Will Europe’s problems become our problems?

Correlations does not imply causation

Europe’s problems will be ours because we’re racking up debt just like they did

It’s a bad idea and when will liberals wake up to the threat of debt

Bye Barney!

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I love the final snark.

Seriously though I am a little worried. Especially if the payroll tax cut doesn’t get extended. Emotional reaction to such changes can cause harm to the economy too.

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for you, Keep: http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/308967_250590135001312_100001509830117_730427_1155164214_n.jpg

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I wish Reagan hadn’t ‘taught us that deficits don’t matter…’

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Typos above. Oh well…

Europe’s economy is indeed tied to ours. The banking system probably has the worst exposure. But America’s economy is not shackled to Europe’s.

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Thanks Midori…. I forgot the 3d…… oops.

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Only if we allow our own conservatives to force the sames kinds of cuts and austerity programs that Europe has put on place.

So, while conservatives are actually proposing we be like Europeans, they’re accusing Obama of trying to turn America into something like Europe??? Wow, so the Obama trying to make us into a European socialist country is nothing more than guilty conscience talk….

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This whole thing is Bush’s fault, no doubt…. cause Midori says so. The auricle has spoken, the fog has lifted and now all of us see the light. What a bunch of crap!!!

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GRANNY,

In all seriousness, just how much more can we spend? We are running out of tax payers wouldn’t you agree? The fact that we are borrowing a larger % of annual spend each year speaks volumes…

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Europe’s problems are of course bad news for us, however, there is a more important story. The Euro was/is an attempt to prove the “collective” is better than the individual. Coupling countries via one currency and trying to manage all to a single outcome, the value of the Euro, is a veiled socialist experiment. Not surprising for Europe as with the exception of Germany and perhaps one or two other countries, the majority want more than they put in.

More troubling is the drive from the Left to make America like Europe. All encompassing, all caring, all nanny state. How many more examples will be needed before the Left realizes their idiology does not work? If the failed Euro drags the US into another recession or a depression, will that be enough? I doubt it.

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yaker

They said this real estate collapse had very long tentacles, it’s a shame that so few profitted at the expence of the world economy. Like I said before, this is going to take years to fix, no matter who is president. Right now, austerity is exactly the wrong medicine…

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In a bi-partisan move the Republican President, the Democratic controlled House and the Republican controlled Senate decided that we could cut government revenue, increase government spending and the deficits would go down and the national debt would disappear. The year? 1981.

Thirty years, and a $15 trillion national debt later, both Democrats and Republicans are pretending it did not happen.

Until both parties admit the historical fact, nothing will be done to resolve the problem.

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The EUROZONE reminds me of any major league team…say the Braves or the proportion of taxes contributors and sponges. Sometimes you are the bug (Derek Lowe) and sometimes you are the windshield (Martin Prado).

The UK are looking quite brilliant.

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RB — “and has nothing to do with an international debt crisis driven by an historic spree of irresponsible lending and borrowing”

“You mean it wasn’t Bush’s bad economic policy, Jay?”

Bush’s bad economic policy = an international debt crisis driven by an historic spree of irresponsible lending and borrowing

Remember, the war in Iraq was run off-budget. That was paid for on the national credit card. Shame we can’t take it back to the store for a refund or exchange.

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Jimmy62 — “Yeah, the US has borrowed too much for too long, we must cut spending! Glad you finally agree, Bookman!”

Liberals have been agreeing with this for a long time. The sticking point is revenue increases, which GOP lawmakers have largely refused to even consider.

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Stevie Ray

“Obama’s collossal spending sprees without any objective measureable return ”

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2011/11/23/cbo-reports-stimulus-package-was-a-major-economic-success/

and, as has been noted, spending under Pres Obama has been pretty flat – right in line with Pres Bush’s spending.

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2011/11/09/lets-examine-the-big-spending-obama-meme-a-little-closer/

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Paul 8:45

Same request from the previous thread this morning.

Please change your name.

Thanks,

Paul

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Global capitalism has now connected all of us by powerful strands of the same marketplace. The result is a free-running economic system that is reordering the world. In this new world order, what happens over there will most definitely affect what happens over here. There are no signs that this will go away anytime soon so, get used to it.

