For GOP, deficit reduction was never the goal in the first place
You could offer a lot of reasons for the apparent failure of the supercommittee to reach agreement on cutting the deficit before its deadline of midnight tonight.
However, the bottom line was the Bush tax cuts.
The Republicans insisted on making them permanent. The Democrats refused. And the Democrats had the better part of the argument. After all, everybody supposedly agreed that the supercommittee’s overwhelming priority — its entire reason for existence in the first place — was to cut the deficit and debt.
And if that’s the goal, you cannot responsibly insist on maintaining the Bush tax cuts in their entirety, given that such a step INCREASES the national debt by $2.5 trillion over the next 10 years. You can cut Medicare, cut Medicaid, cut student loans and cut Social Security, but if you do all those things AND make the tax cuts permanent, you have succeeded in making life tougher for a lot of people but you accomplished nothing toward reducing the deficit. In fact, you’ve made things worse than if you just sit back and do nothing.
UPDATE at 8:34:
Just so there’s no doubt, from The Hill:
“Mitt Romney said Sunday at a campaign stop in New Hampshire that he would not support any deal struck by the supercommittee that included new taxes, even if it meant trading limited tax increases now for the assurance that the Bush tax cuts would become permanent.
“I believe the right answer is cutting taxes, so I will not endorse any plan that raises revenues, raises taxes,” Romney said, according to Fox News….
“There will be a lot of give and take of proposals made and yet I will not support any proposal based upon increasing taxes or revenues. I will support proposals reducing spending,” Romney said.”
– Jay Bookman
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665 comments Add your comment
Granny Godzilla
November 21st, 2011
2:24 pm
josef
white gloves (with appropriate ensemble) are not restricted by season.
(see queen elizabeth)
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
November 21st, 2011
2:26 pm
I know very little about haute coiture, but I do love Stacy London.
Does that count?
Adam
November 21st, 2011
2:28 pm
Billybob basically says: The dems aren’t serious about reducing the deficit because they didn’t do it 100% OUR WAY
THAT is why it didn’t come up for a vote. Because it was a”my way or the highway” bill.
Filter
November 21st, 2011
2:28 pm
Billybob,
Come on, help a brother out. What is cut, cap and balance. I have read about it on the internet but felt like someone as supportive of it as you would really be able to bring it to life for me. Perhaps even change my mind.
So, share with me you insights on Cut Cap and Balance.
Billybob
November 21st, 2011
2:28 pm
perry forgets the dept of energy and it is cannon fodder for the lib media for over a week…..obama forgets which continent he is on and we hear crickets from the lib media……….perfect example of why lib media is easy to expose by people like me and perfect example of why independent and moderate dems are fleeing the radical dem party b/c of the hypocrisy that is so blatant…..you can thank me later…….so please keep talking bookman and your hit squad…….i love it!
Stevie Ray
November 21st, 2011
2:29 pm
My therapist advises me that I’m narcissitic and emotionally avoidant….translated, my head is in my butt and I don’t want to talk about it. I find it theraputic to banter back and forth and hope all find my comments suggest I’m getting better…
Of course, any of you who identify completely with left or right on all issues are not really worthy of debate…Ooops I think I just relapsed…
Good day and appreciate thoughtful debate.
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
November 21st, 2011
2:30 pm
“Do your own research”.
Republispeak for, “I have no clue.”
(Rush only mentioned cut, cap and curtsey today as the reason for the decline in western civilization; he didn’t go into details!)
Filter
November 21st, 2011
2:30 pm
Josef,
Larry Munson caused me to break them out.
Billybob
November 21st, 2011
2:32 pm
LIB 101 ALERT filter……do your own research……refute the point i made or i guess do some reading and find olut mor for yourself……my point stands and that is what you will not touch……easy
Billybob
November 21st, 2011
2:35 pm
Amvet,
that’s why your ilk is on the way out my friend…..will not waste my time on things we both already know about……..refute my point lib
Adam
November 21st, 2011
2:36 pm
Billybob throws out the “I WIN!” card that shows he has lost, except in his own mind….
No, Billybob, if you make a contention YOU have to back it up, otherwise it is assumed to be bunk.
Billybob
November 21st, 2011
2:38 pm
must leave and go create some money that you radical libs want to take from me and give to the people of your choosing……….b/c you care, right? for the power maybe? for the votes? guilt? fun!
