The Keystone pipeline will NOT create 20,000 new jobs
“Millions of Americans are desperate for jobs, and no single project promises more of them than the proposed Keystone XL Pipeline, which would run from Canada to the Gulf Coast…. As the largest shovel-ready infrastructure project in the U.S., Keystone XL was expected to create 20,000 new jobs right away.”
– U.S. Sen. Dick Lugar and
Senate Minority Leader
Mitch McConnell
And that, of course, is false, and Lugar and McConnell have good reason to know it is false. The Keystone XL Pipeline, the centerpiece of the latest standoff in Washington, will not produce 20,000 shovel-ready jobs. Even TransCanada, the company pushing the pipeline’s construction, now acknowledges that it is false.
The number that the company likes to throw around is now 13,000 direct construction jobs, but that too is misleading. When challenged, the company acknowledges that it is counting what you might call “job years.” In other words, TransCanada believes the project will produce 6,500 jobs that last for two years.
Six thousand five hundred jobs is a far cry from 20,000. And even the 6,500-job estimate is much too high. According to an independent assessment by Cornell University’s School of Industrial and Labor Relations, the project would produce between 2,500 and 4,650 construction jobs, and could even end up costing the country jobs, for reasons that we’ll get to below.
TransCanada is basing its job estimates on a report that it commissioned from the Perryman Group. However, the Perryman Group has refused to release important data behind its estimate, claiming it to be proprietary information. The folks at Cornell nevertheless took what data Perryman did make available and found several major, fundamental flaws in its approach.
For example, a $1 billion portion of the Keystone XL pipeline has already been built and is up and operating. The Perryman study nonetheless pretends that section of the project is still on the drawing boards and, when built, will provide thousands of new jobs.
In addition, Keystone supporters ignore the fact that large quantities of Canadian tar-sands oil are already being imported into the United States and are being refined and used in the American Midwest. As the Cornell study points out:
“According to TransCanada, KXL will increase the price of heavy crude oil in the Midwest by almost $2 to $4 billion annually, and escalating for several years. It will do this by diverting major volumes of tar sands oil now supplying the Midwest refineries, so it can be sold at higher prices to the Gulf Coast and export markets. As a result, consumers in the Midwest could be paying 10 to 20 cents more per gallon for gasoline and diesel fuel, adding up to $5 billion to the annual US fuel bill.”
As the Cornell study concludes, those higher fuel prices for the Midwest could cost that region thousands of jobs. So while the pipeline construction would certainly help the Canadian tar-sands investors — many of them Chinese — get a higher price for their product by moving it to the Gulf, it could prove to be a wash or even a net negative in terms of jobs for American workers.
As the Cornell study concludes:
“It is unfortunate that the numbers generated by TransCanada, the industry, and the Perryman study have been subject to so little scrutiny, because they clearly inflate the projections for the numbers of direct, indirect, and long-term induced jobs that KXL might expect to create. What is being offered by the proponents is advocacy to build support for KXL, rather than serious research aimed to inform public debate and responsible decision making. By repeating inflated numbers, the supporters of KXL approval are doing an injustice to the American public in that expectations are raised for jobs that simply cannot be met. These numbers — hundreds of thousands of jobs! — then get packaged as if KXL were a major jobs program capable of registering some kind of significant impact on unemployment levels and the overall economy. This is plainly untrue.”
– Jay Bookman
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804 comments Add your comment
Talking Head
December 14th, 2011
2:29 pm
“The Republican party is exhibit A in why Plato was probably right in his belief that democracy will inevitably collapse back into tyranny.”
Couldn’t agree with you more about that. But I fail to see how the Republican party is an exhibit of democracy, I was under the impression that the US is a Republic.
Liars Liars Pants on Fire
December 14th, 2011
2:30 pm
@Welcome to the Occupation December 14th, 2011 2:27 pm – The Republican party is exhibit A in why Plato was probably right in his belief that democracy will inevitably collapse back into tyranny.
