In Illinois, a church-state conundrum of real consequence
Here’s the crux of the issue, as described by the New York Times:
“Roman Catholic bishops in Illinois have shuttered most of the Catholic Charities affiliates in the state rather than comply with a new requirement that says they must consider same-sex couples as potential foster-care and adoptive parents if they want to receive state money. The charities have served for more than 40 years as a major link in the state’s social service network for poor and neglected children.”
The Illinois diocese sees itself as a victim of religious persecution. “In the name of tolerance, we’re not being tolerated,” as Bishop Thomas J. Paprocki put it. The church believes that it should be able to use taxpayer dollars as it wishes, in line with its religious beliefs, even if its actions violate Illinois law forbidding discrimination against its gay citizens.
I would argue that the church is not being persecuted. It is not persecution to be held to the standards that are applied to every other contractor that does business with the state. To the contrary, the church is demanding “special rights” to violate the law and to use taxpayers’ money to do so. It’s akin to some church or social agency taking state money to run soup kitchens to feed the poor, but demanding the right to deny aid to black people or Hispanics.
The church, using its own funds, would have every right to refuse to assist in gay adoptions. The First Amendment gives it that protection. But by accepting taxpayer dollars, it accepts the conditions that come with it. As the Times reports, “Catholic Charities affiliates received a total of nearly $2.9 billion a year from the government in 2010, about 62 percent of its annual revenue of $4.67 billion. Only 3 percent came from churches in the diocese (the rest came from in-kind contributions, investments, program fees and community donations).”
A couple of other points:
– There is no evidence that children raised by same-sex parents are harmed by the experience. Quite the contrary. In other words, the church’s objection may be based on moral grounds in its eyes, but it cannot be justified in terms of policy or pragmatism.
– It’s a shame that Illinois church leaders decided that discriminating against gay couples was more important to them than continuing to provide much-needed services to orphans and neglected children. Catholic leaders in other parts of the country have made the opposite decision.
– Jay Bookman
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487 comments Add your comment
Soothsayer
December 29th, 2011
7:57 pm
Did I understand correctly? Wingfield’s blog is no longer? Please let me know.
josef
December 29th, 2011
8:08 pm
Old Timer
The mom had her issues, but she loves her kids and she saw it in their best interest to be able to stay in their country of birth. The kids were sent to spend vacations and breaks with her. I posted here the other day about what one of our local congregations did, and is doing, to aid eight families displaced right at Christmas by a fire. None of those families were in the congregation. To quickly recap, the fire was on a Saturday, a collection was called for Sunday morning, by Monday morning they had collected $13,000. On top of that they acted as the clearing house for the many, many others who wanted to help. It was amazing. I would say it “restored” my faith in my fellow man, but that’s not exactly true. It buttressed it.
As for the deportation etc. Those stories are legion. And I wish some of our, as you call them, bloviators, knew just what it means at the human level. It certainly would be a test of faith, hope and charity.
josef
December 29th, 2011
8:09 pm
Sooth
Yeah, I was wondering the same thing.
md
December 29th, 2011
8:12 pm
Well, count me as a bloviator, as I do have issues with illegal immigration……as for the human side of the equation, it never seems to come up about the ones that are suffering while waiting their turn in line while the ones that skipped in front of them get all the compassion………..
Go figure…….out of sight out of mind. Then go watch the gumball video and let’s talk about the human side of the equation.
Am I hearing that the trick is more or less the survival of the fittest and screw the rest?? Sounds like a good immigration policy…….do whatever it takes to get here first and screw those others….
josef
December 29th, 2011
8:17 pm
md
I’m probably well to the right of you on the matter of illegal immigration, be it from south of the Rio Grande or north of the Mason-Dixon-Ohio River-36 30
But, there is the human equation here and it takes precedence over the political. I guess my moral compass points to the children and is fixed there.
md
December 29th, 2011
8:28 pm
Sure Jo, there is always a human equation as they are all human…….but the compassion seems to be restricted to those that made it here ILLEGALLY vs the countless numbers of others that may never get here. There are plenty of poor little Johnnies around the planet that are suffering as they wait patiently to enter the system playing by the rules and folks like Old Timer don’t seem to much care about them………the compassion is for those that line jumped vs for those that got jumped.
