Mitt Romney and his ‘not very much’ problem
As an aside in acknowledging that he pays roughly 15 percent of his income in taxes, a lower share than many middle-class Americans, Mitt Romney also mentioned that he “gets speaker fees from time to time, but not very much.”
Campaign disclosure forms express that “not very much” in stark numerical terms: $374,000 in speaking fees from February 2010 to February 2011, when Romney ceased accepting paying gigs in order to run for president full time.
From Romney’s point of view, his description of that income is correct and understandable. If you have an estimated net worth of $270 million, $374,000 truly is “not very much,” a mere 0.14 percent of your wealth. On the other hand, from the point of view of most Americans, that same sum is really quite a lot. In fact, Romney’s income from speeches alone would put him in the fabled top 1 percent in terms of household income.
The issue is relevant not because it feeds some sort of voter envy over Romney’s wealth. It’s relevant in terms of perspective. Romney’s dismissal of $374,000 as “not very much,” when in fact it’s more than 99 percent of American households make each year, tells you a lot about how the world looks through his eyeballs. As the son of one of Detroit’s most powerful auto executives, and as a highly successful venture capitalist himself, he has experienced the world from a very different vantage point than most of his fellow Americans.
Does that matter? Well, the GOP critique of Barack Obama has focused on a claim that, raised partially overseas, he was not exposed to the full “American experience” and is thus less than fully American. He doesn’t understand us; he’s not one of us. That’s the crux of the whole “birther” phenomenon, as well as claims from the likes of Newt Gingrich that Obama is an “anti-colonialist” who somehow absorbed the political viewpoint of the foreign-born father that he almost never saw. It has even led black Americans as diverse in viewpoint as Cornel West and Herman Cain to question Obama’s authenticity as an American black man.
In a sense, Romney also grew up and continues to reside in a foreign land, a place with very different rules, customs and culture than most Americans experienced. It formed his world view in a way that he can never fully escape, in part because there is little evidence that he had tried. And on the campaign trail, that managerial instinct to focus on the numbers rather than the human impact reveals itself repeatedly.
It comes across, for example, when Romney tried to claim recently that he too has lived in fear of getting the pink slip, although his campaign later ducked questions about when that fabled time might have occurred. It was akin to John Kerry asking “who among us does not like NASCAR”? And when asked in Nevada — ground zero of the foreclosure boom — what should be done to address the housing crisis that continues to put hundreds of thousands of American families out of their homes, Romney’s blunt answer was “don’t try to stop the foreclosure process, let it run its course and bottom out.”
That is the viewpoint of a CEO or outside consultant who is trained to see workers as units of production, and desperate homeowners clinging to their property as an obstacle to efficient markets. Don’t get me wrong: There is a place, even a need, for such bottom-line attitudes in a capitalist system.
The question that voters have to answer in 2012 is whether that place is the White House.
– Jay Bookman
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564 comments Add your comment
Welcome to the Occupation
January 18th, 2012
10:18 am
Mitt Romney’s campaign is like one long George H. W. Bush in the supermarket experience. It’s very revealing.
mm
January 18th, 2012
10:19 am
Romney is the golden child of the 1 percent. Show your tax returns.
JF McNamara
January 18th, 2012
10:30 am
I doubt he’s even paying 15%. If he is, he’s paying too much and needs a better accountant. That’s probably why he’s waiting on this year’s return. He’ll then have a return where he pays that much, because he’s going to screw himself. My guess is that he’s paying around half that (7.5%).
Besides that, much of his money is offshore. I doubt he pays anything in taxes on that.
Grasshopper
January 18th, 2012
10:30 am
“It formed his world view in a way that he can never fully escape, in part because there is little evidence that he had tried.”
What does that mean? What is there to escape from?
Jay, do you ever tire of phoning in the ‘He’s rich and not like us’ crap?
Brad Steel
January 18th, 2012
10:31 am
The republicans have much more profound problems than a rich-guy nominee who operates like a capitalist rather than a populist.
It would be so refreshing to see Romeny step-up and say:
Yeah, I’m rich. So what? And I only pay 15% tax on the no-work-for-me dividends (note: it’s not “income” per se. It’s the “dividend tax”). It’s all that rich guys have pay. Paying more than 15% is for proles. Who do you think designed the tax code, you saps.
Martin the Calvinist
January 18th, 2012
10:31 am
I bet the dollar amount of his 15% is much, much more than the 15% paid by someone who made 50,000 dollars. The intellectual dishonesty that is being spread should stop. 15% of a million dollars is a whole lot more than 15% of 50,000 dollars.
md
January 18th, 2012
10:31 am
“what should be done to address the housing crisis that continues to put hundreds of thousands of American families out of their homes, Romney’s blunt answer was “don’t try to stop the foreclosure process, let it run its course and bottom out.” ”
Which is exactly the right course…….stalling the inevitable just creates more unintended consequences. Take the dang medicine and get rid of the sickness…………….
josef
January 18th, 2012
10:33 am
We have reached a point where only those with megabucks can even consider a run for President. Theis quibbling and posturing about who is more in touch with the real American is so much garbage. A pox on all their houses.
AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater
January 18th, 2012
10:34 am
In virtually every aspect of his public life, the man is a fraud.
Granted, many, if not most politicians probably are.
But his lifelong immersion in, love of and desire to further the Two Americas will ensure he is once again just a minor footnote in American history.
Oh and BTW, his dad was twice the man his son was. (Unfortunately ironic that he and Boy George share that trait…)
md
January 18th, 2012
10:34 am
“The intellectual dishonesty that is being spread should stop.”
The envy won’t allow that to happen……..it’s always about what the other guy does/doesn’t do. Very seldom about personal choices where one has to look within.
mm
January 18th, 2012
10:35 am
When are you rightwing fools going to stop defending the rich thinking they create jobs? Jobs are created by demand for a product. Demand is created when the middle class has money to spend.
Mary Elizabeth
January 18th, 2012
10:36 am
“Romney also grew up and continues to reside in a foreign land, a place with very different rules, customs and culture than most Americans experienced. It formed his world view in a way that he can never fully escape, in part because there is little evidence that he had tried.”
“(Romney’s) is the viewpoint of a CEO or outside consultant who is trained to see workers as units of production, and desperate homeowners clinging to their property as an obstacle to efficient markets.”
——————————————————————————-
FDR and JFK were products of very wealthy families, also, but their visions for America, and for Americans, had more breadth, depth, and humanity than does Romney’s. They would never have viewed workers as simply “units of production,” but instead as breathing, living human beings,
as full of humanity as they.
Is Romney’s place in the White House? My answer is no.
scrappy
January 18th, 2012
10:37 am
“Romney’s blunt answer was “don’t try to stop the foreclosure process, let it run its course and bottom out.”
Akin to:
“Are there no work houses? Are there no poor houses?” – E. Scrooge
I don’t believe the person sitting in the white house should be able to so easily remove the people element from his policies. That person needs to know how his/hers policies affect real Americans & let that weigh in on the decision making process.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
January 18th, 2012
10:38 am
Well, I know that when I get to the point of getting almost 400,000 bucks for people to hear me talk, it’ll be alot more than not very much. Matter of fact, I’ll be moving out of Simpsons Trailer Park and giving the finger to just about everybody. Except maybe my buddies Jim Earl and Joe Bill.
But that’s just me. It’s all in how you look at things. I mean, I could get mighty use to being slipped a check for maybe $20,000 for showing up and saying a few words someplace. I’ll try not to mess my pants when it happens.
Have a good Hump Day everybody.
md
January 18th, 2012
10:38 am
“Jobs are created by demand for a product. Demand is created when the middle class has money to spend.”
Here Am…….even mm can see it……although I don’t think he really sees what he thinks he sees. Yep, that demand is why those jobs aren’t in this country.
Odis
January 18th, 2012
10:39 am
Mitt Romney is simply out of touch with 99% of Americans. If you are not part of the top 1% then Mitt Romney can’t relate to your day to day life or the issues that matter to you most.
Jay
January 18th, 2012
10:39 am
I now see where that noted liberal, Rick Santorum, is making much the same point:
“The thing that is a difference … is to make a statement that I made a couple of extra bucks giving speeches, when that couple extra bucks is over $300,000,” Santorum said. “I mean, that to me, says a little bit more about Gov. Romney and his connection with the American people than his tax rate, which is driven by a tax code.”
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
10:39 am
God, you seriously can’t make this stuff up. You have a candidate trying to run for President under the guise of “Joe Everyman”. Hey, I’m just like you, so what if I made 7.5 times the median income of the average American worker, so what if I pay less in taxes than the average american worker, so what if I never had to want for anything due to my family fortune, so what if I never lived with the threat of a possible pink slip, so what if I travel by private jet. I know your pain America, because I’M JUST LIKE YOU.
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
10:40 am
md – “Very seldom about personal choices where one has to look within.”
Wow, so Mitt chose his parents?
CJ
January 18th, 2012
10:41 am
Piggybacking on JF McNamara’s comment above, income from investments (dividends and capital gains) and inheritances should be taxed at the exact same rates as income from work…no more and no less. It’s true that investors are job creators. But consumers are job creators too. And, by the way, workers are “return on investment” creators.
This is usually the point at which somebody jumps in to make the double taxation argument. Yes, it’s true that inheritance and dividend income is double taxed (or can be). But that’s true for all sources of income, including income from work. The money that ends up in our paychecks was taxed when it was received by our customers or our employers customers. It’s ALL double taxed..and triple taxed…an taxed again as it passes from one individual or business to another. So, there’s no reason that dividend and inheritance income should get special treatment by our tax code.
TaxPayer
January 18th, 2012
10:41 am
Aside from his religion, how is Mitt not the perfect Republican.
Jay
January 18th, 2012
10:42 am
RB, in 2010 Obama’s effective tax rate was 23 percent.
getalife
January 18th, 2012
10:44 am
The gop know willard will lose and the newt would lose worse.
AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater
January 18th, 2012
10:44 am
For “hump day” RC,
(Don’t worry, as things usually go here, this one ain’t all that weird! Just some harmonious power pop.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oBWiakPlAM
Aquagirl
January 18th, 2012
10:44 am
Very seldom about personal choices where one has to look within.
Yeah, those losers not choosing rich and powerful parents should accept the consequences. Chose the wrong vajay to fall out of? Your fault, peon. Get back to work.
md
January 18th, 2012
10:44 am
Akin to:
““Are there no work houses? Are there no poor houses?” – E. Scrooge
I don’t believe the person sitting in the white house should be able to so easily remove the people element from his policies. That person needs to know how his/hers policies affect real Americans & let that weigh in on the decision making process.”
Hmmm…….people element??
Funny how the people some see are just those on the front lines……those folks that are not paying their mortgages certainly aren’t thinking about the people that are forced to pick up the tab…….but in some eyes, those people aren’t even in the equation.
And how many will lose their own houses because they can’t afford the extra cost of paying for others? You think the money owed just evaporates into thin air? No, everybody else gets stuck with the bill.
carlosgvv
January 18th, 2012
10:44 am
Yes, that’s just what we need in the White House. A predatory capitalist CEO. And, yes, that’s just what millions of simple voters would gladly love to see. And, if if seems to some of you that a good Christian just could not be this kind of Capitalist, be assured the high priests of the Mormon Church are behind McRomney 100%. (You’re not so simple as to believe money dosen’t talk with Christian leaders, are you?)
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2012
10:45 am
It was akin to John Kerry asking “who among us does not like NASCAR”?
Nitpicky point, but you do realize that Kerry never actually said that, right?
CJ
January 18th, 2012
10:45 am
Santorum said. “I mean, that to me, says a little bit more about Gov. Romney and his connection with the American people than his tax rate, which is driven by a tax code.”
Actually, Romney’s lower tax rate as nothing to do with profits from investments and is the result of a “small loopchasm” in our tax code. A loopchasm that Romney has no intention of changing.
While he’s at it, Romney’s tax plan lowers taxes for the rich and raises taxes on the poor. That’s the bottom line.
moonbat betty
January 18th, 2012
10:46 am
A billion dollars says that Obama has a chance at winning this election.
Mick
January 18th, 2012
10:46 am
Class warfare, class envy, all terms that the repub sheep still hear and believe. The fact of the matter is the war has already been won, repeatedly by the rich. What of class envy? Most people would be ecstatic to knock down 100k a year. Must be nice to consider over 350k just piddly winks…
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
10:48 am
Mick – “Must be nice to consider over 350k just piddly winks…”
In Mitts defense, he did earn that money by speaking at luncheons. (eye roll)
Paul
January 18th, 2012
10:49 am
Wasn’t too long ago we had people on this blog demanding more affordable housing in the face of skyrocketing housing costs, like happened in Arizona. Then the market crashed, prices began coming down to more reasonable levels, and those same people want government intervention to stabilize housing prices at higher than market levels…..
Then there was this piece that was reprinted in many newspapers late last year:
“Soon after Mitt Romney handed out eye-popping bonuses to top performers at his private equity firm in the early 1990s, a young employee invited him to ride in his brand-new toy — a $90,000 Porsche 911 Carrera. Mr. Romney was entranced by the sleek, supercharged vehicle: at the end of a spin around downtown Boston, he turned to the employee, Marc Wolpow, and marveled, “Boy, I really wish I could have one of these things.”
Mr. Wolpow was dumbfounded. “You could have 12 of them,” he recalled thinking to himself.
But Mr. Romney had frequently driven an inexpensive, domestic stalwart that looked out of place in the company parking lot — a Chevrolet Caprice station wagon with red vinyl seats and a banged-up front end.
It was a stark sign of the tug of war, still evident in Mr. Romney’s life, between an instinctive, at times comical frugality, and an embrace of the lavish lifestyle that accompanied his swelling Wall Street fortune.
..
He has acquired six-figure warmblood horses for his wife, Ann, yet plays golf with clubs from Kmart. And he has owned a series of multimillion-dollar homes, from a lakefront compound in New Hampshire to a beach house in California, but once rented a U-Haul to move his family’s belongings himself between two of the vacation retreats.
Friends, co-workers and relatives describe Mr. Romney, now seeking the Republican presidential nomination, as something of a paradox: a man exceedingly deft at and devoted to making money who has never become entirely comfortable with his own wealth.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/11/us/politics/two-mitt-romneys-wealthy-man-thrifty-habits.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater
January 18th, 2012
10:49 am
Speaking of authentic black men, I am really starting to miss Herman’s foot in mouth disease escapades on the campaign trail.
Is his campaign still suspended?
Jefferson
January 18th, 2012
10:49 am
Martin a fair share is not the amount paid, when income is fair taxes should be fair. You rich kids and money lovers are are alike.
CJ
January 18th, 2012
10:49 am
By the way, everybody should know their own effective federal tax rate. I’m in the 25 percent tax bracket, but my effective federal income tax rate in 2010 was just over 13 percent. If you include payroll taxes, then my total effective federal tax rate was 20 percent.
Mick
January 18th, 2012
10:50 am
butch
The system is rigged and people are waking up to that fact. Where do we go from here?
Look before I leap...
January 18th, 2012
10:51 am
Martin the Calvinist
January 18th, 2012
10:31 am
I bet the dollar amount of his 15% is much, much more than the 15% paid by someone who made 50,000 dollars. The intellectual dishonesty that is being spread should stop. 15% of a million dollars is a whole lot more than 15% of 50,000 dollars.
Except that the guy making 50K (assuming he is single) paid closer to 25% than 15%.
I don’t begrudge Romney paying only what the law says he should pay.
I don’t pity the hypothetical 50K earner either.
I think Jay’s whole point is:
It’s very telling about how a man views the world around him when he says 374K in income is “not very much”. I think its also telling that a man who earns 9M/year in investment income also charges speaking fees. Some might say “Hey, I got my stake, maybe its time to give something back to the system that made me rich”. I don’t know, maybe Romney tosses a freebie out once in a while.
Romney may be smart and a financial genius, but he is not a man who shares my values. He doesn’t even KNOW my values. I am one of the little people, completely invisible to him.
md
January 18th, 2012
10:51 am
“Wow, so Mitt chose his parents?”
Which is NOT a choice……and never will be. So lose that canard and concentrate on the choices we do make. We choose EVERYTHING we do………..we even get to choose to bitch about the choices we made of don’t make…….makes us feel better.
And yes, there are many born into less fortunate environments………but don’t degrade the many that made the necessary choices to get themselves out……………society provides a good starting point (education) for all and 1/3 currently choose not to utilize the opportunity.
ty webb
January 18th, 2012
10:51 am
if a sheep calls another sheep a “sheep” in the forest, and know one’s there to hear it…?
CJ
January 18th, 2012
10:52 am
…and yes,… I’d be happy to pay the higher tax rates that I would have paid during the Clinton years.
Mr. President, raise my taxes!
jconservative
January 18th, 2012
10:52 am
It is the perception of Romney by the voters that will matter.
Politically Romney just stuck his foot in his mouth. No one in his team suggested that he call $374,000 “not very much”. Romney did that on his own.
Romney is a polished business executive. He is not a polished politician. He is a lot like Newt, unable to stay on message and speaks before thinking.
Republicans voters will make a decision in the next few weeks on who will carry their flag. They have a tough choice.
Romney just showed cracks in his armour.
Newt cannot even manage something as simple as marriage yet wants to try and manage an entire nation. God forbid!
Santorum lost his re-election bid in Pennsylvania to the most liberal person in that state, and by 18%!
Paul is not running for president; he is running for an idea.
Good luck Republicans.
Paul
January 18th, 2012
10:53 am
Butch
“You have a candidate trying to run for President under the guise of “Joe Everyman”. Hey, I’m just like you, ”
When has he ever portrayed anything like that? Maybe he has, I hear it a lot, but no one’s pointed me to a pattern of his behavior or statements that would support the assertion.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
10:54 am
how many will lose their own houses because they can’t afford the extra cost of paying for others? You think the money owed just evaporates into thin air? No, everybody else gets stuck with the bill
Shall we ask the Mortgage Bankers Assoc after their strategic default? How about Romney after all those bankruptcies after Bain drew out their fees and saddled the company with debt? How about we ask the many many Americans who are doing everything possible to remain in their homes and just some slight tweaks to the current lower interest rates and forgiveness of late fees would allow them to remain in their homes and keep their mortgage current but the lenders won’t talk modifications because they are not in default yet and even when they are, you go through months of paper work and resubmittals. Shall we talk about the MERS fraud and letting the “system” be worked fraudulently by banks. I suggest that there are a number of people who are as clueless as Romney as to the realities that makes this housing cycle worse.
ty webb
January 18th, 2012
10:55 am
“Mr. President, raise my taxes!”
exactly! Bravo! Mr. President, raise CJ’s taxes!
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
10:56 am
Mick – “butch
The system is rigged and people are waking up to that fact. Where do we go from here?”
Not sure. In all honesty, I derive most of my income from investments, so I actually fall into Mitts tax bracket. I also came from a wealthy family, so I’m not immune to where a lucky start can take you. My problem with Mitt is that he is completely out of touch, and honestly belives that the country can be run like a business. I wouldn’t scream into Harlem in my new Jag, and then get out and start pandering to the locals about how I understand the plight of the poor black man. To me, Mitt is doing the exact same thing hoping that the sheep truly are that stupid.
Paul
January 18th, 2012
10:57 am
Okay, it’s been about 15 minutes since Jay posted “RB, in 2010 Obama’s effective tax rate was 23 percent.”
I’m interested in hearing from the stalwart progressives if they think that’s enough, if they think that’s fair. It’s 8 points up the scale from Mitt. Is that far enough up?
$374,000 in speaking fees
January 18th, 2012
10:58 am
Wish that I made that much in annual income last year!
josef
January 18th, 2012
10:58 am
“We do not propose to say that there shall be no rich men. We do not ask to divide the wealth. We only propose that, when one man gets more than he and his children and children’s children can spend or use in their lifetimes, that then we shall say that such person has his share. That means that a few million dollars is the limit to what any one man can own.”
Where’s Huey when we need him?
Mick
January 18th, 2012
11:00 am
josef
What are you proposing? Envy, envy envy???
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
11:01 am
Paul – “When has he ever portrayed anything like that?”
When he makes statements like ” I know what it’s like to be unemployed. Right now I dont have a job either” or ” I’ll bet you $10,000.00″ or “I speaker fees from time to time, but not very much.” (Of course his speaker fees are 7.5 times more than what the median income is for the average employee). Things like that.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
11:01 am
Paul — “I’m interested in hearing from the stalwart progressives if they think that’s enough, if they think that’s fair. It’s 8 points up the scale from Mitt. Is that far enough up?”
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/top-rate.jpg
USinUK
January 18th, 2012
11:02 am
“Wish that I made that much in annual income last year!”
well, become a failed GOP candidate and you, too, can rake in the big bucks … (just ask Snow Snooki how well the speaker circuit is treating her)
harvey
January 18th, 2012
11:02 am
Yet another whine about wealth envy. Too bad he pays only 15%, but those are the tax rules. Your hero, Buffet only pays 15% too. He wants to reform the tax code, as does all the Republican contenders to raise this amount and lower the income tax. I don’t understand why, however, people who do save and get capital gains should not get a tax break. They are saving and investing in companies and thereby growing the economy, rather than simply consuming all they make and growing fat.
Welcome to the Occupation
January 18th, 2012
11:02 am
In Mitts defense, he did earn that money by speaking at luncheons. (eye roll)
Why he actually had to get out of bed for that, and presumably even had to fire up one of his jets and ride for a few hours (corporate big whigs still haven’t come up with a way to shrink time and space yet).
Mary Eliz: “FDR and JFK were products of very wealthy families, also, but their visions for America, and for Americans, had more breadth, depth, and humanity than does Romney’s”
At the end of the 19th and early 20th C capitalism was under fire from many sides — it was very much in doubt whether it would survive at all. And unlike today, there had not been an relentless propaganda offensive to rehabilitate capitalism: there was Father Coughlin, but there was also Huey Long and a vibrant communist and socialist movement in this country. So the progressive movement eventually took shape as a bipartisan attempt to co-opt all of this energy in the name of shoring up the very viability of the system and to stave off total revolution. That’s all that figures like the two Roosevelts were really about in the end. Ultimately a new social pact was forged that consisted of certain concessions – a limited social safety net and protection for workers – in return for fierce purging of communist elements in unions in the North and in the South it consisted of limited acceptance of these reforms on the strict condition that they be denied to blacks, thus perpetuating a quasi-apartheid social order there that continued until that entire system broke down in the 50s and 60s, at which point the whole arrangement collapsed and gave us the current Southern flip to the GOP. Anyway, the bottom line is that in the days of the Roosevelts there was at least a certain sense of noblesse oblige among the patrician class in this country, however grudging and cynical, that did nonetheless prove workable. Romney is a great example of how far we are today from those days — nowadays there is no such attempt by the ruling class to offer such a compromise on the horizon. As a result, I think we can expect great turbulence and a further slide into banana republic status in the future.
SoGaVet
January 18th, 2012
11:03 am
Martin the Calvinist
January 18th, 2012
10:31 am
So somehow because your 15% is more than the amount on which my 28% is even calculated – in terms of actual dollars, it be enough?
As a Calvinist, if you believe in tithing…At what point does the amount you pay exempt you from the 10% thing?
