U.S. military mission in Iraq is now officially at an end

A war that began with “shock and awe” — a war that never should have begun in the first place — ended much more quietly today.

From the Washington Post:

“BAGHDAD — Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta paid solemn tribute on Thursday to an “independent, free and sovereign Iraq” and declared the official end to the Iraq war, formally wrapping up the U.S. military’s 8-and-a- half-year mission in the country.

“After a lot of blood spilled by Iraqis and Americans, the mission of an Iraq that could govern and secure itself has become real,” Panetta said at a ceremony at Baghdad ‘s international airport. “To be sure, the cost was high – in blood and treasure for the United States, and for the Iraqi people. Those lives were not lost in vain. ”

The final U.S. death toll was 4,487, with roughly 4,000 of those fatalities occurring after the infamous “Mission Accomplished” speech. The last U.S. soldier to die in Iraq was David Emanuel Hickman, an Army specialist from Greensboro, N.C., killed Nov. 14 in an IED attack. Thirty thousand U.S. troops were wounded in the war.

More than 100,000 Iraqis have lost their lives as well, a death toll that will undoubtedly continue to grow as various factions in Iraq continue to battle for power. However, the fate of their country now lies with Iraqis, as it should and must.

– Jay Bookman

394 comments Add your comment

Adam

December 15th, 2011
7:58 am

Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. (NOT the other way around, cons)

Adam

December 15th, 2011
7:58 am

SOUTHERN ATL

December 15th, 2011
7:58 am

……A war that began with “shock and awe” — a war that never should have begun in the first place — ended much more quietly today.

Well said!! Our troops are finally coming home!!!

Normal

December 15th, 2011
7:59 am

YES!!! And thank the Great Spirit. The Karma is going to be heavy on the GOP for this debacle.

Welcome Home Troops, we have missed you!

Adam

December 15th, 2011
8:00 am

Something happened to the blog layout….

Mick

December 15th, 2011
8:01 am

All eyes are on iran, they are the new bogeyman, will we fall for it?

USinUK

December 15th, 2011
8:03 am

welcome home troops!!!

next up … Afghanistan …

(no blood for falafels!)

Granny Godzilla

December 15th, 2011
8:06 am

When Johnny comes marching home again
Hurrah! Hurrah!
We’ll give him a hearty welcome then
Hurrah! Hurrah!
The men will cheer and the boys will shout
The ladies they will all turn out
And we’ll all feel gay
When Johnny comes marching home.
The old church bell will peal with joy
Hurrah! Hurrah!
To welcome home our darling boy,
Hurrah! Hurrah!
The village lads and lassies say
With roses they will strew the way,
And we’ll all feel gay
When Johnny comes marching home.
Get ready for the Jubilee,
Hurrah! Hurrah!
We’ll give the hero three times three,
Hurrah! Hurrah!
The laurel wreath is ready now
To place upon his loyal brow
And we’ll all feel gay
When Johnny comes marching home.
Let love and friendship on that day,
Hurrah, hurrah!
Their choicest pleasures then display,
Hurrah, hurrah!
And let each one perform some part,
To fill with joy the warrior’s heart,
And we’ll all feel gay
When Johnny comes marching home.

It’s a proud day for us all.

godless heathen

December 15th, 2011
8:07 am

Yes Adam, Bush’s Surge (opposed by Obama) saved the day.

Jm

December 15th, 2011
8:07 am

Well Jay disagree with Leon Panetta

Agree to disagree jay

USinUK

December 15th, 2011
8:10 am

“Bush’s Surge (opposed by Obama) saved the day”

um, you realize the “surge” was nothing more than bribing the various factions not to shoot, don’t you …

Peadawg

December 15th, 2011
8:10 am

Thank you, Obama for following through with Bush’s deadline. Thanks goodness you didn’t get that extension that you tried to get.

Granny Godzilla

December 15th, 2011
8:12 am

godless heathen

I have always thought the question of the success or failure of the surge should be judged on it’s stated mission as illustrated by the 18 benchmarks.

how many were met?

