….. it’s Obama’s fault. All was well before. Oh Obama has victimized us!
So why are you not telling the Catholic Church to back down to a position that does not impose its religion on everyone?
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
2:07 pm
“so I guess requiring everyone to show photo ID to vote would not be considered discriminatory since everyone would follow then? yes?”
Talking – and we all know equitably Jim Crow laws were administered …
stands for decibels
February 9th, 2012
2:07 pm
its sad to see folks mock one of the great thinkers of western democracy
“Hee hee. They really swallowed that ‘watering the tree of liberty’ BS of mine hook, line, and sinker! Sure is nice not to have to lift a finger to fight, myself. I’m feeling so good, I think I’ll call on that fiiiine Miss Sally to give me some a’ that brown sugar after dinner tonight.”
–Thomas Jefferson
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
2:07 pm
Recon – ” I haven’t read or heard anything about the State of Georgia forcing Catholic institutions or other religious institutions to provide contraception pills/devices much less abortion pills.”
It’s the same provision that states (including Georgia) have had for years. It only became an issue when Obama started talking about it. That’s why it’s so ridiculous for anyone to try and grand stand on the issue now. Where were all these voices of concern for the past decade?
Libertarian
February 9th, 2012
2:07 pm
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
2:05 pm
If that is true then I need a refund for the past 10 years that I’ve been paying for mine out of pocket…with no help from my insurance company. Even though your comment is unnecessarily snarky, I agree with your premise.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
2:08 pm
Recon – 1:55 – I provide you with 2 different surveys showing you the same thing and that’s the best you can come up with??? disparaging Politico???
paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaathetic.
jconservative
February 9th, 2012
2:08 pm
“Twenty-eight states, including conservative Georgia, have had laws on the books for years that require contraceptives be covered, with not a squeak of protest or complaint.”
Georgia Code – O.C.G.A. § 33-24-59.6 (2011)
c) Every health benefit policy that is delivered, issued, executed, or renewed in this state or approved for issuance or renewal in this state by the Commissioner on or after July 1, 1999, which provides coverage for prescription drugs on an outpatient basis shall provide coverage for any prescribed drug or device approved by the United States Food and Drug Administration for use as a contraceptive.
Note the exception: “…which provides coverage for prescription drugs…”.
A policy without a provision for drug coverage is not required to provide for contraceptive coverage.
This discussion” is not about contraceptives. Any female can go to any public health clinic and receive contraceptives free of charge.
This discussion is about the US Constitution: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”
The HHS decree prohibits the Catholic Church (among others) from the free exercise of its religion.
In other words the Catholic Church is free to worship as it pleases but is not free to practice its religion in the public arena. Catholics are free to worship God but are not free to obey his teachings.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
2:09 pm
Butch – 2:07 – which is exactly why I said that all this posturing has more to do with the fact that it came from the Obama white house than any BS about people’s “deeply held religious beliefs”
AmVet - Just say no to Republicans who obsess over you
February 9th, 2012
2:09 pm
The Roman Catholic Church is dying a slow, ugly death of it’s own making.
Since the 1960s, four American-born Catholics have left the church for every one who has converted, according to a 2009 Pew study. In 2008 alone, Catholic membership declined by 400,000. More than 1,000 parishes have closed since 1995, and the number of priests has fallen from about 49,000 to 40,000 during that same period. Some 3,400 Catholic parishes in the U.S. now lack a resident priest.
And the plethora and magnitude of the sex scandals has only accelerated the decline.
So long and thanks for all the fish…
Talking Head
February 9th, 2012
2:10 pm
““so I guess requiring everyone to show photo ID to vote would not be considered discriminatory since everyone would follow then? yes?”
Talking – and we all know equitably Jim Crow laws were administered …”
Classic liberal deflection in defeat.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
2:10 pm
so I guess requiring everyone to show photo ID to vote would not be considered discriminatory since everyone would follow then? yes?
By jove, I think he’s got it!
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
2:10 pm
“Catholics are free to worship God but are not free to obey his teachings.”
okay, I’ll play: show me where Christ had anything whatsoever to say about birth control.
AmVet - Just say no to Republicans who obsess over you
February 9th, 2012
2:10 pm
Oh and BTW,
Homie don’t play that. ~Tommy “The Clown” Jefferson
pat
February 9th, 2012
2:11 pm
Wow! Christian bigotry lives on unabated.
How about not mixing church and state? How about keeping the state out of church affairs. Oh what, so as long as obama does it it’s ok to to trample the rights of the church?
TaxPayer
February 9th, 2012
2:11 pm
What about my feelings! – Thomas “Doom and Gloom” Jefferson
Fred (I need a pill)
February 9th, 2012
2:11 pm
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
1:43 pm
As long as they think someone else is paying for it, why worry about all the additional mandates put into insurance policies by the Feds.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You bring up ANOTHER issue that bites my butt. I’ve said for years that the Feds need to either completely get the hell OUT of health care or take it over. This half and half crap where they pander to the highest bidder is for the birds.
Sorry I’m behind. I was reading the Mommania blog lol. Quite interesting today……….
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
2:11 pm
Talking – 2:10 – darlin, it’s the Jim Crow laws that are the reason people look at Voter ID laws with a jaundiced eye
precedent of abuse.
barking frog
February 9th, 2012
2:11 pm
Mick, 2:02, no he wasn’t acccording to the New Testament
if you believe it. They also list him as Christ not Chris like
Finn McCool.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
2:12 pm
In defense of the Catholic church, I will say that without them I could not have had the religous upbringing that I did. Of course, I’m Lutheran. Just sayin.
stands for decibels
February 9th, 2012
2:12 pm
A policy without a provision for drug coverage is not required to provide for contraceptive coverage.
But how many health insurance plans offered don’t include provisions for prescription drug coverage? Can’t imagine it’d be many. Back when I was paying my family’s health insurance entirely out of my own pocket, via a truly lousy high-deductable plan, there was prescription drug coverage. It sucked, but it was there.
Talking Head
February 9th, 2012
2:12 pm
“Wow! Christian bigotry lives on unabated.
How about not mixing church and state? How about keeping the state out of church affairs. Oh what, so as long as obama does it it’s ok to to trample the rights of the church?”
yeppers
TaxPayer
February 9th, 2012
2:12 pm
okay, I’ll play: show me where Christ had anything whatsoever to say about birth control.
I think it’s right there next to the section that talks about abortion but I could be mistaken.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
2:13 pm
TaxPayer – “I think it’s right there next to the section that talks about abortion but I could be mistaken.”
right after that LONG chapter about homosexuality
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
2:14 pm
pat – “Oh what, so as long as obama does it it’s ok to to trample the rights of the church?”
No one said that, but I suggest you write to the Georgia legislature and to the Romney campaign and inform them of your displeasure with them for having supported this very same requirement for the last 15 to 20 years.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
2:14 pm
Any female can go to any public health clinic and receive contraceptives free of charge.
No.
This has been another edition of “Menz Making An @$$ Out Of Themselves Thinking They Are Experts In Women’s Contraception.”
There’s a lot of that going around lately.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
2:14 pm
so, let’s see …
corporations are people.
hospitals and schools are the church.
and the door is ajar.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
2:14 pm
I think this whole brouhaha is just an attempt by Obama to steer our eyes away from the grossly depressing Republican primary season.
“Nothing to see here, folks. No, the democratic process isn’t always this sad…”
Kentucky Jacket
February 9th, 2012
2:15 pm
To me, this is above and beyond “religious discrimination” or “Forcing a thoecracy”. This is going to be the spirit of the battles that are waged in America as we move further along as a mixed capitalist society in regards to Federally concentrated power. We do things as a society to “protect” everyone, but it can put us in a bad situation. I don’t know contraception prices, but if prescription ones are reasonably expensive, as a society we have put people in a position of HAVING to have insurance to afford it. At the same time, we force people to pay for something that “beneifts” another individual (note individual, not society as a whole) that is counter to their conscience. Akin to allowing alcohol to be purchased with food stamps…I don’t drink to excess, but think people should be able to make up their own minds about it. however, should my tax $$ go to fund a behavior that is against my conscience?
There are no easy answers, because we are where we are, but I do think there is no happy medium. As a society, we either need to focus on more personal responsibility, or on more collective respobsibility, but we are at a spot in the middle now that is unacceptable to all…
And don’t get me wrong…I don’t think all personal or all collective is the answer, but I think to have any semblance of functionality, we have to move right or left…
Libertarian
February 9th, 2012
2:15 pm
“okay, I’ll play: show me where Christ had anything whatsoever to say about birth control.”
Its pretty irrelevant what “Christ” said. If my religion is to wear purple socks everyday I should be allowed to do it (according to the first amendment).
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
2:16 pm
and, with that …
I’m heading out into the cold …
“I’m gonna make like a banana and split” – Thomas Jefferson
Mick
February 9th, 2012
2:16 pm
usinuk
No, it was welch’s…
Thulsa Doom the bookie
February 9th, 2012
2:16 pm
Doomy is not just offended by stupid sheeple posts for their lameness. He’s also deeply hurt, saddened, and depressed over the complete lack of eloquence, originality, and the outright juvenality of them.
I have only myself to blame though for trying to hold the sheeple to reasonable expectatations of humor and wit. So I shouldn’t have been surprised when the lameness of their posts reached a new low.
I had forgotten about the liberal policies of reducing everything to its lowest common denominator whether it be education, debate, and now humor. Return to year zero as Pol Pot would say.
Oh well. I’ll just have to get over my melancholy and escape the librul’s pit of intellectual despair.
Corey
February 9th, 2012
2:17 pm
The U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission signed off Thursday on Atlanta-based Southern Co.’s request to build two 1,100-megawatt reactors at its Plant Vogtle site in Burke County. The first approval in decades.
The nerve of that socialist regime headed by Mr. Obama to grant approval to a southern based, red state, private sector energy company so they can create jobs, produce clean energy and keep energy costs down. The nerve!
TaxPayer
February 9th, 2012
2:17 pm
TaxPayer – “I think it’s right there next to the section that talks about abortion but I could be mistaken.”
right after that LONG chapter about homosexuality
That’s the one! Now what was that verse number. Where is scout when you need him.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
2:18 pm
jconservative — “The HHS decree prohibits the Catholic Church (among others) from the free exercise of its religion.”
I dont see anything in the Constitution about extending First Amendment rights to churches.
“In other words the Catholic Church is free to worship as it pleases but is not free to practice its religion in the public arena.”
I don’t see anything in the Constitution about churches having rights.
“Catholics are free to worship God but are not free to obey his teachings.”
Bulldada. Nothing we are discussing would force or compel anyone to use BC who doesn’t want to do so.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
2:18 pm
okay, I’ll play: show me where Christ had anything whatsoever to say about birth control.
I think it’s right there next to the section that talks about abortion but I could be mistaken.
No, its next to the part where he said we should put these three (oops), two stone tablets in every frickin public spot on the planet…..and totally ignore all 10 bulleted points.
Thulsa Doom the bookie
February 9th, 2012
2:18 pm
Guy Incognito,
The sheeple have been fed a lot of raw meat today. You’re looking good on your over wager!
Kamchak
February 9th, 2012
2:19 pm
Oh well. I’ll just have to get over my melancholy and escape the librul’s pit of intellectual despair.
“Toodles.”
– Thomas Jefferson
Granny Godzilla
February 9th, 2012
2:19 pm
Bishops overreach…..again.
And they wear silly hats, too.
pat
February 9th, 2012
2:19 pm
So what you have openned up Jay is a Catholic bash session. Let’s be honest.
See like long ago when you were espousing the rightness of the Dutch Government to illegally raid the church archives. Of course you never did report the results of the raid, here I will tell you. They found nothing.
So liberal thinking goes like this: It’s wrong to hate gays, muslims, minorities, fat people, etc. But its a-ok to vocally hate Christians and Christianity. That’s whats really happening here.
You deliberately opened the doors for hate speech against Catholics and the church because you hate Catholics and the Church. This is all just Christian bashing, you know damn well that the clause in the health bill mandating this is illegal and unconstitutional. There is no argument on that.
But why miss an opportunity to do some good ol’ fashion Christian bashing. That’s all that’s going on here. To say otherwise is a lie.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
2:20 pm
Oh, no, i remember!!!
It’s right after the part where Frodo throws the ring into the fire….
Jefferson
February 9th, 2012
2:21 pm
Let the litigation begin, in the mean time pound sand.
TaxPayer
February 9th, 2012
2:21 pm
Steel isn’t strong, boy, flesh is stronger !
– Thomas “Doom and Gloom” Jefferson
Talking Head
February 9th, 2012
2:21 pm
If Obama was Catholic, all the libs would be defending Catholicism…which ever way the wind blows
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
2:21 pm
pat – “you know damn well that the clause in the health bill mandating this is illegal and unconstitutional. There is no argument on that.”
Actually there is. And if you spent anytime reading the responses on here, you would see how utterly foolish and hypocritical you’re being.
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
2:22 pm
“I provide you with 2 different surveys showing you the same thing and that’s the best you can come up with??? disparaging Politico???”
USinUK, your problem is that you can’t come up with one that proves your point. The fall out from this issue will unfold over time and quite possibly at the November voting polls where it will be determined if it had any impact on the election. That question won’t be determined by any survey Politico comes up with that you would like to believe proves your point. The Obama administration is appearing to back peddle on this issue and that says they’re not taking any poll to the bank.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
2:22 pm
Whatever: Well then, who are we to tell people they have to pay taxes, if taxes are “against their beliefs”?
pat
February 9th, 2012
2:23 pm
Butch, do some homework yourself. Catholic Church institutions in Georgia do not pay for coverage of BC, sterilization, Abortificants, nor abortion services. I know this for a fact. Some of us work in the industry…. We know first hand what is and what is not covered.
Terrence
February 9th, 2012
2:23 pm
A statement by U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius
http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2012pres/01/20120120a.html
“We intend to require employers that do not offer coverage of contraceptive services to provide notice to employees, which will also state that contraceptive services are available at sites such as community health centers, public clinics, and hospitals with income-based support.”–Kathleen Sebelius 2012
Why not just leave it at that?
The president is suffering from a self-inflicted wound.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
2:23 pm
should my tax $$ go to fund a behavior that is against my conscience?
Pacifists don’t get a 50% reduction in their income taxes.
Scientologists don’t get out of funding Medicare/Medicaid.
Zero Population growth believers still have to pay property taxes for schools.
Why are these any different? BTW “that’s not about evil vajayjays” is a pretty lame answer.
Libertarian
February 9th, 2012
2:23 pm
“So liberal thinking goes like this: It’s wrong to hate gays, muslims, minorities, fat people, etc. But its a-ok to vocally hate Christians and Christianity. That’s whats really happening here. ”
I’m not a religious person, but I have to agree with you here. There are a lot of hypocritical liberals on this blog and in this country. They want freedom for some, not all.
Davanna
February 9th, 2012
2:24 pm
There are some damn fine comments to be found here.
willie lynch
February 9th, 2012
2:25 pm
This Catholic moralizing is making me sick. There should have been this outraged when it came time to completely overhaul the system that permitted rampant pedophilia. I bet they would be all for allowing free contraception if little boys could get pregnant.
The Catholic church has given up it’s moral authority. In my book it never should have had any.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
2:25 pm
Oh lawdy I just realized I’ve been shirking my responsibilites. The girl down the street is 25-30, single, and I’ld be shocked if she aint doing the naughty. I gotta run down their and give her my $25 share this month to pay for her birth control if indeed she is on the pill. It just aint right that she should have to pay for it by herself. It just aint!
pat
February 9th, 2012
2:26 pm
“Actually there is. And if you spent anytime reading the responses on here, you would see how utterly foolish and hypocritical you’re being.” —- It’s all hate speech, you’re the hypocrites.
And the OP knows damn well he started this blog in order to draw anti-Catholic hate speech, period.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
2:27 pm
If Obama was Catholic, all the libs would be defending Catholicism…which ever way the wind blows
Instead we are stuck defending Islam for 4 more years. shhesh
Adam
February 9th, 2012
2:27 pm
It is not ok to hate Christians. It IS ok to call them out for being stupid. Much as it would be if a gay man or a woman or a black person was being stupid. It is STUPID to think this provision, which is a carbon copy of almost all of the 28 dates that have similar provision, is ZOMG ATTACK ON RELIGIOUS FREEDOM!
Stop pretending the First Amendment is an excuse to ignore any law you feel like.
willie lynch
February 9th, 2012
2:28 pm
Libertarian
February 9th, 2012
2:23 pm
And conservatives want you to fight to the death for the right to own a gun, but don’t want a woman to have the right to choose what she does with her own body. Do you people hear yourselves?
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
2:28 pm
It is against my beliefs to drive on the right side of the road.
Normal
February 9th, 2012
2:29 pm
Sex is NOT naughty. It IS natural and WONDERFUL!
ragnar danneskjold
February 9th, 2012
2:29 pm
HR 1179 looks like a pretty rational middle ground, creates a “rider” for such coverages. If one wants the coverage, one purchases it; if one does not, one is not obliged to subsidize the abomination. Since it is a reasonably intelligent middle solution, we can rely on leftists to object. Not with any reason, just object.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
2:29 pm
pat – “It’s all hate speech, you’re the hypocrites. ”
I’m sorry, the Catholic Church didn’t spend decades covering up the abuses of it’s clergy and the contraceptive provision hasn’t in effect in multiple states including Georgia since long before Obama signed on?
My deepest apologies, I guess I have truly been mislead.
Libertarian
February 9th, 2012
2:30 pm
willie lynch
February 9th, 2012
2:28 pm
a) I didn’t say anything about “conservatives” in my post—they have a lot of hypocrites too
b) I believe in both, because I believe in personal liberty…I’m not a hypocrite.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
2:31 pm
Steel isn’t strong, boy, flesh is stronger !
– Thomas “Doom and Gloom” Jefferson
Excellent! Nice one taxpayer. Very nice! Perhaps my favorite quote from Thulsa Doom.
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
2:31 pm
The lefties on here have been drinking group think Kool-Aid by the gallon on this issue. If Obama and company say we’ll get the lefts vote anyway, so lets cave on this issue and give the religious organizations a pass with this mandate, how will Jay spin it and how will his group think minions react. Could be interesting. Anyway I’m out for the afternoon.
Get Real
February 9th, 2012
2:32 pm
Obama is digging a deep hole, I hope for all our sskes (whether you realize it or not) he keeps digging
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
2:32 pm
The girl down the street is 25-30, single, and I’ld be shocked if she aint doing the naughty. I gotta run down their and give her my $25 share this month to pay for her birth control if indeed she is on the pill.
Ahhh Mr Speedo trying to exhibit his unwanted wares and having to pay to get people to look……. talk about offended…..
pat
February 9th, 2012
2:32 pm
Thanks for making my point Butch. Jay set this up for people like you to continually dredge up 50 year old cases to spray your hate filled vile all over.
TaxPayer
February 9th, 2012
2:33 pm
Forgive me, canon, for I have foddered! – Thomas “Doom and Gloom” Jefferson
Mick
February 9th, 2012
2:33 pm
recon
I’ll give you an answer right now, I could care less either way, it’s a a non issue for me…
AmVet -
February 9th, 2012
2:33 pm
You self-pious cons are a real hoot. Transparent, hypocritical, inconsistent and intellectually dishonest as hell.
Is it any wonder that my tribe consistently votes against you 80% or more of the time?
Selah…
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
2:34 pm
pat – “Jay set this up for people like you to continually dredge up 50 year old cases to spray your hate filled vile all over.”
I don’t need Jay to do that. Hell man, I’m a Lutheran. We’ve been trashing the Catholic Church for centuries.
Talking Head
February 9th, 2012
2:34 pm
“And conservatives want you to fight to the death for the right to own a gun, but don’t want a woman to have the right to choose what she does with her own body.”
If my girlfriend and I were to get pregnant and she had an abortion, can I take her to court for killing our child?
mm
February 9th, 2012
2:34 pm
You wingnuts are pathetic. Every single day you are whining about something being unconstitutional.
Get Real
February 9th, 2012
2:35 pm
Recon…don’t bother, it is a rigged deck on this blog as the liberal minions have a place to play all day long…keeps them out of trouble
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
2:36 pm
lets cave on this issue and give the religious organizations a pass with this mandate, how will Jay spin it and how will his group think minions react.
Win some, lose some. We will live. We don’t have to put every little grievance on a bumper sticker like some folks…
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
2:36 pm
Get Real – “it is a rigged deck on this blog as the liberal minions have a place to play all day long”
As long as you guys keep feeding us BS, I guess we’ll never starve.
JOE Cool-Republicans Call Him MESSIAH, I Just Call Him Mr. President
February 9th, 2012
2:37 pm
“There are a lot of hypocritical liberals on this blog and in this country. They want freedom for some, not all.”
ummmm isnt this about freedom for all to to be covered..if they want?
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
2:37 pm
T. Head — “If my girlfriend and I were to get pregnant and she had an abortion, can I take her to court for killing our child?”
Give it a try and report back to us on that.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
2:38 pm
Taxpayer @2:33,
That was mildly amsuing. I’m actually smiling at that one. Didn’t fall outta my chair laughing mind you but I got a light chuckle out of it.
Tommy Maddox
February 9th, 2012
2:38 pm
I ran a little Lexis Georgia search for the term “contraceptives” The first thing I found was a photo of Nancy Pelosi – guaranteed to cause anyone to refrain from the process of reproduction.
Next was OCGA §33-24-59.6. It states that HEALTH BENEFIT POLICIES [not EMPLOYERS] are required to include coverage in policies written in Georgia. Apparently Georgia does not have a mandate upon employers [maybe they do if they are a self-insured entity - it does not say].
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
2:38 pm
The Nuclear Regulatory Commission voted 4-to-1 to grant a license to build two nuclear reactors in Georgia, the first time the commission had done so since 1978.
NYTimes.com
Thulsa Doom the bookie
February 9th, 2012
2:40 pm
Speedo card! Dadgumit. Why why why did I not think to make a prop bet on when the speedo card would be played? Its as predictable as the sunrise and yet I forgot to place a prop bet on it. Dang!
AmVet -
February 9th, 2012
2:40 pm
I saw where the Serial Groper was Exhibit #1 at the con circle-jerk this morning.
Is his campaign still suspended? And will the narcissistic Pizza Maker force Newt to sit at the back of that garish bus? LOL.
JOE Cool-Republicans Call Him MESSIAH, I Just Call Him Mr. President
February 9th, 2012
2:41 pm
You ever wonder why Kyle never comes over here, probably he knows he’d torn to shreds with facts.
JAY, you should go a piece where you and Kyle and everyone can chime in……
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
2:42 pm
If my girlfriend and I were to get pregnant and she had an abortion, can I take her to court for killing our child?
If that same child needs a kidney transplant and you refuse, can she take you to court for killing your child?
Oh, wait, men are legally entitled to control of their innards. Sorry I got uppity there for a minute.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
2:42 pm
All this talk about banning abortion and prohibiting coverage for contraception. Why do the Republicans want to create more welfare recipients to vote against them?
Fred (I need a pill)
February 9th, 2012
2:43 pm
Talking Head
February 9th, 2012
2:34 pm
“And conservatives want you to fight to the death for the right to own a gun, but don’t want a woman to have the right to choose what she does with her own body.”
If my girlfriend and I were to get pregnant and she had an abortion, can I take her to court for killing our child?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Unless there have been advances to medical science I am unaware of, I seriously doubt you can get pregnant.
Do we need a name change? Maybe Talking out your…………. ah, never mind.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
2:44 pm
Doom Why why why did I not think
“Why you have never done something before, ask not why, ask how. Don’t be doomed to stupidity.” — Zeus
willie lynch
February 9th, 2012
2:45 pm
Talking Head
February 9th, 2012
2:34 pm
Since you seem to want to take the high ground moral position, why isn’t your girlfriend your wife before she gets pregnant?
Fred (I need to catch up)
February 9th, 2012
2:45 pm
I can’t stay boob, I mean abreast of this conversation today dang it. There have been some REALLY good posts on both sides of the issue too……..
Thulsa Doom the bookie
February 9th, 2012
2:46 pm
T. Head — “If my girlfriend and I were to get pregnant and she had an abortion, can I take her to court for killing our child?”
Give it a try and report back to us on that.
It depends. Do it in a country that borders us- Mexico, and you are subject to criminal penalties. As well as in other countries such as Indonesia, Egypt, Nigeria, etc. Here in the U.S. liberals do loves their abortionists they do.
mm
February 9th, 2012
2:46 pm
I don’t know of any employers that pay 100 percent of an employee’s insurance. Based on that, the employee’s share of the insurance cost is paying for BC. So the Catholic Church has no leg to stand on. I think we have another social issue about to blow up in the GOP’s face. For the last several weeks, the GOP has resembled Wile E. Coyote after something blew up in his face.
Talking Head
February 9th, 2012
2:47 pm
“If that same child needs a kidney transplant and you refuse, can she take you to court for killing your child?”
If my child needed a kidney and i was a match, i would give it to them in a heartbeat…busted!
Fred (I need to catch up)
February 9th, 2012
2:47 pm
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
2:42 pm
If my girlfriend and I were to get pregnant and she had an abortion, can I take her to court for killing our child?
If that same child needs a kidney transplant and you refuse, can she take you to court for killing your child?
Oh, wait, men are legally entitled to control of their innards. Sorry I got uppity there for a minute.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Can his kidney ever be birthed and live independently to grow, mature and become a ……….. hell I don’t know. i’m not the one comparing a kidney to a child. What DOES the mythical birthed grown up kidney become? A pie?
Tommy Maddox
February 9th, 2012
2:47 pm
I’d hardly refer to the Catholic Church as the GOP.
Talking Head
February 9th, 2012
2:49 pm
“Unless there have been advances to medical science I am unaware of, I seriously doubt you can get pregnant.
Do we need a name change? Maybe Talking out your…………. ah, never mind.”
Classic Liberal deflection. Avoid the points, deflect, and personalize the discussion.
Thulsa Doom the bookie
February 9th, 2012
2:49 pm
Oh noes. Just as Doomy was about to post the prop bet on the Zeus card it gets played. Sooooooo predictable! Oh well. I reckons I can post those prop bets for tomorrow.
Fred (I need to catch up)
February 9th, 2012
2:49 pm
Here is one for all you wingnuts. You’ll love it. (So will SOME of the leftnuts and most of the independents):
http://www.fluther.com/23146/pretend-this-is-your-son-what-would-you-have-done/
JOE Cool-Republicans Call Him MESSIAH, I Just Call Him Mr. President
February 9th, 2012
2:50 pm
Talking Head
February 9th, 2012
2:47 pm
You didnt answer the question…lol.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
2:50 pm
I love how when the whole moral argument fails, the anti-choice people pull crap laws out of the air to make their argument, all the while claiming that the law of the land that abortion is legal is a crap law.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
2:51 pm
“Avoid the points, deflect, and personalize the discussion.”
Talking head do know the liberal mentality quite well he do.
Talking Head
February 9th, 2012
2:52 pm
“Since you seem to want to take the high ground moral position, why isn’t your girlfriend your wife before she gets pregnant?”
Again, liberal deflection by avoiding the point.
So to have a moral position, I need to be married to have a child? If I am Athiest or Agnostic do these provision also apply (especially if I think abortion is murder)?
Fred (I need to catch up)
February 9th, 2012
2:52 pm
Talking Head
February 9th, 2012
2:49 pm
“Unless there have been advances to medical science I am unaware of, I seriously doubt you can get pregnant.
Do we need a name change? Maybe Talking out your…………. ah, never mind.”
Classic Liberal deflection. Avoid the points, deflect, and personalize the discussion.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Really? That’s the BEST you can do? I’m a “liberal” now? Thanks lol. I’ll have to keep that in mind. Oh wait. What you mean is you have brains and can’t argue anything. You have learned from your talk radio God’s that anyone who doesn’t walk lock step with you is a ‘liberal.”
