Our ‘Marxist in chief’ and the state of our union
Let’s be honest: There is no discernible difference between those who insist that Barack Obama is disqualified by birth from serving as president and those who claim that he is a Marxist or socialist. Both are equally absurd.
Neither group has any factual ground on which to base its inane charges; in their rhetoric, both groups tell us far more about their own internal psychology than they do about the president.
Consider, for example, this portion of last night’s State of the Union address from our “Marxist in Chief”:
First, if you’re a business that wants to outsource jobs, you shouldn’t get a tax deduction for doing it. That money should be used to cover moving expenses for companies like Master Lock that decide to bring jobs home.
Second, no American company should be able to avoid paying its fair share of taxes by moving jobs and profits overseas. From now on, every multinational company should have to pay a basic minimum tax. And every penny should go towards lowering taxes for companies that choose to stay here and hire here in America.
Third, if you’re an American manufacturer, you should get a bigger tax cut. If you’re a high-tech manufacturer, we should double the tax deduction you get for making your products here. And if you want to relocate in a community that was hit hard when a factory left town, you should get help financing a new plant, equipment, or training for new workers.
There were other steps announced as well: “a Trade Enforcement Unit that will be charged with investigating unfair trading practices in countries like China;” a “Financial Crimes Unit” of highly trained investigators to crack down on large-scale fraud; a new education initiative aimed at improving work skills among 2 million Americans; a policy that will reduce federal funding to colleges that allow tuition to rise too quickly, putting them out of reach for many in the middle class.
And then of course there’s this:
“As I told the Speaker this summer, I’m prepared to make more reforms that rein in the long-term costs of Medicare and Medicaid, and strengthen Social Security, so long as those programs remain a guarantee of security for seniors.
But in return, we need to change our tax code so that people like me, and an awful lot of members of Congress, pay our fair share of taxes.
Tax reform should follow the Buffett Rule. If you make more than $1 million a year, you should not pay less than 30 percent in taxes. And my Republican friend Tom Coburn is right: Washington should stop subsidizing millionaires. In fact, if you’re earning a million dollars a year, you shouldn’t get special tax subsidies or deductions. On the other hand, if you make under $250,000 a year, like 98 percent of American families, your taxes shouldn’t go up. You’re the ones struggling with rising costs and stagnant wages. You’re the ones who need relief.
Now, you can call this class warfare all you want. But asking a billionaire to pay at least as much as his secretary in taxes? Most Americans would call that common sense.
We don’t begrudge financial success in this country. We admire it. When Americans talk about folks like me paying my fair share of taxes, it’s not because they envy the rich. It’s because they understand that when I get a tax break I don’t need and the country can’t afford, it either adds to the deficit, or somebody else has to make up the difference — like a senior on a fixed income, or a student trying to get through school, or a family trying to make ends meet.
That’s not right. Americans know that’s not right. They know that this generation’s success is only possible because past generations felt a responsibility to each other, and to the future of their country, and they know our way of life will only endure if we feel that same sense of shared responsibility.”
That last point is critically important. Those who oppose the president’s tax-reform policies condemn them as divisive and complain that he is pitting Americans against each other. But those complaints are born of a philosophy that rejects the concept of shared responsibility in the first place. That philosophy envisions each of us as separate and isolated units, without obligation to each other or the greater good. It assumes that we are stronger when each of us is selfishly pursuing our own goals without concern for each other or future generations.
I don’t believe that. I don’t believe that this country would have achieved all that it has achieved to date had that philosophy been allowed to determine public policy. As Obama suggested last night, that’s not how we got to where we are; it is not how to get to where we need to be.
If that makes Obama a Marxist, well, then I’m a Marxist too.
– Jay Bookman
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488 comments Add your comment
Jay
January 25th, 2012
10:05 am
“Romney was on Fox News explaing that prior to the earnings on the income on his tax statements from investments, it was already taxed once when he earned it AND then put it into his investments. Funny how that is never mentioned.”
Ross, did he happen to mention that when he initially “earned” this income, it wasn’t taxed as earned income at the 28 or 35 or the then-top rate of 39.6 percent?
Did he happen to mention that it was taxed at a mere 15 percent because of a glaring loophole in the law that classifies the “earnings” of private-equity employees like a capital gain, which it most certainly is not?
Did he happen to mention any of that?
As was said last night, we need to “stop sending the wealthy benefits they do not need, and stop providing them so many tax preferences that distort our economy.” But then, that’s the kind of Marxist talk you expect to hear from Mitch Daniels, right?
Filter
January 25th, 2012
10:06 am
I am Malcolm X!
Filter
January 25th, 2012
10:06 am
Sorry. Got Confused.
I too am a Marxist.
Jack
January 25th, 2012
10:07 am
The tax rates are progressive on earned income: The more you make, the more you pay. The cap gains rate is available to anyone that has the ability to take advantage of it. The tax code is written by the Congress and enforced by the IRS. Some tax payers’ cap gain rate is zero, some pay10% and the cap is 15%. Obama wants the rate to go to more than 43% on high earned income and 20% on capital gains. If the capital gains rate is eliminated, there’ll be no incentive to invest; no investment equals no growth; no growth equals no new jobs. Stagnation.
