As share of GDP, profits soar and paychecks plummet

What’s the point of this article? I don’t see anything about possible solutions to anything…just pointing out a fact.

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the reality of President Obama is not the delusion of the
right or the left. He is left centrist and has followed the
course mapped out by his predecessors and his promises.
His personal habits and family values could not be better
for a candidate. I would describe him as a brilliant pragmatic
politician and a fearless one.

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It’s pretty obvious that the haters need a theme to cover up their irrational prejudices…

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Check this out….
AJC HEADLINE ***Gas prices dropping; may stay down through 2011***

http://www.ajc.com/business/gas-prices-dropping-may-1243328.html

Now since the Right screamed their blame of the President when Gas Prices were high, does he now get to take the credit since they are falling?

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Jay, you’re wrong. Wages are going up. Take a look at this chart.

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The way I see it, there is a world wide labor market glut. This is increasing profits but reducing the purchasing power of consumers. The meager increase in the wealth of the Chinese worker is not enough to drive the world economy especially with their barriers to trade. Tax policy can’t fix this and we are just wasting time pretending that it can. We are on an unsustainable path.

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pea,

Baby steps.

Be patient.

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Soothsayer, compare GDP in china to GDP in the US…

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Anyone else notice that whenever Jay puts up a chart, there are two things that are consistent:

1. Things begin to gradually diverge around 1980

2.Things seem to rapidily diverge around 2000.

The only time that the two graphs are even remotely in sync is around 2008 -2009 when everyone got slammmed across the board. However, since then, the trajectories seem to continue the upward/downward track, and it’s NEVER in favor on the wages side. Not pointing fingers, just curious as to how the party faithful account for this under 30 years of “trickle down” economic policy.

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“what about trickle down?” – Like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTpKOFte6JE – American Pie Stiffler Getting Pissed On

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frog, the Central Government sets the GDP in China since it is a command economy.

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getalife – “Do you know the percentage of our gdp made by our too big to fail banks?”

I believe that it’s somewhere around 77%.

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getalife, i think 7-8% but I don’t remember where that came from
and i’m too lazy to look it up..

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soothsayer, so no china figures can be relied on?

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Tbs
Marginal

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Butch Cassidy 12:23

Oh dear. Lots of ignorance displayed in your post

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“6 banks control 66 % of our gdp.”

More ignorance

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The issue is are the every day worker in the U<S. living in a substandard way and the answer is an emphatic no. H/she does not. The every day worker has flat screen tv, late model car, plentiful food and good schools for his children. The Captains of industry are getting richer, they are smarter for one thing. They invest in the market where the workers invest only in their creature comforts.

It is time to get off the dime and give credit where it is due. There are no sweat shops, child labor or unheALTHY working conditions, the workers of the country haVE NOTHING TO COmplain about

I have said it all, times could not be better.

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Comparing assets to income production (GDP) is apples to oranges

Fact #1: liberals don’t know what they’re talking about

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jm,

Just use one name because Jay busted you again.

Do you have mental problems?

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Here ya go Jm

When we contacted Sanders’ office, a spokesman provided testimony to a congressional oversight panel by Simon Johnson, a professor of entrepreneurship at the MIT Sloan School of
Management. “Our six largest bank holding companies currently have assets valued at just over 63 percent of GDP,” Johnson testified, citing figures for the fourth quarter of 2010. “This is up from around 55 percent of GDP before the crisis (e.g., 2006) and no more than 17 percent of GDP in 1995.”

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“soothsayer, so no china figures can be relied on?”

Not that. The GDP numbers are real. It’s just that the Chinese government determines what the GDP will be. If they say 8%, then 8% it is.

The easiest way to reach these GDP numbers is by building apartments. That’s why China has over 65,000,000 vacant apartment high rises.

They are vacant because the workers shown in my previous chart cannot afford them.

I post a short video on this subject in a minute.

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Butch

That is an irrelevant metric

That’s like saying if you have a million dollars in assets and you make $50,000, then you’re a menace because of you’re wealth

It’s nonsensical

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Botch. I mean butch.

Compare bank assets to national wealth. Or financial services income to GDP.

Don’t mix the ratios.

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I merely responded to the question asked by getalife.

“Sanders’ math is correct — in fact, the percentage he offers is actually a little low. And he’s careful to say only that the banks’ assets are only “equivalent” to 60 percent of the United States’ GDP, not that the banks own 60 percent of the United States. Sanders doesn’t note that big banks in other countries are far bigger, compared to their nations’ GDP, than the U.S. banks are. Still, on balance, we rate his statement True.

But hey, as long as the banks are growing and not lending, you should be happy as a clam.

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Frog, watch this short (14 min) video and you’ll understand what I’m talking about.

I posted this over the weekend, but I think everyone would be enlightened to watch it. Especially to see how the average Chinese worker lives.

Cursor down and press play.

