Obama about to delay Keystone pipeline

The Obama administration has reportedly decided not to allow construction of the controversial Keystone XL pipeline, at least along the currently proposed route. The potential environmental dangers of running a major pipeline over one of the most important aquifers on the continent were simply too large, the administration has decided, especially in light of a truncated, 60-day review schedule forced upon it by congressional Republicans.

A different route, it has suggested, might produce a different decision.

That has touched off outrage among Republicans, even though the decision has not officially been announced yet. They hope to use the decision to dramatize their claim that the Obama administration is trying to discourage energy production in this country and has no interest in the additional jobs that would be created.(For a discussion of why those job estimates are vastly overstated, see here).

As Mitt Romney put it, “If Americans want to understand why unemployment in the United States has been stuck above 8 percent for the longest stretch since the Great Depression, decisions like this one are the place to begin.”

They hope to use it t0 dramatize their claim that the Obama adminstration is trying to discourage energy production in this country and has no interest in the additional jobs that would be created. As Mitt Romney put it, “If Americans want to understand why unemployment in the United States has been stuck above 8 percent for the longest stretch since the Great Depression, decisions like this one are the place to begin.”

That’s the story, the narrative that Republicans hope to bolster by blowing the Keystone Pipeline decision out of proportion. On the other hand, there are these things known as facts.

Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics

Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics

In October, the most recent month for which data are available, crude oil production in the United States hit the highest monthly total since March 2003, a 12.2 percent increase over production levels when Obama took office.

In December, there were more people employed in oil and gas extraction in this country than at any point in almost 20 years, with the employment total 13 percent higher than when Obama took office, as the chart above demonstrates.

And overall, imp0rts of foreign oil have continued to drop throughout Obama’s time in the White House.

WTTIMUS2w

Those numbers are incompatible with and in fact directly contradict the meta-narrative that Republicans are trying to sell to the American people about energy.

– Jay Bookman

517 comments Add your comment

Welcome to the Occupation

January 18th, 2012
3:40 pm

Wealth envy! Wealth envy!

kitty

January 18th, 2012
3:46 pm

good for Obama. After the leak from the other pipeline a while back that went into streams and rivers, I think going over an acquifer that provides drinking water to lots of people should be carefully reviewed. We all know how well corporate america follows safety regulations, don’t we?

King of Everything

January 18th, 2012
3:46 pm

Repubs are not interested in facts; only FOX.

Lucifer

January 18th, 2012
3:48 pm

And a big factor, already mentioned by you Jay in an earlier Pipeline posting, is that the tens of thousands of jobs Pubs say will be created by this project, is actually a number closer to 2,500 … if that. Let the Pubs fire away, Willard has so many negatives that I just can’t wait until Barack starts leveling the cannons.

(ir)Rational

January 18th, 2012
3:49 pm

You’re right Jay, a recession and high gas prices haven’t created the decrease in demand for oil and gas in this country. What were those economists thinking? Wait, isn’t it the high oil prices that have made it possible for the oil boom currently going on in North Dakota and Montana to be profitable for the companies extracting the oil? Well, I guess if you want to give Obama credit for the high gas prices, and poor economy go right ahead. As for the pipeline, I don’t have a dog in that fight. If more environmental impact studies are needed, fine do them. Those environmental impact studies probably create jobs too.

CJ

January 18th, 2012
3:49 pm

Kyle Wingfield just wrote the following in his column on this topic: “…this [decision] seems likely to leave…plenty of fodder for effective criticism on his right.”

A certain AJC columnist is also trying to sell a false meta-narrative about energy (and jobs) to his readers.

Ernest T. Bass

January 18th, 2012
3:50 pm

http://www.adn.com/2011/09/03/v-printer/2048301/alaska-ear.html

Think of all those animals that will be left out in the cold !!!!!

Paul

January 18th, 2012
3:51 pm

Okay, I’m confused.

“The Obama administration has reportedly decided not to allow construction of the controversial Keystone XL pipeline, at least along the currently proposed route.”

Is this the route that was proposed last year after the original route was rejected? The route designed to avoid the Sandhills of Nebraska?

CJ

January 18th, 2012
3:52 pm

Mitt Romney: “If Americans want to understand why unemployment in the United States has been stuck above 8 percent for the longest stretch since the Great Depression, decisions like this one are the place to begin.

Obama takes decisive action. Republicans manufacture outrage. Just another day in the Republican echo chamber.

Chris Christie's Dinner

January 18th, 2012
3:57 pm

What’s for dinner?

Paul

January 18th, 2012
3:58 pm

Some of this “it’s only this many jobs” is beginning to sound like the Republican version of “taxing that will bring in only $300 million.”