Welcome to the Occupation
January 25th, 2012
10:07 am
Common sense: “I just love how Obama has elevated himself to the rich. Yet he is not rich because he has produced something of value”
You’ve got to love it when they claim that Obama produced nothing “of value” (I guess helping people in your community become more involved in the political process isn’t considered a “value”, figures they would say that, they hate democracy).
And the guy they claim has produced “value” amassed his fortunes and enriched himself by gutting companies, loading up their books with loans and then selling them off, pocketing the profits for himself.
Nice.
Union
January 25th, 2012
10:08 am
Aquagirl
January 25th, 2012
10:03 am
i actually do the classes several times a year.. and have done them for several years.. i heard this illustration several years ago and it is a good example of “personal responsibility” the other part of “personal responsibility” to me is.. helping those that need help and being in a position to do so..
Midori
January 25th, 2012
10:12 am
In what some critics are calling the most radial tactic ever employed in a State of the Union Address, President Barack Obama risked alienating congressional Republicans last night by repeatedly using facts.
Mr. Obama stirred controversy throughout the speech with his relentless references to facts, data, and things that have actually happened, all long considered the third rail of American politics.
As the President made reference to tax rates and unemployment numbers, as well as sixteen separate mentions of Osama bin Laden, congressional Republicans’ blood began to boil.
After the speech, a furious Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell told reporters, “It’s been a longstanding tradition in our politics not to use facts in a State of the Union Address, a tradition the President chose to ignore in an outrageous way tonight. I won’t stand for it and the American people won’t stand for it.”
Soothsayer
January 25th, 2012
10:14 am
Ethics bill gets cool reception in Ga. House (AJC)
Georgia Conservatives in Action, was part of a dozen or so grassroots conservatives on hand to support an ethics bill that would limit the spending of lobbyists and PACs. But there was little GOP backing for the bill: Republicans control both General Assembly chambers, but sponsor Rep. Tommy Smith, R-Nicholls, could not find a single co-sponsor in his party.
Can you imagine that? No support for an ethics bill in our very own Georgia Legislature?
Welcome to the Occupation
January 25th, 2012
10:14 am
Common sense has the cojones to claim that Barack Obama has produced nothing of “value” to earn his money …
As though Mitt Romney’s practice of hoarding capital to buy up companies, then using loans to pad their books and inflate their bottom line before selling them off and pocketing the equity while dumping the debt on others is “value”.
Nice work if you can get it.
godless heathen
January 25th, 2012
10:14 am
Paul,
You posted this at 9:48: “Did you miss the post at 9:59?”
I did because my time machine is in the shop today.
Did I make these statements up?
“Poison – last time I checked, the president was in the EXECUTIVE branch, not the LEGISLATIVE ”
“That’s what is so amusing about you righties. You don’t even know which branch of the government is responsible for legislation.”
I’m just saying that the Obamanauts here want to have it both ways. Obama’s failings are someone else’s fault, but his successes are all his own.
n
January 25th, 2012
10:15 am
Bravo Midori!
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2012
10:15 am
“First, if you’re a business that wants to outsource jobs, you shouldn’t get a tax deduction for doing it. That money should be used to cover moving expenses for companies like Master Lock that decide to bring jobs home”
And of course I would wonder what would happen if Japan,South Korea and Germany all did the same for all those outsourced jobs they sent to the U.S. for all those auto plants in GA,AL., and S. Carolina. And then Obama wants to take that tax money and give it to people like Master Lock. More picking winners and losers. Haven’t we had enough of this crony capitalism crap. I thought only socialists micromanaged economic activity.
Steve - USA (I support "None Of The Above")
January 25th, 2012
10:15 am
“President Barack Obama risked alienating congressional Republicans last night by repeatedly using facts.”
http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/fact-check-obama-pushes-1315901.html
Paulo977
January 25th, 2012
10:17 am
Truth Man
January 25th, 2012
8:36 am
______________________
Soothsayer
January 25th, 2012
10:18 am
Magazine rudely ranks Atlanta as 7th rudest U.S. city (AJC)
Being a Southerner and True Gentleman, I could teach a course on manners. I even recall the lost arts of salad forks, soup spoons and which side of the sidewalk to be on when escorting a lady. If I ever take my wife to fancier environs than the Trackside Tavern, I’m ready.
Imagine my chagrin when learning Atlanta has been crowned the 7th crabbiest city in America by readers of a magazine I’d never heard of until today.
Yes, our once and future friendly city has been overrun by northerners who’ve grown tired of shoveling sidewalks and decent public schools.
With some the Fright-Wingers on this blog, I can sure see that!
Talking Head
January 25th, 2012
10:18 am
“And of course I would wonder what would happen if Japan,South Korea and Germany all did the same for all those outsourced jobs they sent to the U.S. for all those auto plants in GA,AL., and S. Carolina. And then Obama wants to take that tax money and give it to people like Master Lock. More picking winners and losers. Haven’t we had enough of this crony capitalism crap. I thought only socialists micromanaged economic activity.”
