When high-speed chases end tragically

I’ve held off on posting about this until we knew more about what happened, but this news helps to clarify a tragic situation:

From the AJC:

The Georgia State Patrol trooper involved in the New Year’s Eve crash that killed the wife of Braves trainer Jeff Porter has been fired.

In a statement released Friday, Col. Mark W. McDonough, commissioner of the state Department of Public Safety, said that while the investigation into Saturday’s wreck in downtown Atlanta is continuing, Trooper 1st Class Donald Crozier was terminated on Thursday….

Kathy Porter was a passenger in the Ford Expedition being driven by her husband, Jeff. The Ford was struck by Crozier’s Dodge Charger patrol car at the intersection of Capitol Avenue and Memorial Drive. Kathy Porter died; her husband, as well as the couple’s son, David, and a third passenger were injured.

By now, most if not all law-enforcement agencies have clear policies regarding hot pursuit. The State Patrol’s actions in terminating this officer suggest that he acted in violation of those policies when he hit the Porter vehicle. (Crozier was reportedly en route to joining a high-speed chase on nearby I-20 when the accident occurred.)

The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration estimates that some 360 people are killed each year in high-speed pursuits, although the actual number may be higher because no mechanism exists to collect that data nationally. Kathy Porter has now joined that number.

Like Porter, roughly a third of those killed are innocent victims. You don’t fire a gun at a suspect in a room of crowded people, even if it means that he might escape, and chasing a suspect at high speed on crowded streets raises similar questions of risk vs. benefit. You put innocent lives at risk.

In 2005, a survey of 15 Georgia law-enforcement agencies reported that they had engaged in more than 400 pursuits in the previous year. More than a quarter of those pursuits resulted in an accident, and more than half were initiated as result of a traffic offense. Only one chase in eight was related to a suspected felony.

Georgia courts give law enforcement considerable leeway as long as officers do not act in reckless disregard for public safety, meaning that they observe department policy. However, as the state Supreme Court has noted, while it’s desirable that suspects be apprehended, “it is equally as important that innocent persons, whether or not connected with the emergency to be met, not be maimed or killed in the operation.”

– Jay Bookman

245 comments Add your comment

Kamchak

January 6th, 2012
1:43 pm

(Crozier was reportedly en route to joining a high-speed chase on nearby I-20 when the accident occurred.)

Was the guy being chased that much of a threat they had to use extreme measures like a high speed chase?

Did they catch the guy who was being chased?

Jay

January 6th, 2012
1:47 pm

I’d like to know the answer to those questions as well, but such details aren’t being released.

kitty

January 6th, 2012
1:47 pm

doesn’t matter if they caught the guy IMO. These sort of chases should only be used when someone dangerous is fleeing from the police, not when someone drives off from a traffic ticket unless they have reason to believe that person is a serious danger. People die for no reason…innocent people. IF they guy violated policy he should also be prosecuted for manslaughter or something like that for killing Kathy Porter. My sympathies to her family for their loss.

Cutty

January 6th, 2012
1:51 pm

Would the firing had been different had the victim not been the wife of the Braves trainer, but rather someone from the Capital View neighborhood?

Jay

January 6th, 2012
1:51 pm

That too is a fine question, Cutty.

Jimmy62

January 6th, 2012
1:52 pm

Let’s get rid of no-knock raids, too. A lot of innocent people get hurt by over-testosteroned SWAT teams looking to justify their jobs by performing military operations on private citizens on American soil,

Steve - USA

January 6th, 2012
1:53 pm

Cutty,

I would think it’s safe to say high profile situations are always handled differently and no that’s not a good thing.

JMHO

Sarah

January 6th, 2012
1:53 pm

I agree Kitty. This officer showed total disregard for human life when he blew through that intersection and did not stop. I hope he gets the punishment he deserves. My sympathies to her family.

Granny Godzilla

January 6th, 2012
1:55 pm

My sympathies to the family.

Normal

January 6th, 2012
1:57 pm

Capital Avenue and Memorial…how far is that intersection from I-20?

