What does Romney’s tough talk on Afghanistan mean?
In a recent debate in Florida, Mitt Romney was asked how he plans to end the lengthy war in Afghanistan, given that he has rejected the idea of trying to negotiate with the Taliban.
“By beating them,” he answered.
It was a strong, manly answer, short and to the point. And yes, beating them sounds like quite an appealing option.
On the other hand, we’ve been at it for more than a decade now, through a good part of three presidential terms, and have lost more than 1,800 American lives in the process. And we don’t seem to be much closer to “beating them” than we were when we began. While we’ve succeeded in weakening the movement, Taliban leadership has retreated to havens in Pakistan, where we continue to strike at them when possible via drones and missiles. Short of an invasion of Pakistan, “beating them” seems a very tall order. If Romney has specific ideas on how that might be accomplished, I have not seen them.
In fact, two of Romney’s own foreign-policy advisers, Mitchell Reiss and James Shinn, have publicly endorsed negotiations. As Shinn writes with co-author James Dobbins in “Afghan Peace Talks: A Primer”, the bottom-line goal of U.S. policy must be to prevent a return of al Qaeda to Afghanistan. He and Dobbins write:
“The United States can prevent this indefinitely as long as it is willing to commit significant military and economic resources to a counterinsurgency effort. It cannot eliminate the threat, however, as long as the Afghan insurgents enjoy sanctuary in and support from Pakistan. The United States could also achieve its objective if the Taliban could be persuaded to cut ties with al Qaeda and end its insurgency in exchange for some role in Afghan governance short of total control.
Peace negotiations would obviously be desirable if they could succeed in achieving this objective, but they are also worth pursuing even if they fail, as the risks associated with entering such a process may be greater for the insurgents than for the Afghan government and its allies.”
There’s a lot of hard truth packed in those two paragraphs. As Shinn and Dobbins write, we can keep the Taliban at bay as long as the United States “is willing to commit significant military and economic resources to a counterinsurgency effort.” But we aren’t willing to do so forever, and we know it. Public opinion in this country has turned sharply against an open-ended continuation of the war, and the Afghanis are growing tired of our presence as well.
In fact, Afghan President Hamid Karzai has from time to time denounced NATO forces as occupiers, claiming at one point that “It is just for their national interest that they put our lives under their feet and dishonor the people.”
In light of that reality, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta this week announced plans to end active U.S. involvement in combat in Afghanistan by the end of 2013. U.S. forces after that point would serve to train and assist Afghan government forces, including providing air cover, air transport and logistics support. But the brunt of the fighting would be done by the Afghans themselves.
Yesterday, Romney cast scorn on that approach, describing Panetta as “misguided and naive.”
“He announced that so the Taliban hears it, the Pakistanis hear it, the Afghan leaders hear it,” Romney said. “Why in the world do you go to the people that you’re fighting with and tell them the day you’re pulling out your troops? It makes absolutely no sense. [Obama’s] naivete is putting in jeopardy the mission of the United States of America and our commitments to freedom. He is wrong. We need new leadership in Washington.”
With those seemingly passionate comments, Romney repeats a refrain against announcing timelines that became familiar during the Iraq years. But again, it’s a curious stance. Because you see, Romney himself has publicly endorsed a deadline of 2014 for the withdrawal of almost all NATO military forces, including Americans, from Afghanistan. To borrow his language, Romney announced that support “so the Taliban hears it, the Pakistanis hear it, the Afghan leaders hear it.”
So I’m not sure exactly what his argument is, other than to make meaningless noise on the campaign trail and try to pump himself up as a strong-willed military leader.
If we are going to withdraw almost completely by 2014, leaving behind perhaps a group of advisers, trainers and intelligence specialists, it seems reasonable and rational that you would give the Afghan security forces a year to find their footing before handing them full responsibility.
But hey, if Romney has a plan for how to “beat the Taliban” and yet be out of Afghanistan by 2014, and to do so without giving Afghan security forces a transition period in which they take the lead role with strong U.S. backing, the American people would like to hear it.
Otherwise, his rhetoric comes across as macho blather, and I believe that rather recent experience has soured the American people on that for a while.