Man are you folks mindless lol.
mm
February 9th, 2012
2:53 pm
Keep bashing women, righties. It’s a winning strategy.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
2:53 pm
If my child needed a kidney and i was a match, i would give it to them in a heartbeat…busted!
I don’t know what question you’re answering, but I surely didn’t see anything about whether she could take you to court if you refused.
Maybe your girlfriend would never have an abortion, either. You didn’t ask about that, you asked if you could take her to court—-busted, and 15 yards for flagrant illegal movement of goalposts!
Adam
February 9th, 2012
2:53 pm
Talking head do know the liberal mentality quite well he do.
You mean he knows how HUMANS act when they have trouble acting responsibly in a particular discussion.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
2:54 pm
Talking Head: Again, liberal deflection by avoiding the point
Why do I have a feeling you’re going to say that to ANYONE who responds….
To answer your question: no, you cannot.
Fred (I need to catch up)
February 9th, 2012
2:54 pm
I’m still waiting to hear how you can become pregnant like you said you could Talking Head…………..
Corey
February 9th, 2012
2:54 pm
The project also received $8.3 billion in taxpayer-backed federal loan guarantees.
Gasp! A red state based company received a federal loan from a government headed by a socialist! That violates “conservative principles.” I’m shocked.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
2:54 pm
Fred – “You have learned from your talk radio God’s that anyone who doesn’t walk lock step with you is a ‘liberal.”
Get used to it. I was a card carrying member of the GOP until they went off the deep end with GW. Haven’t voted for either side since, but I’m constantly painted with the lefty, liberal, Obama lover label on here on a regular basis.
I’m beholden to neither party, I just can’t resist calling BS when I see it.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
2:55 pm
“Catholic Church as the GOP.”
Well of course. That’s why Massachussetts, chock full of Catholics, has had democrats running the state for decades it seems.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
2:57 pm
Thulsa Doom – “That’s why Massachussetts, chock full of Catholics, has had democrats running the state for decades it seems.”
Romney was a Democrat when he was Governor?
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
2:57 pm
Doom — “Here in the U.S. liberals do loves their abortionists they do.”
Considering abortion is legal, sure.
Speaking of legal, I hope you’re in Vegas or Atlantic City right now, bookie.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
2:58 pm
Ok let’s face it people, the Catholic church is not an enemy. It is those in power who think they can FORCE people, especially those outside their faith, to do things their way. THAT is what is happening when they operate as an employer, religiously affiliated or not, of a non-religious institution such as a college or hospital, and then turn around and say they should be able to DENY their employees the same health care the rest of the country gets.
mm
February 9th, 2012
2:58 pm
More Fox Fear:
“Waivers Let Team Obama Seize Control of Your Child’s Educaction”
You righties just don’t know entertaining you are.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
2:59 pm
So far the deflection seems to be a real problem of the conned on this blog, has any of them addressed the issue of why the Catholic Church should dictate that its beliefs means that no insurance policy in this country should provide for the purchase of contraceptives?
Why do the conned run and deflect?
Tommy Maddox
February 9th, 2012
3:00 pm
Why don’t you ask the church hierarchy and not us folks down low?
Talking Head
February 9th, 2012
3:01 pm
“I’m still waiting to hear how you can become pregnant like you said you could Talking Head…………..”
Once again this is a deflection from the point of discussion. You are aware that couples often say “we’re pregnant” when referring to having a child? Regardless, the point was can you take your gf/wife/hookup/one night stand/friend/mail ordered bride/ect. to court if they’re pregnant (half of the baby is made up of your DNA) and decide to have an abortion against your will? I was just asking a simple question.
No one can seem to answer it, only deflections (liberal).
Kentucky Jacket
February 9th, 2012
3:01 pm
Taxpayer and USinUK at 2:12 and 2:13
Not to change the subject, and not to say that you have to believe it, but:
The Lord hath called me from the womb: from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. Isaiah 49:1 KJV
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you. Before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. Jeremiah 1:5
If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. Exodus 21:22 (now this one is interesting to me, because it proceeds the following “23And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
24Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Leviticus 18:22
22Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Romans 1:24-27
24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Jude 1:7
7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
But yes, the Bible does maintain a ground against abortion and homosexuality.
Tommy Maddox
February 9th, 2012
3:02 pm
I’m not Catholic either so I can’t help you there. I’ll ask my two buddies named George. They are both ultra-liberal Catholics. They might have exploded by now.
mm
February 9th, 2012
3:02 pm
The DOW is closing in on 13000. Unemployment is down. Unemployment filings are down. Taxes are at record lows. Corporate profits are at record highs.
No wonder the GOP is manufacturing social issues.
Fred (I need to catch up)
February 9th, 2012
3:02 pm
Butch; much the same story lol. The problem is that the Republicans right now are just so weirded out. They are whackier right now than the Democrats were after Gore lost to W. Well actually after sKerry lost to W. I think they (the Dems) set a new high for craziness after Kerry lost. But the Pubs have certainly blazed past that record……………..
Adam
February 9th, 2012
3:03 pm
No one can seem to answer it, only deflections (liberal).
Really?
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
3:03 pm
I would rather pay for someone’s birth control than their abortion.
The Bishops are entitled to their opinion too.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
3:03 pm
Talking Head – ” the point was can you take your gf/wife/hookup/one night stand/friend/mail ordered bride/ect. to court if they’re pregnant (half of the baby is made up of your DNA) and decide to have an abortion against your will?”
Yes you can, but you would lose. Since you aren’t carrying the baby, your parental rights are severely limited. You may not like it, but you will not have much ground to stand on.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
3:04 pm
mm: No wonder the GOP is manufacturing social issues.
Again, the conservatives are deflecting from the main issue.
See how that works?
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
3:05 pm
What I want to know is: How close are they going to put those two nuclear reactors to my house?
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
3:06 pm
Finn – “What I want to know is: How close are they going to put those two nuclear reactors to my house?”
Don’t worry about it, I’m sure if Obama had any say in the decision there will Right Wing protest marches demanding that Nuclear Energy be abolished.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
3:06 pm
Has anyone even bothered to mention that if we had a single payer system that NONE of this would be an issue?
willie lynch
February 9th, 2012
3:06 pm
Talking Head
February 9th, 2012
2:52 pm
Do Athiest and Agnostics abstain from marriage? If it is your opinion that abortion is murder then so be it, but that’s your opinion. You can voice your opinion concerning that all day but you have no right to tell a woman that she can’t do what she wants with an unwanted pregnancy. It’s her body.
Talking Head
February 9th, 2012
3:08 pm
Butch @3:03,
Thank you for answering. I wonder how the rights (of the father as a parent) change the closer to term the pregnancy becomes, maybe there are already cases out there that have dealt with this issue.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
3:09 pm
No one can seem to answer it
Several of us have…the answer is obviously “no.” Just like she can’t take you to court and force you to use your bodily organs to sustain that child’s life.
I’m not sure why you blame others because you’re too incompetent to ask the question you think you’re asking. But then if you can’t even gather up words and put them in order to ask, I’m not terribly surprised.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
3:09 pm
Kentucky Jacket
I can post numerous scriptures from the Old Testament…
Are you selective on the one’s YOU adhere too or follow them all to the letter?
Thought so
Vulva
February 9th, 2012
3:09 pm
ban vaginas, problem solved
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
3:09 pm
The Bishops are entitled to their opinion and if they are Americans, they are entitled to vote. They however are not entitled to impose their religious views on all Americans and demand that laws be changed to make their religion.
Oh how the conned do scurry away when under the light of truth.
Terrence
February 9th, 2012
3:10 pm
“All this talk about banning abortion and prohibiting coverage for contraception. Why do the Republicans want to create more welfare recipients to vote against them?”
Because unlike you, Republicans aren’t eugenicists.
One of the most prominent feminists to champion the eugenic agenda was Margaret Sanger, the leader of the American birth control movement (Planned Parenthood). Margaret Sanger saw birth control as a means to prevent unwanted children from being born into a disadvantaged life, and incorporated the language of eugenics to advance the movement.[19][20] Sanger also sought to discourage the reproduction of persons who, it was believed, would pass on mental disease or serious physical defect. She advocated sterilization in cases where the subject was unable to use birth control.[19] Unlike other eugenicists, she rejected euthanasia.[21][not in citation given] For Sanger, it was individual women and not the state who should determine whether or not to have a child
If Sanger didn’t want the state involved, why do the feds give money to PP?
md
February 9th, 2012
3:10 pm
“Our President got another 26 billion from the banks for mortgage fraud.”
You silly person you…..he got 26 billion from those customers that bank with any of those banks.
Kamchak
February 9th, 2012
3:10 pm
The DOW is closing in on 13000. Unemployment is down. Unemployment filings are down. Taxes are at record lows. Corporate profits are at record highs.
But…but…but…$5 a gallon gas, Kenyan socialist, community organizer, TELEPROMPTER….
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
3:11 pm
W. Lynch — “Do Athiest and Agnostics abstain from marriage?”
You rang?
Talking Head
February 9th, 2012
3:12 pm
“Do Athiest and Agnostics abstain from marriage? If it is your opinion that abortion is murder then so be it, but that’s your opinion. You can voice your opinion concerning that all day but you have no right to tell a woman that she can’t do what she wants with an unwanted pregnancy. It’s her body.”
I have no idea, I guess it would be there decision to get married or not.
Also, thank you for respecting the fact that I can have an opinion that differs from you.
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
3:12 pm
Kamchak
Sounds like a good case for re-election.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
3:12 pm
Terrance – “If Sanger didn’t want the state involved, why do the feds give money to PP?”
I don’t know, if Georgia wants the Federal Government out of it’s business, why did it accept 15 billion in stimulus money? The worlds a crazy place man.
harvey
February 9th, 2012
3:13 pm
I am a conservative who wishes a lot more unwanted children were aborted. I can’t make enough money to feed other people’s babies.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
3:13 pm
Rectors to be built near Augusta. My chillins will be safe.
Bosch
February 9th, 2012
3:14 pm
Is the Catholic Church even relevant anymore? Who cares if they throw their little tantrums? If you don’t want to use birth control, don’t use it.
This type of tyranical behavior is why people are flying away from the church in droves, well, that and their perpensity of their priests toward altar boys, but still.
Kentucky Jacket
February 9th, 2012
3:14 pm
They Both Suck
1) They weren’t all from the Old Testament
2) I adhere to the Bible, not parts of it.
The two posts I referenced inferred that the Bible had no standing in regards to abortion or homosexality. I posted some verses that I feel DO support that abortion and homosexuality are sins.
Since you state that you can post Scriptures as well, please post the ones that say that abortion or homosexuality is NOT a sin.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
3:14 pm
harvey – “I can’t make enough money to feed other people’s babies.
Butch Cassidy – ” I can’t make enough money to school other peoples children.
Bosch
February 9th, 2012
3:16 pm
“why do the feds give money to PP?”
Because they provide lots of health care services for low men and women.
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
3:16 pm
Man, this is going to be a fun afternoon. Arguing about abortion and religion. Somebody pass the popcorn and some soda.
Bosch
February 9th, 2012
3:16 pm
Make that low “income” men and women.
Talking Head
February 9th, 2012
3:16 pm
“I have no idea, I guess it would be there decision to get married or not.”
whoops just typed a personal peeve of mine, i meant ‘their’ not ‘there’..can’t stand that
Kamchak
February 9th, 2012
3:16 pm
Sounds like a good case for re-election.
Sure, but since a week or so before the SOTU the $5 a gallon gas meme has been repeated here on an almost daily basis.
Gotta think it’s from a chain email.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
3:16 pm
Bible? Is that the book about how to place horse race bets? I have that book. Never read those parts, though.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
3:17 pm
Kentucky
Didnt say the Bible says it wasn’t a sin not did you post one scirepiture about abortion? YOUR INTERPRETATION
So you follow OLD TESTAMENT to the letter as you say? Really? or like my earlier post mentioned. YOU ARE SELECTIVE
thought so
Get Real
February 9th, 2012
3:17 pm
Butchey…I think you came fully equipped to this blog with enough BS too fill the ocean….who are you kidding
barking frog
February 9th, 2012
3:17 pm
Butch 3:14, and harvey, I have, I can, and I will continue to do so.
Fred
February 9th, 2012
3:17 pm
Talking Head
February 9th, 2012
3:01 pm
“I’m still waiting to hear how you can become pregnant like you said you could Talking Head…………..”
Once again this is a deflection from the point of discussion. You are aware that couples often say “we’re pregnant” when referring to having a child?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I here a lot of things that are unmitigated BS. What has that to do with anything? The FACT is that you can’t become pregnant.
Why do you hard core right wing fanatics like to play word games UNTIL you are on the recdieving end?
Bosch
February 9th, 2012
3:18 pm
“please post the ones that say that abortion or homosexuality is NOT a sin.”
Yes, and while you’re at it, can you also post the scriptures that say slaying a unicorn is also NOT a sin. Kthnx.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
3:18 pm
(ir)Rational: side note, did you know “soda” and “pop” and “coke” are not the only terms used to describe carbonated drinks? Some localities have different terms and someone did a map on this.
http://popvssoda.com/
Kentucky Jacket
February 9th, 2012
3:18 pm
They Both Suck,
And I do understand better now the point you were trying to make after rereading your post, and honestly I don’t have time to get into it now, but can later if you’d like. The point is that for example while we no longer stone someone for adultry, doesn’t make adultry ok.
Fred
February 9th, 2012
3:18 pm
Hey Bosch. Long time no see. Still got them goof y dogs and useless iphone?
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
3:18 pm
We’ve been hearing the $5 a gallon gas meme since before the 2008 election. “If we elect Obama we will have $5 gas and yada yada yada.”
yawn
Adam
February 9th, 2012
3:19 pm
Talkign Head: whoops just typed a personal peeve of mine, i meant ‘their’ not ‘there’..can’t stand that
The beauty of this blog is no one is going to give you crap for that.
Bosch
February 9th, 2012
3:19 pm
“So you follow OLD TESTAMENT to the letter as you say?”
So, do you also believe in slavery, killing unruly children, and not eating shrimp? Do you also not wear poly/cotton blend? Because anyone tells me I can’t have shrimp, they are just crazy.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
3:19 pm
For those who care to add their voice to protect access to birth control.
http://emilyslist.org/action/add_your_voice_protect_birth_control_for_millions_of_women_mojo
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
3:20 pm
barking frog – “Butch 3:14, and harvey, I have, I can, and I will continue to do so.
I do too. I was just pointing out to harvey that we don’t get to pick and choose how our tax money is distributed. Unfortunately, America isn’t a Burger King where you always get to have it your way.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
3:20 pm
Deuteronomy 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woolen and linen together.
22:22
If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.
Kentucky………… Let me know if you need more
Adam
February 9th, 2012
3:20 pm
Kamchak: Gotta think it’s from a chain email.
Rush or Hannity is my wager.
Get Real
February 9th, 2012
3:20 pm
mm…”The DOW is closing in on 13000. Unemployment is down. Unemployment filings are down. Taxes are at record lows. Corporate profits are at record highs.
No wonder the GOP is manufacturing social issues”
Thank goodness a GOP lead House has stopped the liberal maddeness..you are only kidding yourself
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
3:21 pm
Bosch, step away from the shrimp.
Bosch
February 9th, 2012
3:21 pm
Fred,
The pups (who are almost two now) are NOT goofy! They are the finest canine creatures ever born on this rock we call Earth.
And yes, I still have the useless iPhone.
Yeah, I’m not around these parts much anymore, I am now a capitalist pig business owner, and, shockingly, I have to work!!! Taking a break at the moment.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
3:22 pm
Butch Cassidy,
ROmney worked with a Dem legislature and as far as I can remember Mass. senators have been Ds, the state legislature has been D, the gov. right now is D. Its pretty well dominated by the Ds in Mass.
Bosch
February 9th, 2012
3:22 pm
Finn,
No.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
3:22 pm
whoops just typed a personal peeve of mine, i meant ‘their’ not ‘there’..can’t stand that
At this blog, that’s the only thing we can all agree on.
Frankly, the vast number of children unable to distinguish between “their,” “there,” and “they’re” is one of the best arguments for population control. We’re living in total anarchy, dang it.
AmVet -
February 9th, 2012
3:23 pm
(ir), it’s pretty much the same old song and dance.
i.e., my mythology can kick your mythology’s ___. And therefore deserves special dispensation from our secular government!
To me it’s the blogging equivalent of basketball before the shot clock…
Boring…………..boring……………boring…
Bosch
February 9th, 2012
3:23 pm
They Both Suck,
Get Real is demonstrating the well known behavior round these parts known as “when something good happens, it is the ones on my team.”
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
3:23 pm
Kentucky Jacket
Thanks for your reply. You are indeed selectiv when you want the Bible to be the “letter of the law” and when you want to interpret.
That is your prerogative; however I knew that was the case by your earlier post.
No big deal………….. Wasn’t like I expected anything different.
Thanks again for your reply and clarification
md
February 9th, 2012
3:24 pm
“We’ve been hearing the $5 a gallon gas meme since before the 2008 election”
Not saying it will get there, but IF Israel does strike as it is hinted, and Iran does block the Straight, that $5 gas may very well materialize……..
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
3:24 pm
Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woolen and linen together.
Furthermore, thou shalt not wear two striped garments at the same time
Also, this is a good one – Thou shalt have socks chosen to match the shoes, not the slacks.
Bosch
February 9th, 2012
3:25 pm
“but IF Israel does strike as it is hinted”
If Israel strikes Iran, it will be demolished within the next following hour……they know that, won’t happen.
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
3:25 pm
Adam – I went to some sort of convention when I was in HS and they went around the room and asked everyone what they called soda. It was interesting to see how that matched with different areas of the county. I have one complaint I guess, if you could call it that, from the link you posted. Their conclusion was way off. People who call it “pop” are by no means cooler. If anything, they should be chastised and ignored for their ridiculous accents.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
3:25 pm
(ir)Rational:
Kamchak
February 9th, 2012
3:26 pm
“Thou shalt not wear white after Labor Day.”
– Thomas Jefferson
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
3:26 pm
Bosch — “So, do you also believe in slavery, killing unruly children, and not eating shrimp? Do you also not wear poly/cotton blend? Because anyone tells me I can’t have shrimp, they are just crazy.”
Just be an atheist. Then you wear whatever fabrics you like and eat all the shrimp you want.
Personally, I find all this scripture-tossing to be very much akin to a nerdrage argument over whether Kirk or Picard made the better Captain of the USS Enterprise.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
3:27 pm
“Speaking of legal, I hope you’re in Vegas or Atlantic City right now, bookie”.
Yes. Of course. As if I’m making real bets. (shrugging, pointing, laughing)
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
3:27 pm
I don’t care anything about the religious aspects of this issue. What I object to is everyone having to pay for contraceptives on their health insurance policies.
It seems like it would be a lot cheaper for those people who actually want contraceptives to just go out and buy them rather than involving the insurance companies. Same thing for “blue pills.”
md
February 9th, 2012
3:27 pm
“If Israel strikes Iran, it will be demolished within the next following hour……they know that, won’t happen.”
Who knows that and what’s to stop them??
Kentucky Jacket
February 9th, 2012
3:27 pm
As i said, I don’t have time to get into the Old Testament vs New Testament right now, but I will post something later…
And I think some words are getting misunderstood…so let me ask you Bosch and Both:
Are you saying that it doesn’t matter what the Old Testament says if you don’t follow all of it to the letter? (Which is where the selectie part came from)?
Bosch
February 9th, 2012
3:28 pm
Joe,
Yeap, me too. People who base their whole lives on a 5000 year old book, well, that’s just something. I personally find more life knowledge in “the Tau of Pooh.”
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
3:28 pm
MD
Gas prices would go up in the short term…. no doubt.
With that said; how long do you think the straight will be closed.
Lets see: Saudi Arabia, Qatar, US, UK, Germany, France, India will all have something to say about that……….
Let’s turn down the talking point rhetoric and have a common sense dialogue about this issue
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
3:29 pm
(ir)Rational — “People who call it “pop” are by no means cooler. If anything, they should be chastised and ignored for their ridiculous accents.”
My Appalachian hillbilly relatives call it “pop,” but in throaty way that sounds more like “pawp.” My West Coast wife calls it “soda.” Wifey thinks it’s funny that all sweet, carbonated drinks down here are “co-colers,” even the orange-flavored ones.
md
February 9th, 2012
3:29 pm
“People who call it “pop” are by no means cooler.”
Cooler weather maybe…..up North it’s “pop”, down south it’s “coke”…..no matter the beverage, it’s still “coke”.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
3:30 pm
“I lack original thinking. Therefore I do Thomas Jefferson quotes on the Bookman blog”- anonymous lib sheeple
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
3:30 pm
Kentucky
I am not a Christian. You are more then welcome to be selective if you like. I mentioned that it was your prerogative. I just wanted to show and I did show that you are selective when you want to throw out scripture.
I’m good with that……… Carry on
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
3:31 pm
Kentucky Jacket – “As i said, I don’t have time to get into the Old Testament vs New Testament right now”
I always wonderd if God is all knowing and is the end all, be all, why he gave himself a do-over with the New Testament. Wouldn’t it have been easier to just do the New Testament first and make that the one you should follow? You know, kind of like making the amplifier go to 10 and make 10 the loudest. ” These all go to 11″.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
3:31 pm
Bosch — “the Tau of Pooh.”
Got that on a bookshelf down near the bar, along with “The Te of Piglet.”
Bosch
February 9th, 2012
3:31 pm
Kentucky Jacket,
I’m saying, if you are gonna base your opinions on cherry picked scripture, and ignore the rest, then that’s hypocritical at best, ignorant at worst. Why let a book that was put together by a corrupt institution only to empower themselves dictate your life?
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
3:31 pm
fictitious ones of course- anonymous lib sheeple
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
3:32 pm
AmVet – Basketball is boring before the shot clock, after the shot clock, pretty much always. Annoying too. I can’t watch it with the noise on (I can barely stand to watch it without) because of all the squeaking.
md
February 9th, 2012
3:33 pm
They b s,
Let’s not kid ourselves here……a barrel of oil goes up rapidly on the market on the “rumor” of problems in the ME……..nothing has to actually happen to spook the market.
Now, crank up an actual theater over there and the market is going to remain calm??
Kamchak
February 9th, 2012
3:35 pm
“Maybe she’s born with it. Maybe it’s Maybelline.”
– Thomas Jefferson
Bosch
February 9th, 2012
3:35 pm
Yes, and what They Both Suck wrote, you can do whatever you like, but if you are going to tell us that you homosexuals are sinners based on what you read in the Bible, that the Bible is always correct, or whatever, then you can not ignore the rest of what it says.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
3:37 pm
Doom — “(shrugging, pointing, laughing)”
Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.
AmVet -
February 9th, 2012
3:37 pm
(ir), that is true. And I should have mentioned that up front.
Being a native born Jayhawker, I used to be mildly interested in Rock,Chalk, Jayhawk (KU!) basketball but lost interest long ago, and haven’t watched a game, college, pro, or women’s, in a LONG time.
Notwithstanding some minor interest in the NHL, now that college football is over, these are the dark days before baseball begins anew…
Adam
February 9th, 2012
3:37 pm
And thus people started talking about pop vs soda.
\o/
Corey
February 9th, 2012
3:38 pm
Georgia included in $25B foreclosure settlement Georgia and 48 other states have reached a $25 billion deal with major lenders who have agreed to reduce mortgage loans and reimburse customers who became victims of overzealous foreclosures.
The deal would mean loan reductions for nearly 1 million U.S. households and $2,000 checks to about 750,000 homeowners who were the victims of improper foreclosures
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
3:39 pm
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/08/republicans-target-child-tax-break-for-illegal-immigrants/
I wonder how many lib’s on here would agree that this is an outrage and we need to close this loop hole ASAP?
stands for decibels
February 9th, 2012
3:39 pm
One of the most prominent feminists to champion the eugenic agenda was Margaret Sanger
Don’t forget to Photoshop the sheet and the burning cross!
Bosch
February 9th, 2012
3:39 pm
Before I leave, I haven’t been around, don’t know if you guys have talked about Syria, but the next time one of you wingnuts start in about how Obama is a tyrannical dictator who wants to ruin the country, I hope you choke on your own spit.
Your faux outrage is pathetic in light of men, women, and children being actively and unapologetically slaughtered by their own government in Syria. Chew on that.
Terrence
February 9th, 2012
3:39 pm
“The worlds a crazy place man.”
The more the feds get involved, the crazier it will become.
“Because they provide lots of health care services for low men and women.”
Sigmund slips.
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
3:39 pm
JHM – Well, I still say they should be chastised for their accents. I grew up calling everything “coke.” Then I went on my first trip outside the South and started getting Coca Cola in restaurants and was really upset til my parents explained that they were ignorant (at least that is how I remember it). Now I ask for what I want, or generically call it soda (so the ignorant masses know what I’m referring to).
md – My favorite “Yankeeism” came from a mall somewhere in New England when my mom asked for a bottle water, and they said they didn’t have any, but they had a “water bubbler” right around the corner. Took me a while to figure out he was talking about a drinking fountain.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
3:40 pm
md
If you read my post, I didn’t say it will “remain calm”. However unlike many on the “right”, I do not think this notion that Iran can shut down the straight is something that will last very long. Other countries will increase production and the straight will not be closed for too many days.
To your point, will prices increase? yes Will it last and be the catastrophic event that some Fox and radio pundits have been saying for 5 or 6 years now? no
Iran is ratcheting up the rhetoric because the sanctions are working. Whether they have the ability to launch a nuke, I do not have that info. When I look at Iran’s past, outside of supporting proxies (Hamas and Hezbollah), they are not exactly into invading or bombing other countries.
With my limited knowledge I can’t say exactly what they will or will not do; however I do have to take more than just rhetoric into account when formulating my opinion on this issue
Adam
February 9th, 2012
3:40 pm
Corey: SWEET!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
3:40 pm
“The tendency to whining and complaining about my greatest quotes may be taken as the surest sign symptom of little souls and inferior intellects” — Thomas Jefferson to the sheeples
Adam
February 9th, 2012
3:41 pm
Recon: I wonder how many lib’s on here would agree that this is an outrage and we need to close this loop hole ASAP?
Well I agree it is an outrage. (Assuming it’s legit).
But I also wonder if/when Obama says we should do something about it, how many Republicans will run to the podium to be on the opposite side of that issue somehow.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
3:42 pm
Recon — “I wonder how many lib’s on here would agree that this is an outrage and we need to close this loop hole ASAP?”
I wonder how many cons on here would admit that okay, illegals really *DO* pay taxes?
Kentucky Jacket
February 9th, 2012
3:43 pm
Bosch and Both,
I follow what you are saying, and how that came across. The whole point of the initial post was to counter the arguement made earlier that homosexuality and abortion are not spoken out against in the Bible, but I can also see that the way I did it appeared to be cherry picking verses and throwing them out there. While I don’t feel I used them out of context, I do see your point of view.
I do HAVE to go now, but I will give a better, more thoughtful response to the questions you both posed of me later (hopefully tonight).
Adam
February 9th, 2012
3:43 pm
Iran cannot close the strait. We have ships there and they already know that an attack on the US Navy or any of the ships that get the oil is stupid.
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
3:43 pm
AmVet – Last time I watched an entire game of basketball was my freshman year of college. GT went to the national championship game (actually, it only appeared that they went to half of the national championship game) and got slaughtered by UConn. I tried a few more times after that, but I wasn’t really that interested in it then. You just couldn’t be on campus and not be disturbed by it (all the screaming and shouting and fireworks and whatnot during the NCAA tourny were really detrimental to my studying habits.)
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
3:44 pm
Its a tonic not a coke or pop in the same areas that use bubbler, frappe, and jimmies.