*****************************************************************************
And the REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED:
Kamchak
December 14th, 2011
2:31 pm
I am guessing the time it would take for the oil to penetrate 1000 feet of ground (only a guess)is much greater than the time it would take to find and correct the leak.
According to Wiki, the Ogallala aquifer not only provides drinking water for 82% of the people in the boundary for the aquifer but also irrigation for our food supply.
You wanna risk our food on “only a guess”?
jewcowboy
December 14th, 2011
2:31 pm
Why can’t YOU “SMART PEOPLE” admit YOU HAVE BEEN LIED TOO AGAIN?
As someone previously said, YOU ARE BEING BAMBOOZLED BY THE REPUBLICANS!”
And someone needs to cut down on the mid-afternoon triple espresso’s.
md
December 14th, 2011
2:32 pm
“After all the attacks and potential evidence, not one person has been able to DISPROVE evolution, and all the while every single piece of evidence gathered points to the hypothesis being true.”
Yet, these “facts” are for a given period of time only……….which happens to be a small fraction of the overall time involved. When they figure out the “beginning” of evolution, come back and post it.
Adam
December 14th, 2011
2:32 pm
exaggerating your reference by some +200% to make your point nullifies your entire argument and likely several others…the phrase “intellectual honesty” comes to mind
The phrase “ad hominem” comes to mine.
so 152 year old argument. Now, does that actually invalidate my argument or not?
Midori
December 14th, 2011
2:33 pm
Kammy,
Batman sure gets around, doesn’t he?
poor guy. he just can’t handle being called out on his crap
Doggone/GA
December 14th, 2011
2:33 pm
“I was under the impression that the US is a Republic.”
You left out a word: Democratic. The US is a DEMOCRATIC Republic
Adam
December 14th, 2011
2:34 pm
md: When they figure out the “beginning” of evolution, come back and post it.
There IS NO BEGINNING to the theory of evolution. It is about a change in species over time and how it happens. It does not attempt to explain ANYTHING ELSE.
Get off that, because it does not AT ALL help make your case.
jewcowboy
December 14th, 2011
2:35 pm
Talking Head,
“I was under the impression that the US is a Republic.”
And a republic is a democratic form of government.
Liars Liars Pants on Fire
December 14th, 2011
2:36 pm
@Thulsa Doom December 14th, 2011 1:57 pm carlosgvv December 14th, 2011 1:53 pm
This is what constitutes facts and logical debate from a lib
___________________________________________
Everyone on this blog and other blogs know that they cannot have a sane and logical debate with people like you. You get on these blogs and spread your Republican based lies and attack others who disagree.
You are the TYPICAL REPUBLICAN LIAR and everyone with any common sense knows that.
You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can’t fool those who KNOW BETTER.
Doggone/GA
December 14th, 2011
2:36 pm
“And a republic is a democratic form of government.”
Not quite. A republic is a form of government. Democracy is a social philosophy. There can be Socialist Republics, Communist Republics, even dictatorial republics. OURS is a Democratic Republic
jewcowboy
December 14th, 2011
2:36 pm
Kamchak,
“You wanna risk our food on “only a guess”?”
They also estimated oil would never reach the shores of the US after an offshore leak due to distance and support supplies. Seems that might have been a bit wrong.
Talking Head
December 14th, 2011
2:37 pm
“You left out a word: Democratic. The US is a DEMOCRATIC Republic”
Oh, sorry about the technicality (which is irrelevent since it’s still not a democracy)
Adam
December 14th, 2011
2:38 pm
Talking Head: YOUR point is irrelevant unless you’re advocating for fealty to the overlords. Is that what you are espousing? If so, better shut up and just do what Obama says.
Doggone/GA
December 14th, 2011
2:40 pm
“Oh, sorry about the technicality (which is irrelevent since it’s still not a democracy)”
It’s not a technicality. We have a Democracy with a republic form of government. It could be a parliamentary form, it could be a direct Democracy…but it isn’t. It’s a Democratic Republic.