What we’re talking about here is proportional fairness. If 23%-25%-28% is my level of pain to support the common good, why should the rich also pay that proportion of their income and share that level of pain – regarless of how many dollars that actually equals?
harvey
January 18th, 2012
11:03 am
PS: HE is Exactly the kind of president we need. Yes, if those houses were foreclosed three years ago, we would see a reviving housing industry right now.
Quagmire
January 18th, 2012
11:03 am
Paid for Speaking Fees: I speak at the local liquor store all the time, especially on Sundays. I never get a fee for my speeches. Maybe I should ask for the money before I start drinking.
Look before I leap...
January 18th, 2012
11:04 am
CJ
January 18th, 2012
10:41 am
Piggybacking on JF McNamara’s comment above, income from investments (dividends and capital gains) and inheritances should be taxed at the exact same rates as income from work…no more and no less. It’s true that investors are job creators. But consumers are job creators too. And, by the way, workers are “return on investment” creators
Not all investors are job creators. As a matter of fact, very few are. The capital generated by the original IPO flows to the company and can be used to expand and create jobs. After that, with a few exceptions, the stock trading is simply a wealth creation mechanism for the investor.
Kind of like a bunch of kids playing marbles – someone may walk away with most of the marbles, but the only positive impact to the economy was when the marbles were originally purchased.
SoGaVet
January 18th, 2012
11:05 am
Or if we had a well regulated system, maybe they would never have had to be in a position to consider forclosure. (meaning they wouldn’t have gotten the loan in the first place)
ty webb
January 18th, 2012
11:05 am
josef,
great, so when can we expect obama to appoint a “fair share” czar?…or should it be a “Shouldn’t get more than he and his children can spend or use in their lifetimes” Super Commission…okay, that’s one’s a little long…instead we’ll just go the SGMTHAHCCSPOUITL Super Commission.
AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater
January 18th, 2012
11:07 am
Since 1979, the average income of the top 1% has increased 275%, while average overall wages are basically unchanged.
I trust that even you Wall Street sycophants understand the meaning of the word unchanged.
In the last 10 years, the trend has accelerated even more. Between 2002 and 2006 an astounding 75% of all economic growth was captured by the top 1% of income earners.
So while you self-destructive panty waists sit by and concoct idiotic wholesale slurs, we are gonna continue to take this fight to the plutocrats and the oligarchs.
We do not need you albatrosses to finally take this righteous stand.
To paraphrase a famous French chick, you can eat cake…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
11:07 am
Why I am sure that all those fees paid to politicians on the speaking circuit are for their wonderful speaking abilities and NONE of it, I repeat, NONE, is to have any influence or to open the door for influencing.
And since USinUK has unfairly attacked Snowbillie Snooki (
) let’s be clear, she earns those big fees because she makes notes on her hands and we don’t have to rent no teleprompter.
Paul
January 18th, 2012
11:10 am
Butch
Okay, two examples from what Jay wrote and the debate thing that portrayed the ridiculousness of the situation. For me, that doesn’t meet the standard of a pattern of Romney portraying himself as just an average guy.
And just what does it mean to say Romney’s trying to portray himself as “Joe Everyman, just like you”? Look at this blog. Is he trying to say he’s just like Butch? Getalife? RB? Mick? Redneck Convert? Bill Orvis White? Jay? That’s kind of a broad brush people are trying to put in his hand.
md
January 18th, 2012
11:11 am
“I suggest that there are a number of people who are as clueless as Romney as to the realities that makes this housing cycle worse.”
Yep….and he just posted @ 10:54.
There are exceptions to every situation……citing them does nothing but shift the focus of the real problem………folks for the most part bought more than they could afford……..and that isn’t restricted to on “class”.
And good job cherry picking the info on Bain…….one might want to look at their overall performance vs focusing on the few companies that went bankrupt…….but that wouldn’t fit the agenda.
The info shows many more companies still doing their thing vs the ones that didn’t make it. I might listen to some of the bs you spew if Bain had a history of taking a majority of their investments into bankruptcy……….but that history doesn’t exist.
Paul
January 18th, 2012
11:11 am
Butch
That wasn’t directed so much at you. I’m just trying to understand all these generalized comments I keep hearing.
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
11:12 am
So, just out of curiosity, where exactly does Obama’s income put him on that scale? I’m guessing the same argument Jay just used a disqualifier for Romney could have been used as a disqualifier for Obama. I mean, I’m guessing, that before he became President, he would have laughed at the idea that he only made $375,000 in a year. Heck, even now, just for being President he gets $400,000. And while $375,000 might seem like a lot, how much do you think that buys living in New York or Boston? A lot less than living in Atlanta. Yeah, he’s rich, but what does that matter in the long run?
USinUK
January 18th, 2012
11:12 am
“And since USinUK has unfairly attacked Snowbillie Snooki (
) let’s be clear, she earns those big fees because she makes notes on her hands and we don’t have to rent no teleprompter.”
and, hey, let’s be honest … Perry should have taken a page from her system for preparation (ummm … Agriculture … ummmm … the SEC … and … ahhhh … ooops)
Talking Head
January 18th, 2012
11:13 am
It seems Jay is taking orders from the White House to promote wealth envy and continue the class warfare rhetoric.
Jay, how much did Obama make in book sales last year? $10 million?
Paul
January 18th, 2012
11:14 am
Butch
Thinking about it, and what some have posted about Pres Obama’s life (lived with wealthy grandparents, private school, Ivy Leage university that paved the way for a corporate career, millionaire early on), I’ll offer it’s not so much about how much $$$$ one has inherited or earned.
It’s more about understanding what middle America goes thru. And even if it’s not fully understood, is there an attitude of empathy?
AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater
January 18th, 2012
11:14 am
Quagmire, one of the great sites in London is the historic and famous Speaker’s Corner in Hyde Park.
A veritable laugh riot of the Jimmy Swaggert types along with every other pet issue spokesman you have never heard of.
Talking Head
January 18th, 2012
11:15 am
“PS: HE is Exactly the kind of president we need. Yes, if those houses were foreclosed three years ago, we would see a reviving housing industry right now.”
Yup
USinUK
January 18th, 2012
11:15 am
“I’m guessing the same argument Jay just used a disqualifier for Romney could have been used as a disqualifier for Obama”
I think the key differentiator is that Mittens seems to think that $375K JUST for speaking – not his entire salary – is “not much” …
that doesn’t bode well for middle-income Americans …
Adam
January 18th, 2012
11:15 am
That place is NOT in the White House. The government is not a business, and the constituents are not “units of production.”
AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater
January 18th, 2012
11:16 am
Romney’s wealth is not the issue.
That he wants to continue the massive economic injustice in this hijacked system is…
md
January 18th, 2012
11:16 am
“We do not propose to say that there shall be no rich men. We do not ask to divide the wealth. We only propose that, when one man gets more than he and his children and children’s children can spend or use in their lifetimes, that then we shall say that such person has his share. That means that a few million dollars is the limit to what any one man can own.”
Jo……except the dems don’t even believe that one………hence part of the problem. Maybe if they were true to their convictions vs forcing everybody to join their cause prior to being true to their convictions…………..
Adam
January 18th, 2012
11:17 am
Talking Head: Jay, how much did Obama make in book sales last year? $10 million?
Dopes Obama claim that’s not a lot of money? Does he make the case that the taxes he pays are in any way fair?
Now ask yourself the same of Romney.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
11:17 am
citing them does nothing but shift the focus of the real problem………folks for the most part bought more than they could afford
Not intended to be a factual statement….. but it does fit in with the bumper sticker mentality of simple “causes” make blame easier and provides for simple “solutions” lacking in reality.
Look before I leap...
January 18th, 2012
11:18 am
Talking Head
January 18th, 2012
11:13 am
It seems Jay is taking orders from the White House to promote wealth envy and continue the class warfare rhetoric.
Jay, how much did Obama make in book sales last year? $10 million?
Not hardly. 2010 tax return for the Obama’s shows about $1.7M AGI. That would include his 400K POTUS salary.
josef
January 18th, 2012
11:19 am
MICK
January 18th, 2012
11:00 am
josef
What are you proposing? Envy, envy envy???
******
What?
http://www.geauxto.com/louisiana/id16.htm
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
11:19 am
USinUK – It is all a matter of perception. I don’t give two sh*ts what he made last year. It really doesn’t matter to me. I don’t care what he paid in taxes last year. I care what I made, and I care how much I had to pay in taxes. That’s about as far as it goes on the caring how much someone made scale. For me anyway. Oh, and I also don’t care that he doesn’t think it is that much. It doesn’t change anything really.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
11:19 am
folks for the most part bought more than they could afford
Got anything to back that up besides feelings and the one person you saw buying steaks with a food stamp card?
Libertarian
January 18th, 2012
11:20 am
“As an aside in acknowledging that he pays roughly 15 percent of his income in taxes, a lower share than many middle-class Americans”
And that’s perfectly legal. Hence why many conservatives want tax reform. All democrats want is it raise the current rates. That’s not going to solve the problem.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
11:21 am
PS: HE is Exactly the kind of president we need. Yes, if those houses were foreclosed three years ago, we would see a reviving housing industry right now
Posting nonsense and calling it fact does not make it so….. why I bet we’d have unicorns now too!
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2012
11:22 am
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH…this needs to be talked about ONLY in quiet rooms….
That man is sooooo out of touch.
carlosgvv
January 18th, 2012
11:22 am
(ir)Rational – 11:19
Spoken like a true me me me me me me Captialist.
Mitt Romney and His Donation
January 18th, 2012
11:22 am
to the Mormon Church
http://news.yahoo.com/mitt-romney-sent-millions-mormon-church-193106008–abc-news.html
Libertarian
January 18th, 2012
11:22 am
“As the son of one of Detroit’s most powerful auto executives, and as a highly successful venture capitalist himself, he has experienced the world from a very different vantage point than most of his fellow Americans.”
Well, screw it…lets find a poor unemployed person and make them president.
josef
January 18th, 2012
11:23 am
ty, md
“They’ve got a set of Republican waiters on one side and a set of Democratic waiters on the other side, but no matter which set of waiters brings you the dish, the legislative grub is all prepared in the same Wall Street kitchen.”
–Huey P
Adam
January 18th, 2012
11:24 am
Libertarian: If conservatives in general “just want tax reform” rather than just lowering rates on the top and raising them on the bottom, please tell me why they are not putting forward any proposals to do that.
I have previously shown you many ways in which the Democrats have put forward proposals that involve BOTH tax rate adjustments AND other stuff, and you simply dismissed all of it, saying something like “well, aside from those things you mentioned I’m still right.”
md
January 18th, 2012
11:24 am
“In the last 10 years, the trend has accelerated even more. Between 2002 and 2006 an astounding 75% of all economic growth was captured by the top 1% of income earners.”
See Am……you post this kind of bs without defining the equation……and then call others ignorant to the facts.
Any measure of income/growth/wealth is but a snapshot of what is going on in this country at a given point in time TOTALLY discounting any variable outside our borders……….
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
11:25 am
carlos – Thanks. I’ll take that as a compliment because I would consider myself a capitalist, and I am most definitely in this for myself. As a matter of fact, I might feel bad for you if you were poor, living on the streets and going hungry, but I’m not going to feel bad enough to quit doing what I’m doing to try and get ahead. Definitely not going to advocate the idea that the government needs to take more of the money I’ve worked for to support you. But that’s just me. I realize I’m opening myself up to criticism for my views, but I don’t care.
Look before I leap...
January 18th, 2012
11:25 am
Libertarian
January 18th, 2012
11:20 am
“As an aside in acknowledging that he pays roughly 15 percent of his income in taxes, a lower share than many middle-class Americans”
And that’s perfectly legal. Hence why many conservatives want tax reform. All democrats want is it raise the current rates. That’s not going to solve the problem.
ahhh, but for the good ole days. Like back in the 50’s when the top tax rates were about 80%.
Under Eisenhower
A Republican
Why? We needed to pay for two wars and heavily invest in America’s infrastructure.
The rates finally came down to more sensible levels under Kennedy and Johnson (both of whom I believe were Democrats)
Adam
January 18th, 2012
11:26 am
Libertarian: Well, screw it…lets find a poor unemployed person and make them president
Is that like “Even if you tax people at 100% it won’t solve anythiiiiiiiiiiing (whine)”?
Going to the complete opposite extreme of whatever thing you think people are being extreme about doesn’t help you make a real solution.
Libertarian
January 18th, 2012
11:26 am
Note to Jay, Obama is rich too. All of our presidents are wealthy and entitled…especially the liberal God JFK and his corrupt entitled family.
RB from Gwinnett
January 18th, 2012
11:26 am
Jay – “RB, in 2010 Obama’s effective tax rate was 23 percent.”
What was his secretary’s effective rate, Jay?
And how much did he pay over and above what the tax code requires in order to do more of his “fair share”?
Talking Head
January 18th, 2012
11:26 am
“Not hardly. 2010 tax return for the Obama’s shows about $1.7M AGI. That would include his 400K POTUS salary”
Well according to Jay, that 400K POTUS salary alone puts O in the 1% category. He’s the 1%! blah blah blah
Paul
January 18th, 2012
11:26 am
“As an aside in acknowledging that he pays roughly 15 percent of his income in taxes, a lower share than many middle-class Americans”
Here we go again. So Pres Obama had an effective rate of 23 percent. Is that comparable to many middle-class Americans?
Which leads to the question, should someone who earns nearly $2 million in income pay comparable to many middle-class Americans?
Now add into the mix Pres Obama likely sees this as not equitable and wants people in his category to pay more……
AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater
January 18th, 2012
11:27 am
Since1971, the average American family has seen almost NO financial benefit from their own rising productivity.
And you bootlicking clowns are JUST NOW even beginning to awaken to the devastating consequences of this???
Who knows? In another forty years you may actually deem it worth doing something about…
md
January 18th, 2012
11:28 am
“folks for the most part bought more than they could afford
Got anything to back that up besides feelings and the one person you saw buying steaks with a food stamp card?”
Ummm. yep……..they are called foreclosures……..which means whoever it is/was doesn’t have the money to pay the bill.
If they could afford them, they’d have the money to pay the bill………pretty simple concept.
And Adam……..mortgages are choices……for all of us. Gambles too……..
Adam
January 18th, 2012
11:29 am
Libertarian: All of our presidents are wealthy and entitled…especially the liberal God JFK and his corrupt entitled family.
And every single one looked down on the little people, calling them jealous.
Revisionist history is great isn’t it?
Mary Elizabeth
January 18th, 2012
11:29 am
Welcome to the Occupation @11:02 a.m.
(1) “Anyway, the bottom line is that in the days of the Roosevelts there was at least a certain sense of noblesse oblige among the patrician class in this country, however grudging and cynical, that did nonetheless prove workable.”
————————————————————-
When I wrote FDR and JFK’s had visions of more “breadth, depth, and humanity” than Romey’s, I was speaking of them as unique individuals, with their separate and unique perceptions, and not as representatives of the “patrician class” which practiced “noblisse oblige” from a programmed responsibility to duty and honor.
==========================================
(2) “Romney is a great example of how far we are today from those days — nowadays there is no such attempt by the ruling class to offer such a compromise on the horizon. As a result, I think we can expect great turbulence and a further slide into banana republic status in the future.”
—————————————————-
Power corrupts. . .
Like Abraham Lincoln, we must never become cynical in the face of our times and in the face of our particular adversities, but we must, instead, continue to believe that “the people” will rise up and claim, again, their rightful inheritance to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” as citizens of this great nation, founded by outstanding men of vision.
Matti
January 18th, 2012
11:29 am
Libertarian: “Well, screw it…lets find a poor unemployed person and make them president.”
Hey, I know! How about we elect Presidents who came from humble, common beginnings, and worked hard to make himself successful? You know the whole bootstrap path to the American dream thing! The values of hard work and perseverance! We can respect somebody like that! (Unless, like Bill Clinton or Barack Obama, he runs as a Democrat, and then the Republicans have to backtrack on the importance of those values in favor of the silver spoon kids… as usual.)
Paul
January 18th, 2012
11:29 am
Donation 11:22
What’s your point? That millionaires shouldn’t contribute significantly to the church to which they belong?
So it’s okay for wealthy Catholic politicians to donate significantly to the Catholic Church?
Same for Baptists and other protestants?
Or our Muslim Congressman?
What’s your point?
Look before I leap...
January 18th, 2012
11:30 am
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
11:25 am
carlos – Thanks. I’ll take that as a compliment because I would consider myself a capitalist, and I am most definitely in this for myself. As a matter of fact, I might feel bad for you if you were poor, living on the streets and going hungry, but I’m not going to feel bad enough to quit doing what I’m doing to try and get ahead. Definitely not going to advocate the idea that the government needs to take more of the money I’ve worked for to support you. But that’s just me. I realize I’m opening myself up to criticism for my views, but I don’t care.
Pretty much mirrors the thinking of ole King Louis and Marie and look what happened to them.
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
11:33 am
Look before I leap… – Yeah, doubt that’s going to happen today, but you’re welcome to try if you would like. Better bring a lot of friends, cause you’re not going to succeed otherwise.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
11:33 am
Libertarian: To drive the point home about Demcorats proposing not just rate changes, but actual REFORM, here’s something you should look at (kind of an overview) of the last Democrat supercommittee proposal that was rejected because it included…. wait for it…. tax reform:
http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/SuperComDems.pdf
A short description I found on this: “$2.3 trillion deficit-reduction package, split between spending cuts and tax increases. The new revenue would include about $300 billion to $350 billion in savings from attacking a specific set of tax breaks, including those going to oil and gas companies and ethanol producers. The remaining $650 billion in revenue would come through a future process of broad-based tax reform that would cap the individual tax rate at 35 percent—instead of letting it rise to 39.5 percent when the Bush tax cuts expire—and enact corporate tax reform. ”
Now, stop lying and saying the Democrats only want to raise tax rates.
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2012
11:34 am
I’m interested in hearing from the stalwart progressives if they think that’s enough, if they think that’s fair. It’s 8 points up the scale from Mitt. Is that far enough up?
Since you asked, and I might qualify as a stalwart progressive–sounds ok to me. (I’d probably have a higher rate kick in at income above, oh, say $370,000 or so per year.)
ty webb
January 18th, 2012
11:35 am
“Who knows? In another forty years you may actually deem it worth doing something about…”
yeah, like camp out on the street, defecate in public, rape other squatters, etc., etc. All the while providing cover for a “hope and change” president who is the biggest tool of “wall st.” in the history of tools…that worked out so well the first time around, except 40 years from now, maybe it’ll be the robots that are occupying…and by “robots” I mean the literal kind, as opposed to the present wealth envy “robots” currently stinking the place up.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
11:37 am
md: If they could afford them, they’d have the money to pay the bill………pretty simple concept.
Ignoring entirely the reasons why someone might suddenly be unable to afford a mortgage, and also ignoring the many foreclosures that happened due to bank legal trickery/thievery (such as foreclosing on houses the bank doesn’t even own, or foreclosing on houses without notice, etc etc).
Not so simple after all, is it?
USinUK
January 18th, 2012
11:38 am
“(Unless, like Bill Clinton or Barack Obama, he runs as a Democrat, and then the Republicans have to backtrack on the importance of those values in favor of the silver spoon kids… as usual.)”
well said!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
11:38 am
Ummm. yep……..they are called foreclosures……..which means whoever it is/was doesn’t have the money to pay the bill.
Well it seems that someone has confused the existence of a foreclosure as “evidence” that they “bought more than they could afford” or that it was “the real problem”. Foreclosures happen for a variety of reasons. Someone making a $1 million can certainly afford a $500k house. However if their company goes bankrupt after they bought it because the entire housing market collapsed and there were no loans for people to buy houses and then they lost there house to foreclosure, the problem was not “affording” at time of purchase.
Can we have some “choice” of honest discussion and NOT bumper sticker oversimplifications and “evidence” that is meaningless for the proposition cited.
AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater
January 18th, 2012
11:39 am
Like Abraham Lincoln, we must never become cynical in the face of our times and in the face of our particular adversities, but we must, instead, continue to believe that “the people” will rise up and claim, again, their rightful inheritance to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” as citizens of this great nation, founded by outstanding men of vision.
Selah.
We cannot, we must not, if for no other reason than our posterity, allow this Two Americas to go forward any more.
And if as my hero wrote that means blood must be spilled, I’ve lived one helluva life and I’m fully prepared to give up some of mine.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle.
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.
Find out just what a people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.
Men may not get all they pay for in this world; but they must pay for all they get. If we ever get free from all the oppressions and wrongs heaped upon us, we must pay for their removal. We must do this by labor, by suffering, by sacrifice, and, if needs be, by our lives, and the lives of others. ~Frederick Douglass
Adam
January 18th, 2012
11:39 am
ty: as opposed to the present wealth envy “robots” currently stinking the place up.
That’s right, they’re just jealous of people who take showers or something.
I maintain that you are a d*ck.
md
January 18th, 2012
11:40 am
“Since1971, the average American family has seen almost NO financial benefit from their own rising productivity.”
As they take their spoils, jump into their Infintis and head down to Wal-mart for their bigger cart full of foreign made goods.
$50 billion a month shipped OUT of this country……..yet that has no effect on anything according to some.
AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater
January 18th, 2012
11:40 am
ty, let the adults discuss these matters…
Paul
January 18th, 2012
11:40 am
sfd 11:38
What?!!? Don’t you know progressives want to take everything rich people have?
At least, that’s what the conservatives here say!
Stephenson Billings
January 18th, 2012
11:40 am
“Since1971, the average American family has seen almost NO financial benefit from their own rising productivity.”
Shoot. I guess I’ll just stop trying then. Where’s my food stamps?
Adam
January 18th, 2012
11:41 am
Keep Up: Can we have some “choice” of honest discussion and NOT bumper sticker oversimplifications and “evidence” that is meaningless for the proposition cited.
Of course not. Evidence is whatever one wants it to be now. Everyone’s a scientist because they can redefine anything to mean whatever they want it to mean and live in an alternate reality if they feel like it. That’s freedom.
cosby
January 18th, 2012
11:41 am
Gee Jay, this makes no sense. First, Romney’s tax rate is full evidence that he IRS and the illegal tax code needs to go away – Fair Tax – Romney raised with a silver spoon..but why do you not ask the same questions of Barry Soetoro – Private School, Columbia – who or how was it paid for, trips overseas while in school – who or how was it paid for. A big house in an elite section of Chicago on a community organizers compensation – really and a lot thrown in – really – where did this money come from? I am not defending Romney, but look at any of the elite and ask the same questions…or better yet, ask why people show up in congress with little assets,then walk away with millions…this is what you should be focused on and not just one Republican Candidate…but then you like the Socialist Democratic Party…biased reporting at its best.
AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater
January 18th, 2012
11:41 am
Ditto, md…
Libertarian
January 18th, 2012
11:42 am
“I have previously shown you many ways in which the Democrats have put forward proposals that involve BOTH tax rate adjustments AND other stuff”
No you haven’t adam. The last time we had this conversation you had a list of democratic proposals. Everything on your list but one amounted to raising rates only.
Every conservative I know wants to move towards consumption-based taxes. Hence Romney, Buffett, and their billionaire buddies would pay more tax when they buy yachts, jets, and sports cars.