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
3:45 pm
Keep – Whoever/where ever that is seems to be screwed up. Where would they talk that crazy?
jewcowboy
February 9th, 2012
3:45 pm
Meh…chuck ‘em when they are eggs or chuck ‘em when they are embryo’s…it doesn’t affect me much. But I would think that if someone was ardently opposed to abortion, then they would be interested in making sure the need for an abortion does not arise.
Of course I do also do not have 2000 years of dogma that I need to justify…
Ernest T. Bass
February 9th, 2012
3:46 pm
The Catholic Church . Ha.
This is the same group that knew about Priests raping children and covered it up.
This is the same group that just forgave Galileo in 1992.
This is the same group that insisted that the sun went around the earth and not the other way around.
This is the same group that preaches that using a condom is a sin in poor countries where they are in desperate need of birth control.
Most Catholics are normal folks but their leadership is horrible.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
3:47 pm
Recon
I would have to agree. With that said, there is no Pres going to work to round up all illegals. Not Bush, Obama………… They probably will not be POTUS, however Romney and Newt will not do much either.
I’m ready for the government to get illegals, legal working status and on the tax pay roll; as well as a more stringent effort to go after businesses hiring illegals. Probably will not happen, but I can wish
Normal
February 9th, 2012
3:47 pm
Here’s some good Christian love for ya…
http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/westboro-baptist-church-stage-anti-gay-protest-pow/nHYhF/
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
3:47 pm
(ir)Rational — “md – My favorite “Yankeeism” came from a mall somewhere in New England when my mom asked for a bottle water, and they said they didn’t have any, but they had a “water bubbler” right around the corner. Took me a while to figure out he was talking about a drinking fountain.”
Once they actually let you start talking to your fellow trainees in boot camp, there are all sorts of moments like this. Right near the end of training, when they let us buy small radios in the PX, several of us were talking about what sort of music we liked as we unpackaged our booty and put batteries in them. One fellow from the Boston area proclaimed that his favorite band was “Hot,” a group no one else had ever heard of. He was mystified and eventually infuriated that no one else knew who “Hot” was.
Turned out he was talking about “Heart,” but all that New England in his voice got in the way.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
3:47 pm
(ir)….. try the places where a shot was heard round the world…… what are you against America and Paul Revere…. you commie!
md
February 9th, 2012
3:47 pm
“With my limited knowledge I can’t say exactly what they will or will not do; however I do have to take more than just rhetoric into account when formulating my opinion on this issue”
Me too. it’s called logic.
Iran’s theocracy is a dictatorship…..no different than Syria, Libya, etc…..the big difference…..they operate off belief vs mere power……..
Logic dictates that if their homicide bombers have no problem going boom with little bombs, a bigger bomb would be a wet dream. And what drives the dream? Certainly nothing of this world.
Again, one is only kidding themselves if they think the theocracy will go down without a fight…..a fight they beieve takes them to a better place…….
look at the last 2 days on this blog to see evidence of how strong beliefs really are………
jewcowboy
February 9th, 2012
3:47 pm
“Of course I do also do not have 2000 years of dogma that I need to justify…”
Muddled grammar alert! Apologies.
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
3:47 pm
“Your faux outrage is pathetic in light of men, women, and children being actively and unapologetically slaughtered by their own government in Syria. Chew on that.”
Yes, and on a far larger scale than Libya. I wonder why Obama gives the Syrian government a pass.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
3:48 pm
md: Certainly nothing of this world.
I disagree.
paulo977
February 9th, 2012
3:48 pm
Again, that is not a fix limited to churches or church-affliated organizations. It would prohibit the contraception requirement across the board, for every employer and insurer
______________________________________________________
This is what RC is all about ….everyone on planet Earth has to be saved otherwise the sinners, ,who use contraceptives , will be doomed to HELL!!!
JOE Cool-Republicans Call Him MESSIAH, I Just Call Him Mr. President
February 9th, 2012
3:48 pm
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
3:39 pm
One question….what do you do about the children who are citizens?
Bosch
February 9th, 2012
3:50 pm
Recon,
“I wonder why Obama gives the Syrian government a pass.”
He’s not. I heard Ambassador Rice call for Assad’s resignation.
We played a minor part in the mission against Lybia. Take your outrage to the UN, blame the people who are responsible. Of, like usual, just blame everything on Obama.
jewcowboy
February 9th, 2012
3:51 pm
paulo977,
“This is what RC is all about ….everyone on planet Earth has to be saved otherwise the sinners, ,who use contraceptives , will be doomed to HELL!”
Maybe they just need more young un’s to molest.
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
3:51 pm
JHM – Yeah, I’ve always wanted to go to Boston (yeah, I managed to hit New England including a large part of Mass without getting to Boston), but the Mrs. just can’t stand the accent.
Keep – I’m very much against their accents. I like their baseball team though. Would like to visit for the history. Loves me some history.
Normal – I typically try to stay out of the religion fights, but representing those quacks as an example of anything Christian is like trying to say the Pope was responsible for the Holocaust. You could make a case for it, but everyone would know you’re trying too hard, and just being ridiculous.
paulo977
February 9th, 2012
3:51 pm
Normal
February 9th, 2012
3:47 pm
Here’s some good Christian love for ya…
________________________________________
Wonder how Christ would deal with this?
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
3:51 pm
Normal – Used the wrong word, I shouldn’t have said responsible for, maybe “implicit” instead.
jewcowboy
February 9th, 2012
3:51 pm
Howdy Bosch!
It’s been a while. How ya been?
Normal
February 9th, 2012
3:51 pm
Yes, and on a far larger scale than Libya. I wonder why Obama gives the Syrian government a pass.
When the UN, as it did in Libya, decides to act, I’m sure President Obama will give all the support he can, as he did in Libya. That is all he can do. We really don’t want to send our children into another “America Only” war, do we?
md
February 9th, 2012
3:51 pm
“Iran cannot close the strait. We have ships there and they already know that an attack on the US Navy or any of the ships that get the oil is stupid.”
Yes Adam, we have ships there……and they have missiles that can take out those ships…..
I don’t think “stupid” enters into the equation……most war is “stupid”.
jconservative
February 9th, 2012
3:52 pm
Not just the Catholic Church:
NASHVILLE, TENNESSEE, February 8, 2012,
One of the most influential evangelical leaders in the United States says Christians should go to jail rather than comply with the Obama administration’s mandate to provide all contraception, including abortion-inducing drugs, in their health care plans.
Dr. Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission (ERLC), told LifeSiteNews.com “we will not comply” with the Dept. of Health and Human Services’ mandate requiring religious institutions to cover abortifacient products such as Plan B, Ella, and the IUD.
“We want the law changed, or else we’re going to write our letters from the Nashville jail, just like Dr. King wrote his from the Birmingham jail,” Dr. Land said.
——————–
I can’t wait until the FBI starts locking up 270 Catholic Bishops and hundreds of Baptist, Methodist,and other Christian ministers.
But then Christians have been persecuted for thusands of years. This will pass also.
md
February 9th, 2012
3:53 pm
“md: Certainly nothing of this world.
I disagree.”
You would Adam……so, tell us why they blow themselves up? The promise of a new house and shiny car?
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
3:53 pm
Oh, and Keep – that’s a first. I don’t believe anyone has ever (even jokingly) called me a commie…
Adam
February 9th, 2012
3:53 pm
md: I don’t think “stupid” enters into the equation……most war is “stupid”.
Stupid does enter into it, or rather Iran’s lack of stupid when it comes to war/conflict with the US. They do not want that, despite their bluster. They have seen what happens when you pick on the U.S. and the fact that Obama is in the White House doesn’t change that at all, especially considering things like Seal Team 6 and drones….
Because of ALL THAT and more, they will NOT be able to close the strait, nor will they try.
jewcowboy
February 9th, 2012
3:54 pm
“Wonder how Christ would deal with this?”
By handing out silphium
stands for decibels
February 9th, 2012
3:54 pm
One fellow from the Boston area proclaimed that his favorite band was “Hot,” a group no one else had ever heard of. He was mystified and eventually infuriated that no one else knew who “Hot” was.
And I’m flashing back to an early business meeting with a guy in a Boston suburb who wanted to know if I had a cod.
I’m thinking, “like… a fish? a pet fish?”
He got kinda hrrumphy and said, “no, a cod. A business cod.”
Normal
February 9th, 2012
3:54 pm
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
3:51 pm
All I know is that they say they are doing what they are doing “in the name of God”…
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
3:55 pm
md
Please keep in mind…. there is a huge difference in brainwashing OTHERS to blow themselves up vs one blowing himself up for Allah or any other God.
The Mullahs and Clerics who run “Mr Members Only jacket” out to say Israel is this or that, we will do this or that……….. Like power just politicians and leaders have since the beginning of time. Of course there are those who want Israel destroyed, but wanting something and doing it my friend isn’t the same game. I don’t see the top Mullahs and Clerics deciding all to die, because havoc will be reigned down on them, so Israel can be nuked
Boris Badnoff
February 9th, 2012
3:55 pm
First The Big Government took over the Auto Industry, Health Care, Big Business, the schools, etc. Now Big Government wants to control religion. Is there anything left? What is it about liberals that they can’t stand the thought of anyone being allowed to do as they wish? I stand with my Catholic brethren. I am a devout Druid and I will dance naked in the moonlight on Summer Solstice and there is nothing you left wing tyrants can do about it.
Bosch
February 9th, 2012
3:55 pm
Hi ya’ jewcowboy, hanging in there! Being a capitalist pig is hard work.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
3:55 pm
md: so, tell us why they blow themselves up? The promise of a new house and shiny car?
Just because they have made up in their head that they will have a reward that is not of this world does not mean that the desire to blow oneself up and ignore all consequences to threatening action is not completely bound to the world we live in. It is a fact of their DNA and upbringing and has nothing to do with some outside supernatural influence.
Kamchak
February 9th, 2012
3:56 pm
“Lizzie Proctor is in league with the Devil!”
– Thomas Jefferson
jewcowboy
February 9th, 2012
3:56 pm
“But then Christians have been persecuted for thusands of years.”
Poor wittle xtians…I weep for your persecution.
paulo977
February 9th, 2012
3:56 pm
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
3:19 pm
____________________
Signed
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
3:56 pm
“We played a minor part in the mission against Lybia.”
Bosch, I beg to differ, we played a major role. First of all we got it started, took a backseat role and when NATO began failing, we stepped back in again. If we had not stepped back in the outcome in all probability would have been much different.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
3:56 pm
Bosch — “We played a minor part in the mission against Lybia.”
IIRC, we pulled back from a combatant role in Libya as the 90-day War Powers Act limit approached. The Act is fuzzy on what, exactly, involves ‘deploying troops overseas into combat,’ so we kept our air crews out of Libyan airspace and concentrated on playing Big Daddy Support by providing fueling and maintenance services as well as lots of high-speed intelligence and surveillance for our allies who were still performing combat missions. It seems that the President complied with the letter of the act, though whether he complied with the spirit of it is debatable.
IMO, it was a pretty fine distinction and possibly amounted to hairsplitting, but it seemed to mollify Congress — as they seemed to lose interest in debating the issue any further once the President took our involvement down to that level.
Bosch
February 9th, 2012
3:56 pm
Ok, break time over….keep it real blog peeps! Later!
Adam
February 9th, 2012
3:56 pm
Bosch: Being a capitalist pig is hard work.
Tell me about it….
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
3:56 pm
(ir)….. well go up there sporting a southern accent and saying y’all, they might just think you have a terrible accent. And be careful with a New Yawk/New Wicked Jersey accent…..
Accents or not, its a beautiful city, great history, and a lot of fine people. Some of the finest people have come from there, gone to school there, or visited there and walked away with a better sense of what it means to be American.
jewcowboy
February 9th, 2012
3:57 pm
Bosch,
“Being a capitalist pig is hard work.”
Doubly so when you have to make up for your socialist views
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
3:57 pm
Normal – Maybe so, but I have a hard time believing that is the same “God” that most Christians worship. Just sayin. Personally, I have no real dog in this fight, just enjoy stirring the sh*t a bit.
Bosch
February 9th, 2012
3:58 pm
Recon, real Normal’s earlier post — your hatred of anything Obama really clouds your credibility with military issues.
When the UN decides to act, they will — and I hope soon. And when that happens, we will provide support, as we should.
Never again, should we send in our troops alone.
Pleasant evening folks.
Lord Help Us
February 9th, 2012
4:00 pm
Jay, I don’t mean to complain but these sheets remind me of an old college roommate. You don’t wanna know…
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
4:00 pm
Well okay 3 replies. Adam and theyBothsuck, agree that it’s an outrage. The third respondent really didn’t offer and opinion. Hardly a quorum but actually more than I expected.
md
February 9th, 2012
4:01 pm
“Stupid does enter into it, or rather Iran’s lack of stupid when it comes to war/conflict with the US. They do not want that, despite their bluster. They have seen what happens when you pick on the U.S. and the fact that Obama is in the White House doesn’t change that at all, especially considering things like Seal Team 6 and drones….
Because of ALL THAT and more, they will NOT be able to close the strait, nor will they try.”
Well, we’ll have to differ on this opinion. In my opinion, you and tbs underestimate the power of beliefs…….
Time will tell, and I hope I’m wrong…….but considering the several thousand years of historical religious conflict, I’m guessing I’m right.
Palestine could have a State today, if Hamas didn’t want Israel gone as a condition…..those beliefs run deep.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
4:01 pm
Recon: We do agree on some stuff and you didn’t start with something really incendiary about the people you were asking the question of.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
4:02 pm
(ir)Rational — “JHM – Yeah, I’ve always wanted to go to Boston (yeah, I managed to hit New England including a large part of Mass without getting to Boston), but the Mrs. just can’t stand the accent.”
Boston’s a great American city to visit IMO. There’s absolutely TONS of history and there are great walking tours. And the seafood and Italian cuisine is fantastic — if you ever go, head to the North End. That’s where the Old North Church is (remember, one if by land, two if by sea?), and it’s an ethnic Italian neighborhood now. Go in ANY of the little restaurants lining Hanover Street and you can’t lose. If you go early in the week, you stand a good chance of being the only people in the place, and the staff will treat you like family. It’s what Olive Garden claims to deliver, but you can *really* get it there.
To make the wife happy, take a water taxi to the Long Wharf and then walk five minutes to the North End. She’ll love it.
saywhat?
February 9th, 2012
4:03 pm
One fellow from the Boston area proclaimed that his favorite band was “Hot,” a group no one else had ever heard of. He was mystified and eventually infuriated that no one else knew who “Hot” was.
And I’m flashing back to an early business meeting with a guy in a Boston suburb who wanted to know if I had a cod.
I’m thinking, “like… a fish? a pet fish?”
He got kinda hrrumphy and said, “no, a cod. A business cod.”
_______________________________________________________
It goes both ways. I am from Connecticut originally. When I told a friend from South Carolina that my son’s name was Liam, she looked confused and said “You mean like a tree Liam?”
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
4:03 pm
Keep – Last time I was in New York (well, technically I believe Fort Monmouth is in Jersey), I hadn’t been there for five minutes before someone was making fun of my accent. I promptly told him “to shut his dam mouth, that if I wanted to hurt my ears I would come find him and let abuse them with his accent.” Oh, and prefaced that by calling him a Dam Yankee. I was about 8 or 9, and my mom was standing there when all this happened. Yeah, I couldn’t sit down for about a week or two. The nickname stuck though. Everyone in the family still calls him Dam Yankee. Apparently, some other guys in his unit thought it was hilarious and the nickname stuck with him in the Army too. Great way to meet the guy your favorite aunt is marrying.
Joseph
February 9th, 2012
4:04 pm
If the church had a union it wouldn’t be a problem would it Jay?????
md
February 9th, 2012
4:05 pm
“I don’t see the top Mullahs and Clerics deciding all to die, because havoc will be reigned down on them, so Israel can be nuked”
And I doubt you believe as they do…..I “believe” that their “beliefs” will dictate their actions, not whether they get to remain in power……if they believe there is a better place waiting for them, especially if they can martyr themselves by getting rid of Israel, what exactly is there to stop them??
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
4:06 pm
JHM – We have an agreement, I get to go to Boston and she gets to pick some horrible place that I had/have no desire to visit. My wife is so cool she picked Vegas. I pretended to protest for a while, but gave it up when I realized she wasn’t buying it.
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
4:06 pm
“Recon, real Normal’s earlier post — your hatred of anything Obama really clouds your credibility with military issues.”
I don’t hate everything Obama, I just don’t believe he’s proved himself worthy of a second term. As for the U.N. acting, you may or you may not know Russia and China vetoed the resolution to take even limited action. I’m glad you’re working but try to be more informed and less presumptive.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:06 pm
It’ll be interesting to see how the Right frames the debate now. Will they support a ban on contraceptives because to do otherwise will be a war on religion? Or will they say ‘uh-uh, this goes too far”? Then how will the address they’ve become party to the War on Religion?
Hey Bosch!
You’ve missed some serious good fun here.
If you consider having the Right avoid answering simple questions to be fun, that is.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
4:07 pm
Recon: I don’t hate everything Obama, I just don’t believe he’s proved himself worthy of a second term
Ok but have any of the GOP candidates proved they deserve a term instead of Obama?
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
4:07 pm
“You mean like a tree Liam?”
“Great way to meet the guy your favorite aunt is marrying.”
No matter who you are and where you’re from, somewhere in America, there are people who think YOU talk funny.
md
February 9th, 2012
4:08 pm
If yous guys are going to talk about Boston, at least spell it right…..it’s Bwoston.
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
4:09 pm
JHM – I don’t think Yankees talk funny, I KNOW they do. There is a difference. By the way, you sayin I talk funny? I’ll kick yer arse for that boy.
Oh, one thing we can all agree on, is them Canadians. Now THEY talk real funny.
AmVet -
February 9th, 2012
4:11 pm
jconservative, as for that guy saying he and his pals would go to jail, ala the civil rights protesters of yore, puhleeze.
Acts of great moral courage are not found in men like that. I’d wager that in less than 4 hours he would be calling the head attorney for the Southern Baptist Convention to get his ass out of jail in time for supper…
carlosgvv
February 9th, 2012
4:11 pm
There should be no suprise here. These Catholic Bishops are merely demonstrating what we knew about them all along. Since they are not allowed to have sex, they are obsessed with the notion that other people are having sex and enjoying it and are determined to limit this as much as possible. This is all about being jealous and consumed with hatred towards those of us not under their celebacy law. It has nothing whatsoever to do with conscience.
md
February 9th, 2012
4:11 pm
“My wife is so cool she picked Vegas.”
My wife likes Vegas too……because it’s full of guys…….
She’s married, but she isn’t blind…….
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
4:12 pm
md – My wife likes the gambling. And strip joints. If I didn’t know better, I would think she played softball.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
4:14 pm
(ir)Rational — “JHM – We have an agreement, I get to go to Boston and she gets to pick some horrible place that I had/have no desire to visit. My wife is so cool she picked Vegas. I pretended to protest for a while, but gave it up when I realized she wasn’t buying it.”
I’ve been to Vegas once (with wife #1), and wife #2 worked at a Reno casino as a change girl for a couple of summers while she was in college. IMO, you can have a great time if you have enough self control to not gamble, or if you strictly budget your gambling.
Wife #1 and I strictly budgeted a hundred bucks apiece, and she made back a couple hundred (I lost all mine). Then we left.
Wife #2 says that she NEVER wants to go back to a casino, as she thinks she could get drawn in pretty quick. You’re not supposed to gamble at the casino where you work (which is why she didn’t get hooked while she was working there), but she did play a bit at other casinos and she just thinks she’d get real stupid with it real quick. Sounds fine to me; I’ve been to Vegas and feel no pressing need to go back.
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
4:15 pm
“Ok but have any of the GOP candidates proved they deserve a term instead of Obama?”
Adam, as for the Republican candidates, not yet but hopefully, one of them will. I thought Romney but he needs to get busy selling himself and quit thinking that he has the nomination sown up. He’s been running that kind of campaign since his victory in Florida and Nevada. Santorum I think has sent a shock into his campaign or should have. Now for Obama you know my opinion there.
Rockerbabe
February 9th, 2012
4:17 pm
The catholic church has a 2000+ year history of misogyny; the fact that some women are not catholic is not of concern to them. The fact that women use contraception 90% of the time during most of the childbearing years is not of concern to them.
The catholic hierarchy is composed of single, supposedly celibate men. Which means they know really very little about women, their needs or wants. . .truth be told, they don’t care.
I think the politicans [mostly men] should tell the catholic church that if it wants to compete in a secular world, then it has to abide by the laws of our land. Which means, the catholic church cannot willfully discriminate against women and their needs. Unequal treatment of women in the workplace is illegal and should be illegal for the catholic church.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
4:18 pm
md
“what exactly is there to stop them??”
You seem to be making an assumption that based on rhetoric, that they have a game plan to bomb Israel. Once again, I must discern from more than just the rhetoric and general talking points and look at the actual history of Iran and Persia………….. While there is much unrest in the ME has there has been for ion (will be for many more ions)…….. I do not see it has some “end game” that Iran is hell bent on destroying Israel and getting destroyed in the process.
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
4:19 pm
JHM – I have no real desire to go back to Vegas, but my wife thinks it is the greatest place on earth. But as long as she wants to go, I guess I’ll be going. I don’t really care, a vacation is a vacation to me, as long as I get good food and sleep.
Someone who can read
February 9th, 2012
4:21 pm
I don’t get liberals. Is it that you can’t comprehend what people write or that it’s much easier to invent what they say without reading it?
The Catholic bishops are suggesting that employers (all employers) should have the option of providing the coverage or not. What is so bad about that? It seems very reasonable that employers choose the benefits they want to provide. But then again, I am not a liberal and have a brain.
The bishops are not trying to force anyone to do anything. It is the Obama administration that wants to force every employer to provide the coverage.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
4:22 pm
del,
It is a better question than this issue and a more complicated one than Libya.
The President asked the Pentagon to draw up plans and I think some jets can take out those tanks but they have better air defense.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:22 pm
Paul – “It’ll be interesting to see how the Right frames the debate now.”
I’m just curious as to how Romney could spin it. If he debates Obama, what’s he going to say. ” You want to mandate contraception coverage” to which Obama can reply. ” You did it first”.
Interesting
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:23 pm
Someone who can read – ” It is the Obama administration and 28 other states, and Mitt Romney that wants to force every employer to provide the coverage.
There ya go, fixed it for you. You’re welcome!
md
February 9th, 2012
4:24 pm
“Ok but have any of the GOP candidates proved they deserve a term instead of Obama?”
Some of us felt Obama had an awful thin resume too…….
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:25 pm
Someone who can read
“The Catholic bishops are suggesting that employers (all employers) should have the option of providing the coverage or not. What is so bad about that”
So you’d be okay if your employer changed your health insurance to no longer cover vaccinations, cancer treatment or diabetes treatment?
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
4:25 pm
Someone – So what is wrong with providing the coverage exactly? Do you think it will offend your invisible deity if you have the option of having those services covered by your insurance? I mean, just because you’re covered doesn’t mean you’re being forced to use them. Or did I miss something? Are government agents going to go into Catholic schools and hospitals and start forcing all the Catholics to take birth control pills and have/perform abortions?
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:26 pm
md -”Some of us felt Obama had an awful thin resume too…….”
Sure he did, but how much experince do the current batch of contenders have as POTUS? Obama wasn’t running against an incumbent.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
4:26 pm
What is so bad about that? It seems very reasonable that employers choose the benefits they want to provide. But then again, I am not a liberal and have a brain.
Obviously, you don’t, because that is not reasonable at all. That’s like saying they should be allowed to put out whites only signs or have an unsafe workplace if they feel like it. Employers are bound by the law.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
4:27 pm
Homeward bound! Catch you all later!
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:30 pm
Paul – “So you’d be okay if your employer changed your health insurance to no longer cover vaccinations, cancer treatment or diabetes treatment?”
Of course he would Paul. Sounds like “Someone who can read” is a good little Drone.
carlosgvv
February 9th, 2012
4:30 pm
Someone who can read – 4:21
If you really believe that you should be saying “but then again I am not a liberal and have NO brain”.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:30 pm
Someone who can read
Hello?
You still there?
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
4:31 pm
Paul – Maybe he can’t read?
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
4:31 pm
Heading home. Y’all have a good evening.
md
February 9th, 2012
4:32 pm
“You seem to be making an assumption that based on rhetoric, that they have a game plan to bomb Israel. Once again, I must discern from more than just the rhetoric and general talking points and look at the actual history of Iran and Persia………….. While there is much unrest in the ME has there has been for ion (will be for many more ions)…….. I do not see it has some “end game” that Iran is hell bent on destroying Israel and getting destroyed in the process.”
Well, you like to call it rhetoric, but one only needs look at the facts. You yourself admit they operate through their proxies, Hezbollah and Hamas, and if one looks at the Hamas charter, one will see that it calls for the destruction of Israel. And then look further at the fact that Hamas even went to war against their own when they ran Fatah out of Gaza because Fatah was on the verge of agreeing to peace, one may get a glimpse of what is actually happening with Iran.
They are the head of the snake, a snake operating off beliefs.
Let’s not forget that once upon a time, die hard muslims bowed toward the West and Israel……think that isn’t stuck in the craw too?
jewcowboy
February 9th, 2012
4:33 pm
Paul,
“So you’d be okay if your employer changed your health insurance to no longer cover vaccinations, cancer treatment or diabetes treatment?”
Only if they throw in “Wine Therapy”.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 9th, 2012
4:33 pm
Well, I don’t mean to get all snarky, but why don’t the health plans just pay to get men and women fixed? It worked for old Ace and I can’t hardly recommend it highly enough. I don’t get nasty calls from people with a new litter of pups and old Ace is now the sweetest dog in the world and don’t never get in a fight anymore. We could use more of that with humans.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:33 pm
(ir)Rational – “Maybe he can’t read?”
It’s that darn waiting time when you call into Boortz to get the answer to the question.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:33 pm
This is turning into a repeat of yesterday. What is it with some people that they can’t say “hmmm… hadn’t thought of that…” or “good point, gonna modify my position on that…”
Guess the Right has to think they’re always right, otherwise they’d have to compromise their views and ‘moderate’ their outlook.
Someone who can read
February 9th, 2012
4:33 pm
Paul,
I would have no problem if my employer wanted to change the benefits offered. If the benefits did not meet my needs I would find employment somewhere else.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
4:35 pm
assad said Americans can be easily manipulated.
He got that right.
carlosgvv
February 9th, 2012
4:35 pm
The Catholic child-sex scandal gave the impression this is a recent thing. Almost certainly, this kind of behavior has been going on for many centuries. For every Priest caught, there are probably 10 who will never be. So, we have a group of celebate men who rape children and demand they have the final word in contraception coverage. I’m beginning to think the Earth really is the insane asylum of the Universe.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:36 pm
Well Redneck, I came home one day and our new kitty had bandages on his paws. I asked my wife “what happened?!!?”
She said “I had him declawed and deballed. Let that be a warning to you.”
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
4:36 pm
The solution is to get the employer out of providing health care. Just pay the employee and let them buy what they want to. Problem solved.
Not So Casual Observer
February 9th, 2012
4:37 pm
#1 – The Constitution was worded to protect RELIGION from the government, not the other way around. In that context the intrusion is obvious.
#2 – The Obama administration got NOTHING from the banks. Trillions of dollars were transferred in the crash and the Obama administration wants to brag about $26 Billion? This is simply another bailout of the banks since the losers will be investors – not banks. Government was the cause of the problem (as usual) and is never the solution. Wall Street is one of Obama’s largest sources of campaign funds.
#3 – Nothing could be a more clear violation of the non-existent “separation of church and state” that Liberals chant at every opportunity. Why are you Liberals now favoring a church/state partnership?
#4 – Obama is a fraud. The Cubans did not know Castro was a Socialist until the entire economy was under government rule and home owners were forced to allow strangers to live in their homes. But then again, such an event would constitute Liberal Utopia in the United States.When one of you Libs comes to my home, as directed by the local socialist party leader, prepare to disappear quietly!