Liars Liars Pants on Fire
December 14th, 2011
2:40 pm
@jewcowboy December 14th, 2011 2:31 pm -
*****************************************
Listen Jew boy you are not the boss of me nor is the Republican Liars.
I cannot be intimidated by your attacks, rhetoric, lies, and stupid remarks.
If you were so smart Jew Boy the Germans would have been your best friends.
md
December 14th, 2011
2:41 pm
Adam…..please.
“ev·o·lu·tion
[ev-uh-loo-shuhn or, especially Brit., ee-vuh-] Show IPA
noun
1.
any process of formation or growth; development: the evolution of a language; the evolution of the airplane.
2.
a product of such development; something evolved: The exploration of space is the evolution of decades of research.
3.
Biology . change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift. ”
Now look up the word “change”……..for anything to “change”, there had to be a beginning…….the theory of evolution assumes constant change through time.
Normal
December 14th, 2011
2:42 pm
Mich McConnell and other republicans are reputed to have said, “Making President Obama a one term President is our number one priority.”
Then why are they working so hard to get him re-elected, one wonders?
jewcowboy
December 14th, 2011
2:42 pm
Doggone/GA @ 2.36,
http://www.inflectmusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Tip-of-the-hat1.gif
TM
December 14th, 2011
2:42 pm
And all of you believed Obama’s adminstration when his people predicted that the $800 billion stimulus bill would keep unemployment below 8%. Can’t we agree both parties lie to get what they want?
jewcowboy
December 14th, 2011
2:43 pm
Liars Liars Pants on Fire,
Speed kills.
Welcome to the Occupation
December 14th, 2011
2:43 pm
Liar Liar: “And the REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED”
Except for the closed circuit channels being closed watched in the surveillance vans of the doughnut-chomping privately contracted security forces charged with monitoring and squelching it.
Thulsa Doom
December 14th, 2011
2:43 pm
“Everyone on this blog and other blogs know that they cannot have a sane and logical debate with people like you. You get on these blogs and spread your Republican based lies and attack others who disagree.
You are the TYPICAL REPUBLICAN LIAR and everyone with any common sense knows that.”
Liar liar pants on fire,
Is name calling or just accusations of lying a form of substantive debate? Seriously? Is that all you got? If so you came light son. Better go and re-arm.
Talking Head
December 14th, 2011
2:44 pm
“Talking Head: YOUR point is irrelevant unless you’re advocating for fealty to the overlords. Is that what you are espousing? If so, better shut up and just do what Obama says.”
Oh, I see we have a fan of tyranny.
“It’s not a technicality. We have a Democracy with a republic form of government. It could be a parliamentary form, it could be a direct Democracy…but it isn’t. It’s a Democratic Republic.”
Not really. We have a constitutional republic. The United States relies on representative democracy, but its system of government is much more complex than that. It is not a simple representative democracy, but a constitutional republic in which majority rule is tempered by minority rights protected by law.
Kamchak
December 14th, 2011
2:44 pm
Batman sure gets around, doesn’t he?
My thoughts, exactly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They also estimated oil would never reach the shores of the US after an offshore leak due to distance and support supplies. Seems that might have been a bit wrong.
Yeah, and it damaged the fishing industry for how long?
Just what we need to do smack dab in the middle of the corn and wheat belts.
Maybe Monsanto can genetically modify seeds so the crops wont be affected by petroleum.
Jm
December 14th, 2011
2:45 pm
Jay is not an economist
Apparently he’s never heard of the multiplier effect.
13,000 new job years can spur 5 times that many in the broader economy.
By jay’s logic we shouldn’t give a crap: shut down the economy for the good of the environment and let the government send checks to everyone
Of course they would be worthless since there’s no tax revenue, but hey, who’s cares?
Oh. And that same methodology keystone uses is more conservative than that from CBO
More lies from Jay
Granny Godzilla
December 14th, 2011
2:45 pm
Liar Liar @ 2:40
You crossed the line there fella.
You should apologise for that nastiness.