Paul
January 18th, 2012
11:42 am
Stephenson
Americans of average means and circumstances don’t qualify for food stamps.
Look before I leap...
January 18th, 2012
11:44 am
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
11:33 am
Look before I leap… – Yeah, doubt that’s going to happen today, but you’re welcome to try if you would like. Better bring a lot of friends, cause you’re not going to succeed otherwise.
Nope, not today and not tomorrow.
And I am not advocating such action either. We won’t see the peasants rushing the gates of the White House with a guillotine in tow. We’ll see economic collapse. The uber-rich folks will have big houses and no servants, no gas to put in the yachts and private jets or folks to pilot them.
If you squeeze out the middle class (merchants and professionals) and strangle the lower class (the worker bees), what do you have left?
Jay
January 18th, 2012
11:44 am
This whole “if you think taxes should be higher, then write Uncle Sam a check” argument is one of the loonier ploys out there.
It’s like saying, “if you think the deficit’s too big, then write Uncle Sam a check,” or “if you think defense spending is too low, write the Pentagon a check.” In neither case would the check in question have any real impact. Even Warren Buffett doesn’t have the checking account needed to make a real impact. You’re advocating some inconsequential symbolic gesture when what we need are major systemic changes.
Paul
January 18th, 2012
11:44 am
cosby
If you’d perused the thread before posting, you’d find Romney wants to lower taxes for people in his situation while Pres Obama wants to raise them.
md
January 18th, 2012
11:44 am
“Ignoring entirely the reasons why someone might suddenly be unable to afford a mortgage, and also ignoring the many foreclosures that happened due to bank legal trickery/thievery (such as foreclosing on houses the bank doesn’t even own, or foreclosing on houses without notice, etc etc).”
You and keep seem to have this problem equating the choice to borrow as a given right or something………..bottom line, it’s a gamble to borrow money to pay for ANYTHING. Once upon a time (and some today), folks saved up and paid cash for their purchases……including their homes.
You 2 are discounting those very same people today.
Back to the simple concept…….don’t want to gamble on losing a home…..pay cash.
It IS a choice. But so are all the excuses you two will come up with.
AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater
January 18th, 2012
11:45 am
Billings, the former marine told us essentially that very thing last night.
He posted some idiotic Boortz link positing some idiotic proposition that one is actually better off working for minimum wage and living in Section 8 housing than to make $60K per year.
Intellectual honesty is apparently also at a dear premium out there in the GOP’s parallel reality.
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2012
11:45 am
Don’t you know progressives want to take everything rich people have?
I’ll admit this much. Occasionally, when those who start crying and moaning about the fact that–shock, horror!–America has a debt that we’ve accumulated over the centuries and that we need to start payin’ it down NOW, dammit, and that there just ain’t no way we could raise enough to get into surplus by merely taxing available income…
yes, I have mentioned that a government could simply start confiscating accumulated wealth, if getting that debt paid off were really all that important.
I’m not serious, of course. But we *could* do that if it really made soooo much sense to pay down the gosh-durned debt. Which it really doesn’t, nor will it until we get everyone working again who wishes to work.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
11:45 am
md: As they take their spoils, jump into their Infintis and head down to Wal-mart for their bigger cart full of foreign made goods.
And buy STEAKS with FOOD STAMPS. OH THE HUMANITY.
You know, I can get an Infiniti for $2000 if I want. It’ll be a used one, but you won’t be able to tell because they have looked nice for many many years. I’ll wash it carefully so that I look like I am a status symbol, and I will have people judge me at Wal Mart when I buy food and then go to the car, but none of them will actually say anything to me, they’ll just gripe about it on the internet. All the while they will assume things about my life that are wildly off base. The story in their head is more important than reality.
mm
January 18th, 2012
11:46 am
“And that’s perfectly legal. Hence why many conservatives want tax reform. All democrats want is it raise the current rates. That’s not going to solve the problem.”
Completely stupid comment. Dems and indies want the rates to be equal. You either raise the capital gaisn or lower the income tax. Repubs want the poor and middle class to pay the bills while the rich pay little to nothing.
Libertarian
January 18th, 2012
11:47 am
Matti
January 18th, 2012
11:29 am
JFK?
ty webb
January 18th, 2012
11:47 am
“ty, let the adults discuss these matters…”
will do, heading over to the “Momania” blog as we speak.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
11:47 am
Adam — “And buy STEAKS with FOOD STAMPS. OH THE HUMANITY.”
ZOMGWTFLOLBBQ
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2012
11:47 am
some idiotic proposition that one is actually better off working for minimum wage and living in Section 8 housing than to make $60K per year.
I can totally see Boortz’ audience actually believing this.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
11:48 am
Libertarian: No you haven’t adam.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/01/18/mitt-romney-and-his-not-very-much-problem/?cp=3#comment-834133
Easy enough for you? If you like I will go back and find your response in which you said TWO of the things on my list were not tax rate changes. And btw, stop acting like I gave you a complete list. If you were REALLY paying attention, I wouldn’t have to give you a list at all and you wouldn’t believe this nonsense that “Democrats only want to raise rates.” Who is talking in your ear telling you that crap?
libertyhill
January 18th, 2012
11:48 am
Some of the GOP contenders are decrying non-GOP sources exposing their positions. Now, that’s funny!
Here’s (4) research papers on Mitt Romney
http://thelibertyjournal.com/2012/01/18/there-is-more-mitt-romney-opposition-research-besides-the-mccain-200-page-paper/
Dearie
January 18th, 2012
11:49 am
What difference does it make how much money he has? Most of our members of Congress are wealthy people. What is their tax rate? Who cares?
Let’s not stray from our country’s current problems. Jobs and economy
Can Mitt Romney’s experience in turning companies around and solving their financial and personnel problems be the asset we concentrate on? Romney has proven he can do what Obama has not been able to accomplish in 3 years. Facts are facts. Go with a winner. Running a country is more like running a business than a community.
Paul
January 18th, 2012
11:50 am
sfd
Lemme see if I get this: more people working = more income = more revenue, some of which could be used for a long-term, orderly application towards the debt.
You sure ’bout that?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
11:50 am
and md moves the goal posts…….
FEAR (False Evidence Appearing Real)
January 18th, 2012
11:51 am
Mittens will continue to offer his weak strawman defense of wealth envy in the coming weeks/months. What he fails to understand is that Americans have happily elected the super rich to the White House (FDR and Kennedy to name a couple). Mitten’s problem is he has no humanity. And he’s a transparent phony. Obama will mop the floor with him.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
11:51 am
You and keep seem to have this problem equating the choice to borrow as a given right or something
No, YOU are the one making a claim that foreclosures are evidence that every single one of them, or a majority, knew ahead of time they would not be able to afford what they were purchasing. That is what you are saying when you say “They bought what they could not afford” whether you CHOOSE to admit that is what you are saying or not. You have judged people for events they could not have anticipated, even with hindsight.
Making this argument about how massive amounts of people could have somehow anticipated that they would lose their jobs or banks would foreclose on their houses without notice and/or on a house they didn’t even own is ridiculous.
josef
January 18th, 2012
11:52 am
Dearie
“Running a country is more like running a business than a community.”
And I would posit that therein lies the problem…we’ve ceased to be a community and have become a business.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
11:53 am
Dearie — “What difference does it make how much money he has?”
As we keep telling you, it doesn’t. What matters is that he’s opposed to paying more, and that he’s demonstrated that he’s utterly disconnected from the issues facing Americans of low and moderate means.
“Most of our members of Congress are wealthy people. What is their tax rate? Who cares?”
Everyone should care, IMO.
“Can Mitt Romney’s experience in turning companies around and solving their financial and personnel problems be the asset we concentrate on?”
We can focus on that, too. I look forward to pointing out how Bain extracted wealth from companies at the cost of American jobs.
Libertarian
January 18th, 2012
11:53 am
Adam, nothing you read online is true. Its all biased (esp Huff Post). But fine, whatever..ok dems want to get rid of tax breaks to oil, gas, and ethanol producers. Good for them. How does that solve the problem of Romney/Buffet/Soros et al only paying 15% or less? It doesn’t. And, i don’t consider “cuts to future spending” to be real budget cuts.
I’m talking about a complete tax code overhaul…not picking more winners and losers…which is what congress has spent the last 20+ years doing by manipulating the tax code.
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2012
11:53 am
You sure ’bout that?
so sure I think I’ve said about a million times in here that cutting spending at a time of high unemployment is… well, this guy’s sign speaks for me.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
11:54 am
Dearie: Running a country is more like running a business than a community.
No, it isn’t.
Mary Elizabeth
January 18th, 2012
11:54 am
AmVet @11:39
“We cannot, we must not, if for no other reason than our posterity, allow this Two Americas to go forward any more.”
————————————————————————–
Yes, indeed!
But, we do not need to spill blood – as MLK demonstrated – in order for our nation to become more responsive to its average citizens. We can accomplish that end through the power of persuasion (as we are attempting here) and through the power of the ballot box.
(We may, however, need a little help from the courts to insure that the power of the ballot box remains unsullied.)
Susan73
January 18th, 2012
11:54 am
Here are thoughts I have gathered through the discussion that appeal to me. I know that Gingrich does no appeal to me. He is knowledgeable and proud He has proven himself to be big on ideas and small in making them happen. I like Santorum and I believe Romney is the best prepared and genuinely good leader this nation has produced in many years.
I’ve got a better idea, why not require all the candidates to release they’re tax returns? And even better than that, how about anyone in elected office release they’re returns for 5 years before, during the term and 5 years after they leave office. How the heck do all these persons come in as average working persons and leave multi-millionaires?????????
Daniel
January 18th, 2012
11:56 am
What is wrong with making money and not paying anymore taxes than you legally have to? I’m sure there aren’t many people that make big donations to the IRS when it is not required.
md
January 18th, 2012
11:56 am
“Someone making a $1 million can certainly afford a $500k house. However if their company goes bankrupt after they bought it because the entire housing market collapsed and there were no loans for people to buy houses and then they lost there house to foreclosure, the problem was not “affording” at time of purchase. ”
Then they should have paid cash and taken the uncertainty out of the equation………they made the choice to include more risk into the transaction…….
reebok
January 18th, 2012
11:57 am
Mitt’s going to get his head handed to him in the General Election. The more people know him, the less they like him. But perhaps another beating in the GE will cause the GOP to tack back towards the center, where ‘moderate’ is not considered an insult.
Libertarian
January 18th, 2012
11:57 am
mm
“Dems and indies want the rates to be equal. ”
Um, excuse me? Equal? Like 15% across the board? I’d be fine with that.
“Completely stupid comment.”
I’ll take that as a compliment, considering the source.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
11:57 am
How does that solve the problem of Romney/Buffet/Soros et al only paying 15% or less?
This is called “moving the goal posts.” Let’s back up now and go with the original point: Do Democrats ONLY want to raise tax rates, and have NEVER proposed any tax reform? If we expand this a bit and say “most Democrats” don’t want tax reform or “Rarely do Democrats propose tax reform” you would STILL be wrong on this point. Admit that.
Now as for the capital gains problem, I do not know of any proposal by ANYONE that would fix the problem. The onus of fixing that is not entirely on the Democrats btw. Why should they do all the work when the government has two major parties and two houses of Congress, each controlled by a different party? How about coming together to work on it?
Adam
January 18th, 2012
11:59 am
Libertarian: I’m talking about a complete tax code overhaul…not picking more winners and losers…
In other words, the only tax plan that is acceptable is one no one has proposed on either side?
Libertarian
January 18th, 2012
11:59 am
Adam
“Who is talking in your ear telling you that crap?”
There is a little mini Sean Hannity with a pitchfork and spiked ears on my shoulder.
Do you think your life will change if Romney is elected vs. if Obama is elected?
md
January 18th, 2012
12:00 pm
“You know, I can get an Infiniti for $2000 if I want. It’ll be a used one, but you won’t be able to tell because they have looked nice for many many years. I’ll wash it carefully so that I look like I am a status symbol, and I will have people judge me at Wal Mart when I buy food and then go to the car, but none of them will actually say anything to me, they’ll just gripe about it on the internet. All the while they will assume things about my life that are wildly off base. The story in their head is more important than reality.”
The “Infiniti” was for Am……inside joke.
But, you get my point…..or should. 50 billion a month going offshore and that has no effect on wages in this country??
Please……
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2012
12:01 pm
Do you think your life will change if Romney is elected vs. if Obama is elected?
Everyone’s lives are affected by decisions a President makes. the SCOTUS appointments alone affect future generations in very real ways.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
12:01 pm
md: Then they should have paid cash
Shoulda woulda coulda
They should have known the economy would collapse when it did, they shouldn’t have chosen to be born to parents who only had a middle class income, they shouldn’t have drank sodas at any point in their life…. all that is judgment that has no bearing on the actual point – that people bought what they thought they would be able to afford based on all available information they had at the time. That is ALL anyone can hope for. They didn’t all go out and deliberately borrow to buy things they knew they would default on, or that they thought they would even have a good chance of defaulting on.
Welcome to the Occupation
January 18th, 2012
12:02 pm
Dearie: “Running a country is more like running a business than a community”
I’d go even further than josef and state flatly:
running a country is diametrically opposed to running a business and the two approaches are in fact antagonistic.
Read Krugman the other day for a good explanation.
The purpose of a business – at least a large one, a corporation – is to make money. It has nothing whatsoever to do with promoting the general welfare and well being of a country. It will never, ever choose to do something because it is in the benefit of society unless it is forced to. Period.
Stephenson Billings
January 18th, 2012
12:04 pm
“The power to tax involves the power to destroy” – Justice John Marshall
Adam
January 18th, 2012
12:05 pm
Libertarian: Do you think your life will change if Romney is elected vs. if Obama is elected?
I care about more than myself, and I care about future generations. Not whether or not my own personal life will change, except when it comes to the loonies who want to change government for the worse by coming in and claiming everything we ever did in the 20th century was unconstitutional because Amendments 11 to infinity don’t matter and “state’s rights!” and other such nonsense.
Enforced social darwinism is contrary to the concept of a law based society.
md
January 18th, 2012
12:05 pm
“No, YOU are the one making a claim that foreclosures are evidence that every single one of them, or a majority, knew ahead of time they would not be able to afford what they were purchasing. That is what you are saying when you say “They bought what they could not afford” whether you CHOOSE to admit that is what you are saying or not. You have judged people for events they could not have anticipated, even with hindsight.
Making this argument about how massive amounts of people could have somehow anticipated that they would lose their jobs or banks would foreclose on their houses without notice and/or on a house they didn’t even own is ridiculous.”
Every single person borrowing money should ask themselves “what if”, and base their borrowing gambles accordingly…….
And no, I never said a thing about knowing ahead of time that they would be in that situation……but they certainly should have anticipated the possibility.
That is where your naivete comes into play……..the risk is always there…….ALWAYS…..when borrowing money. Discounting that FACT is an easy excuse……….which you are very good at coming up with.
Stephenson Billings
January 18th, 2012
12:05 pm
“Politicians never accuse you of ‘greed’ for wanting other people’s money — only for wanting to keep your own money.” [Joseph Sobran]
scrappy
January 18th, 2012
12:05 pm
“PS: HE is Exactly the kind of president we need. Yes, if those houses were foreclosed three years ago, we would see a reviving housing industry right now.”
Even if this were true – which it is most likely not – are we prepared to handle the side affects of all these foreclosures? More homeless, more empty houses (which can be linked to more crime), more poverty, more people unable to get loans, more people not buying anything = less demand = less economic recovery. etc. etc.
The people element is realizing that because you let the foreclosures happen (at such a scale, not saying forclosures should never happen) the people don’t just evaporate, they have to go somewhere, with no money and no hope.
CJ
January 18th, 2012
12:05 pm
ty webb, “Bravo! Mr. President, raise CJ’s taxes!”
Evidently ty webb doesn’t want to pay more in taxes. He wants to benefit from defense, Medicare, Social Security, highways, ports, damns and levies, technology, medicine, safe food and drinking water, transparency in markets, and the rest, but he’d rather run deficits than help pay for it. The opposite of a fiscal conservative and the very definition of a welfare queen.
Stephenson Billings
January 18th, 2012
12:06 pm
“The government consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can’t get and to promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time is made good by looting A to satisfy B. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods.”[H. L. Mencken]
RB from Gwinnett
January 18th, 2012
12:07 pm
Jay – “This whole “if you think taxes should be higher, then write Uncle Sam a check” argument is one of the loonier ploys out there.”
I guess if I posted on a public forum I’d be willing to pay a “few thousand more” and then welched on that every time I was asked if I “HAD” paid a few thousand more, I’d write that too.
Jay, if you firmly believe the government should have a “few thousand more” of your dollars to make itself solvent, give it to them. The only possible reasons for not doing so are you lied to us about that, or you’re just plain greedy. Take you pick, Jay. Man up or shut up.
Stephenson Billings
January 18th, 2012
12:07 pm
“In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, ‘Make us your slaves, but feed us.’” [Dosteovsky's 'Grand Inquisitor']
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
12:07 pm
Then they should have paid cash and taken the uncertainty out of the equation………they made the choice to include more risk into the transaction…….
And thus we seem to have a glimer of comprehension of the leveraged buyout
RB from Gwinnett
January 18th, 2012
12:07 pm
Anybody know how many dollars Romney paid vs. Obama?
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2012
12:08 pm
Even if this were true – which it is most likely not – are we prepared to handle the side affects of all these foreclosures?
No.
(THBAEOSATSQ.)
Adam
January 18th, 2012
12:08 pm
md: I am not following you down the choices rabbit hole again. You are simply wrong about that.
No, there is no “people SHOULD HAVE done this or that.” That is an excuse in itself, an excuse to judge anyone based on information that was completely unavailable to the person or group you are judging.
Stephenson Billings
January 18th, 2012
12:08 pm
“A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have.” – Thomas Jefferson
Stephenson Billings
January 18th, 2012
12:09 pm
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not – Thomas Jefferson
md
January 18th, 2012
12:10 pm
“And thus we seem to have a glimer of comprehension of the leveraged buyout”
It is always a risk/reward situation………too many focused on the reward aspect during the speculative housing bubble.
Stephenson Billings
January 18th, 2012
12:11 pm
From next door:
Top complaints about Mitt Romney:
#1 – he is too successful
#2 – he wears “mom jeans”
#3 – he pays the taxes as required by law
#4 – he gives away a lot of money
#5 – he invests money he has
Can we try squeezing some actual policy in our discourse people?
Libertarian
January 18th, 2012
12:11 pm
Adam
January 18th, 2012
12:05 pm
You didn’t really answer the question. It was a simple question. It just seems to me that many liberals on this blog love Obama so much and get so worked up over defending him. I just don’t get it. So I’m just wondering if you really believe that anything will change regardless of who is elected. Even if Obama gets elected in 2012, a Republican will inevitably get elected in 2016 since these things are usually cyclical.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
12:11 pm
That is where your naivete comes into play……..the risk is always there…….ALWAYS…..when borrowing money
And we come full circle in the moving of the goal posts. IF the risk is always there when borrowing and lending, then the claim that actual foreclosures are paid for by “others” fails to account that the lender had already built in a risk factor in the rate and its practices.
And how do we know she is a witch?……
Adam
January 18th, 2012
12:11 pm
RB: Anybody know how many dollars Romney paid vs. Obama?
Ah, the old “If you don’t pay X amount of dollars then shut up, knave” argument.
If Romney paid $100,000 in taxes in a year, then so should the person who only makes $50,000. That is STUPID. The dollar amount doesn’t matter, the percentage DOES. If as you earn more and more money you are paying less and less percentage, that is a REGRESSIVE tax system, opposing both a progressive tax system and the usual floated idea by some nutty conservatives of a FLAT TAX.
Jay
January 18th, 2012
12:11 pm
No, Mr. Billings, the biggest danger to democracy is voters gullible enough to believe that bright people such as Jefferson ever said such a thing.
Which he did not.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
12:14 pm
Libertarian: If you are trying to find out what I think will actually change things, it will be voting for people in Congress who understand the poor and middle class on an empathetic level, and also will fight for those same people – for the MAJORITY of Americans. That also involves not voting for people who want to dismantle government or take money away from people out of some misguided idea that doing so will give them “incentive” to do better.
ty webb
January 18th, 2012
12:14 pm
“Evidently ty webb doesn’t want to pay more in taxes.”
Correct! Especially since I’m not receiving more of those “benefits” than any of my neighbors.
md
January 18th, 2012
12:14 pm
“No, there is no “people SHOULD HAVE done this or that.” That is an excuse in itself, an excuse to judge anyone based on information that was completely unavailable to the person or group you are judging.”
Completely unavailable?
“What if” should be a common variable in every borrowing transaction. One might want to start with “what if I lose my income?”……….or not.
Excuses are easier……………
Jay
January 18th, 2012
12:15 pm
“A government big enough to give you everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have…
Jefferson never said THAT either.
Come on. If you’re going to preach respect for the Founding Fathers, as you should, then at least show the minimal level of respect needed not to put silly words in their mouths.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
12:15 pm
Billings: Can we try squeezing some actual policy in our discourse people?
No one can pinpoint what Mitt Romney’s ACTUAL policies would be if he were elected.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
12:15 pm
LUNCH
Link?
January 18th, 2012
12:15 pm
Adam banks would foreclose on their houses without notice and/or on a house they didn’t even own is ridiculous.
Could you provide a link on the % of homes this actually occurred?
Also….How many months should a homeowner be allowed to stay in their home without paying before being foreclosed?
Also….How many weeks would employee’s show up to work if on payday they were told “we are short of money so we aren’t going to be paying any employee’s this week”?
Just asking
philosopher
January 18th, 2012
12:15 pm
Paul January 18th, 2012
11:29 am
January 18th, 2012
11:29 am
Donation 11:22
What’s your point? That millionaires shouldn’t contribute significantly to the church to which they belong?
I tell you what concerns me about this: Mittens repeatedly uses his “business experience” to tout how great he would be at turning the financial state of America around. Well, if you look at his “”business experience” and you see how he stepped over everyone, including his own dog, in his path and fired tens of thousands of real live human beings in his steamrolling path to furthering his great wealth…and in the process, contributed millions of dollars and stocks from the businesses he owned and worked for and gave that to further the “business” of the LDS, you should be concerned. His way of doing “business” is not OK by me. I guess we’ll find out in November if the majority of Americans want the Muslim, birth-certificateless, socialist out so bad that they will sell their souls for this….
John Galt
January 18th, 2012
12:16 pm
You mean Romney’s rich? WE MUST HATE HIM AND ENVY HIM!! We do NOT want a successful person in the White House!!
My name is Barack Obama, and I approve this message.
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
12:17 pm
Jay – You’re right, Ford said the first one. Who knows who said the second one.
carlosgvv
January 18th, 2012
12:17 pm
(ir)Rational
It’s just a matter of time untill a sensible Socialist candidate is elected President. When that happens, Delta will be ready when you are.
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2012
12:17 pm
“Who among us does not love NASCAR?”
–Thomas Jefferson
Libertarian
January 18th, 2012
12:18 pm
Adam
January 18th, 2012
12:14 pm
Oh the old “democrats care about the poor and middle class and Republicans hate them” argument? (see I can do that too).