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gee mickey, didn’t see that coming………..yawn

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So where do we get the money that Granny wants to spend? We are broke. Our debt equals or excels our GDP. Our GDP cannot increase until we put people back to work. More Chinese money? Yeah, that outta do it. What’s a few trillion here and there.
No one, yes no one, has ever spent themselves into prosperity. We cannot borrow ourselves into prosperity by spending borrowed money. Elementary economic stuff.

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Paul,

It might be easier to just change your name instead of always asking the other Paul to change his.

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Just saying good morning…bigger yawn

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‘What is the left’s plan for reducing the deficit?’

Mine is Simpson-Bowles…what is yours?

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Steve USA

There’s enough name-changing on this blog, already.

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GRANNY,

I truly didn’t know that…where were these cuts made?

PAUL,

Not sure which Paul referenced Jays 11/23 relative to Spending Spree success but did you consider the silly ranges offered by category? In context each was like saying the Falcons will win between 2 and 16 games this year. The standard deviation renders the argument dead on arrival. What the CBO is saying is that they don’t have any objective evidence so they offer a range. Actuarially speaking, if I went to my clients and suggested they book a convervative ..04 percent or 2.6% whatever they liked, I doubt my invoices would get paid…How funny is that?

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KAYAKER,

Well said…

LORD,

I’m with you on the Simpson Bowles…too bad it didn’t serve the special interests of both parties which is the only way anything gets passed. I read in Washington Post yesterday that K STREET is expecting huge windfall from failure of POOPER COMMITTEE…Do you know they actually have lobbyist engaged specifically to prevent defense base closures?

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Steve USA bingo. Paul. Add a letter or something. Or get original and creative.

JF M. I don’t entirely disagree. Our economies are linked. The question is whether it is a weak or strong link. I personally think European decline does not dictate that America must decline as well.

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Enter your comments here

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All their other problems have always been our problems, why should
their economic problems be any different? They should switch from the
Euro to the Dollar.

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Will Europe’s problems affect us?

Sure. Just like our immoral bundling of bogus ‘good’ securities helped them crash.

Other question is, how much are we going to contribute to Europe to weather this?

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Good morning all y’all.

It seems to me that since all of Europe is Socialist/Communist, that to solve this problem, all of the countries should just nationalize their financial systems, execute all all of the CEO’s, reset the balance back to zero and then carry on with no more financial problems. Socialist/Kenyan Obama could then follow suit and the world would live in financial bliss forever….cue ” We Are The World”.

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The other “Paul” – name jacking is one way to get banned from Jay’s blog. You are using the same name as a long-time poster here. That is name jacking. I suggest you take his advice and change your name before Jay catches up with you.

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GRANNY,

Can you find the actual numbers of jobs lost or added at Federal Government level since 2007? All I could find is that most of those jobs lost (see attached) were state and local governments..perhaps I’m missing something. My source is Harry Reid who I suppose you support?

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/10/19/forget-the-facts-reid-says-private-sector-employment-is-just-fine/

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For an analysis of why financial solvency is failing in Europe and it why it may go wrong in America, I recommend this article by Paul Krugman, posted 11/21/11 in the NY Times (Those who have bias against Krugman should, especially, read this article, entitled, “Boring, Cruel Euro Romantics.”):

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/21/opinion/boring-cruel-euro-romantics.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Excerpts from Krugman’s article:

“Let me single out in particular the European Central Bank (E.C.B.), which is supposed to be the ultimate technocratic institution, and which has been especially notable for taking refuge in fantasy as things go wrong. Last year, for example, the bank affirmed its belief in the confidence fairy — that is, the claim that budget cuts in a depressed economy will actually promote expansion, by raising business and consumer confidence. Strange to say, that hasn’t happened anywhere.

“So am I against technocrats? Not at all. I like technocrats — technocrats are friends of mine. And we need technical expertise to deal with our economic woes.

“But our discourse is being badly distorted by ideologues and wishful thinkers — boring, cruel romantics — pretending to be technocrats. And it’s time to puncture their pretensions.”

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I see much like jm, Kayaker is begging for attention.

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Hi Paul (the cool one, that is)

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Midori
U don’t see much.

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MARYLIZ,

I have found economist’s come in all flavors none of which I find credible in the long term as they have zero accountability and an no less partisan that most on this blog.

Check out my definition of ECONOMY: “Purchasing a barrel of whiskey that you do not need for the price of the cow you can’t afford”.

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Paul @ 9:16

We have lots of work to do in busting the pretensions of that “romantic” ideology right here in the U.S.A. – that tax cuts and austerity are always “good” for the economy before we drive ourselves over the brink into a Depression.