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2011
8:12 am

Glad that we are finally done with that mess….. a war that never needed to be fought and cost this county so much.

Finn McCool

December 15th, 2011
8:12 am

What will the final $ tally be?

Vinny

December 15th, 2011
8:13 am

You are correct Jay – This war should have never begun in the first place. If radical MUSLIM terrorists had not killed 3,000 American civilians and if Sadam Hussein had not stockpiled weapons of mass destruction then it would not have been necessary. Unfortunately, there is evil in the world and it is up to good people to fight it. That is what we did, and we are all very proud of the troops that carried it out.

Call it like it is

December 15th, 2011
8:13 am

How about just a job well done to our troops and what they acomplished. Welcome home guys and gals.

cosby

December 15th, 2011
8:15 am

Hang in there..They are not coming home but being deployed to Africa….also, new troops, although not in the mass of the past, are being deployed to Iraq and Afganistan…..better keep a eye out on the situation over there as they may be right back in full force with an even worse situation. This is no more than a political ploy and you guys have grasp it hook, line and sinker….gee Jay do you homework or are you like Debbie W. Shultz…a puppet with no thoughts of your own.

Adam

December 15th, 2011
8:15 am

Well I’m glad we can all at least agree this was a victory, not a defeat.

Finn McCool

December 15th, 2011
8:15 am

Holder Signals Tough Review of New State Laws on Voting
The Justice Department vows to review the strict new voting laws.

http://www.truth-out.org/holder-signals-tough-review-new-state-laws-voting/1323871927

stands for decibels

December 15th, 2011
8:15 am

The last U.S. soldier to die in Iraq was David Emanuel Hickman, an Army specialist from Greensboro, N.C., killed Nov. 14 in an IED attack.

Thus we have the answer to this question.

Finn McCool

December 15th, 2011
8:16 am

Adam, what did we win exactly?

Granny Godzilla

December 15th, 2011
8:17 am

Finn

I see Holder called for “automatic” registration….very cool.

Finn McCool

December 15th, 2011
8:17 am

I guess Vinny was asleep the last 10 years? Stockpiles?

philosopher

December 15th, 2011
8:18 am

Well, said, Granny- the song will always bring tears to my eyes…so much loss and usually too little gain. God bless them all.

GM

December 15th, 2011
8:19 am

Thank God for a President that campaign and did what he said:
Yet you have a bunch of idiots like Cheney and his stupid daughter, and John MCcain taking shots at the President, what a bunch of losers, 4500 American troops dead and these Obama haters wants our troops to remain.
What a class President you did not see him board a aircraft and bragg on the mission, he said simply welcome home, he will go down dispite the haters and bigots of this country as the greatest president this countrty has ever seen.
If he were white President Obama and Eric Holder would be compared to JFK and Hoover that kept this country safe””””’

Jm

December 15th, 2011
8:20 am

Granny Godzilla

December 15th, 2011
8:21 am

philosoper…

my favorite part

“And let each one perform some part,
To fill with joy the warrior’s heart,”

godless heathen

December 15th, 2011
8:21 am

A successful war.

American troops have done in Iraq – all the fighting and dying; bleeding and building; training and partnering – has led us to this moment of success. Of course, Iraq is not a perfect place. But we are leaving behind a sovereign, stable, and self-reliant Iraq, with a representative government that was elected by its people. We are building a new partnership between our nations.

Granny Godzilla

December 15th, 2011
8:23 am

Finn

Iraq war, now winding down with US troop exit by December, has cost more than $800 billion so far. But ongoing medical treatment, replacement vehicles, etc., will push costs to $4 trillion or more.

From the Christian Science Monitor

Jm

December 15th, 2011
8:24 am

If Iraq crumbles or Iran invades, we will be right back in there.

