GOP candidates tout war-happy, shoot-first approach
I didn’t watch all of last night’s GOP debate, but I did see an extended section on foreign policy. It was a horror show in which the candidates competed to show their disdain for and disinterest in the rest of the world, as well as their avid eagerness to use military power to solve problems. They seemed to think that those two traits ought to define America’s approach to the rest of the world, and the audience loved them for it.
Ron Paul was the only one who demonstrated a lick of sense or restraint.
Rick Perry, for example, repeated a refrain from the previous debate by insisting that President Obama had just two options after a U.S. spy plane drone was brought down over Iran and captured: Go into Iran and take it back, or or send missiles to destroy it on the ground, as if the Iranians have it sitting out on some airfield with red arrows helpfully pointing toward it.
The foolishness of that approach is self-evident, but I expect no better from the half-informed cowboy governor. I did expect better from Mitt Romney, but instead what we got was as bad or worse. Moderator Bret Baier noted that Romney had earlier called Obama’s response to the drone capture “extraordinarily weak and timid,” and asked Romney whether this weakness had invited war.
For those who can’t watch the video, here’s how it went:
“Absolutely. Does timidity and weakness invite aggression on the part of other people? Absolutely. A strong America is the best ally peace has ever known. This is a president that …. a spy drone downed over Iran and he says ‘pretty please?’” Foreign policy based on `pretty please?’ You have to be kidding.”
Romney, it turns out, is also in the “destroy it or go get it” camp, as if it were possible for the U.S. military to put together a crash rescue mission into the heart of Iran and fly the drone out of there. It’s a scenario that would be ridiculous in a Hollywood movie.
In addition, let’s also note that President Obama did not ask Osama bin Laden, “May I kill you, pretty please?” Nor has he taken that approach with the scores of other members of al Qaida and Taliban leadership targeted in Pakistan or Yemen. Romney’s charge that Obama has been weak or timid in his use of force when necessary is ridiculous on its face.
In this particular instance, our spy drone was violating Iranian airspace. Don’t get me wrong — I’m glad we’re keeping a close eye on things there. But its presence in violation of international law doesn’t exactly put us in a strong position to be outraged. Sending troops to retrieve it or trying to destroy it would escalate the matter into a major confrontation, with war a likely outcome. The price of oil would likely double or triple, the economy would go into a tailspin and the Middle East would erupt. Yet every candidate up there — again with the sane exception of Ron Paul — seemed to think that would be just grand.
Let’s review how a similar but much more important situation played out:
In April of 2001, a U.S. spy plane with 24 American military personnel aboard was forced down on Chinese soil after a collision with a Chinese jet. The Chinese refused to release either the plane or the personnel. The 24 Americans were held and interrogated for 10 days. We got the plane back three months later, in parts, after it had been disassembled and studied by the Chinese.
The plane’s release came only after we paid “restitution” to the Chinese for feeding and housing our personnel and for its expenses in dismantling our plane. We also sent a letter to the Chinese foreign minister, expressing American sorrow at the death of a Chinese pilot in the incident and for the fact that “the entering of China’s airspace and the landing did not have verbal clearance.” President Bush even sent a condolence letter to the widow of the dead Chinese pilot.
By the standards expressed on that Iowa stage last night, President Bush’s handling of that affair went well beyond “pretty please” or “extraordinarily weak or timid.” It was downright craven, and heaven knows how the macho chest-beaters on the right would respond if the same thing occurred under Obama. Yet a decade later, the Hainan Island incident remains just that, an incident that is largely forgotten.
Yes, the Republican candidates were playing to an audience last night. They were pandering to its worst instincts. But it is a sad state of affairs when would-be leaders can’t or won’t engage voters in at least a somewhat adult conversation about such matters. I suspect audiences in other countries were even more appalled by the nonsense they heard last night.
– Jay Bookman
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358 comments Add your comment
Guy Incognito
December 16th, 2011
8:34 am
“I suspect audiences in other countries were even more appalled by the nonsense they heard last night.”
The Zambians were outraged I tells ya
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 16th, 2011
8:36 am
Bush was an apologist!
carlosgvv
December 16th, 2011
8:37 am
Most sensible people in America realize we are not God’s gift to the world. It is not our job to be the world’s police force, charging into countries whose Govt’s we don’t like with intent to change them. Also, we are not so made out of money that we can afford all these military ventures. Unfortunately, Republican Tea Party voters feel otherwise and, in response, Romney, Perry and others indulge them by spouting nonsense about our “timidity and weakness” This kind of thinking got us into Iraq and Afghanistan and, if Perry, Romney, Gingrich or Bachmann are elected, will propel us into more costly military adventures. So, the question is – are there enough sensible voters in American to ensure we don’t get one of these looneys for President?
Guy Incognito
December 16th, 2011
8:38 am
In honor of the FAMU/SWD (DeKalb Co) investigation, here’s my offering for FNTM…..a catchy tune from the SWD Drumline:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQTuYo6HmiQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
It really is catchy………..in a completely disrespectful to women kind of way
Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!
BlahBlahBlah
December 16th, 2011
8:39 am
I hope Ron Paul runs as an independent in 2012. Obama/Romney/Gingrich are all pathetic.
vahiguy
December 16th, 2011
8:39 am
“Ron Paul was the only one who demonstrated a lick of sense or restraint.”
It’s scary ’cause it’s true.
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
8:41 am
But…but…but that drone is fake! Fake I tell you!
ty webb
December 16th, 2011
8:41 am
so Bush wasn’t a “war mongering cowboy”…another “meme” crushed here at Bookman’s place.
bleary
December 16th, 2011
8:42 am
Jay, your comparison of the drone situation to the US spy plane capture by the Chinese during the Bush administration is a good one. Too bad more people don’t view situations like this in the larger context of history.
Jay
December 16th, 2011
8:44 am
“The Zambians were outraged I tells ya.”
I hear the Uzbeki-beki-beki-beki-beki-stanis were REALLY put out.
stands for decibels
December 16th, 2011
8:44 am
Mitt is an ass.
USMC
December 16th, 2011
8:45 am
“GOP candidates tout war-happy, shoot-first approach”–Jay Bookman
Only the weakminded, like Jay, who are trained to think and speak this way would spout such ridiculous nonsense and DISHONESTLY portray the headline.
Jay is still mad at Newt for failing him in History 101 at Kennesaw State back in the 1990’s.
Jay Bookman is full of Bluster!
Jm
December 16th, 2011
8:46 am
Romney’s right. Peace through strength.
Mick 8:10 true to form. Bring the hate. You hit the ball squarely.
Normal
December 16th, 2011
8:46 am
This what happens when our “Leaders” had “Other Priorities” instead of military service. Having never seen the “Beast” of war, they probably look at it as playing a video game.
ByteMe
December 16th, 2011
8:46 am
so Bush wasn’t a “war mongering cowboy”…
that was April 2001, ty, before he grew a twisted pair of “Cheneys”.
ty webb
December 16th, 2011
8:46 am
I think this is one of those instances where you throw a little red meat out to the audience, and then if you’re elected, you pray like hell that nothing like this comes up.
Jay
December 16th, 2011
8:47 am
So USMC, your approach to the drone problem would be …?
Normal
December 16th, 2011
8:48 am
Let the GOP send their sons and daughters this time. Or stand themselves. Let’s talk war then.
—————————-
Actually, this is probably their “Jobs Plan”.
Jm
December 16th, 2011
8:48 am
Hainan was embarrassing
Finn McCool
December 16th, 2011
8:48 am
Play to the base.
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
8:49 am
“But it is a sad state of affairs when would-be leaders can’t or won’t engage voters in at least a somewhat adult conversation about such matters.”
That’s how partisan politics go…sad, I agree.
Jm
December 16th, 2011
8:50 am
“mitt is an ass”
The republican macot is an elephant silly. Democrats are the asses. Get your politics straight.
Adam
December 16th, 2011
8:51 am
This is my shock and awe face
(For me, saying this never gets old)
Mick
December 16th, 2011
8:51 am
The republican field has learned nothing from this past decade of lost blood and treasure. Ron paul was truly the only sensible man on that stage concerning foreign policy.
jm
Yeah right mr. deficit reduction day in and day out. Romney wants to increase military spending? I thought we were broke?????
godless heathen
December 16th, 2011
8:52 am
Jay, you need to correct your post above. There was no drone brought down over Iran. They don’t have one, never happened, according to a frequent blogger here.
Jm
December 16th, 2011
8:53 am
This is silly. If drone could have been located, drop small ordinance on it assuming tue technology was seriously worth protecting.
If the drone was not locatable, well then you’re out of luck.
Next issue.
Normal
December 16th, 2011
8:54 am
As to that drone thing, get real. We won’t get it back. The Irani’s won’t be able to use it. If it hasn’t happened already the Manufacturers will sell them to other countries because the Almighty Dollar is king and corporations will not even consider national security when there is a profit to be made. The Iranian Drone Massacre is laughable and only good for trying to score political points. Get real, people.
Jay
December 16th, 2011
8:55 am
Let’s put it out there: Those who defend this kind of talk, do you really believe we ought to assemble a task force to go into Iran and retrieve that drone by force?
Or is this all just macho bluster and posturing with no intent to back it up?
ty webb
December 16th, 2011
8:56 am
The drone was “lost” on purpose…We infected it with herpes, and we’ll soon pass Valtrex sanctions on Iran…That’ll show’em.
Adam
December 16th, 2011
8:57 am
Bumper Sticker: “Mitt Romney: He’s been consistent since he changed his mind.”
Granny Godzilla
December 16th, 2011
8:59 am
Yippee ki yay!
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 16th, 2011
9:00 am
Adam, you can also try: New Romney; With 50% more consistency!
Jm
December 16th, 2011
9:00 am
Mick
I’m for less military spending
All budget forecasts by the military and CBO anticipate less future military spending
Citizen of the World
December 16th, 2011
9:01 am
On the eve of bringing our troops home from Iraq, these Republican candidates for Commander in Chief talk big and bad about using military force to embroil us in yet another conflict.
Maybe they only calculate the cost of war in what we’re robbing from our grandchildren to pay, and not in lives lost or forever altered — the dead, the wounded, the maimed and disfigured, the mentally and physically disabled — here at home and in the war zone. Why would anyone, especially anyone with a child or grandchild, ever vote for one of these shortsighted, impulsive cowboys?
Who was it said speak softly and carry a big stick? Teddy Roosevelt, I think. Well, we have a big stick, but we don’t want to use it because the cost is too great. Unfortunately, when you don’t speak softly, you’re more likely to have to use it.
Granny Godzilla
December 16th, 2011
9:02 am
All the brave little Buckaroos….
lovelyliz
December 16th, 2011
9:02 am
This veteran asks doesn’t somebody have to keep the tax-payer funded gravy train rolling for those politically connected, private defense contractors?
ty webb
December 16th, 2011
9:03 am
Jay,
it was pretty much bluster. President Obama, while being truthful, in answering the question with(to paraphrase)”we’ve asked for it back”, opened himself up for criticism from the “Right”. He probably should have been a little more vague in his answer…that being said, there’s not much we can do about it, and the GOP candidates know that…It’s all politics.
Jm
December 16th, 2011
9:03 am
Jay 8:55 shadow boxing?
No one so far is defending talk of sending in a force.
Ayn Rant
December 16th, 2011
9:03 am
We’re finally ending the war in Iraq. That war was a massive strategic blunder based on lies and ignorance, mostly Republican. The victor is Iran. The new “democratic” Shiite Iraq is a conduit for Iranian arms and influence flowing south to destabilize the Arab countries and Israel.
The Republican candidates think that, in view of our nation-building successes in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan, we should now initiate a war with Iran over our downed spy drone.
The Republican candidates are as naive about foreign affairs as they are blind to domestic needs. A Republican administration after the 2012 elections would complete the transformation of the US to a failing economic power with big rockets and a predilection for blundering and stumbling.
(ir)Rational
December 16th, 2011
9:03 am
Adam – I like that. That is a great slogan. You get them printed, and I’ll put one on my car.
Normal – Believe it or not, they won’t be sold over seas unless the government allows them to be. Certain technologies we allow foreigners to come in and work with us on and others we keep all to ourselves. Any wonders why the F-35 was considered a better investment/more financially sound investment than the F-22 was? I don’t know this for sure, but I’m guessing it had something to do with the number of partners we had working with us on the F-35 as compared to the F-22 where we were building/developing it all ourselves.
AmVet - Make America safe. Deport a neo-con.
December 16th, 2011
9:03 am
The Republican Party of today is nothing less than sickening.
Hypocritical and deadly cowards, almost to a man.
What I call faketriots.
And this example is just one in a long list of them that demonstrates that the well-coiffed empty suit from Massachusetts will say anything to suck up to the morons that predominate that organization at every level, from Washington to Atlanta to Acworth.