Paulo977
December 29th, 2011
8:29 pm
Normal…All I can think of is “love God, hate religions”.
________________
As Lenny Bruce puts it…..
“Every day people are straying away from church and going back to God”!!!
0311/1811
December 29th, 2011
8:29 pm
“How about passing a law that says no law can be longer than our Constitution, which is roughly 5,000 words? That would be bold. No more congressional buffoonery creating confusing laws that contain hundreds of thousands of words that require an army of legal sharks to interpret. We also should demand that for every new law passed, 10 laws need to be rescinded. How about it GOP?
Bold is beautiful. Let’s get it on in 2012. I am. Are you?”
Ted Nugent
td
December 29th, 2011
8:33 pm
0311/1811
December 29th, 2011
8:29 pm
I would vote for Uncle Ted over any of our current cast running for President. He would get this country back on the right path.
josef
December 29th, 2011
8:37 pm
md
We needed the cheap labor. It was wink-wink and the whole system broke down. Had there been a line for them, they would have gotten in it. Instead, we hung out a welcome sign and the line formed at the border jump, all according to the acceptable. Now that we don’t need the cheap labor, round ‘em up and herd ‘em out. They played by the rules, we just don’t want to admit that the “rules” were based in an hypocracy which we ALL benefitted from. Just like those lovely plantation manors built by a rightless and servile labor force, so too is this glittering edifice of Oz here in Atlanta.
It’s long, long since time we “fix it” but this “wait your turn” bromide is disingenous. Now we have the problem of millions of people who bought the line, came, worked, contributed, and settled down to raise families, their children born here and every bit as much citizens as any of the rest of us.
My thoughts? Pull the troops home, station one every 100 yards along both borders and stop the influx, quit the wink-wink crap and deal with what’s here and do it in a humane fashion.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 29th, 2011
8:41 pm
There are plenty of poor little Johnnies around the planet that are suffering as they wait patiently to enter the system playing by the rules and folks like Old Timer don’t seem to much care about them………the compassion is for those that line jumped vs for those that got jumped.
A somewhat superficial analysis. Some of the compassion for those who were brought here by their parents as children through no fault of their own (let’s say as a 2 yr old), they have been here for 20 years, this is the only country they truly know, they are hard workers and, in effect, this is their only home. To make them leave this county and “return” to a country they have never known is absurd. They are in effect “innocents”. That is different than an adult who “jumped the line” as put.
josef
December 29th, 2011
8:48 pm
good fight
Don’t you get it…sins of the fathers…visited unto the seventh generation, so let’s deport the Yankees and their children while we’re at it…
Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
December 29th, 2011
8:51 pm
When the pedophiles demand the same “right”, which they will do sooner or later, what will be your answer to them, Jay? Same thing.
Recon 0311 2533
December 29th, 2011
8:51 pm
Interesting how Bookman finds blog topics that avoid Obama’s dismal first term record. He can’t tout any significant Obama administration accomplishments so he seeks out topics that disparage the potential challengers to Obama’s bid for a second term. Jay’s minions fall right or I should say left into line. The Lemming Syndrome.
moonbat betty
December 29th, 2011
8:55 pm
You got that right 0311/1811.
The Nuge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R15a68VcG04&feature=related
Sam
December 29th, 2011
8:59 pm
More power to the Catholic Church of Illinois. They have every right to make this decision based on their beliefs. Who here would want their children raised by gay parents if they had a choice…?
josef
December 29th, 2011
9:00 pm
Unmentionable says, yeah, that’s the ticket…
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_-mu6dW4praY/TKPGKLeRcPI/AAAAAAAAbdI/FbUkFzryTiY/s1600/stop+the+illegals.jpg
Dusty
December 29th, 2011
9:01 pm
Well, I see some are wondering if Kyle’s blog is closed. NO, it isn’t. Kyle is on vacation and will return the first of the year. He left his Christmas message and you can post but there will not be an “open” blog until he returns.