Tom Middleton

January 18th, 2012
3:58 pm

Thanks, Jay. I was hoping you would write about this. Just goes to show us that it’s much more difficult to be a responsible cost-effective president than an opposition party willing to say (and do) anything to get back in power, God help us!

Jay

January 18th, 2012
3:59 pm

Paul, I’ve been trying to get an answer to that question myself, so far without success. My guess would be that they’re going to say they didn’t have enough time to study that new route in the short window given them by Congress, but I haven’t been able to confirm that anywhere.

Ernest T. Bass

January 18th, 2012
4:04 pm

During a radio interview on Wednesday, Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) attempted to argue that drilling for oil in Alaska’s Arctic National Wildlife Reserve (ANWR) would be beneficial for Arctic wildlife. Bachmann claimed that drilling would cause not only an “enhancement of wildlife expansion,” but that the area around oil pipelines would also “become a meeting ground and ‘coffee klatch‘ for caribou”:

“Some suggestions are that perhaps we would see an enhancement of wildlife expansion because of the warmth of the pipeline,” she said. [...] The pipeline has now become a meeting ground and “coffee klatch” for the caribou, she said.

Bachmann is not alone among conservatives in pushing this narrative of drilling being good for caribou. Rush Limbaugh said on his radio show last week that “the caribou have multiplied ’cause they like the warmth that surrounds the pipeline.” On Tuesday night, National Review’s Jonah Goldberg made a similar argument on Fox News:

GOLDBERG: People don’t realize that at Prudhoe Bay, where they have been drilling for 30 years, the central Arctic caribou herd has increased fivefold since they started drilling up there. Some people say it’s because they get to hide from the bugs. It’s a little easier for them. But people say it’s because of the lack of hunting. But it is not dangerous to the caribou up there.

This is the kind of idiocy we are up against folks.

scrappy

January 18th, 2012
4:05 pm

I’m all for the pipeline, and believe most of my left leaning friends would agree. I just don’t want the thing to leak, and if there is a problem I don’t want it to be in drinking water or somewhere else that we can’t get back once it is messed up.

1 – go around
2 – have stiff penalties & jail time for “letting” it leak.

Butch Cassidy

January 18th, 2012
4:05 pm

“Mitt Romney: “If Americans want to understand why unemployment in the United States has been stuck above 8 percent for the longest stretch since the Great Depression, decisions like this one are the place to begin.”

I wasn’t aware that Mitt was so concerned about job creation in the 4 states with the lowest unemployment numbers in the country. It must be horrible to go to work as a counter person at McDonalds in Western North Dakota and only make $25.00 an hour.

AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater

January 18th, 2012
4:10 pm

Paul, a couple of years ago I drove that region.

It is, as you would guess, very remote and unpopulated.

The most remarkable thing about it – and something I have never seen anywhere else – is that the Ogallala Aquifer has through the eons, produced literally thousands and thousands of these amazing little spring fed ponds and lakes out in the grasslands and pastures.

I know that many people see no beauty in the Great Plains whatsoever, but to me this area is really wonderful and unique…

I miss the good old days when our president would French kiss Saudi princes for a little more oil!

Tom Middleton

January 18th, 2012
4:11 pm

Just saw Eric Kantor on TV, and he still didn’t acknowledge that President Reagan had to raise taxes 11 times to help cover his many mistakes…lol.

bman

January 18th, 2012
4:11 pm

I’m all for taking the time that is necessary to make sure that if they move fwd on this, it’s done right. If the Obama administration had done this with the healthcare mess, I would have been impressed.

ByteMe

January 18th, 2012
4:12 pm

scrappy: that makes YOU a job-killer, doncha know!

AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater

January 18th, 2012
4:14 pm

Ernest T, uninformed stupidity like that is not that remarkable when you consider that to that lameass, science-averse crowd – as exemplified by that hoggish freeloader – words like ecosystems and environmental stewardship are profanity…

Democrats = Liars

January 18th, 2012
4:16 pm

Obama and the far left progressive democrats don’t won’t the Keystone Pipeline because it would be good for America and provide good, clean, safe oil for our needs here back at home. It’s the JOBS stupid. Look no war for oil all we have to do is buy it from our friendly neighbor Canada. Obama isn’t a good president and will never do what’s right for our ecomony because he and his followers want to destroy America so that they can transform it into some kind of socialist or communist country. Jay you and the rest of the paid liars in the media are part of the problem. How about both sides of the story Jay for once.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 18th, 2012
4:17 pm

B. Cassidy — ” It must be horrible to go to work as a counter person at McDonalds in Western North Dakota and only make $25.00 an hour.”

I bet they don’t have a dollar menu. :)

Paul

January 18th, 2012
4:17 pm

Jay

Thanks. I just heard an update on NPR that seems to confirm that.