– Jay Bookman
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656 comments Add your comment
Mick
February 2nd, 2012
10:02 am
yaker
That’s ridiculous, afghani people couldn’t find the US on a map! For all practical purposes they still have a 16th century economy and you are afraid of them??? It’s insanity, a madhouse of ignorance…
Midori
February 2nd, 2012
10:04 am
You guys need to check this out. Disgusting and heartbreaking:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/
Joe Hussein Mama
February 2nd, 2012
10:04 am
JKL2 — “Bush. He ordered the one for Hussein too.”
Actually, there are some indications that someone highly placed in the Bush Administration *called off* an attack on OBL when we had him localized in the Tora Bora region of Afghanistan, so I don’t credit that Bush gave any specific order to kill OBL.
And he didn’t give any order to kill Saddam Hussein; the ROE specified live capture if possible, and then turning him over to civilian Iraqi authorities (once the new government had been established).
Adam
February 2nd, 2012
10:04 am
Ok… Lets let Obama and all the crats redistribute their own wealth and see if they can fix the economy since they are all experts.
People like Warren Buffett and others have already put up their dollars. So what say you NOW?
Robert Lee
February 2nd, 2012
10:05 am
JLK2, yes W did order a mission to kill OBL, but he also decided it was not worth it anymore and called it off. Obama reinstitiuted that mission and was able to complete it.
Joe Hussein Mama
February 2nd, 2012
10:07 am
R. Lee — “I’m not sure which part of my statement you felt offended by”
I didn’t. I apologize if I gave you that impression. It appears we feel much the same way about our fallen brothers- and sisters-in-arms.
Lord Help Us
February 2nd, 2012
10:07 am
As I recall, GWB did not consider OBL important.
Truth
February 2nd, 2012
10:07 am
Granny, I am in no way “pro war” but I do understand the need to take care of business. I would love for all the troops to be home. There is a fine line that needs to be walked and it is easy to fall to either side. The world we live in today is crazy. There are some bad people that intend on doing us harm so we must do what we can to protect ourselves without going overboard, which I admit we have somewhat. America is not the bad guy. Have there been decisions that we wish we hadnt made? Yes. But overall the troops are doing what it takes for you and me to sleep well at night.
Welcome to the Occupation
February 2nd, 2012
10:08 am
JKL2: “Who was it that ordered the mission to kill Bin Laden? / Bush. He ordered the one for Hussein too.”
Hussein, who was a threat to us on the level of Bin Laden HOW?
Of all the blithering Bircher paranoia we’re subjected to here, your diatribes rank up there among the most tiresome.
Why don’t you try some intelligent criticism of your opponents for a change?
Kamchak
February 2nd, 2012
10:08 am
Guy Incognito
February 2nd, 2012
9:26 am
Gallup’s State-by-State Poll out:
Yes, and I can see by the link you posted it’s the same chain e-mail that we first saw yesterday afternoon and was repeated at least once more.
Kinda late to the party with that one, but thanks for playing.
Butch Cassidy
February 2nd, 2012
10:09 am
JHM – “IMO, our misdirected efforts in Iraq were a critical failure when it comes to the Afghanistan campaign.”
No argument there. I’ve always belived that had we stuck to the mision on Afghanistan, we could have taken out Bin Laden much earlier. Then we could have assessed what other areas could be a potential threat to the U.S. Going into Iraq at the time was an idiotic and ill concieved plan. Still is IMO.
JKL2
February 2nd, 2012
10:10 am
Cynic- This proves O’ is the alpha male and INCREDIBLE decision maker
ROFLMMFAO!!! If there is an alpha in the obama household it would have to be Michelle. He is an INCREDIBLE decision maker as long as you accept “present” as a decision. The man has yet to take responsibility for anything that’s happened in the last three years and you seriously want to call him an “alpha male and “dicision maker”?
