As share of GDP, profits soar and paychecks plummet

100507102501_obama_ap

NARRATIVE #1:

Barack Obama is a socialist, secular Marxist who hates business and wants to steal from the producers and give to the “takers.” Through overregulation, high taxes and “uncertainty,” he has made it all but impossible for American business to make a profit.

————————

NARRATIVE #2 (in graphic form) :

corpprof

Source: New York Times, U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis

As Floyd Norris notes in the New York Times:

“In the eight decades before the recent recession, there was never a period when as much as 9 percent of American gross domestic product went to companies in the form of after-tax profits. Now the figure is over 10 percent.

During the same period, there never was a quarter when wage and salary income amounted to less than 45 percent of the economy. Now the figure is below 44 percent.

For companies, these are boom times. For workers, the opposite is true.”

Now, which competing narrative should you accept? I suppose it’s like shopping for a new car or television set — it depends on what you want in a narrative. If you are less concerned with attributes such as accuracy and hard data, but more in emotional satisfaction and confirmation of pre-existing bias, if you like to believe that government taxation and regulation are killing the economy and you don’t require data to sustain that notion, you’d go with Narrative #1.

On the other hand, if you like your narratives to be data-driven and fact-based, you might find Narrative #2 more to your liking. In addition to the charts above, Narrative #2 is supported by the fact that total corporate taxes as a percentage of corporate profit are considerably lower than at any time in the past 50 years, and that personal taxes as a percentage of personal income are also much lower than the 50-year average.

Some words of warning, however:

Should you subscribe to Narrative #2, you have to confront the fact that the long-term trends documented in the charts above show no signs of abating. To the contrary, there is every reason to believe that wages and salaries will continue to fall as a proportion of economic output, and that corporate after-tax profits will continue to increase.

And should you subscribe to Narrative #1, there is again every reason to believe that wages and salaries will continue to fall as a proportion of economic output, and that corporate after-tax profits will continue to increase. But you will be blissfully unaware of such things.

– Jay Bookman

252 comments Add your comment

Occupy Congress (aka The Tea Party)

November 28th, 2011
12:01 pm

Obama is a corrupt shill for corporations. Fire him.

Good data jay.

Also, buy stocks. They’re good for your future. :)

Peadawg

November 28th, 2011
12:07 pm

What’s the point of this article? I don’t see anything about possible solutions to anything…just pointing out a fact.

Occupy Congress (aka The Tea Party)

November 28th, 2011
12:07 pm

Jay. Btw. Ever heard of a venn diagram?

Narrative 1 and 2 are not mutually exclusive.

barking frog

November 28th, 2011
12:11 pm

the reality of President Obama is not the delusion of the
right or the left. He is left centrist and has followed the
course mapped out by his predecessors and his promises.
His personal habits and family values could not be better
for a candidate. I would describe him as a brilliant pragmatic
politician and a fearless one.

Jay

November 28th, 2011
12:11 pm

Peadawg, defining the problem is the first and essential step in correcting it. And so far we have been unable to accomplish that feat.

If Narrative #1 is correct, a series of steps then flows from that fact.

If Narrative #2 is correct, a whole different set of steps then flows from that fact.

Mick

November 28th, 2011
12:11 pm

It’s pretty obvious that the haters need a theme to cover up their irrational prejudices…

all opinion, no solutions

November 28th, 2011
12:13 pm

Asking a serious question Jay, what is the solution? So corporations have cut costs and expenditures and still find a way to make a profit. What’s your solution, raise the corporation tax to 50, 60, 70, 80 percent? Raise taxes on Billionaires? All you are doing is giving gov’t and politicians more money to play with and buy votes with. There will still be income disparancies.

Filter

November 28th, 2011
12:13 pm

Check this out….
AJC HEADLINE ***Gas prices dropping; may stay down through 2011***

http://www.ajc.com/business/gas-prices-dropping-may-1243328.html

Now since the Right screamed their blame of the President when Gas Prices were high, does he now get to take the credit since they are falling?

getalife

November 28th, 2011
12:14 pm

Their goal is cheap labor and low taxes to compete in the global market.

I remember a meeting in my only corporate job when we were discussing off-shoring all jobs to China.

I asked how this would help the American worker?

They laughed and said buy stocks.