Bruno

January 18th, 2012
4:17 pm

From below:

Are you quoting her accurately. Cause that just seems out and out crazy that self- reliance would lead to rioting and plundering like in London.

Doom, here is USinUK’s initial post on the topic:

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/01/16/a-prophetic-voice-still-echoes/?cp=3#comment-831867

“”I think we’ve been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it’s the government’s job to cope with it. ‘I have a problem, I’ll get a grant.’ ‘I’m homeless, the government must house me.’ They’re casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It’s our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There’s no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation.”” – Maggie Thatcher

this is what happens with the “look after yourself first” mentality:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/gallery/2011/aug/09/london-riots-croydon-hackney

scrappy

January 18th, 2012
4:18 pm

yeah – and a liberal extremist tree hugger!

Joe Hussein Mama

January 18th, 2012
4:19 pm

Bruno — “this is what happens with the “look after yourself first” mentality”

Yeah, I’ve got a friend in Croydon. He lost his business in the riots last summer.

Finn McCool

January 18th, 2012
4:21 pm

The caribou thrive cause of the warmth that emanates from the pipes?

Those is some of the most ridiculous statements I’ve seen from so-called adults in years.

carlosgvv

January 18th, 2012
4:22 pm

Facts mean nothing to the Republican presidential hopefuls. They will distort and lie about this Keystone project knowing millions of their voters will believe every word they say.

Paul

January 18th, 2012
4:22 pm

AmVet

I, too have been through there. It’s one of those things you really need to see to appreciate. Like the Black Hills. Or northern Arizona.

I don’t think it unreasonable at all to go to above-normal measures to protect it. It’s an aquifer, fer cryin’ out loud. Those who blow off such concerns remind me of the chem company lawyers in Erin Brockovich who were about to drink a glass of water and Erin said “enjoy. We got it from next to your containment pond.”

Having said that, 60 days to gather, review, receive answers regarding concerns, is not enough time. But I can see an accelerated schedule that should get this done in less than a year. For the revised route.

Bruno

January 18th, 2012
4:22 pm

When pressed for clarification, here is USinUK’s second post:

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/01/16/a-prophetic-voice-still-echoes/?cp=3#comment-831880

“Bruno – she was a horrible woman with horrible policies … and she’s reaping the whirlwind of karma.

and, yes, the looting is EXACTLY what happens with the “there is no such thing as society, I should look after myself” mentality.”

Now, I’m sure USinUK didn’t intend for her words to sound the way they did, but in reading between the lines, the only possible system which she believes works is the one you suggested, Doom:

“And it also sounds like a straight out call for submission to being controlled by a central authority and giving up your freedom, especially economic freedom, to a monolithic govt bureaucracy that will tell you what you can do, where you can live, how much you can make, etc. Sound like a call to self slavery via govt. Its frightening to think that people think that way”.

Soothsayer

January 18th, 2012
4:23 pm

Jay, that doggone 0 is just too dadgum close to that o! Either that or your fingernails need trimming! HAHAHAHA!

Paul

January 18th, 2012
4:24 pm

Tom Middleon

Never mess with a myth.

Especially when it’s a near-religious icon.

Finn McCool

January 18th, 2012
4:25 pm

I’m going to suggest to every homeless person I see that they should move to Alaska because they have warm pipes there.

Butch Cassidy

January 18th, 2012
4:25 pm

Democrats=Liars – “provide good, clean, safe oil for our needs here back at home.

Actually, the oil produced in the Bakken is pretty crappy and needs to be refined to the nth degree in order to be utilized on the open market. Oh, and even if we dug up every last drop of oil on the continent, it can still be sold on the world market by the drilling company that produced it. The only way around that unfortunate fact would be to Nationalize the oil companies and force them to sell the product here at home, which would just piss you off even further.

Notable Quotables

January 18th, 2012
4:25 pm

These requirements to not pollute the drinking water are gonna us! — Typical Republican

Paul

January 18th, 2012
4:25 pm

Democrats-liars

” It’s the JOBS stupid. ”

Umm…. no…. it’s the oil.

What argument would you make in favor of it if the companies were able to do the construction and maintenance with existing manpower?

Paul

January 18th, 2012
4:26 pm

Bruno

Why don’t you save it for the morning when you can involve USinUK?

TM

January 18th, 2012
4:27 pm

He has no plan or desire to improve employment numbers now. He wants to keeps as many people on unemployment through Nov. he can rely on them to vote for him to keep the benefits flowing.

Butch Cassidy

January 18th, 2012
4:28 pm

Paul – “What argument would you make in favor of it if the companies were able to do the construction and maintenance with existing manpower?”