A picture is worth a thousand words. Since you have forgotten, here’s your “alpha male” hiding in the corner. Except for the people standing in the second row, it doesn’t look like he’s in charge of anything here.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02/obama-osama-bin-laden-mission-pictures-photos_n_856641.html#273024
Truth
February 2nd, 2012
10:10 am
Adam… I say their way didnt work… And also that capital gains tax is different that income tax.
kayaker 71
February 2nd, 2012
10:10 am
The Pakistanis screamed to high heaven when Seal Team 6 “violated the sovereignty” of their country in taking out OBL. The Somalis didn’t have much to say when another Seal team dropped by and freed a couple of hostages. I am not for “cowboy diplomacy” and bullying other countries around. However, as in the case with the Somali pirates taking tankers hostage, we should have a presence in international waters to protect our interests. A lot of Americans were pretty proud of those Seals that shot those bad guys and freed that ship Captain. You should see the You Tube video of how the Russians handled a similar situation.
Michael
February 2nd, 2012
10:10 am
Truth, the is an unwinnable war. Taking care of business might take 100 years and then it might still be raging on. There are other more effective and less costly ways of dealing with this place. Let’s hope India takes Pakistan out someday.
Adam
February 2nd, 2012
10:11 am
The man has yet to take responsibility for anything that’s happened in the last three years
Not Intended to Be a Factual Statement
curious
February 2nd, 2012
10:11 am
Why not crank up the draft?
If you’re too old, then let your chuldren serve.
Put your money (rear end) up and get in the game. Talk is cheap!
Army 1969-2011
Kamchak
February 2nd, 2012
10:12 am
“Taking care of business (every day)
Taking care of business (every way)
I’ve been taking care of business (it’s all mine)
Taking care of business and working overtime
Work out”
– Thomas Jefferson
Midori
February 2nd, 2012
10:12 am
JKL2 –
when people have doubts about your critical thinking skills, why do you work so hard to verify it?
TaxPayer
February 2nd, 2012
10:15 am
I’ll let the Taliban leaders win at Rock/Paper/Scissors and then make $10,000 bets with them that they can’t do it again and then I’ll show them how I mastered the game in college. I’ll beat them. They’ll never know what hit them. They’re so poor. — Mitt Romney
Adam
February 2nd, 2012
10:15 am
Truth: I say their way didnt work
Of course not. It’s like trying to subsidize schools with a little bit of money that isn’t enough, and then critics like you saying “See! It didn’t work!” You can’t expect one or two people or even just a hundred to make up for the deficit. But you CAN expect that EVERYONE who makes over a certain dollar amount can chip in a little more, and that will have a profound effect on the deficit. But I realize math and science aren’t exactly things you guys like to admit have any reality-based effects.
And also that capital gains tax is different that income tax.
Legally, right now, yes. I say it SHOULD NOT be that way. Income is income, and the only reason to protect investment income so strongly with a flat low rate is to say “I got mine and screw everyone else who wasn’t as luck and privileged as me to be able to get this far.”
Butch Cassidy
February 2nd, 2012
10:15 am
JKL2 – “The man has yet to take responsibility for anything that’s happened in the last three years and you seriously want to call him an “alpha male and “dicision maker”?”
I thought he took responsiblity for making the decision to greenlight Team 6 to move in and kill OBL. At least that’s according to Robert Gates who said ” The decision to send in Seal Team6 was one fo the gutsiest decisions I’ve ever seen a President make” Of course, we all know what a flaming “lib” Robert Gates is.
Adam
February 2nd, 2012
10:17 am
No one wants to attack NASA for being a liberal hack since they proved global warming is real and humans are mostly the cause? I take your silence to mean you admit defeat on this issue.
Granny Godzilla
February 2nd, 2012
10:17 am
Truth
Good thing – you not being pro war. Congrats on that.
“Taking care of business” – what we all want.
I and many more think that things that go boom aren’t always the right approach and seldom should be the first.
getalife
February 2nd, 2012
10:18 am
It means willard wants to keep wasting billions there and cut SS and Medicare.
Kamchak
February 2nd, 2012
10:19 am
It means willard wants to keep wasting billions there and cut SS and Medicare.
As always, you cut right to the heart of the matter. Thanks for that by the way.
Stevie Ray
February 2nd, 2012
10:20 am
Wow, here’s a shocker: Romney will say anything to get elected….BO will say anything to get re-elected. The winner will be the one who raises the most money. Both support warmongering and evangelical democracy….like corrupted pastors on fund raising binge. At least Romney is not completely corrupted yet…
JKL2
February 2nd, 2012
10:20 am
Welcome- Of all the blithering Bircher paranoia we’re subjected to here, your diatribes rank up there among the most tiresome.
