Bishops’ complaint an all-out war on contraception
I think it’s important to understand just what the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops is demanding in its war against contraception coverage. Here’s USA Today on the matter:
The White House is “all talk, no action” on moving toward compromise, said Anthony Picarello, general counsel for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. “There has been a lot of talk in the last couple days about compromise, but it sounds to us like a way to turn down the heat, to placate people without doing anything in particular,” Picarello said. “We’re not going to do anything until this is fixed.”
That means removing the provision from the health care law altogether, he said, not simply changing it for Catholic employers and their insurers. He cited the problem that would create for “good Catholic business people who can’t in good conscience cooperate with this.”
“If I quit this job and opened a Taco Bell, I’d be covered by the mandate,” Picarello said.
In other words, the bishops are not merely demanding that church-affiliated organizations be exempted from the requirement that contraception be covered in health insurance. They are insisting that the contraception requirement be abolished altogether.
The proposed legislative fix endorsed by the bishops, HR 1179, makes that explicitly clear. It states that no insurer or employer can be required to provide coverage if paying for such coverage “is contrary to the religious beliefs or moral convictions of the sponsor, issuer, or other entity offering the plan; or (if) such coverage (in the case of individual coverage) is contrary to the religious beliefs or moral convictions of the purchaser or beneficiary of the coverage.”
Again, that is not a fix limited to churches or church-affliated organizations. It would prohibit the contraception requirement across the board, for every employer and insurer.
If you had any doubts about how political this all is, that ought to resolve them. Twenty-eight states, including conservative Georgia, have had laws on the books for years that require contraceptives be covered, with not a squeak of protest or complaint.
And yet now it becomes a threat to religious liberty?
– Jay Bookman
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
1,108 comments Add your comment
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
3:56 pm
(ir)….. well go up there sporting a southern accent and saying y’all, they might just think you have a terrible accent. And be careful with a New Yawk/New Wicked Jersey accent…..
Accents or not, its a beautiful city, great history, and a lot of fine people. Some of the finest people have come from there, gone to school there, or visited there and walked away with a better sense of what it means to be American.
jewcowboy
February 9th, 2012
3:57 pm
Bosch,
“Being a capitalist pig is hard work.”
Doubly so when you have to make up for your socialist views
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
3:57 pm
Normal – Maybe so, but I have a hard time believing that is the same “God” that most Christians worship. Just sayin. Personally, I have no real dog in this fight, just enjoy stirring the sh*t a bit.
Bosch
February 9th, 2012
3:58 pm
Recon, real Normal’s earlier post — your hatred of anything Obama really clouds your credibility with military issues.
When the UN decides to act, they will — and I hope soon. And when that happens, we will provide support, as we should.
Never again, should we send in our troops alone.
Pleasant evening folks.
Lord Help Us
February 9th, 2012
4:00 pm
Jay, I don’t mean to complain but these sheets remind me of an old college roommate. You don’t wanna know…
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
4:00 pm
Well okay 3 replies. Adam and theyBothsuck, agree that it’s an outrage. The third respondent really didn’t offer and opinion. Hardly a quorum but actually more than I expected.
md
February 9th, 2012
4:01 pm
“Stupid does enter into it, or rather Iran’s lack of stupid when it comes to war/conflict with the US. They do not want that, despite their bluster. They have seen what happens when you pick on the U.S. and the fact that Obama is in the White House doesn’t change that at all, especially considering things like Seal Team 6 and drones….
Because of ALL THAT and more, they will NOT be able to close the strait, nor will they try.”
Well, we’ll have to differ on this opinion. In my opinion, you and tbs underestimate the power of beliefs…….
Time will tell, and I hope I’m wrong…….but considering the several thousand years of historical religious conflict, I’m guessing I’m right.
Palestine could have a State today, if Hamas didn’t want Israel gone as a condition…..those beliefs run deep.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
4:01 pm
Recon: We do agree on some stuff and you didn’t start with something really incendiary about the people you were asking the question of.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
4:02 pm
(ir)Rational — “JHM – Yeah, I’ve always wanted to go to Boston (yeah, I managed to hit New England including a large part of Mass without getting to Boston), but the Mrs. just can’t stand the accent.”