I’m looking forward to his nice clear messages again. No digging for the numbers. No controversy for the heck of it. Just a message you can think about and respond. Good, honest journalism.
td
December 29th, 2011
9:02 pm
josef
December 29th, 2011
8:48 pm
good fight
Don’t you get it…sins of the fathers…visited unto the seventh generation, so let’s deport the Yankees and their children while we’re at it…
I could support that one all the way.
josef
December 29th, 2011
9:02 pm
SAM
Who? Ask Unmentionable’s sister as she lay on her death bed…
Right Wing…
Oh, dear, I fear the lady doth protest too much…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 29th, 2011
9:04 pm
josef…. yep, a pox on their houses and those of their children
And we are back to the pedophiles slippery slope…….
ken
December 29th, 2011
9:05 pm
Should have written about Van Jones.
Recon 0311 2533
December 29th, 2011
9:05 pm
“Good, honest journalism.”
Dusty, that’s is indeed a rarity you won’t find coming from the left.
moonbat betty
December 29th, 2011
9:08 pm
Dusty, they had some Newt and religion bashin’ to do over here today.
And bye george, they did it.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 29th, 2011
9:11 pm
Who here would want their children raised by gay parents if they had a choice
Well since you asked, I don’t think the sexual orientation matters squat to that decision, the more important decision would be who the “parents” are. A wonderful heterosexual TX judge who beats his child and his wife who permits it or a same sex couple who loves and nutures the child. Hmmmmmmmm. Guess it would depend on whether someone needed their nap >:)
getalife
December 29th, 2011
9:12 pm
Kyle’s blog is closed because the cons need a baby sitter.
Bunch of children.
josef
December 29th, 2011
9:14 pm
good fight
It sorta makes you wonder what’s going on in some people’s minds, don’t it?
moonbat
Yep. Gotta keep the blog numbers up and the unwashed masses satisfied…
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 29th, 2011
9:14 pm
Good honest journalism
Well I see that some still don’t comprend what an OPINION blog is all about.
BADA BING
December 29th, 2011
9:15 pm
End of the year Math test
Pair of Air Jordans…….$180
Marta fare for trip to store……$3.00
Coffee and donuts while waiting in line….$4.50
Red Bull and 2 40s while waiting in line……$15.00
Ditching work at Micky Ds for the day…………$45.00
Fine and jail time for missing meeting w/ Parole Officer……TBD
Figure total cost of shoes, counting Bail and court costs
moonbat betty
December 29th, 2011
9:18 pm
getalife, Kyle’s blog is most likely closed because of you and your ILK!
ilk boy.
Recon 0311 2533
December 29th, 2011
9:19 pm
I just haven’t seen any real life testimonials from children raised by same sex couples or case history accounts written up in the media to support the view that parental sexual orientation matters squat.
AmVet
December 29th, 2011
9:19 pm
betty, saw the Husker love downstairs. Niiice.
Yep, once upon a time the Motor City Madman was musically relevant. I never bought any of his stuff, but I’d listen to it on the radio. But, now…
Love Grenade is Ted Nugent’s 20th studio album. It was released on September 4, 2007. It was recorded at DRS Studios in Waco, Texas. Sales figures, however, have been low, with the album only selling 3,600 copies in its first week, landing it at #186 on the Billboard 200. The pre-release cover art drew some controversy, as it depicts a naked woman bound and with a grenade in her mouth, on her knees on a platter.
He remakes the acid-rock hit “Journey to the Center of the Mind”, made popular by his ’60s group The Amboy Dukes.
I’ll have to check out a couple of songs and see…
Gonna strut like a cock til I’m ninety nine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTSxAMPXJ80
josef
December 29th, 2011
9:20 pm
good fight
Not so sure about how good it’s been, but it sure has been honest! Amazing how honest folks without the by line attached CAN be…
0311/1811
December 29th, 2011
9:20 pm
td @ 8:33
Amen to that !
Jack
December 29th, 2011
9:23 pm
I think the church did the right thing.
josef
December 29th, 2011
9:23 pm
DEL
Like I said, got three of them…I’ll try and see if I can’t seriously convince them to answer your questions…
getalife
December 29th, 2011
9:24 pm
moonbat,
I have never ilked in my life.
moonbat betty
December 29th, 2011
9:25 pm
Yeah, if you listen to the entire 8:55 (the second half rocks) you will witness a madman on a six string.
moonbat betty
December 29th, 2011
9:28 pm
getalife,
getalife and kamchack ilk each other.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 29th, 2011
9:28 pm
I just haven’t seen any real life testimonials from children raised by same sex couples or case history accounts written up in the media to support the view that parental sexual orientation matters squat.
