Toll roads a sign of political failure, cowardice
The popularity of tolls among transportation planners here in Georgia and across the country represents a failure of leadership among elected officials. If you dare to look a little deeper, it also reflects a lack of financial maturity among voters who put those officials into office.
The reason for the turn toward tolls is glaringly simple: transportation planners need revenue. The traditional source of transportation funding in this country, the federal motor fuels tax, stands at 18.4 cents a gallon and hasn’t been increased since 1993.
Because it hasn’t kept pace with inflation, the tax today has less than half the buying power it had 18 years ago. And that has serious consequences. According to the World Economic Forum, which studies economic competitiveness, our failure to invest has pushed the United States down to 23rd in the world in terms of infrastructure, and the long-term trends are not looking good.
China, for example, invests 9 percent of its GDP in water and transportation infrastructure; Europe invests 5 percent. We invest 2.4 percent. In a country as sprawling as the United States, with low population density and relatively long distances between cities, that’s grossly inadequate. In fact, in a global economy dependent on the efficient movement of goods and people, that’s a strategy for long-term decline.
That same anti-tax dynamic plays out on a smaller scale here in Georgia. We have an economy that is highly dependent on transportation, warehousing and tourism/hospitality. Yet to support that economy, we have one of the lowest gasoline taxes in the country and one of the lowest per capita rates of transportation investment.
That is not a sustainable situation. Yet rather than make the tough decision to raise the gasoline tax a few pennies at a time, our elected officials chose to punt the question to voters through the proposed regional transportation tax, with uncertain results.
That same lack of courage was also apparent last summer, when Gov. Nathan Deal intervened to stop a scheduled increase in the state gasoline tax of 1.6 cents a gallon. With gas prices fluctuating 10 cents a gallon or more on a seemingly weekly basis, and with the state transportation budget running dry, a tiny increase of a penny and a half a gallon was somehow deemed intolerable to the people of Georgia.
If you want to know why tolls are discussed more and more often, that mindset explains it. Rather than have legislators raise taxes by a small amount on everybody, which is politically dangerous, it’s safer to have unelected bureaucrats slap tolls on a much smaller part of the population. And if that doesn’t sound fair to you, it isn’t.
In the future, for example, if you live and drive in most of Georgia, you’ll continue to pay a state and federal gasoline tax. But if you live and drive in certain areas of the Atlanta metro area, you are likely to be paying those gasoline taxes plus a daily toll as well.
The truth is, it’s hard to beat the gasoline tax in terms of efficiency and fairness. Everybody who drives pays the tax, and the more you drive, the more you pay. And because the tax is paid at the gasoline or diesel pump, it is collected much more efficiently and at much less cost than are tolls.
To counter that argument, advocates of tolling claim that the emergence of electric vehicles will soon make the gasoline tax outdated, requiring alternative means of raising revenue. But the facts don’t bear that out. While electric vehicles have their place, they are not going to displace gasoline and diesel fuel anytime in the foreseeable future.
To the contrary, according to projections by the U.S. Energy Information Administration, our consumption of gasoline and diesel fuel for transportation will grow twice as fast over the next 20 years as it did the previous 20 years.
In the end, we face three alternatives: 1., a small, steady increase in state and federal fuel taxes until their buying power is restored; 2., a significant increase in the use of tolls and other mechanisms to raise revenue; or 3., a continued lack of investment in infrastructure, with a significant decline in economic competitiveness.
Alternative 1 may be the toughest politically. It is also the wisest.
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261 comments Add your comment
Jm
November 16th, 2011
7:45 am
Meh I only partially agree, but I don’t wholly disagree. That said tolls will be necessary as we transition away from gas. I though we discussed this already. Whatever.
Off topic but current
Bye, bye, occupy
You wanted to see civilization die
But good mayor Bloomberg saw your lie
Kicked you out
You bunch of louts
You left the park as a sty
Americans are happy to tell you: bye.
Toodles
Finn McCool
November 16th, 2011
7:55 am
Don’t mess with the lanes for the wealthy. They need to get to work and get home faster than you or me. They are busy people.
Finn McCool
November 16th, 2011
7:56 am
off topic:
Elizabeth Warren, future White House prospect
http://www.salon.com/2011/11/15/elizabeth_warren_future_white_house_prospect/
Oh yeah!
Doggone/GA
November 16th, 2011
7:57 am
“Americans are happy to tell you: bye”
I see…people who support them aren’t Americans. Thanks for making that so clear.
stands for decibels
November 16th, 2011
7:57 am
The traditional source of transportation funding in this country, the federal motor fuels tax, stands at 18.4 cents a gallon and hasn’t been increased since 1993.