Apparently, Dem=Liar is just upset because he was just getting ready to make his big move to the Williston basin. I’m sure he had his spot at the Wal Mart parking lot all picked out.

Finn McCool

January 18th, 2012
4:31 pm

Dat der’s de problem with Georgia- not enough of dem warm pipelines. That’s why we ain’t gots no caribou.

Common Sense

January 18th, 2012
4:31 pm

So as Obama’s actions continue to weaken the economy, and oil imports drop, you want to dismiss the narrative?

Put a chart up thee with the prices of energy and see how it looks.

How long are you going to defend this POTUS, who obviously does not believe in putting America and American jobs first?

Jm

January 18th, 2012
4:31 pm

Obama the job killer and economy killer

True to form he is

Fire him

Bruno

January 18th, 2012
4:31 pm

Yeah, I’ve got a friend in Croydon. He lost his business in the riots last summer.

Well, Joe, since USinUK had such a difficult time clarifying her statements on Monday, maybe you can help. Do you truly believe that looting and rioting are legitimate examples of self-reliance in action?? Or are they more likely the actions of a spoiled generation raised on the idea that they are “owed something” whose golden goose was taken away??

Like the OWS crowd, I have to believe that the rioters would be far better off if they had spent the same number of hours doing something constructive.

Link?

January 18th, 2012
4:32 pm

Ernest T. Bass,

Do you have any reputable links that show the Caribou population has declined in the ANWR since the pipeline was built?

Thank you.

Tom Middleton

January 18th, 2012
4:32 pm

Paul: “Never mess with a myth. Especially when it’s a near-religious icon.:”

Even when it’s being constantly used to keep us from doing what is right and best for all of us? Not a chance, Paul. I mean, I ain’t afraid of no nothing, bro. :)

Joe Hussein Mama

January 18th, 2012
4:32 pm

B. Cassidy — “Apparently, Dem=Liar is just upset because he was just getting ready to make his big move to the Williston basin. I’m sure he had his spot at the Wal Mart parking lot all picked out.”

From what I’ve read, the police and sheriff’s department up there have their hands full with rowdy, bored oilworkers and men looking to *become* rowdy, bored oilworkers, in addition to folks who just show up looking for work and who didn’t make arrangements ahead of time for housing (there’s generally none to be had unless you bring a camper or make prior arrangements).

AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater

January 18th, 2012
4:32 pm

The facts are irrefutable, the GOP has an absolutely disgraceful record when it comes to protecting our natural resources for future generations.

Only with immoral idiots like George Walker Bush at the helm could you tout legislation that INCREASED the output of mercury and other poisons into the air and call it the Clean Skies Act.

The neo-cons also tried their damnedest to gut the Endangered Species Act.

And lets put thousands of miles of logging roads in very fragile ecosystems, allow more widespread decimation of old growth forests and call it the……….Healthy Forest Initiative!

Teddy Roosevelt and even Richard Nixon would have wanted puked at the sight of these men.

A damned disgraceful lot, to be sure.

Talking Head

January 18th, 2012
4:33 pm

This is why our economy and our country for that matter will be held back as long as we have someone like Obama as our President.

“However many jobs might be generated by a Keystone pipeline,” he said, “they’re going to be a lot fewer than the jobs that are created by extending the payroll tax cut and extending unemployment insurance.”

The guy has no clue what he’s talking about because he’s never been in a position that creates jobs, or how a business is ran, or participated in applied economics. He believes in school room economics based off theories that are applicable to certain situations and wants to apply those big government policies across the board.

How are you creating jobs by taking funding out of Social Security and presenting it as a ‘payroll tax cut’? How are you creating jobs by extending unemployment insurance?

Recon 0311 2533

January 18th, 2012
4:33 pm

Figures don’t lie but liars always figure.

Obama is nothing more than a cheap politician who puts his re-election ahead of the country’s best interests. He’ll get the environmentalist lobby’s money and the country will lose jobs, along with a dependable energy source from a friendly neighbor. The Chinese must be overjoyed.

RB from Gwinnett

January 18th, 2012
4:33 pm

Jay – “My guess would be that they’re going to say…” whatever will appease their sheep. And I’ll guarantee without exception, every last one of the liberals on this blog will swear on a rich person’s money it’s a valid reason just because Obama said it.

Why don’t we just build a refinery on our side of the Canadian border?

Jm

January 18th, 2012
4:34 pm

Jay wrong again

We would be importing even less oil if Obama hadn’t shut down the gulf permanently

Oil guys are getting more out of existing wells

Obama doesn’t deserve any credit for that

More jay disinformation

Butch Cassidy

January 18th, 2012
4:35 pm

TM – “He wants to keeps as many people on unemployment through Nov. he can rely on them to vote for him to keep the benefits flowing.”