Boston’s a great American city to visit IMO. There’s absolutely TONS of history and there are great walking tours. And the seafood and Italian cuisine is fantastic — if you ever go, head to the North End. That’s where the Old North Church is (remember, one if by land, two if by sea?), and it’s an ethnic Italian neighborhood now. Go in ANY of the little restaurants lining Hanover Street and you can’t lose. If you go early in the week, you stand a good chance of being the only people in the place, and the staff will treat you like family. It’s what Olive Garden claims to deliver, but you can *really* get it there.
To make the wife happy, take a water taxi to the Long Wharf and then walk five minutes to the North End. She’ll love it.
saywhat?
February 9th, 2012
4:03 pm
One fellow from the Boston area proclaimed that his favorite band was “Hot,” a group no one else had ever heard of. He was mystified and eventually infuriated that no one else knew who “Hot” was.
And I’m flashing back to an early business meeting with a guy in a Boston suburb who wanted to know if I had a cod.
I’m thinking, “like… a fish? a pet fish?”
He got kinda hrrumphy and said, “no, a cod. A business cod.”
_______________________________________________________
It goes both ways. I am from Connecticut originally. When I told a friend from South Carolina that my son’s name was Liam, she looked confused and said “You mean like a tree Liam?”
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
4:03 pm
Keep – Last time I was in New York (well, technically I believe Fort Monmouth is in Jersey), I hadn’t been there for five minutes before someone was making fun of my accent. I promptly told him “to shut his dam mouth, that if I wanted to hurt my ears I would come find him and let abuse them with his accent.” Oh, and prefaced that by calling him a Dam Yankee. I was about 8 or 9, and my mom was standing there when all this happened. Yeah, I couldn’t sit down for about a week or two. The nickname stuck though. Everyone in the family still calls him Dam Yankee. Apparently, some other guys in his unit thought it was hilarious and the nickname stuck with him in the Army too. Great way to meet the guy your favorite aunt is marrying.
Joseph
February 9th, 2012
4:04 pm
If the church had a union it wouldn’t be a problem would it Jay?????
md
February 9th, 2012
4:05 pm
“I don’t see the top Mullahs and Clerics deciding all to die, because havoc will be reigned down on them, so Israel can be nuked”
And I doubt you believe as they do…..I “believe” that their “beliefs” will dictate their actions, not whether they get to remain in power……if they believe there is a better place waiting for them, especially if they can martyr themselves by getting rid of Israel, what exactly is there to stop them??
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
4:06 pm
JHM – We have an agreement, I get to go to Boston and she gets to pick some horrible place that I had/have no desire to visit. My wife is so cool she picked Vegas. I pretended to protest for a while, but gave it up when I realized she wasn’t buying it.
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
4:06 pm
“Recon, real Normal’s earlier post — your hatred of anything Obama really clouds your credibility with military issues.”
I don’t hate everything Obama, I just don’t believe he’s proved himself worthy of a second term. As for the U.N. acting, you may or you may not know Russia and China vetoed the resolution to take even limited action. I’m glad you’re working but try to be more informed and less presumptive.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:06 pm
It’ll be interesting to see how the Right frames the debate now. Will they support a ban on contraceptives because to do otherwise will be a war on religion? Or will they say ‘uh-uh, this goes too far”? Then how will the address they’ve become party to the War on Religion?
Hey Bosch!
You’ve missed some serious good fun here.
If you consider having the Right avoid answering simple questions to be fun, that is.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
4:07 pm
Recon: I don’t hate everything Obama, I just don’t believe he’s proved himself worthy of a second term
Ok but have any of the GOP candidates proved they deserve a term instead of Obama?
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
4:07 pm
“You mean like a tree Liam?”
“Great way to meet the guy your favorite aunt is marrying.”
No matter who you are and where you’re from, somewhere in America, there are people who think YOU talk funny.
md
February 9th, 2012
4:08 pm
If yous guys are going to talk about Boston, at least spell it right…..it’s Bwoston.
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
4:09 pm
JHM – I don’t think Yankees talk funny, I KNOW they do. There is a difference. By the way, you sayin I talk funny? I’ll kick yer arse for that boy.
Oh, one thing we can all agree on, is them Canadians. Now THEY talk real funny.
AmVet -
February 9th, 2012
4:11 pm
jconservative, as for that guy saying he and his pals would go to jail, ala the civil rights protesters of yore, puhleeze.
