What Muhammad Ali can teach us about politics

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In boxing, it’s said that “styles make fights.” There was no better example of that truth than the three classic confrontations between the late Joe Frazier, who died in November, and Muhammad Ali, who today celebrates his 70th birthday.

Ali was the boxer, the stylist who could float like a butterfly and sting like a bee. Frazier was the fighter, always in your face, ready to take a few punches if it meant getting a chance to deliver a vicious, paralyzing left hook to the body. In the ring, the contrast between their two styles brought out the best in both fighters.

However, the maxim that styles make fights is also true in reverse: Styles make mismatches. Frazier, for example, is considered one of the top 10 heavyweights in boxing history, and in 1971 he defeated Ali, who had proclaimed himself The Greatest. Yet three years later, when Frazier climbed into the ring against a young George Foreman, his willingness to take punches proved his undoing. Frazier’s style played directly into the hands of the larger, more powerful Foreman, and the man who had defeated Ali lost by a brutal technical knockout in just two rounds.

As if to drive the point home, Foreman’s own style was turned against him in 1974, when he met a cagier, more wily Ali in Zaire. The better fighter, in other words, doesn’t always win, just as the better football team or the better baseball team doesn’t always win. The outcome often depends on how well a competitor’s strength matches up against an opponent’s weakness, and vice versa.

Styles also make fights, or mismatches, in politics. In the 2012 general election, Barack Obama will be forced to defend his stewardship of the American economy during one of the most challenging recessions in the nation’s history. Other issues may surface from time to time, but the economy will be the central theme of the upcoming campaign.

The apparent GOP nominee, Mitt Romney, has argued throughout the primary season that his business experience makes him the perfect candidate to take on and defeat Obama. He believes that his style will match up well against Obama, and there’s reason to believe he’s right. After all, it is the GOP’s theory that the recession and the lingering after-effects can be blamed largely on the excesses of government, rather than the excesses of private enterprise, and who better to make that argument than a highly successful businessman?

Over the past few weeks, however, I’ve come to have serious doubts about Romney’s strategy. In fact, in this environment, given his preferred message, I don’t think Obama could have asked for a better opponent than a venture capitalist raised as a child of privilege who made hundreds of millions of dollars “right-sizing” American companies, who argues that “corporations are people” and who proposes to slash taxes still further on wealthier Americans.

In many ways, I have considerable respect for Romney, and I would not lose sleep knowing that he was in the Oval Office running things in a time of crisis, which is more than I could say of any of his GOP challengers. In another time frame, facing another set of issues, he might very well make a decent president.

But in this particular time frame, facing this particular set of issues, I suspect that the Democrats aren’t going to have much trouble turning Romney into the personification of their argument that unrestrained, unregulated greed is at the heart of our nation’s economic problems. They will turn his perceived strength into a fatal weakness.

– Jay Bookman

483 comments Add your comment

MEGO

January 17th, 2012
2:58 pm

Good one Jay!!

MEGO

January 17th, 2012
2:59 pm

Fly-on-the-Wall

January 17th, 2012
2:59 pm

Let’s hope so! Let’s have that discussion on the role of government during times just like these. I think Obama is the better spokesperson to show how government is needed and is helpful to everyone.

Mick

January 17th, 2012
3:00 pm

Romaney has a more daunting task ahead then he might be bargaining for. Turnout once again, will be the key…

[...] and original article: http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/01/17/what-muhammad-ali-can-teach-us-about-politics/ This entry was posted in News. Bookmark the permalink. ← Namibian Tennis begins 2012 [...]

Mick

January 17th, 2012
3:04 pm

Jay – great moment in sports, the sight of ali getting stung and hitting the decks courtesy of smokin joe frazier…

getalife

January 17th, 2012
3:05 pm

“Corporations are people my friend”

Hit my Truth app on iphone and get:

I am the 1 % candidate.

MEGO

January 17th, 2012
3:06 pm

What’s the phrase when someone mentions the disproportionate gap in wealth and tax rates being paid by the 1%ers??? Oh I remember….wealth envy. Wow!! http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

carlosgvv

January 17th, 2012
3:11 pm

It’s true that “unrestrained, unregulated greed is at the heart of our nation’s economic problems”. It’s also true that predatory capitalism is a broken system that is beyond repair. American voters must put into office an entirely new political system. If they don’t, it will be more of the same for the foreseeable future.