Paul

January 6th, 2012
1:57 pm

“a survey of 15 Georgia law-enforcement agencies reported that they had engaged in more than 400 pursuits in the previous year.”

And I wonder what prompted the pursuit (other than the driver fled). Running a stop sign? Going 8 mph over the limit? Right tire skimming the white line? As opposed to ‘murder suspect fleeing’ or ‘armed robbery suspect fleeing.’

“(Crozier was reportedly en route to joining a high-speed chase on nearby I-20 when the accident occurred.)”

Every time I pass by a pulled-over care with three or four law-enforcement cars behind it, Ihave to wonder, does the number of stops an officer participates in affect awards, promotion and pay? “Officer Speedo participated in 18 pursuits that led to the apprehension of 1 murder suspect, 3 armed robbery suspects and 14 teenagers out after curfew.”

stands for decibels

January 6th, 2012
1:59 pm

That too is a fine question, Cutty.

I’ll admit it was the first question that popped into my head, but was fearful it would seem petty or exploitative to ask…

Mostly I just can’t fathom how horrible it must be to be in Jeff Porter’s shoes. Perhaps his loss will lead to a rational overhaul of policy on this matter.

Normal

January 6th, 2012
1:59 pm

…as far as the “No Knock Policy goes…I hate it because you can’t yell, “Dave’s not here” anymore.

(I wonder how many will get that?) :)

AngryRedMarsWoman

January 6th, 2012
2:01 pm

I grew up around the police (my daddy being the local fire chief) and am married to a cop, so I speak from – well, simply from where I sit and thus what I have to say is anecdotal and probably meaningless. There are a lot of good cops out there. There are also too many individuals wearing the uniform who do so not necessarily to help the public, but rather because they love the thrill of the chase and the grit of the bust…and the feeling of being “above”. The call comes out….lights and sirens and the blinders go up and the adrenaline is flowing. There is a fine line that we ask our “heroes” (police, fire, military) to walk and sometimes even the good ones will cross it….and there are some who spend their entire career on the wrong side of it. Like the rest of you, I am ignorant of the specifics in this case, but I am fairly certain that the officer wasn’t out there with the intention of hurting an innocent person – violation of policy, bad judgment….sad for all.

My deepest sympathies to the Porter family…..

Kamchak

January 6th, 2012
2:01 pm

I hope he gets the punishment he deserves.

This was clearly a tragic accident. I think the citizens of Georgia deserve a better high-speed chase policy. Let’s start holding policy deciders responsible.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 6th, 2012
2:02 pm

Normal — “Capital Avenue and Memorial…how far is that intersection from I-20?”

Not far at all. IIRC, Capital and Memorial meet underneath the Connector, just about one exit north of I-20. It’s in that rabbit warren down where 75, 85 and 20 all intersect.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 6th, 2012
2:03 pm

Let’s see if this linkee works.

http://mapq.st/zKY7CP

Old Timer

January 6th, 2012
2:04 pm

And I wonder what prompted the pursuit (other than the driver fled). Running a stop sign? Going 8 mph over the limit? Right tire skimming the white line? As opposed to ‘murder suspect fleeing’ or ‘armed robbery suspect fleeing.’

From what I’ve read, I gather that the fleeing suspect was on a motorcycle—not exactly a weapon of mass destruction. I think the truth is that too many people who should never be allowed near a badge other than from behind bars get all testosteroned up when chasing a fleeing vehicle—for instance, we read numerous accounts of beatings occurring after a chase has ended. Let’s pity the devastated family and then be grateful that a misfit has been removed from the force that’s supposed to protect us.

JohnnyReb

January 6th, 2012
2:05 pm

Lights and sirens on offical cars are for separating traffic so the vehicle can get through, not for speeding in hopes innocent people get out of the way.

On a skeptical note however, the troopers firing is suspect, especially this soon with no mention of past violations. Manslaugher is serious, don’t misunderstand me, but this one smacks of politics. It won’t be a surprise if dismissal is overturned should the trooper pursue an appeal.

Peadawg

January 6th, 2012
2:05 pm

“The Georgia State Patrol trooper involved in the New Year’s Eve crash that killed the wife of Braves trainer Jeff Porter has been fired.”