RB from Gwinnett
December 14th, 2011
2:46 pm
“Science presents a hypothesis and then makes every attempt to DISPROVE it. ”
Not when the only option to believing evolution is to believe God created it all and you’ve already decided there is no God so the competing theory can’t be considered.
Still not a single observation of a positive mutation of DNA to form a more advanced being after 200+ years? Not one. Yet you want us all to believe they’ve been happening with enough regularity to form us from a gnat?
It takes far less faith to believe in God than to believe in that. Maybe you could try exploring the evidence of God with the same vigor you explore the theory of evolution?
jewcowboy
December 14th, 2011
2:46 pm
Liars Liars Pants on Fire,
“If you were so smart Jew Boy the Germans would have been your best friends.”
I used to own an Audi…and the service techs were very friendly. Not sure of their nationality though.
Talking Head
December 14th, 2011
2:48 pm
“Still not a single observation of a positive mutation of DNA to form a more advanced being after 200+ years?”
RB, have you read an X-Men comic?
jewcowboy
December 14th, 2011
2:48 pm
“but a constitutional republic in which majority rule is tempered by minority rights protected by law.”
Maybe Republicans should remember that last part.
Thulsa Doom
December 14th, 2011
2:48 pm
“You wanna risk our food on “only a guess”?”
Doom’s work of educating liberals is never done. I guess there is something about safety, reliability, etc. that they missed. Hell they probably don’t even know that pipelines have sensors all along the line to detect leaks or that once detected that the section can be closed down. Probably didn’t know either that the pipelines are also manually inspected on top of all that. Bless their hearts.
Pipeline networks are the most economic and safest pipeline transport for mineral oil, gases and other fluid products. As a means of long-distance transport, pipelines have to fulfill high demands of safety, reliability and efficiency. – Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leak_Detection
saywhat?
December 14th, 2011
2:49 pm
More info re: pipeline spills.
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/geo/balconesescarpment/pages163-183.html
This report has to do with pipelines in texas, but contains plenty of relevant data explaining why building one through a major aquifer would not be a good idea. As far as I know, Transcanada has agreed to rerouting the pipeline, despite previously saying it would be “impossible” to do so. If they can do the “impossible” on such short notice, it shouldn’t be so difficult to make any other changes recommended by US regulators. Isn’t it just good government stewardship of our environment to look for potential bad outcomes from this project prior to approving it? Proactive is better than reactive, no?
Butch Cassidy
December 14th, 2011
2:50 pm
saywhat? – “Proactive is better than reactive, no?”
Not when you want a shot at the Whitehouse.
jewcowboy
December 14th, 2011
2:51 pm
“Maybe you could try exploring the evidence of God with the same vigor you explore the theory of evolution?”
“The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying… it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity.” ~ Carl Sagan
Talking Head
December 14th, 2011
2:51 pm
“Maybe Republicans should remember that last part.”
We should all learn that last part, seems schools aren’t teaching that since everyone these days thinks we are a democracy.
Jm
December 14th, 2011
2:51 pm
Jay, seriously. America ought to tell you to screw yourself. If it’s only 500 jobs, should the US government say no? Let those 500 people starve and let’s buy oil from terrorists instead?
He’ll no.
Thulsa Doom
December 14th, 2011
2:51 pm
jewcowboy
December 14th, 2011
2:48 pm
“but a constitutional republic in which majority rule is tempered by minority rights protected by law.”
“Maybe Republicans should remember that last part.”
Yes. We remembered it quite well when only a couple of years ago the presidency and both houses of Congress were controlled by one party and a boondoggle of a health bill and near trillion dollar stimulus were rammed down the throats of the American people. And the American people haven’t forgotten. 2012 is coming faster than you think.
Butch Cassidy
December 14th, 2011
2:52 pm
Talking Head – “since everyone these days thinks we are a democracy.”
I thought we were a Democratic Republic. No?
Jm
December 14th, 2011
2:52 pm
Fact
Republicans are trying to create jobs and Obama is trying to destroy them.
Vote Republican 2012.
Butch Cassidy
December 14th, 2011
2:53 pm
Jm – “Let those 500 people starve and let’s buy oil from terrorists instead?”