Yup. If we continue down this road, we will truly be a fascist state.
Jefferson
January 25th, 2012
10:18 am
I hope the President comes out and asks Newt, “I can understand divoice, but how do you explain the deception and lack of integrety in a 6 year affair with a co worker?”, face to face.
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2012
10:19 am
“Second, no American company should be able to avoid paying its fair share of taxes by moving jobs and profits overseas. From now on, every multinational company should have to pay a basic minimum tax. And every penny should go towards lowering taxes for companies that choose to stay here and hire here in America.”
Like I said. I wonder what would happen if a lot of foreign auto maker’s govts penalized their companies to the point that they had to close down all their auto plants here in the U.S. And why does Mr. Obama think that if Coke sells cokes in Asia that those cokes should be made over here as opposed to being made over there?
This whole outsourcing thing is a bunch of nonsense anyway. We’ve been outsourcing jobs for decades and decades as the world has gotten smaller. Would you prefer that Apple made its I-phone in the U.S.? We can do that. And you’ll pay something like $1600 for that I-phone also. Gawd libs are unbelievable to fall for this crap.
Paulo977
January 25th, 2012
10:19 am
Truth Man
January 25th, 2012
8:36 am
__________________
Your HATE will engulf and choke you …careful !
Jefferson
January 25th, 2012
10:20 am
Those companies build cars here because the market is here.
Joseph
January 25th, 2012
10:20 am
What about when he was a so called professor at Chicago University and he taught Allinsky 101? Allinsky and Marx was pretty much the same person. Even a caveman could figure that out Jay…. You wouldn’t teach something you wouldn’t beleive in…..
Junior Samples
January 25th, 2012
10:20 am
Why is it libs always want to raise taxes instead of lowering expenses?? Business’ in the real world have to act resposibly and work within a budget and become efficient. I’m sick of you libs trying to smother every problem by piling more money on it (other peoples money btw not yours)
Joseph
January 25th, 2012
10:22 am
The utter failure of leadership of his Presidency is enough for him to be unemployed himself come November though… I really could care less about the titles people give Obama on both sides of the isle…
Aquagirl
January 25th, 2012
10:22 am
i actually do the classes several times a year.. and have done them for several years.. i heard this illustration several years ago and it is a good example of “personal responsibility”
Wait, you’re claiming you do a class based on a forwarded e-mail to somehow prove some point on “personal responsibility?”
If you are telling the truth about your profession, I’ll temporarily side with the cons and declare our Universities full of ivory tower losers who need to get a real job. Please identify your supposed course so I can warn everyone to avoid the hell out of such stupid right-wing propaganda disguised as “higher learning.”
Thug
January 25th, 2012
10:23 am
Life is not fair…
…class warfare is never cool
thank God for the 1%
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2012
10:23 am
“And if you want to relocate in a community that was hit hard when a factory left town, you should get help financing a new plant, equipment, or training for new workers.”
Um. Excuse me. Don’t state and local govts already give varied tax incentives to draw in companies? Kinda like we did here in GA to bring in KIA. And what happens on this blog? And how many times have we seen liberals on here bitch and whine about tax breaks and incentives given to companies to locate here??? How many???
Oh but its different this time for 2 reasons. 1 being the feds will manage it so that makes it just great that the fed’l govt micromanages crap and arbitrarily decides which locales are more worthy of tax deductions then other locales. Something tells me vote buying and pandering is now going to come into play with the federal govt picking winners and losers. That’s freaking scary.
My 2nd point? It will be fascinating to see how many libs on here think tax incentives are now a super idea for no other reason than that its Obama who now proposes it. Just kick back and watch. Matter of fact let me get a fresh cup of coffee and bagel and watch the libs now advocate for tax incentives for companies relocating- something they have adamantly opposed on this blog. Doomy loves the smell of fresh hypocrisy in the morning.
Grasshopper
January 25th, 2012
10:24 am
Jeez, count the ’shoulds’ in that little snippet.
Adam
January 25th, 2012
10:25 am
Gordon: What are the details of Obama’s plan to change social security and medicare? I know he is taking money out of Medicare to help pay for Obamacare, but I haven’t heard anything else. What is the plan?
Oh FFS read the damn speech and then look up what he was referring to.
Granny Godzilla
January 25th, 2012
10:25 am
“Alinsky 101″
How cute is that?
KinderAlinsky or JazzerAlinsky could be next.
barking frog
January 25th, 2012
10:26 am
Aquagirl, looks like you popped the top on a can of ‘whup ass’ this morning…
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2012
10:26 am
Jefferson
January 25th, 2012
10:20 am
Those companies build cars here because the market is here.
Jefferson,
I believe someone on here talked about that BMW plant in either S. Carolina or AL. that build BMWs and that the majority of those cars are then sent to Savannah and shipped back to Germany. I wonder what would happen if the Germans start bitching about those outsourced jobs to the U.S.?
Adam
January 25th, 2012
10:26 am
Doom: And of course I would wonder what would happen if Japan,South Korea and Germany all did the same for all those outsourced jobs they sent to the U.S. for all those auto plants in GA,AL., and S. Carolina
They would lose a lot more business than we would. Why isn’t China in that list, hmm?