AmVet - A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. ~Franklin D. Roosevelt
November 21st, 2011
2:39 pm
You know the first thing about cap, cut and trade, Billybob?
Puhleeze.
I’m surprised you got the spelling correct…
(P.S. It was idiotic for any number of reasons. One of which was because the gutless GOP chickenhawks did ZERO to address out of control, hyper-corrupted and GARGANTUAN DoD budget.)
Adam
November 21st, 2011
2:40 pm
Billybob: must leave and go create some money that you radical libs want to take from me and give to the people of your choosing
Out comes the “I’m leaving because I’m beaten and want to pretend that I have more important things to do” card! Or SMOKE BOMB! card for short.
Filter
November 21st, 2011
2:40 pm
No Billybob. That’s not it.
You see, like a magician exposing his tricks, I’m going to pull back the curtain for you.
I don’t believe you have the first clue what cut, cap and balance entails. I believe that you have heard about it somewhere, be it on the net, Hannity, Limbaugh, Boortz or some other part of the Sound Machine and thought, “well, that just wrong. Why don’t they want to vote on…..what was it….oh yeah….Cut Cap and Balance.” And like the good little brown nosed soldier you are you come on here spouting off like you are so well informed when in truth you would know Cut Cap and Balance if it bit you on the butt. And then big old mean librul Filter dares ask you to explain your insights into CCB and you deflect with the “do your own research” which accomplishes two things
1) It makes you feel as if you have got one up on me by deflecting my query back on me and
2) Makes it appear as if you’ve actually done research.
So, yes it was easy. You made it that way.
Billybob
November 21st, 2011
2:41 pm
never said i won anything adam….i did back it up adam in my intital post which has still not been commented on by any of you……trying to get me to regurgitate the bill does nothing when you can read it yourself…..don’t play your silly games…..bunk you
DawgDad
November 21st, 2011
2:42 pm
“And the Democrats had the better part of the argument. After all, everybody supposedly agreed that the supercommittee’s overwhelming priority — its entire reason for existence in the first place — was to cut the deficit and debt.”
Jay, Jay, Jay. Ugh.
First, I know a LOT of intelligent, taxpaying, working people who disagree with you, Tea Party types and many others. Second, the supercommittee does NOT “cut the deficit and debt”, Congress has to do this. The Supercommittee, by design, is a bi-partisan gimic to cover for doing nothing in a politically stalemated Congress. If Congress wasn’t stalemated there would be no Supercommittee. And, raising taxes right now is not going to cut the deficit, would likely make it grow as the impact of tax hikes further depresses the economy.
Right now, the BEST Congress can do for the American public is NOTHING, because anything they pass that Obama would sign would cause more harm (or waste) and move us in the WRONG direction.
Schrodinger's cat
November 21st, 2011
2:42 pm
If ya spot it…ya got it!
Adam
November 21st, 2011
2:43 pm
Billybob: You’re a laugh riot.
Adam
November 21st, 2011
2:44 pm
DawgDad: Right now, the BEST Congress can do for the American public is NOTHING
But… but…. the Tax Cuts! NOT MY TAX CUTS! NOOOOOOOOOO!
TruthBe
November 21st, 2011
2:45 pm
HDB, It would be pleasure to meet you and have a discusion on politics. Thank You for the invite.
Billybob
November 21st, 2011
2:45 pm
cut cap and balance is only bill passed to sove the problem, wasn’t even brought up by reid b/c of political reasons…..bookman blames repub’s and claims they don’t want to reduce deficit…..i expose libs again…..my work is done here…..waste of time at this point……enjoy libs
Billybob
November 21st, 2011
2:49 pm
Enter your comments here
TruthBe
November 21st, 2011
2:54 pm
No more Obama. The SuperCommittee was and is a scam from the very start. Isn’t that so Harrry Reid “I don’t have to do anything but disagree to get what I want” Revenue Increase (democrat code words: tax increases) and huge Military Funding Cuts. As the democrats wish the hell with our Military and their Families. Not mention National Security.
This whole thing is so dishonest on both sides.
Common Sense
November 21st, 2011
2:55 pm
It’s time for a new taxation model. 20% of your income or 200 hours of labor performed on behalf of Federal, State and Local governments.