Ummmm… you do realize that the area that we are talking about has the lowest unemployment in the entire country right? In fact, most people have no problem finding work. The biggest problem is finding a place to live. Why don’t you go listen Beck or Hannity and try again.

josef

January 18th, 2012
4:36 pm

The thread…is this a surprise? There have been way too many questions raised about this pipeline that have not been adequately answered to fast track it.

Oh, yeah, and nice graphs!

TOM MIDDLETON

Since you’re here, relative to our exchange Friday, in case you are interested…

http://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/JewishNews/Article.aspx?id=248096

The following is rather long, but is a more detailed analysis of the “conjunction” the Post article refers to.

http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/21832.html

scrappy

January 18th, 2012
4:36 pm

“Oh, and even if we dug up every last drop of oil on the continent, it can still be sold on the world market by the drilling company that produced it. The only way around that unfortunate fact would be to Nationalize the oil companies and force them to sell the product here at home, which would just piss you off even further.”

Darn it! Truths! I hate it when those things get in the way of a perfectly good Obama is a job killing-over regulator-rant!

Jm

January 18th, 2012
4:36 pm

Imports are down due to the crappy Obama recovery

Thulsa Doom

January 18th, 2012
4:36 pm

“In October, the most recent month for which data are available, crude oil production in the United States hit the highest monthly total since March 2003, a 12.2 percent increase over production levels when Obama took office.”

Just another misleading stat and one easy to blow outta the water. Anyone who knows someone in the oil industry will tell you there are plenty of oil pumping stations throughout OK,Texas, and elsewhere that the owners simply don’t operate those pumps until oil hits a certain high. At that point its then economically feasible to pump those fields but before then it is not. And hence since we are suffering under high oil prices with this administration its been feasible for awhile now to operate those pumps and thus we are now pumping more oil. But that’s only because oil is priced so high right now. So your stat is not only misleading but kinda silly.

Got any more soft balls to hit outta the park Jay?

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

January 18th, 2012
4:37 pm

Well, those poor Canadians and Japs! Just because we own the land is no reason not to let them get the oil out. Us not getting any more oil for it don’t have nothing to do with it. Seems to me we went thru this once when a bunch of injuns didn’t like us pushing a railroad thru their land. Turns out we took the land and got the railroad to boot.

Say, how big’s the Canadian army?

Jm

January 18th, 2012
4:38 pm

Obama is lying

He could approve the route tomorrow

He is playing politics with jobs and business

This is why America is a mess

Fire Obama

Winston Smith

January 18th, 2012
4:38 pm

Bruno

January 18th, 2012
4:39 pm

Why don’t you save it for the morning when you can involve USinUK?

Unfortunately work takes priority over blogging. Tomorrow I have to work by myself, so won’t have time.

The point here isn’t to beat up on USinUK in particular, but to highlight the fundamental difference in thinking between liberals and conservatives. This conversation started in the thread below in regard to a book now out which traces the history of the “Utopian Movement”:

http://www.amazon.com/Ameritopia-Unmaking-Mark-R-Levin/dp/1439173249/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326922692&sr=8-1

Jm

January 18th, 2012
4:39 pm

Fact

Obama values his re election more than you having or finding a job

Time to teach him to find a new job

Link?

January 18th, 2012
4:40 pm

Higher MPG cars = Less Gas used
Higher Gas Prices = Less Driving

Triple AAA cited these 2 reasons in it’s “Going Places” magazine on why Georgia is running short on road revenue.

Higher Oil Prices = Increase Domestic production. Not unlike increased Gold Mining, the higher the price the more financially viable it is to go after oil.

I am not so sure the Democrats get any of the credit or blame for those factors.

Paul

January 18th, 2012
4:41 pm

What amazes me is Republicans are so in favor of a stimulus package that costs $1,400,000 for each job it produces…..

Democrats = Liars

January 18th, 2012
4:41 pm

Paul and Butch, Can’t debate the truth boys. Maybe Jay the “ref” should have your bloggs removed and blocked for name calling. Jay seems to do that to the conservative bloggers when they fire back at you children. But only allows you left wing bloggers a free pass just like the media gives little Obama a free past.

AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater

January 18th, 2012
4:41 pm

I say screw Canada’s boreal forest, the moose and bison therein, along with the walleye and whitefish, the beaver and mink.

Turn the hole damn place into a giant stinking pond of contaminated water.

The self-obsessed, live for NOW dicks in this country need more fuel for their gas guzzling pig Suburbans and Tahoes…

Butch Cassidy

January 18th, 2012
4:42 pm

jm – “He could approve the route tomorrow
He is playing politics with jobs and business”

Actually he’s not. If you want to work in the Bakken Fields, go ahead. Theres more than enough work with or without the pipeline. Trust me, I’ve been there, I know people who survey there, my best friend from college chairs the Engineering Department at NDSU and consults there on a regular basis. Unless you were planning to pack up and head for the fields, you have nothing to bitch about.