And I expected no better from the rest of those gutless armchair warriors and Bush/Cheney ass kissers on that stage who pander to the depraved and violence-addicted in the GOP’s 101st Chairborne.
ONE MORE TIME I will write this; this nation can NEVER again trust these incompetent fools with the lives of our children.
Mary Elizabeth
December 16th, 2011
9:04 am
Gov. Romney is politically astute to say that he wants America to lead the world in the 21st century. But he has the wrong ideas on how America should lead. And he has wrong ideas about what real strength is. Other nations are watching America’s choices. Many world citizens are wiser than some Americans. The world is evolving in its ideas of strength, but Republicans, including Mitt Romney, are stuck in ideas of the past regarding strength. The bully approach is not smart or effective in today’s world, on many levels. “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.” MLK
I will say, again, that President Obama has authentic inner strength; his vision is evolved and he is leading America in the right direction. Elect Gov. Romney as president and you will elect a weak leader, regardless of what he says.
(ir)Rational
December 16th, 2011
9:05 am
Ayn Rant – Not really responding to any other part of your post besides the beginning. So ONLY (well, to use your words mostly) the republicans voted for/made a case for going into Iraq and Afghanistan? And what about Vietnam (since you brought it up), I wasn’t aware the JFK or LBJ were republicans.
Misty Fyed
December 16th, 2011
9:06 am
It’s way too late to militarily retrieve the drone. If there was weakness, it was in not destroying it when we initially lost it.
The pilots on the crew who landed that plane in China should have been tried for treason. They were supposed to destroy our secret stuff and ditch at sea. Instead, they put a bow on it and gave it to the chicoms.
Grasshopper
December 16th, 2011
9:06 am
Let Jimmy Carter assemble a force to get the drone back; he’s good at that sort of thing.
Jay
December 16th, 2011
9:07 am
So if it’s just bluster and macho posturing with nothing to back it up, who is being weak and timid here?
The guy who tells it like it is, or the ones making claims that they know they will never dare back up with action?
Jm
December 16th, 2011
9:07 am
Amvet
Anger management buddy. Anger management…..
Patrick
December 16th, 2011
9:08 am
Not only were the candidates (again, Ron Paul excepted) eager to have some sort of military intervention over the drone issue, they were chomping at the bit to start proactively “bombing Iran” to prevent them from gaining nuclear capability. Over and over again, they kept coming back to this conclusion even though Ron Paul kept pointing out that this was a horrible idea and that any thought of rushing into another war was ridiculous. It was startling that none of the frontrunners seem to have learned anything from the last ten years of war(s).
JV
December 16th, 2011
9:08 am
Ron Paul was also an active duty Air Force officer and flight surgeon and then served in the reserves.
Jm
December 16th, 2011
9:09 am
Reuters headline: Russia says seized radioactive material en route to Iran
Just fyi
n
December 16th, 2011
9:11 am
I wish it was just macho bluster. These folks are brittle, scary personalities. I think they are capable of anything. A Dr. Strangelove scenario is entirely possible with any of them.
Jm
December 16th, 2011
9:11 am
Jay 9:07
You might theoretically be the Ron Paul for democrats. Run. Be super honest. And poll in the high single digits if you’re lucky.
Buy don’t compare being honest on the sidelines to fair play standards on the field.
Newtpewt
December 16th, 2011
9:12 am
If we’re gonna bomb Iran, let’s put all these GOP candidates in a capsule, except Ron Paul, and drop them into Tehran.
(ir)Rational
December 16th, 2011
9:12 am
Jay – Who are we to say it is for sure all bluster? I’m not for the idea personally, although I wouldn’t mind seeing a regime change in Iran, but that is their business not mine, but who are we to say what they would do if faced with the situation? None of us could really know what we would do unless we had all the facts, all the evidence, and the responsibility to actually make the decision. I know many of you here, myself included would like to think you know what you would do when faced with this situation, but since there is a very slim chance that none of us ever will be faced with this situation, where we have to make the decision ourselves, we can only speculate. Obama campaigned on shutting down Gitmo (which was obviously playing to his base), he gets into office and gets more information that obviously made him change his mind. Right now, they’re playing to their base and talking about going in and getting something of high value (but really, how high of value is it? we can’t really know) back that was lost/taken from us. When/if they were elected, and they got into office, they would quite possibly get more information that would cause them to change their minds.
barking frog
December 16th, 2011
9:13 am
Many things said in the heat of a campaign are not meant to
be post election policy statements.
Call it like it is
December 16th, 2011
9:14 am
I will bite Jay, yes I think that we should have done an air strike to take out the drone, but I will also say the time has passed to do it. If this drone is advance as they say, what would have caused more harm the strike to get rid of it, or the knowledge we have now freely given over to these guys? To which China and Russia will soon have. I dont know about you but that scares me more.
I dont wish for war, and I dont believe this would have been an automatic start of one as you do. When Reagan hit Libya, we didnt have war, and when Clinton struck in 94, same thing. Sometimes you do have to carry the big stick. And comparing China to to these guys is silly. Yes we have to handle China with kid gloves, Iran not so much.
Jm
December 16th, 2011
9:14 am
All that said. Sure you can criticize the level of discourse as beneath the minimum standard one would expect for a presidential race.
I seem to recall a boatload of BS from the Obama campaign too.
barking frog
December 16th, 2011
9:14 am
the drone should be forgotten. If you can’t afford to lose it, don’t send it.
Ross Perot
December 16th, 2011
9:16 am
War with Iran is most likely a reality, unless we leave Israel alone with it. Or are we going to sit by and watch Iran build nukes? Or are sanctions going to work…hah. We can’t go to war with China, they might fight back. Plus we owe them too much money.
Not a Neal Boortz Redneck
December 16th, 2011
9:16 am
Newt + John Bolton = ground war in Iran by 2013.
joe
December 16th, 2011
9:16 am
“lick of sense”?? Obama is the only one who doesn’t know how to deal with our foreign adversaries. You don’t beg for a piece of equipment back…you take it. The world looks at Obama as weak, just like most of us here in the USA. We must vote out this clown in 2012.
Granny Godzilla
December 16th, 2011
9:16 am
“Obama campaigned on shutting down Gitmo (which was obviously playing to his base), he gets into office and gets more information that obviously made him change his mind”
Ah, nope.
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
9:17 am
“Many things said in the heat of a campaign are not meant to be post election policy statements.”
As we know by looking back at Obama’s comments with regards to then debt/deficit.
AmVet - Make America safe. Deport a neo-con.
December 16th, 2011
9:17 am
Jm, when it comes to your heroes in Washington getting American kids by the thousands killed and by the tens of thousands horrifically maimed, all needlessly, I say the same thing I do to all of you chickenhawk lovers.
Go to hell. (Is this where I put a smiley face emoticon?)
Well it only took about a half an hour before some Einstein puked up Operation Eagle Claw.
Hang on to that one tight, meat. Ignorance is bliss…
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
9:17 am
“Obama campaigned on shutting down Gitmo (which was obviously playing to his base), he gets into office and gets more information that obviously made him change his mind”
He didn’t change his mind. Congress denied funding I believe.
ty webb
December 16th, 2011
9:18 am
Jay,
actually, Romney didn’t “claim” to “back up” anything…He simply criticized Obama by playing off of the “obama’s weak” meme. He didn’t say how he’d go in or if he’d go in…This just in! Criticizing obama any chance you get plays well at GOP debates.
Granny Godzilla
December 16th, 2011
9:18 am
“you take it”
Ah the traditional GOP diplomatic approach
Paul
December 16th, 2011
9:18 am
Right after one of the foreign policy answers (Newt’s) I turned to Mrs. Paul and said “Testosterone always plays better.” I believe Ron Paul was the only one to not so engage.
“They were pandering to its worst instincts. But it is a sad state of affairs when would-be leaders can’t or won’t engage voters in at least a somewhat adult conversation about such matters.”
If this were a Democratic debate with an American incumbent, would the results have been any different? Particularly amongst Democrats who want to counter a charge they’re ‘weak’?
Regarding the poll: now? No way. As soon as it went down? I understand that officials immediately presented President Obama plans to destroy it, before anything was taken. Then would have been doable.
(ir)Rational
December 16th, 2011
9:19 am
Peadawg – The point remains that he wasn’t able to shut it down. And he hasn’t continued trying. At least not so publicly that I’ve seen. Also, if he couldn’t get funding when his party completely controlled both houses of Congress, that says a lot about him.
JohnnyReb
December 16th, 2011
9:20 am
Jay, you Dove.
There are considerations, for example, where did the drone crash? If in a neighborhood, a missle is not a good idea. The collateral damage and fall out would be bad. However, if collateral damage is not a factor, it is likely a single missle could home on the drone and take it out.
Paul is credible until he starts talking foreign policy. I don’t know why I am surprised you think he was the only rational person on stage. My guess is, he took himself out of possibly second place in the Iowa results.
The Left would have us wait until Iran nukes Israel and/or closes the shipping channel to do anything. When, oh when, will the Left realize you can’t talk radicals into peace. The only thing they understand is strength.
I also disagree on the opinion of the World. The majority of the world wants a strong America.
A dad
December 16th, 2011
9:20 am
First off, Iran is not China (not saying I approved W’s handling of the situation, but it’s comparing apples to watermelons). Second, re Iran, there are already contingency plans in place for what will happen when Iran obtains the ability to make a nuclear weapon. What will happen you ask? Israeal will not hesitate to inititate pre-emptive strikes to destory the facilities, missle bases, and so on. And of course, this will inflame the middle east once again, and draw in just about every other country in the world. My question is if Obama is elected, will he support Israel, or will he kow tow and be symphathetic to Islam? Let’s just call it Armageddon boys and girls.
godless heathen
December 16th, 2011
9:21 am
Drone, what drone? Set ‘em straight getalife.
But if there was one that was spying on Iran, and if it did get captured, I’m surprised it didn’t have self destruct mechanism, but that may have meant more weight than they wanted it to have.
And I don’t think there was anything that could have been done after the loss of the drone (if it had been lost) except we need to try to better in the future with keeping our toys out of enemy hands.
Maybe Sasha was flying it.
TaxPayer
December 16th, 2011
9:21 am
The GOP is always willing, it seems, to use other people’s money and children to fight wars that their backers deem must be fought in order to secure their interests. Fortunately, poor people’s children will be too busy cleaning toilets in Gingrinchville to be called on to fight the GOP’s wars in the future. Republicans will simply have to make more soldiers on their own. I suggest they invest in bottles of Viagra and maps of the Appalachian Trail.
Paul
December 16th, 2011
9:21 am
BTW, Jay
What was your assessment of the questions asked by the panel (excepting the predictable, and at times, inaccurate, Cavuto)? I thought many of the questions, particularly the opening, particularly Megan Kelly’s pressing Gingrich over disbanding courts and subpoenaing judges, should lay to rest the idea all their news people roll over for Republicans.
Jay
December 16th, 2011
9:21 am
JohnnyReb, we didn’t even know where the drone was until the Iranians said they had it. And by the time they announced it, who knew where it was?
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
9:22 am
” The point remains that he wasn’t able to shut it down.” – Not from a lack of trying. From a lack of funding from Congress. Big difference.
Granny Godzilla
December 16th, 2011
9:22 am
“The point remains that he wasn’t able to shut it down. And he hasn’t continued trying. At least not so publicly that I’ve seen. Also, if he couldn’t get funding when his party completely controlled both houses of Congress, that says a lot about him.
vs
“Obama campaigned on shutting down Gitmo (which was obviously playing to his base), he gets into office and gets more information that obviously made him change his mind”
I like REAL maple syrup on my waffes.
Jay
December 16th, 2011
9:23 am
Ty, Romney had said earlier that he would have retrieved it or destroyed it.
Jm
December 16th, 2011
9:23 am
Amvet
“Go to hell.”
And this is what qualifies as a liberal debating point. Well done amvet. You’ve proven yourself to be an ….. Love them liberals, they sure know how to prove you wrong.
JohnnyReb
December 16th, 2011
9:24 am
Jay, so you have unrefutable proof we completely lost it? If that is the case, I do agree there were no options. Troops were never an option.
Not a Neal Boortz Redneck
December 16th, 2011
9:24 am
When the Bushpigs were banging the war drum for Iraq they had to lie to the Senate and tell them Saddam had WMD enabled drones loaded on ships in the Atlantic ready to fire at the US east coast.
Don’t remember the librul media telling us that? Here is a link to a Senator’s testimony at the Congressional Record.
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/s012804b.html
joe
December 16th, 2011
9:24 am
“I suspect audiences in other countries were even more appalled by the nonsense they heard last night.” Does that include those in Israel?
DoubleEagle
December 16th, 2011
9:25 am
Jay
Did Newt REALLY flunk you in history 101? Honestly, did he?