Any decent American should hang his/her head in shame and ask why he/she hasn’t done more to change this status quo.
It’s beyond stupid, it’s beyond indecent; it’s an outrage, really.
Jm
November 16th, 2011
7:58 am
And are you going to apply a gas tax to natural gas if it starts being used significantly for transportation?
If so, how, since it is a dual use fuel?
The threat to the value of the gas tax isn’t just electric cars. It is much higher fuel efficiency standards. You can blame Obama in part for the necessity of tolls since he has massively increased CAFE standards.
A policy, btw, I support since he was also too gutless to raise federal gas taxes.
ByteMe
November 16th, 2011
8:00 am
If we were serious about fixing what’s wrong with this country, we’d start increasing the Federal gas tax by $0.01 per month for the next 10 years… until we find that we don’t need to keep adding more lanes to overcrowded highways because people will have adjusted their lifestyle so that they don’t need them.
And then we spend the money to put transit to all the places we want to go.
jt
November 16th, 2011
8:01 am
I’ve seen better poems written by a grade-school girl,
.
Makes me want to hurl.
Doggone/GA
November 16th, 2011
8:01 am
“Any decent American should hang his/her head in shame and ask why he/she hasn’t done more to change this status quo.”
Well, you see, what it really comes down to is the government and financial sectors making the assumption that rising prices is an indication of a better economy. They aren’t. If the tax had the same buying power it had now as it had when it was enacted, we wouldn’t NEED to raise it.
And raising it just adds to the rising cost of living, which will fool SOME people into thinking the economy is doing better.
TaxPayer
November 16th, 2011
8:02 am
I see poetry is not jm’s forte.
Th
November 16th, 2011
8:02 am
My first thought on hearing the very expensive plan to convert the I-85 HOV lanes to toll lanes was that it would cost much less to raise the gas tax a few pennies and let everyone use the lanes. Does anyone know how much net revenue is expected from the tolls and how much the gas tax would need to go up to raise the same?
I guess the HOV lane conversion was just another government make-work program. Wonder who the contractors paid off to get the bid.
Doggone/GA
November 16th, 2011
8:02 am
“If so, how, since it is a dual use fuel?”
And gasoline is a multi-use fuel. Why do you find it so hard to figure out how to tax other gases used for autos? You tax them at the pump, just as we do gasoline now.
ByteMe
November 16th, 2011
8:02 am
If so, how, since it is a dual use fuel?
Gasoline is also a multi-use fuel… and the tax is only collected at the point where it’s delivered to the user. Electricity is a multi-use fuel… and businesses pay a different rate than consumers.
Where there’s a political lack of will, there’s a way.
Hokey47
November 16th, 2011
8:03 am
Jm I disagree with your conclusion. Since the sources of revenue for transportation infrastructure are slowly drying up, we need to plan for other sources; but if we follow your logic, every road will become toll. Since our politicians lack the political courage to increase sales or income taxes, they have gone to the chicken’s choice, the Special Option Sales Tax. While this may pay for needed projects, it only pays for those projects and neglects the rest of the infrastructure. Slowly phase out the gas tax as consumption decreases and increase the general sales tax. If we make the 1% transportation tax permanent the DOT can do real long term planning.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 16th, 2011
8:03 am
Jm — “You can blame Obama in part for the necessity of tolls since he has massively increased CAFE standards.”
Have those increased standards kicked in yet? I thought they didn’t take effect for at least a couple of years yet.
“A policy, btw, I support since he was also too gutless to raise federal gas taxes.”
Wouldn’t it be a duty of *Congress* to raise those taxes?
ByteMe
November 16th, 2011
8:06 am
Wouldn’t it be a duty of *Congress* to raise those taxes?
Never let facts get in the way of a rant.
Communists Unite
November 16th, 2011
8:07 am
Jm – since you’re in a creative mood today (which, btw, is different than saying you are creative), did you happen to see Luckovich’s cartoon in re: OWS? It represents the proverbial hammer hitting the proverbial nail squarely on its head. At least OWS had the good sense to dirty a little park as opposed to ruining an entire country a la the bankster thieves they were protesting against. Tah.
stands for decibels
November 16th, 2011
8:07 am
If we were serious about fixing what’s wrong with this country, we’d start increasing the Federal gas tax by $0.01 per month for the next 10 years… until we find that we don’t need to keep adding more lanes to overcrowded highways because people will have adjusted their lifestyle so that they don’t need them.
And then we spend the money to put transit to all the places we want to go.