You mean good folks like Nancy Pelosi? With her net worth of over $35 million? I’m sure she understands the poor and middle class.
Brosephus
January 18th, 2012
12:18 pm
Okay, it’s been about 15 minutes since Jay posted “RB, in 2010 Obama’s effective tax rate was 23 percent.”
I’m interested in hearing from the stalwart progressives if they think that’s enough, if they think that’s fair. It’s 8 points up the scale from Mitt. Is that far enough up?
Not a stalwart progressive, but I’ll say hell no to the question is that far enough up. If somebody’s making $80k and paying a 35% rate, why should somebody who’s capable of paying that same rate without hurting their income pay a lower rate. I’m not suffering from wealth envy as I’ve traversed a few tax brackets in the twenty-plus years I’ve been working. I don’t have a problem with paying more taxes, as part of those taxes end up paying for things that positively affect my life on a daily basis.
As was stated earlier, we are all job creators, so that bs about “job creators” is just that, pure bovine fecal matter. Nobody in the 1% is going to invest in a company unless they see it as a viable means of positive returns. That company will not show positive returns without a demand AND customer base for their product.
md
January 18th, 2012
12:19 pm
Adam……you do know that the folks out there that pay cash for everything (yes, they do actually exist) are just shaking their heads at your excuses………..
Welcome to the Occupation
January 18th, 2012
12:20 pm
Mary Elizabeth: “When I wrote FDR and JFK’s had visions of more “breadth, depth, and humanity” than Romey’s, I was speaking of them as unique individuals, with their separate and unique perceptions, and not as representatives of the “patrician class” which practiced “noblisse oblige” from a programmed responsibility to duty and honor.”
I have to disagree with you here. When looked at in historical perspective, the progressive policies of the Roosevelts cannot be separated from their roles as representatives of their class position. And secondly, the enormous instability and turbulence of American society in that period — which we’re just now starting to get a taste of again now — had everything to do with their efforts to propose reforms.
They — correctly — realized that if capitalism was to be saved from itself, it would have to be the patrician class that led the effort. Part of our crisis today is precisely the decaying of that class.
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
12:20 pm
sfd – Pretty sure you’re trying to be funny, but I’ll go ahead and raise my hand and say I don’t.
carlos – Really? If that ever happens in my lifetime, then hopefully Delta will still go wherever I want to go.
CJ
January 18th, 2012
12:23 pm
ty webb, Especially since I’m not receiving more of those “benefits” than any of my neighbors.
I’m not advocating Clinton tax rates for you alone. I’m advocating Clinton tax rates for you AND your neighbors.
(I noticed you have the word “benefits” in scare quotes. That’s the trouble with you welfare queens. You take, but you don’t even know or appreciate what you’re getting in return for your taxes. In short, you wallow in your ignorance…with pride.)
getalife
January 18th, 2012
12:24 pm
Our founding fathers would be planning another revolution to start over.
The days of being rich and successful for hard work are over.
Now it is bribes to our corrupt government for the rich to get richer.
md
January 18th, 2012
12:24 pm
“IF the risk is always there when borrowing and lending, then the claim that actual foreclosures are paid for by “others” fails to account that the lender had already built in a risk factor in the rate and its practices. ”
And we both know actuarial science doesn’t work that way……..it’s based on historical averages……not a gluttony of speculators running up a housing bubble. Yes, good folks got caught in the middle…….but that doesn’t change the fact that they borrowed what they could not afford…..risk is a bitch when it actually does come into play.
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2012
12:24 pm
you do know that the folks out there that pay cash for everything (yes, they do actually exist)
Pretty stupid to carry that kind of cash around, I always thought.
RB from Gwinnett
January 18th, 2012
12:25 pm
Adam – “If Romney paid $100,000 in taxes in a year, then so should the person who only makes $50,000. That is STUPID”
Then don’t post that with your name on it silly. If you check, you’re only one here who has, so…. just sayin’
John Galt
January 18th, 2012
12:25 pm
JAY- Jefferson did say “The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”
That is well-cited so you ignored that one.
Who will pay the leeches of society when they push our government into insolvency? Did your mother never read you “The Goose Who Laid the Golden Eggs”? It is at your comprehension level, and extremely relevant, too.
The non-producers do more harm to those who have true need than they do to those who are taxed.
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2012
12:27 pm
Pretty sure you’re trying to be funny, but I’ll go ahead and raise my hand and say I don’t.
I was just ribbing Jay for mis-quoting John Kerry, earlier.
What Kerry actually said was “This president went to Florida just the other day to start the NASCAR races. There isn’t one of us here who doesn’t like NASCAR and who isn’t a fan, but I’ll tell you what—instead of just saying, “Gentlemen, start your engines” and during the race listening and looking at a race while 350 manufacturing jobs were lost and $171 million was—”
…and that’s where the reporter’s audio cuts off, apparently. Maureen Dowd thought it would be cute to pretend that Kerry said something else, and a meme was born.
Kamchak
January 18th, 2012
12:28 pm
What is wrong with making money and not paying anymore taxes than you legally have to?
There is nothing “wrong” with that.
The problem is, Romney wants to win a popularity contest from people who aren’t as advantaged as he is.
There is also nothing “wrong” with those people not liking Romney.
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
12:28 pm
John – Ehhhh…wrong. According to the historians at Monticello, he didn’t say that. He translated something similar to that, but as best as I could tell it was a) just a translation and b) only similar if you took it from what was written and translated it further (simplified it too) into today’s language. Thanks for playing though.
Brosephus
January 18th, 2012
12:29 pm
sfd
Lemme see if I get this: more people working = more income = more revenue, some of which could be used for a long-term, orderly application towards the debt.
You sure ’bout that?
Seems like somebody woke up a few brain cells this morning.
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
12:30 pm
sfd – I didn’t know he misquoted Kerry. But my sentiment still stands, I dislike NASCAR. I find it extremely boring. Now, driving around the track in one of those cars is a COMPLETELY different story. I’m all over that. But watching it, eh, boring.
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2012
12:30 pm
JAY- Jefferson did say “The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”
doubtful. I have several sources calling BS…
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=4053
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/j/jefferson-quotes.htm
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
12:30 pm
md – “If they could afford them, they’d have the money to pay the bill………pretty simple concept.”
That’s a pretty arrogant assumption. By your reckoning, EVERYONE who lost their home bit off more than they could chew?
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2012
12:32 pm
I dislike NASCAR. I find it extremely boring.
I’m kind of agnostic… I guess it might be mildly interesting if you’re there witnessing it in person or, as you say, driving it yourself. Can’t see the appeal watching it on TV though.
CJ
January 18th, 2012
12:32 pm
John Galt The non-producers do more harm to those who have true need than they do to those who are taxed.
The non-producers are those who inherit most of their wealth and/or make most of their money from gambling in commodities and the stock market. Such income doesn’t come from producing a damn thing, yet they have the lowest tax burden of us all.
This “producer” crap is a scam that the elite, falsely labeled as producers, have successfully pulled of on the American people, and unfortunately, the Ayn Rand acolyte has fallen for it hook, line, and sinker.
(Ayn Rand is the author of “The Virtue of Selfishness”)
ty webb
January 18th, 2012
12:33 pm
“(I noticed you have the word “benefits” in scare quotes. That’s the trouble with you welfare queens. You take, but you don’t even know or appreciate what you’re getting in return for your taxes. In short, you wallow in your ignorance…with pride.)”
that was an “extremely well thought out and a very dignified, intellectual” retort..I am much “smarter” having read it…”thanks a lot”
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
12:33 pm
Adam — “No, there is no “people SHOULD HAVE done this or that.” That is an excuse in itself, an excuse to judge anyone based on information that was completely unavailable to the person or group you are judging.”
I’ve made that same argument to him/her before, but he/she is utterly unmoved by it.
Jm
January 18th, 2012
12:35 pm
Jays column is like a pipeline to David plouffe’s larnyx
Wonder what America would be like had Gore won in 2000
Brosephus
January 18th, 2012
12:35 pm
“Who among us does not love NASCAR?”
–Thomas Jefferson
“Jus’ hang loose, blood. She gonna catch ya up on da’ rebound on da’ med side.” – Thomas Jefferson
RB from Gwinnett
January 18th, 2012
12:35 pm
Adam – “The dollar amount doesn’t matter, the percentage DOES.”
Oh really? And all this time I thought goods and services were paid for with DOLLARS. Silly me…. I’ll be sure to propose at the next school board meeting we change the starting salary for teachers to 23% and see how many applicants we get.
What would happen if the 1% got tired of you tools, took their money out of the market, put it in a savings account, and hit the links every day? Why shouldn’t they do that?
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
12:36 pm
sfd – I guess that’s a better way to describe it. I haven’t been to a race, but I won a chance to drive around AMS a few times, and then ride along with a pro. I might see going to a race, but I can’t watch them on TV. Growing up, we only had a few channels (literally 4, 5 on a good day), and it always seemed like Sunday afternoons, there wasn’t anything on besides NASCAR. I spent a lot of time outside on Sundays.
AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater
January 18th, 2012
12:36 pm
Randian philosophy is silly, narcissistic and generally irrelevant in discussions of modern day capitalism.
And so misguided that it is derided.
Rap on brother, rap on…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miZWYmxr8XE
Not Scott the d***
January 18th, 2012
12:36 pm
John Galt
January 18th, 2012
12:25 pm
You lie.
Mick
January 18th, 2012
12:36 pm
rb
No wonder you aren’t taken very seriously, you still don’t get it. Write the gov’t a check is an idiotic reply, anyone with a minimum of grade school math could tell you that if I send in a check for a thousand dollars more, it won’t do a damn thing, but if 80 million people send in $1000, now you’re talking…
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
12:37 pm
SfD — “I’m kind of agnostic… I guess it might be mildly interesting if you’re there witnessing it in person or, as you say, driving it yourself. Can’t see the appeal watching it on TV though.”
I attended a race once, as a tween, and my stepdad loved to watch races on TV. Never found any interest in it, myself. I had my face buried in a book, and he had his glued to tha teevee screen.
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
12:37 pm
Bro – Now you’re just making stuff up.
Mick
January 18th, 2012
12:38 pm
**Wonder what America would be like had Gore won in 2000?**
Solvent and no iraq war…
USinUK
January 18th, 2012
12:38 pm
“Don’t you know progressives want to take everything rich people have? ”
No, thanks, Paul – you can keep anything even remotely to do with the Kardashians
Jm
January 18th, 2012
12:39 pm
“in the white house”
Heck yes in the white house
Btw. Obama is a 1%er too
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
12:39 pm
Man, look at me, two days in a row I’ve managed to take a single statement from someone else and completely turn the tide of the conversation from the topic to something inane. I’ve got skills man.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
12:41 pm
RB — “What would happen if the 1% got tired of you tools, took their money out of the market, put it in a savings account, and hit the links every day? Why shouldn’t they do that?”
Don’t know. Why don’t you go suggest it to them? Maybe they’ll take you up on it and then you can come back here and gloat or something.
Jm
January 18th, 2012
12:41 pm
Mick 12:38 probably true
Shawny
January 18th, 2012
12:41 pm
Read this article:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/01/18/industry-source-state-department-will-reject-keystone-pipeline-reroute/
It says all you need to know about who needs to be in the white house next January.
Guy Incognito
January 18th, 2012
12:41 pm
Bro
My momma didn’t raise no chump! I dug her rap!
………and please don’t call me surely
John Galt's Father
January 18th, 2012
12:42 pm
“I love taxes.” Ronald Reagan
“Star Wars was derivitive tripe.” Abraham Lincoln
“So what, she was pretty.” Mitt Romney
“But, she’s my sister!” Anne Romney
Brosephus
January 18th, 2012
12:42 pm
Now you’re just making stuff up.
Besides, any movie junky worth their salt would know exactly where and who that quote originates from. That is only THE funniest movie scene ever recorded.
Brosephus
January 18th, 2012
12:42 pm
Guy
Tit for Tat
January 18th, 2012
12:43 pm
President Obama’s first chief of staff Rahm Emanuel once sat on the board of troubled federal mortgage giant Freddie Mac. Bill Daley, the president’s chief of staff whose departure was announced today, was previously a top executive at financial firm J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. So of course there should be little surprise that Obama’s latest chief of staff, announced by the president himself, also has deep ties to the financial industry himself.
From 2006-2008, Jack Lew was chief operating officer of Citibank’s alternative investments division. And it was his division that made billions of dollars betting “U.S. homeowners would not be able to make their mortgage payments,” as the Huffington Post reported.
The piece also reported: “Lew made millions at Citi, including a bonus of nearly $950,000 in 2009 just a few months after the bank received billions of dollars in a taxpayer rescue, according to disclosure forms filed with the federal government. The bank is still partly owned by taxpayers.”
John Galt
January 18th, 2012
12:43 pm
I have sources saying Jefferson DID say that.
But even if he didn’t, it is obviously true.
Stands for de3cibels- you could use the story of the man who killed the goose who laid the golden egg, too.
You continue to blog- some of use need to go participate in capitalism- if we don’t, who will feed the moochers?
Guy Incognito
January 18th, 2012
12:46 pm
Another classic that applies to today
“The Poor are revolting!
You’re telling me. I can smell them from here”!
Jay's Gerbil
January 18th, 2012
12:46 pm
Yawn, more class envy from the dumbocrats. Who gives a flying intercourse about his silver spoon? As long as he is able to work with both sides in Washington and get things done (unlike our current hero of the average joe) that the people need I could care less. He!!, Obama’s got a net worth of 7.3 mill. Not bad for a guy that never held a private sector job! http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2011/12/president-barack-obama-wealth.html
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2012
12:46 pm
John Galt
Please share with us your numbers.
How many Americans are “non-producers” (also define that for us will you?)
How many Americans have “true need” (also define true need for us)
I happen to think Romney is a non-producer. He does not have a job and creates nothing. He has more money that I, but I produce loads more.
Thomas
January 18th, 2012
12:47 pm
Bill Clinton, born William Jefferson Blythe 111 was the 42nd President of the United States from 1993 to 2001, with a net worth estimated at $80 million
Barack Obama is the former Senator from Illinois and the 44th President of the United States with an estimated net worth of $10.5 million
Obama will surpass Clinton as to net worth within 3 years of leaving the WH. Not too shabby!
Really quite humorous-
Kamchak
January 18th, 2012
12:47 pm
President Obama’s first chief of staff Rahm Emanuel once sat on the board of troubled federal mortgage giant Freddie Mac.
When you copy and paste an article from The Weakly Standard and don’t acknowledge it, that is plagiarism, which is generally frowned upon in polite society.
Just sayin’.
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
12:49 pm
RB from Gwinnett – ““What would happen if the 1% got tired of you tools, took their money out of the market, put it in a savings account, and hit the links every day?”
Yes, I can see it now. Welcome to Suntrust can I help you? I want to deposit 1.5 billion dollars into a savings account. Do I get free checking with that? Hurry up please, I have to hit the links.
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2012
12:49 pm
oh and good news….
looks like a big fat NO on the Keystone Pipeline.
Marvelous news.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
12:50 pm
J. Galt — “I have sources saying Jefferson DID say that. But even if he didn’t, it is obviously true.”
This is one of the most unintentionally pathetic and hilarious things I have ever seen posted on this blog.
Mick
January 18th, 2012
12:50 pm
thomas
Both of them have asked that their tax rates be increased and why not? Seems to me that they might have a few extra bucks to spare…
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
12:50 pm
Bro – Yeah, I’m a little fuzzy on movies that were made before I was born. However, with Guy’s help, I did figure it out. That was the name of the game though.
John Galt – If his own historians say he didn’t, I’ll go with them. Give it up.
Midori
January 18th, 2012
12:51 pm
cosby
If you’d perused the thread before posting, you’d find Romney wants to lower taxes for people in his situation while Pres Obama wants to raise them.
now Paul.
how dare you point out the overall stupidity that is his post.
how dare you!!
Kamchak
January 18th, 2012
12:51 pm
What would happen if the 1% got tired of you tools, took their money out of the market, put it in a savings account, and hit the links every day?
The “I’m gonna go Galt” threat.
I wish you would, but alas, you never do.
He's Not One Of Us
January 18th, 2012
12:52 pm
@Grasshopper
January 18th, 2012
10:30 am
It formed his world view in a way that he can never fully escape, in part because there is little evidence that he had tried.”
What does that mean? What is there to escape from?
Jay, do you ever tire of phoning in the ‘He’s rich and not like us’ crap?
____________________________________________________________________
Oh Grasshopper, He is RICH and NOT like us.
Mitt would not accept nor allow someone like you in his inner circle.
He is an elitist.
Let the TRUTH set you free.
MiltonMan
January 18th, 2012
12:52 pm
Libs and their complete lack of comprehension with anything related to math. 15% – so what. Let’s see the dollar amount that Mitt paid in federal income tax. I bet that amount would correlate to 50-100 techers being hired by schools.
Has Mitt broken any laws? Libs complain all the time about rich not paying their fair share but they also do not want to hear anything related to a “fair tax” system.
Interesting indeed.
Brosephus
January 18th, 2012
12:53 pm
(ir)Rational
Airplane came out before you were born??? I might have to start calling you “young grasshopper” and I haven’t hit 40 yet myself.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
12:53 pm
J. Gerbil — “He!!, Obama’s got a net worth of 7.3 mill. Not bad for a guy that never held a private sector job!”
Compare with the net worth of John McCain, who’s also never held a private sector job. (laughing)
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
12:53 pm
I’m going out for lunch. Y’all have a good day/afternoon/not sure when I’ll be back so I’m trying to cover all my bases.
Tit for Tat II
January 18th, 2012
12:53 pm
The executive who was appointed to lead the mortgage giant Fannie Mae in 2009 after the federal government seized it plans to step down as its chief executive. The executive, Michael J. Williams, announced that he would step down after a successor was found. Mr. Williams, Mr. Haldeman and other Fannie and Freddie executives faced intense questioning on Capitol Hill in November over millions of dollars in bonuses and compensation they received since 2009. Twelve executives at the companies received $35.4 million in total salary and bonuses in 2009 and 2010. Mr. Williams earned about $9.3 million for the two years.
USinUK
January 18th, 2012
12:53 pm
“The “I’m gonna go Galt” threat.”
right up there with “I’m gonna hold my breath until I turn blue” … and about as deadly …
AngryRedMarsWoman
January 18th, 2012
12:53 pm
“By your reckoning, EVERYONE who lost their home bit off more than they could chew?”
Well, ultimately that is the way it played out if they couldn’t make the mortgage payment and the bank foreclosed. Not saying they went into it with the intention of not paying. Not saying that they didn’t have something bad happen (eg loss of job, illness, divorce, etc) that left them unable to pay it. Just that when you consider borrowing money you go through a lot of “what ifs” and assign a probability factor to each of them – you decide if the chance of reward is greater than the risk and act accordingly. I have no stats or links, but I am guessing that the vast majority of people pay their mortgages at least somewhat timely…..although I would further guess that few actually ever wind up owning a home outright because they refi or move too many times in their lives, but maybe that last retirement condo down in Florida gets bought with cash. I feel bad for some of the folks who lose their homes – but in the end it means that they did bite off more than they could chew because one of those risk factors to which they assigned a low probability turned out to be 100%. I paid off my house note about 6 years after moving in and have never again borrowed against it – I hate risk, which is one reason why I will never be “I don’t have to work anymore” wealthy.
JOE Cool
January 18th, 2012
12:54 pm
“King Kong Ain’t Got $h!t On Me”-Ronald Reagan
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
12:54 pm
K’chak — “The “I’m gonna go Galt” threat. I wish you would, but alas, you never do.”
Word. I mean, just effing WORD.
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
12:54 pm
Bro – Yeah, Airplane came out before my parents got married. You were saying?
USinUK
January 18th, 2012
12:54 pm
“Has Mitt broken any laws? ”
no one knows – he hasn’t released his returns …
it remains to be seen …
Matti
January 18th, 2012
12:54 pm
“No, thanks, Paul – you can keep anything even remotely to do with the Kardashians.”
AMEN! If that’s what being rich does to people, then we really do need to start EATING them! Get a big vat of BBQ sauce, because… yuck!
mm
January 18th, 2012
12:54 pm
“Who will pay the leeches of society when they push our government into insolvency?”
The rightwing mantra.
“Man, look at me, two days in a row I’ve managed to take a single statement from someone else and completely turn the tide of the conversation from the topic to something inane.”
The rightwing debate tactic.
Kamchak
January 18th, 2012
12:55 pm
…but they also do not want to hear anything related to a “fair tax” system.
Shrug
A bill that has yet to even get out of committee and doesn’t stand a chance of getting passed as it is written, is anything but “fair.”
Midori
January 18th, 2012
12:55 pm
Thomas/Gerbel,
are you guys having a contest to see who can post the most useless comment(s)?
Brosephus
January 18th, 2012
12:56 pm
What would happen if the 1% got tired of you tools, took their money out of the market, put it in a savings account, and hit the links every day?
Oooohh, I wanna take a guess?? If they did that, then they might actually become true job creators as they would need golf gear, country club membership, and all other things related to those transactions. By actually getting off their asses (overdramatization, for the sarcastically challenged) and stimulating demand, they would actually do more to fuel the economy by doing that as opposed to keeping money in the market.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
12:56 pm
md: you do know that the folks out there that pay cash for everything (yes, they do actually exist) are just shaking their heads at your excuses…
And some rich people shake their heads at anyone who isn’t already rich. Some poor people shake their heads at just how much people in the middle and upper classes consume. All judgment based arguments, again away from the actual POINT.
Libertarian: No, I meant what I said. What will change things is voting in a Congress that “gets” the common person. Anyone who does not fit that bill being voted in is not voting for the kind of change I am proposing. Does that mean I am going to only vote for people who fit that bill, and otherwise stay home? No.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
12:56 pm
M. Man — “do not want to hear anything related to a “fair tax” system.”
I don’t want to hear anything related to the so-called “Fair Tax” that’s often bruited about by so-called libertarians and some Tea Party adherents, no. There’s nothing fair about it, and it’s advantages are horribly, horribly overstated.
Brosephus
January 18th, 2012
12:57 pm
Bro – Yeah, Airplane came out before my parents got married. You were saying?
j/k as I’m not that old myself.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
12:57 pm
Libertarian: Does my concern for the deficit mean I am going to give every available cent I have to the US Treasury? No. Does my concern for poor people mean I will donate every available cent I have to a charity that supports them? No. One need not put a large contribution where their mouth is to speak out against injustice.
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2012
12:58 pm
What would happen if the 1% got tired of you tools, took their money out of the market, put it in a savings account, and hit the links every day?
They’d get maybe 3% interest on their money and improve their short game?
Doggone/GA
January 18th, 2012
12:58 pm
“I bet the dollar amount of his 15% is much, much more than the 15% paid by someone who made 50,000 dollars. The intellectual dishonesty that is being spread should stop. 15% of a million dollars is a whole lot more than 15% of 50,000 dollars.”