This is why it is political grandstanding to an extent. But any President would be doing this. They might just be more honest with the public than Obama is.

carlosgvv

December 15th, 2011
8:24 am

There is at least an even chance that the coming years will show our soldiers died for nothing in Iraq, just as they did in Vietnam. I shudder to think thay someday someone will come up to me and tearfully say “what did my loved one die for in Iraq”. I think “truth, justice and the American way, would be the equivilent of a slap in the face.

Skip

December 15th, 2011
8:25 am

Does this mean the yellow ribbon guy is out of business or can we find someone new to invade?

Jm

December 15th, 2011
8:25 am

Granny. Too slow! :)

Talking Head

December 15th, 2011
8:27 am

We should take a break from trying to be the police of the world for a while.

USinUK

December 15th, 2011
8:27 am

“They might just be more honest with the public than Obama is.”

:lol:

right.

AAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyone else but Obama would be up there on the dais thanking servicemen and -women for their service, talking about their sacrifices and the loss of their friends, ending the speech with “watch this space”

puh-LEEZ

your ODS really does need medical attention

LeeH1

December 15th, 2011
8:27 am

I have always supported our troops 100% and have the bumper sticker saying so. But I only support them as long as it doesn’t mean raising my taxes!

Jm

December 15th, 2011
8:27 am

Glad it’s over. For now.

Jay

December 15th, 2011
8:27 am

Godless, I very much hope that time proves you right.

Granny Godzilla

December 15th, 2011
8:27 am

Jm

You gave fast.

I gave accurate.

Adam

December 15th, 2011
8:28 am

Finn: What would we win by staying?

Talking Head

December 15th, 2011
8:29 am

“There is at least an even chance that the coming years will show our soldiers died for nothing in Iraq, just as they did in Vietnam”

That’s your opinion, and I’m glad to say that I don’t share the same view as you!

JohnnyReb

December 15th, 2011
8:29 am

Sometimes, the Moonbat logic is hard to bare. Of course, I could stop visiting the oppostion but I don’t want to give up the fun, plus someone needs to try, with emphasis on try, to keep you between the ditches.

Jay and his loyal followers are about as blessed with the Monday morning quarterback syndrome as any I have ever seen. Bush, Iraq, bad. Obama, Afghanistan, good.

My parting thought is, Rush’s interview with Gretta last evening should be required viewing.

Bill Orvis White

December 15th, 2011
8:29 am

#1, Obama and Pancetta cut and ran. The general mission was to never be totally completed because it has been a centerpiece on the rightful Global War on Terror. Did you ever listen to the honorable U.S. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld + the honorable Speaker Newt Gingrich when they stated that we are in at least a 50-year fight on Islamic radicalism? Major combat operations successfully ended when the honorable President George W. Bush proclaimed this fact on 5-1-2003.

#2 Liberal Jay, you are wrong to say that We should never have gone into Iraq. We eradicated an evil dictator who gassed his people and saved millions of innocent peoples.

Conclusion: You are a naive secular progressive who loves dictators in the mold of Hussein, Khadaffy Duck, Castro and his buddy Chavez.

Merry Christmas and Amen,
Bill

USinUK

December 15th, 2011
8:30 am

Talking Head – 8:27 –

I’ll not just give a big AMEN to that, I’ll give you a TESTIFY

unfortunately, that’s what one does when one is a superpower.

SOUTHERN ATL

December 15th, 2011
8:30 am

Iraq war cost $1 trillion

Dollars could have helped the U.S. economy!!!

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/cost-iraq-war

Finn McCool

December 15th, 2011
8:30 am

Yay! We dismantled the Sunni leadership in Iraq allowing the Shia’s to take control! Yay!

Hey Iran (Shia), we will get rid of your sworn enemy and hand Iraq over to you. Aren’t we swell?

godless heathen

December 15th, 2011
8:31 am

USinUK revising history again.