Soothsayer

November 28th, 2011
12:15 pm

Redneck Convert (R--and proud of it)

November 28th, 2011
12:15 pm

Well, I vote for this Narrative 1. This Obama is a Commie and hates business. What we need is a good Republican President that will put God back in the White House and get the Gays on the run again. Oh sure, the banks and Wall Street will go back to stealing from us again when that happens, but you expect a little loss in the harvest. And we need to get rid of this EPA. I want to go back to the good old days when I could pour my used motor oil in the creek and throw my old tires on somebody’s land without having the cops all over me.

Besides, all of us want Kayaker to go back to work and quit griping. That ain’t going to happen till we can get another housing bubble going and he can start cheating builders again.

Anyhow, seeing as how it’s beanie weenie time, that’s all I got to say. I hope everybody is working hard and not stealing from your boss by using his PC to check the online sales.

Don't Forget

November 28th, 2011
12:15 pm

The way I see it, there is a world wide labor market glut. This is increasing profits but reducing the purchasing power of consumers. The meager increase in the wealth of the Chinese worker is not enough to drive the world economy especially with their barriers to trade. Tax policy can’t fix this and we are just wasting time pretending that it can. We are on an unsustainable path.

Occupy Congress (aka The Tea Party)

November 28th, 2011
12:16 pm

The “solution” of course is to raise tax rates to 90% like the good ole liberal days…..

getalife

November 28th, 2011
12:17 pm

pea,

Baby steps.

Be patient.

They BOTH suck

November 28th, 2011
12:18 pm

But but but

what about trickle down?

barking frog

November 28th, 2011
12:18 pm

Soothsayer, compare GDP in china to GDP in the US…

Occupy Congress (aka The Tea Party)

November 28th, 2011
12:20 pm

Getalife 12:14

Nice make believe story. You would have more cred if u stopped with those BS stories

Butch Cassidy

November 28th, 2011
12:20 pm

Anyone else notice that whenever Jay puts up a chart, there are two things that are consistent:

1. Things begin to gradually diverge around 1980

2.Things seem to rapidily diverge around 2000.

The only time that the two graphs are even remotely in sync is around 2008 -2009 when everyone got slammmed across the board. However, since then, the trajectories seem to continue the upward/downward track, and it’s NEVER in favor on the wages side. Not pointing fingers, just curious as to how the party faithful account for this under 30 years of “trickle down” economic policy.

getalife

November 28th, 2011
12:20 pm

frog,

Do you know the percentage of our gdp made by our too big to fail banks?

Peadawg

November 28th, 2011
12:21 pm

“what about trickle down?” – Like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTpKOFte6JE – American Pie Stiffler Getting Pissed On

They BOTH suck

November 28th, 2011
12:21 pm

Occupy Congress

People and business actually paid 90%? Really

That was the effective rate?

Really

Soothsayer

November 28th, 2011
12:22 pm

frog, the Central Government sets the GDP in China since it is a command economy.

getalife

November 28th, 2011
12:23 pm

jm,

True story.

Butch Cassidy

November 28th, 2011
12:23 pm

getalife – “Do you know the percentage of our gdp made by our too big to fail banks?”

I believe that it’s somewhere around 77%.

carlosgvv

November 28th, 2011
12:24 pm

This story has been going on since the dawn of History. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. At some point, the poor won’t take it any more and revolt. This will happen is American eventually. What form it will take is anybody’s guess.

barking frog

November 28th, 2011
12:25 pm

getalife, i think 7-8% but I don’t remember where that came from
and i’m too lazy to look it up..

USinUK

November 28th, 2011
12:27 pm

carlos – 12:24 – you say that … the 1% hear this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYpYs9GBXwY

barking frog

November 28th, 2011
12:27 pm

soothsayer, so no china figures can be relied on?

JamVet

November 28th, 2011
12:27 pm

On the other hand, if you like your narratives to be data-driven and fact-based, you most definitely are not a Reagan/Gingrich/Bush Republican.

End corporate welfare. Now. End the handouts, giveaways, subsidies, “shelters” and other legalized tax dodges, sweetheart deals involving OUR assets and let them for the first time ever learn how to survive using capitalism.

No more Uncle Sugar propping up the banksters and Titans of Industry and picking the winners and losers. None of them.

Step up prosecutions for criminal negligence and malfeasance. Send CEOs and other executives to prison if convicted.

Expand shareholder rights.

END CORPORATE PERSONHOOD.

Publicly fund elections.

Tax derivative trades and other speculations heavily.

No more socialism for BIG business and capitalism for the rest of us.