This.
stands for decibels
November 16th, 2011
8:08 am
Also, if we were serious about fixing what’s wrong with this country, we’d be happy to continue borrowing money at incredibly cheap rates of interest to put people to work and tell people like jm’s employers to f-ck right off.
ByteMe
November 16th, 2011
8:10 am
This.
And spend government money to develop flying cars. I wants me one of those.
Meet George Jetson…. His boy Elroy….
Mick
November 16th, 2011
8:11 am
What I really like about ows people is that they really get inside the heads of all our cons – good job, keep it it going. As for tolls, once they are in place, they never go down or disappear. Don’t even think about coming to orlando or miami without being tolled to death..
AmVet - 70% of OWS are employed compared to 56% of the Tea Party.
November 16th, 2011
8:13 am
Political failure and cowardice, Jay?
That is the very definition of the Republican Party. But their sheep don’t seem to mind.
Both in Washington and Atlanta…
Mudfoot
November 16th, 2011
8:15 am
“If we make the 1% transportation tax permanent the DOT can do real long term planning.”
While I agree with your overall statement Hokey, this last line made me laugh. Regional DOT doesn’t even synchronize traffic lights between cities and counties. Hell they time them within the cities to create as much traffic as possible. For a large metropolitan area, we sure are back-asswards in our “forward thinking”
TaxPayer
November 16th, 2011
8:15 am
“You can blame Obama in part for the necessity of tolls since he has massively increased CAFE standards.”
So jm is claiming thst improved fuel mileage is Obama’s FAULT! Okay. I guess Obama can live with that as well as I can.
Doggone/GA
November 16th, 2011
8:16 am
“As for tolls, once they are in place, they never go down or disappear. ”
That isn’t universally true. The same year that GA imposed a toll on the 400 extension, VA eliminated the tolls on I85
Mudfoot
November 16th, 2011
8:17 am
Aw man, leave jm alone. Can’t you see the OWS movement terrifies him and his?
ByteMe
November 16th, 2011
8:18 am
Regional DOT doesn’t even synchronize traffic lights between cities and counties
This is basically why I think I want to oppose T-SPLOST. It’s an alphabet soup of competing transportation agencies instead of one. Absorb all of them into one state-wide (I’ll even take region-wide if I have to) planning agency and then let’s talk about funding it properly. Absorb MARTA into that, by the way… having it separate from all other transportation agencies is one of its problems.
Gale
November 16th, 2011
8:18 am
How do we convince the general electorate that raising taxes is necessary? I keep hearing “political suicide”. Really. Are all voters so dumb that they cannot think in terms of greater good? We cannot spend ourselves into prosperity over the long term. That only works in small doses. My thought this morning is that a tax is a known value. It is something I can plan on. Politicians pandering to special interests adds to uncertainty. If they want to know why consumers are not spending, it is uncertainty.
Joe Hussein Mama
November 16th, 2011
8:20 am
TaxPayer — “So jm is claiming thst improved fuel mileage is Obama’s FAULT! Okay. I guess Obama can live with that as well as I can.”
I wonder if some sort of metered road usage tax, using data possibly gathered *by the car* and transmitted to your insurance agency or the state, would be what’s coming next.
It could be a flat fee tied to tiered usage levels or a per-mile rate that’s dependent on the type of vehicle.
JohnnyReb
November 16th, 2011
8:22 am
The 64K question is, does government, both state and federal spend every penny collected from motor fuels sales for transportation? Or, have they diverted the money for other purposes?
ByteMe
November 16th, 2011
8:23 am
How do we convince the general electorate that raising taxes is necessary?
Look at the vote for E-SPLOST and tell me that voters aren’t already convinced.
real john
November 16th, 2011
8:23 am
Ahh Jay’s daily rant about us greedy workers not paying enough taxes. Jay, have you ever come up with a solution that doesn’t involve us paying our “fair share.” Your articles are so transparent. Most of your article contradict themselves. So your mad about people having to pay money for the tolls, but, instead, you want us to pay more in gas taxes. Gotcha ya…
Of course, had Deal signed in the new gas tax, Jay, you would be ranting about how that was unfair to the poor. Jay, I can save you a lot of time and work.
Jays article for the next 12 months. Everything Republicans say or do is bad….Everything the Dems do is right…Thats sums up all of Jay’s articles for the next year…See I am trying to help
Jimmy62
November 16th, 2011
8:25 am
It’s gonna be funny when China falls apart and makes all your comparisons to how wonderful everything is in China with their 9% infrastructure spending and ability to get things done laughable. China has immense financial and demographic problems mixed up in a planned economy. Us free market folks have said it again and again, you can’t plan an economy and make it work for long, eventually the complexity will destroy you. China has an advantage in that they are also very authoritarian and control freaks, so they have been able to hide the rot inside far better than we ever could here. Within 15 years China’s problems will make ours look like a walk in the park (and we still have a long way to fall before our own pain is done).