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durbin told you the banks own congress and that will not change until we replace their control of our gdp.

Give me a green energy sector that controls the majority of our gdp and they will give away cars to come to work again.

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Obama is not left of center

He is weak and very left (though not out in lunatic territory like some of those here)

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Soothsayer – ” Especially to see how the average Chinese worker lives.”

BINGO! You’ve neatly shown how simply lowering taxes wil have zip, nada, no effect on returning jobs to our shores. That is unless Wal Mart can still make a profit selling jeans for $9.00 a pair while paying an American worker $80.00 a day to do the same job as Ming Lee who currently makes $9.00 a day. But then again, economic reality seems to pass most people by in favor of Obozo jokes and statements about “wealth envy”.

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MARY LIZ,

I guess to sound dull, what is the problem with the greater class distinctions as mentioned? Also, what is the fix if truly needed? How much is due to corruption, technology gains, service vs manufacturing economy, global trade, et al? Are you suggesting the top 10% who already pay 73% of personal taxes are obligated to surrender assets or pay more of the freight because the economy is in the tank? Do we owe all college graduates guaranteed jobs and free education despite cyclical job markets?

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“Now, which…narrative should you accept?”

Just out of curiosity, Jay, what percentage of the GDP should equal acceptable government spending levels? Do you even have an upper limit? In other words, what should be the size and role of government in America?

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Jay, charts don’t provide repair solutions only political diversions intended to spin a failed presidency.

Make sure you warm up before you make a stretch like that. You’ll end up pulling both hamstrings and a groin all at the same time. A chart providing data over 50 years to spin one presidency? I would fail to see how someone would come to such a conclusion from that, but I guess if you put on your supery dupery conservative thinking cap, then yeah, it’s quite obvious that Obama has been screwing up wages in relation to GDP since he started walking.

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AmVet @ 12:27

You know I’m down 110% with the public funded election system. Too bad the SCOTUS isn’t.

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godless heathen

“And what is President Obama doing to reverse the trend?”

Most importantly he’s not offering up failed supply side policies.

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“Should you subscribe to Narrative #2, you have to confront the fact that the long-term trends documented in the charts above show no signs of abating. To the contrary, there is every reason to believe that wages and salaries will continue to fall as a proportion of economic output, and that corporate after-tax profits will continue to increase.”

Granted, some will not see that as a problem. But for those of us who do, it lays out the situation pretty well. So now we ask: what’s happened in 50 years to contribute to this? I’ll submit at least part of it is corporate buying of laws that favor their interests over any others. Solution? Bring our tax treatment back to what it was a few decades ago.

Now wait for the cries of how that’s socialism.

In the 60s?

BWAHAHAHA -

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“Let me, also, underscore that we did not fall into a Depression, and that we have slowly pulled away from the brink of that abyss.”

Not as yet. But we are not all that far from the ledge even now.

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“We are taking baby steps and now we see bloggers admitting their party is corrupt.”

You are, of course, speaking of cons AND libs here.

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Peadawg: What’s the point of this article? I don’t see anything about possible solutions to anything…just pointing out a fact.

I know Jay already said this, but it bears repeating for YOU ALL.

If you can’t agree on what the problem IS, then you will NEVER find a solution at all.

To be completely honest, I think the entire conservative mindset on things like the economy and climate change are designed entirely to avoid solving a problem simply by pretending the problem doesn’t exist for as long as you can get away with it.

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Stevie,

We are getting our butts whooped on renewable energy by China and Europe.

Other countries know the bank’s control of their gdp needs to be replaced with something other than selling paper.

We are not there yet but are getting there.

Try reading about how our banks make so much money.

It gives me a headache.

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To me, these graphs show that companies have gotten more efficient and eliminated waste. At the same time, holding back growth initiatives due to uncertainty with the current administration, inaction with congress, and the outcome with ObamaCare.

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Jay,

You missed a whole lot of possibilities.

We might say that through globalization, wages are becoming more stagnant and won’t increase significantly until the world (not the country) is at full employment.

We might debate about whether the companies profits are wholly US based or if only a fraction of it is due to the multinational nature of companies today.

We might even discuss the role of government should play in supporting wages and maintaining a certain standard of living without resorting to rhetorical tactics.

What do you think?

Or we might

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wes,

How does globalization help the American worker?

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Wes: Your arguments read like trying to construct a building without having a foundation to build on.

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Sooth,

An interesting film on China’s ghost cities. I remember ten years ago my wife and I took a tour from Hong Kong to Guangzhou. When we passed over the border into mainland China the first city was Shenzhen. It was filled with modern buildings, modern clean streets and no people. We only saw a few people riding bikes. We asked the tour guide why we didn’t see folks out on the streets. It was like a ghost town. The tour guide explained that the government only built it for show and hoping it would one day compete with Hong Kong. The drive of about 150 miles up to Guangzhou through the South China rural areas showed the real China where most of the people live in severe poverty.

