Bishops’ complaint an all-out war on contraception
I think it’s important to understand just what the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops is demanding in its war against contraception coverage. Here’s USA Today on the matter:
The White House is “all talk, no action” on moving toward compromise, said Anthony Picarello, general counsel for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. “There has been a lot of talk in the last couple days about compromise, but it sounds to us like a way to turn down the heat, to placate people without doing anything in particular,” Picarello said. “We’re not going to do anything until this is fixed.”
That means removing the provision from the health care law altogether, he said, not simply changing it for Catholic employers and their insurers. He cited the problem that would create for “good Catholic business people who can’t in good conscience cooperate with this.”
“If I quit this job and opened a Taco Bell, I’d be covered by the mandate,” Picarello said.
In other words, the bishops are not merely demanding that church-affiliated organizations be exempted from the requirement that contraception be covered in health insurance. They are insisting that the contraception requirement be abolished altogether.
The proposed legislative fix endorsed by the bishops, HR 1179, makes that explicitly clear. It states that no insurer or employer can be required to provide coverage if paying for such coverage “is contrary to the religious beliefs or moral convictions of the sponsor, issuer, or other entity offering the plan; or (if) such coverage (in the case of individual coverage) is contrary to the religious beliefs or moral convictions of the purchaser or beneficiary of the coverage.”
Again, that is not a fix limited to churches or church-affliated organizations. It would prohibit the contraception requirement across the board, for every employer and insurer.
If you had any doubts about how political this all is, that ought to resolve them. Twenty-eight states, including conservative Georgia, have had laws on the books for years that require contraceptives be covered, with not a squeak of protest or complaint.
And yet now it becomes a threat to religious liberty?
– Jay Bookman
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1,108 comments Add your comment
Fred (I need a pill)
February 9th, 2012
1:19 pm
Ok Jay, you have a point. Personally I would rather not have to pay for Gramps Viagra than worry about paying for Wilma’s birth control pills…………
Kamchak
February 9th, 2012
1:20 pm
“It’s not me, it’s you.”
– Thomas Jefferson
Finn McCool
February 9th, 2012
1:21 pm
“Nobody puts Ricky Santorum in the corner!”
~ Ricky Santorum
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:21 pm
“Don’t tell me what to do with my body BUT let me tell you who you have to provide abortifants to…..”
no egg … no zygote …
that’s how The Pill rolls …
so all your talk of “abortifacients” are lies.
but thanks for playing
barking frog
February 9th, 2012
1:21 pm
Bruno, 1:18, could you also choose which employees to cover?
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
1:21 pm
Bruno — “Aas a free individual, I should have the right to offer whatever insurance coverage I thought was best for my emloyees. If the employees don’t like it, they can purchase their own policy.”
And what if the state doesn’t like it?
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:22 pm
Can’t we just get back to minors being able to have abortions without their parents consent? Let’s push that on everybody too. I have no rights to know what my own minor children are doing. Who do I think I am, their parent?
At school you can’t take an ibuprofen without it but there’s nothing political going on with the abortion……….
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
1:22 pm
During the Bush years, Guantanamo was the core symbol of right-wing radicalism and what was back then referred to as the “assault on American values and the shredding of our Constitution”:
Speaking of the war, Guantanamo, the Patriot Act… Whatever happened to code pink, the patriot act protesters, the anti-war protesters??? Where dey at? Seems like they all but disappeared on jan. 20,2009. Are they hiding under W’s bed? Where did they all go? Did they get lost on the way to their protests? Were they ever really anti war, anti Guantanamo, and anti-patriot act? Or just anti-Bush? Where dey at??? Ya’ll liberals need to file several thousand missing persons reports. Better git to work.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:23 pm
“I should have the right to offer whatever insurance coverage I thought was best for my emloyees”
gee, thanks DAD!
can we stay up late on Friday to watch scary movies??? can we? can we? can we, huh??
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
1:23 pm
The common thread among various denominations is the federal governments intrusion into religious doctrine and where that could lead further down the road. As for the Obamacare mandate itself, forcing religious institutions to provide abortion pills puts this issue way over the top for some non-Catholic denominations like Baptists and Methodists.
Normal
February 9th, 2012
1:24 pm
Send ‘em a massage, I did…
http://usccb.org/
under “contact us”
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:24 pm
USink,
If they don’t want to provide it because of their beliefs but you want to make them provide it because of your beliefs then I think we are still playing.