Joe Hussein Mama
November 16th, 2011
8:26 am
real john — “Everything Republicans say or do is bad….Everything the Dems do is right…”
I don’t know a single lefty on here, myself included, who would agree with that statement.
barking frog
November 16th, 2011
8:27 am
a key word in the toll discussion is ‘user’ tax. If you don’t use
the road you don’t pay the tax, the more you use the road the
more tax you pay. the problem is getting the politicians to use
the tolls collected to pay for maintaining the roads they’re
collected on.
MrLiberty
November 16th, 2011
8:27 am
Government run roads are all the sign of failure we need to examine. Ever since government decided that it needed to be the sole owner and operator of roads and highways we have seen nothing but corruption, political payoffs, cost overruns, substandard constuction, massive safety issues, and poor quality maintenance. Plenty of folks have written dozens of books on how the entire system could be privatized for superior operation and maintenance. The best is Walter Block’s “The Privatization of Roads and Highways.” Not your typical republican style of privatization where government monopolies are just transfered to friends and cronies. A worthwhile read for anyone who has had it with the horrible roads and highways government builds and pretends to maintain.
Jm
November 16th, 2011
8:28 am
Byteme
U going to install 200 million separate gas meters for the NG purchased for cars versus heating the house?
Talk about inefficient.
Yep, toll all the roads highways if necessary.
Jay
November 16th, 2011
8:29 am
jimmy
I agree with you about China’s future. However, I’d also observe that communist dictatorial China is held up as an example far more often by the right than the left because of its lack of regulations, etc.
TaxPayer
November 16th, 2011
8:29 am
I see Perry wants Congress to work part time. So that would mean that Republicans would actually start doing something? I don’t believe it. They’d just say no.
Jm
November 16th, 2011
8:29 am
Jt
good
It was “wry” humor. Not poetry. But whatever.
Road Scholar
November 16th, 2011
8:30 am
What does raising Cafe standards have to the price of Gas/collection of taxes?
Jay the gas tax is not collected at the pump at the gas stations, it is collected at the distribution tank farms. It was found many years ago that collecting them at the pump was not efficient since some station owners were not paying what they collected! Plus their are less tank farms/suppliers to deal with versus the number of gas stations!
The goal is to go to a mileage tax factoring in the weight of your vehicle (damage/maintenance of the pavement). It could also be tuned to congestion levels…you pay more during heavy congestion (like the tolls) to try to spread out the peak usage. Right now there is a research project in Georgia tracking vehicles by their cell phones! No, the data is not available nor is it being “sold” to marketers.
I agree with your assessment that the gas tax (Federal and State) should be increased incrementally to meet our transportation needs versus the use of sales taxes until the system utilizing a mileage tax is created and tested; how that tax is paid is a concern…yearly, monthly, “at the pump”? Remember the deficient state gas tax is based on a set rate per gallon AND a sales tax.
What we should be outraged at is not the “extension” of the SR400 tolls, but where the money is being used by SRTA. They had a sham of a public meeting and consumer input to a list of projects already negotated with the county and city governments for implementation all the way up to Forsyth County. Why weren’t the needs closer to the toll road prioritised for implementation sooner than later…thus providing benefits to the most motorists that paid the toll?
TaxPayer
November 16th, 2011
8:30 am
I wonder if Jay can impose a toll on jm’s posts.
Doggone/GA
November 16th, 2011
8:30 am
“a key word in the toll discussion is ‘user’ tax. If you don’t use the road you don’t pay the tax”
EVERYONE “uses” the road system, even if they never set foot – or tire – on them. All of the things we use are delivered by road at some time in their transit history. Unless you grow your own food, make your own clothing from things you grow yourself, NEVER buy ANYTHING and never, ever, relie on any kind of government services whatsoever…you DO USE the roads.
Normal
November 16th, 2011
8:32 am
Is this that “American Exceptional-ism” I keep hearing about?
barking frog
November 16th, 2011
8:32 am
I fail to understand the desire of democrats on this blog to raise
their own taxes. It is not reflected in their leader President Obama who
has cut taxes more than GW Bush….