If you income is too low to pay federal taxes, then the four hours of work performed per week will be your contribution.
The 20% income tax represents 400 hours of effort, so it’s progressive, which the liberals love so dearly.
Billybob
November 21st, 2011
2:57 pm
republicans don’t want to cut deficit…….where’s the democrat senate budget jay?….for the last 925+ days? you are in the tank for a party that is incapable of doing even the simplest of their constitutionally mandated activities…..and why, for political reasons so people can’t see HOW MUCH they are spending or where they are spending it………pathetic……another reason why 2012 will be painful for the radical dem party…..see how easy it is filter…….do you want me to explain the constitution to you now…….this is so fun…must go now
Adam
November 21st, 2011
3:00 pm
Billybob: I thought you were going to go be a PRODUCER or something. You know, because the arguing with the rest of us was somehow beneath you and you can say whatever you want, not back it up, and then throw a smoke bomb? The problem is the smoke has cleared and you’re still here. You’ll need another one. And your extra “I WIN!” cards aren’t going to help you either.
jays Brain
November 21st, 2011
3:01 pm
Can you ever stop being obama’s water boy?
Come on jay, Cox won’t stop the checks if you
think for yourself instead in being a demorat
PR man.
Your leftist idols have no wish to lower and spending either.
In fact you guys worship at the alter of economic fools
like that clownman writer for the NYT.
Filter
November 21st, 2011
3:06 pm
Billybob’s work is apparently to come on the blog, spout some talking points, play the “ilk” card, avoid answering any questions, and then in the words of Arthur Pendragon….”Run Away Run Away. ”
For him, that’s apparently a win. I suppose if your standards are really low you win every time.
Joseph
November 21st, 2011
3:26 pm
So I guess your admitting that Obama will preside over and congressional democrats will be responsible for the largest tax increase in American history… A tax increase that affects every person by the way!!! Not just the rich that you and your ilk so disingenuously mention on occasion…. So thanks democrats fro raising my taxes… I guess in your mind even the middle class don’t pay their fair share…..
Charles
November 21st, 2011
3:28 pm
Adam
Which is why the defenseless rich folks are shackled to this nation and told they can never leave. They are denied passports and talks with foreign nations about citizenship there. They are FORCED to live here. Being rich means you are DOOOMED to stay here under this huge oppressive tax code that is SO burdensome on the rich and they can NEVER LEAVE! NEVER! We will make SURE they stay so they can PAY!
++++++
You hit the nail on the head. It galls me that folks say how high our corporate taxes are, yet ignoring the fact that many corporations pay little or no taxes. At the same time they ship jobs overseas claiming the same crap. Then many of them or some of the ultra rich have off-shore bank accounts that further protects them from taxation.
I don’t necessarily have a problem with them utilizing the loopholes to their advantages. I have a problem with the rich and some follow-the-leader folks going on about people who are not as fortunate being a drain on society and getting freebies.
catlady
November 21st, 2011
3:30 pm
I hope when the peasants come out with the pitchforks, they aim first and foremost at those who continue to push down the little people, make the little people finance their high flying life styles. And, brother, more and more of us middle class folk are joining the ranks of the little people!
Big D
November 21st, 2011
3:33 pm
AmVet,
On Democrats…”useful idiots” Joe Stalin on how he sucker punched all the Dems in WWII.
While we’re quoting: “raising taxes while in a recession is like a man standing in a bucket trying to raise himself up by the handle…..W. Churchill.
A gov’t stimulus is like dipping water from one end of a swimming pool and pouring it in the other trying to raise the level….Me on Obama’s brilliant plan.
If you cannot tell by now that this administration is an abysmal failure you ARE an IDIOT.
williebkind
November 21st, 2011
3:43 pm
BillyBob and the progressive liberals, I do not want anything done until Obama is out and a new congress is in. A party that will not accept the bidding of the people only to accept the bidding of a few is a party that must be on the sidelines. To all the conservative office holders, do like Obama go golfing in Hawaii and do not do your jobs until we the voters have their say. Did you hear Obama’s response to the unconstitutional committee–keep working! Ha, does he know what work is…Liberals sure are funny!