Granny Godzilla

January 17th, 2012
3:11 pm

…………shhhhh…………..

we need to talk about this stuff in quiet rooms

harvey

January 17th, 2012
3:13 pm

I hope Romney belts Obama just like Frazier did Ali. There is a time for style, and then there is a time for steadiness, strength and just knowing what the heck you are doing. After the dismal performance by Obama over the last several years, and the economic pain and suffering his policies have caused millions of people, and are expected to cause (according to him “it could be worse”, but tell that to the unemployed), I think we need a financial manager like Romney who has shown he understands how things work. Also, it is unlikely a Romney would leave his office to campaign while serious legislation is being considered. He will be in there working the crowd, unlike Obama who just seems to live to talk to people young and naive enough to still applaud for him.

TaxPayer

January 17th, 2012
3:15 pm

Is Mitt’s strategy to hand out fifty dollar bills to everyone.

Paul

January 17th, 2012
3:17 pm

Nice, nice comparison and analysis.

I’ve never been sure Romney believes what he says. But really, I’m not sure it matters. I think he’s painted himself into a corner and there’s no clean way out. So taking him at his word, I blanch.

Stonethrower

January 17th, 2012
3:18 pm

@harvey You don’t know Romney from Adam’s house cat.

stands for decibels

January 17th, 2012
3:18 pm

They will turn his perceived strength into a fatal weakness.What

what?

369 more days

January 17th, 2012
3:19 pm

Jay states that Romeny “proposes to slash taxes still further on wealthier Americans”

Sure would like to proof that Romney said it.

Sorta like Obama saying he will give the rich even higher taxes.

Normal

January 17th, 2012
3:19 pm

harvey,
Elwood P. Dowd is looking for you…

Finn McCool

January 17th, 2012
3:19 pm

Finn McCool

January 17th, 2012
3:20 pm

Which Mitt Romney are we talking about again?

josef

January 17th, 2012
3:21 pm

I guess I’m the only person in America who doesn’t hold Muhammad in particularly high regard, much less idolize him. Grown men getting in a ring and beating each other to a bloody pulp for the spectator aspect reeks of the gladiators and Rome. As a wit and a wordsmith, not bad at all, Politically, yes and no, a product of his age.

What can he teach the politicians. Go for the blood to the entertainment of the crowds (bread and circuses), turn a good phrase, and seize the trend of the day.

Jerome Horwitz

January 17th, 2012
3:21 pm

Presidents get too much credit when times are good and too much blame when times are bad. In bad times about all the goernment can really do is mitigate the mess thru some stimulus, which is exactly what Obama did. He just had the misfortune to be elected in the midst of a horrible slump which was not of his making. McCain would be looking no better. I’ve read where this down cycle could last six years so whoever’s elected this time will probably look like a genius in two/three years.

Normal

January 17th, 2012
3:21 pm

TaxPayer

January 17th, 2012
3:15 pm

I bet if you asked Mitt to change a hundred for you, he would say, “Son, a hundred IS change.”

stands for decibels

January 17th, 2012
3:22 pm

Mr_B

January 17th, 2012
3:22 pm

“After the dismal performance by Obama over the last several years, and the economic pain and suffering his policies have caused millions of people”

Hiring is picking up,we’ve made the first tentative steps toward fixing our health care system, one war over and another winding down, American automaker are competivie, unemployment is declining, the stock market is around 12500, people generally feel that things are getting better despite a Congress which behaves like a spoiled two-year old.

Yeah, misery….

Peadawg

January 17th, 2012
3:23 pm

Obama’s staff is licking their chops for Romney. I can’t wait to see the ads…should be brutal.

getalife

January 17th, 2012
3:23 pm

willard will finish the job w started and not see another collapse coming.

Is that want you want cons?

Another collapse?

What is wrong with you harvey?

Obama envy?

Normal

January 17th, 2012
3:23 pm

Howdy Josef,

Hope you and yours are doing well…

Granny Godzilla

January 17th, 2012
3:23 pm

369 more days

January 17th, 2012
3:19 pm
Jay states that Romeny “proposes to slash taxes still further on wealthier Americans”

Sure would like to proof that Romney said it.

that’s easy

from last nights debate:

BAIER: I’d like to ask a question about keeping money for all of the candidates down the line. What is the highest federal income tax any American should have to pay? We are looking for a number. [...]

ROMNEY: I would like 25 percent, but right now it’s at 35, so people better pay what is legally required. But ultimately let’s get it down to as low as we possibly can, if it’s 20, if it’s 25, but paying more than 25 percent, I think, is taking too much out of our pockets.

