No, Obama didn’t humiliate House GOP. They did it themselves.

Thank you GOP for letting America see who you really are””””

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#1 Priority is to make Obama a 1 term President. The Republicans cannot even do that properly. Oy Vey!

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One of the d-bags whining is Mr. War Criminal Allen West. I hope that thug spends his holiday sucking the bitter lemons of defeat.

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The best part was Mitch McConnell telling boehnhead and his retarded tea bagger freshmen to shove it and get with the Senate program.

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A two month bill? Seriously? Don’t know why they can’t commit to a one year deal. Ridiculous, on BOTH parts!

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But we can’t afford a tax cut. The omnipotent Federal Government needs the money to continue its good works.

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And yet, come election day in 2012, millions will vote Republican. Why? Because between now and then Republicans will fill the airwaves with brainwashing propaganda and, by election day, their core supporters, who mainly come from the lower orders, will gladly vote for them again and dutifuly rail against that Socialist Obama.

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This is truly a victory for Obama…I just hope the voters don’t forget this battle as being one of his biggest highlights. Do even think about $15 trillion in debt, the budget deficit increasing by trillions, the crony capitalism picking winners and losers in our ‘free market’, the ever stagnating economy, and the short term successes of various ’stimulus’ packages that haven’t added any significant stimulus to anything except the debt. No these things shouldn’t even come to your mind in this next election.

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“Thank you GOP for letting America see who you really are”””””

If this is what it took for America to see how they “really are”, especially after the last 2 years, then we truly are lost, god help us all…

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Who have been the powers behind this unfortunate drama? Both the Tea Party element of the Republican Party, and the political influence of Grover Norquist.

And, who have been the financial backers of both the Tea Party and Grover Norquist? Certain corporate powers who have decided to inflict their Libertarian ideology upon America.

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Bill I really hope you recruit lots of Tea Party challengers – toss out all those sellouts who wanted to extend the tax cut for middle class Americans!

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cave, baby, cave.

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Peadawg – “That’s funny I don’t care who you are….definitely gave me a good laugh.”

Glad I could brighten your day Pea. Merry Christmas!

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“Certain corporate powers who have decided to inflict their Libertarian ideology upon America.”

Right because libertarian ideology (you know upholding indivdiual rights, freedom of speech and expression, political freedom, and limited government) had nothing to do with the idea of America. You can’t find these ideas anywhere in our founding documents, no siree bob.

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I keep waiting for the Republican Clown Car to run out of Bozos. All Obama needs to do is do nothing, and the GOP will hand him the election next year.

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gm,

i am sorry that you have no sense of history and choose to be lied to every day. i’m sure it has been discussed here several times (but you should have been tought this in school, but hey i can’t blame you for an inefficient education system) but….
“1 year extension was Obama orginal plan but the selfish idiots on the right, once again trying to upstage the President of the United States, at least the rep of past who did not agree with civil rights or other bills came togather for the good of the country”

The 1 year extention came from the House. The ‘rep of past who did not agree with civil rights’ were in fact the Democrats. History.

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I love how tax cuts are the be-all , end-all of republicanism.. EXCEPT when it benefits working folks! Morons

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wow…i cannot believe how clueless some of you are. This “cave” by the GOP does not create any certainty in this country….something it needs desperately. The GOP wanted to do what the Pres wanted to do and extend for an entire year. The Dems merely wanted to kick it down the road for another 2 months so that we can have this same political posturing in Feb. How stupid can you clowns be?

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It’s a love-frustrated relationship between me and Speaker Boehner.

I would recommend couples counseling, but we all know you’re not really invested in this relationship—Ms. Coulter is your true soulmate.

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It amazes me that any Democrat or Republican is happy about this 2 month extension. It is another example of not getting the job done. What incredible event is going to occur in the next 60 days that will suddenly put everyone on the same page? Any negotiation over the next 60 days could have been done over the last month just as easily.

Winners? No one

Losers? The American people

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The reason Jay and the rest of his band of merry men here point out the shortcomings of the republican candidates is because they are trying to justify why their incompetent boob in residence is better than the alternative. Never mind that his middle east policies are an utter failure, never mind that he has increased the national debt at historic rates, never mind that unemployment remains at historic levels, never mind that he puts politics in front on the good of the American people, just focus on the issues of the republkicans and maybe, nobody will notice the emporer has no clothes.

Merry Christmas to all you lefties. Your boy is still exposed for what he is, or isn’t.

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Gloat while you can ………….. you will miss it.

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markie mark – ” the adults still remember that SS is failing, and what this false tax cut does is strip the funding even more.”

Well then why did your GOP masters pass it? I’m not a fan of Obama or short term solutions, but your party could have easily just sayed NO. And let the tax cute expire. I mean, since the GOP are the party of the people, and they want what’s best for the country, why not just do nothing and let the chips fall where thay may?

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Mad Max – “Merry Christmas to all you lefties. Your boy is still exposed for what he is, or isn’t.”

An yet the “boy” beat out McCain for the office of President and just beat the GOP at their own game. Ouch!

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The answer is obvious.

To address these growing concerns, we simply must eliminate the Food & Drug Administration, the Environmental Protection Agency, the Consumer Product Safety Commission and the Department of Education.

Only then will the specter of a smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud disappear and allow this nation to prosper and allow gynecologists a chance to practice their love.

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I love to see PolitiFact catching hell.

What a sham.

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The Republican Party spent the last 30 years crusading against the evils raising taxes and then suddenly, out of the blue, they decide to raise taxes on 156 million people.

I cannot see how they ever talked themselves into voting against a tax cut.

It is possible to outsmart yourself.

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markie mark – “And by the way, if you are not a fan of Obama or short term solutions (which, sorry, I dont believe because of the tone of your post) you could have just as easily, and more effectively, used your time and energy on this blog to argue to that point…”

Sorry markie, I am truly an outside observer. I don’t lean left or right, I’m retired, so I have absolutely no dog in this fight as far as payroll taxes go. However, I do enjoy the back and forth on these pages everyday. All politicians are the same to me, If believing that any one of them is looking out for your best interests gets you through the day, then more power to you. I didn’t vote for Obama, I didn’t vote for GW the 2nd time around. In fact the last ime I pulled the lever was to put GWB in office. But I am a realist, and the reality is that Obama did what he should have done last year and stood his ground. The GOP were betting that he’d cave, and they lost. Accept it and move on.

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You know Boehner cried like a baby when McConnell told him to get the Tea Party Punks in shape and get in line…

Can you see him with his lip quivering and nose sniffling saying Mr Cantor; please tell the Tea Party people that Sen McConnell just chewed me out and we have to do what we should hae done a few days ago…

Its ok Fox, the conservative pundits and bloggers will have talking points to say how they unequivocally won this PR
battle

hahahahahahha

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jconservative….again, this is NOT a tax cut. It is defunding of Social Security, which the American people are not going to stand for. All we are doing is deepening the whole that SS is going down…..

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Butch – We’re looking for a leader. Just because you won, does not anoint you as a leader. 4 years ago no one knew anything about Obama because he had not done anything but run for office. Now we know he can’t do anything but run for office. As Harry Truman once said “The buck stops here”

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It seems like, under all the pressure from voters, media, etc. etc., Boehner just couldn’t handle it and went limp.

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Mad Max: ” 4 years ago no one knew anything about Obama because he had not done anything but run for office. Now we know he can’t do anything but run for office”

Wait, isn’t that an oddly apt — as in, spot-on perfect — description of the main Republican candidate?

Good God what can anyone say about Mitt Romney except that the guy sure knows how to spend a life running for an office? He obviously wants it so desperately. Has the man done a single other thing in his life other than run for president?

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Mad Max

Never mind that his middle east policies are an utter failure, never mind that he has increased the

22 of of 27 top terrorist dead, you have been able to sleep in peace the last 3 years, please dont let your hate over rule common sense””””’

unemployment in Mn, 5%, Ks 3%, Co 6%, Ut 3% I guess he is not the president in those states?, blame your local gov for taking the money and not creating jobs the others states gov used the money smart way.
Please turn off stupid fox news and research yourself, they get paid to exploit idiots”””

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Welcome, See my 1st post and no, and while I’m not a big Mitt fan, Mitt has some private enterprise experience.

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Welcome – “Has the man done a single other thing in his life other than run for president?”

Yes, he spent a great number of years in business riding his fathers trust fund and eliminating jobs in preperation to more closely identify with the common man in the hopes of one day running the country.

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if that goofy 10% of Amerka would just turn off their AM radio for 1 week

and maybe try chantix (or beano for one or two)

they could wean themselves off the addiction to hate
and Ga’s own REM would play “Shiny Happy People”
until the sun sets over the ICW.

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gm – sorry to burst your preconcieved view of the world but I don’t watch fox, never have.

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Dumb and Dumber,

I thought that the description of the First Lady’s posterior was pretty accurate, unless you are blind. I happen, like lots of other people, to like a broader prospective on things. To many, it’s a compliment to be praised for a great asset.