Acts of great moral courage are not found in men like that. I’d wager that in less than 4 hours he would be calling the head attorney for the Southern Baptist Convention to get his ass out of jail in time for supper…
carlosgvv
February 9th, 2012
4:11 pm
There should be no suprise here. These Catholic Bishops are merely demonstrating what we knew about them all along. Since they are not allowed to have sex, they are obsessed with the notion that other people are having sex and enjoying it and are determined to limit this as much as possible. This is all about being jealous and consumed with hatred towards those of us not under their celebacy law. It has nothing whatsoever to do with conscience.
md
February 9th, 2012
4:11 pm
“My wife is so cool she picked Vegas.”
My wife likes Vegas too……because it’s full of guys…….
She’s married, but she isn’t blind…….
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
4:12 pm
md – My wife likes the gambling. And strip joints. If I didn’t know better, I would think she played softball.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
4:14 pm
(ir)Rational — “JHM – We have an agreement, I get to go to Boston and she gets to pick some horrible place that I had/have no desire to visit. My wife is so cool she picked Vegas. I pretended to protest for a while, but gave it up when I realized she wasn’t buying it.”
I’ve been to Vegas once (with wife #1), and wife #2 worked at a Reno casino as a change girl for a couple of summers while she was in college. IMO, you can have a great time if you have enough self control to not gamble, or if you strictly budget your gambling.
Wife #1 and I strictly budgeted a hundred bucks apiece, and she made back a couple hundred (I lost all mine). Then we left.
Wife #2 says that she NEVER wants to go back to a casino, as she thinks she could get drawn in pretty quick. You’re not supposed to gamble at the casino where you work (which is why she didn’t get hooked while she was working there), but she did play a bit at other casinos and she just thinks she’d get real stupid with it real quick. Sounds fine to me; I’ve been to Vegas and feel no pressing need to go back.
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
4:15 pm
“Ok but have any of the GOP candidates proved they deserve a term instead of Obama?”
Adam, as for the Republican candidates, not yet but hopefully, one of them will. I thought Romney but he needs to get busy selling himself and quit thinking that he has the nomination sown up. He’s been running that kind of campaign since his victory in Florida and Nevada. Santorum I think has sent a shock into his campaign or should have. Now for Obama you know my opinion there.
Rockerbabe
February 9th, 2012
4:17 pm
The catholic church has a 2000+ year history of misogyny; the fact that some women are not catholic is not of concern to them. The fact that women use contraception 90% of the time during most of the childbearing years is not of concern to them.
The catholic hierarchy is composed of single, supposedly celibate men. Which means they know really very little about women, their needs or wants. . .truth be told, they don’t care.
I think the politicans [mostly men] should tell the catholic church that if it wants to compete in a secular world, then it has to abide by the laws of our land. Which means, the catholic church cannot willfully discriminate against women and their needs. Unequal treatment of women in the workplace is illegal and should be illegal for the catholic church.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
4:18 pm
md
“what exactly is there to stop them??”
You seem to be making an assumption that based on rhetoric, that they have a game plan to bomb Israel. Once again, I must discern from more than just the rhetoric and general talking points and look at the actual history of Iran and Persia………….. While there is much unrest in the ME has there has been for ion (will be for many more ions)…….. I do not see it has some “end game” that Iran is hell bent on destroying Israel and getting destroyed in the process.
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
4:19 pm
JHM – I have no real desire to go back to Vegas, but my wife thinks it is the greatest place on earth. But as long as she wants to go, I guess I’ll be going. I don’t really care, a vacation is a vacation to me, as long as I get good food and sleep.
Someone who can read
February 9th, 2012
4:21 pm
I don’t get liberals. Is it that you can’t comprehend what people write or that it’s much easier to invent what they say without reading it?
The Catholic bishops are suggesting that employers (all employers) should have the option of providing the coverage or not. What is so bad about that? It seems very reasonable that employers choose the benefits they want to provide. But then again, I am not a liberal and have a brain.
The bishops are not trying to force anyone to do anything. It is the Obama administration that wants to force every employer to provide the coverage.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
4:22 pm
del,
It is a better question than this issue and a more complicated one than Libya.
The President asked the Pentagon to draw up plans and I think some jets can take out those tanks but they have better air defense.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:22 pm
Paul – “It’ll be interesting to see how the Right frames the debate now.”