#5 – The Cuban population did not believe there could be a socialist take over there either.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
4:37 pm
MD
We will just have to agree to disagree………….
No biggie. Nice chat
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:38 pm
Someone who can read
“If the benefits did not meet my needs I would find employment somewhere else.”
So in this economy you’d quit one day and walk into another job shortly thereafter with a salary and benefits package that would exceed what you left?
Really?
There’s a couple million of your fellow citizens who’d like to know your secret.
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
4:38 pm
Yes, this is overreaching, but the administration already overreached by making the requirement.
See here: http://www.getreligion.org/2012/02/frame-game-birth-control-vs-religious-liberty-again/
and here: http://waynebradley.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/being-vigilant-about-religious-freedom/ .
And scarcely a complaint? How do you know?
Someone who can read
February 9th, 2012
4:39 pm
(ir)Rational – So what is wrong with providing the coverage exactly?
What difference does it make? If they employment conditions are not abusive then why can’t they provide the benefits they choose? You guys want to control everyone.
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
4:39 pm
getalife,
The president made a case that out involvement in Libya was about humanitarian concerns and the genocide being brought upon the Libyan people was unacceptable. He also indicated that our involvement would be brief in duration. I agreed with the mission but doubted the projected brevity of our involvement. It turned out to be much longer and more costly. You’re correct when you say that Syria is more complicated than Libya, however, the bloodshed and genocide is many times greater. Iran is the complication along with Russia and China albeit with the latter two considerably minor in comparison. Russia and China both like the thorn Iran and their activities place in our side. Having said all of that I still believe we could have and should be much stronger than we have been. At least to this point.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
4:40 pm
“I’m beginning to think the Earth really is the insane asylum of the Universe.”
Or hell is empty and they are here.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:40 pm
NSCO – “#5 – The Cuban population did not believe there could be a socialist take over there either.”
Tehy also didn’t have a Constitution that seperated the different branches of Government ensuring that no single branch ( or individual) could take over the entire country. And by the way, look at the map. Cuba is just a little bit smaller than the United States.
Now, go fold some more tin foil for your hat.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
4:40 pm
It seems very reasonable that employers choose the benefits they want to provide.
In this case, they’re denying access to approved drugs. Employers can decide what general coverage to provide, like co-pays or 80% of hospital stays or whatever. Those apply across the board according to medical standards. They’re free to set general coverage.
Whey you let them decide to pick and choose based on “moral” grounds you’re opening up a can of worms. Why don’t they exclude heart bypasses if someone is obese, because they’re a glutton? Can Baptist colleges exclude people who drink? I pointed out earlier if Scientologists are in charge, we’re all screwed.
BTW, I don’t know if you’re a man, but I’ve only heard the “what’s the big deal?” so far from the male half of the species. It’s quite easy to detach yourself when it’s not YOUR coverage, it’s more of an intellectual exercise. Women overwhelmingly don’t like the idea of paying out of pocket because some celibate man running a BUSINESS, not a church, wants to impose his church’s values through economics. And I daresay you don’t ever see this applied to men, like the above example of gluttony and heart disease. It’s not even an issue.
In other words, if you don’t get it…..well, that’s your failing, and a really underwhelming argument for setting public policy. Folks like you will be distracted by the next shiny object offered up by talk radio and it’ll become a non-issue.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:41 pm
RLJ
You may want to read Jay’s recent article about what current law actually provides for in this matter.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/02/07/the-overhyped-controversy-over-contraceptives-and-the-law/
Not So Casual Observer
February 9th, 2012
4:42 pm
carlos @ 4:35,
No more insane than allowing an administration with virtually no real world experience in business making rules to define the economy. Less than 7% of the members of the Obama administration have ever been employed outside government. If you remove the Goldman Sachs criminals there may not be a single member of the administration with private experience.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:43 pm
Aquagirl – “In other words, if you don’t get it”
It’s understanable, he also believes that if one is unhappy with their benefits, they just head on down the street to the next awesome job.
jconservative
February 9th, 2012
4:44 pm
Re the comment that it is the law in 28 states:
Even without a religious exemption, religious employers can already avoid the contraceptive mandates in 28 states by self-insuring their prescription drug coverage, dropping that coverage altogether, or opting for regulation under a federal law (ERISA) that pre-empts state law.The HHS mandate closes off all these avenues of relief.”
In short, the HHS mandate says “Christians go to hell.”
90% of Christian churches and religious organizations will either drop drug coverage for employees or drop medical insurance for their employees. Or the ministers will simply refuse to obey and go to jail.
I can’t wait!!!!!!!!!
Not So Casual Observer
February 9th, 2012
4:44 pm
The first employer to offer health insurance must really feel like an idiot right now. This discussion only proves Liberals can destroy the best of intentions.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:45 pm
Someone
Are you going to share with us the secret how you’d quit one day and shortly thereafter begin work with an employer whose pay and benefits are more to your liking? Because as I said, there are millions of Americans who haven’t been able to find much of anything who’d like to know.
Frankly, that response sounds like a typical blog throw-away line that’s divorced from reality.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
4:45 pm
Recon
“humanitarian concerns ”
Regardless of who is in office that seems to be the two most used words in recent years when it comes to military involvement. While I understand that the US can’t be everything to everybody and should not be; we are selective when it comes to “humanitarian concerns” around the world.
Not a knock on your post at all. It was well thought out. Just my opinion on “humanitarian concerns” when I read your post
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
4:46 pm
Paul, I did. My response is the same. Here’s a quote from one of the articles that I linked to.
“Of course, it’s easy to ask: Why do religious groups need a conscience clause when they have the First Amendment, when they have a history of church-state law that says the government does not have the power to get entangled in doctrinal issues of this kind? The state does not have the right to say that “religion” is when people sit in pews, but not when they feed the poor, teach children and heal the sick — in institutions that are explicitly and meaningfully connected to religious traditions, laws and doctrines.”
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:46 pm
jconservative – “In short, the HHS mandate says “Christians go to hell.”
90% of Christian churches and religious organizations will either drop drug coverage for employees or drop medical insurance for their employees. Or the ministers will simply refuse to obey and go to jail.
Could you please provide a link detailing the current minister prison population over the last 13 years that the provision has been in effect here in Georgia?
Thanks!
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:47 pm
Not so Casual
Wasn’t that “Less than 7% of the members of the Obama administration have ever been employed outside government.” line pretty well debunked as “fun with numbers’ right about the time the Administration came into office? I think quite a bit of time was spent on it here.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
4:47 pm
del,
Our victory in Libya was short with zero US casualties.
They called iamanutjob back for a meeting because they seized their assets in their central bank.
Last time they did that they had a revolution remember.
I think the jets will take out those tanks pretty soon if they keep shelling their people.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
4:47 pm
Oscar — “The solution is to get the employer out of providing health care. Just pay the employee and let them buy what they want to. Problem solved.”
This will never work and Republican lawmakers know it. Here’s why.
Employers use their buying power to negotiate prices far below what you could get. They pay a portion of your health insurance premium, but for the vast majority of people, if their employer dropped their health coverage and gave them the cost they had been paying in cash, the employee couldn’t possibly get the same coverage on their own — even if they added their own premiums to the additional cash the employer was giving them.
Result: if you cut employers out of the health care picture without providing some sort of similar benefit in some other way, middle- and lower-class workers get screwed.
Sure, go ahead, Republicans. Push for that. See what happens. You’ll ensure that Democrats get both Congress and the White House for a generation.
Kamchak
February 9th, 2012
4:48 pm
The first employer to offer health insurance must really feel like an idiot right now.
It looks like someone should do some research on when/how/why benefits packages were introduced.
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
4:49 pm
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.–William F. Buckley
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/w/william_f_buckley_jr.html#ixzz1lvKuoIg2
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:51 pm
Not So Casual Observer – “This discussion only proves Liberals can destroy the best of intentions.”
It also proves that you have no concept of how safe you really are from a socialist takeover if you belive that Castro overthrowing Cuba in the 50’s could be compared to anything going on in the U.S today.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
4:51 pm
90% of Christian churches and religious organizations will either drop drug coverage for employees or drop medical insurance for their employees.
I can’t wait either, because throwing your employees under the bus to make a political point isn’t exactly going to endear churches to the masses.
Your kid needs asthma medicine? Sorry! We can’t let the whores win!
Yeah, I’d LOVE to see that.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:52 pm
RLJ
I made essentially the same point in an initial response in the earlier thread.
Given how quick it was made an issue in Congress, it does seem to me someone was spoiling for a fight. Jay’s article seems to indicate the Catholic hierarchy was looking for a launching point to ban contraceptive coverage altogether.
Gotta admire Santorum for getting the evangelical Christians to so completely drop their beliefs and adopt Catholic beliefs on birth control and abortion.
md
February 9th, 2012
4:53 pm
“I’m just curious as to how Romney could spin it. If he debates Obama, what’s he going to say. ” You want to mandate contraception coverage” to which Obama can reply. ” You did it first”. ”
For one that called others out for posting without all the facts, you may want to dig a bit deeper on the actual process MA and the Church worked through…..
“The Massachusetts regulations, the Church Amendment, and Directive 36 combine to create a number of potential loopholes and workarounds.”
Someone who can read
February 9th, 2012
4:56 pm
Paul – Are you going to share with us the secret how you’d quit one day
It is not exactly a secret. I have quit many jobs to take new ones with better benefits. I know many others who have as well.
The real secret is keeping a job when no other employer wants you.
md
February 9th, 2012
4:56 pm
“Sure he did, but how much experince do the current batch of contenders have as POTUS? Obama wasn’t running against an incumbent.”
As much as obama had 3 yrs ago………and he got elected.
So, what’s your point? That he has otjt? ok, so we train another one…..
Halftrack
February 9th, 2012
4:56 pm
Jay, You don’t go deep enough and think logically. This is a “mandate” ; not a law that allows you to either us or not use contraceptives on an Insurance plan. This is a plain and simple assault on our freedoms and that of the 1st Amendment. The two bladed sword is a protection of the State from the Church and the Church from the State. Become smart as a 5th Grader or be overwhelmed with other mandates from the State and then see where your freedom is.
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
4:58 pm
Paul, I am a evangelical and the issue is not contraception to me. The issue is one of the federal government telling any person of religious faith (and I don’t care if they are Catholic, Baptist, Jewish or Muslim) that they have to go against their conscience in order to comply with government mandates. The state does not have that right. And Jay is by no means an expert in why or how people of faith respond to this mandate. I think that he, most of the media and most liberals are clueless on those matters.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:59 pm
md -”So, what’s your point? That he has otjt? ok, so we train another one…..”
Sure we can. My point was that Obama would have had a much tougher race runing against a sitting POTUS. Since one didn’t exist, the playing field was pretty much level. In this race, you have 4 contenders that have no experience as POTUS trying to unseat the one candidate that does.
I don’t really have a dog in this fight. I have my own health plan, I’m pretty well off and retired, and I wasn’t planning on voting for Obama anyway.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
5:01 pm
“Oscar — “The solution is to get the employer out of providing health care. Just pay the employee and let them buy what they want to. Problem solved.””
So you’re willing to provide each single military person a pay increase of about $14,000 a year for medical care. And an equal amount for each family member? And do the same for the millions of retirees?
md
February 9th, 2012
5:02 pm
“They also didn’t have a Constitution that seperated the different branches of Government ensuring that no single branch ( or individual) could take over the entire country.”
Not saying we have that problem, but to name a few recently, Russia and Venezuela both had Constitutions in place prior to their current elected dictator status…….
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 9th, 2012
5:02 pm
Sure he did, but how much experince do the current batch of contenders have as POTUS? Obama wasn’t running against an incumbent
Well, some librul down at the warehouse put down some numbers that made me think a little bit:
Years of Experience as President: Obama, 3.5; Romney, 0
Number of Wars Directed as Commander in Chief: Obama 2, Romney 0
Number of Cabinets Appointed: Obama 1, Romney 0
But we’ll hold Obama’s experience against him as a Washington Insider.
Time to head for home. Have a good night everybody.
Kamchak
February 9th, 2012
5:03 pm
In this race, you have 4 contenders that have no experience as POTUS trying to unseat the one candidate that does.
Not to mention that the current front-runner lost to the guy that Obama beat in 2008.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
5:03 pm
RJL
“I think that he, most of the media and most liberals are clueless on those matters.”
So you clue us all in how all the different individuals of different beliefs and faiths are thinking about this mandate…..
Didn’t know all of you were such an homogeneous group that they elected you spokesmen for all of them on this issue……. so excuse me for not knowing……….. but do clue us all in
Doggone/GA
February 9th, 2012
5:03 pm
“The issue is one of the federal government telling any person of religious faith (and I don’t care if they are Catholic, Baptist, Jewish or Muslim) that they have to go against their conscience in order to comply with government”
But that is NOT the issue. The issue is an employer forcing their employees to follow the dictates of the EMPLOYERS religion.
Scooter
February 9th, 2012
5:03 pm
Everybody is picking on The Obama…
Paul
February 9th, 2012
5:04 pm
Someone
“It is not exactly a secret. I have quit many jobs to take new ones with better benefits. I know many others who have as well.”
Really? You’ve been job skipping and increasing your family’s economic benefit since late 2008?
Pardon my skepticism.
But hey, this is the Internet.
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
5:05 pm
Doggone/GA, If I work at a hospital or school that says Catholic on it or is name for a saint, I think I would know that they operated under religious values and doctrines. It would be a choice that I made going in.
md
February 9th, 2012
5:05 pm
“My point was that Obama would have had a much tougher race runing against a sitting POTUS. Since one didn’t exist, the playing field was pretty much level. In this race, you have 4 contenders that have no experience as POTUS trying to unseat the one candidate that does.”
I think you left out one very important variable…..Bush, and the rule by r’s for 8 years.
Take a look at historical data, and one will notice the trend is usually 4 or 8 and rarely 12 in regards to rule by one party or the other. Seems the middle can’t stomach either for long periods of time.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
5:06 pm
RLJ 4:58
Is not the key in Jay’s earlier thread that when a religion does not meet three tests when it is running a business that it is subject to rules that apply to businesses, not religions?
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
5:07 pm
“Gotta admire Santorum for getting the evangelical Christians to so completely drop their beliefs and adopt Catholic beliefs on birth control and abortion.”
Paul, Evangelical Christians have always opposed abortion or believe in its restrictions and procedure minimization.
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
5:08 pm
Let me pull out part of a quote that I mentioned above, “The state does not have the right to say that “religion” is when people sit in pews, but not when they feed the poor, teach children and heal the sick — in institutions that are explicitly and meaningfully connected to religious traditions, laws and doctrines.” These mandates violate the First Amendment in a clear and direct manner.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
5:10 pm
RLJ
What do you think about Scalia’s take on this issue and like issues?
Doggone/GA
February 9th, 2012
5:10 pm
“If I work at a hospital or school that says Catholic on it or is name for a saint, I think I would know that they operated under religious values and doctrines. It would be a choice that I made going in.”
And what if the rules were changed AFTER you began employment? An employer is an employer. There’s nothing inherently religious about operating a BUSINESS. And the bottom line is that you don’t HAVE to use that insurance section if it’s against your religion. It’s not like they’re forcing anyone to USE contraception.
I’d be interested to know their position on whether insurance should cover the cost of a vasectomy?
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
5:11 pm
RLJ@5:08, very well stated.
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
5:11 pm
Paul, It is one thing if they are running a coffee shop. That is clearly a business not related to their religious activity. However, hospitals and charities are a religious activity flowing from their beliefs of God wants them to do. To say that religious activity protected from government intrusion is confined to the place of worship is a very dangerous precedent.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
5:11 pm
RLJ
“If I work at a hospital or school that says Catholic on it or is name for a saint, I think I would know that they operated under religious values and doctrines. It would be a choice that I made going in.”
Really?
While the ramifications of Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. E.E.O.C. are still being sorted out, it’s pretty clear there are criteria that have to be met for ministerial exception to labor laws to apply.
Even in that area there are criteria. It’s not enough to say “hey, we’re run by a church, we can do what we want or it’s infringing on religion.”
Same with an employer subject to health insurance regulations.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
5:12 pm
RLJ — “Paul, I am a evangelical and the issue is not contraception to me. The issue is one of the federal government telling any person of religious faith (and I don’t care if they are Catholic, Baptist, Jewish or Muslim) that they have to go against their conscience in order to comply with government mandates. The state does not have that right.”
Of course it does. The state requires that people pay taxes to support wars to which they are morally opposed.
You’re not compelled or forced to use birth control in any way, shape or form, so I fail to see how your religious principles are being impacted one bit.
saywhat?
February 9th, 2012
5:12 pm
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
4:58 pm
“The issue is one of the federal government telling any person of religious faith (and I don’t care if they are Catholic, Baptist, Jewish or Muslim) that they have to go against their conscience in order to comply with government mandates. The state does not have that right.”
_____________________________________________________________________
You are wrong. The State DOES have that right. It exercises that right every day, has since before you were born, and will for long after you die. Do you need me to provide you examples, or can you think a little and come up with some for yourself?
______________________________________________________________________
“I think that he, most of the media and most liberals are clueless on those matters.”
________________________________________________________________________
Are you claiming to be a member of the media, or a liberal?
carlosgvv
February 9th, 2012
5:13 pm
Recon – 5:07
Now if Santorum and Gingrich can just get them to believe in banning birth control pills.
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
5:13 pm
Doggone/GA, That is a hypothetical red herring. Catholics haven’t changed their position on contraceptives in years. And do you consider Catholic charities to be businesses?
TaxPayer
February 9th, 2012
5:13 pm
I just don’t see the big deal here with Republicans and Catholics and whomever and this health insurance mandate. If you object to offering coverage for any particular thing that gnaws at your beliefs, then just don’t offer insurance. Let someone else do it. You know, people that either care about other people or people that see it as a potentially profitable venture. Whatever floats your capitalist boat. I mean, it’s no different than that argument about mandated auto insurance. If you don’t want to be forced to buy the auto insurance, don’t drive.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
5:14 pm
Recon
“Paul, Evangelical Christians have always opposed abortion or believe in its restrictions and procedure minimization.”
Really?
Really?
Evangelical Christians have always opposed abortion in cases of rape or incest?
Better tell Scout, ’cause his position was ‘kill the kid and claim self defense for the mother.”
Seriously.
josef
February 9th, 2012
5:14 pm
If we had free universal health care under the government’s auspices, this would not be an issue. This is what happens when you go half-assed and sucking up to the insurance companies. As md would say, consequences of our choices…so squirm, Obama and Company…
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
5:15 pm
“’d be interested to know their position on whether insurance should cover the cost of a vasectomy?”
Since it’s elective surgery unrelated to a persons health I’d say it should not be covered. IMO
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
5:16 pm
saywhat? If the government has violated that right, it is in the wrong, or the First Amendment mean nothing. I was a journalism major. It didn’t take me long to see that it would be an uphill struggle in that world for a person of faith. I suggest you look at getreligion.org to get an idea of how much the media doesn’t know about religion.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
5:17 pm
Let me pull out part of a quote that
…..you pulled from somebody’s wordpress blog.You likee? Post it on your wall, write it into a song, do whatever pleases you. But thinking that’s an actual point we should accept—-whooooeeeee.
No wonder cons don’t like Universities….they cite a wordpress blog and get all butthurt because everyone doesn’t accept it as gospel. Smart kids learn better by the time they’re 19 or so, but cons keep right on thinking everyone else believes online meanderings and forwarded e-mails at face value.
You need to hang out with Scout, y’all can have a field day building your own little con world out of rubbish.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
5:17 pm
“As Michelle Goldberg points out, it’s hard to argue that the Catholic Church is somehow suddenly burdened by a rule virtually identical to the rules it complies with in twenty-eight other states. Currently lacking our future moon republics promised by Newt Gingrich, that’s easily the majority of states.”
http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/thank-scalia-for-your-birth-control-seriously
Geo
February 9th, 2012
5:17 pm
This is great! The Administration has launched face-first into a minefield and the liberal kin have gone apoplectic trying rationalize it for public consumption.
This is almost as fun as listening to Madonna try to speak with a British accent – but do carry on.
Doggone/GA
February 9th, 2012
5:17 pm
“However, hospitals and charities are a religious activity flowing from their beliefs of God wants them to do”
But they are NOT inherently religious institutions. If the work they did included relgious indoctirination it might be, but hospitals and charities don’t orginarily include proselytizing.
Doggone/GA
February 9th, 2012
5:19 pm
“Catholics haven’t changed their position on contraceptives in years. And do you consider Catholic charities to be businesses?”
If they employ non-Catholics, and their charitable functions go to non-Catholics…yes, I consider them to be a form of business. There ARE such things as non-profit businesses after all.
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
5:19 pm
Paul, I am not saying that religious organizations can do what they want regardless of the law. I am saying the that the law, and in this case, a mandate by a cabinet official, should not require them to act against their clear religious doctrine.
josef
February 9th, 2012
5:19 pm
BTW
What kind of insurance plan does the Christian Science Monitor offer?
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH
February 9th, 2012
5:20 pm
Jay, did your poet daughter move back home? Gotta be tough for poetry majors to find a job these days.
Doggone/GA
February 9th, 2012
5:20 pm
“Since it’s elective surgery unrelated to a persons health I’d say it should not be covered. IMO”
And so is taking contraceptive drugs elective. That’s the WHOLE point.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
5:20 pm
RLJ
Thanks for speaking for all people of all faiths
They really knew they had a winner when you were picked
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
5:21 pm
Doggone/GA–are you saying that the only place where religious practice and belief is protected is the place of worship? If so, can you not see that is a dangerous precedent?
Paul
February 9th, 2012
5:21 pm
RLJ
“hat is clearly a business not related to their religious activity. However, hospitals and charities are a religious activity flowing from their beliefs of God wants them to do.”
Sure they are. And while admirable, I do not see how they meet the test of current law as was outlined:
“Those rules do not apply to what is known as “a religious employer,” defined as an employer that “(1) Has the inculcation of religious values as its purpose; (2) primarily employs persons who share its religious tenets; (3) primarily serves persons who share its religious tenets.”
A church, mosque, synagogue or other house of worship would qualify for such an exemption. However, a church-run university, hospital, day-care center, etc. — entities that do not have the inculcation of religious values as its purpose, that do not primarily employ persons who share its religious tenets; and do not primarily serve persons who share its religious tenets — would not be exempt.
Those entities are performing a secular function, in the secular world, and employing in most cases people with a wide variety of religious beliefs. Therefore, the people working in those entities deserve the same degree of legal protection as their fellow Americans.”
Heard a Catholic priest some weeks back, interviewed on TV on another issue, state that when they serve hungry and homeless at shelters they do not ask their religion as it interferes with their work of charity. He also said they could conceivably have to serve only Catholics if they didn’t want to comply with the law.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
5:22 pm
Doggone — “But they are NOT inherently religious institutions. If the work they did included relgious indoctirination it might be, but hospitals and charities don’t orginarily include proselytizing.”
Not only that, but Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, writing in a 1990 SCOTUS decision, said that if a law is written with neutral and generally applicable principles, and lacks any explicit antagonism or hostility toward religious practice, then it cannot be said to be burdensome towards religious practice.
Result: one of the religious right’s closest allies already preempted their legal argument on this 22 years ago.
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
5:23 pm
Paul, my point is, the law is wrong. It is unconstitutional in my opinion. The limitation of protection of religious conscience to the place of worship is a dangerous precedent.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
5:23 pm
RLJ — “Doggone/GA–are you saying that the only place where religious practice and belief is protected is the place of worship? If so, can you not see that is a dangerous precedent?”
Talk to the Supreme Court. They’ve already spoken to that, and it doesn’t look good for your argument.
JohnnyReb
February 9th, 2012
5:25 pm
From the WSJ
With the transformers (Obama), it never stops. In September, the Obama Labor Department proposed rules to govern what work children can do on farms. After an outcry from rural communities over the realities of farm traditions, the department is now reconsidering a “parental exemption.” Good luck to the farmers.
The Catholic Church has stumbled into the central battle of the 2012 presidential campaign: What are the limits to Barack Obama’s transformative presidency? The Catholic left has just learned one answer: When Mr. Obama says, “Everyone plays by the same set of rules,” it means they conform to his rules. What else could it mean?
Anyone who signs up for more of this deal (four more years of Obama) by assuming that it (Obama administration) will never force them to fall into line is getting what they deserve.
For complete piece, go here
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204136404577211280758375336.html
Not So Casual Observer
February 9th, 2012
5:25 pm
Paul,
Since you seem intent on carrying the liberal banner here why not answer an earlier question I posed? When convenient, Liberals scream “separation of church and state”, yet here the state wishes to impose upon religion and those with deeply held religious tenets.
There is not one problem in this country that is not caused by liberalism, simple as that. A 50+ year old “gift” by an employer to his employees is now a function of government? Government believes a power has been granted to demand a person or employer must provide health insurance. Too bad you liberals do not believe in caring for yourselves.
Jm
February 9th, 2012
5:25 pm
Obama is incompetent
The whole middle east is about to blow up in multiple ways and he has no idea what to do.
Geo
February 9th, 2012
5:26 pm
He’s gonna send Hillary with her new hair-do.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
5:27 pm
NSCO — “yet here the state wishes to impose upon religion and those with deeply held religious tenets.”
No, the state is saying that ‘everyone plays by the same set of rules,’ and the Supreme Court largely agrees.
Doggone/GA
February 9th, 2012
5:27 pm
“The limitation of protection of religious conscience to the place of worship is a dangerous precedent”
But this is not an issue of limitation of religious conscience. It is an issue of FORCING one groups religious beliefs on others who do not share those beliefs. Again, and again, no one is FORCING anyone to USE contraception. But to refuse to pay for insurance for your employees just because IT pays for contraception is violating the rights of those employees who do not share your beliefs.
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
5:28 pm
“And so is taking contraceptive drugs elective. That’s the WHOLE point.”
If you agree it’s elective than why should we have a federal government mandate that it has to be provided in the first place.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
5:30 pm
RLJ
“I am not saying that religious organizations can do what they want regardless of the law. I am saying the that the law, and in this case, a mandate by a cabinet official, should not require them to act against their clear religious doctrine.”
And if it’s in conjunction with their church organization, say their organizations that teach Catholicism and employ mostly Catholics and all that, I agree.
As has been pointed out, they may not approve of birth control. Fine. But if 75% of the employees of one of their enterprises are Baptist, they’d effectively be imposing their religious beliefs on their Baptist employees.
You mentioned a fine line or slippery slope earlier. Not trying to be argumentative, but I can see the flip side argument if this doesn’t go thru. If the Catholic Church doesn’t provide X because it would permit employees to engage in activities of which it does not approve, essentially forcing employees to comply with Catholic doctrine, can the Church also compel employees to take overt action to comply with Catholic teaching, such as attending daily Mass on premises?
I think that’s why the law draws the lines as it does – to prevent such things.
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
5:30 pm
Is the law written neutrally with generally applicable principles? The mandate that was specific to Catholic organizations was not.
Aquagirl, state an argument, not snark. You give liberals a bad name. At least, Paul, Doggone and Joe Hussein are making points. I can respect that. I just want to present a different side.
Anyhow, have a good evening. I am going out with my wife and daughter.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
5:30 pm
the law is wrong. It is unconstitutional in my opinion.
Oh, well, screw the Supreme Court, legal precedent, law, the Constitution, and everything else. WE’VE GOT AN OPINION HERE, FOLKS!
Doggone/GA
February 9th, 2012
5:31 pm
“are you saying that the only place where religious practice and belief is protected is the place of worship? If so, can you not see that is a dangerous precedent?”
Nope. Just to give you an example on a very personal level: my belief in Christian princples leads me to the opinion that the death sentence should be abolished, because it denies a person the opportunity to repent their sins and actions. That is my religion INFORMING my opinion. But if this country should abolish the death sentence and substitute a ruling that such prisoners should HAVE to go through religious teaching – THAT I would oppose. Because that would be FORCING religion on those people.