BAIER: So the highest you had was 35?

ROMNEY: Well, that’s what the law is right now, but 25 is where I would like to see us go.

.

I think a “keep up” is in order for our own calender boy.

Jm

January 17th, 2012
3:25 pm

Meh fight hasn’t started yet

Sergey Brin is batman :) . Google it

Google may get into car manufacturing or modification

Whacky

But I love it :)

josef

January 17th, 2012
3:27 pm

NORMAL

Fine and dandy, thankee ye kindly…

josef

January 17th, 2012
3:30 pm

Mr B

Agree with much of that, but that war we’re calling over ain’t even started yet and the one winding down is gearing up…once again, we’ve declared “mission accomplished.” and left a mess behind us that G-d alone knows what it will turn into…not that I disagree mind you, but let’s call it what it is and not try to make it much more than Vietnam II and III. Just my opinion.

Jm

January 17th, 2012
3:31 pm

“what”

“what” is right. Missing a question mark at the end though jay.

But that would be an appropos ending to your post.

Romney isn’t perfect. But O is like a wart covered VD living under an outhouse while puking up garlic flavored habanero peppers. In comparison.

Kamchak

January 17th, 2012
3:33 pm

369 more days

I think Granny Godzilla’s got your number.

Just sayin’.

Granny Godzilla

January 17th, 2012
3:33 pm

” But O is like a wart covered VD living under an outhouse while puking up garlic flavored habanero peppers.”

Jm is a twin?

bill arp

January 17th, 2012
3:34 pm

Wasn’t Ali a draft dodger?

getalife

January 17th, 2012
3:35 pm

jm has Obama envy.

josef

January 17th, 2012
3:35 pm

Oh, well, Romney has made it clear he doesn’t want my vote, so, to hell with him…that is if I can say that and not get moderated.

stands for decibels

January 17th, 2012
3:35 pm

But that would be an appropos ending to your post.

I thought maybe Jay just forgot to include this youtube linkee.

JOE Cool

January 17th, 2012
3:36 pm

“I think a “keep up” is in order for our own calender boy.”

LOL..gotta luv GG

Mr_B

January 17th, 2012
3:37 pm

Shalom, josef. I agree, mostly, allthough I wouldn’t say that Afghanistan is much worse off than it was in 2001, or 1901 for that matter.I would be happier if we didn’t have Afghani blood on our hands, but it probably would be on somebody’s at any rate.

kayaker 71

January 17th, 2012
3:38 pm

Cassius Clay….. a draft dodger hero of the left who converted to Islam. What better hero could you have? Right up there with Bernadine Dorn, the Distinguished Professor of Feminine Studies at Berkley, none other than that icon of Marxism, Angela Davis…. not to forget Huey Newton and Bobby Seale…. all heroes of the leftist lovefest. The SOB should have been thrown in jail.

JOE Cool

January 17th, 2012
3:38 pm

“Calender Boy” will Shift Change to who now………

Trolling must be hard having to change your name every other post

(ir)Rational

January 17th, 2012
3:40 pm

Got to say, from the point of view of just plain good reading, that was a great post. As far as content goes, I agree it is a good analogy, and I’m not even sure I can refute it, but only partially because I know nothing about boxing. I’ll put it this way, to me, I see this election as the first LSU vs Alabama game this past season. With Mitt playing the part of LSU. It won’t be pretty, but he’ll pull it out in overtime. I do think it will go down to the wire, and I think that voter turnout will be the key. To continue with my analogy, I think Mitt will win in November, and then Obama will pull something off in January right before leaving office that will taint the win. But that is just me. Not necessarily happy about it (not really happy about the Mitt part), but I can deal with it. I may survive either way, and I may not, we’ll just have to wait and find out.

josef

January 17th, 2012
3:41 pm

Mr B

Shalom…yeah, but we won’t be gone how long before it’s right back where it was in Afghanistan. I certainly hope I’m wrong.

Peadawg

January 17th, 2012
3:41 pm

“Mitt Romney said Tuesday he pays roughly a 15% effective tax rate on his income – an acknowledgment that the multi-millionaire pays a smaller percentage of taxes on his income than many middle-income Americans.”

Jm

January 17th, 2012
3:41 pm

“Jm is a twin?”

Lame comment. Dumb comment too.