Hmmmmmmmmm
December 16th, 2011
9:25 am
It still amazes me the naivety that some still have concerning Obama…. A strong inner strength… Yikes, He has been in way over his head on just about every category…. He has spent this country into utter OBLIVION… and yet there are still loonies that will vote for this character… No, he is not the only problem, but this country has been without leadership in such a LONG time… I will still say, that this imposter should be voted out of office… Our country deserves better… Period!
Mick
December 16th, 2011
9:26 am
The legacy of the iraqi misadventure will be that we gift wrapped it with our blood and treasure to iran…
ps megan kelly is hottttttttttt…
Jay
December 16th, 2011
9:27 am
No, DoubleEagle.
I attended, as a journalist, his “college course” at Kennesaw State back in the ’90s. My history degree is from Penn State, not from West Georgia College, where Newt once taught.
Jay
December 16th, 2011
9:28 am
To the “other Jay,” please repost that under a slightly different blog name, just to avoid confusion.
Thank you sir.
Jm
December 16th, 2011
9:29 am
Paul 9:21 true dat
lynnie gal
December 16th, 2011
9:29 am
I didn’t see the debate last night ’cause I can’t stomach another clown show. But this sounds about right. If any one of these ‘tards somehow manage to win next year, and house and senate go red, it’s over folks. In their craven lust for power, they’ll make sure those Diebold voting machines never register a win for a Democrat again. Advice to the sane and rational–make sure your passports are current or renewed.
williebkind
December 16th, 2011
9:29 am
I say go get the drone with our military. We can send the gay troops and show the Iranians a much sweeter nicer soldier. Then they will apologize and return the drone.
Mick
December 16th, 2011
9:29 am
jay@9:27
So what was that experience like? Enquiring minds want to know….
Jm
December 16th, 2011
9:30 am
Brett baier is good too
barking frog
December 16th, 2011
9:30 am
Jay, 9:26, I agree, but Uncle Sugar has a long memory and
Iran dethroned our Shan and held our hostages. Revenge is
inevitable. If they had tried to kill Bush I, they would already
have been obliterated.
retired early
December 16th, 2011
9:30 am
JV
“Ron Paul was also an active duty Air Force officer and flight surgeon….”
That makes him credible, unlike the others. I just don’t agree on many of his other views and I think he is a bit past his prime…otherwise he’s the best of the GOP bunch.
(ir)Rational
December 16th, 2011
9:31 am
So, Granny and Peadawg – You’re saying that Obama couldn’t just issue an executive order shutting it down? I’m not buying it. Not even a little bit. Also not buying the idea that a democrat controlled Congress wouldn’t figure out somewhere for the money to come from for him to shut it down if he really wanted it closed. Especially considering how many in Congress campaigned on the very same issue. I’m going to stick with the idea that if he wanted it shut down, it would be shut down.
Hmmmmmmmmm
December 16th, 2011
9:31 am
There is no doubting that Newt is a smart man…. But he is more of the same political BS that we have in DC year in, year out…. Ron Paul would be a breath of fresh air… He may not have a chance, but MY vote goes to him. IMHO…
ty webb
December 16th, 2011
9:31 am
Jay,
sorry, that part wasn’t in the clip you provided, and I don’t remember hearing that. like I said, it’s one of those things that candidates say, then pray like hell that they don’t have to back up…”Read My lips” comes to mind…but then again, you have the ol’ fallback “facts on the ground have changed” to excuse such “misstatements”
TaxPayer
December 16th, 2011
9:33 am
I attended, as a journalist, his “college course” at Kennesaw State back in the ’90s.
You must have really ruffled some feathers high up the food chain to be doled out that punishment.
Jay
December 16th, 2011
9:35 am
Mick:
The course was what you’d expect from Newt, a collection of bright and shiny intellectual objects thrown together with no discernible pattern, mixed in with Hallmark Greeting Card-level celebrations of America’s can-do spirit that had allegedly been destroyed by ’60s liberals. The course title was “Renewing American Civilization.”
The fact that they offered graduate-level credit for taking it was an embarrassment to the Georgia university system.
Mary Elizabeth
December 16th, 2011
9:35 am
President Obama recently placed American troops in Australia to give China a clear message of America’s strength. Obama’s way involves complex thinking, doing, and planning ahead in today’s interconnected world. His is not a “cowboy” mentality that perceives in “shoot outs” of “winners and losers” for an on-the-spot declared victory. For a fuller understanding of Obama’s foreign policy approach, read the below link in the Washington Post.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/us-troops-headed-to-australia-irking-china/2011/11/16/gIQAiGiuRN_story.html
Jay
December 16th, 2011
9:36 am
Taxpayer, I volunteered. Basically did it on my own, because I was curious.
Paul
December 16th, 2011
9:36 am
Jay
I’ve been unable to find a transcript to check, but your column indicates the ‘destroy it or send in a team to get it back” answers had to do with after the Iranians took it and secured it.
I’m not sure that was how the question was laid out – that it was the initial response, as soon as the drone went down, which I understand from several reports was in a remote region and we were not sure, at that time, Iran was even aware of what had transpired.
So there’s a big, big difference between before capture and after capture.
Butch Cassidy
December 16th, 2011
9:37 am
So wait, the GOP candidates want to use force whenever necessary, and in this case could realistically excalate into war. We learned tha last time around that wars can’t be fought and paid for with tax cuts, so we would inherently have to increase taxes in order to finance the excursion.
REPUBLICANS WANT TO RAISE YOUR TAXES!!!!!!
Hey, using disconnected logic is really fun!
Katz P. Ajamas
December 16th, 2011
9:38 am
When I was a kid we would play ‘army’. We had protocols for for our hardware. Most, if captured, would explode if tampered with (fire crackers, batteries, thin wire to replace the fuse). I’d be very surprised if the captured hardware is not protected as well. I would also be very surprised if was actually lost. More likely, it is sitting in some previously unknown Iranian facility and collecting information.
AmVet - Make America safe. Deport a neo-con.
December 16th, 2011
9:38 am
joe, your “advice” to go into Iran and “take back the drone” has already been already discounted as more Republican nonsense.
You (in general) and your empty bravado kill me. You know nothing AT ALL about any of the particulars of this situation, yet have boundless “advice” on how to deal with it.
Can you incompetent neo-cons EVER learn from your deadly mistakes?
Lemme guess, you’re petrified that if we don’t invade Iran, and damn soon, that we will learn the hard way about smoking gun mushroom clouds.
You just got finished ensuring that thousands of flag-covered caskets came home to Dover AFB and now you just merrily want to do it all over again?
No sir. You are the biggest losers.
And you never-served chickenhawks have proven beyond all doubt that you could not invade Grenada without screwing it up terribly…
For Not a Neal Boortz Redneck…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGPD0ZBiMs0
Granny Godzilla
December 16th, 2011
9:38 am
(ir)Rational
December 16th, 2011
9:31 am
So, Granny and Peadawg – You’re saying that Obama couldn’t just issue an executive order shutting it down? I’m not buying it
I’m not selling it
It remains the truth.
Bill Orvis White
December 16th, 2011
9:39 am
OK, enough nonsense. Let me start here: It is a fact that only ONE candidate WILL revive the rightful Bush Doctrine. That man is none other than the honorable Speaker Newt Gingrich. Only one man will stare down the jihadists and that man is none other than the honorable Speaker Newt Gingrich. I’m praying that President Gingrich WILL send in troops to recover that drone. It’s rightfully ours and we deserve to get it back. We need a real leader who WILL fight for America’s interests FIRST.
Didn’t watch the entire debate, Liberal Jay? Figures. These highly qualified candidates are doing their job by annoying you and your friends in the liberal media and inside the beltway. You cannot take the heat from smart folks speaking common sense.
C’mon, We are engaged in a permanent War on Terror. The conflicts never end for God’s sake.
Merry Christmas and Amen,
Bill
Peter
December 16th, 2011
9:40 am
Put a Republican in office and the first thing he wants to do is start a WAR…..fund it……..hell no that is conservative.
The GOP is NOT Conservative.
Imagine if the money used in the Iraq War was used in the US for the good of the American people ?
Jay
December 16th, 2011
9:40 am
The course was so bad that the university regents adopted a rule forbidding its return or anything like it in the future. That’s when it was moved to privately run Reinhardt College for a while, then abandoned altogether.
It also formed the basis of Newt’s ethics violations. Newt claimed it wasn’t political and could be funded by tax-free donations, but they unearthed all kinds of internal Newt memos, etc., proving that it was thoroughly political in its goals and content.
Jm
December 16th, 2011
9:40 am
Jay. Considering you and boortz work for the same company, I wonder why they can’t get you together and sing kumbayah.
Soothsayer
December 16th, 2011
9:41 am
<a href=http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-16/no-wisconsin-recall-fatigue-as-signatures-surge-against-walker.htmlNo Wisconsin Recall Fatigue as Signatures Surge Against Walker
Wisconsin will be going into a New Year that resembles the current one — torn over the actions of Walker, 44, the first- term Republican who provoked organized labor by pushing collective-bargaining curbs through the Legislature. Tens of thousands of protesters gathered at the capital in February and March, and $43 million was spent on recall campaigns against state senators who supported Walker’s efforts.
“This is simply the shorts before the feature,” said Mordecai Lee, a political scientist at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. “The presumption was that the steam was out of the recall movement. It turns out that wasn’t the case.”
The Arnolds are part of a volunteer army of 5,000 who defied Walker’s predictions by collecting since mid-November more than 507,000 signatures, 33,000 shy of the minimum to authorize an ouster vote next year.
“The people of Wisconsin have said enough is enough,” Wisconsin Democratic Party Chairman Mike Tate said yesterday in suburban Milwaukee after announcing the signature totals and the goal of bringing the total to 720,000 during the next month. “We are well on our way.”
Get ready Fright-Wingers, this is the prelude to the 2012 elections.
The Walker camp laughed off prospects that the required number of signatures could be collected in the allotted time. Looks like the last laugh is on him.
Erwin's cat
December 16th, 2011
9:42 am
the trojan drone….that one?
I don’t think we want it back
ty webb
December 16th, 2011
9:43 am
speaking of college courses, I’m thinking Aaron Murray’s improvement throwing the ball at UGA(33 td passes), could be attributed to Cythia tuckers journalism class. Seems he’s modeled his throwing mechanics after her seemingly effortless quick release of the race card.
Jay
December 16th, 2011
9:43 am
Paul, the accounts I’ve seen report that we lost contact with the drone and had no idea what happened to it until the Iranians made their announcement.
Peter
December 16th, 2011
9:43 am
Gee… here is a typical GOP idea…….I’m praying that President Gingrich WILL send in troops to recover that drone.
One praying for what ? Religion a way to control the masses, especially used by the Republican’s.
Two invade another country….of course WAR is the GOP Mantra ! PAY for WAR ? HA HA HA sure….. the GOP can’t control the budget, or balance a budget.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 16th, 2011
9:43 am
Morning all. Just saw this.
R.I.P. Christopher Hitchens
http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/christopher-hitchens-militant-pundit-1261700.html?cxntlid=thbz_hm
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
9:44 am
For one thing, (ir)Rational, closing Guantanamo bay and transferring all the detainees to American soil would pose a security threat and that was a big reason why Obama couldn’t get others on board. I wouldn’t exactly call it a “failed promise”. I’d call it a “dumb promise”.
Fair enough?
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
9:45 am
Where’s getalife this morning? Afraid to show his face after claiming all day yesterday that the drone was fake? What a df….
Guy Incognito
December 16th, 2011
9:45 am
Mick
“ps megan kelly is hottttttttttt”
Google, Megyn Kelly Julie Bandaras. There’s a pic of them (prebabies) at a Corespondent’s Dinner a few years ago.
Wow!
Of course the left is lucky to have Candy Crowley, so FOX cant toot it’s horn too loudly
mm
December 16th, 2011
9:45 am
Pandering morons. Why do you think our country is bankrupt?
Bosch
December 16th, 2011
9:46 am
The day the troops come home from Iraq, the GOPers are howling for more war. The nation won’t like their pathetic rhetoric.
DecRec
December 16th, 2011
9:46 am
Obama rejected three plans for destroying or retrieving the drone because he was afraid of a war with a country which by his own words “is not a threat to us.” Yes, that may be the definition of “weak and timid.”
Jack
December 16th, 2011
9:46 am
AmVet at 9:03: I’m sure you’re proud of your tantrum. You should print it out and have your mommy paste it to the fridge. Bookman, tell us what you’d do about the drone; you’re the expert.
Mick
December 16th, 2011
9:47 am
Jay
Thanks for the info. I’d love to take a class of his and debate that intellectual hollow man myself, you know just challenge everything that spews forth. Man, do I miss collge and all my myriad strategies to disrupt bloviating perfessors. I have no doubt that mr. president obama would take him to the woodshed…
Jay
December 16th, 2011
9:49 am
Unfortunately, Jack, I don’t think we have any options there.