I’m just curious as to how Romney could spin it. If he debates Obama, what’s he going to say. ” You want to mandate contraception coverage” to which Obama can reply. ” You did it first”.
Interesting
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:23 pm
Someone who can read – ” It is the Obama administration and 28 other states, and Mitt Romney that wants to force every employer to provide the coverage.
There ya go, fixed it for you. You’re welcome!
md
February 9th, 2012
4:24 pm
“Ok but have any of the GOP candidates proved they deserve a term instead of Obama?”
Some of us felt Obama had an awful thin resume too…….
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:25 pm
Someone who can read
“The Catholic bishops are suggesting that employers (all employers) should have the option of providing the coverage or not. What is so bad about that”
So you’d be okay if your employer changed your health insurance to no longer cover vaccinations, cancer treatment or diabetes treatment?
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
4:25 pm
Someone – So what is wrong with providing the coverage exactly? Do you think it will offend your invisible deity if you have the option of having those services covered by your insurance? I mean, just because you’re covered doesn’t mean you’re being forced to use them. Or did I miss something? Are government agents going to go into Catholic schools and hospitals and start forcing all the Catholics to take birth control pills and have/perform abortions?
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:26 pm
md -”Some of us felt Obama had an awful thin resume too…….”
Sure he did, but how much experince do the current batch of contenders have as POTUS? Obama wasn’t running against an incumbent.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
4:26 pm
What is so bad about that? It seems very reasonable that employers choose the benefits they want to provide. But then again, I am not a liberal and have a brain.
Obviously, you don’t, because that is not reasonable at all. That’s like saying they should be allowed to put out whites only signs or have an unsafe workplace if they feel like it. Employers are bound by the law.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
4:27 pm
Homeward bound! Catch you all later!
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:30 pm
Paul – “So you’d be okay if your employer changed your health insurance to no longer cover vaccinations, cancer treatment or diabetes treatment?”
Of course he would Paul. Sounds like “Someone who can read” is a good little Drone.
carlosgvv
February 9th, 2012
4:30 pm
Someone who can read – 4:21
If you really believe that you should be saying “but then again I am not a liberal and have NO brain”.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:30 pm
Someone who can read
Hello?
You still there?
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
4:31 pm
Paul – Maybe he can’t read?
(ir)Rational
February 9th, 2012
4:31 pm
Heading home. Y’all have a good evening.
md
February 9th, 2012
4:32 pm
“You seem to be making an assumption that based on rhetoric, that they have a game plan to bomb Israel. Once again, I must discern from more than just the rhetoric and general talking points and look at the actual history of Iran and Persia………….. While there is much unrest in the ME has there has been for ion (will be for many more ions)…….. I do not see it has some “end game” that Iran is hell bent on destroying Israel and getting destroyed in the process.”
Well, you like to call it rhetoric, but one only needs look at the facts. You yourself admit they operate through their proxies, Hezbollah and Hamas, and if one looks at the Hamas charter, one will see that it calls for the destruction of Israel. And then look further at the fact that Hamas even went to war against their own when they ran Fatah out of Gaza because Fatah was on the verge of agreeing to peace, one may get a glimpse of what is actually happening with Iran.
They are the head of the snake, a snake operating off beliefs.
Let’s not forget that once upon a time, die hard muslims bowed toward the West and Israel……think that isn’t stuck in the craw too?
jewcowboy
February 9th, 2012
4:33 pm
Paul,
“So you’d be okay if your employer changed your health insurance to no longer cover vaccinations, cancer treatment or diabetes treatment?”
Only if they throw in “Wine Therapy”.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 9th, 2012
4:33 pm
Well, I don’t mean to get all snarky, but why don’t the health plans just pay to get men and women fixed? It worked for old Ace and I can’t hardly recommend it highly enough. I don’t get nasty calls from people with a new litter of pups and old Ace is now the sweetest dog in the world and don’t never get in a fight anymore. We could use more of that with humans.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:33 pm
(ir)Rational – “Maybe he can’t read?”
It’s that darn waiting time when you call into Boortz to get the answer to the question.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:33 pm
This is turning into a repeat of yesterday. What is it with some people that they can’t say “hmmm… hadn’t thought of that…” or “good point, gonna modify my position on that…”
Guess the Right has to think they’re always right, otherwise they’d have to compromise their views and ‘moderate’ their outlook.