369 more days

January 17th, 2012
3:43 pm

Good come back GG, sounded like one of those questions that a MSNBC spokesperson would say, sorta like, do you still cheat on your hysband?

Jm

January 17th, 2012
3:44 pm

When will Occupy Silicon Valley commence ops to stop the job loss to computers and robots?

Luddites unite at OSV!

369 more days

January 17th, 2012
3:44 pm

Camel head, I’m not going anywhere, are you?

getalife

January 17th, 2012
3:46 pm

So willard was hiding the fact he paid less taxes than Buffett.

Raise them on the wealthy so they pay like the workers.

You lose this argument cons.

What makes you think another gop administration would not be the same as the last?

Another disaster is the last thing our country and people need.

[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]

Murph

January 17th, 2012
3:46 pm

No Jm, her comment was highly “appropos” and funny, too!

Granny Godzilla

January 17th, 2012
3:46 pm

drafy dodger heroes?

as in Limbaugh, Cheney, Hannity, AShcroft, Bloomberg, Chambliss, Jeb Bush, Frist, Gingrich, Guiliani, Hastert, Lott, McConnell, Santorum, Rove, Kyl, Graham, Gramm, Wolfowitz……

not my heroes, yours?

kayaker 71

January 17th, 2012
3:46 pm

Newt was on the money last night when he labeled Bozo as the Food Stamp President. More people on food stamps in this nation today than at any time in our history. It’s working, Bozo…. it’s working.

HDB

January 17th, 2012
3:47 pm

josef

January 17th, 2012
3:35 pm

Republicans have made it crystally clear they don’t want….nor need MY vote!! I understand your point of view, too!!

Talking Head

January 17th, 2012
3:48 pm

Jay links Ali to Obama because he’s black and muslim? What will he come up with next?!

mm

January 17th, 2012
3:49 pm

“and the economic pain and suffering his policies have caused millions of people”

Which policies would those be?

The dems know how to float like a butterfly. They need to learn how to sting like a bee.

Granny Godzilla

January 17th, 2012
3:50 pm

K71

and most of those folks on food stamps – if they managed to get one of them there job creators to give them a job…would end up paying a higher tax rate than a man worth a hundred million or so.

damn kayaker you could be Romneys economic advisor.

HDB

January 17th, 2012
3:50 pm

kayaker 71

January 17th, 2012
3:46 pm

Newt was SO WRONG last night when he labeled Obama as the Food Stamp President. More people on food stamps in this nation today than at any time in our history….but the CAUSE was the nation’s getting BUSHwhacked!!. If you want to BLAME someone…..blame the REAL person, not the one who had to pick up where he left off!!

The economy IS turning…and people are going back to work!! It IS working, Mr. President…. it’s working!!

mm

January 17th, 2012
3:50 pm

“More people on food stamps in this nation today than at any time in our history.”

GWB, the gift that keeps on giving.

Granny Godzilla

January 17th, 2012
3:50 pm

oh and that is not a compliment!

(ir)Rational

January 17th, 2012
3:52 pm

GG – Just want to ask, how exactly can Hannity be a draft dodger considering there hasn’t been a draft since before he was 18? Don’t feel like looking up the rest to verify your info, but you may want to check on that before you start making statements like that.

getalife – Exactly how is Romney paying a 15% effective tax rate wrong? Considering he has either been the governor of a state or running for political office for most of the last decade, he probably hasn’t had a high paying job in a while. Also consider the fact that he has pretty much been running for president since 2007, so he definitely hasn’t been making money, not so much from income one would think, since then. I’m guessing the 15% effective rate comes from whatever income he does bring in, plus capital gains, which I’m sure far outweigh his income. Last I checked, the highest rate on capital gains was 15%. So, you’re totally right, he is a disaster and shouldn’t be president simply because he pays the amount of taxes he owes.

They BOTH suck

January 17th, 2012
3:52 pm

kayaker

“a draft dodger”

Guess there are many Repubs, in this state for sure, that you do not vote for based on that comment……… correct?

tell me you do not buy the BS of any one in any Party who says things like……..

“I had more important things to do” Cheney

“I’ve been to war [sic]. I’ve raised twins. If I had a choice, I’d rather go to war.” Bush (which war, when)

Did Chambliss or Isakson make it to Vietnam or any other war?

I could go on an on………….

You seem to be selective on who you call out for not going to war……….

,mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Paul

January 17th, 2012
3:53 pm

Peadawg

““Mitt Romney said Tuesday he pays roughly a 15% effective tax rate on his income – an acknowledgment that the multi-millionaire pays a smaller percentage of taxes on his income than many middle-income Americans.”

This is going to get interesting, attacking a candidate for obeying the law.

Attacking a law as unfair is one thing. Attacking a person for obeying it is quite another..

kayaker 71

January 17th, 2012
3:53 pm

If you liberals don’t like the Mittster paying only 15% on his capital gains, change the tax code and make him pay more. This incessant bitching about the wealthy not paying their “fair share” is just that…. a whining bunch of people who can’t seem to realize that all of this moaning about capital gains could have been changed by that Democratically controlled Senate, House and Presidency with just the stroke of a pen. Don’t bitch about Romney paying what the law says he must pay….. if you don’t like what he is paying, bitch at that bunch of Democrats that did nothing about it.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 17th, 2012
3:55 pm

Newt Gingrich — punching WAY BELOW his weight class.

Granny Godzilla

January 17th, 2012
3:55 pm

IR

You are correct…I should have said NEVER SERVED their country….

Kamchak

January 17th, 2012
3:56 pm

So, you’re totally right, he is a disaster and shouldn’t be president simply because he pays the amount of taxes he owes.

Why don’t you ask getalife if there IS only reason Romney shouldn’t be president rather than making him defend a position he didn’t take?

They BOTH suck

January 17th, 2012
3:56 pm

kayaker

How about conservative Jack Kemp

He had “knee problems” so he couldn’t go to Vietnam, however he was able to play in the NFL for 8 yrs………

Let’s be ‘fair and balanced’ and call them all out

You in?

Joe The Plumber too.

January 17th, 2012
3:56 pm

AJC is reporting that the POS that raped and murdered the little 7 year old in Canton has accepted a plea bargain for life in prison…..Why in hell was this monster not tried and given the Death Penalty? I can’t imagine a better punishment and the bedwetters couldn’t have even tried the crap they did with the cop killer troy davis, this pervert admitted it. Now the tax payers get to pay for this POS to eat and sleep free of charge for the next 50-60-70 years, hopefully, someone will mess up and let him in with general population once he gets to prison….by accident of course. Cherokee County Courts should be ashamed of themselves.

Paul

January 17th, 2012
3:57 pm

“all of this moaning about capital gains could have been changed by that Democratically controlled Senate, House and Presidency with just the stroke of a pen”

And the response is….?

369 more days

January 17th, 2012
3:57 pm

Regarding Ali’s draft status. He did go CO, and if I am not mistaken he did do some time.

Care to guess who and he fought and where he had his first fight after the draft dodging fight?
Jerry Quarry @ the old audittoruim on Memiorial Drive in Atlanta

godless heathen

January 17th, 2012
3:58 pm

Pretty sad to see Ali today, the result of all those blows to the noggin.

Always seemed odd to me that someone that made a living in violence became a non-violent CO when his time came to serve his country.

And if boxing wasn’t bad enough, now we also have this extreme fighting to satisfy the blood lust of the paying public.

JohnnyReb

January 17th, 2012
3:58 pm

I am beginning to think Conservatives are a bunch of dumb a$$es. How else would one explain how they let a group of Moonbats get control over most of the media and learning institutions? I read the Leftie posts here, watch MSNBC, and the Sunday legacy talk shows like Meet the Depressed. I get motion sickness from shaking my head. If Repubs don’t take back the Senate and White House in November, we may all have to learn to barter.

They BOTH suck

January 17th, 2012
3:59 pm

Kayaker

Unless you vote 3rd Party this November, you will probably be voting for Romney……

Which branch did he serve in? He would have been of age to go…………………..

I digress

(ir)Rational

January 17th, 2012
4:00 pm

GG – I would say still a VERY bad argument, because with the exception to Hannity, Graham and Limbaugh, all have served (from what I could find) in public office in some capacity or another. Graham is a bad example simply because he is a preacher. They’re pretty much exempt no matter who they vote for.

Kamchak

January 17th, 2012
4:00 pm

How else would one explain how they let a group of Moonbats get control over most of the media and learning institutions?