Occupy Congress (aka The Tea Party)

November 28th, 2011
12:27 pm

Tbs
Marginal

getalife

November 28th, 2011
12:29 pm

6 banks control 66 % of our gdp.

666.

Evil doers.

Jm

November 28th, 2011
12:30 pm

Butch Cassidy 12:23

Oh dear. Lots of ignorance displayed in your post

Butch Cassidy

November 28th, 2011
12:30 pm

getalife – “6 banks control 66 % of our gdp”

Hey, I was close. :)

Jm

November 28th, 2011
12:31 pm

“6 banks control 66 % of our gdp.”

More ignorance

Butch Cassidy

November 28th, 2011
12:31 pm

Jm – “Oh dear. Lots of ignorance displayed in your post”

Wow, I was off by 10%. So that equates to “Lots” in your world? No wonder you think your getting ass raped by taxes.

nelsonh

November 28th, 2011
12:31 pm

The issue is are the every day worker in the U<S. living in a substandard way and the answer is an emphatic no. H/she does not. The every day worker has flat screen tv, late model car, plentiful food and good schools for his children. The Captains of industry are getting richer, they are smarter for one thing. They invest in the market where the workers invest only in their creature comforts.

It is time to get off the dime and give credit where it is due. There are no sweat shops, child labor or unheALTHY working conditions, the workers of the country haVE NOTHING TO COmplain about

I have said it all, times could not be better.

Stevie Ray

November 28th, 2011
12:31 pm

JAY,

This is predictable given the uncertainty surrounding government relationship with business combined with techological strides and the need to compete globally (see Jeffrey Immelt). I’m not sure what the point is here, if this is a real problem as opposed to a rally cry (aka Big ED) for more costly union labor. Perhaps many are finding the pay and benefits are much better with our state and federal governments. Do you have any data on the changes in salary and benefits of government employees?

That my be fun information to peruse…don’t you think?

Jm

November 28th, 2011
12:32 pm

Comparing assets to income production (GDP) is apples to oranges

Fact #1: liberals don’t know what they’re talking about

TaxPayer

November 28th, 2011
12:33 pm

Oh dear. Lots of ignorance displayed in your post

Do the words form a picture of jm. :lol:

getalife

November 28th, 2011
12:34 pm

jm,

Just use one name because Jay busted you again.

Do you have mental problems?

Jm

November 28th, 2011
12:34 pm

Butch you’re erring by 50%

Butch Cassidy

November 28th, 2011
12:34 pm

Here ya go Jm

When we contacted Sanders’ office, a spokesman provided testimony to a congressional oversight panel by Simon Johnson, a professor of entrepreneurship at the MIT Sloan School of
Management. “Our six largest bank holding companies currently have assets valued at just over 63 percent of GDP,” Johnson testified, citing figures for the fourth quarter of 2010. “This is up from around 55 percent of GDP before the crisis (e.g., 2006) and no more than 17 percent of GDP in 1995.”

Granny Godzilla

November 28th, 2011
12:34 pm

I feel sorry for the folks who don’t understand how
horrible conservative economic policy is.

They are doomed to keep suffering.

Soothsayer

November 28th, 2011
12:36 pm

“soothsayer, so no china figures can be relied on?”

Not that. The GDP numbers are real. It’s just that the Chinese government determines what the GDP will be. If they say 8%, then 8% it is.

The easiest way to reach these GDP numbers is by building apartments. That’s why China has over 65,000,000 vacant apartment high rises.

They are vacant because the workers shown in my previous chart cannot afford them.

I post a short video on this subject in a minute.

USinUK

November 28th, 2011
12:37 pm

“They are doomed to keep suffering.”

but, like most martyrs, they actually think their suffering will have a big payoff at the end

Jm

November 28th, 2011
12:37 pm

Butch

That is an irrelevant metric

That’s like saying if you have a million dollars in assets and you make $50,000, then you’re a menace because of you’re wealth

It’s nonsensical

Stevie Ray

November 28th, 2011
12:38 pm

Interesting dialogue on assets held by banks. Two questions I haven’t researched. First, how much of these assets are home loans not qualified to be surrendered to FM/FM or HUD (commercial)? Of that amount, what was the comparative value of these assets 5 years ago? Also, what is the comparative quality of these assets?

Also, do these asset numbers include our deposits or simply non-cash assets?

Jm

November 28th, 2011
12:39 pm

Botch. I mean butch.