Mary Elizabeth
January 25th, 2012
10:26 am
Gordon, 9:55 am
“Mary Elizabeth,
Thanks for trying, but neither you nor Adam have mentioned anything that Obama has proposed that will significantly alter the self destructive trajectory that entitlements (especially Medicare) are on.”
=================================
Gordon,
Bottom Line:
Don’t answer to me, but answer, only, to yourself. “Do you really want to do away with Social Security and Medicare, as we know them (as programs for security for all of the old in this nation), and turn them into the precariousness of privately held 401Ks and private health insurance companies for 85 year olds? Yet, we do not want to give a few % points of tax rate increase to the wealthiest in our nation.
Doesn’t something seem out-of-balance in that way of thinking, to you? Have you considered that the entire financial framework within our nation – relative to management vs. labor pay scales – could be out-of-balance in our nation? Could the decreasing opportunity for upward mobility in our nation, today, also be because of an out-of-balance design?
Atlantan
January 25th, 2012
10:27 am
Jay $250,000 isn’t $1million dollars or $1 billion dollars didn’t your Progs study basic math?
Adam
January 25th, 2012
10:27 am
I would like to thank whoever talked about passports a bit ago, because I forgot that is something I badly need to renew. Tax return money is going towards that now, thanks for the reminder
Stevie Ray
January 25th, 2012
10:27 am
JAY,
I just saw your response to my inquiry about the validity of the early post regarding “the first president to…”
I agree with your 2 points but I’m wondering about the other 90%+…if nothing else, it’s pretty funny and likely mostly accurate stuff to one degree or another..
carlosgvv
January 25th, 2012
10:28 am
Obama believes “no American company should be able to avoid paying it’s fair share of taxes by moving jobs and profits overseas”. Unfortunately for us all, the sociopathic Big Business moguls have no patriotism or any regard whatsover for the American worker. Building huge personal fortunes is the one and only thing they care about.
Granny Godzilla
January 25th, 2012
10:28 am
Aquagirl doesn’t use the canned stuff.
It’s fresh.
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2012
10:29 am
“But those complaints are born of a philosophy that rejects the concept of shared responsibility in the first place.”
Well lets talk about shared responsibility. 1% pay 37% of all taxes while 47% pay nothing outside of FICA. Is that what you mean by “shared responsibility?”
Adam
January 25th, 2012
10:30 am
WOODSTOCK: Wealthy Republicans consistently show that they are willing to give much more of their money to charities, this has been proven time and time again…
But I thought Democrats were all about giving to the less fortunate??
I would like you to cite examples of this that “prove” this “time and time again” please. That’s number 1.
Number 2, Democrats give to the less fortunate by paying their taxes and pushing for tax reform that increases tax revenue, and then by pushing for programs that help the less fortunate on a much wider scale – through government – than any charity could possibly hope for.
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2012
10:30 am
“the sociopathic Big Business moguls”
Aaaaaand then I stopped reading.
Thug
January 25th, 2012
10:30 am
239th?
Atlantan
January 25th, 2012
10:31 am
I also enjoyed Obama bashing American companies who outsource jobs to foreign countries, but just a few minutes later talk about how great Siemens (a GERMAN COMPANY) is doing such great things in America. He also had Steve Jobs wife there as a special guest (uhm me thinks Apple outsources a great deal of their jobs to China). Man the guy is embarrassing – but his myrmidons like you are worse. Think for yourself for once.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 25th, 2012
10:31 am
Joseph — “What about when he was a so called professor at Chicago University and he taught Allinsky 101? Allinsky and Marx was pretty much the same person. Even a caveman could figure that out Jay…. You wouldn’t teach something you wouldn’t beleive in…..”
I know *exactly* what you mean. My 20th Century History instructor *had* to have been a Nazi and a Communist, since his lesson plan covered both WWII and the Cold War.
Adam
January 25th, 2012
10:31 am
godless: More like the president will fix what he can and Congress will oppose whatever ideas he has, even if originally theirs, unless they determine the political fallout from acting that way is greater than the gain of being a contrast to the President.
The Thin Guy
January 25th, 2012
10:33 am
Just as a broken analog clock is right twice a day, Jay Bookman is indeed correct. Both he and ØDumbø are Marxists. Both favor the use of the government to redistribute wealth from the productive to the non productive. Both favor the elimination of private property. Both want Marxist medicine with health care rationing, Death Panels, and the massive costs of Third World Medicine which will destroy both our health care system and our economy. I neither know nor care where the Indonesian Imbecile was born. My personal guess is Pluto. All I want if for him to be beamed back to the Mother Ship and for an American to be in the White House a year from now. The State of the Union is simple: It Suxs Donkey Dongs and will until the Kenyan Klutz vanishes.
Adam
January 25th, 2012
10:33 am
Union: You should tell your family to stop sending you chain emails with false stories like that grades being “redistributed” story. You only make yourself less smart reading those.
Butch Cassidy
January 25th, 2012
10:34 am
The SOTU address last night was pretty much what I thought it would be. Obama had some good ideas, but short of inventing a Jedi conspiricy and declaring himself Emporer, I doubt much, if any, of it will come to fruition.