I’m not Catholic but I do find it humorous how many will force something on someone else without blinking an eye and then get all huffy when it’s turned back on them.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
1:24 pm
No one is being denied the right to purchase contraception on their own. The issue is employers being forced to pay for it.
OH THE HUMANITY
getalife
February 9th, 2012
1:24 pm
doomy is the only one talking about the economy.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
1:25 pm
Whatever: No one is being forced to actually USE contraception, just that coverage for it be included in all health insurance plans.
stands for decibels
February 9th, 2012
1:25 pm
No one is being denied the right to purchase contraception on their own.
I think Amanda Marcotte might’ve been thinking of buffoonery like Bruno’s when she wrote:
15% more of men think of contraception as a sex toy. You can just hear the gears grinding in this 15%: “Why should I have to pay into insurance so she gets her contraception covered? It’s not like I’m using it. Where’s my fair share? When are they going to start paying for my porn? Pout. Whine. Boo hoo.”
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
1:25 pm
The sheeple do loves they thomas jefferson quotes they do. Reminds me of my 8 year old niece telling knock knock jokes- Cept that she was funnier.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:26 pm
“If they don’t want to provide it because of their beliefs but you want to make them provide it because of your beliefs then I think we are still playing.”
dearheart, providing insurance /= forcing the pill down their throats … or yours
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
1:26 pm
Once a lib makes the first silly Thomas Jefferson quote the rest of the sheeple follow suit
We’re just trying to pass time while waiting for you cons to tell us why you’ve been entirely unconcerned about 28 states (including godly conservative Jawja) requiring this coverage, but Obama brings it up and your heads explode.
It’s not our fault hypocrites are boring conversationalists.
Finn McCool
February 9th, 2012
1:26 pm
Thulsa, code pink is still in the news on regular basis. Fox News hates those people.
Adam
February 9th, 2012
1:26 pm
Doom: Knock knock
“Who’s there?”
Doctor.
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:27 pm
Adam,
If the Catholics have to buy it (against their own beliefs) then I can see why they are upset. Who are you or I to tell them they have to purchase items that violate their beliefs?
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
1:28 pm
From below:
Thanks for the compliment, but I don’t think your fellow conservatives see me as one of they guys.
Brosephus–The Republican Big Tent is ready when you are.
On a serious note, I heard your complaint that you perceive the righties to be reaching out to racists. If that element is there within the Repubs, I oppose it, and think it’s a shame if that keeps you or any other good thinking person to at least look at the platform and see if it matches your own views. The solution to the racial “code-talkers” is enhanced presence by minorities within the party. That would solve that nonsense overnight. It’s a lot easier to talk bad about someone whn they’re not there. For all his faults, I admired Maynard Jackson for making a point to visit Carey’s Bar in Marietta in the 1980s after he heard they had racist songs on their jukebox. He and his crew took the place over for an evening, shaming the owners with their presence.
Brosephus
February 9th, 2012
1:28 pm
I further predict that this future epidemic of lame quotes on my behalf can be attributed to liberal sheeple – Thomas Jefferson
Nah bro, gotta give credit where credit is due. The entire series of quotes can be attributed to two “conservatives” here and everyone else only got in after the fact. It really is a conservative thing.
Stephenson Billings
January 18th, 2012
12:08 pm
“A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have.” – Thomas Jefferson
12:09 pm
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not – Thomas Jefferson
When the blog host attempted to correct the person in the error of their ways, a second poster jumped into the fray.
John Galt
January 18th, 2012
12:25 pm
JAY- Jefferson did say “The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”
That is well-cited so you ignored that one.
Which was followed up with this now classic reply…
John Galt
January 18th, 2012
12:43 pm
I have sources saying Jefferson DID say that.
But even if he didn’t, it is obviously true.
Therefore, we have John Galt to thank for the Bookman Jefferson Quote Game™ and not some liberal as you think. Without the entertaining plethora of pseudo-conservatives trotting through here, there would be little to no entertainment. However, they do tend to drag down the image of the more thoughtful and articulate conservatives IMHO.
Fred (I need a pill)
February 9th, 2012
1:28 pm
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
1:18 pm
You don’t believe in contraception? then feel free to not use it. but you do not have the right to dictate that belief to your employees.