Compare bank assets to national wealth. Or financial services income to GDP.

Don’t mix the ratios.

Recon 0311 2533

November 28th, 2011
12:40 pm

Of course GDP has been hovering around 2% or less and real unemployment around 16%. Those are the real conditions in serious need of repair. Jay, charts don’t provide repair solutions only political diversions intended to spin a failed presidency.

Butch Cassidy

November 28th, 2011
12:41 pm

I merely responded to the question asked by getalife.

“Sanders’ math is correct — in fact, the percentage he offers is actually a little low. And he’s careful to say only that the banks’ assets are only “equivalent” to 60 percent of the United States’ GDP, not that the banks own 60 percent of the United States. Sanders doesn’t note that big banks in other countries are far bigger, compared to their nations’ GDP, than the U.S. banks are. Still, on balance, we rate his statement True.

But hey, as long as the banks are growing and not lending, you should be happy as a clam.

Mary Elizabeth

November 28th, 2011
12:41 pm

barking frog 12:11

I agree with most of what you say regarding President’s Obama skill as a pragmatic Left/Centrist politician. Thanks for saying it. Let me, also, underscore that we did not fall into a Depression, and that we have slowly pulled away from the brink of that abyss.

Many Americans need to see the fallacy in the thinking of Narrative 1, above. But that would require a realignment of their self-identification (and rejecting much on FOX News) and that is not easy to come by, because their feelings are visceral, and not rational. Our nation seems to be headed toward an increasingly downward trend of greater and greater class distinctions. I hope people wake up soon. That is what is behind the Wall Street Protesters. They are, at least, awake to that compelling trend.

Soothsayer

November 28th, 2011
12:42 pm

Frog, watch this short (14 min) video and you’ll understand what I’m talking about.

I posted this over the weekend, but I think everyone would be enlightened to watch it. Especially to see how the average Chinese worker lives.

Cursor down and press play.

Stevie Ray

November 28th, 2011
12:43 pm

JAMVET,

Amen on the final 5 bullet points on your 12:27….Publicly funded elections and legislation clarifying (with prior SCourt approval) the end of Corporate Personhood are tops on my list….No more bailouts a given…Bravo

getalife

November 28th, 2011
12:44 pm

durbin told you the banks own congress and that will not change until we replace their control of our gdp.

Give me a green energy sector that controls the majority of our gdp and they will give away cars to come to work again.

godless heathen

November 28th, 2011
12:44 pm

“I feel sorry for the folks who don’t understand how
horrible conservative economic policy is.”

As opposed to what?

And what is President Obama doing to reverse the trend?

Jm

November 28th, 2011
12:45 pm

Obama is not left of center

He is weak and very left (though not out in lunatic territory like some of those here)

Brosephus

November 28th, 2011
12:46 pm

No matter what’s posted, you’ll still have some people aquariusing for the 1% in the hopes that they’ll be able to snatch a crumb or two off the table. Nobody’s mentioned the fact that wage and salary income as a percentage of GDP peaked in the late 60’s and early 70’s. This country has produced all kinds of technological advances in the past few decades, but the workers responsible for that have been getting sh*tted on in favor of profiteering. I guess we’ll end up like China someday as corporations are steadily pushing us. We’ll earn $2 a day and live in corporate owned hellholes while working 16 hours a day.

Butch Cassidy

November 28th, 2011
12:46 pm

Soothsayer – ” Especially to see how the average Chinese worker lives.”

BINGO! You’ve neatly shown how simply lowering taxes wil have zip, nada, no effect on returning jobs to our shores. That is unless Wal Mart can still make a profit selling jeans for $9.00 a pair while paying an American worker $80.00 a day to do the same job as Ming Lee who currently makes $9.00 a day. But then again, economic reality seems to pass most people by in favor of Obozo jokes and statements about “wealth envy”.

Jm

November 28th, 2011
12:47 pm

“Give me a green energy sector that controls the majority of our gdp and they will give away cars to come to work again.”

Lala land. I don’t like rabbit holes. Out

Stevie Ray

November 28th, 2011
12:48 pm

MARY LIZ,

I guess to sound dull, what is the problem with the greater class distinctions as mentioned? Also, what is the fix if truly needed? How much is due to corruption, technology gains, service vs manufacturing economy, global trade, et al? Are you suggesting the top 10% who already pay 73% of personal taxes are obligated to surrender assets or pay more of the freight because the economy is in the tank? Do we owe all college graduates guaranteed jobs and free education despite cyclical job markets?

getalife

November 28th, 2011
12:49 pm

Take your meds jm and comeback as occupy something.