Someone who can read
February 9th, 2012
4:33 pm
Paul,
I would have no problem if my employer wanted to change the benefits offered. If the benefits did not meet my needs I would find employment somewhere else.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
4:35 pm
assad said Americans can be easily manipulated.
He got that right.
carlosgvv
February 9th, 2012
4:35 pm
The Catholic child-sex scandal gave the impression this is a recent thing. Almost certainly, this kind of behavior has been going on for many centuries. For every Priest caught, there are probably 10 who will never be. So, we have a group of celebate men who rape children and demand they have the final word in contraception coverage. I’m beginning to think the Earth really is the insane asylum of the Universe.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:36 pm
Well Redneck, I came home one day and our new kitty had bandages on his paws. I asked my wife “what happened?!!?”
She said “I had him declawed and deballed. Let that be a warning to you.”
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
4:36 pm
The solution is to get the employer out of providing health care. Just pay the employee and let them buy what they want to. Problem solved.
Not So Casual Observer
February 9th, 2012
4:37 pm
#1 – The Constitution was worded to protect RELIGION from the government, not the other way around. In that context the intrusion is obvious.
#2 – The Obama administration got NOTHING from the banks. Trillions of dollars were transferred in the crash and the Obama administration wants to brag about $26 Billion? This is simply another bailout of the banks since the losers will be investors – not banks. Government was the cause of the problem (as usual) and is never the solution. Wall Street is one of Obama’s largest sources of campaign funds.
#3 – Nothing could be a more clear violation of the non-existent “separation of church and state” that Liberals chant at every opportunity. Why are you Liberals now favoring a church/state partnership?
#4 – Obama is a fraud. The Cubans did not know Castro was a Socialist until the entire economy was under government rule and home owners were forced to allow strangers to live in their homes. But then again, such an event would constitute Liberal Utopia in the United States.When one of you Libs comes to my home, as directed by the local socialist party leader, prepare to disappear quietly!
#5 – The Cuban population did not believe there could be a socialist take over there either.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
4:37 pm
MD
We will just have to agree to disagree………….
No biggie. Nice chat
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:38 pm
Someone who can read
“If the benefits did not meet my needs I would find employment somewhere else.”
So in this economy you’d quit one day and walk into another job shortly thereafter with a salary and benefits package that would exceed what you left?
Really?
There’s a couple million of your fellow citizens who’d like to know your secret.
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
4:38 pm
Yes, this is overreaching, but the administration already overreached by making the requirement.
See here: http://www.getreligion.org/2012/02/frame-game-birth-control-vs-religious-liberty-again/
and here: http://waynebradley.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/being-vigilant-about-religious-freedom/ .
And scarcely a complaint? How do you know?
Someone who can read
February 9th, 2012
4:39 pm
(ir)Rational – So what is wrong with providing the coverage exactly?
What difference does it make? If they employment conditions are not abusive then why can’t they provide the benefits they choose? You guys want to control everyone.
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
4:39 pm
getalife,
The president made a case that out involvement in Libya was about humanitarian concerns and the genocide being brought upon the Libyan people was unacceptable. He also indicated that our involvement would be brief in duration. I agreed with the mission but doubted the projected brevity of our involvement. It turned out to be much longer and more costly. You’re correct when you say that Syria is more complicated than Libya, however, the bloodshed and genocide is many times greater. Iran is the complication along with Russia and China albeit with the latter two considerably minor in comparison. Russia and China both like the thorn Iran and their activities place in our side. Having said all of that I still believe we could have and should be much stronger than we have been. At least to this point.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
4:40 pm
“I’m beginning to think the Earth really is the insane asylum of the Universe.”
Or hell is empty and they are here.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:40 pm
NSCO – “#5 – The Cuban population did not believe there could be a socialist take over there either.”
Tehy also didn’t have a Constitution that seperated the different branches of Government ensuring that no single branch ( or individual) could take over the entire country. And by the way, look at the map. Cuba is just a little bit smaller than the United States.
Now, go fold some more tin foil for your hat.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
4:40 pm
It seems very reasonable that employers choose the benefits they want to provide.
In this case, they’re denying access to approved drugs. Employers can decide what general coverage to provide, like co-pays or 80% of hospital stays or whatever. Those apply across the board according to medical standards. They’re free to set general coverage.