Why don’t you try some intelligent criticism of your opponents for a change?
Have no idea what you mean, but I’m sure it’s a great point. (I’m from IL so we don’t base everything from the starting point of racism like people on here do).
Talking with most liberals is like talking with women. You can’t win a debate on intelligence when the person your debating ignores rationality and common sense.
Robert Lee
February 2nd, 2012
10:21 am
Curious, I agree 100%. If the draft came back there would be a lot fewer deployments taking place. I have fond memories of basic training and a rich kid from LA who had argued with his dad and decided he would go into the Army to get money for dental school instead of following dad’s plan for medical school. His storys about their ranch in Utah, houses along the coast of California, multiple brand new cars in high school (as they were stolen, he got a new one each time) etc etc. All of us poor kids were in awe of his decision and dreamed of having those options.
Don't Forget
February 2nd, 2012
10:22 am
I haven’t read all the posts but don’t forget to look at the map. Afghanistan is land locked, we are entirely dependent on Pakistan to supply and defend our guys over there. So what happens if we end up in a confrontation with Iran? Does Pakistan side with us? Do they allow us to continue to supply our troops? Do we end up having to fight our way out? Maybe it wouldn’t be a problem but if it is a problem it’s a big problem.
Thomas
February 2nd, 2012
10:23 am
I say it SHOULD NOT be that way.
Agreed- then do away with the 3k a year net capital loss limitation for individuals and $0 net capital loss for corporations- fair? The gov’t then doesn’t have heads I win tails you lose.
JKL2
February 2nd, 2012
10:23 am
Adam- The man has yet to take responsibility for anything that’s happened in the last three years
Not Intended to Be a Factual Statement
The man is running for re-elction based on “it’s Bush’s fault”
Truth
February 2nd, 2012
10:25 am
Adam… Those people are already carrying a huge tax burden for the rest of us. If you start to tax these people more then they have no incentive to keep producing for the economy.
As for capital gains… Why would you punish people for investing? It is a huge part of the economy. People invest with the possibility on losing their money. Its like gambling. And if the house takes too big of a cut then nobody will gamble which will hurt the economy even more.
Adam
February 2nd, 2012
10:27 am
At least Romney is not completely corrupted yet…
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
Adam
February 2nd, 2012
10:28 am
The man is running for re-elction based on “it’s Bush’s fault”
ALSO Not Intended to be a Factual Statement
Go ahead, “prove” me wrong with a quote from 2009 or 2010.
Adam
February 2nd, 2012
10:28 am
If you start to tax these people more then they have no incentive to keep producing for the economy.
And what exactly are they producing now? Also, the idea that people will stop investing if investment tax rates go up has been thoroughly debunked.
0311/1811
February 2nd, 2012
10:29 am
JAY:
How do you beat any kind of evil especially when aimed at the United States ? Organized crime? The Mafia? KKK? al Qaeda? Weather Underground (Obama’s friends)? Terrorists in general? Pedophiles? Rapists?
You keep at it in the most efficient way possible.
Tommy Maddox
February 2nd, 2012
10:30 am
Romney – bad.
Obama – mystical.
Another day closer to November.
Adam
February 2nd, 2012
10:30 am
It is a HUGE fallacy that people at the top income brackets would suddenly want to stop making money just because a little bit more is taken in taxes. That’s like saying that people stay poor because they LIKE it.
And don’t worry, I know some of you ACTUALLY believe both of these things, and that is why you are not to be trusted with any objective analysis of economic and social situations.
Adam
February 2nd, 2012
10:31 am
You keep at it in the most efficient way possible.
Indefinitely occupying a country is NOT the most efficient way possible.
Stevie Ray
February 2nd, 2012
10:32 am
JKL2,
Agreed on liberal’s debate style but they are mirrored by those on the far right to be sure. Why should BO change the theme that has gotten him thus far….change you can count on reads “not my fault”…He’s accomplished nothing that is material to the masses that will stand the test of time. His signature healthcare bill will cost trillions…and likely no small number of jobs…Heck, a union shop like AT&T will have to continue to increase costs beyond the $1 billion already announced….strange days indeed.
