The Keystone pipeline will NOT create 20,000 new jobs

but, but, OBAMA!

• Link
• Report this comment

Aw shucks Jay – there you go ’spoutin’ facts again!

• Link
• Report this comment

What you wanna bet you could turn on Fox News right now and they would be telling the flock about the 20,000 + jobs this would have created etc etc.

Sad

• Link
• Report this comment

Will it kill trucker and railroad jobs?

How many full time jobs will it create after it is built? Five?

Pass the infrastructure job bill corrupt congress and end your insider trading cantor.

• Link
• Report this comment

A dim bulb over at Wingfields’ thought TransCanada’s pipeline will reduce our dependency on “foreign oil.”

That’s what we’re dealing with, folks, expect construction to start soon.

• Link
• Report this comment

Aquagirl,

“A dim bulb over at Wingfields’ thought TransCanada’s pipeline will reduce our dependency on “foreign oil.”

Maybe they just meant from those scurrilous Arab types of foreign oil producers.

• Link
• Report this comment

More corporate welfare and corrupt congress can inside trade on the deal.

Kill it like cantor killed the insider trading bill.

• Link
• Report this comment

Thulsa Doom,

“And oh btw I will take the word of the actual company itself that actually does this work as opposed to some study done by a university that isn’t even directly involved in the project”

Yeah…why would the company have any reason to inflate the number?

• Link
• Report this comment

“Maybe they just meant from those scurrilous Arab types of foreign oil producers”

Pity we can’t convince them it’s all been a mistake, and it’s really MEXICAN oil. Be interesting to see if they’d still say the same thing!

• Link
• Report this comment

OH SNAP. Where’s JohnnyReb?

• Link
• Report this comment

Well, if we can get Canadian oil moving thru that pipeline and then sell the oil overseas, pretty soon other countries will be swimming in oil and Canada can just buy us out so we won’t need to worry about the debt. Heck, those foreign countries will have so much they’ll probly want to give it to us just to get rid of it. I can’t hardly wait till I drive my Ford F-450 up to a gas pump and get a fill-up for maybe $1.25. And who gives a flying flip if those folks in Nebraska have to pay to import water when theirs gets polluted? You got to break some eggs to get real mayonaise.

Have a good p.m. everybody.

• Link
• Report this comment

I would ask where the attention wh*re is but I’m just glad he hasn’t seen this yet and poisoned it with “You’re wrong Jay!” In an effort to get Jay to respond.

• Link
• Report this comment

Paul Brounshirt,

” What do you people have against America? What do you have against capitalism?”

Are you talking to Republicans?

• Link
• Report this comment

jewcowboy,

And Iran has what relevance to my point? Exactly. None.

• Link
• Report this comment

Thulsa Doom,

“BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHA.”

Yeah…accidents never happen. Just ask my family who live on Orange Beach and Pensacola Beach.

• Link
• Report this comment

Butch: No one here knows the answer to that. In fact, I suspect the industry itself has a decades old “plan” for dealing with it that says we should save the whales and call dead people in an emergency (oh wait, that’s deep water drilling, sorry).

• Link
• Report this comment

Jay: let’s at least be honest about what we’re dealing with here.

Oh, you mean lying politicians and deceptive research results?

I thought that was a given. LOL

• Link
• Report this comment

Thulsa Doom,

“And Iran has what relevance to my point? Exactly. None.”

You are the one that stated you believe the entity providing the facts over an independent review simply because the entity providing the facts are the ones “that actually does this work”. Well…Iran is providing the facts and they are the ones “that actually does this work.”

• Link
• Report this comment

p.s. to all of you “endanger the aquifer” libtards, have a look at these maps:

oil pipelines:
http://www.pipeline101.com/Overview/crude-pl.html
aquifers:
http://www.classzone.com/books/earth_science/terc/content/investigations/es1406/es1406page10.cfm

You will see that oil pipelines have ALREADY run over MANY aquifers for decades. You tree hugger libtards have a baseless argument

• Link
• Report this comment

Butch Cassidy

December 14th, 2011
12:39 pm
Okay, I’ll compromise. I’ll fully support the the building of the pipeline if someone can explain to me how to clean up an underground aquifer should a leak occur in that area

I’ll compromise also. Just as someone shows me a link of where massive pipeline spills here in North America have ruined large municipal water supplies. I did read in my wiki link about 2 whole acres being polluted in an Alaskan pipeline leak.

I defer to wiki- “Pipeline networks are the most economic and safest pipeline transport for mineral oil, gases and other fluid products. As a means of long-distance transport, pipelines have to fulfill high demands of safety, reliability and efficiency.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leak_Detection

• Link
• Report this comment

And what’s the promotion of a Canadian-owned pipeline that brings oil from Chinese-owned tar sands in Canada to refineries in Texas got to do with extending payroll tax cuts for a hundred million working Americans and unemployment benefits for several million desperate Americans?

Why does Congress need to get involved with the project anyhow? Are they going to subsidize it? Wouldn’t we be better off fixing some of the fuel wasting bottlenecks on the interstate highways instead of promoting a pipeline to contaminate the aquifer supporting our major agricultural area?

Why not enact urgently needed legislation now, and quarrel over pipeline projects next year?

• Link
• Report this comment

Hello, Jm, how ’bout those 20000-100000 jobs you were saying were “in the paper, don’t you read?” comment!

BWAAAAAAH!

• Link
• Report this comment

Paul: I’m talking about the socialist leader in chief and his ilk and minions

Wow. Just a few more Soros and Solyndra references and every single person here would get a bingo all at once!

• Link
• Report this comment

I got it!!!!

20,000 jobs WILL be created! Because 10,000 are needed for quality control inspection of pipeline leaks, 5,000 managers of those quality leaky people, and 5,000 more to actually fix / prevent leaks.

Because an actual leak would cost a lot more than prevention of the leak.

• Link
• Report this comment

I honestly don’t care if it only creates one job Jay. It won’t cost tax payers a dime!!!!! Thats the liberal logic for you though…. If it don’t fit your beliefs that the government needs to have a heavy hand in it you have to be against it….

• Link
• Report this comment

Counting jobs is ALWAYS the wrong thing to judge any project by. The measure is “what does it cost us” vs. “what do we get” and how does it compare to the alternatives. Counting “jobs” is just political silliness.

• Link
• Report this comment

Glenn Beck is estimating 500,000 jobs will be created…

• Link
• Report this comment

“The rest of the story: This report was produced for The Heritage Foundation. There’s your sign. Oy!”

So let me get this straight: are you saying that nothing produced by conservatives for the Heritage Foundation is accurate or truthful? Let’s get down to brass tacks: the author asserts that, in fact, more than a handful of illegal immigrants are voting. Is that true or not? If not, what evidence do you have for denying his claim? If it is true, is that not a problem in your view?

• Link
• Report this comment

Thulsa Doom,

“Just as someone shows me a link of where massive pipeline spills here in North America have ruined large municipal water supplies.”

An offshore oil platforms are so far out there is no way a leak on one could impact the beaches of the US.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jay, I stated facts. Obama is on the ropes on this. If he goes along, he loses the treehugger base. If he rejects it, the majority of voters will agree he truly is not for jobs or lowering energy prices.

I don’t believe I am wrong in stating you support Obama; you prove that everyday. You write an article based on one study from a bunch of college kids and believe it correct.

• Link
• Report this comment

…are you saying that nothing produced by conservatives for the Heritage Foundation is accurate or truthful?

Thirty years of talk-radio vilifying the “liberal media” as biased, and now that it’s your ox being gored, you are crying foul?

Welcome to my world.

• Link
• Report this comment

Butch Cassidy: “Exactly! We also had 6 year olds working in factories, 7 day work weeks, women forbidden to vote, “Whites Only” signs for public places and public approved lynchings of colored folks”

I know I know, that’s what I’m trying to say. All these communists want to make us forget just how good things were. It’s just wronggg.

• Link
• Report this comment

Always… always…. always…. question the methodology.

In this case, it’s sorely lacking.

’sides which, it’s Canadian oil… socialist oil…. you’d think Republicans would be afraid of catching the socialism. Next thing you know, they’ll want to import Canadian healthcare.

• Link
• Report this comment

I never said the 20k number. In fact, the number will be higher, but they won’t all be direct construction jobs, they’ll be support jobs, trickle down jobs, etc. And anything that lowers our dependence on middle east oil is going to help in myriad other ways that are less easy to quantify. As far as Chinese investors… Sure, they’ll get some of the profit… But we could let Canada build the pipline to their west coast for China instead… And then the Chinese investors will not only get almost all the profit, but they’ll get the oil, too.

I know, let’s take everything of value on our continent, and ship it to China. That’ll help our economy!

That’s what Obama and Jay seem to think, anyway.