Whey you let them decide to pick and choose based on “moral” grounds you’re opening up a can of worms. Why don’t they exclude heart bypasses if someone is obese, because they’re a glutton? Can Baptist colleges exclude people who drink? I pointed out earlier if Scientologists are in charge, we’re all screwed.
BTW, I don’t know if you’re a man, but I’ve only heard the “what’s the big deal?” so far from the male half of the species. It’s quite easy to detach yourself when it’s not YOUR coverage, it’s more of an intellectual exercise. Women overwhelmingly don’t like the idea of paying out of pocket because some celibate man running a BUSINESS, not a church, wants to impose his church’s values through economics. And I daresay you don’t ever see this applied to men, like the above example of gluttony and heart disease. It’s not even an issue.
In other words, if you don’t get it…..well, that’s your failing, and a really underwhelming argument for setting public policy. Folks like you will be distracted by the next shiny object offered up by talk radio and it’ll become a non-issue.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:41 pm
RLJ
You may want to read Jay’s recent article about what current law actually provides for in this matter.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/02/07/the-overhyped-controversy-over-contraceptives-and-the-law/
Not So Casual Observer
February 9th, 2012
4:42 pm
carlos @ 4:35,
No more insane than allowing an administration with virtually no real world experience in business making rules to define the economy. Less than 7% of the members of the Obama administration have ever been employed outside government. If you remove the Goldman Sachs criminals there may not be a single member of the administration with private experience.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:43 pm
Aquagirl – “In other words, if you don’t get it”
It’s understanable, he also believes that if one is unhappy with their benefits, they just head on down the street to the next awesome job.
jconservative
February 9th, 2012
4:44 pm
Re the comment that it is the law in 28 states:
Even without a religious exemption, religious employers can already avoid the contraceptive mandates in 28 states by self-insuring their prescription drug coverage, dropping that coverage altogether, or opting for regulation under a federal law (ERISA) that pre-empts state law.The HHS mandate closes off all these avenues of relief.”
In short, the HHS mandate says “Christians go to hell.”
90% of Christian churches and religious organizations will either drop drug coverage for employees or drop medical insurance for their employees. Or the ministers will simply refuse to obey and go to jail.
I can’t wait!!!!!!!!!
Not So Casual Observer
February 9th, 2012
4:44 pm
The first employer to offer health insurance must really feel like an idiot right now. This discussion only proves Liberals can destroy the best of intentions.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:45 pm
Someone
Are you going to share with us the secret how you’d quit one day and shortly thereafter begin work with an employer whose pay and benefits are more to your liking? Because as I said, there are millions of Americans who haven’t been able to find much of anything who’d like to know.
Frankly, that response sounds like a typical blog throw-away line that’s divorced from reality.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
4:45 pm
Recon
“humanitarian concerns ”
Regardless of who is in office that seems to be the two most used words in recent years when it comes to military involvement. While I understand that the US can’t be everything to everybody and should not be; we are selective when it comes to “humanitarian concerns” around the world.
Not a knock on your post at all. It was well thought out. Just my opinion on “humanitarian concerns” when I read your post
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
4:46 pm
Paul, I did. My response is the same. Here’s a quote from one of the articles that I linked to.
“Of course, it’s easy to ask: Why do religious groups need a conscience clause when they have the First Amendment, when they have a history of church-state law that says the government does not have the power to get entangled in doctrinal issues of this kind? The state does not have the right to say that “religion” is when people sit in pews, but not when they feed the poor, teach children and heal the sick — in institutions that are explicitly and meaningfully connected to religious traditions, laws and doctrines.”
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:46 pm
jconservative – “In short, the HHS mandate says “Christians go to hell.”
90% of Christian churches and religious organizations will either drop drug coverage for employees or drop medical insurance for their employees. Or the ministers will simply refuse to obey and go to jail.
Could you please provide a link detailing the current minister prison population over the last 13 years that the provision has been in effect here in Georgia?
Thanks!
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:47 pm
Not so Casual
Wasn’t that “Less than 7% of the members of the Obama administration have ever been employed outside government.” line pretty well debunked as “fun with numbers’ right about the time the Administration came into office? I think quite a bit of time was spent on it here.
getalife
February 9th, 2012
4:47 pm
del,
Our victory in Libya was short with zero US casualties.