[The Surge] was announced in January 2007 by Bush during a television speech.[2][3] Bush ordered the deployment of more than 20,000 soldiers into Iraq, five additional brigades, and sent the majority of them into Baghdad.[2] He also extended the tour of most of the Army troops in country and some of the Marines already in the Anbar Province area.[2] The President described the overall objective as establishing a “…unified, democratic federal Iraq that can govern itself, defend itself, and sustain itself, and is an ally in the War on Terror.”[3] The major element of the strategy was a change in focus for the US military “to help Iraqis clear and secure neighborhoods, to help them protect the local population, and to help ensure that the Iraqi forces left behind are capable of providing the security”.[2] The President stated that the surge would then provide the time and conditions conducive to reconciliation among political and ethnic factions.[3]

USinUK

December 15th, 2011
8:31 am

“the honorable ”

I do not think this word means what you think it means …

independent thinker

December 15th, 2011
8:31 am

A little history to put his event in context.
Under Saint Ronnie, Sadaam was our bad boy beating the crap out of those crazy Iranians , A chemical executive named Rumsfeld was Ronnie’s emissary. I beleieve the US even sold him chemical weapons if I recall. When Israel had the cahones to wipe out his nuclear reactor, Saint Ronnie condemned Israel. When Iraq invaded Kuwait , our abassador said we would not get involved. Daddy Bush with a defense secretary named Cheney rode to the rescue witth an international coalition and kicked Sadaam’s butt to save those hold oil fields in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia . However our military got cold feet to finish the job leaving Sadaam in power and beat the crap out of the Shiite majority and the Kurds. We used this as an excuse to overstay our welcome in Saudi Arabia and create a passive war by creating no fly zones over Iraq, This essentially became a twenty year war that ended yesterday,
Our extended stay in Saudi Arabia courtesy of Daddy Bush’s passivity led up to 18 Saudi radicals killing over 3000 Americans on 9-11. Our occupation of that country ended when we invaded Iraq under Bush Jr. who created a never ending civil war for which he declared ” Mision Accomplished ” while we lost over 4,0000 souls and over a trillion dollars. Yesterday Obama who opposed the war and promised to end it saluted our troops for doing their job despite the absurdity of the history of the mission, That pompous jacjkass Rush Limbaugh then went on the air and condemned Obama but not his predecessors -go figure!

Granny Godzilla

December 15th, 2011
8:33 am

godless heathen

how many of the 18 benchmarks set for the Iraqi surge were met?

USinUK

December 15th, 2011
8:33 am

philosopher

December 15th, 2011
8:34 am

Same here, Granny- that sentiment should remain throughout the soldier’s life, too. It’s just too cruel to have them face the atrocities of war with such courage…and face being disabled, disenfranchised, jobless, homeless, and sick…right here at home!

Jm

December 15th, 2011
8:35 am

Yeah Granny. I was inaccurate and lied. Again. Such is Wonderland.

If a liberal says something, it must be true. If someone else says it, it must be inaccurate and a lie. Go figure.

Senior Citizen Kane

December 15th, 2011
8:35 am

Talking Head: ‘We should take a break from trying to be the police of the world for a while.’

That’s the exact approach France and England took in dealing with Hitler in 1936. How’d that work out for them?

bob

December 15th, 2011
8:36 am

Normal, if the Karma is heavy for the GOP on Iraq, how is the Karma on dems for Vietnam or Korea ?
I guess that question was out of line, history starts with the last bad thing the GOP does and ignores the rest. But just a small little fact, GOP’s Karma grabber got about 100,000 less Americans killed than the dems wars against those that never attacked us. That is why we do not learn from our mistakes because it is human nature to think the other side does al the bad things. The party that gave us John Edwards now wants to place value on wedding vows and tells us Herman Cain had an affair and that is bad.

godless heathen

December 15th, 2011
8:36 am

Enough, Granny, enough. Enough for the war to have been a success.

godless heathen

December 15th, 2011
8:37 am

Spin v. facts, USinUK.

Jm

December 15th, 2011
8:37 am

“disenfranchised, jobless, homeless”

Would be less likely if Obama would get his head screwed on straight and stopped killing jobs….