Robert Lee
February 2nd, 2012
10:33 am
0311/1811 so do you think that bribing Afghans with billions of dollars is the most efficient way possible? How about building hospitals and schools? It seems to me that you go in a kill them and then LEAVE.
ragnar danneskjold
February 2nd, 2012
10:33 am
Formula for failure: announce a withdrawal date, so the enemy merely has to wait.
Granny Godzilla
February 2nd, 2012
10:34 am
JKL2
“Talking with most liberals is like talking with women.”
This feeling you have surprises us not.
Don’t fool yourself, he’s running on a record to be proud of.
Truth
Why would you punish people for labor?
getalife
February 2nd, 2012
10:35 am
Also, it means after next year, there will be peace and prosperity.
I am a big fan of peace and prosperity.
Mick
February 2nd, 2012
10:36 am
Formula for greater failure – stay there indefinately…
Truth
February 2nd, 2012
10:36 am
Adam… Obviously this boils down to 2 diferent mindsets…
I believe raising taxes on the them would hurt the economy including job loss and that individuals can make better use of their own money that government.
You believe that the government has a right to more of peoples money for the “common good” and that government can spend it better.
There will never be an agreement on this issue with you.
Kamchak
February 2nd, 2012
10:37 am
Update: Day 7 of the birther thread and it’s still going.
Stevie Ray
February 2nd, 2012
10:37 am
ADAM,
I couldn’t stomach the STATE speech…too much background noise….this is one take…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-grenell/its-not-my-fault-but-ill_b_439713.html
Also, relative to taxing the evil rich, can anyone spell “deferred compensation”?
Welcome to the Occupation
February 2nd, 2012
10:37 am
JKL2: “Talking with most liberals is like talking with women. You can’t win a debate on intelligence when the person your debating ignores rationality and common sense”
You start out with an anti-lib position and re-order the entire universe of facts to support that position. Under no circumstances would you ever concede that your opponent’s position has any merit to it.
And you claim that it’s your opponents who are irrational and emotion-driven?
getalife
February 2nd, 2012
10:37 am
rag.
That is an ignorant.
They know we will leave.
We are broke remember.
Did you want us to collapse like the USSR?
Truth
February 2nd, 2012
10:38 am
Granny… I dont understand what you mean by “Why would you punish people for labor”. Please explain.
Robert Lee
February 2nd, 2012
10:38 am
Rags, so how long would you keep our troops in country then? Did you envision an overnight pullout by all troops so that the enemy is surprised? What responsibility do the Afghan people have for their own situation?
Joe Hussein Mama
February 2nd, 2012
10:38 am
JKL2 — “Talking with most liberals is like talking with women. You can’t win a debate on intelligence when the person your debating ignores rationality and common sense.”
Wow! Between the patronizing attitude, the stalking and the public micturation, I bet you’re just a HIT with the ladies! (laughing, pointing)
getalife
February 2nd, 2012
10:38 am
Oops,
argument.
Granny Godzilla
February 2nd, 2012
10:40 am
Truth
See your previous post and think harder.
Yes you can.
Dirty Dawg
February 2nd, 2012
10:40 am
It’s not the tax on ‘long term’ (remember that modifier) capital gains that’s the issue. It’s all the crap about how lobbiests have succeeded in getting stuff like ‘retained interest’, along with a whole host of others, that’s the pisser. And how in hell does a Mitt Romney get away with giving his kids $100 million each ‘tax free’?
Stevie Ray
February 2nd, 2012
10:40 am
KAMCHAK,
Why do you suppose folks keep bringing that birther (was that even a word before BO?) thingy up?
We all know it’s not relevant….my daughter knows when to ingnore my immaturity…which if more frequent than I will admit.
Mick
February 2nd, 2012
10:41 am
Micturation? I’m mortified….
Recon 2533 1811
February 2nd, 2012
10:42 am
Interesting Gallup report. Based on the recent CBO’s dismal economic projection and this report the Obama campaign only has one strategy and it will be attack, attack and continue to attack right up to election day. Will it work or will it backfire? Could probably go either way. It has shaped up to be bloody.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/152372/Obama-Approval-Above-States-2011.aspx
Robert Lee
February 2nd, 2012
10:42 am
Joe HM, micturation – good one, had to go look that up
godless heathen
February 2nd, 2012
10:43 am
Adam,
“No one wants to attack NASA for being a liberal hack since they proved global warming is real and humans are mostly the cause? I take your silence to mean you admit defeat on this issue.”