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“How is this defunding of ss? ”

Um, Peadawg, do you understand how flagship social programs like SS work? Do you see the dance that the program’s enemies are playing with the public. The game being played here is one of subtle chipping away, effecting slight but decisive shifts in the public’s perception of what a program is so that the policy-makers can then in the future deal more direct blows to it without paying a political price for it.

See, if you think about it you’ll realize that the moment you start offering “holidays” on paying into the SS general fund and billing them as “tax breaks” — a howler that PolitiFact apparently couldn’t be bothered to expose for what it is, a sham — then you are directly undermining the legitimacy of the program as such — which stands or falls on whether it is treated as the UNIVERSAL program it is.

So you watch. It won’t take more than just a few years — or less depending on how the Depression we’re in plays out — for the program’s enemies to start attacking it more and more boldly and directly by next turning it into a straight-out welfare program, from which point it will be a simple matter to dismantle it entirely or shrink it way down. This is the real end-game being played here – and it’s going to take more than junk journalistic gimmicks like PolitiFact to debunk lies like these.

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Eric Holder Claims Racism Responsible for Fast and Furious Criticism

Mark Hemingway

But Mr. Holder contended that many of his other critics — not only elected Republicans but also a broader universe of conservative commentators and bloggers — were instead playing “Washington gotcha” games, portraying them as frequently “conflating things, conveniently leaving some stuff out, construing things to make it seem not quite what it was” to paint him and other department figures in the worst possible light.

Of that group of critics, Mr. Holder said he believed that a few — the “more extreme segment” — were motivated by animus against Mr. Obama and that he served as a stand-in for him. “This is a way to get at the president because of the way I can be identified with him,” he said, “both due to the nature of our relationship and, you know, the fact that we’re both African-American.”

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Mad Max

I sorry you feel likethat toward the President that been keeping this country safe”
We really want Mitt, maybe he can explain the 200 people he layed off while he collected millions in pensions, or why now he says Obama was right in taking out bin ladin but in 2007 he said we should not wast our time looking for bin ladin.

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Obozonomics

Why no frustration towards the 38 Republicans who signed this bill and the numerous Repubs in the House including Tea Party members will are going to sign up today?

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Jay, thats bull and you know it. The only media outlet that tilts right that I am aware of is FOX, compared to ABC, NBC, CBS, NPR, CNN, et al. And you have seen me post long enough to know that I dont attempt to shoot !@#!@#. And I will always try to rationally argue what I believe and not throw stones….shame on you

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markie mark: “and 95% of all national media is left…and I dont mean center left.”

Laugh-out-loud absurd. The only way a person can claim such a thing is to be completely and utterly captured by right-wing ideology.

Here’s a statement that’s closer to the truth:

and 95% of all national media is left right-leaning…and I dont that means center left.

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Talking Head @ 8:41

“Right because libertarian ideology (you know upholding indivdiual rights, freedom of speech and expression, political freedom, and limited government) had nothing to do with the idea of America. You can’t find these ideas anywhere in our founding documents, no siree bob.”
————————————————

Our nation was based on individual freedoms for ALL of the people. The Libertarian ideology of these particular corporate powers is an extreme version of Libertarianism and their version has benefitted primarily the top 1% of the population – not the majority of Americans.
============================================
Our nation’s founders believed in balance of thought, as is reflected in the Preamble of the U. S. Constitution:

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
============================================

The Libertarianism of these particular corporate powers is extreme and has its roots in thinking within the John Birch Society. “By their fruits you shall know them.” Their thinking has resulted in an unstable America in which the middle/working class has lost power and mobility to “secure the blessings of liberty to (them)selves and (their) posterity.” And this extreme Libertarian philosophy has not “promoted the general Welfare” for the vast majority of citizens in our nation. This was not the intent of our founders. It is a perversion of our founders’ thought regarding individual freedoms, into ideological extremism that benefits primarily the wealthy and powerful, of which our founders would have found abhorrent. Thomas Jefferson, the great advocate for individual liberties, had said no less in words which I have previously quoted on this blog.

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Republicans like Edward Brooke would have been fighting for a tax cut for the middle class and not a payroll holiday. Conservatives like Tom Price are simply fighting against the group formerly known as the middle class.

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Jay, you and I have had enough discussion to know I do not subscribe to that theory,,,,,and I stand by the statement that it is BULL

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mr. bookman, perhaps you can do another “hard hitting”, “fact filled” article on why prez obuma needs more time to “evaluate” the pipeline from Canada to Texas? Or maybe one on how this gifted prez and wonderous congress keeps “borrowing” from social security? Or maybe how we will be taxed in the future to offset this bill? And one final question for mr. bookman, did you pee up and down your leg like chrissy matthews?

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Max, do you want some cheese with that whine?

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markie mark

Not sure if you noticed but due to 24 hour news and the internet….. papers all over the US have been losing subscribers for yrs

That would include those ‘fair and balanced” papers like the WSJ and Moonie Times as well

The AJC does thank you for YOUR part by participating on this blog

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“mr. bookman, perhaps you can do another “hard hitting”, “fact filled” article on why prez obuma needs more time to “evaluate” the pipeline from Canada to Texas?”

He already did on a couple of weeks ago. http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2011/12/14/the-keystone-pipeline-will-not-create-20000-new-jobs/

Obama just screwing w/ Boehner on this one. “Ok, ok. I won’t say no right now. I’ll say no a few months from now. Happy?”

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joeybiten – “mr. bookman, perhaps you can do another “hard hitting”, “fact filled” article on why prez obuma needs more time to “evaluate” the pipeline from Canada to Texas?”

Well joey, considering that it’s the Governor of Nebraska that is holding up the process by “evaluating” the data that will directly impact his state, I would think that question would answer itself. Or, are you advocating that Obama should gather the troops and storm the state demanding that the Governor take action or else? Tell me joey, why do you hate America?

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Marry,

“The Libertarianism of these particular corporate powers is extreme and has its roots in thinking within the John Birch Society. “By their fruits you shall know them.” Their thinking has resulted in an unstable America in which the middle/working class has lost power and mobility to “secure the blessings of liberty to (them)selves and (their) posterity.” And this extreme Libertarian philosophy has not “promoted the general Welfare” for the vast majority of citizens in our nation. This was not the intent of our founders. It is a perversion of our founders’ thought regarding individual freedoms, into ideological extremism that benefits primarily the wealthy and powerful, of which our founders would have found abhorrent. Thomas Jefferson, the great advocate for individual liberties, had said no less in words which I have previously quoted on this blog.”

I couldn’t disagree more with you that these (paraphrasing) ‘libertarian corporate powers’ are responsible for a ‘power loss’ for the middle class. If any of that were true, a fully libertarian corporate America would have the exact opposite effect promoting growth and investment. We wouldn’t have 1.5% GDP each qrt, instead what we have is crony capitalism (or fascism) in which the government is hand picking who it want to succeed or fail. The middle class suffers from this discrimination in the markets because the best goods/services/products are being left out by beauracratic manipulation. This is what Jefferson was warning about, and by looking at history nothing good comes from this type of government or business.

Reverse the 16th amendment and simplify our tax code. This is where the perversion begins.

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Ok. They Both….I amend my statement to make you happy…IN MY OPINION…..there, now we can move along….but I can still only name one media outlet…FOX….and the remainder of the what is considered national media has a long and glorious history of being left and center left…

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Oh, and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

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No the President once again showed that he is President of the Democratic Party and not the nation. The payroll tax should have been linked to a 1 year plan (truth is I think there should never be an automatic trigger, either vote to raise or lower a tax). This is needed to put certaintly into the system. The Senate Played politics for the sake of politics and did not do what was right, if anything the President should have insisted the Senate come back and do what’s right, but it wasn’t about what was right it was about politics.

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gm, we can return it, if the govt quits demanding we pay it…fair enough? But one of the problems with “discussions” on this blog is all on the left are branded with EVERY policy on the left, and all on the right are branded with EVERY policy you ever hear of on the right. Even though I am conservative, does that mean I am an isolationist like Rand? not only no, but hell no….

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The Dems got a win here, even though it’s all BS. Even though the GOP’s resistance was because they wanted a one year tax cut rather than two months, somehow they let the Dems paint them as anti-cut.

Temporary tax cuts have been shown to have little to no effect on anything. Two month tax cuts are even worse since the cost of implementing it and then unimplementing it erode any usefulness it might have had.

The worst part is that Democrat policies are causing energy prices to rise far more than any payroll tax cut is going to save anyone, but that aspect is getting completely ignored.

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Bill Orvis

I’m truly saddened to hear of yours and Boehner’s problems. Aquagirl’s suggestion for counseling sounds like a good idea. Maybe Roosevelt can get the good Reverend Long to work y’all in.

Max

Oh, not to worry, gm’s got us all figured out! He even knows what color I am and I know nothing at all about minorities!

As for the thread itself…mo’ song and dance from DC…

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Cherokee

December 23rd, 2011
8:29 am
Bill I really hope you recruit lots of Tea Party challengers – toss out all those sellouts who wanted to extend the tax cut for middle class Americans!