And building the pipeline will eliminate our buying oil from terrorists how?
saywhat?
December 14th, 2011
2:54 pm
Thanks to md and RBinGwinnett, I now I understand why the some righties are such fossil fuel buffs. They are hoping to fuel their SUVs with the very same dinosaurs Adam and Eve rode around on.
Liars Liars Pants on Fire
December 14th, 2011
2:54 pm
@jewcowboy December 14th, 2011 2:46 pm
******************************************************
You are an Idiotin ! Idiotin’s nationality is German for Idiot.
Adam
December 14th, 2011
2:55 pm
md: Now look up the word “change”……..for anything to “change”, there had to be a beginning…….the theory of evolution assumes constant change through time.
Now you’re just being obtuse. You have assumed there is some sort of need for an absolute beginning when the word “change” is used, and you are incorrect.
RB: Not when the only option to believing evolution is to believe God created it all and you’ve already decided there is no God so the competing theory can’t be considered.
God and evolution are not mutually exclusive. Believing the earth was created 6000 years ago and in seven days? well that’s a little different.
Still not a single observation of a positive mutation of DNA to form a more advanced being after 200+ years? Not one.
This is actually NOT true, unless I misunderstand your meaning of what constitutes an observed mutation of DNA…
Frankly it’s a bit absurd to make your further arguments there. It is provably demonstrated that a mutation formed somewhere between apes and humans, combining two chromosomes into one at some point. There’s also a link on the bacterial level. If you’re serious about pursuing the subject honestly I’ll give you some reference material to the scientific explanations that show the progression that some have attempted to explain away with non-scientific bases such as “intelligent design.”
Maybe you could try exploring the evidence of God with the same vigor you explore the theory of evolution?
What evidence? Whatever my belief is, science doesn’t prove or disprove the existence of a god.
md
December 14th, 2011
2:56 pm
Nice summary of the evolution “evidence”:
http://www.allaboutscience.org/evolution-of-man.htm
Jm
December 14th, 2011
2:57 pm
Let Canada and America make money Mr. Obama.
Let people work Obama.
finn mccool
December 14th, 2011
2:57 pm
refused to release important data behind its estimate, claiming it to be proprietary information
That should tell you something right there. They could have had Cornell agree to a nondisclosure agreement but nope.
Liars Liars Pants on Fire
December 14th, 2011
2:58 pm
@jewcowboy December 14th, 2011 2:43 pm Liars Liars Pants on Fire, – Speed kills.
______________________________________
Loose lips sink ships!
Talking Head
December 14th, 2011
2:58 pm
“Still not a single observation of a positive mutation of DNA to form a more advanced being after 200+ years? Not one.”
I got one for you, ligers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligers
Thulsa Doom
December 14th, 2011
2:58 pm
Jm
December 14th, 2011
2:45 pm
“Jay is not an economist
Apparently he’s never heard of the multiplier effect.
13,000 new job years can spur 5 times that many in the broader economy.”
Jm,
The multiplier effect? Why yes. I remember that! I remember because Jay, the liberals on here, and I think Nancy pelosi herself talked about the economic multiplier effect of how welfare checks and food stamps can stimulate the economy.
But you must remember that in the bizarro world of the kook left that the multiplier effect only applies to welfare checks and food stamps and not to actual private sector jobs. Cie la vie in liberal bizarro world!
Jm
December 14th, 2011
2:59 pm
Butch. It will reduce it, not eliminate it. And you know that.
Butch Cassidy
December 14th, 2011
2:59 pm
Jm – “Let people work Obama.”
Why is it up to Obama to let people work? What happened to personal responsibility and Bootstraps? Maybe you need to go back and hang out with your OWS scum you friggin socialist commie!
Kamchak
December 14th, 2011
2:59 pm
Hell they probably don’t even know that pipelines have sensors all along the line to detect leaks or that once detected that the section can be closed down.
The Deepwater Horizon safety features as well.