And if that was what was happening, then I’d be on your side, USinUK. No one is being denied the right to purchase contraception on their own. The issue is employers being forced to pay for it. Although this is being framed as a religious issue since the Catholic Church is involved, the larger point has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with free commerce. Aas a free individual, I should have the right to offer whatever insurance coverage I thought was best for my emloyees. If the employees don’t like it, they can purchase their own policy.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That sounds all well and good on the radio and on bumper stickers Bruno but what about the reality of the situation? Have you priced “personal” insurance? It IS unaffordable to the average American. I know Rush can afford it with his 100+ million dollar signing bonus, but others can’t. You are much to intelligent to say something like that or argue that insurance has been geared towards individuals in OUR working lifetime.
Yeah, I’m all FOR individual policies. But that ain’t happening. I’m for Doing away with federal interference with our schools but that’s a pipe dream to. We have to deal with the REALITIES of situations, and the reality of THIS situation is the Catholic Church trying to hold people’s health as hostage to further their whacked out crazy agenda.
You know this and be honest, had this come up under the Bush admin you would be arguing the other way (the RIGHT way lol).
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:28 pm
USink,
Forcing the Catholics to buy it is against their beliefs no matter who takes it or doesn’t take it. I still don’t see why you think you have the right to force them to do so.
Granny Godzilla
February 9th, 2012
1:28 pm
The sheeple do loves they thomas jefferson quotes they do. Reminds me of my 8 year old niece telling knock knock jokes- Cept that she was funnier.
- Thomas Jefferson
Normal
February 9th, 2012
1:28 pm
Recon,
It is not federal intrusion that makes, in this case, the Catholic Church to think that they have the right to mandate what all of us should or should not do. They are better off tending to their own flock and get out of the rest of our lives. Why do you want the government not to tell you what to do, but are willing to let some Priest tell you what to do?
Misty Fyed
February 9th, 2012
1:28 pm
The bishops have it all wrong…. We should be pushing for mandatory birth control for all liberals…After a generation, there won’t be a need for compromise.
Jack
February 9th, 2012
1:28 pm
Free contraception devices for everyone. I’ll pay my share of the cost if a “check-off box” appears on the 1040 like the one for the Presidential Election Campaign
Kentucky Jacket
February 9th, 2012
1:29 pm
Jay, Thanks for the clarification.
I understand but fail to grasp (maybe a failure on my part) that there is a big difference though. The proposal is that contraceptives are forced into either private health insurance companies, or into the publically funded government coverage. Either way, many are being forced to pay for someting that they feel is morally wrong.
And I understand the opposing arguement, that many feel war is morally wrong, so should they have to pay taxes for it?
I don’t know the answer, but this is the form of big government that I fear, because the more that the government provides, the more control is exercised on the people. When I am responsible for myself, and eat nothing but fried red meat, I reap the consequesnces. But the more that the government is responsible for me (health care, etc), then the more my fellow citizens are, and thus they have much more control over my actions because at that point it DOES affect them.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:29 pm
cast in point … I had US insurance for years … never once bought Viagra (despite it being covered)
see how that works?
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
1:29 pm
Whatever — “If the Catholics have to buy it (against their own beliefs) then I can see why they are upset. Who are you or I to tell them they have to purchase items that violate their beliefs?”
Adam’s just a guy. However, Antonin Scalia is a Supreme Court justice, and he says tuff darts.
http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/thank-scalia-for-your-birth-control-seriously
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
1:29 pm
getalife,
I don’t think Jay’s topic is the economy. It would be nice if we could discuss more the CBOs projections for 2012 economic growth and unemployment numbers. But if the sheeple are smart they’ll stick to social issues and avoid talk of the economy- and in particular Obama’s dismal economy over the entirety of his failed presidency.