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Granny

Nope. Even tho they mouth the words day after day, when confronted with data, they go silent.

Until the next thread.

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GETALIFE,

The only issue I have with GREEN anything is that any success we can possibly have (I’m still a denier about the whole Climate hoax relative to if we have a problem and if so, is any of it man-made-made but let’s wait til Jay posts something at further date to fight over that) will not result in many jobs in the remote near term. We may be getting our asses kicked by China but the technolgy is does not pass the cost/benefit analysis. Also, see the list of stimulus GREEN investments to date as well as the cronyism involved in this as well as SMARTGRID relative to jobs in toto or those shipped overseas….I can’t afford to purchase any solar panels that will not give me payback in less than 3 years, I can’t afford a 85,000 Telsa, nor do I want the FED’s to be wired into my home monitoring and adjusting my usage. My suggestion is to keep investing in technology that gets us off the oil addiction but with appropriate expectations that in the near term, if we push too hard, this will become another competitive disadvantage for us…

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[T]he average American has become so apathetic, willfully ignorant of facts and reality, distracted by the techno-gadgets that run their lives, uninterested in anything beyond next week’s episode of Dancing with the Stars or Jersey Shore, and willing to let the corporate media moguls form their opinions for them through relentless propaganda, the only thing that will get their attention is an absolute collapse of our economic scheme. Uninformed, unconcerned, intellectually vacant Americans will get exactly that in the not too distant future.

Great article! Well worth reading.

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“Make sure you warm up before you make a stretch like that. You’ll end up pulling both hamstrings and a groin all at the same time. A chart providing data over 50 years to spin one presidency? I would fail to see how someone would come to such a conclusion from that,”

Maybe you should look at through the reality of business economics instead of through the prism of a government job. You might better understand.

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“So no one will come right out and say “I support Narrative 1″?”

Do you know what a false dichotomy is?

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MARYLIZ,

Appreciate your thoughtful response and yes, I am sincere about my queries. I don’t disagree with your premise but the idea that the downtrodden class (not sure definition which could make a difference in debate) is working to enable the 1%. A vast majority of 1%’ers are wealthy by birth…see Kennedys, Gores, Bush’s, and most of the other 3 million or so as designated. They’ve had their money for generations. Many have used wealth to create jobs in heavy industry which has been all but lost due to our inability to balance our trade relationships, technology, among other things. No more Borders, steel manufacturing, textiles, we can’t plumb for oil unfortunately which could create a couple million jobs, plastics, toys, the list goes on and on. Complex in its simplicity…

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Brosephus

Well, I had a bit of hope, but now, it’s on to mocking!

Strawman

I believe Jay merely lifted narrative 1 from what we read posted here day after day after day – then provided the data to ask ‘can you please reconcile your views with the data?”

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Granny,

So you measure Obama’s success by what he does not do? Well, we can agree that the less he does the better.

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Well, at least Lipitor goes off patent on Wednesday – that should lower one cost for a whole lot of folks.

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POLITICS, noun: A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage….

POLITICIAN, noun: An eel in the fundamental mud upon which the superstructure of organized society is reared. When he wriggles, he mistakes the agitation of his tail for the trembling of the edifice. As compared to the statesman, he has the distinct advantage of being alive..

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Reason leads one to believe that if profits “soar” more is produced and more are hired. Also, my paycheck has not decreased, so once again, your slanted point of view is negated…as usual.

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Since Obama hasn’t been campaigning on his record which of course he can’t I guess we’ll see more and more fog on the blog.

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One of the quickest ways to increase the wages of earners, especially the self employed would be to grandfather in workers comp into obamacare as a lump package, then allow the government to go after cases where negligence was found by the company they work for. People don’t realize what a drain it is on tradesmen, percentage paid in versus earnings made as a tradesman thanks to competing with illegals, as well as amount paid in versus amount paid out in a claim. Most tradesmen wont even use it on smaller claims for fear of rates going up.

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Maybe he should campaign on his record:
-got bin laden
-saved the auto industry
-no more pre-conditions for insurance
-stimulus saved or created milions of jobs
-ended iraq war

Republican congress?

-made sure in god we trust was ratified
-caused credit downgrade because of tea party lunatics
-keeps fighting for tax cuts for millionaires & billionaires
-filibusters every jobs bill presented

to name a few…

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Citizenship requires a person to be actively engaged in the community with obligations to fellow citizens and future generations. Consumerism requires people to love things, embrace debt, worry about what others have, and become driven by the accumulation of possessions and the appearance of wealth. The disgusting exhibition that Madison Avenue maggots have coined Black Friday is the ultimate display of consumerism. In a nauseating display of senseless spending driven by retail conglomerates, Americans act like Pavlov’s salivating dogs by lining up for hours to stampede over and pepper spray other consumers to get the ultimate deal on that Chinese made toaster oven, Vietnamese made laptop, Korean made HDTV, or Mexican made tortilla maker. They don’t seem to grasp the irony of going deeper into debt buying cheap crap made in foreign countries by the workers who took their jobs.