Speaking of rabbit holes, where is Scout?

Strawman

November 28th, 2011
12:50 pm

“Now, which…narrative should you accept?”

Just out of curiosity, Jay, what percentage of the GDP should equal acceptable government spending levels? Do you even have an upper limit? In other words, what should be the size and role of government in America?

Jm

November 28th, 2011
12:50 pm

Now we know why dems are advocates of longer unemployment benefits

Apparently they know they will need them (Dodd and Frank)

:)

Brosephus

November 28th, 2011
12:50 pm

Jay, charts don’t provide repair solutions only political diversions intended to spin a failed presidency.

Make sure you warm up before you make a stretch like that. You’ll end up pulling both hamstrings and a groin all at the same time. A chart providing data over 50 years to spin one presidency? I would fail to see how someone would come to such a conclusion from that, but I guess if you put on your supery dupery conservative thinking cap, then yeah, it’s quite obvious that Obama has been screwing up wages in relation to GDP since he started walking. :roll:

Matti's Eyes

November 28th, 2011
12:51 pm

We’re fugged either way. Because I’m not willing to wh-o-re away my integrity for a few dollars, my cost of living will continue to increase, my pay will stay stagnant until it goes away, and I’ll be at the target age for “sorry we don’t hire people your age” — about the time there’s absolutely nothing left of my home equity or retirement accounts. That will likely coincide nicely with the death of my car, leaving me with no choice but to pitch a tent under a bridge somewhere, and pray for a tornado to suck me out from under it, with all my cans of tender vittles, and fling me to the ground like the broken, tattered carcass we will all become. (Unless I get lucky with a severe, sudden, myocardial infarction! One can only hope!)

Happy Monday! It’s GREAT to be back at work! Wooo-HOOOOO!

Brosephus

November 28th, 2011
12:51 pm

AmVet @ 12:27

You know I’m down 110% with the public funded election system. Too bad the SCOTUS isn’t.

Paul

November 28th, 2011
12:53 pm

If businesses say they’re data-driven, that they make decisions based on data, that they play on peoples’ emotions so they make emotional appeals to get them to buy (supported by data, of course) then how can anyone pick anything but narrative 2?

Maybe I missed it, but it seems an awful lot of bloggers who repeat narrative 1 day in and day out haven’t come on line and said “I support narrative 1″ on this thread.

Maybe they really can be embarrassed?

Granny Godzilla

November 28th, 2011
12:55 pm

godless heathen

“And what is President Obama doing to reverse the trend?”

Most importantly he’s not offering up failed supply side policies.

Fedup

November 28th, 2011
12:56 pm

Jay, the reality of business is the employment in a company depends on the amount of goods produced. Efficiency dictates the profit margin. In this business climate with high efficiency and higher tax breaks means the profit margin is high. The two graphs tells you the whole story why unemployment is higher and the salalries are lower because there is tremendous competition for each job.

Paul

November 28th, 2011
12:57 pm

“Should you subscribe to Narrative #2, you have to confront the fact that the long-term trends documented in the charts above show no signs of abating. To the contrary, there is every reason to believe that wages and salaries will continue to fall as a proportion of economic output, and that corporate after-tax profits will continue to increase.”

Granted, some will not see that as a problem. But for those of us who do, it lays out the situation pretty well. So now we ask: what’s happened in 50 years to contribute to this? I’ll submit at least part of it is corporate buying of laws that favor their interests over any others. Solution? Bring our tax treatment back to what it was a few decades ago.

Now wait for the cries of how that’s socialism.

In the 60s?

BWAHAHAHA -

Stevie Ray

November 28th, 2011
12:58 pm

GETALIFE

Not sure I understand your GREEN economy comment. Can you elaborate?

Strawman

November 28th, 2011
12:58 pm

“Let me, also, underscore that we did not fall into a Depression, and that we have slowly pulled away from the brink of that abyss.”

Not as yet. But we are not all that far from the ledge even now.

getalife

November 28th, 2011
12:58 pm

“myocardial infarction! One can only hope!”

Been there and done that.

No, I would not hope that on anybody but enjoyed your rant :)

Bro,

We are taking baby steps and now we see bloggers admitting their party is corrupt.