• Link
• Report this comment

It won’t cost tax payers a dime!!!!!

And the BP oil rig explosion didn’t cost us anything, right?

Uh…. no.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jimmy62: “Trickle down” jobs don’t exist, unless you’re referring to janitors cleaning up the trickle left in bathrooms.

• Link
• Report this comment

St Simons:

• Link
• Report this comment

Tagging on to Joseph’s 12:52. If the pipeline is bust, it won’t cost taxpayers. And, do you really think the company would build it if they did not see a profit? If the pipeline is not build, Canada will sell the oil to China. Their prime minister has told Obama that very thing. No, delaying the pipeline is purely political backed by those who believe all oil is evil and that our salvation will be in green energy.

• Link
• Report this comment

So some group did not like the original estimates and they take a ‘part’ (large part? small part? just the name of the report?) of the original ‘important data behind the estimate’ and produce something that greatly differs from the original estimate.

Jay wrote:
“However, the Perryman Group has refused to release important data behind its estimate, claiming it to be proprietary information. The folks at Cornell nevertheless took what data Perryman did make available and found several major, fundamental flaws in its approach.”

Now we have the loonily left touting the report as gospel! So with admittedly only some part of the information they came up with the whole truth and the only truth. While those with all of the important data came to the wrong conclusion.

SMH in amazement!!

• Link
• Report this comment

Sorry, Jay. You’re wrong. I spent the last 4 years constructing the original Keystone pipeline, and I can attest to the original 20K figure. You see, it’s not simply “construction workers” that this project employs. A pipeline is a virtual “conduit of prosperity” everywhere it travels through. You really just don’t seem to understand the scope of opportunities that are created when a line is constructed. Along with your basic construction trades, you have all the new utilities that have to be laid. Everything has to be inspected and approved. Countless checks and rechecks to ensure that 50 years from now, things will still be running smoothly. You have the new vehicles purchased for the project (usually local). You have the “service” end of the equasion. How many service jobs are created with an influx of 500-600 people moving in to work? The hardware store owner that has to stay open 16 hrs a day to meet the demand of essential construction supplies. The restraunts that now have a lunch crowd of 200 instead of 50. The tire shop that has to add employees, just to keep up with demand. The auto mechanics that have 20 trucks waiting for service. Your article sounds like you have never had the opportunity to work on one of these massive projects, mores the pity. Those of us that do this for a living know the truth about the positive growth and impact that only a project of this scale can create. Maybe you should stick with what you know best, sitting behind a desk, postulating about unimportant things. Leave the important issues to those with experience.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Because it’s not about the questions, it’s about The Heritage Foundation.”

I asked those questions. If you decline to answer them, there is not a person here who won’t conclude (since you have time to otherwise respond) that you are evading the issue of whether or not there is a problem that needs to be solved. You can yammer on all you want about the Heritage Foundation, but you are merely throwing out a red herring.

• Link
• Report this comment

Wow! A report from Cornell University Global Labor Institute, which in turn is funded by the taxpayers of New York. Any chance something called Global Labor Institute may have an agenda? I’ll bet Jay is working hard to find another college student study contradicting this one. Right?

• Link
• Report this comment

…but you are merely throwing out a red herring.

Which is the entire raison d’être for thirty years of talk-radio.

Again — welcome to my world.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jason – “Sorry, Jay. You’re wrong. I spent the last 4 years constructing the original Keystone pipeline,”

Hey Jason, I’ve spent a lot of time in the Williston Basin area and have a lot of friends in the Oil and Gas business. Where were you working on the pipeline and what were you doing?

• Link
• Report this comment

And how are they presently being enforced?

There’s instances of legal permanent residents losing their status and/or being fined for voting in fed elections. I’ve seen deportations and entry refusals based on voting records and/or registration. YOU probably have not seen or heard of such things because that gets little media attention. However, I actually work in immigration and see those things happening.

• Link
• Report this comment

ByteMe

December 14th, 2011
1:00 pm
You want your pipeline spills data?

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/09/09/business/energy-environment/pipeline-spills.html

“More than 110 million gallons so far in the US alone.

Perspective comes with hard data.”

Byte Me,

I’ll ask it again. How many municipal water supplies systems have been ruined by pipeline leaks?Sheesh.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we collectively spilt more gas at gas pumps every year then is leaked by oil pipelines. Criminy.

• Link
• Report this comment

Thulsa Doom – “I wouldn’t be surprised if we collectively spilt more gas at gas pumps every year then is leaked by oil pipelines”

Perhaps, but how many gas stations have we built directly above a natural water basin?

• Link
• Report this comment

As to reading the article, I breezed through it, but nowhere did I see the author mention that it is not illegal for non-citizens to register to vote in state or local elections, where it is authorized. The fact that he fails to mention that suggests that either he’s trying to push a biased opinion or he’s ignorant of actual law. I’m willing to go with the former as the paper was produced for the Heritage Foundation. I’ve read enough of their immigration stuff to know that they are NOT looking for unbiased discussion.

• Link
• Report this comment

Gee, jewcowboy, I thought you were sharper than that. Try this – the report is an attempt to mollify unions with the premise there would not be 20,000 jobs in order to protect Obama’s azz.

• Link
• Report this comment

Global labor institute. No kook far left bias there huh?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAH!

• Link
• Report this comment

“I have no idea as I am not an election official. I have no proof that it’s true, and I have no proof that it’s false. Until there’s proof that it’s in violation of current law, it’s not a problem at all in my eyes.”

The author of the article offers some proof. What research have you done? Do you think it likely or unlikely that illegals are voting?

“Currently, I think that all elections are nothing but a charade that allows those with money to continue to exert their control over the government. They’re all shams. Whether they’re important or not is moot as long as they don’t mean sh*t.”

Then why even engage me in debate over this issue? It makes no sense if that is really how you feel.

“You should cut back on your rhetoric intake. That will clear up confusion that you’re obviously experiencing.”

Unnecessary ad hominem statements. They prove nothing.

“As far as being right, yep, I think it is right to allow permanent residents a vote in local elections because they own homes and pay property taxes. They should be allowed to vote for the jackasses that will determine how their tax dollars are spent.”

But the majority decides of course.

“Enact legislation to do that. All one has to do is produce evidence of citizenship OR legal permanent residence status when registering to vote. It’s not hard to do that.”

Thank you. So something should be done. That is all I wanted to hear.

• Link
• Report this comment

Thulsa – The devil made me do it.

• Link
• Report this comment

The fact that he fails to mention that suggests that either he’s trying to push a biased opinion or he’s ignorant of actual law. I’m willing to go with the former as the paper was produced for the Heritage Foundation.

Not to mention that biased opinion is used to create poutrage for blog trolling drama queens and their rabbit holes.

• Link
• Report this comment

If it creates any jobs it will do a lot better than the Democrats/Obama have been able to do.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Which is the entire raison d’être for thirty years of talk-radio.”

You have answered my questions. I won’t engage you further on any issue.

• Link
• Report this comment

harvey: If it creates any jobs it will do a lot better than the Democrats/Obama have been able to do.

Better than 22 consecutive months of job growth? ok. I’m sure you have evidence to back that up.

• Link
• Report this comment

This is the EXACT same accounting measure used by the current administration to count jobs saved or created. If it is a sleazy accounting trick for the R’s then it is a sleazy trick by the D’s.
But does Jay have the stones to admit it?
And I am not advocating this trick for either party

• Link
• Report this comment

Jewcowboy,

Nice try sir. But the spill was cleaned up and the oil co. will be required to reimburse the EPA for the cost of the cleanup.No municipal water system was ruined or even severely damaged according to the article.

I’ll ask once again so that you can understand the question. SHOW ME A MUNICIPAL WATER SYSTEM OF ANY APPRECIABLE SIZE THAT WAS RUINED BY A PIPELINE SPILL HERE IN NORTH AMERICA. Not a well that was ruined by a decent sized water supply system that was actually ruined.

• Link
• Report this comment

“How many municipal water supplies systems have been ruined by pipeline leaks?”

http://www.greatenergychallengeblog.com/blog/2011/07/28/yellowstone-spill-shadows-efforts-on-keystone-xl/

• Link
• Report this comment

Dayum, cons which is it?
Your positions have the consistency of my 2 yr old’s poop

Well, yesterday started out with the tax cuts belonging to Obama, but by afternoon they were the Bush tax cuts, so I would say that the cons are consistently inconsistent.

• Link
• Report this comment

Thulsa: Once again how many municipal water systems have been destroyed by oil pipeline spills

How many does it take BEFORE it becomes wrong, Thulsa?

• Link
• Report this comment

Thulsa Doom,

“But the spill was cleaned up and the oil co. will be required to reimburse the EPA for the cost of the cleanup.”