GOD! I love this guy!

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Mr. Obama, why can’t you lift that boulder all by yourself? You know, the one that was teetering on the edge of the cliff 1983-2008 and crashed to the ground in the fall of 08.

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Spent more than all other 43 President’s before him in 2 years time
Grew the debt without cutting spending
Practiced Socialism with all the bailouts instead of letting businesses go under
Unemployment still at 9+
Solyndra
Spent 8 million in a stimulus package that resulted in 2 jobs in Oregon
Occupy everything–praised the lunatics
800 rounds of golf

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godless heathen

so you decide what other people think based on evidence to the contrary.

we can agree on the fact that you can’t accept that President Obama has been effective in getting the clean up of the Bush Recession underway.

godless….it shows

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Solyndra! Socialism!

Anyone want to throw in Soros? I have a bingo card ready!

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-got bin laden
No he didn’t get OBL. The CIA and SEAL Team Six got him. The intelligence had been developed over several years before Obama even set foot in office. He had no other choice but to approve the mission.
-saved the auto industry
No he saved union jobs not the industry.
-no more pre-conditions for insurance
Big deal, for anyone belonging to a group plan with a pre-existing condition they could change plans without losing coverage. That provision had been in place since the mid-90’s.
-stimulus saved or created milions of jobs
That’s a pipe dream look at the reality of our unemployment issue.

-ended iraq war
No he’s withdrawing all U.S. troops from Iraq. He’s ended nothing and could very well be creating defeat out of victory by going against the recommendations of the military chiefs.

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Solyndra? Socialist?

How about Obama is not really an American? That is a popular one now.

You can draw your own absurd conclusion when you ask such an open question. The right-wing gets more idiotic every day.

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Jay makes a clear point about corporate profits obviously not being hindered by over-regulation…

However the chart for personal wage and salary income clearly shows this is not a political issue, it’s a systematic phenomenon… It’s been going down for almost 50 years regardless of who is in control of government…

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Without Obama Seal Team Six would have done nothing. Obama ALONE said he would go into Pakistan without permission.

McCain and Hillary said they would not.

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recon’s fantasy responses:

**The intelligence had been developed over several years before Obama even set foot in office.**

Funny, then why didn’t the previous guy take action?

**No he saved union jobs not the industry**

Do you even have a clue about all the peripheral jobs that go along with cars being made in america? Unions? – keep beating that dead horse of an excuse

**That’s a pipe dream look at the reality of our unemployment issue.**

Just think what the numbers would be without the stimulus

Bottom line is that you just hate the president and that is as far as you can see…

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“So, now that we know there is a problem, without assigning blame, what can we do to fix it? What are the practical things we can do, without naming people who would potentially get in the way or make things worse? What would be the ideal solution, without naming or blaming people or institutions?”

How about becoming more educated and competitive as a society? Seems like we have a larger percentage of people now who don’t think they need to work hard, don’t think they need to pay their obligations, don’t think they need to be educated…

If you’re looking for the government to come in and save the day you’ll be waiting for a while…

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Adam,

Once more Bush is no longer in office and after serving two terms cannot run again.

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WOODSTOCK: How about becoming more educated and competitive as a society? Seems like we have a larger percentage of people now who don’t think they need to work hard, don’t think they need to pay their obligations, don’t think they need to be educated…

I agree with your first statement, but I told you not to assign blame and you went down that road anyway. Please restrain yourself.

The populace should be more educated and our country should be more competitive. How will you accomplish this?

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Well, looky here, gas prices keep on dropping – let’s blame obama…

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“The populace should be more educated and our country should be more competitive. How will you accomplish this?”

People have to decide to do it Adam, the government can only try to assist, if people don’t decide to do it, it will never happen.

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Adam, part of the solution is to promote domestic job production and higher pay through tax incentives e.g. minimal if any tax credits for low wage jobs, and increased tax credits for higher paying jobs up to a reasonable level (maybe 3 times the poverty level?) , and disincentivize overcompensation by raising the top tax rates to confiscatory levels. Companies will stop paying execs 10s and hundreds of millions if it all gets pissed away on taxes, when their bottom line will look better if they use that money instead to pay their lower level workers more.

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WOODSTOCK: Seriously, we need to get off this blame thing if we’re going to solve problems. You’re saying we haven’t really identified the problem unless we explore every nook and cranny of every corner of everyone’s lives until we find every minute reason that we are in a mess, and… then what? Look for more blame?

We need to focus on solving problems, not continually trying to find fault in every aspect of reality.

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WOODSTOCK: People have to decide to do it Adam, the government can only try to assist, if people don’t decide to do it, it will never happen.

That’s not an answer. What do people have to decide to do, specifically? What does government have to do to assist?