Finn McCool

December 15th, 2011
8:38 am

The surge was a bribe to insurgents to stop shooting our troops. That’s like Eisenhower paying money to Adolph to slow his roll through the Ardennes.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2011
8:39 am

USinUK…. You mean Billy is not using the “Honorable” title like Marcus’s words in a Shakespeare play?

Granny Godzilla

December 15th, 2011
8:40 am

Jm

Admitting it is the first step to cure.

Heathen

No, it’s not enough to just win the war. It’s only enough when we are
safe from repeating that stupidity.

bob

You were against WWII? You a commie?

USinUK

December 15th, 2011
8:40 am

godless – exactly my point

spin = “all those troops stopped the bad men”

fact = it’s all about the money, money, money …

USinUK

December 15th, 2011
8:41 am

“Would be less likely if Obama would get his head screwed on straight and stopped killing jobs….”

we’ve had job GROWTH for nearly every month in the last 2 years …

growth

not decline

nice try …

meds … you need ‘em

Normal

December 15th, 2011
8:42 am

Don’t you just love the way Bill Orvis White spews his hateful oral garbage and ends with “Merry Christmas and “amen”?

Bill Orvis White…The poster child on why to be a Pagan… :lol:

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

December 15th, 2011
8:43 am

Does this mean I should take the Support Our Troops ribbons off of my pickup?

Senior Citizen Kane

December 15th, 2011
8:43 am

Granny: How was Bob against WWII?

Normal

December 15th, 2011
8:44 am

jm,
How much DO you get for spuouting that nonsense?

Bill Orvis White

December 15th, 2011
8:44 am

@independent thinker

Nice try at re-writing our history and spreading flat-out lies. We went in and saved the innocent peoples of Kuwait and beat back evildoer Saddam under UN Resolution 678. The honorable Pres. George HW Bush followed the constructs as outlined in that UN Resolution. Mr. Bush did have to work with the anti-Semitic UN, but he has been and still is, a man of integrity and principle. Once Saddam was beat back, he went hog wild during the Bubba Clinton years. As that failure of a president had his pants around his ankles in the Oval Office for eight long dreadful years, Saddam was building his cache of biological and nuclear weapons of mass destruction. The honorable Pres. GW Bush had to go in and clean up Bubba Clinton’s lack of leadership on the deal. I’m now more convinced that if there was no Bubba Clinton, We would not have had to go back into Iraq. Instead, Pres. George HW Bush and what should have been his successor, President Dole would have stopped Saddam and the twin towers would have still been standing! I not only know these facts to be true, but I have millions of people who agree with me on those facts including Mr. Limbaugh and Mr. Boortz.
Merry Christmas and Amen,
Bill

USNC

December 15th, 2011
8:45 am

The US wins another and is #1, just like the GA Bulldawgs.

GO DAWGS!!!!!!!

Adam

December 15th, 2011
8:45 am

Jm: Would be less likely if Obama would get his head screwed on straight and stopped killing jobs….

I agree. Obama should stop freezing federal employee pay and stop cutting federal jobs.

USinUK

December 15th, 2011
8:45 am

“Bill Orvis White…The poster child on why to be a Pagan”

more like: Bill Orvis White … The poster child for Ghandi’s quote, “I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.”

stands for decibels

December 15th, 2011
8:46 am

What’s important is, Little Tommy Friedman was able to tell Iraqi citizens to Suck on This.

godless heathen

December 15th, 2011
8:46 am

However you want to spin The Surge, you can’t deny that it worked and the current President loudly opposed it. Had his view prevailed, the events of yesterday would not have been taking place.

Jm

December 15th, 2011
8:47 am

Jon Corzine is an embarrassment to America

Granny Godzilla

December 15th, 2011
8:48 am

godless

enough? really?

how many of the 18 benchmarks for the Iraqi surge were met?

no spin toots.

stands for decibels

December 15th, 2011
8:49 am

how is the Karma on dems for Vietnam

Well, you might want to get in the WABAC machine and set it to 1968 and ask LBJ what karma is like. He’d give you an earful, I’m sure.