Yep, it is…and what is left over is a whole HELL OF A LOT MORE for those that only have to pay 15% (or less)
USinUK
January 18th, 2012
12:58 pm
“Get a big vat of BBQ sauce, because… yuck!”
nah … too stringy … and I try not to ingest silicon if I don’t have to …
Jay's Gerbil
January 18th, 2012
12:58 pm
All right, no Keystone pipeline. Obama won’t be winning those states in the next election!
Brosephus
January 18th, 2012
12:58 pm
JOE Cool
Now, thass funny!!!!!
He's Not One Of Us
January 18th, 2012
12:58 pm
@Martin the Calvinist
January 18th, 2012
10:31 am
I bet the dollar amount of his 15% is much, much more than the 15% paid by someone who made 50,000 dollars. The intellectual dishonesty that is being spread should stop. 15% of a million dollars is a whole lot more than 15% of 50,000 dollars.
_________________________________
Personally, I don’t care how much his tax rate is.
My problem with him is can he RELATE to people who have had to struggle and work hard for everything they were given?
I don’t think so.
He needs to walk a mile in OUR shoes and maybe just maybe he will get understand our plight.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
12:59 pm
md: Yes, good folks got caught in the middle…….but that doesn’t change the fact that they borrowed what they could not LATER, AFTER THEY GOT CAUGHT IN UNANTICIPATED CIRCUMSTANCES, afford…
USinUK
January 18th, 2012
12:59 pm
““I bet the dollar amount of his 15% is much, much more than the 15% paid by someone who made 50,000 dollars. The intellectual dishonesty that is being spread should stop. 15% of a million dollars is a whole lot more than 15% of 50,000 dollars.””
ohsweetjeebus …
please tell me you weren’t serious about that comment in regards to not having a firm grasp on the concept of %%%
He's Not One Of Us
January 18th, 2012
1:00 pm
CORRECTION:
He needs to walk a mile in OUR shoes and maybe just maybe he will understand our plight.
Jm
January 18th, 2012
1:00 pm
O knows jack poop
Mick
January 18th, 2012
1:00 pm
Oil or water? Need water to live, need oil for the car, which do you choose?
Jm
January 18th, 2012
1:01 pm
O is a greedy capitalist pig
Jefferson
January 18th, 2012
1:01 pm
Anyone who thinks the the gov’t will give food, clothing and shelter to someone who doesn’t works is wrong, and if they go around saying it they are spreading lies, whether they know it or not. Assistance, yes, existance, no.
ME
January 18th, 2012
1:02 pm
We should beat him for making this money. It should be a crime! While we are at it, lets punish the comanies paying for it too! Damn filthy rich.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
1:03 pm
John Galt: I have sources saying Jefferson DID say that.
I have sources that say the HPV vaccine causes mental retardation
AngryRedMarsWoman
January 18th, 2012
1:03 pm
“They’d get maybe 3% interest on their money and improve their short game?”
Please provide link…..I would love to get some of that 3% interest action.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
1:04 pm
All right, no Keystone pipeline. Obama won’t be winning those states in the next election!
Right, because the farmers and the people worried about water acquifers, the repeated leaks on the current pipe that Keystone has already built and the other concerns will just all vote Conned!
Mick
January 18th, 2012
1:04 pm
me
Nobody cares how much money you accumulate, just don’t complain about paying taxes in a country that allows you to accumulate limitlessly…
Adam
January 18th, 2012
1:04 pm
John Galt: You continue to blog
In other words, stop talking, and go do something *I* want you to do instead. Then I don’t have to listen to you make sense, and I get to mooch off of your hard work while *I* sit here and do the very thing that I am telling others is a waste of time – blogging.
AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater
January 18th, 2012
1:04 pm
The only silver lining I can see to a Mitt election is that these inveterate liars in the right wing can stop with the transparent nonsense that they actually give a rat’s __ about Washington DC being corporate owned territory.
Or about the plutocracy for that matter.
Lambs bleating their way to their collective slaughter.
OK, out to go see the vampires at the VA.
Love that socialism…
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2012
1:05 pm
Jay’s Gerbil
Actually the opposite is true. As of September last year 64% of folks in Nebraska oppose it.
Let Canada get their oil sands crude to the international market
by dragging it’s filth across it’s own breadbasket.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
1:06 pm
MiltonMan: Let’s see the dollar amount that Mitt paid in federal income tax.
And there you have it. Obviously Rush must have said something like this just this morning.
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2012
1:06 pm
Angry Mars Woman
See Bankaround.com and look for wells Fargo
Bruno
January 18th, 2012
1:07 pm
As the son of one of Detroit’s most powerful auto executives, and as a highly successful venture capitalist himself, he has experienced the world from a very different vantage point than most of his fellow Americans.
I’m a little confused here, Jay. Are you saying that being successful should be viewed as a handicap when choosing a leader?? That we’re better off with a loser??
There’s no doubt that Bush Sr. lost the 1992 election when he couldn’t even guess at a ballpark figure for a loaf of bread and a gallon of gas. Romney isn’t in that category, in spite of his “different” perspective as to what comprises a “lot of money”. BFD–When I was a kid, I thought $20 was a lot of money. Now, anything less than a thousand isn’t much of a blip on my radar screen.
Kamchak
January 18th, 2012
1:08 pm
“I like big butts and I can not lie
You other brothers can’t deny” — Thomas Jefferson
He's Not One Of Us
January 18th, 2012
1:10 pm
@scrappy
January 18th, 2012
10:37 am
I don’t believe the person sitting in the white house should be able to so easily remove the people element from his policies. That person needs to know how his/hers policies affect real Americans & let that weigh in on the decision making process.
_______________________________________________
My concern is that Mitt will NOT care about how his policies will affect ME or YOU.
Only the 1% will benefit from his presidency.
He’s not one of us.
Mick
January 18th, 2012
1:10 pm
**Now, anything less than a thousand isn’t much of a blip on my radar screen**
Hey bruno, can I borrow $500? That’s chump change according to you, thanks…
RB from Gwinnett
January 18th, 2012
1:10 pm
“anyone with a minimum of grade school math could tell you that if I send in a check for a thousand dollars more, it won’t do a damn thing,”
That’s a cop out from a coward. If YOU believe YOU should be paying more, do it. Apply your same idiotic stance to the United Way and see what happens. “I’m not going send you any money because my contribution won’t do much….” That’s pathetic, Mick.
Jay
January 18th, 2012
1:11 pm
The executive who was appointed to lead the mortgage giant Fannie Mae in 2009 after the federal government seized it plans to step down as its chief executive. The executive, Michael J. Williams, announced that he would step down after a successor was found. Mr. Williams, Mr. Haldeman and other Fannie and Freddie executives faced intense questioning on Capitol Hill in November over millions of dollars in bonuses and compensation they received since 2009. Twelve executives at the companies received $35.4 million in total salary and bonuses in 2009 and 2010. Mr. Williams earned about $9.3 million for the two years.
This oft-heard complaint confuses me as well. We are reminded all the time that “government ought to be run like a business,” and that businesses need to pay their top executives huge salaries in order to attract top talent.
But should government pay even a fraction of CEO salaries to those who perform similar functions in government, heads begin to explode.
Mick
January 18th, 2012
1:13 pm
rb
I don’t see how that equates to cowardice, but then you never were the sharpest tool in the shed – have a great day…
Adam
January 18th, 2012
1:13 pm
15% on $5 million = $750k. Amount leftover? $4.25 mil in ONE YEAR. Ability to take care of oneself and one’s family for that year and many after it? GUARANTEED.
25% on $50,000 = $12,500. Amount leftover? $37,500. Ability to pay mortgage, costs of an entire family, etc? NOT guaranteed, and might not even last one single year.
THAT is the only time the dollar amount matters. The dollar amount given to the government in this scenario is irrelevant. Also, kindly note the millionaire paid 15% and the person making 50k paid 25%.
Mary Elizabeth
January 18th, 2012
1:13 pm
Welcome to the Occupation @12:20
Our overall goal for our nation is the same, I believe. However, as with most individuals, we will have differing views within that overall perspective. Here is where I disagree with your thoughts. You said earlier:
—————————————————————-
“So the progressive movement eventually took shape as a bipartisan attempt to co-opt all of this energy in the name of shoring up the very viability of the system and to stave off total revolution. That’s all that figures like the two Roosevelts were really about in the end.
“Ultimately a new social pact was forged that consisted of certain concessions – a limited social safety net and protection for workers – in return for fierce purging of communist elements in unions in the North and in the South it consisted of limited acceptance of these reforms on the strict condition that they be denied to blacks, thus perpetuating a quasi-apartheid social order there that continued until that entire system broke down in the 50s and 60s, at which point the whole arrangement collapsed and gave us the current Southern flip to the GOP. ”
—————————————————————————-
You see, I do not believe that FDR was simply all about “staving off a revolution” of the people and of preserving capitalism. Of course, he was influenced by the “noblisse oblige” of his class to some degree, and of course he would not have wanted capitalism to collapse, but I think that because of the emotional and physical pain of polio and his resulting disability, and because of the influence that his wife’s values had upon him (which is one of the main reasons he chose her), he had developed a deep resonance for the pain and hardship suffered by the average American during the years of the Great Depression. He wanted those humble men and women to have better lives and he believed in the human rights for all of American citizens that he elaborated upon in his 2nd Bill of Rights within his last inaugural address. Eleanor Roosevelt was an advocate for basically those same human rights throughout the world after FDR had died. Roosevelt was called a “traitor to his class” by those of the aristocratic elite from where his roots originated. His concern was a human concern for Americans. He and Eleanor together did what they could to that end.
So I do not believe that FDR, cynically, established the basic safety net in Americans as an exchange to politicians and political forces to purge communism in unions in the North, nor as an exchange to deny blacks access to rights in the South. I think Roosevelt “wheeled and dealed” with the possible of his day, but that his overriding concern in doing so was based on his humanity.
Remeber segregation was so pervasive throughout the nation that Eleanor Roosevelt had to insist that Marian Anderson sing before the Lincoln Memorial and Mrs. Roosevelt dropped her membership in the DAR because of their still narrow views which Mrs. Roosevelt had transcended years before.
Today, I believe that capitalism must still be modulated and it is best modulated through our beautifully established government which has a check and balance system designed by our founders. So, we are in agreement on that, as well as on the importance of the voices of average Americans having precedence within our nation.
I must go for the afternoon. This “essay” is “spotty” and not as cohesive as I would have liked because of time but I hope I have at least explained why I think Roosevelt’s primary choices originated from his unique mind and spirit, just as did Thomas Jefferson’s, who also was of the aristocratic “noblisse oblige” but who believed – in his core – in the egalitarian principles for humanity based on human rights and freedoms, as did FDR. No cynicism, just love of freedom and of the equality of every human soul. Yet they were both flawed men, as are we all, flawed men and women. We must look to the core. For the record, I like what I see as Obama’s core, more than I like what I see as Romney’s.
RB from Gwinnett
January 18th, 2012
1:14 pm
The wealth envy of you liberals is unbelievable. Pathetic.
Bruno
January 18th, 2012
1:15 pm
Hey bruno, can I borrow $500? That’s chump change according to you, thanks…
Mick–Remember that money you found along the highway a few months back?? That was from me. I threw it out the window, it was causing too much pressure in my pocket.
Don’t worry about paying me back.
Mick
January 18th, 2012
1:15 pm
The water carrying of you conservative tools is far beyond pathetic – more like self mutilation, carry on…
Link?
January 18th, 2012
1:16 pm
So the person paying $750,000 is paying 60 times more money that the other person and you say that isn’t fair???????????????
Guy Incognito
January 18th, 2012
1:17 pm
GG
You should’ve gotten a rim-shot for your 12:58. Here it is….
Ba-dum-chi!
Matti
January 18th, 2012
1:17 pm
Are you saying that being successful should be viewed as a handicap when choosing a leader??
You mean like how Bill Clinton, the son of poor common folk who worked hard in school to be at the top of his class, get scholarships, and bust his behind to make a better life and achieve the American dream, was maligned for being “slick” and a “criminal” (even when he lost money on a real estate deal) by the Repubs who were telling us how great their silver-spoon, multi-generation, never-worked-for-it rich guys were?
Good question, Bruno.
Mick
January 18th, 2012
1:17 pm
bruno
Touche! Hey, I still scan that stretch of road for that last hidden c-note…
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2012
1:18 pm
“We have to pass the bill so that we will know what’s in it and also too, I believe there are actually 57 states. Where my teleprompter at?”
–Thomas Jefferson
Adam
January 18th, 2012
1:18 pm
RB: Same to you: That’s a cop out from a coward. If YOU believe YOU should be paying LESS, do it. Apply your same idiotic stance to the government and see what happens.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
1:19 pm
The
wealth envycomplete inabilityof youliberalscons to comprehend the difference between discussions of inequalities and gaps and a systematic distortion of taxation and that of envy is unbelievable. PatheticKamchak
January 18th, 2012
1:19 pm
Still have difficulty understand that percentage thingie, I see.
Erwin's cat
January 18th, 2012
1:20 pm
Again, all you have on Mitt is that he’s super freakin’ rich…he doesn’t have to apologize for it… so what… would you prefer a candidate that squandered away millions like Corzine?
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2012
1:21 pm
Kammie…
Isn’t that what’s under his picture on the 2 dollar bill?
Adam
January 18th, 2012
1:21 pm
Link?: It is not fair, correct. His 60 times more is still a lower percentage of his annual income, and leaves him with plenty of room to take care of himself and his family for YEARS. The middle class guy is lucky to take care of himself and his family for one year. So no, it is NOT fair for that to be the case.
He's Not One Of Us
January 18th, 2012
1:21 pm
@TaxPayer
January 18th, 2012
10:41 am
Aside from his religion, how is Mitt not the perfect Republican.
_______________________________________________________
He is not one of us.
His religion is another topic that frankly scares the heck out of me.
He is a 1 %er.
Mitt could never relate to the poor or middle class.
He has never had to walk in our shoes.
I could never relate to millionaires. We don’t have the same life experiences.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
1:22 pm
DJ TeeJay — ““I like big butts and I can not lie
You other brothers can’t deny”
http://www.livejournal.com/users/quislibet/164084.html
Adam
January 18th, 2012
1:23 pm
“I don’t want none unless you got buns, hun” – Herman Cain.
Guy Incognito
January 18th, 2012
1:23 pm
“Gambling is illegal at Bushwood, and I NEVER slice.”
-Barack Obama
JOE Cool
January 18th, 2012
1:23 pm
Kamchak
January 18th, 2012
1:08 pm
LOL
Midori
January 18th, 2012
1:24 pm
The water carrying of you conservative tools is far beyond pathetic – more like self mutilation, carry on…
word…….
Adam
January 18th, 2012
1:24 pm
This percentages versus dollar amounts thing is why cons don’t want public education: If people know how to actually DO MATH they’ll find out just how much they’re being cheated.
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
1:24 pm
Erwins Cat – “Again, all you have on Mitt is that he’s super freakin’ rich…he doesn’t have to apologize for it”
Agreed. Now go tell Perry and Gingrich to get off his case before they blow the whole election and lock in 4 more years of Obama.
He's Not One Of Us
January 18th, 2012
1:24 pm
@moonbat betty
January 18th, 2012
10:46 am
A billion dollars says that Obama has a chance at winning this election.
____________________________________________________
YOU WIN!
Collect your billion dollars.
Kamchak
January 18th, 2012
1:24 pm
Again, all you have on Mitt is that he’s super freakin’ rich…he doesn’t have to apologize for it…
I don’t recall anyone here asking for an apology.
so what…
He’s trying to win a popularity contest and he is asking people not as advantaged as he is to chose him.
would you prefer a candidate that squandered away millions like Corzine?
I would prefer that Corzine was keelhauled.
Just sayin’.
ME
January 18th, 2012
1:24 pm
mick
I dont see Romney complaining. What do you think the top tax rate should be?
Mick
January 18th, 2012
1:26 pm
me
I would push the top tax rate back to what they were under eisenhower…
He's Not One Of Us
January 18th, 2012
1:28 pm
@AmVet – “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means.” ~Barry Goldwater
January 18th, 2012
10:49 am
Speaking of authentic black men, I am really starting to miss Herman’s foot in mouth disease escapades on the campaign trail.
Is his campaign still suspended?
______________________________________________
Please let sleeping dogs lie.
JOE Cool
January 18th, 2012
1:28 pm
“I k!ll a communist for fun, but for a green card, I gonna carve him up real nice.”-Ronald Reagan
Erwin's cat
January 18th, 2012
1:29 pm
Mick – >i>I would push the top tax rate back to what they were under eisenhower…
you can’t even quote the number but that’s what it should be?…how the heck to you come to that conclusion?..w/o knowing the number
ME
January 18th, 2012
1:30 pm
mick
92%, really? Doesn’t give you much incentive to work after making 200k
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
1:31 pm
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2012
12:58 pm
What would happen if the 1% got tired of you tools, took their money out of the market, put it in a savings account, and hit the links every day?
They’d get maybe 3% interest on their money and improve their short game?- granny
Actually we already know what they would do via historical record. They would take their money out of investments that don’t provide an adequate after tax return commensurate with the risk and put their money in tax-free munis and t-bills, other tax shelters, or send money either to offshore tax shelters or overseas investments.
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2012
1:34 pm
Thulsa
bank account = tax-free munis and t-bills, other tax shelters, or send money either to offshore tax shelters or overseas investments.
Not at my bank it don’t.
JOE Cool
January 18th, 2012
1:34 pm
“I’ll be your huckleberry”-Larry Craig
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2012
1:35 pm
Oh and Thulsa
Do you also think they couldn’t improve their short game?
He's Not One Of Us
January 18th, 2012
1:35 pm
@Paul
January 18th, 2012
10:57 am
Okay, it’s been about 15 minutes since Jay posted “RB, in 2010 Obama’s effective tax rate was 23 percent.”
I’m interested in hearing from the stalwart progressives if they think that’s enough, if they think that’s fair. It’s 8 points up the scale from Mitt. Is that far enough up?
_________________________________
The SILENCE IS DEAFENING
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
1:35 pm
ME – “92%, really? Doesn’t give you much incentive to work after making 200k”
Or, doesn’t give you much incentive to HOARD after making $200,000.00
ragnar danneskjold
January 18th, 2012
1:37 pm
I suspect that only flaky leftists think Mitt Romney’s campaign speeches (and his gross income and contributions to the Mormons and practically everything else the leftists say about him) are the reason the Stimulus failed and ObamaCare is detested and Dodd-Frank continues to crush the economy. Leftists will so vote the loony line, and the rest of us will vote to eject the current Occupy Oval Office movement.
AngryRedMarsWoman
January 18th, 2012
1:37 pm
@He’s Not One Of Us – save for him being a different religion than almost all of them, your description of Mittens applies to almost everyone sitting in DC….the rise of the political class is what historians will point to when discussing the downfall of the USA. I am not sure of your definition of “us”, but I am pretty sure even if one of them was “us” at some point they stopped being “us” when they got to DC. It is like Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978, for the youngsters out there – a remake of a 1956 film). I fear that we closed our eyes to it for too long while we enjoyed the bits that actually trickled down and now have a very small chance of getting back on the right track.
Welcome to the Occupation
January 18th, 2012
1:38 pm
Erwin’s Cat: “Again, all you have on Mitt is that he’s super freakin’ rich…he doesn’t have to apologize for it… ”
No, what we have on Mitt is the fact that his wealth makes him super freakin’ narrow in outlook and in his class interests, interests which he has indicated he is determined to protect tooth and nail. The rest of us are on our own.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
1:38 pm
ME — “92%, really? Doesn’t give you much incentive to work after making 200k”
I’m sure that there’s ample documentary evidence of wealthy individuals in the 40s and 50s knocking off work partway through the year so they wouldn’t be subjected to those high tax rates.
Right?
Jay
January 18th, 2012
1:39 pm
So Ragnar, exactly how does Dodd-Frank “continue to crush the economy?”
Corporate profits at record highs. Dow has risen more quickly than at any time in history. Jobs have begun to come back. So please, tell me what provisions in Dodd-Frank are crushing the economy….
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
1:39 pm
Adam,
I’m not sure that a family making 50k actually pays 25% of their income in federal taxes or $12,500 per year. Not sure but I think that the median income in the U.S. for a household is something like 55k and if 47% of Americans don’t pay federal taxes outside of FICA then it seems hard to believe that a family making 50k is paying $12,500 in federal taxes and an effective tax rate of 25%. And that’s before we even get into all the various deductions. Taking all the deductions into account it seems difficult to believe. Perhaps someone who has a family on here and makes right at 50k can enlighten both of us.
Mick
January 18th, 2012
1:40 pm
erwin
I knew it was somewhere in the 90 percentile. Funny, but we still had millionaires in the 50’s. That economic structure was much more equitable than today, so yeah, I think that’s what’s needed…
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
1:40 pm
Doom — ” or send money either to offshore tax shelters or overseas investments.”
I’m sure you’ve been following recent developments at the IRS with great interest, as they pertain to exactly this sort of thing.
He's Not One Of Us
January 18th, 2012
1:40 pm
@Quagmire
January 18th, 2012
11:03 am
Paid for Speaking Fees: I speak at the local liquor store all the time, especially on Sundays. I never get a fee for my speeches. Maybe I should ask for the money before I start drinking.
___________________________________________
That’s funnnny.
md
January 18th, 2012
1:40 pm
“That’s a pretty arrogant assumption. By your reckoning, EVERYONE who lost their home bit off more than they could chew?”
And your point?
They evidently did……I’ll steer you to Angry Mars Woman’s post for a more detailed explanation. She gets it……..unlike Adam, that seems to get nothing except the monthly subscription to “excuses anonymous”……
Same for Joe Mama……..just because we don’t know what may lie in the future (those unknowns), doesn’t mean it is prudent to not plan for them. My spouse and I try to eliminate some (note the word some), by spending according to the income of one of our salaries……that way, when one loses their job it won’t take us down. That doesn’t eliminate the risk if we both lose jobs at the same time……..just reduces it. ALL borrowing has risks.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
1:40 pm
>i>I’m interested in hearing from the stalwart progressives if they think that’s enough, if they think that’s fair. It’s 8 points up the scale from Mitt. Is that far enough up?
Nope. And even Obama says so.
Another episode of simple answers to silly questions.
ME
January 18th, 2012
1:40 pm
BUtch
are you suggesting that anything over 200k is hoarding and thus not necessary?
Talking Head
January 18th, 2012
1:41 pm
yet another example of Obama pandering to his loon base, putting politics over country
http://www.cnbc.com/id/46041908
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
1:41 pm
R. Danneskjold — “Dodd-Frank continues to crush the economy.”
S&P’s up ~50% since Obama was inaugurated.
Crush me some more, baybee.
ragnar danneskjold
January 18th, 2012
1:42 pm
Dear Jay, are your aware of that provision of Dodd-Frank that created a dictator for Consumer Affairs? No rational businessman will contemplate expansion when such a rogue government, not subject to any oversight by elected representatives, is loose in the land. Typical leftist overlord lunacy.
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
1:42 pm
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2012
1:35 pm
“Oh and Thulsa
Do you also think they couldn’t improve their short game?”- granny
Granny, Of that we can both be certain. Their long game too.