Kamchak
December 14th, 2011
2:59 pm
Hell they probably don’t even know that pipelines have sensors all along the line to detect leaks or that once detected that the section can be closed down.
The Deepwater Horizon had safety features as well.
Butch Cassidy
December 14th, 2011
3:00 pm
Jm – “Butch. It will reduce it, not eliminate it. And you know that.”
Actually I don’t. Why don’t to enlighten me as to how we are going keep all this oil within our borders.
md
December 14th, 2011
3:00 pm
“Thanks to md and RBinGwinnett, I now I understand why the some righties are such fossil fuel buffs.They are hoping to fuel their SUVs with the very same dinosaurs Adam and Eve rode around on.”
Interesting assumption…….completely wrong, but says quite a lot about you.
Last I checked, one can argue against evolution as the origin of man AND also argue against an Adam and Eve……….it is quite easy to do considering not a one of us has a clue as to how we got here.
Adam
December 14th, 2011
3:00 pm
md: allaboutscience.org and allaboutjesuschrist.org are made by the same people. It is mostly nonsense disguised as serious discussion, much like “Intelligent Design”
Jm
December 14th, 2011
3:02 pm
Butch
Because he’s stopping them. Duh
finn mccool
December 14th, 2011
3:02 pm
Believing the earth was created 6000 years ago
And so who did the 35,000 year old cave paintings described in the movie “Cave of Forgotten Dreams”? Which is a pretty fascinating movie, by the way.
Liars Liars Pants on Fire
December 14th, 2011
3:02 pm
@Granny Godzilla December 14th, 2011 2:45 pm Liar Liar @ 2:40 – You crossed the line there fella.
You should apologise for that nastiness.
_________________________________________
I SINCERELY APOLOGIZE.
I was only trying to get him to see that when you attack people they will attack you back.
Everyone is not going to be talked down to. WE can agree to disagree without being attacking each other.
Again, I sincerely apologize. I did not mean any disrespect…
jewcowboy
December 14th, 2011
3:02 pm
Thulsa Doom,
“health bill and near trillion dollar stimulus were rammed down the throats of the American people.”
So now the majority is a minority?
Tom Middleton
December 14th, 2011
3:03 pm
In spite of the highly inflated jobs numbers in this particular project, Jay, at least we have a general acknowledgement by Washington Republicans that government can create jobs.
After all their political rhetoric that only the wealthy can do this, hence all the many tax cuts for the rich (to no avail), we now have something different and movement toward the middle.
Is their embracing this reality so close to a major election a miracle, sir, or am I wrong to even suggest such a thing?
Let’s hope it’s a miracle and permanent in their thinking, for while it might only be a small step toward what is sane, it seems more like a giant leap for sane kind!
Adam
December 14th, 2011
3:03 pm
“health bill and near trillion dollar stimulus were rammed down the throats of the American people.”
But the $5T over 10 years worth of war? we can forget about all THAT
Butch Cassidy
December 14th, 2011
3:04 pm
Jm – “Because he’s stopping them. Duh”
But that’s not what my Republican handbook tells me. It tells me that I shouldn’t have to give any of my money away to support those people who are to lazy to get a job. It also tells me that people need to take responsibility for themselves and stop relying on the “government” to help them.
Jm
December 14th, 2011
3:04 pm
Butch. Seriously? Because selling oil and gas here is more profitable than incurring the costs to ship it elsewhere. The reason it needs to get to LA and TX is because that is where the refineries are.
Obama, let my people work.
md
December 14th, 2011
3:04 pm
“It is mostly nonsense disguised as serious discussion, much like “Intelligent Design””
Hmmm…….so are you saying “Intelligent design” is not a possibility?
saywhat?
December 14th, 2011
3:05 pm
My job of trying to educate ignorant conservatives may never end.
“Alberta-based TransCanada has proposed routing 92 miles of pipeline through Nebraska’s sandhills. Unique conditions that make the region susceptible to oil contamination include very permeable sandy soils, groundwater hovering near the surface and a network of abundant groundwater-fed lakes and marshes.
