In Iraq, the old ways of doing things may be reasserting themselves
Iraqi security personnel arrive at the scene of a massive car bombing in downtown Baghdad. (AP photo)
If you haven’t been following events in Iraq recently, here’s an update:
Iraqi Vice President Tariq al-Hashimi, the most prominent Sunni in government, has been accused of using his security entourage as a hit squad. Members of his security squad have confessed, but al-Hashimi claims that the confessions were obtained through torture, which is certainly plausible.
Al-Hashimi has fled to the Kurdish area of Iraq to avoid arrest. Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has demanded that the Kurds surrender al-Hashimi, warning “there will be problems” if he is not handed over. He has also threatened to disband the governing coalition, creating a serious political crisis.
And now this, as reported in The Washington Post:
BAGHDAD — More than a dozen explosions in Baghdad over a two-hour period Thursday morning killed at least 63 people–the first major violence in Iraq since the U.S. completed its troop pullout last week and a political crisis broke out.
At least 185 people were reported injured in the bombings, said officials at the Ministry of Interior, who were speaking on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.
The coordinated wave of attacks began around 6:30 a.m. local time (10:30 p.m. Wednesday in Washington). Witnesses said that all main roads and many government offices in the Iraqi capital remained closed for hours after.
I can’t say any of this is a surprise. While U.S. troops hadn’t been involved in security efforts in Iraq for more than a year, it’s hard to argue that it’s mere coincidence that this crisis has developed so shortly after their departure from the country. We’re still deeply involved in Iraqi affairs — CIA Director David Petraeus is in the country now, meeting with Iraqi leaders — but the country is clearly under their control, not ours. They will determine its fate.
We were there for almost nine years. If U.S. troops had remained for another five years, they might have been able to prevent this current crisis — for another five years. Sooner or later, though, a time was going to come in which the Iraqis would have to decide what kind of country they wanted, and by what means, if any, it was going to be held together.
That time may be now, and even if they make it through this crisis, others are inevitable. The notion that we could go in and remake another society — install new expectations, mindsets, cultural norms and democratic ideologies, as if we were installing a new engine in a car — has been the glaring flaw in our Iraq strategy from the very beginning. There are still grounds for hope of at least some success long-term, but there’s an equal if not better chance that the Iraqis will revert to their old ways of doing things.
– Jay Bookman
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819 comments Add your comment
Back Seater
December 22nd, 2011
2:39 pm
Getalife, Seen any Irian Drones lately?
Mr Sunshine
December 22nd, 2011
2:43 pm
Good thing Obama pulled out the troops. What a LOSER!!
Wonk or Wank?
December 22nd, 2011
2:46 pm
Okay, obviously no commenter here knows the truth about Iraq War. So here goes.
For the last time. Do your own research.
In the summer of 2002, as revenge for 911, Bush gave the order to attack Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan. THe CIA had tree’d him. He was surrounded. We had a division within easy striking distance. Bush proved himself a great commander in chief.
Rumsfeld refused the order to attack in the face of that enemy. The CIA, he argued, would have been in charge, because they found OBL and they had surrounded him and they knew all the intel about escape routes and the CIA even understood the gossamer grip we had on the loyalty of the local warlords’ who might be called upon to block certain Pakistani escape routes. (Pakistan was a nuclear armed country who we couldn’t afford to offend). Rummy wanted total control or he wouldn’t attack.
Then Cheney stepped in behind Rummy and supported his decision NOT TO OBEY THE ORDER FROM OUR COMMANDER IN CHIEF.
That is treason. That is treason.
THAT IS TREASON.
How is that the history of the Iraq War: what possible motivation could Cheney have had to support Rummy? Iraq. Cheney was a Saudi Puppet. The Saudis made it clear to Cheney that if we had destroyed OBL that no invasion of Iraq would have been possible. Cheney instinctively knew that the American people would have wanted our troops to come home after we avenged 911.
The iraq war was a time bomb waiting to happen ever since Operation Desert Storm in 1991. The plans for invasion were drawn up within a year after Desert Storm. Many Pentagon officials (read saudi allegience) pleaded for a reinvasion of Iraq.