Well perhaps your latest issue of Gay Pride is still on your doorstep or you left it in your shower stall? Have you tried “the internet”?
Recon 0311 2533
December 29th, 2011
9:28 pm
josef,
With all due respect and in full appreciation that there are exceptions to every rule it would take considerably more than posts on this blog to convince a skeptic like me.
BADA BING
December 29th, 2011
9:29 pm
News item….. Bald chick Sinead O’Conner’s 4th marriage lasts 14 days. She reportedly wants to talk to Kim K, on how she made her marriage last 72 days.
Recon 0311 2533
December 29th, 2011
9:33 pm
“Well perhaps your latest issue of Gay Pride is still on your doorstep or you left it in your shower stall? Have you tried “the internet”?”
Huh?…you sure have trouble in supporting your positions don’t you.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 29th, 2011
9:33 pm
Well lets see, here’s a testimonial: http://thelastword.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/02/02/5978433-iowa-teen-defends-his-gay-mothers
But I see the goal posts have already been moved across the field from “I just haven’t seen any real life testimonials” to “it would take considerably more than posts on this blog to convince a skeptic like me”. The Road Runner could not move that fast.
josef
December 29th, 2011
9:34 pm
DEL
And again with all due respect, but we are tired of being thought of as the exceptions. It’s no compliment.
josef
December 29th, 2011
9:37 pm
good fight
It just goes to prove what Oldest Boy said, “they don’t want to hear it. They don’t know what love is and nothing we have to say will put it in their hearts.”
Recon 0311 2533
December 29th, 2011
9:37 pm
josef,
No compliment intended but neither did I intend insult. I believe what I believe and don’t apologize.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 29th, 2011
9:40 pm
Then there is this:
http://www.rossde.com/editorials/childrenofgays.html
And if you want we can teach you how to Bing it….
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 29th, 2011
9:41 pm
And this one:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07161/793042-51.stm
0311/1811
December 29th, 2011
9:41 pm
Headline: “Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Janet Napolitano has recruited hockey fans into counterterrorism efforts, as DHS has expanded the “If you see something, say something” campaign to National Hockey League (NHL) games.”
The problem is you really can’t or you will be accused of some sort of bias, i.e. Mayor Bloomberg !!!
“A group of prominent Muslim figures in New York City have said they will boycott an annual meeting on Friday with Mayor Michael Bloomberg in order to protest against police surveillance of their communities.”
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 29th, 2011
9:41 pm
And this one:
http://www.creatingfamilies.com/SM/SM_Info.aspx?Type=121
Dusty
December 29th, 2011
9:44 pm
Moonbat Betty, @9:00
Yep, but most of it was stuff I had heard before.
After reading Bookman awhile, you know what the “opinions” will be. His troopers can hardly wait to agree with him.
I’ll say this for Bookman, he knows how to whistle and make his gang hop right up and follow his lead. I used to have a dog like that. Faithful as could be. .
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 29th, 2011
9:45 pm
And this one:
http://www.csun.edu/~psy453/harm_n.htm
You sure you checked? I mean certainly you would before you would make such a statement that there are no testimonials nor any “support”….. I mean that would make you look foolish.
But you believe what you want to believe…. you can believe in the Tooth Fairy too
josef
December 29th, 2011
9:45 pm
DEL
And do you never challenge those beliefs? And, no, I did not take it as an insult. I would never call you a bigot, but you are prejudiced and are comfortable with that. We all have them and we all resist challenging them. Our standard response is most generally when dealing with someone who does not fit our preconceived notion is that they are the exception.
ODD OWL
December 29th, 2011
9:53 pm
The anti-Gay Catholic Priests are a bunch of morally corrupted hypocrites… The Catholic Priesthood is riddled with deviant pedophiles who sexually abuse young boys. These sexually active pedophile Priests are perverted perpetrators of the negative moral virtues. They’re pumped full of arrogant pomposity.
AmVet
December 29th, 2011
9:55 pm
So the scuttlebutt is that Wingfield has joined Wooten in the AJC’s blogging morgue?
Geez.
Even if cons can’t blog worth a damn, I gather their AM noise machine is still going strong.