Just as USinUK shared with me over the past weekend, “We got trouble – right here in River City” and we need to state what that trouble is over and over and over again until some of the Romantic Purists, like Grover Norquist and his flock, catch on. In other words, as Krugman says, “It’s time to puncture their (ideological) pretensions.” WAY past time!

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What many people don’t realize is that Europe’s problems are very much like ours. A lot of mortgages were made that probably shouldn’t have which led to a speculative housing bubble.

Just like us, millions of people have defaulted on their mortgages leaving the banks (or holders of MBSs) holding the bag.

The real difference between the U.S. and the Europe is that we “printed” $7,700,000,000,000.00 and gave it to our insolvent banks, while the Eurozone cannot, at present, do that.

What they’re doing right now, as we speak, is trying to figure out a way for the ECB (European Central Bank) to print Euros, while at the same time giving Brussels the authority to control the economies of the so-called PIIGS countries.

While this may solve the liquidity problem, it does not bode well for the Eurozone long term as terrible inflation will likely result.

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GRANNY,

On a federal level your data is weak…78,000 jobs but likely offset by compensation trends….I don’t really care about state and local reductions which are generally driven by many state laws to balance budgets…what a concept.

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“Bush’s bad economic policy = an international debt crisis driven by an historic spree of irresponsible lending and borrowing”

Joe, the borrowing and lending referenced in the story is between banks and people, not between the federal government and China. That borrowing problem is a result of a SPENDING problem, not a lending problem.

Might be a good idea to figure out the difference before you post any more opinions.

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“Hey gomer, keep singing that lousy tune of yours. I raarely drink, and never on a monday nite. sometimes you have to spend money to make money, you know what I mean?”–Mick

Hey Mick,

So spending money that we DON’T have on welfare and other entitlements is going to MAKE us money??? Interesting concept. We’ll take your word for it.

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Krugman had enough substance to win the Nobel Prize for Economics, and while some may even mock that achievement, it stands.

Problems aren’t sovled until the deepest element of the problem is looked, square on, and our current economic problems have been building for decades – based on valuing greed. That greed became reflected in our economy, as demonstrated when the greed inherent in the housing market bubble finally burst.

More Krugman:

“And the things they demand on behalf of their romantic visions are often cruel, involving huge sacrifices from ordinary workers and families. But the fact remains that those visions are driven by dreams about the way things should be rather than by a cool assessment of the way things really are.

“And to save the world economy we must topple these dangerous romantics from their pedestals.

“Let’s start with the creation of the euro. If you think that this was a project driven by careful calculation of costs and benefits, you have been misinformed.”

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“Don’t forget to mention the do nothing congress we have, especially the house which is controlled by ? God only knows…”–Mick

It looks like the “DO NOTHING” Democrats are finally getting out of the way…

Frank 17th House Democrat to announce retirement
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/house-races/195629-frank-17th-house-democrat-to-announce-retirement

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Bailout after bailout and the people are hitting the streets.

All hell will break loose and I feel fine.

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MARY ELIZ

Yes, Krugman won NOBEL prize but the award for economics has been bestowed upon those who are from both sides of liberal/conservative policy.

Also, since GORE and OBAMA got NOBELS as well (first for what will prove to be hoax and latter for …..well getting elected i guess) I think the Nobels should go back to dynamite manufacturing..

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Not so much now, but by 2016 when we, as always, come dragging
up the rear in joining IFRS, we & our banking/accounting/Financial
reporting systems become more uniform and intertwined, we will be
linked to whatever goes on in the world.

The difference is, these are planned/managed economies, managed
in the long term interests of their people, not “here-we-go-yeehaw
boom-or-bust supply side jaysus free for all” like here in ‘Merka.
We all had baby booms, we all have baby boomers retiring,
and more responsible countries planned for this, understanding they
would run deficits for this period. But not this breed of “Merkan
cowboy cons, no sir. We had to have tax cuts for the rich and
Little Nero’s Unfunded Adventures for Fun & Oil. Really, the most
irresponsible 8 years – well, ever. Nero wasn’t as irresponsible as
Little Nero with a Cowboy Hat and the Neocons.

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When did Harry Reid go to work for Heritage.

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Stevie Ray @ 9:50

Evidently, the Nobel Prize Award Committee saw something in President Obama that eludes your awareness. I agree with their decision awarding him the Nobel Peace Prize, and I agree with the timing of that decision.