It is not a tax cut. It is a reduction in a premium payment and a totally bad idea to begin with. How can we go around and applaud this effort when all we are doing is taking our future retirement now? What is going to happen when we get older and there is no money left? How much more are we going to make our children and grand children pay for? The people that support this “tax cut” premium deduction are th same ones that took out the equity loans on their houses 10 years ago for the new car, great vacation and the big screen TV. When the bill came due they just walked away and stuck the rest of us with the bill and crashed the economy. I hope you sorry bums are happy.

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Oh, and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

Thanks, ragnar, Merry Christmas to you too.

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This is the only time I’ll get to write this to all me blog peeps:

Merry Christmas, Happy Hannakah, and a Happy Winter Solstice to all!! From the Bosches to you- have a great holiday!!

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Bill Orvis White What is the tea Party agenda ?

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Gop – In your FACE……………….

You sold your souls to short man grover norquist and now you are beginning to pay the price. It’s Great to have a President that actually thinks and calculates his next moves. Yes, gop folks, it’s called Chicago Politics

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.again, this is NOT a tax cut. It is defunding of Social Security, which the American people are not going to stand for

markie mark–Great posts this AM. I made a similar argument a few weeks ago and was met with total silence on the substance of the point, as you have. Apparently its use as a political football is far too valuable to the Libs to allow any real discussion of the facts.

The bottom line is that SSI was set up to be a separate entity from the broader federal government, with its own funding collected through FICA taxes. Due to its similarity to an insurance plan, necessary funding levels can be projected out years and years in advance, differently from the federal budget which contains numerous “discretionary” items such as defense spending. As such, generalizing a reduction in FICA taxes and renaming it a “tax cut” for political reasons comes across as juvenile to me.

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Sooth

Oh, no, the Confederates have crawled from under ME’s bed and are now under yours! Howevuh did they get in?

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thanks Bruno…I dont post here much anymore since all people do here is argue instead of discuss….and attack, attack, etc. Even jay appears to be testier than he was a couple of years ago….I have never seen him (and you may, Jay, I just havent seen it) defend his conservative bloggers from his leftist bloggers, who can and are just as mean and vicious as some on the right he has banned….
but today is low in the technical support world….

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thats slow…

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Bill Orvis White.

How can you continue to have your agenda yet not answer simple questions posed to you ?

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markie

Jay doesn’t defend his conservative bloggers against his liberals? That’s no been my experience in certain arenas!

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Tea Party agenda has its foundation in a simple phrase, “If You Don’t Eat Your Meat, You Can’t Have Any Pudding. How Can You Have Any Pudding If You Don’t Eat Your Meat?” Our government, much worse than any spoiled child, has sucked the life out of the engine that is the private economy.

The agenda of the tea party is to rein in the reckless bureaucratic spending characteristic of democrats, leaving in place only the useful functions such as military, and the popular welfare programs. Everything else, if to be done by a government entity, ought to be done by a local government entity.

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How can you continue to have your agenda yet not answer simple questions posed to you ?

Peter–If it sets your mind at ease, Bill Orvis White is a parody poster, similar to Redneck Convert. Who knows, they may both originate from the same schizophrenic mind!! Good job to both, however, for being able to “stay in character” most of the time. (Though I’m sure josef will disagree with me regarding the quality of RC’s characterization.)

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Talking Head@9:42

I’ll just requote Jefferson’s words and let him speak for himself:

From the book, “Thomas Jefferson” by Saul Padover, p. 68:

“To establish and perpetuate free government, which was Jefferson’s ideal, it was necessary to blast away the foundations of the aristocracy. He (Jefferson) explained:

‘To annul this privilege, and instead of an aristocracy of wealth, or more harm and danger, than benefit, to society, to make an opening for the aristocracy of virtue and talent, which nature has wisely provided for the direction of the interests of society, and scattered with equal hand through all it’s conditions, was deemed essential to a well order republic.’ ”
———————————————————-

Now, let me highlight a few key words from Jefferson’s remarks, above:

“. . .instead of an aristocracy of wealth, of more harm. . .than benefit to society. . .”

“make an opening for virtue and talents. . .scattered with EQUAL hand through ALL it’s conditions. . .deemed essential for a well ordered republic. (Caps are mine – to highlight his thought).
———————————————————

When extreme Liberarian coporate ideologists want to put more and more power and wealth into the hands of an elite few instead of “talent being scattered throughout” our society, Jefferson’s ideals are not being followed. Power and wealth in the hands of an elite few is what is happening in today’s America. And that is why you see the 99%ers protesting their lack of voice and “talent” being scattered throughout our society.

I do not condemn all corporations. Many corporations enhance our economy. It is the extreme Libertarian ideology of those corporate owners, such as the Koch Brothers, who want to reshape our society, that I have issue with.

http://alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed (See left bottom of window which is an interview of Ed Schultz with Lisa Graves and John Nichols on The Ed Show.)

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Dem’s don’t like the “Bush” tax cuts and Dem’s love Social Security. But Dem’s like the payroll tax cut which is a tax that directly funds Social Security. I really don’t understand the Dem’s.
I personally like any tax cut because Government is not the solution. Let me retain my own money and invest in my local economy to stimulate growth.

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Bruno

Bill Orvis is what Duk-sha-nee wishes he were!

And Bill…

If you’re still here, Cuddin JC’s in town for his birthday and he said to tell you to keep doing his work, fine job Brownie..

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Here’s to all of my fellow working class Americans; we know that we have at least two more months to hold on to 2% of our pay.

What perplexes me about this dubious “tax cut” is that people who have a job, i.e. the only ones who pay FICA taxes, aren’t the people who are hurting right now. Can someone explain to me what immediate crisis is being solved that outweighs the long-term harm being done to the SSI fund??

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Good moring all,
Headed up to the mountains today with the family finishing with a dinner at the Smith House, but before I go I just wanted to say…”Isn’t it funny how the GOP can eat crow and end up with egg on its face?”

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Mary,

“When extreme Liberarian coporate ideologists want to put more and more power and wealth into the hands of an elite few instead of “talent being scattered throughout” our society,”

Oxymoron. Extreme Libertarian = no government, true free market, ultimate freedom. How would that equate to your definition of “want to put more and more power and wealth into the hands of an elite few instead of “talent being scattered throughout” our society?” That doesn’t make any sense.

“Power and wealth in the hands of an elite few is what is happening in today’s America” Once again, this is CRONY CAPITALISM (OR FASCISM). And I agree that it has been and is happening in today’s America. What we need is exactly the idea you are excoriating…extreme libertarianism, if infact you desire ‘“talent” being scattered throughout our society.’

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I’m going to join the Obama family in a traditional Kenyan folk dance to celebrate the season.

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My name! What happened to my Name! There. That’s better.

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I’m thankful that Democrats actually insist on paying for their tax cuts. Did I say “tax cut”! What I meant to say was “defunding”. That’s so much better.

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Winston Smith :”Oceania Has Always Been At War with Eurasia”

Love it! And so true!

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But Obama has so much “Inner Strength”…… How could anyone not support this man…?

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kayaker71@9:46

“. . .you are certainly not a lover of Jefferson or much of anything that he held dear.”

—————————————-

To the contrary, I am quite of lover of Jefferson. I also see some value in some of Hamilton’s thinking. To understand Jefferson with more than slogans, I am going to repost after this post some of Jefferson’s thinking which I just posted a day or so ago on the “Gingrich’s anti-judicial” thread:

————————————————————
Mary Elizabeth
December 22nd, 2011
12:13 am

Thank you, Tom. I did compile the list of thoughts from “Revolutionary Characters,” with you in mind especially, to demonstrate the fullness of Thomas Jefferson’s mind, especially in regard to the spiritual understanding that he had attained and how that affected his egalitarian consciousness. So many want to peg the founding fathers into simple “camps of thoughts” for their own agendas instead of trying to understand the richness and complexities of their unique minds, and what each contributed to the greatness of what America has been, and hopefully will continue to be, as an inspiration to the world’s community.
——————————————–

Next, the expanded thoughts of Thomas Jefferson from the book “Revolutary Characters” by the Pulitzer Prize winning author, Gordon S. Wood.

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Mary Elizabeth,

Here is to hoping you and Cobb Mom wake up and smell the coffee….

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Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner who fathered illegitimate children by at least one of them,,,

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sorry, I meant the entrance useta be where the fireplace is now…

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From the body of this post, below, which I had originally posted under the “Gingrich anti-judicial” thread, these words highlighted first, for emphasis:
—————————————————————
“It is quite ironic that the great liberal mind of Thomas Jefferson has been claimed by modern day conservatives as an advocate for their vision, and that Alexander Hamilton’s pragmatic strong central government vision has been associated with modern day liberals, in spite of Hamilton’s dreams of military might and empire (as seen in today’s corporate power and empire.)”