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Mick….Trust me…The prices will be back up in time for the next election.

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“Then, I’ll play the trump card — the Muslim card”

trump card or Trump card?

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saywhat?: Companies will stop paying execs 10s and hundreds of millions if it all gets pissed away on taxes, when their bottom line will look better if they use that money instead to pay their lower level workers more.

Not sure I buy that this would be the response, but it IS a thought.

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How about becoming more educated and competitive as a society?

More competitive? I believe that is a specious argument.

In those forty years of flat lined wages, the productivity of American workers has doubled.

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Hey back to you, WOODSTOCK MIKE @2:17

I repeat, I have no problem with a wealthy class. I just want to also see a vibrant Middle Class, which you and I are both part of. But, that is not happening today.

I do not know the statistics for wealth variance for our original colonists, but I do know that the author/president who penned the words, “All men are created equal” believed strongly that wealth must not become centralized into the hands of an elite few, or our nation’s very existence as a Democratic/Republic would be in jeopardy. He warned of this on many occasions and within his private letters which I have read. And Jefferson was of the wealthy elite himself; but he valued the ideas of democracy, freedom of thought, and egalitarianism more than he valued class status.

The wealty elite classes basically hated FDR and they called him a “traitor to his class” because they wanted to insure that the powers of government would be used primarily to protect their interests. FDR was a president who put the people’s interests first, and he said that he “welcomed” the hatred that the wealthy, upper classes had toward him. (Notice that today’s Republicans still hate FDR and his policies). Don’t worry about the wealthy; they will always look after themselves and their interests first. Better to put your thoughts into how to force politicians to serve the best interests of ALL of the public instead of primarily the interests of the wealthy elite – who have grown very powerful in the last decades – of which Jefferson so fervently warned against.

Over and out for today.

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saywhat?: The bottom line is all they understand Adam. If the bottom line looks better when your workers are paid more than when they are paid less or laid off, which would you do?

CEOs and board members are not completely emotionless. If hit with a sudden tax increase, they will panic and likely not react exactly as expected.

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Make a $100.00 purchase at Walmart pay sales tax.
Make a $100,000,000. purchase at the stock market pay no sales tax.
Why?

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I guess like a piece of art there will be 1000’s of opinions. With the acceleration of globalization our (weak) current and (weak) past President are losing the economic poker game with India/China/Asia. The US has high unemployment and real wage declines while the opposite is happening in the East.

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Why?

uh- one is a good or service as the other is an intangible not subject to sales tax. You may want to add up all the SEC and other federal fees that go with the stock purchase.

Buy a chevy volt and pay sales tax and have a battery that catches on fire. Don’t pay sales tax to have your wisdom teeth pulled? Why?

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Profits may be soaring but the wealthiest are still paying some taxes sometimes and that just will not do for a Republican. They cannot destroy the US as long as the wealthiest are required to pay any taxes at all. Now, payroll taxes are a different matter. Little people pay payroll taxes and the wealthiest get the benefit from them so payroll taxes need to be higher, not lower. By the way, will the Newt campaign on jobs like his fellow Republican party members did in 2010 or will he just hand out free bars of soap instead.

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What really drives wage inequity? Is it the big bad corporation, or the fact that Johnny is unable to read, write, spell, or think for himself. As an employer I am sick and tired of college graduates coming into our business wanting to start for top dollar but willing to do only the bare minimum. What has gotten lost in the inequity discussion is the other half of the equation; are you willing to work hard enough to become the top performer and get paid as such? My experience would incicate the answer to this question is a resounding NO.
I’m sorry if this approach does not fit the liberal agenda, but if you are honest with yourself I think you will have to agree we are in the midst of a generation of takers not producers.

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thomas

You think kia has any plans to give their employees a raise or should they just be happy to have a job?

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Those evil corporations again making money, maybe we should just have the government run them they will do a better job right? By the way making profit is why you form a corporation, and the shareholders make money also, so if you have a 401K retirement fund then you own parts of cooperation’s and if they make money so do you, that is just evil right lefties?

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‘Nearly unending numbers…’

The BS is strong in this one, Luke…

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david

Can I get some of what you are smoking? You definately are buzzed..

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Recon: I will say since you seem to want to bring it up that I do agree with over 50% of the population that Obamacare should be repealed because there’s not much good in it.

So if I run over every single provision that’s good in the bill, and you basically go “well yeah BUT it’s just a little bandaid” to each one, am I to take it that this does NOT mean that the sum of the parts is overall good? And shall we go back to you telling me what’s WRONG with the bill and explaining why, if you agree with the rest of it, legislation can’t be introduced to repeal just the parts you don’t like instead of the whole damn thing?

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I think your charts represent advances in technology that have replaced human beings in corporate America over the past decade. Entire divisions of companies have been replaced by software programs. It is called disruptive technology. Rather than some nefarious political conspiracy, the decline in wages is an unfortunate function of companies simply not needing as many people. The newspaper industry is a great example of this trend as the way people communicate has fundamentally changed.