And Herman of the suspended campaign won’t endorse fellow womanizer, Newt? Wassup with that? I thought they were buddies and all. Georgia’s Republicans are working feverishly to earn the reputation as the nuttiest of them all.
Another guy who made some good music in the day, but something went very wrong and he succumbed to the dark side. LOL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPjhakaK-yI
0311/1811
December 29th, 2011
9:56 pm
Not all cultures, prejudices or biases are equal.
Some promote good ………… some promote iniquity.
Recon 0311 2533
December 29th, 2011
9:57 pm
Keep, If you feel that I’m ignoring you, you’re correct I am.
md
December 29th, 2011
9:58 pm
“We needed the cheap labor. It was wink-wink and the whole system broke down. Had there been a line for them, they would have gotten in it. ”
And I might agree with that if it wasn’t continuing while there are no jobs…….I suspect it is more about proximity and getting a foot in the door before the door gets closed.
Amnesty #1 compounded the situation as well.
josef
December 29th, 2011
10:03 pm
Md
Agreed on amnesty one..The border should have been slammed shut then…but it wasn’t. Until we do that, nothing will change…
Recon 0311 2533
December 29th, 2011
10:03 pm
josef,
You can call my beliefs prejudiced if you wish but if my beliefs are strong as mine are there’s no reason for me to challenge them. I did indicate that I recognize exceptions and gave your circumstance the benefit of my doubt based on that assumption.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 29th, 2011
10:03 pm
Keep, If you feel that I’m ignoring you, you’re correct I am
Well sure you are…that’s why you told me you are.
Of course you can continue your ignorance in light of evidence to the contrary. You may try sticking your fingers in your ears and repeating “na na nana boo boo, I don’t hear you” too.
theyeshaveit
December 29th, 2011
10:06 pm
Not all cultures, prejudices or biases are equal.
Scout,
That sounds a bit iniquitous to me.
As for culture, while it is always hard to define, I have taught my second language acquisition students this: “Culture is an ingrained set of perceptions and behavior.” In other words, to each his own.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 29th, 2011
10:06 pm
josef, perhaps this may help: http://www.wikihowl.com/lead-a-horse-to-water.html
Dusty
December 29th, 2011
10:08 pm
AmVet,
Do you ever read anything besides your own posts?
For the thIrd time today, KYLE IS ON VACATION AND WILL RETURN. Wooten retired with a fine record and reputation. Not the kind of journalist you like, huh?
theyeshaveit
December 29th, 2011
10:13 pm
josef,
Irony?
On the east coast we have had the Statue of Liberty proclaim “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.”
At the portal on Ellis Island we welcomed them. Meanwhile, on the southern border, we have Joe Arpaio trying to build a wall.
Neil Allen
December 29th, 2011
10:15 pm
Religious freedom allows YOU to practice your religion. It doesn’t mean you can shove it down anyone else’s throat. That is OUR freedom.
If you don’t like gay marriage, don’t have one, even though an inordinate number of your priests are gay. If you don’t want an abortion don’t have one and don’t give anyone else one. If you don’t want to use contraception, don’t, but don’t stop us from doing it. Don’t take federal money from any government agency, then impose your religious freedoms on the recipients. For instance, don’t take government grants and then tell women not to use contraception or have abortions.
This is pretty simple for honest, non-Catholics to understand. It is more confusing inside the Catholic church, where honesty is not practiced, especially when discussing religious freedom or priests having sex with children.
Doggone/GA
December 29th, 2011
10:17 pm
“On the east coast we have had the Statue of Liberty”
Well…we can ignore THAT! After all, the Stature of Liberty was built by a FRENCHMAN! /snarc
theyeshaveit
December 29th, 2011
10:18 pm
Neil,
I was with you until I read your last paragraph.
theyeshaveit
December 29th, 2011
10:22 pm
Doggone,
If I recall, the statue wasn’t a statue at all when it arrived on these shores. It arrived in various pieces. Americans had to raise money to get it assembled. If they hadn’t, it might have be relegated to some warehouse someplace.
josef
December 29th, 2011
10:22 pm
Del
As you know I have strong opinions and firm beliefs. I understand what you are saying there. On more than one occasion, though, I have had my prejudices challenged and have found it necessary to refine and reevaluate my beliefs. It’s not easy but it can be done and it is an ongoing and imperfect process.