GOOD. Now lets prosecute him for vehicular homicide, murder, SOMETHING. Just b/c he was a cop doesn’t excuse him for his actions.

Off topic a little bit but when it comes it comes to police officers breaking laws (especially speeding) that regular citizens get tickets for, it’s absolutely ridiculous.

Dave

January 6th, 2012
2:06 pm

@Normal…….. “No, no, I’m Dave. Let me in man. I’ve got the stuff.” Yep, got it.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 6th, 2012
2:06 pm

Old Timer — “Let’s pity the devastated family and then be grateful that a misfit has been removed from the force that’s supposed to protect us.”

Hell of a price to pay to get one bad apple out of the barrel. :(

Misty Fyed

January 6th, 2012
2:09 pm

The problem is the cops usually don’t know why the person is running. They could be drunk. They could be stupid kids. They could be a wanted serial killer with a victim in the back seat. Everyone hates when an innocent victim is injured, but could you imagine the response if a victim is found dead and the police had the suspect pulled over but before they found the victim, the suspect fled at a high speed. Fearful of high speed chases, the police failed to give chase.

Also imagine the response if the police banned all high speed chases. Why would anyone ever pull over or even slow down? Just cover your tag and take off.

Butch Cassidy

January 6th, 2012
2:10 pm

Just a question. Has anyone ever done a study as to whether speeding fatalities decrease when a police officer is parked on the side of the road running radar? My point being that rather than waiting for the errant driver to come into target range, couldn’t the police prescence be better served elserwhere?

jewcowboy

January 6th, 2012
2:11 pm

“You don’t fire a gun at a suspect in a room of crowded people, even if it means that he might escape”

Wait a second. I grew up watching 70’s police shows. You mean a police officer is not supposed to shoot at a suspect on a crowded street or out the window of a speeding car with one hand while steering with another?

Butch Cassidy

January 6th, 2012
2:12 pm

jewcowboy – “You mean a police officer is not supposed to shoot at a suspect on a crowded street or out the window of a speeding car with one hand while steering with another?”

Only if said officer is driving a red Ford Grand Torino. :)

stands for decibels

January 6th, 2012
2:14 pm

On a skeptical note however, the troopers firing is suspect, especially this soon with no mention of past violations. Manslaugher is serious, don’t misunderstand me, but this one smacks of politics. It won’t be a surprise if dismissal is overturned should the trooper pursue an appeal.

Such thoughts have crossed my mind as well, and it dovetails with my (and Cutty’s) earlier thoughts of what sort of fate would befall a more ordinary Joe, or an ordinary Joe’s wife, dying under similar circumstances.

Of course (as you’d indicated) they’re just suspicions at this point, I don’t really know much about the likelihood of such drastic disciplinary actions taking place, or how quickly… perhaps someone who does know, will pipe in with some stats for us.

jewcowboy

January 6th, 2012
2:15 pm

Butch Cassidy,

“Only if said officer is driving a red Ford Grand Torino.”

:lol:

5-0

January 6th, 2012
2:16 pm

This event was tragic, but to hear you libs talk about bad apples, complaining about speeding cops, and the imfamous “I know a cop so I know what I’m talking about” attitude sickens me. You guys are sheep.

5-0

January 6th, 2012
2:18 pm

Butch Cassidy….
That is a great idea right up until the point some speeding kid runs your mom into a ditch. Then you’ll complain about why the cops weren’t using radar controlling the speeders.

jewcowboy

January 6th, 2012
2:18 pm

5-0

“but to hear you libs talk about”

Looking at the comments and who has said what on here, you might want to check who you are calling libs…

Jm

January 6th, 2012
2:19 pm

Cutty 1:51

Speculative but probably accurate answer: no

Jm

January 6th, 2012
2:20 pm

Whoops. “yes”, not “no”

Kamchak

January 6th, 2012
2:21 pm

Also imagine the response if the police banned all high speed chases. Why would anyone ever pull over or even slow down?

They don’t seem to be pulling over or slowing down when they are being chased.