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On behalf of vegetable lovers and growers everywhere, I am boycotting the big, greedy, uber-profitable corporation that sells fried chicken sandwiches and lard-filled breakfast biscuits to the obese, self-indulgent masses. They make a billion dollars a year, and they’re picking on independent citizens who grow GREENS on their land — for daring to promote their GREENS for local consumption? Never eating that garbage again, and by the way, those “fries” totally suck.

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This ongoing myth of obama the socialist, business destroying president, has gone so far off the rails that it has become an hallucination believed by the masses of foolish minds who are weak and easily programmed…

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Here’s another thing… I bet if you tested a high school grad in 1970, they would test as more knowledgeable than a lot of current day college grads. So as a population we are less knowledgeable, and probably deserve to be paid less. When you have an urban culture that looks upon hard work and study in school as a bad thing, it should be expected that average wages have gone down.

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When you have an urban culture that looks upon hard work and study in school as a bad thing, it should be expected that average wages have gone down.

So what’s the excuse for the non-urban dragging down test scores?

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“However, with the blind hatred of anything Obama,”
So you’re saying that because I don’t believe Obama is up to the job as president and that the country needs a change, I harbor a blind hatred for Barack Obama. Did you make those kind of assumptions about people you didn’t even know personally as a retail store manager?

No, there isn’t anything else.

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thomas 3:12 you cannot use a resale certificate at WalMart as
they do not wholesale and the intangible is exempt from sales tax
because Congress says it is…another example of ‘fair tax’

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I have believed this for a while, and I think it is becoming clear to see:

52 billion was spent on Black Friday… our economy should be booming. However, unlike ever before, corporations are getting more and more of the money we spend. The profits don’t go back into the economy except for the $8 an hour jobs and some typical managerial positions, which doesn’t make anyone better off. Instead, the money is going to the countries, like China, that make the products. The rest goes into the pockets of these CEOs and owners. That doesn’t change our economy. I get off at any given exit and all you see is giant companies, the same ones as every other exit, where the money DOESN’T stay in our local economy.
I’m all for capitalism, but this isn’t sustainable. You can’t use the same arguments as 20, 40 years ago… this type of capitalism is unprecendented, and will only continue. Those companies don’t care, they are making billions. It’s up to us as consumers and citizens to change it.

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And if recent years haven’t demonstrated how little oversight there is to the point where even elections where all the incumbents get booted that nothing changes, then nothing ever will convince you fools that handing more money and power to the government that already has money and power dwarfing all the rich people and corporations in the world is a BAD idea.

How about this for logic??? The re-election rate for Representatives has not been lower than 80% since 1964. For Senators, the only time less than 80% have not been re-elected since Reagan took office was 1986 (75%), 2000 (79%), and 2006 (79%). I’m not sure what election you’re referencing in saying that all incumbents got booted, but we have not had anything remotely resembling that since 1980 when only 55% of incumbent Senators won re-election. Even with that happening in the Senate, 91% of House incumbents won re-election that same year.

http://www.opensecrets.org/bigpicture/reelect.php

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I loves me some statistics! Thanks, Brosephus!

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Jimmy62 – “When you have an urban culture that looks upon hard work and study in school as a bad thing, it should be expected that average wages have gone down.”

Agreed, then why not hire the 40 + crowd that have not only the education but also the experience? If todays college grad isn’t worth the paper the diploma is printed on, then the obvious solution would be to turn to the older folks that know what they’re doing. Unfortunately, the latter does require to be paid in accordance with their experience and background, which inherently cuts into the sacred corporate profits. So what will it be, slackers that can’t read or write but work on the cheap, or experience and knowledge that require compensation commensurate with their background?

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“This ongoing myth of obama the socialist, business destroying president, has gone so far off the rails that it has become an hallucination believed by the masses of foolish minds who are weak and easily programmed…”

Mick, I don’t believe that the majority of Americans are weak and easily programmed, although I’d agree that some probably are. The issue isn’t about myths or hallucinations, it’s about the results metric. People haven’t been seeing positive economic results along with suspect foreign policy decisions. As the polls suggest if the national elections were to be held today Obama would likely lose.

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Thanks Jay, but I’m afraid your detractors would rather hear Herman Cain say, “If you’re not rich, and you don’t have a job it’s your fault.” Maybe they would rather hear Newt say, “Get a job and take a bath.”

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‘As the polls suggest if the national elections were to be held today Obama would likely lose.’

Not according to Rasmussen…

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/archive/election_2012_archive/november_2011/election_2012_obama_44_romney_38

And…

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/archive/election_2012_archive/november_2011/election_2012_obama_46_gingrich_40

And, don’t forget ol’ Herman…

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/archive/election_2012_archive/november_2011/election_2012_obama_46_cain_36

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“Change the way you present yourself, and you change how people perceive you.”