“Here are a few more insights for you, from the book, “Revolutionary Characters,” to which I had referred in my 2:44 p.m. post:

p. 93, “Franklin may have become a symbol for the American dream of getting on and making it, especially making lots of money, but no one has embodied America’s democratic ideals and democratic hopes more than Thomas Jefferson. ‘All honor to Jefferson,’ Abraham Lincoln declared on the eve of the Civil War. By setting forth the explosive idea that ‘all men are created equal,’ said Lincoln, Jefferson had created ‘a rebuke and a stumbling block’ to the appearance of all future tyranny and oppression. ‘The principles of Jefferson,’ said Lincoln, ‘are the definitions and axioms of free society.”

pp. 106-107: “Jefferson celebrated this superiority of society over government. Indeed, the conventional liberal division between society and government was the premise of his political thinking: his faith in the natural ordering of society, his belief in the common moral sense of ordinary people, his idea of minimal government. ‘Man,’ he said, ‘was destined for society. His morality, therefore, was to be formed to this object. He was endowed with a sense of right and wrong, merely relative to this. . . .The moral sense, or conscience, is as much a part of man as his leg or arm. . . .This sense is submitted, indeed, in some degree, to the guidance of reason; but it is a small stock which is required for this.’ All human beings had ‘implanted in our breasts’ this ‘love of others,’ this ‘moral instinct’; these ’social dispositions’ were what made democracy possible.

“The importance of this domesticated modern virtue to Jefferson’s and other Americans’ thinking can scarely be exaggerated. Unlike classical virtue, it was not nostalgic or backward-looking but progressive and indeed radical. It laid the basis for all reform movements of the nineteenth century as well as for all subsequent modern liberal thinking. We still yearn for a world in which we all will love one another.”

p.107: “Probably no American leader took this belief in the natural sociability of people more seriously than Jefferson. His scissors-and-paste redoing of the New Testament in the early years of the nineteenth century, his Jefferson Bible, grew out of his desire to reconcile Christianity with the Enlightenment and at the same time to answer all those critics who said that he was an enemy of all religion. Jefferson discovered that Jesus, with his prescription for each of us to love our neighbors as ourselves, actually spoke directly to the modern enlightened age. Jefferson’s version of the New Testament offered a much-needed morality of social harmony for a new republican society. Jefferson’s faith in the national sociability of people also lay behind his belief in minimal government.”

p. 114: “None of the other major founding fathers was as optimistic and confident of the people as Jefferson was. All of the problems of the present, he believed, would eventually be taken care of by the people.This sublime faith in the people and the future is the source of the symbolic power he has had for succeeding generations of Americans. He was never more American than when he told John Adams in 1816 that he liked ‘the dreams of the future better than the history of the past.’ ”

p. 110: “Unlike Coleridge and Wordsworth and other disillusioned European liberals, Jefferson remained a champion of the French Revolution to the end. He saw it after all as a movement on behalf of the rights of man that had originated in the American Revolution. And to the American Revolution and the rights of man he remained dedicated until his death. In the last letter he wrote he expressed his lifelong belief that the American Revolution would be ‘the signal of arousing men to burst the chains under themselves, and to assume the blessings and security of self-governmnet. He foresaw that eventually the whole world ‘(to some parts sooner, to others later, but finally to all)’ would follow the American lead. Sentiments like these became the source of America’s messianic sense of obligation to promote the spread of freedom and democracy throughout the world.”

p.115: “He (Jefferson) knew slavery was a great evil, but he believed his generation could do little about it. Instead he counseled patience and reliance on the young who would follow. When one of those younger men, Edward Coles, actually called on Jefferson in 1814 to lend his voice in the struggle against slavery, he could only offer his confidence in the future. ‘The hour of emancipation is advancing, in the march of time. It will come. . . .’ ”

pp.139-140: “Many Americans, including the president (Adams), thought that (Alexander) Hamilton and the High Federalists had been bent on establishing a regal government allied with Britain with Hamilton as its head. There is no evidence of that, but certainly Hamilton’s plans for an imperial America were out of touch with the realities of his world in 1800. Two centuries later, however, these plans do not seem so bizarre. Hamilton would be right at home in the present-day United States and present-day world. He would love our government’s vast federal bureaucracy, its sprawling Pentagon, its enormous CIA, its huge public debt, its taxes beyond any he could have hoped for, and especially its large professional military force with well over a million men and women under arms spread across two oceans and dozens of countries. America has at last created the kind of powerful world wide empire he could only dream of. In this sense Hamilton may truly be ‘the man who made modern America.’ ”
———————————————————————
One can see from the quotes above how different were the visions of Jefferson and Hamilton for our nation and why the wise first president, George Washington, tried so fervently to keep both of their visions operative simultaneously, within our nation.

It is quite ironic that the great liberal mind of Thomas Jefferson has been claimed by modern day conservatives as an advocate for their vision, and that Alexander Hamilton’s pragmatic strong central government vision has been associated with modern day liberals, in spite of Hamilton’s dreams of military might and empire (as seen in today’s corporate power and empire.)

Hamilton, in my opinion, may be ‘the man who made modern America,’ but I believe Thomas Jefferson’s egalitarian vision, not only for America but for the world, will have the final victory because his vision transcends the limitations of any particular era, just as it confirms the transcendent power of the ever evolving human spirit and soul.

—————————————————————–
p.117: “He (jefferson) had always invested so much more of himself intellectually and emotionally in the future and in popular democracy than Madison had. Jefferson was inspired by a vision of how things could and should be. Madison tended much more to accept things as they were. Madison never lost his dark foreboding about American yet to come, and he never shed his skepticism about the people and popular majorities. But Jefferson had nothing but the people and the future to fall back on; they were really all he ever believed in. That is why we remember Jefferson and not Madison.” (or Hamilton, for that matter)”

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Hmmmmmmmmmm……”But Obama has so much “Inner Strength”…… How could anyone not support this man…?”

Good question, why don’t you ask the Republicans that just gave into him.

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josef@10:34

“Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner who fathered illegitimate children by at least one of them.”
———————————

This is true. That fact does not negate Jefferson’s thinking. As I had quoted for you the other evening, josef, regarding the dangers of labeling others, as Walt Whitman said, “I contain all.”

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Butch,

I have sworn off both sides of the party… The day is coming where we will clean both sides…. Just sit back and watch… Once the dollar has been devalued, let the party begin… There will be riots in the streets…

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In 2012 it’s anyone but Obama….

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ME

I “labelled” him? How so?

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“What perplexes me about this dubious “tax cut” is that people who have a job, i.e. the only ones who pay FICA taxes, aren’t the people who are hurting right now”- Bruno

Bruno,

There you go with that bothersome logic again. Although I have to admit I never even thought about that. This “tax cut” which isn’t a tax cut at all but simply a defunding of Social Security as you and one other poster pointed out, is going to the people who still have their jobs. It doesn’t do anything for the many unemployed. Just looks like more playing politics, this time with SS money, and everyone fell for it.

The liberals seem to be in a particularly triumphant mood today as a result of this defunding of SS for people that still have jobs. Look at the terminology above- Republicans *capitulated*, *surrendered*, *caved*. Am I amiss or did the Democrats win a military battle?

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Circle–Hopefully your orbit will cross paths with my 9:52 post which spells out the difference (hint: think discretionary spending).

Isn’t that convenient. Too bad the argument you present is without merit given that the Democrats funded their payroll tax cut but the House Republicans are left with a quandry of how to require funding of a tax cut when their own house rules require that no tax cut require offsetting funding. What to do. I know! Do the same as they do with Medicare. Change it’s definition. That’s the answer. Reduction of a payroll tax is no longer a tax cut by definition. It is now defunding of a singular government program of a specific name. Hey, whatever it takes to make a Republican talking point work for ya. Just don’t think that your weasel words work on anyone with any sense at all.

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Dear Bill I cried a tear because of you.That community organizer,getting organized.

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Thulsa I think you be amiss.

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Talking Head:

The way the GOP treats libertarians is the classic case of ‘keep your enemies close, and your friends closer’.

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All that over a lousy forty bucks for workers but they pass trillions for the banks in a day.

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Thulsa I think you be amiss.

Or amrs. Even ams.

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What GOP candidate has a foreign policy worth even talking about?

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markie mark – “jconservative….again, this is NOT a tax cut.”

A tax by any other name is a tax. A tax cut by any other name is a tax cut.

The fact that the whole idea of reducing the revenue needed to support an entitlement program is dumb does not change that fact. Just as the idea 30 years ago that the US could reduce government revenue, increase government spending and have a surplus was dumb, as history and the $15 trillion national debt has proved.

And dumb and dumber keep being dumb as we continue to believe that we can keep government revenue low and keep government spending high and everything will be OK.

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If I Run In A Circle Fast Enough, I Can Catch Myself, ..Doing What?…

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It is now defunding of a singular government program of a specific name. Hey, whatever it takes to make a Republican talking point work for ya. Just don’t think that your weasel words work on anyone with any sense at all

Circle–It is a historical fact that SSI was intentionally created to be a separate entity from the broader federal government, with its own source of funding. I’m not sure how that equates to a nonsensical Republican talking point in your mind. But then again, I consider myself to be more of a linear thinker.

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carlos

5500 years? I daresay it’s been going on ever since our ancestors climbed down out of the trees…

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I said my 10:38 mainly for readers, not for josef.

josef–You must be beside yourself to know that you aren’t one of the unwashed masses.

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Mary Elizabeth, it is immensely pleasing to see a product of the
Jim Crow South, with paradox included, defend and praise a man
who would have bought and sold our President.