Why don’t we try something different?

jewcowboy

January 6th, 2012
2:24 pm

Kamchak,

“Why don’t we try something different?”

we could.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/dec/21/transport.ukcrime

Normal

January 6th, 2012
2:24 pm

Dave,
Figures you’d get it… :D

ty webb

January 6th, 2012
2:25 pm

it seems that with all the cameras now on interstates, highway, and streets, it should be easier to track those running from police, so that we could somewhat “head them off at the pass”, eliminating chases.

stands for decibels

January 6th, 2012
2:25 pm

you might want to check who you are calling libs…

remember, JCB–to vast swaths of America, it’s

“Liberal” = stuff/people I don’t happen to like

(thirty, forty years of what amount to empty-net shots on that term will do that.)

Finn McCool

January 6th, 2012
2:26 pm

Also imagine the response if the police banned all high speed chases. Why would anyone ever pull over or even slow down?

Reminded me of the section in the Hunter Thompson book Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas – just slow down and put your turn signal on but don’t ever pull over.

jewcowboy

January 6th, 2012
2:27 pm

ty webb,

Or remotely stop them. See the link at 2.24.

jewcowboy

January 6th, 2012
2:28 pm

stands for decibels,

“Liberal” = stuff/people I don’t happen to like”

Too true.

ty webb

January 6th, 2012
2:28 pm

I blame those Duke boys.

Matti's resolve

January 6th, 2012
2:28 pm

What a senseless tragedy. Automobiles ARE dangerous weapons, and caution should be exercised at all times. We teach this to our children. (I do; you’d better!) There’s no reason to exempt law enforcement officers from this basic tenet.

God bless that poor woman’s family!

Get Real

January 6th, 2012
2:30 pm

My understanding is he was not even chasing anyone, he got called to the scene of a wreck…..which makes it much worse

getalife

January 6th, 2012
2:32 pm

Mr_B

January 6th, 2012
2:32 pm

I’ll be happy to accept the “lib” label, but I’d be a little more comfortable with the whole situation if the trooper in question weren’t being tried and fried in the court of public opinion. Was he acting under orders to pursue? Had he acted in a manner inconsistant with his traing? We don’t know, and the rush to terminate the cop doesn’t make it any clearer.

This guy may be a cowboy with no regard for the safety of the community that he’s supposed to be protecting or he may be a decent guy trying to do what he tought was the right thing with tragic consequences. I’d like to find out which before I condemn him.

ty webb

January 6th, 2012
2:33 pm

jewcowboy,
interesting story…it should definitely make anyone with “OnStar”(or any comparable service) think real hard.

AngryRedMarsWoman

January 6th, 2012
2:34 pm

Sorry, 5-0, but in my lifetime I have known a few cops who IMHO should not have been wearing a badge. I am a lawyer…and I know some bad lawyers. I work in the healthcare industry…and I know of bad doctors. I am a mom…and I have seen some parents who should not be entrusted with the care of children. But you don’t have to be a “whatever” to know a bad “whatever”. When this story broke it was my husband – 15 years active duty military, 10+ years wearing a badge – who turned to me and said “there are way too many guys out there who just can’t wait to get in a chase or pull someone over…and I work with quite a few of those dangerous a-holes.” So, you know, your blind defense of your breatheren (assuming you are in fact LE) is not as honorable as you think it is. Bad lawyers make me sick and I want them drummed out of the profession…the “good” cops I know feel the same about their “bad apples” as well. bahhhhhh bahhhhh

Matti's resolve

January 6th, 2012
2:38 pm

AngryRedMarsWoman,

Nicely put.

jewcowboy

January 6th, 2012
2:43 pm

ty webb,

“it should definitely make anyone with “OnStar”(or any comparable service) think real hard.”

That made me think of a video I saw a while back. ;)

“700+ HP Hennessey Cadillac CTS-V: 11.07 @ 128 MPH – OnStar Emergency?”

http://youtu.be/8As1zshWxn0

Old Timer

January 6th, 2012
2:45 pm

Sorry, 5-0, but in my lifetime I have known a few cops who IMHO should not have been wearing a badge.