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Before the party faithful start bitching about “over regulation” please chew on the following:

DeregulationFurther information: Government policies and the subprime mortgage crisis
Critics such as economist Paul Krugman and U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner have argued that the regulatory framework did not keep pace with financial innovation, such as the increasing importance of the shadow banking system, derivatives and off-balance sheet financing. In other cases, laws were changed or enforcement weakened in parts of the financial system. Key examples include:

Jimmy Carter’s Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act of 1980 (DIDMCA) phased out a number of restrictions on banks’ financial practices, broadened their lending powers, and raised the deposit insurance limit from $40,000 to $100,000 (raising the problem of moral hazard).[73] Banks rushed into real estate lending, speculative lending, and other ventures just as the economy soured.[citation needed]
In October 1982, U.S. President Ronald Reagan signed into law the Garn–St. Germain Depository Institutions Act, which provided for adjustable-rate mortgage loans, began the process of banking deregulation,[citation needed] and contributed to the savings and loan crisis of the late 1980s/early 1990s.[74]
In November 1999, U.S. President Bill Clinton signed into law the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act, which repealed part of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933. This repeal has been criticized for reducing the separation between commercial banks (which traditionally had fiscally conservative policies) and investment banks (which had a more risk-taking culture).[75][76]
In 2004, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission relaxed the net capital rule, which enabled investment banks to substantially increase the level of debt they were taking on, fueling the growth in mortgage-backed securities supporting subprime mortgages. The SEC has conceded that self-regulation of investment banks contributed to the crisis.[77][78]
Financial institutions in the shadow banking system are not subject to the same regulation as depository banks, allowing them to assume additional debt obligations relative to their financial cushion or capital base.[79] This was the case despite the Long-Term Capital Management debacle in 1998, where a highly-leveraged shadow institution failed with systemic implications.
Regulators and accounting standard-setters allowed depository banks such as Citigroup to move significant amounts of assets and liabilities off-balance sheet into complex legal entities called structured investment vehicles, masking the weakness of the capital base of the firm or degree of leverage or risk taken. One news agency estimated that the top four U.S. banks will have to return between $500 billion and $1 trillion to their balance sheets during 2009.[80] This increased uncertainty during the crisis regarding the financial position of the major banks.[81] Off-balance sheet entities were also used by Enron as part of the scandal that brought down that company in 2001.[82]
As early as 1997, Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan fought to keep the derivatives market unregulated.[83] With the advice of the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets,[84] the U.S. Congress and President allowed the self-regulation of the over-the-counter derivatives market when they enacted the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000. Derivatives such as credit default swaps (CDS) can be used to hedge or speculate against particular credit risks. The volume of CDS outstanding increased 100-fold from 1998 to 2008, with estimates of the debt covered by CDS contracts, as of November 2008, ranging from US$33 to $47 trillion. Total over-the-counter (OTC) derivative notional value rose to $683 trillion by June 2008.[85] Warren Buffett famously referred to derivatives as “financial weapons of mass destruction” in early 2003

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American Airlines has just filed for bankruptcy protection.

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“If financial institutions make bad lending decisions, then such a borrowing problem is most assuredly a lending problem, regardless of whether the borrowers are individuals, businesses or nations.”

Joe, if you can’t figure out the difference in the federal debt problem and the bad real estate loans that drove the economic collapse, you should avoid posting on the issue. Your circlar logic posted above is pointless. They are different issues entirely, yet somehow you want to lump it all under “Bush’s fault”. In short, you’re clueless.

And for the record, a large share of the federal debt and spending problem IS Bush’s fault (and the R congress he enjoyed)

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Sooth,

I have played that video that you posted last night several times and sent it to several friends. Can’t remember one that I have enjoyed more.

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“Paul Krugman’s economics expertise exists mostly in the minds of his far left worshipers”

Paul Krugman’s lack of economics expertise exists mostly in the minds of his far right detractors

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‘Obama declared, “If I don’t get this done in three years, then this is going to be a one term proposition.”’

No, he was predicting there wouldn’t be any way he would be re-elected. Unfortunately, with the stooge parade running for the GOP nomination, he may get easily reelected anyway…

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I thought Obama was going to fix the reputation of America in the middle east? Oh, that was just more liberal lies…

“Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that the average Pakistani’s respect for the United States is lower than ever. “[The average Pakistani who] doesn’t know the United States, doesn’t read about the United States or just watches something on television about the United States, at that level, [the relations] are probably the worst they’ve ever been,” he explained, according to the American Forces Press Service.