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I am really glad that Obama has finally recognized that tax cuts can be an effective revenue genersting tool.Since he has embraced the payroll tax cut with such vigor, it will be much easier to go ahead and make the tax cut program PERMANENT since it is such a fantastic idea. If Obama is not interested in LONG TERM tax reform, this farce will prove to once again validate that Obama is more interested in SHORT TERM political spin than the LONG TERM fiscal health of the country. His administration has a record of proposing permanent tax hikes to pay for short term tax cuts. This allows the Democrats to have something to run with since they are completrly devoid of meaningful ideas. If the GOP votes against the program, then the Dems can claim they are against tax cuts. If they vote for the measure, then the Dems can say they support a tax hike. Foolish strategy from a desperate party. Fortunately Americans are not as stupid as Obama/Reid/Pelosi think we are. The real test will come in 60 days to see how sincere Obama is about tax reform. He cannot escape the fact that he is responsible for one of the largest tax hikes in history sceduled for 2013.

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I see orifice continues to want the oil pipeline run through/over an aqufier.

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“Our whole economic and political situation can be summed up in two sentences. For 5500 years now the wealthy, powerful, intelligent and well educated have been taking full advantage of the poor, the weak and those of average intelligence and little education. This situation is as strong or even stronger now than it has even been and will not change in the foreseeable future.”

About as clear cut an example of liberal emotional rhetoric as you will find.

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josef,

I accept that he is not the father. Sounds to me like his brother is far more likely to be. In any event it doesn’t really matter. I’m just pointing out that it is not conclusive and as the DNA readily shows a Jefferson fathered her kids. We just can’t prove which one.

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I shore am glad we got this whole Thomas Jefferson illegitimate child thing worked out. You don’t how many sleepless nights I done had worrying about it.

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What kind of idiots come up with a 2/3 of a quarter extention for businesses? Demwits lead the way!

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Bruno

December 23rd, 2011
11:14 am
I said my 10:38 mainly for readers, not for josef.

josef–You must be beside yourself to know that you aren’t one of the unwashed masses.

******

Yeah, but I resent that scurrilous charge she made that I am a complex thinker…I have a reputation to worry about…

Thulsa

True. It is a matter of opinion…

frog

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What difference does it make if the reduction is from the level of SS contribution? Congress has treated SS funds as general revenue for decades and spent them as revenue. Most intelligent members recognized that the “borrowed” SS funds would never be repaid in the long term. That’s why we now talk about SS as an “entitlement” that needs to be cut, in spite of the fact that SS payments are supposed to be a return of contributions. Merely treating the SS contributions as debt is a bookkeeping nicety. SS payments to individuals are now regarded as just another expenditure, rather than a withdrawal from a trust fund that exists separately only in the national imagination. People have been conned for decades, and now that SS payments are becoming a substantial expenditure, they’re regarded as something to be put on the chopping block. We might as well simply abolish the so-called payroll taxes and simply add the percentage to the income tax payable by individuals.

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Sooth

Gee, I thought what was keeping you awake was the Confederates under the bed plotting to blow up some skyscrapers…

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Well, that too!

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jconservative- A tax by any other name is a tax. A tax cut by any other name is a tax cut.

Is this like the Demwits calling tax increases a “spending cut” because it would theoretically raise more money to reduce the deficit?

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marky mark

I believe it is finally because a media outlet for us has made enough of an impact that every blog has to spend it share of time denigrating said outlet.

Dude, first of all, media is not just limited to tv, internet, and print. The right has had a virtual lock on radio for a long, long time. I’d probably guess because people who listen to that crap don’t have much else going for them in life, but I’ll save that thought for later. Don’t forget about all your conservative “think tanks” that also march in lock step with websites, magazines, and yes, newspapers. You try to make it seem like Fox News is the great savior of the Rightwing, but the whole idea of the “liberal media” is nothing but a talking point used by righties to demand more time on tv and stuff.

You can try to peddle that crap to someone else, but unlike many Americans, I do know how to read and listen for context. Nice attempt at trying to peddle BS, but I’ve changed enough diapers to know fecal matter when I smell it.

Matters Not – “In 2012 it’s anyone but Obama….”

Really? Tell me why you think Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would be a better candidate for the office of POTUS.

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What were the differences in the House and Senate bills?

Does anyone have the links?

I would like to see what was agreed upon in the Senate vs what the House couldn’t seem to pass

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The fact that the whole idea of reducing the revenue needed to support an entitlement program is dumb does not change that fact. Just as the idea 30 years ago that the US could reduce government revenue, increase government spending and have a surplus was dumb, as history and the $15 trillion national debt has proved.

B..b..b..b..b..b..b..but the Laffer Curve?? Supply side and stuff?? and what about the blah blah blah?? You’re gonna make heads explode revealing the truth like that. What you’ve done is the equivalent of telling a 5 year old that there is no Santa Clause.

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Our government, much worse than any spoiled child, has sucked the life out of the engine that is the private economy.

Yes during the Bush administration this happened.

Now it looks like the economy is back on track, and the CEOs are getting flat out RICH.

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No doomy.

What is in those hot dogs that keep you up at night?

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If cantor grew a beard he would look like josef’s favorite President.

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Brosephus

SE

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No need to worry, Jay, this all gets fixed come November, from the White House, through the Senate, etc., etc. If the Republicans can not control the message in the state-controlled media, the Tea Party will. Merry Christmas, everybody. Better times ahead in 2013.

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Bro, how about a GOP ticket for 2012 of Ahmadinejad/Chavez?

(Since Elmer Fudd/Herman Cain has “suspended” his campaign”!

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st simons- The Democrats, and Mr Obama’s position, was/is that the payroll tax increase would hurt the working poor and middle class more

We know employers are just going to run out and start hiring people based on a 2 month extension…

Here’s your sign.

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Bachmann/Palin can anyone say PMS and the nuclear codes?

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@peter
The rightful Tea Party agenda is about putting choices and freedom back into the hands of taxpaying Real Americans who care about this once-free nation’s future. Folk like are concerned with Hussein Obama’s soaring deficits, out-of-control taxing and spending, weak-kneed foreign policy approaches and high, high regulation. BTW, I clearly answer your questions with common-sense answers that most of this once-free nations wholly agrees with each day after they read their bibles.

@josef
Real he-men like me, Mr. Beck and Speaker Boehner DO CRY when WE THE PEOPLE in the Tea Party are lied to and are so wronged.

What is WE THE PEOPLE? “We The People” are those who are dedicated to Judeo-Christian ethics which made this once-free nation great. I KNOW that we will return to the values that made us the world’s leader when either Governor Romney or Speaker Gingrich are sworn into office in January 2013.

Merry Christmas/Amen,
Bill

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Brocephus,

Come on now. The right owns talk radio and that’s pretty much it. The left tried talk radio with Air America and AL Franken I think and of course it failed miserably. Nobody wanted to hear that crap.

As for TV there is Fox on the right. Then there is MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, and PBS although not many watch it. Its at least a 5-1 advantage there. And don’t even try to say the networks don’t lean left. They do.

Newspapers? Seriously? Sure. There are some conservative papers like the Washington times but the sheer preponderance of the major papers out there leans heavy left- particularly the biggest city papers out there- NY times, LA times, SF Chronicle, Chicago tribune, Dallas morning news, AJC, Detroit Free Press,etc. Its overwhelmingly liberal so don’t even waste your time pretending its not. In print media as in TV its not even close.

Magazines? Both have their share but in looking at the supposed neutral magazines like Time and Newsweek those lean left as well. Don’t believe me. How else do you explain that Newsweek editor writing that Obama is “sorta like a God, looking down on it all, taking it all in”. Or was that the ABC news anchor that said that. No. I think I got it right and that it was Terry Moran of ABC who said Obama had “lowered himself into taking the job of potus”. How gracious of Obama to humble himself into such a position that was clearly beneath him.

In internet media its about equal. Both left and right have numerous sites, blogs, authors, etc.

But otherwise the right owns talk tv and that’s it. TV, newspapers, and mainline magazines are all squarely on the left.

And if you don’t believe that then you should have watched O’reilly’s interview with Bill Clinton where Clinton sat there and openly acknowledged that the media was cheerleading Obama in 08.

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JKL2 – “What kind of idiots come up with a 2/3 of a quarter extention for businesses? Demwits lead the way!”

What kind of idiots approve 2/3 of a quarter extension for businesses? Republicans lead the way.

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getalife- Why are the cons worried about SS and Medicare when they want to end them?

Why do you insist on putting the end of medicare on the Republicans? The end of medicare is called obamacare.

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Your Bibles ?

I clearly answer your questions with common-sense answers that most of this once-free nations wholly agrees with each day after they read their bibles.

What does a Bible have to do with Politics, or policy ?

Where in the Bible is it said we should pour money into the military, and invade a foreign land ?

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Gee Whiz, markie, when someone tries to relabel a payroll tax cut as defunding in hopes of transforming the argument to something they perceive as an advantage for them, I tend to call that playing semantics.

Someone else please try….my head is getting bloody and I am getting a headache

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thump…..thump…..thump….