I’m just astonished there aren’t more of them, given the pay. In all too many cases, a person with little more than a high school education and a prospective career of manual labor is handed a badge, a gun, and the power of life and death over the citizenry. A person who has never had a responsible position suddenly has it in spades. Is it any wonder that some of these people can’t handle it? And do we really think that we can correct character and judgment flaws with a job offer contingent upon a little training?

AngryRedMarsWoman

January 6th, 2012
2:45 pm

Just to be clear – as I initially stated, I am ignorant of the specifics of this matter although I feel quite certain that the officer in question did not go out that day with the intention of hurting someone. My comments about “good” and “bad” whatevers were meant as a general commentary and not directed against this officer….he is as entitled to “innocent until proven guilty” as everyone else.

Finn McCool

January 6th, 2012
2:46 pm

It’s his connections to the epicenters of big money in America — especially to top executives and financiers in the habit of investing for handsome returns. And there are almost no better returns than those found in tax benefits, government subsidies, loan guarantees, bailouts, regulatory exemptions, federal contracts and trade deals generating hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars a year.

Romney, in other words, is the candidate Citizens United created, the creature given life by the Supreme Court playing Dr. Frankenstein. Romney is the true son of Scalia, Roberts, Kennedy, Thomas and Alito.

Robert Reich
http://www.salon.com/2012/01/05/the_supreme_court_created_a_monster/

Doggone/GA

January 6th, 2012
2:46 pm

” We don’t know, and the rush to terminate the cop doesn’t make it any clearer”

On the other hand, *I* would say the firing makes it CRYSTAL clear. Given how many officers and detectives are put on desk duty or administrative leave while any possible misdeeds by them are being investigated…I’d say that such a rapid firing is pretty strong indication he REALLY did something wrong.

Jm

January 6th, 2012
2:48 pm

Doggone 2:46
But let’s be clear

He did something very wrong to someone important

This probably would not have played out the same way if it had been a regular Joe

Although hard to know for certain

ty webb

January 6th, 2012
2:49 pm

jewcowboy,
That was pretty funny. It be a good idea for Onstar to employ hostage negotiators…would come in handy during Car Jackings.

Mr_B

January 6th, 2012
2:51 pm

Jm: I’m thinking the same thing myself.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 6th, 2012
2:53 pm

Doggone — “*I* would say the firing makes it CRYSTAL clear. Given how many officers and detectives are put on desk duty or administrative leave while any possible misdeeds by them are being investigated…I’d say that such a rapid firing is pretty strong indication he REALLY did something wrong.”

This.

My wife is an HR professional, and she’ll tell you that only the most egregious and blatant cases of employee misbehavior get shown the door then and there. Questionable ones, or cases where the misdeeds are less clear, take longer.

That being said, she did tell me about a feller in her company who got himself unemployed this week. Seems he decided to send photos of his junk to the pretty new girl in his store (no idea how he got her phone number), and I’m not talking about refuse, if you know what I mean.

When a woman’s complaining about you sending dirty pictures to her phone and YOUR phone number is attached to the pix in question, you can pretty much expect to be fired for cause. Don’t bother visiting the unemployment office, lamebrain. :D

Doggone/GA

January 6th, 2012
2:53 pm

“This probably would not have played out the same way if it had been a regular Joe”

You have no way of knowing how probable that would be, unless your crystal ball works better than mine. He was fired, and fired quite quickly. That points to a serious issue with how he handled the situation. That’s all *I* need to know. I’m not interested in speculation about what might have happened, I’m only interested in what DID happen.

Jm

January 6th, 2012
2:53 pm

CA just passed a law saying you don’t need a drivers license to drive

In order to help out illegal immigrants who were getting their cars confiscated whenever didn’t have a license

So no one now needs a license in CA

The CA insanity continues

Source: AP

Butch Cassidy

January 6th, 2012
2:53 pm

5-0 – “That is a great idea right up until the point some speeding kid runs your mom into a ditch. Then you’ll complain about why the cops weren’t using radar controlling the speeders.”