“Hydrologic studies in the sandhills have already shown that all of the conditions are right for producing very short lag times between a pipeline crude oil release and water contamination,” Gates and Woldt wrote in their letter. “Because lakes and streams in the sandhills are fed almost exclusively by groundwater, risks are not limited to the aquifer, but extend to surface water as well.””
from http://watercenter.unl.edu/archives/2011WaterScientistsWarn.asp
Kamchak
December 14th, 2011
3:05 pm
Liars Liars Pants on Fire
I suspect you are about to get carded. The only question is, will it be red or yellow?
Adam
December 14th, 2011
3:05 pm
280k jobs for teachers in the American Jobs Act.
Republicans, let my people work.
Adam
December 14th, 2011
3:06 pm
md: Hmmm…….so are you saying “Intelligent design” is not a possibility?
I’m saying it’s not a serious discussion because it is trying to be science when it’s not science.
Jm
December 14th, 2011
3:07 pm
Butch. You don’t have a copy of the republican handbook. Silly.
It’s stored under lock and key in Rove’s safe. Sooth told me so.
finn mccool
December 14th, 2011
3:07 pm
If the purpose of the pipe is mainly to get the oil to the coast, why does it need to come through the states?
md
December 14th, 2011
3:08 pm
Playing devils advocate here, but IF the world was created 6000 years ago (and none of us were here to know), wouldn’t someone/thing that powerful be able to create it in any form they/it so chose?
The “facts” are, that the possibilities are endless……..so we are all stuck with our “beliefs”.
jewcowboy
December 14th, 2011
3:08 pm
Liars Liars Pants on Fire,
Considering your posts so far, one would think you would be sensitive about using the term “idiot.”
Adam
December 14th, 2011
3:09 pm
md: wouldn’t someone/thing that powerful be able to create it in any form they/it so chose?
Such a being would also be able to consistently falsify data to convince a few people that the story is wrong, to test their faith and trick them into going to hell.
Or so the story goes….
md
December 14th, 2011
3:10 pm
“I’m saying it’s not a serious discussion because it is trying to be science when it’s not science.”
According to who’s definition?
Remember, all we have are our beliefs…….and our definitions are based on those beliefs.
Joseph
December 14th, 2011
3:10 pm
Glad to hear your snippet Jay. But the simple fact is you and your ilk(far left) who control the democrat party don’t want it because you would rather folks pay $4 a gallon for gas. It is a fact that this project will create jobs. We could debate how many all day. You would rather people who are unemployed continue to be unemployed. The reasoning behind this is that you think people will drive less if they pay more. Of course this dissproportionatly hurts rural area’s becuase we have no choice. Of course dems don’t care. The more you beat down the poor the more they have to depend on government…. By the way how come you haven’t written about how the stimulous costed American tax payer 1.3 million per job??? The CBO did come out with new numbers you know….
Jm
December 14th, 2011
3:11 pm
Obama is job killer number one.
If you’re out of work, call the white house and tell them you want to them to let Americans work.
finn mccool
December 14th, 2011
3:11 pm
Funny thing is that the conservatives aren’t even sure why they are for the pipeline, but since Jay is against it….
jewcowboy
December 14th, 2011
3:12 pm
“I was only trying to get him to see that when you attack people they will attack you back”
“Some of “YOU” people are what STUPID people THINK SMART people sound like.”
“Some of what most of you are saying has no substance. It is SMOKE AND MIRRORS.”
Yes..well. How is that working out?
Matti's Practicality
December 14th, 2011
3:13 pm
…it is quite easy to do considering not a one of us has a clue as to how we got here.
Well bless your heart! Okay, here’s the scoop: Your Daddy loved your Mommy very very much. One night he showed her a very special way to share that love. Because she was a good and decent young woman, at first your Mommy thought it was gross. But then she came to realize that there is no more special way to show love. Then she returned Daddy’s love by bearing forth unto him a child, named you. And that’s how you got here!
Adam
December 14th, 2011
3:13 pm
md: According to who’s definition?
Like I said before, you’re being obtuse.