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Brother Bill
Just keep doing the L-rd’s work as you are now. Your reward in the Great Beyond will be assured…

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Brosephus

Hot dogs (8) and buns (10)

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They BOTH suck,..What?…

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josef,

Honest Abe.

jk,

With w losing 23 million jobs and these tax cuts, they cut the funding for SS and Medicare for the future.

They do not stand a chance unless we recover all those lost jobs and make it illegal for them to get their greedy corrupt hands on those funds. Payback all stolen funds.

Not going to happen.

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josef

If by 40, you were referring to the total number, then yep!!! 5 packs of hot dogs and 4 packs of buns.

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Josef,

“Hot dogs (8) and buns (10)”

Hot dogs (8) – buy 10 packs = 80 hot dogs
buns (10) – buy 8 packs = 80 buns

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Bro

That is unless you get Hebrew Dogs then you only get 7 to a pack………

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PETER

“Where in the Bible is it said we should pour money into the military, and invade a foreign land ?”

Mark 12:17

BROSEPHUS

@ 11:52
But firs we gotta get rid of them Messicans… :_)

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JKL2, it is your gang that constantly writes here – anybody but Obama.

Being one of the biggest Barry haters here, I presume you would endorse that Ahmadinejad/Chavez ticket?

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Let’s see now, if I buy:

Hot dogs (8) – buy 10 packs = 80 hot dogs
buns (10) – buy 8 packs = 80 buns

Then, that means I’m gonna have to invite Redneck Convert and the “Missus” over for a BBQ.

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getalife

You know what, he would look like (Dis)Honest Abe…hmmmm….

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they BOTH- But I digress oh wise one

Not according to the Demwits and the sheeple on here. Neverconfuse common sense and leadership with the obama administration.

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JKL2

“Neverconfuse common sense and leadership with the obama administration.”

One could easily use Bush’s name for the same exact thing… right?

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getalife- Payback all stolen funds.

How is the Demwit plan to continue reducing income going to recover those funds? Expenses up + income down = deficit reduction. Love the new obamanomics…

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Thulsa: if hot dogs come 6 to a pack and buns come 8 to a pack then you simply have to buy 8 packs of hot dogs and 6 packs of buns! Simple, really!

Sooth–You are not smarter than a fifth grader–You forgot all about LCDs (Lowest Common Denominator). 4 packs of dogs and 3 packs of buns will lead you to hot dog nirvana.

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Expenses up + income down = deficit reduction.

You mean the Bush plan don’t you ? This is how we got here.

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Sooth,

You will need more food than that just for Mrs. RC and her husband can steal some of that cheap swill off his truck to wash it down.

Peter,

Bill is Redneck Convert’s competition.

Read his blog.

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You mean the Bush plan don’t you ?

Thank you, GOP market liberals!

In another forty years of trickle down, who knows? Maybe incomes will actually go up for 80% of Americans…

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jk,

If they paid for w’s tax cuts and trillion dollar programs like two occupations would help.

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Bruno

True! That’s why I didn’t break out the ruler to rap those knuckles.

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jk is a socialist.

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JKL2, you non-conservative neo-cons wouldn’t know socialism if you took a six week class on it taught by Friedrich Engels.

Seriously…

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they BOTH- One could easily use Bush’s name for the same exact thing… right

Problem was with Bush was he wasn’t conservative. He tried to make nice with the Demwits and got nothing but stabbed in the back for it. Now the “best” of obama is an extension of the “worst” of Bush. But yet he is still the “devil” while obama is the “mesiah”

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Socialism. The term the Right wing uses when American’s help American’s.

What is the term used by the Right, when they start Wars to free another country, with out funding the wars please ?

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JKL2 . The economy is improving yes or no ?

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getalife- If they paid for w’s tax cuts and trillion dollar programs like two occupations would help

By trillion$ programs you mean obamacare and bailouts for Demwit buddies don’t you? Last I checked, about the only one voting against those wars was obama. Maybe you should talk to Pelosi and Reid about that one.

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Carlos,

All I ever hear from you is opinionated hyperbole and emotional rhetoric. I would take you more seriously if you would ever respond with clear cut examples, links, etc as opposed to just inflammatory invective.

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Actually, in the “8 hotdogs, 10 buns” question, the lowest number of each that you would have to buy is 1/2 the opposite number. In this case, 5 packs of hotdogs and 4 packs of buns. As long as both numbers are even numbers, that hold true no matter what the numbers are.

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Peter- Expenses up + income down = deficit reduction. You mean the Bush plan don’t you ? This is how we got here

Thanks for another example of obama as an extension of Bush. My only question would be where’s all the seathing hatred for the used car salesman who was elected based on the color of his skin?

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and I’ll be glad to see the day when they stand up for themselves and quit allowing their exploitation

or a) get off the couch b) buy or create a business with an SBA loan c) over hire d) provide incredible benefits e) pay more taxes than necessary and finally f) shoot a bird to the lazy greedy capitalist as you have proved your model

until then………

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This “tax cut” which isn’t a tax cut at all but simply a defunding of Social Security as you and one other poster pointed out, is going to the people who still have their jobs. It doesn’t do anything for the many unemployed. Just looks like more playing politics, this time with SS money, and everyone fell for it.

Doom, from earlier–My guess would be that the unspoken premise of this temporary defunding of SSI would be along the lines of economic stimulus. If everyone spends the extra $40 per week, it will theoretically stimulate the economy. It’s not saving any starving people on the brink of foreclosure as Jay has tried to imply a few times.

Per “stimulus”, my wish is that the Dems will one day recognize that business cycles, just like long-term temperature cycles, are predicated upon homeostatic forces which don’t require special “intervention” to work. The economy is slowly moving in a positive direction. Let’s stop handicapping our long-term prospects by running up the credit card any more.

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Peter- I don’t understand why the GOP followers cry about the debt… they did it themselves !

Maybe you heard of this little thing called the Tea Party. That was your GOP wake up call. Now if we could just get one on the Demwit side, the country might start going in the right direction.

PS: Don’t say OWS, because they are going in the wrong direction.

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They BOTH suck,

Are you sure about Hebrew kosher dogs coming in packs of only 7? If so then that’s just going to add another monkey wrench into that sneaky inconsistency keeping sooth awake at night. Its gonna make sooth an insomniac.

Attention to all libs,

Doomy will cede one point of order to the liberal conspiracy theorists concerning the great hot dog and hot dog bun debate. There is no doubt. Differing number of hot dogs, hot dog buns, and odd numbered hot dogs (7 by those Zionist hot dog makers over at Hebrew) has me concluding the obvious. It is indeed a corporatist, capitalist pig conspiracy to frustrate us to the point of buying batches of dogs and dog buns until they reach perfect numerical parity. And since I only eat kosher Hebrew hot dogs and buy the cheap shiite for my girlfriend cause she likes the ball park dogs then I have a whole new issue. Packs of 7 Hebrews, 8 ball parks, and 10 hot dog buns. How many of all 3 do I need to buy to reach numerical parity? Its gotta be in the hundreds. Mathmetician in the house?

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Bruno

“Dems will one day recognize that business cycles, just like long-term temperature cycles, are predicated upon homeostatic forces which don’t require special “intervention” to work. ”

Good point, but that goes both ways……. Repubs like to intervene as well… All depends on what we accept as “intervention”

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Before I forget…thanks for all the info on LCM and LCD…that’s the math objective for my little ones after we get back from break and this is a good example I can use with them…

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TD

7 is correct. I believe it symbolizes “completion” or “perfection” in Hebrew….

If you haven’t tried them….. please do.

They rock. They go great with this black bean and sirloin chili I make

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JKL2…… Please the message about Iraq was we were “Freeing a Nation ” ? Yes or No ?

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@Dumb and Dumber December 23rd, 2011 9:11 am – At least the GOP will now have time to let fly more insults about Michelle Obama’s looks. That’s exactly what this country needs.
*****************************************************************

Wisconsin Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner has apologized to first lady Michelle Obama for reportedly saying she has a “big butt.”

The pot calling the kettle black. Wisconsin Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner HAS A BIG OLD FLABBY PALE BUTT!

ANGRY REPUBLICAN WHITE MEN ARE JEALOUS OF BARACK OBAMA BECAUSE HE IS SMART, COOL, CALM, HE HAS A BEAUTIFUL WIFE AND CHILDREN!

THEY CAN’T TOUCH THIS.

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Packs of 7 Hebrews, 8 ball parks, and 10 hot dog buns. How many of all 3 do I need to buy to reach numerical parity?

LCM is 280 in that case, since your prime factors are 2,2,2,5 and 7. So save up for 40 packs of HN, 35 packs of BP, and 28 packs of buns.

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Bruno

“LCM is 280 in that case, since your prime factors are 2,2,2,5 and 7. So save up for 40 packs of HN, 35 packs of BP, and 28 packs of buns.”

Great match…. That is a lot of dogs. Better be a huge cookout

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they Both- Remember his own Party caving on him when he was wanting to private SS? That wasn’t Bush himself……. It was his own Party..

Yes they caved on that one. Now obama’s plan to fix military pensions is to privatize the whole thing. Still wondering where that one came from. Of course the Demwits would eat it up because 4% would collapse the system while 100% is brilliant when a Demwit says it.