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:29 pm
Fred,
Thank you for deciding who has ‘whacked out crazy agendas’. Please come see me and tell me how I should live, too. I’m already excited to know that you have it all figured out and will fix everyone’s agenda so they can be just like you.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:30 pm
“We should be pushing for mandatory birth control for all liberals…After a generation, there won’t be a need for compromise.”
some of the most liberal people I know were raised by GOPpers …
be careful what you wish for, m’dear …
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
1:30 pm
Despite all their whines and protests, the fact is that these matters have been effectively litigated and the Catholic Church lost:
New York’s Catholic Charities of Albany, et al v. Gregory V. Serio saw ten Catholic and Baptist organizations (including one Baptist church) challenging the state’s Women’s Health and Wellness Act, which mandated insurance coverage for contraceptives in addition to other women’s health services. According to the suit filed in 2002, the plaintiffs argued that the restrictive requirement infringed on their religious freedoms as enshrined by both the US Constitution and New York Constitution. In 2003, however, the New York Supreme Court dismissed the complaint, granting summary judgment in the defendant’s favor and upholding the act as constitutional. The groups then appealed, and in early 2006, a divided appellate division affirmed the original decision. Appealing once more, the New York Court of Appeals affirmed the decision once again later that year, preserving WHWA as constitutional as applied to the plaintiffs. The US Supreme Court decided not to consider the challenge in 2007.
deegee
February 9th, 2012
1:30 pm
If Catholic bishops could marry and raise a family they would be handing out birth control pills like they were communion wafers.
Misty Fyed
February 9th, 2012
1:31 pm
Fred. you do need a pill. You have no right to force your belief on your employer.
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:31 pm
Joe,
Is the Court says it’s ok then it is the law of the land I suppose but that still doesn’t mean I have to approve of it.
I suppose you like everything the Court decides?
Normal
February 9th, 2012
1:32 pm
Jack
February 9th, 2012
1:28 pm
Jack,
Then that would be the Presidential Erection Campaign…
stands for decibels
February 9th, 2012
1:32 pm
“How are the US Conference of Catholic Bishops like a pygmy tribe? Well, one is a cunning bunch of runts…”
–Thomas Jefferson
getalife
February 9th, 2012
1:32 pm
doomy,
This issue will be settled with a compromise.
You got nothing to run on.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
1:32 pm
Thank you granny. I forgot to sign Mr. Jefferson’s name to that post. So where are we at on the over under of how many times today the sheeple will wear out Jefferson’s name? I was thinking 50 would be a nice over/under number.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
1:33 pm
***Update****
Update to JAy’s link to Mississippi legislature’s bill to rename the Gulf of Mexico. Google just stepped in with a better off and obtained the naming rights! “The Gulf of Google”
or, more specifically “Teh Gulf of Google”
Normal
February 9th, 2012
1:33 pm
Anyway, who needs Viagra when you have spray starch and tongue depressors for splints?
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
1:33 pm
It is unreal to me that there are still people fighting against the use of contraception. I thought that debate was over and settle long ago. Polls show Americans are vastly in favor of contraception. Should not even be an issue. People like Santorum that are against it should be voted out of voice. Oh, he was. Well, he should not be voted back in.
Mick
February 9th, 2012
1:34 pm
usinuk
It may be cold in merry old england, but you are smokin hot today!!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
1:34 pm
Joe, you may find this discuss from September 30, 2011 helpful: Religious Exemptions and Contraceptive Coverage: How Far Can Denial Go and Still Be Constitutional?
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:34 pm
Mick – it’s the oatmeal chocolate chip cookies I made …
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
1:35 pm
The last poll I saw on this issue had those in favor of the mandate at around 38% and those opposed at around 50%. Until such time as the administration unveils a specific compromise offer, I don’t think attempting to change the argument by painting the Catholic Bishops as making unreasonable demands will get much traction among voters who’re opposed.
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:35 pm
Oscar,
Americans can be in favor of whatever they want but that still doesn’t mean we have the right to force Catholics to purchase something they are not for.
This is what I mean. You’ll force your beliefs on whoever you think is wrong but ‘please don’t tell me what to do with my body!’ when the shoes on the other foot.
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
1:35 pm
Looks like today the sheeple are on they thomas jefferson quotes like flies on sheet. Better raise the over/under number- Las Vegas bookie
Mick
February 9th, 2012
1:35 pm
Contraception today, contraception tomorrow, contraception forever!!
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
1:35 pm
That’s odd they quote him because Thomas Jefferson was a liberal.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
1:36 pm
Whatever — “Is the Court says it’s ok then it is the law of the land I suppose but that still doesn’t mean I have to approve of it.”
Of course. We’re all free to disagree with SCOTUS on individuals decisions or on points of law. However, at the end of the day, we’re obliged to comport ourselves in accordance with its decisions, like them or not.
“I suppose you like everything the Court decides?”
Not at all, but just like you, I have to abide by those decisions.