He added that the relationship between the U.S. government and Pakistan’s government is “on about as rocky a road as I’ve seen.”

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Almost right – until Dodd-Frank enshrined “too big to fail” into law, those who purchased European sovereign debt could have been allowed to fail, a la the Bush administration treatment of Lehman Brothers. Thank Barney and the rest of the democrats who inflicted Dodd-Frank onto the taxpayers.

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‘I thought Obama was going to fix the reputation of America in the middle east? Oh, that was just more liberal lies…’

Yes, Pakistan liked us better when we were allowing them to harbor OBL…Damn Obama…

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American Airlines has just filed for bankruptcy protection.

It’s Obama’s fault!!!!!

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Pakistan has the ‘bomb’. We will invade.

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The gop want cain to drop out and finally figured out he is a joke.

cons are the slowest Americans..

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Welcome to the Occupation – “Butch Cassidy, you’re right. The curse of the mania for deregulation (’neoliberalism’), though it didn’t really get its legs until under Reagan / Thatcher / Pinochet, actually got started under Jimmy Carter.”

Exactly, our current economic situation has been over 35 years in the making, and is due in large part to lax regulation, poor oversite of existing regulation and letting financial entities police themselves. But despite the country almost falling into a worse depression than in the 1930’s, people and particularly the current batch of GOP candidates still cling to the idea that if we just get rid of regulations, and let businesses police themselves, everything will be hunky dory.

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Correct me if I’m wrong, but one of the main problems with Europe is that the Banks don’t want to take a loss on their loans to EU. If that is true and the Governments can’t make the banks accept these losses, how can the EU prevent what will have to happen? And if the fact that the EU will fail is true, what is our Government doing to lessen the strain on us? What will the Government do to protect the innocent victims, the 99% of this country from ruin?

It looks to me that we are past austerity cuts and such. That should have happened long ago, but now we are standing on a dry beach watching a tidal wave come our way. There still might be time to get to higher ground but time is running out. Our life boat is higher taxes and social cuts, one to one. There is no other way and we need to act now, if not sooner. Otherwise the winner will be the country with the most reserves and that won’t be the USA.

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Europe’s problems are most certainly going to affect us here in the U.S. Will it become our problem? No. We will suffer, but (like Germany), there is no way we are going to subsidize the European socialist welfare state (retiring at age 55 to a beach on the Mediterranean) when our own citizens are looking at age 70 for retirement with worthless Medicare vouchers for healthcare.

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ragnar – “Thank Barney and the rest of the democrats who inflicted Dodd-Frank onto the taxpayers.”

Yeah, except for the part of the act that explicitly requires that financial institutions that get into trouble are required to have enough capital reserves to right themselves without taking money from the taxpayers. Guess you missed that part of the bill.

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WOODSTOCK MIKE – “please do tell which nation in the Middle East thinks better of America now?”

Which ones thought better of us before?

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RB

Bless your heart

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Stevie Ray — “Also, since GORE and OBAMA got NOBELS as well (first for what will prove to be hoax and latter for …..well getting elected i guess) I think the Nobels should go back to dynamite manufacturing..”

Those grapes sour, are they?

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Butch Cassidy, yep, I agree.

“Exactly, our current economic situation has been over 35 years in the making, and is due in large part to lax regulation, poor oversite of existing regulation and letting financial entities police themselves. ”

And I would argue it’s due to an highly targeted and concerted effort — waged by financial interests — to roll back the entire New Deal regime — an all out “class war” if you like. And it has obviously succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.

“But despite the country almost falling into a worse depression than in the 1930’s [..the GOP keep parroting the same ol same ol]”

I would argue that we’re already in that depression. And yes, the absolute bankruptcy of the Republican party is staggering. It’s so vast and so towering that it’s easy just not to see it altogether.

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Iranians attacked the British Embassy, oops!, they must think
they’re fooling with folks like the US, they are wrong.

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They don’t call you guys jarheads for nothing! –Mick

Says the guy who couldn’t cut it and settled for the Coast Guard… At least you guys have good coffee and donuts. LOL!