USMC2841
November 21st, 2011
3:49 pm
How much of the deficit did the Dem’s reduce while they had a filibuster proof congress and the oval office? Oh, That’s right. They passed Obamascare, which is proven to cut medicare even more than Jay claims the Republicans will do. I think it is impossible for the government to take funds for A and give to B without graft. Any jobs or stimulus should be generated by the business sector and could be aided by removing the dark cloud mandated healthcare. Drop this kabuki theater and make each congressional subcommittee come up with a flat across the board cut. Before asking for more money show me you can properly spend what you already have. Solyndra, Lightsquare and their ilk make it difficult for me the believe the Dem’s have the integrity to handle any taxpayer’s money.
GM
November 21st, 2011
3:57 pm
Thanks President Obama for signing in to law business receive tax credits for our vets, you are more American then any of the idiots that call you socialist and names, true Americans will support you.
This President has done more for vets then Bush, Clinton put togather, your commitment to vets and family vaules makes you different from immorals values like Cain, Newt.
GT
November 21st, 2011
4:07 pm
Watch how these Republican candidates filter from their campaign the tax cuts as they get into the general election. O needs to hold them to their position once it gets in the open air and they want to run from their position. Demo will pick up a large chunk of the middle vote on this, starting already and will grow in size as their stubbornness continues.
NAGA
November 21st, 2011
4:12 pm
…and outside the world of continous reb/con bashing on the part of Jay & his lemmings:
(1) US Spies in the middle east – caught & will be/have been execeuted
(2) “Super” Committee – hugh failure; blame both parties not just the reps
(3) Military still in charge in Egypt – civies killed
(4) Syria continues to implode
(5) etc.
(6) etc
But hey these are all just nothing more than a side note in the AJC opinion piece.
Acer706
November 21st, 2011
4:14 pm
GT:
Tax-cuts aren’t the issue and shouldn’t be.
Gov’t Spending Is.
NAGA
November 21st, 2011
4:17 pm
GM – true Americans????
What is your liberal color shade defintiion of a true American???
Being born here? Check
Joining military at the age of 17? Check.
Serving in the military for 20+ years? Check
Having boots on the ground supporting GWOT? Check.
Earning a college education? Check
NAGA
November 21st, 2011
4:19 pm
Libs want to give the govt more money (i.e., raising taxes). Yes the govt has been such a wonderful steward with the money that it has received in the past – let’s just continue feeding this trough.
It is not revenue problem.
williebkind
November 21st, 2011
4:24 pm
NAGA
November 21st, 2011
4:17 pm
Earning a college education! How did you earn a college education. I understood it that you receive a college education. Oh bye the way the technical skills are out performing the Liberal Arts! Dont you just love it?
A dad
November 21st, 2011
4:25 pm
Here’s a question to the more liberal bloggers who rabidly repeat “higher taxes, higher taxes.” After serving my country for more than a decade, I got out (in part cause the downfall of the Soviet Union made my staying longer not make sense – no threat left att). So back I went to school, getting up at 4:30 to study for 2 hours before going to work for a full day followed by night classes full-time (try working 40-45 hours a week taking 16-18SH undergrad simultaneously) and studying till 12:30 in th am for 2 years straight. Despite the workload, I graduated #1 in my class and got accepted at good law school, where once again I worked essentially full-time while attending law school full-time (I was married with a family, had responsbilities and no, didn’t get any scholarships cause i’m a WASP, meanwhile a minority female who didn’t even grad cu laude got a full ride). No, I’m not in that “evil rich” category of those making 250k a year (maybe one day), but I’m doing ok. My question is, having worked my@ss off to get where I am today, would someone please tell me why I should pay more in taxes. What do I owe anyone?
Have at it….
John Galt
November 21st, 2011
4:37 pm
A Dad,
The answer I am afraid is rather simple. You should pay more because you have more. And you owe them because they have been kind enough NOT to confiscate it in the first place.
Those are the only moral justifications that they have.