And Keystone would cross one of America’s largest underground water reserves, the Ogallala Aquifer, which stretches across 174,000 sq miles and in under eight states so the stakes are much higher.

And, of course, Keystone has been totally on the up and up about its emergency response plan in the past:
“However, an independent assessment of TransCanada’s emergency response plans for the previously built Keystone pipeline was done by Plains Justice (Blackburn, 2010). This document clearly shows that the emergency response plan for the Keystone pipeline is woefully inadequate. Considering that the proposed Keystone XL pipeline will cross much more remote areas (e.g., central Montana, Sandhills region of Nebraska) than was crossed by the Keystone pipeline, there is little reason to believe that the emergency response plan for Keystone XL will be adequate.”

http://watercenter.unl.edu/downloads/2011-Worst-case-Keystone-spills-report.pdf

• Link
• Report this comment

Adam,

Just show me a system that has been destroyed or severely damaged. Oil spills have been happening with regularity for a long time but with no permanent damage to water systems from what I’ve seen. It sucks that it happens but what are we going to do. Walk to work.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jay: I did not know Christine said that about him. That made me laugh so loud I got looks from other people passing by my office.

• Link
• Report this comment

Town Crier

This is in the Immigration and Nationality Act under Grounds of Deportability

Section 237 (a)(6)

(A) IN GENERAL- Any alien who has voted in violation of any Federal, State, or local constitutional provision, statute, ordinance, or regulation is deportable.

(B) EXCEPTION- In the case of an alien who voted in a Federal, State, or local election (including an initiative, recall, or referendum) in violation of a lawful restriction of voting to citizens, if each natural parent of the alien (or, in the case of an adopted alien, each adoptive parent of the alien) is or was a citizen (whether by birth or naturalization), the alien permanently resided in the United States prior to attaining the age of 16, and the alien reasonably believed at the time of such violation that he or she was a citizen, the alien shall not be considered to be deportable under any provision of this subsection based on such violation.

If it doesn’t violate law, then they are not deportable. Because of the motor voter registration law, most anybody who gets a driver’s license is registered or can register to vote. Because of that and other laws, the act of registering itself is not generally considered something bad. The issue is when a vote is cast in an election.

As law currently stands, one does not have to be a citizen, or even a legal permanent resident to get a driver’s license or even a social security number here in the US. There are certain non-immigrant classifications that allows a non-citizen to apply for and receive a valid SS#. They can also apply for and receive a driver’s license because of their classification.

The author of the article offers some proof. What research have you done? Do you think it likely or unlikely that illegals are voting?

I don’t research voting unless it involves a case that I’m working on. I find it quite dubious to think that illegals are out there voting in any substantial number. Most people who are here illegally try their best to avoid bringing attention to themselves, and voting would definitely not qualify as avoiding bringing attention to themselves. I’m not going to say that there’s zero chance, because I’ve seen people get deported or refused entry because of that very thing.

Other than reading that article, what research have YOU done?

• Link
• Report this comment

Thulsa Doom,

“1200 barrels spilled sucks. But it was cleaned up”

Please show me where the Keystone pipeline is 100% fail safe. Just because something hasn’t happen does not mean that it can not or will not in the future. The line of reasoning before the BP spill, was that US shores were safe due to the distance of the offshore rigs. This proved wrong. To the cost of billions of $’s, the environment, the economy and people’s lives.

So, show me the documentation that show this pipeline will never spill.

• Link
• Report this comment

doom

All it takes is one accident. That aquifer is irreversible, once again, what’s more important water or oil?

• Link
• Report this comment

jkl, did you really recommend “commieblaster.com” as a reference site?

Had to go downstairs one floor for that one, but what a hoot!

• Link
• Report this comment

jewcowboy,

Please show me open your crystal ball and show me when and where it will spill to the point of causing an environmental catastrophe. 2 can play that game sir. You made the charge of how severe an oil spill can be. I simply asked you to point out just one municipal water supply system that has been permanently or at least severely damaged by a pipeline spill. You couldn’t. Nuff said.

• Link
• Report this comment

Alaska oil bidness was safe….until the exxon valdez
(renamed the condoleeza rice)
gulf oil bidness was safe….until the BP spill
nuclear power was safe…..until 3 mile island & chernobyl
pinto was safe…..until you run into the back of it.
titanic was safe…until it hit an iceberg
America was safe – until the neocons said
“yuk-yuk, hold my beer and watch this…”

• Link
• Report this comment

Kam

I did the same thing… That’s a classic there. I think I’m gonna add that site to my favs.

• Link
• Report this comment

Thulsa – Take it easy on Jay. He is not up to speed. He just found out the AJC is going to make him swap viewpoints with Kyle as part of their hysterical move to the center.

• Link
• Report this comment

Thulsa Doom – ” where it will spill to the point of causing an environmental catastrophe”

Go back to my original post. How do contain, control and clean up a system that is BURIED UNDER GROUND? Jeebus man, we can barely contain the stuff when have easy access to it.

• Link
• Report this comment

“OTTAWA — Two top U.S. hurricane forecasters, famous across Deep South hurricane country, are quitting the practice of making a seasonal forecast in December because it doesn’t work.

William Gray and Phil Klotzbach say a look back shows their past 20 years of forecasts had no predictive value.

The two scientists from Colorado State University will still discuss different probabilities of hurricane seasons in December. But the shift signals how far humans are, even with supercomputers, from truly knowing what our weather will do in the long run.”

You mean scientists don’t have all the answers?????? Geez. I think there has been a poster on this blog for years telling you these “forcasts” were a joke. Glad to see these 2 scientists finally had the intellectual honesty to admit it. How about the rest of you?

• Link
• Report this comment

RB: You mean scientists don’t have all the answers?????? Geez.

Yeah! They actually work to make sure they are CORRECT about stuff, and change their predictions based on the data. IMAGINE THAT!

To that end, Evolution is a 500 year old scientific study.

• Link
• Report this comment

In Obama’s mind, unemployment checks create jobs….

• Link
• Report this comment

Adam

December 14th, 2011
1:44 pm
Thulsa: Oil spills have been happening with regularity for a long time but with no permanent damage to water systems from what I’ve seen

So basically, you want to wait for it to happen before taking precautions.

Adam,

Please point out to me where I said this. Putting words in my mouth does not make your argument stronger. I’m simply saying that there has never been an oil spill at a pipeline severe enough to ruin or even severely damage a water system. there are simply too many controls in place, sensors, etc. And if there is concern over this aquifer its over a small section. Why not just build that section of the line to higher specs and require the pipeline to inspect it more rigorously? problem solved right? The problem here is one of the far left simply not wanting to agree to reasonable accomodation. Going by history your concerns over environmental damage are severely overblown. What was that they said about the Alaska pipeline? That it would cause irreparable damage to the caribou populations and possible extinction? Oh. yeah. They did say that didn’t they? And now the caribou populations have expanded and on top of that they love to rub against the pipeline for the warmth it provides in sub freezing temps. Bunch of whining and complaining and overblown hyperbole from the kook left. Nothing new there of course.

• Link
• Report this comment

McConnell is not getting his way today so he’s taking his ball and going home.

• Link
• Report this comment

RB from Gwinnett

“You mean scientists don’t have all the answers?”

“In science it often happens that scientists say, ‘You know that’s a really good argument; my position is mistaken,’ and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn’t happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion.” ~ Carl Sagan

• Link
• Report this comment

“To that end, Evolution is a 500 year old scientific study.”

Wow!! 500 years of study and still not one single example of something evolving into a more advanced species, yet you still believe it as fact? Doesn’t seem logical to me….

• Link
• Report this comment

“Fortunately, the Ogallala passes under about 6 different states. There is already about 100K miles of chemical/petro/gas pipelines running through it this very moment”

Oh lawdy. Someone hittem with facts again.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jason – “Have no doubt, a pipeline WILL be constructed.”

Probably, back to my original question. Where were you working on the Keystone and what did you do? I used to travel from Williston out to Opheim to visit my cousins at their ranch. We may have crossed some of the same areas.

• Link
• Report this comment

To hell with that old pipeline. We’ll just continue to buy oil from Venzuela. That way, no one will have to get their hands dirty with a shovel.

• Link
• Report this comment

“To that end, Evolution is a 500 year old scientific study.”

500 years old, really? Someone didn’t pay attention in history or biology class. Theory of Evolution didn’t come about until 1800’s, so assuming my math is correct, that’s at a max of 211 years old.

Just curious, where did you get 500?

• Link
• Report this comment

RB: Wow!! 500 years of study and still not one single example of something evolving into a more advanced species, yet you still believe it as fact? Doesn’t seem logical to me….