They called iamanutjob back for a meeting because they seized their assets in their central bank.
Last time they did that they had a revolution remember.
I think the jets will take out those tanks pretty soon if they keep shelling their people.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
4:47 pm
Oscar — “The solution is to get the employer out of providing health care. Just pay the employee and let them buy what they want to. Problem solved.”
This will never work and Republican lawmakers know it. Here’s why.
Employers use their buying power to negotiate prices far below what you could get. They pay a portion of your health insurance premium, but for the vast majority of people, if their employer dropped their health coverage and gave them the cost they had been paying in cash, the employee couldn’t possibly get the same coverage on their own — even if they added their own premiums to the additional cash the employer was giving them.
Result: if you cut employers out of the health care picture without providing some sort of similar benefit in some other way, middle- and lower-class workers get screwed.
Sure, go ahead, Republicans. Push for that. See what happens. You’ll ensure that Democrats get both Congress and the White House for a generation.
Kamchak
February 9th, 2012
4:48 pm
The first employer to offer health insurance must really feel like an idiot right now.
It looks like someone should do some research on when/how/why benefits packages were introduced.
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
4:49 pm
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.–William F. Buckley
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/w/william_f_buckley_jr.html#ixzz1lvKuoIg2
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:51 pm
Not So Casual Observer – “This discussion only proves Liberals can destroy the best of intentions.”
It also proves that you have no concept of how safe you really are from a socialist takeover if you belive that Castro overthrowing Cuba in the 50’s could be compared to anything going on in the U.S today.
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
4:51 pm
90% of Christian churches and religious organizations will either drop drug coverage for employees or drop medical insurance for their employees.
I can’t wait either, because throwing your employees under the bus to make a political point isn’t exactly going to endear churches to the masses.
Your kid needs asthma medicine? Sorry! We can’t let the whores win!
Yeah, I’d LOVE to see that.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
4:52 pm
RLJ
I made essentially the same point in an initial response in the earlier thread.
Given how quick it was made an issue in Congress, it does seem to me someone was spoiling for a fight. Jay’s article seems to indicate the Catholic hierarchy was looking for a launching point to ban contraceptive coverage altogether.
Gotta admire Santorum for getting the evangelical Christians to so completely drop their beliefs and adopt Catholic beliefs on birth control and abortion.
md
February 9th, 2012
4:53 pm
“I’m just curious as to how Romney could spin it. If he debates Obama, what’s he going to say. ” You want to mandate contraception coverage” to which Obama can reply. ” You did it first”. ”
For one that called others out for posting without all the facts, you may want to dig a bit deeper on the actual process MA and the Church worked through…..
“The Massachusetts regulations, the Church Amendment, and Directive 36 combine to create a number of potential loopholes and workarounds.”
Someone who can read
February 9th, 2012
4:56 pm
Paul – Are you going to share with us the secret how you’d quit one day
It is not exactly a secret. I have quit many jobs to take new ones with better benefits. I know many others who have as well.
The real secret is keeping a job when no other employer wants you.
md
February 9th, 2012
4:56 pm
“Sure he did, but how much experince do the current batch of contenders have as POTUS? Obama wasn’t running against an incumbent.”
As much as obama had 3 yrs ago………and he got elected.
So, what’s your point? That he has otjt? ok, so we train another one…..
Halftrack
February 9th, 2012
4:56 pm
Jay, You don’t go deep enough and think logically. This is a “mandate” ; not a law that allows you to either us or not use contraceptives on an Insurance plan. This is a plain and simple assault on our freedoms and that of the 1st Amendment. The two bladed sword is a protection of the State from the Church and the Church from the State. Become smart as a 5th Grader or be overwhelmed with other mandates from the State and then see where your freedom is.
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
4:58 pm
Paul, I am a evangelical and the issue is not contraception to me. The issue is one of the federal government telling any person of religious faith (and I don’t care if they are Catholic, Baptist, Jewish or Muslim) that they have to go against their conscience in order to comply with government mandates. The state does not have that right. And Jay is by no means an expert in why or how people of faith respond to this mandate. I think that he, most of the media and most liberals are clueless on those matters.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
4:59 pm
md -”So, what’s your point? That he has otjt? ok, so we train another one…..”
Sure we can. My point was that Obama would have had a much tougher race runing against a sitting POTUS. Since one didn’t exist, the playing field was pretty much level. In this race, you have 4 contenders that have no experience as POTUS trying to unseat the one candidate that does.