This is a similar case – people wanting to FORCE their religious opinions on others who do not share them.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
5:31 pm
Recon — “If you agree it’s elective than why should we have a federal government mandate that it has to be provided in the first place.”
COVERAGE has to be provided for it.
The drugs themselves are elective.
Come now, Recon, I know you follow that distinction.
josef
February 9th, 2012
5:31 pm
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH
February 9th, 2012
5:20 pm
Jay, did your poet daughter move back home? Gotta be tough for poetry majors to find a job these days.
*******
Well, well, well, ain’t you just plumb tacky? And, no, not as tough as you might think…you know, fluency in the written language. Lots of companies are looking for that.A good editor is hard to fine. But, from what I understand, she’s doing pretty well at what she’s chosen to do with her life…
Not So Casual Observer
February 9th, 2012
5:31 pm
Johnny @ 5:25,
Obama has declared he will decide what is, and is not, Constitutional.
Also, see Butch Cassidy comment @ 4:51 for an insight to the Left Loon thought process. Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat history – that would be you Butch.
TaxPayer
February 9th, 2012
5:33 pm
Your religious freedom extends all the way around and through your own body. Not your neighbor’s.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
5:34 pm
josef
It appears the First Church of Christ, Scientist, provides their religiously-based medical treatment AND standard medical in their benefits package.
“Healthcare Plans (Christian Science Practitioner and Nursing Care, Medical, Dental and Vision)”
http://members.christianscience.com/careers/benefits/
Choice. Ain’t it grand?
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
5:34 pm
RLJ — “Is the law written neutrally with generally applicable principles? The mandate that was specific to Catholic organizations was not.”
Considering that the Catholic Church *already* abides by virtually identical requirements in 28 states and already has done so for years, I don’t credit your claim. It has only been when the Federal government moved to make those requirements nationwide that the church started to get restive.
If it’s so offensive to the church and its membership, then how come y’all didn’t get this upset in any of the 28 states where these same requirements are ALREADY in place? I’m sorry, RLJ, but your outrage seems manufactured to me. Maybe it’s genuine, and maybe you didn’t realize the restrictions were already so widely in place — but the church certainly can’t argue that. They’ve known for years.
TaxPayer
February 9th, 2012
5:35 pm
You Republicans try not to go all hyperbolic on us. You might break free of earth’s gravitational attraction and beat Newt to the moon and that would be so embarassing for him.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
5:35 pm
And in more impodent and also more devastating news today the SEC may be ending the yearly Auburn- Georgia rivalry and the Alabama-Tennessee yearly rivalry. This is a travety of epic proportions. Someone get Doomy to the con fainting couch.
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
5:35 pm
“Not only that, but Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, writing in a 1990 SCOTUS decision, said that if a law is written with neutral and generally applicable principles, and lacks any explicit antagonism or hostility toward religious practice, then it cannot be said to be burdensome towards religious practice.”
I’m not a lawyer much less a Constitutional lawyer but I don’t see how Scalia’s ruling in anyway supports the administrations argument. In fact it appears to me that it rule against it.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
5:37 pm
RLJ 523
Sounds like another issue for the Health Care Reform hearing in a couple months.
TaxPayer
February 9th, 2012
5:41 pm
Someone get Doomy to the con fainting couch.
Hate to be the one, hehe, to pull the couch out from under you but your policy does not cover fainting couch use. On the bright side though, it does entitle you to a 10% discount at Rooms To Go.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
5:42 pm
Recon — “I’m not a lawyer much less a Constitutional lawyer but I don’t see how Scalia’s ruling in anyway supports the administrations argument. In fact it appears to me that it rule against it.”
Well, then, perhaps you should read the case and the decision. The case is Employment Division v. Smith, 494 US 872 (1990). Here’s a snippet from Scalia’s decision:
“It is a permissible reading of the [free exercise clause]…to say that if prohibiting the exercise of religion is not the object of the [law] but merely the incidental effect of a generally applicable and otherwise valid provision, the First Amendment has not been offended….To make an individual’s obligation to obey such a law contingent upon the law’s coincidence with his religious beliefs, except where the State’s interest is ‘compelling’ – permitting him, by virtue of his beliefs, ‘to become a law unto himself,’ contradicts both constitutional tradition and common sense.’ To adopt a true ‘compelling interest’ requirement for laws that affect religious practice would lead towards anarchy.”
IOW, you don’t get a pass if the law *incidentally* impacts your religious beliefs. And if the law isn’t written with *specific* malice or antagonism towards your religious beliefs, then the impact is automatically incidental.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_division_v_smith
Kamchak
February 9th, 2012
5:42 pm
Aquagirl, state an argument, not snark. You give liberals a bad name.
A self-professed evangelical being judgmental?
I’ll act shocked and awed if it will make you feel any better.
josef
February 9th, 2012
5:42 pm
PAUL
Thanks for that link…of course I was just being EOI, but I’ve always been amused by the misunderstandings and out and out ignorant prejudice and bigotry so many express when talking about the Christian Scientists and their approach to this question…they don’t live in caves!
“This man’s been run over! Quick, get him to a hospital!”
“He’s a Christian Scientist.”
“Quick! Get him to a reading room!”
Paul
February 9th, 2012
5:43 pm
Not so casual
“Since you seem intent on carrying the liberal banner here why not answer an earlier question I posed? ”
Ummm…. I’m asking questions to get to the heart of the matter. So far, the only one who’s providing me food for thought is RLJ.
And I have to carry the liberal banner today. It’s Thursday.
But as to your question: “When convenient, Liberals scream “separation of church and state”, yet here the state wishes to impose upon religion and those with deeply held religious tenets.”
Funny, I thought liberals were fine with people praying in churches without any government mandates on how long to pray, how to pray, who to pray to.
But I do think liberals also support government upholding the Constitution by telling people of faith they can’t impose their faith on others in nonchurch settings, like football games, high school assemblies, city council meetings, that sort of thing.
It’s many conservatives who want the church and state to blend together in those cases, not be separate.
Whaeema
February 9th, 2012
5:45 pm
Stupid, mindless partisan drivel from Bookman to provide a smoke screen for Obamacare takeover of our rights and his wilful decison to upend religious freedom in the name of his party’s left wing.
Brosephus - "Ever tried teaching a cinder block how to bark?"
February 9th, 2012
5:47 pm
Kinda sad though. I always knew the sheeple were anti-intellectual and especially anti-american but I wouldn’t have thought they would stoop to the level of mocking one of the great founders of this nation. Then again why should I be surprised?
Doom
I think you’re missing the entire point altogether. There’s no mocking of any of the Founding Fathers. If anything, it’s the mocking of the “I said it, therefore it’s a fact” type stuff that goes on here. The quotes are just a humorus way of showing that, just because it can be proven with a link, that doesn’t necessarily make it correct. The fact that you see it the way you do either means you have no sense of humor, or you’re so involved in the liberal/conservative split that you refuse to lighten up. Insulting your fellow Americans won’t endear you to anyone, except for those who live to do just that very thing.
ragnar danneskjold
February 9th, 2012
5:47 pm
Obama’s Regulation an All-Out War Against Organized Religion
Paul
February 9th, 2012
5:47 pm
josef
“of course I was just being EOI”
It takes one to know one!
but be careful, Not So Casual will accuse you of being a….. liberal!
I like the Christian Science emphasis on the power of Mind and the impact it has on the physical.
Like John Travolta said in Phenomenon when he was rolling a pencil on a table without touching it: “It’s all energy, Bob.”
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
5:48 pm
Taxpayer,
I won’t be the only one needing a fainting couch. Going to be a lot of pi$$ed off folks over this. As trivial as it is in the great scheme of things these 2 rivalry games are culturally very important to people around these 3 states. The SEC commissioner may need to be cane poled 6,000,000 times if this goes through.
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
5:49 pm
“The drugs themselves are elective.”
Joe, if you suffered a heart attack and were sufficiently capable of declining treatment and therefore died, it could be said that you elected not to accept said treatment. You can also elect not to take prescribed medications that keeps you alive and otherwise healthy. Now when it come to med’s that allow for sex without the potential consequence it’s something quite different from a health care perspective.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
5:51 pm
Obama’s Regulation an All-Out War Against Organized Religion
And We Know If Every Word Is Capitalized, Truthiness Increases By 130%.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
5:52 pm
“Truthiness.”
Now there’s a cool word.
JKL2
February 9th, 2012
5:55 pm
doggone- And so is taking contraceptive drugs elective. That’s the WHOLE point
I like to drink beer. I think the government needs to pass a law forcing you to buy my beer because it’s my right to drink it. That is your point right? Using the government to take money from one group to subsidize another groups bad behavior.
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
5:55 pm
The employer has the option of paying the fine and not providing health insurance. That is what they should do. If individuals bought their own insurance the market would drive the price down to something they could afford, just like the market has done in home and car insurance. That’s how capitalism is supposed to work. People can buy health insurance with a high deductable for low premiums.
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
5:56 pm
Jay:
But this is no problem ?
Headline: “Minneapolis helps Muslim businesses follow Sharia law”
“Loans that collect interest are considered by some to be sinful under Sharia law.”
http://www.mndaily.com/2012/02/07/minneapolis-helps-muslim-businesses-follow-sharia-law
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
5:56 pm
Brocephus,
Nope. I’m pretty lightened up and don’t take myself or anything else too seriously. I see your point and that may be true to a degree. But I think part of what got it started is mockery around some quotes that Jefferson said which were pretty wise observations but which don’t fit into the worldview of the kook left. And therefore of course they ridiculed his statements. The rest of the statements I do see what you’re saying and I don’t take them seriously at all- except that there just plain lame. The lameness and stupidity factor is the only thing I detest about all the other TJ quotes- not the mockery of the man himself. They just seem so 6th graderish. Then again why in the hell should I expect anything less from the far kook left?
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
5:56 pm
This is all very simple:
You don’t HAVE to work there if you don’t like their plan. Go somewhere else.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
5:57 pm
Recon — “Joe, if you suffered a heart attack and were sufficiently capable of declining treatment and therefore died, it could be said that you elected not to accept said treatment. You can also elect not to take prescribed medications that keeps you alive and otherwise healthy. Now when it come to med’s that allow for sex without the potential consequence it’s something quite different from a health care perspective.”
Irrelevant to the larger point. The “potential consequence” you speak of is a matter of indidivual choice and has little impact on the “health care perspective.” The only time it becomes an issue is when the patient’s health might be affected in some way due to using it. For example, my wife no longer uses BC due to her stroke risk. For younger, healthier women, to use or not use BC is generally a personal choice. Your attempt to politicize it is really quite irrelevant.
Orange12
February 9th, 2012
5:58 pm
I only hope the damage is done and POTUS loses enough votes to ensure his defeat in the 2012 Presidential election.
Kamchak
February 9th, 2012
5:58 pm
“Tastes great!
Less filling!”
– Thomas Jefferson
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
5:59 pm
JKL2 — “That is your point right? Using the government to take money from one group to subsidize another groups bad behavior.”
And this is what it comes down to — people wanting to control the behavior of others because they think it’s “bad.”
josef
February 9th, 2012
6:00 pm
PAUL
Heh, heh! That’s okay. I’m a “closet conservative” according to some and “one angry queen” according to others!
On topic, among the rational there are some good and interesting arguments being made on both “sides” here…others? A lot of memos…
As for the Christian Scientists, we are only just now beginning to acknowledge in the medical profession the impact of “prayer-positive mental attidude” and what have you. As I’ve mentioned before, I’ve taken part in studies of “attitude” and recovery. As my favorite cardiologist said when asking me to take part, “you’re supposed to be dead and you ain’t. We want to know why!”
Well, being at peace with the Cr-ator and enjoying the hell out of life accounts, imuo, for no small part of it…and it’s been really interesting to talk about those things with the science professionals…
that same cardiologist said, “I’m supposed to expect you to accept my approach, but deny you yours? I don’t think so. It’s both and one of the things I’m seeing is when a patient combines both, their recovery is more rapid.” Of course, he’s EOI!
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
6:00 pm
Headline: “Federal Judge Dismisses PETA Lawsuit Claiming SeaWorld Whales Are Slaves”
Time for the underground swimming pool !
http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2012/02/09/federal-judge-dismisses-peta-lawsuit-claiming-seaworld-whales-are-slaves/
Paul
February 9th, 2012
6:01 pm
Oscar
“. If individuals bought their own insurance the market would drive the price down to something they could afford, just like the market has done in home and car insurance”
Don’t try that argument here in Texas. Home insurance increases were (ahem) going thru the roof. When the state wanted to review, they got blocked at every turn.
There are numerous areas were only a couple of health insurance companies offer policies. Obamacare mandates review for increases exceeding – about 10% a years. Our areas were seeing increases well in excess of that. In fact, in our ‘low regulation, no government interference” state, the state board charged with overseeing increases did not even look at annual increases unless they exceeded 50% a year.
Free markets sound great. If you ever find one, let us know.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
6:02 pm
Truthiness? Reminds me of the various versions of liberal truth.
Libs and Obama do have they flexible truth, Obama gots his variable truth, his adjustable truth, his versatile truth, his stretchable truth, his changeable truth, and when he wants to drop all pretense of Orwellian truth he just comes out with his straight up boolsheet.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
6:02 pm
That is your point right? Using the government to take money from one group to subsidize another groups bad behavior.
Ah, now we cut to the heart of the matter…..we’re subsidizing sluttery.
Some of y’all are so dried up I’m surprised you haven’t blown away like tumbleweeds.
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
6:03 pm
Headline: “Virginia school district considers cross-dressing ban for students”
Hummmmm ………….. that would have just been handled appropriately by the shop teacher when I was in school !
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/09/virginia-school-district-considers-ban-on-cross-dressing-students/?test=latestnews#ixzz1lvdcsbYE
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
6:03 pm
TD
I’m with you on the rivalry deal….. Growing up in Columbus and being only 30 miles from Allbarn but being a huge UGA fan…….. That is a great rivalry that will be missed
Paul
February 9th, 2012
6:07 pm
josef
I’ve mentioned a dear family friend here before. Did a lot in Divine Science, which is very much about attitude – the spiritual, physical and mental intertwined. He passed on some months back. You might enjoy his obituary – especially the style of it.
BTW – the last cancer he was cured of – was extremely rare, half dozen cases a year, nearly always fatal and his recovery was written up in a medical journal. He was an amazing man.
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/mercurynews/obituary.aspx?n=jack-holland&pid=152762861
I think you would have liked him.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
6:07 pm
Scout
The article you posted states that interest is still charged. It is just done in a lump sum fee and added to the loan. No one has been forced to accept those type loans nor have the 54 loans come “interest” free. Call it a lump sum or interest throughout, it is still interest
Paul
February 9th, 2012
6:09 pm
Scout
Didn’t read the Foxnews link, but what’s with the crossdressing ban? Someone doesn’t like girls in pants?
josef
February 9th, 2012
6:10 pm
BROSEPHUS
In relation to your post at SE and the comments yesterday on “nutty” Mississippi having a bill before its legislature to change the name of the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America…I said then there was more to this than meets to eye…
Way to go Sen. Holland!
http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20120209/NEWS010504/120209019/-1/Nletter03/Bill-renames-Gulf-of-Mexico-as-Gulf-of-America?source=nletter-news
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
6:14 pm
They BOTH suck:
“The article you posted states that interest is still charged. It is just done in a lump sum fee and added to the loan. No one has been forced to accept those type loans nor have the 54 loans come “interest” free. Call it a lump sum or interest throughout, it is still interest.”
………… and you don’t HAVE to work at a Catholic Hospital.
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
6:14 pm
Paul:
Too many guys on the football team wearing dresses I guess.
JKL2
February 9th, 2012
6:15 pm
Joe mama- And this is what it comes down to — people wanting to control the behavior of others because they think it’s “bad.”
I don’t want to control their behavior, I just don’t want to pay for it. If you want to have sex, buy your own contraception. If you don’t want to buy contraception, come up with a plan for how you are going to take care of your kid. Popping out babies and saying “now you need to pay me to take care care of this kid because you wouldn’t buy me contraception” isn’t a good answer either.
Bottom line is take resposibility for your own actions. Poor planning on your part does not make it an emergency to deal with on my part.
josef
February 9th, 2012
6:16 pm
PAUL
“He spent a little time with the Dalia Lama in Nepal and with Carl Jung in Zurich.”
Yep. I think I would have liked to have known him! And that curriculum vitae! Wow…
Obama = Corruption
February 9th, 2012
6:19 pm
Obama and the far left democrat radicals are at war with American Values, Standards, Family Values. and Christianity. Most of the liberal progressives don’t beleive in GOD and some of them even hate GOD. The progressives are attacking all parts of American Society and won’t stop until they completely destroy all American and Christian vales period. The communist Supreme Judge Ginsgurg wants to get rid of the US Constitution and replace it with some kind of Socialist one. She said this on CNN and when she when to Egypt. Of course Jay and his partners-in crime the leftist mainstreet media won’t say a word to protect American Society.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
6:19 pm
Scout
“………… and you don’t HAVE to work at a Catholic Hospital.”
You attempt to imply some evil Sharia law conspiracy and when it is quickly debunked, the above is you reply?
Great answer……….. Do hope you are doing well?
granny godzilla
February 9th, 2012
6:24 pm
the best idea i have seen in these 14 pages came early on and i can’t quote it exactly….
…Things ARE improving so all the extreme right in this nation has are “social issues”…
I promise you. If a uterus can be regulated, we must and can
regulate seminal vesicles.
OSV. Don’t dismiss potential life with the wave of your hand.
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
6:24 pm
They BOTH suck:
No ………….. you have it backwards but that’s o.k.
This one won’t pass Constitutional muster. Not by a long shot.
josef
February 9th, 2012
6:24 pm
Obama = Corruption
“Of course Jay and his partners-in crime the leftist mainstreet media won’t say a word to protect American Society.”
They provide you with a protected forum to spout all the inanity you choose, don’t they? If that’s not an American value, then what is?
Get Real
February 9th, 2012
6:26 pm
Bosch…..ditto for your afternoon comment
granny godzilla
February 9th, 2012
6:28 pm
Attention Pro Obama Forces
We are now planning to attack American values with Marshmallow cannons
designed by grade schoolers.
Alert the hot fudge brigade and the sprinkle battalions.
Let’s whip some cream!
ld
February 9th, 2012
6:30 pm
You misunderstand; “religious liberty” is NOT what the religious right-wing-nuts want–they want their brand of religious tyranny enacted into law– no great wonder the Islamic nations see no problem w/their own religious tyranny.
The current majority in Islamic countries will stay Islamic because they do not tolerate any other ‘faith’–even if their laws give any nod to freedom, they do nothing to punish anyone abusing those of a different faith, including running them out of town. Many non-Muslims were forced to leave Iraq after W and his neo-con advisers decided to “liberate” it.
In the US, though, religious freedom is, supposedly, guaranteed, and any immigrant–even illegal–of any faith that walks into any ER in the US about to give birth MUST, by law, be given care. And we are doing nothing about illegal immigration. And we seem to be doing nothing to assure that those that immigrate to the US want to live w/religious freedom–unless, of course, they, like the GOP far right-wing-nuts consider having their religious dogma as law to be religious freedom. For these reasons, it is entirely possible that in the not so distant future it will be Hispanic Catholics–answering to the POPE in the Vatican–that could be the majority. If/when they are “Americanized” and their birthrate decreases as have the birthrate of other, (economic) middle class, Anglo Saxon populations, then it is even possible that the many Muslims could one day–by virtue of sheer numbers– be a serious political force in US elections–especially if funding from oil rich nations are injected into the election process.
The GOP “evangelicals” that now want it to be acceptable to have their dogma enacted into law are doing nothing less than guaranteeing that extremists will eventually TRY to become the majority and then change the religion-infested laws w/their own dogma.
ld
February 9th, 2012
6:31 pm
JKL2 (6:15 pm)
Amen.
granny godzilla
February 9th, 2012
6:31 pm
BOSCH!!!
Miss you.
Could use your sage elder care advice again.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
6:31 pm
Scout
In terms of the contraceptive issue, the Administration has already signaled a compromise of sorts can be worked out. I doubt we will be seeing any SC cases related to this. This will be yesterday’s news before long; one way or another.
As far as the article I replied too……… That program has been in place for a few years and unless someone was charged a totally different interest fee or lump sum for the same principle, that story is just people crying about nothing. Now if that is not the case and the interest charged is lower than I too have a problem with it, regardless of who it is.
Obama = Corruption
February 9th, 2012
6:31 pm
josef, No Jay will kick you off his blogg if you prove him wrong and blogg the truth. Isn’t that so TruthBe. But Jay will never kick any of you liberal progressive democrat obamajuice drinkers off no matter how wrong or hateful you are. Just ask getalife today when she was soooooooooo ugly to the Catholic Church. Well Jay what about that????????
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
6:33 pm
I don’t want to control their behavior, I just don’t want to pay for it.
Having babies is pretty expensive too, we could save a lot more money cutting that out of healthcare plans. Heck, just come right out and say it—-if you don’t have those bits, you ain’t paying for anything connected to them.
And cons wonder why this isn’t causing a Komen-like outcry on the internet. Maybe it’s because it’s as transparent as glass. Most of us don’t have a creepy punishment oriented attitude toward sex. People who do are amazed—Amazed! that anyone would stand up for such hedonistic godless behavior.
Seriously, your attitude is leaking out all over the place and it ain’t pretty.
Obama = Corruption
February 9th, 2012
6:33 pm
Granny we know what you want to whip, Hows your girl CT?
F. Sinkwich
February 9th, 2012
6:34 pm
Are any of you lib ilks claiming this Id (short for) idiot?
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
6:34 pm
Jay! Can you hear me, Jay?
Sue
February 9th, 2012
6:35 pm
I remember how Bookman told us that the increase in the minimum wage would have no effect on the employablity of younger, especially minority workers. The AJC has piece today about the extremely high rates of unemployment of young minority workers.
Bookman has no credilbity. He is just a parrot for his masters.
This particular column is particularly shameful as he is lying about the real issue which is freedom of conscience and has a long pattern of lying about the reality of the overreaching health care reform act.
LIberty is draining away at the hands of Obama and the left. More and more we are being controlled and dictated to by the government in every domain of life.
Obama = Corruption
February 9th, 2012
6:35 pm
What about Rolan Martin being thrown under the leftest media bus from CNN?
josef
February 9th, 2012
6:37 pm
ld
@ 6:30
That’s one is funny! Them Muslims immigrants sound an awful lot like them Jews of the 1880s!
And Mexicans answering to the Pope? Have you any idea of just HOW secular the Mexican constitiution IS? AND how enforced it is?
Johnny Five
February 9th, 2012
6:39 pm
From the level of conservative poutrage and whining on here, you would think that Obama’s evail Socialist Youth Corp henchmen will be forcing everyone to wear condoms, personally inserting that diaphragm into uteri, or shoving that birth control pills down everyone’s throats…
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
6:40 pm
“The “potential consequence” you speak of is a matter of indidivual choice and has little impact on the “health care perspective.”
Irrelevant? Bingo on the above and thanks for helping to make my point.
BTW…your reply to my view of the Scalia ruling proves that you’re not a lawyer either. You should at least know that the law is all about precedent and it’s interpretation. That ruling can be interpreted to go against the mandate argument and its constitutional legality.
ld
February 9th, 2012
6:41 pm
The next US president is likely to appoint at least two Supreme Court judges.
This independent voter has no great affection for our current inept inglorious leader, and I would prefer to vote for someone w/a more libertarian bent on social issues (and on guns and drug issues) and a more reasoned and moderate view on economic issues as well as a more pragmatic view on international issues. But, I also expect Georgia to again follow its “bible belt” leanings toward the GOP.
However,
Any woman that wants any of the top-tier GOP candidates to appoint those judges is either being very short-sighted with regard to the rights of their female children, grandchildren, etc. — or she is of the “M” ilk of an S&M bent of mind.
Midori
February 9th, 2012
6:41 pm
Attention Pro Obama Forces
We are now planning to attack American values with Marshmallow cannons
designed by grade schoolers.
Sgt. Midori reporting for duty!!!
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
6:42 pm
“Socialist Youth Corp henchmen”
That’s about the funniest thing I’ve heard on this blog!
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
6:43 pm
Midori, you need to dump that boyfriend of yours and come to your senses!
Tealiban Party
February 9th, 2012
6:43 pm
I am convinced President Obama is actually a Republican!
First, he introduces Romneycare to the nation, and now he is using the same Contraception Coverage rules as the Georgia General Assembly!!!
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
6:46 pm
What’s important to remember about this whole brou-ha-ha is that it was law under King Dumbass the First’s reign.
You cain’t be serious about that, Sooth! Oh, no? Look it up!
josef
February 9th, 2012
6:47 pm
Obama = Corruption
Jay kicks off people who are personally abusive. He doesn’t kick off people who simply disagree with him. I disagree with him regularly on certain points and he’s not one to back down even when presented with a counter argument puncturing holes in his own sometimes disturbingly orthodox conservative perceptions…but, you just don’t like him out of hand…a limited viewpoint from a limited mind…and if I were YOU, I’d be a bit more judicious in the use of the second person pronoun…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
6:48 pm
I see we have Scout confessing that the only thing that was keeping him from wearing dresses when he grew up was some shop teacher who had no training in psychology or in sexual issues and thankfully that primitive abuse kept him in the closet. Why by the time he joined the Marines, he almost never wore dresses! Did I guess that right Scout? I mean that is what you are suggesting from your own experience right? You wouldn’t be imposing your own phobias on others?
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
6:48 pm
I am convinced President Obama is actually a Republican!
His father was Republican, it’s on the Kenyan birth certificate.
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
6:48 pm
Obama = Corruption :
Ginsburg has debased the very Constitution she was sworn to uphold.
She has vacated her right to sit on the court in my opinion.
ld
February 9th, 2012
6:48 pm
josef
I was only acknowledging that more of the illegals from south of the border are Catholic than the current, (Protestant) “evangelical” political right.
My point is that in this globalized world w/immigration policy in the US like an unlocked if not open door, so the “majority” could, potentially, change.
It comes under the heading of, “be careful what you wish for”.
Protestant evangelicals would likely not want their offspring to be forced to abide by laws from Catholic or Islamic dogma.
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
6:48 pm
So what did getalife say on page 1?
josef
February 9th, 2012
6:49 pm
midori
Don’t listen to Sooth…keep that boyfriend! He’s got good sense! (Not to mention good taste in women!)
Fred (on the short bus)
February 9th, 2012
6:50 pm
Obama = Corruption
February 9th, 2012
6:35 pm
What about Rolan Martin being thrown under the leftest media bus from CNN?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That was pretty shirty and I can say I for one am tired of the LGBTB (or whatever it is) Mafia severing people from their jobs over “slights” real or perceived. What the hell is ISH anyway?
F. Sinkwich
February 9th, 2012
6:52 pm
More libroolery:
LOS ANGELES (CBS) — When you head down to the beach for a little fun this summer, county officials want you to leave the pigskin at home.
The Board of Supervisors this week agreed to raise fines for anyone who throws a football or a Frisbee on any beach in Los Angeles County.
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
6:52 pm
Fred is a bigot
middle of the road
February 9th, 2012
6:53 pm
Good news is that with less contraception out there, there will be more abortions. You see, I am pro-abortion!
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
6:54 pm
josef:
You disagree with everyone!
Fred (on the short bus)
February 9th, 2012
6:54 pm
Obama = Corruption
February 9th, 2012
6:31 pm
josef, No Jay will kick you off his blogg if you prove him wrong and blogg the truth. Isn’t that so TruthBe. But Jay will never kick any of you liberal progressive democrat obamajuice drinkers off no matter how wrong or hateful you are. Just ask getalife today when she was soooooooooo ugly to the Catholic Church. Well Jay what about that???????