“I was referring to infrastructure. Welfare? It’s a mess, so I’d rather be spending the money having people doing some work for a paycheck, you know bring back the wpa or ccc anything for people to get up, work, and get a check…”–Mick

Mick, unfortunately you are about eighty years too late. Surely you understand that spending money that we DON’T have on bloated union infrastructure jobs that will likely include ILLEGAL labor won’t cure our SPENDING PROBLEM…
Or didn’t they give you guys a basic Econ 101 class at Trade School???

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kayaker71 – “Even bozo was surprised by he award. It was the laughing stock award of the year. A Peace Prize? For what? Sending troops to Africa, flying sorties over Libya?”

Wow, the NOBEL folks knew of these events before they even occured? Amazing, do you have proof of their super secret advances in time travel, or did you happen to witness Doc Brown and the flying Delorean disappear one day?

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Jm

I’d like to see a jello wrestling match between the Christian Coalition and the Muslim Brotherhood.

We’d both applaud, eh?

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America shouldn’t bailout Europe, Africa, Asia, or the MiddleEast period. America needs to take care of it’s own house first than help others. Why, because we have been the savior of the Nations for too long. Maybe Obama’s and GE’s best friend Communist Red China could bailout the World sinse they have all the money now? Our own Country is falling anpart under this Obama Administration and the Clowns in the Senate and Congress don’t have a clue. You have the OWS trash all over the Country will their Communist backers making more trouble will our Vacationer -in-Chief looks on.

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Will Europe’s problems become our problems?

Haven’t Europe’s problems always becomes ours, at least throughout the 20th century? Why should we think the 21st will be any different?

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“Iran and Pakistan now have us trapped in Afghanistan
with no access to the Arabian Sea, however being surrounded
we can now attack in all directions, right USMC ?”–Kermit the Frog

You could read up on Chesty Puller, but that’s probably above your pay grade.
May be your friends at Occupy Wall Street/Atlanta can help you with that one.

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USMC, I have read up on Chesty Puller and he was above
my pay grade…you…not so much..but I have never been a
class warrior just a warrior with no class….Recon ..now he
says marines love to be surrounded..frees the inability to
use a compass

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Joe, there is nothing wrong, erroneous, or dishonest about anything I posted. The problem is with your reading comprehension, dude.

And apparently, nothing anybody posts is going to help you fix that. It’s like your adament you’re going to remain clueless no matter what anybody posts.

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kayaker 71 10:31

Based on the words of your post, I see that you do not do subtlety.

Of course, the president was not going to accept the award with braggadocio. He was going to accept the award with humiltity, and he spoke words, regarding receiving the award, that most citizens of the world would understand.

However, if one bothers to peel the onion of his consciousness a little deeper, I believe that he not only has deep, genuine humility, but that he also has an elevated consciousness that fully understands why he was given that award. He would find it offensive to praise himself.

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Lord Help Us, Normal are you trying to limit the freedoms
of the Gay community by not allowing them to have their
own pedophiles ?

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Granny. I think a jello wrestling match would be hilarious

What I really wish is to keep religion (mostly) out of government

Values though, no matter their source, are important to the functioning of our country

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I’m wondering if the increases in wages at Federal level has more than offset this reduction in headcount??

Hey, Stevie Ray! Your memory must have disappeared. Federal wages were frozen more than a year ago. There have been no “increases in wages.” Whaddya want, blood?

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The “Econ101″ card.

Too funny!

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Homosexuality is a sin just like any other sin period. JESUS CHRIST the LORD thy GOD said to “Love the sinner and hate the sin”. JESUS never said to embrace sinful behavior. Homosexuality is a sin folks and all of you know it. Gay people need our prayers for help. They are our brothers and sisters too.

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I guess they will find truther at the nearest gay bar because those who scream the loudest turn out to be gay.

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TruthBe

Homosexuality is NOT a sin.

All that hate you got inside you is.

REPENT!

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Back Seater

Of course the Dems see the logic, just not in your ideas.

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We have reached the inevitable end of the cycle of Capital.

If you have hoarded money, and you charge interest (lend) it to a man
that has none and needs it (borrow), at the end of that transaction,
the man with no money has even less, and the man with hoarded
money has even more. The cycle continues until all the money
is hoarded with, say the 1%. The trick for the kings of Capital is to
“get off” the money (reboot the system) riiiight before there is Unrest
and guillotines. Sometimes they guess right, sometimes they guess
wrong (Russia, France). This reboot concept is where the term “Jubilee”
comes from in the Judeo-Christian Bible.