I’m not really concerned with what seems logical TO YOU considering your past sense of what logic is. But just so you know, if the level of proof you are asking for were required for everything nothing would be proven at all. Basically, the scientific method is INDUCTIVE rather than deductive. Science presents a hypothesis and then makes every attempt to DISPROVE it. After all the attacks and potential evidence, not one person has been able to DISPROVE evolution, and all the while every single piece of evidence gathered points to the hypothesis being true.

Now, if you don’t BELIEVE that, that’s fine. Fact does not require your BELIEF in order to be true. It requires contrary evidence.

• Link
• Report this comment

Adam – “Yeah! They actually work to make sure they are CORRECT about stuff, and change their predictions based on the data. IMAGINE THAT!

To that end, Evolution is a 500 year old scientific study.”
———————————————————————-
1) the data suggests that long term weather/hurricane forecasting in not predictable…actually chaos theory was born out of weather prediction models (or lack of predictability) and the butterfly effect as well.
2) Darwin’s theory “the origin of species” was published in 1859…hardly 500 yrs

• Link
• Report this comment

There is a plague that is particularly rampant in society. Even REPUBLICANS are not immune and many of them are infected with it.

What is this evil plague? This epidemic is the practice of lying and dishonesty.

The GOP has lying down to a science. They not only lie to America they lie to their OWN supporters.

Their SUPPORTERS EAT IT UP HOOK, LINE AND SINKER!

• Link
• Report this comment

Adam

December 14th, 2011
12:50 pm
Paul: I’m talking about the socialist leader in chief and his ilk and minions

Wow. Just a few more Soros and Solyndra references and every single person here would get a bingo all at once!

Got any bingo cards for Koch, Fox, Bush, rich, and the other strawmen that get flung about like monkey poo?

• Link
• Report this comment

As EVERYONE is getting bent out of shape here, may I approach this “logically”:

We all know that the Keystone Pipeline was initially envisioned to pass through some environmentally-sensitive areas, particularly the Ogalalla Aquafer in Nebraska. Many don’t know how far and how DEEP the effect would be if a major oil spill occurred. This article (provided to me by AmVet) would illustrate the size of the Ogalalla Aquafer (http://www.choicesmagazine.org/2003-1/2003-1-04.htm). If one looks at the SIZE of this thing, it’s quite telling that a spill of any decent magnitude would not only adversely affect the high Plains of the Midwest, but also the nation as a whole. Both the Governor of Nebraska and the State Department agreed that the pipeline location should be shifted so that the adverse effects could be minimized…but the pipeline route is STILL going through sensitive land; therefore, a complete environmental study is being done so that it can be EFFECTIVELY ascertained as to the possible damage if an oil spill occurred.

Now, for those who want to “fast track” this: before ANY major project is undertaken, many businesses practice “contingency theory”, i.e., what to do IN CASE OF an occurrance. The problem is this: there is NO PREVIOUSLY PROVEN methodology to show what to do IF a major aquafer is contaminated and the effect upon not only major cities, but a nation that depends on a region agriculturally. Wouldn’t it be prudent that they TAKE THE TIME to develop such a plan….or if you remember the BP Gulf Spill, their contingency plan for the Gulf was the SAME as it was for Alaska…and one of their resources was DEAD!! We have yet to know the full impact of the Gulf; do we want to discover AFTER THE FACT that the contamination of a major aquafer could have been avioded by being prudent in the front end!!

NO ONE I know would be against the pipeline….but can we agree to make sure that ALL of the bases are covered first????

• Link
• Report this comment

That Black guy: Got any bingo cards for Koch, Fox, Bush, rich, and the other strawmen that get flung about like monkey poo?

Well no, but for the record putting “Bush” or “rich” on a bingo card doesn’t really qualify. Although I am considering adding “evil rich” since only conservatives use that one.

• Link
• Report this comment

Midori

I had to laugh at the comments at the end of that article.

• Link
• Report this comment

RB,

“Doesn’t seem logical to me….”

Logic is not your friend.

• Link
• Report this comment

Thulsa Doom,

“I think not.”

If I had the time, I could go back through past columns on here and find hundreds, if not thousands of examples of “conservatives” bloviating about the inflated numbers put out by various gov’t sources on GM and Chrysler’s bailout as well as the stimulus, criticizing those numbers for including the exact thing you say should be included.

Why is it ok to include them now, but not then?

• Link
• Report this comment

I believe the precedent was set with the counting standards of the stimulus…….”will count those that received stimulus money regardless if one was ever in jeopardy of losing one’s job”.

But, this is the misfits we are talking about…..where both sides like to throw their own numbers into the cbo and claim Oz is just around the corner.

I’d caution any numbers “out there” at the moment…….believe at one’s own peril.

• Link
• Report this comment

hardly like grammar police…exaggerating your reference by some +200% to make your point nullifies your entire argument and likely several others…the phrase “intellectual honesty” comes to mind

• Link
• Report this comment

“Got any bingo cards for Koch, Fox, Bush, rich, and the other strawmen that get flung about like monkey poo?”

Yeah…we should never speak of Bush again. He never existed. That’s at least the mantra of the Republican Party would love to get forget he ever existed.

• Link
• Report this comment

Aound the answer to my own question. 200-400 feet from the surface.
Very interesting is that many parts of the aquifer are inpenetratable from surface water due to rock formations.

The rate at which recharge water enters the aquifer is limited by several factors. Much of the plains region is semi-arid with steady winds that hasten evaporation of surface water and precipitation. In many locations, the aquifer is overlain, in the vadose zone, with a shallow layer of caliche that is practically impermeable; this limits the amount of water able to recharge the aquifer from the land surface. However, the soil of the playa lakes is different and not lined with caliche, making these some of the few areas where the aquifer can recharge. The destruction of playas by farmers and development decreases the available recharge area. The prevalence of the caliche is partly due to the ready evaporation of soil moisture and the semi-arid climate; the aridity increases the amount of evaporation, which in turn increases the amount of caliche in the soil. Both mechanisms reinforce the difficulty that recharge has in reaching the water table.

Recharge in the aquifer ranges from 0.024 inches (0.61 mm) per year in parts of Texas and New Mexico to up to 6 inches (150 mm) per year in south-central Kansas [7]

Based on the worst case scenario it takes 1 year for 6 inches of moisture to get to the aquifer. I am hoping we have good enough engineers to figure out how to stop a leak before it penetrates 200-400 feet of soil. (Double walled pipes, concrete encased pipes, etc…)

• Link
• Report this comment

picture Bill Orvis White or Redneck Convert doing statistics.

that’s the heritage foundation

Hey! I can hear you up here!

• Link
• Report this comment

@Welcome to the Occupation December 14th, 2011 2:27 pm – The Republican party is exhibit A in why Plato was probably right in his belief that democracy will inevitably collapse back into tyranny.
*****************************************************************************

And the REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED:

• Link
• Report this comment

Why can’t YOU “SMART PEOPLE” admit YOU HAVE BEEN LIED TOO AGAIN?

As someone previously said, YOU ARE BEING BAMBOOZLED BY THE REPUBLICANS!”

And someone needs to cut down on the mid-afternoon triple espresso’s.

• Link
• Report this comment

exaggerating your reference by some +200% to make your point nullifies your entire argument and likely several others…the phrase “intellectual honesty” comes to mind

The phrase “ad hominem” comes to mine.

so 152 year old argument. Now, does that actually invalidate my argument or not?

• Link
• Report this comment

“I was under the impression that the US is a Republic.”

You left out a word: Democratic. The US is a DEMOCRATIC Republic

• Link
• Report this comment

Talking Head,

“I was under the impression that the US is a Republic.”

And a republic is a democratic form of government.

• Link
• Report this comment

“And a republic is a democratic form of government.”

Not quite. A republic is a form of government. Democracy is a social philosophy. There can be Socialist Republics, Communist Republics, even dictatorial republics. OURS is a Democratic Republic

• Link
• Report this comment

“You left out a word: Democratic. The US is a DEMOCRATIC Republic”

Oh, sorry about the technicality (which is irrelevent since it’s still not a democracy)

• Link
• Report this comment

“Oh, sorry about the technicality (which is irrelevent since it’s still not a democracy)”

It’s not a technicality. We have a Democracy with a republic form of government. It could be a parliamentary form, it could be a direct Democracy…but it isn’t. It’s a Democratic Republic.

• Link
• Report this comment

Adam…..please.

“ev·o·lu·tion
   [ev-uh-loo-shuhn or, especially Brit., ee-vuh-] Show IPA
noun
1.
any process of formation or growth; development: the evolution of a language; the evolution of the airplane.
2.
a product of such development; something evolved: The exploration of space is the evolution of decades of research.
3.
Biology . change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift. ”

Now look up the word “change”……..for anything to “change”, there had to be a beginning…….the theory of evolution assumes constant change through time.