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
http://www.imagepoop.com/image/1889/I-See-Stupid-People.html
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
6:56 pm
“Socialist Youth Corp henchmen”
Pinkshirts! (or is that mauve?)
Fred (on the short bus)
February 9th, 2012
6:57 pm
josef
February 9th, 2012
6:49 pm
midori
Don’t listen to Sooth…keep that boyfriend! He’s got good sense! (Not to mention good taste in women!)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Midori has a new boyfriend? Oh my………..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyXzwtIlZyg
Fred (on the short bus)
February 9th, 2012
6:58 pm
middle of the road
February 9th, 2012
6:53 pm
Good news is that with less contraception out there, there will be more abortions. You see, I am pro-abortion!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Unfortunately your mom wasn’t.
LOL sorry. I couldn’t resist. YOU teed it up. I merely drove it down range.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
6:58 pm
fred,
My bad
ld
February 9th, 2012
6:58 pm
Fsinkwich (6:34 pm)
I disagree w/”libs” on a number of issues–economic and guns– but am certainly more progressive than the right-wing-nuts that want to teach creationism in school as fact and omit the theory of evolution entirely.
I’ve been listening to Ron Paul as an alternative to our current, inept leader; however, he seems a bit shrill on some issues, and perhaps even obtuse on foreign policy–he has not indicated how he intends to create policy w/regard to the defense treaties we now have. If we can bring home most troops from overseas and maintain our defense partnerships by other means, this could be a good thing. On the other hand, if all our troops are in the US, we can expect the next world war to be fought here, too?
I don’t want to be claimed by anyone; believe everyone should think for themselves.
Some of you, however, seem unable to function outside a pack mentality.
josef
February 9th, 2012
6:59 pm
JM
“Fred is a bigot”
Why would you say that?
Can’t he be “tired of it…?”
Personally, I’ll be glad to see Martin go…not over this insult, slip of the lip, or what have you, but because I find him an arrogant little jerk so full of himself I automatically flip the switch when he’s on air…Pavlovian reaction…if the LBGT Mafia gets the job done, good…
ld
February 9th, 2012
7:00 pm
Fred (6:58)
ironic humor;
lol
snicker, snicker, chuckle snort
barking frog
February 9th, 2012
7:02 pm
Obama = Corruption
February 9th, 2012
6:31 pm
Jay will kick you off his blogg if you prove him wrong and blogg the truth.
——————-
Guess you’re lucky to be unable to prove him wrong and blog untruth.
josef
February 9th, 2012
7:03 pm
SOOTH
“You disagree with everyone”
Nyanh. They disagree with ME! :-
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
7:03 pm
josef @ 6:59
I would have to agree……. Martin’s little act is tired
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
7:04 pm
josef,
Now you know that there are those on the left who blog here that get a pass for their abusive comments. You’re not among them and neither are other left wing posters who display class in their comments. I could name names but of course I won’t as you know who they are.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
7:05 pm
Some of you, however, seem unable to function outside a pack mentality.
What do you expect? We’re ilk.
ld
February 9th, 2012
7:07 pm
F.Sinkwich
ld = L D
granny godzilla
February 9th, 2012
7:09 pm
Midori
How are you! Hope the world looks better to you everyday.
Is it just me but is there a wee hint of testosterone in the air?
Tundra Dude
February 9th, 2012
7:09 pm
I am convinced President Obama is actually a Republican!
Even this ultra-liberal economist/historian agrees.
http://goo.gl/r0z6M
Obama’s New Populist Fakery
Michael Hudson, October 2011
former Wall Street economist. A Distinguished Research Professor at UMKC
(snipped)
President Obama’s policies have not been the voice of reason. They are even further to the right than George W. Bush could have achieved. At least a Republican president would have confronted a Democratic Congress blocking the kind of program that Obama has rammed through. But the Democrats seem stymied when it comes to standing up to a president who ran as a Democrat rather than the Tea Partier he seems to be so close to in his ideology.
F. Sinkwich
February 9th, 2012
7:10 pm
“What do you expect? We’re ilk.”
Kinda sad you are.
The vast majority of people here used to love America and all it stands for.
TaxPayer
February 9th, 2012
7:11 pm
Well, we know what some Catholic men think about this issue but what about the Catholic women. Are they getting a headache just from listening to some of this. Perhaps they would just as soon abstain from any part of this issue.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
7:11 pm
“The vast majority of people here used to love America and all it stands for”
Then they lost their moral compass.
F. Sinkwich
February 9th, 2012
7:12 pm
“F.Sinkwich
ld = L D”
Loser Democrat?
josef
February 9th, 2012
7:13 pm
DEL
Well, he does get in a snit from time to time with some who, imuo, have said nothing any worse than some on the “other side.” I never have been able to get a handle on it…
Midori
February 9th, 2012
7:15 pm
Josef – Sooth is just being a hata!!
Mrs. G – testosterone? Is that what that smell is?
F. Sinkwich
February 9th, 2012
7:16 pm
My bad, getalife.
I meant most “here” referenced Ameica at large, not Jay’s blog.
Most here hate America, ’cause they’re lib ilks.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
7:17 pm
The vast majority of people here used to love America and all it stands for.
Is there an app for that? I’m really busy and can’t multitask anymore.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
7:17 pm
F Sinkwich
“Most here hate America, ’cause they’re lib ilks.”
Really? Tell me you are just joking
getalife
February 9th, 2012
7:18 pm
They don’t hate America filky.
Oh the drama!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
7:18 pm
The vast majority of people here used to love America and all it stands for.
Yes, we the progressive liberal ilk, used to love America but not for what you want to make it stand for
We are not proud of an America that would let people die because they could not afford preventative medical care
We are not proud of an America that forces many families to go bankrupt to provide medical care
We are not proud of an America that does not provide for its return servicemen and servicewomen, providing support for the sacrifices they made
We are not proud of an America where police officials pepper spray peaceful protestors or beats them while keeping the media out hiding their acts
We are not proud of an America that expects the middle class to pay for the care of those with lower income and to subsidize the rich and corporate america.
No we are not proud of an America that you would have us become and for what you would have it stand for.
I am sure I could add a lot more but the simple fact is….. Your vision for America makes me sick to my stomach and I will stand against you to fight for a better America each and every day.
Midori
February 9th, 2012
7:19 pm
can’t we just dislike you instead, Sinkwich?
josef
February 9th, 2012
7:20 pm
midori, granny
Well, speaking strictly from the biological viewpoint, the estrogen crowd do seem to have a certain, well, je ne sais quoi, when they smell it!
Fred (on the short bus)
February 9th, 2012
7:23 pm
josef
February 9th, 2012
6:59 pm
JM
“Fred is a bigot”
Why would you say that?
Can’t he be “tired of it…?”
Personally, I’ll be glad to see Martin go…not over this insult, slip of the lip, or what have you, but because I find him an arrogant little jerk so full of himself I automatically flip the switch when he’s on air…Pavlovian reaction…if the LBGT Mafia gets the job done, good…
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
LOL josef. I wouldn’t know the guy if he came up and kicked me in the butt. But I read the same reaction as you expressed about him on the same blog I read about this. Sounds like he’s just an asshat and CNN is using this as an excuse.
BTW Can you tell me what ish means? I can’t noodle it out.
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
7:23 pm
Keep @ 7:18: WELL SAID!
F. Sinkwich
February 9th, 2012
7:23 pm
“Really? Tell me you are just joking”
Nope.
Just read their posts for proof.
ld
February 9th, 2012
7:24 pm
Back to Jays article…
The Catholic church as been known to change rules–once priests could marry. The rules of the Catholic church are, like the rules of all religions, man-made rules.
If the Catholic church wants to operate hospitals and clinics and have them serve as a branch of their church, then, as long as it is not tax-payer supported, I have no problem with that, however
…it needs to be made clear to both the facilities and to all potential patients that no taxpayer $ will go to those facilities –including medicare or medicaid.
????? DO ANY OF YOU KNOW ?????
I’ve not seen the specific wording of the documents to which the Catholic Church is objecting. Do those documents/rules/regulations/laws require that to stay in business the Catholic hospitals/clinics must either provide birth control and/or perform abortions or is it just that to receive any funds from gov’t they must provide these services?
getalife
February 9th, 2012
7:24 pm
filky,
I was talking about you cons.
F. Sinkwich
February 9th, 2012
7:26 pm
“We are not proud of an America”
Case closed.
Keep, like all lib ilks, hate America.
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
7:26 pm
Now that’s the way I like it!
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
7:26 pm
http://www.priestsforlife.org/index.aspx
Here’s another one that could be headed to the SCOTUS. Obama sure is racking them up.
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
7:28 pm
Good Fight !
It was that wooden paddle (with holes in it for the air effect) he had !
By the way:
In the Marine Corps a tie is a “scarf” and your dress green jacket is a “blouse”.
Just sayin’ ……………………..
getalife
February 9th, 2012
7:28 pm
del,
He will probably use waivers.
granny godzilla
February 9th, 2012
7:28 pm
midori
yep.
all trying to decide one way or another what we women can and cannot do with our bits and pieces.
Fred (on the short bus)
February 9th, 2012
7:29 pm
LOL I haven’t been able to keep up all day. I THOUGHT I was going to now, but we were on line (me and the 9 yo daughter) looking at English Cream Doxies. Now after looking she is wound tighter than a republican at a democratic lynching party………..
F. Sinkwich
February 9th, 2012
7:29 pm
“can’t we just dislike you instead, Sinkwich?”
Sure!
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
7:30 pm
can’t we just dislike you instead, Sinkwich?
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
7:31 pm
If only REDNECK CONVERT were here! Surely HE could sort this all out for us and make it make sense! If only he were here!
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
7:31 pm
Good Fight:
http://www.militaryuniformexchange.com/exchange/viewad.asp?id=50000262566105510
Fred (on the short bus)
February 9th, 2012
7:32 pm
https://www.google.com/search?q=english+cream+dachshund+pics&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=HA0&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=ZGU0T8G2IIOctwfwiZWnAg&ved=0CCQQsAQ&biw=1152&bih=697
josef
February 9th, 2012
7:33 pm
Sinkwich
Not every American is as narrow minded as you seem to be…
FRED
I’m not at all current on the internet acronyms…don’t know what ISH is…
Sammy
February 9th, 2012
7:34 pm
I read today that the Obama White House is trying to cast this issue as one of access to abortion and contraception, not religious liberty. Here is Bookman, right on cue doing his job, feeding us the party line. Why not cut out the middle man and just publish the talking points from Obama. Bookman is a wasted salary in the middle.
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
7:36 pm
0311/811,
What’s a contract PFC in boot camp? I had a meritorious promotion but that was at the end of boot camp. Never heard that term before.
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
7:36 pm
Sammy:
What’s next …………. forcing a Catholic Hosptial to PERFORM an abortion?
You bet !
F. Sinkwich
February 9th, 2012
7:36 pm
“Why not cut out the middle man and just publish the talking points from Obama. Bookman is a wasted salary in the middle.”
So is Granny.
She gets paid by the DNC per post.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
7:37 pm
Bookman is a wasted salary in the middle.
Somebody needs an English Cream Dachshund to hug.
I really think that would help, Sammy.
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
7:38 pm
Recon 2533 1811 :
I made PFC also but never heard of that. Where did you see it?
Could it be someone from a military ally going through the process ?
barking frog
February 9th, 2012
7:38 pm
Fred. check the urban dictionary for ISH, might help..
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 9th, 2012
7:38 pm
If only REDNECK CONVERT were here! Surely HE could sort this all out for us and make it make sense! If only he were here!
Well, Sooth, I been here and I made what seemed to me a sensible suggestion. Just have all the health insurance plans pay for fixing men and women. Then there’d be no need for birth control and this would be the nicest blog in the U.S. of A., what with nobody having all those hormones.
But nobody listens to me for some reason.
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
7:41 pm
“But nobody listens to me for some reason.”
I just don’t understand it. As I’ve said before, you’re our very own trailer park Voltaire!
Just ignorance, one can only guess!
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
7:41 pm
0311/1811,
In your link@7:31.
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
7:44 pm
Sorry, Jam-man! I’m just in one of those moods tonight!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
7:45 pm
josef….try this: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ish
n
February 9th, 2012
7:45 pm
Redneck Convert is correct, of course. Hormones will be the downfall of civilization.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
7:46 pm
But nobody listens to me for some reason.
My uncle says that too. We keep telling him to put his teeth in.
Just a thought.
md
February 9th, 2012
7:51 pm
A little greed on the other end of the spectrum:
http://newsok.com/seiu-makes-play-for-dues-from-conn.-subsidy/article/feed/345852
“The SEIU achieved this goal in Michigan, with the result that even low-income families who receive a Medicaid subsidy to take care of their adult, disabled children are losing $30 a month to the union. “Our daughter is 34 and our son is 30,” retired police office Robert Haynes said of the Michigan unionization. “They have cerebral palsy. They are basically like 6-month-olds in adult bodies. They need to be fed and they wear diapers. We could sure use that $30 a month that’s being sent to the union.”"
3rd party unions are bleeders……….out for themselves. And folks only focus on the greed in places like Wall St.
Rachel from the Outside
February 9th, 2012
7:51 pm
Bookman and Obama beleive that Christains, both Catholic and protestant should no longer have freedom of conscience in this country. This issue is about liberty and the free exercise of religion, pure and simple. Obama thinks his health care reform is the most important thing and the Constitution be damned.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 9th, 2012
7:52 pm
My uncle says that too. We keep telling him to put his teeth in.
Just a thought.
Well, Aquagirl, I’m not too old to hunt you down. I recall I use to have to come back at you on Wooten’s blog. Come to think of it, you must be getting up there in years.
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
7:54 pm
Is it love? I’ll never forget the first time I ever heard this song!
JKL2
February 9th, 2012
7:54 pm
aquagirl- Seriously, your attitude is leaking out all over the place and it ain’t pretty
I know. Personal responsibility is pure evil. If only the government could step in to help protect all the stupid people from themselves…
Vote obama. Free money for everyone!
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
7:55 pm
Recon:
You got me ……….. I just put that there to show Good Fight he could have been a Marine and worn a blouse ……………..
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
7:55 pm
Out of curiosity, have any of the Libs here explained how health insurance stopped being a benefit and became a right?? The afternoon crew drew a blank.
An oldie but goodie from Jigsaw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mudlXF3MA8Q
Jay
February 9th, 2012
7:55 pm
“Bookman is a wasted salary in the middle.”
I’ll have you know my salary is NOT wasted. I put it to very good use.
ld
February 9th, 2012
7:56 pm
Recon
Thanks for the link.
Solution is simple–just end all employee insurance. And
Find or have created an independent “credit union” for medical employees w/i a specific geographical area through which employees can buy their group insurance of choice covering what they want and/or don’t want via riders–and, of course, pay the employees enough that they can afford the insurance.
like that word “CHOICE”.
md
February 9th, 2012
7:56 pm
In case folks don’t read that link, this union says because a family gets Medicaid, they are in essence a gov’t employee and therefore should cough up dues to take care of their own family member………
Talking about stretching…………
ld
February 9th, 2012
7:57 pm
Jay, if you discover you have no good uses for your $alary, pass it on.
ld
February 9th, 2012
7:59 pm
If I were one to bet ( and if it were legal ), I’d bet many Catholics would want birth control and even abortions available to them as well.
Have a cousin that married a Catholic w/prior understanding of two children limit. They’re still happily married some fifty years–w/two grown children half dozen or so grandchildren.
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
8:00 pm
Ooooops !!!
Headline: “More Dems unhappy with birth control rule”
“Support for the Obama administration’s requirements that some religious employers’ health plans cover contraceptives slipped further in the Senate on Thursday as more Democrats voiced objections, and Republicans consider attaching a measure that would strike the contentious requirement onto a highway funding bill now under consideration.”
Hey you libs. …………. better get those people in line !!!
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/72704.html#ixzz1lw6wVerz
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/72704.html
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
8:00 pm
you must be getting up there in years.
Yeah, but I still have my own teeth. Which is a miracle, considering I’ve said smart@$$ stuff like that since I could talk. I can probably even outrun a beer truck for short distances if I’m really terrified.
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
8:03 pm
Personal responsibility is pure evil. If only the government could step in to help protect all the stupid people from themselves…
JKL2–I’m not sure why, but self-reliance has become a bad thing as well. At least with the Lefties. Force people pay for their own birth control?? Only an evil, heartless person would suggest something so blatantly cruel.
JKL2
February 9th, 2012
8:03 pm
they both- “Most here hate America, ’cause they’re lib ilks.” Really? Tell me you are just joking
Most people don’t want to “fundementally transform” something they love.
Just sayin’
ld
February 9th, 2012
8:03 pm
n
Isn’t the downfall–end– of civilization (as we know it) supposed to be that self-fulfilling prophecy of Armageddon.
md
February 9th, 2012
8:05 pm
“Have a cousin that married a Catholic w/prior understanding of two children limit. They’re still happily married some fifty years–w/two grown children half dozen or so grandchildren.”
Did they by chance meet at the Whole Foods store? If they did, it’s a double whammy and your personal friendships and observations are a figment of your imagination………..
ld
February 9th, 2012
8:05 pm
Three bumper stickers:
America, love it or leave it
America, change it or lose it.
America, love it enough to change it before we lose it.
AmVet -
February 9th, 2012
8:06 pm
Is it just me, or is 16 pages of sophist sloganeering and veiled (or not) personal insults enough to call it a day on this one?
Bruno, got turned onto this one yesterday. It’s from a couple of kindred blue-eyed soul Philly types…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlBEIUJIqvI
josef
February 9th, 2012
8:06 pm
good fight
I’ve got most of them…but as blog slang?
Jay
February 9th, 2012
8:06 pm
You’ll be first on the list, ld.
ld
February 9th, 2012
8:07 pm
md
“appear” to be happily married?
does that satisfy your ‘need’ to argue?
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
8:07 pm
Birth control doesn’t cost a thing …………. only a decision.
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
8:08 pm
Solution is simple–just end all employee insurance.
Id–I like your reasoning in your 7:56 post. So I understand your overall take on the situation, how do you feel about the upcoming mandate to purchase health insurance??
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
8:08 pm
Jay:
How about that 8:00pm post, huh ?
TGT
February 9th, 2012
8:09 pm
This is NOT about contraception (and it’s certainly not about a “woman’s health”), as usual when it comes to anything health care related, for the libs it always comes back to their Holy Grail: ABORTION.
JKL2
February 9th, 2012
8:09 pm
recon- What’s a contract PFC in boot camp?
My guess would be somewith with college credit who entered service as a PFC instead of a private.
ld
February 9th, 2012
8:10 pm
JKL2
you don’t think the founding fathers wanted to assure US could “change” w/times?
why do you think the constitution permits it?
what is the purpose of Congress if it is not to adapt to changing circumstance–including technology?
md
February 9th, 2012
8:10 pm
“Force people pay for their own birth control?? ”
During my younger, poorer days, we used that expensive method called “pull out ‘.
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
8:12 pm
With the kind of money Jay is pulling down, I think he should consider paying the top bloggers. I would say Doom and I are worth at least $100 per month.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
8:12 pm
md
And that is exactly what your daddy should have done……….
just kidding….. Nice discussion earlier
josef
February 9th, 2012
8:13 pm
Breeders is messy.
ld
February 9th, 2012
8:15 pm
Does anyone else here hope that the requirement that all Americans that breathe buy a product from a mega-for-profit privately owned industry (Obamacare) will be overturned by the US Supreme Court?
There are currently a number of companies offering medicare alternatives and, after suckering in a bunch of folk that did not understand that these policies replaced medicare, they’ve already started reducing benefits and increasing prices.
The bleeding hearts that supported Obamacare because they want free cradle to grave healthcare are going to be in for a really rude awakening.
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
8:15 pm
Birth control doesn’t cost a thing …………. only a decision.
Just tie a knot in it!
bman
February 9th, 2012
8:16 pm
This is silly, silly stuff.
ld
February 9th, 2012
8:16 pm
Bruno
some should be charged for taking up space
md
February 9th, 2012
8:17 pm
“does that satisfy your ‘need’ to argue?”
Not arguing, just an insider joke. Stick around long enough and you’ll see that folks here tend to discount personal observations……..
JKL2
February 9th, 2012
8:17 pm
id- what is the purpose of Congress if it is not to adapt to changing circumstance–including technology?
Adapt, not change. Vision is based in values, and since the Demwits have abondoned (and are working to outlaw) the values our country was founded upon, change is not a good thing. You can’t have more personal freedom and more government control at the same time. Liberals fail for the same reasons the confederacy did. Too much me and not enough us.
AmVet -
February 9th, 2012
8:17 pm
America, love it enough to change it before we lose it.
I do like that.
Standing pat, doing nothing, catatonic fear of progress, addicted to the failed status quo – these are not options.
If not now, when?
JKL2
February 9th, 2012
8:19 pm
md- During my younger, poorer days, we used that expensive method called “pull out ‘.
Evidently lost on the African-American culture…
TaxPayer
February 9th, 2012
8:19 pm
Birth control doesn’t cost a thing, except for the headache medicine.
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
8:19 pm
“This is silly, silly stuff.”
And, your point is . . . ?
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
8:20 pm
Bruno, got turned onto this one yesterday. It’s from a couple of kindred blue-eyed soul Philly types…
PB and I jammed out on that one, Bro.
We’re working our way through one of the Teaching Company Courses about Classical music. I just had to suffer through 3 hours of opera…..highly effective as a birth control method.
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
8:21 pm
“Evidently lost on the African-American culture…”
Oooooooh! tick . . . tick . . . tock! Nice knowing you!
Don’t that “doing it towel!”
bman
February 9th, 2012
8:21 pm
Oh hey Sooth! As usual, I have no point. Just taking a break from scrubbing floors
josef
February 9th, 2012
8:21 pm
JKL
Was that really necessary?
Recon 0311 2533
February 9th, 2012
8:21 pm
0311/1811
Those obstructionist Democrats.
josef
February 9th, 2012
8:22 pm
bman
Are you taking roll?
Common Sense
February 9th, 2012
8:23 pm
So the obligation has become that others are responsible for your contraception. So we should be able to stop at the CVS, and pick up a box of Trojans and charge them to our health insurance?
I didn’t think so.
bman
February 9th, 2012
8:23 pm
Josef haha…just poking my head in to see what the fuss is all about.
josef
February 9th, 2012
8:24 pm
JKL
Can’t say that about African Americans….try trailer trash or rednecks hillbillies or crackers…that’s permissible…
md
February 9th, 2012
8:24 pm
“And that is exactly what your daddy should have done……….
just kidding….. Nice discussion earlier”
And he probably tried, just a bit slow on the draw(back)….
And I always enjoy good civil discussions……and some not so civil ones too.
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
8:24 pm
Now, let me ask you something. Do you think they need contraception?
Recon 0311 2533
February 9th, 2012
8:24 pm
0311/1811,
Back to the “contract PFC” man that scares me. Does that mean we have H1B contractors coming to the U.S. to serve in our military.
ld
February 9th, 2012
8:24 pm
md
oh, mia culpa
sometimes fact and opinion get blurred
just saying I personally know of at least one Catholic couple that believes in birth control
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
8:25 pm
Id @ 8:15. We’re on the same page.
josef
February 9th, 2012
8:25 pm
bman
It’s supposed to be Catholic bashing… but we’ve moved on…
JKL2
February 9th, 2012
8:26 pm
sooth- Oooooooh! tick . . . tick . . . tock! Nice knowing you! Don’t that “doing it towel!”
I guess I’m too old fashioned. could I have this translated to english?
ld
February 9th, 2012
8:26 pm
my thinking is that if Viagra is covered, so should be birth control–both or neither for any gov’t purpose, direct or indirect.
for private pay the option should be there, priced accordingly
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
8:27 pm
Recon, et al:
Here it is re: “Contract” PFC
http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9071945704/m/6380091302001
http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96162
Heck, when I enlisted the Corps was DRAFTING ! That was the “contract” then ………………..
md
February 9th, 2012
8:28 pm
“So we should be able to stop at the CVS, and pick up a box of Trojans and charge them to our health insurance?”
Darn tootin…..or we have some real live de…scrim….i…na…tion going on. Or is this just about women and their bodies……like abortion always seems to be.
AmVet -
February 9th, 2012
8:28 pm
B, yoiks! I love classical music and could live on it if I had to. I just don’t want to! And the truth be told, opera is kind of lost on me. But I wish that weren’t the case because there are a few arias (The one in Philadelphia) that have left me speechless.
JKL2, you clearly have some serious racial demons that own you. And your idiom that Republicans love this country and non-Republicans don’t is…….idiotic.
The greatest guitarist from Mexico that I ever heard. Here paired with a darling little songbird…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UIojGDIBvI
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
8:29 pm
ld:
Viagra is for a “so-called” phyical problem
Birth control is not.
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
8:29 pm
Excuse me: physical
JKL2
February 9th, 2012
8:29 pm
josef- Was that really necessary?
nothing is necessary, but out-of-wedlock birth rates would suggest it’s true.
one angry queen
February 9th, 2012
8:29 pm
That josef sure is brilliant!
ld
February 9th, 2012
8:30 pm
md
if you think only women support the right of choice w/regard to abortion, think again
think child support
getalife
February 9th, 2012
8:30 pm
I watched a syrian army unit massacre a town today.
This one might get ugly.
josef
February 9th, 2012
8:30 pm
Why, thank you angry queen. So are you!
ld
February 9th, 2012
8:30 pm
out of wedlock birthrates may also reflect the cost of divorce
md
February 9th, 2012
8:31 pm
“just saying I personally know of at least one Catholic couple that believes in birth control”
Not around here you don’t……here, you don’t know if you know them, you have no clue if their really Catholic, and sure don’t know their stance on birth control……..
Stick around, you’ll see.
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
8:31 pm
“I guess I’m too old fashioned. could I have this translated to english?”
Those “African-Americans” you denigrate have a similar method to the “pull-out” method. It’s called the “doing-it” towel. Serves the same purpose.
Of course, Rednecks don’t never have no babies what wasn’t planned, so this is a moot point!
ld
February 9th, 2012
8:32 pm
also
out of wedlock birthrates might reflect that older unmarried professional women are having babies w/donated sperm — they want the babies but the men are, well m e n
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
8:33 pm
I did learn something significant about classical music: Along with PB, I most enjoy the fugue style. The polyphonic repeated fugue subject/counter subject seems to stimulate both sides of the brain simultaneously. The right brain with the melodic grandeur, the left brain with the tightly controlled rhythms.
md
February 9th, 2012
8:34 pm
“my thinking is that if Viagra is covered, so should be birth control–both or neither for any gov’t purpose, direct or indirect.”
last I checked, Viagra wasn’t covered…..neither were glasses or hearing aids….all “lifestyle” choices, so I’m told.
Yet contraceptives are suddenly different…………
bman
February 9th, 2012
8:34 pm
Josef .. .. I see that. I’m having real trouble not “going in”-to this topic with all the Viagra and how to prevent pregnancy stuff. If I said anything, it would be R-rated …and then some
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
8:35 pm
I can’t find anything on google to confirm, but I remember hearing a stat from a long time ago which claimed that Protestants actually have more kids than Catholics.
barking frog
February 9th, 2012
8:36 pm
Are Protestants still protesting?
Midori
February 9th, 2012
8:37 pm
md- During my younger, poorer days, we used that expensive method called “pull out ‘.
Evidently lost on the African-American culture…
um –WTF???
May I ask why my culture was singled out here?
also, are you aware of the fact that one can get pregnant using that method?
Your ignorance is right there in neon lights.
md
February 9th, 2012
8:37 pm
“if you think only women support the right of choice w/regard to abortion, think again”
Well, you’ll have to go into the archives to understand my stance that the equation goes from one to 3, but I’m too burnt out on that discussion to do it again.
Geo
February 9th, 2012
8:37 pm
“I watched a syrian army unit massacre a town today. This one might get ugly.”