NOTE: Bush Sr was right in not deposing Saddam Hussein and instead calling for a cease fire. Why? Because without Saddam Hussein, we would have had the chaos in Iraq like we have now. Saddam was a counter to Iran too. They had to spend their GDP on defense, and they were totally impotent to create chaos anywhere else.
BTW: The Iran/Iraq war (1980’s) was great for the USA and the peace of the world. Let our enemies fight themselves I always say. Besides, the Saudi Royal Family made billions selling both sides ordnance. When that war ended, then, the Saudis had to invent a new war so that they could continue to enjoy the evil lifestyle they had become accustomed to: enter the very bribable Cheney. enter the gullible and weak-deek’d Bush Jr.
You can’t write this stuff. It has to happen. over and over all throughout history. (but what Shakespear did with same material, eh?) It’s but a handful of us that causes all the strife. Just like it only takes one troll-coddler (bookman) 2 stink up a newspaper blog.
W turned us all into Visigoths, who invaded where they chose. We invaded an entire country for no reason, simply because we could. Uh, look what happend to all of the damn huns, man.
It wasn’t pretty. You like to predict the future? Read what happened to Attilla. Hannibal. Taras Bulbar. I mean, Yul Brynner had to kill his own son, Tony Curtis, man for sexting a rival tribe’s babe, man.
Thulsa Doom
December 22nd, 2011
2:51 pm
josef
December 22nd, 2011
2:29 pm
THULSA
Rwanda? What would Newt have done, being the “acknowledged” expert on and apologist for Belgian colonialism…?
josef,
I dunno what Newt woulda done. If he’s as hawkish as is suggested then hopefully he would have intervened. I think he woulda intervened for the wrong reasons- 1-ego would have him telling the country he is an expert on the area, and 2- it would have been a chance for him to win himself a nice, neat, quick little war as a chicken hawk, and 3- in his mind it would have helped his image in the black community.
I don’t know what Belgian colonialism has to do with it other than the fact that intervention would have been obviously on the side of the minority Tutsis and Hutu moderates and unless my history is off it was the Tutsis that the Belgians installed to lead the nation.
getalife
December 22nd, 2011
2:54 pm
“Getalife, Seen any Irian Drones lately?”
No but if you find a link to the video of that drone, let me look at it.
Adam
December 22nd, 2011
2:54 pm
Rwanda? What would Newt have done
He would have held a book signing.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 22nd, 2011
2:55 pm
Woodstock Mike : “What’s up with this guy?? So strange how he blames America for the world’s problems.”
Are you saying I overestimate the wrongs done by the US on the international stage? Please, do tell me where I’m wrong. Or is it that you’re offended at the very mention that maybe some of the US’s actions have had ill effects in the world?
Thulsa Doom
December 22nd, 2011
2:55 pm
Wink or Wonk,
I’m not going to insult your intelligence by suggesting that you actually believe any of what you just posted.
Wonk or Wank?
December 22nd, 2011
3:00 pm
It’s history, Thulsa Doom. Maybe you prefer revisionist’s history. Bush was a great president and one of our best commander in chiefs. His timely order to attack and destroy OBL and AL Queda and the Taliban army deserves to rank up there with Lincoln’s own orders to Grant. ATTACK!!!!
Notice how there was no attack for nearly six weeks, which allowed OBL to escape.
It’s documented that Rummy refused to attack if the CIA was in control of his division that would have done the actual attack.
That’s just fact. That’s just history. Rummy didn’t trust the CIA, and he had reason not to. Boy do you have research to do.
getalife
December 22nd, 2011
3:03 pm
Yeah, we blogged during the Iraq occupation.
We know the history.
Spin it doomy.
Every time I hear Iraq I cringe waiting for the bad news.
Wonk or Wank?
December 22nd, 2011
3:04 pm
Look, I wish that Rummy had attacked and killed OBL and destroyed AL Queda and the Taliban and our troops would have come home and Iraq would have been the mini threat to world peace it was.
But that’s not what happened. The Saudi Royal Family owns our entire defense industry, thus it is a controlling factor in all the Pentagon’s policies. You don’t get into the Pentagon unless you suck a Saudi Royal Family Deek. OKAy??
Internalize it. Admit it to yourself, and then go stick your thick skull into the toilet. Saudi’s rule our foreign policy and control the allocation of our collateral damage (read slaughter of innocent civilians).
Fact.
JACK.