I don’t feel any compelling reason to change how I present myself on Jay’s blog. BTW…don’t you think that statement comes across a bit pompous? Rather than assume that I and others you say refuse to acknowledge Obama’s successes and therefore hate him why don’t you list all of his accomplishments and present arguments on that basis. You left wingers come up with everything other than stating specific accomplishments Obama’s delivered, instead you just dismiss those who disagree with your political opinions as haters.

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Adam

November 28th, 2011
2:14 pm

Solyndra! Socialism!

Anyone want to throw in Soros? I have a bingo card ready!

Adam, you are getting slow, way too late. I know the DNC wants better of you with you timely updates

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Back Seater: Adam, you are getting slow, way too late. I know the DNC wants better of you with you timely updates

Someone said Soros and I missed it? Damn, you’re right. I am getting slow. Better drink more coffee tomorrow….

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You left wingers come up with everything other than stating specific accomplishments Obama’s delivered, instead you just dismiss those who disagree with your political opinions as haters.

So, because I don’t parrot the GOP speak as you and others do, you automatically presume I’m a left winger. Did you make those same kinds of perceptions of your chain of command while you were in the Marines?

I’ve never listed any successes or failures of Obama because I believe it is way too early to judge his administration. Believing as I do, I don’t see any successes as of this date. I also don’t see any failures. You have not heard me champion any successes, so your feeble attempt to link me to Obama cheerleaders is as much a failure as you perceive Obama to be.

Also, I don’t think that statement is any more pompous than anything else said here as people seem to believe they are right 100% of the time and never wrong. I see many here call Obama a complete failure, but not a single thing that is actually a failure has been listed. That’s just as pompous of you to call him a failure, when he has not even finished his term. So, don’t come at me being pompous when you’re doing the exact same thing.

As far as changing how you present yourself, you have done that whether you see it or not. When we first exchanged dialogue on this blog, you never came off as one of the far right ramblers. However, nowadays, I haven’t seen you post too much of anything that has not been an anti-Obama tirade or something to that effect. I can’t tell whether your words are angry or not as there’s no way to perceive your context just by reading words, but if it doesn’t pertain to the far right agenda, I haven’t seen any positve from you.

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or something else?

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Schrodinger’s cat

November 28th, 2011
4:09 pm

He will need to consult is DNA playbook before he replies

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Just like with global warming, someone sees a snipet of a correlation and tries to assert a causation. The depression of wages can also be attributed to the globalization of the workforce, wherein lower wage countries depress the salaries of domestic workers. So, how are you going to fix that? increase tariffs? do that, and our domestic products will be taxed to oblivion overseas. Tax the wealthy? Tax corporations more? do that, and see our jobs move even more offshore.

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Schrodinger’s Cat: do you feel like you represent a party, an ideology, something greater than yourself, the 99%, or yourself?

Mostly myself, and if that happens to align with other stuff then, ok I guess? It’d be nice to find a party, ideology, or something else that supports ALL of the same stuff I do, but I don’t think that exists.

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Don’t buy into the bogus lower wage argument.

Add up your monthly expenses. Energy, food, insurance, property taxes, education expenses. More than 3/4 of your monthly expenses are at American wage rates, not foreign wage rates.

It’s just a red herring.

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So what’s your solution Jay?? Take money and redistribute it?

It’s simple, if you don’t feel like you make enough money, then go find another job…it’s that simple. I’ve yet to find anywhere in the Constitution that says we have a right to a certain wage.

Don’t tell me there aren’t any good jobs. If you are good at what you do, you can ALWAYS find work. Or, get with some of your co workers and organize a walk out. The bottom line is, corporations will pay less if you let them. However, if you are bringing in a lot of business to them; just see how they will bend over backwards to keep you as an employee. Thats the way it works folks…its not that hard to understand.

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We keep hearing all this about there being too many regulations and rules preventing businesses from starting and supposedly it’s because of the current administration being “anti-business”. But they were calling him anti-business before he even took office. And no one can seem to point to all these stifling regulations that have occurred since his election. When did Congress pass all of these horrible policies that he signed into law and why hasn’t the current Congress set out to repeal them?

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What is your point Jay? Is it that Corporate taxes need to be raised? That the evil rich need to be taxed more? What is it? You can’t make corporations or individuals pay someone a higher wage. Sure you can tax more but that money is not going to get back to those wage earners, it will simply go to the government to spend in even more bizarre ways. We all know it won’t go to the deficict, it will go to more government programs, that we won’t be able to afford over any length of time.

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Jack — “Profits don’t always go into the owner’s pockets. There’s equipment to buy and notes to service if he’s going to stay in business.”

That’s not profit. That’s capital expenditures in the first case (for equipment, the cost of which, BTW, you can probably amortize and possibly even write off) and operating expenses in the second case.