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2012
10:34 am
Adam,
People have cited various studies and surveys on here numerous times showing that cons give far more to charity. Its not really much of a point of debate. And if you don’t believe me all you have to do is look at the amount given to charity by Obama/Biden when they ran for potus the first time. Biden’s sorry ass gave all of $1,000 while Obama gave something like $3,000. Say what you will about Cheney but for years the man has given away 20% of his income to charity- millions.
And here is an article from the NYTimes, that bastion of liberalism, by a liberal writer decrying the lack of giving by liberals vis a vis cons.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html
Mick
January 25th, 2012
10:35 am
“We have met the enemy and he is us”
-Thomas Jefferson
Recon 2533 1811
January 25th, 2012
10:35 am
The left likes to dance around labels by simply calling them absurd while avoiding inconvenient truths associated with an ideology that advocates income redistribution or income equalization through targeting taxation by income class. When you have someone and in this case Obama as our president advocating income equality through government action that takes away income from one group in order to provide financial equality for another group you have a socialist minded individual thus we have a socialist minded president. Obama attempts to employ salesmanship or wordsmithing by saying that those earning over one million dollars a year should pay at least 30% in tax or the same amount as a secretary earning much less who pays a greater percentage of their income in tax. He avoids making dollar comparisons of paid income tax or that almost half of the income earners pay no federal income tax at all.. He also avoids the fact that many in that upper bracket are small to medium business owners and what government takes away in taxation means less that can be reinvested to create jobs. Obama, however, doesn’t really care about job creation he cares about government financial program assistance creation. As Obama himself once said you can put lipstick on a pig but it’s still a pig. Yes Obama’s a socialist and that will be the choice voters will have this November.
Adam
January 25th, 2012
10:36 am
Common Sense: Yet he is not rich because he has produced something of value. He is rich because he has ridden the government gravy train to a position where he can sell books and make speeches.
What a load of crap. You think public office is all a “government gravy train”? Why do you even vote then?
barking frog
January 25th, 2012
10:36 am
Thanks Granny, good to know..
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2012
10:36 am
“That philosophy envisions each of us as separate and isolated units, without obligation to each other or the greater good.”
Spoken like a true advocate of the collective as opposed to a conservative who believes in the freedom of the individual. You libs get scarier by the moment. Without obligation to the greater good? Perhaps Jay needs to refer to the NYTimes article I just posted from a liberal writer complaining about the lack of charitable giving by liberals relative to conservatives. Just the facts sir. Just the facts.
Aquagirl
January 25th, 2012
10:36 am
Aquagirl doesn’t use the canned stuff.
Oh, pul-leeze. This wingnut is claiming he/she/it personally does something cited in an urban legend, the only can necessary is one with marshmallows.
Paulo977
January 25th, 2012
10:37 am
Mary E :The “money” Obama plans to “take out of Medicare” is, in large part, the governmental subsidies given to private health insurance to implement Medicare.
__________________________
It is sad that soooooooooooooooooooo many Americans just have no idea what they are talking about !!
Comprehension skills???
Adam
January 25th, 2012
10:38 am
Jack: The cap gains rate is available to anyone that has the ability to take advantage of it.
Exactly. The ones who can are the ones who are on the high end of the economic spectrum, with a few statistical outliers that do not negate the rule.
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2012
10:38 am
“ It assumes that we are stronger when each of us is selfishly pursuing our own goals without concern for each other or future generations.”
Nope. It assumes, as Adam Smith correctly did over 200 years ago, that people do best when left alone by big govt to pursue their own happiness and economic freedom. The world “selfish” is just your own crap to insult people who believe in freedom. And people who pursue their own goals such as conservatives do have more concern for each other and future generations. That’s why its a fact that conservatives give much more to charity than liberals do as I just pointed out. Because we care. Cons are generous with our own money. Libs are generous with other people’s money.
kayaker 71
January 25th, 2012
10:38 am
Wonder how much earned income is derived from people like Bill Clinton who averages 115K/speech on he circuit? Or perhaps we can speculate how much in earned income that Teresa Heinz Kerry derives from her 700M dollar catsup fortune and how much of her yearly income comes from capital gains. Then there is Nancy Pelosi, worth about 35M…. think that this old broad doesn’t scam the tax system. And lets not forget Buffet, Gates, Soros, the Waltons and countless other Democrats that belong to that evil and loathsome 1% that pay as little income tax as they can…. just like that evil, demonic and unjust American, Mitt Romney.
Mick
January 25th, 2012
10:39 am
doom
Your theorem about charitable gift giving is preposterous, people don’t identify whether they are a con or lib when they give, it is a sickening, retarded, justification. As far as cheney is concerned, the only way he could possibly atone for all the death and destruction he has caused in this world, would be to give his entire fortune away and go live in a monastery begging for god’s mercy of all his sins – nothing less…
Adam
January 25th, 2012
10:39 am
Doom: Like I said. I wonder what would happen if a lot of foreign auto maker’s govts penalized their companies to the point that they had to close down all their auto plants here in the U.S.