In the Quran, it is forbidden to charge
a man interest if he needs the money and you are rich, which explains
the REAL reason the powers-that-be want you to be skeered of Islam.
It has nothing to do with what day you go church.

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“JESUS never said to embrace sinful behavior”

He also never said it should be illegal behavior. If you believe it’s a sin, fine, don’t engage in that behavior. Not everyone agrees with you.

Oh yes, and he also said “Judge not, lest ye be judged”

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barking frog

November 29th, 2011
11:11 am
Granny Godzilla, do you first have to pent before
you can repent?

i suspect he is rather pent up

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St. Simons, as a religious man you have a keen insight into
the religious influence on our economic system..

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Granny Godzilla

November 29th, 2011
8:51 am

Stevie Ray

“What have we cut to date?”

How about 600,000 government workers?

How many of these were cenus takers? No matter, 600,000 is not enough….too much government…but that’s what keeps your party in office

Now we are waiting for the real cuts you dems have made, other than killing a world class space program…………tick, tick, tick

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American Airlines stock down about 85% today. Ouch.

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USMC, glad you decided to come out…

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Just Wondering

Why you have to hide behind so many names….

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“USMC, glad you decided to come out…”–Kermit the frog

Actually with the weather being what it is today, I decided to stay inside today.

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‘What was that “preacher’s” name in Colorado, I think???’

Ted Haggard…made statements similar to yours…

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That Jubilee/reboot thing is interesting (not that I support it).

Jefferson originally wanted corporations to have only a 30 year license to operate. At expiry, the charter is dissolved and the shareholders paid in full.

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‘Jay how about an article on the real reasons many Americans are struggling, the fact that Americans think they need to have so much more than they can afford and when they have it and can’t pay for it they go and blame everyone else but themselves? ‘

Jay posted an article on exactly subject, about a guy namde Bill Looman…you should read it…

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WOODSTOCK MIKE, 50 years ago I was 15 and it was different
but it was not better…

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“It’s all about jobs, give a man a paycheck and work for some dignity, then take a third of it back through taxes. When the economy picks up along with employment, then you can begin with the austerity measures, not the other way around. Geez, how many blows to the head did you sustain anyway?”–Mick

LOL! you are kidding, right???
You are trying to apply a 1930’s “ditch digging” solution to a 2011 runaway SPENDING problem.
What happened to Obama’s “shovel ready” jobs, Mick?

Did you fall on your head or smoke too much of that “medical” marijuana?
How long are you going to “tote water” for the DemocRAT Bolsheviks on the plantation?

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‘ If you aren’t a bigot then your are ignorant. Which is it?”’

False choice…he appears to be an ignorant bigot…

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USMC,

“First Jerry Sandusky, then Bernie Fine, now Barney Frank… that’s all, no hate.”

Then we will go with willful ignorance, I guess.

“Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves.” ~ Lord Byron

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RB — “Joe, there is nothing wrong, erroneous, or dishonest about anything I posted.”

Yes, there is. Particularly the dishonest part.

“The problem is with your reading comprehension, dude. ”

No, the problem lies with your arrogance and combativeness.

“And apparently, nothing anybody posts is going to help you fix that.”

Well, attacks, willful misstatements and dishonest misrepresentations won’t, no. And if that’s all you have, then no, nothing you post is going to change my mind.

“It’s like your adament you’re going to remain clueless no matter what anybody posts.

I’m not nearly as clueless as you’d like to think, and if you knew much about my background, you’d sit down and shut up, young man. Now, if you’d like to act like an adult, I will gladly engage and educate you. However, I can’t help you if you’re going to be arrogant, combative and argumentative.

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We are all better off without Bwaney Fwank

Spendocrats do not understand how to cut back, complete and total goverment sugar daddies is always the easy answer….

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Americans are spending more money this holiday season than ever before, but I thought we are on the brink of a depression? The left wing media is a joke…

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The economic disaster that is 21st Century Europe is a lesson for the USA, if we are not too late. The high-taxes, bloated bureaucracies & pensions, EU nanny state stifling growth, and – worse – the ever expanding dole is a formula for disaster. To find enough workers, the welcome mat is out and the borders left wide open for immigrants, with the resulting crises in education, housing, race and multi-culturalism. Good Times.