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Great match…. That is a lot of dogs. Better be a huge cookout

Woops, can’t take any credit yet. I only have half the buns I need (insert embarrassed emoticon here).

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Actually, the solution to this problem is to combine the two brands of hot dogs into one category of dogs. That way were only face with matching one combined pack of 15 dogs with a pack of 10 buns. Only need 3 packs of buns to match up with 2 combined packs of dogs.

Please don’t tell my alma mater.

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Socialism. The term the Right wing uses when American’s help American’s.

that is correctly called charity which the leftist routinely lag behind. they prefer the gov’t take care of the need

starting wars that should not be fought and also not paying for it- mandatory reading should be the Art of War- best rule- don’t fight if you don’t have to

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Aquagirl,

Its enough to piss me off and make me want to vote D. I had planned to spend some time today writing my favorite laundry detergent makers to let them know how much I thoroughly enjoy their products. Now I have to put that to the side and spend some time writing scalding, visceral letters to those Zionist hot dog makers over at Hebrew for their 7 lot hot dogs, the folks at ball park, and the bun makers.

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peter- JKL2. Maybe you will answer the question about the real agenda of the tea party?

Taxed Enough Already. It’s an anacronym. The agenda is smaller government (get them to do the job they were hired to do, not try to control every aspect of everyone’s life).

- the message about Iraq was we were “Freeing a Nation ” ?

No. We were enforcing UN resolutions that were continually being ignored. It was to help the war on terrorism by getting rid of one of their safe harbors.

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Bruno – but practically speaking, you only have to buy 8 packs of each kind of hotdog, which equals 120 hot dogs and then buy 12 packs of buns to get 120

See my 12:45.

Of course we have to factor in the fact that Doom eats a lot more dogs than his GF. At least we can hope he does.

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“It was to help the war on terrorism by getting rid of one of their safe harbors”

That would be really great logic, except it runs slap up against the reality of the situation: Iraq was not a safe haven for Al Qaeda – who hated Saddam Hussein as much as they do the US. There was NO WAY Saddam Hussein was going to give them closer access to himself.

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You poor middle class schmucks.

Hot dogs?

Over here in Doraville, we live on a diet of Dover sole, lobster and Chateaubriand.

Why?

Because we are completely self made men who planned ahead, who pulled ourselves up from our bootstraps and didn’t wait around for the government to do something for us!

LOL!

And the truth be told, every once in awhile I desperately want a Hebrew National dog, a bologna sandwich or the king of all nasty desires – a Liverwurst sandwich!

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“Of course we have to factor in the fact that Doom eats a lot more dogs than his GF. At least we can hope he does”.

Bruno,

I was just thinking of that because to reach parity we would need 14 of the Hebrews that I eat and 16 of her Ball park dogs. But I eat 3 at a sitting and she eats only 1. So if we go through meals where I eat at a 3 to 1 ratio then when would we perfectly exhaust our hot dog and bun supply and then journey out to get a fresh supply? Putting that harvey mudd education to the test here.

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JKL2 – “No. We were enforcing UN resolutions that were continually being ignored. It was to help the war on terrorism by getting rid of one of their safe harbors.”

Oh yeah, that worked out well. No terrorist would dare hide in Iraq now.

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Alright, TD, factoring in the 3:1 consumption rate changes our combined hot dog group to 29 dogs, which is a prime number. We’re back up to 290 dogs and buns.

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a) get off the couch b) buy or create a business with an SBA loan c) over hire d) provide incredible benefits e) pay more taxes than necessary and finally f) shoot a bird to the lazy greedy capitalist as you have proved your model

You forgot they can collectively join together and simply negotiate better pay/benefits and such. Contrary to popular conservative logic, EVERYONE can not start and run a successful business. There will always be owners and there will always be workers. The problem comes into play when the owners continuously manipulate the workers without even giving them a reach around.

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they BOTH- What is a “demwit”?

Amember of the Democrat party. It is a reference to their lower education and all the sheeple of the “party of handouts” that follow them and are trying to keep them in power.

It’s fair counter to being called con, neo-con, repug et al.

Vote obama. Free money for everyone!

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JKL2

One more before I go…

“neo con” is a term derived from a CONSERVATIVE leaning faction/group of people and their ideology of intervention in world affairs to protect what they see as the US way of life…

just saying…..

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Winter Solstice, etc, etc

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Butch- Oh yeah, that worked out well. No terrorist would dare hide in Iraq now.

It actually did. If there’s going to be a fight, I would rather do it in their house than ours. As you can see on the news, they don’t have to hide anymore. Let the kurdish slaughter begin!

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“Vote obama. Free money for everyone!”

You can always tell when someone is “losing” the “discussion” – the absurdist statements start flying

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“If there’s going to be a fight, I would rather do it in their house than ours.”

And there you have it. The war on terror, the domino theory for the 21st century.

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Class war? Heh.

I’m working to foment outright class revolt.

Anybody want to join me?

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Amvet- 2, do you and Jm share the same computer?

Only one who uses this is my wife. Since she got a new one for Christmas, it should pretty much be mine now.

Unless Jm is in Illinois, I’d say no.

PS: they still think obama is an idiot/crook here. Take out cook county and I’d say he has about a 4% approval rating.

Good news. obama best bud Tony Rezco is getting concurrent sentences! Probably still waiting for a pardon though…

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“EVERYONE can not start and run a successful business.”- Brocephus

Bro,

To a degree you’re largely right about that when you’re talking about building large corporations. But small businesses are a whole different matter unless the govt just makes it difficult.

I know a lot of very small businessman who live very comfortably owning very small businesses from being a roofing contractor to a vacumm cleaner to all sorts of things. My girlfriend’s father had a 3rd grade education but started a roofing business and did very well for himself. He just roofed, hired a few folks under him, went after business, and did very well.

I have a friend from Iran who speaks horrible English. He is a carpet cleaner.Big, beautiful house in Alpharetta and coin in the bank. He basically built a profitable carpet cleaning business catering to Wendys and a series of hotels and motels on the I-20 corridor. This guy’s English is so horrible he couldn’t sell water to a man in the desert. But he works hard and tries hard. Now he’s got a few guys under him that do the grunt work while he just sends out the bill.

As for the young men that are the employees of both of these men, neither one of whom is particularly bright? There is nothing preventing them from going out and starting their own business doing the exact same thing and competing head to head with their former bosses.Everyone on here probably knows some very average joe six packs who have built very successful small businesses in everything from landscaping, pest control, to the jobs I mentioned to a whole slew of jobs that you can start out as a one man show and then expand as you build your customer base. And that’s what I myself did.

You don’t have to be Bill Gates. You can be a very small time entrepreneur and do very well in this country. As long as the govt stays off your back of course.

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No worries, JKL2, I’m just raggin’ on ya.

And since it tis the season, and all that, Happy Holidays to you and yours.

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Got to go do the Christmas thing.

Best wishes all.

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One more oops–168 + 56 = 224, not 214, requiring 112 packs of buns to match the 120 packs of HN dogs and 35 packs of BP dogs.

That is my final HMC answer. All previous attempts I blame on subsequent education.

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Brosephus: ” If you’re counting bank robbery, drug dealing, and prostitution as being entrepreneurs doing well, you might have a point, but owning a successful business, even a small one, isn’t as easy as you paint it out to be. You’ve gotta have work ethic first and foremost.”

Indeed. And not only that. You also need a system where capital actually can get to people interested in investing for entrepreneurial pursuits. Which absolutely is NOT the case now. Right now there is an absolute stranglehold on capital for purely speculative purposes.

What we have now — Adam Smith would be rolling in his grave — is the supreme reign of the rentier.

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Well, I ain’t going to starve the missus. If all Sooth’s got is 80 hot dogs I’ll just skip his invite and take her to Ryans. Sure, Ryans takes a bath for a week but at least the missus gets her fill.

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Why do hot dog packs and hot dog bun packs come in different numbers? One eight and one 10.

I hate that too. You know most people think you gotta buy 8 * x = 10 * y or a ratio of 5 of 8-packs for every 4 of the 10-packs in order to make the numbers work out. It’s a conspiracy, I tell you. Well I just refuse to play by their rules so I take two out of an eight pack and put in my eight pack to make it a ten pack and it works out just fine for me.

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“Check the literacy rates and such here in the US and think about that for a minute”.- Bro

And whose fault is that?

“You’ve gotta have work ethic first and foremost.”

True dat. But again if someone doesn’t have worth ethic whose fault is that?

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owning a successful business, even a small one, isn’t as easy as you paint it out to be. You’ve gotta have work ethic first and foremost.

Damn straight ! Plus some luck is involved !

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I see some folks are complaining about getting a payroll tax cut. Well I heard from someone that there is a simple solution to that — just volunteer to pay more payroll taxes if you don’t like the tax cut. Of course I don’t know who came up with that solution but if it works for one it should work for all doncha know.