And I wonder what would happen if I had a toilet seat made out of gold.
Hey, it’s not impossible, just highly unlikely!
RAMZAD
January 25th, 2012
10:40 am
A good Republican will never let the facts get in the way of a little old fashion racism, a dash of sexism, the party pivot line, and blueprint plan to destroy the environment on behalf of themselves and just a few fat cat cronies they call job creators.
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2012
10:40 am
“Exactly. The ones who can are the ones who are on the high end of the economic spectrum, with a few statistical outliers that do not negate the rule.”
Nope. Lots of middle class people can take advantage of it when they sell a home or when they sell a mutual fund or a stock. You do understand that its not only rich people that own individual stocks right?
obamas_legacy
January 25th, 2012
10:41 am
“But, in philosophical terms, the connection claimed to exist between Obama and his Marxist associates is not merely logical, but causal. His life-long, self-selected connections with known Marxists are claimed to have had a causal influence on his own beliefs. And that is a vital distinction when examining one’s resultant behavior patterns.
It is probabilistic, not deductive, reasoning that best deals with causal relationships. While we cannot conclude with certainty from the truth of documented facts concerning his Marxist associations that Barack Obama himself is a Marxist, it is reasonable to conclude that there is a significant probability that he is and doing so commits no logical fallacy. So his associations are not, as his defenders maintain, irrelevant as evidence of his own beliefs. They are, in fact, determinant.”
Victor Morawski
http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/06/obama-and-marxism-a-legitimate-question/
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2012
10:41 am
“I don’t believe that. I don’t believe that this country would have achieved all that it has achieved to date had that philosophy been allowed to determine public policy.”
Yep. I can believe that. Libs have the mistaken view that we are great because of govt. And cons have the correct view that we are great because of our capitalist system of freedom.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 25th, 2012
10:43 am
Doom — “My 2nd point? It will be fascinating to see how many libs on here think tax incentives are now a super idea for no other reason than that its Obama who now proposes it. Just kick back and watch. Matter of fact let me get a fresh cup of coffee and bagel and watch the libs now advocate for tax incentives for companies relocating- something they have adamantly opposed on this blog.”
If you were honest, you’d recognize that I’ve been advocating tax breaks for direct job creation for months. I do not now and have never had a problem with tax breaks for job creation, but I’ve said many times that we’re harming our economy by giving tax breaks on the *promise* of new jobs, not on the actual *creation* of them — and that this amounts to incenting the accumulation of wealth, not to incenting the creation of jobs.
I’m perfectly fine with extending tax breaks for job creation once the jobs have been created and have been filled for a year or more by Americans. I’m even fine with incentivizing the sustainment of jobs by increasing the tax break for jobs that remain filled by Americans for 5 years, 10 years or more. However, I’m not okay with shoveling tax breaks down a person’s or businesses’ maw before they’ve even bothered to create a single new job.
Create the jobs first, then we can talk about your tax break.
But as lons as you want to talk about hypocrisy, we can also talk about how Republicans are no doubt going to start opposing the notion of tax breaks for job creators, now that Democrats are getting on board. After all, that’s how they treated Romneycare.
jms
January 25th, 2012
10:43 am
OK, so no tax increase for under $250K and tax increases for those over $1 million. What about those making between $250K and $1 million? I’m thinking tax increase.
Stevie Ray
January 25th, 2012
10:44 am
MARYELIZABETH,
Just saw your response to mine earlier..had to jump off briefly.
Your pal BO made several promises in 2008 including: pursing criminal investigations of telecom industry for the whole wiretapping thingy….he went so far as to suggest he would filibuster if needed to make this happen. Guess what, the industry threw millions in his direction and he actually stopped the same filibuster by fellow DEM.
In 2008 he also promised to investigate wall street and mortgage/dervatives for criminal prosecution: Guess what, the likes of Goldman, Citibank, BOA, and multiple hedge funds threw millions at him and nothing happened.
In 2008 he promised transparency…the BOHC bill was rammed behind closed doors….also, $16 billion of $20 billion of stimulus money for green crap was issued to BO campaign bundlers and other contacts who, in some instances, set up shell companies to obtain loans then sold shell companies for a premium to existing (Solyndra like) green companies with no track record of success…created nil for long term employment…where is the transparency?
Same promises…hopes and dreams…What do you hope for MARY??
Acer706
January 25th, 2012
10:44 am
The speech was mindless. University of Minnesota’s states that the speech was at an 8th grade reading level… the lowest rating since 1934.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 25th, 2012
10:45 am
Doom — “Cons are generous with our own money.”
Except when it comes to paying the help.
gadem
January 25th, 2012
10:45 am
I truly wonder if some Republicans know what Marxism really means, or do they just throw it around at their discretion…kind of like socialist and other fear mongering words.
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2012
10:46 am
“As Obama suggested last night, that’s not how we got to where we are; it is not how to get to where we need to be.”
And Obama would be wrong. As are you of course. From this country’s inception in 1776 until the permanent income tax was introduced in 1913 this nation rocketed to either the most powerful nation on earth or certainly one of the most powerful nations on earth. And this was after a bloody civil war and 10 years of reconstruction that we made this amazing economic leap. And we did it precisely because of a limited central govt, no permanent federal income tax, and no nanny state that the libs love to advocate for in the interest of vote buying.