Peter
December 16th, 2011
9:50 am
Yup read the Blog..the GOP followers can’t wait to get into another WAR… Killing is the way of the GOP !
mm
December 16th, 2011
9:50 am
“Imagine if the money used in the Iraq War was used in the US for the good of the American people ?”
Precisely. The cons have no problem shotting up countries and democracy building, but to hell with spending a dime on our poor, our unemployed, or our infrastructure.
Bob
December 16th, 2011
9:50 am
For all of you Ron Paul supporters…..please realize that Obama would rip Ron a new one if by some miracle Ron won the ticket. We might as well put a big bullseye on American soil for the nuclear bomb that Iran is being allowed to create at will if Ron is President. You can’t be serious about Ron after watching the debate last night and Ron’s interview after with Sean Hannity. He’s an idiot. While none of the Republican candidates are exciting, Ron Paul is at the bottom.
Seth
December 16th, 2011
9:52 am
If the GOP runs anyone but Paul, they re-elect Obama and destroy themselves; if the GOP runs Paul they win. If Paul runs third party with a conservative, he re-elects Obama and keeps the GOP on life support. If Paul, however, runs with a liberal, he just might win and in the process put both parties on life support. We can only hope! Dennis Kucinich, your nation needs you.
Fidlin1
December 16th, 2011
9:53 am
The drone should have been destroyed when we had the chance covertly. Obama’s gone in ‘12, Go Newt!!
AmVet - Make America safe. Deport a neo-con.
December 16th, 2011
9:53 am
Fortunately the days of inept little men playing toy soldier/rogue cowboy in the White House are done.
And all of this “debate” is meaningless nonsense designed to tease the hopelessly delusional rabid dogs in the “base” into believing that they even have a chance in 2012.
Every week that goes by, it is obvious that this shameful and utterly incompetent GOP has given up in it’s efforts to reclaim the Executive Branch…
ByteMe
December 16th, 2011
9:53 am
Ok, so let’s add some facts here: what’s the cost of the drone and what super-secret technology is onboard one of those that might now be in Iranian hands? If it matters, we worry about it; if it doesn’t matter, then it’s just another stand-in argument for “he’s not one of us”.
BOBO
December 16th, 2011
9:54 am
WHY ARENT ARE DRONES EQUIPPPED WITH SELF DESTRUCTION METHOD, OR REMOTE
DESTRUCTION? IF ITS HIDDEN THEN PUSH A DARN BUTTON BLOW THE SUCKER UP WITH ALL THE PEOPLE STANDING AROUND MOCKING US? I MEAN WITH ALL OUR TECHNOLOGY
CANT WE INSTALL A SELF DESTRUCT? WOULD HAVE BEEN SMART I THINK…..
godless heathen
December 16th, 2011
9:56 am
I’m still amused by the mental image of Sasha upstairs in the White House with her little HUD on and a Wii controller flying the drone around the ME snapping pictures of stuff she thought was cool.
ty webb
December 16th, 2011
9:56 am
the lost drone is of no worry…the Iranians are still frantically searching the desert for the miniature pilot who flew the thing.
(ir)Rational
December 16th, 2011
9:56 am
Peadawg – So, you’re wanting to change it from a failed promise to a dumb promise. Not really seeing the difference as he didn’t do as promised. However, I’ll give you the point. So, the facts changed as far as he was concerned and he wasn’t able to keep (for whatever reason) his promise. That’s the point I was trying to make for the responses as far as this debate was concerned. They can say whatever they want today (not the best of ideas, but that is how politics apparently works in America today) to get elected, and then when they learn all the facts that they had no way of knowing before hand, they can change their minds. That’s all I was saying. You don’t have all the facts, neither do I. I can’t say what I would have done in the situation, and I can’t say what I would do with the current situation. But I can say that given all the facts, I would have to make a decision and hope that it was the right one. If it wasn’t, I would have a lot of people to answer to. But at the same time, how do we way which decision is the right one? Who is to say that the decision to not go in and get it isn’t the correct one, if the drone, while infinitely more advanced than the ones they may have seen before, isn’t all that top secret to us or even close to our newest/best technology. Maybe we lose some respect publicly but put it out on the back channels to governments around the world that we made the decision not to try and retrieve it because war with Iran wasn’t worth it for some older, almost outdated technology.
Normal
December 16th, 2011
9:56 am
BOBO,
As stated yesterday…no self destruct. Explosives are too heavy.
Ackshun
December 16th, 2011
9:56 am
It’s not like we lost an F22 here. It’s an unmanned drone. The whole reason it is in use is particularly because it is expendable. It’s a model airplane with cameras and hellfire missiles (maybe) and Iran won’t have that much more tech than they could get with information available on the internet. p3 (pointless political posturing) at its best. Meanwhile the ingnorant masses are led to believe this is the second coming of the Rosenbergs.
AmVet - Make America safe. Deport a neo-con.
December 16th, 2011
9:56 am
Jack, my 86 year old “mommy” is a holocaust survivor. My grandfather, a small town attorney in Germany, died a bellhop in London.
And it is only because of the rest of us that quasi-fascists like you have never had the chance to do similar things in this country.
Paul
December 16th, 2011
9:57 am
Jay
This is one of the earliest reports I saw regarding the incident, reporting what we thought happened and what we thought the Iranians knew. Stated it went down in a remote area and we were not sure the Iranians were aware of the incident.
I do understand it’s a key distinction – did the Iranians detect it at the time, or not? – and views on what was or was not subsequently possible hinge on that.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204770404577082822643123332.html
Bishop Eddie Longs Red Panties
December 16th, 2011
9:59 am
They dont call it “Fox News Network” for nothing Va Va Voom!!
Donovan
December 16th, 2011
9:59 am
Let’s get the bigger picture out of the way first. Liberals, much like all elitists, come from the same mold. They like to talk about things rather than do things. They over analize situations to the point of failing to accomplish anything positive. They have no backbone nor moral courage to take on tough decisions. They have always given America a bad name and given aide to the our enemies due to their timidity and treasonous ideology.
So let’s start with the blame Bush thing again. Even though I had a problem with the Bush decision, the after action report told a different story. We were in international air space when challenged by a SU-23. The hot-dogging fighter pilot got too close and consequently died in the episode. It was either land the damaged plane or die eating a missle from another warplane. Rescue was impossible and retaliation against a nuke country was suicide.
First of all, sending troops in to Iran is a foolish notion cooked up in a liberal argument. However, destroying the drone by various options was a doable mission. Besides, it would have been a strong message to those Islamic fanatics. Secondly, Iran is not yet a nuke country.
Taking down bin Laden was easy, once we knew where he lived. So don’t even go there and defend the community organizer of bravado. Had he not done the deed his reelection would be doomed.
There was no such pandering by the candidates as Bookman saw it. These GOP guys represent the heart and soul of American pride and not the spineless liberal left that enjoy attacking their own citizens with insults of “half-informed cowboy governor” rhetoric insults.
Is it any wonder the enemies of our country rely on weak-kneed liberals to do their fifth column work? Thanks again for your support of the Viet Nam War and the Iraqi War.
26belly
December 16th, 2011
9:59 am
“Drone goes down in Iran!” I first thought was how stupid can these guys be. Then I heard it was our best, “double-secret”, not capable of manufacturing, we don’t have the technology drone….and the CIA was behind the mission! LOL! You know what, yeah! Let the Iranians have it. The CIA still has that entire country spooked from their s&m days in the basement of the U.S. Embassy in downtown Tehran. There’s not telling how much intelligence is being gathered “from” the Iranians from this “downed” drone!
dre
December 16th, 2011
10:00 am
Anything that needed to be destroyed on that drone, WAS destroyed on that drone before it hit the ground. I feel fairly certain our Air Force might have spent a few minutes or so on this scenario playing out. The U.S. and Obama (and I am no fan) could care less whether we get it back. That’s why he said “pretty please, can we have it back?”
stands for decibels
December 16th, 2011
10:01 am
Fortunately the days of inept little men playing toy soldier/rogue cowboy in the White House are done.
The majority of Americans are a lot more sensible than they are, these days, it would appear:
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/11/22/rel19c.pdf
Which comes closer to your own opinion — The U.S. should not attack another country unless that country has attacked the U.S. first, or the U.S. should be able to attack any country it thinks might attack the U.S.?
Should not attack unless attacked first – 74%
[...]
In a procedure known as “waterboarding,” interrogators produce the sensation of drowning by either dunking a restrained prisoner in water or pouring water over the prisoner’s face. Do you consider this procedure to be a form of torture, or not?
Torture – 68%
Jm
December 16th, 2011
10:02 am
Mary Elizabeth
Re Australia. That was a very good move by Obama.
The Colonel
December 16th, 2011
10:02 am
Jay Bookman, you need to do some research before you enter the foreign policy arena.
The Hainan Island incident involved American hostages. We were NOT violating anyone’s airspace…the Chinese just didn’t like the idea that we were eavesdropping. When hostages are involved, you do what you have to do to get their freedom. It is just that simple. Oh, the airplane that they disassembled was 30 year old technology….the only intelligence value was the electronic equipment inside which was disabled before they landed.
All these political candidates are making statements that are targeted at the emotions of voters. Whomever the next President is will quickly learn to rely on the recommendations of the Defense Dept. In the case of this Drone incident, I seriously doubt that anyone in the Dept. of Defense would have been willing to put a single American life at risk to recover a piece of technology. Had we known where it was (we didn’t) we could have destroyed it with a few cruise missles. But, you can bet your next paycheck that all the facts regarding this Drone incident have yet to be revealed.
The debate revealed some very serious, naive foreign policy experience and understanding. Your comments are in the same category.
Granny Godzilla
December 16th, 2011
10:02 am
Donovan
” They like to talk about things rather than do things. ”
and you can stop reading right there….
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
10:02 am
” he didn’t do as promised.”
He couldn’t get funding. He tried. Simple as that.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 16th, 2011
10:03 am
Donovan: “Is it any wonder the enemies of our country rely on weak-kneed liberals to do their fifth column work? Thanks again for your support of the Viet Nam War and the Iraqi War.”
Rough getting through the morning hours before Rush is on the air huh?
Me tough chest-pumping conservative!!! Liberals weak kneed sissy pinkos!!! Oooh!
By the way just what IS a “liberal” Donovan? (Hint: you can’t answer anyone who opposes a Republican policy.)
Hmmmmmmmmm
December 16th, 2011
10:04 am
Mary,
You seem like a very intelligent and informed person… This country is BANKRUPT because of his policy. Plain and simple, we don’t need a slick talking salesman as leader of this country… We need a LEADER… I’m not going to argue either, I think if you look at his short history as President, an intelligent person can filter out the good and bad to decide how good a leader this man has been for this country…. It’s just my opinion, but Trillions of dollars of debt is just one reason Obama has failed…. Not the only reason, but by far the most important…
Erwin's cat
December 16th, 2011
10:05 am
What ever information about the drone is released to the media should be considered suspect at best
JKL2
December 16th, 2011
10:05 am
GOP candidates tout war-happy, shoot-first approach
Libya says, “What?”
getalife
December 16th, 2011
10:07 am
The debate was a joke like the gop party.
Richard
December 16th, 2011
10:07 am
You’re never going to prevent Iran from getting Nukes short of wiping the whole country off the face of the planet. You might succeed in delaying them a few years by bombing them, but they will eventually have the tech. Then guess who their going to go after. I say if they want to try to take on Isreal, go right ahead. Just be forewarned Iranians, Isreal’s got nukes to and I doubt they’d be afraid to use them.
As for the spy drone? Shouldn’t have let it get shot down if you didn’t want it in enemy hands. I think Jay’s got the right of it this time. If there was an Iranian spy drone flying over the US, we damn well better shoot it down and not give it back.
Paul
December 16th, 2011
10:10 am
ackshun
“It’s not like we lost an F22 here. It’s an unmanned drone. The whole reason it is in use is particularly because it is expendable. It’s a model airplane with cameras and hellfire missiles (maybe) and Iran won’t have that much more tech than they could get with information available on the internet.”
Not really. You may want to read up on the RQ-170 before posting such conclusions. Iranian/Chinese/Russian difficulty would come in manufacturing alloys, even if/when they determine what they are. Same is true for the reconnaissance/comm systems. Another negative is subsystems it may share with our latest-generation fighter, the F-22.
Jay
December 16th, 2011
10:10 am
Colonel, please cite where I claim we were violating China’s airspace in the Hainan incident. I wrote that it was forced down on Chinese soil, which is accurate.
And no, you don’t do what you have to do to get back hostages. Once you make that policy, you raise the value of hostages and increase the chance that hostages will be taken.
ty webb
December 16th, 2011
10:10 am
“gop party” is redundant is redundant.
stands for decibels
December 16th, 2011
10:11 am
This country is BANKRUPT
Yeah, we’re so “bankrupt” that we have to pay crazy interest on T-bills just to attract investors…
oh, wait.