• Link
• Report this comment

Doggone/GA @ 2.36,

http://www.inflectmusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Tip-of-the-hat1.gif

• Link
• Report this comment

Liars Liars Pants on Fire,

Speed kills.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Everyone on this blog and other blogs know that they cannot have a sane and logical debate with people like you. You get on these blogs and spread your Republican based lies and attack others who disagree.

You are the TYPICAL REPUBLICAN LIAR and everyone with any common sense knows that.”

Liar liar pants on fire,

Is name calling or just accusations of lying a form of substantive debate? Seriously? Is that all you got? If so you came light son. Better go and re-arm.

• Link
• Report this comment

Batman sure gets around, doesn’t he?

My thoughts, exactly.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

They also estimated oil would never reach the shores of the US after an offshore leak due to distance and support supplies. Seems that might have been a bit wrong.

Yeah, and it damaged the fishing industry for how long?

Just what we need to do smack dab in the middle of the corn and wheat belts.

Maybe Monsanto can genetically modify seeds so the crops wont be affected by petroleum.

• Link
• Report this comment

Liar Liar @ 2:40

You crossed the line there fella.

You should apologise for that nastiness.

• Link
• Report this comment

Liars Liars Pants on Fire,

“If you were so smart Jew Boy the Germans would have been your best friends.”

I used to own an Audi…and the service techs were very friendly. Not sure of their nationality though.

• Link
• Report this comment

“but a constitutional republic in which majority rule is tempered by minority rights protected by law.”

Maybe Republicans should remember that last part.

• Link
• Report this comment

More info re: pipeline spills.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/geo/balconesescarpment/pages163-183.html

This report has to do with pipelines in texas, but contains plenty of relevant data explaining why building one through a major aquifer would not be a good idea. As far as I know, Transcanada has agreed to rerouting the pipeline, despite previously saying it would be “impossible” to do so. If they can do the “impossible” on such short notice, it shouldn’t be so difficult to make any other changes recommended by US regulators. Isn’t it just good government stewardship of our environment to look for potential bad outcomes from this project prior to approving it? Proactive is better than reactive, no?

• Link
• Report this comment

“Maybe you could try exploring the evidence of God with the same vigor you explore the theory of evolution?”

“The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying… it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity.” ~ Carl Sagan

• Link
• Report this comment

Jay, seriously. America ought to tell you to screw yourself. If it’s only 500 jobs, should the US government say no? Let those 500 people starve and let’s buy oil from terrorists instead?

He’ll no.

• Link
• Report this comment

Talking Head – “since everyone these days thinks we are a democracy.”

I thought we were a Democratic Republic. No?

• Link
• Report this comment

Jm – “Let those 500 people starve and let’s buy oil from terrorists instead?”

And building the pipeline will eliminate our buying oil from terrorists how?

• Link
• Report this comment

@jewcowboy December 14th, 2011 2:46 pm
******************************************************

You are an Idiotin ! Idiotin’s nationality is German for Idiot.

• Link
• Report this comment

Nice summary of the evolution “evidence”:

http://www.allaboutscience.org/evolution-of-man.htm

• Link
• Report this comment

refused to release important data behind its estimate, claiming it to be proprietary information

That should tell you something right there. They could have had Cornell agree to a nondisclosure agreement but nope.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Still not a single observation of a positive mutation of DNA to form a more advanced being after 200+ years? Not one.”

I got one for you, ligers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligers

• Link
• Report this comment

Butch. It will reduce it, not eliminate it. And you know that.

• Link
• Report this comment

Hell they probably don’t even know that pipelines have sensors all along the line to detect leaks or that once detected that the section can be closed down.

The Deepwater Horizon safety features as well.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jm – “Butch. It will reduce it, not eliminate it. And you know that.”

Actually I don’t. Why don’t to enlighten me as to how we are going keep all this oil within our borders.

• Link
• Report this comment

md: allaboutscience.org and allaboutjesuschrist.org are made by the same people. It is mostly nonsense disguised as serious discussion, much like “Intelligent Design”

• Link
• Report this comment

Believing the earth was created 6000 years ago

And so who did the 35,000 year old cave paintings described in the movie “Cave of Forgotten Dreams”? Which is a pretty fascinating movie, by the way.

• Link
• Report this comment

Thulsa Doom,

“health bill and near trillion dollar stimulus were rammed down the throats of the American people.”

So now the majority is a minority?

• Link
• Report this comment

“health bill and near trillion dollar stimulus were rammed down the throats of the American people.”

But the $5T over 10 years worth of war? we can forget about all THAT

• Link
• Report this comment

Butch. Seriously? Because selling oil and gas here is more profitable than incurring the costs to ship it elsewhere. The reason it needs to get to LA and TX is because that is where the refineries are.

Obama, let my people work.

• Link
• Report this comment

My job of trying to educate ignorant conservatives may never end.
“Alberta-based TransCanada has proposed routing 92 miles of pipeline through Nebraska’s sandhills. Unique conditions that make the region susceptible to oil contamination include very permeable sandy soils, groundwater hovering near the surface and a network of abundant groundwater-fed lakes and marshes.

“Hydrologic studies in the sandhills have already shown that all of the conditions are right for producing very short lag times between a pipeline crude oil release and water contamination,” Gates and Woldt wrote in their letter. “Because lakes and streams in the sandhills are fed almost exclusively by groundwater, risks are not limited to the aquifer, but extend to surface water as well.””

from http://watercenter.unl.edu/archives/2011WaterScientistsWarn.asp

• Link
• Report this comment

280k jobs for teachers in the American Jobs Act.

Republicans, let my people work.

• Link
• Report this comment

Butch. You don’t have a copy of the republican handbook. Silly.

It’s stored under lock and key in Rove’s safe. Sooth told me so.

• Link
• Report this comment

Playing devils advocate here, but IF the world was created 6000 years ago (and none of us were here to know), wouldn’t someone/thing that powerful be able to create it in any form they/it so chose?

The “facts” are, that the possibilities are endless……..so we are all stuck with our “beliefs”.

• Link
• Report this comment

md: wouldn’t someone/thing that powerful be able to create it in any form they/it so chose?

Such a being would also be able to consistently falsify data to convince a few people that the story is wrong, to test their faith and trick them into going to hell.

Or so the story goes….

• Link
• Report this comment

Glad to hear your snippet Jay. But the simple fact is you and your ilk(far left) who control the democrat party don’t want it because you would rather folks pay $4 a gallon for gas. It is a fact that this project will create jobs. We could debate how many all day. You would rather people who are unemployed continue to be unemployed. The reasoning behind this is that you think people will drive less if they pay more. Of course this dissproportionatly hurts rural area’s becuase we have no choice. Of course dems don’t care. The more you beat down the poor the more they have to depend on government…. By the way how come you haven’t written about how the stimulous costed American tax payer 1.3 million per job??? The CBO did come out with new numbers you know….

• Link
• Report this comment

Funny thing is that the conservatives aren’t even sure why they are for the pipeline, but since Jay is against it….

• Link
• Report this comment

…it is quite easy to do considering not a one of us has a clue as to how we got here.

Well bless your heart! Okay, here’s the scoop: Your Daddy loved your Mommy very very much. One night he showed her a very special way to share that love. Because she was a good and decent young woman, at first your Mommy thought it was gross. But then she came to realize that there is no more special way to show love. Then she returned Daddy’s love by bearing forth unto him a child, named you. And that’s how you got here!

• Link
• Report this comment

Joseph – “The more you beat down the poor the more they have to depend on government…. ”

Riiiiiight….That’s why Congress tied the pipline project to a bill designed to extend the payroll tax cut and extend unemployment benefits.

The Republicans knew that Obama would veto it so that more people would be dependent upon the government. Genius. My question now, is why do the Republicans want people dependent upon the government?

• Link
• Report this comment

md,

“Hmmm…….so are you saying “Intelligent design” is not a possibility?”

“What counts is not what sounds plausible, not what we would like to believe, not what one or two witnesses claim, but only what is supported by hard evidence rigorously and skeptically examined. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” ~ Carl Sagan

• Link
• Report this comment

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Wonder how many guys hear that when they finally get their target home from the bar.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jm -”Obama, let my people work.”

Obama- “No. The multiplier effect that Nancy Pelosi speaks about is a much more efficient way to jump start the economy then private sector, tax paying jobs. You silly conservatives!”

The multiplier effect. It applies to food stamps but not to private sector jobs.

At a press conference in her home town of San Francisco, Pelosi explained that the program’s multiplier effect –the amount of money generated in the local economy as the result of the subsidy– far exceeds the nearly $60 billion spent this year by the federal government and is a sure-fire way to stimulate the economy. For every dollar a person receives in food stamps, Pelosi said that $1.79 is put back into the economy. The U.S. Department of Agriculture cites an even higher figure of $1.84.