AmVet - Every time a publicly educated neo-con drives on public roads they are Marxists.
January 25th, 2012
10:46 am
Not sure if a kitten dies or not. (I suspect that some of them aim for them!)
As for you self-destructive ostriches in the Reverse Robin Hood Party that keep puking up this canard about how will making the uber-wealthy pay their fair share of tax – as a percentage of their wealth – reduce the deficit, for the umpteenth time, it is not about that!
But it won’t hurt, that is for sure.
This is about justice. I suggest some of you use an on-line dictionary and see what that word means.
And then ask yourselves why you are so averse to it.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 25th, 2012
10:46 am
Doom — “And cons have the correct view that we are great because of our capitalist system of freedom.”
Capitalism’s an *economic* system, not a ’system of freedom,” whatever that’s supposed to be.
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2012
10:47 am
Joe Hussein Mama
January 25th, 2012
10:45 am
Doom — “Cons are generous with our own money.”
“Except when it comes to paying the help.”
Not intended to be a factual statement.
Granny Godzilla
January 25th, 2012
10:48 am
Acer706
Newspaper do it also….
Need Cliff notes?
larry
January 25th, 2012
10:48 am
Using the income tax to redistribute wealth has been going on since 1913, when the income tax was instituted.
Under Republican William Taft.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 25th, 2012
10:48 am
obamas_legacy — “It is probabilistic, not deductive, reasoning that best deals with causal relationships. While we cannot conclude with certainty from the truth of documented facts concerning his Marxist associations that Barack Obama himself is a Marxist, it is reasonable to conclude that there is a significant probability that he is and doing so commits no logical fallacy. So his associations are not, as his defenders maintain, irrelevant as evidence of his own beliefs. They are, in fact, determinant.”
This is the ‘track record” argument that the cons relied on to support the invasion of Iraq. The problem with this argument is that it is often wrong and that it possesses no self-correction mechanism.
Thulsa Doom
January 25th, 2012
10:48 am
Capitalism’s an *economic* system, not a ’system of freedom,” whatever that’s supposed to be.
Yeah. I know that Joe. We all do. But as an economic system it also requires freedom. Of that I’m sure you will agree.
AmVet - Every time a publicly educated neo-con drives on public roads they are Marxists.
January 25th, 2012
10:49 am
I truly wonder if some Republicans know what Marxism really means…
Of course they don’t, gadem!
This is a group of semi-literates who constantly makes up their own bizarre definitions.
Collectively they have almost zero respect for the English language and even less use for intellectual honesty.
And proudly so.
Ask rags, he’ll tell you that conservatism and freedom are synonyms…
Welcome to the Occupation
January 25th, 2012
10:50 am
While we cannot conclude with certainty from the truth of documented facts concerning his Marxist associations that Barack Obama himself is a Marxist, it is reasonable to conclude that there is a significant probability that he is and doing so commits no logical fallacy. So his associations are not, as his defenders maintain, irrelevant as evidence of his own beliefs.
Here ends the Bircher scripture reading for this morning.
Pennsylvanian
January 25th, 2012
10:50 am
Let assume Jay is correct; Obama is not a Marxist. Why did he hang out with all those commies and Marxists? The chicks were easy? They had some good dope?
Joe Hussein Mama
January 25th, 2012
10:51 am
Doom — “And Obama would be wrong. As are you of course. From this country’s inception in 1776 until the permanent income tax was introduced in 1913 this nation rocketed to either the most powerful nation on earth or certainly one of the most powerful nations on earth. And this was after a bloody civil war and 10 years of reconstruction that we made this amazing economic leap. And we did it precisely because of a limited central govt, no permanent federal income tax, and no nanny state that the libs love to advocate for in the interest of vote buying.”
Some historians would point out that our political, economic and military superpower status didn’t arrive until sometime during WWII, *after* all those things you’re upset about came to pass.
It’s a legitimate point of disagreement, and I don’t think you’re in any position to determine who’s right and who’s wrong about it.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 25th, 2012
10:51 am
Doom — “Not intended to be a factual statement.”
Except that it is.
Adam
January 25th, 2012
10:52 am
Doom: You do understand that its not only rich people that own individual stocks right?
You do understand it’s not a major source of their income, driving their tax rate to below 15% effective, right?
Erwin's cat
January 25th, 2012
10:52 am
Adam – “Democrats give to the less fortunate by paying their taxes and pushing for tax reform that increases tax revenue, and then by pushing for programs that help the less fortunate on a much wider scale – through government – than any charity could possibly hope for.”
Given this stretch of logic…then given that just the Reps are the evil rich (as described on this blog) and pay @ 40% of the total tax bill, I’d say the Reps give more to private and govt charity…those Reps are a generous bunch huh?