Talking Head
December 22nd, 2011
3:05 pm
TD,
Remember, we went into Iraq for oil. That’s why we have control over it and prices are so low….oh wait.
Jackie
December 22nd, 2011
3:09 pm
Things are bad and will get worse because there is no one left with the military muscle to stop the war(s) that will ensue in Iraq.
Many analysts warned against removing Saddam Hussein from power, even though he was not what most observers would describe as a democratic figure.
My question is, how many leaders throughout the world would meet the standard we set for leaders of sovereign countries except ours?
Adam
December 22nd, 2011
3:09 pm
Yes, gas prices are staying low. It’s all Obama’s fault.
Jm
December 22nd, 2011
3:17 pm
O. Bummer
Welcome to the Occupation
December 22nd, 2011
3:18 pm
Jackie: “My question is, how many leaders throughout the world would meet the standard we set for leaders of sovereign countries except ours?”
More to the point, do WE even meet our own standards that we set for others to follow?
In Italy and Greece the financial lobbyists just installed one of their own as national leaders. “Technocrats” they call them. How do you like that?
And how about here? Are we closed to having Goldman Sachs choose our national leader? Or maybe we’ve already arrived. They were one of Obama’s top campaign contributors in ‘08.
DebbieDoRight
December 22nd, 2011
3:19 pm
Jackie: Many analysts warned against removing Saddam Hussein from power, even though he was not what most observers would describe as a democratic figure.
That’s why BushI didn’t get rid of him. If only he would’ve given Junior the memo……….
Jm
December 22nd, 2011
3:21 pm
Obama running America like he’s put it together with spit and sealing wax
Which he has
Two month extension
What a mess
Thulsa Doom
December 22nd, 2011
3:22 pm
“The Saudi Royal Family owns our entire defense industry, thus it is a controlling factor in all the Pentagon’s policies. You don’t get into the Pentagon unless you suck a Saudi Royal Family Deek. OKAy??”
Another episode of “when liberals go bonkers”. Who knew that the entire U.S. military is owned by the Saudis? Who knew?
Finn McCool
December 22nd, 2011
3:24 pm
Romney won’t show his tax records? hmmmm
Jm
December 22nd, 2011
3:24 pm
Let the payroll tax break just expire
There’s no way the democrats and republicans can come together on this
Thulsa Doom
December 22nd, 2011
3:24 pm
Adam,
Gas prices are staying low? Really? $3 a gallon is low? Only if you’re a toddler and haven’t been around long enough to know any better.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 22nd, 2011
3:25 pm
DDR – how are you girl?
Saddam was the buffer between Iran and the Saudis. He had already lost once and was unwilling to try to conquer more territory.
An egomaniac, murderer, etc. he was all of those and much more, but he was easier to control vs what I am afraid we are about to see.
Thulsa Doom
December 22nd, 2011
3:27 pm
Talking Head,
Yes. I’m still waiting for that $2 a gallon gas since we went into Iraq “for the oil”.
Talking Head
December 22nd, 2011
3:29 pm
Unemployment numbers will be reported at or below 8% for Obama before the election, and we will have around 30-50 million people out of work who have been out of work for a while and haven given up. This has been a trend for the past 3 years and it looks like it will continue.
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 22nd, 2011
3:30 pm
the payroll tax break if there was a 60 day extension would be hard to implement for large scale computer applications within 30 days.
If it was going to be done it should have been done in Oct. BOTH sides are playing with the people
Jackie
December 22nd, 2011
3:30 pm
@Welcome
The contributions made by Goldman Sachs is peanuts compared to what Koch Brothers and others have already contributed to the current round of GOP candiddates for state, local and Federal elected officials.
Butch Cassidy
December 22nd, 2011
3:32 pm
Mr. Sunshine – “Good thing Obama pulled out the troops. What a LOSER!!”
It is a good thing since Bush had already agreed to the terms, and the Iraquis wanted us out. I suppose if you were in charge you’d simply tell the Iraqi government that we were staying no matter what, and if they didn’t like it, they could just suck it!
md
December 22nd, 2011
3:34 pm
Just for clarification after that first poster on this thread………Saddam started it.
Interesting how so many totally forget the numerous UN resolutions prior to this fiasco…….sure, Bush sent us in, but he certainly didn’t start it all.