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Peter,

Never said it was easy. Nothing worth doing ever is. But I’ve seen a friend with no car and no money, no office, no drivers license because of DUIs, nothing, start a business which is now worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and possibly a million or more. He has had offers to buy out his company and he is now offering franchises. And before starting this company this guy was a complete and total loser. Not to mention a drunk. And there was no “luck” involved. He just got tired of being a loser and went to work.

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Some folks are complaining about the payroll tax cut because its not a tax cut at all. Its simply taking money from SS which was prefunded and as a historical fact was set up to be separate from federal govt revenues. All we are doing is stealing SS money. And the shortfall to SS is going to have be made up eventually somewhere, somehow. The bill will eventually come due and the piper will have to be paid. Plain and simple.

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Before I forget…thanks for all the info on LCM and LCD…that’s the math objective for my little ones after we get back from break and this is a good example I can use with them…

OK, josef, I’ve got your lesson plan all worked out. You start by showing the students how ordinary Americans are being screwed by corporations by being forced to purchase 5 packs of BP hot dogs and 4 packs of buns in order to balance the number of dogs and buns. Then, after a brief history of Jewish suffering, you show how the Jews are really being robbed by having to purchase 10 packs of HN dogs and 7 packs of buns. Then, in a bid for world peace, you show that by working together, Jews and Gentiles can get by with purchasing only 3 packs of buns for each purchase of 2 BP and 2 HN dogs.

I’m thinking “Teacher of The Year”.

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BRUNO

Now THAT’S cross-curricular, multi-cultural infusion and looks good on paper. Thanks for the help.

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Thulsa Doom no doubt spending has to be reigned in…….. now what to cut ?

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If we get such a rush from a mere two month payroll tax reduction extension, just imagine the zoomo we’d get if they eliminate the tax altogether.

We appear to be @ the point where no one’s the least concerned about tax revenue or government solvency. So, cancel all taxes…forgive all debts…let the printing presses roll!

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Even though it’s Christmas, I hope people are paying attention to all this because it directly affects their ability to pay for things they may want or need next year. About the only thing that gets the average American to pay attention to what’s going on in Washington is to reduce their paycheck. Then and only then will they start asking who is responsible for this.

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Gonna take all that money I save from the 2% reduction in SS tax and buy a pair of those $180.00 Jordon sneakers.

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Obama has been a very patient poker player. He did not waste his bullets on the earlier extortion of the rookie Republican mob, just stood guard on the jail while the hot blooded youth impressed each other with childish stunts and speeches. He led these worldly youth right up to the sunrise of the election with them preoccupied with their petty causes that clog this wounded nation and burden it citizens with poverty and fear. O has allowed the public a front row seat as he now decides to strap on his gun and meet them in the streets once and for all. A black John Wayne with the patience of a Gregory Peck has done more to restructure the Republican Party than Ronald Regan. The GOP pups and their barbershop pundits now are about to be checkmated in an historic landslide victory by the Democratic Party that was inconceivable only a few months ago. It is all over but the shouting.

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Grapedrankisha I think that is already in progress in a county called Jefferson, in a state called Alabama. They have plenty of where with all to chase those “illegals” the federal government can’t handle, but they have a case of the shorts when it comes to paying their bills. In contrast a little county in Rhode Island with the same problem actually tighten its belt and refused to default on the faith and resources it put behind its name and the bond it sold. Maybe Rhode Island has a little more resources because it wasn’t trying to support a one state revolution against the rest of the world for the causes of hate and fear. A real showcase for our country on the reality of red state thinking.

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luangtom checked the rosters of Wall Street and see where they are vacationing this holiday season. The equation is far more out of balanced with them. They have bankrupted the country and took huge bonuses in return. Where I think Republicans misunderstand the moderates is we don’t begrudge success in this country, we just stand in total consternation watching bailout money being used for bonuses, failure being rewarded. Obama has worked hard for his money. I doubt many investors on Wall Street, the individuals that is, would vote this crew of entitled freeloaders back into office if they could get a chance to vote, but Wall Street has rigged the game where they don’t get to vote, they just get to send the money, how convenient. Obama will win a landslide victory against a practically self destructed Republican Party that owes a part of its failure to supporting the bums on Wall Street. Obama is a winner he desires a vacation where ever he wants to go. The public will loudly support that in November.

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IS this tax break not benefical to the employer.same as employee?

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Hey, What do you expect from this socialist president. cz

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Good post…Mark in Midtown

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bookman,
as usual you miss the mark…….the issue is with the senate republicans(who left boehner out to dry) and come nov 2012 all the rino’s will be challenged and many senate dem’s will be looking for work as well……….fyi, the media spin on this is full of lies and you are parroting that…….the house did exactly what obama is projecting that he wants but did not do….he is a liar and so are you on this issue…….honest people see right through your leftist media spin of this whole situation……hussein’s speech yesterday was about as dishonest as i have seen a president……..keep supporting this liar with your half truths and next november your 15 minutes of radical liberal authoritarianism will be over……enjoy the wrath your radical ilk has brought upon itself…

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I just lost 5 min of my life reading the ignorant ramblings on this blog. I think that many of you want America to fail, and perhaps America will fail – based upon your racism, ignorance, stupidity and greed. The only thing I’m counting on is that the younger generation will one day move us forward and you idiot voters will die off.

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guess the newster doesn’t think rules apply to him in virginia…

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@Thulsa Doom December 23rd, 2011 2:25 pm – “And when Obama wrings all the money out of those wealthy stinking rich people, they can go on welfare like the rest of us.”
********************************************

Speak for yourself WELFARE BOY!.

I AM NOT ON WELFARE NOR DO I PLAN TO BE.

I bet a lot of Obama HATERS are on WELFARE. They take the money and throw rocks at Obama.

They have no class.

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@carlosgvv…don’t be too sure about that…you don’t know what’s going to happen once they get to the voting booth…this economy knows no political party, socioeconomic background, race, income, etc…just we need relief…God continue to bless America and heal our land!

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“We have established what you are, madam. We are now merely haggling over the price.”

Republicans, just had to decide what their price was. And, Democrats will have to decide if it is worth it.

In their need to win this one, Republicans revealed themselves, and it isn’t very pretty.

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It’s all politics…nobody gives a crap about this country…they’re all crooks looking to their next reelection. the only chance this country has is term limits to throw all of them out and start over. Merry Christmas!

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The GOP needs to grow up!
http://www.ryanmcbain.com/flowcheck/?p=1055

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The only thing that would have made the end to this story better would have been if Boehner had started crying – but, he probably did his weeping before he went on camera. This guy disgusts me.

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found this interesting:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/24/opinion/nocera-the-big-lie.html?_r=1

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You would think none of the righteous pugs would accept entitlement funds,As many pug leeches as others.In fact more are now living lavishly off your tax dollar.Term limits,no lobbying.would be a good beginning for the new year.

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So let’s be clear – the GOP is the party of the rich. Screw the middle class. As long as the (ahem) “job creators” get to horde their money, er, I mean “create jobs” via starving the government all is well. 300,000 uber wealthy donors to a corrupt congress is all that is important. The rest of us be damned.

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Don thats where we got Dirty Harry.Yes 4 more years.

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The vacation is ok.Should all go at same time,same plane.Waste different planes,even for dog.Like putting Grey poupon on canned sardines.

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http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/cls-top-videos-2011-24-maher-tells-me

for the 1%

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Top 400 people have more wealth than bottom 150 million.I like Maher,just think he’s little vulgar.

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The republican elite are starting to believe their own propaganda.

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As Americans we seriously need stop thinking about the Nations debt. America is being in some serious debt since the end of world II. We keep adding to this debt by nation building and many many military bases we have all over the world and that is socialism in it’s true sense. When the Tea Party and other conservative idiots talk about cut spending, NONE, zero talk about the military spending of this Country. We are all greatly STUPID. Oh Ron Paul talks about our crazy military spending…….and 99% funded by the little people.

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The humiliating thing is that these morons in Congress and the leftist President think that the US taxpaying voters are stupid and will swallow this B.S. about giving us a break with this irrelevant temporary reduction in the SS tax! This will make no difference in the economy or unemployment! And in fact, WILL SPEED UP THE BANKRUPTCY OF THE SS SYSTEM! If the SS system is going to be broke in 30 or so years, WHY WOULD YOU REDUCE THE TAX MONEY COMING IN TO IT AND SPEED UP THAT BANKRUPTCY??????? If you want to help the US taxpayers, REDUCE THE INCOME TAX!!!!!!!!! FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!!!

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Thanks Dems for ruining the culture of personal responsibility.

For example: 3 days ago I purchased a used Iphone from a 20-sumpin Nubian princess. Had a few scuffs on it so she said she wanted a new one. Paid her cash, after tax cash for you non-working types. Anyway so I take it to Verizon to get it activated and they tell me it was reported stolen- 2 days after I paid this fine you female for it. Of course I called her on her “other” number and she was dumb enough to take the call.

When asked about it she said her boyfriend (maybe she said “baby daddy) told her to report it stole so the insurance would “get her a new one.”. Seemed entirely logical to her that the insurance company should pay for her new phone. Of course, if it got me arrested or the phone conviscated, so the F what – I gots me a new phone. (that I surely deserve)

And, these idiots vote.

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