Why? Our Great Warrior stands ready to strike! Well maybe once he’s done with the Catholic Church…
JKL2
February 9th, 2012
8:38 pm
getalife- I watched a syrian army unit massacre a town today. This one might get ugly.
I thought you liked obama spreading “democracy”?
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
8:39 pm
Tired of drab old winter? Try the AT&T Pro-Am at Pebble Beach on the Golf Channel now on 218 (DirecTV) or 401 (Dish Network). It’s just beautiful!
josef
February 9th, 2012
8:39 pm
getalife
That one’s already gotten messy, but just wait, we ain’t seen nuthin yet…
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
8:39 pm
Soothsayer @ 8:31
You forgot to mention that they do not have abortions either
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
8:41 pm
JKL2
Isn’t Obama just continuing Bush’s doctrine of spreading democracy?
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
8:41 pm
The US Conference of Catholic Bishops?
Never heard of them.
Glad the day was spent here hashing that out, given other current events…
josef
February 9th, 2012
8:42 pm
midori
“May I ask why my culture was singled out here?”
Because you’re Black…good L-rd, woman, don’t you ever read the memos either?
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
8:42 pm
Josef
If he can’t acknowledge democrat Roland Martin is a bigot, then he’s as bad as the white folks who think the KKK is a civic organization
TaxPayer
February 9th, 2012
8:43 pm
Viagra is for a “so-called” phyical problem
Birth control is not.
Limp… I mean… lame.
AmVet -
February 9th, 2012
8:43 pm
B, Bach’s fugues are wonderful.
And that contrapuntal style, is in some ways the very essence of modern music.
Something about that back and forth between the musical “voices” that does engage the brain fully. And why. I believe they play classical music to infants…
Mick
February 9th, 2012
8:43 pm
bruno
That must be a recent statistic cause during the baby boom, them catholics were cranking em out. I should know, the second of nine and down the street were two other families with eight and seven….yeah, those were the jersey days, some of the best days of my life…..and to think because of einstein’s theory of relativity they are being perpetually played out along the time continuum….however, I firmly believe that the best still might be in front of us…
getalife
February 9th, 2012
8:44 pm
josef,
Yes, I should have said uglier.
Turkey should act already.
Soothsayer
February 9th, 2012
8:44 pm
Here’s a Bach number you’re sure to love!
Recon 0311 2533
February 9th, 2012
8:44 pm
0311/1811,
Okay get your contract go to Parris Island, San Diego or who knows maybe even now Bermuda, shoot a toilet seat or worse, get sent to fat boy platoon or motivation platoon and still get awarded your PFC chevron when you graduate, not if you graduate. Pretty soon they’ll be contracting Gold Bars or higher right out of boot camp. The new transformed United States Marine Corps, compliments of political correctness in our military. No damn wonder so many are getting out.
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
8:44 pm
Alright cultural heathens, here’s PB’s favorite pianist playing Bach’s “Well Tempered Clavier”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RjebdVKIAM&feature=related
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
8:44 pm
Seems that we have a lot of geniuses here who know more about what is preventative care than the Institute of Medicine. The IOM report identified 8 services necessary to support women’s optimal health and well being. Each has a foundation of evidence supporting its effectiveness.
Contrast that with the mere blowhardiness of the statements made here.
Oy vey.
TaxPayer
February 9th, 2012
8:47 pm
Last time I checked, condoms did fall under the generic heading of “contraceptive”. I highly recommend against using the blessed version though. They’re holey.
Geo
February 9th, 2012
8:48 pm
Seems we have a few blowhards who have no clue as to religious doctrine or principles either.
AmVet -
February 9th, 2012
8:48 pm
This classical hour is making me miss Dr. Karl Haas. I loved his programs on NPR and he taught me most of what little I know about the genre.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhRa3REdozw
getalife
February 9th, 2012
8:48 pm
Like our President does not give the order.
He hangs out in the war room.
Geo
February 9th, 2012
8:49 pm
No – remember – you told us he got Bin Laden and Kadahffi.
JKL2
February 9th, 2012
8:49 pm
sooth-Of course, Rednecks don’t never have no babies what wasn’t planned, so this is a moot point!
Of course they do, but at half the rate. Don’t let facts get in the way of you making a valid point though. Keep going…
http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/1626/Family-Living-Arrangements-FEWER-TRADITIONAL-FAMILIES.html
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
8:51 pm
Recon
Many are getting out because of the number of deployments to Iraq and Afganistan.
I know a Lt Col who is currently stationed at Fort Benning. He is a West Pointer with 21 yrs and will be getting out this year. He has been to Bosnia, Iraq, Kuwait and Afghanistan (2 times). He is tired and wants to see his 2nd child finish out school without being deployed again
Friend of mine who is ex military is a contractor in Afghanistan. Saw him two weeks ago when he was home on vacation. He says while most troops know what they signed up for and are gladly doing their duty, they are getting tired.
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
8:52 pm
Gotta run—The Baroque Period awaits……
ld
February 9th, 2012
8:52 pm
Pregnancy itself is a cluster of physical problems (if you’re body is the one pregnant); unwanted or unhealthy pregnancy is a physical crisis, a psychological nightmare and an imminent child tragedy.
AmVet -
February 9th, 2012
8:52 pm
Geo, as you obviously feel such compelling compassion for the suffering Syrian people you could always go there and do your part to help. But all you want to do is put on display your raging ODS, no matter what he does or doesn’t do.
Save it. Neo-cons have zero credibility when it comes to matters of foreign policy…
josef
February 9th, 2012
8:52 pm
getalife
Turkey is walking a real thin line here…that Kurd thingie…they have been allowing a few of the Alawi in, they don’t want the Christians though, especially the Armenian ones (wonder why?)
JKL2
February 9th, 2012
8:53 pm
ld- out of wedlock birthrates might reflect that older unmarried professional women are having babies w/donated sperm — they want the babies but the men are, well m e n
Oh, so now all unwed mothers are old married professionals argument.
Can we get an “all abortions are for rape and inest victims” argument thrown in for good measure…
PS: I’m not laughing with you.
Geo
February 9th, 2012
8:54 pm
AmVet – abandon psychoanalysis and stick to baroque.
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
8:55 pm
Bumper Sticker:
OMG (Obama Must Go) !
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
8:55 pm
Turkey isn’t going to do jack
These people are just going to die
Obama is meditating on it though
That will solve things
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
8:56 pm
Geo, I wholeheartedly agree. Hope you can do better than they have is discussing constitutional issues. You can of course state the test for determination if there has been an unconstitutional infringment of a religious freedom. Unless I missed it, Bruno ran away each time he was asked and never answered it.
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
8:57 pm
Recon/BOTH SUCK:
I must admit I get more and more cynical with what goes on with our political and higher military leadership in today’s events but nothing has really changed over the years. It’s always been there.
April 2012 issue of Vietnam Magazine:
“Rescue in Death Valley (A Shau)”
To make a long article short someone decided a group of 17 U.S. Army Green Berets and 400 South Vietnamese and Montagnard troops should try to hold the A Shau valley all by their own.
This camp was 30 miles from nowhere and the four battalion strong NVA 95th regiment decided otherwise.
It turned into a debacle the first night of the attack and an air rescue attempt was ordered. Lt. Col. Charles House, USMC, personally led his helicopter squadron to attempt the rescue under impossible weather conditions.
The debacle continued and many troops were lost. South Vietnamese soldiers had to be shot by USMC helicopter crews because they overcrowded to the point of preventing helicopter’s from taking off with wounded. However, after Lt. Col. House’s helicopter was shot down, he organized the survivors and led them to safety.
Magazine Quote:
“House told the reporter he ordered his men to fire at the Vietnamese who wouldn’t obey. The reporter asked House if he would repeat that on camera. ‘Yeah,’ House replied after a long pause. ‘I’ve been passed over twice for promotion, so I’m on my way out anyway.’ ”
“In a final act to the battle that, in many ways, is emblematic of the Vietnam War’s contradictions, as a result of his actions in the A Shau, House was awarded a Navy Cross. But for making what his immediate superior deemed some rather emotionally charged statements to authority about the wisdom and futility of the mission he also received a letter of reprimand …. and was relieved of command.”
Pathetic.
Curious Observer
February 9th, 2012
8:57 pm
Okay get your contract go to Parris Island, San Diego or who knows maybe even now Bermuda, shoot a toilet seat or worse, get sent to fat boy platoon or motivation platoon and still get awarded your PFC chevron when you graduate, not if you graduate. Pretty soon they’ll be contracting Gold Bars or higher right out of boot camp. The new transformed United States Marine Corps, compliments of political correctness in our military. No damn wonder so many are getting out.
I vividly recall my first payday at Parris Island. After a month of pure hell, we were marched to the squad bay, while an officer sat at a folding table covered with a blanket. My first pay? A fresh, crisp ten dollar bill—all that was left after the deduction for uniforms, PX supplies, etc.—and yes, you have to pay for those uniforms. And so far was my mind from pay that I was honestly surprised to receive any money at all.There was nothing to spend money on anyway. I could honestly have gotten lost if I ventured even a quarter mile from the squad bay. All I saw was the neck of the recruit who marched and ran ahead of me.
I don’t know what it’s like now—my experience was 53 years ago—but if anybody’s considering joining the Marine Corps for the pay, that person is pathetically misinformed.
And by the way, it was called Special Strengthening Platoon. Every recruit lived in fear of being sent there, because after an SSP recruit returned from it, he started boot camp all over again. That’s why every recruit gave every periodic fitness test his best shot.
JKL2
February 9th, 2012
8:59 pm
they both- Isn’t Obama just continuing Bush’s doctrine of spreading democracy
Bush tried something that is still in development. obama is being pushed around by radicals to help bring about the destrution of Isreal. How many countries have to be destroyed before you take away his peace prize?
AmVet -
February 9th, 2012
8:59 pm
At least classical music is something I know a thing or three about.
Unlike you and Syria, or for that matter the very first thing about the Middle East.
That’s what makes you the perfect Bushbot neo-con, you don’t need to know anything about anything to know it all.
If you listen carefully, at 2:12 you will hear the line Paul is dead…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVJD3dL4diY
TGT
February 9th, 2012
9:00 pm
Letter to Obama admn. from Attorneys General of Nebraska, South Carolina, and Texas opposing contraception rule
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
9:01 pm
Curious Observer :
What was your MOS, career, etc.
P.S. I was a “Hollywood” Marine …………….
TaxPayer
February 9th, 2012
9:01 pm
Seventy-three percent of women receiving an abortion report a religious affiliation.
ld
February 9th, 2012
9:03 pm
IF/when we next go to war in the mideast, I sincerely hope the neocons are not in charge. Trying to liberate people from their own backward mindset is a proven failure. Destroying and occupying their homeland–no matter how much $ is spent rebuilding it afterward–understandably breeds hate. It is far better to identify the enemy and DESTROY them rather than trying to liberate and convert them.
Destroy the leadership and infrastructure–let the people that survive take control w/o occupation. Repeat as necessary. Hopefully, they will eventually learn acceptable behaviour.
The men of the mideast seem to want to live in the stone age w/regard to women’s rights but really love modernity when it comes to war.
If the powers that be here in the US do deem war necessary, we should forget that “hearts and minds” crapola–any chance of getting these people to not be our enemy will be gone w/the first bomb blast.
AmVet -
February 9th, 2012
9:03 pm
TaxPayer, and 82% of the Americans in prison are self-avowed Christians.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
9:03 pm
josef,
Very complicated situation with a pretty well armed military.
Another mess.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
9:05 pm
JKL2
“obama is being pushed around by radicals”
Really? You mean the Iraq thinkgy where for several years Sunni and Shiite were on a cleanse our neighborhood of each other binge. Many Christians left the country.
If you want to play the point the finger game………. I’m game
It will not solve anything; however I have plenty to bash Bush on if you want to bash Obama.
I’m not even saying Obama has done everything right…. He hasn’t. With-that said we can’t run into every country, i.e. I’m saying Bush and Obama deserve some bashing from where I sit
TaxPayer
February 9th, 2012
9:06 pm
…82% of the Americans in prison are self-avowed Christians.
I heard that more and more are converting to Islam.
Mick
February 9th, 2012
9:06 pm
1811
Why would we want to get rid of a perfectly good obama while the republican party is cracking up? Leadership? It’s amateur hour over there…..
Curious Observer
February 9th, 2012
9:07 pm
What was your MOS, career, etc.
I was a 2511—wireman. I thought I’d hit the jackpot until somebody told me that the life expectancy of a wireman in combat is seven seconds, because wiremen have to be out of the foxhole running wire while the 0300s are hunkered down.
JKL2
February 9th, 2012
9:07 pm
the cloud- Obama is meditating on it though That will solve things
Maybe if we sit down with them, and get to understand them, they will stop killing each other…
obama: Building global respect though loving our enemies and alienating our allies.
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
9:07 pm
Obama is meditating on Syria
His proclamation will come any moment now
It will probably be a lecture about how we should all meditate about Syria
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
9:07 pm
Out of wedlock birth rates? Near 70% in the African American community and its climbing in the white community also- around 25% I think it is.
A little more sensitivity towards the African American rate might have been in order. On the other hand though there are certain “uncomfortable truths” in life that there really is no way of dancing around or sugarcoating- and that near 70% rate is one of them. And if we tried to have a serious discussion about how we could solve or at least reduce the rate then it would just degenerate into emotional rants of anger, the R card would get played, and so on. So for the time being it will remain an uncomfortable truth with no real effort to solve the problem.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
9:10 pm
jk please,
They are probably holding him back from firing up the jets and missiles in the war room.
ld
February 9th, 2012
9:10 pm
Read w/i last week or so that there are extremist Jews in Isreal that are attacking little girls for the way they are dressing and insisting some walk on the other side of the road away from their own children. Sounds a lot like the flipside of the Islam coin to me.
I cannot find any sympathy for any religious group here in the US that feels persecuted. Other countries, maybe, but here, persecution is all about $ or their inability to impose their beliefs on others rather than threat to life or limb.
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
9:10 pm
Obama continues his socialism
More bailouts for deadbeats that can’t pay their mortgages
More bailouts for student loan abusers
The few tax paying Americans left will be footing the bill
But not for much longer
Geo
February 9th, 2012
9:10 pm
A Bushbot? Talk about thin skinned. Just like your fearless leader.
What do I not know about the Middle East? You tell me. GP Telemann? You tell me.
Not So Casual Observer
February 9th, 2012
9:11 pm
Butch @ 4:51,
Are you trying to quote Neville Chamberlain word for word? The Left is the least capable of recognizing a threat, you should read the quotes from the Liberals/Progressives/Pacifists from the 1930’s.
So, in your mind the theft of GM and Chrysler from the secured creditors is just “dandy”?
So, to your thought processes the closing of dealerships by the Guv’ment was OK since almost each and every one was owned by a contributor to conservative politicians rather than libs?
The GIFT of an ownership interest to the Unions is OK because you are a lib loon and supported by the union leaders?
The confiscation of 16% of the economy was OK with you because you are in the fantasy land of “free” health care? Have you even noticed the GAO now estimates ObamCare will add triilions of dollars to the deficits?
Did you notice the Obama deal with the 5 largest banks is nothing more than another bailout for their buddies in the financial sector? Before you ask me how their having to “pay” $26 billion is a bailout, you need to realize the money is ultimately coming from the investors in Mortgage Backed Securities in the write-down of their collateral. Those investors are private pension plans, teachers pensions, 401(k) plans and probably even YOU if you have any investments. Also, the secondary markets that have mortgages behind the 1st are now being given a windfall of collateral at NO cost to the 5 banks.
Do you really believe a $2,000 payment to those wrongfully foreclosed is adequate or that a $20,000 write down of the loans will now bring an underwater mortgage back to the surface?
This is just a brief summary of the lies and misrepresentations of the Obama administration in the march to socialism but wait, I can rest easy now because Butch has declared all of this impossible.
You Libs are such suckers for every “feel good” comment coming from this fake POTUS.
P.S. Have you even noticed the monthly increases in electric rates of 9-16%? Obama’s pledge to bankrupt the coal industry is really working out great for you!
Recon 0311 2533
February 9th, 2012
9:11 pm
theyBothsuck,
You’re correct they are tired. They’re tired of multiple deployments and they’re tired of platitudes pretending to acknowledge their sacrifice from politicians who could really care less. I think the all volunteer military has run out of motivation and we’ll need to return to an involuntary draft if we’re to maintain a formidable military force. The only other alternative is to hire foreign mercenaries and then we would finally be emulating ancient Rome and we all know what happened there.
.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
9:13 pm
Cloud- JM,
Yes. I got Obama’s meditation. He sent me a subliminal message clear from the white house. I didn’t even have to use my secret decoder thingie. The message said “Yes. We can!” He then sent a second one which rang true to the tune of “Hope and Change!”. His third and final message sent was a resounding “Change you can believe in!” Damn I’m fired up now! And if I’m jazzed you just know the Syrian people are all fired up somethin crazy.
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
9:15 pm
Curious Observer :
If you were “running wire” you were “OLD CORPS” !
I bet you were issued “boondockers” !
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
9:15 pm
Not so casual
Obama’s policies are indeed about to massively increase electricity bills unless he backs down
The guy is on the verge of causing a 30% increase for electricity in this country
Of course then he will propose electric bailouts for everyone that doesn’t already pay taxes
The guy is insane
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
9:18 pm
Doom
Syrians are most excited by the enlightenment that our dear leader has brought them
As with the spoon, they now understand that they cannot stop the bombs, because there aren’t really any bombs killing them…..
ld
February 9th, 2012
9:18 pm
Maybe Obama was thinking of his decision as standing up for US women against a Pope in the Vatican and hoped it would be perceived as such.
(or maybe he was just trying to rev up the female voters?).
Presidents seem to LIKE their role as commander in chief and as head of state on the international stage better than their role as domestic policy leader of their office because they have more control over it.
It’s all about the power.
Read recently that the president supposedly has more discretionary money than is “earmarked” by congress–not sure that was fact or opinion. Anyone have any specific info on this.
Rachel from the Outside
February 9th, 2012
9:19 pm
There is no difficulty in people having access to contraception if they want it. Obama went out of his way to stick his thumb in the eye of religious people, both protestants and catholics. Obama seems to have no respect for our Constitution, only for his faaar left ideology.
Recon 0311 2533
February 9th, 2012
9:19 pm
C.O. mine began in 1961. We’re not that far apart. Got out in 67. Semper Fi
getalife
February 9th, 2012
9:21 pm
Rachael,
And the politics from the left is women have the right for health care.
You are a woman right?
Recon 0311 2533
February 9th, 2012
9:22 pm
C.O. I was 0311 and in 63 went to RTO school and then went over to Recon as a 2533.
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
9:22 pm
Paul krugman: jackass extraordinaire
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/paul-krugman-vs-the-world-02092012-gfx.html
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
9:23 pm
“Under my energy plan prices will necessarily skyrocket”
Makes you wonder exactly how this guy got elected telling people point blank that their everyday costs of living were going to rise. Not just your monthly utility bills but also food prices in the way of high gas prices which is factored into everything since we have to truck everything all over the place.
Curious Observer
February 9th, 2012
9:23 pm
If you were “running wire” you were “OLD CORPS” !
I bet you were issued “boondockers” !
Yup. For the uninitiated, boondockers were half-boots with the rough side of the leather outside.
And I’ll say that those troops assigned to issue clothing really knew what they were doing. By the time I finished those three months at Parris Island, every clothing item I received fit perfectly. A skinny kid, I gained thirty pounds in those three months. I’ll still never understand how those people knew what sizes to issue at the very beginning of boot camp. I was still wearing that clothing issue four years later.
ld
February 9th, 2012
9:23 pm
Recon
They’re tired of nationbuilding.
Defense department should defend USA or destroy our enemy.
US taxpayers will now pay contractors more than they were paying troops to continue to do that nationbuilding the Bush-league neo-cons started. Given the $ from Iraq oil, this is uttter stupidity. And we’re rebuilding a nation we are likely to need to fight again. (Especially if the religious right wins the job of commander-in-chief and pursues that Armageddon goal.)
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
9:24 pm
Condoms are cheap
No need to require coverage for contraception
It’s like requiring coverage of kleenexes and q-tips
MAATF
February 9th, 2012
9:27 pm
As a Catholic, I am appalled at what the bishops are trying to do. But, they have organized a fire-storm of protest and it is working. I really think what they want is to be sure the Catholic hospitals and universities will be able to have the exemption. Their compromise will be to get rid of that language that goes beyond their own institutions.
It would help if Catholics who have exercised their right to conscience and use birth control – that 70% to 90% of all Catholics – would write their elected representatives and the Obama administration to support the regulations as they are currently written. It would also help if those who benefit because their employers do cover contraceptives would step up to the plate and support other people getting access to contraceptives. You don’t have to support the Affordable Care Act to support the idea that it is not “religious freedom” to allow one faith to impose the tenets of its faith on someone who does not accept them.
Religious freedom is the freedom of the individual, or it doesn’t really exist.
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
9:27 pm
“You are a woman right?”
Getalife, you are a moron right?
Tell you what, don’t answer that just yet.
What did you say earlier that was so obnoxious vile and insulting that jay had to pull it down?
From all people, from you!
Not So Casual Observer
February 9th, 2012
9:27 pm
The Cloud,
A recent study compared electric rates in one Georgia locality on a monthly basis for 2010 and 2011. The smallest increase was 9% and the largest was 16%. The larger increases were predictably in the last months of 2011.
The US has more oil than we can use in the next 200 years (mostly on gov’t land) and our gas prices have doubled under the Obama reign. No new refineries and little hope under Obama. Saudi Arabia, at last check, charges $.09 for a gallon of gas. Exactly how much would our economy benefit from even $1 per gallon gas?
A gallon of orange juice has increased over 25% in the last year, as have many other food items. Yet, the obama admin claims there is no inflation and the Obambots repeatedly tell us how much better off the country is than in 2008.
The Obama goal is economic destruction, not economic boom – unless the boom is an implosion.
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
9:28 pm
When do you think Michelle had Obama neutered?
JKL2
February 9th, 2012
9:28 pm
they both- It will not solve anything
Afghanistan was for OBL and terrorist. Russia already proved it will never be solved. They have been fighting foe thousands of years and I don’t see that changing any time soon. Iraq was with good intentions. It’s better than it was, but we’ll have to see how it all turns out.
I don’t think obama has a clue about anything going on in the world. He’ll do things based on opinion polls, take credit for what works, and blame Bush for everything else.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
9:29 pm
Did ya’ll know they just approved two nuke plants for Ga?
TaxPayer
February 9th, 2012
9:29 pm
Contraceptive use is a key predictor of women’s recourse to abortion. The very small group of American women who are at risk of experiencing an unintended pregnancy but are not using contraceptives account for almost half of all abortions. Many of these women did not think they would get pregnant or had concerns about contraceptive methods.
Contraceptive use is inversely proportional to abortion rate for you mathematically inclined pro-life pragmatists.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
9:29 pm
Recon
“The only other alternative is to hire foreign mercenaries and then we would finally be emulating ancient Rome and we all know what happened there.”
Most are not foreign, but does Blackstock and whatever they are named know ring a bell…
That is not a knock on Bush because the US is still employing 1000s of them
getalife
February 9th, 2012
9:30 pm
jm,
I said you are a moron
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
9:30 pm
Observer
He lives in an ivory tower
He has no concern for the common people like you and me
He couldnt give 2 sh-ts if the average person in this country is struggling
And if he did, he wouldn’t know what to do even if it was handed to him from God himself.
JKL2
February 9th, 2012
9:31 pm
getalife- They are probably holding him back from firing up the jets and missiles in the war room.
Do you get to make those kind of decisions from the little kids table in the corner?
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
9:32 pm
Getalife
Well glad to know jay thinks that was inappropriate
Get, the liar
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
9:35 pm
No nuts Obama is asking Michelle what to do this evening
If she doesn’t help, he will ask Hillary what to do
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
9:36 pm
Ring ring
It’s 3am
Do you know what your president is thinking? (probably “surrender!”)
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
9:38 pm
Cloud-Jm and JKL2,
Ya’ll putting getalife in timeout again? Take it easy on get. He’s spent a lot of time already at the child’s table.
JKL2
February 9th, 2012
9:38 pm
recon- You’re correct they are tired
Which is why we need to keep our troop levels steady for at least a few years. Give the guys some time to decompress for awhile.
With the current economy it will be along time before we ever need to consider going back to a draft.
TaxPayer
February 9th, 2012
9:40 pm
Contraceptive use! What do the people think? Perhaps some polling results are in order.
ld
February 9th, 2012
9:41 pm
Polititions in general–GOP and Dems– have little respect for the individual liberty of Americans. As far as I’m concerned, my liberty ends where everyone elses begins and everyone elses ends where mine begins.
If you haven’t noticed we are losing our rights –supposedly in defense of our nation–that “patriot act” that is anything but patriotic, now indefinite detention. Seems every city intersection has cameras. AJC a while back had an article said the public and private cameras would soon be linked. Big Brother born.
Shades of “Urban Wolf”!!! (a movie I think of every time I notice those ever more present cameras)
No pity for the Catholics. The Bishops and current Pope spent too much time, effort, energy and $ enabling and covering up child abuse for me to ever respect any of them, even individually.
After reading an article about a man who, himself as a child, had been molested by a preist, was outraged because his own child had also been molested by a priest, my reaction was that the father was as guilty as the priest for putting his son in a situation he, personally, knew was unhealthy.
I’ve yet to understand how any Catholic could continue to be Catholic and support this Pope that, prior to becoming Pope, played a major role in the coverup of the child abuse and enabled it to continue by moving the predators about to new “hunting grounds”.
The polititions seem to prefer arguing about stuff rather than resolving problems (sorta like actors–any publicity is good publicity) even though this one is easily solved–a no brainer. (see earlier post about 8:05)
Jay, you should consider running for public office; we need someone w/common sense at the helm.
Recon 0311 2533
February 9th, 2012
9:41 pm
Boondockers, sure takes me back. We were issued a high top boot that was similar to the original boondocker half boot but came up higher like a paratrooper boot. We used saddle soap on them in boot camp but after ITR and in our first infantry assignment we spit shined them to perfection keeping our second pair for the field.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
9:42 pm
Sometimes I forget I am not at the old blog.
Ya’ll could not handle the old blog.
ld
February 9th, 2012
9:43 pm
‘nite all.
Recon 0311 2533
February 9th, 2012
9:45 pm
On boots. I remember in 65 the Marine Corps adopted the shorter doggie (Army) boot that rotted off your feet in Vietnam.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
9:45 pm
How sad. We have Jm in full childish meltdown and Doomy playing the child card on getalife….. you know, the same Doom who got put in time out for drunken blogging. Seems Doom has spend more time in time out than getalife. Taking bets on which card Doomy tries to play next rather than just apologizing to getalife for posting such silliness. Will it be the flea card, the Chihuahua card, the just joking card, the toy card or one of the other cards from his tired deck of worthlessness. Oh right, who cares.
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
9:47 pm
Getalife can’t handle the current blog
Well, take your toys and go home then…..
Don’t even know what the ld blog is, but get apparently can’t take the heat
St Simons - we're on Island time
February 9th, 2012
9:48 pm
There’s no outrage like manufactured outrage
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
9:49 pm
St simons
There’s no margarita like a blended frozen margarita
Though they are good on the rocks too
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
9:50 pm
St Simons
U know anything about sailboats?
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
9:51 pm
Obama the divider in chief has successfully divided our nation for his benefit
It will take a new president to glue us back together
JKL2
February 9th, 2012
9:54 pm
Jm- Do you know what your president is thinking?
Can I fit in 18 holes between campaign appearances tomorrow?
Get Real
February 9th, 2012
9:54 pm
Keep…..you are the one that needs to getalife as you are on Bookman’s liberal love blog morning, noon and night every single day……it would be funny if not so sad
getalife
February 9th, 2012
9:55 pm
No jm.