I was referring more to the interstate system. Since our highways were based on the Autobahn, and the Autobahn doesn’t station police officers with radar guns on the side of the road, I was wondering if there really is a difference between speeding fatalities with the radar or without it. Just curious.

Mr_B

January 6th, 2012
2:54 pm

“Is it any wonder that some of these people can’t handle it? And do we really think that we can correct character and judgment flaws with a job offer contingent upon a little training?”

But..but.. we would have to PAY to train cops better; more bloated guv’mint donchaknow….

carlosgvv

January 6th, 2012
2:54 pm

This is The State of Georgia. Corruption is everywhere. Therefore, we may never know if this fired officer is really guilty or just the victim of “good ole boy” politics. I will add it’s going to be interesting if the officer sues to get his job back. Then, finger-pointing will abound and each side will blame the other. Only in America.

Doggone/GA

January 6th, 2012
2:55 pm

JHM – just like a story I told around here not too long ago. An employee with 15 years service got fired. Here one day, gone the next. We never did hear what he did to deserve that, but it had to be pretty damn serious for them to show him the door that quickly.

Doggone/GA

January 6th, 2012
2:57 pm

“Therefore, we may never know if this fired officer is really guilty or just the victim of “good ole boy” politics”

Trust me on this: if HE thinks he can make a case that his firing was unjustified it’ll be all over the news. He won’t keep his mouth shut.

jewcowboy

January 6th, 2012
2:57 pm

ty webb,

“It be a good idea for Onstar to employ hostage negotiators…would come in handy during Car Jackings.”

A whole new profession opening up ;)

Curious Observer

January 6th, 2012
2:57 pm

He did something very wrong to someone important

I doubt that the trainer of the Atlanta Falcons and his wife are that important or that the administration would have taken a different action with the officer if the victim had been someone else. When I’m able to read the statements of eye-witnesses to the effect that the officer was traveling at a high rate of speed in heavy traffic and that he did not even slow down at a red light before proceeding through the intersection, I have no reason to believe that the witnesses all have some kind of vengeful motive toward the officer. This “important victim” stuff won’t wash.

Joe Hussein Mama

January 6th, 2012
2:58 pm

Doggone — “An employee with 15 years service got fired. Here one day, gone the next. We never did hear what he did to deserve that, but it had to be pretty damn serious for them to show him the door that quickly.”

No question about it, that guy must have screwed up pretty badly.

My wife also tells me that many employees who are fired for cause are surprised to discover that they are ineligible for unemployment benefits.

ty webb

January 6th, 2012
3:00 pm

without knowing anything about the character of the police officer, his firing should be the least of his worries. He’s responsible for the death of another person. That’s a heavy burden to live with for the rest of your life.

md

January 6th, 2012
3:02 pm

Seems the first questions asked are imperative to assessing the situation. If the idea is to protect the innocent, then one must look at all the variables to include how dangerous the criminal is. Not catching someone that may take lives on the back end of the situation can be even worse.

jewcowboy

January 6th, 2012
3:02 pm

Jm,

“CA just passed a law saying you don’t need a drivers license to drive”

If you are going to post something please take the time to actually post the truth. The law is not saying you don’t need a license, but that if you are caught driving without a license your vehicle will not be automatically towed.

You lose all credibility on anything when you post lies and half-truths.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iPcjtzdwJQ9LW1SztpZC1L6V4OZw?docId=11d55ea09b3b467fb7eeaed1bb53fbbf

0311/1811

January 6th, 2012
3:04 pm

I say make it the law that law enforcement officers not be able to exceed the speed limit, run lights, etc., period, end of discussion ……………… the public will just have to deal with what additional crimes are later committed by those who just keep driving.

However, in this case as the law is now, if the motorcyclist was/is caught …….. he/she should also be charged with at least negligent homicide in the death of the innocent civilian.

liberalefty

January 6th, 2012
3:05 pm

cops are in a no win situations a lot of times. its hard for me to be impartial on this because an APD cop saved my life on MAY 17, 1997. i can still remember officer MIKE BROWN comforting me and calming me down as blood gushed out from my body courtesy of a bullet from awould be robber. he kept saying ” dont fall asleep” because all i wanted to do was close my eyes and let nature take its course. i was lying on the ground with my head in his lap while he applied pressure to my wound. thats the memory i have of most officers, brave public servants who do their jobs with almost no gratitude from the public. i think the officer should be suspended but not fired.