Strawman

November 28th, 2011
1:00 pm

“We are taking baby steps and now we see bloggers admitting their party is corrupt.”

You are, of course, speaking of cons AND libs here.

Welcome to the Occupation

November 28th, 2011
1:03 pm

Obama is a socialist, secular Marxist

Aren’t these attributes understood to be already part of the entity “Marxist”, at least understood in the classical sense?

This is what Freud called “overdetermination”, where descriptors and attributes are piled on willy nilly above and beyond what the object being described requires on the basis of its formal definition. Through it we know we are smack dab in the middle of ideological obfuscation and fantasy, namely that of the right wing hysteria which the figure concocted of Barack Obama exists to give body to.

Adam

November 28th, 2011
1:03 pm

Peadawg: What’s the point of this article? I don’t see anything about possible solutions to anything…just pointing out a fact.

I know Jay already said this, but it bears repeating for YOU ALL.

If you can’t agree on what the problem IS, then you will NEVER find a solution at all.

To be completely honest, I think the entire conservative mindset on things like the economy and climate change are designed entirely to avoid solving a problem simply by pretending the problem doesn’t exist for as long as you can get away with it.

Normal

November 28th, 2011
1:03 pm

getalife

November 28th, 2011
1:03 pm

Stevie,

We are getting our butts whooped on renewable energy by China and Europe.

Other countries know the bank’s control of their gdp needs to be replaced with something other than selling paper.

We are not there yet but are getting there.

Try reading about how our banks make so much money.

It gives me a headache.

Mary Elizabeth

November 28th, 2011
1:04 pm

Stevie Ray 12:48

No question is dull if sincerely asked. Thanks for asking it. I could address each of your various question/points, thereafter, but I am simply going to say that the problem of greater class distinctions is that its basic premise is inherently against all that this nation was designed to fulfill in this world.

We broke from Great Britain, which was replete with class distinctions, to forge a new nation, conceived with the ideas that “all are created equal” and that this nation was designed to be “of, for, and by the people” themselves. If we have a master class and a working to serve their needs, the working class will have no real equality, nor real control of their own destinies, and our nation will be redesigned to serve the interests of the elite few rather than the interests of – and the collective will of – the people, themselves.

Talking Head

November 28th, 2011
1:06 pm

To me, these graphs show that companies have gotten more efficient and eliminated waste. At the same time, holding back growth initiatives due to uncertainty with the current administration, inaction with congress, and the outcome with ObamaCare.

Schrodinger's cat

November 28th, 2011
1:07 pm

Eat more Kale

Wes

November 28th, 2011
1:10 pm

Jay,

You missed a whole lot of possibilities.

We might say that through globalization, wages are becoming more stagnant and won’t increase significantly until the world (not the country) is at full employment.

We might debate about whether the companies profits are wholly US based or if only a fraction of it is due to the multinational nature of companies today.

We might even discuss the role of government should play in supporting wages and maintaining a certain standard of living without resorting to rhetorical tactics.

What do you think?

Or we might

Adam

November 28th, 2011
1:10 pm

Talking Head: To me, these graphs show that companies have gotten more efficient and eliminated waste. At the same time, holding back growth initiatives due to uncertainty with the current administration, inaction with congress, and the outcome with ObamaCare.

Not Intended to be a Factual Statement.

Put Talking Head down for Narrative #1.

getalife

November 28th, 2011
1:11 pm

wes,

How does globalization help the American worker?

Paul

November 28th, 2011
1:11 pm

So no one will come right out and say “I support Narrative 1″?

Adam

November 28th, 2011
1:12 pm

Wes: Your arguments read like trying to construct a building without having a foundation to build on.

Granny Godzilla

November 28th, 2011
1:14 pm

Paul

Are we surprised?

Recon 0311 2533

November 28th, 2011
1:18 pm

Sooth,

An interesting film on China’s ghost cities. I remember ten years ago my wife and I took a tour from Hong Kong to Guangzhou. When we passed over the border into mainland China the first city was Shenzhen. It was filled with modern buildings, modern clean streets and no people. We only saw a few people riding bikes. We asked the tour guide why we didn’t see folks out on the streets. It was like a ghost town. The tour guide explained that the government only built it for show and hoping it would one day compete with Hong Kong. The drive of about 150 miles up to Guangzhou through the South China rural areas showed the real China where most of the people live in severe poverty.