Granny Godzilla
December 16th, 2011
10:11 am
“hmmmmmmmmmmm America is bankrupt because of President Obama’s policies…”
oh yea..teleprompter, socialist, wmds, regulations kills jobs….
and the list gets longer and longer
Paul
December 16th, 2011
10:11 am
dre
“Anything that needed to be destroyed on that drone, WAS destroyed on that drone before it hit the ground”
Do you have a source for that, or is it speculation?
bill arp
December 16th, 2011
10:12 am
Iran wants to be our best friend, they really do.
Granny Godzilla
December 16th, 2011
10:12 am
Actually
Libya says
“Thanks”
godless heathen
December 16th, 2011
10:12 am
getalife,
Glad you here. Tell them all about how there was no drone lost and the White House said so.
If you here it folks, believe it because getalife doesn’t lie like cons.
mm
December 16th, 2011
10:13 am
The wingnuts think they know everything about economics and foreign policy.
That explains why they bankrupted our country and made us the most hated country in the world.
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
10:13 am
“The debate was a joke like the gop party.” – Also like you and your “that drone was fake” dribble from yesterday. Points and laughs.
““gop party” is redundant is redundant.” – LOL yeah like “ATM machine” and “PIN number”
godless heathen
December 16th, 2011
10:13 am
hear (damn homophones)
Midori
December 16th, 2011
10:13 am
http://www.theonion.com/articles/handmade-antiobama-sign-currently-frontrunner-for,20680/
Hmmmmmmmmm
December 16th, 2011
10:15 am
Granny,
Facts are Facts…. Just do the math… He is not the only one, but it is his watch….
Paul
December 16th, 2011
10:15 am
Well, in all this my hope is if Romney wins the White House that his response will be the inverse of President Obama’s.
Some people thought he would be a weak-willed Democrat who wouldn’t make ‘tough’ choices. He’s made plenty – from Afghanistan to OBL to Patriot Act to drone strikes.
So maybe, just maybe, a President Romney will lose the campaign-trail testosterone and, when faced with reality, will make prudent decisions.
showing humilty
December 16th, 2011
10:16 am
Hey two face Mitt: 22 of 27 world top terroist are dead under Obama, his record speaks for itself, no attacks on America soil, this shows what a bunch of idiots on the right, would you really want these people making national security decision?
Obama brought our troops home and these Anti Americans on the right can not stand it, go ask the son and daughters who were station in these hell hole are they happy to be home, fat slob rush limbaugh bashing the President for bringing our troop home, had Obama been Clinton or Bush he would have been label a hero for getting our troops home, what a bunch of sick bigots we have on the right””’
AmVet - Make America safe. Deport a neo-con.
December 16th, 2011
10:16 am
ty,
Help stamp out and eliminate redundancy! ~The Department of Redundancy Department
Granny Godzilla
December 16th, 2011
10:16 am
hmmmmmmmmmmmm
yep facts are fact…that’s why you have already altered yours.
I remain umimpressed
Welcome to the Occupation
December 16th, 2011
10:17 am
Mary Elizabeth: “I will say, again, that President Obama has authentic inner strength; his vision is evolved and he is leading America in the right direction. Elect Gov. Romney as president and you will elect a weak leader, regardless of what he says.”
What is authentically strong about caving yet again to Republicans on the modest tax raises on the high-earners in this latest farcical round of haggling in Washington?
By the way, why do you bend over backwards to defend a man who said “The free market is the greatest force for economic progress in human history“, as Obama did last week in Kansas, in light of all the evidence one could possibly hope for to the contrary?
Sounds like Republican-lite to me, hardly a profile in courage — or intelligence for that matter.
willie lynch
December 16th, 2011
10:17 am
Jay
December 16th, 2011
9:07 am
Sanity and clarity don’t work with those of unclear mind or should I say the not so sane. Good luck!
Normal
December 16th, 2011
10:19 am
Off topic…
Buck McKeon (R-CA) would rather not hire Federal workers in order to pay for the mandated DoD cuts. Great priorities, huh?
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/12/military-folo-sequestration-protection-buck-mckeon-cut-fed-work-force-121411w/
Paul
December 16th, 2011
10:21 am
showing humility
“no attacks on America soil”
Ft Hood?
ty webb
December 16th, 2011
10:22 am
Amvet,
yeah, that’s a much needed bureacracy that I’m sure we all could agree to agree would be much needed.
Normal
December 16th, 2011
10:23 am
As a ex-military man, we were told that there would be no negotiations on our behalf ever. As members of the military it was understood that we were expendable to the good of the country.
Hmmmmmmmmm
December 16th, 2011
10:23 am
altered,,,, Yikes, and this is why we need some form of testing before you are able to vote… I mean good grief…
What are you talking about?
December 16th, 2011
10:23 am
“It was a horror show”
Jay, you are quite possibly the dumbest smart person I know.
JF McNamara
December 16th, 2011
10:23 am
We don’t have the money or military resources to have a war of choice right now. It’s really that simple. A military response would take months because we have to assume they will take it as an act of war and prepare to conquer Iran before our strike.
They are spewing nonsense. Foreign Policy is the one area where I would give Obama an “A”. He’s killed terrorist, set Iraq and Afghanistan on paths to exit, started a cold war with Pakistan because they harbor terrorists, and strengthened our position against China without any real dissention. What’s not to love?
Jm
December 16th, 2011
10:23 am
Trotsky
I’ll give you credit for this though we seriously disagree on major issues
You’re not a mindless Obama worshipper like a lot of the folks here
AmVet - Just say no to the War Pigs.
December 16th, 2011
10:26 am
and this is why we need some form of testing before you are able to vote
From a long line of big Jim Crow fans, no doubt…
Jm
December 16th, 2011
10:26 am
Trotsky
Obama is a 1%er too, btw
Erwin's cat
December 16th, 2011
10:28 am
gotta go make some pasta…gnocchi, it’s what’s for dinner!
Welcome to the Occupation
December 16th, 2011
10:28 am
Jm: “You’re not a mindless Obama worshipper like a lot of the folks here”
Well, it’s thankless work, so … thanks.
gm
December 16th, 2011
10:28 am
Hello idiots on the right: We tried the John Wayne approach with the last President: 5,000 Americans dead in NY, 4500 American troop dead;
Americans hated around the world, someone throw a shoe at our President.
Lets look at Obama, troops are home America , country has been safe, terroist are being killed, respect around the world has come back, yet the idiots on the right would love for America to go back to being put in danger, let their sons and daughters go fight especially Dick Chaney racist, silver spoon daughter.
Proactive
December 16th, 2011
10:30 am
One MAJOR thing I don’t understand… The drones are remote controlled. Why don’t they have a self-destruct button? I mean, HELLO? If they are going to fly a fricken spy drone around a hostile country… Really?
Keep Up the Good Fight!
December 16th, 2011
10:30 am
Instead of testing voters, can we test candidates? I think a grueling weeklong test on a variety of subjects faced by a national leader would be good.
Of course, right now, there may be only 1 or 2 Republican candidates who even stand a chance of surviving a real test. 
show humility
December 16th, 2011
10:31 am
Paul
Was he not a American that attack Ft. Hood ?
Proactive
December 16th, 2011
10:31 am
You know… “In case s**t HAPPENS”????
Jm
December 16th, 2011
10:31 am
Obama to sign defense bill today taking away your civil rights
Stand up to your president democrats and liberals!
Obama the oppressor is just another 1%er
Pat
December 16th, 2011
10:31 am
Stupidity has always been a requirement for voting for the GOP unless you reap the benefits of massive multi-national profits. But in the past, Republican leaders were at least 10-20 higher in IQ than the Republican voter – they simply crafted “dumbed down” messaging to wave the red meat to their base. Example: George Bush Sr. didn’t believe a tenth of the crap he let Lee Atwater use to smear his opponents. It was just the “dirty work” that had to be done to get him the office he believed his due.
This is no longer true. The rise of the unholy Trinity of Perry, Bachmann and Cain – actually considered for the top office in the country – is testimony to the fact that if you tolerate stupidity long enough, you will embrace it. The rise of Gingrich now is partly due to the fact that in comparison, he actually “seems” smart, in that he can craft coherent sentences to attempt to align his many inconsistencies. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
Hmmmmmmmmm
December 16th, 2011
10:31 am
LOL…. If that makes you feel better…. Why not bring Jim Crow into the discussion…. There will always be a “race” issue to blame…
godless heathen
December 16th, 2011
10:32 am
gm,
You make the left proud.
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
10:33 am
“and this is why we need some form of testing before you are able to vote
From a long line of big Jim Crow fans, no doubt…”
What’s wrong with testing a voter on whether or not they know the candidate’s position on certain issues? With all the rednecks and n-words in 2008 and people voting blindly either way pretty much every year…probably not a bad idea.
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
10:34 am
“Obama to sign defense bill today taking away your civil rights” – Again, df who can’t read, US citizens are exempt.
Jm
December 16th, 2011
10:34 am
New AP poll
For first time a majority, 52% say obama does not deserve to be re-elected
getalife
December 16th, 2011
10:34 am
godless,
Just because you lost the debate yesterday does not give you the right to lie about me.
I never said that.
Hmmmmmmmmm
December 16th, 2011
10:35 am
keep up the good fight,
But then we would have NO candidates on the left to qualify…. Good idea though…
Welcome to the Occupation
December 16th, 2011
10:35 am
Jm: “Obama is a 1%er too, btw”
That’s true.
How many people can draw adoring crowds in Berlin or Cairo without speaking a word in those countries’ languages, not to mention not really having anything really profound to offer the people of those countries other than vague new age bromides. There’s something a little sad about how easily this figure has been able to play the role of international political rock star even while showing that he loathes and despises politics with every fiber of his being.
JAMES
December 16th, 2011
10:36 am
All drones and jets should have a suicide app. or whatever you want to call it and it should have been destroyed remotely.
AmVet - Just say no to the War Pigs.
December 16th, 2011
10:36 am
Real Americans want EVERY American citizen (excluding those that are now not eligible) to be involved in the electoral process.
American fascists want to start eliminating people by group, class, etc, just like their racist daddies did…
Own it bigots. You’ve worked hard to get this reputation…
godless heathen
December 16th, 2011
10:36 am
Never said what, get?
Mary Elizabeth
December 16th, 2011
10:37 am
Hmmmmmmm@10:04
Thank you for your kind words in my behalf. I have posted the following on this blog on July 27 and again on Nov. 9 of this year, regarding the spending and the huge deficit America now has. I will post it again for you and any others, who may be interested, to analyze.
——————————————————————
“On the Chris Matthews’ Show on July 27, 2011, Bruce Bartlett, George H. W. Bush’s Deputy Treasurer, gave this chart in accounting for the U.S.’s 14 Trillion Dollar Deficit:
2.0 Trillion due to the Recession
1.4 Trillion due to Obama Policies
4.0 Trillion due to George W. Bush’s Policies (unpaid for wars and drug entitlement program)
3.0 Trillion due to Bush Tax Cuts
3.6 Trillion due to Social Programs
Total = 14 trillion (of which half, or 7 trillion dollars, said Bartlett, were directly related to George Bush’s tax cuts and policies.)
—————————————————-
I will, also, restate what Paul Krugman had written on 2/22/10 paraphrased: The Republican Party has deliberately run up the deficit as a “bait and switch” plan – with their real purpose to cut entitlements such as Social Security and Medicare.
President Obama inherited a “mess,” to be quite blunt. He has steadily made our situation, both domestically and internationally, better. His overall foreign policy plan is to win genuine allies throughout the world, thereby having the real strength of being able to isolate from the world those mavericks, such as Iran’s government, which does not play by the rules of the majority of nations. Moreover, he is aware of the growing egalitarian consciousness in people throughout the world, including in the average citizens in Iran, itself. Iran, like other Arab dictatorial regimes, may fall from within,as a result of this growing consciousness and movement.
I mean no insult to you, especially after you have been so kind to me, but I suspect that you are listening to FoxNEWS and/or Rush Limbaugh too often. Please, if this is true, turn your TV dial to MSNBC for another perspective in the evenings. I realize it leans Left, but I recommend doing so, just to give you another perspective.
Jm
December 16th, 2011
10:37 am
Peadawg
Ask Jay. He doesn’t think so, unless he’s flip flopped since his post a few weeks ago after the supposed exemption was already in place.
Take it up with jay. But he’s gone silent on the issue. For now anyway. Could be the Sunday column.
getalife
December 16th, 2011
10:38 am
The gop will vote for 662 billion more for war and not one con said that is too much.
cons,
Your party punked you on spending and the tea party are irrelevant.
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
10:38 am
Hey, getalife, do you still thing the drone is fake like you did yesterday? Or are you going to man up, apologize for your stupidity, and admit you were wrong.
ty webb
December 16th, 2011
10:38 am
Welcome to the occupation,
tread lightly, you’re sounding closer and closer like a “racist”…you’ve been warned.
getalife
December 16th, 2011
10:39 am
godlees,
I crushed you.