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Get Real: “Spendocrats do not understand how to cut back, complete and total goverment sugar daddies is always the easy answer”

Slack-jawed rubes sure love them some ‘Publicans. Whey they spend and play sugardaddy for the financiers and defense interests, it’s aye okay, cuz Mr. rube needs him some musculure fighting soldiers to believe in. .. yeahh.. …support our troops!

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I do have to say I laugh right at the folks who turn “We shouldn’t do austerity” into “Oh so you want to SPEND SPEND SPEND MORE MORE MORE!”

That is definitely on the top ten of stupid when it comes to discussing economic matters. Probably in the top two of stupid counter-arguments. Also known as a straw man.

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no Europes problems are not ours> sometime ago the powers of the U’S’[not you or I] decided that the there should be a Global financial society. Money would move effortlessly around the world, much like Chinas pollution floats effortlessly towards the U.S.. One global market is one gigantic loser for everyone. the sooner we depend solely on ourselves the better[Monroe Doctrine]

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I stubbed my toe last night walking to the bathroom. I blame George Bush.

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All by design…

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If Obama wins in 2012, the answer is YES. Reason is, his spending is worse than any country in Europe. We are basically turning into Greece, with all the entitlements, bailouts, etc. Obama is taking us closer to true Socialism than anyone ever thought of. For this reason alone, Obama must be voted out. If you need a job or a better job, you must vote GOP. Case closed.

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Joe–I will!

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Other than Bookie’s little barney frank snippet at the end of his article, how did this blog inquiring whether the US will inherent Europe’s problems (as long as Obama is POTUS and strives to install Keynesian-based economic policies and re-distribute the wealth, I think yes) to a discussion on homosexuality? Oh well, might join in the fray. Let’s look at it scientifically, shall we? Since male-male and female-female cannot precreate and reproduce the species, which at its basic level is what sex is all about, then one can say, from a scientific/biological standpoint, that yes, homsexuality is abnormal. Then again, is half of what is said about all these celeb sex tapes is true, een the hetero stuff can be pretty abnormal too.
Bottom line. Who here wants to see gays beaten, cast out, denied basic rights, etc? And to amp it up a bit more, I follow the Tea Party, and conservative, and religious. And while there are some things I’m not comfortable with which pertain to homosexuality, my Christian upbringing is such that what a person does will be judged by God, not me. In other words, I don’t walk around with a pocket full of stones. Let the debates begin anew!

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I look at it from the other direction – if we don’t allow ourselves to get into this mess in the first place with immense social programs we have no idea how to fund and let debt exceed GDP by the margin the troubled EU countries have, we won’t have to cut austerity programs and cause the doom that most of you are forecasting. How about…we don’t follow them down the socialized everything path that got them in this position in the first place?

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Truth – of course there’s a debt pro0blem. It’s casued by all those evil rich nor being willing to give away all their hard earned money to those who execpt everything to be handed to them without having to work a lick for it. Jeez, haven’t you been reading Bookie’s columns for long?

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Yes, we can blame the EU for ills here in the USA. Or, we can ‘fess up and admit that throwing money at our problems did not alleviate them. Running the deficit up to such unfathomable numbers can do nothing but add to the world’s ills and impact the EU just as much as it impacts the USA. Nice job, Washington DC…………….let’s not re-elect any of them.

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Send No taxpayers money to Europe, Africa, Asia, or the Middleast period. We need to fix our own Country first than we can help others. Why doesn’t Obama ask his mentors the Communist Red China to bail Europe out since they have all the money? What about that my liberal friends. Why does America which is flat broke have to be the worlds savior? It’s about time some of these Countries reap what they sow. We need an AMERICAN President not a wouldbe part-time world leader like Obama. And get us out of All of these wars Bush’s and Obama’s. Bring our People Home and defend our own borders.

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And Jay-

instead of silly remarks about Frank, how about an article about his defense of Fannie Mae at thesame time he was playing hide the winkie with a Fannie Mae executive? I’d love your take on that situation-

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Corey
November 29th, 2011
4:26 pm

“Jay, do you write these columns to enlighten us, provoke conversation or entertain us via absurd retorts posted on here by the right out there in your reading audience? I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say to enlighten us and provoke conversation, but the ridiculous retorts from the right are entertaining byproducts.”

Do you actually feel “enlightened” and “provoked” to conversation, or are you
making an addition to the ridiculous byproducts?

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“How much protection does thousands of miles of ocean provide?”
Hopefully enough.

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