I don’t really have a dog in this fight. I have my own health plan, I’m pretty well off and retired, and I wasn’t planning on voting for Obama anyway.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
5:01 pm
“Oscar — “The solution is to get the employer out of providing health care. Just pay the employee and let them buy what they want to. Problem solved.””
So you’re willing to provide each single military person a pay increase of about $14,000 a year for medical care. And an equal amount for each family member? And do the same for the millions of retirees?
md
February 9th, 2012
5:02 pm
“They also didn’t have a Constitution that seperated the different branches of Government ensuring that no single branch ( or individual) could take over the entire country.”
Not saying we have that problem, but to name a few recently, Russia and Venezuela both had Constitutions in place prior to their current elected dictator status…….
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
February 9th, 2012
5:02 pm
Sure he did, but how much experince do the current batch of contenders have as POTUS? Obama wasn’t running against an incumbent
Well, some librul down at the warehouse put down some numbers that made me think a little bit:
Years of Experience as President: Obama, 3.5; Romney, 0
Number of Wars Directed as Commander in Chief: Obama 2, Romney 0
Number of Cabinets Appointed: Obama 1, Romney 0
But we’ll hold Obama’s experience against him as a Washington Insider.
Time to head for home. Have a good night everybody.
Kamchak
February 9th, 2012
5:03 pm
In this race, you have 4 contenders that have no experience as POTUS trying to unseat the one candidate that does.
Not to mention that the current front-runner lost to the guy that Obama beat in 2008.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
5:03 pm
RJL
“I think that he, most of the media and most liberals are clueless on those matters.”
So you clue us all in how all the different individuals of different beliefs and faiths are thinking about this mandate…..
Didn’t know all of you were such an homogeneous group that they elected you spokesmen for all of them on this issue……. so excuse me for not knowing……….. but do clue us all in
Doggone/GA
February 9th, 2012
5:03 pm
“The issue is one of the federal government telling any person of religious faith (and I don’t care if they are Catholic, Baptist, Jewish or Muslim) that they have to go against their conscience in order to comply with government”
But that is NOT the issue. The issue is an employer forcing their employees to follow the dictates of the EMPLOYERS religion.
Scooter
February 9th, 2012
5:03 pm
Everybody is picking on The Obama…
Paul
February 9th, 2012
5:04 pm
Someone
“It is not exactly a secret. I have quit many jobs to take new ones with better benefits. I know many others who have as well.”
Really? You’ve been job skipping and increasing your family’s economic benefit since late 2008?
Pardon my skepticism.
But hey, this is the Internet.
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
5:05 pm
Doggone/GA, If I work at a hospital or school that says Catholic on it or is name for a saint, I think I would know that they operated under religious values and doctrines. It would be a choice that I made going in.
md
February 9th, 2012
5:05 pm
“My point was that Obama would have had a much tougher race runing against a sitting POTUS. Since one didn’t exist, the playing field was pretty much level. In this race, you have 4 contenders that have no experience as POTUS trying to unseat the one candidate that does.”
I think you left out one very important variable…..Bush, and the rule by r’s for 8 years.
Take a look at historical data, and one will notice the trend is usually 4 or 8 and rarely 12 in regards to rule by one party or the other. Seems the middle can’t stomach either for long periods of time.
Paul
February 9th, 2012
5:06 pm
RLJ 4:58
Is not the key in Jay’s earlier thread that when a religion does not meet three tests when it is running a business that it is subject to rules that apply to businesses, not religions?
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
5:07 pm
“Gotta admire Santorum for getting the evangelical Christians to so completely drop their beliefs and adopt Catholic beliefs on birth control and abortion.”
Paul, Evangelical Christians have always opposed abortion or believe in its restrictions and procedure minimization.
RLJ
February 9th, 2012
5:08 pm
Let me pull out part of a quote that I mentioned above, “The state does not have the right to say that “religion” is when people sit in pews, but not when they feed the poor, teach children and heal the sick — in institutions that are explicitly and meaningfully connected to religious traditions, laws and doctrines.” These mandates violate the First Amendment in a clear and direct manner.
They BOTH suck
February 9th, 2012
5:10 pm
RLJ
What do you think about Scalia’s take on this issue and like issues?