Butch Cassidy
December 14th, 2011
3:14 pm
Joseph – “The more you beat down the poor the more they have to depend on government…. ”
Riiiiiight….That’s why Congress tied the pipline project to a bill designed to extend the payroll tax cut and extend unemployment benefits.
The Republicans knew that Obama would veto it so that more people would be dependent upon the government. Genius. My question now, is why do the Republicans want people dependent upon the government?
Kamchak
December 14th, 2011
3:14 pm
Ilk — it does a body good!
jewcowboy
December 14th, 2011
3:16 pm
md,
“Hmmm…….so are you saying “Intelligent design” is not a possibility?”
“What counts is not what sounds plausible, not what we would like to believe, not what one or two witnesses claim, but only what is supported by hard evidence rigorously and skeptically examined. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” ~ Carl Sagan
Doggone/GA
December 14th, 2011
3:17 pm
BTW – a “liger” is not evidence of evolution. Nor is a “tigon”
Kamchak
December 14th, 2011
3:18 pm
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Wonder how many guys hear that when they finally get their target home from the bar.
Talking Head
December 14th, 2011
3:19 pm
“BTW – a “liger” is not evidence of evolution. Nor is a “tigon””
Sure it is, we all are evidence of evolution.
Thulsa Doom
December 14th, 2011
3:19 pm
Jm -”Obama, let my people work.”
Obama- “No. The multiplier effect that Nancy Pelosi speaks about is a much more efficient way to jump start the economy then private sector, tax paying jobs. You silly conservatives!”
The multiplier effect. It applies to food stamps but not to private sector jobs.
At a press conference in her home town of San Francisco, Pelosi explained that the program’s multiplier effect –the amount of money generated in the local economy as the result of the subsidy– far exceeds the nearly $60 billion spent this year by the federal government and is a sure-fire way to stimulate the economy. For every dollar a person receives in food stamps, Pelosi said that $1.79 is put back into the economy. The U.S. Department of Agriculture cites an even higher figure of $1.84.
Jm
December 14th, 2011
3:20 pm
Butch
I thought you were reasonably bright
But you’re about as dim as the rest of the lackey’s here. Or you’re being intellectually dishonest
You make your millions on government contracts?
Talking Head
December 14th, 2011
3:21 pm
“An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no god. By some definitions atheism is very stupid.”
-Carl Sagan
AmVet
December 14th, 2011
3:21 pm
I see our modern day neanderthals are still fighting the Scopes Monkey Trial.
Hello?
You may be stuck in the 1920s but the rest of an enlightened planet has moved on…
Thulsa Doom
December 14th, 2011
3:22 pm
finn mccool
December 14th, 2011
3:11 pm
Funny thing is that the conservatives aren’t even sure why they are for the pipeline, but since Jay is against it….
Finn McCool,
Its about jobs, jobs, jobs. You know. The very thing Obama is against- jobs!
Matti's Practicality
December 14th, 2011
3:22 pm
Ligers are bred for their skills in magic.
Talking Head
December 14th, 2011
3:22 pm
“I’m agnostic.”
-Carl Sagan
That Black guy
December 14th, 2011
3:23 pm
Adam
December 14th, 2011
2:18 pm
That Black guy: Got any bingo cards for Koch, Fox, Bush, rich, and the other strawmen that get flung about like monkey poo?
I am considering adding “evil rich” since only conservatives use that one.
Well, not really, since YOU just used it. I never said anything about EVIL rich.
Butch Cassidy
December 14th, 2011
3:24 pm
Jm – “You make your millions on government contracts”
20 years as a stockbroker, trust fund and inheritance. And for the record, I never told you how much I have.
md
December 14th, 2011
3:24 pm
Matti……..nice assumption…..now, how do you know I wasn’t a test tube baby?
Doggone/GA
December 14th, 2011
3:25 pm
“Well, not really, since YOU just used it.”
Nope, he quoted it. You do know what quotes are, don’t you?
” I never said anything about EVIL rich”
He didn’t say you did.