Get over it.
GM
December 16th, 2011
10:39 am
godless heathen
I know, tell me what part is a lie? truth always hurt
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
10:39 am
“Ask Jay. He doesn’t think so” – And just b/c Jay says so makes it true? I didn’t know you followed Jay so blindly. Use google, son. Every story I read yesterday says the bill has a provision that says US citizens are exempt.
Paul
December 16th, 2011
10:40 am
showing humility
“Was he not a American that attack Ft. Hood ?”
Irrelevant. Your comment was “Hey two face Mitt: 22 of 27 world top terroist are dead under Obama, his record speaks for itself, no attacks on America soil,”
If you want to move goalposts (or clarify?), a more relevant question would be “Is Ft Hood on American soil?”
Merely pointing out the danger of speaking in absolutes when one engages in heated political rhetoric.
Jm
December 16th, 2011
10:40 am
Getalife was claiming all night long the drone was propaganda and fake
Getalife. Getsomecred
Mary Elizabeth
December 16th, 2011
10:41 am
That should have been: “mavericks. . . which do (not does) not play by the rules of the majority of nations.”
Normal
December 16th, 2011
10:42 am
I see jm has learned today’s talking points from the right…
getalife
December 16th, 2011
10:42 am
Pea,
Well show me the drone video for proof.
The drone operator, commanding officers and the WH have seen it and know the truth.
I am from the show me state after all the government lies.
Don’t trust and always verify.
Paul
December 16th, 2011
10:42 am
Jay
Found a complete replay of the debate here
http://www.2012presidentialelectionnews.com/
The questioning began with Ron Paul (if we had definite intel Iran had a nuke, would you still do away with sanctions, etc) and from there morphed into the drone situation. I did not see any ‘at time of downing” or ” now that that have it” distinctions. It all ran together in a cheerleading muddle.
GM
December 16th, 2011
10:43 am
JM
Same poll that said Obama was not going to win 08, I guess when you ask the same people that voted for MCcain and Palin, the numbers would be higher for not approve of his job””’
jconservative
December 16th, 2011
10:43 am
Nice column Jay.
You left out Eisenhower’s U 2 spy plane.
You also left out Reagan sticking his tail between his tail and crawling out of Lebanon after 280 Marines were killed.
PMC
December 16th, 2011
10:43 am
Jay there’s a pretty good parallel if you want to compare between GW Bush’s handling of a “spy” plane disagreement with China in 2000 I believe.
Obama’s response wasn’t perhaps as forceful, but it may have been more rational in this instance.
I for one am not under the inclination that the Iranians will gleam much if anything from this drone. They have materials, and that’s about it.
Normal
December 16th, 2011
10:43 am
…and jm, President Obama has already admitted he is one of the 1%er’s, but that he is also willing to pay more. God, what a Socialist he is, huh?
Halftrack
December 16th, 2011
10:43 am
There is news out now that says the Drone was jammed and brought down to a landing spot as it is designed to do so in malfunctions. It also has a GPS system so they know where it is. Yes Obummer should have sent someone to blow it up. Evil must be confronted and if it is not it emboldens entities to do more evil. Liberals never understand this. They think you can say ‘pretty please give our drone back or I’m carrying my ball and bat home.
lliberalefty
December 16th, 2011
10:44 am
wow more macho bs from chickenhawk gop
Jm
December 16th, 2011
10:44 am
Peadawg 10:39
Every civil rights group the supposed protections are somewhere south of “very weak” (just call it non existent)
getalife
December 16th, 2011
10:45 am
Which side do you believe cons.
The Pentagon said the drone was destroyed or Iran said they have the drone?
Your call.
godless heathen
December 16th, 2011
10:45 am
getalife
December 15th, 2011
3:12 pm
godless,
The Pentagon said the drone was destroyed.
__________________
Noone else has able to confirm this and I asked getalife for a source and he/she has not provided one. But getalife don’t lie like cons.
Hmmmmmmmmm
December 16th, 2011
10:45 am
Mary,
You still have just stated the obvious…. Sure he inherited a mess. I would not argue that point….
He has compounded the “mess” on his watch, and you, like every other Obama supporter just wants to turn their heads and rationalize his short comings…
BTW, I don’t listen to the Fox drivel. MSNBC, is just another Fox with an equally warped agenda… My perspective is my personal due diligence. My personal research is done based on verifiable information… You would do yourself a service to turn OFF the TV, and research for yourself… This again is just IMHO… Your opinion is obviously different…
Steve
December 16th, 2011
10:45 am
Merry Christmas to All!! God Bless!!
I am going to pray to God (the Almighty Father) for Obama, Barney Frank, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Matt Damon, Sean Penn, David Axelrod, and Jay Bookman as they have lost their way in the world.
God Bless to All. Amen.
getalife
December 16th, 2011
10:46 am
Pea, godleess.
Which side do you believe?
Jm
December 16th, 2011
10:47 am
The risk is not the Iranians getting the drone tech
They will sell it to china
China is a big and real threat
ragnar danneskjold
December 16th, 2011
10:48 am
To the sychophants – or should that be sicko-fants – of the democrat party, I suppose any politician who fails to make world-wide apology tours and fails to appease the dictators of Russia and Venezuela sounds war-happy. One should always assume democrats will not put America first.
getalife
December 16th, 2011
10:48 am
godless,
The Pentagon’s story was on CNN.
Which side do you believe?
Pick a side or shut up.
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
10:49 am
“Show me the video”
“I am from the show me state after all the government lies.”
You’re sounding as crazy as the birthers, getalife. Can we call you a “droner”?
AmVet - Just say no to the War Pigs.
December 16th, 2011
10:49 am
The more insane and suicidal the neo-cons become, the more fiercely proud they are of being so.
It appears that Bush/Cheney ruined the GOP for at least a generation.
And the rest of the country for a decade or more…
getalife
December 16th, 2011
10:50 am
Pea,
So you believe Iran’s story?
Jay
December 16th, 2011
10:50 am
Paul, it may be 40 years, if then, before we learn the actual truth of how this went down. I don’t buy the official versions from either side.
Hmmmmmmmmm
December 16th, 2011
10:50 am
Steve,
You run the risk of being labeled a NARROW minded christian…. But I agree, we need to pray, this is really our only hope…
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
10:50 am
“The Pentagon said the drone was destroyed” – Link please?
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
10:51 am
“Pea,
So you believe Iran’s story?”
Do you have a link to where the Pentagon said it was destroyed? I haven’t been able to find one.
HoyaLawya
December 16th, 2011
10:51 am
Of course they all want to goad Obama into doing something foolish. That would (as you pointed out, Jay) send the economy into a tailspin, put us at odds with the international community, and get us into another ill-advised, foolish Middle Eastern war. What better way to insure Obama is not re-elected? C’mon, you know that is the Republicans ONLY goal, right?! They have to destroy the US in order to save it from that evil socialistic Kenyan…
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
10:52 am
getalife, the droner…points and laughs again
getalife
December 16th, 2011
10:53 am
Thank you Jay.
Knowing there is a covert war in full mode, propaganda is too much on this one.
I don’t buy anything the Pentagon or Iran will say until this covert war is over.
Great time to be in the CIA if you like action.
St Simons - we're on Island time
December 16th, 2011
10:53 am
Thinking of my friends in civilized countries,
this is beginning to just be embarrassing at this point.
This is starting to look like when the drunk uncle shows up at the
family reunion and knocks over tables and farts in the microphone, etc
godless heathen
December 16th, 2011
10:54 am
getalife,
I can’t find it anywhere on the www.
You seem to have been the only one watching CNN when the report aired, but that’s not hard to believe when you look at their ratings.
Erwin's cat
December 16th, 2011
10:54 am
Jay – “Paul, it may be 40 years, if then, before we learn the actual truth of how this went down. I don’t buy the official versions from either side.”
—————————————————————-
completely agree….
DawgDad
December 16th, 2011
10:54 am
“Romney, it turns out, is also in the “destroy it or go get it” camp”
Jay, what precisely led you to this conclusion? Romney said NOTHING of the sort.
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
10:54 am
I found this link of the WP:
“An American official briefed on the probe said the United States obtained imagery of the downed aircraft showing that its frame was still in one piece. Asked whether that means the aircraft was in tact, the official said, “It depends on how you define that.” Even if the frame was still together, the official said, many of its components are likely to have been destroyed “when something hits the ground that hard.””
I still don’t see any proof, droner.
getalife
December 16th, 2011
10:54 am
Pea,
CNN.
godless heathen
December 16th, 2011
10:55 am
“getalife, the droner”
LOL!
Paul
December 16th, 2011
10:55 am
Jay
“I don’t buy the official versions from either side.”
Agree. As I wrote yesterday, too much just doesn’t pass the common-sense test.
But people do love to speculate and put it out as fact, here and elsewhere, don’t they?
Jm
December 16th, 2011
10:55 am
The republican goal is not to defeat Obama, it is to improve FOX ratings
Thought I’d throw a bone to the liberals. Here ya go….
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
10:55 am
“Pea,
CNN.”
Link please. And nothing that includes the word “likely”. Droner.
Jay
December 16th, 2011
10:56 am
Yes, Dawgdad, he did:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fcenXRFkAoM#!
Jm
December 16th, 2011
10:57 am
Droners are as dumb as birthers
Both probably equally armed and dangerous
getalife
December 16th, 2011
10:57 am
You don’t have the guts to pick a side so ‘I will include none of the above.
Do you believe:
Iran.
Pentagon.
Or none of the above.
Mary Elizabeth
December 16th, 2011
10:57 am
Hmmmmmmm@10:45
I did not simply say Obama inherited a “mess.” I gave you a well defined chart of expenditures to account for the 14 trillion dollar debt. You, in your post, however, gave nothing of substance in refute of that data. If you have “verfiable” data then give it, please, regarding the now 15 trillion dollar debt.
I watch and listen to many programs including FOXNews and Rush Limbaugh, the New York Times, Mother Jones, Paul Krugman, and I read many books and articles. I also reflect upon a wealth of personal experiences, all from which I base my conclusions. I simply suggested MSNBC to you, and any other hardline conservative as an antidote to the blatant propaganda that has been fed to Americans on FoxNEWS for almost two decades.
Ares
December 16th, 2011
10:59 am
There is an enemy cultivating out there.
“An Islamist majority in Egypt’s new parliament – 37 percent for the Muslim Brotherhood and 24 percent for the ultra-radical Islamist Nour (“Light”) party – is now a given. The radicals, known as Salafists, want to turn the clock back to the behavior of the first Muslim converts. They are violent, demand a ban on alcohol (which would kill the tourist industry, or 15 percent of the economy), and a dress code for women that makes them look like ambulatory tents.
Salafism is the key religious ingredient in jihadism. In normally moderate Tunisia, the Salafi message is circulating freely, unimpeded by now dismantled censorship.”
- DeBorgraves
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
10:59 am
“Do you believe:
Iran.
Pentagon.
Or none of the above.”
Iran says they have it. Pentagon says it was LIKELY destroyed but doesn’t for sure. The droner is saying is was destroyed for sure but no link to back it up. Not sure who to believe.
stands for decibels
December 16th, 2011
10:59 am
““gop party” is redundant is redundant.” – LOL yeah like “ATM machine” and “PIN number”
And no forgetta the “Pizza Pie.”
godless heathen
December 16th, 2011
11:00 am
Believe what, droner? You can’t produce this super-secret Pentagon report that only you saw so we can judge if we believe it or not.
PMC
December 16th, 2011
11:00 am
nevermind, sorry. I see that you have it in there, I had not read that far yet.
getalife
December 16th, 2011
11:00 am
Come on droners.
Choose.
AmVet - Just say no to the War Pigs.
December 16th, 2011
11:01 am
getalife, to your point at 10:53, there was a post a few weeks back that was pretty interesting (even though it was obviously written by a die-hard Republican) but it had one of the most bizarre premises I’ve ever read.
Essentially the write said that the reason things have gone so badly regarding American foreign policy over the past decade or so was because we failed to believe the Pentagon.
Hello???!!!
I’m not sure how old that writer was, but this American came of age under the likes of Johnson/Nixon.
And if there was overriding theme throughout that disastrous era, it was that nobody in their right mind believed anything that that the US government – especially the Pentagon – said.
And in all the years since, endless examples, including the horrific Tillman debacle, have only confirmed that my suspicions as a teenager were correct…
Mick
December 16th, 2011
11:01 am
mary elizabeth
You have too much common sense sweetheart, it possibly makes the ignorant minds at work here….implode! Keep on trucking…
getalife
December 16th, 2011
11:01 am
Pea chooses Iran.
Your turn godless.