Jackie
December 22nd, 2011
3:37 pm
@Jm
The payroll tax reduction act has been a part of the debate since the summer. To date, the so-called conservatives in the House and Senate have refused to debate the merits and vote it up or down.
The current standoff is reflective of the methods used by the GOP; “do it my way or no way at all.”
President Obama finally stood up to those pretenders and they have no method of dealing with his newly found backbone.
The mess has been created by the so-called conservatives.
md
December 22nd, 2011
3:38 pm
“That’s why BushI didn’t get rid of him. If only he would’ve given Junior the memo……….”
umm…..Bush I stopped because he had no UN mandate to continue………and a fragile coalition would have rebelled had he gone in without one.
md
December 22nd, 2011
3:40 pm
“President Obama finally stood up to those pretenders and they have no method of dealing with his newly found backbone.”
A 2 month solution hardly registers as much of a “backbone”………………
Welcome to the Occupation
December 22nd, 2011
3:40 pm
Jackie: “The contributions made by Goldman Sachs is peanuts compared to what Koch Brothers and others have already contributed to the current round of GOP candiddates for state, local and Federal elected officials.”
Well, in the end the Koch Bros. and Goldman Sachs are pushing the same things. But, basically I agree.
TaxPayer
December 22nd, 2011
3:43 pm
Boehner begging Obama to step in and make the Senate Republicans negotiate.
You gotta love it… unless you’re a Republican.
Wonk or Wank?
December 22nd, 2011
3:46 pm
Thulsa, yes, I used a metaphor too far. Of course, I apologize. You must have done your own research and understand who Haliburton is. You must know Cheney’s background. I would have done the same thing that Cheney did to obtain the favor that he managed to glean by his profitable take on what constitutes collateral damage. I’d be worth meeliuns and meeliuns.
I like money like the next man. Cheney is a traitor. Face it.
Jackie
December 22nd, 2011
3:48 pm
@md
You fail to recognize the roadblocks the so-called conservatives have placed in front of President Obama and the country as a whole.
It was clearly explained by Sen. McConnel(R-KY) “..the 2-month extension will give us time to get back from the holidays and allow us time to work on a permanent solution.”
You do realize a vast majority of economists say that if the payroll tax deduction is not voted up, there will be a loss of one-half of one percent loss in the overall GDP growth in 2012 with the expected growth to be between 2 to 2 and-on-half growth.
What would you prefer happen with more than 11 million Americans under-employed or unemployed?
Thulsa Doom
December 22nd, 2011
3:49 pm
Wonk or Wank,
Are you related to getalife by chance? Twins separated at birth possibly?
RB from Gwinnett
December 22nd, 2011
3:49 pm
“Another episode of “when liberals go bonkers”. Who knew that the entire U.S. military is owned by the Saudis? Who knew?”
Better yet, Obama has had 3 years to do something about it. Why hasn’t he?
Jackie
December 22nd, 2011
3:51 pm
@md
If President Obama would have caved to those petulant children in the House this time, the entire country would have shown righteous indignation and probably revulsion for trying to form a bi-partisan conversation with those who refuses to compromise.
Thulsa Doom
December 22nd, 2011
3:52 pm
“You do realize a vast majority of economists say that if the payroll tax deduction is not voted up, there will be a loss of one-half of one percent loss in the overall GDP growth in 2012 with the expected growth to be between 2 to 2 and-on-half growth”
Jackie,
Sooooo the “vast majority of economists agree” on this position. Aaaand of course you can back up your assertion that the “vast majority of economists agree” with a linkee right? One that shows this “vast majority of economists all agreeing” in unison.
Jackie
December 22nd, 2011
3:52 pm
@RB
Why needs to be done to further enhance the finest military in the world?
md
December 22nd, 2011
3:53 pm
“It was clearly explained by Sen. McConnel(R-KY) “..the 2-month extension will give us time to get back from the holidays and allow us time to work on a permanent solution.””
Which means the number 1 priority in the Senate was vacation time for the Holidays vs doing the country’s business. I would have said nobody goes home until a real solution is voted on…….bunch of self centered misfits…………..
Thulsa Doom
December 22nd, 2011
3:54 pm
“those petulant children in the House”
Aaaaah. I see. So when they disagree with the potus they are “petulant children”. Such is liberal discourse.
Jm
December 22nd, 2011
3:54 pm
Doom
Yes. Wonk or wank is the same a getalife
Getalife. Use on name
Jackie
December 22nd, 2011
3:55 pm
@Thulsa
Take a look at this and see what you come up with?
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/12/economists-split-on-job-creating-power-of-payroll-tax-cut/
Thulsa Doom
December 22nd, 2011
3:57 pm
I’m surprised those Saudi sheiks who own the pentagon and the entire U.S. defense industry haven’t nuked and done away with completely that little nuisance state called Israel. What could they possibly be waiting for?
TaxPayer
December 22nd, 2011
3:57 pm
I just cannot understand why that uppity Obama is not able to just call up his dear friend, Mitch, over in the Senate, and ask him over for a beer so they can work out an amicable solution to their impasse with the House Republicans. Why! WHY!
Jackie
December 22nd, 2011
3:58 pm
@Thulsa
Don’t know if you have children, but the way the so-called conservatives negotiate, it’s either their way or no way.
I think you would agree that many things need to be done to get the economy going, yet, the so-called conservatives in the House and sometimes the Senate block all efforts to help the American worker.
Would you not agree they have the economy over a barrell and have rebuffed all attemps at bi-partisan compromise?
Talking Head
December 22nd, 2011
3:59 pm
Kautter of the Kogod Tax Center, who favors extending the payroll tax holiday, admits that the economic community is deeply divided.
“Of the economists I’ve talked to and from what I’ve read,” he said, “there is a clear division in the economic community among economists as to the impact of the payroll tax reduction for this year.”
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/12/economists-split-on-job-creating-power-of-payroll-tax-cut/
Jackie @ 3:48 “You do realize a vast majority of economists say that if the payroll tax deduction is not voted up, there will be a loss of one-half of one percent loss in the overall GDP growth in 2012 with the expected growth to be between 2 to 2 and-on-half growth.”
So basically Jackie doesn’t know anything except spoon fed garbage.
md
December 22nd, 2011
4:00 pm
“Kautter of the Kogod Tax Center, who favors extending the payroll tax holiday, admits that the economic community is deeply divided.”
Jackie……sorry, but I don’t interpret “deeply divided” as equating to “a vast majority” either.
According to your link, even the dems were divided on their vote…….which should send up a red flag or two.
Thulsa Doom
December 22nd, 2011
4:01 pm
Jackie,
The very headline of your link says economists are split on the job creating power of the payroll tax cut. So if the headline says that then where pray tell do you come up with the statement ” THE VAST MAJORITY OF ECONOMISTS AGREE” on this position. I believe you are in some need of reading comprehension skills. Start by reading that headline over and over and over till you get it.
Jm
December 22nd, 2011
4:02 pm
Conservatives don’t have the economy over a barrell
Jackie hyperbole
The tax cut extension won’t make any difference unless spending is cut
But democrats won’t let spending be cut so it is irrelevant
Let it expire
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 22nd, 2011
4:02 pm
Boner is really going to suffer from his inability to control the repub. members of the house.
He agreed to pass the 2 month extension, but the TPer’s and other far right repubs, refused the compromise.
Boner has lost power as a result and has given the keys to the car to the teenagers.
Jm
December 22nd, 2011
4:03 pm
Plenty of economists say this tax cut will not have any impact
Let it go
RG Readmore
December 22nd, 2011
4:03 pm
josef
December 22nd, 2011
12:07 pm
Readmore
Isn’t that one good!
His eyes-how they delighted! his sh*t-eating smirk, how merry!
His cheeks were like roses, his nose like a cherry!
His crooked mouth was drawn up like a bow,
And the drool of his chin was as white as the snow.
Isn’t it just delightful! Fills me with so much Christmas cheer. I really think this is a new Christmas classic – right up there with Frosty the Snowman, Rudolph, or It’s a Wonderful Life. We need to film ol’ Bill sitting in his chair, in his jammies, smoking his pipe, reading the BOW Christmas tales and play it every Christmas season! “Everytime you hear a bell, Bill Orvis gets that much more batshyt crazy…”
Talking Head
December 22nd, 2011
4:04 pm
Common Sense @ 4:02,
So according to you, having a stance on principle is foolish and having a stance on politics is wise.
The Thin Guy
December 22nd, 2011
4:05 pm
On this date 50 years ago, Dec 22, 1961, this guy
http://www.wsmv.com/story/16022082/first-vietnam-war-casualty-was-tennessee-soldier
became the first of 57,000 Americans killed in Vietnam. And for what? Saigon is now Ho Chi Minh City and the shoes that I am wear were made in Vietnam.
MJ
December 22nd, 2011
4:07 pm
Jm
December 22nd, 2011
4:03 pm
Plenty of economists say this tax cut will not have any impact
Let it go
And plenty of Republicans said the Bush tax cuts would create jobs!
Jackie
December 22nd, 2011
4:07 pm
@Talking Head
Mr. Kauther indicates many economists are divided on the “impact of the tax reduction this year…”
Did you conveniently eliminate that thought from your analysis?
Thulsa Doom
December 22nd, 2011
4:08 pm
Jackie
December 22nd, 2011
3:58 pm
@Thulsa
“Don’t know if you have children, but the way the so-called conservatives negotiate, it’s either their way or no way.”
Jackie,
Are you sure your not confusing this with the passage of both Obamacare and the stimulus which were both the Democrats “our way or the highway” screw you to the Republicans.
Do I have children? Nope. 2 nieces that I love very much 5 and 7. Which makes me wonder and want to ask you because its a moral question. Why does this man keep piling trillions of dollars of debt on the backs of my nieces and future generations and not giving a damn about it in the process? Is it moral for this man to do this to children? Does he have no shame? My nieces are very little. They have small backs and can only shoulder so much of a burden. Why does this man and the Democrats continously pile so much debt on their little backs?
TaxPayer
December 22nd, 2011
4:09 pm
At least no one else will be harmed as a result of the house Republican’s imeptitude. I mean, it’s not like doctor’s or medicare recipients will be affected. It’s not like people subjected to the AMT will feel any pain. It’s just millions of average working Americans that will suffer the loss of a tank of gas a week, give or take. Don’t worry about it. Republicans must stick to their plan. What was that plan again. Oh Yes! No tax cuts for anyone but the wealthiest. The rest of you don’t matter.
Jackie
December 22nd, 2011
4:10 pm
@Jm
With the control the so-called conservatives have over economic policies, if they don’t have the economy over a barrel who does?
How many pieces of legislation have the passed that would give the American worker the opportunity to get a get?
Please give me your best explanation.
Jm
December 22nd, 2011
4:12 pm
MJ
Income tax has a bigger impact than the payroll tax
Because of labor force participation
And cap on the tax
And because of the size of the changes made to incometax rates
Common Sense isn't very Common
December 22nd, 2011
4:12 pm
So according to you, having a stance on principle is foolish and having a stance on politics is wise.
————————–
They don’t have principles either side. They also will not compromise on anything.
Compromise is not a dirty word when you look at promises made vs promises kept.
Boner said he would get the 2 month extension passed, he didn’t.
The Senate compromised with the intent to revisit the bill within the next 2 months.
Olympic Snow
December 22nd, 2011
4:13 pm
Are you sure your not confusing this with the passage of both Obamacare and the stimulus which were both the Democrats “our way or the highway” screw you to the Republicans.
Starting with a Republican idea for healthcare reform and working with Republicans throughout the entire process is not “our way or the highway”.
Jackie
December 22nd, 2011
4:14 pm
@Thulsa
With children, if they can’t get their way, often they threaten to hold their breath until someone gives them what they want.
md
December 22nd, 2011
4:19 pm
“Starting with a Republican idea for healthcare reform and working with Republicans throughout the entire process is not “our way or the highway””
Interesting comment from an interesting handle considering it only got out of committee because of Ms Snowe………who turned around and voted against it because she felt betrayed…….
Look it up.
Younguns Shouldn't Play in the House
December 22nd, 2011
4:20 pm
If only the economy were not getting better, our plan could still work.
Rightwing Troll
December 22nd, 2011
4:22 pm
Republicans are willing to compromise. They’ve compromised big time. Just look at thier leading candidates for President.
Talking Head
December 22nd, 2011
4:22 pm
“With the control the so-called conservatives have over economic policies, if they don’t have the economy over a barrel who does?
How many pieces of legislation have the passed that would give the American worker the opportunity to get a get?
Please give me your best explanation.”
Jackie, the ‘conservatives’ which I’m assuming you mean Republicans control the House, and the Democrats controll the Senate and the Presidency. The House has passed numerous bills that have died in the Senate, bc the Democrats have control. Additionally, even if the Senate passes a bill from the House, Obama can veto that bill.
Once again, spoon fed garbage.
Olympic Snow
December 22nd, 2011
4:24 pm
Interesting comment from an interesting handle considering it only got out of committee because of Ms Snowe………who turned around and voted against it because she felt betrayed…….
Look it up.
Otay. Now what.
Soothsayer
December 22nd, 2011
4:26 pm
The Thin Guy @ 4:05
“On this date 50 years ago, Dec 22, 1961, this guy became the first of 57,000 Americans killed in Vietnam. And for what? Saigon is now Ho Chi Minh City and the shoes that I am wear were made in Vietnam.”
We spent thousands of lives in a conflict that was, from the very beginning, unwinnable. As a final insult to those who died, now we ship the jobs that their sons and daughters might otherwise have to Vietnam.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 22nd, 2011
4:27 pm
Talking Head: “Jackie, the ‘conservatives’ which I’m assuming you mean Republicans control the House, and the Democrats controll the Senate and the Presidency.”
Did you see what you did? You equated ‘conservatives’ with Republicans and implied they are on the opposing side as Democrats, which of course is not true.
Today ALL Republicans are effectively conservative. But NOT all Democrats are non-conservative (since many Democrats are in fact conservative, e.g. Blue Dogs, even arguably the president).
Steve - USA
December 22nd, 2011
4:28 pm
Obama wanted 12 months and Pelosi wanted 12 months, suddenly 2 months is the way to go?
What is going to change in the next 60 days that you can’t go 12 months right now.
Jackie
December 22nd, 2011
4:29 pm
@Talking
You seem to be missing the basic procedures of our democratic Republic.
Spending and budgets originate in the House and the Senate either approves or agrees to the proposals with the President signing that piece of legislation into law.
The Senate effectively has a veto because they can filibuster the bill; the President has an actual veto and can reject the bill and it does not become law unless that House and Senate override his veto.
Soothsayer
December 22nd, 2011
4:30 pm
Yep. Got the robo-call from ol’ Newt. You can all imagine my shock at having received a call from Newt. Well, I can tell you that I listened to only about 5 seconds before hanging up.
Kamchak
December 22nd, 2011
4:31 pm
Top House Republicans have tentatively bowed to political pressure and agreed to extend the payroll tax cut for two months, as the Senate and President Obama have urged in exchange for Senate leaders agreeing to appoint a conference committee to negotiate a full year tax cut after Jan. 1, according to Democratic and Republican Senate sources.
Yep, somebody blinked.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 22nd, 2011
4:31 pm
The Senate effectively has a veto because they can filibuster the bill; the President has an actual veto and can reject the bill and it does not become law unless that House and Senate override his veto.
Looks like someone didn’t fall asleep in Civics class. Woo hoo!
Talking Head
December 22nd, 2011
4:32 pm
So what I’ve gathered is that Obama wants everyone to be able to have that $40 per paycheck (biweekly) for 2 months, and the House GOP wants everyone to have that $40 per paycheck (biweekly) for a year. Why doesn’t Obama and the Dems want that kind of savings for the middle class for the whole year? Why for only 2 months?
Thulsa Doom
December 22nd, 2011
4:36 pm
You know someone thinks like a child when they proclaim for the second time today that “someone blinked” on the other side.
Jackie
December 22nd, 2011
4:38 pm
@Talking
I don’t think you have grasped the full content of the proposal by the Administration and the vote of the Senate.
There was a total of 89 votes in the Senate (39 Repub, 50 Dem) to vote for the extension until they return from holiday recess.
pogo
December 22nd, 2011
4:38 pm
All of this liberal bluster about a lousy 40 bucks per month. Come back when you have something real. “Average” American famillies, as described by Obama who would not have a “pizza night” have I-phones, I-Pads and 52 inch TV’s. And those things are so very, very necessary, aren’t they? Obama’s little display on the pizza deal may come back to haunt him. Nobody cares about a lousy pizza. People care about jobs and security both of which he has done anything about. I wouldn’t take too much credit from this fiasco if I were you liberals. You are running out of Christmas’s to create these false crises. In fact, this could very well be your very last one.
Talking Head
December 22nd, 2011
4:38 pm
Jackie,
“Spending and budgets originate in the House and the Senate either approves or agrees to the proposals with the President signing that piece of legislation into law.
The Senate effectively has a veto because they can filibuster the bill”
Interesting observation. So if the Senate only has a veto power over the house bills then why did the Senate change the House’s bill from 1 year to a 2 month extention? That’s not approving, agreeing, or vetoing the bill. Oh and by the way, what you are trying to explain to me (which you’re not doing a very good job) is not a ‘democratic republic’ but a ‘constitutional republic.’
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_republic
Midori
December 22nd, 2011
4:41 pm
All of this liberal bluster about a lousy 40 bucks per month.
Spoke to several friends today who really can’t do without that “lousy” $40 per month.
That post of yours is beyond disgusting.
Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)
December 22nd, 2011
4:45 pm
With the control the so-called conservatives have over economic policies, if they don’t have the economy over a barrel who does?
Well, I don’t feel over a barrel but what with this Tax Increase coming next month, I sure feel like I’ve been Sanduskyed.
RB from Gwinnett
December 22nd, 2011
4:46 pm
Question…. Why were the Bush tax cuts bad and in need of being reversed, but the Obama payroll tax cut is good and must be kept? We’re not in any better shape than we were last week when nobody cared about this tax issue and were whining about the Bush cut and the need for more revenue. What gives?
Soothsayer
December 22nd, 2011
4:46 pm
“All of this liberal bluster about a lousy 40 bucks per month.”
Why, that wouldn’t hardly make the needle on my Excursion move!
Olympic Snow
December 22nd, 2011
4:47 pm
You Republican bloggers can quit with the pretense over the claim to just want a 12-month extension to the payroll tax cut now. The House Republicans blinked.
jewcowboy
December 22nd, 2011
4:47 pm
Thulsa Doom,
“You know someone thinks like a child when they proclaim for the second time today that “someone blinked” on the other side.”
Even Ophthalmologists?
Jm
December 22nd, 2011
4:48 pm
Jackie 4:10
To use the most recent example
Conservatives are trying to permit the XL job creation over democrat objection
Jackie you are clearly blind to the truth so I won’t bother pointing it out to you beyond this
Thulsa Doom
December 22nd, 2011
4:49 pm
Spoke to several friends today who really can’t do without that “lousy” $40 per month- Midori
Yep. Midori just happened to have several conversations today with several friends about whether they really can or can’t do without that “lousy” forty bucks a month that we are just now talking about. Believable? Sure. Uh-huh. Yeah. Whatever you say. But of course you had all these conversations today with friends about that $40 and whether or not they could do without it.
getalife
December 22nd, 2011
4:50 pm
The gop caved and willard flip flops everyday.
Jm
December 22nd, 2011
4:51 pm
Here’s the payroll tax issue core
Democrats just wan to pass it and add to the deficit
Republicans want to cut spending
Welcome to the Occupation
December 22nd, 2011
4:52 pm
Jm: “Conservatives are trying to permit the XL job creation over democrat objection”
The XL project is trivial in terms of new jobs, didn’t you hear?
Thulsa Doom
December 22nd, 2011
4:52 pm
Midori,
I think you had one too many beers with keep and kam down at the clown cafe when you came back and told that whopper.
Kamchak
December 22nd, 2011
4:53 pm
Midori,
I think you had one too many beers with keep and kam…
If only!
Jackie
December 22nd, 2011
4:54 pm
@Talking
Do you believe a change is a veto?
If yes, the Senate voted to change the House bill, therefore, it has to go to conference, ostensibly a veto
Steve - USA
December 22nd, 2011
4:55 pm
Bad news for Michelle in Hawaii, the word is she was living like the 1% without Barack around.
TaxPayer
December 22nd, 2011
4:56 pm
Some of those Tea Party people are not very nice.
Midori
December 22nd, 2011
4:56 pm
Kammy –
http://blog.omy.sg/kysean/files/2008/09/icon-kiss.gif