Could it be because this thread, nor the previous 5 where you have posted this, are about global warming? As they say, if you don’t like the subject, start your own blog.
Truth
February 2nd, 2012
10:44 am
Sorry Granny… I dont see it
Adam
February 2nd, 2012
10:45 am
You believe that the government has a right to more of peoples money for the “common good” and that government can spend it better.
Way to put words in my mouth. Let’s try this alternative version:
You believe people at the top should be taxed less and less so they can hoard more money and not contribute it more to the economy at all.
I believe people at the top should pay at least as much of a tax rate as a majority of people in the middle class pay.
See how that works?
Stevie Ray
February 2nd, 2012
10:45 am
It really doesn’t matter what we do in Afghanistan…we may as well leave now. That country is as ready for democracy as Venezuela. It’s really none of our business how they treat each other….the taliban will definitely be back in power and perhaps that’s what those folks deserve presently. Our mission was to……..oh oh…I forgot. What was our mission again?
Adam
February 2nd, 2012
10:46 am
godless: As they say, if you don’t like the subject, start your own blog.
I did.
And no, it’s because no one can make a legitimate argument against global warming now. so there.
ragnar danneskjold
February 2nd, 2012
10:46 am
Dear getalife @ 10:37, good morning, fair question. If the military constituted more than 35% of Federal spending, your argument would have a grain of truth. The waste arises from the non-military bureaucracies, and the ripple damage they inflict on the private economy. No, the formula for failure is to abandon the cause, and to allow the terrorists to grow back to the pre-Bush level.
We have been in German for 66 years. I suspect it will take nearly as long to root out the bad guys in Afghanistan, unless we take direct action in Iran.
getalife
February 2nd, 2012
10:47 am
You can tell our President made the right call because our cons change the subject,
godless heathen
February 2nd, 2012
10:47 am
“so there.”
You forgot the “phtttt”
getalife
February 2nd, 2012
10:48 am
That is a load of crap rag.
How much will it cost to stay in combat?
Mick
February 2nd, 2012
10:48 am
stevie ray
Good points about afghanistan. Unless we want to rule the world, we need to back off big time. As a matter of fact, china needs to find some nice wars to bleed their treasury, have at it…
Adam
February 2nd, 2012
10:48 am
Stevie Ray: .this is one take…
From a speech in 2010. Since then, nary a peep about how it’s not his fault. And btw, general “spending” is not the problem. It’s what the money is spent ON that matters, and it’s who gets the biggest tax breaks that matters, when we are trying to take a real serious approach to the deficit.
TaxPayer
February 2nd, 2012
10:48 am
Are racists dumb? Do conservatives tend to be less intelligent than liberals? A provocative new study from Brock University in Ontario suggests the answer to both questions may be a qualified yes. The study, published in Psychological Science, showed that people who score low on I.Q. tests in childhood are more likely to develop prejudiced beliefs and socially conservative politics in adulthood.
ragnar danneskjold
February 2nd, 2012
10:49 am
Dear gatalife @ 10:48, less than the damage EPA inflicts on the economy every year.
Stevie Ray
February 2nd, 2012
10:50 am
RECON,
Interesting. It’d be great if we get rid of BO. Then we can give someone else a chance to accomplish nothing. The idea that government can do anything of substance that can be directly, without ambiguity, linked to improved economic conditions on a macro scale during one or two terms is ridiculous. Unless of course, we are talking about increased government…government can quickly hurt the economy but can quickly improve same.
Mick
February 2nd, 2012
10:50 am
ragnar
When are you voluntering for said mission? Better yet, when are your sons, daughters, brothers, nieces, nephews volunteering? Right, thought so…
Kamchak
February 2nd, 2012
10:50 am
Stevie Ray
David Farrar is the man that got Orly to challenge Obama’s eligibility to be on the Ga. election ballot, and he is the one that keeps responding (even though he declared that thread absurd and not worth pursuing anymore) to his continued insistence that he will get some kind of judgement in his favor.