Adam

December 15th, 2011
8:49 am

AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION.
The Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 – Signed Unanimously by Congress

http://www.examiner.com/humanist-in-national/atheist-billboard-refutes-notion-u-s-founded-on-christian-religion

OH SNAP. What’s that? Christian Nation? I think not.

Jm

December 15th, 2011
8:49 am

Obama withdrew his veto threat on the US citizen military detention issue (see politico)

Jay. You going to write a follow up when Obama signs the defense bill?

Soothsayer

December 15th, 2011
8:50 am

Maybe some “superpower” will invade the United States of America and fix what’s wrong with our country. Wouldn’t that be nice.

They could start by wresting control of our government from corporations.

Then, the could rebuild all of the factories that have been shipped to China and Vietnam (remember Vietnam — that’s where 50,000 men died — now they take our jobs).

After that, they could close our borders to cheap imports and revive manufacturing in this country.

Finally, they could rebuild our infrastructure so’s we don’t have to spend our own good money doing it.

Sounds like a good deal to me.

TaxPayer

December 15th, 2011
8:50 am

JohnnyReb listens to Rush. That explains a lot.

stands for decibels

December 15th, 2011
8:50 am

Had his view prevailed, the events of yesterday would not have been taking place.

Right. We’ve have been leaving earlier if Pelosi’s congress had some balls and defunded this cluster foxtrot.

Generation$crewed

December 15th, 2011
8:51 am

Not much was gained from this war. Sure an evil dictator was removed from power, but not much else.

GWB got to wear a cool flight suit.

Not sure if any of that equals the loss of 4487 of our sons and daughters, brothers and sisters.

Now how long until we get out of Afghanistan?

What is the mission of the afghan war?

What goals are set for the Afghan war?

There are alot of countries that harbour terrorist, and we are not at war with each of them.

i guess I am just confused as to why so many were against Iraq war, yet little is mentioned about Afghan war, and it seems as if the goals are just as unclear.

Talking Head

December 15th, 2011
8:51 am

“That’s the exact approach France and England took in dealing with Hitler in 1936. How’d that work out for them?”

I wasn’t aware that the French and the British were the world’s superpowers back in the 1930’s. Regardless, war with Hitler was inevitable.

USinUK

December 15th, 2011
8:52 am

“Had his view prevailed, the events of yesterday would not have been taking place.”

really???

and you can prove this by the news coverage from a parallel universe where the surge didn’t happen and Iraq is in flames???

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2011
8:52 am

billy White: I have millions of people who agree with me on those facts including Mr. Limbaugh and Mr. Boortz.

And with this we know that the great comedic posts coming from Bill are truly the doomed cartoonish efforts of bleating sheep followers of the most clownish of the right.

Funny how Clinton has his pants around his ankles and yet Billy embraces the “honorable” :lol: Newt who was doing the same thing in his car and other places.

Jm

December 15th, 2011
8:53 am

No payroll tax cut bill in the senate yet

Reid is a moron

Bill Orvis White

December 15th, 2011
8:53 am

@godless heathen

Thank you honorable President George W. Bush for your hard work and determination despite unpatriotic socialistic “Americans” and members of the “world community” who violently opposed your rightful decisions.

Thank the Lord Almighty for the brave men who performed a solid job and proved their love of God and country. Without these members of the volunteer military, we would all be speaking Arabic right now.

Merry Christmas and Amen,
Bill

Adam

December 15th, 2011
8:54 am

The bill no longer authorizes the indefinite military detention of Americans captured in the US. That authority was removed from the Senate bill by a compromise amendment that stated nothing in the bill was intended to change existing authority on detention. While Senators such as Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC) argue that the president already has the authority to do so based on the 2004 Supreme Court decision Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, that case involved an American captured in Afghanistan. The Supreme Court has not yet weighed in on the constitutionality of indefinite military detention of Americans suspected of terrorism who are apprehended in the US.