Brosephus
February 9th, 2012
1:36 pm
On a serious note, I heard your complaint that you perceive the righties to be reaching out to racists.
It’s not that all are doing it. The fact that a small group actively engage in that is enough to give me pause. Along the same lines, when you have people who pay lip servicd to “my” community but forget to do anything of substance after getting elected, that gives me reason to not support them either. I see things I agree with in both party platforms. I also see things I disagree with. I’m at the point now where I’m satisfied at being an individual free from having to conform to either party’s ideology and have to compromise who I am in the process.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:37 pm
poooooooooooooooooor Recon …
When she asked Catholics to rate their feelings about the policy of mandating inclusion of birth control in all insurance plans on a scale of one to ten – ten being most supportive – Lake found that 40 percent of Catholics an 8,9 or 10. Overall, 51 percent rated it in the 6-10 range, with Catholics giving the policy an average rating of somewhere around six. That wasn’t a slam dunk – but it reflected the general Catholic split on Obama in general.
http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/02/catholics-backed-birth-control-mandate-poll-showed-114020.html
so, your stats??? not so much …
Aquagirl
February 9th, 2012
1:37 pm
Polls show Americans are vastly in favor of contraception.
Reality never factors into GOP thought. Besides, did all those so-called Americans polled show their birth certificates?!?
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:38 pm
Joe,
I do abide but if a law violated a religious belief of mine then I would not follow it. I understand there are consequences and I would have to abide by those as well.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:39 pm
more stat-y fun …
In fact, Catholics are more likely than Americans in general (52 to 49 percent) to say that religiously affiliated employers should have to provide contraception coverage, according to the PRRI survey.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/catholics-support-white-house-contraception-mandate/2012/02/07/gIQAXXu1wQ_story.html
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
1:40 pm
KUTGF — thanks very much for that. That writer did an excellent job on that piece, IMO.
I think I shall bookmark her profile and read more of her work this weekend.
Josey Whales
February 9th, 2012
1:40 pm
Women on birth control, good times
Women not on birth control, I’m working late
- Thomas Jefferson
stands for decibels
February 9th, 2012
1:41 pm
Shhh, UnU. They hate it when you point out that the vast majority of Americans support reproductive rights that utterly belies the crappy legislative support provided by our (allegedly) representative democracy…
http://pollingreport.com/abortion2.htm
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
1:41 pm
JohnnyReb – “Obama started this mess”
Yes, Obama and the other 28 states that already have this provision. As well as Mitt Romney when he created Romneycare which this is based on. But yeah, it’s ALL Obama.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:41 pm
“I do abide but if a law violated a religious belief of mine then I would not follow it. I understand there are consequences and I would have to abide by those as well.”
WHAT AN EFFING LOAD OF BOLLOCKS
the fact of the matter is that this has NOTHING whatsoever to do with most people’s religious beliefs.
I’d stake every penny in my wallet on the fact that the majority of people who are agin’ it are agin’ it because it came from THIS White House.
(evidence? they don’t seem to care that there is a state mandate in GA that does the exact same thing)
Normal
February 9th, 2012
1:42 pm
Off topic, but I’m beginning to like Wisconsin…
————————————————————————————————–
The National Campaign to End Corporate Personhood and Demand Democracy!
FOR RELEASE: February 9, 2012
WI STATE LEGISLATORS INTRODUCE MOVE TO AMEND RESOLUTION
Resolution Puts Congress on Notice that It Has One Year to Send Amendment to States for Ratification
MADISON – Two legislators began the process of overturning the United States Supreme Court decision in the Citizens United case shortly after the two-year anniversary of the decision that created corporate personhood for the purpose of political speech.
State Representative Mark Pocan (D-Madison) and State Representative Chris Taylor (D-Madison) today introduced a resolution that calls for an amendment the United States Constitution to overturn the court ruling. If Congress fails to act, the resolution further calls for a National Constitutional Convention under Article V of the United States Constitution.
“Corporations aren’t people and they shouldn’t be given the constitutional right to buy elections,” said Pocan. “This is the people’s government, not the corporation’s government. Corporations shouldn’t have the right to usurp individual rights to free speech.”
Additionally, the legislators argued the court ruling should be overturned because corporations are not mentioned in the US Constitution and the people have never bestowed constitutional rights upon corporations.