0311/1811

January 6th, 2012
3:06 pm

Jay:

“You don’t fire a gun at a suspect in a room of crowded people, even if it means that he might escape”

It depends. You sure do fire at a suspect is still firing his weapon because he ain’t trying to miss innocent people like you would be. You do your best to take him out as soon as possible as the best chance to save the most people from death or injury.

jewcowboy

January 6th, 2012
3:08 pm

0311/1811,

“he/she should also be charged with at least negligent homicide in the death of the innocent civilian.”

Good idea, but (and I am not an expert in any sense on this) since the officer was not in the actual pursuit, I think it would be very difficult to make that stick.

Jm

January 6th, 2012
3:10 pm

Jewcowboy

No penalty, no punishment

How do you punish a person without a license other than taking their car?

If they have no US identity and you’re not going to arrest them, you can’t

Fact is, illegal immigrants now have nothing to worry about in CA

Good for them

Anarchy is fun, so says occupy

Kamchak

January 6th, 2012
3:11 pm

You lose all credibility on anything when you post lies and half-truths.

You’re presupposing that there was any credibility to lose in the first place.

Just sayin’.

md

January 6th, 2012
3:13 pm

“Good idea, but (and I am not an expert in any sense on this) since the officer was not in the actual pursuit, I think it would be very difficult to make that stick.”

Obviously he had already received the call, so he was in the act of pursuit.

0311/1811

January 6th, 2012
3:13 pm

Hummmmm ……………. what’s up here ?

“A federal magistrate judge nominated to the powerful U.S. Court of Appeals is being blocked by Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.), in a little-known use of senatorial courtesy that could kill the appointment.

The move, which has effectively derailed the nomination of U.S. Magistrate Patty Shwartz to the Third Circuit, marks the first time a judicial appointee of President Obama has been held up by a senator from his own party.

Menendez, through a spokeswoman, declined comment, as did Shwartz. The White House did not return calls to the press office.”

jewcowboy

January 6th, 2012
3:13 pm

Jm,

“No penalty, no punishment”

Yes there is. The officers just do not automatically impound their car if the only infraction is not having a dl.

Again, how much time does it take to post the truth rather than half-truths and lies? It took all of 15 seconds to find that article. Of course it took a couple of minutes to actually READ it. Perhaps that is the problems with the contents in your post.

HDB

January 6th, 2012
3:15 pm

First — condolences to the Porter family on the loss of their loved one, Kathy. May they find a semblance of peace at thiis moment of life.

Second – the cops had to be doing something so egregious that termination was the only option available. In many eyes, that proports guilt…..but what it really means that the cop broke DEPARTMENTAL rules to the point of no return. We need to see what the traffic investigation turns up to determine legal liability…..of the cop AND the state!!

That being said — cops need to know the law and quit driving like Dirty Harry on the streets! Let me do what the cop did…..and I’d be pilloried to the extent that jail would be a RELIEF from the scrutiny!!

jewcowboy

January 6th, 2012
3:15 pm

Kamchak,

“You’re presupposing that there was any credibility to lose in the first place”

Well there is that.

jewcowboy

January 6th, 2012
3:16 pm

md,

“Obviously he had already received the call, so he was in the act of pursuit”

Like I said, I’m no expert. Perhaps so. I just see it as a leap for a jury to make.

jewcowboy

January 6th, 2012
3:18 pm

HDB,

“cops need to know the law and quit driving like Dirty Harry on the streets!”

Side not on that. I was driving through the Connector a couple of weekends ago and there was an ambulance with its lights and sirens on. It was going probably about 50mph. Everyone was passing it like it was going backwards.

0311/1811

January 6th, 2012
3:19 pm

Headline: “Woman Shot In Eye Finishes Beer Before Accepting Medical Treatment ”

Ah …………………………. nevermind.