Paul

January 18th, 2012
4:42 pm

Jm

“He could approve the route tomorrow”

Please tell us you have a source for this?

A question?

January 18th, 2012
4:42 pm

Jay, if you had the chance to felate Obama would you? Be honest.

Granny Godzilla

January 18th, 2012
4:42 pm

I suggest each individual who supports this hot mess put a couple of barrels of it in their garage for a year or two.

Leave the lids slightly open.

Breath deep.

Make sure your kids and grandkids get a big dose too.

And don’t forget Rex or Snowball!

Short term – better have health insurance.

Long term – less Republicans.

Paul

January 18th, 2012
4:42 pm

Bruno

Thanks.

Winston Smith

January 18th, 2012
4:42 pm

Fact: jm is a pathetic troll.

Jefferson

January 18th, 2012
4:43 pm

Good deal, anything that a simple WTF response from the GOP means it was the right thing to do.

Butch Cassidy

January 18th, 2012
4:45 pm

Democrats=Liars – “Paul and Butch, Can’t debate the truth boys”

Seriously, have you ever actually even been to the Bakken Fields? I have, I’ve actually seen first hand the mass chaos in Williston on the edge of the fields. I have spoken to people living in parking lots because there is no where else to live while they work. Trust me chief, there is PLENTY of work out there. The pipeline wont do shixx to help the economy or to lower the price of gas. Get over it.

Common Sense

January 18th, 2012
4:46 pm

“There have been way too many questions raised about this pipeline that have not been adequately answered to fast track it.”

Yet when it came to health care or increasing the debt limits:Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!”

Paul

January 18th, 2012
4:47 pm

Democrats = Liars 4:41

“Maybe Jay the “ref” should have your bloggs removed and blocked for name calling”

[[” It’s the JOBS stupid. ” (Your words)

(My words) "Umm…. no…. it’s the oil.

What argument would you make in favor of it if the companies were able to do the construction and maintenance with existing manpower?"]]

What part of what I posted do you consider name calling?

Or were you reading my quote of what you posted earlier (”It’s the JOBS, stupid”) and you got confused?

Joe Hussein Mama

January 18th, 2012
4:47 pm

Bruno — “Well, Joe, since USinUK had such a difficult time clarifying her statements on Monday, maybe you can help.”

I’m not in a position to speak for USinUK. I can speak to some of what my friend has told me, but that’s about it.

“Do you truly believe that looting and rioting are legitimate examples of self-reliance in action??”

Have I ever given you any indication that I believe that in the first place?

“Or are they more likely the actions of a spoiled generation raised on the idea that they are “owed something” whose golden goose was taken away??”

I can’t speak to the motivations of the individual rioters. I don’t know any of them and I haven’t spoken to any of them. But FWIW, I think you’re presenting a pretty binary choice when IMO, the actual truth is liable to be a lot more gray than you appear willing to admit.

“Like the OWS crowd, I have to believe that the rioters would be far better off if they had spent the same number of hours doing something constructive.”

You mean like this?

http://www.ajc.com/news/pastor-occupy-atlanta-helped-1306772.html

My friend owned a small business in Croydon (selling art supplies), which got hit on the second night of the rioting. The next morning, he and the other business owners in the area agreed to band together to protect their businesses (in some cases, what was left of them). So after a few hours’ sleep, they equipped themselves with pipes, cricket bats (I sent him a link to purchase Louisville Sluggers, which he found most interesting) and whatever else they could lay their hands on (also stacks of loose bricks) and they stood vigil in the streets all night. The police came by a couple of times and asked them to disperse; he tells me that they politely refused unless the police planned to stand there in their stead. They did have a few close calls over the next couple of nights, but when the hooligans realized that these shopowners would be all too happy to hit back, they left in search of easier pickings.

I don’t know when I’ve ever given you an indication that I endorse lawless violence. I’m perfectly fine with nonviolent civil disobedience (such as OWS engages in) and I wholeheartedly support the right of Americans to peaceably assemble (including Tea Party members), but I’m not okay with rock-throwing, firebombing and widespread looting, particularly in the absence of extenuating circumstances like natural disasters (I’m not going to take someone to task for stealing food after a hurricane) or alien invasion/zombie attack.

I think you’ve probably attributed some views to me that I don’t hold, and I think that perhaps I should remind you that I voted on your side for over 20 years before crossing over to the Democrats in 2003-2004. I don’t think I’m quite what you appear to think I am.