You are the rightful owners of what you produce. No one else has a moral right to what is yours.
real john
November 21st, 2011
4:39 pm
Jay:
Two things; What have the Democrats proposed in terms of spending cuts?? And no, saying that winding down the wars in Iraq and Afhanhistan do not count. I’m talking, real, actual cuts…
Second…Jay, I would like to know your stance on Obama’s FICA tax cut for everyone this year. Now, to be fair, I will rail on a Republican if he jumps on that…see, if you hate the Bush/Obama tax cut, that means you must hate Obama’s tax cut too. The latest figure I saw said Obama’s tax cut will “cost” the federal government approximately $113 billion this year…So, I ask you again, ARE YOU AGAINST extending Obama’s tax cut again?? Because if you are not, then your argument against the Bush/Obama tax cuts doesn’t hold up…
What Jay and a lot of the Democrats don’t realize, is that a lot of moderate Republicans would support a tax increase, not just on the wealthy, but the middle class as well. However, until they show us they are serious about actually making real, substantial cuts, then we will continue to fight tax increases because all we are doing is flushing our money down the drain
Charles
November 21st, 2011
4:44 pm
Stevie Ray
Redlining in insurance and banking does occur. However, can you tell me how good a solution is generated by requiring banks to offer a mortgage to one who can’t verify income, steady employment, is a student, has food stamps as part of disclosed income etcetera? Ultimately, we all paid for this crap with the rescue with our tax dollars…borrowed as they may be to bail out those screwballs who used a flawed mechanism to make lemonade out of these subprime lemons.
+++++++
I have a friend who is an attorney. She makes about $80,000. About 5 years ago she applied for a loan. She was offered one of those “don’t ask don’t tell loans.” They didn’t care how much she made, they didn’t even ask her to verify it. She said that she could have easily told them $200,000 and that is what they would have written down. I can’t imagine that my one friend is the lone exception to your idea that only poor, unqualified people were offered this loans.
TruthBe
November 21st, 2011
4:44 pm
A dad, Thank you for your service and for your hard work. You Sir are a great example for the young people to follow. And you shouldn’t have to pay more taxes so that the government public servents can travel and go on more vacations. Not even including Michele Obama’s wasteful spending and vacations of our tax dollars. She isn’t even a elected offical.
Streetracer
November 21st, 2011
4:48 pm
A Dad:
Congratulations on your accomplishments. I have a feeling for what you did. After my time in service, I got a degree in Chemical Engineering. Had a stay-at-home wife, three kids and a mortgage, car payment, etc. Worked a lot of 60 hr weeks (and more than a few 84 hr weeks) to pay the bills.
John Galt:
I posted info above that indicates that the US has a more progressive tax system than either Germany or France (and according to the article, some 20 other countries although it didn’t name those countries). I am still waiting for someone to explain why making our tax system even more progressive is good.
Jay
November 21st, 2011
4:48 pm
Well, Dad, who pays for the courts and judges in which you presumably practice your trade? Who paid for the public schools you attended? Who paid for the GI benefits you presumably used to finance college? Did you attend a public university? Did you borrow money through the student loan program?
Who pays for the men and women in uniform overseas? Who pays for your parents’ Medicare and Social Security? Who pays for the prisons where we keep people who might otherwise rob you not just of your hard-earned wealth but your life as well? Who ensures that the food you buy in the grocery store doesn’t kill you? Who ensures the bank in which you deposit your paycheck? Who built the roads you travel everyday? Who pioneered the Internet technology that allows you to post here?
WAW
November 21st, 2011
4:51 pm
Vote republican = vote against yourself, your family, your mama and daddy but for the corporate bottom line (that’s all that matters) Every Republican member of Congress has signed THE Pledge
WAW
November 21st, 2011
4:57 pm
Dad: You got polio vaccine and was able bodied enough to join the military (the government) from there Jay covered it pretty well.
Liz
November 21st, 2011
5:28 pm
The Republican mantra has been to flatten the income tax rates, by eliminating the largest tax deduction the middle class uses: mortgage interest deduction for years. The public outcry was so bad this year Governor Deal backed away from his own tax reform proposal and try to blame it on bad numbers he got from analysts.
The National Democrats are not willing to fund the next big tax cut for the rich on the backs of the lower and middle class. End of story.
Streetracer
November 21st, 2011
5:30 pm
Jay:
I won’t try to answer all your questions to Dad, just a couple because most are ludicrious. First Social Security and Medicare were bsold as trust funds. That is one pays in now and redeems that payment in the future. Not quite how it worked out.