• Link
• Report this comment

“An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no god. By some definitions atheism is very stupid.”
-Carl Sagan

• Link
• Report this comment

finn mccool

December 14th, 2011
3:11 pm
Funny thing is that the conservatives aren’t even sure why they are for the pipeline, but since Jay is against it….

Finn McCool,

Its about jobs, jobs, jobs. You know. The very thing Obama is against- jobs!

• Link
• Report this comment

“I’m agnostic.”
-Carl Sagan

• Link
• Report this comment

Jm – “You make your millions on government contracts”

20 years as a stockbroker, trust fund and inheritance. And for the record, I never told you how much I have.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Well, not really, since YOU just used it.”

Nope, he quoted it. You do know what quotes are, don’t you?

” I never said anything about EVIL rich”

He didn’t say you did.

• Link
• Report this comment

I think it’s time for Senator Franken to release a new edition of “Lies (And the Lying Liars Who Tell Them): A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right”

• Link
• Report this comment

Adam and a few others…….there is a difference between “probability” and “possibility”…..but one would be wise to understand that both are in play.

• Link
• Report this comment

Adam
December 14th, 2011
2:18 pm
Well no, but for the record putting “Bush” or “rich” on a bingo card doesn’t really qualify

Why?

• Link
• Report this comment

“how do you know I wasn’t a test tube baby?”

You developed in a test tube? IT’S A MIRACLE!

• Link
• Report this comment

Did somebody mention fossil fuels? Do you still think all that oil we’re pumping out of the ground is just a bunch of decayed dinosaurs? Sure must have been alot of them to produce all that oil, right? Funny we don’t find more skeletal remains….

• Link
• Report this comment

Just to clarify, Why can’t the pipeline initiative be a separate bill that can be reviewd and passed AFTER the payroll tax and unemployment extension? Did Transcanada demand an answer by the end of the week or what?

• Link
• Report this comment

I think you need to back off the economic discussions for awhile. There will be no 20,000 shovel ready jobs but I bet there will be that many total jobs. Consider this: a plywood mill goes out of business and some 300 employees are let go. Is that the extent of the loss? Hell no; there are trucks, saws, fuel, food and even landowners that create the support system for this endeavor to succeed. Will there be a ripple effect through the community; you’re damned right.

• Link
• Report this comment

FEAR (False Evidence Appearing Real)

December 14th, 2011
3:25 pm
I think it’s time for Senator Franken to release a new edition of “Lies (And the Lying Liars Who Tell Them): A Fair and Balanced Look at the Left”

Al Franken is doing an autobiography? Would anyone even read it?

• Link
• Report this comment

Tbone,

Not just that but local merchants, restaurants, etc. are affected by job losses and or gains. As I stated earlier I find it curious that Jay did not mention the number of indirect jobs that would be created or affected in a positive way by 13,000 or 20,000 new jobs.

• Link
• Report this comment

“You developed in a test tube? IT’S A MIRACLE!”

Never said that…….but the test tube part nullified the Daddy/Mommy love scene assumption……

• Link
• Report this comment

Uh Oh. I check back in to find Jay calling out the Republicans for their misleading ways yet again. Have the Republican posters blown their gaskets many times over already. Well, at least they will create a minimum of 20,000 jobs manufacturinmg fainting couches for them. We’re Doomed! DOOMED, I say!

• Link
• Report this comment

“but the test tube part nullified the Daddy/Mommy love scene assumption……”

The physical part, sure, but not the emotional part and not the development part.

• Link
• Report this comment

150 years on and these globally cooled non-scientists still cannot grasp what bright men four or five generations ago did.

On the Origin of Species is considered by historians and philosophers of science to be one of the most important ideas that the human mind has ever produced.

It is the very basis for a number of modern sciences and he is considered the father of modern biology.

And reading insanely uninformed and woefully uneducated bloggers, who have not spent a lifetime studying these matters and taking meticulous notes, in some childish attempt to rationally challenge the basic premise of his work is, well………laughable does not even begin to describe it.

• Link
• Report this comment

Butch – because politics is made up of compromises. Obama wants the payroll tax to buy votes of the average Joe and wants to hold up the pipeline to buy votes from the treehuggers. The Republicans want to create jobs that will increase tax revenues to buy their votes. It’s just a matter of what side you sit on. Both sides are pandering to get votes. Those who think the government should get out of the way are on one side and those who think the government should be in charge if everything are on the other. The Republicans are giving him his biggest candy bar and asking him to compromise on the other. And to the 6500+ people (not including the ripple effect) that would get the jobs, it is important.

• Link
• Report this comment

Well color me shocked that a politician would stretch the truth to fit their political objective.

I mean really? It is done by both sides consistently and I would think people would mature enough to see that. Once seen, it seems petty to harp on the practice by one party while supporting or ignoring that of the other party. I guess juveniles live in the political fringes.

• Link
• Report this comment

For those who complain about the possibility of a Presidential VETO on this bill….note this from the New York Times today:

“When Republicans took over the House last year, they pledged to “end the practice of packaging unpopular bills with ‘must-pass’ legislation.” If any of them wonder why the popularity of Congress is at an all-time low, they need only flip through their violation of that pledge on virtually every page of this legislation. ”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/14/opinion/the-insidious-fine-print-in-the-spending-bill.html?_r=1&hp

• Link
• Report this comment

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth…(big bang)…why couldn’t this have been the start of intelligent design?”

Sure it’s possible. If God is capable of creating us, I’m sure the rest of that was a piece of cake for him.

Speaking of the big bang theory….doesn’t it seem odd all of the plantary pieces from the explosion of a single rock are all round? And isn’t it more odd they have different compositions even though they supposedly came from the same rock? And have different atmospheres?

Kinda makes you wonder if that theory has any merit at all doesn’t it?

• Link
• Report this comment

“doesn’t it seem odd all of the plantary pieces from the explosion of a single rock are all round”

Nope, since the big bang was not a “rock” originated event

• Link
• Report this comment

Mad Max: When did teacher payrolls for a locality become a national responsibility.

It isn’t. Still, it’s nice that SOMEONE is trying to help when the chips are down locally.

• Link
• Report this comment

House bill requires unemployment recipients to pursue a GED if they don’t have one to keep getting benefits

And Obama is against education now too…..

What’s not to love about this bill? Other than the deficit creating tax cut.

• Link
• Report this comment

RB- Did Adam and Eve have navels?

• Link
• Report this comment

This will NEVER be more than a war game i’m sure.
http://technorati.com/politics/article/iranian-war-games-strait-of-hormuz/
Maybe we should re-consider the pipeline…

• Link
• Report this comment

jewcowboy -”So all this is just academic. The GOP wouldn’t renege on their Pledge to America. Would they?”

They had their fingers crossed when they made the pledge. So legally they aren’t required to follow it.

• Link
• Report this comment

Obama. Let America work!

• Link
• Report this comment

“So all this is just academic. The GOP wouldn’t renege on their Pledge to America. Would they?”

No more than Newt would renege on his pledge to be faithful in marriage.

• Link
• Report this comment

Kammie – refute them if you can – Both parties are buying votes, they just go about it different ways while we are on pace to run up another trillion in debt this year with no slackening in sight. When does it all stop – when debt gets to 60 cents on the dollar – what happens if interest rates rise when we get there? And before you trot out the Bush ran it up too arguement, I give you a movie title – Dumb and Dumber.

• Link
• Report this comment

ragnar @ 3:49

Or perhaps it is because we prefer our food without a daily allowance of benzene.

• Link
• Report this comment

Ross Perot: Name an administration that was MORE transparent.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Advance Legislative Issues One at a Time
We will end the practice of packaging unpopular bills with “must-pass” legislation to circumvent the will of the American people. Instead, we will advance major legislation one issue at a time.”

I see it right there at the bottom of the GOP.gov, so surely they are not including an unrelated pipeline in legislation about payroll taxes.

http://www.gop.gov/pledge/readthebill#body

• Link
• Report this comment

“But…but…but…they pinky-sweared.”

I regret to inform you that the photo you saw of that pledge has proven to have been photoshopped

• Link
• Report this comment

Ragnar indeed

Though jobs should be a consideration too

• Link
• Report this comment

“That would be a good one ONLY if the bill also proposes to pay for all the expenses involved. I’m sure they’re minimal. So go for it.”- Adam

Is there anything that Adam doesn’t want the gubment to pay for? Go ahead and get your Christmas wish list ready to give Santa or rather the gubment.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jays right. It won’t create 20,000 jobs.

It will create more than that.

• Link
• Report this comment

China just slapped a tax of 10% on all cars entering China from the US

• Link
• Report this comment

Does that make them socialists or gay?

Neither, it makes them tween girls.