“Corporations don’t enjoy other individual rights such as the right to bear arms or the right to vote, so they shouldn’t also enjoy the right to free speech,” said Taylor. “I am proud to join this national effort right here in Wisconsin.”
The resolution is part of a national movement associated with Move to Amend. The organization has worked with several municipalities to pass advisory referenda and is now taking the fight to state legislatures. Voters in Madison and Dane County have each passed advisory referenda supporting the overturn of the Citizens United decision with 84 percent and 78 percent respectively.
“Citizens across the country are putting Congress and the Supreme Court on notice that an amendment is coming. Legislatures can either join the Movement to Amend or get out of the way,” stated Kaitlin Sopoci-Belknap of Move to Amend. “Americans of all political persuasions are on board with an amendment to put We the People in charge of our government, not corporations. It is great to have two champions of the people like Pocan and Taylor step up to join the cause.”
Move to Amend has a goal to get 50 towns and cities to qualify their resolution on the ballot this November. Residents in West Alis, WI and Corvallis, OR have already qualified. Signature drives have begun in several Illinois towns, Mendocino County, CA and Salt Lake City, UT.
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:42 pm
Stands,
Why do I have to hate it that other people may disagree with me? Why can’t I stand for what I want and you stand for what you want?
Do you hate it when the majority disagrees with you?
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:42 pm
dB – what can I say?? I’m a fact-based person …
it’s how I roll
Recon 2533 1811
February 9th, 2012
1:43 pm
“Why do you want the government not to tell you what to do, but are willing to let some Priest tell you what to do?”
Normal, that’s not the point. The Bishops aren’t advocating a ban on contraception. That’s left up to the choice of individuals regardless of their religious persuasion. The point is the federal governments unconstitutional interference in forcing the church to go against its doctrine. BTW…I’m not Roman Catholic.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 9th, 2012
1:43 pm
Whatever — “I do abide but if a law violated a religious belief of mine then I would not follow it. I understand there are consequences and I would have to abide by those as well.”
I recognize and respect that, but exactly how is a religious belief being violated here? Nothing in the law compels or requires anyone to actually *use* any form of contraception whatsoever. It merely mandates that non-church employers include a certain array of women’s health services — including various forms of contraception — in their employee health insurance plans.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:43 pm
“Why can’t I stand for what I want and you stand for what you want?”
because what you stand for is denying people their rights to a legally available drug.
that’s why.
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
1:43 pm
Have you priced “personal” insurance? It IS unaffordable to the average American.
Fred–I have priced personal insurance, which is why I continue to choose to self-insure. I’ve gotten on my soapbox enough to explain why insurance is sky-high, though the Free Lunch Crowd here doesn’t want to hear it. As long as they think someone else is paying for it, why worry about all the additional mandates put into insurance policies by the Feds. As long as it agrees with the political agenda, let’s keep our heads in the sand about the inevitable increase in costs.
can we stay up late on Friday to watch scary movies??? can we? can we? can we, huh??
Sorry, USinUK–It’s my side who’s arguing for freedom of choice, freedom from the Nanny State. It’s you and your political brethren who seem to know whats best for me, not the other way around.
TBone
February 9th, 2012
1:44 pm
As a recovering Catholic, I parted ways with them some time ago. However, I have always supported their respect for life. My sister was to be an abortion but has made her way through life as a beautiful child of God now for over 50 years. We as a society have cheapened life to the point of no return. Just look at the fate of our european friends with policy such as this.
Don't Forget
February 9th, 2012
1:44 pm
So, it seems that conservatives problem with planned parenthood ISN’T just about abortion as they have claimed all these years. Another lie exposed.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
1:45 pm
Recon -” forcing religious institutions to provide abortion pills puts this issue way over the top for some non-Catholic denominations like Baptists and Methodists”
Then you must really be pissed at Georgia, because it’s been in effect for 13 years.
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:45 pm
Usink,
It is not denying them anything. They can buy it all they want. I am advocating letting Catholics not provide what they don’t want to provide.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:45 pm
“The point is the federal governments unconstitutional interference in forcing the church to go against its doctrine.”
NO, it isn’t.
it’s requiring BUSINESSES that may be owned/operated by the Church to provide the same healthcare that other employees are required to cover.
Church employees are not affected by this legislation.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
1:45 pm
the federal governments unconstitutional interference
umm, the “unconstitionality” has yet to be decided, my friend.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:45 pm
“It is not denying them anything. They can buy it all they want. ”
it absolutely is – it’s denying them the coverage to a medication they are legally entitled to.