Second, yes I got GI bill benifits for my education, but I earned every cent of it (over and above service) for having to call worthless folks “SIR”. In my three years, I met three Officers that I considered “good”; that is on a par with construction forman I worked for as a kid.
TruthBe
November 21st, 2011
5:49 pm
WAW, Democrats are the most dishonest low lives in government and that speaks alot.
Jay, You owe one of your readers (aDad) an apology for your stupid questions. He simply was saying if people serve and work hard for a better life than they should be left along to enjoy the fruits of their labor. Oppuntity and Freedom are the true successes of America.
Straight Talk
November 21st, 2011
5:57 pm
Jay, as usual, your contention is that it is “all George Bush’s fault.” When are you and your fellow liberals going to acknowledge that our current president has amply demonstrated he is unable to lead…and nothing would change that even if George Bush never existed? Buck up, demonstrate some journalistic integrity and hold our current president acccountable for his policy and leadership failures that have either created or greatly accentuated the terrrible problems our country and it citizens now face.
TruthBe
November 21st, 2011
6:01 pm
Jay, Any journalistic integrity? Do you Jay???
Streetracer
November 21st, 2011
6:03 pm
TruthBe:
AMEN!! The point I wanted to make but you did it much more succinctly. Thanks.
TruthBe
November 21st, 2011
6:10 pm
streetracer, You’re welcome.
Liz
November 21st, 2011
6:19 pm
Real John,
Most middle class families spend nearly all they have let over on their kids. I personally know this (smile). I even spent money I should have been saving for retirement to help raise foster children. I think it would be short sighted to ask too much from the middle class, as it will likely hurt our countries future. I have told close friends, I wish we would get rid of deductions for casino gambling losses and replaced it for deduction for math and science tutoring cost for kids in middle school and high school.
A dad
November 21st, 2011
8:20 pm
Jay – I wasn’t eligible for the GI BIll, which is why I have over 120k in student loans. I am a true self-made man in all aspects of the word. Who paid for all of the items you mentioned? I have. I have no problem with paying my fair share, but simply to pay more becuase I make more as a result of my personal sacrifice, the nights I worked late missing putting my children to bed, and the goes on and on. Your logic is about as feeble an attempt at journalism as I think I’ve ever seen, but from your reply, I see I touched a nerve with you. You just have to do better, so much better, to justifiy your rant. If the Dems on the super committee used your logic, no wonder the whole thing went down the toilet.
Martin Williams
November 21st, 2011
8:22 pm
Jay, the GOP can kiss the White House GOODBYE for next eight years. The GOP folks are seriuosly and permanently becoming the big idiots in the United States. Obama can win a second/or third term if allowed by the constitution but it is not going to make any difference. These idiots signed a pledge not to raise/or get get rid of the Bush tax breaks because thet all millions and trust me I will do the same if I am a million, human nature. I am sure and truly believe that, at least 90% of Americans thought the supercommittee was biggest joke of the 21ST century. United States is going to open a new military base in Australia, and how are we going to pay for this……….No New Taxes, read my LIPS. Our politicians have some serious disease, The Idiotic Syndrome(T.I.S.)
A dad
November 21st, 2011
8:23 pm
Jay – I also noticed that you didn’t respond in any way to my question. You simply tried to shift and deflect the question to something else, which as any attorney worth their salt will tell you is s ure sign that the other individual’s argument doesn’t hold water. Sad effort for a columnist, but I guess it’s kind of what I’ve come to expect from the general media.
Jay, to put it more simply, you still didn’t explain why I should pay more. Don’t the 40-whatever percent who pay no taxes use the same sevices?
Adam
November 22nd, 2011
7:04 am
So A dad is just on here to hurl insults and assume that taxes are about “owing” something to other people. You want to know why you should pay more in taxes? Because you live here and love your country. If you think you shouldn’t pay more taxes, just cut a check to the government that is less than your yearly balance.
And your nonsense about being a self made man is just that – nonsense. No one is a self made man, especially if a good portion of their lives was due to military service. And congrats on 120k in student loans. I hope you enjoy paying that back to the government – with interest.
hryder
November 22nd, 2011
3:22 pm
Well, then do nothing! Vote all incumbents out of elected office.
hryder
November 22nd, 2011
3:22 pm
Well, then do nothing! Vote all incumbents out of elected office.