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/12/five-things-know-about-detention-defense-bill

Bill Orvis White

December 15th, 2011
8:55 am

@Keep Up the Good Fight!

I’m a broken record: Speaker Gingrich found God, free markets and Jim Nabors Christmas records.

Merry Christmas and Amen,
Bill

Paul

December 15th, 2011
8:56 am

It’s an imperfect end to an imperfect war, now in the hands of an imperfect people and country.

But it’s their country. Hope they do well with it.

Regarding all the predictable comments that are replays of arguments of why we should not get out of South Vietnam – we could stay there 20 more year and say we’re leaving and we’d still hear those same arguments. These comments must be made by people who want their kids to live at home until they’re 40 because the world’s a difficult place.

Or maybe they’re made by 40-year-old kids still living at home who don’t want to leave because the world’s a difficult place?

Mick – good comment up above. Reminds me of Gorbachev to Reagan at the end of the Cold War: “We are going to do something terrible to you – we are going to deprive you of an enemy.”

Sure, there are a lot of bad guys out there working in direct opposition to American interests. But we don’t have to treat them all as if they are capable of ending us.

Jm

December 15th, 2011
8:56 am

White house asked congress to pass more temporary spending bills instead of a real full annual authorization

Obama is a rube

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2011
8:57 am

Without these members of the volunteer military, we would all be speaking Arabic right now

Billy, I know this is like asking you to prove the existence of Santa Claus as a real person, but you got any evidence to show us all how the War in Iraq saved us from the Taliban and AQ in Afghanistan and their plan to actually take over the entire US? Or do I have to wait for it to come out as a bad espisode of some alternative reality on SyFy channel?

Normal

December 15th, 2011
8:57 am

Bob,
As a Vietnam Veteran, I think it is safe to say that the karma was paid. After all, it took Nixon nearly two terms to end the war on the promise he made while running for President his first time.
As for Korea, history tells us that Truman gave support (after all, we were sneak attacked again, this time by the KNA) to the South Koreans, but it was Eisenhower who ultimately decided to prosecute that war, correct?

Since you evidently don’t know me, let me state that I, a combat veteran, have found nothing more stupid a human endeavor than war. It is truly the incompetents last refuge, and to start a war, whatever war, on false promise, such as the Tonkin Gulf Insident or the Nigerian yellow Cake scam, is not only a crime against mankind but is a crime against the cosmos. Any clearer now?

stands for decibels

December 15th, 2011
8:57 am

While Senators such as Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC) argue that the president already has the authority to do so

I wish those two would get a room and give auto-erotic asphyxiation a try or three.

Generation$crewed

December 15th, 2011
8:58 am

Redneck Convert (R–and proud of it)

December 15th, 2011
8:43 am

No we still have troops in a war in afghanistan.

I know it seems people forget about that war….. or maybe they just b*tch less about that one.

Misty Fyed

December 15th, 2011
8:58 am

Over 4000 dead Americans, 30,000 injured. Families ruined. Billions spent. The middle east is worse than before. Just what has changed in America? What made it worth that cost?

I hope GW thinks about that every night.

Here is my plan… Anytime a President commits troops for more than 6 months, a mandatory draft goes into effect. No exclusions for college; No National Guard exemption unless you are already in it. No way around it. If the average citizenry had to pay the price with their own families maybe we’d be less tolerant of some politician playing God.

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 15th, 2011
8:59 am

Bill, I am sure Newt found “God” a few times while in that car with some woman’s head bobbing up and down. :lol:

godless heathen

December 15th, 2011
8:59 am

More than enough for it to have been a success, Granny.

Senior Citizen Kane

December 15th, 2011
9:01 am

Talking Head: Maybe you should be more aware. France and England had the most powerful armies in Europe in 1936, even though England had been letting hers slip since WWI. France alone could have expelled Germany from the Rhineland in a matter of hours (according to Hitler’s own generals) and a disgraced Fuhrer would have been but a footnote in history. But England and France, gripped by pacifist fervor, refused to act. And the rest, unfortunately, is history.