AmVet - Just say no to Republicans who obsess over you
February 9th, 2012
1:46 pm
What do you burn apart from witches? More witches! ~Thomas Jefferson
and
The church says that the earth is flat, but I know that it is round. For I have seen the shadow of the earth on the moon and I have more faith in the shadow than in the church. ~Ferdinand Magellan
You and me, brother.
500 years on and still these nuts are still trying to screw with people’s lives…
Normal
February 9th, 2012
1:46 pm
The point is the federal governments unconstitutional interference in forcing the church to go against its doctrine
That’s a load of bollocks. President Obama said he was willing to exclude businesses owned by Catholics if they disapproved, but the Bishops said no. The Catholic Church is trying to impose its beliefs onto everybody. That’s not good.
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:46 pm
Usink,
How are they being denied the drug? Don’t confuse coverage with the drug.
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
1:48 pm
because what you stand for is denying people their rights to a legally available drug.
You know, USinUk, we might get farther in our discussion here if you would frame the argument honestly. Not covering a drug through insurance is vastly different from denying someone the right to purchase it on their own. Is it so far out of your sense of what is normal for people to assume even a modicum of responsibility for themselves??
Guy Incognito
February 9th, 2012
1:48 pm
Doomy,
Gimme a C-note on the Over
Oh, “over.” That’s today’s racist Code Word. Remember conservative operatives.
Today when you say “over” it means (insert whatever your imaginations dreams up here)
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
1:48 pm
As a taxpayer, I am forced to pay for a lot of programs I don’t want or like. I pay my taxes and follow the law, while I am trying to get it changed.
Finn McCool (Class Warfare = Stopping Rich People from TAKING MORE of OUR MONEY)
February 9th, 2012
1:48 pm
Those of you who ant to let businesses decide what they will include and won’t include in their employees health care plan?
Get real. That sounds rosy until it’s the company YOU work for that does this. then you read the fine print and realize the plan consists of one thing – “Walk it off.”
Pregnant? Walk it off.
Got AIDS? Walk it off
Teeth hurt? You can guess what goes here…
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:48 pm
“Sorry, USinUK–It’s my side who’s arguing for freedom of choice, freedom from the Nanny State. It’s you and your political brethren who seem to know whats best for me, not the other way around.”
you were the one who was saying that you wanted to pick what was best for your employees.
the government is saying that it’s not right to deny coverage of birth control – nor is it right to deny employees coverage of a legal medication due to your religious beliefs.
equal access baby – not just a good idea, it’s the law!!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 9th, 2012
1:48 pm
Contraceptive use is normal. It is used by 98 percent of sexually-active women in the United States at some point in their lives, including 98 percent of Catholic women; indeed many women rely on it for most of their reproductive lives. It is a public health issue, it is a medical issue, it is an individual health issue. Contraception is about maternal, infant and child health; it is about desired family size, family formation, and the most basic and profound choices individuals can make–whether, when and with whom to bear and raise a child. It is also about medically-indicated conditions which women face for which birth control is prescribed. It is a foundational issue for the social and economic participation of women. It is an individual human rights issue. And every domestic and international medical body with any legitimacy recognizes it as such. It is not about the religious freedom of religious
corporationsinstitutions a la Citizens United, but about the health and religious freedoms of individuals, the vast majority of whom clearly disagree with the teachings of the Catholic Church…The USCCB believes that everything from masturbation and the “spilling of seed,” to the use of contraception that prevents implantation of a fertilized egg is a sin and that contraceptives are abortifacients. It not only wants its own theologically-driven definition of when pregnancy begins, it wants that definition to override the actual medical definition for every woman in the United States….My religion may dictate that the earth is flat or the moon made of cheese, but I would be wrong in the eyes of geographers, astronomers, astronauts, and the vast majority of people; moreover, my request that the space shuttles and rockets be crafted like giant fondue pots to accommodate my belief would rightly be viewed as insane. …
The fight is about universities, hospitals and social service institutions which serve many people, employ many people, do not have as their primary purpose the inculcation of religious values, and which, by the way, collectively receive billions of dollars in tax payer funds, and in tax exemptions. Moreover, an increasing number of Catholic hospitals are ending their governing board affiliations with the Catholic Church but partnering in large systems with both Catholic and non-Catholic hospitals. http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2012/02/08/white-houses-dangerous-dance-with-contraceptive-mandate
Thulsa Doom
February 9th, 2012
1:49 pm
Brocephus,
Thanks for the update on where and when the Thomas Jefferson quotes came from. I was probably working that day.