Wes

November 28th, 2011
1:19 pm

getalife,

It provides cheaper products than they might otherwise be able to afford. Given that the vast majority of the population is employed and those that aren’t want to be able to stretch as far as they can. It’s an attractive feature for a lot of us.

I agree that it’s displacing a lot of people. I also know that on an individual basis few if any of us want to make the sacrifice for a few more jobs.

Paul

November 28th, 2011
1:20 pm

Granny

Nope. Even tho they mouth the words day after day, when confronted with data, they go silent.

Until the next thread.

Brosephus

November 28th, 2011
1:23 pm

Paul @ 1:11

Do you really expect someone to openly admit that???

Stevie Ray

November 28th, 2011
1:24 pm

GETALIFE,

The only issue I have with GREEN anything is that any success we can possibly have (I’m still a denier about the whole Climate hoax relative to if we have a problem and if so, is any of it man-made-made but let’s wait til Jay posts something at further date to fight over that) will not result in many jobs in the remote near term. We may be getting our asses kicked by China but the technolgy is does not pass the cost/benefit analysis. Also, see the list of stimulus GREEN investments to date as well as the cronyism involved in this as well as SMARTGRID relative to jobs in toto or those shipped overseas….I can’t afford to purchase any solar panels that will not give me payback in less than 3 years, I can’t afford a 85,000 Telsa, nor do I want the FED’s to be wired into my home monitoring and adjusting my usage. My suggestion is to keep investing in technology that gets us off the oil addiction but with appropriate expectations that in the near term, if we push too hard, this will become another competitive disadvantage for us…

getalife

November 28th, 2011
1:24 pm

Wes,

Yes, it gives us cheap crap to buy but does it create jobs like promised.

No, it loses millions of jobs but profits are up for the corporations. Scam.

If the EU fails and countries go back to nation building their own countries, we should do the same and compete in renewable energy.

Soothsayer

November 28th, 2011
1:25 pm

Talking Head

November 28th, 2011
1:26 pm

NARRATIVE #1:

Barack Obama is a socialist, secular Marxist who hates business and wants to steal from the producers and give to the “takers.” Through overregulation, high taxes and “uncertainty,” he has made it all but impossible for American business to make a profit.

I believe Obama has socialist beliefs, but he certaintly doesn’t hate business. I think he sees business as a way to distribute wealth from producers and takers. He wants higher taxes (for them to pay their ‘fair share’ whatever that means) and more regulation (to satisfy his constituency), but under is watch corporations are having no trouble at all in record profits.

Recon 0311 2533

November 28th, 2011
1:26 pm

“Make sure you warm up before you make a stretch like that. You’ll end up pulling both hamstrings and a groin all at the same time. A chart providing data over 50 years to spin one presidency? I would fail to see how someone would come to such a conclusion from that,”

Maybe you should look at through the reality of business economics instead of through the prism of a government job. You might better understand.

Soothsayer

November 28th, 2011
1:27 pm

Del, thanks for taking the time to watch. A great, informative short video. Posted @ 12:42

Strawman

November 28th, 2011
1:28 pm

“So no one will come right out and say “I support Narrative 1″?”

Do you know what a false dichotomy is?

St Simons - we're on Island time

November 28th, 2011
1:30 pm

Butch & get, you’re exactly right.

oh the flailing, the deflection – 3 words- de-lish-us

this is what the cons must do – or admit that the supply-side
trickle-on economics was a farce and didn’t work. And they’ll
never do that, ’cause then ALL their make-the-pie-higher
house of cards comes tumblin down with it. All they can
really do now is filibuster to the bitter end. And if they don’t
let us fix it, the kids generation will fix it. They get it.
Scam’s almost over. Go Dawgs

Stevie Ray

November 28th, 2011
1:31 pm

MARYLIZ,

Appreciate your thoughtful response and yes, I am sincere about my queries. I don’t disagree with your premise but the idea that the downtrodden class (not sure definition which could make a difference in debate) is working to enable the 1%. A vast majority of 1%’ers are wealthy by birth…see Kennedys, Gores, Bush’s, and most of the other 3 million or so as designated. They’ve had their money for generations. Many have used wealth to create jobs in heavy industry which has been all but lost due to our inability to balance our trade relationships, technology, among other things. No more Borders, steel manufacturing, textiles, we can’t plumb for oil unfortunately which could create a couple million jobs, plastics, toys, the list goes on and on. Complex in its simplicity…