Doggone/GA
November 16th, 2011
8:32 am
“Government run roads are all the sign of failure we need to examine. Ever since government decided that it needed to be the sole owner and operator of roads and highways we have seen nothing but corruption, political payoffs, cost overruns, substandard constuction, massive safety issues, and poor quality maintenance”
And the reason we have “government roads” NOW is because in the past private toll roads were hotbeds of “corruption, political payoffs, cost overruns, substandard constuction, massive safety issues, and poor quality maintenance”
Brosephus
November 16th, 2011
8:32 am
Toll roads a sign of political failure, cowardice
You don’t need a toll road to point to a sign of political failure and/or cowardice. Just look at the decisions our elected jackasses put forth. They can’t come to a single decision on budgeting, but they take the time to affirm “In God We Trust” as the National Motto. Although “E Pluribus Unum” has long been the motto, and their vote was non binding, they figured they needed to affirm that anyway.
Meanwhile, bridges and roads continue to decay all around us. They will not fix themselves. We already know that businesses that need them to survive will not pay for their upkeep. Those businesses don’t even wanna pay for labor here, so we know they’re not gonna pay for infrastructure.
Keep electing jackasses and you get jackassery as a result….
Jm
November 16th, 2011
8:32 am
Joe mama 8:03
It would be. And Obama, as head of his party certainly could have pushed when D’s held everything. They didn’t. Blame Obama and a gutless democratic congress.
AmVet - 70% of OWS are employed compared to 56% of the Tea Party.
November 16th, 2011
8:33 am
More like rye humor.
And Herman “Never had a chance” Cain thinks everybody is out to steal his pimped out Cadillac.
Damn welfare kings…
JohnnyReb
November 16th, 2011
8:34 am
No one has answered my 8:22. It seems very important to know if all transportaiton taxes are being spent on transportaiton before debating if more taxes are needed. Why raise transportation taxes if the money is being diverted elsewhere?
barking frog
November 16th, 2011
8:34 am
well, doggone, I guess non-users will have to be billed for the existing
toll roads they haven’t used….
Darwin
November 16th, 2011
8:34 am
Jm loves his bank.
Doggone/GA
November 16th, 2011
8:35 am
“I guess non-users will have to be billed for the existing toll roads they haven’t used”
They already are. It’s included in the price of the goods they buy.
ByteMe
November 16th, 2011
8:37 am
U going to install 200 million separate gas meters for the NG purchased for cars versus heating the house?
You’re tweeting your comments now?
They already install separate water meters in some places for your sprinklers. The power company will install a device on your house to cut off certain appliances during the day if you want to save money. Gas stations will have NG pumps. Not sure if the NG lines to a house are big enough or have enough pressure to fill a car anyway.
When there’s a will for something, people will find a way. Politicians, not so much.
barking frog
November 16th, 2011
8:38 am
doggone, so then I guess raising corporate taxes, or gas taxes
will be included in the price of goods also..
Doggone/GA
November 16th, 2011
8:39 am
“doggone, so then I guess raising corporate taxes, or gas taxes will be included in the price of goods also”
Certainly, which is why a toll is unfair and unequal taxation.
Jm
November 16th, 2011
8:40 am
Communists unite
I just took a look at it (lukovich). Indeed funny and good that he points that out.
sheepdawg
November 16th, 2011
8:41 am
one of many precursors to outright class warfare as the gap widens in all areas of everyday life- health care, transportation, public safety, education, quality of life………
barking frog
November 16th, 2011
8:42 am
doggone, I don’t believe taxation is supposed to be fair and equal…at least
not in this country..
Joe Hussein Mama
November 16th, 2011
8:42 am
Doggone — “EVERYONE “uses” the road system, even if they never set foot – or tire – on them. All of the things we use are delivered by road at some time in their transit history. Unless you grow your own food, make your own clothing from things you grow yourself, NEVER buy ANYTHING and never, ever, relie on any kind of government services whatsoever…you DO USE the roads.”
But isn’t that folded into the transportation costs for the goods already? Don’t truckers and trucking companies already pay road use fees?
Joe Hussein Mama
November 16th, 2011
8:45 am
Jm — “It would be. And Obama, as head of his party certainly could have pushed when D’s held everything. They didn’t.”
And what, exactly, have Republicans done on this score since taking the House? If you’re going to blame the Democrats for not doing something about it, then don’t the Republicans deserve their fair measure of your obloquy as well?
“Blame Obama and a gutless democratic congress.”
Seems like Congress is gutless on that score no matter which party’s in charge.
Jm
November 16th, 2011
8:45 am
Amvet 8:33 bingo….. Re “rye”
Jay
November 16th, 2011
8:45 am
Johnny, all money raised by federal fuel taxes is spent on transportation.