Kinda sad though. I always knew the sheeple were anti-intellectual and especially anti-american but I wouldn’t have thought they would stoop to the level of mocking one of the great founders of this nation. Then again why should I be surprised?
Perhaps they would be more comfortable with Mao quotes since they would be more befitting the liberal mindset. Lemme get the libs started with a quote from one a their own.
“War is a continuation of politics, and there are at least two types: just (progressive) and unjust wars, which only serve bourgeois interests. While no one likes war, we must remain ready to wage just wars against imperialist agitations.”
Run with it libs. Run with it!
barking frog
February 9th, 2012
1:50 pm
This issue is about the government telling a business what it
must cover in employee insurance. Nothing more. If the
government can tell a business what to cover in insurance
then it can tell the business to buy insurance and individuals
too. like in individual mandate in ACA.
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
1:50 pm
it’s denying them the coverage to a medication they are legally entitled to.
And finally the “E” word rears its ugly head.
Wish I had more time to jaw, but back to work.
Oscar
February 9th, 2012
1:50 pm
The point is the federal governments unconstitutional interference in forcing the church to go against its doctrine
______
Like when the feds forced Morams to quit practicing poligomy and force the muslims to forego honor killings. Not to mention the snake handlers and people who want to kill and beat gays.
Obama is over
February 9th, 2012
1:50 pm
For all the folks who signed off on Pelosi’s notion that “you should just pass the Bill and learn what’s in it later,” this is the kind of detail that is going to continue to come to the surface over the next year in the 2200 page Obamacare legislation. Regardless of how you feel about contraception, pro-choice, pro-life, the Catholic Church, etc, the point here is that this legislation is a blatant intrusion into individual personal privacy by Big Government. As you point out, most insurance companies already cover contraception and maintain a balance with religious institutions by not forcing them to provide services that they may find offensive. The fact that Obama signed off on legislation trying to regulate church affiliated institutions with rules that are obviously fundamentally offensive to them is very short sighted and frankly, stupid. It should be no shock to anyone in the U.S., particularly a practicing Catholic like Joe Biden, that forcing these rules is going to create a very vocal response. I suppose that since Obama considers himself to be the 4th greatest President in history, then he is in a more powerful position than the Pope to guide his people.
Don't Forget
February 9th, 2012
1:50 pm
Government nanny bad. Church or company nanny good.
Butch Cassidy
February 9th, 2012
1:51 pm
Recon – “The point is the federal governments unconstitutional interference in forcing the church to go against its doctrine.”
I guess your okay with the state doing it as long as it isn’t suggested by Obama.
Whatever
February 9th, 2012
1:51 pm
Oscar,
Mormons volunteered to quit polygamy to become a state (may say something about their faith that they were).
Beating gays violates their rights as does ‘honor killings’.
Not providing coverage of contraceptions does not violate their rights. They can still buy all they want.
Bruno
February 9th, 2012
1:52 pm
you were the one who was saying that you wanted to pick what was best for your employees
Insurance is a benefit, not a right. If you would start from a more honest point of view, then we could discuss the issue. I know how desperately you WISHED it was a right, but it’s not. Ditto for marriage.
USinUK
February 9th, 2012
1:53 pm
“Not covering a drug through insurance is vastly different from denying someone the right to purchase it on their own”
there is no reason for insurance companies to NOT cover birth control – it’s been tested, it’s been approved and it’s been widely available for 50 years.
and, no, saying that “people can buy it out of their own pocket” doesn’t cut it – at a cost of $20+ / month, all you’re doing is discriminating against women based on … what? … what YOU think / what YOU believe.
that’s not what America stands for –
no one is forcing you to buy and use contraception – just to purchase an insurance policy that is fair for all your employees, regardless of their religious convictions.
Terrence
February 9th, 2012
1:53 pm
A woman’s choice trumps another individual’s conscientious objection?
All is fair in love and war? Love maybe, war not.
Let us know when Unitarians, Mennonites, Jehovah’s Witnesses & Seventh-day Adventists are forced to engage in combat during wartime.