Matti

January 18th, 2012
4:47 pm

The point here isn’t to beat up on USinUK in particular, but to highlight the fundamental difference in thinking between liberals and conservatives.

WHY? Some people are interested in expanding their understanding and perspectives, and some are only interested in “proving” they are right. Some actually think there’s merit in bringing different perspectives to the table in the hopes that solutions might be found in a broader understanding.

Personally, I appreciate being enlightened, and am not so arrogant to think that I’m done learning. Sadly, more than anything, I am usually just appalled by the arrogance and nastiness of others here. So again, I ask, Bruno: WHY? Since you’ve already admitted leaning toward the “me first/only” philosophy, why come here? Why discuss it? WHAT’S IN IT FOR YOU?

Butch Cassidy

January 18th, 2012
4:47 pm

Common Sense – “Yet when it came to health care or increasing the debt limits:Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!””

And which of those things posed a realistic threat to an underground water source for millions of people?

Jm

January 18th, 2012
4:48 pm

Paul

See politico november 11 2011 article “Obama punts keystone xl pipeline”

State department (authority relevant) released environmental assessment in august 2011 saying it was the preferred route and Hillary approved in October

O is playing politics

Pure and simple

With American jobs

Talking Head

January 18th, 2012
4:48 pm

“Obama about to delay Keystone pipeline”

For the sole purpose of pandering to the eco-fascists that align themsleves with the Dems. Too bad more and more ‘independent’ voters are dropping their support for Obama.

Democrats = Liars

January 18th, 2012
4:48 pm

Obama Sucks

January 18th, 2012
4:33 pm
Obama is a traitor. He gives hundreds of millions of dollars to the PLO, Hamas, Hezbullah, and the Muslim Brotherhood thru the state department with Hillary Clinton’s help. These muslim terrorist are the same ones killing our soldiers and firing missles into Israel daily. And now the President Obama won’t allow us to get oil from Canada thru the Keystone Pipeline Project. Obama is doing all he can to destroy America including giving away our missle codes to China and Russia. Vote for Newt in 2012

Bruno

January 18th, 2012
4:49 pm

Only with immoral idiots like George Walker Bush at the helm could you tout legislation that INCREASED the output of mercury and other poisons into the air and call it the Clean Skies Act.

It might help if you told the WHOLE TRUTH, Brother Am. The mercury standards in place today are the same ones that were in place under Bill Clinton. Brother Bill tried to pull a fast one during his last days in office by executing Executive Order 12898 which pushed the mercury standards so low that no industry could reasonably comply. He knew that Bush would be forced to overturn it, thus giving the “half-truthers” like yourself permanent ammunition against Bush.

If lowering the mercury levels was so important, why didn’t Clinton address it through the normal channels during his previous 7 7/8 years in office??

Steve - USA

January 18th, 2012
4:49 pm

The fact of the matter is that Alternative Energy is not viable yet and people (even Democrats) like their electricity (that powers computers), Cars and AC/Heat!

We need to embark on a massive Conservation program until Alternative Energy does become viable. Now would be a good time to make some strict guidelines on new home building that forces all new homes to be ultra energy efficient before housing rebounds.

philosopher

January 18th, 2012
4:50 pm

Hmmmm- health CARE…or health DESTRUCTION. It takes very little Common Sense to to think of them as of equal value.

AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater

January 18th, 2012
4:50 pm

http://s.ngm.com/2009/03/canadian-oil-sands/img/candian-oil-sands-615.jpg

Take a good look, you money uber alles boys.

Over fifty square miles of that slime now exists in Canada.

Last April some 500 migrating ducks mistook one of those ponds, at a newer Syncrude mine north of Fort McKay, for a hospitable stopover, landed on its oily surface, and died.

(From that start up, junk science rag, National Geographic.)

Fill ‘er up, Johnnie…

Democrats = Liars

January 18th, 2012
4:52 pm

Butch, President Obama is bad for our health and well being not to mention the water supply.
Obama = Disaster

Joe Hussein Mama

January 18th, 2012
4:52 pm

D = L — “Obama is doing all he can to destroy America including giving away our missle codes to China and Russia.”

I’m starting to think you’re just an elaborate troll.

Boy, I sure wish there was an Ignore function on this message board.

AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater

January 18th, 2012
4:53 pm

More Bush conservatism:

Gutting key sections of the Clean Water and Clean Air acts

Dismantling the protections of the Endangered Species Act

Opening millions of acres of wilderness to mining, oil and gas drilling, and logging

Defunding programms charged with the clean-up of toxic industrial wastes such as arsenic, lead and mercury

Reducing the enforcement effort in the Environmental Protection Agency

Removing grizzly bears and wolves from the endangered species list

Endorsing commercial whaling

Approving mountain-top removal for coal mining

The man should be waterboarded with poisoned water…

Butch Cassidy

January 18th, 2012
4:53 pm

Democrats=Liars – “President Obama won’t allow us to get oil from Canada thru the Keystone Pipeline Project.”