PMC
December 16th, 2011
11:02 am
All this said, your first problem was probably watching a presidential debate in general.
thanks Mitt
December 16th, 2011
11:02 am
new navy
new missiles
more spending
we are going to run our economy into the ground just to push around a few middle eastern despots? lord help us.
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
11:02 am
“Come on droners.
Choose”
You still haven’t provided us w/ your super secret link that only you know of. Back up your claim, droner.
Jm
December 16th, 2011
11:02 am
Droner is repetitive. On and on. But no intel.
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
11:04 am
“Pea chooses Iran.”
Really? Where did I say that?
I’m starting to see a pattern of avoidance here, getadrone. Got link?
godless heathen
December 16th, 2011
11:05 am
And since Dear Ruler asked the Iranians for the drone back (a report that aired on the TV networks that the rest of us watch) instead of denying it existed, I tend to think that the Iranians do in fact, have the dang thing. While I haven’t seen the thing with my own eyes, the entire rest of the intelligent world seems to believe that they have it, so I suspect that do.
But getalife don’t lie like cons.
getalife
December 16th, 2011
11:06 am
AmVet,
Have not heard that one.
Believe the Pentagon after Vietnam?
Seriously?
The funny thing about cons is they will believe just about everything they are told or read.
Paul
December 16th, 2011
11:06 am
Jay
at 00:36 Romney said “destroy it immediately.”
I interpret that to mean as soon as it went down, not after capture by Iranians, which is an entirely different situation.
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
11:06 am
getadrone has changed his story from “it’s fake” to “it’s destroyed” with no proof to back up either. Too funny.
AmVet - Just say no to the War Pigs.
December 16th, 2011
11:06 am
the entire rest of the intelligent world seems to believe that they have it, so I suspect that do.
Yep, that convinces me too, godless.
It’s stored in the building right next to the yellow cake uranium…
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
11:07 am
“The funny thing about cons is they will believe just about everything they are told or read.”
Kind of like that super secret link you read that said is was destroyed? The one that only you know of?
Mick
December 16th, 2011
11:08 am
Is this drone episode kind of being blown out of proportion? I think our military just might have been smart enough to have a contingency plan in case of an accident like this. There is probably no technology on that drone that can’t be had on the internets…
Hmmmmmmmmm
December 16th, 2011
11:08 am
Mary,
I’m not here to refute any of your data… Your kinda like my daughter, very young and idealistic… Naive is an understatement, but I don’t mean that as an insult… You like many others are lost in a sea of ideology.. It would be great if life were this simple… Here is hoping everyone has a Merry Christmas..
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
11:09 am
Oh geeze…AmVet’s a droner too.
What did the droner say to the birther? Who cares…they’re both idiots.
DawgDad
December 16th, 2011
11:09 am
Jay: Thanks for that link. Hadn’t seen that.
Yeah, talk is cheap, especially in a campaign, but I will say this to the people who seem to think destroying the drone would be “cowboy” or an act of war: If you make the decision to fly the drone in the first place you have to be willing to accept the risks and be prepared to deal with the down side. As it stands, it is quite fair (essential even) to question if the Administration was adequately prepared. If they weren’t, someone isn’t doing their job.
Jm
December 16th, 2011
11:09 am
Yellowcake
I prefer red velvet. I’m a con of course
The competent Granny Godzilla
December 16th, 2011
11:09 am
God Bless George W. Bush and hopefull the United States of America will FINALLY get a President who actually understands the economy……Go NEWT!!!!!! This country has had enough “CHANGE”
godless heathen
December 16th, 2011
11:09 am
Uh oh,
So AmVet, did you see on CNN that the Iranians don’t have a US drone, too? Or does the TV there at the home not get CNN?
Mick
December 16th, 2011
11:10 am
**What did the droner say to the birther? Who cares**
Good one…
getalife
December 16th, 2011
11:10 am
Paul,
I doubt willard has been briefed on the mission so they are flying blind and have no clue.
Erwin's cat
December 16th, 2011
11:11 am
wow…how did I end up in the Jay-getalife-AmVet camp today? Never saw that comin’
taters are done…gotta go for now
godless heathen
December 16th, 2011
11:11 am
Mick,
“There is probably no technology on that drone that can’t be had on the internets…”
Sure. Ask them if you can go look at one.
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
11:11 am
Still no link from getalife to back up his “it’s fake” or “it’s destroyed” claims.
AmVet - Just say no to the War Pigs.
December 16th, 2011
11:12 am
I know it is damn near impossible for you UGA types, but pea, please don’t be an idiot in public.
I’ve taken no position of the matter.
I leave it up to you know-it-alls to not only enlighten the rest of us, but to speak for us as well…
Normal
December 16th, 2011
11:12 am
The competent Granny Godzilla
December 16th, 2011
11:09 am
What a hoot!
Secretary of de Fence, Cain
December 16th, 2011
11:13 am
I think it would be helpful if you included more information when speaking of Iran. For instance, “I ran to work this morning” or “I ran in the Peachtree Road Race.”
getalife
December 16th, 2011
11:13 am
Pea,
Again CNN.
Google it
The competent Granny Godzilla
December 16th, 2011
11:13 am
God Bless George W. Bush and hopefull the United States of America will FINALLY get a President who actually understands the economy……Go NEWT!!!! This country has had enough “CHANGE”
Mick
December 16th, 2011
11:14 am
godless
Just pure conjecture, not intended to be factual. At least I can be honest about my opining…
Secretary of de Fence, Cain
December 16th, 2011
11:14 am
Still no link from getalife to back up his “it’s fake” or “it’s destroyed” claims.
Some links are like fences, there one minute and broke the next.
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
11:15 am
“Pea,
Again CNN.
Google it”
I’m not doing your homework for you, getadrone. YOU make the claim. YOU back it up with that superdy duper secret link that only you’ve seen that says the drone is destroyed.
Mick
December 16th, 2011
11:15 am
secretary
How’s about, I ran from iran?
getalife
December 16th, 2011
11:15 am
I want to see the drone’s birth certificate.
That drone is a Muslim, Socialist, Kenyan and made in Africa.
Redneck Convert (R---and proud of it
December 16th, 2011
11:15 am
Well, I hope these canadates get the war with Iran over with before little ______ Zell George is old enough to serve. I’ll be saving my Support Our Troops bumper stickers and use them then, now that the war in Iraq is over with. You know how Patriotic us rednecks are. Especially if it’s somebody else’s kid doing the fighting and dying.
Have a good Friday everybody. I’m out here hauling and lugging, trying to get you ready to swap weird music tonight.
Paul
December 16th, 2011
11:16 am
getalife
“I doubt willard has been briefed on the mission so they are flying blind and have no clue.”
As I said, speculation runs rampant.
I see it breaking down like this, assuming the drone was real.
1. It goes down in a remote area and we think Iranians have not become aware. An airstrike to destroy is a viable option.
2. It goes down and the area is not remote, and/or we think the Iranians are aware. Viability of an airstrike plummets.
3. Iranians recover drone. Airstrike/retrieval viability is nil.
AmVet - Just say no to the War Pigs.
December 16th, 2011
11:16 am
And poor heathen, he too must have gone to school in Athens.
As he also has grave and obvious difficulties with standard written English.
Either that or he can break his longstanding tradition of not being able to back up his absurd claims…
Jm
December 16th, 2011
11:16 am
What did the droner say to the birther?
“I bet Iran has obama’s birth certificate”
Jm
December 16th, 2011
11:19 am
Iranians and the Chinese are in cahoots folks
Btw, Persians are hot. Generally speaking
Tim H
December 16th, 2011
11:19 am
Jay is right. Obama’s policy of appeasement is working just fine. Why are the Republicans such hawks?
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
11:20 am
“of not being able to back up his absurd claims…”
Reminds me of getalife and his “it’s fake” and “it’s destroyed” claims. Still can’t provide a link….
getalife
December 16th, 2011
11:21 am
“The Iranians have a pile of rubble and are trying to figure what they have and what to do with it,” the senior U.S. official said. The drone crashed solely because its guidance system failed, the official said.
http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/06/downed-drone-was-on-cia-mission/
I can back up everything I say and have never lied on this blog.
Apologize Pea.
Now.
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
11:21 am
Off to lunch…be back sometime this afternoon.
I’ll check back for that link, getalife.
getalife
December 16th, 2011
11:22 am
Cut and run coward.
Man up and apologize.
godless heathen
December 16th, 2011
11:22 am
AmVet,
I can’t prove a negative. I’m saying that the whole world seems to believe that the Iranians have in their possession a downed US Drone. The whole world except for getalife and AmVet, that is.
I think it is up to the droners to back up their claim.
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
11:24 am
Ah, so “which apparently sustained significant damage” means “destroyed” to getalife.
Jm
December 16th, 2011
11:24 am
Apparently Obama was given three options to destroy the drone
He rejected all of them
Obama just gave our spy tech to china
Obama is the dumbest 1%er out there
Normal
December 16th, 2011
11:24 am
aybe this will help some…
http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/15/crashed-drone-was-looking-at-iran-nuclear-sites/?hpt=hp_bn4
..and I remember back when I used to fly romote controlled planes, they could be hijacked by using a transmitter on the same frequency away from the flight site but closer to the aircraft. They would quickly land it, stuff it in a car and drive off. One would think that the designers would have that possibility covered, but you never know…blttom line, it could be possible they took it.
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
11:25 am
“Man up and apologize.” – For what? Iran has it. Your link acknowledged that Iran has it. Again…”significant damage” does not equal “destroyed”. Tool.
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
11:26 am
getalife provided a link that says Iran has the drone.
Well it definitely ain’t fake like getalife claimed yesterday. Or destroyed.
What a tool.
getalife
December 16th, 2011
11:26 am
Apologize Pea.
Bow down to me.
Peadawg
December 16th, 2011
11:27 am
Off to lunch now for real.
Later, droner. Go hang out with a birther in the land of unicorns. Have fun.
Guy Incognito
December 16th, 2011
11:27 am
Mick
December 16th, 2011
11:15 am
secretary
How’s about, I ran from iran?
“Iran so far away.” -Flock o Seagulls
Mick
December 16th, 2011
11:27 am
jm
**Apparently Obama**
Yeah, let’s just run with that…loser talk.
Kamchak
December 16th, 2011
11:27 am
Tick…tick…tick….
Mary Elizabeth
December 16th, 2011
11:28 am
Welcome to the Occupation @ 10:17 and 10:35
(1) “What is authentically strong about caving yet again to Republicans on the modest tax raises on the high-earners in this latest farcical round of haggling in Washington?
By the way, why do you bend over backwards to defend a man who said “The free market is the greatest force for economic progress in human history“, as Obama did last week in Kansas.”
(2)”How many people can draw adoring crowds in Berlin or Cairo without speaking a word in those countries’ languages, not to mention not really having anything really profound to offer the people of those countries other than vague new age bromides.”
———————————————–
About # 1 above.
Welcom, I believe you are a purist. I am more of a left leaning pragmatist. I would have preferred single-payer when that game was being played out, but I realized what Obama was up against even to get Obamacare as it stands into law. Likewise, with what is going on this week in D.C., I am aware of what he can do – as opposed to what I would like for him to accomplish. The art of the “possible” in other words.
I, like Obama, believe that the free market is “the greatest force for economic progress in human history.” That is economic progress. That is not, however, progress in human rights or human achievements of the mind and spirit, although most impoverished persons, as impoverished nations, will want to survive physcially, and that means economically, before reaching higher evolution of a spiritual or humanitarian nature. I believe that we should have a modified capitalism in this nation – and perhaps even in much of the world, which balances the capitalistic economic engine with human rights such as spelled out in FDR’s Second Bill of Rights.
About #2 above, you paint Obama in caricature. I believe he connects with many in the world who share his evolved egalitarian consciousness. One has to be sensitive to what that means, and have the sensibility to understand it in others. It is quite the opposite of a “rock star’s” impact. Not that Obama compares with Mother Theresa, but she did not have to speak many words to understand her spirit. Obama’s words soar into the hearts of those who do understand because they come from deep within his spirit. My French cousin-in-law connected with Obama’s Cairo speech and understood him and praised him for he connected with his vision.
Contrary to what some may perceive, I support Obama because I believe as he does on many levels. It is as simple as that.
godless heathen
December 16th, 2011
11:29 am
Well enough of this trifling. I’m off to look for the parts on the Internets where I can build my own drone that can be flown autonomously over the ME from the comfort of my home.
AmVet, try to remain calm. I know you don’t like the fish, but they serve the fish every Friday. Just eat the mashed potatoes.
getalife
December 16th, 2011
11:29 am
I owned Pea.
What about you godless?
Want some more of this?
Jm
December 16th, 2011
11:30 am
Obama elected to ask for it back
Fat chance
What a damn moron Obama is
Maybe palin wouldve been better….
getalife
December 16th, 2011
11:30 am
Didn’t think so.
Cut and run godless.