I’m reminded of the old Southernism. I’m not as good as I ought to be. I’m not as good as I want to be. But thank G-d I’m not as bad as I was…..
md
December 29th, 2011
10:22 pm
“At the portal on Ellis Island we welcomed them.”
Sure did……and they waited patiently in line to be processed through the “System”, and they were all LEGAL.
See the difference.
AmVet
December 29th, 2011
10:23 pm
One of the things that dismays me whenever the topic turns to homosexuality, is that inevitably some fool here makes the preposterous, direct comparison between it and pedophilia.
And in their horribly misguided quest to condemn perversion, have become perverted themselves…
theyeshaveit
December 29th, 2011
10:24 pm
I’m reminded of the old Southernism. I’m not as good as I ought to be. I’m not as good as I want to be. But thank G-d I’m not as bad as I was…..
I like that.
josef
December 29th, 2011
10:25 pm
Eyes
@ 10:18
Me, too.
Doggone/GA
December 29th, 2011
10:26 pm
“If I recall, the statue wasn’t a statue at all when it arrived on these shores”
Yeah, “built” is kind of a broad term in her case. But I would say she was built by a Frenchman and assembled here.
Smelly Liberal Land
December 29th, 2011
10:27 pm
md, Dusty, Recon
WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!?!
Why are you arguing with people who have the IQ of a house fly?
Do you think that they are going to have a giant burst of intelligence and understand what you are trying to tell them?
Give it up!! Go do something that is more likely, like teaching a dog to operate a laptop.
theyeshaveit
December 29th, 2011
10:28 pm
md,
It is not about THAT difference. There are illegals from the north that no one seems to care about.
I am reminded also of the time a reporter was interviewing a Mexican-American regarding his take on what had been happening in Arizona (their immigration law). Said he, “I never crossed the border; the border crossed ME.”
td
December 29th, 2011
10:28 pm
Neil Allen
December 29th, 2011
10:15 pm
Religious freedom allows YOU to practice your religion. It doesn’t mean you can shove it down anyone else’s throat. That is OUR freedom.
And Secular humanism is a religion too so when you try to shove such things as gay marriage and the gay lifestyle as an acceptable alternative that should be celebrated then you are forcing your religious beliefs on us Christians.
Doggone/GA
December 29th, 2011
10:29 pm
“Go do something that is more likely, like teaching a dog to operate a laptop”
Well, it looks like it CAN be done. Appears to have been successful in at least one case.
Doggone/GA
December 29th, 2011
10:30 pm
“And Secular humanism is a religion too so when you try to shove such things as gay marriage and the gay lifestyle as an acceptable alternative that should be celebrated then you are forcing your religious beliefs on us Christians.”
Christians support gay marriage too.
theyeshaveit
December 29th, 2011
10:30 pm
Smelly,
Can you spell argumentum ad hominem?
Dusty
December 29th, 2011
10:34 pm
Awww theyeshaveit,
Sure, we welcomed THEM at Ellis Island and we examined them and we RETURNED those to the country from whence they came when they did not meet regulations such as good health, etc. Read up!
SHERIFF Arapio arrests people who have broken the law, the people the Feds were supposed to arrest but had not done it. Activists claim he overdid it. They do not want anyone arrested. We shall see if an officer of the law is wrong to arrest lawbreakers.
theyeshaveit
December 29th, 2011
10:35 pm
And Secular humanism is a religion too so when you try to shove such things as gay marriage and the gay lifestyle as an acceptable alternative that should be celebrated then you are forcing your religious beliefs on us Christians.
td,
Holy Cow Dung!
I suppose others will respond but…
Is anyone forcing you to be gay? lol. And what makes you think that anyone sits down and “decides” if being gay is an “alternative” to anything? Good grief.
Smelly Liberal Land
December 29th, 2011
10:36 pm
theyeshaveit
Can I spell it? You need to learn what it means.
Are you actually expecting me to debate you? You would need to triple your IQ before I could even teach you.
moonbat betty
December 29th, 2011
10:36 pm
I’m sorry, Smelly did make me smile for a second.
If you don’t mind me asking; how many dogs do you have Doggone/GA?