Stevie Ray
January 25th, 2012
10:53 am
ADAM,
All the government is a gravy train…you think his ridiculous book would have sold anything without his job? Do you understand that the likes of Hastert, Reid, Pelosi and the whole gang can trade on inside information to enhance their wealth…heck its the only bi-partisan activity in congress. Do you realize that 94% of elections are determined by who spends the most? How much do you suppose BO will garner for speaking engagements post presidency? Do you realize what % of congress folks end up lobbyist?
You are naive to think that any government electorate or assignment is not a wealth enhancing opportunity../
Adam
January 25th, 2012
10:53 am
Yep. I can believe that. Libs have the correct view that we are great because of govt. And cons have the mistaken view that we are great because of our capitalist system of freedom.
FYT
NAGA
January 25th, 2012
10:53 am
Funny that Obama referenced Master Lock. The “company” is wholly owned by Fortune Brands which moved over 1000 jobs to China in the late 90s. Last year, ML announced that is was returning a whopping 40 jobs from China back to the US.
Obama – all over the place last night:
(1) Seems to be confused with the difference between a millionaire & billionaire.
(2) He does not understand the “Buffett Rule” & its pratical implications. There are two different tax rates for “earned income” and “investment income”. Most of the truly wealthy people make their money of the latter group & therefore have a lower “tax rate”
(3) He states “if you make…” like 98% of the families??? Is he talking about a single income person (you) or a family (your) that might have two income earners???
Once again, the president does not seem to be interested in uniting this country. What a shame.
Jay
January 25th, 2012
10:54 am
“It assumes, as Adam Smith correctly did over 200 years ago, that people do best when left alone by big govt to pursue their own happiness and economic freedom.”
Care to provide a quote to that effect, Thulsa?
While you look, here are a few actual Adam Smith quotes you may wish to ponder. Probably not, though.
““It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.”
““People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.”
“Our merchants and masters complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price and lessening the sale of goods. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people.”
“As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for its natural produce.”
“Consumption is the sole end and purpose of all production; and the interest of the producer ought to be attended to, only so far as it may be necessary for promoting that of the consumer.”
“Labor was the first price, the original purchase – money that was paid for all things. It was not by gold or by silver, but by labor, that all wealth of the world was originally purchased.”
“To feel much for others and little for ourselves; to restrain our selfishness and exercise our benevolent affections, constitute the perfection of human nature.”
Adam Smith, ladies and gentleman, a proto-Marxist.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 25th, 2012
10:54 am
Doom — “Yeah. I know that Joe. We all do. But as an economic system it also requires freedom.”
Your argument is specious and naive. Capitalism is an *economic* system. Economic systems are generally not dependent on specific governmental/political systems to sustain them. An authoritarian or totalitarian capitalist system is not impossible. Improbable, yes, but not impossible. Capitalism does not = freedom.
Pay attention to detail, Doom.
Adam
January 25th, 2012
10:54 am
Erwin: Given this stretch of logic…then given that just the Reps are the evil rich (as described on this blog BY CONSERVATIVES ONLY.
Seriously, I DARE you to find a liberal who said seriously that the rich are evil
ty webb
January 25th, 2012
10:55 am
which is worse, being called a “racist” or a “marxist”?
carlosgvv
January 25th, 2012
10:56 am
Doom – “and then I stoped reading”
I told you something you didn’t want to hear and you promptly went into complete denial, just as I knew you would.
Tom B
January 25th, 2012
10:56 am
More talk from a “do nothing” community organizer. When is going to do anything he talks about?
Stevie Ray
January 25th, 2012
10:56 am
ACER706
Amen…the language may have been dumbed down but that doesn’t mean the 8th grade educated have a clue about issues beyond “hope and change you can believe in…tax the rich who are the root of all evil blah blah blah…
He’s a phoney selling magic elixir to the masses who are not likely to turn out to vote in same numbers because even they understand that nothing has changed…
kayaker 71
January 25th, 2012
10:57 am
NAGA,
“uniting this country”?
HAhahahahahahahahaha
Granny Godzilla
January 25th, 2012
10:57 am
“Labor was the first price, the original purchase – money that was paid for all things. It was not by gold or by silver, but by labor, that all wealth of the world was originally purchased.”
HOT DAMN THAT SHOULD BE ENSCRIBED ON ALL US CURRENCY
Adam
January 25th, 2012
10:58 am
Stevie: Do you understand that the likes of Hastert, Reid, Pelosi and the whole gang can trade on inside information to enhance their wealth…
Yes, I understand that EVERYONE in Congress can do that, and that the President called for an end to it that he will sign right away. Did you WATCH the speech?
Do you realize that 94% of elections are determined by who spends the most? How much do you suppose BO will garner for speaking engagements post presidency? Do you realize what % of congress folks end up lobbyist?
You are naive to think that any government electorate or assignment is not a wealth enhancing opportunity../
An opportunity is not a “gravy train” And I agree with all your points, but stop acting like it is illegitimate to hold public office, do well in public office, and make some money at the same time. Not unless you are going to apply the same standard to every single industry that produces someone who writes a book and gets into the public eye because of being in a national corporation that gets tons of public subsidies.
Recon 2533 1811
January 25th, 2012
10:58 am
O.T..Interesting analysis from the Associated Press.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/01/24/fact-check-obamas-2012-state-union/