The 7.5-cent motor fuel tax in Georgia — which hasn’t been raised since 1971, BTW — is by constitutional edict reserved for roads and bridges, which means it can’t even be used for transit. There is also a 4% sales tax on fuel, 3 pennies of which are reserved for transportation and 1 penny of which goes into the general fund.
Donovan
November 16th, 2011
8:47 am
Don’t you get tired of hearing how China and Europe do things better than America does things? Don’t you get tired of the idea of raising taxes to remedy everything in life? I guess it’s the Jay and Obama way. God help us!
I thought that all that stimulus money was a “shovel ready” remedy. Guess not, huh?
I keep having to remind myself that this blog site is a sounding board for liberal progressive thought.
Well, let’s go ahead and only tax those rich car owners.
Jm
November 16th, 2011
8:48 am
Byteme “Politicians, not so much”
Awww. Don’t show so little faith in government.
Joe M “Seems like Congress is gutless on that score no matter which party’s in charge”
Agreed
carlosgvv
November 16th, 2011
8:49 am
Jay, once again you attack the voters, this time for “a lack of financial maturity”. And, once again I have to remind you we can only vote for those who are on the ballot. And, if those on the ballot won’t raise taxes because it might lessen their chances of being elected, what can we do? If you know a way to persuade competent people to run for office, please advise. If not, please do not blame the victims for what the perpetrators fail to do.
Road Scholar
November 16th, 2011
8:49 am
“Regional DOT doesn’t even synchronize traffic lights between cities and counties” Yes they do..that is why each metro county and GDOT have Traffic Management Centers. They just don’t do it well. Remember under Sonny he had a project to take major road corridors and interconnect the signals with better technology…but local governments must maintain them! The regular progress report to the Gov has never been made available to the public!
“Are all voters so dumb that they cannot think in terms of greater good?” Do you really want that answered? Point: Instead of looking at our budgets, and seeing what we want to fund/not fund, and then tax ourselves accordingly, we are cutting funding, not knowing how much funding that we do need!
“The 64K question is, does government, both state and federal spend every penny collected from motor fuels sales for transportation?”
Yes, including research, planning, design, construction, and maintenance.
“It’s gonna be funny when China falls apart…” Jimmy, China is now building their “Interstate system” in eastern China…all at the same time…not a project or a few miles at a time! In addition, they are designing, building, and operating high speed train lines throughout China!
barking frog
November 16th, 2011
8:50 am
It is not a matter of taxes being spent on transportation,
but where it is being spent.. State highways where voters
live are getting a greater share of tax money than
interstate roads and bridges that more drivers use…
mm
November 16th, 2011
8:52 am
Jm,
You either need to stop taking the meds you’re on or start taking the meds you are supposed to.
The Occupy folks sure are consuming you. Most people could care less about them.
“It would be. And Obama, as head of his party certainly could have pushed when D’s held everything. They didn’t. Blame Obama and a gutless democratic congress.”
Pay no attention to the filibustering wingnuts behind the curtain.
Are righties chronic liars or are they just living in their own bizarro fantasy world? Maybe both.
Soothsayer
November 16th, 2011
8:53 am
Jay, the real problem is these socialists driving this little, itty-bitty socialist furin cars. They just ain’t payin’ their fair share of taxes like us SUV and monster pick ‘em up truck drivin’ good ‘Murcans is.
And, I wanna go on record right here and now, this has got to stop. WHY IT’S JUST PLUMB SOCIALISTIC! That’s what it is pure and simple.
Road Scholar
November 16th, 2011
8:53 am
Jay, that one cent sales tax has been “dedicated ” to transportation over the past years since the funding has been kept so low.
waterstim
November 16th, 2011
8:53 am
We are paying too much for entitlements and…..military. If you combine the defense budgets of every country in the world, the US defense budget is larger than that sum. If you want to avoid catatrophic economic failure at some point, you have to learn within your means, Jay, regardless what you said two days ago in your blog. The pain is unavoidable. Inflating involves more gradual pain, but in the end, systemic failure. It is a whole lot more preferable to get your economic house in order. The true is, there is no political will in this country to do that.
JohnnyReb
November 16th, 2011
8:53 am
Thanks Jay. I would be in favor ending the 1 cent diversion to the general fund before rasing fuel taxes. If 1 cent is not enough for transportaiton, at least you know exactly where you stand. Robbing Peter to Pay Paul is never a good practice.
Brosephus
November 16th, 2011
8:54 am
And, if those on the ballot won’t raise taxes because it might lessen their chances of being elected, what can we do?
Vote them out the very next election. Keep repeating that until the jackasses finally figure things out.