AmVet
December 29th, 2011
10:37 pm
And Secular humanism is a religion too…
Agreed, but only if one uses the Dictionary of Made Up Definitions, in which secular does not mean not pertaining to or connected with religion
josef
December 29th, 2011
10:38 pm
Doggone
@ 10:29
You jus keep takin the words out my mouth!
Td
Seriously, Mate, you’re awfully judgmental
theyeshaveit
December 29th, 2011
10:39 pm
Dusty,
I have already “read up”. As my uncle once said to an apparent classroom of would-be cheaters, “Before you were, I WAS.”
And yes, the Nazis were not the only ones practicing Eugenics. We were doing it in this country for a long time. Read up. There were even Eugenics certificates that one offered to a prospective partner in marriage as evidence that he/she was certainly not one of THEM.
Smelly Liberal Land
December 29th, 2011
10:40 pm
moonbat betty
+ Smelly did make me smile for a second. +
My life is complete.
Conservatives, have a good night, but understand that it is hopeless. These poor people still support Barrack Obama. Doesn’t that say everything?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 29th, 2011
10:40 pm
I have helped teach dogs to open doors and cabinets, turn off lights, bring me the remote control, use the phone to call for help, warn about pending seizures and a number of other commands. I can get a dog to turn on the laptop but I still can’t get them to type a coherent message…. oh wait, that smelly dog was not coherent. General is that you? Have you been rolling in the mud again?
josef
December 29th, 2011
10:41 pm
Smelly
Okay, what IQ do you want to have for debate…?
td
December 29th, 2011
10:43 pm
theyeshaveit
December 29th, 2011
10:35 pm
I feel like it is in my genetic makeup to have multiple wives. I can go back through history and even in modern day and show you example after example and claim that is normal and that there is great benefits for me being able to have multiple wives. But alas, this society says that me having multiple wives is wrong and will not approve it. I accept the this judgement and am forced just to have one wife. Gay marriage is the same. Society thinks it is not normal so they will not allow it and for gays to try to force it on the majority is offensive.
theyeshaveit
December 29th, 2011
10:43 pm
Smelly,
Well, I really hate to brag but my first university placed in me the top 1% of all freshman that had every entered the university in its first 50 years. And the good Jesuit priests saw to it that understood well argumentum ad hominem was all about in my Logic class.
By the way, should not your handle be “stinky” rather than “smelly”? I seem to recall something that the good old Ben Jonson once said.
The Thin Guy
December 29th, 2011
10:44 pm
Same sex couples? Why couples? How about triples, quadruples, … , googles, and a single self pleasurer? Don’t care who you marry. Marry a goldfish. Just draw the curtains around the aquarium before consummating the relationship. But have a heart. Growing up is hard. Imagine the ridicule that some kid will have to endure when his friends find out that his “parents” have identical rather than complementary plumbing. Notice that Bookman is always citing “studies” but all of the research projects had the outcome defined before any data was taken. Just the old liberal algorithm: Multiple the answer by zero and add the desired result and congratulate yourself on your perspicacity.
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 29th, 2011
10:47 pm
SHERIFF Arapio arrests people who have broken the law, the people the Feds were supposed to arrest but had not done it.
While ignoring a number of other crimes he was to have been investigating including those committed against children and violating a number of laws in the process and violating the civil rights of Americans and others, hindering an investigation… but then violating the Constitution – IOKIYAR.
theyeshaveit
December 29th, 2011
10:48 pm
td,
Well, no one forced you to get married either. Would you not have been a happier camper had you just chosen the “alternative”, that is, a single lifestyle with permiscuous inclinations?
AmVet
December 29th, 2011
10:48 pm
Thanks Thin Guy. I omitted the bestiality comparison in my 10:23.
Silly me…
Dusty
December 29th, 2011
10:49 pm
Smelly,
Thanks for your err dubious support. In the meantime, take a shower.
—————————
Josef,
There are a lot of good old Southernisms. How about: You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink or You can beat a dead horse but he won’t run—-something like that ????
Tres bien? et Bon nuit! (more ersatz!)
PS # 4 >>> Did you know that KYLE is on vacation ?
theyeshaveit
December 29th, 2011
10:52 pm
It’s checkout time for me. Goodnight all.