The fact that an individual is challenging a sitting president’s eligibility, is in itself, news.
Adam
February 2nd, 2012
10:51 am
TaxPayer: Link me that.
Fred
February 2nd, 2012
10:51 am
Recon 2533 1811
February 2nd, 2012
9:02 am
Of course Obama once said that Afghanistan was the war we needed to win. He evidently changed his mind. Oh well, politicians. I think we should get out of there now.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
holy cave droppings Batman, I agree with Recon on something?
Midori
February 2nd, 2012
10:51 am
LOL
I see Del is the lastest recipient of that chain email
Granny Godzilla
February 2nd, 2012
10:51 am
Truth
I’m sorry you don’t see it either.
Labor on it a while.
Robert Lee
February 2nd, 2012
10:51 am
Come on Rags, you know that the bases in Germany were to keep the USSR from invading Germany again.
You’ve still not answered my question, in your opinion, what responsibility do the Afghans have to their own country/government? We rebeled against oppression and made our own as we saw fit to do. Why can’t they be expected to do the same without our help? We already completed our mission of removning al queda.
Welcome to the Occupation
February 2nd, 2012
10:52 am
ragnar: “We have been in German for 66 years. ”
But Germany in 1945 was in rubble. It was rebuilt under our supervision (along with Britain and France).
“I suspect it will take nearly as long to root out the bad guys in Afghanistan, unless we take direct action in Iran.”
No comparison here. De-Nazification did not take 60 years.
JKL2
February 2nd, 2012
10:52 am
Adam- Go ahead, “prove” me wrong with a quote from 2009 or 2010.
How about an oldie but a goodie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-0ecuS8tWs
getalife
February 2nd, 2012
10:52 am
rag,
Wrong as usual.
Then you want to borrow more to occupy Iran.
Thank goodness the American people are sick of you cons and wasting our money.
Just another reason you deserve to lose.
Truth
February 2nd, 2012
10:53 am
Adam… Why act like a jerk? No wonder this country is so divided. Its people like you who cant just discuss without acting like a jackbag.
How about this:
You believe people at the top should pay at least as much of a tax rate as a majority of people in the middle class pay.
I believe that income tax and capital gains tax are completely different. And that raising capital gains taxes would hurt the economy and supress business.
Adam
February 2nd, 2012
10:53 am
Stevie Ray: The idea that government can do anything of substance that can be directly, without ambiguity, linked to improved economic conditions on a macro scale during one or two terms is ridiculous. Unless of course, we are talking about increased government…
So, the government CAN do something of substance?
I do wonder what you think isn’t substantive abotu, oh say….
Medicare
Social Security
The Army
The Navy (and other armed forces)
The FBI
The Interstate Highway system
The CFPB
The NLRB
etc etc
And btw, I totally threw those last two in there for bait. chomp chomp!
AngryRedMarsWoman
February 2nd, 2012
10:53 am
kayaker 71 February 2nd, 2012 9:40 am – Amen. Because we have been tip-toeing through everything since WWII and not doing what it takes to win – no matter how horrible that “it” might be through civilian eyes. Instead, we let our military men and women suffer and die for this pu**yfooting BS. Turn off the cameras and take care of business.
Jay said “But I also fear that if we stayed there another 10 years and spent another trillion dollars and invested another 2,000 American lives, it would still be true then.” Exactly, and the place is a total craphole that is not worth the American blood that has already been spilled. Absolutely nothing worth saving there. Wipe it out….let it lie barren for a couple of generations and then see if anything decent (people, crops, whatever) will grow there. I doubt it.
Pat – “in this “voluntary” military one populated largely by the underclasses, who have fewer options, the children of the people they’ve crushed economically”. I really wish that people would stop trying to portray our military as a bunch of poor fools who had no other choices. My husband was career military…a grunt….still in the reserves….he was a recruiter for a little while…parachute infantry for the rest…he says your comment is crap and I think he would know a little better than you would. Go look at the studies and you will see a military full of folks from everyday middle class families — these are not “impoverished” people. While there may be some folks in the military who feel they have no other options, the vast majority make the choice to serve for a multitude of reasons not based on poverty. Show some respect for folks a lot braver than you or I.