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Does the wages and salary chart include fringe benefits that accrue to the benefit of employees? If not, it probably should and would probably flatten the curve a bit. Corporate profits have been driven by technology that has resulted in higher efficiency. For example, a lot of human labor has been replaced by robots in the automobile industry. Robots require a capital investment and operating and maintenance cost, but they don’t require healthcare and subsistance after they are retired. With information technology executives can now manage large and diversified enterprises with fewer managers. Efficiency is a good thing and the result should be increased profitability. I believe the problem here is a disconnect between what industry needs and what labor provides. I attribute this problem to our educational system and labor that is more interested in the status quo than the future. If this doesn’t change, the trend will continue as you suggest. The fix isn’t with the stroke of a pen (redistribution through legislation); it will require a lot of hard work, pain, and suffering and this is no longer politically feaible, absent a major crisis.

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That’s hard to believe since you seem to challenge my posts where I clearly state my dissatisfaction with his performance. If you really don’t have a point of view you’re really in no position to challenge those of us who do have one. Should you comment on my posts in disagreement again please have the courage to present your counterpoints.

The only view I’ve formed about Obama is that he has no backbone. I’ve stated that here numerous times. As I said, “I”, meaning my opinion, is that you can’t judge someone as a success/failure while they’re still doing the job. You won’t hear me call Obama a success or a failure, nor will you hear me call Bush one. I have no problem with stating things I think he’s done that is wrong, but just because he did something wrong doesn’t necessarily equate to failure.

I didn’t agree with Obama sending more troops to Afghanistan. I didn’t agree with getting involved, in any form, in Libya. I didn’t and still don’t agree with his lack of effort in nominating people for vacancies in the different agencies. If you wanna put a finger on why the government appears to run in circles, just look at the number of agencies that do not have a leader and are being run by interim selections. I didn’t agree with the stimulus plan as it came out because I think it was inadequate and misdirected for what the intent was.

At the same time, I applauded Obama for essentially shutting down Guantanamo Detention Center. Instead of capturing combatants and holding them, his policy appears to be just blow them away. It essentially saves tax dollars because we’re not housing and feeding someone indefinitely. I applauded Obama’s effort (as limited as it was) to try to negotiate a deal during the debt debate. I also applauded his lack of interaction with the super committee as Congress essentially gave him the finger when he tried to negotiate before. Any deal that’s done has to be legislated by Congress, so they should do their job instead of crying that Obama’s not doing it for them.

All things considered, I won’t say he’s a failure or success because he’s still doing the job. That’s about the best way I can explain it to you. If that doesn’t clear things up, then it’s about all I can do online.

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I loves me some reliable facts, Jay – why I’m a Democrat, why I’ve read your blog (and Cynthia’s when she was in production), and why I never watch Fox News. But since this is the South, where prejudice, not reliable facts, rule our politics and attitudes,,,well, you know the rest. But when will it end, if, in fact, it ever does?

We always hurt ourselves more with this stuff than anybody else, but still we go on, like somehow we think we’re right and everybody else is wrong, and that if we can just believe that things are different than what the facts tell us, life will get better (in a prejudiced sort of way).

I’m sorry for what’s coming for us, for it’s the ones who live in the real world that will always come out on top, and that ain’t the South. While we’re still sitting around waiting for the Old South to rise again, the rest of the country (and world) will be moving up to the next level and the one after that and so on, until we’re nothing we thought we wanted.

I remember the last time someone – a Republican – told me “The South will rise again.” I told her, “Yeah, in hell.” She laughed and replied, “Probably,” and there you go, Jay: At least the Republican Party will have a permanent home, God help us!

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Jay I don’t know what you are taking about. For one thing the graph itself makes no reference to benefits and the NYT made clear at the end that benefits are excluded from the graphed data. And the first sentence of the NYT article that mentions wages says “[d]uring the same period, there never was a quarter when wage and salary income amounted to less than 45 percent of the economy.” “Wage and salary” means benefits are not included, as if your employer’s share of you health insurance isn’t compensation.

I also re-scanned your post and see no quote that includes the “AND benefits” part. Your message immediately above does say that, but again, there you are referring to a single year of data. Are you claiming that one year makes a trend? It can’t possibly. That trend may exist but the NYT data does not show it because benefits are excluded from that data entirely. You are claiming a trend in the absence of evidence AND claiming tobe basing your analysis on objective data at the same time. Both can’t be true.

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Thanks George. I think this just about makes mincemeat out of Jay’s analysis of flawed data, though it would be nice to see yor chart extend through 2010. One does note that as the wages total falls the benefits portions get larger. Compensation hasn;t been falling, it’s just that more of our compensation has shifted to other forms such as employer-provided heatlh insurance (thank you tax code).

In any case, the meme of “falling middle class wages” will no doubt survive because the left is desperate to convince Americans that it is true.

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