Jm

January 6th, 2012
3:20 pm

Jewcowboy

Logic isn’t your forte

Don’t try it

You’re like a kid playing with a handgun

0311/1811

January 6th, 2012
3:21 pm

Jay:

What are your thoughts on Obama’s “recess” appointments ………….. you know ……….. even worse than the type he condemned when he was running?

Constitutional or not ?

0311/1811

January 6th, 2012
3:22 pm

Jm:

jewcowboy and I often disagree but “illogical” he is not.

Disgusted

January 6th, 2012
3:22 pm

Listen up, all you would-be cops. You’re about to get the first question on the test to determine your fitness to serve as a police officer:

1. You are cruising on Atlanta’s heavily traveled Capitol Avenue when you hear a radio call from a fellow officer who is asking for help in apprehending a suspect on a motorcycle on I-20. You have the authority to assist in such chases. Your immediate action should be to

a. turn on your flashing lights and the siren, proceeding with all safe speed to the nearest entrance ramp to I-20, slowing at intersections to be certain that traffic is aware that you are coming through.

b. say “to hell with the flashing lights and the siren,” push the accelerator to the floor, and ignore the traffic lights until you can get on I-20 and help beat the snot out of the a-hole who dares to try to outrun a police car.

If your answer was (b), do not proceed any further with this test. Return to your life of catching rattlesnakes or whatever dangerous occupation you crave.

0311/1811

January 6th, 2012
3:23 pm

Headline: “U.S. broadens definition of rape victims to include men”

Ah ……………. instead of “forced sodomy” ……….. interesting.

Jm

January 6th, 2012
3:23 pm

Romney on top in SC poll

Booyah

ty webb

January 6th, 2012
3:25 pm

0311/1811,
I’m sure jay would say that those were mere “protest condemnations” of earleir “recess” appointments…similar to Senator obama’s “protest votes” against raising the debt ceiling.

jewcowboy

January 6th, 2012
3:25 pm

Jm,

“Logic isn’t your forte”

Telling the truth seems to not be yours. But you really should try it.

md

January 6th, 2012
3:25 pm

An awful lot of assumption built into that test………….

Jm

January 6th, 2012
3:28 pm

Jewcowboy

Tell me what happens when you pull someone over that doesn’t have a license now. This is going to be fun.

md

January 6th, 2012
3:28 pm

“Romney on top in SC poll”

Well, my take:

Newt sounded like a poor loser, scorned woman after Iowa and Rick wears his religion on his sleeve….if I were Romney, I’d keep catering to the moderates, as the far right sure as hell won’t be voting for the left.

Natica Elliott

January 6th, 2012
3:28 pm

He was joining in chasing a guy on a motorcycle.

philosopher

January 6th, 2012
3:30 pm

Mr._B .”I’ll be happy to accept the “lib” label, but I’d be a little more comfortable with the whole situation if the trooper in question weren’t being tried and fried in the court of public opinion. ”

I strongly agree with that. ‘Way too much damage is done daily in that court…and the damage cannot be undone. Sorrow and prayers for all concerned should wait for nothing. Scrutiny by those who have the facts and lessons learned should begin immediately…but the opinions should wait until the facts are out on the table.All of us know about adrenaline-junky cops, true. But many of us also know about agencies that put employees in no-win situations and when the results are bad, wash their hands of responsibility in order to protect themselves. Let’s wait for the facts …what we do know is bad enough.

Jm

January 6th, 2012
3:31 pm

Scout

I beg to differ in this case. Jewcowboy is at a dead end

No doubt he’ll deny and deflect at the end of the alley

Doggone/GA

January 6th, 2012
3:32 pm

“He was joining in chasing a guy on a motorcycle”

To be accurate, he was on the way to join a chase. He wasn’t, yet, “joining” it.

I watch some cops chase videos shows sometimes, and very interesting they are too…but when I see 20 or 30 cop cars BEHIND the vehicle they’re chasing I’ve just got to wonder: do they REALLY have so little to do that they need THAT MANY cars BEHIND the running driver?

Why can’t some of them be rerouted to get ahead on possible “escape routes” and alternate road choices the drive might take and see if they can’t actually CATCH him?