Jm
November 16th, 2011
8:55 am
Joe M
Though we are the voters who elect them and freak out about a gas tax
Blame voters. Politicians are gutless, but in many ways are the mirror image of the American voter.
barking frog
November 16th, 2011
8:56 am
A political analysis needs to be done to determine the point
where the good guy we elect turns into the bad guy in office.
Adam
November 16th, 2011
8:57 am
Jm: I’m waiting for Adam’s proof on the Bush tax cuts
Since you keep missing it, here.
Remember, I told you he ASKED for the cuts and pushed them. There’s your proof that I’m right.
Now either admit it, or do your usual and make up some reason I didn’t actually prove my case.
Jay
November 16th, 2011
8:57 am
JohnnyReb, Georgia Democrats have proposed that repeatedly. It hasn’t gotten them anywhere.
Road Scholar
November 16th, 2011
8:58 am
Barking: Yes the state is responsible for all interstates, US routes and state routes. The locals are responsible for most local roads (state funds many major arterials) and have in the past underfunded the local system. Many times the locals request a road be placed on the temporary state system to get funding from the state.
Jm
November 16th, 2011
8:59 am
Mm 8:52 you are a sad soul
I hope OWS sticks around actually. Their hypocrisy and stupidity is hilarious and makes liberals look like geniuses, so you should want them to stick around too.
barking frog
November 16th, 2011
9:00 am
If we make all Interstate highways toll roads much of the
traffic would be returned to non interstate roads where
it should be now.
TaxPayer
November 16th, 2011
9:01 am
The latest problem is all those poor people not paying their fair share by walking instead of driving a gas guzzler. We need a transportation tax based on the number of steps a person takes too in order to make sure that everyone pays their fair share. Then, there are those people, you know the ones, that don’t go anywhere. They don’t pay near enough transportation tax. It’s unfair I tell ya!
Dumb and Cowards, bad combo
November 16th, 2011
9:03 am
Let’s not forget Hillary’s brilliant idea during the 2008 campaign to discontinue federal gas taxes to ‘give consumers relief’ during rising gas price. Sheer idiocy. We should raise this tax (at state and fed level) as it is one of the best/straightest pay for use taxes. Also, we should include some amount per gallon (paid at the pump) for liability insurance, so that all people contribute to it, not just the percentage who are properly insured, who pay for the rest who are not (gosh, that sounds like some other insurance related problems that we have).
Doggone/GA
November 16th, 2011
9:03 am
“But isn’t that folded into the transportation costs for the goods already? Don’t truckers and trucking companies already pay road use fees?”
Yes, that’s the point. Even someone who NEVER drives, or is driven, is still paying for the roads. So to cal for only “users” to pay tolls is inherently unfair because we are ALL users.
MARTA Rida
November 16th, 2011
9:04 am
“Regional DOT doesn’t even synchronize traffic lights between cities and counties.”
The traffic light synchronization gets screwed up. The problem is DOT won’t come back and calibrate the lights. I have no problem with congestion pricing since it is a user-tax. It is basic supply and demand, when demand is the highest, rush-hour, the price of using the congested lanes will rise. We need more transit in the metro area and I agree that all the transit agencies need to be combined into a single entity. Currently they all compete against each other for riders.
SuxBeanU
November 16th, 2011
9:05 am
Once again Jay, you got it wrong. You are trying to build an argument by comparing apples to oranges. Using GDP as a measuring stick is unfair to the US because other countries do not have fuel taxes on a local (State) level. Every state levies a fuel tax and some levy additional fees on over the road trucks. In addition, the federal government levies a Heavy Vehicle Use Tax on all over the road trucks. There are also fees collected on new truck tire purchases that go to the same fund, but are supposed to be used to collect tire carcasses from the highways. Add these numbers to the federal gas tax and all of a sudden we don;t look so bad. The real problem is not what is collected, it’s how it’s being used. On the federal and state level, politicians have used these funds for pet projects (sidewalks and bike paths) that do not improve, or support the infrastructure of our highway system. On the other hand, politicians and bureaucrats love tolls because those funds don’t find their way into the general fund, but go directly to the state toll agencies, which they can use them as they see fit. Your argument that WE don’t pay enough, is just plain wrong. Like everything in government today, we don’t have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem!!
Jm
November 16th, 2011
9:06 am
Adam
Good job. You just proved Bush was more effective at getting what he wants than Obama.