Aaaannnnnnnnnnnnndddd I quit reading.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 17th, 2012
4:00 pm

TBS — “How about conservative Jack Kemp He had “knee problems” so he couldn’t go to Vietnam, however he was able to play in the NFL for 8 yrs………”

I sat next to Jack Kemp on a flight from ATL to Washington Dulles some years ago. He took off his shoes, stuck his stinky feet out in the aisle and managed to suck down five glasses of red wine during a flight that was just a bit over an hour long. I was still voting GOP at the time, but I *almost* said that I was sorry I voted for him and Bob Dole, just based on his behavior.

Paul

January 17th, 2012
4:00 pm

Joe the Plumber

“Now the tax payers get to pay for this POS to eat and sleep free of charge for the next 50-60-70 years, ”

Trust me on this….. you do NOT want to use the cost of lifetime incarceration vs cost of death penalty with appeals as the basis for support of the death penalty.

md

January 17th, 2012
4:00 pm

Funny……one takes their after tax money and puts in in Treasuries paying a 1% return = Good.

One takes their after tax dollars and puts them into the economy = Bad.

Any wonder we are so screwed up when folks are so clueless………..

And just for the record, the rules are the same for EVERYBODY. Go ahead, cash out your 401k and put it into a company such as Bain Capital…….then you too can have the exact same tax rate on the exact same investment……but somehow, I think folks would still find something to bitch about.

josef

January 17th, 2012
4:00 pm

JOE

At the strictly emotional level, I’m in your camp. I’m not the biggest proponent of the death penalty, but there are some cases that, if any merit it, do and this one is in that category. As far as I’m concerned, there’s a place for Sharia here…turn him over to the victim’s family…

Paul

January 17th, 2012
4:02 pm

awww, c’mon…. isn’t anyone going to address kayaker 71’s “all of this moaning about capital gains could have been changed by that Democratically controlled Senate, House and Presidency with just the stroke of a pen”

No? Well, that ought to tell us just how well attacking Romney for obeying the tax code is going to play.

Mighty Righty

January 17th, 2012
4:02 pm

Unfortunately for Jay and the rest of you dims, Obama will have to run on his record. Jay and the looney left will make excuses from now until November. We have been hearing it for the last three years. Blame anyone or anything but Obama. Blame, Bush, blame the banks, blame wall street, blame the tea party, blame congress, blame europe, blame the greeks, blame the italians, israel, and arab spring, blame oil companies, blame business, blame tsunamis, blame weather, even blame our economic system the most financially successful system in history, blame our medical system and even blame our workers and tax payers for being selfish and greedy to want to keep their own money. The trajedy is not that our president wants to escape responsibility for his own actions, but that there in this country stupid enough to believe the out right lies, distortions, obfuscations put out by this completely brainless administration. Expect class warfare, expect anything but the truth which is Obama doesn’t have a clue how to fix our problems.

They BOTH suck

January 17th, 2012
4:05 pm

JHM

That is too funny… Of course I do not know Kemp or any of the others I mentioned, however I wanted to give Kayaker a small dose of the medicine he was handing out…….

he is seems upset about Ali not going to war, yet unless he doesn’t vote much, votes for people who were of age to serve during Vietnam……. yet had a zillion reasons not too

Paul

January 17th, 2012
4:05 pm

josef

“turn him over to the victim’s family…”

There are some startling possibilities.

“Amish Forgive School Shooter, Struggle with Grief”

Donald Kraybill, is a sociologist at nearby Elizabethtown College and co-author of Amish Grace: How Forgiveness Transcended Tragedy.

“I think the most powerful demonstration of the depth of Amish forgiveness was when members of the Amish community went to the killer’s burial service at the cemetery,” Kraybill says. “Several families, Amish families who had buried their own daughters just the day before.”

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14900930

(ir)Rational

January 17th, 2012
4:06 pm

josef – I’m a forgiving person. I’ve got friends who would advocate tying him up in a field surrounded by trees and letting a sniper school use him for target practice over a few days. The “forgiving” side of me says I would want to stop this, the rest of me says it would probably take me a week or two just to find this field. Moral of the story, somebody needs to end him. There are things that you deserve to go to prison for and things you deserve to be executed for. Messing with kids falls into the second category. Sharia isn’t a bad idea in this case though. I would be satisfied with that.

md

January 17th, 2012
4:06 pm

“Trust me on this….. you do NOT want to use the cost of lifetime incarceration vs cost of death penalty with appeals as the basis for support of the death penalty.”

And there in lies part of the problem……especially for those that plead guilty or are caught in the act….go to the chair, go directly to the chair, do not pass go and collect your never ending appeals….