• Link
• Report this comment

jewcowboy,

Now, now… I’m sure that the 2010 House GOP were every bit as sincere with their “Pledge to America” as they were with the Gingrick-led “Contract with America.” The key is: listen to what they TELL us, not what they actually do. (Hence, American Idol and other such nonsense from the Fox Distraction Network. Anything to keep Americans from reading the newspaper or watching their representatives “at work” on C-SPAN!)

• Link
• Report this comment

University of Michigan study says obama’s new cafe standards will result in bigger cars, not better fuel economy

Obama is dumb

• Link
• Report this comment

There’s no patriotism in profit.

Thirty years of phlogiston economists insist otherwise.

• Link
• Report this comment

Adam

December 14th, 2011
3:03 pm
“health bill and near trillion dollar stimulus were rammed down the throats of the American people.”

But the $5T over 10 years worth of war? we can forget about all THAT

Adam, where did you get the $5T war cost? Do you have a link?

• Link
• Report this comment

Adam: Reagan and Bush 1 for starters. The only green about Odonor’s jobs are the cash flowing in, routed from taxpayers to sham business recipients in return for cash you Odonor ostrich.

• Link
• Report this comment

Old timer’s twisted logic is an example of all that is wrong with liberal thinking

Increasing supply won’t increase supply? Ok. If you’re a liberal.

• Link
• Report this comment

There’s no patriotism in profit.

And to that point, why I would LOVE to tear down that giant American flag at 10 Wall Street and give it to real patriots, instead of letting those criminals who hide behind it keep it up there…

• Link
• Report this comment

Sorry, It’s not $5T it’s more like $1.29T so far, according to one account.

• Link
• Report this comment

jm thinks reality is “twisted logic.” That may be so, jm, but we don’t fill our tanks on the logic we want, we fill our tanks on the logic we have. Increasing our U.S. domestic oil production to its maximum levels would not impact the price of oil per barrel, nor the price of gas per gallon for us. I know you want it to be so, and you can sit on Santa’s lap and ask him to make it so, but it just ain’t so. Bless your heart!

• Link
• Report this comment

science doesn’t prove or disprove the existence of a god….nor has it proved or disproved the “theory” of evolution, then there’s that pesky 2nd law of thermodynamics

• Link
• Report this comment

science doesn’t prove or disprove the existence of a god….nor has it proved or disproved the “theory” of evolution

The difference is that science CAN’T prove or disprove the existence of god because that is NOT something that the scientific method can be applied to. However, the Theory of evolution (click the link for why your use of scare quotes is absurd) attempts to disprove the idea of evolution, and has not done so yet. Further evidence only leads to more of a possibility of it being correct.

• Link
• Report this comment

I hope for the sake of our country that there are smarter liberals out there, somewhere, than the ones on this blog……

• Link
• Report this comment

Old Timer – “There’s no patriotism in profit”

These are the truest words I’ve read all day. Big Business moguls will make profit any way and every way they can and have a zero amount of patriotism. They also totally own the Republican Party.

• Link
• Report this comment

the “scare” quotes were to highlight that evolution is just a “theory”

• Link
• Report this comment

Old timer’s twisted logic is an example of all that is wrong with liberal thinking

Increasing supply won’t increase supply? Ok. If you’re a liberal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RjXY_-PUbo

• Link
• Report this comment

Rick Perry knows about pipelines.

• Link
• Report this comment

Am I the only one that finds it ironic that the scientists at CERN are looking for the “God” particle

• Link
• Report this comment

Wrong. Increasing our national wealth is a good thing silly.

Seems as though we’re sitting through record profits, but the national DEBT is growing rapidly. What gives? Increasing private sector profits does not equate to increasing national wealth. Judging by your last couple of posts, I think it’s time to go to the bullpen and bring in a relief blogger. You’re losing it, bigtime.

• Link
• Report this comment

Wait.. you mean, if we drill more oil from the Gulf of Mexico, it won’t be piped directly into Mom & Pop gas stations in small towns and rural areas (where “real” ‘mericans live), where only good, true American citizens can buy gas for $1.50/gallon if they flash their GOP or NRA membership cards? WHO KNEW?

Brace yourself, Matti. I’m about to reveal the truth about Santa Claus.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Here’s an idea that will help us reduce dependency on Mideast oil”

How?

• Link
• Report this comment

It appears that one of the “must have” items for this Christmas is a firearm for personnal protection. They are flying off of the shelves faster than the manufacturers and retailers can supply them. This should tell us what people are really thinking and that is our society is going to crap and they no longer trust their leaders to solve thing much less protect them. And under our present leadership, they shouldn’t.

By the way, all of those firearms are not being sold to right wing extremists in the South by any means. California sales have skyrocketed and firearms sales there are acutally surpassing the rest of this country this holiday season. I guess even the left coast liberals are feeling uneasy now, as well they should.

• Link
• Report this comment

Only out there in the parallel reality of the lunatic fringe is the word environmental considered an insult…

Cat, I’m no quantum physicist, but I have read about the up and down subatomic forces.

Perhaps the god particle is actually the dog particle?

• Link
• Report this comment

perhaps AmVet, perhaps

• Link
• Report this comment

If you ever need to know what was the latest talking points email…all you need to do is come here and count how often the same thing is posted.

• Link
• Report this comment

Ok so what. Right now I bet there are 6500 Americans that would love to have those jobs that last two years. That gives the economy a chance to recover under GOP control and those 6500 workers two years of employment. And the oil flows in this country instead of China where we would have to import. What, oil and jobs created in this country, only 6500. Cant be!!!! Well get off your high horse, its a start.

• Link
• Report this comment

This is PRICELESS!!!

Jay questioning job numbers NOW when we’ve had nothing but silence about the rampant fiction being pumped out of PrezBO’s administration! Not only has there been a shred of journalistic skepticism from the administration’s employment estimate fairy tales, Jay has joined right in promoting them!

So, Jay, questioning the veracity, accuracy, or calculation methods for THIS project now when you’ve ignored rampant misrepresentation and outright falsehoods by PrezBO is a stretch!

I doubt that estimates of 20k “shovel-ready” jobs is accurate, but I also know that claims of unemployment at “9%” is fantasy only produced by continually removing jobless Americans from the calculation!

That said, when Keystone becomes a near billion dollar sinkhole for taxpayer money that subsequently goes bankrupt without ever producing accountable energy (–like PrezBO’s “green jobs” scams – Solyndra anyone?–). give us a call to vent your self-righteous anger!

I do find it interesting that PrezBO and Democrats demand “clean” bills, but Republicans are told to “compromise”! I suppose that follows the Liberal definition of “Compromise”: Working together on my agenda!

-SD

• Link
• Report this comment

“Well get off your high horse, its a start”

So would infrastructure jobs be.

• Link
• Report this comment

Rebo, you are right. Of course if Obama is re-elected in 2012 the pipeline will be ratified in 2013. Make no mistake about that. Obama is just trying to hold it off until after the election to pacify the greenies. Obama knows that his “followers” are alright with EVERYTHING he does, so he does it. Liberals aren’t what they used to be. These today don’t even try to appear to subscribe to free thinking. They just line up in a row like cows to the slaughter.

• Link
• Report this comment

the “scare” quotes were to highlight that evolution is just a “theory”

“Doing science means that accepting truths are temporary — the best we can do now, until more is learned. So when creationists say that evolution is just a theory, they’re missing the point. All scientific knowledge is “just a theory,” destined to be replaced.”

David Berreby Us and Them: Understanding Your Tribal Mind

• Link
• Report this comment

the last I read on this,the holdup was enviromental.Pipeline going over/thru.aqufier.Create jobs,pollute water.Obama’s fault?

• Link
• Report this comment

“as written by people I have been putting up with since the 60’s”

it’s all the fault of the HIPPIES!

• Link
• Report this comment

No, XX, like so many other “umemployed,” you made “bad choices.” You should have foreseen that laissez-faire policies under Bush would have caused the collapse of the housing market.

Don’t worry, though, you can still find work as a waiter, bartender, Wal-Mart greeter, etc. Just hope they don’t cut off your unemployment.

• Link
• Report this comment

K – All scientific knowledge is “just a theory,” destined to be replaced.”
—————————
I completely agree. For the record I don’t consider myself a creationist either…If I were asked about our “origin” I would politely respond with “I don’t know”

• Link
• Report this comment

WHo is voting for these Buffoons!

DemocRat Sen. Boxer Warns EPA Provision in GOP Tax Cut Bill Will Lead to Thousands of Deaths
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/14/sen-boxer-warns-epa-provision-in-gop-tax-cut-bill-will-lead-to-thousands-deaths/#ixzz1gY53qBGJ

“Thousands of deaths”??? Really People???

• Link
• Report this comment

Sure hope they pass that ui extension.

• Link
• Report this comment

RB: the explosion of a single rock are all round (talking about the big bang)

Okay RB, you just have shown your ignorance of science with thinking the big bang was a rock exploding.