Again, unless you were planning to move to the oil fileds, you have nothing to worry about. Oh, and about the Nuclear codes, you may want to lay off the Heritage Foundation for a while or at least admit that we are talking about the UK Trident missles which are completely different from giving Russia and China our defense codes. Nice try.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 18th, 2012
4:55 pm

AmVet — “Last April some 500 migrating ducks mistook one of those ponds, at a newer Syncrude mine north of Fort McKay, for a hospitable stopover, landed on its oily surface, and died.”

There’s a lake in Russia (not far from the site of the Kyshtym disaster) that’s so polluted, you will die if you stand on its shore for an hour.

You won’t die right then, but the accumulated dose of radiation you receive in that hour will kill you over the course of a couple of days.

Butch Cassidy

January 18th, 2012
4:55 pm

Democrats=Liars – “Obama = Disaster”

You could be right, though you’d never guess it by looking at my investment portfolio.

josef

January 18th, 2012
4:56 pm

Democrats = Liars

“Obama is a traitor. He gives hundreds of millions of dollars to the PLO, Hamas, Hezbullah, and the Muslim Brotherhood thru the state department with Hillary Clinton’s help.”

Cite the source of this information please.

Granny Godzilla

January 18th, 2012
4:56 pm

From the FOE website:

Northern Alberta, the region where tar sands oil is extracted, is home to many indigenous populations. Important parts of their cultural traditions and livelihood are coming under attack because of tar sands operations. Communities living downstream from tailing ponds have seen spikes in rates of rare cancers, renal failure, lupus, and hyperthyroidism. In the lakeside village of Fort Chipewyan, for example, 100 of the town’s 1,200 residents have died from cancer.

more?

ok.

TransCanada already attempted to cut corners by seeking a safety waiver to build the pipeline with thinner-than-normal steel and to pump oil at higher-than-normal pressures. Thanks to the pressure exerted by Friends of the Earth and allies, the company withdrew its safety waiver application in August 2010.

The threat of spills remains. In summer 2010, a million gallons of tar sands oil poured into the Kalamazoo River in Michigan from a pipeline run by another Canadian company, Enbridge. The spill exposed residents to toxic chemicals, coated wildlife and has caused long-term damage to the local economy and ecosystem.

Heightening concerns, TransCanada’s Keystone I pipeline has spilled a dozen times in less than a year of operation, prompting a corrective action order from the Department of Transportation. Experts warn that the more acidic and corrosive consistency of the type of tar sands oil being piped into the U.S. makes spills more likely, and have joined the EPA in calling on the State Department to conduct a thorough study of these risks.

more?

sure. just for you

After traveling through the Keystone XL pipeline, tar sands oil would be brought to facilities in Texas to be further refined. Refining tar sands oil is dirtier than refining conventional oil, and results in higher emissions of toxic sulfur dioxide and nitrous oxide. These emissions cause smog and acid rain and contribute to respiratory diseases like asthma. Communities near the refineries where the Keystone XL pipeline would terminate, many of them low-income and communities of color, already live with dangerously high levels of air pollution. The Keystone XL pipeline would further exacerbate the heavy burden of pollution and environmental injustices these communities confront.

TaxPayer

January 18th, 2012
4:56 pm

The US did what! They exported refined oil products! Wow!

Paul

January 18th, 2012
4:57 pm

Jm

Thanks for the link. Off the top of my head, saying something is the preferred route does not mean it can be immediately approved. There’s still a ton of by-law requirements that have to be met, environmental impact statements, comment period from local governments, that kind of stuff. Suppose you were a homeowner along the route and one day the construction crew showed up, said ‘here’s your check, leave” and you said “but I didn’t have the opportunity to be heard?”

bill arp

January 18th, 2012
4:57 pm

How are the gas prices, by the way? Haven’t they come down a great bit since Obama took office? Which helps with the grocery bill, and practically everything else also. Thank you Mr. President for helping me and my middle class family on this very important matter!

philosopher

January 18th, 2012
4:58 pm

Oh, for real. You certainly don’t expect an admission that GB and Faux News came up with all that paranoid claptrap, do you?

Jm

January 18th, 2012
4:58 pm

Butch 4:55

Mine either

Buy our portfolios are being fed a steady diet of sugar water

The fundamentals aren’t there

Doggone/GA

January 18th, 2012
4:59 pm

“Oh, and about the Nuclear codes”

Based on the number of times fake “facts” are bandied about here as if they were actually true…there are some people around here who must be a con-man’s dream.