Joe Hussein Mama

January 17th, 2012
4:06 pm

Forgot to say about Jack Kemp — he was actually found unfit for active dury. He enlisted in the Army Reserve and his unit did get activated for duty in Berlin when the wall went up, but Army doctors gave him a thumbs-down.

I’m as harsh as anyone when it comes to draft-dodging, but IMO Kemp doesn’t belong in that category. He voluntarily enlisted and he showed up when his unit got activated. The fact that Army doctors (who aren’t easy to fool) said no gives him a pass IMO.

Butch Cassidy

January 17th, 2012
4:07 pm

MIghty Righty – “Obama doesn’t have a clue how to fix our problems.”

If by fix you mean my investments earning more for me than when he started, then please leave the man alone!

HDB

January 17th, 2012
4:07 pm

Mighty Righty

January 17th, 2012
4:02 pm

Can I fix a statement you made: The trajedy is not that our president wants to take responsibility for his own actions and FIX the nation’s problems, but that there are those in this country stupid enough to believe the out right lies, distortions, obfuscations put out by the completely brainless conservative media with their non-descript talking points, polarizing messages, and kowtowing to the few of means and control.

THAT’S a more accurate accounting……………….

Granny Godzilla

January 17th, 2012
4:07 pm

ir

nifty,

but the discussion with what’s his name that you are of course welcome to jump into was about military service.

heard alot of that kinda’ stuff in the last Presidential campaign….

Joe The Plumber too.

January 17th, 2012
4:09 pm

josef, that is Sharia I could agree with wholeheartedly. Paul, don’t think that I use the cost (one vs. the other) as a reason for my support of the death penalty at all. The point is, if anyone deserves it, that worthless waste of human flesh did. Again, Cherokee County Courts should be ashamed, the DA should never get another term anywhere in this state.

josef

January 17th, 2012
4:10 pm

PAUL

Sharia permits the family to forgive, to accept a monetary settlement, or to go for death. If they chose the latter, then the oldest male relative is responsible for carrying out the act.

IrRational…
My distanced and intellectual side is opposed to the death penalty, but if that were my child, I could pull the trigger and not think twice…

md

January 17th, 2012
4:10 pm

“No? Well, that ought to tell us just how well attacking Romney for obeying the tax code is going to play.”

Sorry Paul, but wrong……it will still play well to the masses…..perception will be (is) the reality.

JOE Cool

January 17th, 2012
4:11 pm

“Obama will have to run on his record”

In 2011 alone, 1.9 million private-sector jobs were created, while a net 280,000 government jobs were lost. Overall government employment has declined 2.6 percent over the past 3 years. (That compares with a drop of 2.2 percent during the early years of the Reagan administration.)

(ir)Rational

January 17th, 2012
4:11 pm

GG – I’m not arguing that they didn’t serve in the military. But you said didn’t serve their country. Last I checked, being a member of Congress or an Ambassador or a Governor or Mayor or something of that nature was considered serving your country. If you had of said “none of them served in the military” then I would have accepted it and moved on. I’m just being picky with words this afternoon cause I have nothing more relevant to add to the conversation.

Matti

January 17th, 2012
4:14 pm

I love a good prize fight! Elections, not so much.

(ir)Rational

January 17th, 2012
4:14 pm

josef – The side of me that recognizes that the group of people deciding whether the accused should live or die are the ones that WEREN’T smart enough to get out of jury duty thinks the death penalty should be done away with. If that were my family member, I’m not sure pulling the trigger would be good enough for me. I wouldn’t hesitate to do it, but I’m not sure I would be satisfied. You mess with my family, and I go all medieval on you. It is probably best that we have courts and laws, otherwise you would have people being flayed to death and stoned to death and stuff like that for their crimes in this country.

Kamchak

January 17th, 2012
4:16 pm

And just for the record, the rules are the same for EVERYBODY. Go ahead, cash out your 401k and put it into a company such as Bain Capital…

The L.A. Times reported that investment in Bain Capital funds has a minimum requirement of $1 million dollars.

Is it your contention that EVERYBODY has a million dollars?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

January 17th, 2012
4:16 pm

there in lies part of the problem……especially for those that plead guilty or are caught in the act….go to the chair, go directly to the chair, do not pass go and collect your never ending appeals….

Yeah, just fry em, even if they were wrongly convicted for any number of reasons…why if there weren’t guilt of the crime they were convicted of, they probably did something anyway…. :roll:

Oh but also remember, don’t kill the fetuses. :roll: