In Iraq, the old ways of doing things may be reasserting themselves
Iraqi security personnel arrive at the scene of a massive car bombing in downtown Baghdad. (AP photo)
If you haven’t been following events in Iraq recently, here’s an update:
Iraqi Vice President Tariq al-Hashimi, the most prominent Sunni in government, has been accused of using his security entourage as a hit squad. Members of his security squad have confessed, but al-Hashimi claims that the confessions were obtained through torture, which is certainly plausible.
Al-Hashimi has fled to the Kurdish area of Iraq to avoid arrest. Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has demanded that the Kurds surrender al-Hashimi, warning “there will be problems” if he is not handed over. He has also threatened to disband the governing coalition, creating a serious political crisis.
And now this, as reported in The Washington Post:
BAGHDAD — More than a dozen explosions in Baghdad over a two-hour period Thursday morning killed at least 63 people–the first major violence in Iraq since the U.S. completed its troop pullout last week and a political crisis broke out.
At least 185 people were reported injured in the bombings, said officials at the Ministry of Interior, who were speaking on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.
The coordinated wave of attacks began around 6:30 a.m. local time (10:30 p.m. Wednesday in Washington). Witnesses said that all main roads and many government offices in the Iraqi capital remained closed for hours after.
I can’t say any of this is a surprise. While U.S. troops hadn’t been involved in security efforts in Iraq for more than a year, it’s hard to argue that it’s mere coincidence that this crisis has developed so shortly after their departure from the country. We’re still deeply involved in Iraqi affairs — CIA Director David Petraeus is in the country now, meeting with Iraqi leaders — but the country is clearly under their control, not ours. They will determine its fate.
We were there for almost nine years. If U.S. troops had remained for another five years, they might have been able to prevent this current crisis — for another five years. Sooner or later, though, a time was going to come in which the Iraqis would have to decide what kind of country they wanted, and by what means, if any, it was going to be held together.
That time may be now, and even if they make it through this crisis, others are inevitable. The notion that we could go in and remake another society — install new expectations, mindsets, cultural norms and democratic ideologies, as if we were installing a new engine in a car — has been the glaring flaw in our Iraq strategy from the very beginning. There are still grounds for hope of at least some success long-term, but there’s an equal if not better chance that the Iraqis will revert to their old ways of doing things.
– Jay Bookman
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
819 comments Add your comment
Peter
December 22nd, 2011
10:08 am
Bill Orvis White… you avoided all my question didn’t you ?
Who is the Investment befitting ?
What was the way George Bush was paying for the Wars ?
You are not Christian……Please.
The $600 stimulus money ….. Bush gave away to have folks like him ?
That dumb idea that added to the deficit ?
Please I make too much money to even think abut an amount that small.
Paul
December 22nd, 2011
10:08 am
Hi Scout
Feeling better?
“What do you think would happen within the year if the 2nd Infantry Division was pulled from South Korea ?”
Not much, other than we’d save a bunch of bucks and if the S Koreans felt it was a problem, they’d plus up their forces near the border and still rely on America’s nuclear umbrella.
N Korea would bluster and threaten and hold exercises and make all kinds of noise, but the bottom line is there is no way the ruling military class and a few ‘civilian’ leaders are going to jeopardize their cushy lifestyle. They’ll play up the external threat and continue to live the high life while their people are brutalized.
too little time
December 22nd, 2011
10:09 am
And out of the blue, Jay Bookman FINALLY (after weeks of trivial partisan bashing) comes up with this gem:
I think you’re making the left-wing version of the right-wing mistake about exaggerating what we can accomplish in other countries. In your case, you’re attributing Iraq’s problems to things the United States has done, instead of giving the Iraqis credit or blame for it. Both are examples of cultural arrogance on our part.
Bingo. These issues are as old as Iraq itself. It was foolish to believe that we could affect change (other than regime change) in the first place. The Balkanization of Iraq has begun. The Shia/Sunni/Kurd factions (an their underlying tribes) have been waiting for the U.S. to leave in order to begin their own struggle for power. Had the U.S. not intervened, the Sunni would have continued their brutal repression of the other groups (and the resulting deaths would almost certainly have been equal to anything caused by the war, but would have never been reported). The Arab penchant for war appears insatiable, pausing only when a dictator, backed by military, can enforce order by suppression of the mob.
Adam
December 22nd, 2011
10:11 am
Obama brought pizza to the White House? I guess he’s not so bummed that he can’t go to Hawaii after all! Sorry cons! You didn’t ruin his vacation, you GAVE him one – from his wife!
Thomas
December 22nd, 2011
10:12 am
Can’t fight with one arm behind your back. Can’t be one toe in.
Either declare war and have a Western takeover or let them sort it out.
I seem to recall a rather nasty fight this country called the Civi War.
Bud
December 22nd, 2011
10:12 am
early withdrawal=catholic birth control
Aquagirl
December 22nd, 2011
10:15 am
You do realize that we were being asked to leave, don’t you?
A REAL man doesn’t pay attention to what those Brown people want, he knows what’s best for them. And if necessary he’ll jam it down their throats via big phallic missile.
Get with the manly-man program, Welcome. You need some testosterone injections, I’m sure Bill Orvis can arrange that.
0311/1811
December 22nd, 2011
10:15 am
Adam:
Don’t do that. I spit my coffee out !
godless heathen
December 22nd, 2011
10:16 am
“Obama brought pizza to the White House? I guess he’s not so bummed that he can’t go to Hawaii after all! Sorry cons! You didn’t ruin his vacation, you GAVE him one – from his wife!”
It’s not hard to see how the POTUS job would put a strain on a marriage. It’s too bad that things are going the way they are and I feel bad for the children
kayaker 71
December 22nd, 2011
10:16 am
I won’t bother to state the sites where this information is available….. just Google up “Sharia Law in Amerca”, and you will find numerous cases where judges have considered and have decided cases in US courts when Sharia laws were taken into account in the decision. As Bob Becktel points out on one of these sites, Talmudic laws have also been used when deciding cases where Jews were involved. I think that the big fear is that Sharia law is so demonic in many ways that the Iraqi people who came to this country to get away from that nonsense might encounter it in our courts when involved in a court action. Our laws derive from Old English laws which have been adapted to our country based on precedent ….. much more fair. There is no place in the Constitution that I have been able to find, where Sharia law has a place in our courts.
Adam
December 22nd, 2011
10:16 am
Scout:
St Simons - we're on Island time
December 22nd, 2011
10:16 am
Zero.Contract.Oil.with.Bases.to.Protect.It.
Another installment of “Privatize the Profits Socialize the Cost”
brought to you by your friends at Big Oil, Halliburton, Blackwater, Satan.
Shrill Orifice Tripe
December 22nd, 2011
10:17 am
That community organizer-in-chief Oblama Hussein has ruined the Judeo-Christian utopia that my hero, honorable George W. Bush, worked so hard to build. Prior to 2009, when that Hussein Kenyan Socialist Mooslum took, this righteous country was in perfecdt in all ways. But want O-blah-blah took over, he confiscated all our guns, outlawed religion, and even tried to make sure all Americans have healthcare. Barry Hussein even made constitutional amendments to separate church and state, and allow gay marriage! And then he also cut-and-ran in Iraq. If my hero George Bush was still in charge, we would be in Iraq and keeping those Moooslums under control, with no fighting at all.
Peace to all around the world, AMEN.
Shrill
0311/1811
December 22nd, 2011
10:18 am
Paul:
Agree to disagree.
The North Koreans would do just what the North Vietnamese did when we left. After the appropriate amount of time they would invade ……………. and you can forget the nukes just like McArthur had to.
Off to do some last minute shopping. Everyone be nice.
"Hussein" Kamchak ~ Sharia Law is just a code word for "fear" -- the monster under your bed
December 22nd, 2011
10:18 am
These issues are as old as Iraq itself. It was foolish to believe that we could affect change (other than regime change) in the first place.
But…but…but…Karl Rove told us that, “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
Normal
December 22nd, 2011
10:18 am
Bill Orvis White, American Taliban…got turban?
_________________________________
RB,
Voter fraud in small amounts are to be expected, people being people, but since they are being punished, well they deserve it.
But I notice no outrage from you over certain State Governors suppressing voter registration in order to stack the deck in their (GOP) favor. Is this not voter fraud? The word “Hypocrite” seems to apply here…jus’ sayin’.
Bill Orvis White
December 22nd, 2011
10:20 am
@Welcome to the Occupation
A real he-man/leader in the mold of Speaker Boehner would have without -have stood up to the jihadists and would have stayed dedicated to rooted out evil wherever it may exist. Why don’t you naive leftists ever get it? We are engaged in a War on Terror, a war that will be with us for at least another 50 years or perhaps, ever! We need a strong defense that will protect us from evildoers.
Merry Christmas/Amen,
Bill
Rightwing Troll
December 22nd, 2011
10:20 am
I SERIOUSLY doubt sharia law has EVER been used as any sort of legal instrument or precedent in a US court of law.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 22nd, 2011
10:21 am
Shrill one: “But want O-blah-blah took over, he confiscated all our guns, outlawed religion, and even tried to make sure all Americans have healthcare”
And don’t forget, he sent out Christmas Cards from the White House with no baby Jesus in them!! The outrage. (Lord knows the ones sent out by the Bushes and Reagans were loaded down with religious imagery.)
Peter
December 22nd, 2011
10:22 am
Bill Orvis White…
Please answer the questions I posed to you. Thank you and all that phony Amen stuff you bring.
josef
December 22nd, 2011
10:22 am
So, what did we think was going to happen? No surprises here. And for those blaming Bush and Obama, etc. This problem goes back to the Treaty of Lausanne.
If I were an Iraqi Christian I’d be heading north to Kurdistan post haste. And if we in the US have any moral compass left, we’ll tak a stand at the 35th parallel and protect those who have indeed cast their lot with the concepts of a free, open and tolerant society. Let the Shia and Sunni slug it out, if that’s what their leaders want. Iran? Turkey? Syria? Maybe they DO need to be worried about a free and independent Kurdish state.
carlosgvv
December 22nd, 2011
9:07 am
Granny – 8:52
“So God has decided to give grace to the American people but not to Iraq? Do you know how self-serving that sounds?”
You and I are pretty much at arms on the subject in general, but on this I am in agreement with you.
Bill Orvis White
December 22nd, 2011
9:35 am
@Mick
I’m the real thing – over 985 naive secular progressives have been served with my common sense conservatism and defense of Judeo-Christian principles.
And do you walk on water, too. Unmentionable says you might want to check and see that the lake’s still frozen.
And…”a rabbi who must praise himself has a congregation of one.”
But, just in case you are who you claim to be, do us all a favor and bring peace to the world at least for Baby Jesus’ Birthday…
Adam
December 22nd, 2011
10:23 am
(Lord knows the ones sent out by the Bushes and Reagans were loaded down with religious imagery.)
We can’t talk about that because those guys aren’t President anymore
Granny Godzilla
December 22nd, 2011
10:24 am
“A real he-man/leader in the mold of Speaker Boehner”
Holy crap that’s funny.
Adam
December 22nd, 2011
10:24 am
I have never seen the satirical poster Bill Orvis White engage so many in the trolling he’s doing. Vacation, maybe?
Hint to all: He’s not serious.
Shrill Orifice Tripe
December 22nd, 2011
10:24 am
@Welcome to the Occupation
Don’t you get in WttO? What we need is a true leader like Boehner. Once those evil doer Mooslum terrorists see Boehner cry, they are going to run the other way! He will stand up to those jihadists, and take out those terrorists. The community-organizer-in-chief hasn’t stopped a single terrorist! In fact, I heard that Osama bin Laden is hanging out with Mooochelle in Hawaii for Christmas this very day! We need leaders that will take out the terrorists, not coddle them in paradise!
Amen and Peace on Earth -
Shrill
"Hussein" Kamchak ~ Sharia Law is just a code word for "fear" -- the monster under your bed
December 22nd, 2011
10:26 am
Hint to all: He’s not serious.
Yeah, I used to think that too.
Granny Godzilla
December 22nd, 2011
10:27 am
Adam
Google his name. He has his own web site.
It’s a hoot.
Soothsayer
December 22nd, 2011
10:28 am
Oh, what the heck! How about a little Christmas music?
godless heathen
December 22nd, 2011
10:30 am
“So God has decided to give grace to the American people but not to Iraq? Do you know how self-serving that sounds?”
That’s what God does when he’s not helping athletes catch passes and win football games.
AmVet - A Happy KwanzChristmakkuh to al!
December 22nd, 2011
10:31 am
RB and other Bushbots,
If I was you, I too would be running at full speed, with my tail between my legs, to another topic.
Tragically there is nothing we can do for the young men and women who were killed needlessly, because the biggest screw ups in modern American history wanted to play toy soldiers. Nor for the tens of thousands of other American families who, rather than got a flag-covered casket, got maimed children and parents back.
All because little men by the hundreds, exactly like that b@st@rd Dick Cheney, who “had priorities other than military service” were empowered by you damn fools even thought the never-served dolts botched every single step of that invasion and occupation.
And given the almost total dearth of moral courage, is it any wonder that those cowards in Washington, as well as the bootlickers who elected them, lied and screamed endlessly at the tops of their lungs to get all those Americans KIA’d to assuage their vicarious bloodlust and addiction to violence?
So here’s to hoping there is a special place for you in that mythological locale of yours where snowballs stand no chance.
Mission Accomplished.
Support the Troops.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 22nd, 2011
10:33 am
Adam: “Hint to all: He’s not serious.”
So I can go back to calling him “Bill Onion White” ?
Normal
December 22nd, 2011
10:33 am
godless heathen
December 22nd, 2011
10:30 am
Well said!
josef
December 22nd, 2011
10:34 am
Granny
Did as you suggested…googled him…
Bill:
Okay, you got me! The Duk-sha-nee needs to take some lessons from you! Hattiestown, eh?
Aquagirl
December 22nd, 2011
10:35 am
Hint to all: He’s not serious.
His tweets are more obvious.
St Simons - we're on Island time
December 22nd, 2011
10:35 am
when I heard about this blast, and the trouble in Egypt, and massacre
in Syria all in the same 2 days, I “sprang from my bed” and reflexively,
without knowing I did it – said
“where’s the al-Jazeera feed so I can get the truth?”
really, this is what it has come to.
RB from Gwinnett
December 22nd, 2011
10:39 am
Paul – “So what’s your solution?. Remain there, as someone else pointed out, until generations pass and the old hatreds fade?”
I think the answer is “long enough for the people to enjoy freedom enough they’re willing to fight for it themselves”. I have no idea how long that is or if it’s even possible there.
BTW, today’s bombing should tell us all it wasn’t necessarily US the terrorists we’re upset about. They want control over those governments and those people. There will be another Saddam there within 3 years.
AmVet - A Happy KwanzChristmakkuh to al!
December 22nd, 2011
10:41 am
Once Boy George’s Clusterf&ck Crusade got going, I prayed that I was wrong. I really did.
I hoped beyond hope that those gutless morons were right and that there was a chance that democracy could be implemented in that shiitehole.
But in my heart, I knew from the very beginning and beyond all doubt, that it was sheer folly to even dare hope for such an outcome.
And sadly, I have no reason to conclude anything other than that I was correct.
All that is left now is my empty pride in knowing that I did what I could to stand up and speak out against these fools.
And to state the obvious – NEVER again can this nation trust our children’s lives with the most craven group to ever occupy a position of power – the neo-cons/Republican Party.
josef
December 22nd, 2011
10:41 am
I’ve got Bill up on the other screen…he’s a riot, folks…seriously…I’m truly impressed and stand in awe of a master!
RB from Gwinnett
December 22nd, 2011
10:44 am
“So you would prevent 1% to 5% voter fraud by cheating millions out of the right to vote?”
Who said anything about denying ANYBODY the right to vote???? WTF are you talking about?
Normal
December 22nd, 2011
10:44 am
Josef,
“I’m truly impressed and stand in awe of a master!”
Yeah, a master of deceit.
St Simons - we're on Island time
December 22nd, 2011
10:45 am
Bill, I wish UGA gave Peabody’s or something for Satire.
They’d name a wing of the building after you.
That’s some awesome stuff.
Innocent Bystander
December 22nd, 2011
10:45 am
Well Jay, it’s your President that campaigned on a promise to bring the soldiers in Iraq home. Hope you’re satisfied with the results.
It is also ironic how the Iraqis complained that we wouldn’t leave and now they’re complaining when we do leave.
kayaker 71
December 22nd, 2011
10:46 am
RB,
Make that a year from now. The Taliban now has a free ticket to come into Iraq and do their bidding. This is just the beginning. Everyone that disagrees with them will suffer the same fate and by fear and intimidation, they will take over this country and it’s oil. This will certainly not make our oil prospective any brighter, especially if Iran has it’s way in the Gulf of Hormuz. Can you say $7.00 gasoline?
Paulo977
December 22nd, 2011
10:47 am
Jay :Sooner or later, though, a time was going to come in which the Iraqis would have to decide what kind of country they wanted, and by what means, if any, it was going to be held together. …..
______________________
If we had left them alone , even with Saddam , there is a chance they would have figured out what they had to do to
achieve more justice for all.After all, there were certain areas of life during Saddam’s regime that had developed signifantly enough to cause the beginnings of some sort of ‘conscientiztion’,as conceptualized by Freire…But of course we took them back , didn’t we?
Butch Cassidy
December 22nd, 2011
10:48 am
kayaker 71 – “Can you say $7.00 gasoline?”
Sweet, less traffic, and I can finally bring the Prius back out of storage.
jimbob
December 22nd, 2011
10:48 am
Jay, you’ve got the policy you wanted. After all, it would be just awful if some Christian ‘fundamentalists’ or Jewish ‘occupiers’ moved in and actually inflicted human rights on people there.
This is the ‘liberal’ objective: Islamist gangster rule.
RB from Gwinnett
December 22nd, 2011
10:48 am
“But I notice no outrage from you over certain State Governors suppressing voter registration ”
What are you talking about?
TaxPayer
December 22nd, 2011
10:48 am
But Bush and the neocons had it all figgered out because they ran 665 simulations on SimEarth and knew exactly how to do the empire building thingie, all the way down to how to pay for it with just the right tax plan. Someone even hacked into the simulator and stole the tax plan and tried to sell it on EBay for $9.99 or something like that.
St Simons - we're on Island time
December 22nd, 2011
10:48 am
I’m putting that on the “for____” line on my alumni check.
“for the Bill Orvis White wing of the Grady School or Peabody Hall”
"Hussein" Kamchak ~ Sharia Law is just a code word for "fear" -- the monster under your bed
December 22nd, 2011
10:49 am
From Bill’s website: If I ever lose Delores, I know that Ann Coulter is out there waiting for me. I’m the real man that she’s looking for.
This goes beyond satire.
Butch Cassidy
December 22nd, 2011
10:49 am
jimbob – “This is the ‘liberal’ objective: Islamist gangster rule.”
GW Bush was a liberal?
Peter
December 22nd, 2011
10:49 am
Here it is folks……… http://billwhitesavesamerica.blogspot.com/
Funny stuff !
Granny Godzilla
December 22nd, 2011
10:50 am
RB
Obviously that which you are ill informed about.
Again.
kayaker 71
December 22nd, 2011
10:51 am
Butch,
How about the Volt?…. if it doesn’t catch fire.
Paul
December 22nd, 2011
10:51 am
RB
“I think the answer is “long enough for the people to enjoy freedom enough they’re willing to fight for it themselves”. I have no idea how long that is or if it’s even possible there. ”
You do realize that’s an open-ended commitment that could have American forces and treasure there for decades?
I appreciate the “if it’s even possible there.” I think we have to do a realistic analysis and make a decision. Which some would say, we’ve done.
BTW – we’re leaving behind about 17,000. “Attached” to the embassy. Many are civilian/military contractors. So much of the work the straight military was doing will still be done.
Granny Godzilla
December 22nd, 2011
10:51 am
a little humor from the Great Orange Satan…
>> A key difference between Barack Obama and the Republican candidates running against him: if one of the bulbs in the president’s head goes out the others stay lit.
>> Still waiting for Joe Biden to fulfill his vice-presidential duties by blowing the cover of a CIA operative out of petty revenge and then shooting a lawyer in the face. Hop to it, man!
jconservative
December 22nd, 2011
10:52 am
Apparently many are ignorant of the fact that President George W Bush negotiated the agreement calling for total withdrawal of all US forces by December 2011.
President Bush started the Iraq invasion on his watch and on his watch signed the agreement stating the date US involvement would end.
Nice neat package all tied up with ribbons.
Anne Coulter
December 22nd, 2011
10:52 am
Mission Accomplished ????????? What mission and at what cost? At least Obama got us 100% out which mcCain swore never to do. We would have dozens of bases there if it was up to thoise brilliant neocons and chickenhawks that got us in this mess. Why do we still have dozens of bases in Germany, Italy , Japan and god nknows where else? Tell Obama to bring em all home and cut the military budget in half!
RG Readmore
December 22nd, 2011
10:54 am
From Bill’s website: If I ever lose Delores, I know that Ann Coulter is out there waiting for me. I’m the real man that she’s looking for.
This goes beyond satire.
Yes, it’s called mental illness.
Truth
December 22nd, 2011
10:54 am
If Iraq is getting worse then it is Obama’s fault since he is President. Isn’t this the logic you used when Mr. Bush was President?
Paul
December 22nd, 2011
10:54 am
Hey Normal!
“master of deceit”
Ummm…. you do realize you’re channeling J Edgar Hoover’s book? I think you’ve gone and caught The Rightwing from Mr. Bill…..
Talking Head
December 22nd, 2011
10:55 am
How many on here who voted for Obama in 08 would vote for Paul (if he was the GOP nominee) in 12?
kayaker 71
December 22nd, 2011
10:55 am
Ann Coulter,
“Why do we still have bases in Japan, Italy and Germany?….. Perhaps it’s because they are not shooting at us.
"Hussein" Kamchak ~ Sharia Law is just a code word for "fear" -- the monster under your bed
December 22nd, 2011
10:55 am
This is the ‘liberal’ objective: Islamist gangster rule.
You wanna know what the real “liberal” objective is?
Lean in real close, so I can whisper it in your ear,
Closer still…
Just a little closer…
We want to make everyone get gay married, then force ‘em to all get abortions.
Granny Godzilla
December 22nd, 2011
10:55 am
hearing the GOP house may go for a 3 month deal….
josef
December 22nd, 2011
10:56 am
Bill Orvis White on repeal of DADT
“None of these traitors knows the life of combat today. The men are close, very close and they don’t want someone asking them about how to decorate the foxholes or any other holes or God-forbid, falling in love with them when they need to think about taking out the jihadists. Do you understand, Senator Collins? You Godless secular tool of Hollyweird’s David Geffen and Ted Danson? ”
Truth
December 22nd, 2011
10:56 am
I thought the Dem’s didn’t like “Tax Cuts” so why not reinstate the 2% savings on the FICA tax?
mmm, mmm, mmm, Barack the Liar Obama - BEND OVER, Here comes the CHANGE!
December 22nd, 2011
10:56 am
What insight. Not a moment to soon. You probably belive there were no WMD. Of couse, you could ask a Kurd that was mustard gassed – that is if you can find one still alive. MERRY CHRISTmas!
Adam
December 22nd, 2011
10:57 am
RB: What are you talking about?
Given how your first post of the day was a Fox News article, I am not surprised that you have NO IDEA what is going on with legislated voter suppression.
Butch Cassidy
December 22nd, 2011
10:57 am
kayaker 71 – “How about the Volt?…. if it doesn’t catch fire.”
I like the volt, but the Prius is still pretty new. I bought it back in 2008 when I was living in Atlanta and gas was running around $4.00-$4.50 a gallon. After I moved to NYC, I mothballed it since I could take the subway everywhere. Wouldn’t mind taking out though, when gas gets pricey, the Prius is awesome!
Steve - USA
December 22nd, 2011
10:58 am
I was against the war but I will say it again:
The American people wanted blood for 9/11 and they got it.
getalife
December 22nd, 2011
10:58 am
Heck of a job w.
Adam
December 22nd, 2011
10:58 am
How many on here who voted for Obama in 08 would vote for Paul (if he was the GOP nominee) in 12?
I won’t, but that’s because I do not agree with him or any libertarian on their views of just how much to pull the government back, and their strange view that the free market solves all problems all on its own.
josef
December 22nd, 2011
11:00 am
Granny
Thanks for turning me on to him…I’m rolling! I mean that fellow has got the shtick downpat and has snookered us all! That takes talent if not genius…I can’t count the times here that he’s sent me into paroxysms of rage! Well, the joke was on me and it was a good one!
TaxPayer
December 22nd, 2011
11:01 am
hearing the GOP house may go for a 3 month deal….
I give them about 11 and 1/2 months, tops.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 22nd, 2011
11:02 am
Steve – USA : “The American people wanted blood for 9/11 and they got it.”
Indeed. And yet, Jay implied above that we here in the West sit in the position of the civilized ones gazing down in horror as Iraq sinks back into some swamp of primitive, barbaric “old ways”. Kind of makes you wonder who really are the primitive ones, don’t it?
"Hussein" Kamchak ~ Sharia Law is just a code word for "fear" -- the monster under your bed
December 22nd, 2011
11:02 am
I mean that fellow has got the shtick downpat and has snookered us all!
You’re only snookered if you think it’s parody.
kayaker 71
December 22nd, 2011
11:02 am
The Taliban is really an effective organization in many ways. Dedicated, goal directed, no time tables, no populus criticizing their objectives. If their opponents get too vocal, take ‘em out. Roadside bombs, suicide teenagers willing to die for some mythical prophet…. this ain’t over, my friends, not by a long shot.
Talking Head
December 22nd, 2011
11:03 am
Is it too late for the 2 month payroll tax extension to even be implemented? I would hate to work in payroll right now.
Butch Cassidy
December 22nd, 2011
11:03 am
mmmm,mmmm,mmm – “Of couse, you could ask a Kurd that was mustard gassed – that is if you can find one still alive.”
You mean the Kurds who were mustard gassed back in 1987-88? Why don’t you bitch to Reagan, I believe he was President at the time. Besides, Mustard Gass isn’r exactly in the same realm as WMD. It’s localized and causes death on a limited scale. But yeah, I absolutely saw the need to invade Iraq 15 years after the Kurds got nailed.
josef
December 22nd, 2011
11:03 am
Peter
He got you, too, eh?
Steve - USA
December 22nd, 2011
11:04 am
I shed a little tear every time I see that commercial that shows the soldier playing with his child’s feet and then you see the soldier doesn’t have any. I admire the charity but it enrages me that we need a charity to help these disabled soldiers.
We need to handle our business and help these wounded Vets.
josef
December 22nd, 2011
11:04 am
Butch
Read up on the Kurdish genocide…
Granny Godzilla
December 22nd, 2011
11:05 am
josef
i agree with kammie
i think BOW is just what he appears to be.
he may be a joke, but i don’t think he’s kidding.
Peter
December 22nd, 2011
11:06 am
This is how delusional Bill White is…from his web page…….
10 years. Lord Almighty, 10 Years. I’m at a laptop at my church watching FOX News covering the September the 11th ceremonies. My Lord, Delores, 10 years. 10 years since Saddam Hussein with the help of Usama bin Laden struck on our soil.
YUP he believes Saddam and Bin Laden were working together.
Is there anythong more to say ?
Butch Cassidy
December 22nd, 2011
11:06 am
Steve – USA “We need to handle our business and help these wounded Vets.”
Not if your a member of the GOP. These soldiers need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, be self reliant and take responsibility for their “bad choices”. Hell, I bet they fall into that 47% that don’t pay taxes.
getalife
December 22nd, 2011
11:06 am
Just another dark day in con la la land.
Peter
December 22nd, 2011
11:07 am
Who josef ? What are you referring too ?
Butch Cassidy
December 22nd, 2011
11:08 am
Josef – Read up on the Kurdish genocide…”
You mean this?
The Halabja poison gas attack (Kurdish: Kîmyabarana Helebce), also known as Halabja massacre or Bloody Friday,[1] was a genocidal massacre against the Kurdish people that took place on March 16, 1988, during the closing days of the Iran–Iraq War, when chemical weapons were used by the Iraqi government forces in the Kurdish town of Halabja in Iraqi Kurdistan.