Paulo977
February 2nd, 2012
10:54 am
Anyone listen to Obama’s speech at the Prayer Breakfast?
Brosephus
February 2nd, 2012
10:54 am
When America quit fighting wars to win, we settled for “police actions”, like Korea. If we are going to commit troops and money to a conflict, we should be in it to win. Otherwise, we should never get involved in the first place.
Amen. We should have never put boots on the ground in the first place. On 9/11, Afghanistan didn’t attack us, AQ did. We could have terminated training camps and it’s inhabitants with guided munitions, drones, and other weaponry we have at our disposal. If we were not willing to level Afghanistan completely, we should have never gone in on the ground.
“War is cruelty. There’s no use trying to reform it, the crueler it is the sooner it will be over.”
–William Tecumseh Sherman
Jcon @ 9:54
Best post thus far!!!
RB from Gwinnett
February 2nd, 2012
10:54 am
Leaving Afghanistan isn’t going to make the Taliban stop hatIng us or attacking us and we’re going to fight this battle with radical Islam by whatever name they want to call themselves, regardless of who’s in the WH. Thes people are at the heart of ever conflict going on in the world and burying our heads in the sand ain’t gonna help that.
TaxPayer
February 2nd, 2012
10:54 am
Per your request, Adam.
Adam
February 2nd, 2012
10:56 am
Truth: Why act like a jerk? No wonder this country is so divided. Its people like you who cant just discuss without acting like a jackbag.
Way to go with the projection. I mean, you put up something about how my views are all about hurting the country, and then I turn it around on you to make a point about how stupid it was to do that and you projecting “jackbag” and “No wonder this country is divided” onto me?
I’ll leave you to figure out why this is a problem for you, personally. And I know you will figure this out privately, even if you won’t admit it publicly.
n
February 2nd, 2012
10:56 am
Unfortunately “macho blather” describes a major part of the march of folly that is human history, with it’s endless wars causing endless death and destruction worldwide.
Will someone please invent a virus that disables machismo so that the human race can evolve?
getalife
February 2nd, 2012
10:57 am
We did go into Afghanistan to win it.
Then w decided to cut and run to occupy Iraq remember?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
February 2nd, 2012
10:57 am
Kam, I am not surprised. That particular poster is rabid in his beliefs and seeks attention. What really amazes me is that some intelligent people even think there is something there. I was talking with a Deal appointee a few days ago about some issues at the SOS offices and the appointee says on this issue “I think there is something there.” I asked about the Hawaiian certification and he looked at me blankly and says “did they certify it?” .
Brosephus
February 2nd, 2012
10:57 am
Mick: That’s ridiculous, afghani people couldn’t find the US on a map! For all practical purposes they still have a 16th century economy and you are afraid of them???
Based on that comment, you’d be surprised by the number of Afghanis here in the US as immigrants and visitors. They’re coming every day.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/military/article/Afghans-at-language-school-go-AWOL-785182.php
Stevie Ray
February 2nd, 2012
10:57 am
MICK,
Yeah, I often wonder how rich exactly that Chinese treasury truly is…
ADAM,
We have a collossal spending problem, no budget and taking more from the wealthy may make angry follks feel better, but it’s a lot of risk for small reward. If we keep spending so far beyond our means and not following a budget, we will end up having a huge VAT, worthless currency and will suffer the fate of any household who follows the same prescription. BO clearly directly or indirectly blames the hand he was dealt. Yes, some of us should pay more taxes but don’t you think we should be a bit concerned that BO et al completely disrespect our hard earned coin? They are just gonna piss it away paying back policital favors, growing entitlements, and simply losing track of god knows how much in wonton waste….I wouldn’t invest in a corporation that acted in this fiscal fashion would you?
Recon 2533 1811
February 2nd, 2012
10:58 am
Stevie Ray,
I’m of course a believer that the best place for government as it pertains to the economy is as a facilitator and not as a hands on fixer. At best the government can facilitate by helping to create an environment for economic growth. When it gets the idea that its mission is to take hands on control we get the problem we’re in now. Time for a new team.
Stevie Ray
February 2nd, 2012
10:59 am
GETALIFE,
What were we trying to win in Afghanistan? In other words, what was our prize to be in exchange for lives lost?