Talking Head
January 18th, 2012
1:42 pm
1 in 3 adults are now considered obese…thanks haliburton
ragnar danneskjold
January 18th, 2012
1:42 pm
Dear Joe, we would agree that ObamaCare is the main reason that employment does not rise.
Brosephus
January 18th, 2012
1:43 pm
“You’re gonna need a bigger boat.”
– Thomas Jefferson
Jay
January 18th, 2012
1:44 pm
Dear Jay, are your aware of that provision of Dodd-Frank that created a dictator for Consumer Affairs? No rational businessman will contemplate expansion when such a rogue government, not subject to any oversight by elected representatives, is loose in the land. Typical leftist overlord lunacy.
In other words, your argument is nothing more than children’s talk about dragons, witches and ogres.
Notable Quotables
January 18th, 2012
1:44 pm
I should have stuck with making B movies. At least I only sucked at that. — Ronald Reagan
Kamchak
January 18th, 2012
1:44 pm
“But don’t tell my heart, my achy breaky heart
I just don’t think it’d understand
And if you tell my heart, my achy breaky heart
He might blow up and kill this man”
– Thomas Jefferson.
Mick
January 18th, 2012
1:44 pm
**No rational businessman will contemplate expansion when such a rogue government**
Dude, that is hogwash and ignores capitalism 101 – if I can sell it for a profit, sold…
Bruno
January 18th, 2012
1:45 pm
You mean like how Bill Clinton, the son of poor common folk who worked hard in school to be at the top of his class, get scholarships, and bust his behind to make a better life and achieve the American dream, was maligned for being “slick” and a “criminal” (even when he lost money on a real estate deal) by the Repubs who were telling us how great their silver-spoon, multi-generation, never-worked-for-it rich guys were?
Great story, Matti, though not completely accurate. For starters, “poor common folk” couldn’t afford color home movie cameras in the early 1960s. Yet, color home movies of Clinton exist today. Per his rise to the top through scholarship, that is to be admired, and has nothing to do with his “slick” label. That arose from his difficulty in telling the truth later in life. Per Whitewater, I understand that the Clintons lost some money. That isn’t the issue, however. The issue is that his buddies drew loans from a savings and loan knowing that they wouldn’t have to pay back the loans when the bank was declared insolvent.
Nice try, though.
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2012
1:45 pm
Talking Head
You actually defend that mess of a pipeline?
EEEK.
md
January 18th, 2012
1:46 pm
“Also, kindly note the millionaire paid 15% and the person making 50k paid 25%.”
And then kindly note that Adam is comparing apples to oranges in the hope that no one will notice….
They BOTH suck
January 18th, 2012
1:46 pm
Ragnar
“No rational businessman will contemplate expansion ”
If current or projected demand dictates hiring,,,,,,,,, companies are will hire………..
This notion that most companies are just going to tell current and prospective clients that they can’t provide the service or product because of Dodd Frank is absurd……… You know it is and frankly a LIE
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
1:47 pm
ME – “BUtch
are you suggesting that anything over 200k is hoarding and thus not necessary?”
I guess it depends on your point of view. I made significantly more than that when I was a broker, and I make a few figures above that now that I’m retired. However, I ‘ll never agree that anyone needs to make 400 times what another individual makes and then complain about anything.
Mitt Romney Taxes And Speaking Fees Comments Draw Fire | Neon Tommy
January 18th, 2012
1:47 pm
[...] liability so far, but the former Bain Capital chief executive and former Massachusetts Gov. is now taking fire for comments he made about his income from speaking fees. Mitt Romney in 2010 (Creative [...]
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
1:47 pm
Jay and Joe Mama,
S&P is up, corporate profits are at an all time high, and the Dow is way up all because as Jay has pointed out in at least one article before and as many liberals have lamented companies are “hoarding” cash. They are becoming cash cows as we’ve discussed plenty of times. Easy to have record profits when you’re not spending monies on new hiring, new expansion, new R&D, all of which are enormous cash drains. Gee, I wonder why they are sitting on the sidelines with Obama in office??? That is the $64,000 question and the one you should be asking- why do they have no faith in the economy under Obama?
Kamchak
January 18th, 2012
1:47 pm
“Lion and tigers and bears, oh my”
– Thomas Jefferson
ME
January 18th, 2012
1:48 pm
tax, tax, tax… we must tax everything thats the answer
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
1:48 pm
R. Danneskjold — “Dear Joe, we would agree that ObamaCare is the main reason that employment does not rise.”
We would not.
Besides, hiring and capital expenditures usually track *very* closely, and there was a notable and significant increase in business capital expenditures last year. If businesses won’t hire because of ‘uncertainty,’ then it’s quite difficult to explain why they’d invest in new equipment, vehicles, manufacturing gear and IT setups if that selfsame ‘uncertainty’ casts such a pall over the business outlook.
Notable Quotables
January 18th, 2012
1:48 pm
I’m evil. — Dick Cheney
Bruno
January 18th, 2012
1:48 pm
md–Sorry you’re stuck with all the heavy lifting today. Of course, considering the weakness of the Lib counterarguments, I doubt if you even broke a sweat.
Back in a few to discuss a new book touted on the Hannity show last night called “Ameritopia”. A lot of ideas worth considering regarding the future of our country.
JohnnyReb
January 18th, 2012
1:48 pm
The Left’s beloved Bill Clinton has reported receivng in excess of 80 million for speeches over the last 6 or 7 years. So, Romney’s 374K truly is not very much comparitively. Plus, it may be difficult for some in the 99% to comprehend, but when you have as much money as does Mitt, it is not unusual to actually not know how much has been received for speeches. He does not dwell on it. What all should be looking at is, there is a wealthy American who does not need the lifelong security of being POTUS who wants the office for all the right reasons.
Notable Quotables
January 18th, 2012
1:49 pm
We must have more tax cuts so we can pay off our 14 trillion dollar debt. — Typical Republican
Bruno
January 18th, 2012
1:50 pm
Doom–I see you’re on board now. I can go back to work in peace, knowing that you and md together have more firepower than the whole Lib contingency today.
josef
January 18th, 2012
1:50 pm
“I didn’t have sex with that woman.” –Thomas Jefferson
Notable Quotables
January 18th, 2012
1:50 pm
When I need the truth, I just splice it together from old videos. — Sean Hannity
Mick
January 18th, 2012
1:51 pm
**why do they have no faith in the economy under Obama?**
Maybe it’s not obama they are worried about. After all, they already know that he is an avowed communist/socialist. No, it’s the european market that has them spooked and they know they are socialists too, what to do? Keep sending it to communist china, yes that’s the ticket…
BigD
January 18th, 2012
1:52 pm
Bad rich man…Bad rich man…If you Liberals spent less time kissing each others butts and more time DOING SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE you may just become one of those rich guys.
It’s not a bad life.
moonbat betty
January 18th, 2012
1:52 pm
“Look man, you can listen to Jimi but you can’t hear him. There’s a difference man. Just because you’re listening to him doesn’t mean you’re hearing him.” ~ Mitt to Obama
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
1:52 pm
For starters, “poor common folk” couldn’t afford color home movie cameras in the early 1960s. Yet, color home movies of Clinton exist today
Color envy! And a thin thread without relevant fact to build on. How silly!
md
January 18th, 2012
1:53 pm
“Corporate profits at record highs.”
Come on Jay, you are supposed to be a “journalist”……..in which case you should use the word “some”, and clarify that it is hardly the majority…….unless…..
Mick
January 18th, 2012
1:53 pm
bruno
Hannity? Boy, now we know you’ve got the proper cred…
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
1:54 pm
BigD – “If you Liberals spent less time kissing each others butts and more time DOING SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE you may just become one of those rich guys.”
I’m already rich and retired. What, I have to go back to work just to prove a point to a schmuck like you?
He's Not One Of Us
January 18th, 2012
1:54 pm
@Stephenson Billings
January 18th, 2012
11:40 am
“Since1971, the average American family has seen almost NO financial benefit from their own rising productivity.”
Shoot. I guess I’ll just stop trying then. Where’s my food stamps?
________________________________________________________
I am retired and I got a foster child. My income was cut by 50%.
I applied for food stamps in the small county where I live.
They told me I made too much money.
The shame of it is that I took a child out of foster care and gave them a home. clothes, food, etc. but the government could not help me feed this child.
So I did what I was going to do anyway give this child a home, clothes, food, etc.
Notable Quotables
January 18th, 2012
1:54 pm
Why are Republicans in the dark. — Wikipedia
Talking Head
January 18th, 2012
1:55 pm
“Talking Head
You actually defend that mess of a pipeline?
EEEK.”
I support it because it will produce jobs, spur organic growth, and lessen the amount of money we send to the nut job in Iran. Also, the nut job is directly impacting my wallet since thirty percent of global seaborne crude shipments and 17 percent of oil traded worldwide passes through the Strait of Hormuz every day, so any additional production in a stable region such as the US or Canada will suffice.
They BOTH suck
January 18th, 2012
1:55 pm
Bruno
Is that the same hanitty who said he could handle being waterboarded then ignored the challenge?
That Sean Hanitty?
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
1:55 pm
Bruno — “For starters, “poor common folk” couldn’t afford color home movie cameras in the early 1960s. Yet, color home movies of Clinton exist today.”
I’m sure you have something more substantial than that on which to hang your charge of the Clintons not being “poor common folk.”
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
1:56 pm
Come on Jay, you are supposed to be a “journalist”……..in which case you should use the word “some”, and clarify that it is hardly the majority…….unless…..
This coming from the same poster who attributed all foreclosures as evidence of people not being able to afford their homes at the time of purchase.
Notable Quotables
January 18th, 2012
1:57 pm
We got rid of your taxes so when do we get those jobs. — The Conned
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
1:58 pm
Keep – “This coming from the same poster who attributed all foreclosures as evidence of people not being able to afford their homes at the time of purchase.”
No, No, No….He attributed the forclosures due to the lack of foresight in knowing that a catostrphic event might actually occur and wipe them out. You know, the kind of thing everyone thinks about when entering into the borrower/lender relationship.
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2012
1:59 pm
Talking Head
“oils sands crude…not just for breakfast anymore” Thomas Jefferson
Obama is over
January 18th, 2012
1:59 pm
Bill Clinton has earned $75.6mm from speaking engagements since leaving office in addition to the $30mm he made from book publishing. This includes $1mm from speaking at a conference sponsored by the private equity firm Renaissance Capital.I am sure that President Clinton paid the full load on his $100mm in earnings and just like Romney, is paying the 15% on his investment income today. The fact that the founder of Bain Capital has been successful and is wealthy should not be a surprise to anyone. If you remove the class warfare rhetoric from this conversation, it only proves that the United States tax system needs to be drastically reformed. Our tax code is grotesquely complex, often arbitrary, and corrupted by the back scratching relationship between our elected officials and influencial lobbyists. As far as the foreclosure situation goes, Obama’s proposal to address the REO properties on the Fannie/Freddie/FHA books (estimated to be 2mm homes) is to sell the portfolios to private investors to create low income housing. Of course, since most of these houses have been vacant for the past several years( while waiting on the Goverment to decide on what to do) they need significant investment to become habitable again. Thus, Obama is exploring yet another Federal bailout where guaranteed loans will be given to select private parties to purchase these housing portfolios to be rented to Government subsidized tenants. If it works, the private parties win and the housing agencies cut their losses at taxpayer expense. If it doesn’t work, the agencies take their losses, the private parties lose nothing and the taxpayers get stuck with another $50 Billion loan loss. In Obama’s world view, it doesn’t matter because all we have to do is tax the 1% and borrow more money. Next loss, the 85% default rate on government guaranteed student loans in the for profit college market….
BigD
January 18th, 2012
2:00 pm
BC …What can I say..you just said it all. This is why the country is in decline.
I could retire any time I choose as could many of my ilk,but I choose to make more and make a difference as an individual and not as a part of some tribe like mentality…as you obviously do.
Paul
January 18th, 2012
2:00 pm
Philosopher
“What’s your point? That millionaires shouldn’t contribute significantly to the church to which they belong?
I tell you what concerns me about this: Mittens repeatedly uses his “business experience” to tout how great he would be at turning the financial state of America around. Well, if you look at his “”business experience” and you see how he stepped over everyone, including his own dog, in his path and fired tens of thousands of real live human beings in his steamrolling path to furthering his great wealth…and in the process, contributed millions of dollars and stocks from the businesses he owned and worked for and gave that to further the “business” of the LDS, you should be concerned. His way of doing “business” is not OK by me. I guess we’ll find out in November if the majority of Americans want the Muslim, birth-certificateless, socialist out so bad that they will sell their souls for this….”
O-kaaay…. then how ’bout if he was Jewish and donated to a for-profit hospital and had a wing named after him?
Seems an awful lot of disguised anti-LDS sentiment out there looking for a way to be justified.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
2:00 pm
Keep Up, Butch, I found this earlier this week. You might find it interesting reading in view of your discussions with md. For that matter, md might find it interesting, too. but probably dismissable.
http://www.thereformedbroker.com/2012/01/17/robosigning-credit-cards-the-next-major-bank-scandal/
Talking Head
January 18th, 2012
2:00 pm
“If you build it, they will come.” – George Soros to Obama with regards to campaigning on class warfare to the sheeple
Jay's Gerbil
January 18th, 2012
2:01 pm
I’m sure this will all get paid back too.
http://news.yahoo.com/treasury-dips-pension-funds-avoid-debt-limit-202850021.html
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
2:03 pm
Butch…. and yet that same “lack of foresight” in a leveraged buyout when you operate a firm like Bain to buy a company on borrowed money, saddle the company with debt, pull out a bunch of fees to be taxed at a significantly lower rate than income for ordinary working people on the false claim that it is “at risk” when it never was, and to then put the company into bankruptcy and push the losses on to creditors and the federal government is somehow considered to be business savvy and leadership.
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
2:03 pm
Bruno,
I do have my flyswatter to swat away their nonsensical arguments. Bring on the librul sand fleas, gnats, and biting horseflies!
BigD
January 18th, 2012
2:05 pm
Granny ..you dope..there is already enough pipe line across the country to go to the Moon and you are worried about one more…just like I said TRIBE mentality…not a thought of your own.
BOB FROM ACCOUNT TEMPS
January 18th, 2012
2:05 pm
people, people, don’t be so obtuse. 2012 is a throw away election year for the repubs. come 2016 and 8 years of obama and the dems won’t be in the white house for 40 years.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
2:05 pm
Doom–I see you’re on board now. I can go back to work in peace, knowing that you and md together have more firepower than the whole Lib contingency today.
Between the Doomed Team and F Troop, the silly inane “I winning” Charlie Sheenism seem to be escalating. Hee Haw Salute!
md
January 18th, 2012
2:07 pm
“This coming from the same poster who attributed all foreclosures as evidence of people not being able to afford their homes at the time of purchase. ”
I believe it was you that added “at time of purchase”………..I merely contend that they evidently can not afford their purchase. If they could, would they not be paying for it now?
And Butch…..that post just makes you look silly and petty. Again, merely pointed out that all borrowing has risks……..and just because folks don’t think about catastrophic events happening does not equate to catastrophic events not factoring into the equation. I bet folks don’t plan for flooding outside the flood plain either……doesn’t mean it can’t happen (oops, I think it did). Not having flood insurance is another choice.
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
2:07 pm
Kam – I really dislike you right now. Putting that song in my head.
Bro – Yeah, thought I could shock you with the whole “my parents weren’t even married yet when Airplane came out thing.”
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
2:07 pm
“If you build it, they will come.” – George Soros to Obama with regards to campaigning on class warfare to the sheeple
Talking head,
Good one. But once they start feeding the class warfare hyperbole and rhetoric the sheeple turn from sheeple to rabid dawgs. Not quite lions mind you but still rabid, dangerous dawgs. They loves that raw meat in the form of the class warfare rhetoric. Loves it!
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2012
2:10 pm
BigD
and we are at least for the moment Preventing another….
oh and for the “you dope”
you get a choice between a big flaming “moron” or an ignorant “asshat”
which would you like?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
2:10 pm
“This coming from the same poster who attributed all foreclosures as evidence of people not being able to afford their homes at the time of purchase. ” I believe it was you that added “at time of purchase”………..I merely contend that they evidently can not afford their purchase
And yet you duck issue of numerous strategic defaults which have NOTHING to do with “affording the purchase.”
Must be getting in great shape with all that backpedaling.
md
January 18th, 2012
2:11 pm
Looked at your link Joe……what are you trying to say?
Credit cards are another borrowing choice……that carries risk. Everybody likes the upside while seemingly not even considering the downside.
Jefferson
January 18th, 2012
2:12 pm
Wealth envy is someone who thinks someone is actually worth say a 5 million salary. They should pulpwood for a month, they would undstand what a dollar is worth. Pulpwooders don’t make political contributions by the way, their labor is worth too much to them to just give out bribes.
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
2:12 pm
GG – I personally prefer “ignorant asshat” but it isn’t my choice, so I’ll leave that up to the two of you.
Guy Incognito
January 18th, 2012
2:12 pm
“Nothing’s over until we say it is. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor”?
-Maxine Waters
JOE Cool
January 18th, 2012
2:12 pm
“forced down our throats”-All Republicans & P0Rn Actors
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2012
2:12 pm
Looking forward to Mitt Romney running on a “Class Warfare” platform.
It will be an incredibly successul move for President Obama.
tee hee hee
envy and class warfare….
tee hee hee
bob
January 18th, 2012
2:14 pm
MM, if I build yachts will the middle class be buying them ?
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
2:15 pm
“My fear is that the whole island will become so overly populated that it will tip over and capsize,” Hank Johnson (D-GA) I know, I’m not playing the game, but that one is funny all on its own.
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
2:15 pm
“Between the Doomed Team and F Troop, the silly inane “I winning” Charlie Sheenism seem to be escalating. Hee Haw Salute!”-keep up
keep up,
Don’t worry keep. I’ll give you some attention. Just as soon as you can present a coherent, rational post. Hmmm. Then again maybe I won’t be talking to ya…
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
January 18th, 2012
2:16 pm
I maintain that you are a d*ck.
Well, seems to me this guy is cutting right to the chase. I see people spend weeks on this blog arguing with other people before they finally get around to saying what they think. If more people was this honest we could get new sheets real quick.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
2:16 pm
md — “Looked at your link Joe……what are you trying to say?”
“Credit cards are another borrowing choice……that carries risk. Everybody likes the upside while seemingly not even considering the downside.”
As I’ve told you before, it’s impossible for borrowers to engage in any kind of meaningful consideration of the downside when there are numerous undisclosed risks, not the least of which is that the lenders seem to feel free to skip certain mandated procedures and to leave out certain regulatorially required processes.
Paul
January 18th, 2012
2:18 pm
Jefferson
Ever read about Carlos Ghosn, who took over Nissan when it was near to failing? There are tens of thousands of people who owe their jobs to him. Dealers, suppliers, second-tier businesses, too. I kinda think he was worth every dollar he was paid.
Afternoon, Granny
“Looking forward to Mitt Romney running on a “Class Warfare” platform.”
Has he indicated this is his strategy? I thought it was “Pres Obama had his chance to turn this economy around, he fumbled while undergoing on the job training and I’ve got the experience he’s still trying to get.”
Keith
January 18th, 2012
2:19 pm
It is amazing how the media can try to distort the facts. John Kerry had an effective tax rate of
12% when he ran for President and a net worth nearly $1Billion (because of marriage to Heinz).
I don’t care about how much money they have or made…..good for them. We just need a leader to get us out of this mess. Obama has only prolonged it.
md
January 18th, 2012
2:19 pm
“and yet that same “lack of foresight” in a leveraged buyout when you operate a firm like Bain to buy a company on borrowed money, saddle the company with debt, pull out a bunch of fees to be taxed at a significantly lower rate than income for ordinary working people on the false claim that it is “at risk” when it never was”
The risk is ALWAYS there……..we don’t know when unplanned events will occur……ever. In your scenario, what happens to that capital if the dollar suddenly crashed on the day after closing…..that asset is suddenly worth next to nothing, and their capital gone……..
It’s all a game of timing………don’t like the risk, don’t play the game. DON”T borrow money……don’t put money in the bank……buy gold, diamonds, moon rocks……whatever.
ALL choices.
Tiffany's Acct Mgr
January 18th, 2012
2:20 pm
I, the smartest man in the buffet line, newt gingrich, has decided to stay in the race until my Tiffany’s account is completely paid off. Now, how can I raise more money from these dumb fools? I know, I will hold a press conference and tell the entire world that minorities destroyed the world’s economy by spending all of their money on Ipads and new Air Jordans. That news conference should at least pay for third wife’s earrings, or is it my third mistress…………………..
Obama declared War in Iraq!!!!
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
2:22 pm
Fellow cons,
Ya’ll shoulda brought the libs some bibs this morning. All that raw meat Jay been feeding them they are really frothing at the mouth today with the class warfare stuff. Its a droolfest.
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2012
2:22 pm
Mitt Romney: Class Warrior
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
2:24 pm
The risk is ALWAYS there…
And yet you fault the ones who buy a home as “failures and losers” but reward the one who does it on a mass scale by trying to elect him President and saying he is “successful”.
md
January 18th, 2012
2:25 pm
“As I’ve told you before, it’s impossible for borrowers to engage in any kind of meaningful consideration of the downside when there are numerous undisclosed risks, not the least of which is that the lenders seem to feel free to skip certain mandated procedures and to leave out certain regulatorially required processes.”
Hmmm…….if you know this, shouldn’t others? And shouldn’t their decisions/choices reflect that unknown?? You seem to be saying the same thing……beware the unknown, as it does exist. In every transaction………
Adam
January 18th, 2012
2:25 pm
Butch: You know, the kind of thing everyone thinks about when entering into the borrower/lender relationship.
Exactly.
And Bruno calls that “more firepower” and “heavy lifting.” The argument that everyone should know ahead of time what they will definitely be able to afford in 30 years time is idiotic.
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
2:27 pm
md -”It’s all a game of timing………don’t like the risk, don’t play the game. DON”T borrow money”
Hey everybody, md wants to dismantle our monetary system. md, why do you hate America?
Talking Head
January 18th, 2012
2:29 pm
“What goes up, must come down.” – Obama on American prosperity
Adam
January 18th, 2012
2:29 pm
md: I merely contend that they evidently can not afford their purchase
So you’re Monday Morning Quaerterbacking all foreclosures? I mean, I do honestly get that you see things in exactly this way, that everyone SHOULD HAVE known that they wouldn’t be able to afford their mortgages over a 30 year time frame and never should have gotten them in the first place because of that, however when you say “They bought what they couldn’t afford,” not a single rational reasonable human being is going to take that to mean “They bought what they would eventually not be able to afford.” Reasonable and rational human beings hear that and KNOW that you mean “at the time of purchase.” It does not need to be “added.”
md
January 18th, 2012
2:29 pm
“And yet you fault the ones who buy a home as “failures and losers” but reward the one who does it on a mass scale by trying to elect him President and saying he is “successful”.”
Assume much? Can you show me where I ever said anything about “failures and losers”.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
2:29 pm
md — “Hmmm…….if you know this, shouldn’t others?”
I only read that article yesterday. There’s little confirmation of it as yet, but it certainly looks suspicious.
“And shouldn’t their decisions/choices reflect that unknown??”