I owned you too.
DawgDad
December 16th, 2011
11:32 am
Mary Elizabeth:
I watch FoxNews because my daily newspaper innundates me with leftist propaganda, from the AP news slant to the Editorial page (wherein “balanced views” has been redefined as left and not-quite-so-left), and because I turned off the MSM newscasts years ago (biased to a fault). Shep Smith does annoy me with his slightly left bias in presentation, and I don’t care for the in-your-face Hannity show-style. Otherwise, there’s plenty to like about a news channel that respects core conservative values and preferences, in lieu of openly disparaging or attacking them.
Jm
December 16th, 2011
11:33 am
Mick
See USA today
Mary Elizabeth
December 16th, 2011
11:34 am
Mick@11:01
GM
December 16th, 2011
11:34 am
Good old Mitt at least he was honest about all the companies that failed under his leadership, and all the people he layed off: \
This is who the people on the right are voting for, if elected he is going to put these same idiots who voted for him back in the unemployment line and say I told you laying off people is what business do, people around the world think rep Americans all the most dumbest idiots ever to elect anyone.
getalife
December 16th, 2011
11:35 am
Now, back to the topic.
The Falcons game was a blow out so I watched fox attack the newt.
If you fact check that debate you would see it was mostly lies.
Fact check on me will get you owned.
Jm
December 16th, 2011
11:38 am
Getalife keep droning
AmVet - Just say no to the War Pigs.
December 16th, 2011
11:39 am
heathen, when you want to be, which is fairly often, you are hopeless.
One last time, I’ve made ZERO claims that the Iranians do or don’t have a US drone. Otherwise you would produce such a claim.
Hello?
This isn’t rocket science. (LOL at bad jokes.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bMjUU972So
getalife
December 16th, 2011
11:41 am
jm,
Stop droning on about the drone.
Lets fact check the debate instead.
willard is a boring debater and our President will win all debates easily.
Paul
December 16th, 2011
11:42 am
getalife 11:21
that was the most complete account I’ve seen. Thanks.
Peter
December 16th, 2011
11:43 am
Do the Cons here have an idea how we pay for the Bush Wars ? NO..BUT let’s go and have more confrontations with the open check book.
Peter
December 16th, 2011
11:43 am
God Bless George W. Bush and hopefully the United States of America will FINALLY get a President who actually understands the economy.
Wow what did Newt do in Washington ?
Mary Elizabeth
December 16th, 2011
11:44 am
Hmmmmmmmmmm@11:08
“Mary,
I’m not here to refute any of your data… Your kinda like my daughter, very young and idealistic… Naive is an understatement, but I don’t mean that as an insult… You like many others are lost in a sea of ideology.. It would be great if life were this simple… Here is hoping everyone has a Merry Christmas..”
—————————————–
Well, let’s see, just to clear up the stereotypes. I just turned 69 years old. I have raised a child who is married and has a great career, and am now a widow of a good marriage of almost 28 years. I worked for 43 years straight up, and 35 of those years in education, some of it in educational leadership. I have lived in South Georgia, New York City, and Atlanta. I don’t identify with any of those places. I identify with my mind and spirit, which is unique, as is that of each person who blogs here. I think I have something to contribute, especially in the heart of the South, from my more liberal perspective. That is why I blog. In many places in the world, my views are considered mainstream.
Merry Christmas to you, also, Hmmmmmmm, and to everyone else who posts on or who reads this blog.
getalife
December 16th, 2011
11:44 am
Paul,
Perhaps you can help me out on newt;s attack on the courts.
Is it another case of being a sore loser after losing the case or does he have a point in eliminating courts he does not agree with?
I found it very bizarre.
Paul
December 16th, 2011
11:45 am
Peadawg
“, so “which apparently sustained significant damage” means “destroyed” to getalife.”
Ever talked to an insurance agent after a bad car crash?
Every community has their own language.
And it didn’t crash.
It experienced a rapid, uncontrolled impact with the terrain.
St Simons - we're on Island time
December 16th, 2011
11:45 am
I want to see a graph – of the shrill-ness of the troll-screeching over
time as it sucks more & more every day to be a Republican
& the world progresses fwd from the brink of the con clusterf*ery.
Misty Fyed
December 16th, 2011
11:47 am
We pay for wars by asking the Chinese to fund them. We assure them that out great grandkids won’t mind paying them back.
You know…The same way we pay for everything else.
Paul
December 16th, 2011
11:50 am
getalife
He said he didn’t like the 9th Circuit decision on “In God We Trust” (overturned by SCOTUS) and that began his campaign. But his criteria seems to be ‘judges who render unAmerican, unConstitutional decisions.”
Megan Kelly just didn’t let up. Newt does a pretty good job of earning the loony-tunes label.
Here’s the exchange:
http://www.2012presidentialelectionnews.com/
Click on the ‘advance to next segment’ button – the arrow with the vertical line, just to the right of the play button, four times and it’ll take you to Kelly’s questioning.
Misty Fyed
December 16th, 2011
11:51 am
Anyone who deals frequently with Judges would probably agree with Newt. No politician can compete with the ego of a Federal Judge. They need accounatility and a method of removal when they stop interpreting law and start ruling based on what they think the law should be.
Jay
December 16th, 2011
11:51 am
sheets, btw
godless heathen
December 16th, 2011
11:52 am
Normal,
“.and I remember back when I used to fly romote controlled planes, they could be hijacked by using a transmitter on the same frequency away from the flight site but closer to the aircraft. ”
We use 2.4 gHtz spread spectrum now. No more worries about channels and being “shot down” by radio intereference.
George Bush's IQ(-112)
December 16th, 2011
11:55 am
Jm – I think you have a crush on President Obama. Do you have a mancrush on President Obama?
Joseph
December 16th, 2011
12:00 pm
Lucky for the American people Jay people don’t take you or your ilk seriously when talking about national security. Your opinion really doesn’t matter… Begging Iran to give back the drone is certainly not the approach of a real leader. Hopefully next November we’ll get someone with at least half a spine…..
Mary Elizabeth
December 16th, 2011
12:08 pm
DawdDad@11:32
Not everything on FoxNEWS is “bad” and not everything on MSNBC is “good.” CNN is the more balanced network of the three. Please be aware that much of today’s conservative ideological agenda works against the best interests of the working/middle class but that agenda does enhance the wealth and power of the top few. Please watch “The Ed Show” on MSNBC, sometimes, and Ed Schultz will present charts and graphics to make this case for you to see for yourself.
P. S. I believe that everyone should be treated with respect, regardless of whether they share your views or not. Those on the Right or Left who do not practice respect of others end up hurting their own cause.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 16th, 2011
12:11 pm
Mary Elizabeth: I’ll respond to your points in turn, but first a quick reply to the following statement, which I think is the nub of the whole matter.
“Welcom, I believe you are a purist. I am more of a left leaning pragmatist. I would have preferred single-payer when that game was being played out, but I realized what Obama was up against even to get Obamacare as it stands into law.”
What, it seems to me, you’re failing to take into account is the deliberate deception practiced by Barack Obama, who had not the slightest intention of defending a public option in the health care debate. Instead, he merely led liberals down the primrose path, letting them think he wanted to do it because he needed their votes to get elected. But of course once elected he sided with those conservative Dems and blue dogs who opposed the PO at every step, finally quietly dropping the thing entirely from consideration without a peep of explanation.
So what does this mean?
What it means is that Obama uses the FICTION that he’s “up against it”, that he “has no choice”, that he faces an insanely unreasonable opposition and obstruction, etc. and that therefore liberals should be good, well-behaved little children and just be patient. The master can’t be expected to do any better – look at what he’s up against.
Well, I reject that and see Obama as largely being part of the problem we face.
Erwin's cat
December 16th, 2011
12:12 pm
Jay – “sheets, btw”:
——————————-
completely agree…
SherryB
December 16th, 2011
12:25 pm
“Ron Paul was the only one who demonstrated a lick of sense or restraint.” Absolutely. And Bachmann flat out lied and spewed propaganda instead of facts. I’d love to see you do a column on that . What we are witnessing is a “reality show” in the sense it is more geared to who can sound/look/spout-jingoism-to-the-max (”Golly gee, I’m a ‘goin’ to be like TEBOW for this country,” said Perry) …. the best to appeal to — frankly — what appears to be a dumbed down, non-reading, non-questiong population. Ron Paul, by the way, was mentioned once, last paragraph on the CNN news site re:the debate. Moreover, in general, he is described by “journalists” most often in terms of criticism of his hair, his fast delivery, his grandpa looks, silly cliched descriptions of the outer man — instead of digging to actually report and cover what he is saying and if it is or is not based on fact.
Dekalb comments
December 16th, 2011
12:42 pm
It is easy to stand on a stage and pontificate about tough you would be compared with someone else. It is something entirely different when you are actually responsible for making those tough decisions.
Preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons may not be possible despite the efforts of the world community. But if we are going to be successful it will not be by doing this alone. Russia is a key player in dealing with this issue and had we inserted troops into Iran to retrieve our spy drone that, under international law to which the U.S. is a signatory, was violating Iranian airspace, we would have lost any prospective support from Russia.
Destroying the drone by bombing would have been the only real option and, without any of us knowing the real facts, we don’t know how feasible that would be. Iran has sophisticated radar and had they identified where the drone went down they could have easily secured it out of bombing range within a few hours.
Again, easy to bluster on a stage but the realities are much more complex than these candidates are willing to publicly acknowledge. Maybe at least some of them are so stupid they don’t understand that. I suspect, however, they are just playing to the base.
Newtpewt
December 16th, 2011
12:46 pm
Here’s what the Neo-Cons have in store for us if the GOP is back in the WH: Key Questions asked by MASH character Col. Sherman Potter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NpIgQTeAD9c
Mary Elizabeth
December 16th, 2011
1:19 pm
Welcome to the Occupation@12:11
“What, it seems to me, you’re failing to take into account is the deliberate deception practiced by Barack Obama, who had not the slightest intention of defending a public option in the health care debate.”
———————————————————–
Welcome, you say that Obama practices a “deliberate deception” and you cast him as a somewhat malevolent and devious character. I don’t see that. I see that he well knew well in advance that the public option would in no way pass, based on the combination of the fears of the people today and the intransigent Republican Congress. Moreover, he knew that he could only afford to lose so much political “capital” on that “lost cause.” On the other hand, he did not speak against a public option because I believe he wants the nation to eventually evolve to recognizing the value of a public option delivery system, or at least a national private-public partnership of healthcare delivery, which contains a strong public option component. (Already, I am sure you have read, 2.5 million young people between the ages of 21 – 26 now have medical insurance who had not had it before, thanks to Obamacare.) His efforts and success regarding the national healthcare insurance plan is one example of how Obama keeps long-ranged goals on the horizon to be achieved through evolution of thought – and subsequent action – by gradients, instead of simply being achieved all at once, which is less likely to become immediate reality.
Likewise, Obama has tried to lead toward greater rights for gays and has accomplished much for gay rights even though some gays have been critical of his “not saying more or trying harder.” I see Obama as a left leaning, albeit sometimes centrist, pragmatist. I do not see him as a devious manipulator.
Common Sense
December 16th, 2011
1:32 pm
The military has a cool little device, that when placed on planes, trains or automobiles which carry secret information, can be detonated and literally melts the computer components carrying any information. What the Iranians have, is a shell of a drone which they could break down the parts to see how it flies if they want, but this is Iran. Don’t you think they already know this stuff? This is politics from Iran, pure and simple. Do you really want to start a war because they have a drone with no usful information? Really?
Tom Middleton
December 16th, 2011
6:34 pm
The Republicans are all about the 1%, Jay, and by now this should be as plain as the nose on Mitt Romney’s face.
Their economic policies have shown us this beyond doubt, but so have their security ones when we stop and think about them just a little.
The reason they’re so trigger happy is because they see themselves as having one job only (I mean, besides trying to destroy this centrist president), and that’s to grow and protect the enormous wealth of their political base.
But where does that leave the rest of us, besides nowhere good – the end result of their so-called “American Exceptionalism” that always favors their few.
We’re the ones who have to fight their unnecessary wars, Jay, not them, and it’s us, not them, who always pay the terrible price for their top-heavy economies when they collapse.
And then they have the audacity to accuse us of waging class warfare when we complain, like they want us to believe that it’s us, not them, causing all the problems. Amazing, isn’t it?
But keep these people in power and things will get better, as they would have us believe? For them, maybe, but not for us, and the sooner we realize that they don’t work for us and never will, the better off we will be ad infinitum – all of us this time, not just their chosen few!
Truth-O-Meter
December 17th, 2011
4:11 pm
Does JM have a job?! He had better not be one of those guys/gals using the boss’ time to post on this page when he/should be working. Oh, maybe he is a gvment employee. You know, the people for whom he has such disdain. Oh no, don’t tell me he is the boss!!!