Finn McCool
December 22nd, 2011
11:10 am
Wow, Bill White is seriously delusional.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 22nd, 2011
11:14 am
Can’t wait to hear what that vampire Dick Cheney will have to say about the explosions when he makes his rounds.
AmVet - Just say no to the War Pigs.
December 22nd, 2011
11:15 am
Wild Bill Hitler’s alter-ego?
I can’t believe that anyone here reads his drivel.
And to belabor my earlier point, had any of the armchair warriors like Bill O’Reilly, Saxby Chambliss and the enormous number of other quasi-draft dodging candyasses with pom poms, served this nation in time of war, I suspect that they would have not been so damn eager to get other people’s kids killed so readily.
And all of it for such transparent and self-serving reasons.
St Simons - we're on Island time
December 22nd, 2011
11:15 am
TH – “too late for the 2 mo payroll tax extension to be implemented?”
We are beginning pre-Closing under the assumption that the Republics
are but a soon-to-be-extinct dingleberry on the bottom of the workings
of American business, and that it will be extended. Everyone I know in
the biz is doing the same thing.
Republicans, the pahhty of business, hahahahaha
The Leg Lamp is a “major award”….
December 22nd, 2011
11:16 am
Hmm, let me be an equal opportunity finger pointer.
First, we should have never invaded Iraq. Afghanistan, yes, Iraq, no. This has been my position from the get-go.
Second, we should have never pulled our troops from Iraq at this juncture. Their government is still not fully seated and a purelyh political decision to withdraw is beyond comprehension.
Finally, we accomplished just what in Iraq?
josef
December 22nd, 2011
11:17 am
Butch
Not just that…that’s just one of many such attacks on the Kurds…I’m not passing judgment but it was not a limited thing…I wasn’t being critical…
Peter
Your earlier (like my) jump on him…I thought your “funny stuff” was a compliment…you aren’t STILL taking him seriously are you?
GG, KAM
Oh, go ahead and admitit…he’s got your (our?) number and played us like a harp…yeah, read that DADT one I quoted and sure enough sounds real and then there’s that little “G-d forbid fall in love…”
Peter
December 22nd, 2011
11:18 am
I have said it in the past, and believe it today…the lemmings believe all Dick Cheney says……and said.
Bill White’s web site is proof the extreme right still believe Saddam and Bin Laden were working together on 911.
Amazing stuff…. kind of like the skin heads, and KKK……all extremists and all dangerous to America !
Butch Cassidy
December 22nd, 2011
11:18 am
AmVet – “I suspect that they would have not been so damn eager to get other people’s kids killed so readily.”
Sadly, the result would more than likely have been the same since it affects “other peoples kids”. It’s been my experience, (and certainly exhibeted on these boards) that the majority of people don’t really give a crap unless it affects them personally.
A dad
December 22nd, 2011
11:19 am
As a conservative, veteran, Tea Partier (re limited gov’t), all I can say is none of will ever actually know the truth about WMD’s in Iraq, etc. And save the links and responses because as we all know, there are articles, links etc that “irrefutably” point to both sides of the question. For me, unless Bush, Cheney and Rummie come out and say what was what, none of us will ever truly know. But on the the topic.
Despite all the scraifice by the U.S. – lives, money, etc., did anyone really beleive that a culture that is essentially unchanged since 14th and 15th century Sultanates would ever change? I mean, we are still doing the black-and-white thing after only a couple centuries. Can’t imagine how it would be if that went back 6-800 years. And what a culture. Blowing up your enemies women and children is not only acceptable, but it’s a ticket to heaven. I say the he!! with Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan, but if they so much as blink towards the U.S., we make em glow in the dark and end the problem once and for all. Happy holidays.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 22nd, 2011
11:20 am
And by the way, Jay, while we’re on the topic of false victories, how about that other big false victory that’s lurking out there, namely the apparent uptick in the economy?
Experts See a False Dawn in Economy’s Recent Gains
In recent weeks, a broad range of data have beaten analysts’ expectations, but forecasters say the uptick is likely temporary and that growth will slow in the first half of 2012.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/22/business/signs-point-to-economys-rise-but-experts-see-a-false-dawn.html?hp
Granny Godzilla
December 22nd, 2011
11:20 am
josef
gotta agree to disagree
i think he’s a joke, but i don’t think he’s kidding.