Are you going to jabber like Don Rumsfeld about “unknown unknowns?”
“You seem to be saying the same thing……beware the unknown, as it does exist. In every transaction………”
Undisclosed material facts do not = unknown, since, as you observe above, they were known to *somebody.*. In fact, in many business transactions, the discovery of undisclosed material facts (known by the seller but not presented to the prospective buyer) can give the buyer a legal means to get out of an unfavorable deal.
GT
January 18th, 2012
2:30 pm
The entitlement thing that the right thinks is only the poor plays here too. The rich think they have superior minds because they have money, they think they make money by themselves no infrastructure public schooling or whatever and that advantages of birth are not their secret recipe to success.
No secret recipe about a black man that can’t get a cab because of his color. Who loses votes because he is black and people take liberties with the truth about him because they belong to a club that believes all is fair in what you say, right or wrong, about a black person. No wonder Obama’s first lady is able to walk around Washington D.C. unnoticed. I am sure in the minds of many a black first lady has not registered yet.
My wife left my car radio on a far right talk show this morning and I though it was a tape of the 1950s, except the man was using lazy asses and black asses to explain himself. You could picture in his argue this man spinning on the mick getting his defense out that he was not a biot and had been with his cronies falsely accused. I had not realized how far the establishment had vied off course, a very thinly veiled racism sponsor by a once trusted news source. I wonder if this is how Nazi Germany came around to killing Jews, one sorry step at a time? I will tell you if they start killing blacks, Romney will be a few weeks away from hearing about it in his world, not much different than Bush and New Orleans. They just don’t care.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
2:31 pm
Doom: But once they start feeding the class warfare hyperbole
Stop talking about the GOP that way! Frank Luntz says “class warfare” doesn’t work as an argument (after initially floating the idea in the first place, but it’s best not to worry about such minutia.)
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
2:31 pm
In other news, Separated At Birth: John Yoo and Kim Jong Un.
http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/36287.html
md
January 18th, 2012
2:32 pm
“Hey everybody, md wants to dismantle our monetary system. md, why do you hate America?”
Again with the silliness Butch?
I said if one doesn’t want to play the game……and the game includes RISK. Don’t want the risk then find another game.
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
2:32 pm
Folks getting into credit card debt? Yep. Definitely the fault of credit card companies and all them “undisclosed fees”. Has nothing to do with poor choices or folks living beyond their means, financial ignorance,not reading your credit card agreement, or just out and out stupidity. I loves me liberal excuse land. Its pert near as much fun as liberal fantasyland.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
2:34 pm
Doom — “Folks getting into credit card debt? Yep. Definitely the fault of credit card companies and all them “undisclosed fees”. Has nothing to do with poor choices or folks living beyond their means, financial ignorance,not reading your credit card agreement, or just out and out stupidity. I loves me liberal excuse land. Its pert near as much fun as liberal fantasyland.”
Rather than guessing what the article’s about, you should probably read it.
md
January 18th, 2012
2:34 pm
Adam……do you ever plan for unplanned events?
Auto insurance in case of accident? Tornadoes? Extended warranties?
Hmmm…..all unplanned events.
So explain to me when buying a major purchase such as a house one wouldn’t consider what might happen if one were to not have the same income that the decision is based on??
Ernest T. Bass
January 18th, 2012
2:35 pm
This just confirms what we already knew.
Despite Fox News shouting the contrary from the mountain tops the rich really dont pay much in taxes at all.
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
2:36 pm
“Frank Luntz says “class warfare” doesn’t work as an argument”
I dunno there Adam.Envy is a pretty powerful emotion. That’s why for the religious folk on here the bible has a commandment about envy. Apparently God knew its a perty serious emotion. What are you doing watching faux news anyhow Adam?
Midori
January 18th, 2012
2:37 pm
What? Over? Did you say “over”? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! — Moonbat Betty
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
2:38 pm
Ernest T. Bass,
So all those IRS tables that show the top 1% of income earners pay nearly 40% of the total tax burden are all fictional? Who knew?
md
January 18th, 2012
2:38 pm
“Undisclosed material facts do not = unknown, since, as you observe above, they were known to *somebody.*. In fact, in many business transactions, the discovery of undisclosed material facts (known by the seller but not presented to the prospective buyer) can give the buyer a legal means to get out of an unfavorable deal.”
After this latest fiasco with the housing market, I would certainly hope folks would have a built in component of mistrust when entering into any transaction…….otherwise, the “fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me” statement is applicable……
Midori
January 18th, 2012
2:39 pm
Cocaine is a helluva drug — Talking Head
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
2:40 pm
Joe Mama,
I wasn’t commenting on any specific article. I was just commenting. Its allowed on here ya know.
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2012
2:40 pm
Mitt Romney: Envy Warrior
Doesn’t sound near as good.
“Need something catchy. Something snappy. Something Upbeat”
Finn McCool
January 18th, 2012
2:40 pm
Hey, this sounds like a Conservative’s actions in the face of responsibility:
A farcical new twist emerged from the horrific accounts of the wreck, with the captain saying he tripped during the passenger panic on deck, fell overboard and ended up in a life boat.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
2:41 pm
md: So explain to me when buying a major purchase such as a house one wouldn’t consider what might happen if one were to not have the same income that the decision is based on??
1) This does not take into consideration that one’s job will simply disappear with NO CHANCE of replacing it for close to a year or more due to a Great Recession.
2) This also does not take into account that happening to two people in the same household.
3) This does not take into account someone with a 30 year mortgage who has paid 25 of those years and gets foreclosed on
etc etc but you get the point I am making, I am sure.
People who have always been moving upward or stayed the same for a good portion of their lives in terms of income have NO REASON to think there will be a dramatic shift like that. So there is your answer. Most people have had their wages stay the same or increase slightly over the past 30 years. Anyone with enough of a history of that, say 10 years, has no reason to think they will experience a sudden misfortune that is completely outside of their control to deal with, such as a major economic collapse.
It’s all fun to sit here and go “well you should have seen that the economy would collapse, taking your home with it, 10, 20, 30 years ago.” Except that it’s not reasonable to think that ANYONE would have that expectation.
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
2:44 pm
Midori
January 18th, 2012
2:39 pm
Cocaine is a helluva drug — Talking Head
So is raw meat fed to a rabid, frothing librul.
Adam
January 18th, 2012
2:45 pm
Doom: What are you doing watching faux news anyhow Adam?
I would say “trying to keep you guys honest” but I realize that if it comes from Rush, Hannity, or Fox that’s impossible as a goal.
But seriously the envy argument is even worse than the class warfare one. Only people secure in their finances are going to respond to that favorably, thinking everyone beneath them is trying to steal from them. And the people who are poor or who believe in JUSTICE will NOT respond favorably because it is incorrect to say the only reason to criticize someone who has more money than you is jealousy.
BTW, the “You’re just full of wealth envy” argument is DIVIDING OUR COUNTRY, and it is SOLELY an argument the conservatives use.
Talking Head
January 18th, 2012
2:47 pm
“There’s no place like home.” – Obama on his birthplace (you’re guess is as good as mine)
md
January 18th, 2012
2:47 pm
Boy Adam……you might want to go visit a financial planner…….the first thing they will tell you is to have a 6 month supply of cash in an emergency fund for the “unknown”. Money to pay the bills, keep the house, etc during unplanned “events”. With your above list of excuses, I can certainly understand why you say the things you do……….
And that 6 month stash is also a choice………
And I’ll leave the rest of your post alone……it’s just too baffling to comment.
Notable Quotables
January 18th, 2012
2:47 pm
If you elect me, I’ll bring back the thousand and the ten thousand dollar bill so we don’t have to carry around so much change. — Mitt Romney
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
2:47 pm
Finn McCool
January 18th, 2012
2:40 pm
Hey, this sounds like a Conservative’s actions in the face of responsibility:
“A farcical new twist emerged from the horrific accounts of the wreck, with the captain saying he tripped during the passenger panic on deck, fell overboard and ended up in a life boat.”- finn
Well when the authorities grilled him and asked him what was he doing in a life boat he could have taken a page out of the Bill Clinton perjury book and asked “What is the definition of “was” in the life boat”.
Erwin's cat
January 18th, 2012
2:48 pm
Adam – “Except that it’s not reasonable to think that ANYONE would have that ”
yes it is, if you have lived long enough or read enough history…this is not the first time the economy has gone in the toilet and it won’t be the last…prepare for it…plan for it …and survive it!
YOUR party SUCKS! But MINE is GRRRRRREAT! (formally That Black Guy)
January 18th, 2012
2:50 pm
I think I should volunteer my time helping disadvantaged children learn to read. Actually, a lot of people in my situation think we should.
But we won’t until the gov’t makes EVERYONE volunteer as well.
I mean, it’s my stated position and I REALLY believe it, trust me I do.
But I won’t do it until EVERYONE has to.
Besides, it wouldn’t make a dent in childhood literacy rates unless EVERYONE does it.
But I stand by my principle that I should voulnteer, but ONLY when EVERYONE else is required to.
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
2:51 pm
“the first thing they will tell you is to have a 6 month supply of cash in an emergency fund for the “unknown””- md
md,
There you go again md. Making the assumption that what is common sense prudent planning to conservatives is also common sense to liberals.
md
January 18th, 2012
2:51 pm
“Except that it’s not reasonable to think that ANYONE would have that expectation.”
Actually, it’s quite reasonable to think that EVERYONE should think about that expectation……hence part of the problem…….too many must be thinking like you do…….floating along in life thinking nothing bad will ever happen.
News Flash Adam…….it’s best to plan for the worst and wish for the best……if the worst does not come, then one should be sitting pretty.
Don’t plan for the worst………well, you’ll probably find out.
Midori
January 18th, 2012
2:52 pm
I can’t believe I threw up in front of Dean Wormer. –thelma doom
Midori
January 18th, 2012
2:53 pm
Dad! Mom, Dad, this is Larry Kroger. The boy who molested me last month. We have to get married. –TD
md
January 18th, 2012
2:54 pm
“There you go again md. Making the assumption that what is common sense prudent planning to conservatives is also common sense to liberals”
I think some of them have the same accounts……they just don’t belong to them. That’s that 60% that votes for “others” to fix the problem…….
YOUR party SUCKS! But MINE is GRRRRRREAT! (formally That Black Guy)
January 18th, 2012
2:55 pm
I also noticed noone commented on Pauls 10:49 post. Knida runs counter to some of the points made here.
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
2:55 pm
BTW, the “You’re just full of wealth envy” argument is DIVIDING OUR COUNTRY, and it is SOLELY an argument the conservatives use.- Adam
Adam,
Seriously? The wealth envy argument is only played by the cons? Obama and his “the rich need to pay their fair share”, “millionaires and billionaires”, and the OWS protests? None of that has anything to do with wealth envy? Its “SOLELY” the cons? None of the OWS protests about Wall St, wealthy people, none of that is divisive?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
2:55 pm
Wow a 6 month supply of cash…. great if you can save it…and once you do, a nice cushion, unless of course the economy hits an historic almost depresson and you’re out of work for over 18 months.
But it looks so nice on the bumper sticker.
YOUR party SUCKS! But MINE is GRRRRRREAT! (formally That Black Guy)
January 18th, 2012
2:57 pm
Obama’s new head of OMB is from Bain Capital.
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
2:57 pm
Looks like Midori got into the old Animal House movie quotes vault and is having a heyday.Isn’t it just cute. Reminds me of when I gave my 5 year old niece some new horseys to play with at Christmas.
Notable Quotables
January 18th, 2012
2:59 pm
I planned for the worse but the end did not come. — Retired Preacher
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
3:00 pm
“Wow a 6 month supply of cash…. great if you can save it…and once you do,”
The excuse crowd do loves their job. Saving up a 6 month supply of cash. I know lots of people that have that- and more. Its called planning, living below your means, saving, investing, all the things that the excuse makers and their minions are too damn stupid or undisciplined to figure out.
Granny Godzilla
January 18th, 2012
3:00 pm
Read somethingmade me go mmmmmmmmmm….
suggests that Romneys 2011 tax returns would be nice to see but
2010, 2009, 2008 etc might provide better info.
what say ye?
Talking Head
January 18th, 2012
3:00 pm
“I remember my first beer.” – Obama at the ‘Beer Summit’ after accusing the police officer of ‘acting stupidly’ for arresting his pal the professor.
moonbat betty
January 18th, 2012
3:01 pm
You cursed brat! Look what you’ve done! I’m melting! melting! Oh, what a world! What a world! Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness? Oooooh, look out! I’m going! Oooooh! Ooooooh!”
~midori to moonbat betty
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
3:01 pm
md – “So explain to me when buying a major purchase such as a house one wouldn’t consider what might happen if one were to not have the same income that the decision is based on??”
Interesting. Lets see, someone works for lets say a paper company with 10 years in on the job. Decides to buy a home, becuase after 10 years they feel financially secure enough to do so. Then, after 5 years, some ass hat called Bain Capitol buys the company and fires them and makes them interview for their job. They get re-hired, but their making less. Then, said ass hat decides to fold up shop and head on down the road leaving them with 0 income. This is what you propose an individual take into account when buying a home?
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
3:01 pm
Doom — “I wasn’t commenting on any specific article. I was just commenting. Its allowed on here ya know.”
Well, then, by all means, read it and consider how it might apply to your investment portfolio, then.
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
3:02 pm
Formerly black guy,
Say it aint so that Obama’s new chief of OMB is from Bain Capital? Oh lawdy we gonna have a lotta fun with the Bain Capital card if that’s true.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
3:03 pm
B. Cassidy — “Then, said ass hat decides to fold up shop and head on down the road leaving them with 0 income.”
I propose we call this ‘Crash and Bain.’
Marietta Al
January 18th, 2012
3:04 pm
Why do liberals always worry what the other guy makes? If you worried a lot less about others and focused on your own goals/ambitions, you’d be a whole lot happier group of people.
Matti
January 18th, 2012
3:05 pm
Anyone can save a six-month supply of cash! Even a single parent whose job got outsourced to India! It’s easy! Just STOP feeding your children. They’ll be okay without food for a few months, and hey, if they get sick, forget the doctor and medicine (too expensive!) Just let them die, then you’ll have more food for yourself while you’re saving money. Learn to live without electricity. Laundry? Fuhgetaboudit. Just decide not to stink.
It’s all about having the kind of personal character our friends md and Thulsa Doom have. (You know, the pillars of America who are busy solving problems while your stupid kids are whining about being hungry.)
Talking Head
January 18th, 2012
3:06 pm
“However many jobs might be generated by a Keystone pipeline,” he said, “they’re going to be a lot fewer than the jobs that are created by extending the payroll tax cut and extending unemployment insurance.”
-Acutal Obama quote
http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/obama-more-jobs-jobless-benefits-keystone/244871
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
3:06 pm
I do wish Romney would release his tax returns. It would make such a phenomenal difference in the life of everyone on here. Hunger would dissappear in America, everyone would have a job, no one would lose their home.The difference in our lives would be sooo much better if he would just release those tax returns.
Notable Quotables
January 18th, 2012
3:06 pm
If I’m elected, the first thing I will do is create the one million dollar bill because a six-month supply of cash should readily fit in your money clip so you will have it on you in a golfing emergency or in case you lose a friendly wager against a fellow candidate. — Mitt Romney
md
January 18th, 2012
3:08 pm
“Wow a 6 month supply of cash…. great if you can save it…and once you do, a nice cushion, unless of course the economy hits an historic almost depresson and you’re out of work for over 18 months.
But it looks so nice on the bumper sticker.”
Is it any wonder we are where we are when folks poo poo prudent and sound financial advice as just a bumper sticker?
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
3:08 pm
Thulsa Doom – ” It would make such a phenomenal difference in the life of everyone on here. Hunger would dissappear in America, everyone would have a job, no one would lose their home.”
Please share this thought with those that still want to see Obamas Transcripts and Birth Certificate. I don’t think they got this messgae.
Thomas
January 18th, 2012
3:09 pm
With Wikipedia down I am completely lost. Who is Mitt Romney- is Dukakis running against him? How is Dale Murphy doing this year?
Mighty Righty
January 18th, 2012
3:09 pm
Exactly how many millions of dollars has Obama made, all of it since he became a government employee? What a joke. Obama has become wealthy by pretending to favor poor people. Sorry Jay, the wealth envy card will only work with a few dummies that will buy into anything.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
3:09 pm
Saving up a 6 month supply of cash. I know lots of people that have that- and more. Its called planning, living below your means, saving, investing, all the things that the excuse makers and their minions are too damn stupid or undisciplined to figure out
The Doomed Team do love their unsupported claims of everyone must be like the people I claim know and knowing all sorts of things that they really “don’t’ know.” But the doomed minions are too damn stupid or undisciplined to figure it out.
Welcome to the Occupation
January 18th, 2012
3:10 pm
Why do liberals always worry what the other guy makes? If you worried a lot less about others and focused on your own goals/ambitions, you’d be a whole lot happier group of people.
Jaw. Slacked.
md
January 18th, 2012
3:12 pm
Interesting. Lets see, someone works for lets say a paper company with 10 years in on the job. “Decides to buy a home, becuase after 10 years they feel financially secure enough to do so. Then, after 5 years, some ass hat called Bain Capitol buys the company and fires them and makes them interview for their job. They get re-hired, but their making less. Then, said ass hat decides to fold up shop and head on down the road leaving them with 0 income. This is what you propose an individual take into account when buying a home?”
Just because one has 10 years on the job does not remove the inherent risk of the transaction……that sounds like emotion vs financial planning.
But yes, one would and should take that into account when making a major purchase.
Go sit with the older generation and ask them about their buying habits……you won’t get the answers/excuses you see on these boards. They scrimped and saved…….then made the purchase.
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
3:12 pm
“Learn to live without electricity”- Matti
Matti it do beg the question how the hell mankind lived in the past 6,000 years of recorded history without electricity. Musta been turrible. Just turrible.
“You know, the pillars of America who are busy solving problems while your stupid kids are whining about being hungry”- Matti
Matti, you got me there. I have indeed been shirking my responsibilites of taking care of other people’s children for them. I’ll try and do a better job of taking care of other people’s kids for them. But first I gotta help them billion people that the world bank says live on $2 a day or less around the world. I figure they need it more than the obese kids in public housing.
Lucifer
January 18th, 2012
3:14 pm
Shades of Leona Helmsley: “Only little guys pay taxes.”
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
3:14 pm
md – “They scrimped and saved…….then made the purchase.”
So you’re saying a home mortgage is a relatively new creation?
Midori
January 18th, 2012
3:15 pm
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son. — Midori to Thulsa Doom
Matti
January 18th, 2012
3:15 pm
Thusla,
Jesus forgives you. (Or so I’m told.)
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
January 18th, 2012
3:15 pm
Well, I say old Thulsa is right. You got to plan ahead and think what things are going to be like in 20 or 30 yrs. You can’t be too careful. My buddy Joe Bill ain’t had a job in 10 years because he’s afraid to go outside unless it’s night time. Says there’s all this space junk floating around up there and one day it’s going to fall and kill somebody. Says he knows so far it’s all fell in the ocean, but one day it’s going to fall right on somebody’s head and it won’t be his head.
That’s the kind of thinking we need in this world.
Me, if I had half a year’s living saved up I’d retire right now. I’d make it stretch to a year and then another year and one day I’d be able to get Social Security if the Conservative Republicans ain’t got rid of it by then.
Planning. That’s what you need.
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
3:15 pm
“The Doomed Team do love their unsupported claims of everyone must be like the people I claim know and knowing all sorts of things that they really “don’t’ know.””
keep up got his excuse machine in overdrive. He’s gonna burn his excuse machine up from overuse.
md
January 18th, 2012
3:16 pm
Go for it Mattii…….try to make the exception into the norm……or is Obama really doing a much worse job than he says he is?
I’d hazard a guess most folks have some kind of discretionary income……now, what do they do with it is the question. Sure, there are some down on their luck, etc…..wonder how many of them opted out of assistance program #1……
philosopher
January 18th, 2012
3:17 pm
Yes, and let’s do look back-or hell still presently, at how many times the cons have asked for, received and then demanded a long form, of President Obama’s birth certificate.
Bring on the tax returns and LET THE FUN BEGIN.
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
3:19 pm
“Planning. That’s what you need.”- Redneck convert
See. Even Redneck Convert gets it- who woulda thunk he would get it? Even libruls are not beyond hope.
md
January 18th, 2012
3:19 pm
“So you’re saying a home mortgage is a relatively new creation?”
No…..and neither are foreclosures.
Choices my dear Watson…….choices.
Mighty Righty
January 18th, 2012
3:19 pm
“However many jobs might be generated by a Keystone pipeline,” he said, “they’re going to be a lot fewer than the jobs that are created by extending the payroll tax cut and extending unemployment insurance.”
-Acutal Obama quote
Funny how Democrats spend years arguing tax cuts don’t stimulate the economy, but this particular cut will per noone less than Obummer himself. Also it is funniy how this particular “tax cut” is actually steraling money from Social Security which means it is cominig from the workers future earnings! Just keep drinking the kool ade, you liberals are going to pay the piper.
ME
January 18th, 2012
3:19 pm
I not only want to see Mitts taxes, That fat cat should tell us how much money he has in the bank, what kind of car he drives, the thread count his sheets are, and how many times a month he and his wife have relations.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
3:20 pm
Wow, when Jimmy Stewart said in that movie where he jumps off the bridge that the banks money is invested in your home and your home and your home, the movie ended because each of those people said “why no Jimmy, we scrimped and saved and bought those homes on our own without no loans”. And when all those homes and farms were lost to foreclosure in the Great Depression it was because they scrimped and save and then made the purchase.
Why its time to take our country back to that older generational time that …. exists only in the mind of the Doomed Team.
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
3:21 pm
Midori
January 18th, 2012
3:15 pm
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son. — Midori to Thulsa Doom
Holy cow. Midori is wearing out the Animal House quote vault. I wonder if she will ever come up with something original? Who am I kidding?
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
3:22 pm
Btw, I’m sitting at a restaurant on 9th and 16th, and I see a lot of people eating and walking around. Perhaps I need to inform them they are not planning accordingly and that even leaving the comfort of their homes poses risks that they may not have considered.
md
January 18th, 2012
3:25 pm
Amazing how folks here like to inject silly thoughts into what others have said. Don’t recall anyone saying folks should not use mortgages………..but it is telling how many must think mortgages are a risk free instrument……………
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
3:25 pm
Matti
January 18th, 2012
3:15 pm
Thusla,
“Jesus forgives you. (Or so I’m told.)”
Matti, yes. He forgives all of us. Especially the hyper judgemental ones so there’s good news for you too!
A question?
January 18th, 2012
3:26 pm
Butch, arent 9th and 16th about 7 blocks about from each other?
md
January 18th, 2012
3:26 pm
That Butch….he does like to be silly…..and dramatic. Matti there with you? Drama King and Queen…..
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
3:27 pm
md – “Choices my dear Watson…….choices.”
Great, when will you be releasing your book on the top 10 most financially secure, guaranteed never to lay anyone off or close, lifetime of job security companies to work for?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
January 18th, 2012
3:27 pm
Don’t recall anyone saying folks should not use mortgages………..but it is telling how many must think mortgages are a risk free instrument……………
I don’t recall anyone saying mortgages are risk free…. you can point to someone actually making that claim, right? Talk about injecting silly thoughts and claims.