Nope, the big bang was the universe expanding, not a rock exploding.
And from this, all is / was/ will be.

• Link
• Report this comment

I think XX is punking us. Good-bye.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Yep. Because “liberals” are capable of understanding that if you turn the tap on here, there’s NOTHING to stop other oil producers from turning THEIR taps off.”

So “if” we turn on another pipeline other oil producers “may” or “might” turn their taps off.

More of what counts as logic in the bizarro world of the kook left.

• Link
• Report this comment

“I think XX is punking us. Good-bye”

Yeah, his latest shows that

• Link
• Report this comment

Erwin’s Cat: Am I the only one that finds it ironic that the scientists at CERN are looking for the “God” particle

Well, most scientists don’t call it that. The ones that do evidently have no understanding of God.

Really, they’re looking for a particle that applies mass to everything. Nothing spiritual at all about that.

• Link
• Report this comment

I guess Leftists like Bookman and a lot of other people on this blog want us to keep on paying through the nose for gas and the fact that people would actually be working and therefore off the government teat is just the final straw huh?I hope the majority of Americans are paying attention to this. If they are it’s a no-brainer. Build the DAMN pipeline and vote these COMMIES out of office next election cycle!!

• Link
• Report this comment

Punking us — I thought the reference to the 401k and the retirement with the loss of healthcare was a tell but yep…. it a punk.

• Link
• Report this comment

Dude – I am familiar with the Higgs Boson…I was just commenting on the irony of the nickname

• Link
• Report this comment

XX,

The use of solar energy has not been opened up because the oil industry does not own the sun. ~Ralph Nader

• Link
• Report this comment

Keep

Last engineering firm I worked for had 401k and health care. The tip-off for me was 25 years with no lay-offs. Not impossible, but I find it difficult to believe.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Further evidence only leads to more of a possibility of it being correct.”

By George, I think he may finally have it………hence the use of the word “possibility”.

• Link
• Report this comment

Punking is for punks . Telling the Truth is a whole lot more fun .

• Link
• Report this comment

Kam, yep. And if you “lost” your 401k and wife’s retirement it would have been in 2008, not likely in the current market if you are diversified. Gotta be a sockpuppet.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Explain how this pipeline will reduce the cost of gas. And PLEASE try to do a better job than everyone else who thinks they know the answer…but who don’t.”

You put your right foot in,
You put your right foot out;
You put your right foot in,
And you shake it all about.
You do the Hokey-Pokey,
And you turn yourself around.
That’s what it’s all about!

It’s simple really!

• Link
• Report this comment

Bookman you are a fraud. The Cornell study to which you refer is just a re-hash of garbage from the Goodman Group. And, the Goodman Group is nothing more than a Berkley, CA. based ubber-left environmental consulting outfit. Just look at their web site and see their “client” list, a who’s who of left wing tree huggers. Yeah Jay, your mind gets a little foggy when it comes to FACTS. To further embarrass you, this “assessment” comes from a school that is proud to claim that they do not have a single Republican Administrator………meaning it’s academics are riddled with lefty’s, the same group that is adamantly opposed to this pipeline project. Your writings are a joke, a very bad joke at that.

• Link
• Report this comment

The root is CRA (thanks to the peanut farmer) and it received steroids under Clinton.

De-bunked here multiple times per week.

• Link
• Report this comment

I think poor, pathetic Little Davy Crybaby has managed to sneak into the blog tonight!

How’s it going, Dave? Still have healthcare on the County dime? Or has it run already?

• Link
• Report this comment

“De-bunked here multiple times per week”

He knows that. But he belongs to the “repeat a lie often enough and it will be believed” class of trolls.

• Link
• Report this comment

Erwins’ Cat

Yeah, it’s a bad nickname and whoever came up with it should be dragged to church and shown The Way.

(hopefully to a church that allows atheist scientists and/or agonistic researchers to their flock)

• Link
• Report this comment

“Ok, refute it. What mechanism exists to FORCE the other oil producing nations to maintain their production output?”- Doggone

And what crystal ball exists to ensure that all oil producing nations will maintain or reduce their production output? Keep in mind that OPEC members themselves regularly cheat on their production quotes and keep in mind also that many other nations also produce oil.

But since you like to base foreign policy on shoulda, coulda, woulda, maybe, if, then lets look at the reason why the Alaskan pipeline was built in the first place.

The pipeline was built between 1974 and 1977 after the 1973 oil crisis caused a sharp rise in oil prices in the United States-wikipedia

Now since we’re in your world of what ifs then what happens to the U.S. if we have another Arab oil embargo? Or what happens if the Iranians shut down oil shipping out of the Strait of Hormuz?-As Akhmadinejad is threatening to do right freaking now.We don’t need a crystal ball for that. All we need for that is a link from oh….. how about yesterday’s news. http://reportergary.com/2011/12/iran-threatens-to-shut-off-strait-of-hormuz/ Ever think about that one genius? Obviously not. Geo strategic thinker you aint. Not by a long shot ma’am.

• Link
• Report this comment

Good-bye and good riddance! Come back when you can’t stay so long!

• Link
• Report this comment

Rather than pursue projects with proven technology that could help make North America more energy independent, Obama would rather throw taxpayer money to campaign contribution bundlers promising “green jobs”- as if the money is going to suddenly transform them into innovators. First Solyndra, now Range Fuels in Soperton, GA. Range fuels has been given a total of $156mm in Government grants and guaranteed loans. Range defaulted last week and will be liquidated on the court house steps in case Adam needs some slightly used ethanol equipment. 2012 will be marked by dozens of green energy plants going bankrupt.North Dakota is experiencing record employment needs because of the new shale oil technology. The OWS folks could probably earn six figures if they were willing to learn how to weld or drive a truck and relocate. As far as the Keystone pipeline is concerned, I would rather form a joint venture with Canada for energy production than depend on Obama’s international relations with the Middle East. In case you haven’t heard, Obama is personally responsible for Osama Bin Laden’s demise and they don’t like us very much.

• Link
• Report this comment

Dude – Lederman called it the “God” particle, because he couldn’t call it the “Goshdang” particle (I am paraphrasing for PG) ..Goshdang because no one could find it

• Link
• Report this comment

“may increase overall supply ”

It WILL increase the supply. What it won’t necessarily do is increase the amoutn available on the market.

• Link
• Report this comment

“And what crystal ball exists to ensure that all oil producing nations will maintain or reduce their production output?”

Or, in other words, you CAN’T refute it. But we actually already knew that.

• Link
• Report this comment

Keep Up the Good Fight!

December 14th, 2011
5:10 pm
Ahh Doggone, asking the Thelma Troll to refute his troll posts and constant lies. If he bothers with anything intelligent (highly unlikely) it will be a deflection

Looks like the sand flea is nipping at my ankles again. If his posts were anything more than a minor nuisance I would promote him from sand flea to a chihuahua nipping at my ankles- at least they have a bite to them albeit a very minor one. But to date he’s still ranks as sand flea.

• Link
• Report this comment

What you fail to mention is that the Cornell School of ILR and its publication is left-leaning.

What you failed to do was read the comments before posting.

• Link
• Report this comment

Erwin’s Cat:
Thanks for the information. I didn’t know that part of it.

Now if only the scientists could reduce statistical error and narrow down that the mass of the Higgs Boson is actually 137.31415926539 GeV, then we can all go home and rest.

• Link
• Report this comment

Friends, I keep telling you over and over that a tsunami is about to swamp the World. And that tsunami is a World-wide shortage of oil.

Whether you realize it or not, the World has reached “peak oil.” From here production will decline. There’s no getting around it. At the same time, demand is skyrocketing. Especially in developing countries like China and India.

Prepare for hoarding, astronomical prices, shortages, etc. It’s real, it’s coming. It’s just a matter of time.

Yet, we plod along unaware — oblivious to reality.

• Link
• Report this comment

Who is manufacturing the pipe for pipeline. Why not refine in Montana. Where will oil be shipped to from gulf coast. Is it staying in us or where is it shipped to.

• Link
• Report this comment

Sooth, we are not oblivious, we just cannot get our leaders to have a coherent policy, thanks in large part to the “geo thinking” of nimnod righty trolls.

• Link
• Report this comment

I go to kyle wingnut’s blog to deflect and blame the gop for everything to be fair and balanced..

• Link
• Report this comment

“Why not refine in Montana. Where will oil be shipped to from gulf coast. Is it staying in us or where is it shipped to.”

The most lucid post of the evening as far as I’m concerned. It seems to me it would be a lot cheaper to build a refinery in Montana or Canada than building a pipeline to the Gulf Coast.

• Link
• Report this comment

Great Zeus! Kam has cracked the code!

• Link
• Report this comment