And you proved that a President can influence an foster the creation of legislation. So you can now go tell your fellow libs to stop using the canard: “the president doesn’t pass legislation”
Which while technically true, is meaningless bunk
Off topic: APS is getting a NETQ grant for math science teachers. Great!
mm
November 16th, 2011
9:06 am
“Their hypocrisy and stupidity is hilarious and makes liberals look like geniuses”
Have you been to a tea party?
rightwingextreme
November 16th, 2011
9:08 am
but, but, but jay…..this is a consumption tax akin to 9-9-9…..you libs say that hurts the poor who also drive….but wait there’s more….they can’t be driving because they don’t have a photo id because the poor can’t get those according to you libs.
come on jay……you can do better!
Doggone/GA
November 16th, 2011
9:08 am
“I would be in favor ending the 1 cent diversion to the general fund before rasing fuel taxes”
But then you would be faced with a higher tax somewhere else to make up for the loss to the general fund. In for a penny, in for a pound.
midtownguy
November 16th, 2011
9:08 am
I am not doubting that Georgia has one of the lowest fuel taxes in the country but it doesn’t seem to be the lowest in the South. I frequently travel to North Alabama and gas is significantly less expensive there by 15 to 25 cents per gallon.
Mr. Snarky
November 16th, 2011
9:09 am
Jay, good analysis regarding the whole tolls vs. gas tax things. GA voters and politicians are incredibly short-sited. I’m just glad I don’t have to drive on 85…I would be royally pissed.
Adam
November 16th, 2011
9:09 am
Jm: Don’t worry, Occupy is definitely staying. See the following:
Why Occupy needs Michael Bloomberg
Tom
November 16th, 2011
9:10 am
There are a number things that can be done. First, look at Texas. I noticed numerous tolls in place. A lot more roads than Atlanta has.
Build the roads, then impose a toll. These “hot lanes” are a joke. We shouldn’t have to pay to use already existing lanes. That’s absurd.
Legislators have been cutting the budget for the past 2-3 years. Cut the justice system! Execute the inmates on death row. Quit feeding them 3 meals a day. Way too much $$$ goes into the justice system. Judges getting paid 6 figures just to appear in court and sit on a bench is way too much!
Do away with the state income tax and increase sales tax. (Another Texas thing).
This state will never progress…….
barking frog
November 16th, 2011
9:11 am
Taxpayer, if we don’t pay by the step, we could pay by weight to be
paid to doctors at required annual checkups…..
rightwingextreme
November 16th, 2011
9:13 am
barking frog
November 16th, 2011
8:32 am
I fail to understand the desire of democrats on this blog to raise
their own taxes. It is not reflected in their leader President Obama who
has cut taxes more than GW Bush….
You’re kidding right???? Can we say Obamacare and leave it at that.
Adam
November 16th, 2011
9:15 am
Jm: So now you’ve moved the goal post to … let me count them, 3 new arguments, only one of which you admit was off topic. Great.
Yes, I proved my cased that Bush pushed the legislation. I did not prove he wrote it (nor assert that). I also showed you Presidents can and do write legislation before by referencing the American Jobs Act.
Yeah, Bush, with 6 years of Republican control and no ridiculous filibuster lockstep sh*t from the opposing party, managed to get a lot of what he wanted. Bravo Bush for 6 years of deregulation and lower taxes that created millions upon millions of jobs and a booming economy which we now enjoy today….
Oh wait, you mean that DIDN’T happen? He got what he wanted and it made things WORSE? SAY IT AIN’T SO.
But you know what, stick to your guns and have the last (stupid) word on this if you want. I’m done. Bush pushed for those tax cuts TWICE, and got them. Thank you for admitting that I proved my case.
Mosell
November 16th, 2011
9:15 am
This article fails to mention the fact that vehicles are getting better gas mileage and also all the electric cars that are being pushed out. It is only a matter of time that the states, and California has already looked at this, will start requiring you to pay a “highway use tax” based on the miles you drive IN ADDITION to the fuel taxes you pay at the pump. Then you too can put a sticker on the back of your vehicle much like the sticker you see on the back of beverage delivery trucks stating “This vehicle paid $3,000 is fuel tax last year.”
It is much like the postal service. Last year it lost 5 billion. WHY??? because people found a less expensive way to send communications namely email.
barking frog
November 16th, 2011
9:16 am
right wingextreme, Obamacare(Romneycare) requires individuals to buy insurance
not pay taxes…
Aquagirl
November 16th, 2011
9:18 am
Our State legislature is afflicted with the same paralysis as Congress: stupid, easily manipulated voters will un-elect a politician for doing even the most basic task for which there is widespread support.
Chickenhearted Republicans under the gold dome batted Sunday sales around before trying to strangle them in a dark corner to cover their political behinds. Finally they punted to the voters under the guise of “local control.” Sunday sales passed by a wide margin in most places.
If our political system can’t even handle such a simple, relatively minor question, what are our chances with transportation?