Donovan
January 18th, 2012
3:27 pm
I knew it was coming and I expected the typical hypocritical oration from the Democrat side, but once I actually read it from Bookman I can’t stomach the cheap class warfare crap that personifies the liberal assault from the Democrat Party.
It’s ok for Bill Clinton to have received $80 million dollars in the past 8 years for his speaking engagements, but it’s not ok for Mitt to receive his “small” amount from his speaking engagements. The liberal media was very silent about their darling Bill, weren’t they? As a matter of fact, the Democrat’s darling Bill has often bragged about how much he has been paid. HYPOCRITES!
It was ok for the richest candidate of all time, John Kerry, to sit on a $780 million dollar fortune, but not get chastised for it by the liberal media. HYPOCRITES!
Mitt donated all of the earnings from his books and never took a dime, whereas John Kerry gave zero contributions up until the time of his running. HYPOCRITES!
Mitt Romnery is wealthy due to his investments. The “tax laws of this country” allow him to be taxed at 15%. That’s the benefit of risking one’s money into all or nothing investments. You liberals can stop with the 1% distinction because it’s a cheap character assassination trick and a cheap form of group persuasion. You know it and I know it.
Mr. Bookman’s support and idolization of his party’s figurehead is disgusting for all the wrong reasons. He and all of his liberal goose steppers give praise to a president that claims to be fighting for the middle class. However, this presidential hypocrite lives like a king on the public dole and not his own money. His angry wife is famous for traveling in separate jets to destinations around the world and taking a vulgar entourage along for the ride. HYPOCRITES!
Every ounce of economic misery has come from Obama, Reid, Pelosi, and the Democrat rabble in Congress.
Now we have breaking news that Mr. Bookman’s hero has rejected the proposed pipeline from Canada. A project that would have created untold new jobs, lessened our dependence on foreign countries for energy, and allows China to replace us as a customer.
I am throughly disgusted by the antics of liberal class warfare. I am throughly disgusted by the way Democrats twist good into bad.
Those of you who support such retaliation are low class citizens and not worthy of the free air that you breathe. Although I am aware of your nervousness of losing the election, your contempt for good people shows your soiled character.
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
3:29 pm
keep up,
And since that time I believe the people from the great depression era that have recently died and the ones that are still alive have and will give us the greatest transfer of generational wealth in history.They recovered, lived frugally, prospered, and most of all saved their money. A little history lesson and some knowledge of that generation would perhaps help you out of your mudhole of liberal ignorance.
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
3:29 pm
A question? – “Butch, arent 9th and 16th about 7 blocks about from each other?
Sorry man, I should have said 9 East and 16th. Between Union Square West and 5th Ave.
My bad!
Welcome to the Occupation
January 18th, 2012
3:30 pm
Donovan: “I knew it was coming and I expected the typical hypocritical oration from the Democrat side, but once I actually read it from Bookman I can’t stomach the cheap class warfare crap that personifies the liberal assault from the Democrat Party.
Bill Clinton … John Kerry .. bla bla bla .”
Where did you take it into your head that criticism of the class warfare of the financier class against workers is actually emanating from, or has to emanate from the Democratic party?
YOUR party SUCKS! But MINE is GRRRRRREAT! (formally That Black Guy)
January 18th, 2012
3:30 pm
Adam
January 18th, 2012
1:18 pm
RB: Same to you: That’s a cop out from a coward. If YOU believe YOU should be paying LESS, do it. Apply your same idiotic stance to the government and see what happens.
______________________________________________________________________________
Is it against the law to pay LESS than you owe? YES
Is it against the law to pay MORE than you owe? NO
These 2 things are NOT the same.
Mighty Righty
January 18th, 2012
3:33 pm
What I would like to know is how Obama financed his college education? Where did he get his money? Who paid fo rit? He went to the most expensie universities in the country. Columbia, Harvard, not cheap baby. He came from a middle class family. Student loans? Somewhere I read he had applied as a foreign student. Did he? Where would he get that idea? I think Obama should release not only his transcripts, but his application for admission paper work. All the lefties think it doesn’t matter what his grades were or for that matter any paper work relating to his birth or college
so why not? Seems fair to me. Nothing to hide, release it, all of it.
Matti
January 18th, 2012
3:35 pm
Hmmm… Donovan thinks we’re stupid and don’t know that the tax code favors the rich because the rich get themselves and their friends elected and in order to enact the tax codes that favor the rich.
Donovan also thinks it IS class warfare to point out the extreme and growing discrepancies between the wealthiest Americans and everybody else, but it’s NOT class warfare to support policies that make it EASY for that to happen.
Donovan also thinks “class” distinctions have a legitimate place in the great American experiment, because he called us “low class” and decided (by virtue of his own class’s privilege to do so) that we don’t deserve air.
Donovan, MAN I WANNA PARTY WITH YOU! I bet you’re more fun than a freezing mud pit full of lice-covered starving children with machine guns pointed at their nasty little low-class heads, aren’t you? How’d we get so lucky?
md
January 18th, 2012
3:36 pm
“Great, when will you be releasing your book on the top 10 most financially secure, guaranteed never to lay anyone off or close, lifetime of job security companies to work for?”
Exactly!!!………as there is no such thing.
So folks might…..just might……want to plan accordingly.
Mighty Righty
January 18th, 2012
3:39 pm
Donovan
January 18th, 2012
3:27 pm
Well said.
Bruno
January 18th, 2012
3:40 pm
Howdy again gang–Looks like the blog crowd has thinned considerably.
I wanted to discuss a new book out that I believe directly addresses the ideological divide in our country between liberals and conservatives. The book is called “Ameritopia” by Mark Levin.
http://www.amazon.com/Ameritopia-Unmaking-Mark-R-Levin/dp/1439173249/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326918138&sr=8-1
From the amazon.com website: “…this leading conservative thinker explores the psychology, motivations, and history of the utopian movement, its architects, and its modern day disciples – and how the individual and American society are being devoured by it. In Ameritopia: The Unmaking of America Levin asks, what is this utopian force that both allures a free people and destroys them? In the end, Levin’s message is clear: The American republic is in great peril. The people must now choose between utopianism or liberty.”
I haven’t read it yet, but Levin reportedly presents an overview of Western philosophical thought in relation to Utopian thinking, from Plato to Hobbes. His conclusion is that the Utopian vision presented by these thinkers depends on a strong, centralized government with a corresponding loss of individual freedom. In contrast, he presents the ideas of Locke and de Tocqueville, which are the basis of Americanism: freedom, independence and self-reliance. Levin’s argument is that we’re slowly moving away from freedom and self-reliance toward the opposite all based on the premise that we can somehow create the Utopian Society which no one else has been successful in creating yet.
Here on the blog, that seems to be the main difference between the conservative thinkers like md, EC, Doom and myself vs. the liberal thinkers here like USinUK, Matti, et. al. In fact, USinUK told me directly yesterday that promoting self-reliance will lead directly to looting and rioting, e.g the London riots last year.
For me, freedom and self-reliance have worked well so far.
Jm
January 18th, 2012
3:40 pm
How did the idiots at beaver ridge elementary get hired in the first place?
Teacher quality is awful.
Paul
January 18th, 2012
3:42 pm
philosopher
“Bring on the tax returns and LET THE FUN BEGIN.”
What fun? In spite of Gov Perry’s and Newt’s innuendo, all we’ll likely see is that Romney, as is his opponent, Pres Obama, is really rich and obeyed the law.
Really, those are the only reasons politicians press for release of personal information:
1. Hoping for something damaging
2. Voyeurism (nosiness)
stands for decibels
January 18th, 2012
3:42 pm
Where did he get his money? Who paid fo rit?
And where the “whitey tape” at?
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
3:43 pm
Bruno – “For me, freedom and self-reliance have worked well so far.”
Me too. But unlike many on this blog, I don’t turn my back on the rest of the population and poop on them.
Paul
January 18th, 2012
3:43 pm
Mighty Righty
“What I would like to know is how Obama financed his college education? Where did he get his money? Who paid fo rit?”
That was discussed on this blog a couple years ago.
Weren’t you here then?
Jm
January 18th, 2012
3:43 pm
Butch is one of those millionaires that are in favor of raising taxes on millionaires. Assuming it is not them.
See bloomberg.
Only 25% of millionaires really support higher taxes on themselves.
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
3:45 pm
Jm – “Butch is one of those millionaires that are in favor of raising taxes on millionaires. Assuming it is not them.”
Nope. 1. I’ve never divulged my net worth, merely indicated that I’m not hurting. And 2. I have repeatedly said that I have no problem with my taxes being raised.
Tiffany's Acct Mgr
January 18th, 2012
3:46 pm
Mitt only got $374,000 for speaking engagements………WoW, I guess no body wanted to hear what he had to say.
I love the Gop debates and press releases. Especially when it’s only about 40 people in the room and they use camera angles to make to room look full.
Mitt pays 15% in taxes but we must re-do the tax codes. Why didn’t you guys re-do the tax codes with W was in office for 8 years. You call liberals dumb.
“Mission Accomplished” enough said
bman
January 18th, 2012
3:48 pm
At least I know about where Romney has been, what he has accomplished, his father etc… A successful and smart guy.
Count me in
md
January 18th, 2012
3:48 pm
Bruno……one has to admit that the thought of being “taken care of” from cradle to grave is awful alluring……..look at somebody like Adam (not picking on you Adam…but I am), he can dream up an excuse for just about every scenario imaginable……..
What we need is more folks that raise their own hands and say “yep, I screwed up”, time to make better choices and move on.
And no, I wasn’t born with a silver spoon in my mouth……never even lived in a house until my teens….and it was a rental too. I’ve had the joy of screwing up constantly….learning from it and moving on.
AmVet - “A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means." ~Barry Goldwater
January 18th, 2012
3:49 pm
That was discussed on this blog a couple years ago.
Paul, it could have been yesterday and it would still have no impact.
When it comes to knowledge of empirical data and actual penitent facts the far right wingers have permanent immunity!
The funniest part is that the quasi-fascists and birthers just got humiliated last year over their idiotic obsession with certain “papers”.
Now they want to demand even more.
Amazing…
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
3:50 pm
Butch Cassidy,
Few if any of the cons here believe in turning their backs on people and “pooping” on them. Just about all of us believe in a basic safety net. I’ve no problem with helping people with 6 months or so of unemployment benefits. But 99 weeks? You can’t find a job or start your own small business in 2 years or go back to school to learn a new vocation in 2 years? The safety net is there and I support it. But I don’t want a basic safety net to become a way of life as it has for many.
Matti
January 18th, 2012
3:52 pm
For me, freedom and self-reliance have worked well so far.
Me too! Yay! Of course, I manage to scrounge up the gratitude and humility to chalk that up to 1 – being born healthy into an American family who could provide for my needs and education, 2 – being smart enough to finish school and get a mediocre, somewhat helpful degree, 3 – being savvy enough to land a job and work my way up, 4 – remaining healthy enough to take restaurant jobs when I was laid off, 5 – THANK GOD THANK GOD THANK GOD having healthy children who did not require constant hospitalization, medication, or have other special needs, 6 – being able to find another job within six months of losing mine when I got laid off several times, 7 – being able to purchase a home whose value did not put me under totally water when it tanked, 8 – not being sucked in by EVERY psycho freak who woo’ed me.
Gratitude! Thank God! Wishes that everyone could be as LUCKY as I am, and prayers that I never become so arrogant to believe I created all that good LUCK all by myself! Thank you. Thankyousomuch!
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
3:53 pm
Thulsa Doom – “The safety net is there and I support it. But I don’t want a basic safety net to become a way of life as it has for many.”
I agree with you on that. What I don’t agree with is mds ascertation that people are poor or homeless simply becuase of “choices”.
md
January 18th, 2012
3:53 pm
“Me too. But unlike many on this blog, I don’t turn my back on the rest of the population and poop on them.”
Come on Butch….name names.
Maybe their idea of help and yours are not the same…..but help none the less. But I’m not too sure how one would make a claim such as yours on an anonymous blog…….you meet with bloggers away from the blog??
Bruno
January 18th, 2012
3:54 pm
Me too. But unlike many on this blog, I don’t turn my back on the rest of the population and poop on them.
And how is that?? By expressing cheap sympathy?? By demonizing conservatives?? By demanding that others fund giveaway programs which have not made a dent in the poverty rate in nearly 50 years??
Or, don’t tell me, you might actually give money directly to charities for the poor which you agree with ideologically–Charities which have conditions placed on them, for example. Probably not, given the low rate of charitable giving among liberals.
Bottom line, Butch, there’s nothing heroic about spending other people’s money.
(ir)Rational
January 18th, 2012
3:55 pm
Jump up peoples.
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
3:55 pm
“In fact, USinUK told me directly yesterday that promoting self-reliance will lead directly to looting and rioting, e.g the London riots last year.”
Bruno,
Are you quoting her accurately. Cause that just seems out and out crazy that self- reliance would lead to rioting and plundering like in London. And it also sounds like a straight out call for submission to being controlled by a central authority and giving up your freedom, especially economic freedom, to a monolithic govt bureaucracy that will tell you what you can do, where you can live, how much you can make, etc. Sound like a call to self slavery via govt. Its frightening to think that people think that way.
Joe Hussein Mama
January 18th, 2012
3:56 pm
AmVet — “The funniest part is that the quasi-fascists and birthers just got humiliated last year over their idiotic obsession with certain “papers”.
Wait for it. There’s going to be more hilarity next year. Hawaii Senator Daniel Akaka (D) is retiring. One of the leading candidates to succeed him is former Governor Linda Lingle (R).
Now, before our conservative friends and associates get all worked up over possibly gaining a seat in the Senate, consider this. Governor Lingle, along with the state head of the department of vital records (I don’t recall his exact title; I haven’t lived out there in 20+ years), was the one who looked at President Obama’s birth certificate and said ‘nothing wrong with this, he’s good to run for President as far as we’re concerned.’
So Republican candidate Lingle is, at least in part, the source of a great deal of the birthers’ agita. Not to mention that Hawaii Republicans tend to be the sort of Republicans that conservatives on Jay’s board would call RINOs. I can hardly wait for the shrieks and howls of outrage when they finally figure it out.
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
3:57 pm
Bruno – “Bottom line, Butch, there’s nothing heroic about spending other people’s money.”
I agreee, but I have yet to find a way around my taxes paying for the building of schools, road maintenance, lunch programs and busses for other peoples children. I chose not to have any, why should I pay for theirs?
md
January 18th, 2012
3:57 pm
“I agree with you on that. What I don’t agree with is mds ascertation that people are poor or homeless simply becuase of “choices”.”
Never made that claim, but there are “some” that fit that description. To deny that is to deny the law of averages……..
Bruno
January 18th, 2012
4:00 pm
not being sucked in by EVERY psycho freak who woo’ed me.
Sure, sure, Matti, rub it in again.
Butch Cassidy
January 18th, 2012
4:01 pm
md – “Never made that claim,”
Just as I’ve never claimed to be a liberal. As a point of fact, many times I have identified myself as a former Republican who stopped mindlessly following the pack after GW’s first term and I haven’t voted for anyone since. Yet, if I provide a counterpoint to the GOP flock, I must inherently be a “Lib”. Strange.
md
January 18th, 2012
4:04 pm
“Just as I’ve never claimed to be a liberal”
Don’t believe I ever made that claim either…….
Jm
January 18th, 2012
4:05 pm
Innovators have found a lot of cheap natural gas
Commie enviros are now sharpening their knives to try and stop gas exploration because their solar and wind is now extremely uneconomical
The commies should not be allowed to succeed
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
4:08 pm
“What I don’t agree with is mds ascertation that people are poor or homeless simply becuase of “choices”.”
Butch Cassidy,
A lot of times it is because of poor choices that begin early in life. Poor choices that lead to a criminal record and inability to hold a job much less get one, poor choices towards educational opportunities that are never taken advantage of, poor choices regarding starting families with men who have no intention of providing for their children, poor choices towards drugs, alchohol, friends and associates etc.
And then there are people who just make poor choices all their lives out of financial ignorance, living paycheck to paycheck and spending everything they make no matter how much they make.
And then there are people who think they have a seemingly secure job and career and lose everything. I knew a few of them when I was at Worldcom. I lost 30k in stock options but that was nothing. I have 4 former co-workers who collectively each lost between 1-2 million in stock options. Gone overnight. But they aren’t sitting around whining or homeless or anything like that. They got new jobs and started over and learned not to have all their eggs in 1 basket no matter how great you think your company is.
Some people but few of them do all the right things and still circumstances beyond their control hit and they lose everything and are destitute. I’m all for helping all of these people for a certain period of time. Again I’m just not for making it a lifestyle for anyone.
Jm
January 18th, 2012
4:09 pm
Butch
I don’t care if it’s a “B” or an “M”
I bet you’d be hacked if the charitable trust was ruled invalid, 39% of it was taken away and given to the government, and you got to play with the remainder.
Jm
January 18th, 2012
4:11 pm
Saw the inside of a Volt yesterday
It sucks
Go buy a Ford Fusion hybrid instead
2013 version looks awesome too
md
January 18th, 2012
4:15 pm
Good post TD……not that it will make a difference to those still looking for excuses.
And I can speak for those that lost their jobs by putting everything in one basket……also includes a certain 3rd party union that high tailed it out of town when they negotiated an all or nothing contract……we all got nothing. It was a good thing that I CHOSE to live in a very small house below my means and my survival account kept us afloat (along with selling most assets to include furniture) until I found 2 jobs to make ends meet.
So no, I’m not pooping on anyone……I just know enabling isn’t the answer.
Thulsa Doom
January 18th, 2012
4:25 pm
md,
I’ve been down and out twice in my life and started a business that went belly under and lost everything- every dime I had invested and saved. Dang near ended up homeless myself. Never did get back 30k that my biz partner owed me but that’s ok.But I didn’t get welfare, medicaid, food stamps, etc. all things that I’m sure I may have qualified for those 2 times. The thought of applying didn’t even enter my mind. It took awhile but things are great now and my future is pretty well planned out. If I got disabled temporarily I would be fine and in the next year or 2 if it happened permanently I would be fine. But after my experiences I’m a firm believer that prolonged assistance from govt only enslaves and enables people to stay on the dole. One question I would like to ask anyone who has been on public assistance or unemployment 2 years or longer. I would ask “What are you doing to improve yourself academically, vocationally, or 2 make yourself more marketable?”. You can learn a new trade in 2 years and then build from there. I’ve seen it done in much less time than that and by people barely making ends meet.
Jefferson
January 18th, 2012
4:29 pm
Md, I have to hand it to you, I think you are the smartest man you know, good choice.
md
January 18th, 2012
4:34 pm
“Md, I have to hand it to you, I think you are the smartest man you know, good choice.”
Then you think wrong, as I am just smart enough to know that I don’t know everything……life is a learning process…….but one has to be willing to learn.
And I do know that one will never help an alcoholic by giving him alcohol……..
Adam
January 18th, 2012
6:11 pm
md: Boy Adam……you might want to go visit a financial planner…….the first thing they will tell you is to have a 6 month supply of cash in an emergency fund for the “unknown”.
First of all, 6 months is not 30 years. Second of all, no one who is barely making ends meet to begin with, and trading rent for a mortgage (that likely reduced the amount he or she was paying every month), is going to be able to necessarily have 6 months worth of cash stashed away or even have the capability of getting to that point in anything less than a few years of saving. Call it an excuse if you want, the rest of us call that reality.
And I’ll leave the rest of your post alone……it’s just too baffling to comment.
I am not surprised that you find what I said baffling, considering your twisted logic on the rest of this and other things when you think you can apply “choices” to it.
Thulsa: Seriously? The wealth envy argument is only played by the cons?
Yes, seriously. You cons are the only ones who tell people the reason they want to adjust taxes on top earners is because of “wealth envy.” The Democrats and liberals do not claim that anyone is jealous of their wealth.
md
January 18th, 2012
6:17 pm
“First of all, 6 months is not 30 years. Second of all, no one who is barely making ends meet to begin with, and trading rent for a mortgage (that likely reduced the amount he or she was paying every month), is going to be able to necessarily have 6 months worth of cash stashed away or even have the capability of getting to that point in anything less than a few years of saving. Call it an excuse if you want, the rest of us call that reality.”
Which chapter of the Book of Excuses did that one come from?
Reality……saving money can be done a penny at a time Adam…..if one so chooses.
One less Beer a week……or Milky Way…..or whatever one might buy that is a want vs a need….
Can a Republican Elitist Win?
January 18th, 2012
6:48 pm
[...] Romney’s off-hand revelations about his low tax rate and high speaker fees, combined with his growing list of Clueless Things Only a One-Percenter Could Say, raise a [...]
Terrence
January 19th, 2012
7:12 am
Obama’s estimated net worth is $10.5 million. Biden’s estimated net worth is $500 thousand. Why didn’t the dems elect Joe Biden as their nominee?
Adam
January 19th, 2012
10:55 am
md: Call it an excuse if you want, the rest of us call that reality.”
Which chapter of the Book of Excuses did that one come from?
I see someone has a reading problem….
Reality……saving money can be done a penny at a time Adam…..if one so chooses.
Where reality meets math: Let’s assume you didn’t actually mean “a penny” and round up to say, $10 a week. You know, to account for the Mars bars or something…
That’s $520 a year. If someone is making $50k per year, 6 months worth of salary is about 19.5k, if we account for about 22% withholding tax in the calculation and take home pay is 39k per year. At a rate of $10/week, it would take 37 1/2 years to save up that much.
Let’s say it’s $50/week, or $2.6k/year. It would then take ONLY 7 1/2 years to save up that much!
If we are assuming, as all clearly rational and reasonable forward thinking people are, that the job might be gone in a single year, making it impossible to depend on 7 1/2 years worth of savings, let’s just see what it would take to save 6 months worth in one single year: $375/week.
So, if you’re a forward thinking and rational person, and you only have a take home pay of $750/week for your ENTIRE FAMILY to live on, you should save HALF OF IT every week for a whole year so you can have 6 months saved up.
Yep, TOTALLY reasonable to do that. That is TOTALLY something everyone SHOULD do, I mean if they were only making the “right” choices.
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11:36 am
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Newt Gingrich Takes South Carolina Lead | 2012 President
January 19th, 2012
12:11 pm
[...] attention to the terribly out of touch things Mitt Romney says (like $374,000/year being “not very much” [...]
Chuck
January 19th, 2012
11:11 pm
Bookman, as ever, remains a scoundrel. A classless class-warrior. In 25 years of private enterprise, Romney’s made a lot of money, but no one can point to any malfeasance on his part, and he’s paid his taxes at the rate required by law.
Of course, to the pathetic, envious left, that’s all the indictment you need.
tomVincent
January 20th, 2012
2:47 am
Romney said “not much.” He did not say $375K. He was talking about the effect of his 2011 speech income on his 2011 tax rate. The media applied the not much phrase to his 2010 income. There is no reason to think Romney was thinking about 2010, since he was talking about the April filing of his 2011 return. Yes, Romney is rich and so was FDR and JFK. They have servants and I dont. So what.