0311/1811
February 9th, 2012
9:55 pm
This is just one of a thousand reasons why this country is in such trouble. And what percentage do you think are being used in drug deals, illegals calling to Mexico/other countries or just teenagers yacking all day and night. Most Americans are starting to get pretty sick and tired of this foolishness.
Headline (TIME): “Washington Footing the Cell Phone Bill for Millions of Low Income Americans”
“Last year, a federal program paid out $1.6 billion to cover free cell phones and the monthly bills of 12.5 million wireless accounts. The program, overseen by the FCC and intended to help low-income Americans, is popular for obvious reasons, with participation rising steeply since 2008, when the government paid $772 million for phones and monthly bills.”
http://news.yahoo.com/washington-footing-cell-phone-bill-millions-low-income-202500656.html
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
9:56 pm
Just does not sound reasonable to me. Isn’t that the test. Whether or not its reasonable.
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
9:57 pm
Sad thing is, if you had decide between Barack and Michelle to have in your “fighitn’ hole”, it would be a difficult decision!
Prol’ wouldn’t make much difference tho.
Recon 0311 2533
February 9th, 2012
9:58 pm
Kind of early but looks like the blogs slowing down. good night all. Taps
St Simons - we're on Island time
February 9th, 2012
9:59 pm
Jm, buddy, all I know is they are a handful, and there’s a reason they invented the outboard motor. Some people love em though
Geo
February 9th, 2012
10:01 pm
“Ring ring
It’s 3am
Do you know what your president is thinking? (probably “surrender!”)”
You mean he’s Italian?
getalife
February 9th, 2012
10:02 pm
Our country is back.
Did you not listen?
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
10:04 pm
Nothing like cutting off the motor, the wind fills the sails, the hull rolls to a 30 degree angle and all you hear is the ocean (and maybe the humming of the keel if your lucky).
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
10:04 pm
if “you’re” lucky – for the fashion police…
godless heathen
February 9th, 2012
10:05 pm
What a tiresome debate that should not even be a debate. Insurance companies should cover what the hell ever they want to cover. People should buy insurance policies that cover what they need. Insurance companies should be free to offer plans that cover contraceptives, abortions, viagra, or not. All they should have to do is disclose what is covered for the price of the premium. Free people could then choose whether they wanted to buy an insurance policy that covered what they need, or not. It is a very sad state that it is no longer debated whether or not government should dictate the terms of an agreement between free people and a privately owned provider, but only what terms the government should dictate.
To paraphrase Edna St Vincent Millay:
It’s not freedom’s going that pains my days,
but that it went in such little ways.
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
10:07 pm
Thank you, heathen.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
10:10 pm
You cons tend to be a tad bias.
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
10:11 pm
Enter your comments here
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
10:11 pm
getalife! and you’re not???
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
10:12 pm
Jkl2
St simons I love them, sailboats that is
Disgusted
February 9th, 2012
10:13 pm
Insurance companies should be free to offer plans that cover contraceptives, abortions, viagra, or not.
Not as easy as it sounds in group policies. Tailor-making policies destroys the large numbers necessary for determining pricing. That’s why you won’t see many customer companies offering employees more than a single plan.
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
10:13 pm
“Our country is back.”
Yeah back in some twisted new version of carter and nixonian hell.
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
10:13 pm
godless heathen
In an idea world that would be correct. But in the US we have employer provided coverage. The individual has to take whatever the employer provides. That distorts the market. If the employer changes the plan, employee may not be able to leave because he could not get any insurance. He’s stuck in his job and stuck with what is provided. Very nutty system that needs changing.
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
10:14 pm
Moonbat
When you’re crazy like getalife, you’re not biased
You’re just crazy
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
10:15 pm
7000 dead in Syria
Obama ponders. And meditates. Campfire songs are next.
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
10:16 pm
Ha ha, Cloud!
to you and getalife:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCSc0EVTS40
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
10:16 pm
Don’t think we want to invade Syria.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
10:17 pm
moonbat,
No.
jm,
Clintonian.
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
10:17 pm
Obama is probably sending Iran nuclear tech and directions on how to bomb NY
I wouldn’t rule it out anyway
Obama is anti American
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
10:19 pm
Getalife
Nixon was hell
Clinton not so much
With Clinton there were good jobs and fiscal discipline
With Obama, not so much
getalife
February 9th, 2012
10:20 pm
Oscar,
No ground troops.
It is a heck of a time to be in the CIA and Special Forces.
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
10:20 pm
“No”
getalife,
LIAR!
godless heathen
February 9th, 2012
10:20 pm
For example. If I own an interior design firm in Midtown Atlanta, why should I be forced to buy an insurance policy for my employees that provides free oral contraceptives. The likelihood of one of my designers getting pregnant is virtually nil so why should the employees have to pay a rate calculated on providing a drug that would be better suited for a beauty parlor in Snellville?
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
10:21 pm
Sooth is the resident conspiracy theorist
Hey sooth, after Obama is done destroying the US economically, will he try to bomb it?
godless heathen
February 9th, 2012
10:22 pm
“Very nutty system that needs changing.”
Yup. And the more the government gets involved, they harder it is to change.
Scooter
February 9th, 2012
10:23 pm
I am a 48 year old gay man and I am for gay marriage and I love seeing all the changes. I am soooooooo happy. wsm_marathoner
The Cloud-Jm
February 9th, 2012
10:23 pm
Ok. Poor getalife can’t take the heat
I’m going to turn the burners down for him and catch some shut eye
Cheerio
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
10:24 pm
“Tailor-making policies destroys the large numbers necessary for determining pricing.”
Wrong. Tailor-making policies gives people freedom and choice, including the freedom and choice of not having to pay for services such as maternity, mental health, and contraceptives that they simply do not want and do not need. At least in individual policies this is a huge advantage- and also the reasons why a typical individual policy costs only 60-70% of what a typical group plan costs because of the choice factor.
“That’s why you won’t see many customer companies offering employees more than a single plan.”
Somewhat right and wrong. The last company I worked for offered plans from 3 different companies. Now the plans were the same for each company offered so you are correct about that. But they are the same plan for the ease of both the company and the employees and are somewhat standardized because they have to offer the same mandated state coverages such as maternity and mental health.
A growing trend with smaller size businesses is to pay the employees an extra monthly amount such as $300 and let him or her go out and shop and get their own insurance.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
10:25 pm
They have a large military and population.
Some of our jets and pilots will be lost.
Lots of civilian casualties.
Then a civil war and Islamic rule.
Tough call.
godless heathen
February 9th, 2012
10:25 pm
Health insurance needs to be divorced from employment. I don’t get auto insurance from my employer. It was initiated as a benefit. Most employers hate it and most employees hate it. Make it illegal for employers to provide health insurance.
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
10:25 pm
“The likelihood of one of my designers getting pregnant is virtually nil so why should the employees have to pay a rate calculated on providing a drug that would be better suited for a beauty parlor in Snellville?”
1. Ineptocracy
*_Ineptocracy_****(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least
capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded
with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number
of producers.
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
10:26 pm
godless heathen
No, sometimes things get so screwed up the government has to step in and regulate to straighten things out and protect those without any other recourse. If you are the lion, that’s bad. For the lamb, govt. help for protection against abuse or being eaten is a good thing.
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
10:28 pm
godless heathen
You just said the less government interferes the better. Now you want government to interfere. Opposite comments in three minutes flat. While I was typing my answer to your other comment you agreed with me. I could have saved my time.
godless heathen
February 9th, 2012
10:29 pm
Oscar:
Let me correct your statement:
No, sometimes things get so screwed up the government has to step in AND SCREW IT UP WORSE.
Used to be screwed up for some, bring in government and screw it up for all.
Good night.
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
10:31 pm
godless heathen
Good grief. Another change of position. Multiply personality disorder?
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
10:33 pm
The funny thing is that obama was supposed to “reform” healthcare/insurance?
My healthcare insurance premiums are 7 times higher now than in ‘07, with less benefits on the same Blue Cross/Blue Shield.
That’s some f’ing change for ya.
Billybob
February 9th, 2012
10:34 pm
like i’ve said before jay….check it…….hussein’s record, his own words, his radical views for this country, and his ego will bring him down this fall……….this is just another example of his disconnect with the heartbeat of the people………your argument is squat b/c this is a 1st amendment issue and the correct ruling trumps anything you argue, especially the incinuation that the church is the one making this political………what a crock and this is LIB 101 projection……..hussein is the one who made this political with his decision to pursue this, the church reacted to the rule…..YOU, my friend, politicizing this with your opinion and your argument………..in the end hussein will expose exactly who he is to more and more people who were never exposed to this last time around………which, of course, was due to amazing amounts of flat out liberal media bias…..this was fun
getalife
February 9th, 2012
10:34 pm
They stepped in because the costs were too high .
Repeal it and the same will happen.
Z
February 9th, 2012
10:35 pm
Sounds to me like the Bishops are trying to fix it so all women, believers or not will not be able to get any health care. He!!, why don’t we just put women in cages and just bring them out when needed. After all it says in the bible, women are to be seen and not heard and are suppose to walk ten paces behind a man, that is, when they are allowed out with body and face covered of course. Is this still America or have we been turned into a Theocracy by the Religious Right?
getalife
February 9th, 2012
10:35 pm
Why was the costs so high?
Greed silly.
They have to regulate sin.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
10:37 pm
Z,
There is a gop war on women ya know.
Billybob
February 9th, 2012
10:37 pm
Z,
zzzzzzz….
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
10:39 pm
Oscar,
I see what godless is saying and he is largely right. Just look at whatever the govt gets involved in. 90% of the time they not only don’t fix the problem- they compound it and make it dramatically worse. Given govt ineptitude that we see everyday it boggles my mind as to how and why people place so much blind faith in govt bureaucrats. It really makes no sense.
Ted
February 9th, 2012
10:41 pm
Bookman is an embarrassment to the paper which is a standard hard to achieve. He relies on USA Today for his point?
getalife
February 9th, 2012
10:42 pm
Government does not fix problems when gop are in power.
They can’t govern.
Why vote for them?
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
10:43 pm
If the costs going up is a problem, the only ways to hold costs down is to go to a single payer system and ration care, or to go our present direction of rationing care by only letting those who can afford it have care. Either way the care is rationed. Take your pick.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
10:45 pm
It’s a simple question.
obl was a problem.
Fixed him.
Boom.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
10:45 pm
getalife
February 9th, 2012
10:35 pm
Why was the costs so high?
Greed silly.
That’s kind of a silly answer get. Want to bring down costs? Get away from the 3rd party payor system and make people pay for the routine costs themselves so that they see what the actual costs are instead of the 3rd party payer being the one to see what the actual costs are. You’ll see premiums drop in a flash.
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
10:47 pm
Thulsa Doom
His problem was he does not see that when the govt. makes employer provided care illegal, they are getting involed in the market in a big way. He wants involment he likes but he does not want involment he doesn’t like.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
10:48 pm
Oscar,
Its not that simple. The gap between haves and have nots would be even greater under a socialized system. The connected people whether they be wealthy people or politically connected people of either stripe would get treated. The average Joe on the street? Not so much. And the rationed care would mean our seniors would surely suffer the most. And they are not going to put up with that as a powerful voting block.
Billybob
February 9th, 2012
10:49 pm
Ted,
or you might look at it this way……the AJC is following the same plan enacted by the holy grail of liberal rags(nytimes)…..print so much bias that you lose 80% of you readers…..will they AJC need to call carlos slim soon?
getalife
February 9th, 2012
10:50 pm
doomy,
We should join the rest of the civilized world and provide heath care and put you out of a job.
Why do you vote for a party that can’t fix anything?
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
10:53 pm
“makes employer provided care illegal, they are getting involed in the market in a big way”
I understand that. Its govt getting involved in a big way in the opposite side of the spectrum. I think godless may have just been frustrated with the idea that the govt is as usual just going to make things worse.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
10:54 pm
getalife,
As an insurance agent I’m all for getting insurance out of the health business in terms of routine care. But if people want to buy catastrophic insurance there’s no reason why they shouldn’t be able to do so. And no reason for you to care either.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
10:56 pm
Been an interesting conversation but I’m beat. Doomy out. Gnight all.
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
10:56 pm
I don’t see how you can compare the United States health care and insurance issues with any country in Europe or Canada.
What works there (and that’s highly debatable) falls under an entirely different set of circumstances here here…
getalife
February 9th, 2012
10:57 pm
doomy,
You kick patients off insurance when they get sick until the President said no.
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
10:58 pm
hear hear?
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
11:05 pm
All they have to do is ask if you are better off than you were in ‘07.
The reformed health insurance plan has sent premiums through the roof. Does anyone have better rates now????
Unemployment has risen, most of them have given up and resorted to unemployment checks and food stamps for the unforeseen future..
And like it or not, gas prices take the biggest chunk out of our economy and I haven’t heard a word from the left on it since Bushy left office…
getalife
February 9th, 2012
11:09 pm
w is hiding in his bunker with cheney.
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
11:12 pm
Way to stick those taxes to the 1% ers!
Lots more $$ in the pockets of the middle class now:
http://gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
11:14 pm
I am much better off than I was in 2007. No question about it. And the country is too. That means Obama should be re-elected.
TC in Atlanta
February 9th, 2012
11:14 pm
Poor JB, if he could only get a flight to Cuba, North Korea, China, etc. where all of his “ideas” are shared by those that need to be “led” as opposed to be “free”. Let’s see how your “free press” would work in those countries, ’cause your time is running out in this country with this CO in office……so is ours! We’re F?!ked!!
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
11:15 pm
Oscar, you must be a 1% er then…
Cut me a check for $1500 or you go to jail.
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
11:17 pm
moonbat
No, not a one per center. But still better off. Hit it just right for retirement. Lucky more than anything else.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
11:22 pm
Again.
All those who say our country is in decline does not know what they are talking about .
WE ARE BACK!
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
11:26 pm
That’s great, Oscar.
You must not have relied on a 401K and were fortunate not to get laid off.
You are most likely an exception.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
11:27 pm
moonbat,
willard will bet ya 10 k.
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
11:27 pm
“WE ARE BACK”
Who is “WE”?
getalife
February 9th, 2012
11:31 pm
We are the United States of America silly.
Numbers are heading in the right direction and they don’t lie.
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 9th, 2012
11:37 pm
Let’s hope so get.
I think we’re getting too close to election time for obama…
Once he has to come out of the closet, the economy will probably be “almost” fixed and he will just need a couple of more months to fix “us” according to Jay and the rest of the MSM.
I hope I am wrong, but I think someone is getting too much of a tingling feeling down their leg right now.
Just a hunch…
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 10th, 2012
12:18 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS1NfjLkdSM&ob=av2e
it’s all good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS1NfjLkdSM&ob=av2e
Oscar
February 10th, 2012
12:28 am
On the other hand, you have to look at the opposition. Don’t really see any. Nobody trusts Romney. Newt is too old and unstable. Santorum is to rigid and has to many views incompatable with the American voters. Ron Paul is a likable old kook. Sounds to me like easy money.
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 10th, 2012
12:37 am
FEAR THE MITTENS.
Minnesoda doesn’t count. They are f’d up. They elected a rassler and am snl douche bag as their gov. and senator.
Obama better bribe some foreign leaders and oil execs if he wants to win again.
I’m sure he will accept on-line donations…
CharlieB
February 10th, 2012
12:40 am
@MoonBat – What is the MSM or mainstream media? Please, please give me an example of the mainstream news stations coddling the left or “liberals”. On my television, I just get the news of the day on the MSM. Back up your claim for once. Just give me one example.
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 10th, 2012
12:43 am
CharlieB, turn on channel 2 any day at 6:00.
For example.
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 10th, 2012
12:46 am
or 5, 11, msnbc, usatoday, cnn, wapo, ajc,
etc. etc. etc.
night night
CharlieB
February 10th, 2012
12:47 am
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 10th, 2012
12:43 am
CharlieB, turn on channel 2 any day at 6:00.
For example.
Listen to the news everyday. And for what should I listen that lets me know they are bias towards the left? Simple question. You made the statement, just asking for examples.
Midori
February 10th, 2012
12:48 am
CB–
translation: “i got nothing but the crap I pull out of my @ss, which by the way, I like to spout as facts”
Midori
February 10th, 2012
12:50 am
what an ugly and complete con melt down. LOL!!!
they are all tripping over themselves!!
pathetic creatures
conspiracy theories at 1:00!!
Obama should really take your guns, you bunch of effing loons
CharlieB
February 10th, 2012
12:52 am
@Midori – 12:48 am
Yeah I figured that, but since I was up working and perusing blogs, just thought I’d ask. It’s the same as when I ask a poster to list Obama’s policies that have caused companies not to hire or the policies that have specifically hurt Obama’s own people (African Americans). Never get an answer even though one blogger stated that “He had personally experienced the negative affect of Obama’s policies”. I just like toying with folks logic. Have a good night.
Midori
February 10th, 2012
12:54 am
night Charlie
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 10th, 2012
12:55 am
meltdown = midori
:0 
:0
CharlieB: I gave you several examples.
now kiss midori’s fat ass.
CharlieB
February 10th, 2012
1:04 am
moonbat betty (Ineptocrats for obama)
February 10th, 2012
12:55 am
meltdown = midori :0 :0
CharlieB: I gave you several examples.
now kiss midori’s fat ass.
Wow! Total B.S.
You gave me several channels to which I could tune, but you never gave me an example of media bias on any of the channels. You never cited one news story.
Now if you consider telling me to watch various channels as proof of media bias, I am not surprised that you believe and regurgitate, without any foundation, what you hear on right wing radio/tv.
Tell you what, let’s agree to watch the news today (Friday 2/10/2012) at what ever time is convenient for you and you communicate to me when there is bias.
Tom Middleton
February 10th, 2012
2:48 am
If not for the fact that we’re in one of the most intensive election cycles in our history, I wouldn’t even believe that we’re having this debate about contraception. To me, it’s a simple no-brainer.
I mean, in a country and world filled with AIDS, overpopulation, and economic hard times, why are we still having to deal with a church more in service to its dogma than to its people?
I know one reason, at least in part: How can a church claim eternal infallibility, then have to turn around later and admit that it was wrong? But on this issue, it is, of course, and most of us these days know it well-beyond doubt.
In Africa, countless villages are being devastated by AIDS, with many surviving children needing a grandparent or older sibling to raise them. Wouldn’t it have been better by far if the parents could have used protection instead?
And in a world now numbering seven billion (Wasn’t it just four billion a decade or so ago?), where is the fear of the future we will face when there are too many people for our world to habitate?
And finally, what chance will most Americans have going forward when we can’t control our family size for the quality of life we want. For instance, have one or two children in the future and they might get to go to a college or some higher level of learning, but four or five or even six or more? I mean, is there anyone today, including the politicians, who can guarantee they all will get to go as well?
Now I know this last one is for Democrats only, for the Republican rich will always, always take care of their own. But since there are many more of us than there are of them, shouldn’t it be a top priority for the most of us today?
Oh, and if you’re looking for a Rick Santorum presidency to help you deal with this, forget it. Like his Catholic Church, he doesn’t believe in contraception, and has said it would be fine with him if the states made it illegal.
So here’s my question to anyone who thinks we deserve a bright future: Are we willing to stand by while others try to take over our lives, or are we finally ready to take control of them ourselves? For if it is the latter – and I hope it is – then we need to get started now and not put it off.
As individuals, each one of us has the guaranteed right of Freedom of Religion, meaning we get to decide what we believe, not someone else. And for those of us Christians who believe in Jesus’ divinity, that also means believing in what he taught as well.
Jesus said to love the Lord with all our heart, mind, and soul, and to do unto others what we would have others do unto us. And since everything else he taught he said is based upon these two, where is the need (or even room) for a go-between at all?
And since we have the same access to God that Jesus had and taught, which means that God alone can teach us what we need to know, why must we back down from those we know don’t mean us well?
Please pray for our President, for he is the one who is always on our side!
Tom Middleton
February 10th, 2012
2:53 am
Please pray for our President, for he is the only one RUNNING who is always on our side.
Bill Orvis White
February 10th, 2012
5:04 am
I DON’T want big gov’t dictating to any health care institution as to what they need to insure, pure and simple. This is Big Brother at its worst. Since this is a Big Gov’t that waged a war on religion three years ago, it’s NOT AT ALL SURPRISING THAT THIS IS HAPPENING! This is what WE THE PEOPLE have been subjected to all of this time. THIS IS NOT ABOUT CONTRACEPTION SO MUCH AS THIS IS ABOUT TREATING RELIGIOUS FOLK LIKE RAG DOLLS. For that, this “administration” NEEDS to be ousted immediately!
Amen,
Bill
USinUK
February 10th, 2012
5:25 am
“Obama should really take your guns, you bunch of effing loons ”
ah, midori, that totally made my morning …
Bill Orvis White
February 10th, 2012
5:44 am
@Tom Middleton
You are one of too many who simply repeat the same old tired progressive class warfare talking points. Do you all receive mass e-mails from Bawney Fwank dictating idiotic leftwing policies and then all of you get on these lefty blogs and MSNBC only to mindlessly repeat them? You are all a bunch of sheep masquerading around as if you are superior to those of us who feel that we pay way too much in taxe$, feel the ever encroaching hand of gov’t in our lives and engage in caterwauling against capitalism and a pro-business environment.
Frankly, I’m sick and tired of a failed Marxist running my life with over-regulation, showing contempt for those who value life and God and the implement burdensome taxes. I pray for this installed-”leader” to leave the Oval Office as soon as possible.
Amen,
Bill
Bill Orvis White
February 10th, 2012
5:48 am
@USinUK
How’s that failed gov’t-run health care working out for you? Oh wait, you probably like it because you never had anything major happen to you or you got some great private plan to avoid the failed national-run system. Spare me, it’s a disaster and the world knows it. It’s also a disaster that you cannot properly protect yourselves over there. I live and breathe the second amendment which is the cornerstone to freedom in this once-free nation. I cannot wait until we get a real president who can get PM Cameron some stones and stand up to you Labor progressive fools over there who have damaged that country so badly you cannot hardly recognize it any longer. You haven’t had a good leader since Lady Thatcher.
Amen,
Bill
USinUK
February 10th, 2012
5:57 am
“I DON’T want big gov’t dictating to any health care institution as to what they need to insure, pure and simple”
HUZZAH!!! let’s all pay premiums for … a crap-shoot.
frankly, I DO want government to “dictate” what should be basic coverage for ALL – so that insurance companies have to cover overnight stays for women to recover from childbirth … so that certain diagnostic tests are included in basic coverage … and that, yes, all forms of birth control are included in basic coverage – as that is a basic necessity for ALL young women.
USinUK
February 10th, 2012
5:58 am
“How’s that failed gov’t-run health care working out for you? ”
what failed government-run health care???
the UK has a higher life expectancy than the US … and we pay less for it than you do.
so, yeah, it works out for us just fine, half-wit.
USinUK
February 10th, 2012
5:59 am
“I cannot wait until we get a real president who can get PM Cameron some stones and stand up to you Labor progressive fools over there”
oh, and while we’re at it, I’m NOT laboUr … thankyewverymuch.
stands for decibels
February 10th, 2012
6:00 am
mornin’.
. I live and breathe the second amendment
The only amendment that matterz.
Seriously, Obama should tell the Bishops that he’s doubling down and planning to eliminate the Hyde Amendment, just to watch these a-holes soil themselves.
USinUK
February 10th, 2012
6:02 am
dB –
USinUK
February 10th, 2012
6:14 am
dB – just in case you didn’t see the brill TBogg
http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2012/02/09/triumph-of-the-pill/
Bud Wiser
February 10th, 2012
6:19 am
This is just perhaps the most stupid, ill informed, ignorant and misleading column I have ever read.
Separation of church and state is clearly defined in the Constitution, and the Obama socialist agenda is in clear violation of that. Even some of his most trusted (if there is such a word in their dictionary)minions advised him against it.
It is not about “women’s rights”; that is a subterfuge.
It is not about “reproductive rights”. Any democrat can get off their fat butts waddle down to the local Planned Parenthood to acquire free (to them) variety of contraceptive devices. Unfortunately not enough of them are motivated to do so, opting instead for the free ride on the welfare train, spewing multiple births from multiple ‘daddys’, but that is another story.
This is a frontal, undisguised assault on the Constitution of the United States by a socialist pig, not capable of running a community oraganization, least of all a country, any country. Period.
Aquagirl
February 10th, 2012
6:25 am
This is just perhaps the most stupid, ill informed, ignorant and misleading column I have ever read.
I think somebody needs to switch to decaf.
Jay
February 10th, 2012
6:29 am
I’d suggest that Bud just got up on the wrong side of the bed, but I think Bud’s bed only has that one side.
Normal
February 10th, 2012
6:33 am
Jay,
and that one side is by an open window…he falls out every morning…
Normal
February 10th, 2012
6:37 am
Got this in an email last night…
http://dailyagenda.org/
Normal
February 10th, 2012
6:37 am
Where are my manners? Good, good, Friday morni ng to all y’all!
Bud Wiser
February 10th, 2012
6:45 am
Yeah, that’s right Bookman, use your limited intelligence to attack the messenger instead of addressing the message. What’s the matter, the Constitution too complicated for you?
The First Amendment states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” Ordering Catholics to make birth control available seems simple enough to fall under the ‘free exercise’ thereof. You leftists seem comfortable with the concept of ‘free’ when it comes to welfare, food stamps and now mortgage ‘assistance’ for the obviously unqualified.
What’s the problem? Not had enough time to respond, or is it over your head?
I would expect no less than what I’ve seen so far from a mushhead like Abnormal, or a media stooge of the democrat party.
Aquagirl
February 10th, 2012
6:46 am
Mornin’ Normal.
I can never quite muster the “good” part, even if it is Friday.
Guy Incognito
February 10th, 2012
6:50 am
Now that a growing # of muslim immams are also upset, the Pres will “walk this decision back” sooner rather than later
USinUK
February 10th, 2012
6:51 am
“Ordering Catholics to make birth control available”
ah.
I see the problem
he’s talking out of his backside … again.
USinUK
February 10th, 2012
6:52 am
Morning, Normal … Morning Jay … Hiya AquaGirl!
happy happy FRIDAY!!!
Normal
February 10th, 2012
6:55 am
Aquagirl…I understand. I always say that Friday is just two days away from Monday…
But, what the hell…..
josef
February 10th, 2012
6:59 am
Damn! Wish I didn’t have to work today, folks already up and at ‘em before dawn!
JAY
I told you this one was going to get dicey back when and you’re getting more milage out of it than global warming, evolution, the long form, abortion, and the Dog Third…
USinUK
Yeal, Brother Bill may be a half wit, but, boy, is that half of a wit something to behold…!
And Brother Bill…
You sure you ain’t Sen. Holland? How are things on the Gulf of America? Y’all just keep reeling ‘em in and they just keep a’bitin’…
Brie
February 10th, 2012
7:00 am
FEMALE contraceptives for free? Why not all maintenance drugs for free? Because with this president, not all things are equal. I never knew pregnancy was a disease.
granny godzilla
February 10th, 2012
7:00 am
Good Morning Campers!
50 years ago the right fought against JFK for fear of the Pope ruling America.
Now it appears they’ll bend over for him.
Bill Orvis White
February 10th, 2012
7:06 am
..and @Bud Wiser is right as usual because this so-called “leader” has shredded The Constitution so much, who can recognize it any longer? Gimme a break. At least @USinUK admits that he wants the state to control his health care. Why can’t WE THE PEOPLE choose our health care from A-Z? Tear down the walls of company-mandated group health care, let private insurers operate everywhere, let private insurers offer a variety of packages from the low to high deductibles AND GET HUSSEIN OBAMA, NANNY PELOSI AND HAIRY REID OUT OF THE BUSINESS OF MAKING DECISIONS FOR ME AND HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS!
Amen,
Bill